Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - Mini-Ep #86: Forgotten Late Night Talk Shows (with Kliph Nesteroff)

Episode Date: November 17, 2016

Each week, comedian Gilbert Gottfried and comedy writer Frank Santopadre share their admiration for lesser-known films, underappreciated TV shows and criminally underrated performers -- discussing, dissecting and (occasionally) defending their handpicked guilty pleasures and buried treasures. This week: "Dr. Black, Mr. Hyde"! "The Les Crane Show"! Danny Kaye upstages Shelley Berman! And Jerry Lewis observes a moment of silence! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Cut, take two. Hi, this is Gilbert Gottfried saying to you, give me money. I want money. Just give me money to make more Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal podcast. It costs money, believe it or not. You're over there saying, but it's so cheap and amateurish. I know that, but it still takes money. So it's patreon.com slash Gilbert Godfrey, patreon.com slash Gilbert Gottfried. And there are rewards in it. I can't even say reward. Rolling.

And there are... Cut. And, you know, like signed posters. And some of you, if it's enough money, I'll roast you. And there's so much, so much, but it's patreon.com slash

Gilbert Gottfried. Give me money! Hi, this is Gilbert Gottfried, and this is Gilbert and Frank's Amazing Colossal Obsessions. And I'm here once again with my co-host, Frank Santopadre. And once again, we're at Nutmeg, and our engineer is Frank Ferdarosa. And before we get to our guest... Yes, sir. I should say that the last time I couldn't think of the title, and a bunch of our listeners. Yes, sir. I should say that last time I couldn't think of the title and a bunch of our listeners tweeted me to say that the black exorcist was Abby. Oh, Abby. Yeah, we did a little thing

about 70s, weird 70s horror films. Yeah. A bunch of people chimed in. Oh, yeah. With stuff. And people actually solved the riddle I had been wondering for years about a movie with a human sacrifice on a beach. Turned out to be a movie from the 80s called Dead and Buried. Wow. But, you know, leave it to our fans. We put it out there. And the reason we bring up Abby is because Cliff Nestorhouse is here. Or Nestoroff.

I love it. Cliff Nestor. Cliff Nestleman. Click. Crick's Nestle Maya. Chrissy Nidle Mike. And is here. And Chrissy

Nestle and you're dangerously near me. And he's wearing an American International t-shirt. Yes! Oh, my God. Bless your heart. Thank you very much. Now, you're, you, oh, his book is Comedians,

and it's now in paperback. Yes, sir. Not comedians. Now, most of this book has to do with William Marshall. Yes, sir. The comedians. Now, most of this book has to do with William Marshall. Yes, yes. The great, great thespian. Blackula.

Blackula. Scream, Blackula, scream. Yeah. Yes. I'm sure you guys talked about Black and Stein. Yes. We did.

It came up. Dr. Black and Mr. Hyde. I think Abby, if I'm not mistaken, is a AIP, American International Pictures film. Sounds right. Most likely, yeah.

Wasn't it out of circulation for years? Didn't the people who made The Exorcist sue to have it pulled from theaters? I think so. But they were both so different. I believe so. Why was it called Abby instead of the Black-sorcist? I don't know. The logical.

The logical. Well, I heard in Blackenstein that he had zebra legs sewn on. That was part of the plot. That was the big twist. Because it was like a whole African made monster. Blackenstein is pretty much unwatchable. But Dr. Black and Mr. Hyde, I'm not lying here. I just watched it in a movie theater a week ago, maybe a week and a half ago for Halloween.

Bernie Casey, Rosalind Cash. Oh, wow. And it's a very enjoyable film. It's actually really good. Yeah. It's got great makeup. It's scary, like when he transforms into Dr. Black. Wow.

It's pretty intense. There's a big climactic scene at the Watts Towers in Los Angeles where he, spoiler alert, pummels to his death from the top of the Watts Towers. Oh, now you killed him. Wow, I'm sorry. Yeah. Well, he doesn't just know comedy. He knows obscure horror films.

Yes. Well, anything AIP. There's a reason I'm wearing American International proudly on my chest. Is that the next book? I don't know that it'll be the next book, but it definitely is always a chronic obsession, you know. That's how I first learned of Don Rickles was Muscle Beach Party.

Oh my, yes, yes. Isn't he in The Man with the X-Ray Eyes? Man with the X-Ray Eyes. Oh, he's like the head of the carnival. That's right. The highest Raymond Burr. Ray Moland was one of the few actors. Ray, Raymond Burr. Ray Moland. I always say that. Ray Moland was one of the few actors. Ray, Raymond Burr. Ray Moland. I always say that.

Ray Moland was one of the few actors under contract to AIP because he made Man with the X-Ray Eyes, The Thing with Two Heads, Frogs, which you can guess the premise of. But all winners. He was their big banner headline star for almost a decade. The biggest star they could get as a leading man, you know. On Halloween night, I actually caught It's Alive, the Larry Cohen movie.

Oh, yes. Which is truly terrible, but fun. There's something wrong with the Davis baby. It's alive. Yeah. Larry Cohen is highly underrated.

You know, we got to get him on here. You got to. He created The Invaders, which I think is the most underrated sort of drama of that era. Don Rickles pops up on an episode of Run For Your Life. Oh, right. I've heard this. I haven't seen it. Yeah. Where he plays a comedian. Right. Who's having a nervous breakdown. I thought that the premise was he plays a comedian who's embroiled in a sexual

harassment trial, a la Bill Cosby. Oh! Because I found the TV guide clipping for it while that Cosby stuff was going down, and I was like, oh, my God, I need to see this. It's the same premise as Cosby's life, and it's played by Don Rickles, but I have not seen that.

That was the Ben Gazzara show, Run For Your Life, right? Oh, yeah. My boy Ben Gazzara. Was it a Quinn Martin production? I'm sure it had to be. A Quinn Martin production. Wasn't the fugitive Quinn Martin? I don't know.

I don't know. All I know is if it says Act II, Crisis and Peril. Oh, yes, yes. I think of those 70s shows like Barnaby Jones and The Streets of San Francisco being Quinn Martin production. The Invaders, created by Larry Cohen, is a Quinn Martin production, which I think is maybe why I never really watched it until recently, and I was like, good Lord, this show is fantastic, at least the first season,

where it's just a man wandering around the desert, paranoid, convinced that everybody's out to get him. It's pretty good. He's had a fascinating career, and speaking of fugitive-type shows, I think he's also, Cliff will correct me, I think he's also the creator of Cornette Blue. Oh, my God!

Was that Frank Converse? At the very least, he's involved in it. I get it confused with the George Kennedy series, The Blue Knight. No,

that was Joseph Wambaugh. That was like, yeah, that was... But Larry Cohen was all over television before he became, before he was making

movies. That was like a spin-off kind of police story or something. Yeah, I mean, they were all kind of knockoffs of each other, spinoffs or not. They all had the same premise, the same general actors. George Kennedy, it would be interesting to count how many times he played a cop in movies and TV. Oh, yes.

It was just frequent. We called George Kennedy when we started this show, and he said, I'm retired. It's the premise of every cop movie he's ever been in. Exactly. Back out of retirement. Yeah, he had a week to go before he was on retirement. He couldn't do the podcast. But Cliff and I spoke, and Cliff's in town, and he was just at Caroline's.

Yes, sir. And what were you doing at Caroline's, kind sir? And thanks for coming to the Whoopi show, by the way, and, yeah. And helping us out with a Mom's Mabley question. Oh, yes. That was so great. That was so great seeing you and Whoopi up there. Glad you dug it. Oh, it was so much fun.

It was great. And I just want to congratulate you guys on all the success you're having. And these incredibly insane fans who know everything that's come out of the woodwork. I am so impressed or scared by art fans. Yeah. Both. Yeah. I'm starting to get packages from people, which is very interesting.

Uh-oh. Old TV guides and weird fanzines and odd books, but I appreciate them. Somebody brought me like a figure, a plastic figure of the Joker. Right. Which I guess you could throw orange witches. And also the great drawings. We have to, you know,

thank everybody who's been doing these great Photoshop's and somebody did a wonderful drawing, an illustration of Gilbert frozen in the ice with Lon Chaney Jr. Oh my God, it was great. Yeah, from House of Frankenstein. That's amazing.

We love getting those, so keep them coming. And there was one guy in the first row of one of my shows. He had on like a black man's wig, very shiny, like from the early 60s or 50s, and a miniature glass coffee table with a Barbie doll on it and the plastic dog shit. This is scary. The work that's been put into this. You'll have to draw the line at Amazing Colossal Podcast fan fiction. Yes. Yeah, I envision a Gallagher-type situation with our fans all showing up with coffee tables instead of mallets and melons.

So Cliff and I got to talking. He was in town. Hey, before we start, Cliff. Yes, sir. Will they ever do a movie about Gallagher? Gallagher and Gallagher 2? Yes. Yeah.

Well, it sounds like it would be a lifetime movie. Yeah, I mean, it could. But like the same guys that made those movies of Three's Company and Charlie's Angels. Yeah, the Gallagher rivalry. Well, the story that I heard was that Gallagher 2, when he started touring with Gallagher's Act, he started making more money than Gallagher. Yes.

And that's the seed of the hostility, the anger. It wasn't that he was doing his brother's act. It was that he was now making more money than his brother was. And he dropped the two from his name. Oh, he did. He was supposed to keep it, Gallagher II. Yes. But he looked enough like him.

He dropped the two. So they figured, oh, we'll just book Gallagher. Wow. And the audience won't know the difference. And he wasn't, there was an agreement that he doesn't do the watermelon. And immediately he started Smashing Watermelon. Right, he started opening with the watermelon. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I did a show with Rip Taylor a couple weeks ago. Oh, tell us. And he referred to Gallagher as that little shit. So that was great. Oh, we got to get Rip Taylor. I believe Darragh reached out to Rip Taylor, and he said he wanted to wait until his book came out. Is he working on a book? A documentary.

Oh, I'm sorry. I misspoke. A documentary. I think maybe it's a documentary. We screened it, and it's actually, as far as those kinds of things go, it's pretty good. It's pretty interesting because nobody really knows the backstory of Rip Taylor. He kind of just emerged like Aphrodite out of nothing with the mustache and confetti, you know? Right.

You guys probably know that he was on Ed Sullivan as the crying comedian. Sure. But the documentary gets into all kinds of weird little things. I've heard gay rumors. That was the one thing that's not in the documentary. You would think he would come out of the closet for that, but he never gets into it. But the one thing that I found especially interesting when they showed the documentary, he posed for Playgirl in 1982. Oh, jeez. Do tell. Rip Taylor in the nude.

You can get it on eBay. You would think it would be the most famous. I know. Why don't we own that, Gil? Yeah. I'm sure our fans will send us a copy in an expensive frame. Did you ever take legal action against Gilbert Gottfried, too? Oh, yes, yes.

My brother. Yeah. Who I said, who the agreement was, he does know Ben Gazzara in the team. So Cliff and I have been talking on Facebook and I said, you know, you're in town, come on,

do a mini-ep with us. What do you want to talk about? Yes. You know, your choice. Yes. And you said, you know, you're in town. Come on. Do a mini-ep with us. What do you want to talk about? Yes. You know, your choice. Yes. And you said? How about forgotten talk shows from the 60s and beyond, like Les Crane. Catnip to us. Joe Pine.

Yeah. The Woody Woodbury Show. Woody Woodbury's around. We've got to reach out to Woody. Woody is in Florida. I think he just braced another hurricane. But he emailed me not that long ago. Very nice man.

Woody Woodbury was in an embarrassingly bad film with Ellen Burstyn. Yeah, for those who think young. Yes. Yes. Yeah. It was like a beach party knockoff movie. And the title, for those who think young, was a Pepsi slogan at the time. And the reason the movie is titled that is because it was produced by Joan Crawford's husband, who was the head of Pepsi-Cola.

Oh, my God. And so when you watch that movie, it's Ellen Burstyn, Woody Woodbury, Bob Denver plays a beatnik on the beach. I think maybe Deanna Martin is in there. And there's Pepsi machines everywhere. Every scene, there's a Pepsi machine. There's a party. Woody Woodbury is doing stand-up at a piano. He's doing his comedy routine.

There's a Pepsi machine. But, yeah, it is a terrible movie. And a band called The Challengers, a surf band, an instrumental surf band from the early 60s, plays a couple songs in that movie. But it's not one of the better beach movies. And they had a song that probably came from his act. Right. It's Woody Wooden Time. It's Woody something time. Yeah, exactly.

Something like that. It was a Howdy Doody knockoff? Yeah, it was pretty horrible. It's Woody Woodbury's one and only credited movie role, and there's a reason. They show his act, and then nobody wanted to use him again. It either doesn't translate or maybe they wrote something

for him to do in the movie that just doesn't work. It's like anything. Whenever they try and have a comedian in a movie doing his act, it's never funny. It never works.

Awful. Now, there was a black talk show host. He was like Jamaican or something. Oh, I don't know this one. I don't know this one. Did you dream this?

No, there actually was. Peter Tosh had a game show? No. Ray something? Was he a WOR guy? Yeah, it was one of the cheaper channels. I think I do have an ad for a black talk show host somewhere, and it's like a WOR or WNEW

but I cannot remember the name. I do know that, I will tell you this much, Nipsey Russell, when Les Crane had... Oh yeah, he was the sidekick. He was Les Crane's sidekick. Yes, indeed. The Les Crane show was ABC's first attempt to compete against Johnny Carson in a premiere

against him in 64. Wait a second. Could someone get Dara to look up black talk show host? Arsenio Hall. Yes. Keenan Ivory Wayans is going to come up. And I think he— Magic Johnson. I think one time as a guest, he had on Otto Preminger.

Wow. You have an era for her? The 60s? I'm going to say the 60s. 60s. Good luck, Dara. Well, one of the only surviving episodes that has not been destroyed of the Les Crane show with Nipsey Russell as the sidekick, the guests are Otto Preminger and the fellow who did

Eve of Destruction. Oh, Barry McGuire. Barry McGuire. And it's an episode about censorship. So they talk to Otto about the moon is blue and how he didn't put the production code on it when they released it and defied the production code. And then they talked to Barry McGuire because at the moment that they booked him, Eve of Destruction was on the charts, but it was being banned by a lot of radio stations for its anti-Vietnam War sentiment. So I don't know if you're –

I remember a talk show host, one of these angry talk show hosts. Joe Pine. No. Well, it was Joe Pine. Yeah. But then there was also, I think, Alan host. Joe Pine. No, well, it was Joe Pine. Yeah. But then there was also, I think, Alan Burke.

Alan Burke. You stumped me again. Yeah. Wow. What channel? What channel? Also one of those like 11 or 9.

These might have been local syndicated shows that Cliff wouldn't have gotten in Canada. Well, I never got any of these shows because I wasn't born. But in Los Angeles, there was people like Paul Coates on KTLA, the Paul Coates Show, C-O-T-E-S.

And it's weird because if they were concentrated in New York or Los Angeles, they were still regional, but they could get big celebrities on them. So there was the Oscar Levant Show in Los Angeles. Oscar Levant had a talk show. Yeah. Don't be damned. One episode of that survives and Fred Astaire is the guest. And I mean,

who more unlikely to be hosting a talk show than Oscar LeVant? Yeah. He doesn't want to be there at all. It's just him complaining the whole time about how he doesn't

want to do the show. Tell us a little more about Les Crane. His name came up in passing on this show. I think he was married to Tina Louise briefly. Well, the most famous

late night show that ABC had, the only one that succeeded during that era was the Dick Cavett show. But before the Dick Cavett show, there was the Les Crane show. And it came out in 1964, same time slot, right up against Carson. And all the publicity, all the ads, all the billboards said, time for controversy, the controversial Les Crane. But the show hadn't premiered yet. So it's kind of weird to say that something is controversial before it has even occurred. So they were really trying hard to draw viewers away from Carson. They knew they couldn't do it by getting somebody who was as good. So they thought they would have a show that was all controversy.

We'll interview the Ku Klux Klan. We'll interview an out-of-the-closet homosexual. Anything to stir up controversy. And he would take questions from his audience. It was sort of like Phil Donahue, but it was in late night. They did a JFK show or two, a show about the JFK assassination. Probably. Or several. Probably, yeah, like bringing on Mark Lane and Mort Sahl.

Those kind of guys. Yeah, absolutely. And he would have comedians on, but they kept retooling it because whatever they did, they could not draw ratings away from Carson. So they tried to be Mr. Controversy. Then they rebranded it. They got rid of Les Crane for a little while and they had a rotation of guest hosts for about two months. Shelley Berman hosted for a week. Jack Carter hosted for a week. Nipsey Russell hosted for a week. I can't remember who else guest hosted, but they called it Nightlife, and that didn't work either. Nightlife. So they brought Les Crane back, and then it was Nightlife with Les Crane, Les Crane and Nipsey Russell together.

But whatever they tried, it just didn't hit. It didn't work. Everybody who I talked to said it felt contrived. But one of the regulars, like sort of the way Carson had Carol Wayne on, one of Les Crane's Carol Wayne-esque people was Marty Ingalls. I love it. Oh, God. I love it.

I love it. Now, see, this guy that I remember, Alan Burke, he was of that controversial- What, like a Morton Downey type? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Like a tabloid show host. Yeah, like he'd say stuff that you're not supposed to say, you know. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal podcast.

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fried chicken. He loved it so much, he opened Prince's Hot Chicken. This is one of many sounds in Tennessee with a story to tell. To hear them in person, plan your trip at tnvacation.com. Tennessee sounds perfect. And now back to the show. So Crane went off for good in 65, the ABC's Nightlife. Did they put Joey Bishop in that slot? Because Joey Bishop was on ABC. Yes, they did. They tried to retool Les Crane again, I think, in 68.

And I think that version was syndicated. But then Joey Bishop, the Joey Bishop show was next. And the Joey Bishop show was next. And the Joey Bishop show is interesting. Joe Scandori, who was the manager of Don Rickles and Dirty Fields, had some sort of connection there with Joey Bishop. All of his clients were always on that show. And again, there isn't much footage of the Joey Bishop show left in existence on YouTube. You can watch one episode with Sammy Davis Jr. and they both come out in Nehru suits. But not much exists. But you can one episode with Sammy Davis Jr. and they both come out in Nehru suits. But not much exists.

But you can find some of the still photos. Joey Bishop loved to bring out old comedians and parade them out. Guys that Carson would never use. So he brought out

the Ritz brothers in the late 60s on his show. He brought out the Bishop brothers because Joey Bishop had started in a three-man team called the Bishop brothers

with guys that were not his brothers. Did you know that, Gil? No. The Bishop brothers. Yeah you know that, Gil? No. The Bishop Brothers. Yeah, this guy, Rummy Bishop, who looks just like Joey Bishop, but it's not related. I love it. So one of their only TV appearances was on the Joey Bishop show.

And Regis was the sidekick. Regis Philbin was the sidekick. Regis got that gig because he himself had been a talk show host of his own. You sent me a still. Yeah. In San Diego, he had a TV show called That Regis Philbin Show. It was syndicated by Westinghouse, who also syndicated the Steve Allen Show. And the reason Regis got That Regis Philbin Show is because Steve Allen was embroiled in this scandal behind the scenes.

I don't know if I've told this story before, but Steve Allen was a bit of a philanderer behind Jane Meadows' bath. Yikes. And there was a girl singer on the Westinghouse program named Jean Crane. No, that's a movie actress. Yeah, she was a movie actress.

Jean Smith. Jeannie Smith. That's the name. She was a recording star on ABC Paramount. And if you look at a photo of Jeannie Smith, she looks just like Jane Meadows. But apparently her and Steve Allen were having an affair behind the scenes. This is too good.

And around that time, Steve Allen had also created that segment, A Meeting of Minds. Oh, yes. They would dress as Lincoln and people. Remember that? They would dress as people from the period. Yeah. Isaac Newton. Einstein. The only time you saw people from the period. Yeah. Isaac Newton. Einstein.

Yeah. That's the only time you saw Jane Meadows working. Yeah. And they would debate each other. And it wasn't funny. Like, it wasn't supposed to be a comedy segment. It was like a serious segment. And Westinghouse hated that segment because people would change the channel when it was on because it was boring, you know.

The rest of the show was comedy entertainment with Dayton Allen and stuff like that. Dayton Allen. So they said to Steve Allen, we got to get rid of this meeting of minds. And he said, no, I control the show. I'm Steve Allen and it's my pet project and it stays. So Westinghouse was trying to figure out a way to get rid of meeting of minds. Well, Steve Allen is having this affair with the girl singer and Jane Meadows found out and she said, she goes. We got to get rid of her from the show.

And so Steve Allen had to diplomatically distance himself from the girl singer. But during the one taping, apparently, this is according to Pete Barbuti, he told me this. Backstage, this woman, Jeannie Smith, lunged at Steve Allen with a pair of scissors and tried to stab him. And it was going to get out into the news and out into the media. And so Westinghouse invoked the act of God clause or the morals clause in Steve Allen's contract and had him fired from the show. So they got rid of Meeting of Minds and the show, but they still had the time slot. So they brought in Regis Philbin from San Diego, who had been a regional talk show host. And it was the Steve Allen show with guest host Regis Philbin for about a month,

and then without any explanation, it became That Regis Philbin Show. I love that. Yeah. Wow. And so that show lasted about three months, That Regis Philbin Show, and then after it was canceled, the Joey Bishop Show was being prepared at ABC, and they liked what they had seen in Regis, so they hired him to be Joey Bishop's sidekick on the Joey Bishop Show. Now, I heard a story.

So they hired him to be Joey Bishop's sidekick on The Joey Bishop Show. Now, I heard a story. I don't know if I got it straight or anything, but that on The Joey Bishop Show, Regis Philbin started crying. Yes. Yeah, this is the most famous anecdote of The Joey Bishop Show. The critics maligned Regis. They said he was dead weight, that he was annoying, that he was talentless, that he was the reason nobody was watching the Joey Bishop show and the reason that he would never be a true competitor of Johnny Carson. My dad was one of those people, by the way. I'd like to throw that in.

Never liked Regis. So the story is apparently Joey Bishop orchestrated a publicity blitz. He said this would be great for ratings. So he said to Regis, I want you to quit on air. I want you to go on camera and say that you can't take the pressure. You can't handle all these mean things that the critics are saying about you. And for the sake of the show, you're going to quit. But you're not going to quit. You're just going to pretend. And apparently Regis was very, very uncomfortable with this. But Joey Bishop was the boss. So he went on camera during, I guess, the opening monologue and said, you know, Joey, I have an announcement.

And in a way, it was sort of like a recreation of what Jack Parr did, you know, when he walked off of The Tonight Show crying, you know. Regis said, you know, I can't take these critics. And Joey, I love you. And for the sake of the show, I must resign. And the whole audience was like, oh. And he left. And then the next day was front page headlines everywhere. So because of that, now for the next several days, all eyes were on The Joey Bishop Show.

And for the first time, he was actually competing with Carson in the ratings. And then after a week, Joey said, I can't allow you to leave, Regis. You mean too much to the show. Don't listen to the critics. You have to stay. And so they rehired him. But it was all fabricated by Joey Bishop. And Regis was pressured to do that. I'll be damned. Wow. And if we ever succeed in getting Regis into this booth, and we've tried, we'll ask him about that. I'll be damned. Wow. And if we ever succeed in getting Regis into this booth, and we've tried, we'll ask him about that. He said no early on. Very early on. He was one of our early rejections. Yeah, but we can still work on him.

Him and Stella Stevens. Yeah, we're gonna work on him. We don't give up. And Steve Lawrence. But we don't give up. We're undeterred. Why did Steve Lawrence say no? He seems like he would be the perfect... He's the perfect guest for this show. We've had everybody under the sun ask him. Bobby Rydell asked him.

Crazy. I've never interviewed him either, but everybody, George Schlatter, Jack Carter, they all say that Steve Lawrence, not any comedian, but Steve Lawrence is the funniest storyteller in show business. That's what we hear. We're dying to get him. Now, we talked about ABC here with Les Crane and Joey Bishop. Yes. And what about Broadway Open House on NBC? Yeah, Broadway Open House was the first late night program, period.

It was the first late night talk show, but it was more of a variety show than a talk show. It was the precursor of The Tonight Show because it was also orchestrated by the same people at NBC. It used the same studio that today, I guess, is used by Seth Meyers, that studio. It was hosted by Jerry Lester.

Jerry Lester. Did you know that? Oh, my God. He was a talk show host with Dagmar, right? Yes, Dagmar. Wow. Yeah, there was a huge controversy there as well because Dagmar was just a stooge with giant breasts and blonde hair, and she played kind of this ditzy woman.

Milton DeLugg of gong show fame was the band leader. And it was the first template where you had the talk show host doing an opening monologue and bantering with the band leader on the side stage, and they would cut to him and back and forth. It was the original format of that Doc Severinsen Carson sort of template. And they introduced Dagmar onto the show. I guess Jerry Lester and his wife knew her from somewhere. She had been like a model.

And they brought her on just as kind of a dumb blonde character to make fun of. And in her premiere episode, Milton DeLugg, the band leader, brings her out and says, Hey, Jerry, I want to introduce you to the new singer in the band. And Jerry Lester goes, how does she sound? And then you see this shot of this voluptuous, big-titted woman. He goes, who cares? You know, that was their big introduction. She became extremely popular on Broadway open house,

so much so that when they profiled the program Life Magazine, they interviewed Jerry Lester and they shadowed the show for a week, and Jerry Lester was really puffed up. Oh, I'm going to have a Life Magazine feature on me on my show, Broadway Open House. The issue of Life Magazine comes out and Dagmar is on the cover and Jerry Lester is nowhere to be seen. And the whole feature is about how great Dagmar is. I love it. So around that time, Jerry Lester decided to fire Dagmar. And it wasn't long after that, the show got canceled, its popularity plummeted. It didn't even last a full year. But it was the first show to air in

that time slot 11pm to midnight, I think rather than 1130 to 1230. It aired live from New York on WNYC. Sorry, WNET, which became WNBC. And they had to get a live studio audience. And in those days, it was very difficult to get any kind of a TV audience, let alone one at 1130 at night. So they used to go to Grand Central Station. Morrie Amsterdam would corral people who were waiting for a bus to come and sit in the audience. Isn't that great, Gil? Ah.

Yeah. And at one point, Jerry Lester was demanding a raise. Again, this was also almost a precursor of what happened with Jack Barr later on, making demands of the network. He wanted less time to work and more money. Jerry Lester said, five nights a week is too much. Nobody can do a show Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, and remain fresh. So I want time off. So they hired Maury Amsterdam, and they split the workload. So Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday was Jerry Lester, Broadway Open House. Thursday, Friday was Maury Amsterdam, Broadway Open House. Jerry Lester then demanded a raise. They wouldn't give it to him. They gave him a radio show on NBC Radio instead

to kind of placate him. And eventually he just became too difficult to work with and NBC just fired him. And then in the final, I think, two or three weeks that Broadway Open House was on the air, they used every comedian in New York to guest host. And this was the first TV for a lot of these people. Jackie Leonard hosted for a week and Hal March hosted for a week. Hal March, I've got a secret. Yeah, Hal March, who was a $64,000 question. $64,000 question. Yeah, Hal March, who was a $64,000 question. $64,000 question. Yeah, a lot of these comedians could not compete with the game show craze. And just like Groucho, they started hosting game shows.

George DeWitt, Hal March, all kind of obscure names now, but they were all stand-up comics in the 40s. Now, of importance only to me. Don't be so sure. I think that Jamaican talk show host name was Bandy. Bandy? Bandy. Never heard of her. Did you come up with anything, Dara?

Nope. She has nothing. She's shaking her head no. Okay, so as usual, we'll put that out. Yeah. I think it was Bandy, like John Bandy or something. Bandy. Bandy.

Tackles the issues. Bandy. Yes. So let's hit the last network quick. Let's hit Merv Griffin's show, the first one in August of 69. That's the second one. Oh, that's the second one. The first Merv Griffin.

Well, actually, no, that's the third one. The first one, Merv Griffin, didn't last long. 1963 was actually a daytime talk show. Right. But Merv Griffin and Jerry Lewis, when Jack Parr left and before Johnny Carson took over, there were about nine months where they had no host of The Tonight Show. So they used guest hosts for nine months approximately. My timing might be a little bit off here. But Johnny Carson was under contract to ABC hosting a game show called Who Do You Trust?

So they wouldn't let him out of the contract. So they used all these guest hosts. And among them were Jack Carter, Groucho Marx, Art Linkletter, Merv Griffin, and Jerry Lewis. Merv Griffin and Jerry Lewis were the ones who were the most successful guest hosts. And so much so that NBC thought, oh, shit, maybe we made a mistake in signing Johnny Carson because maybe Jerry Lewis would be better or maybe Merv Griffin would be better. They wanted to sign Jerry Lewis, but he got signed by ABC

and had his notorious talk show disaster. The two-hour one? The two-hour one. Yes, yes. It's infamous. Oh, God. So Jerry Lewis got that gig

because of how successful his Tonight Show guest hosting was during this period. Likewise, Merv Griffin was signed by NBC to do basically what was a daytime version of The Tonight Show. Johnny Carson's Tonight Show and Merv Griffin's first show

premiered on the exact same day on NBC, Merv during the day and Johnny during the night, and they were almost identical shows. And there aren't too many surviving copies of that original Merv show. There's one where Danny Kaye is the guest and Shelley Berman is the stand-up. It's fascinating to watch all the things you've heard about Danny Kaye you can see on display in this, with the exception of being sodomized. Yes. By Lawrence Olivia. Yeah, Lawrence Olivia. You don't see that.

Putting his finger in his hand. You don't see that. Putting his finger in his ass. But you see Shelly Berman doing his stand-up act, and then you see Danny Kaye come out from behind the curtain, upstaging Shelly Berman's meticulous storytelling, and the audience is going crazy, and Shelly Berman can't get back into his act, and Danny Kaye just takes over and just destroys Shelly Berman's moment.

The only Merv episode. Oh, I just wanted to say it's like, Unbelievable. Yeah. The only Merv episode. Oh, I just wanted to say it's like it's a funny thing that when Jerry Lewis would, you know, guest host The Tonight Show. Yeah. Always successful. And he was always great in that.

And he was always very popular. And yet when he got his talk show, it was infamously bad. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I think maybe it's just a small doses theory, perhaps. I don't know. But his hubris ruined the Jerry Lewis show. He had no game plan. No. They would interview him. What are you going to do? He goes, I don't know. I'll be loose. If my guests are tense, I'll be tense. If my guests are fun, I'll be fun. Like, Jerry, that doesn't'll be tense. If my guests are fun, I'll be fun. Like, Jerry, that doesn't make any sense. Like, what are you talking about?

So I don't really know, but if you ever watch the surviving footage of him guest hosting The Tonight Show, I think the legend of how great it was is maybe overblown.

Oh, yeah. Because you watch it and the guest is Jack Carter on the surviving episode and there's probably no more too obnoxious comedians of the 60s than Jerry Lewis and Jack Carter. the surviving episode and it's there's probably no more two obnoxious comedians of the 60s

than Jerry Lewis and Jack Carter where do you find these at the Bailey Center where do you where do you get access to these you just

the Jerry Lewis show is on YouTube the Jerry Lewis somebody YouTube is amazing because stuff keeps surfacing I guess so and that Merv Griffin

episode I mentioned is on a box set of Merv Griffin shows I remember on Jerry Lewis's talk show, he had as his co-host Charlie Callis. Right. Yeah.

And then Jerry Lewis brings up someone's death. And it was some guy like outside of show business. Nobody would know who the fuck. The mawkish Jerry. Yeah. No one would know who the fuck. The mawkish Jerry. Yeah, no one would know who the fuck you're talking about. And Jerry says to Charlie, he goes, so as in honor of, you know, Charlie Finkelman or whoever,

in honor of Charlie Finkelman, I think we should have a moment of silence. So I'm sure the sponsors were going, Charlie Finkelman, I think we should have a moment of silence. So I'm sure the sponsors were going, oh, so we're paying a few thousand for a moment of silence. And to make it worse, Jerry Lewis takes out either a cigarette pack or a gold-plated cigarette holder and gives a cigarette to Charlie Callis, and he lights one up and he says, so we'll just sit here, have a smoke, and just remember him. And I thought, this guy probably died of lung cancer, most likely. So it's like, it makes it that much worse.

Oh, man. That is hilarious. We should wrap only because you've got to go. We've got somebody coming in to do another episode. Quickly, Bill Dana hosted a talk show? Bill Dana. There was an attempt at a fourth network long before Fox in the mid-60s. The United Network.

The United Network. The United Network. And it was considered, apparently, according to Bill Dana, it was like a tax shelter scheme. They built up this TV network. It was going to be coast to coast. It came out of Las Vegas, but it was so that these mob guys in Vegas could stash their money somehow. Wow. And so they gave Bill Dana his own talk show, and it was called The Las Vegas Show on the

United Network. Pete Barbuti was a regular on this show. Jack Sheldon was the band leader. I love Jack Sheldon. And I think it only lasted maybe two or three weeks. It got tons of press. Every comedian that was performing in Vegas at the time appeared on it. Shecky Green, Don Rickles, this incredible talent list.

But all the people that were producing it and directing it and working for Bill Dana were people from game shows. So it was sort of like the producers, apparently. There was no intention of this thing ever succeeding. They wanted it to fail, and then they were able to write everything off and get off scot-free with this tax-free money. So that's according to Bill Dana. Yeah, the Las Vegas show. I remember very, very vague recollections of seeing an episode of the Bill Dana show. Yeah. Well, his talk show was, I think it was maybe also two hours or 90 minutes. It was a long, long program. Las Vegas show.

And supposedly there were supposed to be other shows on that network, the United Network, but there never were. This says it lasted, according to Wikipedia anyway, it said it lasted May 1st to June 5th of 1967. There you go. This kind of seems like, you know that part in Casino where Robert De Niro puts on his own talk show? Yes.

Totally. A little bit. There is no stumping you, my friend. Oh, I got stumped twice. I never heard of Bandy. Well, we're going to get... I think it's a fever dream. If anybody out there remembers a talk show host, a black talk show host named Bandy. And it wasn't something that sprung out of your act. Bandy on the beat.

The only man in America that could let names like Pete Barbooty and Woody Woodbury trip off his tongue, Cliff Nesteroff. Here's something. Now, both there are legendary stories of, because you mentioned Shelly Berman, that Shelly Berman, because he was on, he was doing like the cameras were following him for the day. And he started yelling at someone. Yeah. And that wrecked his career.

And the other one was Jackie Mason. Yes. Giving the finger on Sullivan. But then I, maybe it was your book or something that said it wasn't either one of those. They just couldn't stand. They were both just tremendous assholes. So the legends of both of them, it's not the case. These two were pricks.

Yeah, those are the legends perpetuated by them, right? They always said that that caused their career, but it wasn't true. I know we have to go. That's okay. Tell us what's going on, Plug. What do you want to plug? You've got a series. You've got the book is in paperback.

In February on CNN, we've got the history of comedy coming out. Very exciting. Eight-episode miniseries. Gilbert was interviewed for it. It's going to be great. It's produced by the same people who made the Decade series, the 60s, the 70s, the 80s. Oh, is it Tom Hanks' company? The Playtone?

No, it's multiple, the 80s. Oh, is it Tom Hanks Company? The Playtone? Yeah. No, it's – well, it's multiple production companies. Okay. Okay. So that's in February. And then I have my own podcast coming out, the Classic Showbiz Podcast, which is nothing like this. It's a scripted and labor-intensive and it's giving me ulcers. But it's a written podcast, little anecdotes from the history of comedy, stuff about the

mafia. We have an episode about comedians in LSD in the 60s and stuff like that. So those are coming down the pike soon enough. Wonderful. And I would like to plug Charlize Theron. Not again. No. Thank you, Cliff.

Thank you. Your research, your help, your blog, your book, everything is invaluable to this show. I have the kindred spirits in this booth. Thank you, Kissel Nechelman. Thank you, Kissel. His book is comedians. The comedians. The comedians. And you

could get it in paperback. Yes, sir. Mr. Neudelhopper. Yes, sir. Yes. Colossal Obsessions Colossal Obsessions