Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - Richard Masur

Episode Date: February 15, 2021

Gilbert and Frank talk to Emmy- and Oscar-nominated actor-director Richard Masur about his 6-decade acting career, his years as president of the Screen Actors Guild, his numerous collaborations with mentor Norman Lear and his role in the infamous "Heaven's Gate." Also, Francis Ford Coppola welcomes feedback, Jack Nicholson replaces Mandy Patinkin, John Carpenter remakes "The Thing" and Richard shares drinks (and the screen) with Pat McCormick. PLUS: "Scavenger Hunt!" "Hot l Baltimore"! Remembering Ben Johnson! The wisdom of Robert Preston! And Richard praises co-stars Gene Hackman, Sidney Poitier and Meryl Streep! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Ontario only. Gambling problem? Call Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. For those who embrace the impossible,

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with my co-host, Frank Santopadre. Our guest this week is a writer, an Oscar-nominated director, an Emmy-nominated performer, and one of the most prolific, visible, and admired actor of the last 50 years. You've seen this man's face on one screen or another your entire life in dozens of classic television shows, including All in the Family, MASH, The Mary Tyler Moore Show, Rhoda, Happy Days, Murphy Brown, Amazing Stories, L.A. Law, Picket Fences, Girls, The Good Wife, Orange is the New Black, Transparent, and of course, as Anne Romano's long-suffering boyfriend, David Cain, in a series produced by his friend and mentor, Norman Lear, one day at a time. He's also acted in TV movies such as Fallen Angel, Adam, When the Bough Breaks, The Burning Bed, receiving an Emmy nomination for

that role. And he's appeared in over 80 feature films, including Semi-Tough, Who Stopped the Rain, Heaven's Gate, Under Fire, The Thing, Risky Business, Heartburn, The Believer, Six Degrees of Separation, Shoot to Kill, My Girl, and Multiplicity, just to name a few. His latest film is called Before, During, After, and he's very funny in it. He's also appeared on the Broadway stage in productions of The Changing Room,

Democracy, and Nora Ephron's Lucky Guy. And from 1995 to 1999, he fought for the rights of his fellow actors by serving two terms as president of Screen Actors Guild. Screen Actors Guild. And I intend to ask him why I never got my residuals from Funky Monkey. Please welcome to the show one of our favorite actors and a man who says he used to be the youngest actor on the set. Now he's the oldest actor on the set. The talented and versatile Richard Masser. Hey, Gilbert. How you doing? Hi. Now, I don't know if you remember this, but we sat next to each other on a plane. I do. Yeah. It was exciting for me. You're always exciting, Gilbert.

We figured out that Gilbert sat next to you, Mike Nesmith, who produced a movie you were in. Yes, he did. Time writer. And who else, Gilbert? George Carlin and... John Leguizamo. John Leguizamo. John Leguizamo. So you should book people on planes.

And I didn't sit next to, but sat two rows down from Carl Reiner. Nice. So that I'll put in. Nice. I once sat next to George Clooney on a plane. Nice. We had a great visit also. We knew each other from when I was actually from when I was president of the union. George is a great supporter of SAG-AFTRA and then Screen Actors Guild before that. And I've sat next to a bunch of other people, but I can't remember them right now.

I don't know if that happens to you. I think a little older than you are. But more and more, it's happening to me. And now also, a short while ago, my wife was looking at my medical things and financial and and she had figured out that I would never have to pay a dime for a doctor ever again. That changed. Starting off on a downer huh gil yes do you think that will ever go back well and let me let me point out first of all um it was never the case that you were never going to have to pay a dime you're always going to have to pay some dimes um number one number two uh if you want me to go into this I can I can do the entire show on this topic alone but probably not and how did you first go into show business weren't you pre-med

Richard I was I was I I boy you do your homework Frank that's. I do what I can. Yes. So I went to the State University of New York at Stony Brook and I was, yeah, I was always planning to be a doctor and they didn't have a pre-med major. So I was majoring in biology and it was a big science school. Well, it was a small science school, but it was very heavily invested in science when I got there. And so I had to take calculus. I had to take a science other than biology my freshman year. And for some insane reason, I also signed up for Russian, which was like the hardest. Aside from Mandarin, it's like the hardest. It's a whole different alphabet.

And all the sounds are in the back of your voice like this. It's a very difficult language. So I remember the first conversation, though. Привет, Nina. Куда вы идете? На рок пьянья. Вы домой? Нет.

Я иду на посту. Послать письмо. Which is, hi, Nina, how you doing? And he says, do you want to come with me to the store? And she says, no, I'm going to the post office to mail a letter. So I know this, much Russian, from that first year. Anyway, I kind of and I also took anthropology, which ended up being my major, by the way, because I loved anthropology. But in that freshman year, in the winter on a snowy cold night, a guy that I knew,

a guy named Jim Kennedy, was going to audition for a production of Our Town. Now, Stony Brook was a brand new school. They built a Van de Graaff generator, which was a particle accelerator because they were trying to attract this Nobel Prize winner, C.N. Yang, to come to the school. And they did, which really put them on the map. But they had not built the theater. So the theater was in a wrestling room that was part of the gym and the ceiling was like 10 feet tall. It was the weirdest space to have a theater in.

And it was a black box, a little tiny low ceiling black box with some risers. So I go there with Jim. It's really cold. And I sit in the back and I'm waiting until he finishes. And he does the audition. Everybody's done. And the director looks up and looks at me and I'm this big hulking guy with long hair and a beard. And she said, you want to audition? I said, not really. And she said, no, come on, read something. And I said, all right. So I read something. I don't remember what.

I think it was Mr. Gibbs or Dr. Gibbs or Mr. Webb. I don't remember. But those parts were already cast. So she offered me, the director offered me the part of Howie Newsome, The Milkman. And I took it. And then I started doing theater. When I told my, and this is the God's honest truth, and she should rest in peace. But when I told my parents, I went home and I told them I was dropping out of college

to take a job at a theater. And they said, why are you dropping out? And I said, because I want to be an actor. And she said, my mother, who was the most liberal woman who ever lived, she was a school teacher in the Bronx. And a gay couple moved in across the street from us in Yonkers. And she was the only person in the entire block by she and my father who invited them over for dinner immediately you know that's and so when I said I wanted to be an actor she said you know if you do this you're gonna turn out to be a

homosexual and I said I said I said to her have you met me have you met me because I don't think that's in the cards I mean it would be okay if it was Because I don't think that's in the cards. I mean, it would be okay if it was, but I don't think we're going that way. Turns out my sister did turn out to be a lesbian, which my mother had no way of knowing at the time. So you call this stuff down on your head. And I'm not saying anything that anybody in my family would be embarrassed about my saying. I want to underscore that. Of course, of course.

You know, Norman became your mentor of sorts. Oh, well, Norman was my godfather. I mean, he saw me in a changing room. He invited me to, he offered me the part of, a part in a pilot that ended up never getting made. He was, do you remember on All in the Family, there was a couple that lived next door. The Lorenzos. Yeah, Vince Gardenia and Betty Garrett. And they were role reversed, like he cooked and he baked and she was a plumber and a handy

person. So, he was going to spin them off and he wanted me to play their son. So, I would be this kind of this product of this role reverse family. And it was all set. I was supposed to do it in February of 1974 and I got a call in November or maybe December, my agent called and said, they're not doing the pilot. I said, what happened? And they said, Vince dropped out. He didn't want to do it.

Gardenia. Yeah. And he didn't, and Norman wasn't going to. And my huge regret was that I never got to work with Betty, who I just thought the world of. From the minute I first saw her on the town, I was in love with this woman. I didn't care about Ann Murray. I didn't care about, what's her name, the blonde, oh, God, I'm remembering. Sally Struthers?

No, no, no, no, no. The blonde on the town. Oh, God, was it? You have to look at it. I'm only thinking, Jules Munchen is the only one that comes to mind. Right, Jules is not the blonde. Betty Garrett, right, Gene Kelly, Frank Sinatra. It'll come to me. Now, you're one of those actors in that category. That's me. Oh, that guy. That is actually my, that's my official equity name.

Oh, that guy. And I've stuck with it because it would be confusing to change it. Vera Ellen from White Christmas. Vera Ellen. Thank you. That's right. And Ann Miller. So how do people react to you when you're walking down the street?

Well, it's, here's the thing. When I first, when I first, when I did the Hot El Baltimore, which was the first series I did, which was a great, another, that was Norman also, and that, he just offered me that. That was amazing experience. That's a really long story. I won't go through all that. But when I did the Hot El Baltimore, some people would spot me, but the show wasn't a huge hit. It had a wildly, what's the word, loyal audience, mostly of college kids. But ABC ran the show on Friday night, and we lost a lot of audience to dates, you know, because Friday was the worst night to have a show that the college kids liked.

So they moved us to Thursday eventually, but it was too late by then. And they put us up against the Rockford Files, which was horrible. Okay, you got killed by the Rockford Files, which was horrible. Okay. Oh, you got killed by the Rockford Files? Yeah, totally. Anyway, but so, the Hot Elbow I didn't get much off of. But when I did One Day at a Time, that was a

giant hit. And after the first 15 episodes, which was the first half season, I basically, I was off the show. I mean, I went there, I told Norman that I didn't think the character was sustainable as we were doing it. And he came to me and he said, you were right. And I think I want to figure out a way to fix it. And I said, no, you should write me off the show. And he said, now I had an all shows produced contract, which was a really good contract.

And back then, that meant 24 episodes. It was a lot of shows. And no, I lied, 22, 13 and 9, 22. And so, Norman had to, if he wanted me to come back and do one episode, he had to pay me for 22. So he says, so I'd like you to give me 12 shows. And I said, no. I said, I'll give you two. I'll come back and do two so you can write me off.

He said, 10. I said, two. He said, eight. I said, two. I said, six. He said, six. I said, two. And finally eight. I said two. I said six. He said six. I said two. And finally said four. I said, okay, I can't be a total asshole. I'll say four. So, I did four more episodes. And I said to him, the only requirement I have is you have to kill me. I said, what do you mean? I said, I want to die on camera

so you can never bring me back. Like Henry Blake. Yeah. I said, he refused to do it. Anyway. Let's jump around, Richard, because you're also in, and Gilbert and I were discussing this, you're also in a legendary picture, a movie that changed the way business was being done in Hollywood, the way films were being made in Hollywood, and that's Heaven's Gate. Yes. Cimino's famous or infamous picture, which, by the way, I went back and rewatched, and I agree with you. There's so many wonderful things about it, and I think much the way Ishtar is much maligned, is unfairly maligned. This picture is unfairly maligned. Well, I think this is a better picture than Ishtar in my opinion. Yeah, I just meant in the same way that they're both dismissed as mega bombs.

Right. But the reason for it was Michael. And this is why. Look, he wrote a brilliant script, just an absolutely breathtakingly wonderful script. Then he won the Academy Award for Deer Hunter. While he was in production, right? While he was in production.

No, before. Before, yeah. And this, just before. And this $17 million picture became a $35 million picture overnight. And then while we were shooting it, it became a $50 million picture, which was many times most, you know, an average high budget film at that point was $7 million. So, this was insane. We shot a million and a half feet of film on Heaven's Gate.

Apocalypse Now shot less. Wow. And we, Michael actually threw a party to celebrate when we surpassed the footage that Coppola had shot on Apocalypse. It was crazy. Oh my God. It was all crazy. But here's the thing.

I was present on the side of a mountain for the moment that, in my opinion, and this is not in the book. Final cut. It's not in the book because there were a handful of us who were on the side of this mountain. It was my death scene in the movie. Yeah, Kali. It's a great scene. Yeah.

And we were out in the back of beyond. We were way out in Glacier National Park. Literally, it was a two-hour drive to the base camp and another 45-minute drive or horseback ride, either that or four-wheel drive, into where we were actually shooting. It was so remote. And Michael, of course, went back and forth by helicopter but we all made that schlep. And so, what happened was, oh God, I just blanked on his name, the guy who had become head of UA at that moment. Was it Begelman? David Begelman?

Begelman, yes. Begelman. Begelman. So, David Begelman who had just been made like the head of production for UA, I forget exactly, or for MGM UA. He had flown out because we were so behind schedule that the scene which opens the movie Heaven's Gate, which was supposed to shoot at Harvard. Harvard was not going to allow us to shoot there because another film called The Small Circle of Friends had shot there and apparently trashed the place. And Harvard said they would not allow another film in. So, when we lost Harvard, and we were going to, by the way, we were going to shut down in Montana. They were

going to go and shoot the Harvard stuff and then come back because they needed spring because it was a graduation ceremony. So instead, they go looking for a place to shoot. Now, William and Mary College was of the same era as Harvard and very similar architecture. They were both kind of modeled on some of the colleges at Oxford. And the setting was supposed to be Oxford, by the way. So, they went, they scouted. Michael was so pissed off about losing Harvard. And he was, like I said, at this point, he was like out of control. He said, I'm not going to this William and Mary, which is in Virginia, I believe, and where it was going to be green a lot longer or a lot earlier, I forget. So, Michael said, we're going to go to England and shoot. And they said,

you're not going to England. He said, oh, yes, we are. And what we're going to do is we're going to shut down, we're going to go there, and then we're going to come back and finish the picture, which is exactly what happened. But Beigelman flew out to tell him he couldn't do it. And I'm standing there with a squib in my forehead with a false ear on that's going to get blown off with another squib. I got blood packs all over my body. I'm getting ready

to have the shit shot out of me. And they're having this conversation right next to me with Joanne Corelli, who's the producer of the film. And they're trying to say, Michael, you can't do this. Listen. And they're trying to say, Michael, you can't do this. Listen. And Michael turns to him and he says, look, I'm doing it. And if you don't like it, you can take me off the picture. That's fine. But then it won't be a Michael Cimino film.

And I'm standing there having lived through the last four and a half weeks with this madness. And all I'm thinking is, say, that'll be just fine, Michael. That's what I'm thinking. Beigelman has to say these words. That'll be okay, Michael. You don't want it to be a Michael Cimino film. It won't be a Michael Cimino film. But instead, he said, oh, no, no, that's not what we want. And boom, they went to Harvard, everything. And it went to $50 million. And it became this, the reason it was thought of as such a catastrophe is Michael wouldn't let anybody see the movie until it opened. And Coppola, bless his heart, showed this to every director that he had any respect for. They gave him notes.

He did sneak previews and did audience feedback. What didn't you understand? What did you understand? Re-cut, went re-shot. Later in the entire narration was the result of it not making any sense. You mean Apocalypse Now. Yeah, Apocalypse Now. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

The Coppola. Michael didn't do any of that. And he fired Tom Rolfe, one of the great editors of my generation, you know, of the time where I lived through. He fired him because Tom wouldn't do crazy stuff that he wanted him to do. He fired him because Tom wouldn't do crazy stuff that he wanted him to do. So, P.S., that was Heaven's Gate. There's a lot to like about the film, man.

You're very proud of your performance. I'm very proud of my performance. I think Isabelle Huppert is breathtaking in the movie. Jeff Bridges is great. And I'll tell you something else. I think Chris Christopherson is wonderful in this film. There's a little bit of Michael kind of fell into this Russian rhythm when he was putting the film together. So, everything became incredibly extended and there was some of it that didn't serve Chris but he's really, really, really

he has some absolutely great moments in the film and the whole rest of the cast, it was a wonderful group of people. And a beautiful movie to look at. Yes. I think Vilma Sigman, if not his absolute best, one of the two best things he ever shot. And you've said that he was, and Gilbert, you know, we appreciate these films, Peckinpah, John Ford, that you've said in interviews that that's what he was trying to do. He was, absolutely. He, listen, Bobby Vesiglia, I can't believe I'm remembering this stuff. Bobby Vesiglia, you guys are like- Nice job.

You guys are like Prevagen for me. It's called Prevagen. Prevagen, yeah. Stuff made out of jellyfish. I'm remembering things. Bobby Vesiglia, who was the prop master, had been Peckinpah's prop master on two of his films, which is why Michael hired him. Peckinpah's prop master on two of his films, which is why Michael hired him. But here's how crazy it was. There's a scene where the train pulls up and Chris gets off the train. It's my big scene in the movie and one of my big scenes. And anyway, these kids come up to me and they're hustling me for change and I take some change out of my pocket and I give it to them. up to me and they're hustling me for change and I take some change out of my pocket and I give it to them. The change in my pocket had to be pre-1893 and Michael asked to see it. Oh, man.

There couldn't be a coin in my pocket that wasn't legitimate. I mean, it was madness. Obsessiveness. No one ever saw the stuff. We had a vegetable market, fruit and vegetable market set up in the broiling hot sun in Wallace, Idaho, where we shot this big scene that sat there for days and days and the food would and Bobby said, let me put wax and plastic out. You'll never know the difference. And Michael said, I want fresh fruit and vegetables. We burned up and rotted days and days worth of fresh fruit and vegetables.

Every day, it was craziness. Just madness. People should read the book. See the movie and also read Final Cut. But I think it's a really outstanding film in many ways. Me too. Me too. It has been called the most controversial motion picture of its time.

It is the most talked about and written about film of the decade. most talked about and written about film of the decade. Now, from the director of The Deer Hunter, United Artists presents Michael Cimino's Heaven's Gate. The story of Jim Averill. He was born into the world of the rich and powerful, but his heart and dreams were with the people. dreams were with the people. Heaven's Gate. The story of a man's love for a woman. For a people.

For a land. For a spirit that would never die. Chris Christopherson in Michael Cimino's Heaven's Gate. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal podcast after this. and swing for the fences with BetMGM, the king of sportsbooks. Log in or sign up to play along as BetMGM brings the real-time action. Embrace a season's worth of swings with BetMGM,

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Can he tell us anything at all that he remembers about the comedy, the all-star comedy, Scavenger Hunt? Oh, that's the thing I was talking about before we started, where I said I meant to tell you to look at this film. This was a great – this guy, I – God, I'm blanking on his name. He was the producer of the film and the writer as well. He wanted to do a remake – not a remake, but a version of It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World. That was his idea.

So, it was a hell's a pop and crazy right right it was set up that that um um vincent price was the guy he was like milton bradley okay he was the guy he ran this big toy company the opening scene is he's on his deathbed and he dies and he hands his last will and testament to this nurse who's in this very kind of sexy nurse outfit. Anyway, then they do a reading of the will and there are all these weird people there. There's a cab driver, there's a guy with two young children, there's all these people, all who have some relationship to this man. And me, Cloris Leachman and Richard Benjamin, and we are his grandson, his daughter, and our lawyer, Richard Benjamin. So, I was the grandson. I modeled this character. His name

also was Clifford, I think. Yes, he was Clifford. I played two Cliffords. And he modeled this character. I modeled this character after a little boy who lived next to me where I lived in LA. His name was Nicky. And Nicky was this little, you know, he would run around screaming at the top of his lungs. He would pick his, you know, he was picking his underwear out of his ass all the time. And he had this face that he would make where he'd stick his jaw out. He'd like look at you and go, what? What? So, this crazy kind of, and he didn't wear thick glasses, but I had to make me glasses

that were so thick I couldn't see through them. They were horrible. Even though they were clear glass, they were just, it was like literally looking through the bottom of a Coke bottle. And I just played this entire thing like a four-year-old, which is what Dickie was, but in a 30-some-odd-year-old body. Now, Scavenger Hunt, this ties into Heaven's Gate. was the movie I was making when I was signed to make, I should say, I was already committed to make it, when I went in to read For Heaven's Gate.

I read For Heaven's Gate, not the part they sent me there for. I read this other guy who was supposed to be a 65-year-old Irishman, and instead I read it, and I was a 32-year-old Irishman and instead I read it and I was a 32-year-old Irishman, whatever I was. So, and then I get offered the thing and I never seen the whole script. I get sent the script and I get offered it while I'm on location on Scavenger Hunt. And the problem is my start date is three days before I'm scheduled to finish scavenger hunt so I'm about to lose heaven's gate because I'm doing this for cock the scavenger and so my agent calls them up and they said look, is there any chance you can push a start date back?

And they had started shooting the movie and they were already two weeks behind. They said, not a problem, not a problem. He can come three days later. It's not a problem, which made me so happy. I'm glad you didn't miss out. Yeah. But anyway, so Scavenger Hunt was maniacal. It was all these great people.

It was Robert Morley and- James Coco. Jimmy Coco and Cleavon Little and Stephanie Farrisee. Tony Randall, Ruth Gordon. Tony Randall. What's his name? Oh, God. I'll read you the cast.

Roddy McDowell, Scatman, Jimmy Coco, Cleavon Little, Richard Mulligan. Right, Mulligan. Oh, my God. He was so good. Pat McCormick. Yeah. Yeah, Pat. Jesus.

Do you have any memories of these people? Oh, I have very vivid memories. I could do an hour on just this shoot. Because part of the scene, we were all on a scavenger hunt in these different teams because we're all competing with each other. Though in the reading of the will, what he says is if you want, you can all get together and agree to share and you can all have a piece of the estate. But if you want to compete for it, here's what you have to collect. So, it was craziness. And Cloris, who was a great actress, I mean a great actress, one of the

funniest people. She's great. A great actor. Treasure. Also, can be really challenging. And Richard Benjamin and I regularly kept each other. One or the other of us would be holding the other one back when the other one wanted to go after Cloris physically because something was going on. And Michael Schultz, who directed it, who had done this wonderful movie called Car Wash.

Sure. And did other good movies too. Cooley High. Yeah. He was absolutely not the right guy to do this because he was not a manager of crazy people. And we were crazy people, all of us. So when we, at the end of the hunt, we are all together. We were on the estate in, oh God, in Pasadena, that amazing estate where the blue boy is. Oh, is that the Huntington?

The Huntington. Huntington Gardens? Yeah. Yeah, we were out there shooting. That was the mansion. And there were all these roped off areas, but we had three ostriches. We had, you know, all kinds of weird things that we had to collect and put in our individual pens. And there was a lot of downtime. And so, we were all sitting together

for like four or five days while we were shooting this. And I can't even tell you what that experience was like. I would sit there looking. Robert Morley had eyebrows that were three inches long. I've never seen anything like this in my life. And I kept looking at him and saying, how do you make that happen? And he said, it just happens. I said, no, but I mean, I've never seen anything like this. He said, well, they're false. I put them on every morning. And I said, really? And he said, yes. I said, no. He said, yes. And I said, may I? He said, yes. And I went to pull them. He said, no, they're real. I love that.

I had dinner with him one night at an Italian restaurant in Hollywood, I forget the name of it. And it was one of the most amazing experiences I've ever had. And I was driving a Porsche, which was a real challenge for Morley to get into and out of. And when he left, apparently, his cigar, he had this lovely leather cigar case and apparently it fell out of his pocket and i found it two days later and we were all gone and i sent it to him in england and he wrote me this beautiful note thanking me for it because it meant a lot to him that's sweet we were just talking about robert morley remember gilbert oh he was in uh one of those Vincent Price comedies. Yeah. Horror comedies.

Did you interact with Price directly, Richard? No, no. He worked the one day, and it was just him and the crew and the nurse. How about Pat McCormick? Just because this is... Oh, okay. Madness. We know what show we're on.

Madness. You were in another movie with him. Yes. You were in that Richard Widmark Western. Yes. Yes. Tom Horn or Mr. Horn. Mr. Horn. Mr. Horn. And yeah, we came out before Tom Horn, which was the Steve McQueen version. We did the David Carradine version. What do you remember about Pat? Anything in particular? What do you remember about Pat? Anything in particular? I had several drinks with him on more than one occasion and other things.

He was one of the funniest people I've ever been near in my life. You knew him Gilbert, right? No. Oh, okay. He was really, he was one of them and he told me this amazing thing about writing. No matter how absolutely shit-faced blotto he got of an evening, he would get up every morning at six o'clock and write between 6 and 9 o'clock every morning. He wanted to get it out of the way. And it was his commitment to his art, I guess. He didn't express it that way.

But the idea of this guy being able to get out of bed, I never could have gotten up at 6 in the morning if I wasn't being paid to do it. And I don't know that he did it every day while we were shooting, but he probably wrote as long as he could before he had to go to work. I bet he got up at six o'clock every morning. And I was so amazed by that. I just, I couldn't get over it. Now, what actor have you worked with where you thought i can't believe i'm standing next to this guy oh a whole a whole raft of them robert preston when one of my first movies um well my first movie i worked with lana turner that was amazing um a film that nobody ever saw. But my first real movie, I counted as my first real movie was Semi-Tough and Preston played the guy who owned the football team, Jill Kleberg played his

daughter, Burt Reynolds was the star quarterback and Chris Christopherson was the wide receiver. And I only had eyes for Preston. I was so amazingly impressed with him. And one day, you've been on film sets, you will appreciate this. Yeah, and you've been on film sets. You will appreciate this. One day, Bert had a bus that had been converted into a trailer because Dolly Parton had a bus and he had worked with her. No, he had met her.

He hadn't worked with her yet. And he had the same conversion done because she had a bus that was converted into a trailer, but it was also the bus that she toured in. He didn't need a bus to tour in. But anyway, he had this giant thing. Jill and Chris each had very big trailers back in the day when they were very big trailers. And Preston was in the honeyagon in a two-banger, which is to say he had two Honeywagon rooms next to each other. And for those people listening who

don't know what it is, a Honeywagon is a series of small dressing rooms with individual staircases on a trailer, on a 40-foot trailer. And then there's a bathroom in some of them, On a trailer, on a 40-foot trailer. And then there's a bathroom in some of them. And then there's a men's room and a ladies room that's also that are separate in some part of the honey wagon. So, Preston had two adjoining rooms that they took the adjoining thing out from. So, he had a little bit more space space but he was in the fucking honey wagon so one day we'd been shooting at this point for maybe seven or eight weeks in texas where it was

so cold it was unbelievable the coldest i've ever been in my life and and and and this was before down really was a big thing and this was uh 76. And Burt Reynolds had this featherweight, huge Eddie Bauer down jacket that his dresser would come and throw over his shoulders whenever they cut. And I had bought, because I went to Texas thinking that weather was going to be relatively mild and it was so cold. I had gone to a mall and bought a sheepskin coat that, you know, like a Marlboro man coat that weighed about a thousand pounds, which, and what we had to do was we'd all, we'd take our clothes off, we'd suck ice cubes so we weren't blowing smoke all over the place. And we'd shoot these scenes that were set in Miami.

So, instead, now we're in Long Beach and we're shooting a scene that's set, of course, in Green Bay, Wisconsin in the middle of the winter. So, we're all bundled up. And every day, Michael Ritchie who directed the film was very, I don't know if he was influenced by Robert Altman, but he, Hal Ashby, Altman, they all were doing similar things in that they would bring in lots of cast members, not necessarily people who were scheduled to be in a scene. And sometimes you just throw you into the background of the scene, have you walk through, whatever. So, we got called pretty much every day. So, we're sitting there and sometimes we didn't work. We'd come, we'd get suited up, we'd get in makeup and we'd sit around and then they'd send us home. So, we're there one day and Preston, as always, he's all buttoned up,

he's got his tie on, he's all, didn't matter the weather, he sitting on this uh director's chair out in front of the honey wagon reading a newspaper and at 7 30 in the morning you know we've all been there for an hour anyway and i go up to him and i said press i gotta ask you something i mean you're i i look i'm a schlepper from nowhere i understand mich. Michael brings me in. I sit around all day. I don't work. It's no big deal. But you're Robert fucking Preston. I don't understand this.

And he looks at me. He says, kid, they're paying me a lot of money. If they want to pay me to sit here and read the paper, I'm delighted to do it. And that was his whole, because he came up in the studio system. First of all, I was so enamored of him. I thought he was not my kind of actor in that I could never do this stuff. Spencer Tracy was my idol. And Gene Hackman.

When I worked with Hackman, I was the most nervous I've ever been because I so, he's who I wanted to be when I grew up. Because Tracy was my idol. And Hackman, in my mind, was the closest to Tracy I had ever seen where a guy would be so completely natural while also having this ability to embody so many different characters. And with the possible exception of Meryl Streep, I think those two guys are, disappear more into their roles than anyone else. When you work with Hackman on Under Fire, did you tell him that? Did you tell him?

What happened with Hackman was I met him at Roger Spatz with the director through a party in LA before we all went to Mexico to shoot the film. I had a dinner so we could all meet each other. And I introduced myself to Hackman. I was playing this PR guy for Anastasio Samosa and he was playing this reporter. And he just, he went, oh, hi oh hi you know and kind of didn't give me much attention oh by the way i want to jump back to um preston because this is where i really fell in love with preston um the first read through of um of um semi semi-tough we were we we did in the

locker room uh at texas stadium uh where thehorns play, which is where we shot the football stuff. And they'd cleared out the locker room, set up a big table, and we did the read-through there. And when we were all meeting and greeting, coming in, at one point, Preston came in and Michael Ritchie went over to say hello. And then he waved me over, I came over and he said to Preston, he said, so tell me, is this how you pictured Hooper? Which was the character's name. And Preston says to him, well, ever since you told me who was playing it, yeah.

Oh, that's sweet. And this was the most unbelievably generous thing. Very nice. I couldn't imagine anybody in so few words communicating more about, I know who he is, I like his work, he's my peer. This coming from this guy who had a 40-year career at that point. I mean, it was extraordinary. That's very generous. That's who he was.

So anyway, but Hackman, the first scene I had in the film was with Gene. And it was this crazy scene where this building is just blown up. And I'm in the press room. And I'm trying to flack everybody and get them not to tell bad stories about what just happened or maybe bury it. And so, I have this interaction with Hackman where I introduce myself and he says, yeah, okay, good to meet you. He's very busy, he's not interested in me. Blah, blah, blah. We do the rehearsal of the scene. And this is the key thing.

He had not said two words to me. He had not acknowledged my existence until we did this rehearsal. After we did the rehearsal, I went off to smoke a cigarette, whatever. And Hackman said, where are you going? I said, well, I'm just going to have a smoke. He said, well, come here. So, we walked off to the side. I lit the cigarette.

And he starts chatting me up. And I'm sitting there. I'm talking to him. I said, what is this about? The man has stiffed me totally at the party. And every time in the hotel I see him, and he hasn't said two words to me. What is this about? And I realized he didn't know my character.

He wanted to feel what it was like in this scene not to know me and have the reaction he had to me just so he would feel what that felt like. That's great. And I asked him about that later. I said, is that what happened? And he said, yeah. I mean, about that later. I said, is that what happened? He said, yeah. I mean, it was amazing. And I did tell him that he was who I wanted to be when I grew up.

And I told him that I thought, you know, you can't do too much of that or you look like an asshole. But I told him I thought he was, well, I think many people, even though, you know, they don't, he has just done, he's got such an amazing body of work and all of it. I mean, just go watch the two French Connection movies and just jump off a bridge. You know, I mean, how can you be an actor after you see that? You know, who does that? Who does that? Who's that good? You know, as I said, with the possible exception of Meryl, you know, who is a Martian. So, she doesn't count like the rest of us because she becomes anything she wants to become.

Right. And you got to work with her too. Yes. And Jack also, that was all very intimidating And Heartburn, we should tell our listeners. All very intimidating. In fact, I met- Jack Nicholson. I don't remember the director, but I met a director right after Heartburn had come out.

I met him for another feature. And he said, man, I just saw Heartburn. I got to tell you, kudos. You're in there with Jack Nicholson, Meryl Streep, Stockard Channing, and you totally fit in, not the least bit out of place, you know, kudos. And I said, yeah, that's my job, isn't it? I mean, and Stockard and I, of course, had quite by kismet ended up- In heartburn.

Heartburn, you know, she wasn't originally in the movie um originally it was um it was Diana Scarwood who played who was playing that role and Mandy Patinkin was playing Jack's part famously yeah there's an article about that in New York magazine right and and currently and and I was and I rehearsed with the two of them for the entire rehearsal period they started shooting and then mandy left the film and uh is carl bernstein pissed off at you too now richard oh that that it wasn't mandy no that that the film was made at all oh god i don't know who gives a shit i mean from everything i i know about carl from nora which granted is not necessarily of course

there's 200 million people in america 100 million of them are men they lose four socks a year conservatively i lose myself. That's 400 million missing socks. Missing forever. Where are they? Nobody ever sees them again. You'd think you'd run into one of them every once in a while. They're in heaven. You die, you go to heaven, and they give you this big box

with all your missing socks and mufflers in it and you get to spend eternity sorting it out and why is there only one shoe left in the road where is the other shoe why is the cold water in the bathroom always colder than the cold water in the kitchen so i'll just close the circle on that which is is that I got to be in Lucky Guy. It was a real personal delight to me because I never worked with Nara from Heartburn until, you know, she never had me in a film she directed. It just happens. But I got to be in Lucky Guy, which she wrote. So that was really sweet.

I was watching Heartburn with the wife the other night, and we were both, it's very good. And of course, you got to work with Mike Nichols, too. By the way, Meryl was pregnant when she was doing that, and she didn't know she was pregnant at the beginning, and she had terrible morning sickness, but she had just come back from doing Out of Africa, and she thought she had picked up a bug.

And they were treating her for an amoebic infection, which she didn't have. She was just pregnant. But when we shot the scene, you know, every scene in the movie, we're eating. And so Meryl had to do that in this almost constant state of nausea. No, every scene, we were eating. There wasn't a scene. That's why it was called Hardware. Yeah, there's the cookout and there's the backyard and the house.

Right, right, right. When we're all together, we're always eating. Good flick. And when we did the lobster eating scene, Meryl was schlepping all these lobsters and there was so much lobster smell in the air. And I think she puked twice during the scene. Oh, my God.

Yeah. Yeah. Good movie. And Nora Ephron left us too soon. Yes. She had a lot left to contribute. Gil, this is a story that you'll enjoy. And as we run out of time here, Richard, I just want you to tell Gilbert what Sally Struthers' method was that she taught you

if there was a take that you didn't care for. Okay. Just that or should I tell him? Yeah, just tell that because there's a couple- Should I tell the all in the family story that you didn't get the head? We don't have time for it, but I want to ask you another couple of quick things. Oh, okay. We'll probably run out of time. So when I went to shoot The All in the Family, I was really nervous. I'd been rehearsing for four days, but now we were going to shoot in front of an audience. And Sally said to me, look, if it isn't going the way you want it to go, just say fuck. And then they'll stop and we'll go back. And so, I came out and something, you know, I don't even remember what happened. I don't know

that anything happened. I just wanted to see if it would work. I went, fuck, oh, I'm sorry. And they stopped and they reset. We came back in. And the audience always loved it. And when I did half hour shows after that, very often I would blow it up so that the audience could release their tension and really get into enjoying the show because then they become part of the process. Right. Anyway. Gil, why don't you try that on a set, Gil? If you don't like a take. Yeah, with me, you have to stop me from saying fuck all the time. Richard, as we run out of time, quick, I'm going to give you your choice.

Either a quick story about The Thing, which a lot of our listeners recommended, if you have a quick one. We love those actors. We just lost Wilford Brimley, by the way, and we just lost ennio morricone by the way yeah uh or a quick something about poitier who you worked with in the terrific shoot to kill well i i will very quickly say about poitier one of the great gentlemen and also out of that same, even though he came to it a little later, that same mold that Preston was out of, just a consummate professional. And quick thing about the thing. Okay. You know this scene, there's a scene in the thing where Charlie Houck, who also has passed

away, where his chest opens up and Richard Dysart, who's also passed away, is giving him CPR and the chest opens up and then clamps down with teeth and cuts off Dysart's hands, his arms. And then Charlie's head kind of stretches, his neck stretches, and then falls off and then lands on the ground. And crab legs come out of his ears and his eyes and his nose. And the thing goes running out the door. So, after this happens, David Clanton, a wonderful actor who's this kind of stoner in the movie, has this line where he goes, you got to be fucking kidding me, okay, when this happens. So, we're shooting it and we're doing all the reaction shots and there's nothing there, you know, there's a guy pulling something

along the floor so we track it together with our eyes, but we're not seeing any of this stuff and you know, Clendenin says his line, it's a wide shot, blah, blah, blah. And then a carpenter goes, okay, great, we got that. We're in the next set. And I said, you're not going to shoot David? He said, what do you mean? I said, you're not going to shoot a close-up on David saying the line?

He said, no, no, no, no, I'm going to be on the head when that line hits. I said, you have to shoot David. The fuck is wrong with you, John. I'm going to be on the head when that line hits. I said, you have to shoot David. The fuck is wrong with you, John? This is going to be the biggest. It was the biggest laugh in the movie. He stayed there because I beat him up about it. And he shot David saying, you got to be fucking kidding me in this big close-up, which wasn't on the storyboard. So, John wasn't going to shoot it that way. And thank God he did, because it's a wonderful, wonderful moment. It's a great moment. Just to get the actor's

name right, to give him credit, the late Charles Hallahan. Hallahan. You said Charlie Hawk, who's a comedy writer who passed away. Yeah, he just passed away last year, Charlie Hawk. Yeah, I knew that. That's why I mixed them up. Sorry. Did you turn down E.T. to do the thing? No, I did not. Because that's bullshit that's out i mixed them up sorry did you turn down et to do the thing no i did not but that's that's bullshit that's out there huh no no no um here's here's the story i went in to meet um i went in to meet um spielberg uh when they were casting poltergeist uh Uh-huh. He had, I had just done a film called Fallen Angel, a TV movie where I played a pedophile. Mm-hmm.

And it was a very wonderful TV movie. I was very proud of that. Anyway, so Spielberg, they had sent over the casting people, Mike Fenton and Jane Feinberg had sent over, you used to send a three-quarter inch tape that was queued up to where you wanted them to start watching. So they sent over a scene with the queued up and Spielberg started watching it, went back to the beginning and watched the whole movie. He was knocked out by the movie.

Wow. So I came in, they handed me a script. They locked me in a room. I read the movie. Then I came out and I went into Spielberg's office. He said, you were so great in that movie, Richard. It was just wonderful. And we talked about that a little bit.

And then Jo Beth Williams comes in. She sits down. We're introduced. We sit there. We chat, the three of us, for a while. He thanks Jo Beth. She gets up and she leaves. And he looks at me. He said, yeah, this isn't going to work out. I'm sorry, but this isn't. I said, that's okay. He said, I'm doing another movie, though, and I think you'd be great for it. There's a wonderful part I think you'd be great for. And I said, what's the part? He said, it's the scientist. And I just think you'd be wonderful in this role.

I said, well, you know, I'm sitting on an offer. When I went to meet him for Poltergeist, I had the offer for the thing already. I said, I'm sitting on an offer for this movie, and I'm not sure how long we can hold him off. He said, oh, God, oh, my God, no, no. He said, I haven't even cast the kid yet, And until I do that, I can't cast anybody else. So, no, I'm really sorry. It'll be at least a month before I'll know. And I said, well, when are you going to shoot? And he was going to shoot still within the schedule. He was going to start within the schedule. I see. And I said, oh, God, I don't know what to do. He said, no, you should take this other film because I can't guarantee this. So, I did the thing. Then my friend, Peter Coyote, with whom I did Lyle Swan.

Oh, yeah, Time Rider. Right? Which was his first movie. Peter got the role. And one of the few times in my life when – I love Peter. I think he's a wonderful actor. I would have been better in that part. I mean, just because, not because of the acting, but because my physical presence was so much more intimidating than his.

Because you see him as a presence way before you actually see him. presence way before you actually see him, then when you actually see him, he turns into this really kind of caring guy, which is why Spielberg thought I would be really good in this, that I could be scary and also caring. So, anyway, but no, and to be honest, I mean, when Steven sent me the offer to do, when they sent me the offer, rather, to do The Amazing Stories, that was Stephen's show. Amazing Falworth. Yeah. Yeah. But it wasn't actually, I don't know that it was Stephen, though.

Of course, he approved it. But Peter Himes, who directed it, I'd done another film, Hanover Street. Right. And so I think Peter cast it. We got to get Peter Himes. Peter Himes is on Facebook. We got to get him on this podcast. Yeah, you should.

Made some great movies. And Peter can, you think I can talk. Peter can really. Well, I love Outland and I love Capricorn One. Oh, yeah. We got to get him on here. Yeah. And we'll recommend. Mom Capricorn One. Oh, yeah. We got to get them on here. Yeah. And we'll recommend.

Mom's on the Roof. Right. Right. Do you remember that? Yes. We'll recommend your new movie too, which. Yes. It's a really sweet before, during, after.

Yeah, it's very good. It's a really sweet labor of love. Everybody in it. after. It's really sweet. A labor of love. Everybody in it. We all did it because we love Finnerty and we love what

was in the film. Finnerty Steves. Yeah, she did a great job. Yeah, and she wrote it. She stars in it. She's the whole story. It's really, I think a little bit, unfortunately, biographical, but it was a lot of fun. I only worked for a day on it, but it was a lot of fun

and so many wonderful people that she got to be. You're getting a lot of those weirdo characters at this stage of your career. I noticed the character you played on Girls too. Oh, Girls? Oh, yeah. But what about, did you ever see, I don't know, you didn't mention this, but what's it called? Oh, God. Oh, God. Younger. Did you?

No, I haven't seen it, but I will. Oh, my God. I played the most insane character. It was so much fun in Younger. And it's a really wonderful, wonderful show. That was, I think it was on TV Land. Yeah, it was an original TV Land. Look for it.

Richard, you've got one of those careers, I say this sometimes to guests, but it's really true in your case. It's very hard to get your arms around this career. Your IMDb page is intimidating. Well, I wish it were more intimidating recently, but it is intimidating. 50 years yeah how how many how many actors get to work this consistently and do this much wonderful work for 50 years for five decades you're you're you know and as i'm very and i didn't start as a kid you know like richard thomas has got me beat and so a bunch of other people who started as kids.

But I didn't start as a kid. I was a fully formed 20 something. Gilbert's got you beat. He started his career at 15. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, Barry Gordon, who I followed into Screen Actors Guild presidency. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal podcast. But first, a word from our sponsor.

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Ah. Exploration awaits in Ottawa. From O to Ah. Plan your Ottawa itinerary at ottawatourism.ca. So find Richard in the new movie, Before, During and After, and Younger, which he just talked about. And also great work on Bored to Death and Transparent with our friend Jeffrey Tambor. And Orange is the New Black. And there's so much there.

And Who'll Stop the Rain. And if you can find Scavenger Hunt, which I can't find. Some of these movies are hard to find. I think somebody told me they did find Scavenger Hunt someplace. I don't remember where. Oh, but and Mr. Boogity, I just want to just put in a quick word

on Mr. Boogity. When Michael Eisner took over Disney, one of his goals was to revitalize the Disney movie, the Disney Sunday night movie. And one of the first films that we did was this thing called Mr. Boogity, which was a Halloween horror movie for kids. And it was a real Disney kind of movie. And I'm trying to remember, John Astin was in it. Oh, we love John Astin. He was here.

Yeah, and a bunch of other people. Anyway, so it was just, I mean, it was just silly fun. It was an hour long. And Michael loved the movie so much. It was his favorite movie of the first season that he commissioned a two-hour sequel called The Bride of Boogity. Which, you know, as very often happens, you know, just went a little further than it needed to. But it was still a great movie. And there's a whole demographic of mostly boys but also

girls who grew up watching this movie every Halloween on burned, they still have VHS players so they can still play their copy of Mr. Boogity. Mr. Boogity is now out, Disney finally released it, the two Mr. Boogity. Mr. Boogity is now out. Disney finally released it, the two Mr. Boogity movies. Eugene Levy too, is it? Yeah, Eugene was in The Bride of Boogity. Oh, okay. He took over the part that, well, the equivalent of the part that Aston played in the first one.

Right, right. And he was great. And Christy Swanson, who was the original Buffy the Vampire Slayer, she played my daughter in that. And David Faustino, who went on to fame and infamy later in his life. Yeah. Married with children. That's right.

I've fathered many, many, many people. You have done everything. And the next time we talk to you, we're just going to talk about all the great character actors that you worked with, too. Yeah. Not only people like Glennon and Wilford Brimley, but, you know, it's a very, very long list. Barnard Hughes and Anthony Zerbe and Donald Moffat and Richard Dysart and Charles Lane and LQ Jones and Harry Gardino. These are, you know, this show, this is the life's blood of American cinema. Listen, I did a film called Wild Horses, which was a Kenny Rogers movie.

I remember that picture. I was offered the movie and I said, what is it? And my agent said, it's a Kenny Rogers film. And I said, pass. I didn't know Kenny at the time. And if I had known him, I would not have said pass. But I said, wait, wait, who else is in it? And she said, Ben Johnson and Richard Farnsworth.

I said, I'll do it. She said, you don't want to read it? I said, do I work with them? And she said, yes. I said, I'll do it. She said, you don't want to read it? I said, do I work with them? And she said, yes. I said, I'll do it. Because the chance to work with those two guys. Of course. And after the first day shoot where I did my entry scene,

which is with the two of them, I'm out there like acting my brains out and the two of them are just standing there talking to me like they were talking to me five minutes earlier. There was not a whit of difference, you know. And we had a party that night. It was the end of the first week on the Stude Ranch in Wyoming. And I went up to Dick Lowry, the director, on the way to the party. And I said, what the fuck is that about, man? You know, the way to the party. And I said, what the fuck is that about, man? You know, I'm out there, I'm working my ass off and these two guys are just standing there talking and they're so much more interesting than I could ever hope to be. And he looks at me and he says, yeah, but that's

all they can do. And I just, I thought that was so great, though I don't believe it. It is true that when there are certain things that only time makes happen and you do become, you know, quirks and weirdness and that stuff does grow. I mean, even if you start off weird like I did, like Gilbert did, you become more, you know, you become like Nicholson was interesting and weird and then he was weirder and weirder. I mean, some of it is maybe all the different people you play, even though some of them have to be outrageous or very odd or whatever, they're basically all coming out of you. And you can trust that, you know. And, you know, it's not true that Ben Johnson was always the same and it's not true that Richard, well, Richard was more or less always the same.

But Ben Johnson was, he was a great actor. And he taught me how to throw a rope. That's a cool thing. The world champion cowboy taught me how to throw a rope. That's a cool thing. The world champion cowboy taught me how to throw a rope. Big fan of those guys. Yeah, yeah. And Farnsworth and the Gray Fox, another movie people should find. All right, Gil.

Okay, this has been Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast with my co-host, Frank Santopadre. And we've been talking to the fine actor Richard Masser. Thank you, Richard. Thank you, Richard. I want to thank A.J. Fuhrman, too. Oh, yes. For setting this up.

We tried to do this for weeks, and we finally made it happen. No, I'm so glad you guys stayed with me. I know I couldn't do some of the dates and then you couldn't do it. So I'm really, I'm very happy that we got to do this. I'm a big fan of yours, Gilbert, also. And I'm now a big fan of Frank's as well. You're so sweet. And John, you were both great to do this with. Thank you. And anytime, if you want anything else from me, you know how to reach me, okay? You'll hear from us. And thank you for helping so many people in the industry. Well, I'm not in SAG, I'm in the WGA, but as a pro-union man and a member of this industry, thank you for what you've done.

Well, thank you.