Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - GGACP Classic: Charles Fox

Episode Date: July 21, 2022

GGACP celebrates the 40th anniversary of one of Gilbert's favorite comedies, "Zapped!" (released July 23, 1982) with this 2019 interview featuring Grammy and Emmy winning composer Charles Fox. In this episode, Charles looks back on a six-decade career of writing top 40 hits (“Killing Me Softly with His Song,” "Ready to Take a Chance Again") as well as music and themes for TV shows (“Happy Days,” “Wonder Woman”) feature films (“Barbarella,” “9 to 5”) and game shows (“Match Game,” “What’s My Line?”). Also, Charles praises Ernie Kovacs, pens a tune for Burt Reynolds, witnesses the Ed Ames tomahawk incident and remembers friends Neal Hefti, Jerry Goldsmith and Henry Mancini. PLUS: "The Green Slime"! “Love, American Style”! The Charles Fox Singers! And the boys pay loving tribute to Paul Williams! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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To hear them in person, plan your trip at tnvacation.com. Tennessee sounds perfect. ["TN Vacation"] TV comics, movie stars, hit singles and some toys. Trivia and dirty jokes, an evening with the boys. Once is never good enough for something so fantastic. So here's another Gilbert and Franks. Here's another Gilbert and Franks.

Here's another Gilbert and Franks. Here's another Gilbert and Franks. Colossal classic. Hi, I'm Beverly D'Angelo and you're listening to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing Colossal Podcast. I can't move I can't move Hi, this is Gilbert Gottfried and this is Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal podcast with my co-host, Frank Santo Padre and our engineer, Frank Fertorosa. Our guest this week is an Oscar nominated, Emmy winning and Grammy winning musician, songwriter, arranger, and conductor, and the composer of some of the most recognizable

and admired film and TV scores and TV theme songs of the last six decades. He's created scores and individual songs for over 100 films including Bob Varela, Goodbye Columbus, Victory and Antebi, Foul Play, 9 to 5, Oh God Book 2 and National Lampoon's European Vacation, just to name a few. And compose music and theme songs for popular TV shows such as ABC's Wide World of Sports, Love American Style, Monday Night Football, Watch My Line, Match Game, The Bugaloos, Happy Days, Laverne and Shirley, Wonder Woman, The Paper Chase, The Love Boat,

co-written with our one-time podcast guest, Paul Williams. With another occasional writing partner, the late Norman Gimble, He penned the hit song, I Got A Name, Killing Me Softly with his song, a number one hit in 1974, and a personal favorite of yours truly, Ready To Take A Chance Again. His songs have been performed by a who's who of popular music including Roberta flat Jim Crouchy Johnny Cash Lena Horne Johnny Mathis Barry Manilow Olivia Newton John and the Boston Pops and even Fred Astaire

he's also composed the music for stage plays, live concerts and ballets and conducted symphony orchestras all over the world. And in 2010 he authored a terrific memoir called Killing Me Softly, My Life in Music. Please welcome one of our favorite composers, a member of the National Songwriters Hall of Fame, and a man who promised that he would do this podcast on the condition that I didn't sing any of his songs. The multi-talented Charles Fox.

I think I said that in jest. Where did you get that quote from? We assumed you had heard him sing. Hey, so guys, thank you very much. I'm very honored to be here. Thank you for the lovely introduction. I think I need to take a vacation. I did some work. You did a lot, Charles. It's dizzying.

Before our listeners, some of our crazed listeners, are going to get angry that we left out your most important credit. Which was that? The green slime. Had I known you would put that up, I would have said, could you sing one of my songs instead? Truth be told, I told him the section from the book where you said the green slime followed you around for decades. It does.

It does. I didn't write any music for that at all. It was my first, well, first opportunity to make some extra money, if you want to know the truth, going back years ago, and I took the job, and it turned out that all I had to do was help them to find existing music and cut it into the picture. And I took the job and I, oh why are we talking about the Greek? It was a throwaway joke. Really?

Let's call this prologue. A Japanese sci-fi movie. Anyways, a Japanese sci-fi. And first I called the producer back, the director, and I said, you know what? I can't do it. I can't do it. I just, I can't spend the next few weeks cutting someone else's music, canned music. I said, it just goes against me.

And I needed the money, to be honest. Going back a hundred years of my career career before I did my first picture. Mm-hmm and they convinced you said, you know I'm counting on you and I did anyway, so I I said I'll tell you what I'll do it under one condition Which took me a week or two? and You know when you use that kind of can music it was like, all right You go into your addition some of the music it might be right for a scene And so or that sounds pretty good It was like, all right, you go into your audition, some of the music might be right for a scene.

And you say, oh, that sounds pretty good. Let me have about a pound and a half of that music, you know, and a quarter of a pound of this kind of music. And you put it into the picture. I said, I'll do it under one condition that you don't put my name on the screen. That was my only condition. And he did not live up to that condition.

So it came up with the original Japanese composer who was hired, and whatever I did, I took demos and I threw it into the film, whatever. And for years after that, I could be someplace in the film business, music business, someone say, hey, I saw your picture last night, great slime. And they said, really, why'd you do the picture? I said, really, why'd you do the picture? I said, really, why'd you watch that picture? That's the perfect answer. Had you heard of

the Green Slime before this, Gilbert? Because you know every bad horror movie. Yes, yes. Known to men. Yeah. He knows them all. Well, don't remind me, okay? Now the music, years ago I saw the movie Zapped with Scott Baio, Willie Ames, Scatman Crothers and Heather Thomas, which I thought was going to be, and we'll be discussing this with our next guest. We'll be talking about it later too. This was a TNA teen sex comedy. About telekinesis, right? Yes, yes.

It was like kind of a takeoff on Carrie, and it was a terrible movie. But I swear to you, I liked the music. Stayed with him all these years. Really, well, you know, it's a funny thing I swear to you, I like the music to Zapp. Really, well, you know, it's a funny thing because she started with two of my least favorite prices. Where do they go from here? But!

We're good at that. Practicing scales of hand and piano. No matter what I promise you, we are gonna sing some songs from Zapp. You're just getting even with me now, you know that? Oh, and I'll tell you about Zap. So I wrote a bunch of songs and two of them became classics in the Philippines. Wow!

Only in the Philippines. You're big in Manila. Tell me which one, I'll sing it right now. Gotta Believe in Magic? Okay, okay. I'll, alright, I'm ready. Be careful, Charles, be careful. You want to sing it?

Yeah. Take me to your heart, show me where to start Let me play the part of your first love All the stars are bright Let us make a wish tonight my love Pity those who wait Trust and love to fate Finding out too late that they've lost it Never let it go you will never know the ways of love

Got to believe in magic. Show me how two people find each other in a world that's full of strangers. Got to believe in magic. It's stronger than the moon that shines above. Cause it's magic when two people fall in love. You know what? I'm so amazed. This is so personal. I haven't played that in 40 or 50 years. And you are still singing that song. Yes, yes! I'm afraid to tell you the other song that's in the film. Okay, I'm ready, I'm ready!

I bet you, wait, don't say another word! Is it King and Queen's... Yes, okay! Okay, want me to start? Come on, I'm ready, I'm ready, I love this! I don't remember it myself. Okay, well, fake it! A fake western.

Okay, okay, sing a little awesome. Okay. I don't remember it myself. Okay, where the King and Queen of hearts Hold me when the music starts All my dreams come true When I danced with you That's that's great Promise me your mind tonight. I will wait in line Tonight I

With the lights down low never let you go did you dream that we'd dance together in a night that we'd stay forever in a dream that we thought would never end or a part of the orchestration. This began with the coronation where the king and the queen of hearts. I'm really amazed. Oh, this is the greatest moment. I am really amazed. Oh, this is the greatest moment. So for me it is. I will tell you this.

It's only famous in the Philippines. Until now. Until now. Until we post it on Facebook. You know, this may be the start of big things for me here, you know. I may have a career after this. In the Philippines. I'm considered the next Charlie Chaplin I want to tell somebody you can go to the Philippines. Just singing that song. They'll love you there But when the show ends yeah, we have to do the ending of

Which is oh, I won't remember that at all The show ends. We have to do the ending of Zap, which is uh... Oh, I won't remember that at all. Ready to get what you got. Oh, I can't go there. I can't go there. Well, fake it! That one I love! We'll find some other ones for you. It was performed by Plain Jane, was the name of this imaginary group.

We had two or three different groups, but David Palmer had sang those two songs, and here's what happened. The movie wasn't a great movie and it was over and done with, right? Years later, about four or five, six, seven years later, I went to see David Pomerantz perform the show with David Zippel, the great songwriter, friend of mine who we've collaborated. Good writer. Wonderful writer. And after the show, David Pomeranz comes up to me and says, you do know that those two songs you wrote for me are big hits in the Philippines. I said, how would I know that? I never saw royalties. No one ever mentioned it.

So he sent me a video of him singing and as soon as they played a little bit of introduction, I gotta believe in magic, about 5,000 girls start screaming because they know the song. Since that time, because he's become very famous in the Philippines, they've been trying to get me there too for a while. Amazing.

But every place that I've gone, where we were on a cruise last year, we were on a love boat cruise, they got me to play the piano and sing some of my songs. All the waiters were Filipino. And if I ever mention, I give people the Filipino test. I know if they're really Filipino, if they know that song. That's hilarious.

Yeah. And then they start singing anyway. So it was a, what else about my past, you know? This is an interesting thing from the book that I was sharing with Gilbert tell us it was almost destined that you would be a musician because of something called the music bump did you explain this to our listeners I don't think I explained that to anyone could you but I'll tell you the fable story in my family supposedly interesting when I was born I in the middle of three boys.

The doctor supposedly looked at the young born child that I was and said, there's a bump. That's a music bump in the back of his head. Amazing. Well, I was. And it meant what? That you... It meant the doctor was drunk. But don't know. But there it is.

I followed what he said. And started playing the piano at age nine. I did, yeah. And Frank and I were both interested in that you used to play in the Catskills. Oh yeah. You put your first band together. You know, that's where we all got started. I have so many friends who got started in the Cascades

That's where all the great comics started, you know, could you tell us some of the comics you worked with? You know, I play the piano and first place I played I was 15 years old had my first band and We're pretty thrilled to get a job, you know. And there were other hotels, there were big hotels, there were 450 hotels in the Calisthenics Mountains. It was a pretty amazing place. How about that?

And some of the biggest comedians in the world, but big bands, you know, very beautiful places, they were large, I played a little place. And we didn't have new entertainment that came in, we had two people who came from Yiddish theater. Harry Steinman being one of them. You know too much about him. And Velma Ravel was the other one.

Did they go back to Vaudeville? They do and they used to put on skits. And Harry Steinman used to actually put lipstick on like the old Vaudeville theater with pancake makeup and they would act out plays and stuff and I would sit there. You know, just make up things to go around. The happy Jewish moment, you know. You guys were 15, you probably didn't know what hit you.

Well, maybe it's just out of my motion picture for you. Anyway, that's where it started for me. I'll tell you who I did work with, it was Shelly Berman. Shelly did a show for me. We went to, we did in Florida for six weeks. And he was a friend. What a funny guy. He was a nice man. We wanted to have him on this show, but he had taken the turn for the worse by the time we started.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He would have been great too. But you know, it's very romantic in the book because you're talking about not only the Catskills, you romanticize it. You know, you were 15 and the world was your oyster, but also the coming of age in New York at that time and you're describing hanging out at the Blue Node

and going to these jazz clubs and there's a doo-wop group on every corner, I was explaining it to Gilbert, must have been great times. It was great times, yeah. And it was an innocent time. So you know, the truth is, those days I really wasn't into pop music, rock and roll. I discovered Latin music, you know, and I loved jazz and I loved classical music. But I wasn't into rock and roll of the 50s. I didn't get to appreciate it honestly

until I got to do Happy Days. And they asked me to, you know, I did a lot of the shows for Gary Marshall. And that was one of them. And that was actually an outgrowth of Love, America style. When I sat down to write Happy Days, I realized I was not into the 50s.

I have to get some background. So I went out and bought 50s records. And you know, the 50s was a pretty simple time. It was just... ["The 50s"] Or... ["The 50s"] Elvis Presley.

It was either the blues of 1625 chord progression. And so the really happy days was 1625 chord progression. Meant to sound like a 50s Song that would somehow come back and began which it turned out became big hit We can think about happy days to is as you you mentioned they started with rock around the clock Yes, so it was went at what pointed Miller and milk us Those guys came to you and say and said we need a we need an original song for this well first of all it was in love American style you said three episodes

each week oh yeah people forget that it came from love in the happy days love in the happy day yeah always love American style and so that was one of the episodes since ABC decided that they would make a pilot they thought it'd be good a good idea and they decided to shelve it eventually because they thought that the world wasn't ready to revisit the 50s. Yeah, we had Henry here, told us that. Yeah.

So then finally when American Graffiti came out, and that was a big hit, ABC decided to give it a shot and put it on the air. So American Graffiti's theme was Rocking Around the Clock. We wrote, Norma Gimble and I wrote Happy Days and put it on the air. So Mark Graffiti's theme was Rock Around the Clock. We wrote, Norma Gimble and I wrote Happy Days song right away for the pilot. But they thought, well let's hold it for the end title.

For the main title, just wanted to create that 50s sound that everyone knows. They use Rock Around the Clock. So the show was on for a year, and it was doing pretty well. Not great, but great enough they gave it a second year. And they realized somehow after a few episodes that Henry Winkler was fast emerging

as the star of the show, even though Ronnie was great, Ron Howard. And also, Henry was getting a lot of letters, people really, he was fast becoming the star, a star, actually. And he was fast becoming the star, a star actually. And the other thing they said is let's try, we went from a film show to a four camera live show with an audience.

And Gary Marshall was, you know, like one of the funniest men ever. And he would warm up the audience and they loved the people. And so they decided, well, if we're gonna give it a new look and a new sound, we're going to have to, for the fans at the store and for cameras, let's use our happy days theme song at the beginning. And then it all broke open. You know, we had a top, I don't know, it was number one record in Europe, I know that, but it was top five,

I think around the country. Well, it's still one of the most beloved theme songs. And Gilbert and I got a kick out of the fact that you wrote a Ralph and Potsy, you wrote music for a Ralph and Potsy pilot and a Pinky Tuscadero one. We did, we did. We did spin-offs. They tried to spin it off. Well, Laverne Shirley was a spin-off. Right. Right. And finally, Mork and Mindy. And you wrote the theme music to Love American Style and also that interstitial music that

would play. You know what I did there? That we had little vignettes. Yeah. So on those little vignettes, I treated them like a different classical composer would do that. One time it was Beethoven, one time Chopin, Brahms, and I would just treat them as separate

and different musically than the theme itself. Yeah, those were some of the greatest scores. They were fun. Actually, one of the truth, on the 17th, if Arnold Margolin is hearing this, he was a creator. Yeah, I met Arnold at a party a couple years ago. He's a sweet guy. I'm going to see him at a party in a couple weeks.

Oh, good. Please give him my best. They're having a Love, America, Saw reunion at the Paramount Commissary, which he called me to make sure I'm going to get there. Wow. And so those of us who are around. And Stuart's coming too? I don't know if Stewart's coming.

I don't know if he's in the Midwest. We had him on the show too. Yes, yes. We had Stewart. Stewart's great. Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's probably the first time I saw the name Charles Fox on my television was Love American style.

It probably was the first time, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I know you had done some composing of, well wide world of sports came before that I came before that well I did Monday night football came before that too right the original Monday night football one the original Monday Yeah, oh and one movie I recommended on this show Was a strange film in black and white. Oh, here we go another one of these This is this is your friend Larry Pierce. Oh well my friend Larry Pierce is I'm gonna see him for dinner. Oh he's still around. Good boy I

like his stuff. Yeah my god Larry's one of my closest friends. Oh my god. And this starred Martin Sheen, Tony Monsante. Everybody. Monsante yeah.ilford. Oh, what's his name? Bo Bridges. Bo Bridges, yes. And what's his name? Mike Kellan. Yeah. Ed McMahon, Brock Peters.

You have a fantastic memory for things, my God. Yeah. I tell you, this has come up on the show before. Oh, really? We had a whole episode about the incident, a shorter episode. Yeah, I really liked that. Well, you should speak to Larry Pierce. We should speak to Larry Pierce we should speak to Larry Pierce he just came in town I think today we're gonna see him we like goodbye Columbus too well Larry really

is one of my closest friends in the state my very first picture in 1967 was with Larry Pierce and that was the incident and it was a black and white picture and it was a very very fine picture and it was a black and white picture, and it was a very, very fine picture. And it was a picture in black and white of two tough guys, Tony Busente and Marty Sheen, terrorizing a subway car. And it was such a frightening episode. In the 60s, there was a lot of stuff going on

in subways. Yeah, sure. And I wrote the score and it was a hit but it was also people were very bothered by it. It wasn't just sit back relaxed picture you know it's very intense. My next picture was Bob Rella that was Dino and Dino Laurentiis. Roger Vadim. Yeah sure two characters Dino, Dino Larranthes. Sure. Roger Vadim. Yeah sure. Two characters. Dino Dino Larranthes and Roger Vadim. Well and actually that was a really nice situation for me because that was Bob Crew.

Yeah. You know great genius of the record. Four seasons. And so we wrote a bunch of songs for that and I did the score and that was a lot of fun. That was a hit. That was a big hit around the world. And the next picture that I was up for was Goodbye Columbus. And so when Bob Rilla came out, the people from Paramark came out to see who this young fellow was in New York doing a big film, No One Knew Me,

because Bob had got me to do that. So that led to Goodbye Columbus, which was Larry. So I've done a lot of pictures of Larry. But I'll tell you why, in Bob Rilla, so I've done a lot of pictures of Larry. I'll tell you what, in Barbarossa, so many memorable things. When we were finished with the film, I had to go to France to teach Jane Fonda how to sing the theme of the song.

And that was, you know, as a young composer, and she and Vadim, Roger Vadim, lived in a farmhouse. I spent a couple days out there with him in the farmhouse, in France, and teaching her how to sing the song. And he had a red Ferrari. And- He lived a good life. Yeah, he lived a good life.

Roger Vadim. And that was the inspiration for me many years later, to get a red Ferrari from The Little Truth. Really? Yeah, I always remember that. Were you going to cut a record with her, Jane Fonda? There was some talk of that? Well, we were supposed to do an album.

Yeah. Bob Kerr and I were supposed to go to Saint Tropez, spend the summer, and do an album for Jane Fonda. Amazing. And she decided that she didn't want to sing. Yeah. Barbarella is another movie that's come up on the show. Did you have any direct interaction with De Laurentiis,

who's a larger than life figure? Very little, to be honest with you. Very little, yeah. But with you, very little. But I worked with Vadim, the director. You know, movies I worked mostly with the directors. Television is an odd thing, but mostly with the producers. The interesting thing about the incident too, and I read in your book that the way people reacted in movie theaters, that people were actually having negative, in some ways very

emotional negative reactions to the movie. People were tearing up movie theaters. The incident. Yeah, the incident. Yeah, going back to this. Yes, because there was such intensity, I wouldn't even want to repeat it on the end, the show, but there was such intensity,

these two guys terrorizing couples and individuals. And it finally got to the point where, Beau Bridges, and that was, I spoke to Bo recently about that. It was not his first film, but it was Tony Musetta's first Not Tony. It was Tony Musetta's film also Martin Sheen Marty Sheen. Yeah, his first film. Yeah, everybody's good in it. Everyone is great Yeah, Larry's powerful movie. I'll tell you they shot that on a subway set they built in the Bronx at the, I forget the name of the theater, but it's where Charlie Chatham used to, and I was on the set and

it was just a subway- The Biograph Theater? Biograph Theater was it. And the thing was shaking and the lights were passing by, so you thought you were moving and the whole thing was shot right there. It's a wonderful movie, but it's an unsettling movie and it still holds up all these years later. It was just last year. That's why we got to talk with Marty Sheen and everyone else was there and it was honoring Larry the screening and it was part of the Turner Film Classics episode.

Gilbert brought it up on a show. We've done so many of these. We used to just talk about favorite movies and he brought that up one day and we did a whole show about it. Yeah, that was one of those movies I just caught on TV years ago and it was like, you know, it hooks you in. The Blu-ray just came out. The Brutal Abbey Dance just was released. They sent me a copy. Well, if Larry wants to talk to us, you know, we'd certainly love to. Unfortunately, I don't know the theme song. Yeah, you're in luck.

I didn't write that. No, I didn't write it. Yeah, but another nice story in the book too, is when you first got out to LA, I think it was your first day in Hollywood, you met Henry Mancini. You know, Hollywood was a dream. Can't even start, who could have imagined

to get out and do big movies in Hollywood? I remember seeing, fantasizing, seeing at a Life magazine with the Henry Mancini story, you know, and that he started off and he was in the army, he played the piccolo, he played the piano, and he was in a Ranger and he got to do movies and of course he was the King of Hollywood You know and the nicest man in the world by the way so my very first day in Hollywood the I came out to do good by Columbus and Paramount sent a limousine for me my family and I was all totally

Impressive, you know here we are again the limousine going to apartment. They got the next day. I showed up at the studio and and limousine going to an apartment. The next day I showed up at the studio, and the guard said, or you go through the studio, you'll find left turn, right turn. In front of the museum building, you'll find your Parker's bass. And I pull up to my Parker's bass,

and to the left of me is Neil Hefty. Oh, we love Neil Hefty. And to the right of me is Henry Mancini. I thought I had died and gone to heaven. How about that? Between those two girls. How about that? Yeah, two guys. How about that? Yeah, Neil Hefty was odd couple and had a murderous wife.

Yeah, he was a friend too. Neil was a great guy. Oh, Batman. He was great, yeah. He was great, yeah. Wonderful composer, arranger. We love these guys. And one thing you have in common with Henry Mancini

is like you've gotten your past the green slime and Henry Mancini I think made his living early on with these crappy sci-fi films. I don't know that, but you know everyone gets started. Yeah, of course. So he was like this brilliant composer. But he's nice to me. So he came into the commissary, I was there with the music editor,

and the head of the music department kind of entertaining me, a new composer in town. My very first day in California. And Henry comes in, he says, they wave him over, come on over here, Hank, I want you to meet someone. So we had lunch together. And he turns to me after a few minutes, and he says, are you in the Motion Picture Academy?

I said, no, I'd love to be, I don't know how it happens. He said, well, you need to have three pictures. How many pictures have you done? I said, well, it's my third, I'm working on it. He said, good. He said, someone has to, you have to have two people sign for you, you can't apply, you have to be invited. He said, so I'll invite you.

He said, I'm happy to do this. He said, we need new blood in the academy. That's great. Wow. He said, so I'll invite you. He said, I'm happy to do this. He said, we need new blood in the academy. That's great. Wow. He said, you know anyone else? I said, honestly, I don't know anyone. He said, I'll ask Elmer Bernstein. Wow.

Oh my God. So my first day in Hollywood, I get invited to join the Motion Picture Academy. How about that? Neil Hefty, Elmer Bernstein and Henry Mancini all at once. And we should give us some context. I mean, you're a kid from New York who used to go to the pier and look out at the ships and hope that one day you would be able to see the world. And dream about doing what I was doing. And you're living it at this point.

Living the dream. But honestly, I still am. Good for you, Charles. Good perspective. And I've had great parents, you know. They supported this all along. They supported my dream. Yeah. They didn't think it was in any way crazy, like, what are you going?

I never heard that. No. No, I never heard that. Oh, nice. And how easy, I mean, look, how many people grew up in the Bronx and middle-class family and then want to go to Paris to study music, you know, not a lot of people. But my parents supported that, you know, and my dreams. How long were you in Paris with the great Nadia?

Two years? About two years. Two years. Yeah, and in the book, and people can tell our listeners to pick up the book, which again is called Killing Me Softly, My Life in Music. Thank you, yeah. The stories of you and your teacher, your mentor,

Nadia, fair to call her that? I call her Mademoiselle Boulanger. You can call her Nadia because you don't know her. Yes. Now here's the thing, a woman, she was 72 years old when she was 18. Yeah. And I came home when I was 21.

A woman, a French woman of that age should be called Madame. Yes. Her mother was Madame, so she was Mademoiselle. I noticed that in the book. So we all called her Mademoiselle, you know. And who else did she teach besides you? We were talking outside.

Well, 40 years before me, Aaron Copland was the first. But people came from around the world and some of the great composers around the world. A. Lee Carter and... Yeah, Michel Legrand. Michel Legrand, yes. Philip Glass. Philip Glass. great composers around the world. Elie Carter and... Yeah, Michel Legrand. Michel Legrand, yes. Philip Glass. Philip Glass.

I once was talking to Michel Legrand about that, and he said, well, I was there for six years or something, but he was also French. He had a leg up on you. He was there anyway. But however, wait a second, Michel Legrand's one of the great... Oh, of course, we just lost him. Yes, we did, Yeah, one of the greatest Musicians composers ever and Quincy Jones

Quincy's a friend. Yeah, Quincy and you know when I get to have a Quincy we talk about you do that's nice Yeah, we speak a little French also sometimes I was telling Gilbert you you know Part of the the fun of reading the book is you're talking about having I'm a kid who kept kosher and suddenly I'm in Paris. And there's food everywhere. And you didn't, you know. I didn't know what to do. Suddenly a new world. The first day, we hooked up,

I think we were on a charter flight with a bunch of us going to the, for the summers, the summer school, Fontainebleau's in the Palace of Fontainebleau. There was Napoleon's summer palace. Wow. And built by Francois I. But anyway, I hooked up with some other people going to Paris, part of the school, and we had a week to spend in Paris

before the school started, Fonthebleu. So we all kind of stayed together, because no one knew anyone or anything. We walked together, we took a train together, and we had meals together. And I didn't know anything about food that didn't come from my own house, frankly. Corned beef sandwiches, I knew.

And every night I would have steak because I could understand the word steak. All the other things, rabbit, mutton, lamb. Corned fish, anyway, so after a while, after about a third day, there was steak tartare. And I thought, well, I'll give it a shot. That's probably steak with the sauce. That's our sauce.

So I asked for the steak tartare, well done. Right. Which they will laugh because steak tartare is raw steak. Right, exactly. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal podcast, but first, a word from our sponsor. See yourself buying a home one day?

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And we were talking, because we're both fans of Get Smart, that you wrote a song for one of our guests, Barbara Felden. We had Barbara Felden. Oh really? She lives a few blocks from here. I didn't write the songs. You even wrote an arrangement.

I erased the songs, yes. And that was for David Susskind. 1999. We had a song called Ancient 99. I found it online. It's on YouTube. Is that so? Yes.

And Dan Melnick, now that was his partner, and Dan Melnick, during that recording session, put his arm on my shoulder and said, hey kid, it sounds like you could do pictures. I was an arranger and I said, I sure would love to. And then I ended up getting a picture, one of my first pictures for David Susskind. So that was a turning point. It was. Doing this, yeah. Yeah, cause you know what,

there's been a lot of turning points, may I be honest with you. People have asked me that question. Sure. I got sort of, I guess, I got a lot of starts. You know, and one of my starts is working for Skishandis in a tonight show. Yeah, tell us about that,

cause there's also a famous tonight show episode that falls into that story. Oh, I was there. Yeah. Yeah, tell us about that, because there's also a famous Tonight Show episode that falls into that story. Oh, I was there. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. There's one of the, when you see like some of the greatest funny moments for Johnny Carson or television.

It's an iconic moment. It's an iconic moment, Ed Ames throwing the tomahawk. And I was with Ed Ames that day. Incredible. And he sang Try to Remember and one other song. And I did the arrangements. So in the afternoon, Remember and one other song. And I did the arrangements. So in the after, you know, the show tapes in the afternoon and we did the show.

I did rehearse the band. And then he played an Indian on Daniel Boone. He was no more an Indian than you and me. But that was when he played the role. I forgot his character's name. So they wheel out this big backboard of a wooden thing with a kind of a carving or a cut out of a, an outline of a sheriff, of a cowboy.

And they handed it to Tomahawk. He never threw at Tomahawk. He said, here, throw it. He says, I don't know how to throw. So he just naturally pointed the point of it towards the screen, this backdrop, and threw it, and 10 times in a row it kept bouncing off. And one of the stagehands came to him and said,

here, turn it the other way so that the point is facing you. He threw it once, it stuck in, and they marked the spot. And so he sang his one or two songs, and then they handed him the tomahawk. He threw it, and he had no idea that it was going to hand, he was going to circumcise this, get this cow down. And he got, you can't see, of course, this black and white TV. He got all red in the face.

He was so blind. And all he wanted to do was get out and remove this thing. And Johnny, who's a comic comic genius he kept you watch it he keeps pulling it back and he tries to make his way over there sharpening the two things he's waiting for his line he milked that joke as much as it can milk it you know and he's he Carson said to him it's it's okay you can't hurt him any worse first he said I didn't know you were Jewish. Oh yes, right. Yes! What did you do with Skitch on the Carson show?

First of all, the themes, original themes as the show went on the air and off the air, not the Tonight Show theme, but they play music. I used to write some of those themes, the show would go on the air, off the air, for the big band with Doc, you know, Doc was the trumpet player. Right, of course. Later on I did an album with Doc, actually. A whole album with Doc.

And then every now and then, Sketch would do a separate piano arrangement where he'd play the piano of the band, and I would arrange that for him too. So he really was great. Now one thing we love on this show, and we've played it a few times, and that's the Nairobi Trio.

Oh yeah, earlier in your career, I made a note that you did an arrangement of the Nairobi Trio piece from Ernie Kovacs. You know, as a young arranger, if you're dreaming about being a arranger, all you want to do is write something and hear it. So you can put the notes on paper, but until the Trump is played back and the saxophone you have no idea how it's gonna sound. The guy who was the head of the jazz band when I was a freshman maybe a sophomore in high school he we had a fantastic jazz band his name was Joel Greenwald actually and one day he was a Trump player that I knew

professionally because he had worked the same place you mentioned the Catskill Mountains he had been that same hotel to you before and He said to me well if you want to write something for the big band we'll play it and so That makes Gilbert so happy. We're picturing the chimps. So what I loved about that, there was, if you remember, people who remember, there were three gorillas. Yeah. Oh, they sat next to each other.

And this, too, this, you remember, I'm sure. Yes. Oh, yeah. You remember I'm sure. Yes! Oh yeah! And while this music was playing, the three gorillas were standing and one gorilla had a big stack of blocks, which one by one he would pass to the guy in the middle. And he'd pass block after block. And the third guy just stood. Didn't do anything.

That was the whole bit. And then one had like a drumstick or something that he would hit the other one on the head with. That was Ernie Kovacs, right? Yeah, that was his show. He was a combat genius. A hundred years this year of Ernie Kovacs' birth. I would say he would have been a hundred, but that's unlikely. I love your career at that point too because you're bouncing around and you're doing so many interesting things. You did commercials, you did those Parker Brothers commercials.

I did a lot of commercials. Yeah, and the White Owl cigars. When the values go up, up, up, and the prices go down, down, down, Robin Hall in season will show you the reason. Low overhead reason low overhead Listeners are gonna eat this up. Are there any other famous ones like that? You remember the white owl cigars? You? You know what, I have to confess to you, I didn't write that song. I only arranged it. Oh, you arranged it.

But I arranged it a hundred different ways. We had the Christmas thing, I don't know, I did all the commercials. Like I think Barry Manlow said in an interview. Oh, he did a lot of jingles. Yeah, because he had a history of writing jingles. He did, yeah. lot of jingles. Yeah, because he had a history of writing jingles. And that he said, now I can't write a song that's not catchy. Oh, well, that's true. But Barry's a great writer, great writer. Another thing you wrote then that Gilbert and I are interested into is game show music for

Goodson and Todman. And I like the story in the book about you about what a hard sell Was it? Toddman the other guy mark good son Mark good son means to come in to say hello to me. Yeah, they had an office on the secret building of the right floor they had the whole 30th floor and there was a big conference room and I I got to do that the shows, you know three or four of the shows. Tell the truth you did and match game and what's my life. And it would always start off with Mark coming out, saying hello to me, and then I'd go into this room to play my little theme.

You know, now if you do something, you make a demo, you synthesize it, it sounds good. I would just have this little, and it wasn't even 88 keys, it must have been 66 keys. I don't know why, there was plenty of room for a full piano in that room. And I would sit down and Mark would assemble all of his staff. No pressure. Including Gene Rayburn, you remember Gene Rayburn? Yes, sure.

And he'd bring them all, come on, let's hear the new theme for the show. And I'd sit down and in my head I'd hear trumpets and flutes and piccolos by him. ["Piccolo in D minor"] And I would play that through and Mark would go around, he's just standing by the piano and lean over this piano, this little upright piano, and his left hand he had a big cigar and he smoked. And then I finished this little theme and he turned to each one of the people in the

room and say, what'd you think, what'd you think? But no one knew what he thought, so no one wanted to say what they thought. Oh, one of those. You know, so they would say, oh, nice beat, it's nice rhythm, it's catchy, whatever they would say. And finally, Mark would turn and to me, he says, oh, let's hear it again.

I go back. ["The Last Supper"] ["The Last Supper"] ["The Last Supper"] ["The Last Supper"] ["The Last Supper"] ["The Last Supper"] And some along the way, while I was playing,

I would see his foot tapping. And when I see his foot tapping, I knew I had him. You had him! And then I had him, yeah. He was a hard sell. I think Dick DiBartolo was probably in that room. Oh my God! He was a writer on Match Game and he used to punch a clock in that Sebrim's building.

And how did foul play come about? Well, I did a lot of work for Tom Miller and Eddie Milkes. You know, I did most of the television shows, Happy Days, Laverne and Shirley. And they were good friends and wonderful guys. And Foul Play was their second movie. The first one I didn't do, it was, Henry Mancini actually did that one. But Colin Higgins was the writer.

Sure, Harold and Maude. Harold and Maude, he did direct that first one, Silver Streak. Right, it was Arthur Hiller. Arthur Hiller, right, and it was a terrific movie. Henry, of course, always did a great job. The next picture, he wrote a trilogy. The second was Foul Play, which is a big hit,

and the third one never was made. With Billy Bardy. Yeah, Billy Bardy second was Foul Play, which is a big hit, and this third one never was made. With Billy Bardi. Yeah, Billy Bardi's in Foul Play. The third one was one that never was made, it's called Man Who Lost Tuesday, never made it. And Calvin died not too many years after that. I work with him again with Nine to Five. And he made Best Little Horrors in Texas too.

Yes, and actually I wrote a song for him for Burt Reynolds, which didn't get used, by the way. That's in the book. Yeah, Dolly upstaged you. Well, it's okay. Dolly's a great songwriter. And she was in the movie.

She felt that was a spot. And no complaints, you know. But so when Colin did his first directing, he asked me to do it, the movie, and I did the remaining pictures with him. And now I gotta put you on the spot yet again, because that's my job. Charles, you're a sport.

Do I have a choice? No. I want to sing the great song you wrote. Which one is that? Ready to take a chance again. You do? Yes, I do. With you playing, oh my God. It's like he went to heaven. You remind me, I live in a shell.

Say from the past, I'm doing okay, but not very well. Not doing very well. No, no jokes. No surprises, no crisis arises. My life goes along as it should. It's all very nice, but not very good. And I'm ready to take a chance again. Ready to put my love on the line with you. You're living with nothing to show for it. You get what you get when you go for it.

And I'm ready to take a chance again ready to take a chance again with you when she left me and all my despair I just held on my hopes were whole He knows the whole thing! I'm ready to take a chance again. Ready to put my love on the line with you. You're living with nothing to show for it. You get what you get when you go for it. And I'm ready to take a chance again, ready to take a chance again with you, with you.

Barry Manil, eat your heart out, right? You know, we used to sing it on the show, acapella, and I said to Darryl, now we'll never get Charles Farr. And now I'm going to say, now we'll never get Barry. Because Charles is here. Barry's a good sport. So you wrote that song. I did. With Norman.

Norman. Norman. Great Norman. That is a terrific song. Thank you. And that's one of those songs, like a lot of songs that Barry Manlow made famous with Hitch, is one of those songs where people don't want to say how much they like the song. Yeah, there are these songs that you feel like,

oh, I want to pick something really, you know, something by Captain Beefheart. You know, there's an episode my grandson watches, I think it's a cartoon show at night, it's kind of a hip cartoon show, The Americans or something, I don't know what. That they did a whole episode on these four or five guys that sit around and they said, Yeah, I don't want to sing any Barry. Which shows you live in? Which singer is in? They said Barry Mendoly.

Yeah, I don't care for the songs. Oh, oh, it's Family Guy. Family Guy. Yes. And well, how about Mandy? Yeah, that one's not too bad. Yeah, it's just the other songs. How about Ready, Take, and Send? Oh, I like, and they all started singing. Of course. That's because Seth's a Barry Manilow fan, the guy that runs that show. He's gotta be.

Oh, and then in Penny... Barry Manilow, I have to say, is one of the nicest men, one of the greatest. If you ever saw his show, you'll never forget it. I've seen his show. I saw him outdoors, Forest Hills. I saw a show too. I'm a definite Barry Mandlow fan. We're fans. And family guy then they get like little girls and they say oh we have to see him and then Barry Mandlow's there singing to Quagmire yeah and says, you came and you gave without taking, he sings and

Quagmire goes, I would never take from you Barry. I think when you talk to Seth next again, ask him if he's a Barry Manilow fan because I'm sure he is because it's turned up a lot. I saw him, he would take out, he never took himself seriously in those live shows He would take out the accordion and play Lady of Spain and then he would finish and say I'd like to see Billy Joel do that That's what I was talking about he's one of those guys people are embarrassed To say they like his songs, but everybody loves his songs. Not the people who come to see his shows. Oh my God.

Not the people who count. And not the people who buy records. And Dari is one of the greatest entertainers and one of the most popular successful singers ever. Yeah, I loved his show. Was that a fun film to score because it's a comedy, but it's also a Hitchcock homage? You know what, and I've done a few of those kind of things.

I've done a number of movies that are, they're dramatic, and they're sometimes suspenseful, and yet comedy at the same time. Like, nine to five was little like that. I did a picture called Trench Coat too. Oh, I know that picture. Robert Hays? Yeah, Robert Hays. Yeah.

But anyway, yes. So I remember talking with Colin Higgins before the picture was shot, and the end of the movie was Goldie Hawn and Chevy Chase making his first movie. Sure. Trying to get to stop the Pope from being killed. He was gonna, there was a. Just sort of an homage of the man who knew too much. It was. Yeah.

It was, definitely, yeah. Colin was very quick to say that. He was a real fan of Hitchcock. And so it's going to start with the beginning of the Mikado, and then we're going to see the Goldie and Chevy trying to get to the opera house and stop this murder from about to happen, but they kept getting stopped by traffic and a singing cowboy star and all kinds of fun stuff, you know, and two Japanese people in a taxi singing

chop chop something, what was the, it was a famous television, I don't remember. Kojak, Kojak, Kojak Chop Chop, you remember that? Oh, they kept, right, right. Anyways, and we kept, so I do a piece of music, and then we cut to the opera house. And every time we have to have the opera house more in progress.

So we listed five or six or seven pieces that the opera would have to sing. And I went to New York and I recorded the New York City Opera Company doing those numbers. And then when the picture was finished, I wrote the music that led into each operatic moment so that in the end, the design was, at the end of this long 10 minute scene,

it would play like one piece of music, mine and then Arthur Sullivan, then mine and then Sullivan, you know? So that was pretty challenging. Yeah, I can imagine. It's a good film. Oh, it's a great film. It's a good film. And now I'm gonna go back and watch it again and just listen

to the music. Yeah, I did have a lot of fun. Absolutely. He was another one of our former guests. Who's that? Chevy Chase. Oh, Chevy. In fact, he sang Ready to Take a Chance Again, to Chevy. Yeah. So I work with him on the European vacation. Sure. Sure. Was that Amy Heckerling? I think it was. We had Amy here too. Yes. We're following your career, Charles. What took you so long to hear me? We're stalking you. Since you're talking about, this is a fun story too, since you're talking about how you were pitching in the room to Mark Goodson, the story of you pitching the love boat theme to Aaron Spelling.

That was unique. Yeah. I've told that story many times. It's fun. I mean, along the way when I played songs, new songs for people, sometimes they had some way to hear it in the room, a cassette machine. Sometimes they had nothing. I'd have sometimes four or five producers going into my little car, listening to something

in my car. And I played themes over the phone for people. Yeah, that's interesting too. But that particular one, Love Boat, there was a movie called Love Boat. It was a two hour movie and I did a few of them. And then they decided to make it as a series, and I said, it would be great, Aaron, if we got a song.

He said, who would you guys, I said, Paul Williams. We just worked together, he's fantastic. They said, it would be great, Aaron, if we got a song. He said, who would you guys, I said, Paul Williams, we just worked together, he's fantastic. He said, great. So we wrote a song, and I made a demo, a proper demo, with singers and band, and I brought it into Aaron's office for him to hear the demo, and I walked in, he kind of rubbed his two hands together like, and sang gleefully, oh boy, would you bring me? And I walked in, he kind of, rubbed his two hands together like it,

saying gleefully, oh boy, would you bring me? Because I'd worked with him before. I said, I think we have a good song, Aaron. So, do you have a tape machine I could play the demo? And he looked around the room and he said, no, we don't have a tape machine here. I said, oh, okay, no. Why would they have a tape machine?

I said, no. The television producer's office. I said, no problem, a cassette machine. I said no. The television producer's office. I said no problem. A cassette machine. I brought a, I came prepared. I said a cassette machine would be fine. Got on the horn with the secretary. And he said could you bring in a cassette machine?

She said I'll have to find one. She came back a few minutes later and said I'm sorry Mr. Spelling, there's no cassette machine. So I said look Aaron, we're on the lot of 20 Century Foxes, pianos all over. I used to go to Mel Brooks' office sometimes to play songs for Goldie Horn for that movie that I did with the Dutchess and the Dirtwater Fox. Good movie. And I wrote with Sammy Kahn.

And I said, so there's pianos all over. So he said, all right, let me check up my second. And she came back a few minutes later and said, I'm sorry, Mr. Spelman, there's no pianos available. So I look at him and I, I'm sorry, Mr. Spelman, there's no pianos available. We're going to want. So I look at him and I kind of shrug my shoulder, where do we go now?

And he looked at me and I said, all right, Aaron, here goes. Love, exciting and new, from aboard. We all welcome you, the love boat. And that's how I sang this song. Wow. I could tell it snapping my fingers. We all welcome you the love boat and that's how I You sold it with no music and you know what he said like it Talk about working with Paul Paul's been on this show, we all adore him.

We were talking about him outside. You did One on One first, the Robbie Benson movie. We did a bunch of songs for One on One. Paul's wonderful, I love Paul. He's a gent. I love him as a creative person. I told you, I think before, I was a fan of his before we ever got to work together.

We're good friends, and I love him, and we have fun working together. And actually, I'll just cut to tomorrow. Tomorrow, not literally, but we have written a new song together for a movie coming out. It'll be out in October. It's an HBO picture. Exciting.

But it'll be in theaters first. And it's a picture, it's a documentary picture called The Bronx, USA. And we wrote a song called The Bronx. And Robert Klein sang it. He sang it, he's in the picture. Interviews, a lot of people from The Bronx, including me, including Colin Powell, by the way,

from The Bronx and other people. And then we needed, Paul wrote a rap lyric that I asked him to do, and it was great. And we got Donald Weber Jr., who right now, who right now is playing Burr in Hamilton. But he actually, he was Hamilton on Broadway here for a while. And then I said I also need a background group like the Four Seasons, Frankie Valli's group. And anyway, we ended up with the cast of...

Hamilton. No. Oh. Jersey Boys. I said I need a group like the Jersey Boys. Right, I was still on Hamilton. Yeah. So we got the four guys from Jersey Boys.

So they sang, so that's this record that we have. So then they went out to the streets of New York on the east side, Bronx, and they shot all the people and the singers and everything on the streets of the Bronx and it's a lot of fun. So that's the opening of the movie and the end of the movie, the song we wrote, Bronx, we had everyone, the whole cast on stage with the band, with myself at the piano playing this as an end title. So Paul and I are very excited about this. Great that you guys are working together. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah when when he was on the show

I was singing his songs to him in his voice in his voice. Yes Why are there so many songs about Rimbaud? Doing a ball impression to ball. I Love those songs. I mean I love those songs. I mean, not only we've only just begun, but even some of the lesser-known ones, like, won't last a day without you. I don't know how lesser-known that is. It's a big hit song. We had a hit together that called My Fair Share. Yes, Seals and Crofts. The one I always liked of his, and I sang it to him there, was Nice to Be Around.

Nice to Be around from Cinderella Liberty Yeah, that was a beautiful song. That was a John Williams music. Yeah, yeah but we started to work together been friends ever since and we He's great he's a giant yeah, he really is not only that but you know, he's the president of ASCAP Yep, and there's a lot for songwriters, we should point that out. And very nice. He's done a lot for songwriters for music.

Absolutely. He came to the screening of my documentary and afterwards he threw his arms around me and said, I love you even more, no. Ah. And he took us to a nice lunch. Yes, yeah. You, me and Dara.

Terrific guy. Let's talk about Norman, your collaborations with Norman Gimble and these three wonderful songs that charted. The Crochie song, I Got a Name, and also Killing Me Softly, which we have to talk about. Jim Crochie's song, we did a picture called The Last American Hero with Jeff Bridges. Yeah, I know the picture. And we wrote the song, and we were kind of late in getting the song going with the film,

and so over the phone we called Jim Croce, which is kind of unusual, usually send a demo. We called him and he heard the song over the phone and said he would sing it. So I got his key, I still haven't met him, I got his key by listening to his record. He had a new song coming up on the charts called Operator. Sure.

And he was a new, really not that well-known singer yet, before any of his hits. Operator just coming up on the charts. And we thought his voice not only matched our song, but matched the character, Jeff Bridges' character, the film. So I got his key by I just listened to some of his records. I made a big record, an orchestral back on strings and everything at

20th Century Fox Soundstage in Hollywood and I brought it with me to work with Jim and when I got to meet him for the first time in his producer's office he said, let me hear that song right. I only heard it on the phone. I knew I'd have to sing it. So I played the song and I sang it for him and he was touched and he said he knew he'd have to do the song because he knew it reminded him of his father who died before fulfilling his own dreams. He said, can I play a song for you? I said sure. So he played a new song he had just written called I Have to Say I Love You in a Song. Love that one. So he played a new song he had just written called, I have to say I love you and his song. Love that one.

So that's, I always look back on that relationship, two songwriters. Yeah, that's nice. Writing a song for each other. Many years later, I'll tell you another story. Many years later, Lena Horne was doing her Broadway show, Lena Horne Broadway. And Alan Bergman one day said to me, a great songwriter and a friend to friend he said if you want to hear a great version of that song I got a name she goes to New York and see Lena well I couldn't do that but then she came out to California I saw her there and she came out she started singing you know Stormy Weatherhook signature number She sang about a minute of that,

and then she went right into I Got a Name. And she did her own interpretation, her own style, and it was fantastic, and she started talking about her father in the song, and about him. It just got all revved up, and the audience reacted to her by cheering her, got up and cheering, in the middle of the second, myself included. So I didn't know Lena Horne then, so I didn't go backstage and plan to do that.

But the next day I sent her a bouquet of flowers and I sent it from a grateful composer. Oh nice. And she sent me back a letter which I can pretty well quote because I have it framed. It's in the book. It's in the book, yeah. Actually I think it's in the book. And it basically says to the composer my favorite song Thank you for writing my favorite song

You don't know how much mean has for me because every time I sing and I think of my father Isn't that something so that's the interest and actually people connected to it that way. It's interesting. Yes, and a lot of people there. Yeah Connected through through and and I've seen him many times since Yeah, yeah connected through through and and I've seen him many times since Roche was a big talent and of course left us early. Yeah, he died way way way too young He was such a I love those songs a rapid Roy the stock we talk about how people don't write story songs anymore He wrote stories a lot of story songs rapid Roy that stock car boy Of course, you don't mess around with Jim bad bad Leroy Brown Yeah, and the love songs that he wrote.

Tommy the Battle doesn't get any more beautiful than you. Great, I have to say I love you and the song is beautiful. And Frank and I were talking about how Roberta Flack came to sing that. She was flying from Los Angeles to New York. And you know those days, 1972, 73, people didn't carry Walkman, didn't have their own music CDs and MP3s that we have now. So we had this record that was programmed on American Airlines.

And Roberta was with that song, and she was flying from Los Angeles, she had just done a concert with Quincy Jones. She was flying home, and she heard that song, and she's a real musician, Roberta. She took a pencil and paper and started to write notes and the lyrics. She got to New York. She said she listened to it a few times.

She called Quincy Jones and said, Quincy, how do I meet Charles Fox? So Quincy called me. She called me, actually. And Quincy gave him numbers of mine where to reach me, and one day I was walking through the Paramount Music Library, and someone had to be on the telephone and said, here this is for you, and I can still remember it in my ear

because Roberta Flack said I didn't, she had just won the Grammy Award for best record, best song. Oh, first time ever I saw your face. And she said, hi, this is Roberta Flack, we haven't met the first time ever I saw your face. And she said, hi, this is Roberta Flack, and we haven't met, but I'm going to sing your songs. And I had to take this phone away from me, or look at the phone, am I really hearing this right? Anyway, so we met in Quincy Jones' office when she came out to California, and that was the start of it. Yeah. And it's fun, they used

the song in About a Boy, and it. They use the, they use the song in, uh, about a boy. And it was funny, the way they use it gets back to what we were talking about before. Like the whole thing is, no, he can't sing that. It'll be embarrassing. They'll beat him up. They'll laugh at him. That's, and then when he's singing it, it looks like, oh, this is pathetic. And then when Hugh Grant joins him and does the backup, you go, wow, this is really nice.

You know, it was a fun performance of that. We've had probably about 2,000 people record this. How about that? I was reading an interview with the director of that movie and he said he chose the song because they needed a song that was so Nakedly vulnerable or so emotionally open that that that kids could make fun of him for singing it But it also had to be a song that when you really listen to it was cool It had to so speaking about that the Quentin Tarantino made a movie that he used I got a name in a couple of years ago I can't think of the name, but it was a cowboy picture. Was it Django on Change? Django on Change. And there's a whole moment, like a two minute where Django meets the other

guy, I forget the situation, and the two go riding off together to be partners. And he scored the whole scene with Jim Croce singing that song. And I didn't know it, no one called me to tell me that. They don't call you, I was going to ask you, they don't call you to get the permission, the blessing? Sometimes, sometimes. Well, they do with that. They don't call you, I was going to ask you, they don't call you to get the permission, the blessing? Sometimes, sometimes. Well, they do a certain song, Kill Me Softly, yes. So I saw Quentin Tarantino at the Oscars that year, and I went over to say hello and to

introduce myself because I never met him, and I thanked him for doing it. I said, I love the way he used my song. He said, oh, that's your song. He said, you know, I found that song listening on YouTube with you singing. Oh, that's right, that's your song. He said, you know, I found that song listening on YouTube with you singing. Oh, that's right. That clip's online. So I said, well, you made a smart move

by getting Jim Croce and not me. But here's the nice thing. I said, you know what? I was going to send you a note to tell you how much I liked you using my song in that picture. He said, if you send me the notes still, I'll keep it. How about that? That's something I wrote a little bit of, yeah.

How about that? Quentin Tarantino. Yeah. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal podcast after this. This episode is brought to you by FX's The Bear on Disney+. In season three, Carmy and his crew

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right here, from our largest shrimp skewers ever to a Vietnamese inspired dish ready in minutes, PC makes any culinary adventure and on budget breeze. I got a quick question about, and we jump all over the place, but the Charles Fox singers, since we were talking about Love American Style, it started out with the Cowshills. Started off with the Cowshills, they'd sang Love American Style for me. The second year Paramount asked me to replace them because of business arrangement, whatever that was.

Those days there was the Henry Mancini singers. Right, so you decided they were the... So someone said, well, I wasn't ever decided. Someone said, what should we call the group? You can call them tomorrow, I don't know. So I said, we need a name. He said, well, you had the councils, give it a name. Give it your name.

So I said, okay, Charles Fuck Singers. But the truth is is there was no Charles His group his group they did most of my little digging and they yeah and Never take anything away from anyone, you know Ron is great. His singers are great They did most of my shows Wonder Woman all those sure Laverne Shirley were great. They did most of my shows, Wonder Woman, all those things. Sure. Laverne and Shirley. No, Laverne and Shirley, they didn't do that. That was Cindy Greco. See, I promise I won't sing these songs.

It's too late for that, I promise. We're way beyond that now. If we could hear a snippet of some of these great like love American style love love love love love love love American style true within the red red and blue love American style that's me and you and then Sunday, Monday, happy days Tuesday, Wednesday, happy days Thursday, Friday, happy days Saturday, what a day Rockin' all week with you and them Give us any chance, we'll take it

Read us any rule or break it We're gonna make our dreams come true Wonder Woman! Wonder Woman! The love of... Anyway. Fantastic! My God!

I love the way they just go right, flow right into each other. Well, I just did that. It doesn't usually, you know. Oh my! I didn't sing the love, I just said the word but anyway. Fantastic. That was great. You know I got a question here Charles this is I asked a couple of musicians I said friends of mine I said do you have questions for Charles Fox and my friend Shark who's a musician in Los Angeles said ask him please ask him if he ever was rushed and wrote something five minutes before he had to play it for the producer or a creator of a show Most of them were that way

You know what just come up right on the spot, you know honestly Hollywood works that way you know you don't get a whole lot of extra time to do things Not quite not quite that. But the truth is you always get up and have to do the work and show it off and present it in a nice light and all that. And to tell you the truth, with all my movies, I always like to play the whole score for people at the piano.

And the director comes to my house and I played the entire, I did a movie with Arnold Schwarzenegger. The only movie ever directed. Oh, Christmas in Connecticut, right? Yeah. And when I went to work with him, when I met him the first time I went to his office, and he said, you know, I'm not going to imitate his voice, you all know how he sounds. He said, you know, I never work with music. I don't know how to work with music. I said, that's great.

I said, let's talk about the picture. Let me worry about the notes. So that made it easier for him. Then he came to my house and I played the score for him at the piano and he got it and he became real astute. He was really smart in terms of hearing things and knowing when music, where it would help, where it wouldn't.

But I mean, there's always a challenge, but it's simply what I do. I've heard you say one of the thrills of your career is sitting in the theater for the first time and hearing the score or the music come up full and watching everything. Well, not even full. You know, I went to the dubbing sessions of every one of my movies because it wasn't just enough to write the music. I had to get it into the picture at the right level. Could've been loud, could've been as soft as anything. It was a moment, it's a matter of enhancing the moment

of the undercut of the story to what you're trying to bring out, the emotional qualities, the dramatic qualities even. And I always felt that if, and directors expected me to do that, so I used to go and sit right next to the music mixer on the dubbing stage. And very often I'd move the dials myself, you know,

the faders. And so then when it's finally finished, by the way, I didn't always get my way. Sometimes the director wanted a lot of sound effects that would wipe out the music. But I mean, it's a collaborative business, and the director has the final say. It's just that simple. So you work with the director. Of course. And when I sit in the theater, but I mean it's a collaborative business and the director has the final say. It's just that simple. So you work with the director. Of course. And when I sit in the

theater and hear everything's just to the right level, whether it had to be full screened or little oboe behind a delicate moment, yes, it's very satisfying for me. And I'm going to ask you, who were your favorite? We talked about Neil Hefty, Henry Mancini, you were friends with the great Jerry Goldsmith. Were we your favorite composers? Well Jerry was certainly one of my favorites, fantastic composer, and a good friend of mine. We love those scores. Omen, Out of the Apes. So I will tell you that when Jerry was sick near the end when he was still functioning, but he was ill.

And he had two concerts, I conducted from time to time, not on his recording sessions, but in concerts. He asked me to do a concert for him. At one time I was busy finishing one of my ballets, my Zorro ballet, and he called me and he said he had two concerts coming up, one in England and one in Japan. He loved working at the London Symphony, LSO.

And he said he didn't think he could do both that and Japanese concerts, would I do the Japanese concert for him? So I couldn't say no to Jerry, so I said of course I would. So in the daytime I was writing my music, orchestrating my music at that point. And the evening I was studying his scores. So when I stand in front of a 100 piece orchestra.

How about that? I know what the music is. So we actually did the first time ever episode, Suite of the Omen, had a 100 voice chorus. Wow. I had, you know, and it was the first time it was ever put together and I conducted it in Japan with the Kanagawa Philharmonic in Tokyo and in Yokohama. So he would certainly be on the short list of your favorite film composers.

I think he's one of the greatest composers ever. And I always say about Jerry, he was, he's a great film composer, but more than Jerry, he was a great film composer, but more than great, he was a great American composer who devoted his life to film. John Williams, a fantastic composer. You know, there are a lot of, Michael Chikino, a young composer. He's been on this show.

Has he? Yes, he has. He's a nice guy. He's a good friend to me. Yes, he's. And a charming guy, and he's a lot of talent. I told him you were coming on. Did you?

Yes, I did. One thing I always think about whenever there's a composer is it's the sign of a bad composer and a bad director for that matter. When music comes on and I find myself going, okay, I'm supposed to be sad now. I'm supposed to be invigorated. Do you find yourself going, okay I got to work against certain... Sometimes you do. Sometimes you play against what's on the scene. Sure there can be a happy scene between two people talking, but really what she's thinking

about is something else. A little bit of underneath the skin, you know, she's thinking about a moment they had. So you have that control as a composer. You certainly want to play a design. You have a design for how you're going to treat the music. And you usually go through it with the director. And it's a very collaborative thing. But there are certainly times that you want to play

against the film. If it's a happy moment, you may play sad. If it's a sad moment, you may play it up. It's all a matter of what you're trying to let the audience understand the feel at that moment as part of the grand design of the film. And, I mean, I did a film, a television film once with a great director, Lamont Johnson. And it was about a woman who had 200 names,

200 alter egos. And she had suffered heart disease. A child that didn't know that she was, it was called 100, 200 voices or something like that. Thousand voices, something. A true story. And the director said to me, now you know, I want to be very simple

because this woman has these noises in her head and So just not much music and very sparse very simple and I went ahead and I wrote the most busy score I've ever written my whole life and he came up to my side. I think I did most of the synthesizer So in my studio and he came to my house and I said Lamont I wrote some of the busiest music ever what I said, but what I played, I played what is in her head. So I wasn't playing what the audience reaction was. I played what this woman was hearing in her head. Interesting. And he loved it.

So you have to take a chance. Of course. Do what you think is right, you know. I also found it interesting that you don't like TV theme songs that explain the show. You prefer something that sets a tone or creates a context. Right. So I did a show called The Paper Chase with Jon Housman.

And when I went to do the show with him, Jon Housman said, so I'm going to start the show with narration. It was like the movie The Paper Chase. I'm going to start it with narration where. It was like the movie, The Paper Chase. I'm going to start it with narration where I talk about the kids coming to school and they're going to learn this, they're going to learn that. And they come from different countries,

different parts of the United States, and I'm going to make a lawyer out of you. They said, what do you think about putting music behind that? I said, the main title, you absolutely should have music behind it. He said, okay. I said, as a matter of fact, I have an idea.

Since it's the same narration over and over, I don't want to tell him it's boring, but since it's the same narration over and over, it's the same story every week. I said, why don't we start with the narration and then we'll go into a song explaining just those feelings, about the feelings of doing something new in your life,

something frightening, something exhilarating, what it's like to be a first year law student. And then we'll see the kids get on buses and trains coming to Harvard, and when they go into the huge auditorium where you're speaking, we'll cut back to you and your narration. And he waited to beat and he said, you want to cut out my narration?

I said, well, you you know the song would would really work better anyway we ended up with a song as I wrote it and I actually have all my shows it was the only one that was got a lot of awards and nominations uh-huh myself included but it less than one year it didn't yeah but then it went to syndication and he took over and he went back to his narration. Oh, he changed it in syndication. I was thinking, and for one of our short episodes, we should do all the shows that had theme songs telling the story. All the Sherwood shorts theme songs.

I didn't want to say that, but that's true. Yeah, they all would explain the show. Every Millenboyette was also like that. There were a handful's true. Yeah, they all would explain the show. Every Miller boy yet, where it's also like that. There were a handful of them. Yeah. Well, I work with Tom Miller and Tom, and those guys are great.

I did a song, a show with them, they pretend to be the Hogan family. Yeah, sure. And I wrote a song that Roberta Flex sang for me. Right. Yeah. That's a good one. I'll tell you a song I love

is the one from the other side of the mountain. Richard's Window. Richard's Window. Beautiful. Thank you. We were nominated for that song. Beautiful piece of music. Yeah. And a good film.

It was a very good film. Well, again, Larry Pearce directed it and my good friend Ed Feldman was the producer. People should see it. I'll tell you a couple things, if I may, if you want to know about the answer. Please do. Yes. Yes. So I did one of the most,

I do a lot of very things as you know. One of the things I did is very exciting to me recently. I started off my career in Latin music, you may know that. I played my- You were Carlos Zorro. I was Carlos Zorro. I was Carlos Zorro. I want to really honestly,

I want to get accepted by the Latin people. We got to kick out of that. So I found out they thought I was okay anyway, didn't have to take the Spanish name, but I did go by that for a while. But I played at Tito Puente, I played at Ray Barreto and people like that. So last year I decided after 50 years of not playing Latin music, I want to make another Latin record. Fantastic.

So I was going to record some of the great musicians in New York and LA and maybe Puerto Rico and Cuba and a friend of mine who's Edesio Alejandro is a great Cuban composer and I told him about that he mentioned it to the Minister of Culture of Cuba and I was invited, the Cuban Minister of Culture invited me to come over to Havana to do concerts. invited the Cuban Minister of Culture to come over to Havana to do concerts. So last summer I did two concerts at the opera house with all the fantastic Cuban musicians. Omar Portanto from the Buena Vista Social Club sang. Yeah, I love that movie. She sang with me in my concert. And we had 2,000 people each night and I was back in

my... How nice. thousand people each night and I was back in my happy place just playing latin music, all my songs and actually it's being made into a film, it's being cut into a motion picture, a documentary film, this trip to Cable. Wow, you got a lot going on. It's something I'm really happy about and proud about. What else do you want to plug the fulfillment fund and songs of our lives, you still involved with that? The fulfillment fund is a fantastic organization, mostly in California. A good

friend of mine, Gary Gitnik, started about 33, 34 years ago. It's an organization that helps about 2,500 young students a year from the most disadvantaged parts of Los Angeles and some other places too. It gives them an opportunity to help them through high school into colleges with all kinds of support, scholarships. Yeah, yeah. So, about 10 years ago, Gary asked me if, oh, I know, my wife Joan became a co-president of the Friends of the Fulfillment Fund, a self-auxiliary group, ancillary group. And she asked me if I would do a little concert in someone's house when I just play some of

my songs and maybe they'd raise some money. So we did, we raised quite a bit of money. We raised $100,000 something in someone's house, people promising money. And Gary Gitnik was not a musician, but he didn't waste a beat and say, what can we do next year? So I started doing concerts of friends who were songwriters. It's an impressive list. We had everyone.

I'm telling you, what I wouldn't have given to see some of those concerts. I'll tell you, here's where we had the very first year. First of all, Barry Mann and Cynthia Wild. We had Leroy Stoller. Oh, great. Melissa Manchester, Bill Withers, Steve Torrell singing. Sadaka did it, didn't he?

Hal David singing and Alan Bergman. This is only the first concert. Amazing. So we've done 10 years where I had Bach, Rach and I'll speak. I saw the list today. Staggering. Yeah, we did. And of course we raised a lot of money for this group so Charles Fox is

The what's the give us the website too so people can go there and look at your stuff Well, it's Charles Fox music Charles Fox music calm you've got this HBO thing happening You won't you won't see yet, but a show that I've just completed We're working on now with Norman Steinberg your friend. We love Norman Yeah, I did you we did it. We did a musical based on an 18th century place called school for scandal and We're just now taking meetings that we've completed it and with Arthur Hamilton who was my collaborator who wrote Cry Me a River and We're here to begin getting to theaters. We hope to move it to Broadway. It's great. You're busy And we want to thank I just want to thank two people to Krista Rose who helped with the research and our friend

Jared O'Connell who set up this wonderful keyboard. Well, thank you. It was fun to play and I see all your notes is very impressive Believe me, I'll never forget your singing my songs And you're not off the hook yet not yet Charles, we need to... And believe me, I'll never forget you singing my songs. That was a... That touched me. And you're not off the hook yet. Not yet, no. Because this is the end of the show. Yeah. Why don't we let Charles do one by himself?

Oh! Song? Yeah! Yes! Yes! Yeah, surprise us. I'm going to play a little bit of the piano. So So Beautiful. Thank you. What a special treat this episode was. This was amazing.

This may be my new favorite episode out of 250, Charles. This was amazing. Look at that. Look at that. You look at your- Oh, I love it. Your grateful audience here on the other side of the glass. Well, first of all, thank you guys. You know too much about me.

It's just that simple. Well, listen- But I appreciate it. You guys are great. I had a good time myself. With this plenty we didn't even get to. We didn't get to Marcel Marceau and Fred Astaire. You have to come back. You'll have to come back. We'll come back.

And invite me back again. I'll come back with Norman. And I got to put you on the spot again at the end of Zack. Uh-oh. They had a song ready to get what you got if you, you know. Someone asked me to play that I can't remember that for life. Okay, here, here. You're going to sing it?

You can fake it. I know it's sort of bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum. Someone's playing tricks on me. Where is that quiet kid I used to be not long ago you could cut this you are amazing I don't remember that I honestly don't remember that you know it's funny one night we're in the theater years ago and there's another Brooks movie I think it's Albert Brooks and he was with the girl and he went back to her house or she went back to

His house and and they and they find that they're both into theme songs And he said really I love theme songs and and he said what's your favorite and he starts to play the bugaloo's There's a Sid Marty Croft show of course I forgot that I broke that And I turned to my wife and they're singing the bugaloo's about on the air and everywhere and I turned to my wife and they're singing the bugaloos about on the air and everywhere And I turned tomorrow off and I said That's great and then on the screen credit You know, I've written a lot of stuff you should all forget it We got somebody else we got to get on the show. So we're gonna we're gonna go. Oh, yeah, we're gonna

Farewell here I am. Take a look at me we gotta get on the show. So we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna bid Charles a fond farewell. Here I am, take a look at me. I'm Isaac Kite and I'm twice as free like a dream. That was meant to be. This time I'm fine and I'm ready to get what you got. If you're ready or not, ready to get what you got. If you're ready or not you're gonna you're gonna come back you're gonna memorize that song and you're gonna learn that song.

We have to learn that. Thanks for reviving it anyway. Gilbert you gotta go straight to the Philippines with that. Yes, yes. Guys I had a lot of fun. Thank you Charles. This is a real treat for us. This has been terrific, terrific and and, this has been Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal podcast with my co-host, Frank Santopadre, and a guy who composed pretty much everything. Pretty much. Charlie Fox. Thank you guys. A great pleasure. Thanks for inviting me back again. We will. Absolutely.

We will. You bet. And I carry it with me like my daddy did. But I'm living the dream that he kept here. Moving me down the highway, rolling me down the highway. Moving ahead so life won't pass me by Like an orphan whistling down the sky I've got a song, I've got a song

Like a will for will and the beavers cry I've got a song I've got a song And I carry it with me and I sing it loud If it gets me nowhere, I'd go there proud Moving me down the highway, rolling me down the highway Moving ahead so life won't pass me by And I'm gonna go there free Like a fool I am and I'll always be

I've got a dream I've got a dream They can change their minds but they can't change me I've got a dream I've got a dream, I've got a dream I know I could share it if you want me to If you're going my way, I'll go with you Bend me down the highway, don't let me down the highway

Moving ahead's a won't pass me by Moving me down the highway Moving ahead so life won't pass me by You