Girls Gone Canon Cast - ASOIAF Episode 19 - AGOT Sansa Overview/I

Episode Date: September 21, 2018

Thrust into a magical world where the line between truths and lies blurs more often than not, Sansa Stark finds herself battling for survival, hidden beneath a veil of her courtesy. intro by Anton Langhage Eliana's twitter: https://twitter.com/arhythmetric Eliana's reddit account: https://www.reddit.com/user/glass_table_girl Eliana's blog: https://themanyfacedblog.wordpress.com/  Chloe's twitter: https://twitter.com/liesandarbor

Hello and welcome to Girls Gone Canon Episode 19, Sansa Stark Introduction and Sansa 1, A Game of Thrones. I am one of your hosts. My name is Chloe. You can find me on the internet as at Liza and Arbor on Twitter and also on Tumblr as Liza and Arbor dot Tumblr dot com. on Twitter, and also on Tumblr as liesinarbor.tumblr.com. And I'm another one of your hosts, Eliana, also known as GlassTableGirl on the Song of Ice and Fire subreddit and on the Mesa Monthly Podcast. We did it! We're here!

We're at a multi-bug POV! We're really excited, and it's not just because it's Sansa Stark, but are you guys ready for 12 hours of pure unadulterated sansa stark in one night i'm just kidding it's not a 12-hour episode we have to sleep someday someday we're so excited to be doing sansa stark don't take that out of context we're not doing sansa stark uh that's weird just wanted to make sure we know it's not happening uh i am excited sansa is one of my favorite characters oh same you and i have both written extensively on sansa so this is a very exciting pov for us to both be at and also

it seems as though a lot of listeners are very excited based on some of the feedback we got on Twitter. Yeah, these are going to be extensive. I'm really excited. I think Eliana has a bunch of great insights to offer. We'll be linking some of our other content from our blogs also into our descriptions of these episodes as we go as they apply. So be sure to check those out. our descriptions of these episodes as we go as they apply so be sure to check those out and eliana why don't you tell the kids at home what we what we also did this week well kids at home this is a great week if you are one of our patrons because you get not one you get two

two girls gone canon episodes so that's like four girls gone canon as there are two of us because we released our arianne winds of winter episode for patrons and it is now up on our patreon for anyone who has pledged five dollars a month or more check it out it's out there it is raunchy because it's that content yeah it's four girls two cannons literally four girls on two cannons it's if you guys have an extra five dollars rattling around your wallet rattling around your pocket space if you just feel the need to throw it at us we'll give you some special bonus content. We have some other really cool different content options on the website. Some patrons in

near future will be getting stickers. The Lost deserve better stickers from us. It's a hoot. It's a whole thing. We do a thing. So that's patreon.com slash girlsgonecanon. And of course, even if you don't contribute, we are still so grateful that you are with us on this journey. And of course, even if you don't contribute, we are still so grateful that you are

with us on this journey. And we're very excited to launch into Sansa Stark. With that, we did get some interesting notes this week from some of our listeners. Specifically on Eliana's favorite, we did get some iTunes reviews. And we got one from Jon Snow Buddy that I think eliana would love to read yeah even if you don't have five dollars to throw at us throw at us your nice words throw at us your five stars your five star ratings on itunes like john snow buddy who started this comment with i love my two moms oh my god i told my boyfriend about this and he's just been yelling, I love my two moms, like throughout the apartment this week. So you too could be a part of my everyday life. John Snow Buddy says of his two moms, these are my friends, but they don't know they're my friends.

But we are friends because this podcast makes me feel good, you know. Is this Jason Mendoza? Maybe. I relate to Jason mendoza maybe i relate to jason same uh well you are our friend now and our child so we are your mother nobody oh somebody to me somebody is not too tall for me oh my god we did get another uh review which is a couple of swell gals geeking out about a great series from dig lester hard on kachud okay this podcast combines delightful analysis and light-hearted commentary on a thematically dense text and keeps me interested in the long night before the winds of winter is released good stuff indeed we are swell hey thanks i agree i agree thank you so much to gloucester our donkey chug

so of course that launches us right into the woman of the hour the young woman of the hour i should say sansa stark so sansa stark is 11 at the start of a game of thrones when we open the book she is the eldest daughter of house stark and she physically takes after her mother much like the majority of catelyn and eddard's children and that means that she has the high cheekbones and long auburn tully hair as well as blue eyes contrasted with the stark look of dark hair and gray eyes she believes in both her mother's gods and her father's her best friend is jane pool who is the steward van pool's daughter so van pool of course serves how stark and more specifically as serves, he is a servant.

He's an unarmed servant. He does not take up arms, according to Bran, during the Harvest Feast. He kept charge of the household. He likely directed the other servants. He was definitely a higher-up servant, and of course, in Winterfell, he was treated more like a member of Eddard's court than a servant. Had he been in the South, he wouldn't have been respected like he was by Eddard Stark. As we know, Eddard Stark definitely respected all the people that worked with and for him. Cersei probably would have just fed him to rats or something. Given him to Qyburn. But most importantly, Sansa stark loves lemon cakes

which i would just like to say that is a defining trait of sansa stark and it's very important because so do i because they're delicious i'm also fond of lemon bars with powdered sugar sprinkled all over them they're like really good i just really love powdered sugar like give me some french toast with like copious amounts of melted butter and brown or brown and powdered sugar like that's that's my shit yeah i mean i'm not gonna act like i didn't just pour powdered sugar down my throat as a child because i did and it's great i'm not sure if they had powdered sugar, but maybe. And yes, lemon cakes are delicious. I mean, lemon is like one of the top tier flavors, but Sansa Stark is the first character that really gets to deal with a betrothal that we see firsthand in A Song of Ice and Fire. And we think it's really appropriate to cover some of the betrothals that we see firsthand in A Song of Ice and Fire. And we think it's really appropriate to cover

some of the betrothals that we see in the books. So of course, one of the more famed betrothals of the story is Lyanna Stark and Robert Baratheon. Lyanna was betrothed at age 13 to Robert. Robert would have been about 17 at the time of betrothal. Of course, if you know the tragic story of Lyanna Stark, she died at age 16, barely a child woman. And then we have someone who supposedly looks like Lyanna, but probably doesn't really. We have Margaery and Renly. They didn't really have a

long betrothal or any betrothal probably at all. Margaery was 14 when she and Renly were wed, and Renly was 20. Catelyn and Brandon were engaged. Catelyn totally and Brandon stark. Catelyn was betrothed to Brandon at the age of 12, and Brandon was around 14 or 15 at the time but they weren't actually to be married until Catelyn was at least 18 when the date of their wedding was announced. And then that brings us to Sansa and Joffrey. When King Robert comes up to Winterfell he's Sansa is 11 and Joffrey is 13. Now, immediately Ned is like, oh, but they're so young.

They're too young to be betrothed. And Ned isn't wrong to worry about Sansa being engaged, especially with what happened to his sister, Lyanna. And he would actually be right about them being too young if they were getting married and they are not yet and we can see that like with catlin a typical peacetime marriage does occur a lot later into the betrothal which is of course also safer for childbirth but when war comes around when times are tough houses suddenly feel the need and pressure to make alliances and so marjorie is married at 14 just as liza while liza is suddenly married off at the same time as catlin to seal that alliance between

houses erin and tully while catlin sealing that alliance between tully and stark liza 16 which is a little more normal age, but... Of course, sometimes they have very political reasons, as we see with Marjorie, and as well as we might see there with Lyanna Stark, who was married to Robert to really secure that alliance. Something that's really important about Sansa's age in the beginning of this book is in how we frame this character in our mind, and it often gets overlooked, is that an 11-year-old, even in medieval societies, is 11 years old. Just because it's set in the past or set in a more feudal society doesn't exactly mean that Sansa ages up.

Around puberty, ages 11 to 13, children begin to develop a lot more of their social functionality and they begin to develop and experience egocentrism there are two aspects of egocentrism there's personal fable which if you've ever spent time with a child you'll know this one they believe they're alone and that they've experienced these feelings that no one else could possibly ever understand them right they get a little dramatic just like eliana okay oh and i was i was gonna talk about listening to lincoln park a lot at the age of 11 i understand my chemical romance over here uh and bright eyes so the other bit of egocentrism that they begin to develop is imaginary audience, which basically is where they believe people are paying far more attention to them than actually are.

Right. They devote that energy into the way they speak, the way they dress and the way they act. These are all things, especially in this chapter, we see Sansa take part in. They're also impacted by identity and role confusion, right? They begin to become the human they're going to be forever, or so they're told as an adult. That's like a, so you think you're going to keep changing. But there's also this idea of gray matter, right? Affecting your brain and adolescence, where it's a comet to your frontal cortex. You can't, you don't know how to think, right? Like everything is just very cloudy. You're a kid and your puberty is happening and you got boobies. Now, I don't know.

It's a lot. It's a lot. Children have it really hard. They're developing. So Sansa's story framed in that kind of point, it makes you kind of think this is when kids begin to experience more complex friendships for the first time, right? They're not sitting around doodling on the merry go round eating wood chips this is like you're part of established social hierarchies or creating your own and sansa is pushed right into the thick of it like she's just jammed right in there they

just like sent her in to the center of the lion's den i absolutely agree with all of this and just want to stress more that like like, I frequently see people talk about how, you know, when they were talking about Sansa, they say that children in Westeros grow up faster because of their society and the expectations that are placed on them. We see this, of course, with Ra being thrust into this kingship. and to that I would say that while society might expect them to do more things earlier and might put different kinds of responsibilities on them earlier yes it's a harder and harsher world but I that doesn't change any of the things that you said happened it doesn't change how human psychology works that's the science behind human development and I've seen people say that oh adolescence and being a teenager was insane back then people had to mature faster no people were asked more of them earlier

but that doesn't mean that suddenly your brain is going to develop faster and better like the concept of adolescence sure was only discovered later but it still existed same as just because people thought that the sun came up on a chariot like the sun still went like the earth still went around the sun you know the sun wasn't actually brought up by a chariot because people fucking believed it so and along with that i would question how often these people encounter young people because i've worked with children and teenagers who arguably grew up in much harder circumstances than sansa and some of the young people in a song of ice and fire like i

taught street children and homeless children in manila and the philippines and like they're just kids man growing up homeless in a third world country is really hard there's a lot of things that you have to know and do but they're at the end of the day they're still kids they act like kids and i think that if you aren't coming to a song of ice and fire with the understanding that these are kids being thrust into a world of responsibility you're missing out on a lot of what george is trying to say of some of the pitfalls of planetos yeah in fact you're doing yourself a disservice by coming to the table that kind of mentality solely because there's so much depth you can really grasp from these chapters as we learn from other characters in the story like stannis like these are not black and white characters right and sansa as we're going to get into in a bit, isn't just a black and white character either. In feudal societies, children's expectations are a lot different,

right, than what you would expect in your everyday if you live here in America or if you live in the UK. It's a lot different today in 2018 than it would have been in this made-up world, because it's a fantasy story, by the way, if you didn't know uh it's made up doesn't really exist no it's fillery and uh so these noble families sansa is expected to marry the best suitor for her right more than likely chosen by her father and she's supposed to care for the household and bear and raise children. So that's what's expected of Sansa as a highborn lady in a noble family in a feudal society. Boys in this kind of society are generally sent to foster by the age of seven, and girls are sent off to learn stewardship skills from another family as well. Children who are

actually below the nobility, their only hope to learn how to read and write and gain any semblance of skills were to learn from like a priest of the faith, which is actually something we will see come up in Elaine chapters eventually, that kind of ideology that George pulls from. In agrarian systems, boys and girls are needed to get that work done, right? Agriculturally, in the household, and we're in a noble family, they aren't really pressed to do that as much. This is more from the lower class. Sansa would have had to learn to read, to write, to dance, and to play music, which we do learn that she loves music and poetry and dancing and the high harp and reading.

Sansa's very the romantic idea of a girl in a highborn, you know, a highborn maiden. That's the trope of Sansa. And you can see how George really wanted to explore the story from that perspective of a highborn maiden raised with all these sorts of expectations of Westeros, because it stands in contrast to a lot of the other POVs that we get such as Arya's who sort of fits a little more of that spunky tomboyish like trope that you'll see in some stories and I want to talk a little bit now about the framing of sansa's story and how it's evolved and some of where it seemed like george was going when he talked about it in that

1993 letter so to start off i'm going to start with where the story how the story that we get actually is and i want to point to this comment from a reddit user called after the horse who coincidentally has a name that is very in line with the themes of this podcast this comment won the reddit best ofs in 2016 and after the horse says i think martin initially primes you to hate sansa i actually feel like it's not one of his better writing decisions since he never really tries to blow the stereotype of the tomboy versus girly girl out of the water. He just sort of moves the characters in directions where they have to stop bouncing off of each other. Abandoning a trite trope you've used in earnest isn't the same as playing with it. When Sansa and Arya are together, the reader will often get information that neither girl has access to.

Both girls will make a decision, based largely on ignorance and impulse, and Arya's will turn out to be more reasonable given what the reader knows. So, for instance, before we see Cersei, we hear Ned and Kat talk about what a horrible person she is. Then Arya and Sansa see her, and in a few seconds decide Cersei's useless, and Circe's awesome, respectively. Sansa comes off looking really dumb, even though she and Arya were basically jumping equally far without looking. Or the wheelhouse. We hear everyone complaining about how impractical it is

and are basically primed to associate it with selfish luxury. The girls aren't. Sansa thinks it's stylish. Arya thinks it's dull. After they've been traveling a while and the reader's gotten plenty of descriptions of the landscape, Sansa complains that the landscape is dull. Arya quickly chimes in with a list of interesting things about it, so Sansa looks unobservant by comparison. That sort of thing tends to happen when they're around each other,

and it feels like a less than stellar decision on Martin's part. Yeah, there's a ton there. It's definitely what we know versus what they know. And to all that, I think Sansa's empathy does shine through in general in her arc, and it's something that doesn't get highlighted enough for how much it exists. We'll see her throughout this story bring someone who should be an enemy to their knees by offering them a hand, you know, helping them up when they're in pain. We'll see her take pity on gross old lecherous men for four books, right? I mean, that's pretty much part of her arc. And that's not to say Arya is not empathetic. Arya is also

an equally empathetic character, especially when you get into her Clash and Storm chapters in A Clash of Kings with Weasel, for example. I mean, Arya is entirely an empathetic character as well, but these girls are just different girls. I wouldn't say, I don't know, I don't feel like it's framed poorly by Martin. I think that it is definitely framed differently. Something I'll draw a lot more on, and I have drawn on before as we've spoken here, as we move through these

chapters, Cersei is framed so sympathetically in Sansa's chapters and we get glimpses of it through Eddard's chapters as well, right? Ned's chapters, we get a few glimpses of that too. She's the beautiful golden queen who's married to the sad, washed up, alcoholic, womanizing sod, right? Sansa only sees that side of Cersei, and Cersei easily manipulates her duly throughout A Game of Thrones, which appeals to that maternal, soft, and romantic side of Sansa. And I do think that we're seeing a lot of echoes of that originally drafted role from George's 1993 letter outline of this story, right? When it was originally supposed to be this trilogy. Each of the contending families will learn it has a member of dubious loyalty in its midst. Sansa Stark, wed to Joffrey Baratheon, will bear him a son, the heir to the throne, and

when the crunch comes, she will choose her husband and child over her parents and siblings, a choice she will later bitterly rue. Tyrion Lannister, meanwhile, will befriend both Sansa and her sister Arya while growing more and more disenchanted with his own family. I'm really glad George didn't take that plot to its extreme, to its full, and make her that bitter, wounded character. I think that he's definitely given her plot a chance to breathe and a chance at regaining agency it's a much better route to travel for her and i think it's more rewarding so for me when i take these two things together where george was originally going with her in

that 1993 letter plus the way that sansa's character is initially introduced in A Game of Thrones, it does make me think that George did, as after the horse, say lean a little too hard into making Sansa seem stupid in comparison to Arya with the information that we're given, especially because a lot of fantasy for a while, which is, of course, what George is responding to and is why I think Clash takes sansa's character in a different direction than we initially see here you know it's that framing of that feminine coded versus

masculine coded behavior and you're going to see people say that oh but aria is also a girl and so is brienne and i don't dislike them but of course Arya's interests are very much more, they're more, as I said, masculine-coded. She's into fighting, and she's into like, oh, Robert's rebellion and the war, and I think that these are great. Like, I love Arya and I love Sansa a lot. Some people say I'm more like Arya, I guess, as a person. Some people say I'm more like Arya, I guess, as a person.

But it does initially frame Sansa and her interests as a little frivolous. It doesn't deconstruct it explicitly in that first chapter. As you said, Chloe, Sansa exemplifies a lot of empathy towards different characters in this first book. a lot of empathy towards different characters in this first book but i think we don't really get that super explicitly from the outset and you know the ways that courtesy and not just being nice to people we're going to dig into this a little more later but actual courtly behaviors are necessary for noble survival in the story we can see how these help Sansa later on but it does seem a little bit like George was initially setting up Sansa to be more quote-unquote evil and for that receive a little bit of punishment and it's funny because you know we're both sitting here like well in defense of this feminine behavior and it's like man I just think it's a normal behavior I think there's

different classes in Westeros there's different people in different ways of survival. And I mean, you look at all these queens of past and you look at Sansa wants to be one of these queens from the song. You know, she embodies that. She thinks, you know, they're the very the very dignity of courtesy and they're beautiful and wonderful and songs are sung about them. And it's not bad behavior to have but it is interesting how the book is framed that we immediately think that's not the best behavior like what's wrong with that what's wrong with wanting to be a good courteous queen what's wrong with wanting to be good queen ally or be queen be nary's in the songs or you know like what's wrong

with all those you know nothing's wrong with it it's just we as a society think there's something wrong with it and there's not no i definitely agree with that and i think that comes out a lot more in clash especially you know with the stuff during the battle of the black water where sansa thinks that she would make the people love her as opposed to fear her i just and i agree that we shouldn't think that the feminine things are negative i just think that george was unintentionally leaning into some of these tropes maybe in this first chapter because it is going along with these ideas it's portraying some of the things as petty and i think that they're completely understandable for someone at that age having you know been through that age and i'm gonna argue that some of these experiences are not just experiences that

pre-teen girls go through but i do think whether or not it's intentional there is the fact of the matter is that A Song of Ice and Fire isn't in a vacuum, right? All literature exists within our cultural context, and it is building off of that. Look at the only other female characters we're knowing, right?

You have Catelyn, you have Cersei. Those two don't exactly come off as the most sympathetic in their first handful of appearances, right? Catelyn is urging Ned that he has to go to King's Landing and she's the outsider. Cersei is obviously, you know, as we get to know, kind of a manipulative bitch. I mean, Daenerys is across the sea, so she's not really into this. She's very sympathetic as kind of Sansa's character becomes in the next book.

But we don't have the best to go off of as far as female role models. So the females that are most like Sansa that we've already seen have left a sour taste in your mouth already. You know, you're not sure what to think of them. Cersei's up in the air. Catelyn's up in the air. You don't have kind of a sure thing. So it's kind of a clash of kings is a big forking out role where it's like Sansa chooses you know I want to be a good queen like you said

Sansa's choosing that and so a game of thrones is kind of that you know muddy in the water like she's just a girl in this family that we're given to as protagonists they are the protagonists of the story we're obviously shown that in a game of thrones i mean they make up 80 of the books so we're shown that uh but you know you're kind of wondering what's going on with the sansa character and i think that a lot of people maybe just kind of put their bets on a clash of kings but from the beginning you can see a lot of her empathy and a lot of her caring, even from here. Yeah, yeah, I agree. I just, like I said, I just think that George, there are, you can see where he wants to go, especially as it builds in later books. But his gardening is totally apparent here.

Yeah, it's just not as smooth or perfect as it will be later on and I'm not going to call it out every time it happens but you can see a lot of use of italics randomly throughout this chapter that he uses much more sparingly in later books yeah and that has a lot to do which we're about to get into uh sansa's just 11 year oldness you know it's funny because even reading this chapter i can hear the snotty snide like you know i'm 11 and i'm gonna be a queen i am betrothed to the prince and you should be a lady oh yeah you know like i could just hear it in my head just i mean I mean, I remember, as we'll get into, being a kid, being an idiot, right? And, like, being so self-absorbed with that whole entire idea of, like, the identity versus, like, finding that, you know,

you don't, you're a kid, you don't know. Now I look back and I'm like, oh, you're so young, and I'm so glad you're dead now, you know? I'm so glad. Yeah. I was insufferable. I was insufferable i was i mean look at look at here's how we're gonna compare it before we move on hermione granger in the very first harry potter book and movie okay hermione granger versus hermione granger in the seventh book that's

all i'm saying okay so just let's move along all right so of course we're gonna move on to our lightning round of what we missed and in our lightning round we're gonna be doing mostly stark povs for a game of thrones between sansa chapters and we'll probably branch out as sansa interacts into other characters and as other characters plots intersect with her own but a game of thrones is the stark central book so as we'll see next episode we do not get a point of view at house dairy from sansa after sansa one which if you've been following this book it is a reread that is the famed bit of time with lady being killed being sadly put down by ned and of course the aftermath of this episode and namaria and aria and oh god it's real sad so it's kind of nice we don't get that chapter

but we don't actually get into sansa's chapters until 15 chapters into the book right like we aren't even close to her head so it was meant to be ambiguous i mean george left that straight open just like the 1993 outline you don't know what this girl is thinking and if you want to know about that dairy aftermath we did an episode on that now uh that brings us to brand one where Bran witnesses the North's justice for the first time, as he, Robb, and Jon Snow find direwolves on their journey back home to Winterfell. In Catelyn I, Catelyn delivers the news of Jon Arryn's death to her husband, and she informs him the King and his company are heading north toward him.

And she informs him the king and his company are heading north toward him. Eddard I. King Robert and Lord Eddard visit Ghosts in the Crypts. And Robert extends an offer to Ned. Come south, be my hand, and bury your daughter to my son. Wow, that's a chapter we haven't talked about in a minute, right? Yeah, that's where it started. No, it's where we started. Oh, in John 1. yeah that's where we started oh in john uh in john one john snow sulks in the back of the

feast at winterfell and after seeing his uncle benjen he meets tyrian lannister an interesting character caitlin too caitlin is convinced that ned must go south at a letter from her sister, advising them that the Lannisters killed Jon Arryn. In Arya's first chapter, societal norms are not precisely what Arya wishes to live up to, right? She skips out on needlework with Septa Mordain and Sansa to watch her brothers and the princes play at swords in the yard. Bran too. Instead of heeding his mother's warnings, Bran returns to his favorite hobby, climbing the walls of Winterfell. He comes across Jaime and Cersei, making love.

He finds himself falling, but he will fly. Oh, got him. Got him. but he will fly oh got him got him in john 2 john makes his way around winterfell saying his very last goodbyes before he becomes a man of the night's watch he first speaks to bran and then rob and he finally gives aria a needle of her very own edward 2. King Robert fears a threat in the east, and Ned is forced to remember the sack of King's Landing and the murder of children. In Catelyn 3, catatonic from her son going into a coma, an assassin is sent to take Bran's life. Catelyn finds herself finally jarred awake. Bran's direwolf comes to her aid and Catelyn

is convinced that Bran saw something he shouldn't have. So that finally brings us to Sansa Stark 1. Everything is finally happening for Sansa. Magic is in the air. She's escaping these gray walls and snowy plains. Family members that she has nothing in common with for a new world a better world for the first time in forever from frozen is playing in the background and even better one with queens and kings and princesses and princess even one she might get to marry everything is wonderful and beautiful which means it's the perfect time for something to go wrong. In Sansa Stark 1, we begin with Septa Mordain telling Sansa that her father went off to hunt with the king.

Everything in Sansa's chapters are of course framed like a song or a story. We know from Eddard's chapters he probably didn't love going off on this hunt, right? But it's framed in Sansa's mind as magical. The king sent him to hunt a wild oryx. Sansa feeds Lady bacon at the table, and Septa Mordain disapproves while she snacks on honey and bread. Septa Mordain has tutored Sansa in the ways of being a noble lady for many years now, septimordain has tutored zanza in the ways of being a noble lady for many years now like probably five to six at least septimordain says that a noble lady shouldn't feed her dog at the table i say she's a noble lady she can do whatever the fuck she wants zanza responds yeah that lady isn't a dog she's a dire wolf touche got him letting lady look at her fingers septimordane vows that sanza is as willful as aria when she's

with her wolf the wolf blood and then septimordane asks where aria is sanza says aria's not hungry but she thinks on how aria probably went down to the kitchens to mingle with the cooks earlier on of course something we're going to cover when we get to aria is that sanso was actually kind of being the cool big sister here like she totally oh yeah she she covers for aria in the first aria chapter she even covers for her saying well aria had to go bye like yeah absolutely she's just like oh i don't know she's she's not throwing aria under the wagon so to speak here she's kind of just going okay Aria well I'm gonna try to lie I guess for you damn girl like you should have told me whatever it's like a big sister we're gonna talk about this a lot there's a lot of big sister

little sister dynamics and I have seen that a couple of my best friends I know some people that have sisters. Your sister. One of my childhood best friends, like from age three, had a little sister. So and it was like similar age gap-ish and just very much so this. I grew up seeing it. You know, I get it. I get it. Septimordain asks Sansa to remind Arya to dress nicely, maybe wear her gray velvet.

And they're invited to ride in the royal wheelhouse with the queen and the princess marcella so of course sansa sansa has been planning her outfit for like a week or two right like let's be real she's been planning the second they got on that she was like i need to know she brushed her hair for hours she donned her prettiest blue silks and just a fashion hour it silk is seen as a very luxurious fabric right very expensive fabric still is still is blue symbolizes loyalty and trust and confidence this chapter is a chapter that just like arianne's chapters it truly matters what sanza chooses to wear because she chose it very specifically. This is her best dress, right? This is blue dyed silk, which would have had to be traded in from the east and then shipped up to White Harbor and then it would make it to Winterfell to Sansa. This is like a Christmas

dress, right, that your parent bought for you, that Catelyn got shipped in for her. Sansa was careful to choose this outfit. In fact, like, blue silk is a very expensive idea in general. It would have to be international cargoed into Winterfell, okay? That's some money. Like, it bothers me when people put Lyanna Stark in blue fabrics in a lot of their fan art because there's no way. She was more likely to wear a gray or brown dress often because it was easily accessible to Winterfell.

Everything there, they wear grays and very drab colors. to wear a gray or brown dress often because it was easily accessible to Winterfell. Everything there, they wear grays and very drab colors. Blue is a harder dye and more expensive dye to get. It would have had to be from Easteros. Yeah, and you can even see this in the Game of Thrones show where Michelle Clapton does, as usual, an amazing job. Don't even get me started. She does an amazing job. Wait, wait, wait. Did you say Emmy Award winner Michelle Clapton? Oh, I did not.

That's who we're talking about. Emmy-mazing. So there's a huge group for Game of Thrones costuming on Facebook. If you're in the mood for that, Game of Thrones costuming on Facebook. Look it up up but she has actually helped us in there with questions that we ask like for costumes we will ask like I wonder how this was this was done and she will log in sometimes and comment there and be like I did this I can't wait to see what you guys come up with it's so inspiring

and it's really cool to have a costume designer so involved with fans. You know what, while we're here, we're going to talk about one of the first costume moments of Sansa in the show. Just because I love the way that Michelle Clapton talks about this. And as you said, Sansa is more likely to be wearing gray or brown. And she is in this scene in Winterfell when she first meets Cersei. You know this scene. I've seen, you know this scene. Where Cersei asks her, like, have you flowered yet? yet and sansa is just like her face is very taken aback and aghast and the reason why is as michelle clapton points out is that in the north slash winterfell the conception that michelle clapton had is that northern girls would wear knots around

their neck to show their youth it's supposed to be like a sort of playful aspect to their clothing and that shows that they are still a child and not yet flowered and so that's part of why sansa's taking him actually like her clothing is showing that she is not yet flowered so also a great dress so there's a lot of symbolism in these dresses and sansa of all characters is a character that you really need to watch what she's wearing because she's a character that cares about what she's wearing and turns out what she's wearing as we're going to see as the story goes on signifies very important moments in the actual plot and story. Anyway,

riding with the queen, it's like a super big deal, and her betrothed Joffrey might even be there. Sansa did not really know Joffrey yet, but she was already in love with him. He was all she ever dreamt her prince should be, tall and handsome

and strong, with hair like gold. She treasured every chance to spend time with him, few as they were. The only thing that scared her about today was Arya. And, okay, I just want to say, is this not a perfect picture of being young and having a crush on someone at that age? Like, it's so cringey. But guess what? Being that age was fucking cringy you didn't know people

you're like oh i'm in love i think that they're so cute and i just want to look at them all the time and like be into them and you didn't know anything you like me we all just needed stronger deodorant you like looked forward to the one day you were going to see them. Like I remember when I was 14 and my first real like one on one date with a boy and like we ended up kissing. Finally, we made out during Superman Returns and I missed my ride home. Right. Thanks. It was a good movie, too. Like when I watched it a couple of years later, I was like, wow, this was actually a really good movie. But I missed my ride home from the theater because I was too busy kissing this boy right so then I had to walk like a mile

and a half home and my parents grounded me I was in so much trouble and like it was my first boyfriend and I was just like head over heels like it was a big deal okay so I get it and this one's a prince okay that's like another big deal it. And this one's a prince, okay? That's like another big deal. Like, yeah. And this one's a prince. Like he's actually a prince. Like when you're that age and you see like our really cute boy, you're like, you imagine yourself. You're like, oh, he looks like a prince.

No, this one actually is a prince, okay? So that just adds to his allure sanza does not think that aria is going to behave or dress properly even though she keeps trying right she's like oh this girl is not gonna do what i want her to do she's ruining my life i hate my little sister oh my god she asks to be excused and lady follows at her heels as she leaves. She stands outside and absorbs the scenery as she gets back to camp. There are wooden wheels shouting curses. Men are surrounding her

and they're breaking down all these pavilions and tents. You can almost see this in your mind when you close your eyes. Silk pavilions and tents and they're about to move along to their next stop on the King's Road. The inn they're at is the biggest she's ever seen, in winterfell three-story and palestone but it held less than a third of king robert's party which is now well over 400 people so sans has never seen more than 400 people

gathered in a place is basically what that says just to put it into perspective that winterfell is like the very upper middle class, right? Like they're like, we're not quite in the 1%, but we're like the 2 or 3 or 4. 400 people is not that many people. It's cute. Not a lot of people, girl. You're about to go to the capital. I think that's a great line that really says like, we're not in Kansas anymore.

Exactly. Sansa then heads to the banks of the trident where she finally finds aria aria is brushing caked mud out of namaria's fur adorable it's so okay this seems so cute aria is wearing riding leathers that she has worn for the last two days do not judge sansa tells aria that she needs to change because they're going to go ride in the Queen's wheelhouse and Arya says she's not going. Arya says she's going to go ride with her friend Micah to look for rubies

in the river. Also, can I just ask how come Arya's just allowed to be like, no, I'm not doing that. My parents would be like, you're going. Arya gets a lot of that, I noticed. But anyways, we'll get there. My parents would have told, you're going. Arya gets a lot of that, I noticed. But anyways, we'll get there. My parents would have told me I was going.

Yeah, my parents would have been like, you're going to this fucking picnic and you're going to behave. I'm like, oh my god. Surprisingly, Sansa doesn't actually know what Arya is talking about. And Arya, of course, tells her, Rhaegar's rubies. This is where King Robert killed Rhaegar. Which, of course course has to be really pleasing as a younger sister right yeah which a this is an example of George weaving in that exposition of his world into whatever is happening but also I just think it's kind of

interesting that they frame this as something that Sansa doesn't know because it's part of the histories this is part of like sansa's like actual education and i would assume that sansa would know about it because a first of all part of her education b don't you try to know everything about your crush just to feel closer to them but i suppose that this is something that george is like drawing a distinction between like i don't know the songs and the, which we see a little in Arianne's storyline, as we've discussed. But the difficulties set in Westeros, a lot of the songs secretly are the histories, so I feel like she should know this. I don't know. Yeah, it's a little out of character for Sansa.

I do think maybe we are seeing the effect of Ned not letting them know as much about the rebellion as happened. And also I think it's a little bit to show she's kind of ditzy and airheaded right now. She's all into Joffrey, right? She is all about that golden prince. She's not thinking about

who died on the Trident and that this is where the rubies are, which again seems out of character. But I guess we can come up with a couple of excuses for it sure i just imagine this is something that you would have already figured out like you're like oh i gotta at that age imagine you were an 11 or 12 year old into this world this is something that you figured out because you scrolled all the way to the first picture on someone's instagram and therefore know everything about their life already this is something this is something you know because you've like the children don't use facebook it really is instagram when i say that now i was about to be like this is facebook stalking yeah we know it as facebook stalking

who knows what the children are up to nowadays anyway sansa can't believe that aria would pass up an opportunity to dine with the queen and the princess and says she can't look for rubies yeah aria obviously doesn't give a shit about the queen or the wheelhouse like the wheelhouse doesn't have windows okay she can't look at the planes this is so stupid yeah but sansa just doesn't understand why i even want to want to see anything like it's just flat land it's just farms and hold fast you see one cow you've seen like all of them and aria argues that it isn't telling sansa that you know like if you came you would know how cool it is and to be honest in my opinion both of these perspectives are perfectly valid

like yes Arya you are right nature is majestic and amazing and beautiful and we should explore it and fucking manifest destiny or whatever but I also understand Sansa's point of view in that you know like

for example let's say you're on a long train ride or even like on a on a road trip or you're in an airplane like on a long flight like being above the clouds and looking at stuff like that shit's cool for about i don't know the first hour maybe even only the first half hour but after the 10th hour it's so boring now imagine doing that for days all this dialogue is really good right like george has been noted to say that it's hard for him to write the younger characters but i argue he really nails the sibling dynamic with sansa and aria it's just two young girls with like banter and bickering back and forth constantly right he's actually said that he wrote sansa because the family got along far too well he needs some conflict a little spice

right and it does make sense we want the starks all happy and home and shooting arrows and playing with their wooden swords and you know but the family does get a little too far into the whole we're so happy everything's great yay they're the normal family there's no weird incest or anything yet like it's going okay dad's dead oh my god it's horrible like that that disconnect it needs a little bit of that normal family drama to kind of ramp up in my opinion sure yeah we don't even see aria and sansa pinching each other. When I had friends who were siblings at that age start pinching each other next thing you know, they're

straight up fighting. Yeah, like, you just need a little, it's like a, man, you still haven't seen Parks and Rec. God damn it, Ellen. There's this episode of Parks and Rec, and there's a wedding, and like this girl helps the wedding happen, and like, she was told

like oh i want a really good perfect wedding with nothing wrong but maybe a tiny bit of drama just for fun and she brings like a family member back that was a strange like it's just like you know you need a little drama is how i feel anyone that knows what i'm talking about you get me and sansa tells aria i hate riding horses and a Arya is like, okay, well, whatever. And she tries to impress her with things she saw when she was on the road. She saw 36 unique flowers. She didn't know when they crossed through the neck, which is where, of course, the reeds are from. They are from the neck.

And Micah shows her a lizard lion. Lizard lion! Yes! I'm so excited. I love the neck. I just love lizard lions sometimes they call them alligators in the books and whatever i'm like no why are we not calling them lizard lions again sounds like some fucking avatar the last airbender and also because this is announced today as a recording they're going to make a netflix live action series that's not going to be whitewashed of avatar the last airbender which the actual creators are going to be involved in

so it's not going to be like that movie that never happened yes amen hallelujah sister yes sansa remembers the neck a little differently it's's an endless black bog. It is damp. It is clammy. What are we describing? A narrow causeway, trees, fungus dripping from them, quicksands, lizard lions, and huge flowers blooming in the center of it. of it. I feel like I never took the time to really appreciate this passage. It's really beautiful. If you have the time to go back and read it this week, I totally recommend it. I assume that we're gonna see it. We're gonna get Howlin' Reed event. A dream spring dream. I just think that we should see Howland read earlier It's not gonna happen though We're not gonna see him to the last book when George plays his last card Let's be real That's one of George's cards

I just mean not at the very end So maybe beginning would be better in my opinion But either way he's gonna bring Ned's bones home When there's gonna be a stark Ned funeral thing Like moment Anyways Let's talk about Arya coming back with some flowers for ned speaking of sadness yeah that like how aria she comes back covered in mud and full of rashes from

gathering her father a bouquet of poison kisses which are these purple flowers and sansa thought that ned would scold aria and tell her to be the highborn young lady she should act like. But he didn't, and he just hugged her, which encouraged the behavior. Is this not contagious? Right, I found myself wondering the same exact thing. Right, is it not contagious? I do love this passage. Then it turned out the purple flowers were called poison kisses and Arya got a rash on her arms.

Sansa would have thought that might have taught her a lesson, but Arya laughed about it and the next day she rubbed mud all over her arms like some ignorant bog woman just because her friend, Micah, told her it would stop the itching. She had bruises on her arms and some ignorant bog woman just because her friend, Micah, told her it would stop the itching. She had bruises on her arms and shoulders too, dark purple welts and faded green and yellow splotches. Sansa had seen them when her sister undressed for sleep. How she had gotten those, only the seven gods knew. I love this chapter. You can hear Sansa narrowing this in her most 12-year-old posh manner, and you can hear Arya chattering away at her obnoxiously like a little sister right but also it's not like

I don't know it's not exactly a bad thing how she reacts like she is expected to be a lady so why is Arya not I think that's a lot of how Sansa is thinking they're just at completely two different stages in their development I think that's a lot of how Sansa is thinking. They're just at completely two different stages in their development.

Yeah, absolutely. They're just sisters. As humans. As human brains. Uh-huh. Yeah. Also, I want to talk about these purple flowers that are called Poison Kisses. Is this foreshadowing?

Because some notes on color you know we all already know that the color of purple is frequently associated with wealth and nobility because it was like expensive to make and blah blah blah but in a song of ice and fire purple also comes to be associated with like a lot of other things for example the valyrians and their eyes and i guess that's partially a nobility thing but whatever it also becomes associated with poison like in clash the strangler we learn look like looks like a bunch of little small amethysts and this is what ends up populating sansa's hairnet and that color of purple like that association is how we know that the maid with the purple

serpents in her hair the ghost of high hearts prophecy is santa so i don't know i just wonder if something's going on here yeah i think purple i mean especially because love is a poison right as we learn from cersei yes so isn't it isn't it oh that's a great line uh i think you could be onto something there that symbolism is definitely there even if not purple john snow it all works out in the end leona thought whatever sugar blood purple yeah i can like paste it all together for you here you go and thus that's my ted talk about ashara dane who lives in the neck with her husband howland reed and so aria prattles on and on about things she saw as they traveled south she's brushing her wolf she's scolding the maria on and off and santa just thinks on how aria could talk to anyone

and befriend anyone and talk for hours and that her new companion micah the butcher son is kind of the worst is what she's thinking she's like he's 13 he's wild he sleeps in the meat wagon he smells like meat meat wagon sounds like a heavy metal i would live there because i'd like to make their meat and i i mean i'm like a grill which you know i'm not doing myself favors you should just talk now um No, I'm not doing myself favors. You should just talk now. Meat wagon. Sorry, I was thinking of butchering and stuff because I was watching videos of people

butchering animals recently. Are you a sociopath? No, no, no. It was like legit butchering the meat because it turns out I know some things, but I don't actually know all the different cuts, where they come from, and what that means, right, for cooking. As Pat Spanogle says of me, Eliana loves food too much to trick us.

Yeah, that's true. You're pretty easy. But I am. Very simple. Yeah. But what this description reminds me of, the way that Micah is discussed, it reminds me of actually Ned Stark's first memory of Robert Baratheon, which is a lot of that sensory and scent information. Like, Ned says that Robert before smelled like blood and leather, which, in my opinion, is basically neat. which in my opinion is basically neat yeah especially because of the war which natsus used to cling to him like a perfume and now perfume clings to him like perfume so

and then sansa also i think dislikes maika because she feels that aria prefers maika's company over hers yeah she straight up thinks it which I feel like I didn't catch it before this time, but this time I might have been looking for some stuff more like it, but she literally thinks Arya prefers his company anyway, this boy, and something

interesting about this is this is like typical sisterly miscommunication, right? Like, Arya asks Sansa to come hang out with her and Micah. She's like, you'd know if you came and hang out with us. And Sansa thinks Arya doesn't want to hang out with me. She's busy with her wild butcher's boy.

It's a really interesting miscommunication. For sure. And so because of that, Sansa demands that Arya come with her and that it is expected of her by their septa

and while Arya ignores her Sansa goes on about the delights they should see that there's going to be lemon cakes and there's going to be tea and there's going to be soft feather pillows and the queen and to be honest it sounds really good

it's like if you get rid of the queen part you know like with Arya It's like if you get rid of the queen part, you know, like with Arianne's imprisonment, if you get rid of the imprisonment part, that's like the dream. Yeah, if we could just join these together. Yeah, just desserts and tea and pillows. Love desserts and pillows and tea.

Aria, though, thinks that the queen sucks and that's because the queen's not letting her bring her doggo what a bitch yeah because true lemon cakes tea and soft feather pillows are the dream but what would make this really over the edge and amazing is lemon cakes tea pillows doggos i have a doggo though that i'm like man man, I would drink some tea, eat some lemon cakes and hang out with a doggo and I'd be happy. So I totally get it. Like, I understand Arya's dislike of this.

And furthermore, Myrcella is afraid of the big bad wolves. So the queen won't let them bring the dire wolves. I think Myrcella should be more afraid of snakes. Maybe of the night. Hiss with me, my sisters. Hiss. Hiss. Oh my god, you're my sister.

And both moms. Yeah, two moms. Sister wife. Sister wife. Arya struggles at getting Nymeria to listen to her, right? She's annoyed at this small child who listen to her right she's annoyed this small child who keeps brushing her mats it's annoying namaria runs off woofily woofily woofily that's a word now woof woof sansa kind of grins you know she kind of smirks she's like the kettle master

told me an animal takes after its master and aria is wild too she's like that's what you get that's your dog she hugs her own wolf lady and lady licks her cheek and she kind of giggles so aria thinks sanza is mocking her and she angrily whips around she turns around and she's like i don't care i'm gonna go riding her long horsey face got the stubborn look that meant she was going to do something willful. I love that lie. I think that's very Arya. Sansa then tells Arya that she's acting like a child and that she's just going to go herself. And like with Arianne, this idea of who's acting like a child and who isn't

is something that comes up in Sansa's chapters, but it comes up a lot more later after Ned's death. Arya tells Sansa that the Queen and Myrcella aren't going to let Sansa bring Lady either! And then she runs off chasing after Nymeria. That's her mic drop.

She's like, well, you're dumb and old and they're not gonna let you bring Lady, you dummy oldie, so there. Bye. Like's that's pretty much what just happened there it is a mic drop it is a mic drop and to be meta here for a sec we love getting meta on this podcast as we know as we know sanza doesn't get to bring her wolf to king's landing to protect her right like from this moment aa says they won't let you bring Lady well they don't we see what happens when the Starks get cut off from their wolves right bad things happen like robbing

Braewind and I guess like Jon had to kill Corrin and he met Ygritte and Ygritte died and that was really sad so that was bad too and uh the show did some stuff so i think we could just the connection between the starts and their wolves are important and sansa not getting that connection and protection is also really important sansa takes the long way back to the inn and she's feeling embarrassed and alone alone and humiliated sansa took the long way back to the inn where she knew Septa Mordain would be waiting. Lady padded quietly by her side. She was almost in tears. All she wanted was for things to be nice and pretty the way they were in the songs. Why couldn't Arya be sweet and delicate and kind like Princess Myrcella? She would have liked a

sister like that. Sansa could never understand how two sisters, born only two years apart, could be so different. It would have been easier if Arya had been a bastard like her half-brother Jon. She even looked like Jon, with the long face and brown hair of the Starks and nothing of their lady mother in her face or her coloring, and John's mother had been common, or so people whispered. Once, when she was littler, Sansa had even asked mother if perhaps there hadn't been some mistake, perhaps the Grumpkins had stolen her real sister. But mother had only laughed and said no. Arya was her daughter and Sansa's true-born sister, blood of their blood. Sansa could not think why Mother would want to lie about it, so she supposed it had to be true.

And Sansa, that whole difference there, I mean, it's the same thing as when Sansa's all like, he's nothing like that old king. And Ned's like, oh shit, good call. Like, guess what? Jon isn't actually their half-brother. Like, she's all like, Arya looks more like Jon. Jon's weird looking. He doesn't look like us. I'm just saying.

Good call, Sansa. He doesn't look like you guys. Yeah, and the whole- There's a big point here too, like where George R. R. Martin, you know, he's like weaving in his exposition and here he's telling us The sea is strong! Yeah, he's telling us that, oh, Jon

looks like Arya, whom we're gonna find out later especially as we see her acting in this chapter Arya looks like Lyanna and what George R. R. Martin is trying to say is like, yo, Jon looks like Lyiana Stark. And he keeps drilling that home with all these like, if his mother was common, like it's been said. And, you know, like not my mom, like sometimes he dreamed of her.

Like all these little quotes in the fandom and in the book, all these little quotes in the book, the fandom gets all amped up about. Like it turns out Sansa was right, yeah? George was yelling at us, look at the books, look at these words. I like this phrase though that Arya is her trueborn sister, blood of their blood.

It reminds me of the odes that the Dothraki blood riders swear. Even later when we get the line from ned about you know you guys complete each other you're two parts the moon the sun you're like the moon and sun like you know that whole idea i love that and i love the comparison of how blood riders are how they are basically family like all this feels like a real family and that's what i love about it i grew up with no siblings but i grew up with all these best friends with siblings and i got to watch it as the outsider you know i was invited

over for dinner for you know hanging out for the weekend a sleepover whatever and this is literally how it was it's kids being kids and learning the dynamics of the world together and also also my parents once like several times when i was younger, like, six, seven, eight, tried to convince me I was adopted all the time for fun. So. Interesting. They were just like, you're adopted. And I'd be like, no, I'm not. Like, shut up.

They'd be like, yeah, you are. And they'd, like, be really serious about it. Oh, my God. They were also younger, so, like, now I'm thinking, I was like, fuck them. Fuck you guys. It's pretty funny. It is really funny. It's pretty fucked really funny it's kind of funny though like hysterical like that'd be like seven-year-old me like no you were adopted well me what the fuck yeah i also didn't have siblings but grew up with friends with them like i've heard of them. My boyfriend has

a sibling and he apparently javelined what is that thing called when you play pool? The pool cue? Yeah. Into his brother's neck from across the room. So I think this is tame. This is really tame. This is incredibly tame.

That boy had to go to the ER. Damn. Anyway, he had a straight up bullcute lodged in his neck. Anyways, so. Also the way that Sansa's logic here.

So then Sansa's thoughts they peel away when she gets back to camp. There's a crowd gathered around the queen's wheelhouse, and an honor guard has been sent from the capital to bring the king home. Sansa's sight is of Cersei standing atop the steps, and she's smiling down at someone and saying, the council does us great honor, my good lords. So of course, courteous, this is the beginning of sansa seeing good queen sassy

shrouded in layers of gold the sympathetic gracious queen right like this is entirely what she sees through these rose lenses sansa lets her wolf lady part the crowd for her and she sees two knights kneeling before sassy She thinks that their armor is intricate and gorgeous. We see Huion, though, is barest in Selmy, in a snow-white, enamel-scaled armor, and

the white of a kingsguard cloak. Then we see Rangly, then we see Renly Baratheon, who is young and handsome in deep green armor he is tall and strong with the baratheon black hair and laughing blue eyes yeah so depending on what version of the book you're reading um i think it was corrected oh my gosh is this like the 2001 version it got corrected eventually but in the original version

of a game of thrones george calls runley's eyes green and of course us crazy fans well i wasn't a part of it then i wasn't into that books then i was too young but at the time people were like what his eyes are green he has green eyes laughing green eyes and like it's a fake it was a mess up and george literally has said several times he's like i don't even i wish i never talked about eye colors like you guys are the worst i should have never talked about eye colors sometimes you fuck up because he has so much world building even the first book he didn't think about the seed is strong black and blue green eyes like I literally don't know how genetics works

me either honestly so he doesn't he straight up said it yeah anyways Redley's home is amazing it is antlered and it is golden I love it it's so great that's one thing. I do love the show kept the crown like that too. I think

that's great. Sansa catches a glimpse of a third knight that she had not noticed before who's also kneeling. It is Ser Illyn Payne. Ser Illyn! Ill. I-L-L. License to ill. License to ill. License to

kill, Illyn. He's pockmarked. He's beardless. He has hollow cheeks. He's a pretty creepy large looking fella. And he's wearing some basic green chainmail over boiled leather. He has a very big sword

on his back. And in his pelvis. I'm sorry, I don't know. We might. He could. As soon as I'm sorry, I don't know. We might. As soon as I said that, I was like, should I look on AO3 right now? Anyways, to see. There's ill and pain fanfic. What if I just read some ill and pain smut tonight?

You want to read some? Next podcast. No, you know what? When Ned dies, when Ned dies, we're going gonna do a reading for patrons where we read some ill and pain smut.

Oh my god. Can we? Yes, I think we should. What should we call it? We'll have to think. I'm so mad. I can't use this title. There's a title from someone from Ice and Fire Cons, volunteer staff and staff that has done something called pain is pleasure.

And we can't take that. But I know it's so perfect. But now I'm like, what do I do? So we'll we'll figure it out. We'll get a title. Patrons, please vote on what title you'd like to see. Or this ill and pain smut fic reading from ao3 i'm gonna find it and i will personally curate these fics until we find one that is ridiculous that's my new goal that's our first

sansa patreon episode is it a jamie excuse me is it a jam Illenpain? Anyways. I can't think about who else. I mean that, yeah, I don't know. Maybe Illenpain. Someone from the Reach. No one knows. I don't know. He's Illenpain looks really foreboding here, right? He's kind of weird, kind of foreboding. Kind of like, I might kill your dad with my sword

or his sword. Also, I can't talk. Like, that's kind of how he's coming off oh yeah there's absolutely that going on there and i do find sansa's reaction to ellen pain interesting because a lot of this chapter and her story especially later chapters is trying to set up this idea that just because they're beautiful doesn't mean that they're good and like of course we see the opposite of that with the storyline of the house because just because they're beautiful doesn't mean that they're good and like of course we see the opposite of that with the storyline of the house because just because they're not pretty doesn't mean they're bad but ill and pain i just don't get where he falls in all that because sansa's instincts

about him are right he does kill her dad and i mean we get a little more characterization of him he becomes a little more gray in jamie's chapters where he i guess becomes jamie's contendant and he laughs which is apparently a clacking sound which i also don't understand why it sounds clacking like he lost his fucking tongue like we didn't he didn't lose his vocal cords right which that does remind me shout out to uh ham fast 42 right with his tyion theories on the tongue. Oh, yes. The quiet lion.

The silent lion. I think that needs a little shout out during this episode. That's a great little essay. If you haven't read it, I honestly recommend it because it's just a cool theory. It really compiles some cool things from the books. These books have so much in them. Whether you agree or believe or whatever in different theories, there's just so much we can all believe in that's nuts you can't say that about many book series the queen addresses them telling the knights that the king will be happy to see

them but he is off hunting right now sansa can't focus on anything but ill and pain, right? Terror consumes her. Upon the very look at him, she stumbles backwards, and all of a sudden, she's stumbled into none other than air horns! Sandor Clegane! Pew, pew, pew, pew! I don't know who that is. Sandor Clegane?

Who's Sandor Clegane? You want me to talk about him? Well, let me just tell you. Sandor Clegane. You want me to talk about him? Well, let me just tell you. Strong hands grasped her by the shoulders, and for a moment, Sansa thought it was her father.

But when she turned, it was the burned face of Sandor Clegane looking down at her, his mouth twisted into a terrible mockery of a smile. You're shaking, girl, he said, his voice rasping. Do I frighten you so much? He did, and had since she had first laid eyes on the ruin that the fire had made of his face, though it seemed to her now that he was not half so terrifying as the other. Still, Sansa wrenched away from him, the hound laughed and Lady moved between them, rumbling a warning. Sansa dropped to her knees to wrap her arms around the wolf. They were all gathered around gaping. She could feel their eyes on her and here and there she heard muttered comments and titters of laughter. There's so much to unpack in this paragraph that

I'm not going to touch it because I understand. But Sandor's build and physical persona and his touch remind her vaguely of her father. She puts her wolf to protect her in between them. I just think this is an interesting touch. I think the tension in this scene and the on and off of Sansa being between this fantasy world, but also like all of a sudden tense and knowing she's in danger. And just, there's just so much to unpack here. There's a lot going on. Yeah.

You have a lot you could say about this. I'm not going to go on. The camp becomes very aware of Sansa's dire wolf and she can hear everyone whispering and gasping about Lady. Sansa becomes aware of the gossiping and Barristan and renly bear their steel looking down on her she becomes frightened and ashamed and tears fill her eyes oh there's so much going on my poor baby she's just like overwhelmed these are like it's pretty much the only extended time we get with lady and sansa too john later thinks about sansa brushing lady and singing songs to her when he thinks on winterfell

but we personally in the povs don't get to see lady like present time she's gone so soon too soon you know like fuckers i'm so mad fuck cersei it's funny because his memory of sansa with lady we get also very few moments of aria with her wolf and sansa's encounter with aria is aria brushing her wolf cute why are you always doing this shit i don't know what else to say other than like that hurt me i'm just breaking hearts i know i can't go because i have to talk about how cersei cersei orders joffrey to comfort sanza and so he does and her prince was there leave her alone joffrey said he stood her, beautiful in blue wool and black leather, his golden curls shining in the sun like a crown. He gave her his hand, drew her to her feet. What is it, sweet lady? Why are you afraid? No one will hurt you. Put away your swords, all of you. The wolf is her little

pet, that's all. He looked cinderella again and you dog away with you you're scaring my betrothed okay like also that's very chivalrous like that is some gallant behavior that's like oh you gonna stop being a fuck boy he's into me you know what kind of behavior and also not only that but he is matching his blue outfit with hers right now, which is like that's like a preteen. OK, OK. Like they are matching. That's a thing. We were preteens once.

Like that's pretty big. I'd gush on that if I were her. I'd be like, that's a sign, you know, because I was a freaking idiot. Like, oh, he loves me. You know, she she studies herself. She tells Joffrey it wasn't the hound who scared her it was ill in pain so Ser Barristan kind of comforts her Renly Baratheon kind of laughs at her and Barristan says child like Illyn frightens me too and the queen says well he should he's the

king's justice so he should be feared and sansa comments well you've chosen the right one then and everyone laughs it was just this moment of sansa just being absolutely charismatic and kind of funny in an awkward moment where she wasn't feeling confident you know she was feeling very not confident about that moment and she said something very witty and she did it was like a mark on her grade like okay you did your homework next it was her first little surviving court life okay moment

she dispelled all of the tension and regained in some ways control of the social situation then Barristan introduces himself stating that Sansa was well spoken as Lord Stark's daughter should be Sansa then wax-spoken, as Lord Stark's daughter should be. Sansa then waxes her courtesies upon him. Sansa knew the name, and now the courtesies

Septimordain had taught her over the years came back to her. The Lord Commander of the Kingsguard, she said, and counselor to Robert, our king, and to Aerys Targaryen before him. The honor is mine, good knight. Even in the far north, the singers praise the deeds of Barristan the Bold. The green knight laughed again. Barristan the Old, you mean? Don't flatter him too sweetly, child. He thinks over much of himself already. He smiled at her. Now, wolf girl, if you can put a name to me as well, then I must concede you are truly our hand's daughter. And one thing I really want to add to that is I feel like there's a lot of worship for like Liana Mormont, you know, nine years old,

sending a sending a text message going, Bear Island knows no king but the king in the north whose name is stark and this is sansa doing the same thing in a different court right this is sansa saying why you're the lord commander and you're so brave and you did this your name's barris in the bold and i'm being very courteous as a lady of a noble house to who i should be courteous to uh so I feel like it's a similar kind of thing when you think about how like this is an 11 year old girl have you ever met an 11 year old girl who comes to your house and goes hi miss Eliana thank you so much for having me over I've heard you're so good at cooking food or you're so good at plot you know what i mean though like what 11 year old has said that

to you lately dude i had an how old was she like 18 year old calling me miss eliana at work she was an intern and i was like you should call me eliana so you'd be informal like i'm not that old and well well well okay i i am i like, I'm a decade older than her. But still, I was like, don't call me Miss Eliana. It makes me very uncomfortable. It felt like a child did that. But I guess, I don't know, whatever. Anyways, Joffrey is prickly and he's telling Renly to take care of how he addresses his betrothed.

And Sansa's credit, she quickly answers, I can answer, Sansa said quickly, to quell her prince's anger. This throws up some red flags, right? Like Sansa's already showing signs of fixing her prince's anger. She's treading on eggshells, all to keep her rose lenses in place.

She feels obligated to do her duty as the Hand's daughter as well and impress the court. Sansa names Renly, noting his characteristics and also his features. Yes, a jack-o'-nape, as Barristan calls him. I love that. I love their little banter. We don't actually get a lot of Barristan and Renly banter, and I think they're cute. A ship.

But we could ship it um i want to dig into this scene and this idea of what courtesy is here because it isn't just being polite like we as modern readers think of it in our version of english and what we think courtesy is but george rr martin is again very inspired by medieval life and even some of the early modern usage of the word where courtesies actually mean something like courtly behaviors court is sees courtly behaviors okay that's not a coincidence that's why it includes knowing who sir barrison is when she says and now the courtesies that Septimordain had taught her over the years came back to her, and she's naming all of these different people. In the Middle Ages, people would study courtesy books.

They had straight-up fucking books to learn what the defining demeanor and duties of a courtier were, and this included personal hygiene and cleanliness as well as matters of etiquette courtly duties and codes of behavior you can read more about that in like the fucking cambridge guide to literature in english and during the renaissance these books actually also encompassed a variety of intellectual and practical attributes and skills in the ideal man of the age so when sans is referring to her courtesy she's not just talking about being polite though that's often what she has to rely on especially when ned isn't around but it's an entire code of what's expected from her as a lady and that includes knowing things such as who the other lords and ladies are and in doing so she's showing that the hand has given her

a good education because this is something that brings up they're like oh as expected of stutter it's showing that she was provided well for in the north and i would say that there's also a little bit of subtext in here about people thinking sans is just some country bumpkin oh yeah absolutely we see it even in the show they kind of embrace it in when aria's Braavos at the play and they make her family out to look just kind of stupid when they make Ned to look out to be just like a little dumb. Right. too. She immediately thinks about when she messes up a phrase like, I can't look stupid. I can't look stupid. What am I doing? Like, I need to, he's gonna, he's not even gonna like me. This is gonna be over. And this idea of I can't seem stupid to them, or that idea of being stupid becomes this recurring thing in Sansa's storyline. And I kind of wonder who told it to her first and made her feel stupid. Because we know that Cersei and Joffrey, especially after the death of Ned, they call Sansa stupid to her face, more or less.

They're like, oh, you're not very smart. But even before then, like in this chapter, that insecurity exists in Sansa. So where is that coming from? Did someone tell her that? Like, yeah, sure, you feel it as a teenager, but also where did someone say that to her? you feel it as a teenager but also where did someone say that to her i mean and it might just be like an overarching on all of the commentary of her being you know the more feminine traits we see it with quentin where he realizes you know at the end he feels stupid himself you know he felt like he was under repaired for his journey so maybe it's a manifestation of that

there's so much behind that there's just like as we that. There's so much behind that. There's just like, as we explore this, there's so much behind that. And in a way, we've seen what George can do with characters in like the Dance of the Dragons, right? In the whole story with cheese and blood is killing of the Targaryen princess. Like this, George knows how to write about that emotional manipulation and that emotional trauma he knows how to deal with those kind of things obviously like that's heart-wrenching what had to happen there with those sons so i think it's really flexing on that for sure sansa she starts to feel comfortable and in comes Ilan Payne looking very uncomfortable

and menacing lady begins to growl defensively and Sansa actually silences her with a gentle pet Sansa offers her courtesies as we talked about the one thing she has to give to Sir Ilan and she apologizes if she offended him she's like on kind of on top of the world besides this anxiety with ill and pain, right? Like she's like, I just named this Kingsguard commander correctly. I named Renly Baratheon correctly. I'm sounding good. I'm looking good. Joffrey's paying attention to me and I'm sounding smart.

And so she offers these courtesies to him. She waited for an answer, but none came. As the headsman looked at her, his pale, colorless eyes seemed to strip the clothes away from her, and then the skin, leaving her soul naked before him. Still silent, he turned and walked away. Sansa's intense level of feeling and sensing is so present in this first chapter. Sansa's afraid she said something wrong, and Runley japes and Joffrey tells her that Ares actually had Sir Ilyn's tongue torn out of the hot pincers.

It's not your fault. Cersei pleasantly responds that Sir Ilyn is very loyal, and he speaks well with his sword. Courteous words that, of course, shine enough for sansa at least cersei isn't giving sansa anything to doubt right i think it's important we look at the interaction she does have with cersei cersei is totally just the queen saying very courteous pleasant things cerce also tells sanza that her date with marcella is unfortunately going to have to wait because circe has to go meet with a small council until the king returns because as we all know robert doesn't go to those meetings which we're

going to find out in eddard's chapters and offers joffrey to be sana's tour guide of the Trident. So Joffrey takes Sansa by the arm, formally telling Cersei it would be his pleasure. Joffrey is totally being nice to his dad's best friend's kid because he has to here, right? He would much rather mutilate kittens like other boys and girls probably in Flea Bottom. Like, he's totally just like, yes, very formal. Yep.

Yeah. It would be my pleasure, Mother, Joffrey said very formally. He took her by the arm and led her away from the wheelhouse, and Sansa's spirits took flight. A whole day with her prince! She gazed at Joffrey worshipfully. He was so gallant, she thought, the way he had rescued her from Ser Ilyn and the Hound. Why, it was almost like the songs, like the times Serwyn of the Mirror Shield saved the princess Derissa from the giants or prince amen the dragon knight championing queen naris's honor against evil sir morgul slanders the touch of joffrey's hand on

her sleeve made her heartbeat faster it's just so it's very rich it's laid on thick right like this is laid on so thick like you know you're reading you're like oh god she's 11 years old this is like your first crush this is come on sansa come on baby girl oh for sure yeah it's killing me joffrey mentions well we could go riding and pre-team with a crush sansa stark who like several minutes ago said i I hate riding to Arya goes, Oh my God, I love riding. Which like this is like to give you a good anecdote. When I was in fifth grade, I had a crush on a guy whose name was Mike Traylor. I'm going to dox him like that.

That's his name. His first and last name. And he was a skater boy he said see you later boy to me okay he was in a skateboarding and it was his thing he was skateboarding brands had skateboarding like it was like etsy's and shit and vans i had vans too thank you they were gray with a banana peel yellow like stripe on them anyway so i bought a skateboarding book at the book fair that my school had to impress him i was like if he sees that i'm reading a how to skateboard book totally not missing like i miss the logic he might love me okay like that's what i thought i

was in fifth grade i was 11 years old 12 years old I was 11 I was 11 I was 11 okay I was 11 and I thought this boy will love me if I learned to skateboard want you to know that I am 26 years old I cannot skateboard okay I don't know how to do it it i haven't talked to mike trailer in how old was 11 15 years right like i'm just saying that when you are 11 kind of an idiot your frontal cortex isn't fully developed you do some stupid shit and you say some stupid shit but you're 11 so it's not really stupid it's just like i exist right so i can't skateboard i can't do that oh of course i love that you chose to buy a book about it instead of actually learning how to skateboard that's my favorite part of the story i did i was gonna read it and learn how by reading i can teach you

there's like there are places we can do it at ice and fire con if you would like me to teach you it's not skateboarding i can teach you to longboard it's a thing you want to do it's kind of similar it's it's actually very different in like some of the areas but it'll get you around if that is your goal if your goal is to be on this piece of thing and move on it okay anyway anyway it's also not a thing that just like teenage girls do teenage boys totally do this shit yeah it's just a thing that teenage people it's not even just a teenage thing people do it in general you get a little smarter about it as you get older and realize like oh perhaps i should be into this thing or like maybe i should

try and experience this thing because it's something that brings my what beloved joy and you get a little more mature about it as you get older but it's still a thing people do in general oh yeah but you don't lie about it you're like yeah i'll try that i understand that this is important to you, and therefore I will give it a go. Yeah, it's a different framing than when you're 13 and you're like, or 11, and you're like, I'm gonna learn how to skateboard

so this guy falls in love with me. Yeah, but a little different. Still, it's still I think a universal. Yeah, yeah. It ages. Joffrey convinces Sansa to leave Lady behind, and

says that he's going to leave his dog behind as well. He's speaking of course of the hound, which Sansa realizes slowly when he explains that. It's not a nice way to speak of your hired help, by the way,

to be like, I'm leaving my dog behind. It's kind of shitty, right? Like roaches. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Or like pouring wine over Timoth's head. Anyways. I still feel bad about Timoth. Poor Sansa, though,

because he like, Joffrey's like speaking to her like she's an idiot like she's like oh I just am just caught up in it you know she's not thinking right the quote that makes me the saddest is she wanted to hit herself for being so slow her prince would never love her if she seemed

stupid Joffrey though gets annoyed at her questions especially this one and he draws his sword and he draws his sword and he calls his sword Lion's Tooth showing her that he can keep her safe all while totally

tinking on her brothers playing with wooden swords because if you want a girdle like you, you should totally neg her brothers first I love the description of how his sword is shrunk down to fit a 12 year old boy king right about lion's tooth paw yeah uh I think that's an interesting detail and it's also a great moment for us to realize again Martin shows us time through time through the series war is not a game

as shown by their wooden swords versus Joffrey's sword that he will never use, right? Two things. I'm going to push back for a quick second or ask you about this because, A, as we know from the 1993 letter, which is like wild to me that what, Joffrey was going to kill or maim, right?

Robb Stark on the battlefield somehow and best him? And also why is it diminutive of joffrey to have a sword that's shrunk down to his size when aria has a sword that has been made especially for her size and gender i don't think it's diminutive i think it's interesting that Joffrey has a sword he's never going to use and doesn't know how to use and that he's drawing and using like as a thing, like as a this is my sword,

but it's made for this boy king that's never going to actually progress to do anything like he literally dies. Spoiler. And it's like he never uses that sword. Nothing ever happens of it that sword actually becomes more important than his character really was when sansa is all like having incorrect memories of it and aria references it as the correct memory and conversation like it's it's just interesting because he's just never gonna touch that sword okay all right that's fair that's

a good that's a good explanation. Especially after you have things like you know, Widow's Wail up here. And it's like... That's a sword that matters. Yeah. Lion's Toothpaw never mattered. Ever. Never mattered. It will in a second. For like a minute.

Maybe two. The day is magical. As Sansa's enveloped in her fairy tale the air is heavy with flowers the woods are beautiful joffrey has a beautiful horse and joffrey's horse is also swift and so sansa's struggling to keep up and then they explore some caves at the riverbank some ellia sand shit you know track a shadow cat joffrey's like finding a hold fast and commands them to provide food and wine for them this is wild because you know he's the prince of the king like not a good look by the way like to just like show up somewhere and be like you must find me food and wine for my lady like yikes okay like this is wild to me that you just show up somewhere and you're like you're just like yeah get me food i am assuming that's a restaurant i guess but like

this is like just someone's house but i'm assuming this is someone's house they live there yeah yeah i'm assuming people are going to be compensated for this, right? That's part of why they do it? No, I don't think so. He didn't have money on him. How does he make his allowance? What do you think he does, Eliana? He doesn't have an allowance. This boy has no allowance. This is wild to me.

I had an allowance because I worked. I did chores. He's out here like, these roaches better feed me oh my god you should dine like quentin should eat some type of roaches he deserves it no i'm just saying joffrey deserves it oh i thought you were gonna talk about like fiber and shit oh no that isn't bug i will not eat roaches are dirty yeah they, they sound dirty. They just reproduce. I'll eat grasshoppers. Awesome. I'll eat locusts. Crunch, crunch. Crunch, crunch. Yeah, you would. Spicy

locusts with honey. I've eaten mealworms. You know, like... Yeah. Oh, you're wild. Girl's Gone Cannon wild. Wild cannon. Girl's Gone Culinary. Because next we're going to talk about how Joffrey and Sansa dine on fresh trout and Sansa drinks more

wine than she's ever had in her whole life several trains of thoughts gonna go through them fast so i need you to keep up with me okay poor quentin at ice and fire con 2017 that's the first sansa drinks more wine than she's ever had in her whole life. Sansa tells him she's only allowed to have one cup at feasts. Sansa's drunk, okay? Joffrey says his betrothed can drink as much as she wants, and he refills her cup again. Joffrey sings for her on horseback as they ride, and Sansa's feeling dizzy from the wine because she is drunk, guys she's 11 she's 11 interestingly enough his father's vice and his mother's at that i say fathers with quotes around it if you couldn't tell from the inflection their vice is drinking so of course what does joffrey in in the end his wine is poisoned it's interesting in this moment he's choosing

wine as his vice like his parents. It's honestly to me actually very sad like we were talking about adolescent development and of course the environment that one grows up in is going to affect that sort of development and so Joffrey just imitating his parents in that way it's really sad to me he's the same age as Sansa you know he's 286 he's uh he's two years older yeah he's not that much older than her you know

it's sad I also want to for some reason linger on this idea of Joffrey weird he's doing what? this read through i was like oh yeah so he's singing wonderwall do you think your summer hall yeah joffrey rides towards the battlegrounds and he wants to he wants to brag about his daddy's victories to a drunk preteen

and it's interesting how he tells that story to her that was where my father killed that's not the voice i was using for joffrey earlier i'm sorry i just really wanted to use that voice for him that was where my father killed rhaegar targaryen you know that wasn't a good i don't fucking know how boys were i know that was where my father killed rhaegar Targaryen, you know? He smashed his chest and crunched right through the armor. Then my uncle Jaime killed old Aerys and my father was king. Yeah, that's exactly how that

happened. Yep. Little fuck. Oh my god, he's nauseatingly exhausting, right? Like, he's just, he's exhausting. Could you imagine being around him? Ugh. I do, I like, have had to be around people it's emotionally draining i am exhausted i'm drunk talking about no wonder sans is drunk you gotta be drunk to hang out with some guy like this he's the worst

the vocabulary that's used in this sentence though it's interesting it's definitely trying to evoke this sense of irony like we already know that cersei and jamie are fucking from brian too but here we have robert and jamie again and they're in this like one thought and line together and joffrey explicitly calls one of them Robert his father and the other his uncle which is nudging the reader of like hey hey my uncle's my dad the reader knows the whole time we know what these characters don't know right like Ned's whole plot is us knowing the the equals sign like we know what comes after that in his story and he does not you know so when his death comes yeah it's a surprise but it's really not a surprise because we already knew it's so interesting how he sets this up

they hear a wooden smacking noise and Joffrey wants to investigate further to Sansa's dismay. She cautions him that they should go back. She feels really nervous. He guides his horse toward the sound anyway, even despite her pleads, and she

follows. She wishes Lady were with them. Sam. Me too, man. It's so messed up i hate losing lady that's like the worst when that happens every time i read the books i'm just like these are the worst books and then i do it anyway joffrey reassures zanza you're safe with me, my lady. You know, a lie. They see a young boy and girl playing at night with broom handles as they turn the corner.

Joffrey laughs, which startles the boy and it causes him to turn around. Oh my fucking god, it's Arya. Go away, Arya shouted back in them angry tears in her eyes. What are you doing here? Leave us alone.

The angry tears in her eyes what are you doing here leave us alone I just the angry tears in her eyes and Arya's just so embarrassed that they caught her she's trying to learn to sword fight the butchers boy she's just so embarrassed with her friend her friend not the butchers boy his name's Micah Eliana that's true

that's true and then they're just there and she's like no my secret and then when joffrey asks who the boy is he replies micah the boy muttered he recognized the prince and averted his eyes my lord and you can see here micah reverting back to what he's been taught though it actually isn't quite accurate heah reverting back to what he's been taught, though it actually isn't quite accurate. He's just stepping back on what he knows of this person is of a higher station than me. And why would Micah have expected no more than what he's already had to internalize? Like, why would he ever think that he was going to need to encounter a prince?

And so because Joffrey isn't a lord, it's not entirely accurate for micah to say my lord which also stands out again because george r martin's playing with that language again here with my lord versus my lord to show that station in terms of speaking when i think it's right to say that micah should actually be saying your grace yeah as a, and from what we learn in like Dunkin' Egg, for example, they say your grace. Micah, for wanting to be a knight, and takes out his own live steel sword to fight him. When Micah hesitates, Joffrey asks if Micah only fights little girls. It doesn't even matter that Arya's the one who asked him to. It doesn't even matter that Aria is the one who asked him to.

Yeah, this one hurts. A lot. Aria rushes to Maika's aid despite Sansa's protestations, and she slams her stick across the back of Joffrey's head. Wild note, I love this, Worldstar. There was a loud crack as the wood split against the back of the prince's head, and then everything happened at once before Sansa's horrified eyes. Joffrey staggered and rolled around, roaring curses. Micah ran for the trees as fast as his legs would take him. Arya swung at the prince again,

but this time Joffrey caught the blow on Lion's Tooth and sent her broken stick flying from her hands. The back of his head was all bloody and his eyes on fire. Sansa was shrieking. No, no, stop it, stop it, both of you, you're spoiling it! But no one was listening. Arya scooped up a rock and hurled it at Joffrey's head. She hit his horse instead, and the blood bay reared in like galloping off after Micah. Stop it! Don't! Stop it! Sansa screamed. Joffrey slashed at Arya with his sword, screaming obscenities, terrible words, filthy words.

Arya darted back, frightened now, but Joffrey followed, hounding her toward the woods, backing her up against a tree. Sansa didn't know what to do. She watched helplessly, almost blind from her tears. Then a gray blur flashed before her, and suddenly Nymeria was there, leaping. Jaws closing around Joffrey's sword arm. The steel frowned from his fingers as the wolf knocked him off his feet, and he rolled in the

grass, the wolf snarling and ripping at him, the prince shrieking in pain. Get it off, he screamed. Get it off! Is that dramatic enough for you? I'm not gonna- oh my god. Oh my god oh my god there are two things that i just realized as you were there's a lot i realized rereading that also

right like aria scooping over rock and hurling it at joffrey's head there's some of that david and goliath imagery in there of like Arya the underdog underfoot against this like bully this giant Joffrey and then that dynamic of Sansa trying to hold him back and be like no stop it and it I don't know that it eggs Joffrey on

but he's like oh that kind of makes him I don't know want to do it more it's kind of like the dynamic between Cersei and Robert yeah it is it really is of like the dynamic between yeah yeah it is it really is he loves the like antagonization it's a lot of action going back and forth and sansa is just back there and i think it's really important that she says stop it both of you you're spoiling it she doesn't just say like aria stop she, stop. She says, Joffrey, stop. Like, you're both spoiling it. You're spoiling it, both of you.

I think it's really stupid and small, but the fact that she says, no, no, stop it, stop it, both of you, you're spoiling it, is really important, because they're both spoiling this fantasy she had built up in her head. Right? They're both ruining it. Not just had built up in her head. Right. They're both ruining it. Not just Arya. It's Arya and Joffrey.

It's both of them. And she recognizes it in that moment. But from this moment after this chapter, as we're going to get into in the second chapter of Resanza, she displaces that. She just says, whatever. It's a thing of the past. It's fine. Joffrey's the best. He's my king. I you know yeah I think that's a really good point I hadn't thought about how she's seeing both of

you I think that's so important I think it's so small and stupid and I'm sure people will disagree but like I think that's important that she literally just like all the filters are off Sansa took her courtesy off she threw it down she's not playing the sister role she's not playing that role she's just going stop it both of you are ruining it this is how it was supposed to be

in my head like I had it all planned out and you're both ruining it and I'm 11 this is bullshit you know I'm drunk yeah that's the other thing dude like i get it pre-teen drunk she's pre-teen drunk let me tell you how this goes in my head this is the time i'm gonna tell you all now my alternate ending so again sansa is very drunk right and joffrey's being super creepy and it's very strange and predatory that he keeps just being like, yeah, drink more.

Oh, we don't have to go back yet, of course. But my idea is that Sansa should have gotten plastered and so drunk that she threw up on Joffrey. Which, really, that would have saved the day. Think about it. Think about it. She throws up on him. He becomes so disgusted. But she has to throw up on him, like, right when they encounter, like, Micah and Arya.

And maybe he, like, says, like, a shitty thing or two. And then Joffrey's just like, I can't deal with this. I'm covered in vomit. And it distracts him. And so he doesn't want to deal with Micah. And Micah, Arya, and Nymeria, they all run away. And that means that Nymeria gets to stick around, and Lady gets to stay alive,

and I have fixed the entirety of A Song of Ice and Fire. Wow. So tell me about season five. Tell me about your season five. Sansa throws up on Ramsay, and Bear throws up on the on the Harpies the sons of the Harpies

and it fixes everything your mind is so brilliant I'm the new Dan and Dave I love your work can you tell me what actually happens at the end of this chapter?

Is there something that actually happens, or what? Yeah, what actually happens is that Arya calls Nymeria off, she goes to grab the sword, and Joffrey, interestingly, thinks that Arya's about to stab him. And Joffrey's like, I'm gonna tell my mom! And then Arya

throws the sword into the water, and then after aria and namaria leave santa tries to soothe joffrey's pain and instead he snarls at her his eyes snapped open and looked at her and there was nothing but loathing there nothing but the vilest contempt then go he spat at her and don't touch me oh that turn don't touch me don't touch me. Oh, that turn. Don't touch me. Don't touch me. And Jack Gleeson, can we just talk about Jack Gleeson was great. He was so good. He was so good.

I know, I feel so bad for that boy. He went through a lot for this role, and none of you deserve him. But the way that this chapter is framed, it's a song ending in disaster for Sansa Stark. Her first date, which she somehow landed with a prince, goes completely awry. Instead of dealing with that initial feeling, she instead embraces her destiny of marrying the prince in ideas that court life is full of romance and magic. It would have been a lot easier to discern had she not been playing this make-believe with players that are much more experienced than she is, and also getting her drunk for the first time. She's drunk on the day, she's drunk on the prince, she's drunk on the wine,

and also drunk off of her stress. Her brothers play with wooden swords in the yard and Joffrey is brandishing a sword with a name. The city offers a highborn girl so much more than measly Winterfell could ever in comparison, but of course we all know there are greater machinations to be revealed, right? The golden queen is really rotten, her prince is a minor psychopath, and pretty much everyone at court wants to fuck her. Sansa's arc transforms swiftly from a coming-of-age story into a learn-or-be-killed scenario, and it doesn't take more than six chapters for that to kick in. Just think, we're going from you're spoiling everything to they're killing everyone in just one month.

That's some fast character development. For sure. And as you said, they're setting up all of these different tropes of the Golden Queen and also her Golden Prince. And Sansa 1 is already telegraphing her story in miniature it starts out with a song and it's telling us about how it all falls apart at the end and it's nothing like it's supposed to be

and of course Sansa 2 is going to offer us just that if not more put into the sense of a tourney so yeah what? I've never heard you talk about this chapter if you haven't heard me talk about this coming chapter i did just talk about sansa 2 uh not a cast uh the podcast by brendan b fish and poor quinton you can find them at not a cast dot sorry not a cast a s o i a f dot

podbean.com of course Twitter, the esteemed Twitter. So check that chapter out. That was a fun chapter. But we will be launching into Sansa 2 and Sansa 3 next week. And that's your homework, everyone. Go listen to what Chloe has to say over there. My name is Chloe. You can find me on Twitter and

Tumblr as at Liza and Arbor. You can also find me on Twitter and YouTube as at Drunk, A Song of Ice and Fire History, at Drunk, A Swath History. And I am Eliana. And you can find me as Glass Table Girl

on the Mesa Monthly Podcast and the Song of Ice and Fire subreddit. Thank you so much for listening to our first Sansa episode. Be sure to subscribe to us on Twitter if you haven't already. We're at Girls Gone Canon. Shoot us an email at girlsgonecanon

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Sansa 2 and 3. Bye!