Girls Gone Canon Cast - ASOIAF Episode 211 — ASOS Arya IV featuring Carm

Episode Date: December 15, 2023

Lady Smallwood, the Ghost of High Heart, the Lady of the Leaves, Anguy... who isn't in this chapter? We'll tell you who's here to greet these characters with us: It's Carm! This episode, Carm joins us to discuss their favorite character and favorite minor character, and to scrub past the surface of gender in Arya's storyline.  Where to find Carm: Carm's Twitter: https://twitter.com/caeservalid  Carm's Tumblr: https://weaseloftarth.tumblr.com/  Background music:  "Vulcan" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/ --- Check us out on Bluesky! https://bsky.app/profile/girlsgonecanon.bsky.social --- Eliana's twitter: https://twitter.com/arhythmetric Eliana's reddit account: https://www.reddit.com/user/glass_table_girl Eliana's blog: https://themanyfacedblog.wordpress.com/ Chloe's twitter: https://twitter.com/liesandarbor Chloe's blog: liesandarborgold.com Intro by Anton Langhage

Hello and welcome to Girls Gone Canon Reads A Song Of Ice And Fire, episode 2-11, Aria 4 in a Storm Of storm of swords featuring our friend karm i am one of your hosts chloe and i am another one of your hosts eliana and yes are you ready for a packed episode with our friend karm hello karm thank you for being here today hello thank you for having me i I'm so excited about this. Karm, you, honestly, the first time I saw like your Twitter even, I think, I think all I saw were just some really sick shit posts and tweets about Aeswaf, so we're excited to have you.

We're going to talk about your relationship with Arya and with Aeswaf and why you're into this chapter in just a minute after housekeeping, so thank you. Thank you for coming on. Yeah, a minute after housekeeping so thank you thank you for coming on yeah i'm so excited thank you so much for having me yeah thanks for having us you're about to give us a lot of your time tonight so buckle up all right let's get into housekeeping real quick real dirty patreon episode this month it's's December 2023, not December 2013, which is when you might think it would be because of what we're about to tell you,

but our Patreon bonus episode for The Stranger Tear and above, stay with me on this one, is going to be on The Hunger Games. Yes! At this time of recording, we're pretty into writing the episode. We're part of the way in.

I can't tell you how much is just going to be books, movies, what yet. That might be remain to be seen when you bust into the episode. But yes, it's 2013 in this bitch. We're bringing you back a decade with the hope that we can get through these books and talk about them

a little bit with you. Eliana and I kind of brainstormed about it. And Eliana was like was like yeah we should do that we should do that louie i like these books and yeah as you said it feels a little 2013 i saw a tiktok recently uh from someone who's like a casting director and like was like we should cast josh hutcherson in something and the director was like no one wants josh hutcherson turns out people want josh hutcherson whose name i only learned last night so what how did you know i don't know sweethearts i can't that's five nights at freddy's guy now i don't know actors they're co-opting him bridge to terabithia boy yeah wow

eliana we have much to talk about with you and peta Malark, it sounds like, in this episode to come. I like the performance and Peeta and all these things. I just can't keep all these white boys' names straight in my head. It's weird because this one feels like your type. Does he? I don't know. Anyway. Well, nonetheless, we're going to have a blast talking about the Hunger Games, and I hope we go on to do the rest of them. Was that not the plan? I better be. I don't know. It better be. That's my thought. Aliana, can you tell them where to find bonus episodes? You can find bonus

episodes on our Patreon. That's patreon.com slash girls gone canon c a n o n available for people in the stranger tier and above that's $5 and up. But there's also things available for people in the stranger tier and above that's five dollars and up but there's also things available for people in the ton dollar and above tier thunder tier and above which is discord brunch slash brappy hour and you know what i'm sorry that's it that's a wrap for this year but don't worry we got a jam-packed 2024 coming up for you and by that we mean the same probably amount of brappy hours usually but anyways yeah we do a monthly brunch slash happy hour. It's for the Thunder tier, like Eliana said, 10 bucks and up. And you also get access to our private Discord server that has tons of channels where people are discussing their various fandom things or even about work, right?

Bitching about work or shitposting memes. Respectful thirsting. It's a very respectful channel i would say there's a lot going on there we'd love to have you and it's kind of like a lifetime membership you know don't screw it up come enjoy taste hang it's a blast but next year we'll be back with those brunches we'll be announcing that date for you uh via patreon probably is where you'll hear that update for January 2024. So keep on the lookout. Slay. And with that

in mind for the holidays, Aria 5 will be our last Aeswaf POV episode I think next week. I think that's it until 2024. So thanks for hanging out this year with us. We'll talk a little more about year close in the next episode and what to expect for our holiday

schedule. We are putting together our holiday schedule we are putting together our holiday schedule which perhaps you all are also doing the same putting together your end of year schedules and calendars that we will be having a couple of patron sponsored episodes that will be dropping from the patron bonus episode vault in that meantime so you won't necessarily be absent you'll hear a couple couple of other episodes they'll probably be a swap themed or other media themed uh and they might not necessarily coincide with our pov apps but thanks to patrons for unlocking that and we will be back in probably mid-january to start back up with aria 6 yeah but that's future aria let's talk about aria here today in the present with karm present with

us in this room a present to us yeah wow holidays happy holidays i'm always saying this uh karm tell everybody a little bit about your aeswaf relationship i mean personally i know that okay actually we need you to solve something bigger before we get into that how do you pronounce do you pronounce it and guy on guy on g right so as the resident as the resident and guy enjoyer yeah i love him so much yeah i always i call him Anguy because that's how I gathered it from the show. Scandalous and vulnerable moment for me. I actually watched the show before

I read the books. I started watching the show my freshman year of college, which was 2018. I was getting ready. The final season was about to come out and I was like, I want a thing to watch. So I binged all seasons one through seven in two weeks. And then I watched season eight as it was coming out live. And, you know, hated it, etc, etc. And I just kept rewatching it. And then I

started listening to History of Westeros, shout out, because I was really curious about like lore. From there, I started branching out more. And I was like, okay, I want to read these books. So I read them, love them deeply. I read them during the pandemic. They were very comforting to me. I like wasn't super into like reading. I was as a child, but these like really like reawakened my love of reading. And I just think that the world building is phenomenal. And the thing I like the most about A Song of Ice and Fire is the characters. world building is phenomenal and the thing i like the most about a song of ice and fire is the characters they're so like wonderfully human and like they do beautiful things and they do terrible things and it's like just really wonderful to be witness to aria is my favorite love her so much she just is such i'm an aria trans boy truther I like see so much of like me as a little kid in Arya.

People always talk about how Arya is a tomboy. And I think that there's a lot more to her than that, of course. But like that like really stood out to me when I watched the show, just like from the very first moment we see her on screen, like doing the stitches wrong. I'm like, ah, she's so real. So yeah, I love her chapters. I love her inner, the way that she thinks and the way that she like talks. And I think that her journey is probably the most interesting to me in the series. I love that.

Thank you for sharing that with us. And I think there's something like, she's so clever. Aria is just so clever. She's quick as a whip. She's just like, I like that girl. I think because George also obviously likes Aria and because Paris likes Aria, we're real blessed. We're real hashtag blessed when it comes to Arya.

So why this chapter is my next question. Because I know that I gave you, I think, front of the mill, right? What did I say? Clash through dance, whatever. Why this one? This is one of my favorite chapters in all of A Song of Ice and Fire. I really like that kind of like nothing happens. Like this isn't the chapter where we meet Beric. This isn't the chapter where we meet Harwin. This is just the chapter where we

hear all these things about Beric. And it really adds to his whole like folklore situation. And this chapter is also like, the end of this chapter made me cry so hard the first time I read it. Like, it is just such a beautiful moment between Arya and Lady Smallwood. Just, like, the gender of it all. This chapter was crazy for me. And I also love, you know, the Ghost of High Heart. Anytime she's here, I'm pleased. So I just thought it was, like, a great chapter where it's, like, I'm like, wow, it's, like,

such a treat. We get Lady of the Leaves. We get Ghost of High Heart. We get Lady Smallwood. I don't know. It's just, it's such a silly chapter too i just love it it's very underrated yeah it's got like some really light notes and then also a little sadness and it's got a little pepper of the brotherhood but not too much right they're not taking over the pages yet and it

focuses more on those small yeah stories i love the brotherhood also small wood stories small wood stories but just because they're small stories doesn't mean they're small. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. I'm so excited about this chapter. Shit. Yes.

Yes. Ah. I also think it's interesting that you said what you rewatch the series over and over again, trying to make some meaning out of it, which means like this is something that does not happen as far as I remember, right really like in in in this show this lady smallwood stuff so yeah yeah i think it's interesting that this is one that hit you so hard because of that not because of that hit you so hard yeah in the context of you knowing the show so well yeah when i say i rewatch the show i would say that that applies mostly to

seasons like one through four ish yeah like i'm showing it i'm showing it to someone i'm seeing right now and i'm like listen like i am gonna tune out like after a season four like if there's nothing more for me dissociate stare at the wall yeah and even even with season four like i like it but it's not like amazing yeah some yeah but some of the reading the books was really exciting to me because of like all the stuff i would read reddit posts where they'd be like this is different in the books i was like oh my god like i need to read it but nobody ever talks about this chapter like that nobody ever is like remember when lady smallwood gives aria boys clothes no one like talks about this chapter except for like in the completely isolated context

of the Ghost of High Heart prophecy. It's just like it felt really special to me. Yeah. I love that. I'm excited because I think every time we get to share an Ace Woff chapter with someone and like get to learn a little bit about why it's special to them.

I think it imbues like a new specialness back into it. You know that even after five years of reading like this, like you still can love the series. And I don't know, I feel like there's that era when you first start reading Aeswap, especially like the reread era, when you're like, you're getting it, but you're like, you're like,

damn, that was a crazy series I just read. And you're like, I have to start rereading it. Any series that immediately like commands you to reread it like that in your brain that's a special series like there's no other way to put that so that's yeah it's special there's a special book series anyways i don't care about it though or anything associated with it yeah i hate it that's that was where we were leading with that right that's that was the next progression. You know.

I don't care for these books. I don't care for what is it? I don't care for Job. Yeah. I don't care for Job. We don't care for him. It's Job, yes. All right.

Buster's baby boy. No, I think Buster was just top of mind because I was, like, watching a therapist talking about parentified children, and I was like, Buster, it was, like, fascinating. I'm over here about to compare them, like, Renly and Stannis and Robert, you know, the true steel and the breaks before he bends and

shiny copper. Buster is just shiny copper. My favorite thing to do is assign Baratheon brother identities to random trios. Yes, always. Absolutely always. Always sunny? There it is. Literally. God. Oh, well, that works better with the gray joys, but I digress. We're getting off track.

Thank you, Carm, for coming on. We're going to have some fun tonight. We're going to have some shenanigans. I think we're going to have some laughter. Maybe a few tears. Maybe some music. There might be some singing. I think it's all gonna happen for us ahead in this episode. That's your teaser at the episode

ahead. I forgot you've been making tunes. I forgot. That's so exciting. We have an email. It's from one of our good friends, Lo. And I would be remiss if we didn't get to include this, because it's got some really great ideas in it. Now, there are two big thoughts in this,

so we're going to start with thought one. I'm going to lead us in on thought one, and we're going to chat about thought one. And to quickly set some context, this is, uh, we are time traveling, and this email is sent slightly in reaction to some of Arya's adventures in Harrenhal. Yeah. And it's two separate thoughts, and they're really fucking great thoughts. We'd be remiss if we didn't include them.

I want to bring them up one at a time. We're going to go thought one, read it, talk about it, and then thought two, read it, talk about it. I'll lead us in on thought one, and we'll go from there. Ready, everyone? Start your engines. A low email is always good. It's an adventure. You know what I mean?

I love a low email, so this feels good. We were due for one. Thought one. Lo has emailed us discussing good wife Amabelle and her reaction to good wife Hera dying. Lo actually kind of puts out the thought that maybe they had a romantic relationship and could have been lovers, somewhat reminiscent of when Garth Greyfeather dies at the wall, and we get that line, elf of runny mud let out a howl loud enough to wake sleepers in the shadow tower. Lowe says that heteronormativity and homophobia in Westeros could really prevent them from grieving

their lovers, thinking to couples like Loras and Renly or Lehner and Joffrey Lawnmouth, right, if we're looking at Hot D. It also reminds Lowe of this quote from Judith Butler, where Butler discusses how heterosexual relationships are the only ones deemed legitimate by society, and what consequences that really has. It means that when you arrive at the hospital to see your lover, you may not. It means that when your lover falls into a coma, you may not assume certain executorial rights. It means that when your lover dies, you may not be the one to receive the body. It means that when the child is left with the non-biological parent, that parent may not be

able to counter the claims of biological relatives in court, and that you lose custody and even access. It means you may not be able to provide healthcare benefits for one another. And if you've actually lost the lover, who was never recognized to be your lover, did you really lose that person? Is this a loss and can it be publicly grieved? Surely this is something that has become a pervasive problem in the queer community given the losses from AIDS, the losses of lives, and loves that are always in struggle to be recognized as such. Yeah, that's, uh, it's very terrible and sad. So this particular Judith Butler quote brings to mind my favorite play ever written. That's dramatic, but it's my current favorite play. It's called Stop Kiss. Yeah, it's called Stop Kiss by Diana Sun, and it is about a lesbian couple in the 90s. And long story short, I'm not going to spoil it or get into the plot but one of them

is in a coma and it is like really heart-wrenching and very interesting to see what happens at the hospital because her lover goes to visit her and she has to pretend like they aren't in love and the girl who's in the coma like her kind her kind of estranged family is there, and they're the ones getting told things first. They are the ones that, like, are being comforted by doctors, and it's just, like, so, like, cold and, like, interesting. So this reminds me a lot of that. Another thought that I had about this low email about good wife Hera and good wife Amabel, I think this is very interesting,

especially considering that these two women are the ones that sentence Arya to go serve with Whis at Harrenhal. It makes me think about how they originally find solace in the violent status quo of Harrenhal, furthering the horror in our point of view character's arc by sending her to the monster of the week, which is Whis. Even though they play along, they still are not safe from the brutality that awaits many low-born women in westeros it kind of brings to mind for me the women that are like they're not like other girls or like i don't have female friends because of the drama those types of women who try to separate themselves from the rest of the female population only to face the exact same misogyny in the world as their perceived vapid and lesser counterparts so yeah reminds me of that

i think that's a great way to look at it especially because harrenhal itself is built like a torture isolation machine yeah right like it's meant to isolate you it's meant so that you're not allowed to befriend other people and have hope yeah it kills hope it's meant to extinguish hope right and for her to have lost even if it wasn't her lover but like putting it into that term for amabel to have lost her lover the only person that was like her reprieve from being out of there or the person that she trusted enough with her thoughts about the place whatever they may have been you know like that's that's harrowing that's fucking tragic stuff these books suck yeah

harrowing hall harrowing hall have you seen have you guys seen that meme it's like spongebob in the dark hallway and it's grainy the joke originally was like I think about iCarly and it's like Carly and Sam's plot we're doing a wacky webcam

and it's like Spencer's subplot and it's like the spongebob plot. We're doing a wacky webcam. And it's like Spencer's subplot. And it's like the Spongebob in the hallway. That's how I feel about Harrenhal. It's just a ridiculously brutal subplot. Every time I read it, I'm like shocked. It's dark. Yeah. I'm like, Arya went through what?

It is. Especially because in the show, she's just a cute little cupbearer for Tywin. Obviously still traumatic. But what happens in the books is is unfathomable to me. Yeah, because they did, I will say, they brought the tickler stuff to life pretty graphically at least, but I mean, especially

because it's through Arya's eyes in the book, we're seeing it in the background written as it is, with no emotion added to it. She's like, I don't know why that's happening, and we're like, oh, because they're prisoners of war, and they're're being tortured even though we know they know nothing it's disgusting yeah it's it's rough yeah it's uh yeah and aria is very young so it's kind of like normalized you know in that perspective it's like well this is just what's happening now but we

at least get adults in the brotherhood being like that that was not normal i'm so sorry you went through that but i i i really like this idea of good wife amabel being maybe good wife to harrah if you will good wife get it right yes yes yes their names um but also i i think it's an interesting also like perspective when you look at the way that Amabelle reacts to Arya, like with the absolute, absolute venom and like kind of going after and attacking Arya. Because that's almost the exact same reaction that we see Loras have upon Renly's death. Loras just goes out there and is like, wow, we're gonna kill everyone out here. out there is like wow we're gonna kill everyone out here it's it's almost this idea that you know because isolation and grief right if you're not permitted access to those emotions if you think that anger isn't an emotion or it's the only emotion you're allowed to have that's the one that that manifests there so i think there's something great too like in the gender like you

know gender lines blur on gender constantly and war brings that out sometimes. Like people that explore that with war stories are great because when that's the only relationship you have, like you realize none of that fucking shit matters but survival. They survived in Harrenhal together. Like at that point, all norms in Westerosi society internally for them. Why would they fucking matter if that's the person who protects you and loves you and cares about you? I'd kiss him. Just saying. Just a little. Or a lot.

Finding, I don't know, company in hopeless times like that one devastating episode of The Last of Us. I know what you're talking about. I've seen a lot of the scenes from it. From that episode specifically. Have you not watched? No, but I played Unfor...

Are you unable to watch? I can't. Yeah, it's not something I can do. Thank you. It's not for me. I was just curious. I take us back to that one conversation when I thought my friend wanted me to buy the Last of Us game,

but he wanted me to buy Life is Strange, so I was confused. And then I played several hours of The Last of Us, and I thought the whole time that my friend hated me. I was like, why did Dylan do this to me? Dylan hates me. He knows I hate horror. He knows I can't do jump scares.

And then I realized, after building up this entire resentment in my head, that he had told me to play not The Last of Us. Yeah, he told me to play Life is Strange, which, by the way, I'm playing, and I love it. But besides the point, I forgave him in full for what he did to me just like a totally different game yeah that he did this though i want you to make sure everyone heard that he did this for sure he didn't do it because he told me what to play i just didn't read it so anyways i digress

i digress i can't watch that shit but i know what happened i read about it i keep up on pop culture even if i can't watch it you could watch that one episode i think we'll see so we'll see we have another thought from low so thought number two from low low agrees with what eliana said a handful of chapters ago about aria and gender and violence that aria really transcends gender by using violence being a warrior this reminded low of leslie Feinberg's book, Transgender Warriors. Zee describes Joan of Arc as an influence for the book in that Zee started thinking, if society strictly mandates only men be warriors, isn't a woman military leader dressed in armor an example of cross-gendered expression? Previously, we've had Lowe analyzing Joan of Arc,

whether on their blog or in our emails, against Brienne of Tarth. And similarly to Arya, Brienne kind of takes up that position as an honorable knight where Arya's a little more morally gray. Eliana had pointed out it's a balancing act. Arya needs to get out of a hard situation. Violence empowers her to do so, but it has a handful of negative side effects, right? In an article by Athena Nguyen, Patriarchy, Power, Female Masculinity,

she discusses something similarly. Usually, Nguyen discusses butches in relation to patriarchy, but Lowe thinks it still applies. Butch women are sometimes accused of being complicit with patriarchy through their alignment with masculinity. Turf life feminists, in particular, have made some quite unfair accusations of this sort. What such critiques often miss is that butch women and other masculine women have the opportunity to detach masculinity from men,

and as such they pose a challenge to both the patriarchy and the sex binary. As Nguyen writes, the butch lesbian not only denaturalizes the connection between masculinity and men, but also denaturalizes masculinity itself. She makes masculinity appear queer. Female masculinity fucks with gender and, in doing so, contorts heterogender in such ways it fails to register as stable, set, or certain. This is the revolutionary potential female masculinity and gender nonconformity in general holds. Lowe goes on to comment, toxic masculinity can arise in masculine women, as well as men, and should be criticized, like intimate partner violence.

On a larger scale, though, we see this in women who seize political power on the backs of marginalized people. You know, like Alma Coyne, District 13, looking at you. Sorry, that's a callback to our future Hunger Games episodes. We're back in 2013 on the side. Sorry. Low also shares a quote from feminist scholars Cinzia Aruza and Titi Bhattacharya and Nancy Fraser criticizing female politicians in our world. Ooh, I love this, actually.

This is a fun one. There's nothing feminist about ruling class women who do the dirty work of bombing other countries and sustaining regimes of apartheid, of backing neocolonial interventions in the name of humanitarianism while remaining silent about the genocides perpetrated by their own governments, of expropriating defenseless populations through structural adjustment imposed debt forced austerity in reality women are the first victims of colonial occupation and war throughout the world they face systemic harassment political rape and enslavement while enduring the murder and maiming of their loved ones and the destruction of the infrastructures that enabled them to provide for themselves and their families in the first place. We stand in solidarity with

these women, not with warmongers in skirts who demand gender and sexual liberation for their kin alone. To the state bureaucrats and financial managers, both male and female, who purport to justify their warmongering by claiming to liberate brown and black women, we say, not in our name. Lowe thinks that becomes very important to think about, especially when it comes to various A Song of Ice and Fire characters who try to seize power from a disempowered situation. In Arya's story, she's trying to better her position, but she accidentally worsens the situation for the small folk around her, especially women, though she's a kid. We all forgive her for that.

So of course, to sum up, I mean, agreed, we do. I think we all jury jury gavel gavel. To sum it up, Arya embodies masculinity in a form of gender nonconformity that has the potential to destabilize patriarchy and the gender binary by detaching masculinity from maleness. But masculinity, power, and violence can also be dangerous. Arya as a noble person especially has to be careful that striving to become empowered doesn't happen at the cost of marginalized people. And I really agree, right? Because it's not just

Arya that has to worry about. I think that's something that many of the POV characters have to worry about. True. I'm thinking a little bit about that, the thing about women in power who still commit atrocities. And I just wanted to put it out there that I'm like a Cersei Lannister equals Margaret Thatcher truther. So real. Yeah, like Cersei's crazy. And it just makes me think a little bit about the show and how they framed Cersei as this

like girl boss kind of character. And it's like, well well she's still certainly starving people to death and certainly inciting war and definitely not doing what's best for everyone but she does drink wine and look hot while doing it so on some level I forgive her yeah and then I also just wanted to put it out there that I am obsessed with Leslie Feinberg the book Stone Butch Blues like changed my life and made me realize that it is possible to be like transmasc and a lesbian which is like something that i never thought was like a thing before because of like discourse but leslie feinberg is a brilliant author and a brilliant organizer and they will

be missed i completely agree about cross-dressing being a form of gender non-conformity i mentioned this in an email a while back about how people argue against Arya and Brienne being transmasc because they're like, oh, well, they're just dressing up as a man because like, that's like how they can be fighters in the world. And that's like how they can achieve safety. And I would argue that that doesn't have to be mutually exclusive with being trans. But Lowe put it much more succinctly. So much respect. But yeah, I completely agree with that i think that a character being transmasked doesn't have to cancel out a character dressing up as a man for their safety yeah and low's written so well about that too with danny flint which i think

comes in a lot with aria's plot we see a lot of that and we'll probably link one of those below for you listening if you haven't read it please do check it out it's some good. Lo has that horrible habit of saying things so much better than I ever could have. How dare they? Horrible habit. They've got to cut it out. How dare they? Yeah. And I really like this reminder of how, again, are you embodying masculinity? And in general, right? People embodying divorcing masculinity from patriarchal norms has this potential for liberation, but being mindful of how power, those

power dynamics in general, and I hope no one thinks that, you know, I wasn't saying masculinity inherently bad and violent, but using the tools that reinforce patriarchy, you know, coming back to Lord, Audre Lorde of, you know, the master's tools will never dismantle the master's house,

and unfortunately, what Arya was doing made shit worse for some of those people but i mean she she wanted to make things better this is what she thought would make things better and she's obviously constantly striving to do so but she's a kid also not real we forget you killed that little kid whatever aria i forgive you yeah and she was right for that i'm kidding yeah she should i mean it was preservation i think probably yeah i probably would have stopped that kid too or you would be dead yeah to the kid what was she supposed to do like just say please you think i would have died i mean i think you'd hesitate and you would have died eliana unfortunately like aria diva had to be done no i'm just kidding i also really appreciate that this is like one of the only

podcasts you probably have to um specify if you're talking about audre lord you know writer philosopher uh civil rights activist or lord that was why i was laughing i'm sorry i just wanted to put that out there i'm like not noted it's okay. I'm like, not noted artist, Lorde. Civil rights activist, Audre Lorde, not Lorde. Pure heroine. Of musical talent. Speaking of 2013, speaking of music things from 2013, Lorde does do the song for, it's either the third or the fourth movie.

Hunger Games, it's Yellow Flicker Beat. Anyways, it's catching fire, but I don't have time to go into this. We'll talk about it a different time. We might have to do like several Hunger Games episodes for the first one. Anyways, we'll get to that. Backwoods Slay. Patreon episodes for 2024 will only be Hunger Games themed and we apologize for nothing. See, 2013.

Well, a big thank you to Lo for giving us See? 2013. Well, a big thank you to Lo for giving us this wonderful essay, and if you haven't already, you need to go check out Lo's new podcast, Ragnan's Harbor. They've put out a couple apps. They're working on some great podcasting over there.

It's really good so far. You can hear Lo do this all the time. I highly suggest it. Go follow them. Yes. All right. For those of you at home listening, I mean, Carm's not new to this.

Carm has listened to the podcast. Carm knows a lightning round. I love a lightning round. Carm knows their way around a lightning round. I don't need to ask them that. We love it. And this is like a baby one. I was actually kind of sad.

I was like, damn, this is a baby one. Karn deserves a bigger lightning round. But those of you at home, we're at the lightning round, which is the quick catch up between what you missed from Arya 3 in A Storm of Swords to Arya 4, A Storm of Swords. I am going to start us off with Samwell 1, where sobbing at the fists of the First Men, Sam must take another step. Tyrion 3. I'm sorry, I had to understand my Roman numerals there for a second. Tyrion 3. At the War Council,

titles and keeps are handed out to the loyal. Tyrion is told he will marry Sansa. Catelyn 3. Robb executes Lord Karstark for his betrayals and disloyalty. Jaime 3. Jamie gives the brave companions a hand.

That one is crazy. I'm out here. Did you get it? Right, because he does get- I do. Because he gets his hand cut off. Chop chop! Yeah. And that brings us to A Storm of Swords, Aria 4.

Back with the Brotherhood without banners, Aria meets the Ghost of High Heart and a few other characters on the road. We start off with the Brotherhood seeking Beric at a village where a dying, wounded old knight, Lord Lichester, tells them of his battle against Sir Maynard on a bridge. Lichester took six wounds before he killed Maynard, which, coincidentally, or not coincidentally, is the same amount of times that Beric has died and been brought back so far. And while Beric's body and self has been irreversibly changed by death, I would argue

that the Old Lord has also been irreversibly changed by age. However, one process is natural and the other is an abomination. So I just thought that was a cool parallel there. And also, there is very purposeful imagery of the red hair and

black temper. It's very much Targ Blackfyre imagery. This seems like a summary of a lost Dunkin' Egg story to me. Yeah. It brought me to Mystery Night, right? With Quintin Ball, Fireball, and Damon Blackfire, and Maynard

Plum, like, is really what it made me think about. A little bit of Sorin Sword, too, when it came to, like, that Blackfire versus Targaryen imagery. It's interesting that you compare it to Beric, because that's also Beric, right? The red hair, Black Temper is Targaryen imagery. It's interesting that you compare it to Beric because that's also Beric, right? The red hair, black temper is how he's described. It makes me think back to like Sansa 2

in a Game of Thrones at the tourney. Yeah, exactly. And you brought up Maynard Plum, but also, I don't know, something about Beric not dying, kind of dying, not dying when hanging on the tree also makes me think of Odin from Norse mythology. Obviously, there's been a lot of talk of how Bloodraven has

lots of Odin vibes, you know, tree shit, but I don't know, just the thought of Beric hanging there kind of feels like that. And we also go over him losing an eye later in this chapter as well. Allegedly. Rumors.

Yeah, he had that sexy little eye patch in the show, too, you know? A little... He didn't look nearly dead enough in the show. He looked just, like, kind of roguish and handsome. Yeah, if he had been killed just a couple more times for my liking, maybe a bit more for me, you know? That's... The dead are the better.

Right. Wow. You know who else would have looked better debtor and in the show but also kind of alive lady stoneheart lol that was a long trip but we took that with you and john next season she's coming yeah season nine right yeah i actually heard about that a maester is watching after them, and he tells the group, once the knight falls asleep, the dying knight here, once he falls asleep, the maester tells them Beric was caught and hanged near the god's eye by the Lannisters, and they're too late. But Lem comments, ah no, Thoros probably tore him down, he's a hard man to kill. The maester recommends they ask

the lady of the leaves for more information so off they head Gendry wonders if the stone bridge they cross to leave his lands is the bridge he fought on and Tom of Seven Strings says if there was a song they'd know for sure who Sir Maynard was and why he wanted to cross that bridge

so bad you know who else wanted to cross a bridge really bad? Rob Stark. Ooh. Whoa. Yes. Yes. Love that. Bad choice, too. Terrible choice. And it ends up, you know, we start seeing more

of what that meant in this chapter and, I don't know, this book. Yeah. I'm taken by, like, songs being the big theme this chapter right stories and songs are very prominent throughout this chapter as we get all these different characters coming to the front if there was a song we'd know it we'd know what side fought where and etc that's why we're making our roberts rebellion musical subscribe now on patreon.com no one for a first look a first look i would bang every week we give you a new look in this podcast camp isn't home but isn't it

called robert still the ballad reprised theme that he would sing after killing rhaegar would be crazy just some guest onon shit, you know? Wow, yeah. Could be Gaston. I thought we were going, like, Frollo. I mean, I'm just... That's a little more for Stannis in the third act. You know what? Anyways, this is... Don't give away the story yet, guys. God.

We have a line from the book. Poor old Lichester might be as far-famed as the Dragon Knight if he'd only had sense enough to keep a singer. I think that this perfectly encapsulates the value that Tom adds to the Brotherhood.

Without a singer to immortalize his feats in the Legend of Beric, he isn't truly immortal. What good is the ability to come back to life if he's doomed to irrelevance like poor old Lichester? Tom is essentially saying that what separates Beric from the ability to come back to life if he's doomed to irrelevance like poor old leicester tom is essentially saying that what separates beric from leicester isn't just the ability to come back to life it's more than that it is the legend and thomas evans does he's there to impart that legend

upon the people i i really like you calling that out and i mean that's true right some people are chasing that as their form of immortality we see a bunch of like the you know young squires and knights and men being like we're gonna go for glory they're gonna make a song about us and then they find out like oh wait no that fucking sucks dying sounds like it fucking sucks but

maybe for some of them that's living forever or even Tywin who's like that's my legacy but it also goes to show like the importance of oral traditions and oral histories which have been largely kind of devalued in a lot of like western society a lot of western like historians as a for a long time as like a valid form of historical preservation but that's where the stories live that's where the culture lives and that's also the way that a lot of people remember like hey that's that's important to stories live. That's where the culture lives. And that's also the way that a lot of people remember,

like, hey, that's important to our culture and society because of X things. And it gets passed down through community. Precisely. We have another line from the book from Lem. Let me get into character. Lord Lichester's sons died in Robert's rebellion. Some on one side, some on the other.

He's not been right in the head since. No bloody songs like to help any of that. End scene. This isn't directly related to the quote, but I wanted to bring up that right after this quote is the first time that Arya herself

is actually even mentioned in this chapter. We read about 11 characters before the POV character comes up at all, but we hear about Lord Lichester, Maynard, the Maester, Beric, Thoros, Lem, the Lady of the Leaves, Greenbeard, Gendry, Jack Belucky, and Tom Sevenstrings before we even get Arya's name. And this happens a lot in Arya's chapters, and I think that it really, like, effectively adds to the sense of a loss of identity in her arc. Like she is very much Arya underfoot in all of her chapters. Becomes less about her and more about everyone else.

Yeah. Even to feast in becoming no one. Right. That is really interesting. I haven't noticed that. And I'm going to keep an eye out now for that as we go forward in the Arya chapters. Because, yeah, I haven't noticed it. And as you said, right, speaks to her arc of becoming no one. But also, if it's more about all the other things like that, you know, gathering intel stuff. But also even like, you know, she found out the past few chapters. She's like wow

maybe being aria isn't enough you know being aria is still isn't gonna get me anything i want it's not gonna connect me to the people i love because turns out being aria's liability too it's so unfortunate she makes me so sad. Yeah, these are sad chapters. Also, Lem talking about the sons fighting on each side of the war makes me think of the lords in current times that try and play both sides of the field on purpose. Like, they'll send a

son to go fight for Stannis, then another son to go fight for Renly. And I think it's pretty cool to get an inside look at the potential turmoil of their future, even though they're trying to, like, they're trying to seize power through this.

But it's interesting to see that how that's going to turn out isn't going to work out in their favor. Especially because it always is, like, I feel like the lower houses, it's never the great noble houses that have to make that choice

quite obviously because they're the ones waging the wars. But it's these lower houses that can get away with it because who's going to track whether a very tiny house is sending three suns? And this is a technique I've played with in Crusader Kings 3,

a Game of Thrones mod, and CK2, a Game of Thrones mod before. So I'm not new to this idea of putting a little in each pot and hoping one of the pots boils. But the bad news is you lose the other pots, quite obviously. That's just what happens. Like we see that right with upcoming for Fire and Blood or for House of the Dragon, Erik and Arik, right? Who end up as Kingsguard members split across two warring factions and it leads to great tragedy.

It's very sad. Heartbreaking, even. So sad. My brothers, even. So sad. My brothers, my poor sad brothers. I don't have any, so I just gotta adopt the ones I can find. Right, you guys are both only siblings. Or only children. Yeah, exactly.

We're sister wives. You got it. You figured it out. Yes, exactly. Yes, no, yes. We are only and eldest children. I'm the eldest. Yeah, I can't imagine being like you know yeah i don't know your parents just using you as pawns to be like i don't know one of

you is gonna die just gambling and be like oh shit oh shit how's it gonna turn out but uh it's cold there it goes you were talking about something about lord leicester feeling very Duncan Eggie. Yeah. And earlier, you know, Chloe talked about the mystery night and for me it actually kind of reminds me a little of the sworn sword in Lord Osgray, right? Losing

all his kids and, you know, they're talking about songs in history here and there's this lionizing of Lord Leicester, right? And the glory of him at this bridge and protecting it against Sir Maynard. But he doesn't even remember that he lost his sons. I mean, maybe he does and just doesn't talk about it, but the other people do. being like, Rob, I don't care if you win. Do we even need to keep fighting this war? I just want, like, what does it all matter if you die? I don't give a fuck if you die. She just wants her family whole and alive. Whereas for Leicester, the winning mattered to him, I guess, and the glory, the status. So that's all he remembers now in his old age. And he's forgetting the people that he loved. And I don't know, maybe that's also kind of death in a way. He made it to his old age and he's forgetting the people that he loved and i don't know maybe

that's also kind of death in a way he made it to this old age but still killed a part of himself the one that's hurting by forgetting his loved ones he's just ripped that part out of himself so as to not have to deal with it and in a way it also mirrors then barrick's memory loss which comes from dying over and over again he doesn't remember he's like i think i was betrothed maybe but like also to davos losing his four sons at the start of this book right like there's all these mirrors of loss when it comes to losing your children and i guess that happens to catelyn too now that i think about it aka lady stoneheart but really again hammers home this line i come back to like constantly of miriam osd saying, look to your call and see what life is worth when all the rest is gone. And all the rest isn't, you know, status, the titles.

It's the people you love. Yeah. That's beautiful. Also, I never really, like, it was just really beautiful. Thanks, Eliana. Thanks for being you. But also that line from Miriam, really, it echoes when you think about the long night right like see what life is worth when all the rest are gone or when they've become what they've become

and yes that really to me i'm like oh long night think of that also or barrick or barrick yeah i also want to point out interesting that lem knows so much about Lord Lichester and deaths in Robert's rebellion. Because, you know, he probably fought in that war very closely on his side. As he was very prominent in Bran II, A Storm of Swords. Oh, right. As the Knight of Kisses, drinking with his buddy Robert. Just interesting to me, one of the king's men here that very much

remembers him. Do you think him and Robert ever explored each other's bodies? Maybe. Yeah. Robert would never say, but did he slip a pinky in? Probably. I'm just saying. I'm deeply imagining it now. I'm like, interesting. He's called the nine of kisses. I don't know. Just a little

kissing something. Right. Just a little pucker uh so yeah yeah that's the lemon is the puckering of the hmm yeah interesting interesting thoughts thanks for sharing them you too uh i'm glad we got to the ultimate part of that which came to um rim jobs yeah about whatever we want to chalk that up to but yeah about yeah about i don't know it's just very much to me i'm like that's richard lawnmoth it's very hard for me to say it's anyone else so i'm just gonna point it out from now on when i was like oh that's richard lawnmoth that's another fact on the lawn because like how does he know that how does he know that yeah i know how i that? Yeah. I know how. I know what you are, Richard. Yeah, there wouldn't

really be any other reason. No. Come on, George. Come on, Gurm. Yeah, I mean, that's the thing. He's there. That's his oral history. Not in that way. I'm sorry. I meant it very literally. I meant it very literally. Sorry.

You meant it the oral way i'm just so funny even when i don't mean to be so listen three days later this entire group reaches a hidden village where the lady of the leaves lives a stick thin white-haired woman in rough spun that seems very sick she tells them barr Beric's dead, but Lem once more says, nope, he is not so easy to kill. That's a little overkill. I would say we get it, George.

We get it. He's coming back. But the woman's overjoyed to hear that. She's clutching Lem's arms and saying, may the warrior defend him and the red priest too. Okay, new hot take. It's semantics, but have you considered that like barak is in fact actually very easy to kill skill issue hmm it's a skill issue if he has to keep

coming back i mean he's clearly very easy to kill that's like he's like he's he's young i'm older than barak dundarian oh yeah you're right yeah i'm not step it up yeah that's right i'm sorry we we we just got our voting licenses our voters id i don't even know what it's called that's how much you know and i can't even vote in westeros it's such bullshit yeah yeah barrick is pretty easy to kill he's always dying but the whole chapter to me totally adds the legend of barak it reads like a fable or like a dnd campaign yeah like every other paragraph is like three days later the next morning like a day passed it like the whole chapter takes place over a total of like eight days i think but it's it's like a dnd campaign in the sense that like we get to see all these like quirky villages and

communities both above and below the Riverlands. Like, we get the underground community and the tree community. We meet these, like, crazy outlandish characters and the party members undertaking a quest to find their mysterious lord. Can you tell I'm binging Baldur's Gate? I actually was thinking exactly of, like, the first, like, plot in Baldur's Gate 3 when you were describing this campaign just now I was like yeah yeah and then you said Mysterious Lord and then I was like yes Finding Halcyon I haven't I haven't advanced and I'm sorry we're so off topic because like the game turns out triggers all of my anxiety I love it

Of decision making and I'm like am i in character enough do i if the i'm actually i'm playing as aria i'm playing as non-binary i'm playing as non-binary rogue wood elf aria and i'm making all the decisions the way that aria would make the decisions oh that's kind of cool because then you can you can uh do the nature things and talk with animals and shit right yeah yeah it's nice nice i think aria i mean i was gonna say i think aria could have navigated that situation but aria also navigates this one so yeah that makes sense i also wanted to say that the village up in the trees were my i don't know if you guys i know that you guys have but are the listeners if you've seen avatar the last airbender yeah um this is exactly like jet yeah jet and his

community so cool oh i love that because that little plot is so aria coded yeah like they're like vigilantes and it like really it's i remember being like eight watching that and being like oh my god what do i stand for just like aria right it was just like so like i guess not everyone in the fire nation is a bad person crazy whoa yeah i mean actually yeah they do a really good job in that show of showing i mean that that there's a diversity of people who live in all these circumstances yeah which is also here in as well yeah and that's so aria too right like that part like learning that just because someone lives somewhere they're not bad exactly just like ed sheeran huh thank god ed sheeran taught us that lesson the true ghost of christmas past with red hair and a black temper

oh my god quentin ball my! My favorite thing that I... I showed my old roommate Game of Thrones, and when we were watching it, they didn't know anything about it, and I convinced them that Ed Sheeran was going to be a major recurring character in Season 7. They were like... Ed Sheeran came on, and they were like, Wait, are we to see more of him? I was like, yeah, unfortunately.

He's a main character in this season and they were like no and i was like yeah like he's like he's here a lot oh you pranked their asses you got them my next point is that i was at first very like reading this for the first time i was deeply confused about the character the lady of the leaves because we already and the the very same chapter just a few pages later we have another tree lady in the same you know same chapter and this lady of the leaves really just gives us information we could have easily gotten from anyone but i think like i figured it out i think by giving this role to this cryptic tree woman role to this cryptic tree woman germ kind of george kind of furthers this dnd feel and i think it works much better and more effectively than it would be if he just like gave it to a random

villager i think that like creating this entire environment just for us to learn where barrack might be is a very smart choice yeah i i like the way that you described lady of the leaves as basically a fancy npc character i'm gonna make a very embarrassing admission i low-key forgot about her until rereading this chapter yeah and the way you described her makes perfect sense now she doesn't do much yeah i love though the implication like that she's actually like keeping a group of peoples together and safe even if they're not strong enough to be out there fighting and on the front line of what's happening in the riverlands like because she's described as sickly she's described as wayfish kind of and sickly and she's got gray hair long and she's

really grateful to the brotherhood for showing up but also like she's somehow holding it together because we get this great scene of like them emerging from the trees and we learned there's like a maze of rope walkways going on there like this is a whole group of people that have found a way to survive through the war and uh last chapter eliana if you remember jack be lucky blows that horn we talked about and you mentioned we mentioned a couple things i said it was kind of like almost reanimation of others and you were like i was thinking it was like coming to life and language is similar to children of the forest right like coming to life and the trees and here they're very much doing that right like they're described as using the trees for hiding and shelter but they have that maze of the rope walkways and it makes me think about the south

how what we know about the south is all the weirwoods not all of the weirwoods but a large majority of the weirwoods have been cut down i mean even ghost of high heart not here but later we get her with all the stumps everywhere uh they've been cut down yeah which kind of implies that whenever it did happen you'd think that the children of the forest were kind of refugees in the south i mean there's an implication of the story going on about that and here these people that we meet up in these trees are also refugees of this war left to wander left to survive and the brotherhood is trying to do what they can to help them yeah they've they've been displaced from their homes and are yeah living in the trees and i i like the comparison to the tree town in in avatar because for me i was like oh yeah it's just like in donkey kong but that's not the story of donkey kong at all yeah i like it but yeah

great great connections with last chapter as well they are taking shelter under a scorched sept the next night in a village called sally dance which is honestly top top names that george has ever come up with in anything in these books and for a place i don't even get it sally dance the windows of the set broken the age septon who greets them says that thieves took the mother's costly robes the crones gilded lantern and the silver crown that the father had worn they also uh gave the maiden like a mastectomy on the wooden statue and pried out her eyes which were jet and lapis and mother of pearl this makes me think about the septs that we see that are much more bare bones.

And I wonder if this restraint in those septs is to avoid raids like these. It makes me think a lot about the sept that Catelyn visits in A Clash of Kings, for example, which also has its home in a small village. Sallydance is also a very small village, but the seven

gods in this one are represented by charcoal drawings instead of like elaborate jeweled statues i googled sally dance because i was curious about why they may might have like decorated their sept so much nothing came up except for that this village got raided by amand targaryen during the dance of the dragons and then again by the northmen in the war of the five kings so sally dance is kind of going through it yeah it makes me think a bit of clash of kings right with the the riot of kings landing in the septon the high septon getting his crown stolen off him as they murder him and definitely about george shoving in our faces that decadence that unneeded and unnecessary decadence in war being punished being stabbed or whatever and obviously

very akin to real world where you know these are not real things people are wrapped up in superstitions that buildings or material that does not have a heartbeat or breath that it's not a real thing you know people get a little confused about that. Like the Apple Store, if you see an Apple Store and its windows are cracked, you know, because somebody hit them, you shouldn't feel sad for the building. It is just a building. It will grow back thanks to capitalism. And that's kind of a little not at this, right? Because here at Sally Dance, this sept has more riches than the people of Sallydance have.

And I'm not saying, like, your gods shouldn't be beautiful, whatever. But there's a lot of, like, reminiscing on Dany and Viserys fleeing, selling a crown to live on the run, right? Or Rhaenyra selling her crown to stay alive, to have food. Like, what is a beautiful carving of a god with pearl in it what is that when you can't feed your people why why is that number one when you can't even keep your people safe from war and it's that symbolic destruction of the sept right the people are starving they're hungry the gods aren't saving them praying to the gods aren't saving them praying

to a pearl-eyed god isn't saving them praying to a diamond-eyed god isn't saving them the wares that the gods wear could save them they could feed them but these wooden statues of riches don't give a shit about the small folk and neither do the people that are doing the war so yeah yeah i think i don't know it kind of means something different to me knowing that, like, allegedly it was Northmen who did it, and not the people of this town who benefited from, you know, selling their wares. Because this is something they, as a town, chose this as something that they wanted to maybe invest in. This is something that mattered to them culturally, their religion. invest in this is something that mattered to them culturally yeah their religion and like i think of you know the desecration of religious sites and warfare and sometimes i'm just like dang it's fucked up and things like that and also people's religious artifacts when it comes to preservation of culture so i i see that you know on one hand as you said it's a symbolic destruction it's showing

how like the people are starving. What does this matter? But at the same time, I'm also like, dang, it's fucked up of those Northmen to do. But I also mean, what are the Tullys doing? To these people. About it. That's their people. That's what I mean.

I agree. I think it's fucked up the Northmen did that. And obviously, it's really the Karstarks, right? We know it's coming after the Robb betrayal. But also, what are the Tullys doing? They're supporting this war and also not guarding their people. Except for Edmure. Edmure would have been like, let's not do that. Yeah, Edmure tried.

Edmure would have been like, let's not do that. Edmure on the case. Yeah. Edmure apologists. Yeah, absolutely. But that's what I mean, though. Like, where's the... No one gives a shit. The Tullys don't care. They're busy fighting Robb's war because that's the bigger mean though like where's the no one gives a shit the Tully's don't care they're busy fighting Rob's works that's the bigger picture so unfortunate I don't care about the apple store Eliana is all I'm saying yeah I mean Rob doesn't even care about his sister so yeah exactly I mean like the the Tully's and most of the lords they only care

when their small folk get raided if they're getting raided by their political enemies yeah like they don't care if they're getting raided by their political enemies yeah like they don't care if they're getting raided by their own people they're like oops that was a mistake damn catalan you fucked up but oh well we'll move on yeah i don't know that's more what i mean yeah i think it's you know i i do think that communities should have culture and they should have their own things they care about including like if they believe in this religion and they want to protect that that's great but also i'm just like damn your boar's lost rob what are you doing buddy look at the people you're supposed to protect them king of the fucking riverlands yeah and as you as you said right it's meant to kind of symbolize how depraved everything's become

yeah and how no one's protecting them because i'm like i mean i i look at this like george what was the point of this detail of they cut? They cut off the maiden's boobs. Yeah, that was a very pretty Maris, right? Very pretty Maris. Yeah, I was thinking that. It's what Biter threatens, too, with Brienne. I was in a D&D campaign where this happened.

To you? Not to any... No, no, no. I don't know. It was a bizarre campaign. We had a lot of fun. That doesn't reassure anyone. No, I'm no, no. I don't know. It was a bizarre campaign. We had a lot of fun. That doesn't reassure anyone. No, I'm a little worried about what goes on in D&D. That's a slight. I'm going to need you to dispel it through the rest of the thing.

You know, I'm like, worried about your tits, but we can move on. It's just DIY top surgery. Exactly. That's what D&D is all about. Need. So Arya feels ashamed, angry, and feels Gendry looking at her. A dozen men are living beneath the sept, but they have no word of Beric either. They have a decoy leader amongst them.

This also happened in that, anyways, dressed in soot black armor and a lightning sigil on his cloak. And Greenbeard tells Arya, the lightning lord is everywhere and nowhere, skinny squirrel. Unhelpful. Arya responds like, whatever, I'm almost a woman. I'm going to be 10 and one years old. She's just a baby. She's just a baby. She also just turned 10, I'm pretty sure.

Like at the beginning of this book. And Greenbeard's obvious, very normal response to that is, best watch out, I don't marry you, and then tries to tickle her under her chin. Yeah. Yikes. That's, um, that's like a great, like, that's a creepy uncle line. That's like a Damon Tartt- just kidding. Um, best watch out, I don't marry you? Like, that's a threat, first of all.

Marriage is very important in these parts green beard what if I beat you up what then this man should be on dateline yeah like ew leave her be she's way out of your league in several ways very strange behavior

he's just very for a noble match I'm just saying a noble match he does not make you could get a better matrilineal marriage for her besides green beard yeah that's all hashtag unsafe so that night lemon gendry play at tiles with their host while tom sings a song about big belly ben the high septons goose and guy lets aria play with his longbow, but she can't handle its size. What the fuck is going on here?

He says maybe at Riverrun he can make her one. What the fuck is going on in this life? You're the one that made it that way. I didn't think it was that way, but after coming from the green beer discussion, I was like, what is happening here? I know, I saw that in the notes, and I was like, uh.

It's not like that in the books i'm an and guy enjoyer first and a human being second he was the first minor character i was like obsessed with yeah please elaborate please literally just because of the the guy in the show i just thought he was so charming and like neat i just love the scene when he's like teaching aria how to shoot the bow i'm like he isn't like patronizing her he isn't condescending her he's just literally teaching her how to do it and i also love that when she hears riders in the distance he like takes it from her like to protect her i don't know i just think he's like and i think he's like witty they definitely like merged a bunch of the brotherhood characters into am guy in the show. But I just think he's cool. Also, he won

that tournament and spent it all in a week. Sigma male mindset. I respect that. I mean, that's what drew me to you as a person when I knew that about you. When you would post about it, I was like, who the fuck else likes

Anguy? He rocks. You. So, yeah. Angai was my gateway drug to calm, is what I'm trying to say. Yeah, so I respect that. I liked that he's like, isn't he like a little redhead too? Yeah, he's a little ginger. He's just a little like stocky ginger,

and he's like, I'm just like shooting arrows, bro. I'm shooting arrows, bro. I'm shooting arrows. Exactly. He's like, in Dorne, I used to eat this great ass food yeah and then i like the geographical nature of it because yeah something interesting is like you have barrick who's a marcher lord yes right and he's engaged to illyria dane a long time ago i wrote some mini theory that like they probably got engaged because the marcher lords are always fighting with the dornish yeah especially with the stone Dornish,

especially through the Ironwoods area right there. That's an easy bloop, we're here to fight through the stone way. So I just could see where that would broker a good peace to make sure that they keep the Marcher Lords under wraps, no Vulture King shit going on. I think it all makes sense. I think that's where you get why Illyria and him were engaged Illyria being the youngest

daughter of the Danes during the rebellion era, Azshara's younger sister, she was engaged probably around like four to like eight for those of you listening at home that aren't keeping up with the Dane lore, you know I expect more of you but I think you can do it I think you all can do it

but yeah that's who barrick was engaged to that we'll get into throughout the episodes in the future but i love that like on guy being from dorn that makes sense why he's in that group that makes sense why he would come and like maybe join barrick like why he would have explored dorn i don't know i like the geographical finding the people from the area supporting the cause and understanding it. Yeah. Like, Lawnmouth, Stormlands, like, also would support Dondarrion. Yup. I mean Lemoncloak.

House Lemoncloak. Yeah. I like what you're saying about also why why Anguy stood out to you and why you like him so much. It actually makes me think that it's because he's got kind of John vibes. He's like, maybe you just need a smaller bow.

We'll just make a bow that fits you. Which I don't think we have time for in this series. But whatever. Sorry, Arya. You're just not going to get to put any stats into, I don't know. Ranged weapons. Learning. Yeah, into ranged weapons.

You just don't specialize in it. I'm sorry. I think she'd be great at it. Maybe with the right size. But we weapons you just don't specialize in it i'm sorry i think she'd be great at it maybe with the right size but we just yeah i don't know she's she's she just never it never drops it's never an item drop for her is like me she's got a lot of hobbies yeah she needs to pick some yeah murder needs to move down the list a little is all deprioritize just start no prioritize prioritize like shoot targets so tom overhears this entire conversation and tells them off and he's like if we go to river run it'll be for the ransom not to sit around playing at making bows lord hoster was hanging outlaws before on guy was even shaving

exactly so real he's so young so small and then says, and that son of his, a man who hates music can't be trusted, I always say. Lem says, it's not music he hates. It's you, fool. And we get this famous backstory here behind the Edmure and Tom of Seven's feud. Edmure once had a woman that was interested enough in him, but he got too drunk and could not perform the duty he wished to perform in the bedroom. And Tom decided to do the right thing, which is to make a song about it. So of course he created the world's biggest banger, the floppy fish. I will link a very

beautiful video for you all. I got to send it to Eliana of one of my good buddies doing his own tom of sevens floppy fish song it's pretty good it's uh from a from a ice and fire con a handful of years ago where he performed it amazing yeah amazing you gotta listen to it though the world's best banger floppy fish bars so it's it's real you'll love it it's got did you watch you watched the first episode or so of insecure right yes yes i'm on season two it's got broken pussy watch you watch the first episode or so of insecure right yes yes i'm on season two it's got broken pussy broken pussy energy yes yes broken pussy jesus christ so good i'm on season two finally i'm very into it nice i need to watch it oh it's good isa ray is i love it everything one of my favorite shows. Issa Rae is everything. Top five. Yeah.

It's just her internal monologue. The whole show is like real. Yeah. It's real. I'll check it out. So Arya doesn't have any clue about fish, right? About floppy fish. She's like, I don't know what this means. Because she's 10.

And she's like, what's the whole ransom thing about? Harwin's like, well, we have needs. Like horses and armor, sword, shield, spears, seeds, all this stuff, you know, seeds, especially winter's coming. And she knows, you know, winter's coming. Those are her words. And then he says, this isn't the first highborn captive we've ransomed, nor will you be the last, basically. She thinks knights were captured and ransomed all the time and sometimes woman too. But what if Rob won't pay their price? She wasn't a famous knight, and kings were supposed to put the realm before their sisters.

And her lady mother, what would she say? Would she still want her back after all the things she'd done? Arya chewed her lip and wondered. Ow. Oh, Arya. Baby girl. Big sad baby girl, no. She makes me so sad um it is not lost on me that in moments like these of relative calm gender thoughts and turmoil begin to creep in for aria we see this a little

bit with the best watch out i don't marry you comment and how she's like i'm gonna be a woman grown soon and with her fears here about her mother not accepting her it is written here that she's worried she won't be accepted due to the things that she's done but i would argue that a big part of it is also like not really the acts themselves but because they aren't befitting of a highborn lady something that aria is acutely aware of part of it is she's like oh i've done bad things but i think a big part of it is also they wouldn't want me doing these things because I'm not a boy. So when her life isn't being threatened and she isn't starving because preservation is priority number one for our bodies, the secondary inner conflict has room to really take over her consciousness.

And we see that more and more and more this chapter. Yeah, the last Catelyn catlin chapter right is literally rob killing lord karstark in a ceremony because he's expected to yes because that's what he's supposed to do as the king yes he's supposed to kill people that betrayed him although they did it because of their hurt their grief and although as they justified well they're the enemy we should be killing the enemy you've been telling us, kill the enemy, Rob had to do it to make the point. So Arya doing it is frowned upon.

I also would argue that a lot of the killings that Arya does, obviously, you know, not great. A child murdering people, bad. Just general disclaimer. Disclaimer, yeah. murdering people bad just general disclaimer disclaimer yeah but i would argue that she has some of the more justifiable killings in the series she kills that little boy because he's like about to tell on her you know the stakes there are huge he would send her to queen cersei if she didn't do that and then also like she kills people at harrenhal to escape like she kills that guard at harrenhal to escape and she worked the jack in to kill these kills people at Harrenhal to escape. Like, she kills that guard at Harrenhal to escape.

And she works with Jaqen to kill these other people at Harrenhal because they're acutely threatening the safety of herself and others. Obviously terrible, but I think that there is more reason to that than Rob killing someone to make a point. And, like, I get why he had to do it. why he had to do it. But when you look at it, like just objectively strip away all the like societal context, I guess killing someone so that they don't kill you is more justifiable than killing someone to make a point. It's the same reason Ned was killed on a stage in front of everybody.

Rob killed Lord Karstark for that same purpose that Ned was killed by Joffrey that someone whispers in his ear and says, if you don't kill him you're not strong and people won't support you anymore i mean it's the same reason in the end uh it's it's the system that has the issue like it's a feature not a bug you know of the system and yeah and i like that you brought back up catalatelyn, right? And Arya's fear of her mother in that way. And like that, there's a lot of tension between them of what Catelyn expected her daughters to be, just like the expectations that were set upon Catelyn and what her daughters have

each done. I mean, I can understand that fear completely. It would be scary to live up to that. That is a, that's a lot. Yeah, I really like what you said of it's not necessarily that i mean yes it is bad and as you said like it is bad for kids to kill people but like it's not necessarily seen as inherently bad all the time in westerosi society depending like and the gendered aspect it makes me think of this essay that noah who joined us

for the sam tarley love chapters yes wrote of um called don't look away and the performance of like violence as being part of westerosi masculinity of saying you know like uh one of the lines is like this violence is predicated on the enforcing of a masculinist and classist paradigm of war that results in authorly gendered horror and it speaks to i think you used the term earlier regarding barrick and what's happening you know with barrick as like an abomination but like this idea i'm thinking of like these gendered outlaws and people might see, you know, is Arya feeling that people would see her as an abomination for crossing those lines? No, exactly. How like goes to high heart that we meet in this chapter is kind of an abomination for that in some ways, right?

Like being like between the lines in a way, like a lot of the people that Arya meets are othered in certain ways. Yeah, that being a, you know, maybe child of the people that Arya meets are othered in certain ways yeah that being a you know maybe child of the forest I mean the way that Tyrion's character is seen as like an abomination by like his family and much of society because of his body but also beyond that the ghost

of Hyrule also being like whoa can't believe we're listening to old women crones how dare anyone be like older irl but yeah right um new crones live now in your area hot hot hot crones 1-800 call the seven it sounds like a food like hot scones don't bring food up i i'm hungry i don't do it same there's also like i don't know aria wondering if rob ransoming for her it makes me think of like john wondering is rob gonna accept me if i like run away from the night's watch and then go join which is also a

thing you should not do and you know beyond also even the parts of aria wondering she'll be accepted for doing things that aren't befitting of a highborn lady we discussed last chapter how Arya never really gets to feel like herself as Arya of Winterfell I think Arya's not wrong to think that depending on the price of her ransom, her family really just

might not fucking ransom for her and not just because of her actions solely because of being born as a highborn girl slash lady and maybe they because of her actions solely yeah because of being born as like a highborn girl slash lady and maybe maybe they'll accept her but like would they think the cost was worth it considering how rob's like i don't know i just think that price is too high to pay for sanza and maybe even aria if it is a bundle deal which we're really not sure of in that discussion with cat they're like he's like i'm i can't i just can't fucking trade jamie for them i'm sorry

she's not worth enough and so aria is not wrong to think that especially when she's like kings aren't supposed to put kings were supposed to put the realm before their sisters because again exactly what we see rob do arguably what stand is saying he has to do in this book but with his nephew he's like i i'm sorry davos i just got to kill the little boy. It's whatever. I hate my brother anyway, but I love him. And also probably what he's gonna do to his daughter later on. You know, other highborn girl slash lady and maybe considered by some an abomination

also. And then you contrast that with Jon Snow who's like secretly maybe an heir, also maybe a king according to some depending on which reader you speak to and how we're interpreting things. And his literal job description says you don't have sisters anymore and he comes up with a fancy wordplay to be like you guys we have to go save my sister that he doesn't know is not his sister but he thinks it's aria and he's like fuck it i'm gonna risk it all

i'm gonna risk my job i'm gonna risk these people's lives we're gonna go get my sister back I'm going to risk my job. I'm going to risk these people's lives. We're going to go get my sister back, even though maybe she's married, but not, I don't know. And like,

it really shows no wonder Arya loves Jon so much, because if Jon were the king making the decision, do we ransom whatever for Arya? He'd be like, fuck yeah. Yeah. Give it all. And yeah, that's true.

We know that to be true. Literally twice. Actually multiple times. And I think that's true we know that to be true literally twice actually multiple times and i think that's the thing like you know she's got this story that's this universal story of what it means to be a child of wondering am i going to be loved am i going to be accepted this desire for unconditional love especially which i think is a big theme that the story is exploring. It's something that I think comes up a lot in Tyrion's storyline, especially. And it's interesting because, you know, if you think about it, this war really kind of started because his dad was like, I'm not going to let him be captive.

Fuck that. Which surprised Tyrion a little bit, but turns out it wasn't because of unconditional love. The love is very conditional, as we see at the end of this book. Yeah, because poor Tyr tyrian it's like it was for the image it's all for the image might i also just add sansa stark is worth one million jamie lannisters and i i say this affectionately um i'm a jamie enjoyer but sansa objected i would trade him 1000 times over and again for sansa yeah i think

that's the choice that rob should have made i get it like i get why he didn't but it's still like come on because men masculinity like should have been like we have to keep him and then car start being like we got to kill him we can't trade him, and he's like, I can't do it. Glory. Poor Rob. You know, I'm gonna clip that and listen to it every night before bed, what you just said, Car. I really enjoyed it. Thank you. She's worth a million, Jamie Lannisters. It's just...

Oof. Somewhere is... Someone is really mad at me out there somewhere. And that's how you know you're doing something great, you know? That's how you know you've stumbled upon greatness. And I't think so. You know? That's how you know you've stumbled upon greatness. And I love Jamie. I get it. Yeah. It's just... Yeah. You know? I think people

who like Jamie even acknowledge that that was kind of shitty. Yeah. I like Jamie... Want to trade for your sister. I like Jamie in the way that I want to break his nose. And I want to steal his lunchge money oh yeah put him in a locker if you could but you can't so you just try anyway yeah he would probably do that

to you actually or me or eliana that's fair yeah damn well you know they ride to high heart the next day it's a lofty hill with a beautiful ring of huge pale stumps around it. A circle of what was once a mighty, mighty circle of weirwoods. Arya and Gendry count 31 stumps. It's a lot of fucking mana just sitting on the ground. Some are wide, right? Some are so wide they could sleep on them. Oh, that's gonna happen to someone's crazy with a

dream or two but this is described it's very similar to like the fist of the first man the ring you're right it is i can't explain my mind i was just thinking of baskin robbins because they said 31 stomps i was like what does 31 mean i was like 31 flavors that's it that's all i had for for everyone maybe there will be 31 weirwood dreams in all of a song of well i mean probably less but that'd be cool 531 flavors of dream dreams a minute oh rainbow sherbert dream yeah daiquiri ice cream Rainbow Sherbert Dream. Yeah. Daiquiri Ice Cream Dream. Hire her. Hire. Actually, naming the ice creams would be such a fun job.

Yeah, that would rock. I would. I would love that shit. I think the pressure would get to me. Rocky Road Dream. Yeah, hire me. CV it. We have a passage about High Heart.

High Heart had been sacred to the children of the forest, Tom Sevenstrings told her, and some of their magic lingered here still. No harm can ever come to those as sleep here, the singer said. Arya thought that must be true. The hill was so high and the surrounding land so flat that no enemy could approach unseen. I do think it's funny that Arya thinks that this place is very safe, difficult to attack, not because of any spiritual or magical beliefs, which we, as readers, are like, of course, the Weirwoods, it's magical, you can't get in there. But she's

thinking about it from a very practical terrain analysis. She's seeing. She's seeing. Yes. Yes, Cereal would be very proud. She's learning. She's probably his best pupil. Yeah, maybe. That's true.

Dang. It's like in BG3 where, you know, Baldur's Gate in general, as a rogue, you can see all the areas. Exactly. You can be seen. Like detective mode, you know? Yeah. you know yeah the small folk shunned the place claiming it was haunted by the ghosts of the children of the forest who died when the andal king eric the kingslayer cut down their grove so of course jamie the kingslayer is on the run right now burning down the riverlands they all think quote unquote even though he's just like on the run i'll give him that we know he's just

running around you know scared getting his hand cut off soon falling in love chop chop yeah i find this eric character to be pretty interesting i wonder if we'll get more about him you know we know that in what he fought like the children of the forest teamed up with the first men to protect this grove but then fell to eric's forces and also like world of vice and fire has this line of archmaester periston who suggested that eric might in fact be a corruption of an andal title and not a name at all periston goes further in his a consideration on history suggesting this nameless andal chieftain had cut down the trees at the behest of a rival of the river king who used the andals as sellswords

and i'm like so that makes me wonder a lot of things is eric even an andal or like how did he get that title if it is just a title like which kin did he say why is he called the kin because we literally are not given any reason like who who was who were they who were they like was it a sibling who stood against his people to protect the grove and like the children of the forest and the first man or like was it eric was eric the a first man who like turned because of ambition or something else against his people like at the behest of the river king and like did he even know if he can slayed was like all an accident like kind of ish with first dunkin egg was he like oh god it's my kin and i don't know

especially because there's like a lot of Kinslayer stuff coming up in this book with, again, you know, Santa's trying to do weird shit and Tyrion killing his dad, who's doing a weird shit. And yeah. There's something there, like almost related to the North Men that are doing shit in Rob's name right

now. Whether it's the Roos misinformation campaign that's begun or the Karstark misinformation campaign that's begun or the car start misinformation campaign like there's something kind of relatable there right that you have like the that might not have even been his name or it might not have even been him yeah maybe someone else did it uh there's something going on there that i think is kind of neat that george is tying in almost do you think we'll get more about eric if anything maybe we'll get a disambiguation in like uh in fire and blood part two or something but i don't know i don't know that we'll hear more

necessarily we might hear something in t wow yeah but i don't really think george is linking every single background thing because you know he's just uh creating that rich tapestry as he goes yeah it's just vibes kinslaying things setting you up to be like oh kinslaying interesting so it's the front of your mind themes big themes yeah yeah themes and also i don't know something about it and then being like remember winterfell crypts everyone and then it makes me again think of like john again especially with the high hearts though i know you'll talk more about that aria is not afraid Not afraid by no ghosts. Do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do- wow thrones but even though she doesn't believe in ghosts she is very majorly creeped out that night and the wind tears her bedsheet off of her into the bushes and she finds the men all talking to a very short a very short older woman wrinkled and stooped who leans on a gnarled

black cane and maybe all shrink as we get older there she is even you chloe i won't carm knows carm's met me yeah you're very you're very tall you were about to say like because fuck it's okay if you say i'm just kidding um i think that the old gods wanted aria to hear this conversation because the ghost of high heart is like the old gods won't let me sleep so i'm awake and aria is like oh the wind just blew the blanket off of me so i just woke up i think that the old gods did that also might i just add that that is the worst feeling in the world being woken up by the blanket going away my cat does that to me often no yeah my husband does it once in a while it's bad yeah we gotta take him out back i don't know

cats could do that does like does your cat just like yank the hole yeah she'll just like blink it off dig it off she likes to burrow so she'll like just like pull it away to like use it yeah good for her yeah she lived outside for a while so she's a little odd and this is like major tinfoil and just like kind of on a whim i'm thinking this i wonder if perhaps aria overhearing this prophecy partially influences her like deep in her subconscious when she's working into nymeria to save her mother's corpse from the trident not really but like it could be cool because stoneheart is heavily foreshadowed in this prophecy and aria does overhear it and there must be some significance to the old gods awakening her to overhear this

other than for the plot i love that because mana is streaming all around us like you are in a sacred ass place this is like the skeletons of trees live here. Of magical trees. 31 of them. That's huge. That's a lot, right? Like she only has ever around one, whether she's in like a little village or at home. Winterfell only has one. Yeah, it's true. There's a lot of power here. I like that idea. We get like the entire passage of the prophecy this is you know we did an episode a very long time ago ages ago on patreon.com

slash girls gone canon c-a-n-o-n uh for patrons of the stranger tier and up on prophecies and seers and a bunch of other stuff I recommend it I think because it's I barely remember it but the stuff I I recommend it, I think, because I barely remember it, but the stuff I remember from it, I looked back recently,

because I was like, I know we did it, and I listened to it a bit, and re-read it, and we do talk a little bit about some of these very solid prophecies, right? Because there's a little gray line of stuff that seems mystical and stuff that's straight-up prophecy, and this is like, she looks at you, eyes red red as hell and she's like this is a prophecy i'm telling you and it's very cryptic so i just remember you telling me about this episode and maybe like we what yeah we did this episode it was nuts it was crazy we were

there that was a good one in fact i think i edited it maybe that's why because i feel like every episode you edit you put part of your soul into a little. So you have to remember it. But I think I edited this one, so maybe that's why it's not embedded into you. But it was there. Oh, it was there. Also, it was ages ago. It was a good one.

Thank you. My god. I think it was like 2019. I'm glad to hear that. To the backlogs. Jesus. The backlogs. The catacomb catalogs.

Catalan comb. The catalan combs. The catalan combs. I dreamt I saw a shadow with a burning heart butchering a golden stag eye. I dreamt of a man without a face waiting on a bridge that swayed and swung. On his shoulder perched a drowned crow with seaweed hanging from his wings. I dreamt of a roaring river and a woman that was a fish. Dead she drifted with red tears on her cheeks, But when her eyes did open, oh, I woke from terror. All this I dreamt, and more.

Do you have gifts for me to pay for my dreams? Amazing, amazing. Bafta, Bafta. Thank you. I'm gonna get my water real quick so you know you got i deserve water for that one but continue this prophecy is like pretty straightforward i mean okay so i wrote in the notes here that it's a very first-time reader friendly prophecy

but when i like thought about that for like two more seconds i realized that most of this hasn't happened yet so i guess it probably isn't first time reader friendly, but the imagery is very clear. Like it's not as mystical and like confusing as some of the other prophecies. Pretty straightforward. Stannis killing Renly, Jaqen killing Baelon on Euron's orders, and then Catelyn's corpse floating in the Trident, so on so forth. Yeah. And I like i like that you know it foreshadows a little of what we're gonna get in a second i guess it tells you like you can believe this person because yeah they tell you the yeah it's killing renly part because that did happen already prior and like not everyone knows that there was like witchcraft involved in there they're just like

i don't know weird things were happening and then yeah faceless men killing valen and crow's eye sighting i do like that it's a very like abc here's your prophecy very cut and dry like uh you think back to bran having that first vision when he sees his sisters and he's like are you holding your secrets in her heart and sansa crying herself to bed at night sorry I didn't mean to get real sad but I started getting sad as I said it I was like oh god what did I do yeah but uh those are very

basic like it's nice when George gives us a little soft paw into it before he gets crazy where you have like House of the Undying has some clarity but then some stuff in between you're like nice g, gnarly, just eating Westeros alive

shit. Good, good. I wonder if when Wins comes out, that prophecy is gonna seem really run-of-the-mill to us, the way that this seems pretty run-of-the-mill to us right now. I wonder if maybe something will happen in Wins where we're like,

oh, that exactly fits this prophecy that we were all confused about. I feel like that could happen with a lot of things in Winds, but first Winds has to happen. You lost me at thinking about Winds. I'm a truther. I think about Winds a lot. I think we're going to get it. Oh, I think we are too. I think we're going to it oh I think we are too I think we're gonna get the wins a winner and fire and blood part 2

have a nice day everyone 11 more Duncan Agnew villas and the grey Alice second grey Alice movie not short story Lam doesn't appreciate all these dreams by the way I just wanna bring Richard

of the wins? yeah of wins no of the way. I just want to bring Richard- Of the wins? Yeah, of wins. No, of the ghost of High Heart. I want to bring Richie Rich back into it, you know? Richie Lawnmouth. He's so nice. Such a nice boy down the lane. He doesn't appreciate the dreams.

He tells her his own from last night, and he says, I was kissing a tavern wench that I used to know. And she tells him, well, that girl's dead. Only worms kiss her now. Ooh, harsh. Does anyone have any info or like theories on who this tavern wench is? I am so beyond curious. Like, I know Lem's identity is a big question, but I would like to know who this woman is.

I agree. I like to know about the girls that men kiss too i like to get their numbers personally but it never happens for me but i don't know about this one i don't know but i i don't think i don't know i think but you're right though like it's a i think it's a nod to his identity more than anything right that he used to kiss lol a tavern wench lol the night of kisses i don't know i think it like most importantly is saying he's had a past life focus on his past life unfortunately the tavern wench falls uh with hagan's daughter with no name you know always gonna riot for that but no name no name i yeah

i really am he'll he'll name every single male character in this series, but when it comes to Ned Stark's mom for a while, he was like, um, just Lady Stark. He's like, what if it's like Rihanna, but with R's? I respect that. It's world building. In a way. Kimbra, tavern wench he used to know. Now you're just a tavern wench I used to know now you're just a tavern wench i used to know somebody

and yeah so that leads into the ghost of high heart demanding a song from thomas sevens and he plays it for her and honestly i don't know why anyone was like withholding like payment this is like a pretty good deal especially like in this economy right now like everyone's starving as you pointed out people are like fucking taking boobs off statues and so like why would you not just pay with a song i'm always saying this at stores and they don't agree with me you're always saying no that was a valid transaction they paid for the car i gave you my mixtape please like back from the walking dead oh my god um yeah this is a great currency when you have nothing else to give although i will say like the idea of like rocker slash musician is not often looked at

as like an entrepreneur in the way that you're looking at Eliana. You know, many people look at them as mooches, hanger-ons, annoying. But I think it's like a walking, singing historian in a way, as we've discussed tonight. And I think it's important because of that. It's an important POV. Although at the same time, very soon, Merillion is a little douchebag, but he doesn't really deserve his pain that he gets, but he's a douchebag. Bards are a valid and powerful class. Yeah, just most of them are dumb. You don't need the intelligence stat.

Okay. Yeah, bards are funny. A lot of himbos in that one. All right. So the singer played for her. all right so the singer played for her so soft and sad that aria only heard snatches of the words though the tune was half familiar sanza would know it i bet her sister had known all the songs and she could even play a little and sing so sweetly all i could ever do was shout the words. Imagine someone shouting Jenny's song. Yes.

It's a banger. I'm frustrated and I know I'm frustrated that we don't get any lyrics. Just give us one or two of the lines. We're just edging. Yeah. Yeah. There's actually something

interesting that George said in a So Spake martin somebody asked him you know like will we get more and this was before the epilogue and storm of swords because we do get in the epilogue the one lyric that we have which was what we based an entire song around congratulations dnd for your last accomplishments right uh it was a pretty good song i mean pins could drop right like we all were like tears and eyes this was the uh it was a pretty good song i mean pins could drop right like we all were like tears and eyes this was the episode it was yeah night of the seven kingdoms i think is probably one of the superior episodes of all time showing that there could still be a love song out there

for ice ice and fire uh but george said back in 2000 i did write a few verses but they were cut i wanted that particular song to be very haunting and evocative but i don't think that i quite achieved that which is kind of ironic because it's like that's what happens when you build something up like that like of course how could you ever achieve that it's better when it's left unsaid and uh i think by omission and we'll talk a little bit more about this later on in the episode but i think by omission, and we'll talk a little bit more about this later on in the episode, but I think by omission, it becomes so powerful as a symbol on its own. I agree. I just also would have loved to get a little lyric, but symbol. Yes.

Yeah, but it's like true. This is like one of like the songs ever in Westeros. Is George like bound now to use the version that D&D wrote since it was such a banger? I don't think so. Do you think he could write one better was such a banger. I don't think so. Do you think you could write one better? I don't know. I don't know. It was pretty good. Anyway, the next morning, the woman is gone and Arya asks Tom if the Children of the Forest still lives here.

And so he laughs and tells her, oh, okay, so you saw her. You saw Ghost of High Heart, who is an old woman with dwarfism, evil-eyed, but she knows things. That's kind of woman with dwarfism evil-eyed but she knows things it's kind of mean to say evil-eyed um anyways sometimes she'll even tell you them and he says that she likes a song that he can play it's always the same sad song but he knows other ones that are just as good he just really wishes she would request different things

big joe para energy like rainera and house of the dragon making that one singer just sing over and over and over again oh yeah that's right again again again sam what else are you good for what else you're good for poor samwell yeah it's also so real as somebody who gets called out and there's Spotify wrapped annually by Spotify for listening to the same song over and over again I have hyper fixations I have needs okay and Jenny's song I could see that being the need especially when that's I mean in context it's all she has left she went to court with Jenny and she came back and now she has nothing because everything she had was gone like now she's back to her hollowed hill with cut down weirwoods just stumps reminding her of ghosts i mean

maybe every night when no one's there ghosts dance on those stumps you don't know yeah it's like you were saying earlier this episode karm of like this is this is a way of bringing Jenny back to life. This is immortalizing Jenny for her. Yeah, it is. And like, Tom points out, no, she's not really a ghost, because ghosts don't complain of joint pain. So I do think it's kind of ironic then that she's called like the ghost of High Heart. But I don't know, I kind of see her then she's like Ned, you know, she's not the ghost. She's's haunted by ghosts and i think that ties in well with the opening of this chapter of lord leicester losing his loved ones and you know there's there's no sorrow and longing for him because he's just forgotten unlike with ned and the ghost of high

heart but also does that mean he's not even fully here then if he's living without those painful memories and then it like raises these questions that i think go throughout the series also of But also, does that mean he's not even fully here then if he's living without those painful memories? And then it like raises these questions that I think go throughout the series also of how does pain become incorporated and part of the self? How does it shape the self? Damn. Yeah, that's a great question. Big sad. Yeah.

Never wanted to leave. Are we not? Oh, okay. Thought we were all coming in on the third there. Never wanted to leave. That was like? Oh, okay. Thought we were all coming in on the third there. Never wanted to leave. That was like one of my most played songs that year. Yeah. And that mother did it.

I know. Oh my God. That was so. Yeah, that's right. They had our asses. They had our fucking asses. Like, you're going to put flow on that? My God.

My God. Anyways. She knew exactly what to do. Yeah. Yeah. She put on that flower crown and my god she danced in the halls of the kings that were gone.

With the ghosts. There's your clue like we were talking about before the podcast of board games and clue. In the hall. Right. With the ghosts. Alright listen so the real reason they went to this place was not

to receive these fancy prophecies necessarily but to find the scent, the trail to Thoros and Beric. Because Beric moves a lot. You know, he's kind of like a Riverlands influencer. He doesn't really tell them their plans. No one can betray him that way. But there are hundreds,

there are hundreds, maybe thousands that are sworn to him now they're scattered around in bands ready to strike in a dozen places at once when they're given the word and if they're captured and tortured they won't be able to reveal barracks location which is important literally genius of them i love the brotherhood yeah they've got a lot of good ideas yeah like feeding people oh yeah that's like that's that's not even top five i know jesus no but they do have yes yeah they've got a they've got a lot of good smart ideas um and i'm not gonna dig too far into this but i i wonder if some of the their portrayal is lightly drawing

inspiration from the guerrilla warfare tactics of like the Viet Cong but also I mean not even just that like guerrilla warfare in general I just like bring that one up because I know that George was a conscientious objector to the Vietnam war and I am not a war historian so please do not I don't know hold me to any of these things but in regards to those tactics for blending in with civilians and you know know, knowing the land better, gaining initial support amongst the people and the use of confusing information regarding location. Misinformation. I also would comment that, like, something fun George does is all of the fun groups get the guerrilla warfare and everyone else is like, it's dishonorable. And I'm like, but all the fun people do it right

like the crannog men use guerrilla warfare because they need that as an advantage because you know they have to use their advantages against their people of how they're able to operate and defend themselves and then the dornish they do it and then the brotherhood they do it like guerrilla warfare is often used in westeros by the more fun people it's the fun in westeros yes in westeros not in the east yeah because i think in essos like his whole like commentary and when they will get to these like starts falling apart when he uses it as the sons of the harpy yes that's that sense i'm not you do not have to hand it to the sons of the harpy i have never said that thank you very much but no no no no she has not in westeros as i emptied right not preempted but i did empt in westeros the fun

people use that the fun peoples like the crayon egg men right they are fun they are fun they are so neat i just think they're neat be more fun yeah if we saw that little joe jen oh little guy he's so pulpy and digestible full of fiber you know you know what he's had some of corn husks eliana he's pasty they're not corn psyllium psyllium i don't know what they are. Caps or something. Whatever. We're of an age, I'm of an age where fiber is important to my digestive systems. Everyone could have more fiber, I think.

I think that's just what happens when you turn 22, you know? Yes. When you turn 22, that's what happens. I mean, I don't know about you, but Eliana's 22. I thought you were going to mean, I don't know about you, but Eliana's 22. I thought you were going to say, I don't know about you, but I'm feeling 22. That was the joke. Oh. But it was about you and stuff.

Anyways, so Harwin asks Arya if she understands what the term being questioned means. And she's like, oh, yes, I know all sorts about questioning. Because I know Tickler, Polliver, and Wrath. And they're like, who's that? means and she's like oh yes i know all sorts about questioning because i know tickler palaver and rath and they're like who's that and she says is there gold hidden in the village he would always begin silver gems is there food where is lord beric which of you village folk helped him where did he go how many men did he have with him? How many knights? How many bowmen? How many were horsed? How are they armed? How many wounded? Where did they go, did you say? Just thinking of it, she could hear the shrieks again, and smell the stench of blood and shit

and burning flesh. He would always ask the same questions, she told the outlaws solemnly, but he changed the tickling every day. No child should be made to suffer that, Harwin said when she was done. Basta. I'm so glad you're here today. Egot. Thank you.

Give him the Egot. My degree. My god. So good. Jesus. That was beautiful. Thank you for that, whatever that like, almost like really shitty, like somewhat cockney English, like, I'm a high lord and I'm sick of doing things.

Thank you. That was... Oh my gosh. I saw the vision and I just want you to know that I respect the art. Thank you. I respected it. Thank you. I think that made the whole episode.

We could just release that. I worked in the mines. I mean, you put in too much work. Day and night over a hot voice stove. Literally. Well, more to come. More to come. Oh my god.

Yeah, that's, um, Arya recants that, gives it to him straight, says this is what happened. Yeah, she had that ready. It's good. Yeah. Yeah. She, like, she had that queued up. Yeah. Because if it's happening to Ned stark's daughter it could happen to anyone

yeah really though also yeah like ow i love her poor baby i also kind of love that quote a lot like yeah i know it's cheesy but like i just love the progression of how it comes back and how he uses it and like the the rhythm there's like a good rhythm and cadence to like when it finally comes back and when she stabs him and like, it's great because it's just been dribbled back in several times, several times. And it's just a great resolve. Could be a song.

We could remix. We could, that could be your mixtape that you pay for things with. Yeah. We'll add a beat. Maybe. I'm not a DJ. Slay. we'll add a beat maybe I'm not a DJ slay

so half of the mountain's men died at the stone mill and Harwin says perhaps the tickler is one of those dead men but Eddard had sent them all to bring the king's justice to Gregor and Beric plans to make good on that mission so I have a few things to say about this little section

Beric says that he plans to end the war this way, which is surprisingly naive to me. He must know that, surely he must know, that another Gregor would simply take his place. And I also kind of wanted to point out that Harwin promises Arya that the men that hurt her have paid with their lives. This is like his first instinct to comfort her with. And I think this really illustrates that the Brotherhood didn't need Stoneheart to become a cold, vengeance-motivated, deadly band of outlaws. That ideology was like always present. And Stoneheart being there just kind of brought it to the surface. That's a great point. I really like that observation. Yeah, I mean, that's why it's a good fit in Arya's storyline, right? Being like, well, you know, death, vengeance, that's the same as justice, right? Right, like it's not the same, but it is in some ways. Spicy.

Indeed, very spicy. But you're right, it is kind of naive. Like, as we see, Gregor does die, and I don't know, war keeps fucking happening. Even Tywin dies, and like, war know work keeps fucking happening even tywin dies and like work is still like fucking happening thank fucking god though yeah kill that bitch yeah yeah it is naive though i like that you called out the naivety because like i mean at the same time i guess like the other the other options haven't been working either. No, certainly not. I mean, Beric's like, what, 19? And he's died seven times.

And so he's lost a lot of his memories and other stuff. He's effectively 10 years old. That's fair, yeah. Like in mental. I mean, yeah, I dated an ex-football player and he had a lot of concussions and it was pretty bad. So I could see that. And his led to a lot of anger issues.

This one led to like a weird religious like i'm being reborn thing but uh i will say there's something in that like at least they do recognize their limited power and scope of power and they do what as we've pointed out the the highborns aren't doing right they're at least trying to keep people fed on the ground they're at least trying to give relief and aid to the people on the ground that can't go out and seek it for themselves. And while they become unrealistic and have a big rift come, a big split comes in the group,

I mean, it's probably due to those dueling ideologies in a way. Yeah. So a long day's ride later, they arrive at the great Oaken Keep, Acorn Hall. Its master is away fighting under Lord Vance, but his lady wife is a friend of Tom's and welcomes them in. Arya rides beside Ongai most of the way, who tells her droll tales of the Dornish marches, and is the closest in age to her besides Gendry. Arya knows though that he's only really staying close to make sure she doesn't run away.

Lady Smallwood welcomes them, chastising them for dragging a young girl through the war, let alone a high-born girl. Lady Smallwood makes it her mission to have Arya bathed, taken out of this Bolton uniform and put into a much nicer girl clothing. After a couple hours, Arya is squeaky clean and dressed in brown wool stockings a linen

shift and a light green gown embroidered with acorns this process is described by aria is feeling like she's being flayed and it kind of shows the violence of being forced to present female and having her more like masculine identity stripped away like skin so i just thought that was interesting it's like the perfect dramatic irony considering what she was wearing that's such a great call out that like she describes it as being flayed although the people on her sigil do flaying and she would find that horrendous but she feels so much more comfort in that yeah in that outfit yeah and was i don't know given like more like freedom of movement autonomy yeah way more autonomy she didn't have to hide that she was killing people yeah could just do

it openly for fun now she can't even save herself because she has to go be a doll sad yes lady smallwood tells her about her great aunt who serves as a septa in a motherhouse, and that her own daughter, Corellon, had been sent there to avoid the war. She asks if Arya likes to dance, and instead Arya says, I prefer needlework, hahaha. When Lady Smallwood says it's a restful activity, Arya sends a bunch of winking emojis and is like, not the way I do it. The gods gift each of us our little gifts and talents and it is meant for us to use them my aunt always says any act can be a prayer if done as well as we are

able isn't that a lovely thought remember that the next time you do your needlework says lady smallwood oh it's such a like that quote makes me feel so many things it's just such a like accepting way of looking at things anything can be prayer as long as you're putting your love into it which is like kind of the essence of i mean i'm not not like super religious so i can't really speak to this but it from my interpretation that seems like what prayer is about like just putting your soul into it and i just think it's like cool that she says that i like her yeah it's it's acknowledging the meditative you know people come to things in different ways spirituality will be a little different for people individually it is interesting

though that that she uses the term prayer though considering that aria does have that prayer. Death prayer. Death prayer. Arya says she lost her needle, and Lady Smallwood says they must all make do the best they can in these times. And Lady Smallwood calls her a proper young lady now, and Arya thinks, I'm not. I'm a wolf. I just think this is such a little trans boy thing to say.

Testosterone would have saved him, et cetera, et cetera. It's just so cute. Like I'm not a girl. I'm a, I'm a wolf. It's got very,

like, it's not a phase mom at all. Literally. Yeah. Literally. Actually. Yeah. It's not a phase because it's a life bond.

Cause I'm a warg. Low key. Yeah. I love that. Especially because i'm like i also i love this like ignorance from lady smallwigs it's very blissful in a way it's very sweet and it is very like she means it out of wholeheartedness you know she does not mean any ill and she's like finally she like comes to her and she's like look i know you're obviously a highborn very important i don't know who you are god bless you and she's like i can keep you safe for now can't do it forever i have too few men to hold these walls but i hope i can keep you safe which is very kind it's the nicest honestly a woman's been to aria in a while now that I say it out loud. Yeah. Yeah, actually.

Not a lot of positive female figures, even going back to King's Landing. What do you mean? Septa Mordain rocked. Drunk and asleep, just like me. We're all here like, fire Septa Mordain. I was slash J. Let her retire, is all I'm saying.

Yeah. Early. Or late. Maybe late all I'm saying. Yeah. Early or late. Maybe late. It feels late. Yeah. Lady Smallwood gets her out to dinner and dinner served. It's plain, but it's filling. Mutton, mushrooms, brown bread, peas pudding, and baked apples with yellow cheese because

we're a food podcast first and an A-SWAP podcast second. I don't know if anybody out here also listens to alt schwift x and gletus's podcasts they do live streams where they like do tier rankings of every single food description in the song of ice and fire and they get into it like they ranked like the horse heart the denaris ate they ranked like the the wine that ed describes where his brother died in the wine casket like they ranked that as a food description like they go

in but I just wanted to pay homage to them they I think they put this in B tier if I remember correctly I very much so think that Gleetus has some very wonderful content this is like my plea that we should be collaborating with Gleetus someday like it's my ultimate dream because they has some very wonderful content. This is like my plea that we should be collaborating with Lita someday.

Like it's my ultimate dream because they, uh, they're fun. I feel like they have the great energy and food tier rankings. I love that. I really love that. It's amazing. There's like 10 hours of content.

I think it's amazing. Brown food. That's what we're into. So yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Mutton. Yeah.

Maybe I think b does sound like a good you know it's like it sounds pretty good but like not best foods in the series i think b tier makes sense well the true dessert is that gendry is laughing his ass off at aria being dressed like a proper lady he's like oh ha ha ha ha i can't believe this is happening i've never seen you look like one of these. What is going on? After dinner, Greenbeard asks for word of Lord Beric. And we hear that they were here a fortnight ago driving sheep, which is a Jesus reference, right?

Shepherding sheep. Shepherding sheep around. Very Jesus-y. Jesus wept. George loves leaning on that thing from Christianity when talking about religious figures throughout World of Ice and Fires in general. Shepherds. History. Lem jokes that someone

could make a song about that and Tom plucks his wood harp which sets Lady Smallwood to being annoyed that he's out here fucking maids in the Riverlands with his harp not like that. She says that they'll be calling him Tom of Seven Sons soon enough. And Tom's like linds with his harp not like that she says that they'll be calling him tom of seven sons soon enough and tom's like we passed seven many many years ago fine boys they are voices sweet as

nightingales oh he's got a whole choir it's nick cannon oh my god nick gone cannon shots fired nick gone cannon oh no he's not that's from our men gone cannon era that's from 2023's men gone cannon era um tom is a slut i kind of respect his hustle like not just but i'm like thomas seven streams i didn't i don't think i was familiar with your game before i literally yeah and i apologize he's like yeah i apologize he's like a 50 year old foxy silver haired foxy man he's too charismatic for his own good he goes around strumming chords singing songs like i see the blueprint okay i would Blueprint. Okay. I would too. Hmm. Hmm. Now, all of that said, I will come back to this reference here. There's a line.

The Riverlands are full of maids you've pleased, all drinking Tansy tea. Oh. This was a great reference to the eagle-eyed readers to Tansy, the herb that is used in the aborificent that is given to Liza that she, you know, uses when she's prego with little finger. It's not great. Cat one, Lord Hoster's eyes opened. Tansy, he husked in a voice thick with pain. Cat two, so the chapter right after Arya two, her father was growing weaker, more delirious with each passing day, waking only to mutter Tansy and beg forgiveness. So here in Arya 4, we have a reference to Tansy T, again, mask disguised by Arya and being 10. She does not think anything of it. And Arya 5, we meet red-haired Tansy at the inn and it all leads up to that reveal in sansa seven in a storm of swords where liza shrieks as once shrieked by lady gwyn on our podcast a very epic moment

i would have given you a son too but they murdered him with moon tea with tansy mint and wormwood a spoon of honey and a drop of penny royal it. It wasn't me. I never knew. I only drink what father gave me. So the Riverlands are gearing up for a big reveal in this book. Yes. I am curious about how Tansy T works because in House of the Dragon, a few characters get it. Like Rhaenyra gets Tansy T.

I don't know if she drinks it but she has many children i think i saw someone online saying that maybe it's because the grand maester brewed it specifically and they didn't have quite as much of like a resource in river run or like maybe like the way that the small folk make it they aren't able to like get as high quality ingredients so it doesn't work as well i'm not sure but i just thought it was interesting this like kind of like ruined elisa's fertility but rainiera drank it and she was able to have kids after i think it depends on the body too right i guess like true especially because she was so young yeah yeah and i don't think george has really gardened all of this necessarily because because I think back to like Asha, right?

Asha takes it after her hookup with Carl, and she talks about it pretty openly that she'd just take Moontea. It's a very casual thing. And I think it just really depends. You look at some of the more religious folk when it comes to King's Landing, and not just religious, but culturally, right? Like it's frowned upon. In the Faith of the Seven, you you know your job is to birth children for your partner so i can see where it's a little more harried but i think that liza just had issues with fertility in general which can vary from birthing person to birthing person you know because you

look at i think about that but then you look at catalan right who i've played ck3 like i said and catalan just like births out she's just like fertile myrtle. She's just like, here's my new heir. Here's my new heir. Here's my new heir. Whenever I play Crusader Kings 3, which is actually based on the books. So, you know, it's real. It's 100% canon, in my opinion.

Yeah. I'm being sarcastic. Like, I know it's not the same thing, guys. But I will say, like, obviously Catelyn had these children. She had heirs. She had several male heirs for Ned with no issue. I think it just depends on the person. Yeah.

You know? For sure. Tansy was even, I don't know how reliably, but was historically used also as an abortifacient in general, but also other medicinal uses that clearly worked to some extent maybe for people or were effective enough that didn't always maybe have such bad side effects. It could be as you said, the Grand Maester's just better at brewing it. It's also like perhaps this Maester at Riverrun

might not have had as much experience with this, whereas the small folk with the Woods Witches who are typically the ones who would be doing this for a lot of the other small folk women, right? Because, like, if you're a highborn woman, you're expected to, A, not even have sex, B, not be having abortions. Whereas it might be more acceptable amongst, like, the lower classes. And that's something that's carried around within that sort of, like, that community's knowledge. But also, like, I mean, maybe Liza's just, like, allergic, you know, had an allergic reaction to Tansy as well, besides the dosage. Yeah, that makes complete sense. I totally agree.

You know, as you were saying, Chloe, everyone's biology is different, could be just, like, an adverse reaction. Well, I mean, on a linear level, like like if you are a birthing person that has eggs going on like as you age the eggs change they aren't readily available to be right you know inseminated like sometimes you know i mean as you get older the chance is fleeting and changes so like if you have issues you might just not know until you get older and maybe there are complications maybe there aren't also it might have been i think there's a very high likelihood as people pointed out that it was john aaron yeah that he was shooting blanks yes because look at

his past record that too yeah i rather like that you know my feelings on liza my poor baby yeah i think i think that was the whole point they were like well clearly liza's proven to be fertile yeah and then that it was john aaron shooting blanks and um for the most part and like it's more that the tansy was like a really traumatic thing yeah you know like being forced to undergo an abortion is just like yeah pretty bad right pretty bad pretty bad so lady smallwood recommends they look for barrack down at the stony sept and at three penny wood where there's plenty of hunger she tells them she's had less pleasant colors lately a pack of wolves came by thinking

she had jamie lannister hiding there jack be lucky asks what she told them and she said why i said i had sir jamie laying naked in my bed, but I'd left him much too exhausted to come down. A very Catalan answer. One of them had the effrontery to call me a liar, so we saw them off with a few quarrels I believe they made for Black Bottom Bend. She's very sassy, she's very spirited. She lets him have it. We love Lady Smallwood in this house. Arya asks which Northmen came, and Lady Smallwood says, well, they wore black with a badge of a white sun. Arya knows that sigil. Lord Karstark, she thinks. She wonders if they're close, if she could give the outlaws the slip, if she could go meet the Karstarks and go to Riverrun.

Ha ha ha, based on the information you and I know, no, she should not. The men had claimed that Cattle and Stark let Jamie free. Arya is in shock and disbelief at this, and Harwin realizes she's listening. He and Greenbeard send Arya to go play in the yard, and she stalks angrily away. So part of what makes Arya, I think, such a believably written child character

is we see her often hear claims about her family and then react to it with disbelief like sons would never do that or rob wouldn't do john wouldn't do any of those things right and you know rickon and brand wouldn't do that go and die um that was a joke they they didn't die also anyways but this idea that humans are absolute is, it's immature and it's childish, which I think is why that's really well written about her. And also a side note, I do think it's interesting that they claim that cat-freeing Jamie is madness, especially in regards to how madness is presented in this story in regards to gender gender as we've discussed in the past but also i mean you know when it comes to love and and the potential for losing your family i think like any like anything that's human it and illogical right because humans are very illogical that

does kind of fall in the spectrum of madness but yes yes aria your mother would absolutely do that because guess what your mother would absolutely ransom for you interesting are you saying that they wouldn't follow a mad woman oh because then they do well it's very they're like whoa that's madness let's follow her yeah they're like that's the upgrade button that's a great point they really do a 180 on her yeah well i think it comes back to kind of what you and also what low we're kind of saying Karm, like that, you know, the gendered violence of like a woman dressing up in an armor or a woman like becoming a war leader or a woman like, like, I don't know, the power grasp of masculinity and being able to wield that power. Interesting that here they're like, no, she's mad for doing something like that. But then later she's like absolutely mad. And they're like, no, she's our leader doing something like that. But then later she's like absolutely mad. And they're like, no, she's our leader.

I know. It's so funny. Huh? Yeah. They were like that. They're a little confused. I like that. Mad.

More like mad. Cool. She did that. Well, Gendry follows Arya. Gendry follows her. Not Catelyn. Not yet. And Gendry tells Arya there's a sm follows her. Not Catelyn. Not yet. And Gendry tells Arya there's a smithy and is like, do you want to go have a poke around?

So they go. They start talking about Thoros. And Gendry kind of is like, just to clarify, is that the fat, drunk priest from King's Landing? And Arya's like, yes. I don't know him, but I know he was very, you know, a colorful character in Robert's Court. And he was always with know a colorful character in robert's court and he was always with jalabar joe gendry remembers he'd often come to the forge and he would buy cheap ass swords to light on fire in tourneys and tobomat would be like don't light my swords on fire with wildfire

and gendry's like i don't think this guy's gonna remember me on site i think he might by the way the logistics of this sound crazy how do you light a sword with wildfire without like killing everyone in the vicinity including yourself and like the building you're in i would like to know how he does this safely incredible outside right i guess maybe yeah does he just like, bring it with him everywhere? Like, I don't know. I'm very- I need Thoros to let me know what's going on

there, because that's one heck of a trick. And I also- Are you trying to recreate it? Maybe. Could be fun. The sword dipped in wildfire is kind of like a reflection of Stannis' fake Lightbringer to me. These two swords are like individual halves of Lightbringer in a way.

Stannis' sword, LOL, doesn't get destroyed because it's just an illusion. So it comes off as much more magical because the sword doesn't get destroyed but it doesn't emit heat either while thoros's sword lol does emit heat but the medium is consumed neither could truly recapture the splendor of azor ahai's flaming lightbringer both are like hollow cheap recreations of the legendary sword under the name of r'hllor and it's kind of emblematic of how the war of the legendary sword under the name of R'hllor. And it's kind of emblematic of how the War of the Five Kings is a cheap recreation of the conflict between the living and the great other. And yes,

Stannis does go north to fight the walkers, but let's be so serious, he does so to secure his spot on the Iron Throne. I mean, yeah, like, it's... That's all I have to say about that. Yeah, that's, um, you said it better than I ever could. Thank you very much. But even, like, bringing Aemon into this.

Exactly. Like, it's a fake sword. These are fake swords. And it's interesting that they're calling upon the legends in order to become the legends themselves. Mm. Mm. Mm. Carm.

Aw, thank you. Mm. I'm eating good right now. Thanks, Carm. Wow. Yeah. karm i'm eating good right now thanks karm wow yeah they talk about how thoros isn't actually very priestly which we kind of know too from some of the side chapters that he would out drink even the king and gendry says he's a sot a drunken sot and ari is like you shouldn't call the king a sot and he's like i meant thoros not the king right because gandry's

a good son he would never call his father a sot until he knew who he was right then he might yeah yeah yeah i think it's art funny though that aria was like oh i know king interesting that we have the drinking buddies together right that richard lonmyth one of robert's drinking buddies is in this group and then thoros one of robert's drinking buddies is in this group yeah arguably is is the out drinking i don't know jesus's first miracle turning water into wine yeah they do that all the time in church allegedly allegedly eliana are you saying that you think never mind i don't have time for this let's move on but anyways anyways priestly behavior carm and i right now are just waiting for the petty to drop out of the air

huh okay so anyways thoros and robert loved tourneys and Thoros led the charge of Pyke with a flaming sword during the Greyjoy Rebellion. He was the first over the wall, if you remember, of the lore. Arya wishes that she had a flaming sword. She's like, I don't care if it was a trick or not. I want one. And Gendry's like, oh, you should hear about the first sword I made because boys love to talk about their hobbies.

And he starts telling her about how before Yoren came to take him away he was about to make a sword and ari is like well you can make them for my brother rob at river run and he's like river run and he looks at her for a moment and then he goes you kind of look like a proper little girl right now but different maybe and she's like i look like a stupid oak tree you know louise belcher voice mostly and uh aria's like talking back and forth she's like you stink and she shoves him because she's like don't fucking compliment me so she shoves him on an anvil and he catches her arm and they roll around the smithy for a bit he's really strong she's really fast yada yada yada i am not a gendry aria shipper in the slightest however i must admit that this is shockingly similar to the brahmi fight which i do ship

so just had to put that out there it's very it's very i'm sure it's similar for a reason yeah and it's nearby it like geographically in the story. And chronologically. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's a cute scene. Also, I don't know if you said this already last chapter or another chapter once, Chloe, but I'm just going to bring it up again.

You know, acorns, acorn imagery, seeds of the next generation, Degrassi, the next generation, and trees coming up throughout the chapter. Specifically,

I think you might be thinking of that Bran chapter. Probably. About the line about the acorn. You know, the oak is the acorn, the acorn's the oak, and the weirwood. A thousand human years are a moment to a weirwood, and through such gates you and I may gaze into the past. But even that line, the oak is the acorn, the acorn is the oak. The chicken is the egg, the egg is the chicken. the acorn is the oak the chicken is the egg the egg is the

chicken that's brand three a dance with dragons thank you thank you yes sally dance with dragons and i mean it fits with this there's a whole fucking ring of weirwoods over there that's it that's the insight by the end of the brawl they're both covered in dirt and aria's ripped the sleeve of her acorn dress i bet i don't look so nice now she shouted good for her she remembering her being like she couldn't say she just shouts the words yeah i like that lem clouts gendry in the ear like dunk so cute yes yes i've noticed he's done that a couple times now too he loves to clout yes Lem clouts Gendry in the ear like Dunk. So cute. Yes. Yes. I've noticed he's done that a couple times now, too. He loves to clout. Yes.

We all love the clout. Let's be real. Well, they return to the hall, dirtied and bruised, and everyone's kind of laughing at them, but also kind of frowning, too, like it's inappropriate, this display. Tom is singing. And, you know, I actually have been really thinking about this song for a few weeks, and I have nothing, but I'm going to make something up on the spot. But I actually, like, I want you two to know that I've been thinking about you two for, like, two and a half weeks. And I've been thinking.

There's three of us here. Oh, Evie too. I've been thinking about all of you and Evie for several weeks and thinking about how I might, like, come up with it on the guitar even. Like, I'm just like, I might play around and figure it out. But the song that Tom is singing my feather bed is deep and soft and there I'll lay you down I'll dress you all in yellow silk and on your head a crown for you shall be my lady love, and I shall be your lord. I'll always keep you warm and safe, and guard you with my sword. And how she smiled, and how she laughed, the maiden of the tree.

She spun away and said to him, no feather bed for me. and said to him no feather bed for me i'll wear a gown of golden leaves and bind my hair with grass but you can be my forest love and me your forest lass love thank you thank you thank you Love. Thank you. Thank you. That was really EGOT. EGOT. Wow. Thank you. An EGOT podcast. Amazing. Evie thought it was brilliant too. I saw it. Thank you, Evie.

I would sing to you, Evie. You little clutching needy cat. I love a needy cat. She's really needy. She's like. We love a needy cat. She's on me. Good for her. Amazing.

I don't know. Amazing. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you for having me on my podcast You can get my mixtape Over at soundcloud.com Just kidding I'll work on that There might be something fun there I think it's perfect

Thank you I can see if that's what Tom's doing Oh yeah I get it. Would have your son, Chloe. I totally get what Tom's doing. I see his game. I was unfamiliar with his game, but now I'm familiar. I'm like,

hmm, I've dated old men before. Anyway, here's Harrenhal. I love this focus of music and song in Arya's arc and you know what you said karm about how the fight her and gendry's fight is very akin to brienne and jamie's rings true because i feel like music is prominent in their arc with the bear and the maiden fair in general and there's a big repet yeah there's like a song thing going on here. And the music and the songs and the stories in Arya's arc, it's folklore of ice and fire, right? We're getting a folklore of ice and fire.

We're getting what traditions and culture. To Eliana's way earlier point about the Sept, like what's important to these people of these villages and what they value, the things they value. is and what they value the things they value and of course george as usual he's playing with his little fun game of giving secrets of the story to characters who don't and can't understand it right like aria hearing songs that she doesn't know what they're about i i think about this song especially the maiden of the tree that lyric right the maiden of the tree and the laughing and the spinning and the smiling and how honestly it makes me think of the night of the laughing tree yeah right we don't know the origin of the song but it this could have been written by regar it could be about absolutely liana right enough. Last chapter, we talked a little bit about how Harwin capturing Arya as she tried to

run away on a horse may have happened with the Kingsguard and Liana, right? With Rhaegar and the Riverlands. So who's to say this song isn't about other times? Who's to say that Rhaegar didn't visit lady smallwood who's to say he didn't visit the ghost of high heart who he surely knew this could have been written by rhaegar and i think it's easy to say that you know coming back to our discussion earlier with jenny's lyrics right of her song it reveals something to the plot that we can't know yet thematically obviously george wants it to be haunting but there's something regarding Lyanna and Rhaegar that has to be revealed, and I can't figure it out.

But I think it's quite clear he's the author of Jenny's song, right? It's interesting we're getting those footsteps that she's retracing Lyanna's footsteps through these very chapters. And Duncan, the Prince of Dragonflies, and Jenny as a placeholder for Rhaegar and Lyanna works really well in the story even just as like a way to storytell for George like it's smart for him to relate it because Duncan it's kind of a remix Duncan was sworn to a Baratheon girl and he forsakes that yeah he's like he literally was like no thank you yeah as the only brunette in the family i say no that's what duncan the prince of dragonfly says and he forsakes it all for jenny of old stones and gives his crown to his brother something the baratheons know nothing about

a half wild peasant girl everybody said right calling her maybe a witch from the riverlands he abdicates his claim on the throne for her and she brings the ghost of high heart to court in the world of ice and fire in the aegon 5 chapter we get a lot of background on this including jenny of old stones was accompanied by a dwarvish albino woman who was reputed to be a woods witch in the riverlands lady jenny herself claimed in her ignorance she was a child of the forest so a lot of the same themes of this chapter the ghost of high heart then tells prince jaharis in a manner of words that aries should marry rayella so we can kind of presume there's some sort of prophecy there

maybe about the prince that was promised from that line and in turn rhaegar and lyanna have some dominoes that have yet to fall and jenny's song is like not unheard we've seen it a couple of other times in the plot like later in a feast for crows sansa one we hear marillion sings it he sang of the dance of the dragons of fair jean quill and her fool of jenny of old stones and the prince of dragonflies he sang sang of betrayals, murders, most foul, hanged men, bloody vengeance, if any of these sound relevant. He sang of grief and sadness, or gorging on grief and sadness. And in the World of Ice and Fire, we have in the Stormlands section

for House Baratheon, the love between Jenny of Oldstones, with flowers in her hair, and Duncan, Prince of Dragonflies is beloved of singers, storytellers, and young maids even to this day. So this is a popular song, despite us not having all of the lyrics in the Aeswath universe. This is

a very popular song. Everyone fucking knows it. Rhaegar put out a hit single, and he was only 24. Yeah, no, I love how... I honestly, like, I like how few songs that we get in A Song of Ice and Fire. I think that it really elevates them all to a much higher level. I think that, like, currently, at this point in time, with, like, Spotify and other services, like, the market is so oversaturated with songs, even though songs can still be meaningful.

They aren't. In Westeros, there's like that we know of like 15 songs you can like choose from and you just have to like sing the shit out of them and like just love them. And I feel like it's just like hit clips. Carm, do you know about hit clips? Do you know about them? What they are? What do you mean by that? What are Hit Clips?

So back in the day, when Eliana and I were in our youth, there was... This was only in like the 90s, okay? So don't get crazy at me. Right. But we're not that old. But in the 90s and the aughts, the early aughts, there was a thing called Hit Clips. And it was like a mini player. Before like MP3 players were really getting getting big they were too inaccessible this was a mini player that you could

take a little tiny miniature clip and plug into it it would be in the shape of a boom box like this big tiny big and it would play 30 seconds a hook of a song that was popular at the time need yeah yeah i will send you some links. You don't need them. It's good they died, honestly, but now you have a phone. You can get them on eBay, I hear. You can. Weren't you telling me that there are some with like, I don't know, Britney's song?

But what you're saying is like, Westeros needs a hit clips. Like, they need to be able to pull out like their best 30 second hook like this. We don't get the full song, but we get like a verse or two. That sounds, I would honestly like hit clips. I would love that. Love. Oh,

I had all of them. You know, I had all of them. I was, that sounds amazing. Hit clips were real. Literally. Let's go back into business and sponsor us.

They can't even sponsor themselves, but I'm still thinking about when I said hit clips and I started to explain them to you. And then Eliana put her hand over her mouth and no one got to see it except us. It was an experience. So thank you for sitting through that, both of you. I really appreciate that. The earliest,

I think the music that was in when I was born was CDs, I think. Okay. Yup. They were popular for us too. I burned mixtapes in high school because I was ed Okay. Yep. They were popular for us too. I burned mixtapes in high school because I was edgy. Oh.

Yeah, that's why you're my friend. I like that about you, Karn. Yeah. And I would play them in the car. I made mixtapes for many a person too. Karn had a cassette player still? Did your car still have a cassette player? I made CDs. No, they were CDs, yeah oh sorry i thought i thought

you were really really no no no very edgy and precocious i wasn't that cool you're still very cool that was still very cool of you i was just like no yeah dedication though the the cassettes no i i don't think i i didn't hang out with cassettes a whole lot. Next time you come on, Chloe will explain cassettes to you. Word. Okay, anyways. I know they have tape. Glossing over that. Thanks, Eliana.

I mean, I could. I just don't think you need to know about the dying art. I did both. I did both. So back to A Song of Ice and Fire, where Rhaegar has still not dropped his fire mixtape because he dropped his fire mixtape in the Trident and died Lady Smallwood

smiles a very small fond smile and she's like I have no gowns of leaves but my daughter Corellon left other dresses so she takes Arya upstairs for yet another bath which is very tiring and puts her in a lilac dress not Arya's color,

decorated with baby pearls. Arya cannot ride in this, of course, so the next day she ends up with a new outfit. I'm just thinking about it. You're right, it's not her color. No, it's too cool for her. She needs a tiny bit of, like, if she's going to go cool, she needs, like, a dark gray.

It really fits her. Well, she has, like, high-contrast features like me, but not my undertones and skin color so i just know that like my mom told me growing up lilac makes me look sick and it does and i just don't think it would do her any favors that's all yeah anyway now that we've done this color analysis on aria's colors lady smallwood gave her breeches belt and tunic to wear, and a brown doe-skin jerkin dotted with iron studs. They were my son's things, she said. He died when he was seven.

I'm sorry, my lady. Aria felt suddenly bad for her and ashamed. I'm sorry I tore the acorn dress, too. It was pretty. Yes, child, and so are you be brave crying in the club no that's so real crying in the club and yeah they found a ground for one another yeah yeah so uh the first time that i read this chapter i like i literally started like dry heave ugly sobbing at this part because like even though lady smallwood tried to like scrub

aria clean and give her pretty lady dresses i do believe that she recognizes on some level that what aria truly desires is to wear boys clothes and play in the dirt and fight with swords and ride horses and be free. And she wants to care for Arya and bring her comfort in the midst of this horrific war. And comfort for Arya is, in part, masculinity. So instead of sending Arya off in a silk dress or even in her old tattered Bolton rags,

she gives her good quality boy's clothes. And not just any boy's clothes, she gives her the clothes of her dead son. The empathy displayed in both of these characters here is just absolutely astounding to me. Lady Smallwood parts with a keepsake that reminds her of her son for the sake of a child who she met just one night prior and aria who originally saw these dresses as stupid and pointless and like she doesn't want to wear them she recognizes the weight of this parting gift and decides to offer her courtesies the best way she knows how by complimenting the beauty of the dress that she ruined um and it just like is so oh it's so ow and it like it it kind of she ruined sansa's dress too and i feel like in some way like

she's apologizing to sansa a little bit too because this is the first like highborn not the first but this is one of the first highborn ladies she's encountered in a while and i'm sure that she reminds her on some level of sansa and her mother yeah it's a duty she's understanding the duty of it and that lady smallwood understands her through the duty of it that you have a lot on your shoulders whether you want to be a highborn lady or not that's the role you've been given by life yeah and i don't know i i'm probably reading too much into this like and ashamed part but there's a part of it that also reads like not just you know feeling ashamed that i have um in regards to this nice thing that belonged to your daughter that that i've destroyed but also like a part of her that almost is it like feeling ashamed that she

could not fit the role that lady smallwood was trying to fit her into and that society has been trying to fit her into because when you can't fit the role and the mold that you're given or told that you have like there is shame associated with it as well and like feeling ashamed to be who aria really is yeah Yeah. So. It's just. Yeah, because you know you have so much, and others have so little. Others don't have that escape route at all. Yeah. It kind of reminds me, it's not similar, really, but it, like, she's like, you're gonna dress

up like a boy anyway, so instead of these old clothes, I'll give you new clothes. It kind of reminds me of being like a little baby trans. And I met my friend's older trans brother for the first time. And at this point, I didn't really know how to bind. I was just wearing a bunch of sports bras that were too small for me, which is a hazard. And I remember he had just gotten top surgery and he gave me my first binder. was like his old one and he was like yo like i know you're gonna like keep doing this so like you might as well do it right and it just like kind of reminds me of that like parting like an item of clothing that has already been owned by someone can be so meaningful and it like reminded me of that a lot i don't know and it's like obviously different because

lady smallwood isn't trans but like just the whole like you're gonna do it anyway so i'm gonna give you a better way to do it yeah it's the acceptance from a mother yeah well it may not be your mother it's the acceptance and the hope that it could be the same acceptance you get from your mother too i think there's some of that and i think uh i think of swords right the the idea of like giving a sword down from generation to generation and that saying like i'm proud of you i trust you you're my heir you're the person that i can trust to do this task that is so meaningful to our family for example like i think of damon targaryen getting his sword or damon blackfire getting the sword over his brother and what that means and like clothing can have that same exact influence you look at sansa's chapter before this right

or uh before aria three sorry when you had sansa Yeah. With the dress that binds her and gives her in marriage to Tyrion and how awful that is. And like the dress being the death sentence. Yeah. And for Arya being able to wear the clothes of this dead boy and how much it means to Lady Smallwood and also to her.

They're two separate meanings, but together combined, they're really powerful. Yeah. That's a really good point. And then there's like the, you know, Lady Smallwood reassuring, you don't need to be ashamed about this. You don't need to be ashamed about wearing boys clothes. Like, just go out there, be yourself, be brave. Whoever you are, that's like, that's pretty.. Just like your soul, whatever it is. And earlier you were talking about the bath scene being written in such a way that it felt like a flaying.

And this bath is apparently even worse, but I almost now in that context, I'm reading it differently. It's painful to find your true self. It's painful to get to painful to find your true self it's painful to get to live and be your true self and like is this next bath not a flaying but a stripping of these other signs that have been put on to aria to get to then that true self and to and to finally uncover that yeah exactly two different kinds of beds there are two bads inside of you oh wait what guys wait

yeah you all thought this was about aria being a wolf it's about aria being two bads i'm not gonna be questioning it you know what i think you're both right anyway i just like that be brave feels like advice ned would give, especially because I think, you know, coming back to that idea of like, what boys are told to do, like, Ned didn't actually, I think, give any of that advice to Sansa or Arya. It was advice that he gave to his son, Bran. That's the only time a man can be truly brave when he's afraid. And so this is something that feels like something someone would tell their son. Yeah. Aww. This is a great equivalent I love Lady Smallwood I wish she came back in every chapter it's interesting

Eliana I don't know if you I think you had possibly omitted it from your original notes but I do want to add you had said something at one point offline about how she's kind of the the lady hornwood of the plot for aria you know she's very fleeting she uh brings a lot of emotion to the plot and

i think she gives me personally a certain affinity for her just in that acceptance that she gives aria that maybe catelyn won't get a chance to ever, obviously, because Undead. It's the most acceptance Arya gets, and Lady Hornwood kind of, not necessarily the same vibes, but brings some vibes to Bran that teach him about, you know, his kingdom someday he might rule. And for Arya the same, like, this conversation with lady smallwood informs her so much on being

highborn than she was ever taught by her family yeah yeah i had put that in there because like she had wanted to protect aria she's like i don't got enough troops right which is what was the problem with lady or she's like i don't have enough troops someone please help and oh i'm worried but the the oh yeah the whole thing is like i i you know then it does bring back you know lady smallwood in that moment it was like i i wish i could protect you and what she does do she does protect aria she protects aria's sense of self and then gives aria yeah armor through through the clothing through being able to live more like our history self if he does anything to Lady Smallwood

I'm gonna fucking riot yeah oh yeah George you better protect these lands you better fucking protect these lands what the fuck what the fuck I would do anything for her yeah that's mother

no truly I wonder we could meet carolyn in the citadel chapters yeah okay i was thinking that it's uh it's kind of a fun name it's a very like i like when we get some fun riverlands kind of names or like some names that you know are just local names sweet carolyn feather bed oh remix uh karm you've come on a journey with us today we've been very blessed to have you on this journey this has been so wonderful thank you for being here is there uh anything you would like to add slash can you tell everybody where to kind of find you online if you want them to find you you don't have to want them to find you this is like a personal choice if you want them to enjoy the old on gay on guy with you on gay oh god um that's a

different website yeah so my twitter is at caesar valid but ca Caesar is spelled wrong. It's spelled C-A-E-S-E-R instead of A-R, because that was already taken. Hell yeah. I started a Tumblr a while ago and haven't added to it, but I want to start adding. My Tumblr is at Weasel of Tarth, and I

used to do threads on Twitter where I, like, analyzed Mitski songs as, like, a song of ice and fire characters. Yeah. I learned very quickly that Twitter is a terrible platform to do that on. So I'm going to start doing that on Tumblr and also just like connecting with the community. So it's not up right now, but by the time that this airs, I will have content on there. And I would love to hang out with you guys on Tumblr

weaseloftar.tumblr.com I follow it, you should too I don't know if I can log into my Tumblr I'm praying for you I'm praying for you I'm actually back on Tumblr again just for fun I'm having a good time I hear it's fun again

I'm posting gift sets again like it's 2013 it's yeah exactly I was like it's fun again. I'm posting gift sets again like it's 2013. It's, it's, yeah, exactly. I was like, it's 2013 and 14 again, everyone. It really, the Hunger Games, Tumblr, just Twitter is brutal right now. I don't want to be on there anymore. Yeah, you know, not now, Elno. Not now. Not now.

Yeah. Well, we've had such a blast with you tonight. We will link below where to find those posts. Get ready for weasel of tarth tumblr era it's returning you know eliana i think that if anyone wants to find us we're not necessarily on tumblr but we're on a couple places yeah you can find us on twitter.com slash girls gone canon that's c-a-n-o-n or over on blue sky with the really long url but just search girls gone canon again c C A N O N.

And you'll find us there. Perhaps you have thoughts you would like to share with us. Please send us an email at girls gone cannon at gmail.com. Yeah. And I want to give a really big shout out to our patrons, patrion.com slash girls gone cannon C A N O N. That's another place that you can listen to our episodes. They give you a little private Rss feed and our patrons are everything if we didn't have them these episodes would not happen

every week they sponsor them they make sure they come out through sheer force of will honestly so thank you to them and here's a little word from them on where else you can listen to us at you can catch to us at. podcasts. You can also join us on Patreon, where if you join the Thunder tier or above, you have access to a Discord and monthly happy hours and things like that. And by joining the Discord, you get access to a bunch of great channels, including but not limited to memes and shitposting channel, Fashion Hour. There are multiple channels for Historic Materials, A Song of Ice and Fire, there's a pets channel, which I think is probably the most important channel of all.

Respectful Thirsting, because there's a channel for that. Come by, join the community, it's a lot of fun, and you won't regret it. What a fuckin' episode, are ya for? It's the first big episode in a while. It was a big boy. Happy to have gotten through it with you, Karm. Thanks for being here. And as always, I've been one of your hosts, Chloe. And I've been another one of your hosts, Eliana. Yes.

Thank you, Karm. Thank you. This was wonderful. I had a wonderful time. I'm glad. Go be brave. Be brave, Karm. Oh brave Carm out on your feather bed or whatever

be brave Evie the bigger be brave am I allowed to be do you want me to edit your animals don't dox Carm's cat don't dox his cat do you want me to dox your cat or not I tweet about her we'll see.

We'll keep Evie in our thoughts, you know? That's the brave warrior cat, for sure. So true. We'll see you all next time for Aria 5, the last Aeswaf POV app of 2023.

Bye.