Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - GGACP Weekend Bonus Episode: Alan Alda's M*A*S*H Reunion

Episode Date: March 22, 2019

Gilbert and Frank show their appreciation for previous guest Alan Alda by posting this M*A*S*H cast reunion show (from Alan's podcast "Clear + Vivid") as a special GGACP Weekend Bonus Episode (for those who may have missed it): M*A*S*H is the most beloved and one of the most watched TV shows of all time. It set viewing records that have never been broken and is ranked as one of the top 25 shows of all time. In this exclusive podcast, actors from this legendary show gather together for an uproarious and totally candid conversation about how they learned to connect with one another to create their special brand of entertainment on the screen and lifelong friendships off-camera. Join Alan Alda (“Capt.Benjamin Franklin "Hawkeye" Pierce”),Loretta Swit (“Maj. Margaret "Hot Lips" Houlihan”),Jamie Farr (“Sgt. Maxwell Q. "Max" Klinger),Mike Farrell (Capt. B. J. Hunnicutt), and Gary Burghoff (Cpl. Walter "Radar" O'Reilly) for this intimate gathering of your M*A*S*H pals. The gang invites you to share in the memories and the laughter. Mostly the laughter — after all this is the 4077th. This episode is sponsored by the Alan Alda Center for Communicating Science at Stony Brook University, please visit aldacenter.org/vivid [aldacenter.org] for more details. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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It's the sound of the Smarties Blizzard plus cookie dough. Hurry in for the new Smarties Cookie Collision Blizzard for a limited time at DQ. Happy tastes good. This special episode of Clear and Vivid is brought to you by the Alan Alda Center for Communicating Science at Stony Brook University in New York. When scientists talk to the public, when they teach, when they collaborate with others outside of their field,

when they try to raise funds, or when they try to change public policy, it's urgent that they communicate as well as they can. Helping scientists around the world to be clear and vivid is the specialty of the Alan Alda Center for Communicating Science. I'm Alan Alda, and this is Clear and Vivid, conversations about connecting and communicating. A lot of what I do in my life, including this podcast, had its roots in TV shows. For 11 years as the host of Scientific American Frontiers on PBS,

I interviewed hundreds of scientists. But even before that, there was a show that began an 11-year run in 1972. More than 35 years after the cameras stopped rolling, MASH is still shown on screens around the world, and it certainly still lives in the hearts of those who made it. The idea that good communication depends on how we relate to the other person was something I began to learn while I was acting on MASH. So we really had to do an episode of Clear and Vivid where I could get together with

Loretta Switt, Mike Farrell, Gary Berghoff, and Jamie Farr and talk about how we learned to relate the way we did. It took some doing because we're spread out around the country now. We connected through phone and internet. And as soon as we heard one another's voices, the kidding and the laughing began. Jamie, Jamie, it's good to see you. How are you doing? Hi there, sweetie. Okay, wait, let's not leave it in the dressing room. Let's get the other guy on.

Oh, here comes the great Mike Farrell. Hey, bro. Hey, kiddo. How are you doing? I'm good, thank you. I'm good. Now, Gary, do we have him on the phone? Hello?

Hello, Gary. There he is. Hi, Gar. Hi, Loretta. on the phone? Hello. Hello, Gary. There he is. Hi, Gar. Hi, Loretta. How are you? Great. We're all great. We can't see you, unfortunately.

We can only hear you. So listen, you know what? Let me start us off. This is really so great that we can all get together like this, technologically, from one coast to another. You can hear Mike opening up a can of beer or something. What are you opening? Yeah, it's a can of beer. You know, you've changed since we worked together.

It's spinach, spinach. You know, kidding each other like this reminds me of what I thought would be fun to get into a little bit with you guys because the show is about, as you know, the show is about communication a lot and relating. There's a show? The show we're on now, Clear and Vivid. Oh, oh. I didn't realize. We're doing a show, Mike. I thought this was like a good telephone call.

It wasn't very clear and vivid to Mike, apparently. It actually is, Mike. That is what it is. Mike, I'll have to explain to you after we go off how to listen to clear and vivid. I think you'd really enjoy it, especially because you're on it. This is the only show I've ever done where I have no union to cover it. This is the only show I've ever done where I have no union to cover it. Wait, the show isn't over yet, Gary.

Yeah, right. I have a feeling you guys are going to organize before the show is over. We'll leave that to Mike. Well, here's what I wanted to ask you about, because something happened while we we were doing mash that really made a deep impression i mean many things made a deep impression but it changed the way i worked as an actor and it was the beginning of changing the way i even related to other people in real life and it was the way we sat around in our chairs between shots and didn't go back to our dressing rooms and just sat there for an hour sometimes at a time making fun of one another and laughing and often we'd go over our lines together but the most valuable thing to me was that relating that we did and laughing together and then we would walk

when the lighting was ready we'd walk to the, and the same connection that we had as people carried over into the scene. And I remember times when we didn't even stop the kidding until right before the first person had a line to say. Actually, Alan, I've seen, my memory has some of us walking over to dailies still doing that, still running lines. And I remember one very funny thing I saw was you and Wayne Rogers running the lines of a scene that we had already printed. That's right. I said, guys, hello, excuse me. May I tell you something? But it wasn't a wasted effort because I remember so clearly, and I think we all had this feeling that the show was more important than any one of us individually.

And Wayne and I, on the night we finished our first day shooting, we went out to dinner together and had a really, really genuine heart-to-heart talk where we said we're going to put the show ahead of everything else. And that led to our doing a scene one day. And at the end of the scene, at the end of the shooting day, we said, I bet we could do that better. And we stood in front of one of the trailers as though the trailer were the camera. And we played the scene again. I said, now we got it. But that helped us in later scenes in other shows. Absolutely.

But did anybody play, was it just me, or did you also find something of value in the way we would sit around and make contact with one another? Well, of course. I still sit around and talk to all of you. And make contact, absolutely. I called Mike last night. No, he doesn't. Mike can do it without a telephone. That's what scares me.

But Gary, what were you going to say? No, I'm just agreeing with you. It was of monumental importance to keep that energy going between us. You know, as individuals, we had a common goal together. And we had so much in terms of the work circumstances, so much in common.

And also, part of that was humor. And, you know, the fact that we can sit around now and laugh the way we're doing just by talking to one another, that's very similar to the way it was in between shots. Yeah, I love laughing is good. We all enjoyed laughing together. I actually miss that when you do other shows. You see the cast members.

They get around. They just run the lines, and then they're off on the telephone, or they're busy doing something else. And I really do miss our contact that we had because sometimes when we did sit around and run the lines, we'd find things that we didn't realize were there. Were there, absolutely. And would use them in the scene and to hopefully make the scene better. Linville and I used to go off on our own and work out little funny things together and then come back to the director and show him or her what we had done. And 10 times out of 10, they'd like it. Oh, yeah, no, that's good, that's good.

And you can't always do that with other people. No, especially if, as Jamie says, people go off on their own and just handle the mechanics of it together. Also, Alan, let me tell you, I've been working on a show lately, and it's totally different than our one camera show that we had, where you would get the script, you'd read the script, and then if there was any kind of disagreements, it would be settled before we got to the camera, and then we would keep the lines the way everybody said it was going to go. Today, what they do is they have so many writers on the set. They have a lot of cameras. It's all digital and they will not stay with the lines necessarily. The writers will say, hey, let's

try this one now. Let's try that. Print that one. Let's try another one. And you can go on and on and on. It's not the way we did it where we tried to perfect whatever it is that we had. We just keep changing it. Yeah, I've been through that experience. It's getting to be a new style. Yes. I wouldn't want anybody to think from this conversation that we lack discipline because I can remember that if a line change was a big deal,

you get on the telephone, you call Larry Gelbart or whoever was the head writer. Correct. And you had to clear it with them before you could change a line. We were operating on, you know, there's no freedom without discipline. And we were all. I thought we were very disciplined. Very much so. We all came from the theater.

Most of us did. I am. And in the theater, you know, the word is sacrosanct. And one time, you must all know this story. I have to look up that word. I think I pronounced it wrong. Take a moment, Jamie. You'll never find it in the dictionary. I just pronounced it wrong.

I'd like to know how you found it. But Wayne and I were out on location, you know, in the early days when they didn't think we were going to be a hit. And they didn't even have a telephone out there in the mountains where we shot. And we paid for our own coffee. Yeah, right, right. And our own peanut butter. Oh, I tell that story about the peanut butter and the coffee. Wait, wait, wait.

Let me tell you about Wayne and me. This has to do with how disciplined we were. We were out there ready to shoot the scene. And there was a line as we went over our lines before the shot, Wayne said, do you know what this line means? And I said, I don't know. I'm supposed to say it, but I can't figure it out. I said, and we both agreed that it was probably a Larry Gail Bart great witticism.

And Larry was one of the great writers. And so I said, it probably means something I don't get, but it's a great joke, I'm sure. So I said it the way it was written. The next day, we were looking at the rushes. And Larry was sitting right next to me. And the line came up. And Larry said, why did you say that? I said, it's in the script.

He said, that's a typo. And we had to shoot it again, but that's how disciplined we said things we didn't even know what they meant. We had such blind faith. Jamie, what were you going to tell us, Jamie? No, about the peanut butter. Remember when we got the thing from Mark Evans about we were eating too much peanut butter? And we all went, all seven of us, we went to Cy Salkowitz, who was then the head of the TV department. All seven of us, and we put on a $100 bill, each one of us. And he says, what's that for?

He said, the peanut butter. We're eating more. He said, you're eating peanut butter? What do you want? Smoothie? Crunchy? And the next day, if you remember, they had cartons of peanut butter that went from the floor to the ceiling that they gave us, the peanut butter.

But they gave us the smallest soundstage. They had no confidence in us, which I think was good because it made us work harder. We had to solve problems. And no bathroom. We had to go across the street. How long did it take till we had a bathroom on the soundstage? About six years, I think. Yeah.

And, you know, it's hard to hold it in that long. McClain said he had so many ants in his dressing room do you remember no he said yeah one day he said he said one of his army boots was moving across army of ants were moving and then the rats uh the uh where we had rats on stage night. Mike's been back there. Not the rats, but Mike has been back there and saw the soundstage when he did. Hey, congratulations, Mike, on the Versace series, the miniseries.

I understand it won some Golden Globe Awards. You were on that, sir. I didn't know that. Me either. Congratulations, Mike. Why don't you keep us informed of. Congratulations. Why don't you keep us informed of these things? Why don't you tell us

about that? I was unhappy with the outcome of the murder. Outcome. Yeah. Well, tell us about that. No, no. It's one of those things.

I was offered this part and I said I'd like to see the whole script and I did and I thought it was really like to see the whole script and I did and I thought it was really exciting to be able to do this character. And without getting into the whole story, they cut out the really exciting parts of it. Were you playing a bad guy? I was playing a man. It's a famous story. And he's a real he was a real individual, one of the people that this man killed.

But he had a double life. He had a he was a gay man, married, and his wife is in denial today about that, wrote a whole book about it and it ended up being the subject of a potential lawsuit against fox and the and you did this is all this is this is all conjecture on my part because nobody has told me this what they told me was i couldn't see the footage that they cut out and no one could see the footage that they cut out. Jesus, you know, that's amazing. I've never known you to be that bad. No, it's true. I said, let me see it because I want to know if I was as bad as that. As you're inferring. I mean, I've made bad movies, but to hide the footage.

But wait, Mike, tell them when you went back to the soundstage, stage nine, and you heard all the – Oh, that was great. That was absolutely fabulous when you wrote about that to tell all of us. Thank you. Yeah, no, it was wonderful. We shot on stage 10, this thing I did. And I said, I've got to walk over and walk into stage nine. And I did.

And everything, just as the experience we're having here, everything came back to me. Scotty and the crew and Will and the sounds. Marty Lowenheim. Marty Lowenheim and the gang and the circle of chairs we sat in. I mean, I was just deeply moved just by being in there with the ghosts of that show all around me. It was wonderful. And of course, for me, this is one of the great experiences of my life. So I knew I was going to be seeing something that meant

something to me, but I had no idea I was going to be as affected as I was. I haven't been back to that soundstage. Is anybody else besides Mike? Yes, I have. Did you have a similar experience? Yes, I did. Of course, the soundstage looks more modern today, and even the bathroom is better. They finally put toilets in.

And it's finally soundproof. They took the trees out and the bushes. It was fabulous. And some of the crew people at Fox that were on the lot when we were there are still there. And I cannot tell you the degree of, how can I say it, honor that they give all of us and remember the show. And it was just something very special in not only my life, but those lives of those people that worked on the show. Except the guy who found the box we buried. Yes, I know that.

Does Arlene still have the pictures of that? I think so. But let me explain to anybody listening who doesn't know what we're talking about. In the next to last episode, the story was that the people in the MASH unit buried a time capsule of some belongings that they had that they would leave for other people to find someday. So, Jamie, didn't you get the idea that we should bury our own capsule? Yeah, yeah. And then I tried to find a place that would not be dug up. And I did find the place that was dug up.

It was right by the commissary. I figured they'd never do anything by that commissary. Fox, which was dedicated to some extent to art but mostly to business, sold half their commissary and cut it in half to build an office building. And they were digging up the ground next to the commissary where we had buried our own beloved treasures for somebody to find. So six months, we thought it would be found in 20 years or 50 years, you know. So somebody called me on the construction crew and said, look, I found this chest, this smashed chest. What am I supposed to do with it? I said, well, you found it, so it's yours. He said, what am I going to do with this? And he wasn't really sentimental about it.

And he wasn't really sentimental about it. Just think about how I felt, guys. I was afraid that you buried my teddy bear in that. Oh, because you weren't part of burying things at that point. We buried a stand-in teddy bear. Did you take your teddy bear home with you, by the way? No, I didn't know. As you remember, it was left so that it could appear in subsequent episodes. Oh, you know, I didn't even know that.

I knew it and forgot it. Then I apologize, Gary. We did bury your teddy bear. Yeah, we did. I'm sure we buried his teddy bear. I don't know, but I don't remember that. Where did it wind up? Did it wind up in the Smithsonian?

It wound up with the owner, who happened to be the original set designer, and none of us knew that. And he put it up, and when he retired, he put it up for auction. I got wind up of it, and I got a friend to help me buy it, and then my friend put it up for auction and sold it out from under me of it. And, uh, I, I got a friend to help me buy it. And then, uh, my friend put it up for auction and sold it out from under me a couple of years later. This is a tragic story. You know,

if we could find that guy, we might be able to find that lost film that, uh, Mike Farrell is talking about. Anywhere. I wish him well. Oh, that's good. That's very, that's very, Oh, that's good.

That's very commiserable. Look that one up, too. Wait a minute. Is that sacrosanct? I've got to look that one up. Sacrosanct. Sacrosanct. Is that Italian, Alan?

So you're reminding me. I kept from the show my boots and dog tags. Did anybody else keep keepsakes? Yeah. Yes. Indeed. Oh, yeah. I have my boots.

I have my pink shirt. And dog tags. And you already kept dog tags? I have the silver dog tags that you, Alan, made for us for Christmas, which I value greatly. And I have the game that you made for us. Oh, that game. The last game, prototype. I know I made a game out of it.

I have the fuzzy pink slippers. I have the Mary Janes that I wore when I was the Wizard of Oz. I had those. When you were Dorothy. Yeah, and, of course, I wore my own dog tags, you know, on the show. Oh, you did? I forgot Dorothy. Yeah, and of course I wore my own dog tags, you know, on the show. Oh, you did? I forgot that. Yeah.

I would have kept my pink robe, but I buried it in the time capsule. Oh, you did? No kidding. I hope it fits that construction worker. Yeah, pretty. Very pretty robe. Do you remember that Jay, the guy that dug the hole and buried it? Yeah, I really dug it.

Remember the shovel? Gave us the shovels? Yeah. I dug it. I really dug it. I know what? Gave us the shovels? Yeah. I dug it. I know what I wanted to ask you, Jamie. Do you remember all the famous dresses that you wore in the show? They had been worn by great stars before you. Yes, I do.

Nobody will know this one, but Dame May Whitty was one of them. Betty Grable. You wore Betty Grable's own personal dress? I had a personal dress alice fay and my favorite one was that gold lame that uh kelly and i did the uh dancing cheek to cheek as fred astaire and ginger rogers and uh the show was aired and the next day i was in the commissary and ginger rogers was there she was doing a love boat, and she came over to me, and she said, Jamie, I saw the show last night, and you know, that dress looked a hell of a lot

better on you than it did on me. She was so delightful. And that outfit, incidentally, is in the Smithsonian, that gold. No kidding. Yeah. And did you wear one of Milton Berle's dresses? No, but you know what? One of the Bob Hope specials we did was the comedians were all supposed to come over to Bob Hope's house to watch the Super Bowl game. And the gag was that Milton Berle and I show up wearing the same dress. That's great. While we were shooting MASH, we were doing more than relating to one another, of course. We were also communicating with the rest of the country. But what exactly did we feel we were saying with the show?

When we come back after a short break, I ask my pals what they thought about that at the time. Introducing TD Insurance for Business with customized coverage options for your business. Because at TD Insurance, we understand that your business is unique, so your business insurance should be too. Whether you're a shop owner, a pet groomer, a contractor,

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This is one of many sounds in Tennessee with a story to tell. To hear them in person, plan your trip at tnvacation.com. Tennessee sounds perfect. One of the embarrassing things about saying the name of the sponsor of this episode is that I have to keep saying my own name over and over again. Sarah, you do it. It's the Alan Alda Center for Communicating Science. Thank you. That feels much better. Here's a little bit about us. This year, the center will be celebrating our 10th anniversary, and in that time we've trained over 14,000 scientists and medical professionals. We do anywhere from 100 to about 150 workshops every year with companies,

universities, and nonprofit foundations, and we work all over the world. The goal is to teach scientists, doctors, and researchers to be more effective and more relatable when they're communicating with the rest of us. Right, so that science, medicine, and technology can be better understood by us, the general public, and also by the people making big decisions about our lives and government. So if you'd like to learn more about the Alda Center and our work with Alan over the last 10 years and the many training opportunities that we provide, you can visit aldacenter.org slash vivid. That's aldacenter.org slash vivid. Great. Thanks, Sarah. And now back to my conversation with my pals from MASH. What's your impression about what we were communicating to the rest of the country while we were doing the show?

Because I had the impression that people thought we were communicating something other than what we were doing. For instance, many people said, oh, it says it's about Korea, but it's really about Vietnam. I always thought it was about Korea. I agree with you, Alan. I never thought it was about Vietnam, but I didn't think it was about, I didn't think we were making anti-war statements as much as we were making pro-humanity statements. Yeah, I felt that way too. I think Gelbart said the best thing about that. It didn't matter what war it was.

It was a backdrop of all terrible wars. And it had nothing to do with where or what. It was really about war. But you couldn't avoid the comparison to what was going on in Vietnam at the time. No, and I guess we reflected a point of view that many people had of disagreement with the war, which after the war spread to a lot of the rest of the population, even among those who hadn't been too worried about the war to start with. But I didn't get, some people even thought that we contributed to the end of the war. People have said that, and I don't see that.

I thought we were just more like what Gary just said. We were telling human stories. Stories, right. Right. Under the worst possible circumstances known to mankind, you know? Yeah, yeah. Alan, one of the lines I still remember, and it was a great line, is as Hawkeye, you're kind of fed up with all of the operations going on, and you take a little bit of a respite and sit on a bench, and

McLean Stevenson's character, Colonel Blake, comes over and sits next to you, and I think he kind of puts his arm around you, and you show your expression of distaste for all of this. And he says that there are rules of war. Rule number one is that people die, soldiers die in wars. And rule number two is doctors can't change, rule number one. And I just remember that line. You wouldn't find that in a situation comedy at all, but that one just hit me very hard. That was from an episode called Sometimes You Hear the Bullet.

Sometimes You Hear the Bullet, which showed us really what we could be, I think. I mean, that was an important episode for us. It was a turning point in the show. Probably season three, would you say? No, I think it was season one. I think the first time on a show a patient died, and the network was really upset. I think the guy who ran the network said, what is this, a situation tragedy? tragedy. And Larry Gelbart, I think, from that point on, felt freer to be more out front with the pain and the tragedy that those people must have lived through.

I didn't remember that it was so soon. My impression is that, but I'm probably wrong. But I think it was early. Anybody remember what season it was? I don't. No, of course not, you silly twit. I wasn't there yet. But we missed you, Mike. But I was watching.

We missed you already. I know. Does that make sense? No, it's not sacrosanct. Yeah, we pre-missed you. Yeah, we pre-missed you. I actually like that. You like what?

That you've missed me before I got there. You know how much I love you. I personally am getting dizzy. You know what I loved about, one of the things that I thought was really interesting, we were talking about how we made connections with one another. We made connections with our characters, too. connections with one another. We made connections with our characters too. And there was an effort on Loretta's part and on Jamie's part. I get the impression that you were both very active in finding ways to make your characters more three-dimensional, more human and not just a one-note thing. I mean, Jamie's first scene was just a one-note thing of this guy wearing a dress to try to get out of the Army.

And nobody, none of the writers knew any more about him than that. Little by little, it grew. And Loretta's early scenes were just defined by the nickname Hot Lips. And you worked really hard to get that to be a real three-dimensional woman with a name, Margaret. I did. Yeah, I did. And the difference between those two names was really gigantic. That's right. How about Walter? You know, I worked at that, too.

Oh, you know, tell about that. That's right. I forgot about that. Well, you know, when you have a character that only has a nickname, in my case it was Radar, I was always wondering, you know, how do you flesh him out completely and make him a real person? And that's why I asked Larry and Gene one day if they could please give me what we refer to as a Christian name. And they said, what name would you like? And I don't know why I said it, although I had a little playmate when I was a little boy named Walter Pitkey.

Yeah, that's amazing. How did you choose that? I don't know. It just popped out of me. And to this day, Walter Pitkey is no longer with us, but his brother Peter Pitkey emails me all the time. Oh, that's nice. From Forestville, Connecticut. But that's so amazing that you were playing this part and it didn't even have a first name.

It didn't even have a first name. Yeah. And, you know, I think a name is very important. Mike, was it ever determined what B.J. stands for? I can't remember. Yeah, sure. We did a whole show about it. B.E.J.

I always thought it was a lie. B.E.A. and J-A-Y. People ask me today what B-J stands for, and I keep saying, anything you like. Oh, and I like the resolution in the episode. That was her name, Mom's name was B-E-A. Mom's name was J-A-B. I thought Mom's name was J and Dad's name was B. No, you got it wrong.

Mike, I think it was in honor of Billy Jurgensen, our technical director. Yeah. Actually, when I had the interview about the possibility of coming on to the show, I said one of the things I thought would not make sense is for somebody to come in and be Trapper John again or try to be. And they said, oh, no, no, of course not. What we know now is this character is going to be named BJ. And they talked about Billy Jurgensen at the time. Yes. A little moment of silence there again.

Well, Bill's no longer with us. He's a wonderful man, Billy Jurgensen, and a very talented, you know, technical director. When one of us started directing the rest of us, what was that? Did we carry over that same camaraderie, or was the person directing that week in a different space? I seem to remember, well, we would all get the giggles sometimes at five o'clock in the afternoon if we've been shooting in the same tight space all in a different space. I seem to remember, we would all get the giggles sometimes at five o'clock in the afternoon if we'd been shooting in the same tight space all day. And whoever,

whichever one of us was directing that week didn't find it funny that the giggles would go on and on and on and on. And I remember saying sometimes as the director, people. Yeah, we became people. We were no longer colleagues. I remember laughing one time. We were laughing so hard. I was, frankly, on the floor laughing. You were on the floor. Tears were jetting out of your face. I've never

seen anything like it. And Bert Metcalf said, children, children. But didn't you all find that if you tried to stop giggling, that was the worst thing? It got worse, absolutely. Well, how about when they would call the suits in from the front office? And then the people with the suits started laughing, and then they had to get them off the set. the people with the suits started laughing and then they had to get them off the set how about that time alan when you were directing all seven of us in the uh in the uh colonel potter's office and uh you you you didn't think that first take uh was okay i forgot was it casey who was on the camera he was a camera operator and uh you said, we better take this again. We did like about 15 or 20 more takes.

And what you did is you printed the very first one. That was the one that went on the air. I was a little crazy in those days. A little? Yeah. We often did many takes. I remember sometimes some of the scenes that looked the most improvisational were the result of many takes and many rehearsals so that it could be done with a light touch and the timing would be just pinpoint. And it was what we were talking about, about the discipline before.

We found ways, I think, very often to do things over and over so that they would look like we were doing them for the first time. I remember one time you were directing, we were in the swamp, and I was doing push-ups. And we had to keep doing the damn scene because you couldn't make the basket with the— Oh, yes, with the— Oh, I was trying to throw a wad of paper into a basket over my head. I was doing it with my back to the basket. And I knew I could do it. I just needed 20 or 30 tries.

At one point, David Hawks came over and he said, how are you doing? I've counted 100 push-ups so far. Well, you were always— But, Mike, you're in such good shape. Yeah, you were always annoying that way. Did you all know that we could never cross the soundstage without Mike trying to walk behind me and trip me? I was thinking of tying your boots together again. Oh, you did that.

I forgot that. boots together again. Oh, you did that. I forgot that. Is that why you took up bicycling around the stage so that he couldn't trip you anymore? No, but I've taken up boxing now, so watch your step. Yeah, that's true. You know what we haven't talked about are our comrades who are no longer with us and the wonderful contribution they made to communicating on that show. The Harry Morgans, the McLean Stevenson's, the Larry Linville, David Ogden Stiers. Wayne. We're dwindling. Yeah.

Wayne Rogers. Yeah, Wayne. Exactly. And. Wayne Rogers. Yeah, Wayne. Exactly. And great contribution. And they became part of the show immediately. It didn't take them very long to fit in with everybody. It was like getting into an old shoe.

Yeah, that was miraculous. Yes, it was. It just, you guys just, you know, we have Mike here, just melted into our family. There was no segue. It was just amazing. Harry, same thing. And Harry was even more difficult, I think, because he was in an episode in which he played this crazy general who flipped at dawn, remember? Yeah, and then played a completely different character.

Yeah, and it didn't matter. It was gone. And Bill Christopher wasn't. Yeah, and it didn't matter. It was gone, and, you know, he was— And Bill Christopher wasn't— Oh, Bill. Yes, what a—oh, I certainly miss him. What a charm he was. I still say that he brought people back to the church. Could be.

You know, Alan, it wasn't just professional. You know, all of these people are missed as friends. That's right. That gets back to that thing we were saying before. We made such close contact that we miss one another more as friends than even as colleagues. And Arbus. Oh gosh, yeah, Alan Arbus. Charlie Dubin, High Averbach, all the wonderful directors that we

had too. My favorite memory of Charlie, we were, again, trapped in the last scene of the day in Potter's office. That always made us giggle, Potter's office. Because there was no air. We weren't breathing any air. We were crazed. Hopefully it wasn't in the scene to take up the air. That was one of the times when Mike was on the floor screaming. He couldn't stop crying.

And there's Charlie in the corner on his high chair, and his head, he just clasped, and he's saying, Please, please, people. That was one of the things about stage nine is the ventilation was defective. about stage 9 is the ventilation was defective. And we would often fall asleep due to lack of oxygen. Does anybody remember? Sure. Absolutely. I was asleep at the time.

I don't remember. I would take naps in the swamp until the bed bugs got me, and I didn't go back in. Or we would sit and put ourselves into this little trance we talked about, remember? We'd just, you don't remember. Okay. Alan. I have a blank look on my face. That was the look. You were like, put yourself into a little trance and take a little

two-minute nap. You were telling me, Loretta, you were telling me before about scenes that, moments that you remember that still make you laugh. And you made me laugh when you were telling me about gary remember the scene we were both in where you were trying to take off your shorts gary he had a he had to examine you it was it was always in our outtakes every year because it you couldn't take off your pants without laughing. And it just, we must have done 15 different takes or 20 takes.

Yeah, yeah. And it got worse and worse. And what Gary didn't know was happening when he was trying to do it without laughing, Alan would look into the camera and say, he's not going to be able to make it. He's not going to make it, yeah. And would go back to the scene, and Gary there, he would be trying to take off his pants and it'd crack up. And Alan then would go back to the camera saying, see, I told you, he's not going to

be able to do this. And it would take after take after take. Well, I had never taken off my pants so close to an actor before. A real doctor would have been okay, you know. See, it was your fault, Alan. I know. I understand how he feels. Gary, you remember walking in on me and Alan.

I was giving him a shot in his gluteus maximus at his insistence. And you walked in and said, oh, excuse me. And he collapses. So we're talking about that scene. And, Gary, when you saw my leg, you came into my tent and you saw my leg and said. It reminds me of my pony back home. It reminds me of my pony back home. It reminds me of my pony back home. That's hilarious.

The only regret I walked away from on MASH was that they didn't write more scenes for you and I. I tell you, Gary, I still, when I come upon it in the reruns, I watch it just because it is just like a piece

of crystal. So the next morning, I run into Larry Gelbart at the peanut butter machine. And I say to him, last night, Gary and I did a scene. I've never laughed so hard. He was, I mean, and I went on and on and on. He said, I can't wait to see it. I can't wait to see it. And I walked away thinking, oh, my God, I've overdone it. He's not even going to think it's funny. And so unfortunately, he insisted on

sitting next to me in dailies to watch this very funny scene that I raved about. But he did. He laughed so hard, he slapped my leg. It went flying up like I was taking a test. And he loved it. He thought it was just as funny as we thought when we were shooting. Mike, what about the practical jokes we used to play on everyone? And you tell that story the very best with David Ogden Stiers and the yogurt, the frozen yogurt at the commissary with Richard Attenborough. Oh, please tell that story. If people hadn't heard it, it's just absolutely wonderful. It all started because in the commissary, when a bunch of us were seated together, Loretta and Jamie, I think Bill, and the woman who was on our crew for a while.

Michelle. Michelle. Michelle. We walked in, Michelle, my belle. That's right. Anyway, we were all sitting having lunch, and Harry, and at the time, you know, a lot of big stars came and visited the show and told us how much they loved it, and they made notes and sent letters and what have you. Harry was with us at the table, and at the end of our lunch, a bunch of waiters came over in a very big procession and sat down before each of us a very fancy dessert. It was, at that time, soft frozen yogurt was a new deal.

And they said, compliments of Sir Richard Attenborough. And we thought, oh, my Lord, Sir Richard Attenborough likes us, likes our show. And he was sitting at the time. He was directing a feature at Fox. He was sitting across the room in the commissary. And we all turned and said, kind of waved to him and said, thank you, Sir Richard. That's so kind of you. And he ignored us completely.

And we thought, well, maybe he didn't hear us. So we said in the locker, oh, Sir Richard didn't hear us, so we said it in a louder way. Oh, Sir Richard, it was so kind of you. Thank you, sir. Total, total ignoring us. And Harry stood up and said, Dickie, Dickie, thank you, sir. Thank you. And as I'm looking at Sir Richard and my eyes swept across the room and at the other side of the commissary is David Stiers sitting by himself laughing to beat the band and having created this insane situation. So I said to everybody, hold it, hold it.

I think we've been had here. I think we have to sit down and shut up. The waiter came over with the check, and of course on it was the cost of the desserts. So I said, take this to Mr. St signs it, and then gets up and walks out. And I thought, oh, man, I can't let this be. So I raced out of the commissary and chased him down. I said, David, David, David, you really got us. Damn you. But you didn't have to pay for it. He said, oh, it's okay, Mike. I signed Gary Berghoff's name to it. Well, I wasn't even there. name to it. Well, I wasn't even there.

Gary wasn't there, so I said, oh, God, well, I'll catch him tomorrow morning, and I'll explain to him what happened so he won't feel bad about it. Anyway, so the next day, Alan, and I mean Loretta and Jamie and I,

and I think you, Alan, were sitting around doing the lines for the upcoming scene, first thing. And Gary, the door slams open and Gary comes racing in and gets in Jamie's face and he says, how dare you use my name like that? You could never, how dare you? Just chewed him up one side and down the other and then turned around and raced out. And I said, Jamie was horror stricken. And I jumped up and I said, oh my Lord. And I ran outside and I caught Gary in the street. I said, Gary, Gary, wait a minute, please understand this was a joke.

And he said, Mike, David made me do that. He caught me this morning and he explained it all and he told me to come in and I said, oh, that dirty so-and-so. I'll tell you what, here's what you do. David doesn't know you've done it, right? And he said, no, David wasn't there. And I said, okay, the next scene is one in the post-op with Loretta and me and David. How about if you come in then and do the same thing you did to Jamie, but do it to me? And he said, great idea. So we went in, set up the scene, Bert was directing,

and as we're setting it up, Gary comes running in and he jumps up right in my face and says, how dare you do that, you big so-and-so, you can't do, you take advantage of my name. And we had a whole bunch of people standing, guests watching the scene. And I said, whoa, whoa, wait a minute, Peanut. And he said, Peanut, why you big... He said, you want to step

outside? I said, let's go. And out we went across behind the psych. And as we left, I saw David with a look on his face was, uh-oh, what have I done now? And Gary and I got behind the cyclorama. And Gary started banging his fist on the wall and screaming. And I was smacking my fist into my hand. And we were having just a wonderful brawl. And we heard David come running, running around and he got to the end of the psych and I grabbed Gary and picked him up. And he was waving his arms and screaming as David came around the corner saying, Mike, Mike, no, wait, Mike. I was

shaking Gary and Gary was going on. And David got up to us and he said, it was Mike, it was Mike. And we turned to him and looked and laughed in his face. And he said, oh God. And he dropped to his knees and said, never again. And he lied. Yes, he lied. He did it again and again. Absolutely.

We'll be back with the gang in a minute. You know, one of the really nice things of having been a part of MASH is that people are often stopping me on the street to tell me they became a doctor because of seeing me play Hawkeye. That's really wonderful. Yeah, nobody ever says I made them want to become an actor. Well, for those who did become doctors, they might want to know about a couple of special medical immersion workshops the Center is doing in 2019. These are taking place on August 5th and 6th at Stony Brook University on Long Island, and October 7th and 8th at the SUNY Global Center in Midtown Manhattan. So if you're a doctor or other medical professional and you'd like to apply to attend any of these two-day immersions, please visit allthecenter.org slash vivid

and click on workshops to learn more. Spaces are limited, so go to allthecenter.org slash vivid. This episode is brought to you by FX's The Bear on Disney+. In season three, Carmi and his crew are aiming for the ultimate restaurant accolade, a Michelin star. With Golden Globe and Emmy wins, the show starring Jeremy Allen White, Io Debrey, and Maddie Matheson is ready to heat up screens once again. All new episodes of FX's The Bear are streaming June 27, only on Disney+. Navigating adulting isn't always easy.

You're not just working, you're working late. And dinner dates are all, what's your five-year plan? And you're thinking, paying off the bill for this fancy pants meal, probably. So when you need to break free from responsibility and experience something that feels more you, reach for Kraft Dinner. Because when you're starved for moments

that bring you back to who you really are and what you really love, that's when it's gotta be KD. When you gotta do you, it's gotta be KD. Shop now. This is Clear and Vivid, and now back to the MASH gang. This was a questionable moment in terms of discipline.

We used to play tricks on each other during the operations. Remember that? Yeah. We'd be operating on somebody trying to save their life, and the other cast members would be attaching surgical implements to our gowns. Clamps, yeah. Clamps. And the trick was, how many clamps could you get on there before you make the person break

up? What about at Thanksgiving, Mike? Remember when we played that trick on Stiers, and we had his dressing room painted purple and orange? And we went on that two-day vacation and came back. And we couldn't wait to see what he was going to say. He didn't say anything. He didn't say a word.

And a couple weeks passed, and he finally said, Mike, Jamie, did anyone paint your dressing rooms while we were gone? And we said, no. He says, well, someone came in and painted mine salmon and mauve. He didn't say purple and orange, but salmon and mauve. Yes. And it's a wonderful combination. It was so Winchester.

One time, Wayne was doing a scene, and he said, and he was supposed to be drinking a little glass of cognac. And he said to the prop guy, give me some real cognac so I can feel it. Oh, dear. What he didn't realize is we did 20 takes. By the end of the shoot, we couldn't get him up off the chair. I always loved, we were talking before about the people we've lost, Thad Mumford being one. Yeah, yes.

Thad and Dan were such wonderful writers, and they did two lines, and I was asking Dan who did which, because they were both so great, and they were so demonstrative of the characters. both so great and they were so demonstrative with the characters. One was Dan said that had written it. One was Bill when somebody actually David Ogden Stiers said to Bill in the scene

my you're vague today father even for you. And the other was Dan, after he was slightly snockered, Major Winchester came out of the mess tent, and we were all supposed to be keeping a secret. And he said, my lips are seals. My lips are seals. Bill, Bill, he was so funny. Fortunately, I brought something to read.

Remember, he was at the bottom of a Jeep. He was in the bottom of a Jeep with about 20 nurses on top of him. And he had to be there for two or three hours while we shot the scene. And we said, Bill, were you all right under all those nurses? He says, yes, fortunately, I brought something to read. I sent him a Bible at one point that was in ancient Greek, the original ancient Greek. Really? Where did you find such a thing?

He thanked me profusely for it. He was an amazing guy, Billy. Oh, yeah. Yeah, very smart and wonderfully funny. So perfect for that role. I mean, there's no more perfect priest than Bill was. A unique sense of humor. Yes.

I miss him terribly. Yes. Remember, we all would imitate his voice. Everybody did contests. Men, women, children. Jocularity, jocularity. There's somebody on Twitter with the handle, jocularity, jocularity. There's somebody on Twitter with the handle, jocularity, jocularity. Well, that was Harry, wasn't it?

No, no, that was Bill, I think. Yeah, but then we all— I don't know. It was so long ago. What show are we talking about? People tell me, as a matter of fact, people say to me, I've seen the show so many times. I've watched every episode many times. I know all your lines by heart.

And I said, well, that's better than I did at the time. I can remember you putting your lines in the wounds of the patient. Yeah, they really fit nicely, too. Actually, we didn't operate on patients. We operated on pieces of foam rubber so you could look like you were sewing something. But I would, because it was a lot of complicated doctor talk that included words I had never seen before. I would put the script on the piece of foam so that I had to be looking down anyway for the operation. So it wasn't much of a cheat. If I may, it was brilliant. You raised it to an art form. I've never seen anything done so well. I wasn't so bad as some actors I've heard of who actually, this is hard to believe,

in a close-up or an over-the-shoulder where the camera's behind the other actor and it's on your face. I've heard of actors who would ask the actor whose face wasn't being seen by the camera to wear a post-it on his forehead with the lines on it. the lines are. Alan, I'd like to say something really nice about you. Oh, thank you. If that's possible. But you're not going to. But you're not able to. You talk about the discipline, the discipline that you had when you would shoot five days a week on MASH and then go home on the weekends to New Jersey to your family. I thought that was absolutely fantastic. I get a little more credit than I deserve because I only did that for four months out of the year. The rest of the time we were together and I didn't have to fly back.

And then when the kids went to college, I didn't have to do it anymore because Arlene and I were together. But there wasn't one of us who wasn't totally committed to it. And we gave each other strength by that. We gave each other. Without thinking, it's in retrospect, we look at that now and realize how incredible that was. Although, I will say, we were shooting, and Alan and I were in helmets. We were waiting either for the sun or something to happen. And we looked at each other and you said, isn't this wonderful?

I mean, aren't we lucky to be us? And you wrote it again in a book that you gave me. And I thought how wonderful that we were able to, while it was happening, appreciate how special and wonderful it all was, this happening, this mash happening that we were all a part of. But it didn't just, pardon me, it didn't just happen out of the blue. Do you all remember, Mike, you wouldn't remember this because you came in a couple of years later. When I was still missing you. I was missing you, Mike. And we would, Friday night, we'd have pizza and some beer. And we'd sit in chairs, in a circle of chairs.

And this time, it wasn't to make each other laugh. It was to complain to each other about things. What went wrong? It was like group therapy. It was really painful sometimes. But we did that. And the pizza wasn't that good either. But we did that for weeks.

I thought it would never end. But it was really valuable because we understood better from that who we were, who the other people were. It wasn't just our version of them. We understood how they saw life from their point of view. And we could work around one another's idiosyncrasies. And I think we all had idiosyncrasies. So listen, I'm getting waves from the control room that we have to wrap it up. That we have no discipline.

No, that's the other complaint. But I hope you'll all join me in this. We do, at the end of one of these shows, we do seven quick questions, hopefully getting seven quick answers. And they're all sort of generally in some vague way related to communicating and relating. So are you all game to give me some quick answers? Sure. Yeah? Yeah, I'm game.

Okay, so we'll just go around and around. We'll do Loretta, Mike, Gary, Jamie. How's that? Okay, number one. What do you wish you really understood? Period? A question mark? That was it?

That was the question? What do I wish that I really understood? Yeah, this is taking a long time. Myself? You wish you understood yourself. Great. Mike? God.

Ah. Gary? How people can be saying the same thing and think that they're saying the opposite. I think I'm experiencing that right now. Jamie. People. People. We wish understood people.

Okay, number two, what do you wish other people understood about you, Loretta? Oh, that I try hard and mean well. Mike? That I try hard and mean well. Was that an echo? And that you were a thief. Would you repeat the question, please? The question is, what do you wish other people understood about you?

I don't know. There's something nice in that. Jamie? Not complicated. Not complicated. Okay, number three. Loretta, what's the strangest question anyone has ever asked you? You just did. Okay, Mike? Is Alan Alda really as nice as he seems? And this strikes you as strange?

It strikes me as redundant. Gary? Do you really sleep with a teddy bear? They really say that? Oh, my God. They say it all the time, and I think it's the strangest thing I ever heard. I mean, it completely defies the reality of I was playing a character once. I know. Jamie? Are you still alive?

Hey, Alan, can I back up and take another shot at that one? Yeah, sure. Because it wasn't such a strange question. What I find strange, because we're such a close-knit family, people will say, do you keep in touch with any of those people? Yeah, it seems strange to us. I know. In fact, we all know that most theatrical companies, when they Yeah, it seems strange to us. I know. In fact, we all know that most theatrical companies, when they dissolve, that's the last time you see the other person. Even if you've been very close.

Worse yet, they were not very close to begin with. Right. Okay, so Loretta, now here's the next question. How do you stop a compulsive talker? Oh, my. I don't know that I even try compulsive. Just let them go on and on and on. Okay. I don't know.

That's one way. I don't know. Mike, how do you stop a compulsive talker? My wife has a little business card-looking thing that you hold up, and it says, stop talking. Is that true? Really? That's a good idea. Yeah.

Gary, would you have a technique? Not really. I find myself backing away eventually. Far enough, and they're yelling. Jamie, how about you? How do you stop a compulsive talker? Looks like I'm listening, but I'm not really hearing. Yeah, and they eventually stop?

Yes. I'm afraid that I'm a compulsive talker, which is why I don't have an answer to that. Well, the thing is, your trick is you don't have to stop a compulsive talker. Because I'm still talking. Yes. They don't get in on it. Loretta, is there anyone for whom you just can't feel empathy? Yeah.

He's going to go unnamed. Well, you know, yes, yeah, probably the government right now, the president. I'm having a lot of difficulty. Oh, so Mike, do you have anyone you can't feel empathy for? So far, I haven't been able to work up any for Senator Mitch McConnell. Okay. All right. This is all getting political. But, Gary, how about you?

I feel that we owe everybody empathy. And I try my best with all people. Okay. Jamie, how about you? People who don't see the glass half full. All right. I think people without empathy should be hung, don't you? That's a little harsh, Alan.

Okay, right. So, Loretta, how do you like to deliver bad news, in person, on the phone, or by carrier pigeon? Definitely in person. In person phone, or by carrier pigeon? Definitely in person. In person. You like it, huh? I don't like it, no. But do you prefer it? I turn it around to me.

How would I want to hear something? And I would want somebody to be there with me. Mike? I think it would be unfair to do it anything other than personally. And Gary? In person. And Jamie? Drums. Tom-toms. No, in person. Yes, in person. Oh, that's good. That's really good. Okay, last question. What, if anything, would make you end a friendship? It would have to be something terribly serious, you know, like, I don't know, murder or I don't know. Yeah.

To end. Okay, well, let's all keep that in mind. So, Mike, what about you? Treachery. Treachery. Gary? If signing my name

to the bill and the commissary didn't do it. That's good. I think lying, you know, lying to me more than once might do it. Jamie, how about you? Betrayal.

Betrayal. But those are the serious things that I'm not giving a name to. I mean, it would have to be something deadly serious like disloyalty or, you know. to be something deadly serious like disloyalty or, you know. Well, this is a good question to end our conversation on because I don't see any of us ever not valuing our friendship the way we do now. Ditto. It's been so, so good to talk.

I love you all, and I'm so glad that you joined us. Ditto. Same to you, Alan. Same to you, Alan. And to Loretta, to Gary, and to Mike. Yeah, you guys are like a little miracle in my life. I quite agree with all of that. I can't tell you how grateful I am for having had this experience in my life and continuing to have these relationships. I think how we all feel about one another.

For me, it was saying goodbye to Harry in Goodbye, Farewell. I had to look at that face into those eyes and say, You dear sweet man, I'll never forget you. I can't do it today without choking up because the truth of the matter is we never will forget that dear sweet man. So thanks, Loretta. We're going out on a laugh. Now that's clear and vivid. Thank you so much, guys.

That was so much fun. Love to you all. Thanks so much. Love to you, Alan. Love to you and your family, Alan, and everybody's family. Thank you. You too. Yours too. God bless. Talk to you soon, as you know. Bye-bye.

Bye, Dears. This has been clear and vivid. At least I hope so. I want to thank Loretta, Mike, Jamie, and Gary for making this experience possible. We do try to get together every once in a while for dinner, but this has been a very special conversation. My pals have been doing lots of interesting things. Gary has

set up a GoFundMe campaign to help people affected by the California wildfires. You can contribute by going to GoFundMe.com. And Gary's book called To Mash and Back is available online. Jamie is currently in a recurring role as Dudley on the new Fox Network TV series The Cool Kids. It airs Friday nights at 8.30 p.m. Eastern Standard Time, immediately after Last Man Standing. Mike has a one-man show he performs around the United States called Dr. Keeling's Curve. It's about global warming. He plays Dr. Charles David Keeling, who pioneered our understanding of rising CO2 levels and the impact that that has on our planet. Ever since I met Mike,

I've known him to be dedicated to social justice. He's been president of Death Penalty Focus for 25 years. You can find out more about his work at deathpenalty.org. Loretta has recently created a book called Swithart, The Watercolor Artistry and Animal Activism of Loretta Swith. You can find her book online, and she'll personalize it as well. Go to swithart.org. And Loretta is really into social media. You can find her on Instagram at Loretta

Swit, Twitter at Loretta underscore Swit and Facebook at Real Loretta Swit. This episode was produced by Graham Chedd with help from our associate producer Sarah Chase. Our sound engineer is Dan D'Azula.

Our tech guru is Allison Koston. And our publicist is Sarah Hill. And I'd also like to acknowledge all of the engineers at Stitcher and Earwolf who managed the great feat of getting us all online at the same time. Our deep thanks to John DeLore, Casey Holford, Brendan Burns, and Sam Kiefer. And my heartfelt thanks to my executive assistant, Jean Chimay. Absolutely none of this would have happened without you. You were, as always, amazing. Thanks, Jean. You can subscribe to our podcast for free at Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or wherever you like to listen. For more details about Clear and Vivid and to sign up for my newsletter, please visit alanalda.com.

You can also find us on Facebook and Instagram at Clear and Vivid, and I'm on Twitter at Alan Alda. Thanks for listening. Bye-bye. Season 3 of Clear and Vivid kicks off with a Valentine's Day special. My visit with Dr. Ruth in her Manhattan apartment. You and I sitting here, your smile, your attention to what I'm saying, that's enough. Tell your wife not to worry. But that's enough for building a good relationship.

Because what you are doing right now, you are giving me your entire attention. And you are asking me questions that I'm interested in. You're not asking me about golf. No, I didn't ask Dr. Ruth about golf. But in a freewheeling conversation that, of course, involved some frank talk about sex, Dr. Ruth Westheimer spoke as much about how to have a meaningful relationship as well as her experience in the military as a sniper, and how she slips away from charity events with the flowers from her table, and why Valentine's Day, despite its commercialism, should be properly celebrated.

Dr. Ruth, next time on Clear and Vivid. To listen to these podcasts, you can subscribe for free at Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or wherever you listen.