Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - GGACP Classic: Brian Levant

Episode Date: September 15, 2022

GGACP celebrates the release of the new book "My Life and Toys" by revisiting this informative interview with the book's author: screenwriter, director, toy collector and pop culture historian Brian Levant ("The Flintstones," "Beethoven," "Jingle All the Way"). In this episode, Brian joins Gilbert and Frank to talk about staging pie fights, mail-order alligators, failed "Munsters" reboots and the comedic genius of Harvey Korman and Jonathan Winters. Also, Jack Warden forgets his lines, Chuck Jones finds the fountain of youth, Garry Marshall's memorial service brings down the house and Brian directs Gilbert in "Problem Child 2." PLUS: Buffalo Bob Smith! The legend of "Poochinski"! The wonderful world of Hanna-Barbera! Fonzie jumps the shark! The Lone Ranger rides again! And Brian remembers colleagues Phil Hartman and Charles Grodin! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Peloton has everything you need to help you get going. Get a head start on summer with Peloton and choose a flexible payment plan that works for you at onepeloton.ca slash financing. Once is never good enough for something so fantastic. Fantastic! So here's another Gilbert and Franks. Here's another Gilbert and Franks. Here's another Gilbert and Franks. Colossal classic. Hi, this is Gilbert Gottfried. This is Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast with my co-host, Frank Santopadre.

Our guest this week is a screenwriter, television writer, a producer, a recent author, and the director of dozens of popular feature films and television programs. He's served as a writer and producer for hit TV shows such as Happy Days, The Jeffersons, The Jack Warden Stara, The Bad News Bears, Mork & Mindy, and the new Leave It to Beaver. He's also directed feature films that have grossed well over a billion dollars at the box office. Including Beethoven, Snow Dogs, The Spy Next Door, Jingle All The Way, Leave It To Beaver, Are We There Yet? and the 1994 blockbuster The Flintstones. 1994 blockbuster The Flintstones, as well as its sequels The Flintstones in Viva Rock Vegas.

But even though he's worked with and collaborated with icons like Steven Spielberg, Ron Howard, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Jonathan Winters, Gary Marshall, Robin Williams, and Elizabeth Taylor, and met everyone from Captain Kangaroo to Chuck Jones to Groucho Marx. He still insists his greatest thrill in the business was directing me, Gilbert Gottfried, in a modern-day classic, Problem Child 2. But wait, there's more. He's also a showbiz and pop culture historian and one of the world's most passionate and knowledgeable collector of toys, games, and commercial products and other collectibles and memorabilia, with a personal collection numbering in the thousands. And he's even written a new book about it. It's part coffee table book, part memoir called My Life and Toys. Frank and I have been going through the book and believe me, it's an eyeful. going through the book, and believe me, it's an eyeful.

Please welcome to the show the director who taught me the proper way to take it in the face. Wait a minute. Go back to that. Oh, sorry. Take a pizza in the face. To get the job in Problem Child 2, he taught me how to take it in the face. And I've been doing it ever since then to get work. Oh, God. And the man who once spent an afternoon

with the Lone Ranger himself, the funny and talented Brian Levant. Well, hello. Thank you. That's quite an introduction. I feel like it's time to sign off. Yes, it doubles as an obituary. Welcome, Brian. You're finally here. Thank you. No, you know, for years, my friend Matt Bierman at Warner Brothers was telling me, you got to listen to the show. It's right up your alley.

You'd love it. You'd love it. You know Gilbert. I said, oh, I just don't listen to podcasts. And finally, I did. And I love the show. And you've had so many people that i know have worked with idolize want to know more about uh so i'm very grateful to be on well you're the perfect

i believe we worked together before yes yes problem child too you're I actually watched the film yesterday in preparation for today. And although he's only in two scenes, he dominates. worked for the orphanage, could be the principal of the Cayley Elementary School in Orlando, or Mortville, as we said, in Problem Child 2. And it was just, let's just do it. In the same movie, Amy Yazbeck is playing a completely different part, so why not? That's odd.

Well, I remember our two friends who wrote the picture. Scott and Larry. Scott and Larry. Scott and Larry. Kara Zuzki and Alexander, two of the most unique talents in the history of the industry. Scott's birthday today, by the way. Happy birthday, Scott. Happy birthday, Scott.

Well, Scott and Larry told me when they first started writing Problem Child 2, they wanted to have the entire cast back, all in different parts. Like they were going to have me as some crazed ice cream delivery guy, an ice cream truck driver. The principle worked well. The principle worked very well. And the most fun was the food fight shot in the bubble room in Orlando, where you describe, yes, you took a pizza in the face that I threw. I always throw my own pies so I don't get mad at people who miss. And I've gotten pretty good. And you took a pretty good one. And what you referred to is is i reminded you of the three

stooges where where they would take a beat and wipe their eyes with their first two fingers and and snap it down and then respond and it really it's kind of a laurel and hardy kind of thing problem child two was my first uh feature directing job my first feature job of any kind. It's very interesting how that all came about. I was doing a show that I hated and would soon be fired from the only time in my life I've ever been fired. And the night my father died, we were shooting a show. He was in Las Vegas and this happened very suddenly. and my assistant's husband worked in business affairs at Universal he said I know this is a bad time but but they're looking for a TV director to to do the Problem Child sequel the first one was a mess I I know how successful it was but it

was a messy shoot with a lot of a lot shoot with a lot of reshoots and things. And they already had a date before they had a script to release it at the beginning of June. Maybe even Memorial Day weekend. And so they had to back into that date and they wanted to make sure they'd have the film. And so I met with them and it was very fortuitous. John Ritter, I had done that year, two pilots for John's company, one of which was shot, which starred Amy Yazbeck, then his co-star Paramore and later wife and widow and Michael Oliver, who you, it's acknowledged there's a lot of trouble with the family uh on the first i didn't have

those problems um i had given his older brother his sag card in the in the last couple episodes of happy days oh in the 11th season uh michael's older brother was cast as the kid that fonzie adopted and had the series gone on he would have been a regular and i knew them i got along with them and jack warden as you mentioned was the star of the bad news bears series that we did for two And had the series gone on, he would have been a regular. And I knew them. I got along with them. Jack Warden, as you mentioned, was the star of the Bad News Bears series that we did for two 13-episode bursts on CBS. One of the great experiences of my life. And they wanted to shoot it in Orlando, where two years earlier, I'd opened, literally opened their studio, established protocols for the last season of Beaver when it was on TBS. And so down there, and the only one I inherited really was you.

And I didn't know what to expect. And you just, we said, we hit the slate and you just go. Okay, let's, all right, so that one was pretty good. Now what about going from that one to this one? And I'm watching it and there's some amazing improvs in there by you in your two scenes. Especially my favorite is sitting next to the busty girl in the Tunnel of Love boat.

Oh, yes. In the bubble room. I haven't forgotten. And you say, when we get home, i'll put on the zorro suit which i have no idea what that means but i just love it i figured i figured that wasn't scripted we we were talking off mic about the food fight and i was and i was on the phone with gilbert today brian trying to understand what that gelatinous substance was. Methyl cellulose. It wasn't something naturally found in pizza. Well, like I said, he taught me to take it in the face.

Exactly. That explains that gelatinous, sticky substance. Gilbert, it's a family show. Okay. Methyl cellulose certainly resembles the product that you're used to taking a facial with but but it's what they use slime for and the trouble was i said can't you put some food coloring and make it look like cheese and they tried but it all just comes out sticky and wet but no one seemed to mind uh and you know we used 500 gallons of it in the vomit scene which luckily for you you were not

involved right at the amusement 500 of methyl cellulose i use uh vegetable soup and fruit loops for color and texture uh and we make pretty good looking vomit um they the one part of the fight scene that the pie fight scene i minded was that it was on rubber pie crust was rubber and it was like getting hit in the face with a tire each time well i i i apologize i'm the one who always throws the pies whether they be rubber or or cream pies because i'd get too mad at people if they missed and i now by by the time i did problem charge two i had a lot of experience and knew rubber or cream pies because I'd get too mad at people if they missed. And now, by the time I did Problem Child 2, I had a lot of experience

and knew just how far you could extend your arm without getting your fingers in the camera. Is it hard to shoot a food fight scene? I guess it's a pie fight scene because it's pizza. What we did is we just kind of built it shot by shot, almost in order, so that we didn't do a master where everybody went crazy,

where we had 60 people throwing meatballs and spaghetti and pies and napkins, silver. It was ugly. But, you know, we waited until the end. And then we had three, two, one, everybody go, throwing throwing rolls and french bread it was a terrific few seconds of film but what i love about problem child too is it's nothing but big set pieces and and and that was you know the excuse to do the movie really is to do the kind of large-scale comic destruction that nobody else was doing. And a rapid. You were saying, and I, because I grew up on Three Stooges movies, the way

to receive the pie in the face, the reaction to a pie in the face. Is to milk it, is to milk it, as Oliver Hardy did, as Moe Howard did. And you take your two fingers on each hand and you slowly wipe them and flick it off

and take a moment to, all right, you did that. Now what am I going to do? Yes. And really, you know, it's a two-tar, so the 1927 Laurel and Hardy short where you do this to me, okay, then I'm going to do this to you. And it just keeps escalating.

It always got me in those movies like the guy would pour something down the other guy's shirt or crack an egg over his face and and it was like uh considered polite that you waited and you uh had someone take a a paintbrush and paint your face with it, and it was gentlemanly. You know, you waited, and then you had your turn to do something to him. I'd like to say that Peabody is provoking that fight. The family is minding its business, Gilbert.

And you stand up in the booth and pick a fight with the family. Right. For no good reason. Oh, and what I remember being with the hot-looking girl is that at one point, I think it's the kid throws an olive or a meatball. Meatball. He throws a meatball.

And the meatball lands right between her tits. Or surgically inflated. Yeah, and me, you know, going with the scene, decided, because at first she just reacts, and then I said, you know, it would be funny if I reached down between her breasts and pluck out. And I did that scene about, like, I think 50 times.

Daintily, daintily. Your fingers, like you were having English tea. It's waving you away the deeper you go. Tell us about Warden, Brian, because you had worked with him previously, as we said in the intro in the Bad News Bears show.

Yeah. And everything we've heard, we had Amy here last year, that the guy would tell stories that he was a raconteur. Oh, indeed. And he experienced everything. The best times with Jack were at the end of the day when the kids were doing their close-ups and he got a break and we'd go to his trailer and he'd pour a couple fingers of scotch

and tell great stories about New York in the 50s and talk politics. We were in there with, I think, a couple of other guys, and we were talking about politics. And somebody said, well, what's the difference between a Republican and a Democrat? Anyways, and Jack goes, about 50 grand a year. He was great. He was wonderful. And the kids frustrated him to no end.

Great. But at the last rep party, him and Jack Swain, this crusty old DP who shot the show, they were sitting there at the table and they're literally crying. Oh, the kids, the kids are going to miss the kids. And it was a great pleasure to be with him again on Problem Child 2 and Problem Child 3, which we wrote him a great scene. You know, Jack was a boxer early in his life. scene you know jack was a boxer early in his life and we wrote him a scene where he's he's he's literally sparring with his housekeeper his hispanic housekeeper and and he was hysterical doing it but you know we had to rehearse the moves you know for the camera and stuff by the time

by the time we actually got to shooting it was kind of spent he was 83 at the time. And he'd gone about six rounds by then. How great is he in the verdict? We were talking about Lumet before, before we turned on the mics. But, you know, sometimes Jack had trouble with his lines. And then I see him in these

Woody Allen movies, and it's a single take, and he's got four pages of dialogue, and there he was fine with me. I was like, line. I took it very seriously. I did. I wanted it to look like a live action cartoon.

There's nothing but primary colors. If you've seen Problem Child 2 or 3, we kept the same production designer and the same concept. But the relationship between the kid and and and ben was was definitely based in in love the kid found love and he didn't want to share this guy with any and anyone who was a threat he took care of him and and in doing so it set up all these huge set pieces uh and and which was a challenge comedically and creatively. And that's what I love about the film. I'm going to ask another.

Gilbert and I were talking about another famous cameo that comes at the climax of the film. And that's Buffalo Bob Smith, one of your childhood heroes. Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Howdy doody. previously referenced where I was being fired from was because we did an episode where the three sisters each pursued a forgotten dream. And the oldest one was to meet Buffalo Bob. And the network took such umbrage at this that we were going in the wrong demographic direction that I was relieved of my duties because obviously I wasn't steering the show in the right direction.

And so strangely enough, so now a month later, I'm starting Problem Child 2 and I suggest Buffalo Bob, we were shooting in Orlando. He lived in St. Petersburg then most of the year in Maine during the summers.

And they thought it was wonderful and subversive in the film department. So great. So he shows up in his big Eldorado Cadillac with Howdy Doody license plates. And the night before in the hotel, I sent him a bottle of champagne with the card that just read, Howdy Doody Buffalo Bob. And I'll never forget when I heard he'd arrived and was headed for makeup. I headed for the trailer. I opened the door, and, you know, he's facing the mirror, and he sees me in the reflection. I know who you are. And he gets out of the chair, and he envelops me in this hug.

I couldn't believe it. And, you know, I literally and I said this literally felt like I was five years old. And the couple of days I spent with him were joyous and fun. And I got to ask a lot of questions. The last one of the few remaining projects on my plate is something that we started 20 years ago over at Amblin, which is the backstage history of Howdy Doody with David Goodman, president of the Writers Guild, and producer David Kirshner. And we're still interested in pursuing that again. But I loved the show. It was a gateway drug to my career. Yeah, and the book.

Truly, truly. We should point out to people, too, that this meant so much to you to be hugged by this guy who was a childhood hero. Growing up in Chicago, you grew up on Pinky Lee and Soupy Sales and Captain Kangaroo and Howdy Doody and all of these people meant so much to you. And we'll plug the book throughout, but if people get the book, they will see the connection. Oh, it's obvious. You know, my work is so reflective of the shows that I watched as a kid and, you know, strangely enough, ended up working on Leave it to Beaver for God knows, like totally from the time we first had a meeting until the movie came out.

It's like 15 years that I was deeply involved with them and to do the Flintstones. And those are shows that I was in front of the TV watching their debut episodes. And two years later, to be woven into the fabric of the franchise was exhilarating and fun. And it just transported me. And everyone who worked on those shows felt the same way. They really did. You're a filmmaker who got to live out you know

live out childhood fantasies yeah by bringing the things that you loved as a kid to to life to another form of life talk about the flintstones too because your toy collection plays a role in you getting that gig in the first place yes as you mentioned in the book. So after Beethoven, which followed directly on the heels of Problem Child 2, I hadn't even finished the film, but I was not the original director of Beethoven, I should add. They had a director who, I won't name, but he never made a shot of the dog in a week and a half,

and they finally noticed it, and the reason was he had a psychology, he'd been mauled by a dog like two years before. He had 350 stitches in his arm. And they said, okay. And then it became, who can we get really cheap to replace? And there was a couple very nice scenes with the dog in Problem Child 2. So they brought me in.

And I met with Ivan. I met with Grodin. And, you know, I read the script on Wednesday. And Monday I was shooting. But after that, you know, there was what do you do next? And who knows? And I heard that they were looking for someone to do a rewrite on the Flintstones. And I called my agent and said, please throw my hat in the ring there. That would be fantastic. And they said, sorry, they've already got a writer, fantastic. And they said, sorry, they've already got a writer, but would you be interested in taking a meeting as a director? And for the next two weeks, I was nuts just thinking about it,

watching it, and thinking about how you would translate 2D to 3D, and how real to make it, and how cartoony, And where that line was. And I met with Stephen and Kathy Kennedy during their lunch break from shooting Jurassic Park on the back lot. And for the first ten minutes of my meeting, I talked like this. And they seemed to be used to people talking to them like that. They really did. And finally I said, pull yourself together. And I got around to showing them a polaroid that's how long ago this was of my then like 25 30 piece flintstone collection and then all of a sudden steven's eyes lit up

and and and that kind of enabled me to speak about what i would do and how I would approach it and how I've approached other similar things, like Beaver, and being, you know, so very specific about capturing what people loved about these franchises. And Frank and I were talking that Spielberg actually wanted, like, Jurassic Park-style dinosaurs. Wanted to go the Stan Winston route.

He wanted Stan Winston to do them, knowing that they would be different. I met with the late Stan Winston, who did the Terminator and all the Jurassic Park stuff. And he's brilliant. I did not detect much whimsy in there. And my kids were watching a lot of Henson material at the time. And I gravitated towards them and they made a terrific presentation financially and creatively. And working with the Henson Creature Shop in London and later with the Creature Shop in L shop in LA was an amazing experience. It just put you back in touch with what you had when you were a kid watching puppet shows. Suddenly you accepted

the reality and you were more concerned about how to make an impact with people without the ability to move 100% of your body and stuff. So there's a sense of responsibility and a pressure here because you're not only trying to please Spielberg, your employers, but as a kid who grew up on this stuff, you're now kind of a caretaker of this franchise in a way, and you have to please Bill and Joe. When do they come into the equation? When did you meet them? They had blessed it a long time ago the project started basically on what was the name always was that always right uh when uh walking to lunch one day steven's passing john

he was probably going to his trailer something john John was going to eat. And he looks at him and says, you should play Fred Flintstone. To which John told me years later, he thought to himself, yeah, and how do you like a knuckle sandwich? So Spielberg had John Goodman in his mind from the very beginning. With that in mind, he went and secured the rights. I see. with that in mind he went and secured the rights i see they had previously joel silver who gilbert always used to call me joel because he thought i looked like joel silver i should only have his money oh there was a there was a one with jim belushi in development right with jim and rick moranis rick moranis strangely enough and uh and rick was still interested. And we saw everybody in town for the female roles.

Rosie O'Donnell was my wife's idea. And although it's still controversial, I thought she was brilliant and funny and original and brought a lot to it. And Rick was not in favor when he first found out. He said, she should be playing anyone in this movie. It's Fred. But once he got on the set with her, he loved her and they were great together. And Halle Berry, you know,

I had no idea who to cast. We saw every woman in town, really. You know, Teresa Russell. I mean, Virginia Madsen. That's interesting. Yeah. So Sharon Stone turned down the chance to play sharon stone she she did indeed to do intersection good choice sharon you know she would have had another chapter for autobiography and you um that john john goodman uh didn't refuse to be in the sequel not refused not John Goodman refused to be in the sequel.

Not refused. Not refused. He did not refuse. After everybody in every airport he ever ventured into only said yabba-dabba-doo to him. He went to Stephen and I can just hear him say,

please don't make me do any more of these. Steven and I can just hear him say, please don't make me do any more of these. But we had been prepping. We had been prepping, you know, to do like Back to the Future, to do two and three back to back. And so that threw a wrench in that. And it took a while to regroup. And we still wanted to do something.

And we did Viva Rock Vegas, which was fun and imaginative. but just never packed the punch with the audience uh that the first one did but it does have ann margaret and margaret is not in it she sings in it that's what i mean and and it was great to to go to her house and meet her i'm from you know two towns over from where she grew up. And I met Roger Smith. And Roger Smith was the last member, other than Roscoe Carnes, of the cast of 77 Sunset Strip, who I had never met. So I finally knocked over those pins.

You can check that box. And if you remember, Anne Margaret used to be Anne Mulgrock. That's right. That's why we got her. Who else was in Viva Las Vegas and the Flintstones? Exactly. Actually, she had a cell in her house prominently displayed of her on the Flintstones.

And you had dealings with Hanna Barbera. Oh, we didn't get to Hanna Barbera. Hannibal Bear. Oh, we didn't get to Hannibal. So Bill and Joe, two of the most incredibly kind, decent people you have ever met in your life. So accomplished, so confident in their abilities and their place in society. They just carried that with them. And so they blessed the project a long time ago. And they came to visit while we were building.

We had four 18,000-square-foot sound stages taken over. We were building these 6,000 props, costumes, and vehicles, and the sets that would take place. You'd do the film completely different. It would all be CGI. But then we built everything. It was real. The sets all be CGI, but then we built everything. It was real. And, and that's a very impressive.

And I, and I picked them up in Barney's pencil mobile, uh, which was the first car that was finished from Amblin and drove them across the lot in that to the stage, uh, to the stages. And I could tell they expected to be disappointed. And they walked in and they saw the houses, the cars, the inside of the houses. They saw them making silverware and the products

in the refrigerator. And they just lit up and became animated, if you would. And they were delighted by everything. And I'll never forget, we showed them the Flintstones bathroom. And Bill Hanna says, there's no toilet paper. And I said to our prop man, please get a roll of birch bark and mount that there. And we came out into the sunlight after going through all the sets and and joe barbara shook his head and he said never in my life did i ever expect to see anything like this that's great yeah and and i said we were just getting beginning and they were in the film they loved it uh white curtain who did all the music for Hanna-Barbera

and is one of the true stars in the Hanna-Barbera universe. Yes, the great Hoyt Curtin. We shout him out on this show often. He was just so great and so enthusiastic. And the Jetsons theme. The last note is a note that doesn't exist, and that's what he wrote. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal podcast after this.

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responsibly. What? Go ahead, Gil. day the glenn libit live original please enjoy our products responsibly what uh go ahead you you you had you had dealings with groucho marx i i did i i i did and uh it's not it's not my favorite story well we should we should point out like you guys do yes okay yes it's in the book. Yes, it's in the book. So I'll tell you all about it. I loved Groucho. There was a moment when I was a junior in high school watching at the circus in the scene where Chico and Harpo are searching for something in the strongman's little compartment on the train.

And they're throwing feathers all over and all of a sudden they compartment on the train. And they're throwing feathers all over. And all of a sudden, you know, they turn on the fan and Harpo all of a sudden has got a belly and a beard of feathers. And he's doing Santa. And it was this moment of incredible imagination that really locked me so firmly into my career and what I wanted to do. And they were remained such a huge influence in my life. And I had the opportunity to see Groucho very, I think it was in the, I think it was maybe 1971 or so. He came and spoke at Northwestern University, a thousand people sitting on the gym floor and he was relaxed and wonderful and funny and hated Nixon, really hated Nixon. He was great about Nixon. That was the best part.

That's great. And you'd see him popping up on Dick Cavett in places and sometimes he could be hysterical and singing Lydia. And so when I moved to LA to get free records, I wrote reviews for this rock and roll rag, a real rag, some giveaway thing. And I'm telling the editor one day some Groucho stories. And he calls me up next week and said, I called his people and you want to come with them? I'm going to interview him. I said, would I? And so this is February 77.

Thank you for the correction. No problem. I'm not Frank. Frank's a great proofreader. I appreciate it. He's getting a free one. You're going to have to pay, Gilbert. All right.

I've earned my book. Yes, you have. And so we went up Hillcrest Drive there to Groucho's. Wallace Neff, a very influential architect in Los Angeles. Beautiful kind of 50s postmodern house, all white, white floors. And you walked in and there was a hat rack with all of those outrageous golf hats and berets that he'd taken to wearing instead of the ridiculous toupees that he'd worn previously. that he'd worn previously. And there on the wall was the John Decker painting of the Marx Brothers like as the Dutch masters.

He's also the guy, he's one of the guys who took John Barrymore out drinking after he died. Oh, yes. And painted the picture of W.C. Fields as Queen Victoria. Yes. Used to be in Chasen's. And we waited and waited. And finally, Aaron Fleming, his gatekeeper, who I didn't even recognize because the only time I'd ever seen her previously was in Woody Allen's Everything You Wanted to Know About Sex.

Right. And she was, you know, attractive, had long hair, and she had very short hair and was very gauntunt. I've read in other places she was doing a lot of drugs then. That might make sense. And we were ushered in to meet the great man. And it was the time in between seeing him at Northwestern and seeing him in his own living room had not been kind to him. He'd had a lot of medical issues, and the issues were winning, quite frankly, very slow and roomy-eyed.

And, you know, we tried to get it going, and he really wasn't interested. And he did get off one spectacularly good joke, though. My editor was asking him about, you know, getting started on brought in in the Coconuts and what a breakthrough that was for them. And, you know, he wasn't going very far. And I knew the story about his mother having broken her leg being carried into the theater for the opening. And so I say, so was your mother there?

And he looks at me, no, she was in jail. and so i say so was your mother there and he looks like no she was in jail and and and just in that moment you saw you saw the speed you saw a little oh yeah yeah and then he found out we weren't from rolling stone as she had told him to be the uh the day's entertainment and give his his uh still considerable ego a sponge bath, I think we could say. And we left, and I went home and put my head under the covers, literally. So she lied to him and said these kids are from Rolling Stone, maybe to get him out of bed or just make him feel— No, that was her job.

That was her job. Right, sure. To make sure that he answered the bell every day and that he felt needed and wanted and you know and part of the conversation you know and uh you know very shortly afterwards he went into the hospital from which he was in for months and really never emerged yeah i i didn't realize until i was doing research for this brian that they never told him about Gummo's death. No, I've read that in a couple places.

When he was in rapid decline. They didn't want to. No, you know, it was a sad end for somebody. The headlines of his final days, he didn't, you know, he deserved much better headlines than that. I still think it's an honor to have been thrown out of Groucho Marx's house. You know. You're like Trentino in Duck Soup. Years later, it finally dawned on me that you don't get a nickname like Groucho in 1913 for nothing.

Right. If he'd only said leave and never darkened my bath towels again. It would have been perfection. Just quickly, one more thing about Hanna-Barbera before we jump off, because Gilbert and I were talking. They told you, or it was your understanding, that the Flintstones was never a honeymooners knockoff, that they were trying to pay tribute to Laurel and Hardy?

That's what they insist. They insist. I think the evidence says otherwise. They were all about silent comedy. If you think about their work, it is primarily trying to get your next meal to survive, whether it's Yogi or Pixie and Dixie. Right. And all these characters and Tom and Jerry. And that really goes back to modern times and the little tramp where every scene is built around trying to feed. They were students of silent film.

And in the Flintstones, Harvey Korman shows up, but not as Kazoo or whatever that is. The Great Kazoo. In the first film, he was the voice of Fred's dictabird when he became an executive. Yep. And that's where I first met Harvey. We booked him for that. There was no other choice to be made because we wanted him very much to be part of it. And he comes into the – he didn't do the production or pre-record.

pre-record the henson puppeteer operated the the bird's mouth and and cadence which i tried to keep you know in the rhythm that i thought would be good and and then harvey comes in here well let's we'll be in and out here in two hours like he used to be doing gazoo i'm sure but it took four days to match perfectly to to the bird's beak And it was very frustrating to him at times. But in those days, it was just he and I and eating lunch together. And we got along so well. And I loved him. That's nice. And I loved his stories.

And he appeared in Jingle All the Way for me. That's right. And then the reading for Viva Rock Vegas, Alan Cumming, who played the great Gazoo in that film, and Mick Jagged, a double role, wasn't with us for the reading. So we invited Harvey to come in and read Gazoo, and that was a real treat. And then, I can't remember his name,

but I was asked to hire someone to play wilma's father i can't remember his name uh he was in a cassavetes film mickey and maw mickey and maw one of the last films seymour cassell seymour cassell and seymour cassell was not not hitting the beats. A little behind the beat. And so I boldly, because it was supposed to be a favor to a biggie, I asked to replace him with Harvey, and it was great to spend more time with him. That's nice. Yes, well, but then there was a cast and crew screening, and Harvey was there. And a couple days later, I just wanted to say hi and see how he liked it and stuff.

And so, Harvey, hey, so what did you think? And he goes, oh, someone just walked in. I got to go. I'll call you back. And he never did. Oh, he never called you back. He hit you with the old somebody just walked in. That's right.

That's right. Jonathan Winters, another hero, turns up in the Flintstones. And, you know, I was sacrificed on the altar of Mork and Mindy for two years. I was telling Gilbert. As the showrunner, you know, the fourth and final season where Jonathan was cast as Mork and Mindy, the year that they were engaged, married,

honeymoon.org, and then Robin laid a six-foot egg from which Jonathan Winters, their infant, was hatched. Remember, on Org, you age backwards. So the elder was like six. And Jonathan was their baby.

And it was great fun. And it was very difficult to get him to stay on book, to say the least. But my greatest regret of that whole season was in between scenes and camera changes and wardrobe changes and stuff, he and Robin would entertain the audience. And this would go on and on and on. And it was some of the most brilliant stuff you've ever seen. I'll bet. Bits evolved with them and were polished over the weeks. So by the end, they were steaming hot.

And I had microphones there. hot and and i had microphones there if we just said just keep rolling or give it a separate slate that whole year we would have had the best the largest selling double comedy album of all time i'm convinced of this and it's just a shame and it was great working with jonathan i really loved him and admired him and the thing about working with those guys is you, to write for them, you had to learn to think like them. And for somebody who, you know, I don't come from an improv background or anything, but to learn how to train your mind to be so much more open to different ideas and different ways of approaching humor. It was instructive and wonderful. And with Robin, just exhilarating sometimes did robin did robin's constant improvs and and and veering away from the script

did that test the patience of the other actors in uh the crew loved it because you always you know you go into double overtime to film a show the first scene like four or five pages was always an hour and a half then it would speed up some but you know Robin one of his gifts was the most amazing memory

in the world which is maybe how he unintentionally lifted so many jokes from people but he was never satisfied He intentionally lifted so many jokes from people. But he was never satisfied. If he got a laugh with something on Monday in the reading, he'd say, give me a different one there. Then on Tuesday, he'd get a laugh that wasn't enough.

I want a different one there. So all week you'd be trying to up every joke for him.iday he'd he'd he'd let loose with all four or five of them plus a couple more off the top of his head and and and the ability to just seize on these uh out of nowhere and at one point i remember in the fourth season bruce johnson the line producer turned to me and said that was a line from two years ago that he had killed. It just came out there. Wow. Go on.

But John was in the Flintstones. And sadly, I did probably one of his last, very last projects. He was in our live action Scooby-Doo film for the Cartoon Network, Curse of the Lake Monster. a film for the Cartoon Network, Curse of the Lake Monster. And the kids had burned down his barn, reprising a role that he had played in the cartoon. And the studio wanted the beginning to move faster. And I tried to save him, tried to save him. Couldn't figure it out.

And we cut him. And I felt terrible about it. And finally, when we left the dubbing stage, I said, ah, now I know how to save it. So it was too late. But I went up to his trailer that night. And it was a long night shoot. And I walk in. I go, hey, Johnny, how you doing?

How am I doing? How am I doing? I'm ready for the big dirt nap. That's how I'm doing. I feel like shit. Oh, God. I'm ready for the dirt nap. But it's like as soon as he stepped onto the set, you know, the performer, you know, shed his skin, this old man's skin. And finally his son had to drag him off the set like three hours later.

And he went on and on and on. And I was a little worried because we had a lot to do. And I couldn't really say, okay, let's move on while he was still cooking. Right, he was in his shining moment. He was, and he loved the attention, and he loved an audience, and that's why he used to stand outside of Paddy's and Toluca Lake every morning and just do business for people picking up the newspaper. Gilbert, did you interact with him, with Jonathan Winters?

Me? Yeah, did you cross paths with him? I never acted with him. I remember we were once doing the same show, but we didn't act together. But I remember sitting in the room, and Jonathan was holding court. And I have a habit of daydreaming, so he would always catch me and go hey Gilbert's zoning out again ah okay I guess we lost Gilbert again and and I I remembered Jonathan saying you know my father used to tell me all the time uh don't mess around with women and save your money.

And now I have no money, and Mr. Pencil doesn't work. No, we miss him. And you were planning on a Munsters, a whole new Munsters. Yes. They just announced that Rob Zombie, that well-known comic entrepreneur. Yeah, he's a regular Preston Sturgess. Yeah, is going to do the Munsters. No, I wanted to, after Jingle All the Way, I woke up one morning literally with the idea kind of fleshed out in my head for the Munsters Rise Again, which would have been the pilot, basically, that they had never done for

the Munsters, where they get driven out of Transylvania by, you know, a torch-waving mob, and they're forced to come to America, come to, what was the name of that town? Anyways, in New Jersey, on Mockingbird Lane in some old decrepit house, which was, I've said, abandoned because there was a ghost of a Civil War traitor and his valet in there who scared people off. And the Munsters were thrilled and the people and the ghost kept trying to get rid of them. And the Munsters assimilated. And that was their goal was to assimilate into America, to have jobs and careers and for Eddie to go to school. And Herman, as it turned out, had a lot of problems as a parent.

Grandpa was dating a black widow, Marilyn. And Lily had a beauty salon that was failing until the Goss discovered them. This all came to you in one night? Yeah, you know, a couple times things like that have just kind of jumped in, like fully formed. And so I put on the best dog and pony show of many that I've done for Stacey Snyder, the new head of production at Universal. I got the Monster Mobile. We had to cart it over.

That's great. From George Barris. I had a special effects guy come and make cobwebs and fog, ground fog in my office. I looped a highlight reel of the show, and I looped the soundtrack. I brought in my entire Munsters collection. I picked her up, drove her in the Munstermobile, and I pitched the whole story. Arnold Schwarzenegger. Oh, but

Lily. Vanessa Williams is Lily, right? And Dustin Hoffman is Grandpa. And she didn't get it. Well, you know, if you buy the Frankenstein

origin, right, Gilbert, in Transylvania, I guess that Schwarzenegger's accent would make sense. It would. Would work. In all those Frankenstein movies, it was always like, you know, one actor would have an American accent, the other would have a Cockney accent, the other would be German. Right. Donnie Dunnigan. Yes. Yeah, right.

Going, ha, pop. Yeah, some from Alabama. You know, it is a shame that the Adams family got their proper feature treatment and the Munsters never did. Well, maybe they'll get it now, now that no one remembers them. Right.

My favorite part is you having Dustin Hoffman in mind for Grandpa. Well, and, you know, at one point I was trying to seduce Steve Stolier, who I know has been on your show. Sure, we know Steve. To do his book about the age of Groucho. And I also thought Dustin Hoffman would be excellent as the 78-year-old Groucho, you know? Oh, Gilbert's got that part sewn up.

Right, Gil? Old Groucho? Gilbert does great old Groucho. Can we have a sample? He's taking a sip. Yes. Master Thespian. Edit that out.

Go ahead, Gil. You know, George Gershwin wrote this song. Everybody works but father. He sits around all day, feet in front of the fireplace, smoking his pipe of clay. Mother takes in the laundry, and so does sister. And everybody works in our house, except my old man. Very good. How can you consider Dustin Hoffman when you have this at your disposal?

Hey, it never was. You know, I love that you mentioned the theme song in the book, too. Now, you must know Frank Marshall. Of course. That's how Frank's father, Jack, wrote the Monster Sim song. We just found that out a couple of weeks ago. Oh, yeah. We feel so stupid for just realizing it.

He also played the harmonica on any harmonica theme song you could ever remember, too. Yeah. Yeah. I love some of your casting ideas, too. I love Hoffman. Brad Garrett at some point was going to be considered. Years after the feature went away, I was telling this tale of woe to the Altair brothers, who I did the Scooby movies with. And they said, well, let's take it to the division that's doing all those Beethoven movies.

And we did, and they loved it, and we're ready to roll. And then they said, oops, they just gave it to Bryan Singer to do whatever he did. Right, Mockingbird Lane. 13, Mockingbird Lane, which I'll never understand. And I love Jerry. He did a series of mine. But this one, that one was just not from the same orbit as the Munsters. No, not at all.

And so we lost it there. And then they came back five years later and said, let's do it. We said, okay, let's get Brad Garrett, who did an incredible, incredible imitation of Herman Munster. Yes, he does. And I thought, well, you get Henry Winkler to play Grandpa. I love where this is going. And it would have been very funny.

Gilbert, here's what I learned, too, in researching Brian, that they used to recycle Leave it to Beaver scripts as Munster stories. Oh, yeah. Oh, geez. Like I said, you know, Mosher and Connolly, who inherited the show, and I don't think it ever really meant a lot to them as opposed to some of the other things they did, which were much more personal. Beaver was a very personal show to to mosher and connelly and so was karen which was part of uh bristol court which was an anthology series on nbc in the uh late 50s uh so the monsters was dropped in there it dropped in

their lap yes it was uh ed haas and norm Liebman created the concept. Alan Burns and Chris Hayward. Who did Barney Miller and Rocky and Bowinkle wrote the pilot. And then they handed it off to Mosier and Connolly, who ran it for its 72-episode run. Yeah. And so they were just taking the old beaver stories yeah no beaver runs away eddie runs away beaver's grandfather grows hair on a bowling ball in the lab so does eddie's and um now you also hung out with the lone r Ranger. Oh, that's a good story.

Yes. I had an interaction with the Lone Ranger. I loved the Lone Ranger growing up. I far preferred him to Roy Rogers and Dale Evans, who had this weird show that they made for all those years for ABC, where they were talking on the phone and had phonographs and were riding horses everywhere. I never, when does this show take place? Whatever was convenient. They had a Jeep. They had a dog.

They were trying to hit every demographic. You know, and I never much liked Gene Autry. I thought he was soft. But I love the Lone Ranger. And you could just tell how laser focused this guy was. We should point out the Clayton Moore Lone Ranger, not the John Hart. The Clayton Moore Lone Ranger, and you could just tell how laser-focused this guy was. We should point out the Clayton Moore Lone Ranger, not the John Hart. The Clayton Moore Lone Ranger, he did hold out for a better contract, I think, in the third season. And they punished him by replacing him with John Hart.

And no one noticed the difference for a year, unfortunately. And no one noticed the difference for a year, unfortunately. But my friend Fred Fox Jr., whose father, you've mentioned his partner several times on the show, Seaman Jacobs. They wrote like 53 episodes of Dobie Gillis and Oh God with George Burns. Legendary writing team. Yeah, wonderful stuff. So Fred was on staff with Happy Days, and we wrote 13 or 14 shows together, produced the show together. Anyways, he wrote the Lone Ranger show and he loved the Lone Ranger. And a birthday was coming up and Clayton Moore's autobiography had come out.

And I called Rob Word, who used to run the Golden Boot Awards. And I said, is there any way you can get Clayton Moore to sign a book for someone? And he goes, yeah, I'm going up there in two weeks. Why don't you come with me? He lives right near you. Who knew that? And so two weeks passed by, and I was so excited, you know, walking up the walkway to his condo in Calabasas.

And he opened the door, and usually, you know, you say, even Arnold, you know, I saw, oh, Arnold's shorter than I thought, you know. You know, F I saw Arnold shorter than I thought Fonzie shorter than I thought Lone Ranger bigger than I could have imagined a bit like 6'5", broad shoulders a little sandpaper on the voice, he was in his 80s but it still had that resonant tenor and appropriately enough he suffered from horseshoe pattern baldness

but he regarded me And appropriately enough, he suffered from horseshoe pattern baldness. But, you know, he regarded me kind of like a cattle rustler. You know, I was imposing. And, you know, he signed all the stuff for the silent auction for Rob. And then I got a copy of the book for myself, too. And I hand it to him and he takes him and he, you know, he like literally makes a face like he smelled a bad fart, you know, and he dutifully signs them, you know, Clayton Moore, the Lone Ranger and dates it. And, and he hands it back to me with a,

like that. And I wasn't, certainly wasn't planning on it. And I said, very spontaneously, I said, you know, at the end of every episode, they always said, I never got to thank the Lone Ranger. Well, I'd just like to take this opportunity to thank you for all the hours that I spent with you growing up for the morality, for the understanding of racial equality, for promoting honesty and good and right in the law. And so thank you and thank you very much. And I offered him my hand and he had teared up. And he goes, thanks, Kimo Sabe. Which is more than you could ever ask for.

And like two minutes later, we're walking out the door, and I got this idiot, shit-eating smile on my face because a Lone Ranger called me Kimo Sabe. And we're walking down the walkway, and all of a sudden he pops his head out the door, and he holds his hand, and we go, wait, just one minute, will you? And we stop, and we look at each other, we shrug. And about 30 seconds later, he pops out of the door, and damned if he isn't holding between his index finger and his thumb a silver bullet.

And he looks at it, and he starts walking down the driveway, and he says, this is my last one. And I go, oh, my God, I said something nice to the Lone Ranger. He's going to give me his last silver bullet. And I, like, hold out my hand like that movie, The Oscar. And he says, I hold out my hand to take it. And he walks right by me and hands it to Rob Ward and says, maybe your son would like it. Oh, wow. Still, it's a beautiful story. And he and he called you first of all that's right

it's like you you could die and go to heaven i you know he almost did he really got screwed anyway by you know well you know just remember that uh you know, all the other Westerns, James Garner, Gene Barry, Steve McQueen, these guys went on to big things, you know, and no one else was left to open the supermarkets and do auto car dealer promotions, which, by the way, if you've ever seen, Jay Thomas has the best Lone Ranger story. Oh, we had him tell it here.

You did? Oh. Years ago. The other thing with Clayton Moore, when they decided to do the Clayton, the Lone Ranger movie, they legally put a ban on Clayton Moore dressing up as the Lone Ranger. No, no. He couldn't call himself the Lone Ranger and he couldn't wear the mask. The powder blue onesie and the hat were not trademarked. So he roamed the country in a pair of like Yoko Ono-ish oversized sunglasses. decided that you can't wear the mask. What are you going to do? And he said, then I won't wear

the mask. I'm not going to break the law. I'm the Lone Ranger. And he believed it. He believed it. A fiery horse with the speed of light, a cloud of dust, and a hearty hi-yo silver. The Lone Ranger. Hi-yo silver! Away! With his faithful Indian companion Tonto, the daring and resourceful masked rider of the plains, led the fight for law and order in the early west. Return with us now to those thrilling days of yesteryear.

The Lone Ranger rides again. You know, the Lone Ranger code was stricter than a kosher kitchen. Was it because of the movie, that terrible legend of the Lone Ranger code was stricter than a kosher kitchen. Was it because of the movie, that terrible legend of the Lone Ranger? They wanted to focus attention not on what they did 25 years ago, but what they had coming out. And they would have been better off sticking with Clayton. It's a beautiful story. Gilbert, I think, wants to call bullshit on Bill and Joe, by the way, not only on the Honeymooners, but also

their claim that Huckleberry Hound was an homage to Keaton. Yes! Oh, look at the hat! Stealing Huckleberry Hound's, stealing Andy Griffith's shtick. Yogi Bear sounded strangely like Art Carney. Hello there.

Hey, boo-boo. Hey, Ralphie. Yeah, I hear that. Here's a question from a listener, Brian. A listener? Jonathan Sloman in the UK. His question is Puchinski. And then he says, oh, sorry, you wanted questions.

Puchinski? Puchinski. And then he says, oh, sorry, you wanted questions. Puchinski? Puchinski, yes. This is a pilot the year that I did those pilots for John's company. I did five pilots that year. And one of them that I was involved in was Puchinski. David Kirshner would later be the executive producer of the Flintstones and ran Bill and Joe's film operation. And Lon Diamond, who I'd write the Beaver movie with later on, they had this story about a reincarnated,

a police, a hard-nosed police detective who was played, who the hell played? Peter Boyle. That's right, Peter Boyle played him. And he's murdered and he's reincarnated as a crime-solving animatronic bulldog. I think it's on YouTube. I think people can find it. I know that people can find it, and I'm going to find a way to eliminate it. It was, number one, I had won.

I'd been very successful as a director doing single camera stuff over at Universal. And here I was at Fox on this development. And they didn't want me to direct it. They wanted somebody who'd never shot one camera to direct it. Good move. And so David was very much into, you know, he did Chucky. And so David was very much into, you know, he did Chucky. And he was very much into animatronics as a way to create something that you couldn't.

This was in the days before CGI. And so ILM, Industrial Light and Magic, which I think Luke is still owned at that point, was hired to make the animatronic bulldog puppet and somewhere along the lines the blueprints got screwed up so that the legs were twice as long twice twice as long i mean they should have been a bulldog's leg is like four inches these were like 16 and so when he sat it was like he was resting his elbows on the ground uh and and and then you could only shoot him in a close-up, and it was a mess. Why do I remember a real dog from the actual pilot? Yes, but when he talked, when he did something, when he reacted to something, and he tilted his head and cocked his ear and narrowed his eyes, you know, that was the puppet.

And you were involved in a legendary showbiz moment when Fonzie on Happy Days jumped the shark. Oh, he was there. I was there. I started writing for Happy Days when I was 23 years old. When I finished working there, I was there. I started writing for Happy Days when I was 23 years old. When I finished working there, I was 31. And I didn't come in until the fourth season, for God's sakes. And when I did, they were pretty much on top of the world.

Laverne and Shirley, their spinoff was the number one show they you know they had survived uh a very difficult beginning to become you know one one of those once in a generation uh uh mega worldwide hits and everybody loved each other and the the finish line was far far away and it was a great time for the show and they had scored big in their third season doing um doing fonzie jumping garbage cans and then they had pinky tuscadero sure the three-parter and gary my mother always used to say you know when a show's in trouble when when when they go to hollywood uh and sure that here is my first season on happy days and And where do they start? They're going to Hollywood. And, you know, Henry had weird athletic skills.

He could dance the kazaka. Is that how you call that Russian thing where you're throwing your arms and your legs around? Very popular at bar mitzvahs. He could do that. He could fence beautifully. And he water skied. So Gary was very much into taking advantage of people's skills. So Gary was very much into taking advantage of people's skills. And so he came up with this thing that they're going there for a screen test for Paramount Pictures.

And Fonzie's going to jump a shark. And, you know, when I first heard this, when I first heard this, you know, I was the bottom guy on the totem pole. There are a lot of very much older, established people. And, you know, I said to Bob Brunner, you know, this is, I don't know about this. And he goes, very curt, that's what Gary wants. And so it was done. And I was actually there my first day on set as a writer. You know, every day when we were out on location during that shoot and not on stage 19,

a different writer was sent out to, you know, be there if they needed a line. And of course, the day they sent me out, they weren't doing anything on land. They were just in the boat doing all the coverage of Henry. just in the boat doing all the coverage of Henry. And I watched his stunt double jump about a 20-foot, you know, just a bunch of buoys, basically, in a stock-footed shark that was put in post. But Henry was really good on water skis. You know, it's very difficult in order to keep him dry. And he he's wearing his leather jacket and he's got his hair all slick and so he had to take off from land it's very tough on on a flat lake in wisconsin you know henry had to do it in the pacific and he did that

and his dismount which is on the film was even better he just glided right up to the shore and onto onto the sand and literally stepped out of of his skis and threw his hands up in the air. And that was very impressive. But, you know, here it is that people, well, this was the beginning of the end of Happy Days. It was and it wasn't because there were so many, many wonderful, wonderful shows that eclipsed what was the best of the early shows in many ways. And there were also seasons where loyalists weren't at the helm and it suffered there. there. And I left Happy Days in the middle of the sixth season because I sold a pilot,

Ron Levitt, who later created Married with Children, and I sold Brothers and Sisters. It debuted after the Super Bowl and then was the most painful 12 weeks of my life. And tell us about Jingle All the Way.

Well, Jingle is a story of redemption in my life. I have to say, you're very candid and you're very frank about the experience in the book. Well, it was, you know, I was suckered into it because I opened up the script and it said, and they're manufacturing toys. Now, for a guy who collects toys, all I could see from that point on was a shelf in my office with Turbo Man and the booster and everybody and all the ancillary stuff. And indeed, I do have that shelf today.

But maybe I should have been paying more attention to story development and character. It turns 25 this year. It does, and I'm sure I'll be doing a far more public apology in some theater in Hollywood. We should point out that

again, you're very honest in the book. You got a Razzie nomination. You say you went into director's jail. But having said that, it's a film that over time has found a new life and new fans. Yes. And people still send you things to sign.

Every day. Part of you wants to run away from it, I would imagine. And part of you now is, you know, you also have to embrace it because it's being re-evaluated. I think my feelings about the film are best embodied in the 24-inch Turbo Man that was the object of the parade scene and the conclusion of getting the kid the toy. And I always had envisioned, you know, getting a beautiful plexiglass stand for it and having it sit in my office and us sharing our life together. And for the next 20 years or so, I left it in a box in the garage. And finally, you know, I'm on campus a lot. I teach at two schools and I do a lot of speaking.

And the only thing anybody ever asked me to sign is their family's VHS copies of Jingle All the Way and they send me fan art. And there's incredible work that people do. And the affection, I got two new Jingle t-shirts this week, for God's sake. Wow. And I finally— The action figures are expensive.

I was looking them up. They're in the box about $750. Some of them are two and three grand. No, no. Those are copies. Oh, okay. Okay. There weren't that many.

But, you know, people love it, and I feel much better about it than I did. And, you know, I threw my heart and soul into it. Arnold was great. Martin Mull, you know, albums I had when I was 15. Robert Conrad. Robert Conrad. I was a huge Wild Wild West fan. Sinbad was a ball of energy and great fun.

Phil Hartman. My buddy Jim Belushi came in. Danny Woodburn, who was later being Viva Rock Vegas. That's a great cast. It remained a friend. Rita Wilson had been on two happy days. Sure. Phil Hartman we didn't mention.

I'm getting to Phil. I love Phil. I first met him. I'm getting to Phil. Phil was, I love Phil. I first met him, I approached him to do a reading. The Farrelly brothers and I and David Goodman again, and who else? A couple other people. We wrote for Imagine, a parody of Die Hard called Blow Hard. And we did a spectacular reading.

Tony Danza played the Bruce Will bruce willis role and uh lorraine newman did it and uh and phil hartman came in to play the villain euro disney and he was just euro disney euro disney he he he just crushed it and and he came in he they had sent him in to read for sinbad's part and he he read it, and, you know, you could see it wasn't him. And so I said, look, would you mind? There's another part here. Maybe you'd take a look at it. And he was kind of reluctant.

And, you know, Chris Columbus was there. And so I guess he figured, bad idea not to do it. And so he just picks up the scene, doesn't look it over. Nothing, just launches into it. And instantaneously, we knew that he was the right fit and he recognized it as well. And we had a great time with him. And what happened to him was so incredibly sad. It was his next to the last thing he ever did.

And we never met his wife until the premiere. But he used to speak of her. And those who few may not know is Phil was murdered by her and then she took her own life. But he always talked about her as trying to get her engaged in activities that he and the kids liked so that they would be together more. Like boating. He loved boats. I've never seen anybody who enjoyed his fame and wealth more than Phil did. You know, one day he drove a brand new Ferrari onto the middle of the set and, excuse me, can you tell me where a crew parking is?

And, you know, and it was improvising like that. The one where he says to Arnold, you can't bench press your way out of this one. Right off the top of his head. He was sensational. Everybody we talked to about him, everybody that worked with him and interacted with him just says wonderful things about him. He seems like he was a beloved guy. He deserved that. Terrible, terrible tragedy.

We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal podcast. But first, a word from our sponsor. Now, you worked with Elizabeth Taylor. Yes, yes. She was in the Flintstones. When we were first going through names, Kathy Kennedy said, when it came to Wilma's mother-in-law, what about Elizabeth Taylor?

And I said, and I said, I've got her at the top of my list, too. And I did. You know, but those are you know, that was the only one like the pie in the sky. But finally, we figured out how to get her to do it. And that was we we offered to make the premiere a benefit for her AIDS Foundation. And and that turned the key to have her do her first film in 18 years. And the first day of rehearsal, the studio put up a banner, Welcome Back, Elizabeth.

And everybody but me on the entire crew wore a tie out of respect. I just couldn't do that. And she said, you know, so what's with you, schlub? She looks like she's having the time of her life making that picture. I think she was very happy to be back on a stage. I've observed that people who grew up on sound stages

are sometimes more comfortable within studio walls than outside of them. And she was fawned over sufficiently. And the first day she showed up for rehearsals, she was wearing, you know, like a pair of black jeans and a little white t-shirt and a hat with a flower on it and no makeup, not a drop. And she was literally one of the most beautiful women I've ever seen in my life. She was in her like 63, 64 at the time. And she was just stunning. And her eyes were a color like you've never seen. And we had a lot of fun. And I did a terrible, terrible thing

one day. We're shooting the scene where she's been tied up by the villains and Pebbles and Bam Bam have been kidnapped. And so, you know, she's on the floor and our prop man, Russell Bobbitt, is tying her hands. And she looks up at him and says, you know, men have been trying to do this to me for decades. And so we're getting ready to shoot and I'm walking back to the camera and I get an idea and I turn around and go, hey, John. And so filled with the idea. I didn't

notice that I, her foot. And I stepped right on her barefoot full 200 pounds hard on her foot. And she screamed bloody murder. And, and I'm apologizing profusely and like feeling so terrible. And you know, they help her off the stage 20 minutes. We're sitting there. We don't know what's going to happen. She comes back in on crutches. She's all bandaged up. Oh, E.T., I'm so sorry. She hated to be called Liz, Elizabeth or E.T. And I feel so, I can't believe I did that.

I'm just wallowing in this. And people start laughing behind me. And she was pranking us. She was fine. See, George Clooney isn't the only one. Pranked by Elizabeth Taylor. Another honor. Almost as big an honor as being booted from Groucho's house.

Boy, I'm really scoring today. Here's one for you, Brian, from Rob Martinez. Does Brian still remember how to wake up Beauregard Burnside's on the Garfield Goose Show? True Chicago kids of our age will remember. Thanks for keeping the spirit of Frasier Thomas, Ray Rayner, and Bill Jackson alive. Well, that's very nice. Yes, to wake him up, he would say, hot dogs, hamburgers, spaghetti, and meatballs.

But this was stolen from Howdy Doody. Word for word, that was a phrase that they would use with Flub-a-Dub. The combination of seven different animals. A very creative puppet. I knew you would remember. I had no doubts. How could I forget?

Garfield Goose in Chicago was the longest running puppet show in history. 29 years it lasted. Larry Karaszewski. So I grew up, Larry Karaszewski was like, you know, like 15, 16 years ago, was still watching it. You know, you made that point in the book that you think Chicago filmmakers like Zemeckis and John Hughes and people like that were influenced, were similarly influenced by the kinds of television that you guys were all exposed to.

Well, you know, in Chicago, after school, let's face it, there's winter and there's road repair. Those are the only two seasons in Chicago. So you end up in your basement watching after school TV, you know, even when you didn't want to be. Right, right, right. And the combination of Looney Tunes and Three Stooges and Lassie and Leave it to Beaver, it was this wildness and this kind of grounded family softness that I think is kind of ingrained in all of the Chicago filmmakers' work. Paul Brickman, John Hughes, I mean, Zemeckis, I think we're all kind of of the same, I don't know what you call it, the same family of comedy. That's fascinating, actually.

And I remember, too, watching the Bowery Boys. See, I watched the Bowery Boys. They were on Saturday afternoons, all those monogram features that they did and stuff. The cheapies. And I always felt that they were second rate. that they did and stuff. The cheapies. And I always felt that they were second rate.

You know, when I finally saw Dead End, the movie that the Dead End kids premiered in with Humphrey Bogart, they were fantastic. And, you know, it was kind of like neorealism, you know, with these gutter kids, you know, swimming in the East River and shit. But I always felt it was so cheap and that these guys were just doing it for a paycheck. You say in the book you thought the Stooges were second rate, too.

I believe that people who do nothing but repeat the same routines again and again and again are guilty of a sin in comedy, which is not to expand and grow and try different things. Gilbert, don't take that personally. Yes. No, Gilbert is always, Gilbert will never go with the easy. Gilbert will always strive to do more. That's the truth.

That's what I admire about him. And before, you know, I follow you on Instagram, Gilbert, and I got to tell you, having known you now for like 30 years, not very well, but to see the pictures with your kids on Instagram, you look so goddamn happy. It's really, it's very heartwarming to see. It kind of humanizes you. It really does.

Let's not go that far, Brian. Yeah, if such a thing is possible. Did you see the documentary about Gilbert? I'm aware of it. I have not seen it. Oh, you should see it. Well, it does a fine job of humanizing him. And it's a tall order. Yes. So write that down.

Not the documentary is Gilbert. And where can I find this? Where documentaries are sold, of course. It's worth it. And yeah, it's fun. And it's a different side of him. One of the things that touched me about the book, and we really have to plug this book, and I sent Gilbert the galley or the PDF that you shared with us. And when we described

it as eye-popping or an eyeful in the introduction, we weren't kidding. I mean, these are, and the photographs are wonderful, by the way. Let's shout out Joe Pellegrini. Yes. And the art direction of Samuel Herndon, because it's a beautiful looking book. Thank you. Thank you. And I'm very proud to announce that here is an exclusive for your show that come early January 2022, My Life and Toys will be available, being published by Insight Editions. And hopefully in the next couple of months, people will have a chance to begin pre-ordering this. And if you're a collector, a person who loves film, loves comedy, who loves smiling figures.

Oh, everything is in there. I mean, I thought it was going to be toys. When I saw the book My Life in Toys, I thought, oh, he's a toy collector. postcards and signs and product mascots and soda bottles and cameras and typewriters and wristwatches and cereal boxes. I mean, you collect everything. Yes. That's why I'm not a very good collector. Most people collect one thing and they collect the best of it. And I just, I'm all over the place.

But I love too many things. And it's very visual and visceral. And I see something, and I have to have it. Yeah. It's beautiful. Do you own your own town to keep all these things in? No. Unlike a lot of people I know, my wife, you know, she's allowed me to fill our house stem to stern with all this stuff.

And it's a bright and fun place to live. That's an understanding spouse, Brian. Yes. No, I know. Most guys, you know, they got their Batmobiles. I can only show them at the office. What is the rough number? I mean, it's numbering in the hundreds of thousands of pieces.

Thousands and thousands of pieces. Yes. I have no idea. You know, I have much too much, and it's about time to start thinning things out a bit, I think. It's really a wonderful – I mean, I called my wife into the room just to see the typewriters. And I'm a cereal box guy. I'm wearing my Quisp t-shirt. This is an audio podcast, of course. But I'm wearing my Quisp t-shirt as a way to pay respect.

And I'm wearing a Happy Days. And he's wearing a Happy Days shirt. But, I mean, there's artwork. And I said there's the lenticular rings, which I used to collect. And the trading cards and the comic books. And then there's a Superman and a Batman. And it's also the history of, as I said, American advertising. And the trading cards and the comic books. And then there's a Superman and a Batman. And it's also the history of, as I said, American advertising.

Like I said, I collect a lot of different things. And I think the difference between this and most books, which, like collections, are very focused, is it gives you a very wide look at the things that, for the past hundred years, have fascinated us in our culture. You'd be the person to ask this, because I remember it very well as a kid. In the back of comic books, you could pay for a live monkey. Yes. Yes.

Yes. I'm sure it arrived dead. Yes. Yes. Brian didn't flinch. Yes, I heard that. I heard that the monkey... I think they're a campooch, or whatever those are called. Yes, yes. Capuchin. The monkey would arrive either dead

or dying. Yes. And alligators, too. Baby alligators. This was a wonderful world we grew up in, huh? Yeah. And in Miami they had, you know, at the gift shop at the airport, it was all these dead baby alligators and sunglasses and Hawaiian shirts lying on lounge chairs posed with cameras and baseball gloves. It was just horrible. It was just animal abuse. I have to read a little passage from the book, Brian. I found this very touching.

You got to meet the great Chuck Jones. Yes. And you were sitting across from him and you said there was a gleam in the man's eye that you could see that he seemed like a child. He did not seem to you. He had all that exuberance and all that youthful energy. And you go on to point out that people like him and Walter Lance and Hanna Barbera and Charles Schultz and Will Eisner and Karl Barks, that all of these people who chose this way to make a living managed to work forever and in a way find a fountain of youth. managed to work forever and in a way find a fountain of youth. You make the statement in the book that humor, you believe humor may be one of the true fountains of youth. I thought that was touching.

I believe that these people spent their lives doing little more than trying to make children laugh. Yeah. laugh. And were amazingly successful. And they built amazingly successful lives and families from that. And I always look at them as an example of people who never lost the innocence and the joy or their sense of purpose. I mean, Chuck Jones, to have dinner with Chuck Jones was an incredible experience. Because you don't realize just how wise people can be and how far flung their interests and knowledge can be. and just kind of shaping them like clay into the frenetic comedy that touched on opera and classical music and outer space, sci-fi and westerns. And his taste ran the gamut, and he taught us a lot about how to enjoy life. And the light never dimmed in him. I mean, when I met him, he was, I don't know, 86, 87. And you could tell he was looking forward to the next day.

That's great. You say, too, these individuals found lifetimes of joy pursuing the ability to think like a child. Yeah. It sets profound. You know, comedians seem to live a long time, too. I mean, look at how long Burl lived and George Burns and Bob Hope and comedy writers. Bob Hope was 103, for God's sakes. Comedy writers live forever, too. Well, just the ones on your show of shows.

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. Yeah. You know. Go ahead. But I think, you know, these are people who spend their lives sitting in rooms eating deli food and trying to make each other laugh. And I think that's a very worthwhile way to spend your life. And rather than being aggravated and with people, and you're kind of insulated. You know, the writer's room is a unique institution and place. And that's why I teach today. We do writer's rooms and write sitcoms and try and kind of spread the kind of merging of structure and improvisational thinking that go into creating these things. And sometimes the joy really comes out.

Good for you in paying it back, by the way. And, you know, of course, the book opens with you talking about how growing up watching Benny and Burns and Alan and all these people, you didn't realize that you were getting a comedy class you didn't realize you were being taught structure and character did anybody nobody no no certainly not it it always I I always think back and thinking that the greatest film school in the country uh was your living room. Yeah. You'd turn on the TV, there'd be movies from like the 20s, and then followed by variety shows, and then a movie from all eras, all different types of things you were exposed to. Well, because the station, let's face it, they didn't have a lot of money.

Yes. That's right. And it wasn't until 1955 when the studios finally even got into the TV business. And then there was just Warner Brothers. So they were just plucking libraries. You know, like Flash Gordon played on Sunday mornings in Chicago forever, you know, on at 6 a.m. And I noticed, like like I think Channel 5 had all the Warner Brothers

Bogart, Cagney and Robinson and then I think 9 would have like you know, Chaney and Lugosi and Karloff They bought different packages The days before cable I remember

that on New Year's Eve or Christmas Eve they would roll out some Marx Brothers movies and what a big deal that was. That you'd wait all year. There was no VHS. You'd wait all year to see Horse Feathers and to see Monkey Business. It took me 13 years to see all

13 films. Wow. There you go. Now you can buy the two box sets and be done, done. We had hardships in those days. Any words about the late great Charles Grodin, who we just lost? Oh, yeah. No, I am very, very grateful to him. The whole Beethoven thing could have been a huge disaster on many fronts, but he chose to trust me

and collaborate. And Ivan Reitman, in his sweet way, said, if something doesn't work, fix it. And so that led to a lot of him we had Bonnie Hunt and Charles Grodin and Stanley Tucci and Oliver Platt and Dean Jones. Dean Jones, yeah. Patricia Heaton and David Duchovny.

And, you know, I would say a substantial amount of the movie was just made up on the spot. Wow. It drove our wonderful script girl mad, but it worked. We created an environment where everyone contributed, and we worked things out. I had no rehearsal. I didn't have time to storyboard anything. We just kind of went by the seat of our pants, and that forced me to get it right the first time. And luckily, you know, I wasn't the director.

I didn't hire the crew. They weren't happy to see me. The person they were loyal to was back in Texas or something. loyal to was back in Texas or something. And so, you know, it turned out to be a great experience. And, you know, Ivan and his people, all very talented people, you know, Michael Chinich put that cast together. And Ivan, you know, the first time our music editor did a temp score, he threw the guy out and spent the next day taking the cues that we had picked for the guy to use and recut them himself, him and Sheldon Kahn, the Academy Award-winning editor. And you just learned, I mean, here's how you do a temp score, right? And it was right there.

And for someone who was still very inexperienced, you know, Beethoven was the second feature meeting I'd ever taken. You're clearly someone who doesn't believe in the adage, don't work with children and animals. No, I've made a career out of it. But I love working with you. When I got to Bad News Bears, I discovered how much I loved working with children and working with people like Bill Asher, who directed The Witch. Yeah, William Asher. I love Lucy. And he would put an Apple box down next to the lens

and sit eight-year-old Corey Feldman down. Da-da-da-da-da-da-da. Da-da-da-da-da-da-da. Good, try again. Da-da, just keep it rolling. Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. Da-da-da-da-da-da-da. Ha, cut and print.

Moving on. And, you know, how we encouraged these kids Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da- Howard Storm directed a lot of my early episodes. Oh, we had Howard here. Yes. No, I love Howard. Yeah, we love Howard. You work with some wonderful, Milt Josephsberg is another name. You work with some wonderful behind-the-scenes people. Yeah, well, Gary Marshall. Jerry Paris. When Gary Marshall started to kind of relieve himself of his TV obligations, he never fully left. But, you know, he wasn't doing the day-to-day. But he wanted the people who taught

him what he'd learned and so he had harry crane who did the honeymooners harry crane gill yeah and milt josephsburg there to kind of mentor young people like me and you know and that extended beyond you know there was a lot of stories i remember on Kay Kaisa's summer show in 1947. There was a lot of that. But there was also a lot of things about, you know, how to have is on turning everything into a family, running it like that and letting people shine and not letting ego get in the way. But also sharing the spotlight. Yeah. Every year on Happy Days, every character, character quote had a show you know that that he

he knew how to keep people happy he knew how to engage them as a group the happy day softball team is is a magnificent example uh of his team building skills uh that the sunday softball team that he wanted to cast young guys and And Ron taught Henry how to play. And Tom Bosley was a baseball nut. And we got Scott Baio, who was an all-Brooklyn Little Leaguer. And Ted McGinley was an All-American water polo player. And we played as an opening act for 27 major league games. We did charity games in the Orange Bowl. It's in the book.

And the Superdome and USO tours to Germany and Okinawa and Japan. And, you know, we only lost like a handful of games. And half the time we were on the field with people we didn't deserve to be. You know, you go to Philadelphia in front of 57,000 people, and there's four ex-NBA players, Richie Ashburn from the Hall of Fame. Sure. Is in left field. And it's like we tied them two to two.

I mean, what writer, and you were 23, and again, speaking for myself, what writer doesn't want to be in that environment and work for employers like that? You know, and be in a room like that. It was a clinic in how to be successful. And then what to do when you were successful and how to treat people. Yeah. He was a guest that got away for us. We would have really loved to have had him here.

Well, you know, there are many accolades around, including his sister, Ronnie, who was the associate producer of Happy Days for many years. Scotty is a great storyteller about his dad and working with him in the later years. Lowell Gans. You should have those guys on. We will. It would be a great storyteller about his dad and working with him in the later years at Lowell Gans. You should have those guys on. We will. It would be a great show. We should have Gans and Mandel. But, you know, Gary was, you know, he brought things out in people.

And his funeral was the most amazing thing I've ever seen. You know, I mean, Bette Midler sang, Tom Hanks and Julia Roberts spoke, Henry spoke, and it ended with the Northwestern marching band coming out from backstage playing the Happy Days theme, marching up the aisle. Another beloved figure. You know, but a showman, a showman, you know, he was. And where did he learn? From Carl Reiner, from working for Danny Thomas early on and doing the Lucy show. He learned at the feet of great people, and he took what he learned there and tried to make it his own. You've had a wonderful journey, my friend, and you're a terrific guest.

Why, thank you. I can't believe it took us this long to have you. I mean, you've had Michael Oliver before me. That's okay. That was Gilbert's doing. No, no, get the kid who's on the geek squad. Not the guy who's devoted his life to comedy.

No, no, no. He's a good guy. We did, for the John Ritter Foundation, we did a photo shoot a couple years ago. Michael was there, Ivy Ann Schwan, the little girl from Problem Child, and Amy and Scott and Larry. And I told him, you know, that he had gotten a bad rap as a kid, that he was the only child actor I've ever worked with who would read books between takes, who was always prepared, always knew his lines, and was very, very disciplined. And there was problems with his family in the studio that I think derailed what could have been a more promising career.

But he was a real good kid, and he's a really good man now. Which is nice to see. Yeah, we thought we liked having him. What's nice about Michael Oliver's life now is, you know, he accepts that he used to be in showbiz, but now he's just like, he works with computers and he, uh, he's,

he just, he's clean. He's not a junkie. He's not a drug addict. Like all these. Like the cast of different strokes. Yes, exactly. Exactly. He's totally a drug addict like all these. Like the cast of Different Strokes. Yes, exactly. Exactly.

He's totally, you know, like normal. Yes, and that's wondrous. Given what he went through and the tsunami that he faced. Don't use that word on this show, Brian. Oh, yeah. But, you know, I'm sure he couldn't go to the mall for years without people, you know, hey, Junior. I bet. Gilbert, if there's a Problem Child 9, will you be in it?

All right, sure. What the fuck else am I doing? I tried to reboot it a couple of years ago. Problem Child, the new beginning. And Gilbert would have been, you know, the person who in each film dropped him off with a new family. To a new beginning. He would have been the person who, in each film, dropped him off with a new family. To a new beginning. The thread. We're going to have to direct people, too, to your Instagram account, which is also similarly eye-popping.

Greg Perra, one of our social media directors, is a toy collector. And he just told me he spent days on your Instagram page. Oh, well. So it's a treat for collectors. So the book my life and toys coming in 2022 uh brian we could go on for hours well i i i don't have much water left here so we'll make people buy the book too because uh well yeah not make them they're gonna want to buy the book, too, because, well, not make them. They're going to want to buy the book. But there's also a great Captain Kangaroo story, which we won't tell. There's plenty of anecdotes in the book, and it's a page-turner, and it is beautiful to look at.

Thank you. I appreciate that. I can't wait to put it on my coffee table. And, yes, make Gilbert pay for his. All right. table and yes make gilbert pay for his all right well it's been it's been too long gilbert frank you're great love meeting with you thank you for handling all the details involved of course of course we want to thank land and aristotle too and our friends at starburns audio for bringing brian in and and uh we're opening up the studio for, which they've now done two weeks in a row, to give us a shot at quality audio.

And Brian, you know, so much. You've done so much. You've met everybody. I mean, you know, from Groucho to Captain Kangaroo to Chuck Jones to Buffalo Bob. What an adventure. We didn't even talk about Barbara Billingsley and Beaver, but we'll have you back.

That would be great. I'd love to. What a adventure. We didn't even talk about Barbara Billingsley and Beaver, but we'll have you back. That would be great. I'd love to. What a ride. So this has been Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal podcast with my co-host Frank Santopadre, and we've been talking to the man who during the making of Problem Child 2 taught me how to take it in the face.

He's not going to let it go. Brian Levent. What was that about somebody who keeps doing the same bit over and over again? And happy birthday, Scott Alexander. Yes, indeed. All right, Brian.

Happy birthday, Scott. We'll see you soon, pal. All right, thank. Happy birthday, Scott. We'll see you soon, pal. All right. Thank you. I really appreciate it. This was great fun. Bye-bye. The Amadama Dude! Flintstones, meet the Flintstones. They're the modern Stone Age family.

From the town of Bedrock, they're a page right out of history. Let's ride with the family down the street. Through the courtesy of friends to feed. When you're with the Flintstones, have a yabba-dabba-doo time A dabba-doo time We'll have right back. The Flintstones!

Flintstones, meet the Flintstones They're the modern Stone Age family All from the town of Bedrock They're a page right out of history. Someday, maybe Fred will win the fight. Then that cat

will stay out all the night. When you're with the Flintstones, have a yabba-dabba do time. A dabba-do time. We'll have a gay old time. We'll have a gay old time. Yeah!