Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - Mini-Ep #75: Remembering Marvin Kaplan and Gene Wilder

Episode Date: September 1, 2016

Each week, comedian Gilbert Gottfried and comedy writer Frank Santopadre share their appreciation of lesser-known films, underrated TV shows and hopelessly obscure character actors -- discussing, dissecting and (occasionally) defending their handpicked guilty pleasures and buried treasures. This week: Farewell, Choo Choo! "Quackser Fortune Has a Cousin in the Bronx"! Gilbert hangs with Richard Pryor! And Sammy Davis bests Anthony Newley! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Baseball is finally back. Get in on Major League action and swing for the fences with BetMGM, the king of sportsbooks. Log in or sign up to play along as BetMGM brings the real-time action. Embrace a season's worth of swings with BetMGM, your one-stop shop for all things baseball. BetMGM.com for Ts and Cs. 19 plus to wager.

Ontario only. Gambling problem? Call Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. What's 2FA security on Kraken? Let's say I'm captaining

my soccer team and we're up by a goal against, I don't know, the Burlington Bulldogs. Do we relax? No way. Time to create an extra line of defense

and protect that lead. That's like 2FA on Kraken. A surefire way to keep what you already have safe and sound. Go to Kraken.com and see what crypto can be. Not investment advice. Crypto trading involves risk of loss. See Kraken.com slash legal slash CA dash PRU dash disclaimer for info on Kraken's undertaking to register in Canada. Be sure to follow us on Facebook and Twitter and subscribe on iTunes so you don't miss a single episode.

And if you like the show and think we deserve a five-star rating, and obviously we do, rate us and post a review. Also, although our main purpose in life is to entertain you, producing this show costs actual money. So please help out by going to patreon.com slash Gilbert Gottfried and pledging your support to receive old sorts of goodies, sorts of goodies, merchandise, personalized roast, and shout-outs, advanced access to episodes, or personal messages from me, Gilbert Gottfried. And if we raise enough, maybe I can finally get a new co-host. I'm thinking of the Scarlett Johansson robot. Top Cat! The most effectual Top Cat! Whose intellectual close friends get to call him TC.

Providing it's with dignity. Top Cat! The indisputable leader of the gang. He's the boss, he's the biff, he's the champion. That was Top Cat, if we all remember that cartoon. This is Gilbert and Frank's Amazing Colossal Obsessions. I'm Gilbert Gottfried. I'm here with my co-host, Frank Santopadre. Now, Top Cat, we're playing because we just recently interviewed Marvin Kaplan. The late, great Marvin.

And was his beanie? He was choo-choo. Choo-choo. Who was beanie? I can Choo Choo. Choo Choo. Who was Beanie? I can't remember who Beanie was. I remember, well, of course, Alan Jenkins, I think, was the voice of the cop. Oh, yes. Yeah.

And was it Maurice Gosfield? Oh, my God. Yeah, the fat one. Yeah. And, of course, Arnold Stang was Top Cat. Because this, in the same way. Maurice might have been Benny the Ball. Oh, that might have been it.

In the same way that the Flintstones were a blatant ripoff of the Honeymooners, Top Cat was a blatant ripoff of Sergeant Belko. Sure was. With Arnold Stang doing his Phil Silvers imitation. And just Marvin Kaplan there. Our second guest, actually, that has passed in the course of this show since we've started doing this. Not bad for, what, 115, 120 episodes? Usually they die right about a day after or when we when we first

called yeah we've only lost joe franklin and marvin and i consider that a success like jack carter agreed to do this show yeah and then when it came time for him to do it the his manager goes oh he had to go in the hospital and that that was okay. Right. And ever since then, whenever we start to talk or discuss. We say, get him now. You say. Yeah. I always say, get him right now. What's the wait?

What's the hurry? What? He's only 97. For God's sake. You know how many guests we've had on this show in their 90s? Marvin didn't make it. He was 89. Yeah.

But Al Jaffe's 95. Wow. Sonny Fox is 90 or 91. Dick Van Dyke, of course. Oh, yes. I think Charlotte Ray. We haven't posted that one yet, but Charlotte Ray's coming up. Yeah. On it. Larry Storch. How old is Hank? Hank's 84. Oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah, Hank's sharp. And Marvin was incredibly sharp. Marvin was... First of all, I remember talking to him on the phone first. When we booked him, he started calling. Yeah.

And he sounds exactly like he did in the movies. He's like, Hi, it's Marvin. And he was like... I think he said do I have to dress up for this and I said no it's a podcast we just hear your voice yeah I love explaining to octogenarians what a podcast is and I barely and understand. And you barely know. Now, and what was great about him, he was discovered by Katharine Hepburn. Yeah, he worked with everybody. And, yeah, worked with Hepburn and Tracy.

Yes. And Paul Newman. Oh, my God, yes. And everybody. And everybody. And he ran the gamut from Charlie Chaplin to David Lynch. Yes. I mean, it was a long career.

And, of course, I guess maybe the only surviving member of Mad Men World. Is there anyone else? Well, there's Carl Reiner, who was in a small part. Oh, okay. And Barry Chase. Oh, and Jerry Lewis. Right. But he doesn't really have any dialogue except for that sound.

He goes, huh? Yeah. That's it. He goes, who? Yeah. That's it. He rolls over Spencer Tracy's hat in his car. That's it. I'm not sure Barry Chase talks. She's Dick Shawn's dancing girlfriend. I'm not sure she has.

Oh, my God. There's the pouty one. Yeah. I'm not sure she has any actual dialogue. Like a robot kind of dance. She's around. We want to track down Barry Chase, and we're still chasing Mr. Reiner, and we're not going to give that one up.

But Marvin remembered dates. He was telling us about auditioning for George Cukor, and he remembered the bus he got on, and the audition was at 2 o'clock. It was on the Paramount lot. Actually, 2.15. Just incredible. Such a sweet guy. Oh, yeah.

So genuine. Immediately likable. Yeah. I'm kicking myself because I didn't send him to social media, which I do a lot of times with the guests. I did it with Peter Marshall. Yeah. Because there was such an outpouring on Twitter and Facebook. You know, this guy's great.

He's sharper than me, and I'm 40. And I sent it to Peter and to his wife and they really appreciated it. So from that point on, I just shared. I didn't tell you. I just sent all the good stuff that people wrote about Stuart Margolin. Oh, yes. All the flattering things people wrote, I sent to Stuart because he was curious about it. And now I've gotten into the habit of doing that with guests.

And Orson Bean called us. That's right. And he said that's the most attention he's gotten in his career. The most feedback he's gotten in a long time about something was the pod. So I've been sharing stuff with Orson and just kicking myself for not doing it with Marvin. I just didn't get to it, you know. I didn't. I mean, at 89, I suppose you never know.

I didn't think he was in bad health. Yeah. He had trouble with his eyes, but he was pretty damn sharp. Totally. So I'm sorry we didn't reach out after we did the show and sent him. In fact, it surprised me when I heard he died because he had such energy on the show and remembered everything. And such range. Every every actor every director funny stories and and blake edwards to you know putting his life at risk in the great race oh yes but as

um uh mark evanier posted on on on his site news for me which is worth reading and i posted it i reposted it on facebook he was a serious guy Marvin he was a very serious actor oh yeah and he was a director and he and he did Ibsen or or or I'm trying to remember what it was was it it was Chekhov or something like that I mean he did he did very serious work and he had a theater company and he was working right up until the end oh yeah and it's so funny to imagine that he was able to do drama because there was something so inherently funny. Yes. His voice was funny. He looked funny. He was like a living cartoon character.

Yeah. We loved him. And when we started the podcast, he was a name that came to us early. I remember having run into him at the Friars Club about 10 years ago and we didn't get to talk, but I was, you know, the people I get starstruck about. Oh, yes.

I wouldn't be starstruck if I ran into George Clooney, but Marvin Kaplan. And we put him on the list and it was just, it was wonderful that we got to him. Yeah.

And so many people wrote thanks, you know, thanks, as Gil's cell phone goes off. Yes. It's Marvin from the beyond. Yes. Here, let me just. But the fact that we were able to get to him and so many people wrote thanks for letting him tell his story. And I'm sure it's the last interview he gave. I think so. And I was I remember I had mixed feelings. One said he went, but then two, I thought, oh, thank God we got him.

Yeah. And like I said, not to be self-aggrandizing about this stuff, but that's, you know, we don't want to lose Marvin. But the fact that we got it, the fact that we were able to get the stories and introduce other generations to him and to his work makes this – it's one of the reasons we're doing it. Yeah. And it's like whenever I get these tweets of like, you know, people in their 20s will go, oh, I really like Marvin Kaplan. I love it. Yeah. It's amazing.

Yeah. Somebody – a manager friend of mine in L.A. wrote to me and said, that's my favorite episode, Marvin Kaplan. Yeah. So go figure. Yeah. L.A. wrote to me and said, that's my favorite episode, Marvin Kaplan. Yeah. So go figure.

Yeah. So we have to talk, as long as we're doing a little bit of, we're doing memories here and a little bit of an in memoriam, we should talk about the late, great Jerry Silberman, who we just lost, born in Milwaukee, a Jewish fellow. By the name, you wouldn't have known. No. Yeah. By the name, you wouldn't have known. No. Gene Wilder, who passed on last week.

And you worked with him. Briefly. Yes. There's a picture on Facebook. I see it of you and Mr. Wilder and Mr. Pryor. Yes. I just recently, well, I put that photo up the day Gene Wilder died. And it was – I worked for two weeks on the last of the Wilder-Richard Pryor films called Another You.

Right. We spoke about with Peter Bogdanovich. With the fired director, Peter Bogdanovich. Fired Peter Bogdanovich. Right. And then I remember my agent saying, well, he's been fired, but you'll start work again. I'll give you the date. And then they wound up firing more people, of which I was one of them.

And they scrapped old previously shot footage. Yeah. And came out with a bomb. It would have been a bomb no matter what. It was horrible. But it's so funny. I put up this picture of me with my arms around Gene Wilder and Richard Pryor. And I put it on my website.

And, I mean, it blew up. Yeah, I'll bet. I mean, the amount of retweets and likes. I mean, it blew up. Yeah, I'll bet. I mean, the amount of retweets and likes. And the funny thing is now I look at that photo and I go, oh, my God, I've got my arms around these two. And back then it was, you know, two guys I was working with. Did you spend quality time with him?

Did you talk to him? I think I spent more time with Briar. I think Wilder was kind. He was more quiet and reserved. Another serious guy. Yeah. Another serious comedian. Yeah, yeah.

I mean, thought of himself as an actor, not a comedian. He didn't strike me as a guy joking around on the set. Right. Jerry Silberman from Milwaukee, our friend Gino's hometown, took his name from Thornton Wilder, one of his favorite writers. And apparently, if this is to be believed, a character, Gene, from the Thomas Wolfe story, Look Homeward, Angel. So that's how Gene Wilder came to be. Another thing that pops into my head. I didn't identify him as very Jewish, by the way.

He said he felt like a Jew when he was around Mel Brooks and Zero Mostel. Pretty impossible not to. Yeah, but he followed the golden rule. I saw an interview with him. But I remember three stories. Mm-hmm. remember three stories um i heard that jackie gleason uh jan murray and gene wilder all their their mothers died at a pretty young age yeah his mother had a bad ticker yeah she had a bad heart and i heard like jackie gleason his father would take him to vaudeville shows and then he would go back and make his mother laugh.

I heard the same with Jan Murray. Interesting. He'd go to a vaudeville show or a movie and act it out for his mother. And I heard Gene Wilder, the same thing. Yeah. He'd see a movie and then immediately go home and entertain his mother. Yeah, with Danny Kaye and Sid Caesar impressions. Oh, yeah.

To try to make his mother laugh. Yeah. I mean, what do you say about this guy? The range. I mean, the kinds of things that he did. You know, we've talked on this show about young Frankenstein and, you know, we're Frankenstein obsessed. Oh, yes. You know, we've talked about Blazing Saddles. I'm going to see Bla we're Frankenstein obsessed. Oh, yes. You know, we've talked about Blazing Saddles.

I'm going to see Blazing Saddles tomorrow night. Oh, wow. We're recording this on Wednesday, the 31st of August, and tomorrow night Mel Brooks is introducing Blazing Saddles at Radio City. A bittersweet time. Oh, yeah. And of course the producers. It gets funnier each time you see it.

And the producers, which he got because Anne Bancroft, he was appearing in Mother Courage, the Bertolt Brecht play with Anne Bancroft. And her boyfriend would come to pick her up. Yeah. Melvin Kaminsky, Mel Brooks. Oh, wow. Her boyfriend would come to pick her up. And they became friendly. He gave Wilder acting advice.

Oh, wow. Can you believe that? And then he said, I have this project for you. It's called Springtime for Hitler, and when I get the money, we're going to do it. And apparently Wilder thought, oh, yes, sure. Yeah. Someday a musical about it.

Right. A musical about, sure, someday it will happen. But it did three years later. There's a really sweet moment in the producers, which is unlike any other part of the movie, where he starts saying, you know, what bad thing did this man do? He called me Leo. Right.

Everyone else called me Bloom. Right. This man called me Leo. Who did he hurt? And it's a really sweet moment. Yeah. And I heard that was Gene Wilder's suggestion. Really? Really? Interesting. Yeah. To make him more human. We had the other Leo Bloom in here. We had Matthew Broderick. Oh my God. Yes. We didn't get to Gene Wilder, and we knew, actually, when we started the podcast, I think we had heard through certain circles that he was not well. Yeah.

And was a shy person, and we didn't pursue it. But, boy, you talk about it. I think I mentioned him as a dream guest on a previous episode. He had been sick for a while. Yeah. By the way, this I found interesting. He was doing Cuckoo's Nest, the play with a while. Yeah. But I mean, and he was, by the way, this I found interesting. He was doing Cuckoo's Nest, the play with Kirk Douglas. Yes.

When the producers came along, he was playing Billy Bibbit. Yes. The part Brad Dourif played in the film. And that was the movie that Kirk Douglas was fighting for years. Correct. He wanted to make it. And his son wound up producing it. Yes.

Michael Douglas. And getting Jack Nichols. Right. Yeah. Right. But what range? I mean, Bonnie and Clyde, he has that small part. Oh, yes.

I've never seen Quacks or Fortune, has a cousin in the Bronx. Oh, I've seen that. You have? With Margot Kidder? Yeah. It looks interesting. He does an Irish brogue. Yeah.

It takes place in Ireland. A manure collector who falls for an American exchange student. I'd like to see that. I did see that. That's one of those nice little films. Okay, I will definitely take a look at that. There's another one. Is it called The Frisco Kid?

Yeah, sure. He's the rabbi. Yeah, with Harrison Ford. Yeah, John Wayne was supposed to play the cowboy. Wow. But they were chintzing him on the money. But I do like that one. I like Start the Revolution Without Me.

Oh, yeah. With Donald Sutherland. And he has a lot of range in that one. Victor Spinetti shows up in that one, too, from A Hard Day's Night. Oh, yes. And Orson Welles. That's a funny little film that's overlooked. Baseball is finally back.

Get in on Major League action and swing for the fences with BetMGM, the king of sportsbooks. Log in or sign up to play along as BetMGM brings the real-time action. Embrace a season's worth of swings with BetMGM, your one-stop shop for all things baseball. BetMGM.com for T's and C's. 19 plus to wager.

Ontario only. Gambling problem? Call Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. A fresh voice can speak to you and open your ears and your mind to new views and new perspectives. The call of the wild, a crescendo of culture. The call of the wild, a crescendo of culture. Listen as a chorus of fresh voices moves you, taking you to greater heights. Add your voice to the mix and let fresh answer back with perfect harmony in pure Michigan. Keep it fresh at Michigan.org.

The White Chocolate Macadamia Cream Cold brew is back for the summer at Starbucks. So bold and so dreamy. It's the coolest co-pilot for wherever the sunshine takes you. Embrace the chill, the silky cold foam of that anticipated first sip, and join us on Summertime, only at Starbucks. Donald Sutherland, boy, there's a guy we should get on this show. Oh, yeah. Who's done a lot of films.

There's a guy that's worked constantly. Frisco Kid, Robert Aldrich. I was just mentioning John Wayne. The world's greatest lover. Oh, yeah. And Sherlock Holmes, The Adventure of Sherlock Holmes' Smarter Brother, which has Mr. Feldman and Madeline Kahn in it. And I was thinking we should get Carol Kane to come on the show. She's in The World's Greatest Lover to talk about Gene Wilder. I remember once being booked and I did a cartoon episode with Carol Kane.

Was she nice? Yeah. I remember we both started laughing about something we should call her up and then they had to separate has she been here she's been here to record cartoons oh we should call her for sure she's had a very interesting career and she worked with wilder and um in the world's greatest lover we have to mention willie wonka oh my god yes willie wonka i think is one of those films that when it came out, it wasn't a big hit, I don't think, but became. I think that's true.

Yeah. I think that's true. I was reading interesting trivia about Willy Wonka. First of all, Martin Borman, one of Hitler's henchmen, shows up in Willy Wonka. Did you know that? No. There's a picture of Martin Borman on a newspaper. It's a trivia I found, and I don't know much about that or why that is,

but if any of our listeners can shed some light on that. Because Hitler asked for too much money. Yeah, right. Couldn't get Mengele. We're all ears on that. And supposedly, and you don't know if what you read about on these websites or IMDB is factual or not, but supposedly Sammy Davis was interesting. Of course,

he recorded the Candyman, but was interested in playing the candy store, the candy shop owner. Now, that would have been better because Sammy Davis's version of the Candyman is much better. Than Anthony Newley's? Yeah. Yeah. Well, that was the one that was a hit. And we just have to talk, running out of time here, but we have to talk about a little bit about Blazing Saddles and Young Frank. Oh, Anthony Nulli was a Jew. Was he? Yes. I didn't know that.

Yeah, yeah. But who was the guy who sung it in the movie? What was that guy's name? I'm trying to remember now. Whatever. Yeah, well, Sammy had the hit. Yeah, because his was more fun. Absolutely. Well, Sammy had the hit. Yeah. Because his was more fun. Absolutely.

Yeah. Well, he performed it for years in his act afterward. And then he did the remake of Mr. Bojangles. That's right. Yeah. That's right. Let's talk a little bit about Blazing Saddles because we have talked on this show. Also, David Huddleston passed.

Oh, my God, yes. From Blazing Saddles. Yes. Since the big, heavy set actor. And they also used him in the Matthew Broderick version of the producers. He was the judge.

Correct, correct. Because there's one part where they find out he's married to Uma Thurman. Mm-hmm. And she goes, you two are married. And she goes, you two are married? And she goes, he wouldn't have sex with me unless we were married.

And Huddleston goes, what a schmuck. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. David Huddleston was one of the townsfolk, along with the great John Hillerman. Oh, my God, yes. Who is still with us. Oh, we've got to get him. Yeah, and some other great people. And he was on The Big Lebowski, of course.

Oh, yeah. But he passed since the last time we recorded, speaking of Blazing Saddles. And we had talked on this show about how Gig Young was cast as the Waco Kid. Yes. But had a drinking problem. But Dan Daly was cast first. Oh, wow. Which I found out in my research, the old hoofer.

And Gene Wilder, this was supposed to have been the first Gene Wilder-Richard Pryor teaming. But the studio was scared of hiring Pryor. Yeah, I think they wouldn't insure him because of the drug problem. But he wrote this. Oh, yeah. Brooks put him in the writer's room with Andrew Bergman and Norman Steinberg. Oh, yes. Norman Steinberg, future podcast guest.

He has a bone to pick with you, by the way. Who does? I ran into Norman. A great, great comedy writer, and we'll have him on the show. But what a happy accident, because I'm thinking, I'm picturing Dan Daly, who was a good actor, a song and dance man, and I'm thinking, okay, because Brooks was trying to cast, you know, actors in those parts. Somebody that you would buy as an old gunslinger. It was basically the idea of casting actors is kind of like what the producers of Airplane and Naked Gun realized.

Right, right, right. Get real actors. Right, a guy that you would believe as an old gun, as a retired, as a washed-up gunslinger. Oh, yeah. And then he went to Gig Young, and Dan Daly walked out or had to do something else, and Gig Young had the DTs

or was supposedly foaming at the mouth. Yeah, they said Gig Young, I think, went as far as doing the thing where he's hanging upside down. Right. And then he did start foaming at the mouth and shaking. And Mel Brooks, of course, thought, oh, this guy's great. He's doing

an alcoholic. He's terrific. And then they had to rush him to the hospital. Yep. And he got on the phone with Wilder and he said the next day I was hanging, I got on he said, the next day I was hanging, I got on a plane and the next day I was hanging upside down

in the jail cell. And now when you watch it, I'm going to see it tomorrow night, you can't think of anybody else. I know. They're wonderful together. And he's so,

it's funny because he's so different than he was in the producers. Yes. Yes. And the timing, I i mean the comic timing oh my god and the the the just watch the watch the the the chemistry that the two of them have and i'm sure it would have been a very different film with richard pryor but cleavon little's pretty

perfect pretty damn good he really is in that part and let's talk a little bit about young frankenstein which originated with Wilder. And this is interesting because it's a Mel Brooks film that didn't start, that didn't spring from the imagination of Mel Brooks. It was a Gene Wilder original screenplay. Yes. Yeah. And his agent, Mike Medavoy, at the time, pitched it to Brooks. And Wilder, I've seen numerous interviews with him where Brooks' reaction to it was,

it's cute. It's cute. It's interesting. But he was lukewarm to it. And then Medavoy kept insisting, well, what about Mel Brooks? And Wilder apparently said, well, he's not going to do something that he didn't conceive. It's a long shot. But they convinced him to do it. And Marty Feldman and Peter Boyle were both repped by Wilder's agent. Oh, wow. By Mike Medavoy. So it's another thing where everything just sort of fell into place. And I think, and I don't know if this is factual as well,

I think Brooks had his eye on the hunchback part. Oh. But Wilder insisted that he stay behind the scenes, that he not, because that's the one kind of Mel Brooks, the one Mel Brooks movie where there's no Mel Brooks. Oh, yeah. He's completely behind the scenes. And I'm trying to think of what would it have been like with him as the hunchback and not Marty Feldman. And I don't think it would have been as good. Yeah.

But I was always glad when Mel Brooks popped up. Oh, yeah. But it pops up as Governor LePetimane in Blazing Saddles. He's hilarious. Oh, yeah. And the Indian chief. The warrior that speaks Yiddish. But I have the original Wilder screenplay, and it's fascinating.

Because most of what's in there is in the movie. And they famously bickered they famously fought over the putting on the Ritz scene. And Peter Boyle when you put aside all the comedy actually gave a good performance as the monster. Terrific.

And it's one of those movies we've talked about commitment and we've talked about actors who play comedy as drama. That's a film where everything is played so with such deadly seriousness. And it's why the parody works. Oh, yeah. The same example you just gave about Airplane. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. And as a Frankenstein fan, as a fanatic about the old Universal films, you know the story of how he found the guy, Kenneth Strickfaden? Brooks found the guy, and he still had all the old stuff in his garage. Oh, wow. I remember Strickfaden. Yeah, they used his stuff in all of the original movies. Well, when they were making the film, Brooks found that he was still alive, and they looked him up, and they went went and he had the stuff in his garage. Oh, my God.

And that stuff, the laboratory, the laboratory equipment is authentic. Oh, my God. Maybe not from the first Frankenstein, but certainly from one of them. Yeah. And it may date back to the original. And what I love about, I think Strickfadden was like just he was an artist yeah and that was what he was into making these things that flashed and and then uh someone at universal saw that and said okay this is it's the original stuff and what can you say about that movie

kenneth mars oh my god chloris leach, who we have to try for. Terry Garr. Yeah, it's Madeline Kahn. I mean, even the small roles. Oh, yeah. There's just... Oh, and let's not forget the unbilled appearance from Gene Hackman. And Gene Hackman. As the blind man.

I almost forgot that, yes. Because Gene Hackman was a Mel Brooks fan. Correct. He wanted to do it. Correct. It's just, it's a flawless comedy. That, yes. Because Gene Hackman was a Mel Brooks fan and wanted to do it. Correct. It's a flawless comedy. And we'll mention, too, Silver Streak because it was directed by Arthur Hiller who also passed away since we've last recorded. And I don't think we called him.

We didn't call Arthur Hiller. No, I wanted him. He was on the list. It's amazing. We're not responsible. He was on the list. It's amazing. We're not responsible. He was on the list. So the last thing I want to say, bringing it full circle about Wilder, is you asked Al Jaffe about kind of turning a life of tragedy into being funny. Yes.

And Gene Wilder had some hard knocks. Oh, yeah. You know? I know his mother died at a young age. And wasn't he put in a – put in a school? He was put in a school where he was abused. Yeah, and I heard very like – they hated the Jews. Yeah, there was some anti-Semitism and maybe even some physical abuse or sexual abuse.

They would – yeah, they beat him up. Yeah, and then of course the Gilda tragedy. And then he beat cancer himself later in life. But one of a kind. You know, what can we say that hasn't already been said about him? I read a story that he says when he first met Gilda Radner, there was like a kind of a flirtation going on. She was married to the band leader. G.E. Smith, yeah.

Yes. She was married to the band leader. G. Smith, yeah. Yes. And she said she remembers it because she says that Gene Wilder, you know, walked past her own point and rubbed his balls against her. Purposely? Yeah. And he said, no, no, I never.

That doesn't sound like the kind of guy. Yeah. He said, no, no, I never. That doesn't sound like the kind of guy. Yeah. He said, no, you're nuts. And Gilda said, no, they were your nuts. I hope that story is true because it's wonderful. People should pick up the book, by the way. His memoir, Kiss Me Like a Stranger, which is terrific and sweet and a great read. And also he founded Gilda's Club, which he deserved a ton of credit for. And it's very important to mention, I forget which state,

I think changed the name of it from Gilda's Club to some other title. Yeah. Because it wasn't relevant. Yeah. Yeah. Heartbreaking. See these films. Stir Crazy, written by Drew Friedman's daddy. We should throw in Bruce J. Heartbreaking. See these films. Stir Crazy, written by Drew Friedman's daddy.

We should throw in Bruce J. Friedman. Oh, that's right. That's right. The guy was a genius and touched my childhood. And you could look at the photo of me, Wilder and Pryor, from another. You don't bother seeing it. The film sucked to high heaven. I think it was his last film.

Oh, yes, yes. Yeah. I think he just popped up after that in a, whatchamacallit, that thing with Deborah Messer. That was Will and Grace. Yeah. I don't know what else he did after that. That was about it. I think he won an Emmy

or was nominated for an Emmy. But when he didn't show up for that Mel Brooks AFI tribute last year, when he wasn't even on video, I figured that he had really taken a turn for the worse. No, I remember hearing rumors

years ago. Yeah. And he stopped appearing anywhere. Yeah. We'll just want to. Yeah. And he stopped appearing anywhere. Yeah. We'll just want to end here. And this has been Gilbert and Frank's amazing colossal obsessions. We've been talking about Marvin Kaplan and Gene Wilder and David Huddleston. David Huddleston.

David. Fuck him. He's dead. Some tribute. Thank you, Frankie. We'll see you next time. Hold your breath. Make a wish.

Count to three. Come with me and you'll be In a world of pure imagination. Take a look and you'll see into your imagination. We'll begin with a spin. Traveling in the world of my creation What we'll see will defy explanation If you want to view paradise

Simply look around and view it Anything you want to do it Want to change the world There's nothing to it