Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - GGACP Classic: Norman Steinberg

Episode Date: March 23, 2023

GGACP salutes the life and career of our friend, Emmy-winning writer and producer Norman Steinberg, by revisiting this memorable conversation from 2016. In this episode, Norman talks about his friendships with Mel Brooks, Harvey Korman and Madeline Kahn, collaborating with Richard Pryor and George Carlin and co-scripting the (arguably) funniest movie of all time, "Blazing Saddles." Also, Norman remembers Peter O'Toole, praises Flip Wilson, accepts an award from Jimmy Durante and ends Luciano Pavarotti's film career. PLUS: "My Favorite Year"! "When Things Were Rotten"! James Mason goes bowling! Gilbert brings back vaudeville! And the strange life of David Frye! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Trivia and dirty jokes, an evening with the boys. Once is never good enough For something so fantastic So here's another Gilbert and Franks Here's another Gilbert and Franks Here's another Gilbert and Franks Colossal classic Hi, this is Gilbert Gottfried, and this is Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal podcast with my co-host, Frank Santopadre, and we're once again at Nutmeg with our engineer, Frank

Furtarosa. Our guest this week is an Emmy-winning comedy writer and producer who has written for some of the most visible and prominent performers of the past five decades, Elaine Stritch, Danny DeVito, Harvey Korman, Flip Wilson, Billy Crystal, Michael Keaton, and even Luciano Pavarotti. He scripted variety shows, TV specials, Academy Award telecasts, comedy albums, sitcoms like When Things Were Rotten, Dr. Doctor, The Cosby Show, uh-oh, as well as popular feature films, including Wise Guys, Funny About Love, Johnny Dangerously, and one of our favorite comedies, the Mel Brooks produced My Favorite Year. 43 years ago, he was asked by his mentor, Mel Brooks, along with writers Andrew Bergman and Alan Ugger and the legendary Richard Pryor to create the screenplay for what is considered by many to be the funniest movie ever made, Blazing Saddles.

It is. Please welcome to the show a comedy writer's comedy writer and a man who claims, I once led to him being fired, Norman Steinberg. What a pleasure to be here. Welcome, Norman. Thank you. Thank you. Okay.

Now, you actually listen to this show. I love this show. You're sweet. I listen religiously. Sometimes I wear a talus. I ran into Norman in the street at an event. I went to see an event, Andrew Bergman. I ran into him in the street, and he said he had just listened to the Amy Heckerling episode.

Yes. Yeah. And I had worked with Amy on Johnny Dangerously. Yeah, of course. She was great. She was great. And Andrew, you were interviewing Andrew Bergman. Andrew Bergman was being interviewed, yeah, by a friend of mine, by Randy Cohen.

Now, we got to get to the most important thing, and I think what the world wants to know. You claim I got you fired from the Cosby Show. Happily. This was the Dr. Huxtable. No, no. It was this second iteration. Oh, the Dr. Huxtable. Yeah. No, no. No? It was this second iteration. It was. Oh, my God.

Luke something. It was Cosby. Yeah, yeah. And it was, his name was Luke something. Now I'm blanking on it. I'm blanking on Bill Cosby. It was not the famous, the successful Huxtable. No, no, it was not.

It was not. Same wife. Yeah. Same wife. They brought her back. Same wife. Yeah, same wife. In fact, he had fired the original woman who he hired, and he said to Felicia, you've got to come back. And she did. And we had a meeting, and it was with Les Moonves and Bill at his house.

And Les said, hey, suppose we go to Atlantic City and we have Cliff Huxtable and the new guy whose name I'm blanking on now too. Oh, he was kind of like a rapper or something. Oh, he was kind of like a rapper or something. No, he was a baggage handler who had – No, no, who caused me was a baggage handler. Oh, yeah, and Dougie Doug. Dougie Doug. Dougie Doug was the last one. Who's hilarious, by the way.

Dougie Doug was the one. Who's hilarious, by the way. And so he had been downsized and he was living in Astoria. And he was supposed to be very angry at having been fired. And we did an episode and there was a – we did an old vaudeville routine. I think you'll remember. You were in jail. Niagara Falls.

Yes. Yes. Oh, my God. Slowly I turned. And Gilbert was in jail. And Cosby and Dougie Doug. But it was David Letterman that sprung me off. David, the name David Letterman. Yeah, David Letterman.

Made you crazy. Slowly I turned. Because he, David Letterman had stolen your girlfriend something like that so I loved the episode I thought it was hilarious it was a little crazy and

we did the show we shot it and I got a call from one of the producers one of the owners of the show. And they said, Gilbert Gottfried. Do you think he's funny? And I said, I think he's hilarious. He said, I don't.

Can you cut him out of the show? And I said, well, yeah, sure. But we won't have a show. But I'll edit it and we'll see what transpires. So I edited the show. And the producer called Cosby. He was off doing a weekend on the West Coast and said, I hate this show. I hate this episode and it's your fault.

So he came back and he was angry. And he didn't read the other, the new episode, but he wanted to throw it out. And I took a stand and I said, he was angry because the producer, I'm not going to name him or her, that didn't like the show. And I think it was difficult for him to hear this, especially from a woman. And that occasioned a reading where he just killed two of the writers, two young writers who I had hired. And I said, it's not their fault. We all go over this script. He said, I hate this.

This is the next script. I hate this script. And it was all because he was angry that somebody didn't like the previous episode that you ruined. Yes. So I took a stand and I said, this is, no, I'm the showrunner. I put this on the table. And don't blame them. One of the writers who went on, by the way, to do Colbert. And is still with us.

Colbert's producer. A wonderful writer. And he turned to the guy at CBS. And he said, Bill, it's a good script. And he turned to our guy at CBS. And he said, what do it's a good script. And we turned to our guy at CBS and he said, what do you think of the script? And alarmingly, the CBS executive said, I think it's a terrific script, Bill.

And he got up and he said, well, I guess I'm wrong. And left the room. And I heard taps playing in my head. That was it. And a half hour later, my agent called and said, they're making a change. Wow. So that was it.

And it's funny because— He didn't even offer me a drink. It's funny because when I was hired to do a guest spot on the other. And it was his idea, by the way. He wanted you. Well, because you've been on the old Cosby show a bunch of times. You've been recurring. I remember he when I was on Thick of the Night, that horrible show, that somebody had told me,

Crosby was like a fan of mine. He had seen some episodes. Yeah. He's the one who suggested you. He wanted to do Niagara Falls. Oh, yeah. And he said, let's get Gilbert. I said, great. Let's do it.

And there you were. Wow. It wasn't your fault. It wasn't. Wow. It wasn't your fault. It wasn't. Yeah. But I was just defending these two young writers. And they lived. I died.

I mean, I was gone. See, I heard the reason you were fired is when you said, Miss, don't drink that. When he was teaching comedy to Asian models? Yes. Now, did you tell me that story? Somebody told me this story. No, I don't think it was Norman.

When I was on one of the Cosby incarnations, they said that Bill Cosby sets aside like an hour. It's like in the schedule where he teaches comedy to Asian models. Yeah. And Turkish models. I remember when Cosby was on the air, there were so many funny Asian women around. Cosby was on the air. There were so many funny Asian women around. Asian women were walking down the street going,

Hey, you know, he goes in the thing. But he was famous for a lot of, to me at least, for a lot of like 2 a.m. and 3 a.m. phone calls because he never slept. I mean, listen, I revere him. He was a comic legend. And I think this is a tragedy of Shakespearean proportions. It is. His comedy was special.

So what's the first line on the obituary yeah of course yeah and and it's like it's kind of like similar to like fatty arbuckle yeah fatty arbuckle fatty but fatty arbuckle i said this the other day he what did he do he gave somebody a coke yeah right and and he was like a very successful comedian, Fatty Arbuckle, and had loads of fans. And it's the same way you're going to remember Fatty Arbuckle when you bring up Bill Cosby. Oh, he was that guy who was raping all those women. Yeah. That's going to be it. And that's sad because what he did for comedy and you probably saw him as he was coming up.

David Steinberg was coming up at the same time. Oh, yeah, sure, sure. It was a great, great period for comics. It really was. Interesting that it took 128 guests to find somebody who actually went to bat for you. Oh! That's something in your career. All the other guests were going, sure, well, fine. thing that it took 128 guests to find somebody who actually went to bat for you. Oh! All the other guests were going, sure, we'll

fire Gilbert. Fire him now. I'll tell you how long since you did The Honeymooners with James Mason as Ralph Cranberry. Oh, that's how long you've been a fan of his? Oh, I love it.

And Richard Burton as Norton. Yeah. And Jack Nicholson as Alex. The Honeymooners. The Motion Picture. James Mason is Ralph Cranberry. I'm sorry. Alice Norton and I are going to play poor and after that we'll go bowling

Richard Burton has not. I can't go bowling with you, Raff. You see, unbeknownst to me, Trixie's mother is Camilla. Oh, you're right, Norton. Still holds up. I love that. We have Joyce Randolph coming in here, too, in a couple of weeks,

and we should pull that out for her. She'd be very impressed. The only living member of the Honeymoon. That's it. No, I saw you did it live. Oh, you had a special. Yeah, I had a special, but I used to be a maniac all the time. You won my heart.

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You did. You're the only guest so far. I am a fan of comics and comedy and that's been my life and your life and your life. I remember what stands out to me about the cause,

aside from the fact that Cosby wanted me personally, is it was already a big show. And that show that I was on, for some reason, the next day in the papers, it broke all records of the most watched sitcom ever on TV, that episode. Of the show that we did? Yeah, yeah.

The old Cosby show? The old Cosby show. Oh, the old, yeah. The original Cosby show. You know what was weird with that? The second one with Luke, where he's the baggage handler? Yeah. That show seemed like it never really knew what kind of a show it was supposed to be.

Well, it was adapted from a British show. And Cosby would never – the British show was an angry show like Archie Bunker, like Till Death Lest You Depart. Right. Like Archie Bunker, like Till Death Lest You Part. And he refused to go there because he had his image and what he – his image of himself and his public image. And he wouldn't – interestingly enough, I mean – and again, I'm not here to trash Bill because I do revere him and what he's done for comedy. But this, you know, he was such a genius. I mean, when we would write a scene and if it didn't work, I'd go up to him afterwards because we reshooted. He said, I got an idea. And there was one point where he did, I think it was like a 17-minute monologue off the top of his head.

And it was breathtaking. Just stuff that he had remembered and about – he was trying to teach a lesson to a young black man who graduated from Harvard who was dating his daughter. And the punchline was, that's the downfall of all black men, Harvard. How he got there. But it was genius. Brilliant. It was certainly brilliant in his day. I remember when I was doing the Cosby one where he's Huxt each other. And both of them were basically performing for each other in conversation.

And it was, to me, it was like the greatest lesson in comedy. Cosby would stretch out his stories and go into detail. Milton Burl would go for the quickest shtick that he could do and he was hysterical. Two eras. Yeah, two different comedy eras. Oh, yes. But both hysterical. The first time that I met him was on the Flip Wilson show. And Flip would have, I mean, he had

everybody. You were a writer on that show and you won an Emmy. Yeah, that was my first big job. Just gonna ask you about it. But Cosby would come on the show and flip flip would have a rehearsal and he would have cue cards uh just just him and he he wanted to hear this stuff and and the cue cards he started reading it and invariably he would cut everybody's lines, just go like this, and the lines were out. And Cosby was left with shrugs and still got more laughs than Flip.

I mean, it was just the looks and the glances. I mean, it was – there was one scene where Flip said, I want you to do my eulogy. Cosby was left with, I'd be thrilled to do that. He said, and I want you to come to the cemetery with me and ride with me. You mean with the coffin? ride with me i mean with the coffin and and that was and now and cosby got every laugh with his looks and his grimaces wow he's a genius you loved flip wilson too didn't you you loved working for him you said well it was it was it was my launching yeah and uh he was i what i loved about flip was that he also loved comics and uh he he was – what I loved about Flip was that he also loved comics and he was adorable.

It was amazing because he just burst on the scene. We were the number one show, just like that. I love that show. You remember the Church of What's Happening Now? Yeah. And you know what's funny about the Flip Wilson show is they would always have like an odd assortment of guests that didn't seem to match up with each other. Which made it even more fun. Yeah. So it was like the black version of Ed Sullivan.

Yes. Yes. A true variety show. Yeah. This guy's going to come out and lift up a table with his teeth. And one of your early jobs, and you won an Emmy. And I was telling Gilbert and Cliff before, who handed you your Emmy? Jimmy Durante.

Wow. What a thrill. I had a borrowed velvet suit on. Fantastic. And my mother hemmed up the cuffs. I love it. It was great, and it was just happenstance. I had done a Robert Klein show, and I was out in California.

Comedy Tonight. Comedy Tonight. And I was out in California doing the second, you remember David Frye? Sure. We talked about him on the show. We just had Will Jordan on here. Yeah. David, I mean, he was a genius.

Yeah. And a person probably with no life. But he, you'd see him in the bathroom doing faces. And we did the first album, I Am the President, and we got a Grammy. My first two jobs, we got a Grammy. I didn't get it. The album got a Grammy. Right. And then Flip Wilson, an Emmy.

Yeah. And I was out in California and I ran into Robert Klein on the street at Sunset Boulevard across from the Comedy Store. And I was staying in this motel. There was a motel across the street where this Leonard Barr. Oh, sure. Oh, my God. Dean Martin's uncle.

That's right. I remember Leonard Barr. Very well. Like the funny walker, funny dancer. He was a funny guy. Yeah. Loved him. And I ran into Robert, and he said, oh, you got to come out to Burbank.

I'm doing a Flip Wilson show. So I went out to see it, and I met the head writer, who was a guy named Herb Baker, whose mother, you'll know this. Maybe. Bell Baker. Her name sounds familiar. She was like the road show. Cliff would know. She's like the road show Sophie Tucker.

Okay. road show cliff would know she's like the road show uh sophie tucker okay and uh his byline somebody said about him he says herb baker never met a man i didn't adore and the show they needed another writer and so they hired me and my partner alan uger who, he left after two weeks. He was homesick. We apologized to Alan for mispronouncing his name in the interview. Alan Uger. Oh, yes. But it was, I was riding alone, and then Flip was so kind that George Carlin hadn't done the seven words you can't say. And he hired him to do the Hippie Dippie Weatherman. Yeah.

And he made him my partner. So we wrote a sketch that Tim Conway did, which was basically the president's – the guy, he was the president and flip cleaned the president's office and the president united states and and tim conway is the president and flip would come in and the president would be sitting there and knitting his brow and flip would say get up instead of he and and it was it was flip telling him how to run the country, essentially. And then they did that character for a couple of years. I quit after the first year because I wanted to come home. You wanted to leave L.A. and come back to Brooklyn. What great days. You and George Carlin collaborating on a Tim Conway sketch on the Flip Wilson show.

We worked that whole year. That's great. And he was an absolute delight and a genius. And right after that, he took off. He did that album and that did it. He was on his way. Right, right. Tell us a little bit about David Frye, what kind of person he was.

Because he's always struck us as a little idiosyncratic, a little odd. His name's come up. He seemed like one of those people who he had to be those characters or else he didn't exist. There was nothing. Well, Sid Caesar was like that. Oh, yeah. It's the same. They had to get into character.

I've heard that about Jonathan Winters. Peter Sellers, another one. Yeah. They said if he wasn't doing a character, he didn't exist. It was a thing with Sid. They had all the writers in L.A. at the – I think it was at the Writers Guild. And they were honoring Sid. And it was all the, you know, 27 Yankees.

It was Mel and Larry Galbart. Tolkow. Woody. Yeah. Woody wasn't there. Oh, Neil Simon. Neil Simon. Yeah.

And Sid got up to accept the award and make some remarks. And he just couldn't get it together. And Mel leaned over and said, Sid, do it in German. Great. And Fry was the same way. He was a non-person. Yeah, he didn't exist. There's a bunch of them like that, like Peter Sellers, a bunch that just don't exist.

Yeah. And the funny thing is every time – and I remember an article when Nixon came out, Anthony Hopkins. They had photos and names of every single person in comedy or drama who has been Nixon. And the one left out, of course, is David Frye, who all these other people doing Nixon were doing David Frye. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. He was. And his Buckley was incredible. Oh,e. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. He was, and his Buckley was incredible.

Oh, yes. Incredible. That was astonishing. In fact, Robin Williams does David Frye's Buckley in a laugh. Yeah, I mean, those, all those guys are a little strange, aren't they? Oh, yes. When they have to become, they have to become someone else and and they they lose they lose their identity their sense of being their purpose in life i remember

fry used to like stick his tongue out as buckley and make his eyes pop out yes yes yes he wanted to uh when we did the album he wanted to know if his name was going to be on it. Very strange. Which is so. Very strange. Very strange. Yeah. And the last time I saw him was at a urinal in, sorry.

Oh, God. It's fine. Musso and Frank. Oh, sure. He said, David, how are you? He said, I'm 52 years old and I can't pee. What was that? David Steinberg told a story that he, David was guest hosting the Tonight Show,

and they warned him when David Fry comes out, don't try to ask him a question or get him in a conversation. Just tell him to do his voices like Nixon and all the others. And he comes out, sits down, and David just goes, hey, Dave, how you doing? And Fry goes, how am I doing? What's he talking about? How am I doing?

And he's looking around. He's panicking. And then he goes, well, I mean, how are you doing with Nixon? And it was fine. That's Adam Ma. No, it was, yeah, he was an idiot savant. He had this peculiar talent that it was astonishing. And that album took off.

Oh, yeah. It was the second one. I did the second one with Mickey Rose was the head writer. Woody Allen's old guy. Yeah. Mickey Rose, yeah. Yeah, I went out to California and did that. But that was called Radio Free Nixon. It just wasn't – it was so fresh when he came out.

Oh, yeah. Like Vaughn Meter. But, you know, that was it. One and out was so fresh when he came out. Oh, yeah. Like Vaughn Meter. But, you know, that was it. One and out. So you're a Brooklyn kid, as we established. Right. And you were a lawyer. You were not a comedy writer originally.

And you met somebody in Shock Full of Nuts that turned things around. That guy. Yeah, I was at 57th and 7th. And I was a. Not far from here. Yeah, I was an entertainment lawyer. And I hated myself. And every morning I'd go down to Chock Full of Nuts.

And there was Mel Brooks. And I said, I just literally pulled on his coat. I loved him. The first time I saw him was in a theater lobby, which brings me to something. Somebody asked Mel, what does a Jew need? And he said,

a Jew needs a lobby. We get it, right? I mean, it's like, like what's what's the greatest invention saran wrap yeah right and that's it's the same kind at any rate i i said uh i want to be a comedy writer i want to be a comedy writer he said uh he put his hands on my shoulders and looked deeply into my eyes and said, leave me alone. But I didn't. And one day, like all writers, we're very kind people. I'd like to think so. Yeah. And he handed me a piece of paper.

He said, call this guy. And the guy was the producer of Get Smart. Leonard Stern. Yeah. Yeah. And he handed me a piece of paper. He said, call this guy. And the guy was the producer of Get Smart. Leonard Stern. Yeah. Yeah. And he said, you want to be a writer, Mel tells me. I said, yeah. He said, write something.

Write a script for the show. I'll read it. I'd never written a script. I sat down, wrote a script, sent it to him, and he called me. And he said, well, actually, Chris Hayward called me, and he said, this is a wonderful script, and if the show is picked up, we'll buy it. And I went in the next day and quit.

You quit your law job. Yeah. Yeah. Good for you. And that was, Mel was, at that point two failed movies, the producers and 12 chairs. Right. And he said, what do you want to be? Look at me.

He says, I'm buying a cruller. Leave me alone. He said, all right, I got a rich wife. But, you know, he and it, I went and did the Flip Wilson show, did comedy tonight. But I went – when I quit Flip Wilson, that's how life works out. It's around 72, 70? Yeah. And I said – it was 71.

71. I said – they said, you got an Emmy. You're coming. You know, you're going to be. I was making 750 bucks a week. And I was going to 1,200 a week, which was astonishing to me. And I said, no, I have to go home. And so I came back.

And I was looking for work. And I got a job. Same guy who gave me my first two jobs, Gary Belkin, who was a writer on your show of shows. And he said one of the great things to me as a writer. I said, how can I ever repay you? He gave me the Robert Klein show and also the job on the David Frye album. And he said, pass it on. That was, and every time I say that, I get a chill because then it was like you have these epiphanies. I'm going to dedicate myself to doing that. And you're still doing that today?

Still doing that. With your students? Yeah. But I'm going back to writing. Good. Good. And we jump around here a lot, Norman, but I'm going to jump to a phone call from Mel after he got his hands on a script

from a guy named Andrew Bergman who we just talked about. So Andrew Bergman, who everybody should know, the writer-director of The Freshman and Honeymoon in Vegas. By the way, Andy's son is on this new show, which you should watch, called Good Girls Revolt on Amazon about Newsweek and when Nora Ephron did it.

His son Teddy is a wonderful actor, is a regular on the show. Well, look for it. Yeah. And Andrew also wrote the little movie called The In-Laws. So a script that he'd written called Tex-X, and it had a lot of different titles, found its way into Mel Brooks' hands, and he usually didn't direct things that he hadn't written, but decided to take it on. Yep. And then at some point in the process, you got a phone call. He usually didn't direct things that he hadn't written but decided to take it on. Yeah.

And then at some point in the process, you got a phone call. Well, it wasn't a phone call. I was doing another Gary Belkin job. We were doing Aquacade and Aquapulco. Oh, the one with Stiller and Mira. Yes. Yes. You like that title, Gilbert?

Yes. Aquacade and Aquapulco. And that didn't make it. Stiller and Meir. Ed, your host, Ed McMahon. Tony Randall. Tony Randall, yes, and the Aquamaniacs. Oh, God.

And a guy named Henry Lamothe who would dive from 40 feet into 40 inches of water. And so I did this show. Mel was on the show as a performer. Oh, that's right. That's right. He needed the money, he said. And it was 10 days in Acapulco and was pregnant with, you know, Max, Max was right. Who is the king of the zombies? Sure.

He wrote. He wrote World War Z. Yeah. Yeah. It's great. And so we were all in Acapulco. And Mel said to me, which was we wrote a sketch together, which he played sort of a Nazi. And I played a bellhop and I delivered a package to him and he said, here, hold this for me in the pool because it was ticking.

I went off camera. I had a nice uniform on and there was an explosion and all my gold buttons came flying into frame. And Mel looked at it and said, oh, that's such a beautiful uniform. And he said, there was a human being in that uniform. Yeah, that too. But after those 10 days, we just, he said, I want to write with you, which was astounding to me. I want to write with you, which was astounding to me. And he said, I got a script, and would you read it and tell me if you think it's funny?

And it was Andy's script. It was great. And how did Andy come up with the idea? Andy was working at United Artists. This is a story I think is true. And over his desk, there was a poster of Jimi Hendrix on a horse. It had been around, one of those rock posters. Yeah, I know the poster.

Yeah, with a guitar. Yeah. And he kept staring at this poster. And it was the light bulb, a black sheriff in the Old West. And that was it. And he just, he just went with it and wrote a script and got, I think, 25,000 bucks, which they were initially going to do with Alan Arkin directing and James

Earl Jones playing the sheriff playing black bar. Can you imagine? And he also wrote, uh, he also wrote The Scout, if you remember that. Oh, yes. I like that one, too. And that was supposed to be John Belushi. Oh. John Belushi was going to play it.

And Andy was going to direct it, but it ended up with – Michael Ritchie, I think. Yeah, and Albert Brooks. Albert Brooks. Yeah. But that script was really funny. And we redid the story. And even though Mel will tell it differently,

he looked around the room, Alan Uger, me, Andy, and Mel. He said, I'm looking at four Jews. We need a gentleman of color so i had worked with richard on the on uh flip wilson and so i said i'll call him i think he's the funniest funniest man in the world and i called him and he i said richie we're doing this film with mel brooks and he he lost his breath. Mel Brooks. Mel Brooks. He couldn't even get the name out. Wow.

He was thrilled. I said, you want to do it? He said, yes, I need train fare. They sent him. There was only one hotel in New York that would take him because he had stiffed everybody out. He was at the plaza, and he said, I need a ticket for me and my woman. And they came in, and he was, you know,

did you ever work with Richard? Yeah, yeah, I worked with him. And the last of the Gene Wilder, Richard Pryor. It was a horrible, horrible film. But what I remember about Pryor, it was the first time I'd ever spoken to him. So I worked with two weeks there. And Pryor was like very quiet. And he followed me around like I was a major comedy legend and he was just an annoying kid. And he would go and goes, you are so funny with the Problem Child movies and even when you're not trying to be funny, you're funny. And I thought, wow. What a compliment.

Yeah. Yeah. And I thought, wow. What a compliment. Yeah. Yeah. I was in awe because to have these two guys in the room going, he lasted three weeks. What happened?

There's conflicting stories. He disappeared in Cleveland or Detroit? Chicago. Chicago. Yeah, Chicago. He called and he said. I've heard three versions of this. I lost my wallet. But he literally said he wanted to go back because he ran out of Coke.

I mean, he wasn't hiding anything. Of course, which plays into why Warner Brothers was reluctant to use them. But then after that, they had that run of. It's so wild that – It's weird how that turned out. I guess it was Mel Brooks' idea to hire Pryor for Blazing Saddles. I mean, to be on screen. They wouldn't stand for it. They said, no, we can't – we don't know.

It will disappear. And then a couple of years later, he teams up with Wilder. And they're like Abbott and Cost he teams up with Wilder. Exactly. And they're like Abbott and Costello. What a weird twist. Yeah. And the super – I call it super chief, Silverstreak. Silverstreak, yeah.

Was – he was just sort of a pop-up store in that. You know, he just appeared in the backseat. And it was Gene's picture. And Gene, you know, he's another genius who walked into Blazing Saddles. We had Lost. We had Dan Daly. The first person we asked to play that role was Johnny Carson. And I went to the Tonight Show with Mel.

That's amazing. And we went into the dressing room, and he said, he had sent the script over, and he said, we really would love you to do this. It's like Dean Martin and Rio Bravo. Right. And you play a drunk. You've had a few drinks in your life. Do it.

Do it. And Johnny said, this is what I do. And he was right. Let them in the same way. Gil, I have to talk to you about me undies. Oh, yes. They are made from sustainably sourced Modal, which is a fabric that's twice as soft as cotton. And that's why once you put them on, you realize why they're called the world's most comfortable underwear.

Why? Once you put them on, you realize why they're called the world's most comfortable underwear. And I think if you have me on these, forget spending money on silk underwear. I swear to God, it feels like silk. Very, very comfortable. It's like a pillowcase around your junk. Yeah. And this is absolutely true. When the mic wasn't on and we were just about to do this, you said, you know, it really is good underwear. I wasn't kidding. And I said, yeah. And both of us right now, whether you want to think about it or not, both of us are wearing MeUndies.

Oh, I want to think about it. Yeah, I'll think about it tonight when I get home. I'm wearing my blue and orange stripes because I'm a Met fan. And also a fan of the 64 World's Fair. If you don't love, here's the best part, if you don't love your first pair of MeUndies, they're free. No questions asked. Which sounds like something Sheldon Leonard should be saying in a mob movie.

No questions asked. And shipping is free in the U.S. and Canada. And you can save up to $8 a pair with MeUndies subscription plan. So not only are they comfortable underwear, it's a great deal. And they're called the most comfortable underwear in the world. And they really are.

They really are. Get the subscription or a single pair. You get 20% off your first order, which is a good deal, when you go to MeUndies.com slash Gilbert. That's MeUndies.com slash Gilbert for 20% off your first order. MeUndies.com slash Gilbert. There's a famous story Mel Brooks has told that they also wanted Gig Young. We had Gig Young.

But wait a minute, you started out with Carson for the Waco kids. Carson. We went to Dan Daly. Dan Daly. Dan Daly Young. But wait a minute, you started out with Carson for the Waco kids. Carson, we went to Dan Daly. Then Dan Daly. Dan Daly was. Great song and dance man. He just didn't think he could do it. He wasn't strong enough. Also, you know, as they say, he was fond of his jar.

So then he hired Gig Young. Right. Gig Young came in at 8 o'clock in the morning, said hello, and then fainted. And that literally, literally hit the floor. Yeah. He was drunk. Tragically, after that, he killed his girlfriend and himself. He took his own life.

It's a sad ending. An Academy Award winner. Good actor. They shoot horses. He took his own life. It's a sad ending. An Academy Award winner. Good actor. They shoot horses. He was a wonderful actor. And he also was supposed to be the voice of Charlie in Charlie's Angels. Wow. I didn't know that.

Yeah. That's cool. And the day that they were going to be recording, he was bombed. And so at the last minute, they called john forsythe and said could you come over here yeah yeah that that was it that was what a gig what a gig yeah yeah no he was he was great and then mel just called i mean i i thought it was because you go from gig young van daly to gene i mean it's a curly-haired Jew. Where does that come from?

It's hysteric. But he was magnificent. Now you can't imagine anybody else doing it. Yeah, right. Because he just owns it. That was – and Mel has a great, great, great sense of casting. I mean, he really – did he discover Madeline Kahn? No, but he knew how to use her.

And she was on the, as you know. Oh, yes, yes, on that Cosby show. On the Cosby, I don't know what she was doing there, but she was a dear friend. And I said, Mad madeline she said you know i grew up in queens and my best friends were always african-americans and i would go i would go to their houses because my house was dull and they were so jolly and we would sing we would sing and we would dance she was she there's a there's a line in Blazing Saddles where they've just had – she and the sheriff have had their night together with the schnitzel gruben.

The schnitzel gruben. And he leaves and he said, no, I got to get some vitamin C, and I got to go. And she, vitamin E. Depends on how much vitamin E I get my hands on. Would you care for another schnitzelgruben? No, thank you. Fifteen is my limit on schnitzelgruben. Well, then, how about a little...

Baby, please, I am not from Havana. Excuse me, honey. I got a little, uh... Baby, please! I am not from Havana! Excuse me, honey. Besides, I'm late for work. I've got some heavy chores to do. Well, I... Will I see you later? Well, it all depends on how much vitamin E I can get my hands on. Nein! Nein, ach so! No, no, no, you mustn't go. I need you. I never met nobody like you.

I can't live without you. You've made my life. Please. And he leaves, and she throws herself against the door and just says, what a nice guy. Yeah, fantastic. She was so adorable. It's funny you mentioned the casting in that movie.

Every part. I mean, from Harvey Korman to Slim Pickens. And the lesser roles. Robert Ridgely as the hangman. And the great David Huddleston. And George Firth, who's a big theater figure. And Liam Dunn. And everybody in that movie is, you can't take your eyes off them.

They're all perfect. I just saw the Lin-Manuel Miranda piece on PBS, and it was with Stephen Sondheim. And he mentioned how – what a great influence George Firth was. He wrote the books for— People don't know that. They don't know his other life. I heard that Mel Brooks was very big on wanting to know if someone was musically talented.

Yeah. Yeah. He's got a great ear. Listen, he wrote the producer's score. I saw him – I was on 79th Street, Madison Avenue, and he was hailing – and I knew he was writing the producers as a Broadway musical. I said, where are you going? Well, we're doing the musical with Tom Meehan, a wonderful writer.

And I said, who's doing the music? He said, I am. And lyrics, I am. And I said, I have two words of advice for you. He said, what? Candor and ebb. No, but he really did it. He really did it.

I mean, those are... All those songs, like I'm Tired. Yeah. Yeah, and Blazing Saddles. And High Anxiety. High Anxiety. It's hysterical. And the Sinatra rendition that he does.

Oh, yes. It's great. Anxiety. It's great. No, he's terrifically musical. That's why I love Terry Garr and Madeline, of course. It's like when you think of the great ones, like the Marx Brothers were all musicians. Yeah.

Charlie Chaplin was a composer. Well, you've said that on this show, that there's something, there's some connection between hearing music and hearing comedy. The timing and tempo it's like when you hear that's what was so horrible about the bud and lou story with harvey korman yeah we love harvey though yeah i mean both were are were great stars i mean both him and Buddy Hackett, but eee. The timing. But when you hear Abbott and Costello do Who's on First, it's like it's so musical. It really is. Absolutely.

You're caught up in the rhythm of it. Harvey was such a dear person. We had a mutual friend who was one of the great, great writers, orchestrators, writers for film, Jerry Goldsmith. Oh, he's a legend. We talk about him on this show. Jerry was dying and he was one of my best friends. And he, Harvey and I would take him out for dinner.

He just wanted to laugh. And Harvey was so kind and so caring that and I'll never forget that and so as Jerry was dying um he said he asked me would you write would you write the oh his father had died at the age of 106 Jerry was 75 and he said would you write the eulogy for my dad because I can't do it so I wrote the eulogy and he said I wanted to deliver it but would you

please deliver it I said yes but I'm going to tell a joke and it's not my joke it's Mel's joke but I'm going to tell it and he said tell me the joke. I said, okay. Mars Goldsmith died at the age of 106.

He was asking for it. That's a great joke. And I went back afterwards And he said Did he get a laugh? I said standing ovation He loved it That's great

He just wanted to laugh I heard Harvey Harvey Korman strikes me as one of those people Who was very funny on stage But not a funny person off stage No he was He was? He was

Not only that He was? He was. He was. Not only that, he was sweet. He was really sweet. And so's Tim. Yeah. And so's Carol. I mean, I never worked with her, but everybody loved her. And he and Tim were actually close friends.

Yeah. Yeah. Tim is, you know, Tim's old man, that walk. Yeah. That's fabulous. Yeah. We got to get Tim on this show. We got to make that happen. Well, he was, we had him on, we had him on Cosby.

Yeah. And it was great. Easy as pie to work with. Wonderful. No doubt about it. I worked with him on an award show and and he was so sweet and so funny. Yeah, the greatest. And humble.

Yeah. Humble and modest. Happy to be working. Yeah. The other thing about Blazing Saddles I just wanted to say is re-watching it, and my wife and I will make an excuse to watch it every month, the love of movies. Oh, yeah.

There's references to, obviously, Hedy Lamarr, but Cecil B. DeMille joke. There's a Douglas Fairbanks joke. There's a Richard to head obviously heady lamar but cecil b demille joke there's a douglas fairbanks joke there's the richard dicks joke there's the laurel and hardy handshake which is just one of the fantastic jokes in the movie it's a gabby hayes joke oh yeah it is so steeped in in in your guys love of movies yeah you know this is like who are the five movie buffs that left out randolph scott And Randolph Scott, of course. But tell us a little bit about the writing process because Pryor bowed out early. You guys were – so it was – It was symbiotic.

Yeah. Mel wanted to recreate your show of shows. Right. That's what I've heard. That's what he wanted and uh we we had instant except for alan who left left after one week uh-huh but and and in a blast of that i don't understand mel kept his name on the script i mean which is very kind yeah very uh almost too kind. But okay. But we, the, Richard came in and ignited the room. Really?

Because it was, everybody in the room was, was so kind to each other and so giving. so kind to each other and so giving. And there was no – later in life when I did My Favorite Year, he called me. There was a script. He asked me to rewrite it. And he said, it's Mel Brooks meets Errol Flynn on the show of shows. And I said, I'll write it, but I'm not going to write you. And he said, why? I said, too abras write it, but I'm not going to write you. And he said, why?

I said, too abrasive. You're too abrasive. I said, I'm going to write myself. He said, okay, fine. The character was even named Steinberg in my favorite year. Was there a reason you called? Only to remind you that you're coming here for dinner tomorrow night. Oh, no, Ma, I can't make it.

Alan Swan's on the show, and they made me his keeper. Alan Swan from the movies? Yeah. Rookie Alan Swan from the movies. So bring him along. Bring Alan Swan to Brooklyn? Well, why not? What are you ashamed of?

Everything. It's funny, with my favorite year, I always thought the story of Mel Brooks and Errol Flynn was where it came from. But you said it's a much older story. Basil Rathbone did your show of shows. Wow. I wrapped my mind around that. And in point of fact, Dick Benjamin, when he came into the picture,

he said this should be an amalgam of Errol Flynn and John Barrymore, which was a stroke of genius. And there's a line in it. Alan Swan goes into the ladies' room, and it's a Barrymore line that Dick came up with when Selma Diamond comes in and said, this is for ladies only. And he's holding his dick and says, so is this, Marm.

But occasionally I have to run some water through. That was Barrymore line. And then to go full circle, when Peter O'Toole came into the picture, he, Barrymore was his idol and, and so much so that in fact, the other thing was that they didn't, the studio did not want Peter O'Toole.

They were afraid of him the same way Warner Brothers was afraid of, of Richie. Because they said, well, he's a drunk. He doesn't drink anymore. He doesn't have a stomach left. They literally took out his stomach. And they said, no, no, get Albert Finney. So we met with Albert Finney, Mel and I, and Dick Benjamin and Mike Gruskoff, the producer.

And he said, I'm tired. I just did Annie and Shoot the Moon. Right. And I need a rest. And he said, but I'm going to say something. And I said this once before. He said, I will do this if you wait for me, but it will be six months. And what I've said this once before, O'Toole's your man.

How about that? And that was so generous. At one act or two, he said, he is this character, and they were in Rada together said, he said, we were, he is this character and they were in Rada together. And he said, when Barrymore died, O'Toole tried to drink himself to death. And he said,

that's, that's how. So he had to play it because they were connecting. Absolutely. The dots were connecting. Benjamin was saying, this is Barrymore.

He had a fondness for Barrymore connecting. Absolutely. The dots were connecting. Benjamin was saying this is Barrymore. He had a fondness for Barrymore. It's just everything fell into place. But the last time, the first time he said it, Finney, Lawrence of Arabia, they offered it to him first. I didn't know that. That's great. And he was, it was after, if you remember Tom Jones. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

That great film. He Tom Jones. Yeah. Oh, yeah. That great film. He was hot. Yeah. And he was dashing and handsome and, you know, he was a real matinee idol. So that was, you know, I mean, it was so generous. And we wanted O'Toole. But this did it for the studio. And what was O'Toole like to work with?

He was a dream. He was not – there was only one day that he didn't show up, and it was a day in the script where he doesn't show up. But he was steady, and he was – like Peter Sellers, there was – he couldn't have brown things. The Sellers couldn't have purple, right? I mean, there was – you can't have anything purple near him. That was a writer in his contract? Yeah, that was.

He asked for nothing, maybe just 12 bottles of Perrier. He was, he knew every single line in the film. And when we offered to him, I said to him, he said, poet. And I said, why are you doing this? He said, the last scene was a shot of Marklin Baker, who was discovered in this. Marklin Baker goes to the grave, Alan Swan's grave, and pours a bottle of Hagen-Hag pinch on the grave. And the camera, and he said, here, I hope some of this gets to you, you crazy bastard.

And the camera tilts up, and it says Alan Swan at peace, and it has a date. And he said, where did you get the date of death? I said, just out of thin air. And it was, he said, it's me birthday. Interesting. Wow. And that put him that he's, he had to do it. He had to do it. And he was a dream. He and Richard Benjamin was also one of the sweetest men who ever lived. So you had a great experience.

Everything was in a state of grace. It truly was. And one thing I had to once again jump out of place. How did they make the fart sounds in Blazing Saddles? Mel did them. Yeah. On his arm. Kau takutkan kata-katamu, How about some more beans, Mr. Taggart? I'd say you've had enough.

The hand under the armpit. A movie you could not watch on regular television, by the way, because the scene is, among other scenes, the scene doesn't exist. Because the scene is, among other scenes, the scene doesn't exist. They had, in the Australian premiere, they had a bean supper. So people were farting all over the place. But he told you the one line that, which surprised me that he didn't put in. Oh, yeah. I saw him at Radio City a couple of weeks ago. The scene with Madeline and Cleavon and the lights are out and she says,

is it true what they say about how you people are gifted, which was her word, which I love. Yeah. Gifted. And then there's a zip and you hear, oh, it's two, it's two. Woof. It's two. Excuse me, Ms. Von Stuck, but you're licking my arm.

Right. That's the one thing the studio made him take out? Yeah. We went, you're sucking my arm, you're biting my arm. He wouldn't. Mel took took it out the studio did how mel took it out the studio didn't take it out i mean with all the other stuff in it it's just why take that i'd heard that hitchcock was a big blazing saddles fan he was and i personally showed uhlya Kazan. Wow. I call him Gaj.

But he was on the lot doing with De Niro. Oh, The Last Tycoon. The Last Tycoon. And I got a call. They said Mr. Kazan would like to see Blazing Saddles. Love it. So I arranged a screening and I went up and I got to meet him and I didn't want to sit with him.

And I left and he called afterwards and said he loved it. It was hilarious. And he was very, it was a real gentleman, even though he sent people to prison. Aside from that. And I heard Mel Brooks became friends with Alfred Hitchcock. He did. He did because he wanted to – the high anxiety. He wanted his approval.

He wanted his approval. He wanted his blessing. And, you know, Mel has a lot of great Alfred Hitchcock dinner stories. Peter Bogdanovich told us a couple too. Yeah. I mean, he was – and he prominently displayed a picture of him and Hitchcock and Ann in his office. Yeah, he was, listen, you know, just to be in their presence. Sure. People like that.

Sure. Where did Rookie Carroca come from in my favorite year? Rookie Carroca. Because it's a stroke of genius. Carroca. Carroca. Was a real guy. And there was a guy, Martin Charnin, who wrote the music for Annie. Oh, yes.

I know that. And wrote the book. And Martin Charnin's father-in-law was Rookie Carroca. And he was a bantamweight. Hilarious. A Filipino. Hilarious. bantamweight. Hilarious. A Filipino bantamweight. Hilarious.

You can't. Speaking of great casts, I mean, and I have a great fondness for that movie. I mean, Bill Macy, Lou Jacoby. Oh, wow. I mean, Adolph Green, Lainey

Kazan, Joe Bologna. Yeah. That's the best thing I think Joe ever did. Oh, he's wonderful. Playingologna. Yeah. That's the best thing I think Joe ever did. Oh, he's wonderful. Playing Sid Caesar. Yeah. Yeah, he is just great. He was so comfortable.

And, yeah, that cast was at first, yeah, the first person in the door for that was Tom Hanks. For the Marklin Baker part. Yeah, the Marklin Baker role. Yeah. And he was just too tall. You know, we figured tall, shorter. Shorter was funnier than a tall. And then he went on, obviously, to do Splash.

And it's funny, like Joe Bologna, who's played tough guy parts on shows. And I heard that Sid Caesar had like he had a temper and he was a strong guy. Yeah. He was he was. Mel has a great story about Sid. Yeah. He was, he was, Mel has a great story about Sid. He was, I don't know where they were, but a cabbie cut him off. Oh, yeah.

You know this story? Yeah, sure. He loves to tell it. Do you remember birth? Right. Go ahead. Yeah, I love it because Mel's stories just morph all the time. They become.

Oh, yeah. But tell the story with the cabbie. It's a hysterical story. So the cabbie cuts Mel off and he cuts Sid off. And Sid pulls around the cabbie, blocks him so that the cabbie cannot move, and gets out of the cabbie and says, no, Sid, cannot move and gets out of the cage. He says, no, Sid, don't, don't, don't. And he goes in and the cabbie sees him coming.

He was a big guy. And he reaches his hand into the window and the cabbie is rolling up the window and there's about that much, there's about eight inches of space. And he grabs him around the neck and he says – and he's trying to drag this guy through the eight inches of space. And the cab driver's head is at the window and he says, do you remember birth? But they had they had he pulled him out through the vent with him

yeah they had a great great time you know there was another story where Mel took took

let me use a sidekick now Uncle Goopy oh Howard Howard Morris you know this story oh yes yes he took him out to Central Park yeah and he held him up now, Uncle Goopy. Oh, Howard Morris. Oh, yes. You know this story. Oh, yes, yes. He took him out to Central Park. Yeah.

And he held him up. He had a gun. He took his wallet and he said, if you tell anybody, I'm going to kill you. He didn't give it back to him until the end of the season. I heard, too, maybe this is Mel Brooks telling. He said then later on he apologized to Howie Morris and they met again. I think they took a rowboat ride and he held him up again. And he made

him walk in the lake. Love Howard Morris. Oh, he was great. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal podcast after this. So as time winds down here, Norman, we've got some wild card questions here.

Do you want to go ahead? Oh, wait. Quick Howie Morris story. Okay. I was at one of these autograph signings, probably the one you drove me to. Oh, the one we went to together? Yes. In Sherman Oaks.

Yes. Where you picked me up like a pedophile. I did. I dragged him to an autograph show 20 years ago. I was walking, and as I walked by one table, I didn't see who was there, and I hear this guy scream out, It's that loudmouthed fucking Jew. And I turn around. Who could be saying?

I turn around and it's Howard Morris. That sounds right. Yeah, Don Knotts was there and Norman Fell. Oh, my God. That was a day. Yeah. That was a day.

So we could ask you about Pavarotti because I'm fascinated by Yes, Giorgio, but also because you work with the great Franklin Schaffner who directed Planet of the Apes and Patton and Papillon and Gilbert's favorite, the boys from Brazil. Oh my God. Great.

You worked with him. I was, I was amazed that he wanted to do this. Why? Why? And I, the first thing I said to him, I went to his house and I said,

there will be no funny tank scenes in this. And he said, I understand. He looked like Dwight D. Eisenhower. He was so patrician. He was such a great man, a great man. And to this day, I don't know why. The movie was Yes, Giorgio. Yes, Giorgio.

It was based on a book. Or See, Giorgio. See, Giorgio. I still remember Gene Siskel's line from the review where there's a line about Finney will water you. Yeah. Him saying, I don't want Finney to water me. Yeah. But you like to say you ended Pavarotti's screen career.

Completely. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think MGM wanted to bring back the musical, the Mario Lanza musical, and he never stepped foot on an opera stage. But Pavarotti was the biggest star in the universe at that point and a totally delightful man.

I could not, I never saw him eat. He always went off somewhere. But he was, he wanted to succeed. And he said he'd lose 50 pounds before the filming. And I remember we had Kate Jackson at one point and she went to Cher and said should I do this film and and Cher said to her never do a film with a star you can't get your arms around and so she backed off and we got um Catherine Harold okay Kitty Harreld, who was Albert Brooks' girlfriend at the time. By the way, that session that you did with his brother –

With Einstein? With Cliff. Oh, yeah. Bob. Bob. Bob was phenomenal. Isn't he the best? Oh, God.

I howled. He just comes out of the gate. Yeah. Oh, God. You howled. He just comes out of the gate. Yeah. Oh, boy. What a family. And I know the other brother, the third brother, Cliff, who's in advertising. Right. But Pavarotti was great.

He had such a sense of – he was so regal. He was so regal. And literally I walk into restaurants with him in Italy and I started going like this, waving to the crowd. But he was revered. And, you know, was it a mistake? Probably not. But, you know, what the hell? Who's going to – but I had two films coming in. It was my favorite year and Pavarotti and Yes, Giorgio.

And I said, how could that guy write these two films? One was so wonderful. The other one – Versatility. Yeah. But it was a great – I have a wonderful picture of my son who's now 35 and Pavarotti with the same hat on. He's in a backpack and Luciano is right next to him. It was – this memory for me is so vivid and so wonderful. so wonderful and every time every time he was at the metropolitan i would go to see him and uh he he's astonishing astonishing i loved him you brought up when things were rotten when you

walked in the room before one gilbert and i have a lot of fond memories of in that cast dick van patten b Bernie Coppell, and Richard Dimitri. And Richard Dimitri was funny. One of the funniest. And he was also in Johnny Dangerous. That's correct. That's right.

He played Roman Maroney, who says things like, call people fogging ice holes. And, in fact, there's a hockey team in South Dakota called the Farging Iceholes. So Richard, Richard is one of the funniest people. That whole cast was great. I can't believe that show lasted 13 episodes. Barry Diller. Yeah.

Barry Diller said, I can't have this on my network. We were canceled with, I think, a 28 share. But it was the era of Barney Miller and Starsky and Hutch. So they were fat with hits. No, it was so much fun. We had two sound stages and horses and all the costumes from the original Robin Hood. Wow. Yeah.

And that was, you know... It's another one of those Mel Brooks projects that has a great affinity for movies. Yeah. For old movies. Absolutely. And then he did Men in Tights. He did Men in Tights. And I called him and said, do you want me to sue you now? Or after?

I said, what are you talking about? We probably should have done it as a film. And I'm getting a signal. Well, we could wrap it in a couple of minutes. And I want to give Norman a chance to plug his course. But I also quickly want to ask you if you have a Pat McCormick story. I did a pilot with Pat McCormick.

Because we'd be remiss if we didn't. It's called The Bay City Amusement Company. I did a pilot with Pat McCormick. Because we'd be remiss if we didn't. It's called the Bay City Amusement Company. Yeah. And he played one of the writers. And the first day he came in, he's waving a piece of paper. He said, I just got my license. I can shit in the streets. and then he sat down at the typewriter and said this is lenny bruce's old typewriter it's got four extra f's on it but you know you know that famous line he said to johnny carson

when when the earthquake hit remember this no i don't know it the line the earthquake hit and on camera the studio literally moved and pat ran out and whispered to johnny carson and and as soon as things settled carson said the god is dead rally is canceled he really was brilliant wasn't he yeah i want to know if you've heard this story, and if not, I'll just cut it out. You're going for the helicopter? Yeah. There's one that Pat McCormick used to get together all of his writer friends, and each one would try to outdo the other as far as for their, like, big dinner of the year.

And when it was Pat McCormick's turn, he took everyone by limousine to this heliport. And then they were all given a bag with a tuna sandwich and an apple in it. And they'd be like, what the hell is this? Because they were used to being in extravagant restaurants. And each one was led one by one into the helicopter. And there'd be a hooker in the helicopter who would blow the guy as the helicopter would circle the guy's house. And one of the writers that night went home and his wife said, so how is your evening? And he goes, oh, I'm okay.

And he goes, how is yours? And she goes, well, it was okay, but there was a helicopter circling my house. Now, Tim Conway kind of confirmed it. Yes, yes. I was doing a commercial with Tim Conway, and I said, look, I heard this story. It can't be true. Pat, and that's all I got out. Pat, and Tim Conway goes,

helicopter? And I go, yeah. And he goes... And he just nods. He died. He was at the actor's home out in Hidden Hills or wherever the hell it is. And somebody came and he was sharing a room, you're like, this is good trivia, with Stanley Kramer.

Oh, my God. Pat McCormick and Stanley Kramer. Jack Riley came into the room, and he said, Pat, I see you finally got a meeting. That's phenomenal. There's so much, Norman. There's so much we could cover. Oh's so much, Norman. There's so much we can cover. We didn't ask about McLean Stevenson or Alan King or free to be you and me and a lot of other stuff.

And Johnny Dangerously we barely touched on and Wise Guys. But tell us about your classes and what you do. Oh, I have a program at Long Island University in Brooklyn, and we meet at the Steiner Studios. Are you familiar with it? Yes, sure. Steiner's 12 sound stages going to 25, and there are eight shows shooting there. It's a program called TV Writer's Studio,

and it's in its eighth year, and it's talk about passing it on. This is great. These kids want to be writers. There's never been a better time in history. Television. It's a renaissance. Television, yeah. Television is in its golden age, and I go out all across the country to recruit writers.

I take about 20 writers a year. And it's been a joy. So this is like you're giving. Yeah. To the writers. Yeah. This is. What Belkin told you to do so many years ago.

I wanted to get out of Los Angeles. So did I. Yeah. I wish I'd met you and you'd given me that advice all those years ago. I wish I had given myself that advice. Find a place. Find a home. Yeah.

This is home. And anything else you need to plug. Yeah. No, no, no. You're writing again. Yeah, I'm writing. I'm doing a book for a musical with a guy named Charlie Fox and Arthur Hamilton. Charlie Fox wrote Killing Me Softly.

The Charlie Fox? The Charlie Fox. Love American style theme. Exactly. Ready to take a chance again. Wow. Yeah. Barry Manilow. He American style theme. Exactly. Ready to take a chance again. Wow. Yeah. Barry Manilow.

He's a legend. Yeah. Charlie Fox and Arthur Hamilton who wrote Cry Me a River. Wow. We're doing a musical version of School for Scandal. Wow. Yeah. That's cool.

And then next I'm going to do Johnny Dangerously. That's when Michael Keaton is free he as a producer not not not a star so charlie fox wrote ready to take a chance i believe yes he did charles s remind me i live in a shell safe from the past i'm'm doing okay, but not very well. No jolts, no surprises. No crisis arises. My life

goes along as it should. It's all very nice, but not very good. And I'm ready to take a chance again. Ready to put my love on the line with you. He sang this to Chubb.

You're living with nothing to show for it. You get what you get when you go for it. And I'm ready to take a chance again. Ready to take a chance again with you. When she left me in all my despair. He's going to do the whole song. I just held on. Would you apologize to Charlie

Fox? My hope was all gone till I found you there. And I'm ready to take a chance again. Great.

Ready to take a chance again. Ready. Great. Great. He doesn't sing for every guest, Norman. You should be honored. And I want to tell our listeners to, if you haven't seen My Favorite Year, do so immediately. Thank you. Norman Steinberg.

Thank you, buddy. Thank you. It's been a pleasure. Oh, thank you. And I am a dedicated fan. You are an entertaining fellow. Thank you. You lost a job.

You lost a job because you said, no, I think Gilbert Gottfried's funny. That's how I'm looked upon. By the way, what was that? That they fire people for saying that. What was that thing about comedy and music being connected, by the way? Oh, yes. I think we blew that to shit.

Thanks, Norman. Thank you.