Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - GGACP Classic: John Sebastian

Episode Date: March 16, 2023

GGACP celebrates the birthday (March 17) of Rock ‘n’ Roll Hall of Famer and The Lovin' Spoonful founder John Sebastian by revisiting this in-depth interview from 2020. In this episode, John entertains Gilbert and Frank with anecdotes about Cass Elliott, Jimi Hendrix, Keith Moon and Jim Morrison and reveals the stories and inspirations behind hits like "Daydream," "Summer in the City," and "Do You Believe in Magic." Also, Groucho co-hosts "Music Scene," Richard Pryor plays the Cafe Au Go Go, Art Garfunkel nails a Spoonful cover version and John composes a classic sitcom theme. PLUS: Vivian Vance! "What's Up, Tiger Lily?" The legend of Zal Yanovsky! John plays Woodstock! Boris Karloff plays Captain Hook! And Ed Sullivan introduces the "American Beatles"! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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a million delicious instant prizes and a grand prize of 25 000 play at games.circlek.com or at participating Circle K stores. Good enough for something so fantastic So here's another Gilbert and Franks Colossal Podcast with my co-host Frank Santopadre. Our guest this week is a musician, recording artist, soundtrack composer, Broadway composer, children's book author, TV presenter, and one of the most admired and accomplished singer-songwriters of the last six decades as the lead singer of one of the founding members of the iconic 1960s pop rock group the love and spoonful he sold millions of records appeared on dozens of television shows played to sold-out venues and even influenced artists like Paul McCartney, John Mellencamp, and Brian Wilson, to name a few. You know his famous compositions by heart.

Daydream, Do You Believe in Magic, You Didn't Have to Be So Nice, Darling Come Home Soon, Did You Ever Have to Make Up Your Mind, Nashville Cats, Welcome Back, and the chart-topping number one hit song, Summer in the City. He's collaborated with filmmakers like Woody Allen and Francis Ford Coppola, and worked with a who's who of music icons, including Cass Elliott, Crosby, Stills, and Nash, Paul Simon, the Everly Brothers, the Doors, Gordon Lightfoot, Jimi Hendrix, and Bob Dylan. And his timeless tunes have been covered from everyone,

from Joe Cocker to Bobby Darin to Dolly Parton to Johnny Cash to Elvis Costello. He was inducted into the Songwriters Hall of Fame in 2008. And in the year 2000, along with his loving spoonful of bandmates, he was deservedly inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. He's got a new album and a new documentary in the works, which he'll tell us about. Also, did I neglect to mention that Frank was especially delighted to learn that he was Italian. That's right. That's right, man. And had I known that John Sebastian was a fucking guinea,

I would have canceled the interview. But we're thrilled to welcome to this show a folk and pop music ambassador, a genuine bona fide rock star, and our only guest who could say he knew Timothy Leary, Jim Morrison, and Vivian Banks. The pride of Washington Square West, the legendary John Sebastian. What an intro, my God. Hey, John. Wonderful. Okay, so what do you want to talk about, you goddamn what?

I think first we should talk about my association with Jews. Because here's the thing. My first band, the Even Doesn't Jug band, here's the guys in that band. Stefan Grossman, David Grissman, Peter Siegel, Steve Katz, David Grissman, Peter Siegel, Steve Katz, Danny Laufer, Josh Rivkin, Bobby Gerland, and then Maria D'Amato and Johnny Pugliese. That's me and Maria Mulder before she changed her name. That's right.

Maria Mulder. Midnight at the Oasis, Gil. Oh, geez. Yes. Yep, yep, yep. And so, okay, so you've been associated with Jews. Yeah. And you also, oh, before I get to this other one,

I've heard rumors about it, but I don't really know for sure. And you'll straighten it out. Where the name The Lovin name the loving spoonful comes from uh it comes from a song by mississippi john hurt the song was coffee blues and uh he would he would do the tune every night and and carefully conceal from the little white kids that this was a song about cunnilingus. There you go, Gil. Because you know the old rumor that you

heat up a heroin in a spoon. Right. Yeah, that was wrong. So it's not heroin, it's cunnilingus. Yes, that's the move. So Steely Dan has nothing on the love and spoonful. Oh, no.

As far as its name, the connotation. Oh, that's right. Yeah, great stuff. Tell us about growing up. John, you and I talked on the phone, and you grew up here in the village. We love having New Yorkers on this show. You grew up, when you moved into the here in the village. We love having New Yorkers on this show. You grew up, when you moved into the building in the village,

Eleanor Roosevelt was living across the hallway? I mean, we had a whole lifetime as poor people on Bank Street. Yeah, don't want to misguide you here. But then eventually, I don't't know dad somehow charmed his way into the 15th floor of washington square west and across the hall was eleanor roosevelt how about that yeah and and now i guess i can do away with the questions uh How did you get into show business? And were any other members of your family in show business? It's ridiculous because, as I think you already know, my dad was the greatest classical harmonica player that's ever lived.

Indeed. But he was also, also like a good cook. So what had happened? He'd all of a sudden be, you know, we'd be having dinner with Max and Sonja Liebman, for example, you know, your show of shows. And I'd be sitting there. I'm like eight.

I don't know any of these people. And Max Liebman is complaining about Melvin. It takes me, I have to wait 30 years to go, oh, now I know who Melvin was. Max Liebman was complaining about young Melvin Kaminsky? About Mel Brooks, yeah. About that, Gil. Wow. But everybody came through that house. It was no no that was that and uh yeah tell us about your mother too yeah uh mom uh it came to New York

originally from Dayton but she had had this kind of like a Tina Fey life. At 16, she was already writing shows for radio in Dayton. Then she gets the big job, moves to the big town, Cincinnati. And she's there for a while. But then by 18, she's drafted to NBC in New York. Wow. So the only way that her dad would let her go is if he came along. So my grandfather was her roommate the first year or so when she was in New York.

But she was writing funny for radio and filling in wherever need be. You know, sometimes a singer wouldn't show up. She could fill in. She was an incredible singer. So I kind of came at this all around the corner. By the time I knew what was going on my mom was big pals with vivian vance who became your god kind of come up uh from the midwest together and and uh had this real tight friendship and uh viv would very often use mom as a writer when she needed to punch up some stories uh for jack parr how about this skill and and now we all remember

for those who don't remember vivian vance which is shame on you. Yes, shame on you. She was like played the best friend of Lucille Ball. That's right. Ethel Mertz. Yes. She's also in one of my favorite movies, John. She's in The Great Race. Yeah. And you know, she wasn't nearly as unpleasant looking

as they had her in that show. This is one of the things that always struck me as a, you know, I'm, I'm a little kid and I'd see the show and then here would come Viv and Viv looks fabulous. You know, it's just a very different, uh, a very different person that I was seeing than the folks who watch television. And I heard that, did Lucy want her to get fat? Or at least dress her fat? I have no real inside info on that, but I did hear that, that it was in her contract,

that she couldn't drop below a certain weight. That's interesting. Oh, man. Duff, that show business thing, it's it's tough so she couldn't look better than lucy is i guess not so they're going you know they're also working summer stock and i actually did that thing of the you know the baby that's in the that's in the uh. That was an amazing period. I have recently played several of the venues that Aunt Viv used to play.

So, John, those guys that were hanging around, obviously the Gaslight Cafe, most of those great clubs are gone. I think Cafe Wah might be the only thing left. Yeah, I think so. I think Figaro is gone and thing left. Yeah, I think so. Figaro is gone and so many of those wonderful places. That's

right. Did you, I mean, you were obviously immersed in that world and immersed in that scene. I always think of a guy like you and I see the Coen Brothers movie, Inside Llewyn Davis. Oh, that was so fucked up. So? They didn't know their ass

from a hole in the ground. Tell us why. Oh, Jesus. You know, first of all, I mean, some of the obvious stuff. Like, you know, when Bob Dylan came in and sang

the famous three songs that just, like just put everybody away. The attitude wasn't to somehow be better or anything. It was just his natural skills coming through. There were so many things. They had Van Ronk, a completely wrong character. Van Ronk was, first of all, didn't put up with any shit at all, and then also was this super sensitive guy.

And then also was this super sensitive guy. I mean, it was a complex acting job that somebody didn't take on. I see. So artistic license. Wow. You know who was great in that movie, though? Seriously. The guys who did the design work that made it old McDougal Street,

they were just a couple of things where I went, wow, they went to some trouble. Gil, do you think you played some of those joints in the day? We know you couldn't remember the first place you played. Might it have been the bitter end? Yeah, I worked the Bitter End. I think that was the one, the Other End. Yeah, the Other End was the place. Yeah, I worked the Bitter End, Other End. Then I think, I don't know if that place is still standing.

That was across the street from the Bitter End. It was a big... Did you play the Night Owl, Kittle? Yeah, that was the Cafe a Go-Go. Cafe a Go-Go. That is gone. That's gone. But, you know, the Spoonful was playing the Night Owl

until we got fired from there, and then we're working the Cafe Bazaar, which is an even, like, wow, what a sorry-ass club. This is a club where there aren't even any villagers in this club. The only people that come to this club are bussed in from Midtown, and they're all people from Dayton. They're there to see the beatniks. And literally, at that time, you know, we had guys called the drag.

And the drag was the guy that pulled the people in off the street. Come in. See the beatniks. You know, see, you know. It was so odd. See, you know, it was so odd. And Yanofsky would run along behind one of these tourist buses, pointing to himself, going, I'm one. I am.

I'm one. I am one. Who did you see, John? I mean, did you see Lenny Bruce? I mean, what comedians did you see? Unfortunately, no. Lenny Bruce? I mean, what comedians did you see? Unfortunately, no. Lenny Bruce, I mean, I was in tight with other people who really knew him well, like Fred Neal. Right.

But I didn't see him. But I saw, well, I saw Bill Cosby in his very earliest stages. Bill Cosby in his very earliest stages. And I saw... Did you see Richard Pryor or Carlin? So I saw Pryor when he was still doing Cosby's material. Wow. Yeah, he had no act.

How about that guy? Yeah, he had no act yet. But yes, I did see him. You mentioned the great Fred Neal, who was a Brill Building guy. Well, I guess so, somewhat, yeah. Fred Neal wrote Everybody's Talking, Gil, from Midnight Cowboy. Oh, this guy was really something. The King of McDougal Street.

Man, oh, man. Oh, this is a guy with this voice where all the waitresses said, do not get within 20 feet of that voice. You're going to take this guy home. You're not going to be able to resist. Really? Yeah, I know the feeling. Yeah.

Yeah. I get pussy like crazy with my voice. Oh my God. I tell you. He asked every rock musician we've had on this show. We've had Peter Asher, Tommy James, Kenny Loggins has been here. He always wants to know. The first thing Gilbert always wants to know about is the women and the groupies, don't you, Gil?

Yes. Just tell me about the pussy you got, John. We could skip. I don't give a fuck about Bob Dylan or Woody Guthrie. Tell me about the pussy you got. I'm so with you on this, you know. Here I was. I'm in Greenwich Village.

Like Phil Oakes on one side, Bob Dylan on the other. Am I writing a protest song? No, I'm writing about 16-year-old girls. Out of it. Out of it. How did you meet? I'm jumping ahead years here john but how did you meet zal and and uh and and join the mugwumps with cass and denny wow well it's a kind of a sequence all right first of all uh i get a job with a harry belafonte protege by the name of Valentine Pringle,

an enormous baritone who just, man, he sings those, you know, big chain gang songs and so on. So anyway, I get the gig. Let's see, we went to Toronto to play the Purple Onion. Then we started at the village gate uh and then we get a gig at the cellar door uh in washington dc and uh the op and valentine is opening for an act called the big three and the big three is cass elliott uh jim not jimmy hendrix jim hendrix yeah and tim and tim rose the guy that wrote uh uh hey joe and uh so i'm I'm coming up the stairs with Val. I've got my guitar.

I got it tuned. And here comes Cass down the stairs. She's doing Val's act. While she's coming down the stairs, she's going, See my Mary, oh, this morning in my mind. See her walking through the corn with her yellow apron on. Makes me lonely, but it's all in my mind. And Valentine was not sure how to take that. Wow.

But I fell in love. I fell in love. Cass and I just became real tight, and we were pals for several months. I think I might have played the place again the same way. And then she kept saying, oh, you've got to meet Zalman, Yanavsky. You've got to meet Zali.

And I said, great, yeah, fine. Well, it eventually happened that Cass invited me to join her to watch the Beatles on the first Ed Sullivan appearance that they made. And she said, oh, and you're going to really enjoy it because, well, Ringo's going to be here. Now, I'm going through the mechanics of this going, okay, Ringo, the Beatles are going to be on Ed Sullivan, but Ringo's going to be at Cass' house. Now, if you knew Cass, you really were kind of wondering how this might be. You weren't going, no, that's not going to happen.

You were wondering how. So it turns out, of course, I go up to her house, and it is a very, it's like a big six-footer Jewish Ringo guy. And that, of course, was Janowski. Oh, it wasn't the real Ringo. No, of course, Janowski. No, but if you look at the profile Ringo. No, Orsonovsky. No, but if you look at the profile, you've got to look at the profile. There is a common bond those two men have.

Well, they compared Zal to his Harpo Marx at various points. I heard him referred to as Harpo Marx with a guitar. It's a good facsimile it is uh you know uh we uh kind of don't we never realized zalman has never gotten his due the people that admired him you know no it wasn't the rolling stone assholes. It was the guys like Eric Clapton. You know, that's who liked Zalman. Mm-hmm. That's praise from Caesar.

So the mugwumps formed, she introduced you to Denny and Zal, and I know the mugwumps weren't a thing for very long. Yes, it was. It was very quick. It was an attempt to cash in on this Beatles idea, you know, and the only thing they didn't have was internal songwriting, internal guitar playing. I think that was about it. So it was very fast, but it happened all at the cellar door in Washington, D.C., at a time when the cellar door was very ritzy and a place where a lot of diplomats and a place where a lot of diplomats and politicians would come. And on the weekends, they would bring their children.

And that's what launched the Mugwumps, was a thing that Cass Elliott named. Cass Elliott's name now. She was the first person that ever said the word teeny bopper. Oh. Interesting. She called those shows the teeny bopper shows, and it just spread.

Did the Mugwubs take their name from Naked Lunch? No, I think they took their name from the political party. Okay. Yeah. And the Love and Spoonful got the nickname the American Beatles.

Well, you know, that happened so unexpectedly. Because, okay, we get finally our offer to play the ed sullivan show and of course we're you know we're snotty little beatniks and we're going oh man these guys you know they don't know what we're up you know they they probably have no idea they probably don't even know we're not english you know so anyway uh we're we're standing there with our instruments and ed starts to do the introduction and it's a florid

wonderful introduction explaining that these is this is the american answer to this English invasion. And I remember me and Solly are staring at each other, and I knew we were both thinking, we have to reassess what we think of Ed here, because he really jumped right in and said all the right stuff so uh yeah our hat is still off to ed sullivan and i heard that daydream uh influenced paul mccartney to write you know he was so gracious about that yeah good day sunshine yeah uh he i just loved it that that he copped to it uh he is copped to it and eric clapton copped to stealing summer in the city uh it's really funny how that oh it's all coming out now brian wilson goes oh yeah you didn't have to be so nice

what a good idea for something like good vibrations i i neglected to mention clapton in the intro as somebody somebody that you influenced but mccartney was very complimentary absolutely to you over the years there's there's footage of john lennon singing daydream at a beatles rehearsal and there's there's an image of john excuse me there's an image of John, excuse me, there's an image of Paul, you can find it on the internet, walking around with a Spoonful album in his hand. Yes.

They were fans. Yes, they were. They certainly were. And there is that recording of them trying to learn Daydream. Right. And you hear them play a couple of chords into it they've got the beat pretty good and then you hear george george always mutters you you have to get used to it and and you hear george mutter he goes john it's a minor.

That's cool. It's a minor seventh, John. And then there's this pause and you hear John go, fucking tunesmiths. That's the best compliment I ever got. Oh my god. F sharp G to F sharp F sharp F sharp F sharp

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F sharp Did George and John come to see The Spoonful in London? Yes. Yes, George and John. But I mean, that particular evening, But I mean, that particular evening, also Keith and Peter, Keith Moon and Peter Townsend, at least a couple of guys from, it was an amazing evening. There were just so many people that did show up. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing

colossal podcast, but first, a word from our sponsor. Hear that, Quarter Pounder fans? That silence is two friends enjoying the new creamy parmesan and bacon Quarter Pounder at McDonald's. Because adding crispy bacon and creamy parmesan sauce to our 100% Canadian beef makes it impossible to have a conversation. Try the new creamy parmesan and bacon Quarter P pounder today and discover how words are so unnecessary

for a limited time only at participating McDonald's restaurants in Canada. Now, here's a question. I usually wait till the end, but I want to ask it now. Yeah. I'm always amazed where, you know, I know how to write a joke. I mean, I know how to put put but where do songs come from and and believe me kill uh it's as much of a mystery to me as to anybody if i could solve that mystery come on i i wouldn't be sitting here talking to you assholes

i'd be writing more three-minute songs. Well said. Although you and I were talking on the phone, sometimes there is a hint of inspiration. I was telling you that we had the Holland Brothers on the show. Oh, so great. Tell us how they sort of factored into composing Daydream. They certainly did.

The Spoonful spent a summer as the opening act for the Supremes. And it was one of the coolest summers I ever had in my life. And we're all on this big yellow school bus. this big yellow school bus and uh uh just uh it it it was just a remarkable summer a remarkable summer and there was a moment when zalianovsky starts bugging me says you know you're you're really losing it sebastian what do you mean it goes like you've stopped writing any of the cool stuff, all the cool stuff. You're not writing that anymore. Now you're on to some, I don't know,

sensitive singer-songwriter shit or something. But, you know, you really, what the hell? You've got to write some straight-A shit. And I go straight eight shit. You mean like boom, boom, boom, boom,

baby, baby, boom, boom. Where did our love go? He says, yeah, like that.

So yeah, well, all you're asking me for is like to write a Holland dozer and Holland tune. He goes, yeah, yeah, that's pretty much it. And so it was, I don't know, a week or two later that I came up with Daydream trying to maintain this straight eight feel. I love it.

You're trying to imitate Holland Dozier Holland. I'm trying to imitate baby love. And you wind up writing a song that influences Paul to write Good Day Sunshine. I know. So we have a path here, A to B to C. It's fascinating. Absolutely. Did he wave?

Speaking of Holland, Dozier Holland, did he wave play any role in the composition of Do You Believe in Magic? Absolutely. Hold on. And the band raps his guitar. Oh, wow. See, because here's the thing. You know, Heat Wave had this thing. And so these chords

That climbed I was so fascinated by those chords That I just kept playing them I figured out a way to play them on the auto harp By retuning the auto harp And that really was the dawn of do you believe in magic how about that gil boy that's there's an old expression in the business uh steal from the best yeah Yeah, that's right.

And you didn't have to be so nice, influenced Brian. I heard it was God only knows. Well, I think it was mainly the idea that a song would have a lead voice that's going like, you know, the lead voice is, you didn't have to be so, be so nice. I would have liked you, would have liked you anyway. So like that idea of the background vocals trailing the lead vocal, I think had, might have been the core of what Brian was, uh, reacting to. Which, which Daydream cover do you like? Do you like, uh,

Bobby Darin's Art Garfunkel's Doris Day covered it? Uh, Doris Day. Uh, you, you, you really, you can't put that down, boy. Yeah. No, no. That's cool. She's easy to make fun of until, as a musician, you start to go, wow. She's always in the center of the note. Yeah. She's impressive. There are so many good versions of that. Yeah, but I have to say, for accuracy, nobody touches Art Garfunkel.

Really? Garfunkel did a version for a children's album, and it was so, so right on. And he'd go like, you know, so, Is it what a day for a daydream? Or is it what a day for a daydream or is it what a day for a daydream? You know, he would really, really take it apart. So yeah, he kills it. He's the man when it comes to daydream. I got a quick question for you, John, from a listener, because I told you we'd throw some of these at you. Sure. Paul Ekstrom, John, I adore your music. When you are composing a song, how do you know that it's not a melody you may have heard before?

Oh, don't pay any attention to that voice that's telling you. Don't listen to that voice. Yeah, that's all. Don't listen to that voice. Yeah, that's all. Finish the song and then go, how much is it like Got a Date for an Angel? Oh, it's only one note away.

I remember hearing Billy Joel in an interview say he wrote one song he was really proud of. He thought it was his best work. And then he was listening to the radio and said, oh, that's the song. Yeah. Well, Neil Sedaka said that Billy Joel, was it moving out? Or it was something where he, I think it was the opening of Neil Sedaka's Love Will Keep Us Together. And he approached Billy Joel in a restaurant

and said, you borrowed my opening for your song. I think I have that right. Speaking of covers, by the way, John, Elvis Costello's cover of Rainbows All Over Your Blues is wonderful. It is. It is.

As is his cover of a favorite Sebastian song of mine, which is The Room Nobody Lives In. That was really wonderful to have that song covered. God, I love that song. I really was glad he did that. Really, really beautiful. How does your brother Mark factor into the the composition of uh summer in the city well mark essentially did the heavy lifting i i'm kind of a uh i i'm kind of an also ran on that because what happened was my brother he comes up with the song, and it's pretty much sort of, let's see. It's a summer in the city.

You know it's going to get hot. But the shadows of the buildings are the only shady spot. But tonight it's a different world. Whoa, whoa, whoa, wait a minute. What was that? old i said whoa whoa whoa wait a minute what what was that and so anyway that that uh essentially the chorus uh was mark's and i had to uh uh fool around with it because i i felt like there it was so exciting when the thing went... These two dominant chords, one on top of the other, was so cool, but that it needed something really tense before that happened.

And that was where I sort of was mainly imitating Night on Bald Mountain. That was the really... Wow. Oh, yeah. You know, it was just the mood of that beginning of the... And to me, it was sort of like, I don't know, you know, kind of underachieving and trying to get the same effect. Not only is it a great song, it's a great record, Summer in the City. Yes, indeed. Yes, indeed.

Beautifully produced record. And I can't wait any longer. And I can't wait any longer. First, tell me about how you were asked to do the music for the movie Watch Up, Tiger Lily. Gilbert's favorite. Yes. I love it. I love it. Well, you know, that just sort of, it happened for two reasons.

That just sort of, it happened for two reasons. One was that I was very familiar with Woody Allen's act. I'd never met him, but I used to go to the Bitter End almost weekly, and he was playing there very, very regularly during that time. And I just thought this was one of the funniest things I'd ever seen. And I would ask some of my friends, especially my mom's friends. Remember, they're writers. These are funny people.

And almost to a person, they went, no, no, he's creepy. No, that's, I don't know. The guy's kind of creepy. No, that's, I don't know. The guy's kind of creepy. So it was, I used to use him as a temp, as a kind of a measuring stick of, I don't know what I was even measuring, but it was so interesting how generations separated on Woody Allen.

So anyway, I hadn't met him, but my manager was good friends with his managers. Rollins and Jaffe were kind of, they were occasionally advising our manager, Bob Cavallo, and they were all pals. And so I don't know quite, I kind of, I make this up, but the way it seems to me was like they had a movie that was all goofy and, and kind of kooky. And we don't do really kooky. We don't know kooky, but these village boys, they're kind of kooky.

We know they're kooky. So maybe we could get them to write it. Well, originally, it wasn't even called, it was originally called Pow. That's why that song Pow exists exists because originally that was going to be the title of the movie okay okay tell me when to start one two three i've always been the guy with the finger in his nose when the passport picture gets taken. That's right. When the big guy takes out the stealing chicken on the one called Hold the Bacon.

When they drop a piano from the 47th floor on the guy underneath looking up. When the tidal wave strikes 100 miles at sea, I'm out on the rail throwing up. I mean, you can't... Wee kapow! So I would have been anyhow. the rail throw it up i mean you wake up i've been waiting years to be able to sing that. To sing that. I love that song. Well, you know, I got to say that the whole reason I wrote it was to make Yanofsky laugh.

Many of the spoonful songs with funny lyrics were totally just to get Yanofsky laughing that's great yeah you know you come you come from a comedy background so you come by it naturally no I mean I used to sit with my mother late at night uh uh because she'd want to watch the the talk shows because maybe Viv had been on or something and but and she would go through and there'd be a joke and another joke and another joke and another joke with a small laugh and she'd say you see yeah he went for four what do you mean mom, you really can't. You got a subject. You got to do three jokes. You can't go four jokes. So all of this stuff was going in, and it came out in songwriting. Speaking of the spoonful and comedy, John, I got another question from a listener, Scott Mackin.

I love all your records, John. Thank you for the work. Thank you for the art. I always read that the Spoonful were approached to be the original Monkees. Yeah. What's the truth behind that? Well, it is true, but you know, I had to be reminded of this. That's how teensy it seemed to us. It really did. Oh, do you want to pretend you're a rock and roll band on television and we write the songs and and you just act and boy oh boy did that sound dreary to us so i mean really uh it i don't think it was a 10-minute conversation. You know, in retrospect, people go, oh, this must have been a big thing.

You got turned down or you didn't take the job or something. No, it was just that, well, here's one thing to do. Here's be the monkeys. No, no, that doesn't sound good. What else have you got? So it just happened in a very casual way i'm so glad interesting the road not taken speaking of comedians you worked with groucho marx very briefly uh mainly uh groucho introduced the spoonful, boy, I don't know which one of those big variety shows.

Oh, it was music scene hosted by David Steinberg. Oh, great. Yeah. There you go. And Phil Silvers also introduced the Spoonful on another one of those. Hey, Gilbert, this man has been introduced by Groucho, Phil Silvers, Ed Sullivan, Sammy Davis, and now Gilbert Gottfried.

That's big. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. And you met Boris Karloff. Unbelievable. And I was really little, too. You've got to remember now. Okay, so Aunt Viv, Vivian Vance, somehow gets us tickets to Peter Pan.

Now this isn't the Mary Martin Peter Pan. This is the Gene Arthur Peter Pan, all right? I didn't know there was a Gene Arthur Peter Pan. That was really, that was the first on Broadway, I do think. Wow. Yeah. Wow. And Captain is boris karloff and he is scary as shit and i i am watching this uh in uh you know my little five-year-old i'm being myself practically and after the the the play i thought i i later went wow viv worked this out vivian obviously had us as persona grata to go back and meet the cast well who was there was boris karloff he's still in full captain hook makeup and he has somebody has told

him my name and he leans in on me and goes hello jb and i swear to god i i thought is he still Captain Hook I can't tell I really can't tell wow Gil geez now I also see uh you were influenced by Lon Chaney Jr. well you know uh I I got fascinated uh by the time I was about 12 you know you get real ghoulish and And so then I had become fascinated by not only horror movies, but at that point, if you will recall, there were horror magazines. Yes, Famous Monsters of Filmland. Thank you. I used to get every month. And that's where you learned about how Lon Chaney had taken these little fish hooks and planted them in his mouth and run it down the side of his cheek underneath some some actors putty and then he could pull the the uh the uh the fish hooks and it would make

this horrible uh gruesome grimace and that's when when the when uh the phantom of the opera does that turn away from the organ. And, you know, that's the discover moment. And he does this thing. You don't see it because he's got this fishing hook line down his arm. And he pulls it. And that's what makes the grimace. Okay, so I hear this and I go, wow. I wonder if I could make a grimace like so so i just happened to be in my uh the garage and i noticed hey here's some putty. Well, let's take this. It's boat putty.

Okay? Boat putty. Alright. Putty for a boat. That's right. I'm putting this stuff on my face and I, oh wow, it's really working now that, making the cheekbones enormous. It really looks like it. Oh my

God. It's starting to sting. Now it's really starting to burn i i think my grandfather had to help me out with oh i mean it was it was gruesome we we had to use like uh uh paint thinner and stuff to get it off it was was horrible. Gil, I'm trying to wrap my mind around that the leader of the Love and Spoonful is a monster kid. But it sounds as if he is. Most definitely. And it got me into makeup.

So by the time I was in prep school, everybody thought I was gay. John, we've asked every musician that we've had on this show, I was telling you, you know, Peter Asher, Tommy James, Paul Williams, two things. Do you remember hearing a song, an original song on the radio for the first time? Number one. And number two, what was it like hearing a pop song with your name in it the first time you heard Creek Alley. Okay. Let's go for question number one. Yeah. What was question number one?

Hearing your song on the radio for the first time. The Spoonful had made the trip out to Los Angeles, had made the trip out to Los Angeles. And it really was some of our first visits to California or any of that, you know, any of that. And we had just rented what may have been our first rent-a-car. So we rent the rent-a renter car we're riding towards los angeles uh and uh california girls comes on the radio and we're already zolly starting to hit me this is one of the ways he would express excitement. And then the next thing that comes on is,

do you believe in magic? Whereupon Yanofsky pounces on me from the back seat, and he's hitting me relentlessly. And then he and Steve are hitting each other. And it was just like a convertible full of guys just whacking each other on the shoulder and the back. And like, so amazing to actually have it come over the radio. You knew you'd arrived, huh?

Yeah, that's right and go ahead you'll no i just i uh because you already let me sing but a song that i love of yours was for the movie you're a big boy now if i could hear some of that let's see. But you're a big boy now You know the girls They're taking notice of you They say your hair Is getting curly too So shave today

You shave tomorrow as well You'll run by you And not a classroom bell. And I don't know how, but you're a big boy now. Thank you. Thank you so much. That's a fun movie, too. It was a fun movie.

Yeah, yeah. Early Coppola picture. That's right. Tell us about Woodstock, John. You weren't scheduled to perform. You really went there to see buddies. Yeah, and this is the question that you can imagine me throwing the lasso up over the uh over the transom and

beginning to pull so that i can strangle myself and not answer another question about fucking woodstock okay well we don't have to talk about it. No, no, it's okay. It was an amazing accident, and it happened because I had heard from Paul Rothschild, the wonderful producer for me, and Janis Joplin and the Doors, that there was going to be a rather wonderful show happen somewhere in up in uh upstate new york and when they finally got it located i simply went to the airport i i i didn't have any idea how i was

going to get there but amazing amazing one of, one of the Lovin' Spoonful's roadies was road managing the incredible string band and was loading a helicopter outside the Albany airport to go to Woodstock. I gestured to him madly through a, you know, there was a big window you could look out in those days. He sees who it is and gestures, come on down onto the tarmac, which you can also do. I go around the corner to the door that opens down onto the tarmac. And I go, and he says, you're trying to get to Woodstock. I go, that's right.

He goes, this is your only chance, John. Get in this helicopter. And I did. And that I saw what you all see when you go to the movie to see that that overview yeah of like where it's all sleeping bags and tents and volkswagen buses you can't see any ground anywhere and you you wound up in you you wound up in the show quite by accident yes uh i had been having a lovely time. Now Saturday had come. I ended up on the stage.

You got to remember also that security was so different at that time. Everybody knew each other. Nobody had to hide, you know. So I would just go over and hang with various friends. And then there was a moment when I was on stage and Michael was saying, you know, we got to sweep the stage. We can't put electric acts on here. But we could just use like a guy who could hold them with one guitar. And I'm agreeing with all of this. We're all staring out at the crowd, remember? And I'm saying, yeah, yeah. And then I look around and I realize they're both looking at me.

And I say, fellas, I didn't even bring a guitar. And Michael says, well, you have a few minutes to find one. And that was my, I ran down into the sort of basement below the stage where Timmy Harden was sitting in a way relaxed mode. Great Tim Horton. Yes. I said, Timmy, well, I had been, you know, remember I'd already played with him for a couple of years.

Sure. So I could ask him, can I borrow your wonderful Harmony Sovereign? And I did. And got up there and did a little set. Were you feeling no pain during that set, Sean? I couldn't describe i i couldn't describe it as painful i i yeah no everybody acid or the purple acid you know everybody really wants

me to be more stoned than i was and i i kind of went along with it very often. Print the legend, John. So, you know, I'm a New York guy, and New York guys are cautious. And so when I got offered whatever little blue pill I was offered, I said, well, that's very nice. And I broke it up into a couple pieces, and I took a little bit. Now, remember, nobody's told me that you're going to, you know, perform before the biggest audience you've ever even seen, not even, you know.

Yeah. So I'm just glad it went as well as it did. I only forgot one verse. It's legendary, and you're in the movie. I know. And the weather started acting up when you were out there. Well, yeah, it had been acting up. And this is the part that, like, who could predict that the sun came out as I'm finishing my set?

It looked crazy good. I'm going to read you something from a fan, John, if I have a minute. This is from Carla Haler, and she is a schoolteacher. We do this thing called Grill the Guest. We tell our listeners who's coming on ahead of time. She writes, oh, my God, oh, my God. The very first concert I ever went to was John Sebastian live at the South Shore Music Circus in Cohasset, Massachusetts. He saw security trying to give the bums rush to someone, and he asked them to stop and invited all the people who were listening from up in the woods to come on down.

My brother immediately came home, got me, and we sat in the aisle as John performed The Four of Us. I love that Garth Williams, illustrator of classics like Charlotte's Web, was his godfather, and I actually own a copy of J.B.'s Harmonica, your children's book, which you wrote and Garth illustrated.

Please thank John for being a part of my life and let him know this old teacher still has a crush on him all these decades later. That's wonderful. That's wonderful. Isn't that sweet? That really is, yeah.

You've influenced generations, John. You have to tell us, this is a wild card question, Keith Moon. Yeah. We had Peter Noon on the show a couple of months ago. Remember Gil at Sirius? Yes. And Peter regaled us with some Keith Moon stories. You are on Keith Moon's only solo album.

Yes. Everybody was on that album. Ringo, our friend Howard Kalin, Joe Walsh, Dick Dale, Ricky Nelson, the great Harry Healds. Who's that? A guy you wouldn't know, Ron Koss, who is actually – I dropped Koss. Who's that? A guy you wouldn't know. Ron Koss. I dropped Koss at him.

He plays the backbeat on Welcome Back. Welcome back. Like beautifully. Because he'd worked for Motown. A Polish guy, by the way. The only other Polish guy beside the bass player that worked at Motown was Ronnie Koss. Gilbert, even a young Miguel Ferrer, the future actor, Jose Ferrer's son, is on that record. I don't quite know why.

What was your experience? I want to ask you, too, about playing with Hendrix on Timothy Leary's album, which is surreal. But first, tell us something about Keith Moon. Well, you got to remember that Keith really would tone it down for Catherine and I. He was in love with any incredibly beautiful blonde, and Catherine really fit the bill like crazy. Your wife? Yes. Yes. And so we actually went and stayed with Keith and Mrs. Moon in England when we went. And when he came to the United States,

he kind of paid me back by showing up unannounced at our little house in Laurel Canyon. Catherine and I are sort of starting to, we're sitting in front of the fireplace. We're starting to get in the mood. The door knocks. I open, I go to the door, I open open it and not only is keith standing there with a kind of a wonderful apologetic english grin but behind him is the entire shanana in. In the gold gourmet.

How bizarre. Yeah. Yeah. And just to show you what a different guy he could be, he stayed in our house and he

cooked us a beautiful Indian meal. I mean, a complex Indian meal that was really delicious. Wow. So that's one of those things. You didn't see that coming.

So you didn't see a lot of bad behavior from Keith up close? Well, it wasn't that I didn't see any, but... Okay, how about this? So the Who has gotten kicked out of every decent hotel in San Francisco, so now they're at this funky little motel, you know, where you walk outside your room and you're not in a hallway. You're on a porch, kind of. So one of the things, the qualities of that room

was that they had big picture windows that looked out on these terraces. Well, at that time, Peter Townsend was wearing these white boiler suits. So, and at that time, Peter and Keith's pranks on each other were nonstop. So Keith stole one of Peter's boiler suits and he brought it to us

because he knew that we had all of our tie-dying dyes with us and we tie-dyed Peter's boiler suit. And then Keith crawled out on the terrace and got on the picture window and taped the boiler suit to the picture window. So now when Peter wakes up, he gets about four seconds of being horrified he thinks that some guy is about to jump into his room uh as it happened uh there had been some kind of motorcycle guys who had gotten mad at him and because they thought he was looking at their girl no no your girl was looking at him uh but uh they uh they had made threats and he thought that he

was going to get beat up what about jamming with hendrix on the on the timothy leary album which is mind-blowing really really not not as much of a thing as, you know, first of all, I knew him as Jimmy James, all right? And he was a very modest, soft-spoken man. This is what folks don't know about the guy who flicks his tongue out and plays with his teeth and all that stuff. He was a mild-mannered guy. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal podcast after this. Let me ask you about the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 2000, John, because you can find the video of you guys being inducted by Mellencamp

on video, and it's very touching. I mean, you thank a lot of people who helped you along the way. And you get choked up talking about people like Paul Rothschild and Cass Elliott, who you refer to as your Jewish angel. You thanked Lieber and Stoller. You even thanked Henry at Manny's Guitar Shop. That's right. That's right. Who's more important than Henry Goldrich? Come on. The late lamented Manny's.

Oh, but hey, how long do you think it's been since I called Henry Goldrich? I called him yesterday. You did? Yep. Wow. I called him because I wanted to let him know that he gets a kind of a credit and a thank you on this new album that me and Arlen Roth just finished up. Arlen Roth said, have you ever done like a spoonful instrumental album? And I said, have you ever done like a spoonful instrumental album? And I said, no.

He goes, we should do that. And we ended up doing it. When is that coming out? When can we look forward to that? Well, I think it's going to be held until it's done. But I think it'll be held until spring. And you were a big fan of, like, the whole Rat Pack, those type singers.

Well, this might be a misguide. I was so much more interested in Fats Domino than I really was. And I understand that Sinatra, I understand he's the greatest that's ever lived, but I like Dean Martin better. We like Dean Martin better, too. John, but going back to that rock and roll induction. By the way, doing research, I found that Zal was in National Lampoon's Lemmings.

Yes, that's right. Off-Broadway, which I loved, with Belushi doing the cocker. And Chevy Chase just hating him. Just couldn't stand to be in the room. Oh, no. And he was always that way. And he maintained that relationship with Chevy Chase forever. Yeah.

You know, it's bittersweet to watch you guys up there. You're playing for the first time. You played a couple of tunes with The Spoonful for the first time in many years. And it was the year 2000, and sadly, Zal would be gone only two years later. Yes. And, you know, tell us about your friendship, what, what he, what he meant to you, not only as an artist, but what, what he meant to the Spoonful success, because people should remember him. He was, he was really, uh, uh, not only, not only a wonderful guitarist,

but a legendary rock and roll character. Absolutely. And, uh, really, uh, there's never going to be anybody like that guy. My assessment is the Love and Spoonful, I don't know if it would have happened without Zali. I mean, sure, I could write some cool songs and play a good, solid, foundational-type guitar. But what Yanofsky was doing, I think Clapton even said it, he's playing the same licks that I'm playing, but he crosses his eyes and sticks his tongue out.

This listener, Jeffrey Bender, writes, I grew up in a town in Canada called Kingston, and your former bandmate Zolianofsky owned a restaurant there called Shea Piggy. Yes. We went on a date with a beautiful girl. I was on a date with a beautiful girl at his establishment, and he stopped at our table. He said our food looked great.

He took a bite, and he winked at my date with an ooga booga and kept on trucking. Ooga booga. That's right. Jewish rock star, Gilbert. Now, and I heard that Sally was, he would just launch into Jewish songs. Yes, that could happen. That could happen. And, you know, because he knew Yiddish and he passable Hebrew as a result of being on a kibbutz.

His dad thought he was going to hell, so he sent him to Israel to be on a kibbutz. Yanofsky just had fun with it, and I think he broke a tractor or something, and they sent him home. Before we get to the final plugs, John, one question about your dad from Bill Cates. Yes. I feel not enough of the world knows about John's father, who's also John Sebastian.

His classical harmonica playing rivals Larry Adler and all the other greats. It creams Larry Adler. It creams Larry Adler. Come on. It kicks Larry Adler's all the other greats. It creams Larry Adler. It creams Larry Adler. Come on. It kicks Larry Adler's ass. It does. Can you talk a little bit about him, and will there be an accessible collection of his stellar recordings?

Well, you know, it's funny that there's some kind of, I don't know what you'd call it uh uh like revival or renewed interest uh yeah um what happened was that uh i got a call that really yesterday i got a call from a classical music company that released one of Dad's albums and said, let's release more. And so we are hopefully going to be able to release Dad's Bach album. John Sebastian plays Bach, which is really remarkable, and several other albums of Dad's. Well, we should tell our listeners who love music to do the research into your dad.

I mean, he played with Leonard Bernstein. You know, he recital at Town Hall. I mean, he did some wonderful things in his career. You were telling me on the phone that of course he was groomed to be a banker well disappointed his parents well what it was was his dad was the banker and and had really been so happy because his son was magna cum laude from haverford he had all these credits he was gonna be credits. He was going to be in the foreign service. And then he comes back from Rome after a summer of hanging out with Picasso and Garth Williams

and goes, no, I'm going to play this little instrument in my pocket. If people go on YouTube, there are some of his recordings. There's a concerto from 1963, Malagüena's on YouTube. People can find it. People who are hardcore music fans should really dig your dad's work. And before we get to the plugs, John, some of your solo albums, I mean, I used to have the Welcome Back record on vinyl. Yeah.

There's some wonderful tunes on that. That didn't occur to Warner Brothers, yeah. I like that record very much. And also we'll recommend the John B. Sebastian, your debut solo album. Good album. Which I like very much. Produced by Paul Rothschild. Yeah, and the album you did with your pal David Chrisman in 2007,

Satisfied, is a must-have. A lot of fun. A lot of fun. That's a terrific record. And when you wrote the song Welcome Back, I heard they had to change the title? Yes. Originally, that show was called Cotter, right?

And I was brought in. They said, you know, can you come up with something on this? I wrote a song that night and came back with it the next day. And, you know, they were awed by the fact that i could get it that fast they in fact they said you know how did you finish this that fast and i said you know fellas you you're forgetting something which is that i was a sweat hog. Oh, wow. As a dyslexic kid, I was always the guy that got the report card,

John seems to be an intelligent boy. That was the first part of the sentence. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. That's where we met, John, in 2011 at the TV Land Awards. Welcome Back Cotter was getting an award. I was writing on that show. And for anyone who forgets, welcome back!

Your dreams are your ticket out. Very good, Bill. Did you deal with the legendary James Comack on that show uh no actually uh alan sacks was the primary guy uh comack got the credit but sacks did the work gotcha and what about gabe kaplan did you work with him at all oh uh well i certainly met him. And in later years, of course, we would get paired up very often where what a natural we get, you know, we get him and you have Sebastian open. So I did get it. And it was a very funny sequence that would always happen because I'd get dressed up, I'd do the opener, I'd change my clothes,

I'd be going downstairs in the elevator, and all of a sudden, he's actually got a tux on now. And I didn't know it, but he is a very serious gambler. And so he would do comedy shows at casinos just so that he could go and gamble. Oh, he made a fortune playing poker. Yeah, yeah. He did very well for himself.

Did you work with Rodney Dangerfield or open for him? I opened for Rodney, yes. And Rodney, it was, I loved Rodney. Rodney came back before I went on and said, so I know you've never, you know, been at one of my shows, but, you know, it's a rough crowd. And, geez, I, you know, he's just sort of fumbling for something to say. I'm really sorry you have to open for me is essentially what he was saying.

Oh, God. But he was so right because I went out there and like i i it's the sound starts after about 10 minutes i can't quite discern Get the fuck off the stage. Oh, my God. So, having, I knew I had Rodney's support on this. And so I said, folks, I've been hired to play 40 minutes before Rodney does his act. But if you piss me off, I'm going long. Oh, great. I'm sorry you and Gilbert never got to share a bill. Ah, me too.

Let's thank some people here, Gilbert. Our friend Jim DeLaCroce who made this possible. Yes. May I say, in 335 shows, we've never had more cooperation and help that we got from Jim. Absolutely. And he's an angel.

And Pathfinder Management, we will thank the engineer, the wonderful engineer here, Robert Frazza. Robert Frazza. With two Zs. Lizzie Vann and Dave Bennett. Bendett. Bendett. He's been, okay.

The guy starts as my manager. Two weeks later, I have Welcome Back, Cotter. So that worked out well. Very nice. And tell us about the Bearsville Theater Complex, John, and what's going on with that. Well, this has been rather remarkable. Now, remember, I've been living in this town since 76,

and various people at various times after the passing of Albert Grossman tried to sort of fix things up, you know, a little paint and maybe an air wick in the basement or something. But Lizzie Vann really went after this like it was a heritage property and has really treated it that way. And we're trying to work out whatever we can in the way of live concerts or televised concerts or whatever is possible. Obviously, your Woodstock experience meant enough to you that you settled there for many years.

Absolutely. I came up here. Bob Dylan invited me up here. I think he wanted me to be a bass player at the time, and I ended up there with Albert Grossman and him in that cool little house on the top of the hill. You made a life. Yeah.

So visit, for our listeners, visit Bearsville, like a bear, bearsvilletheater.com. And we'll plug Jim's memoir, which is coming in 2021, Maximum PR. I tell you. I love the title. John, as Abbas once sang, thank you for the music. Thank you very much for your interest. It means so much to so many

people. I barely got into the questions that we had for you. I have about 40 of them. I was only able to read five. Well, Gilbert, and you and I should do this again sometime. Well, we will. I think I should do this again sometime. Well, we will.

I think we probably got to about one-third of the Sebastian anecdotes. That's right. I haven't even gotten to the part where Lightning Hopkins is obviously going up to my mother's house. Can you tell us one thing about Jim Morrison before we go? Not as exciting as one might think. Really? Disappointing. No, no.

Well, here's what it was. Paul Rothschild, and I don't say this as a brag because you know how famous the Doors are in retrospect compared to the Spoonful. But at the time, Paul felt that he might be able to get more cooperation from Jim if I was there because I had more of a reputation as just like a regular musician. Right. Like not a guy with 18 women crawling on his back.

Yeah, so it did actually have somewhat that effect. I mean, I don't know whether it was just that he was a sober boy that day, but he was very cooperative. I was excited out of my mind because the bass player is Lonnie Mack. And that to, was the big stuff. Well, that is you. For all our listeners who ever wondered, that is John playing that wonderful harmonica on Roadhouse Blues. And we could keep talking to you for hours

because I have like 15 more cards about your career. But in the interest of time, I also want to wish a happy birthday to our friend John Murray, our engineer who has done incredible things for this show. Oh, happy birthday, John. Yeah. Thanks a lot, guys.

And Gil, do you want John to take us out maybe with one other tune if he's feeling generous? What do you think? Okay. Oh, geez. How do you feel, John choice okay we're gonna do a duet gil let's uh i'll do the uh intro to you didn't have to be so nice and then we'll do it okay i'll see how many words i know of it okay gil don't fuck this up. Yeah.

You didn't have to be so nice. I would have liked you anyway. If you had asked me once or twice and gone about your quiet way, they'd say that the time was right for me to follow you. I knew I'd find you in a day or two,

and it's true. You didn't have to be so nice. I would have liked you anyway. If you had asked me once or twice. And gone about your quiet way. John Murray, I tried to give you a birthday present by having John Sebastian sing, but you got a Gilbert Gottfried vocal. It's great. Which is much more valuable.

That's right. You know valuable. That's right. You know it. That was fun. John, you are a sport. You're a legend. We can't thank you enough for this. You bet. We'll look for the album and the documentary. And boy, do you need a documentary about your life.

I heard someone refer to you as the zealot of popular music. I love the term. I love the term. I love the term. Gil, what do you think? Oh, well, I mean, to be able to sing with you, especially pop, because, I mean, I remember the words to that. That song stuck with me. It really do, too.

Not very many people do you know when when jim when john's manager reached out to me about john and of course john has been on our list i said you won't believe the timing of this because gil we did an episode last week and gil was singing pow from wow what's up tiger lily so it was meant to be it was ket. And I still want to say I'm pissed off having to interview a fucking guinea. So next week, we'll be interviewing the prime minister of Israel. Atta boy. the prime minister of Israel. Attaboy.

An honor working with you, John. Well, thank you, Gilbert. I really have enjoyed myself and I look forward to another chance to do it some more. John, our listeners will eat this one up. We got a big response on Patreon and we can't thank you enough. And these songs will sustain us for the rest of our days. My pleasure.

My pleasure. So this has been Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast with my co-host Frank Santopadre and the great John Sebastian. How is it you get the Santopadre and the great John Sebastian. How is it you get the Santopadre and the Mozzagrist in the same show? Gilbert, if you only knew what that meant. Ciao.

Sebastiano Pugliese. Si. Ciao Sebastiano Pugliese Si I'll tell you about the magic and the freedom of soul, but it's like trying to tell a stranger about a rock and roll. Wipe off your face, no matter how hard you try Your feet start tappin' and you can't seem to find How you got there, so just blow your mind You keep believing in magic Come along with me We'll dance until morning There's just you and me

And maybe if the music is right I'll meet you tomorrow So late at night And we'll go dancing Maybe then you'll see How the magic's in the music And the music's in me Yeah Do you believe in magic?

Yeah, believe in the magic of the younger soul Believe in the magic of a rock and roll Believe in the magic that can set you free Oh, I'm talking about the magic Thank you.