Girls Gone Canon Cast - ASOIAF Episode 216 — ASOS Arya IX featuring LostWolfling

Episode Date: February 9, 2024

Using a trauma-informed lens, Mira aka LostWolfling helps us navigate these troubling waters in Arya and Sandor's storyline.  Where to find Mira:  Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lostwolfling TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lostwolfling "Be Seeing You: A John Wick Podcast: :  ttps://open.spotify.com/playlist/33BTDo7yA2TjXFj3pj7d4F?si=8c0b8e068b0a436e John wick >>>>>>>>>>> Background music credit: "Cryptic Sorrow" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/ ---- Eliana's twitter: https://twitter.com/arhythmetric Eliana's reddit account: https://www.reddit.com/user/glass_table_girl Eliana's blog: https://themanyfacedblog.wordpress.com/ Chloe's twitter: https://twitter.com/liesandarbor Chloe's blog: liesandarborgold.com Intro by Anton Langhage

Hello and welcome to Girls Gone Canon Reads A Song of Ice and Fire episode 216, A Storm of Swords, Aria 9, with our friend Mira LostWoofling. I am one of your hosts, Chloe. And I am another one of your hosts, Eliana. And are you ready for these two people talking a lot about Sandor this specific, this episode? So much. Mira, thank you for coming on because this is a long time coming mira and i have been close friends specifically re sandor's dick uh for a long time so it brings

people together interesting it is the gift that keeps on giving a full eight to ten inches of giving if i may and um at least at least more snow than i've seen in years what the fuck and that's a treat of how you're gonna uh see the rest of this episode panning out everyone i have to edit this episode everyone this is only round one for me you're welcome yes this is the gift that keeps on giving mira beyond sandor's cock you you are actually i love every take you have on not just sandor but a song of ice and fire you come at things from a very i don't know it's like a raw a lot of your own personal experiences and sometimes a different angle than I think of things that challenges me if I may say so things that I'm like huh I don't know that I thought about that so I was excited to get you on for this chapter that is kind of a somewhat simple chapter but not as simple as it looks I feel yeah not at all yeah thank you I try to keep a pretty trauma

informed lens because I have some of it. No, I actually have all of it. I have complex post-traumatic stress disorders. Exciting. It's sort of like having a degree and being traumatized. The good one. So I think, you know, there are so many people who are going to know every prophecy and, like, that they're drawing maps at home and tracking letters and things like that.

But I don't know a lot of people who have CPTSDd and are willing to be like by the way i have this and if we look at the actual trauma inside of these characterizations it is kind of a different book sometimes yeah absolutely it informs a lot of these characters from the very beginning right from the moment you get used to ned and his family which we could do 800 episodes together on, I know. Indeed. Starks in general. Yeah. Well, you are always busy on Twitch streaming and playing games.

I live there. Yeah, you live there, and I don't visit enough. I'm sorry for that. I need to do that more. Sometimes you, we were just talking before this, you play some scary stuff sometimes, and, you know, I'm sensitive. I do. I'm really sensitive and soft i'm a little flower i'm just just a little guy i'm just a girl i'm just a girl i'm just she's actually sleeping she was sleeping in a matchbox when we started recording and eliana and i had to wake her up from the little matchbox

that she said because she's so small like thumbelina but much fucking stupider oh um i was not allowed to watch thumbelina growing up i'll go over that a different time but yeah what oh my god what i feel like we've had a lot of opportunities for you to go over that and you haven't so we just don't talk about thumbelina i just don't talk about thumbelina very often so that guy rides a bee like a motorcycle what's not to love mira what are you playing on your twitch right now what is going on what's to come do we get sneak peeks spoilers tell us everything what's happening absolutely what's happening so currently i have two different baldur's gate streams that i'm doing i have one that I'm doing just me by myself. And I very recently started a

co-stream. Oh, with whom? I'm doing it with Emily and Matt and Steve. So like people that you know. Oh, shit. Yeah. Okay, cool. Cool. We just started that up. Big things moving forward in more towards the spring. I'll be doing my third streaming playthrough of Cyberpunk 2077. But this time I'm going to, every stream is going to be dedicated to specific gigs and side gigs, and they're going to be organized based on themes and motifs in not just the game, but the cyberpunk genre. So I'll be doing like a full, not just I enjoy this game and it's nice that Keanu Reeves is here, but actually building in time to the stream to discuss the lore of the game and also the cyberpunk genre in itself. Because Madden Forge, it is very relevant to our lives. Yeah, I do have to ask real quick and we don't have to get into this one.

So I'm going to ask you one more thing that we're going to get into. have to ask real quick and we don't have to get into this one because i'm going to ask you one more thing that we're going to get into but oh you are one of the people that i saw playing cyberpunk when it first come out and had me interested in it like i was like i would probably like this and i wanted to wait until the update and everything kind of happened because i know the beginning was a shit show but it's a little messy but you know what the best things are and you got to put up with a little bit of the coal before you get the diamond. Okay. Do you think it's worth it? Is it something I should get into? Also, I need to get into Baldur's Gate. I've been told I don't know if I'm ready for BG3 yet, but everyone's telling me to do that too. So what would you recommend? Yes, no on either

and one over the other. What should I do? What do I do with my life, Mira? So Cyberpunk 2077 will take way less time than Baldur's Gate will insofar as what the actual content is you've got about 30 or 40 hours of main gameplay and you can extend it to 60 or 80 hours if like me or someone who wants to collect every shard do every sidekick and like spend time digging up every piece of lore that they put into it. Baldur's Gate, I'm pushing almost 200 hours in one of my playthroughs, and I'm still not done. So I would say that Baldur's Gate is just like your whole life, but you could knock Cyberpunk out pretty quickly.

I will say that I think after the first two patches, Cyberpunk 2077 is one of the best AAA triple a games i've ever played okay for me personally as someone who is story driven and likes having custom builds in a game because i do really like tt rpgs it was very worth my time on that account since the phantom liberty dlc in march it's essentially cyberpunk 2.0 is what it's being referenced now so it's the same game but it is also like the vision is realized of everything that this game could have been it's done it's out i would recommend cyberpunk 2077 to anyone who enjoys any sort of dystopian fiction whatsoever even if you've never done science fiction or cyberpunk in that way i think putting yourselves in this like protagonist shoes and having a life or death situation makes it easier, in my opinion, to get into a really sci-fi, cyberpunk heavy genre.

If like, it's not something that you like. Philip K. Dick isn't easy to read. It's simply written, but I think there's a lot of slugging through. So I really, really recommend it if you have even 2% of an interest in dystopias. Interesting. Okay. All right. I'm into that. Thank you. And I appreciate that you like differentiate them based on time suck. Because as you know, I think we play a lot of mutual games that are based on wasting part of your life just grinding

for fun. Yes. Comfort games. Yes. We play a lot of Sims. You and I do. We're into the Sims. You know, we're into a lot of those games. And I have a couple Time Sucks on my hand right now. Medieval Dynasty has been the biggest one. But I've lost many hours of my life to some of these games. So I have to tread carefully. Some things having a finite end is good sometimes. I've already given my take on Baldur's Gate. It is like real life.

You know, it becomes your whole life. And that's why I couldn't keep playing. Because my real life is full of anxiety i was like i can't make these decisions consequences yeah absolutely not so stressful yeah i'm excited to just like date and fuck you know like that's the exciting thing for bg3 that i'm i'm gonna get in there for i'm gonna date all the characters yeah thank you yeah i feel like a married woman now i feel like i know a lot about the game just because of twitter.com so i'm already inundated i'm like i could probably transition easy it's just do i want to

am i ready for that big step in my life so i don't know i probably gonna play them both don't worry don't worry i got a new computer for christ from the roommate. So very kind of him. All right. The big one. You are a podcast queen of the John Wickverse. In fact, I the first time I finally watched John Wick, I thought of you. You know, like that's how big, in my opinion, you are in the John Wickverse. So tell us about your John Wick podcasting.

Tell us if there's anything in the future, because there's been rumbles from that side of the fandom of different media happening I hear indeed so my John Wick podcast I personally am currently on a hiatus with it until there are more films for me personally and I'm not I'm not into the vibe of what the continental spinoff was i'm not into the vibe of letting mill gibson do stuff and i'm also not into the vibe of uh trying to use peacock because it's never worked it's the worst it's so bad it's it's just like love peacock love for it to work someday so i'm not a bit of a hiatus but yeah as it exists be seeing you, the John Wick podcast. I've got roughly 20 individual basically thesis on various things as they connect back to John Wick, the director Chad Stahelski. I think maybe someone at Lionsgate is waking up to the IP

exhaustion that people are feeling. And I'm guessing that the Continental did not do what they thought it would do. It got mostly bad reviews and a lot of other people also took time to say they weren't into Mel Gibson being there. But Chad Stahelski has actually just signed a deal with Lionsgate so that his next film will be the Highlander prequel that he's doing which i'm could scream and cry about for days sting and he is also going to be the creative director moving forward for any john wick spinoff so we'll get the ballerina film with anna de armas which is directed by lynn weisman who directed the underworld series because he's who when i think give me a female-led action film i think the guy who directed underworld

i don't but um moving forward once we survive whatever that's gonna be chad stahelski will be a creative director on everything they do moving forward so i'm cautiously optimistic that i will get to uh be excited about doing the podcast, instead of just doing it to go. Well, they did that. We too look forward to this day. We get you. We get you.

Thank you. Thank you. Well, we'll link below the be seeing you John wick podcast for you all to go find, but it's pretty much available everywhere. It's all over the internet. So give it a Google download it.

If you're a John wick fan, I'm excited to have you on. This is going going to be exciting we have a little housekeeping to do i'm excited we're going to link your twitch below lost wolfling and all the good stuff where you can follow mira and we'll talk a little bit more about your relationship with you know this chapter as we go yeah well bringing it back to trauma. So our February Patreon episode, we are continuing our read through of The Hunger Games, the first book called The Hunger Games. You so got me on that one. I was like, Oh, Eliana. Oh, Eliana.

I mean, it's about trauma. So we are going to be finishing up the book with act three the victor yeah that's coming out this month in february if you missed it last month part two is out it is out we had a really good time actually it was pretty depressing i say we had a really good time it might be the first time i've ever cried on this podcast glossing over that i hope you look for what why are you making that face? Glossing over that. It is the first time. I was just so surprised. That was the look of surprise. Because I would never cry

on this podcast, and I haven't before. Never. So, if you're feeling gaslit from that comment, you shouldn't. Hmm. That'll be out for the stranger tier and above over at patreon.com slash girlsgonecanon. That's the $5 and above tier. Patrons get

a bonus episode if you're in that tier or above every month on something. We're going to continue that series. We do have to kind of switch over lanes, I think, and do some Braavos coverage now that we're in Arya. And now that we're almost done with Arya, this is like

this is not in the beginning with Arya. This is not in the beginning of Arya. This is actually towards the mid-old with a little kind of emphasis towards the end of the Arya published chapters. We're finally there. We're doing it. We're actually having a discussion about some certain chapters, whether they need to be one or two.

Whoa. Throwback. I think one, but you'll find out. So will we. We'll find out too but almost done with the storm of swords we're here for storm of swords nine now and there's more happening in february for patrons just so you know february 17th will be our discord brunch kind of our little galentine's day celebration i feel like like it is every year somehow it always happens it's around this time so we are gonna be hanging out of discord for the $10 and up patrons thunder tier and above having brappy hour brunch happy hour probably play some games I'm excited I uh I think it's

gonna be a fun time it will be a fun time maybe one of these years we should do it like groundhog day just I don't know Groundhogs are fun and cute. Six more weeks of brappy hour. Oh, God. No. Oh, that's not what you meant. Well, that's our housekeeping. We have some emails and tweets of note that we got to circle back on.

A couple of fun comments as well on Patreon. But this year we're going to jump straight into the lightning round there's a storm it has been storming here of swords in aria story yes and just a reminder our lightning round will be covering what we missed between aria 8 and aria 9 in a storm of swords and we're going to start with jamie six you want her go get her so he did the crowd goes wild catelyn five rob names his heir catelyn goes wild samwell a three small paul returns also cold hands wow the crowd goes wild again yes so much going wild zombies go wild um that brings us to aria nine in a storm of swords where aria and sandor are on the road and sandor intends to eventually present Arya at the twins. Are they on the road or on the river?

Anyway, Arya and Sandor, I mean, they come to the river in the rain, right? It's coursing hard about a mile across. According to Arya, we have this line of the tops of half a hundred trees poked up out the swirling waters, their limbs clutching for the sky like the arms of drowning men. This image pops up a lot in this chapter. Eliana, you have some stuff to talk about later, so I don't want to steal your lightning. Ha! Um, ah!

Ha! I'm sorry, it's not good, I'm warming up. But you have some points later, and there's like so much drowned men imagery in these chapters in Storm. I even think to the last chapter with ghost of high heart right in her vision of balin's death blink and you miss it but lots of imagery of the drowned man happening and then i think of course it comes to her mother's drowning too right that idea of drowning and also coming back to life it's heating up as we have

relore we have the brotherhood following in the the flames of r'hllor and having that similar coming back to life thing happening very interesting stuff very interesting imagery if they come up it's a baptism yes that's how it works they are risen wow like riz like r-i-z-z yeah wow wow i mean eric grayjoy does have a lot of riz. Arya is captive on Sandor's horse, his mail digging into her and his burn wounds still raw, his recent ones. She asks if this is the Blackwater Rush, feeling that they've ridden for quite a while. And he says, it's a river. He answers her questions, though, sometimes. But ultimately, he really wishes she wouldn't be talking.

And every moment she's like, hey, mister, did you notice this? And he's like, uh. He also keeps threatening her a couple times to not test him and not run away again. So she chooses to ride only to try to smash his head in with a rock while he's sleeping. But he wasn't actually sleeping. So he takes the rock away from her, but not without without her getting a kick in. I love the idea of Sandor pretending to go to sleep so he can let Arya get trying to murder him out of the way.

I think that's actually like pretty nice of him. Get it out of your system, kid. Get the murder out of your system. He's like, all right, sure, fine. The way he talks to her is so atrocious, but then he just like never actually harms her at all. What an interesting dichotomy these two incredibly well-adjusted people on this very normal road trip i also something i appreciate

and i think this is a very weird thing that aria and sandor have in common is that his his threats are like bizarrely measured like when she bites him he threatens to gag her and then she kicks him so like she loses custody of her legs and she has to be burritoed there's a weird there's a very weird gentle justice and there's a weird kind of justice and how he's like i mean fine but now you don't have your mouth like you did this is it worth it no mouth i love that like then you have like stannis right who's like well i will chop your hand off but sandor's a little fair in my opinion compared to that he's just i don't think stannis baratheon has ever put anyone in a burrito in his whole life and i think that might be the problem i know yeah i think he would feel better if he did i agree and also if he ever had

a burrito i feel like that would solve i mean he needs to be put in a burrito yes that is a man who is allergic to every ingredient in a mo's yeah like fully i think stannis would, Stannis thinks ranch is spicy. I agree. That's also true. He's like, but look at all this fire. I've got taste. I'm like, do you? Anyways. Do you?

Arya asks Xander, well, why don't you just kill me like you did Micah? And he's like, shut the fuck up. And then she gets tied up in the burrito blanket, right, while she sleeps. That's one of my favorite things about this chapter. Like you said, it's a pretty simple chapter. There's seemingly not a lot going on. But what we have here is we have Arya, who doesn't realize that she's currently a child soldier being radicalized, but she is. That's what's going on with Arya Stark. And Sandor very much was a child soldier.

He was 12. He didn't have a lot of options. He, you know, kind of became this sword and sword. And so something that's happening, you know, if I may reference Sandor Clegane's drinking heavily escalating the longer he knows Sansa Stark, he's now confronted with the other half of the Starks. And it's like, oh, do you remember the other Stark that was like a metaphor for like the hope and dreams that you used to have and how you used to believe in chivalry? The other one's actually low-key going to be worse for you because she's almost in exactly the same circumstance that you're in. So she keeps being here and she keeps calling what he does, not execution,

calling what he does not execution not assassination not orders Arya calls it murder and she keeps naming Micah she keeps giving him a name and calling him a boy and I don't think that this has happened to Sandor since he went in service for the Lannisters because like certainly Cersei and Tywin aren't gonna be like oh yes that actual child who has a name, kill them. I don't think he's had to think about the humanity attached to the deeds that he has to do in a very long time. It's really interesting. He wins the battle and everyone's like, I mean, I guess he gets to be alive.

The fire says he gets to live. I don't know if I'm like super into rohlor but if the fire had a point it might be that aria's perhaps both the worst justice and introduction to therapy that sandra clagain really has to bear yeah i really like that and i love that you've brought this in right like the entire idea of him being a child soldier as well and some of those parallels and what he sees in her of himself what he probably sees in her of maybe his sister that died in the queer fashion quote unquote that we all are like we know something happened there he was totally like conscripted into a war that completely stripped him of his empathy because it's supposed to right that's the machine that

he was put within and that's what got chewed up and spit out and it was a safety war right like he was pulled into an army because he had no real choice in it because he had no real options which is exactly where aria is right now she's just going along hoping someone will take her to her family and soon that won't even be an option for her uh they're both fighting and losing the i don't give a fuck war yeah and i really like the way that you've drawn that juxtaposition between what sansa represents for sandor and aria sansa being like a reflection of what he would like to be who he could be and then aria as who he is who he needs to move away and grow from but also he was forced to be yeah and also like you know you're talking about that radicalization and that is very much true of like what happens especially with aria and heron hall you know like that's kind of what the faceless men were doing

to her they were like hmm but what if we started with baby steps of trying to get you used to assassination name three names and then really just kind of slowly grooming her into that life survival yeah oh man survival turned vengeance yeah but here's a survival skill that aria does not have directions all right she does not she's not good at directions she's convinced that we are at the black water yeah she's even like i can't even tell with the moss anymore like baby girl you can never tell with the moss she's not getting that orienteering ribbon i also love how often like a storm of swords for aria i think is aria doesn't know this but as a reader it feels like a storm of swords is pointing at aria and going you are also a rich baby yeah we're also absolutely from a noble family because aria

has all this stuff where she's like i'm actually very tough and cool because my brother gave me a sword once and like fully i think the moss thing reminds me of that because she fully just overheard one of her father's men who actually has to go out and scout every day be like well you know if you follow a river it'll always lead you to a town and if you see the moss on the trees that's how you know that's where the sun and water come in and like someone gave her like basic girl scout 101 safety and an aria's child brain she's like i'm basically a ranger so i know how to i've got it yeah guys i've got it that's true and a storm of sorts is like aria you don't got nothing you are from a noble house you have like you actually don't have any skills you are a small

small little baby she's learning them on the road but she thinks she's a pro until it like hits her and like i've been saying every episode i've been saying she doesn't fucking know what money is she doesn't get money she has no clue how it works still not one bit how it works at all even at this point yeah she's never had it she doesn't know how to spend it every time every time one of her friends gets a job in a storm of sorts it's very much obviously it's higher stakes uh and my feelings are very much with aria but it is sort of that thing of like you've got to get an a part-time job after school a couple of days a week and you've got like one friend who doesn't have to do that and they're like but i thought you believed in theater how are we going to rehearse the crucible and you're just like i don't know i gotta i don't know but i gotta go

clock in at dominoes for six hours a week okay i don't know what to tell you aria i don't know it is though and this is actually the first chapter i feel like she starts to learn more about what money means right especially as we get to the ferryman soon like i feel like she finally is like wait that costs money you don't have money we took that money yeah none of us have money she's like what are we gonna do but um i love yeah she sees it as a very personal betrayal whenever anyone gets a job because she's like why would you take this job that already gave you an offer when there's a only a very potential offer on the table from my family one they have not made a nine-year-old girl has made it baby we'll give you a job sorry if i don't trust the nine-year-old girl yeah also to this like you know i'm very much a stark girly i uh i think the starks are

exceptional and i do hold that bias and it's okay for me to have that bias because it's the correct bias and george rr martin said so but i will say that like while i do as a reader think that it's true aria has this disconnect as well where she's like guys if you take me to my brother and my mom they'll be like grateful and they'll take care of you and every other person in her life is like oh for sure the lord that i bring a feral child back to is going to be like very chill and cool about it like she also doesn't have any concept of that whatsoever which in a way is like it does really set her up to be on this road trip with sander clegane the only man feral enough to go i mean fuck it we'll see yeah that's true maybe they'll be into it i don't know it's either that or i'll die you know guess i'll die that's a sandor fucking meme

of the century as well i mean aria has that moment later on in this chapter she does have a guess i'll die moment so but um i i what unites them yeah i like what you're saying of you know she's i mean she has this very childishness right to her point of view of like her being like yeah i mean it's all gonna work out you just reunite me and my family and everything's gonna fucking work out for everyone and that's why those childish assumptions that's why she thinks like oh yeah clearly we're at the black water this is who sandra clegane is he like works for the lannisters and you know she doesn't really get it she doesn't really understand that people change they have different beliefs that's true of like adults

adults make those poor assumptions too in real life and in story so i mean like you know it's really realistic in how she's written so we have a line here i don't know there's a lot of good lines in this chapter of like she wished that the sun would come out so she could tell which way they were going not that it would matter for her the more she looked at the moss on the trees the more confused she got the moss doesn't fucking work okay the black water wasn't so wide at king's landing but that was before the rains that's so great the moss doesn't make sense it never made sense baby girl i'm someone who touches moss all the time because it feels good all of you should just if you find a good patch of moss just go

touch it i promise you will not touching grass and go touch moss yes that's eliana's advice jars i have i have two jars of moss and lichen that are from the Appalachian Mountains. My friends bought it from like a weird witch woman in the grove in Asheville because I've been so homesick out here. So I have two self-sustaining jars that are terrarium so I can huff what the woods smell like in Appalachia anytime I get really homesick. And I do sometimes just reach in and touch a lichen. Really recommend it. Get a jar jar it feels good right it feels it's just like soft and fun yeah i love that we all each have our own like place i think you could if i could have like a moss bed yeah a moss bed would be nice very fairy like yeah yeah yeah i'm taking it back to thumbelina true tuck myself in a little pedal i love that whenever you close your eyes and you think of moss every person has their own place

they think of i think that's fucking great this is so fucking radical yeah isn't that cool like just like that you close your eyes right now if you're listening like think of moss and like what it makes you think of it makes me think of my grandparents house they live on like a lot of land in the north and it's very woodsy and there's moss everywhere and they have these like tracks that like keep their big long driveway straight like railroad track kind of things like almost like stacked up and they're all covered in moss and the riverlands is a place of mind i guess is what i'm saying it's got a lot of moss. In a way, we're all in the Riverlands all the time, if you believe. You know what, Aria? If you believe, that is the right lake.

There can be miracles if you believe. Josh Groban sings a song like that from the Polar Express. Though hope is frail. It's pretty hard to kill, so well all right so there's no way across this river aria's like the black waters or the black water see now i'm in the black water aria is like the brotherhood without banners are gonna catch up they're gonna come get me sandor though has done a lot to throw them off the scent he's kind of a professional he's been doing this a little longer while aria did a lot to try to make sure they get caught underneath him on doing the things he's

doing like carving her name into trees until sandor caught her like the fourth time so precious what is this plan aria but it's really cute it's adorable but like what are you carving your name into the tree? They're not. This isn't a relay race, baby girl. This is the whole woods. This is the whole wilderness. At wartime, Arya was here though. It makes me think

someone might see it though, right? She's even hoping that Thoros finds her in her flames, which is funny because it then connects to when we see the Grey Girl dying in Melisandre's visions, right the next books in a feast dance with john she hopes thoros sees her the gray girl in the woods carving her name in trees it does make me wonder you know if someone's gonna find that right like can you imagine lady stoneheart finding that like that would be um pretty destructive i feel like for her it would

really make her sad can she read or mad it makes me want to i don't know she can't speak but she remembers so maybe she can i don't know i'm just i don't know i don't know how brains work when they're resurrected three days later read i don't know that takes a lot of like language skill i don't know yeah i don't know the neuroscience behind i mean is it like resurrection is it like having a stroke you know like being resurrected yeah yeah because faculties aren't working totally all over like a part of your brain is like you know not working like died off i assume especially three days not only without oxygen without fucking life it's kind of funny too that like just a chapter ago she's like i hate these weirdos i can't

wait to get away from them i can't stand them and now she's like please weirdos find me um please i'm with the weirder weirdo now that said though i also thought thinking back to our little some of the parallels we've been pulling in the riverlands with aria and liana makes you wonder if liana was carving her name into trees at all or her and raygar's name can you just imagine coming across like an r plus l tree with a heart around it uh interesting very embarrassing um it's deep i also you also just made me think then of the i mean the children of the forest right? They were clearly carving shit into trees. And by that, I mean faces. Faces.

Yeah. I wonder if it's some sort of indication of like how they wielded magic, you know, putting the faces into the tree and stuff. And it's interesting connecting it with Arya's plot, especially with her going into more of the magical world, the realm. Yeah. Kind of going back to our, all of our moss synesthesia and our moss feelings i do think there's i do think there's something really interesting to

be said for from a basic plot point obviously but more thematically aria finds herself in these woods in this wilderness and they sort of tangentially belong to a part of her family but she's already established with people being like do you know what your uncle looks like would he know what you look like and aria having to be like no because i've never left the north so she's in here with these trees carving her name onto these trees but like these are not her woods this is not the wolf's wood this is not the god's wood that she's been in like it's belongs to her family she's seeking this connection she thinks this natural world can help her but like these are these woods don't belong to her they're not hers they don't know her and so it's that idea of like the environment the environment itself does not

know her there are no weirwoods here to see her you know based on any various interpretation of how that works interesting and also like leaving her mark upon them to make herself a part of them even yeah one with the woods and it's interesting because like she doesn't feel that strong connection with her mom right she feels that her mother might not love her or want her and she doesn't feel that strong connection with her mom, right? She feels that her mother might not love her or want her. And she doesn't feel that connection with her mom's side of the family where Sansa really favors some of the ritual of her mom's side of the family. Of the Seven and of the South. And has embraced some of that ritual and that tradition where Arya has clearly not really embraced it as much.

It is really interesting because like, I mean, she does have roots to say in this area and like having never met her grandfather or her uncle and yet her family is from here and she's actually spent i mean i would say like most of aria's storyline that we know when we think of aria's storyline does take place in the riverlands a lot of them takes place in bravos as well in the free cities i love the bravos chapters are my favorite but um yeah they are in the riverlands. A lot of them takes place in Braavos as well in the Free Cities. I love the Braavos chapters. They're my favorite. But they are in the Riverlands. And it makes me think of some of my friends, you know, immigrants, right?

They meet their family members for the first time when they're like 10, 15 years old. They never get to see their homeland until their teenage years or adulthood. And it's like this idea of trying to make that connection of, hey, who am I? Who is my family? And really learning that, so interesting. We have a passage here. Harroway town shouldn't be far, the hound said. Where Lord Rootstable's old king Andahar's two-headed waterhorse.

Maybe we'll ride across. Arya had never heard of old king Andahar. She'd never seen a horse with two heads either, especially not one who could run on water, but she knew better than to ask. Arya's glad the rain is behind them now, and she's stopped crying. Wolves never cry, she reminds herself again uh yeah they don't have tear ducts that's not how dogs work um or or like nature dogs whatever but we do hear even though she says wolves don't cry it's interesting because throughout the story we do hear of people being like i heard like a really sad wolf howling or it sounds like a wolf crying it's not crying but you know just sad howls so they do a lament melancholy as a stark yeah feel your sadness feel your sadness aria don't turn

don't turn off your feelings they keep traveling also aria is sick with fever but the hound once again tells her to shut the fuck up he sleeps and then lets stranger take the wheel and one time aria tried to steal his ride but stranger almost bit off her face before she could hotwire him I'm really disturbed with the way you're referring to Stranger right now but I'm gonna let it slide there's a lot of things going on but Stranger's really nice to Sandor though he's a horse girl

he is he's a horse girl and like his relationship with Stranger is sweet their tempers are awful and it's a beast that could never be tempered by anyone but him a pure hearted maiden oh my god but yeah i mean they're that's his demon bro yeah after writing they get to lord harroway's town which is flooded though there is smoke coming from one of the towers and the boat chained to it and you know again we get it flooding rain rains a cast of your

imagery going on here. Yeah, and there's something interesting about how the town is like destroyed because it's always destroyed because somebody has been, you know, usually pushed out from whatever king hates them at the time, whatever king they fucked over or whatever, you know. But it's also just interesting how broken down it is, right? As like this is supposed to at one point have been one of the biggest towns of commerce in the Riverlands reporting to Harrenhal. And here it is, and it's just wiped.

The boat has orlocks and wooden horse heads on the fore and aft and it's a two-headed horse, house root. Sandor shouts and men appear from the wooden house in the middle of the deck. He wants to be taken across, but there's a price to pay. You gotta pay the troll toll. Sandor says he will pay. Arya's like, but with what? She's like in her head. She's like, you're poor, bitch. You're so

poor. Real. So real. More men appear and all of the men start to head towards them and Sandor moves forward to meet them. It's just manners. It's just basic manners to move forward to meet them. He's a polite guy, you know? Never mind that Arya's like he could take down two to three of them in her head. She's like, ah, I see what he's doing. Getting the jump. Yeah. Polite. I love how often the Stark sisters are like, oh my god, I hope there's not a fight here.

But if there is, Sandor Clegane will fucking win. Yeah, there's worse people to be kidnapped by, right? I love how often they're like, oh, they're like, I hate this creepy dude. He's about to lay these dudes out, though. A rite of passage for all Starks. I hope it just

keeps happening. I hope eventually all the Starks are like, man, he's so fucking weird. He's about to win medieval times, though. It's gonna be incredible. Incredible. Are you imagining, like, Bran watching through the tree, thinking, being like, man, that guy's weird, and then putting bets, like, gathering all

the children of the forest around, like, betting acorns and shit. Bran is going from tree to tree to, like, a little bookie to like take bets on the clagane bowl yeah that's how i would do it george no pressure though no pressure but like that's what i would do i think a large door opens when they reach the hillside and sandor urges stranger Altogether, the price to cross is three gold, one piece for each of them, and Sandor complains about inflation.

Real. It's out of hand. It's a pretty high price. Three gold dragons, like, goddamn. Yeah, it's reminiscent, too, of all the other things we've seen gone up in price suddenly in the Riverlands in wartime. Oh, that's meant in real life, yeah.

Yeah, in real life, too yeah in real life too i'm making i guess a real life parallel as well is that life is really fucking expensive and horrible yeah so bad imagine imagine it was only gonna get worse from when this book was written sorry this book was published what 2000 right so things did indeed get worse this is even before the housing anyways sandor agrees to pay when they're safely on the north bank but the man says no he wants payment up front and sandor's like gold on the north bank or steel on the south you know annie up the ferryman's not pleased and the dozen men that he has helping him aren't pleased either and when he asks how he knows

sandor lope sandor says knight's honor and aria's like hmm that's a fucking lie hilarious the absolute funniest thing he could have said right then so like credit where it's smiles into camera we're all we're all sleeping on sandor clige's sense of humor. He cracks me up so fucking often. Like, knowing what you know about Sandor Clegane, him being like, I'm a knight, bro. Like, what are you? Also, gold on the North Bank or steel on the South, like, bars, you know?

Lay down the track now. That fucking a guy what black and yellow I drop in bars yeah being so some he's being so smooth right now and Arya like is not appreciating it he's actually really smooth in all of these storm chapters I feel like like it's like you realize oh yeah good at this he's had to lie his whole life well how do you think he got all the way to the Riverlands as well from King's Landing? Yeah. Probably was, like, on a mission for the king. Smile.

Smile. I did not totally run away. Hey. Yeah. Hey, I'm just a knight. What do you want? Like, respect your veterans. What do you mean?

I'm just a guy. I'm just a baby. What do just a guy. I'm just a baby. What do you want? I'm a knight. I've got to. I like that they buy it, though. They're like, yeah, I mean, obviously he's a knight. Look at how good at fighting he looks.

And look at how nice his armor is. That's, like, literally all you need to do. Like, seem like you're good at fighting and have nice armor. And, I mean, they just, it's a class thing, right? Like, they just assume, like, clearly he's a knight. We've got to believe him. We've got to believe him. That him we gotta believe him job interviews that's how you're supposed to do them yeah no i i'm not lying this is my real job advice for all of you uh from mira embellish embellish wear a good outfit give the impression that you're good at fighting drop a sick fucking bar

please that's how you do a job interview especially an HR screen especially an HR screen also this ties into the later commentary on knighthood we'll get there we have a passage with the ferryman and Arya that'll do

the ferryman spat come on then we can have you cross before dark. Tie the horse up. I don't want him spooking when we're underway. There's a brassiere in the cabin if you and your son want to get warm. I'm not his stupid son, said Arya furiously. That was even worse than being taken for a boy. She was so angry that she might have told him who she really was only sandra clegane grabbed her by the back of the collar and hoisted her one-handed off the deck like a puppy i just love that scene so i included that i just like she's like so mad about being taken for his son that she was like i'd rather i'd rather

fucking tell everyone who i am than have that be going around. Yeah, there's that ferocious. Yeah. Scrappy-do, basically, is what she is. Yeah. She's scrappy-do in this chapter. Oh my god. And the familial thing.

It comes from that last chapter, too, and all that pride in her family and how mad she got about her dad potentially cheating on her mom. Even though it wasn't cheating. It wasn't cheating. They weren't even dating it was a break but she doesn't get that to her mind it's like they were always dating they're my parents yeah and they've never had sex oh no that's j jayme and cersei in their mind a different romantic relationship sandra tells her to shut the fuck up though yeah yeah and of course there's something great going on here with the ferryman right as karen as a psychopomp with sticks and akron and the coin imagery and aria's plot as we go along right that's a big one

obviously but there's something also about how the ferryman's not really magical and he's not a psychopomp like this isn't magic he's just like give me money to get across and now it's more expensive than last time and he's cheating people during the war right and it cuts through this idea of magic which is pretty prominent in aria's plot as we move forward from this book it gets louder and louder and what she seeks and the brotherhood and bravos and all these different things But it's like this here that should be a magical element is not magical. But there is something interesting in Sandor cheating death right by double crossing the ferryman, which happens here.

And book ends really well later with the end of his arc and storm with Arya leaving him to die. Question mark. Question mark. Psych. Not. And, you know, like if you don't pay the ferryman your soul is left to wander the earth side of the river for a hundred years they say at least so the potential

that that's similar to maybe digging graves for a long time right penance uh and two-headed horse boat is interesting too i wanted to call out that two-headed horse for House Root there. Interesting imagery, considering this town has suffered under the dichotomy of Targaryen civil war for how fucking long, right? Like Vhagar during the dance, burning it down. Maegor murdering all of House Haraway in anger. And of course, House Butterwell eventually getting it and becoming a conduit towards Whitewalls, right? Blackfires and targaryens

i just thought it was like an interesting historical place and that having two heads of the horse really symbolized that yeah two-headed horse while floating in glass um but i mean you were talking about the black fires and you know i i like what you're calling out there in regards to like all those civil wars because one of them does have two heads, right? Maelys the Monstrous, allegedly, allegedly. Allegedly, allegedly. Yeah, good call. to serve death something that i find so interesting about this chapter and really the way so much of aria's story in this whole book uses water but especially the way it's increasing with her and

sandor clegane together they really are both servants of death whether they want to be or not at this point for sandor clegane that's like long established. He has very often been a servant of death in a way, doing the Lannister's bidding as he has. He's someone who by the time we end this book, Sandor Clegane will have been reborn of fire and water, which I think is a really interesting duality that I don't know if there's another character in the series who I think is reborn of both other than him. So he's got dual baptisms they're kind of

going into that duality and i like it because you know you're talking about cutting through the magic with all of the chaos that the water around them is causing which i also love because they're two emotionally stunted people who won't just let themselves feel or cry or actually like neither of them is capable of taking a minute to go wow this fucking sucks and having a feeling about it the water around them it's death it's how emotional they are it's it's one of those things of if you do not deal with your trauma it will deal with you and it's also a really interesting thing that i think george r martin does really well which is like is this magic is it not magic it doesn't matter it's fucking your day up you can believe in magic or not and i just i love that it all comes to a head and it's all becoming so overwhelming and

it's with two characters who can't process their own emotions much less the like duality of man or the fantastical elements of the woods that they're in or anything like that so yeah it's the we've got our two ultimate cursed to be servants of death characters and they are trying to cross water so fucking all the time oh i love that as like the water is the trauma and you live with it because it never goes away you you ride the waves of it right like that's what they have to do and sometimes it's peaking in horrible ways it reminds me of we just re-watched the good place because we value crying all the time at home and there's that great bit where chidi talks about like death as a wave in the ocean right and how you see it and the way that it like the light refracts on

it and it's there and you know it's there and it crashes into the shore and it's gone but the water is still there and that the wave is just a way for the water to be right it's a conception of death from buddhists that the the wave returns to the ocean from where it came from and like i love looking at as as an actual spectrum right the water is the spectrum of all of sandor and aria's both trauma of how they deal with it how they live with it how they don't let it drown them or how they do i do think that like george r martin is very much inspired by tolkien as all fantasy authors are uh i know i'm really glad you're sitting down i wish i'd given you more warning okay prep me next time.

But there are Tolkien academics who will argue until they're blue in the face about what water represents in the series. And I think that's silly and goofy. George does a similar thing here where water is all of the things. You have to experience it in all of the ways it is delivering death it is capable of baptism it is capable of a part of a journey home and a life force and it is like aria and sandor are speed running this especially with the knowledge that aria is gonna get that vision of her mom in the water but her mom's gonna come out of the water and come back wrong. There's also this thing of she's dealing with her tulliness that she doesn't actually feel any connection to or have. And it's so important right now. And she's a wolf. She's not a fish. She's just here in the water. so you have him doing what water represents for these different houses what water represents is death what water represents is hope but it's happening all at once

they are as likely to be in the dead marshes as they are to put boromir on a boat to send them home as they are to experience a rain that gives them an upper hand at helm deep all of it is happening at once to them so it's like a theme that no one can really pin down or identify and i think it's this is maybe a real shit post of a leap but it's aquarius season i love this especially too because aria spent her journey to the south not taking in the landscape around her in a I recognize this town way. I see who the people here are. I know what this does. Her thing with Sansa is why are you sitting and experiencing this way?

I'm going to go pick flowers by the water. But when you attach yourself to nature in that way, that's unobservant and that's very free form. It's very easy for nature to then hand your ass to you and so the only way that aria is experiencing these towns that she maybe might have seen on the way down or in some other context she's only experiencing them as being absolutely destroyed and now being overrun by this natural force so it's all of these themes but it's also uh nature still gets this ultimate neutrality and it's about what the people are in and around it and i think that's a very tolkien approach to water that i love i also really love that you were saying that you know

and i think this is true throughout the series as well like that water it's hard to pin down exactly what it is because it does stand in for all of these things. You can look at it and how it acts within Arya's storyline, within Sandor's storyline, within other characters' storylines as well in different ways. And that's why I really like, you know, when we talk about literature, right, we talk about the lens that we're using, right? Because you can interpret it in different ways and understand i mean stories are kaleidoscopic they refract same as water does with light so love what you're saying there speaking of water uh i mean not not only all these things water is also it's a conduit right it takes us from one place to another it's a medium and and now we get our Arya boat prologue, right?

We have small boat before later on she gets on big boat at the end of this book, and she's warming up by the brassiere, and she goes outside to see the men rowing and wonders if the man with the crossbow, she's like, is that Lord Root? He doesn't really look like a lord, and she's like, hmm, I don't really look like a lady, though. And in the river proper proper the current is stronger they missed the fairy landing because it's so strong i would be so stressed if this were a video game i'd be like i don't know what to do

i don't know what to do we missed it it's over there it's over there everyone's rowing real hard they're like we gotta get back we gotta try and get to the shore now. And Ori thinks about, like, what if I jumped? Right? The train is going. Let's just jump off. And she's like, I'd be swept away before this hound could find me. Nice, nice. I'm like, can you swim? Unsure. We get an answer for that in a moment. She acknowledges, though, that she could drown, which she really could.

Yeah, the river's actually moving really quick. We get this little passage where John used to say she swam like a fish, but even a fish might have trouble in this river. Still, drowning might be better than King's Landing. She thought about Joffrey and crept up to the prow. I love that line, drowning might be better than

King's Landing. Ask your mom. Call your mom. Call your mom. Just kidding, you can't. Call your mom. Well, she's gonna answer the phone and your mom just kidding you can't call your mom well she's gonna answer the phone and be like well she can't because they don't have cell phones yes that's the unrealistic part of this eliana thank you for pointing that out you're welcome thank you we finally got there in the end well i think that's it i think you guys did what you set out to do with this whole podcast i think you can pretty much wrap it up now. It's the final episode. Every week we try.

They don't have cell phones. Every week we fucking try. They don't have cell phones. Nailed it. So I was kind of thinking here as Arya's like looking at the river and she's like, I could drown. Might be better than going back to King's Landing though it actually like I'm wondering is there like some part of her subconscious that's recounting that story that she had just heard of Ashara Dayne because she doesn't really know she's taking everything at face value she's like hmm but what if I just died in the water instead of like having to do all this stuff right and we have this like suicidal ideation that's coming up in in Arya's storyline and I think it really goes to show like how traumatic everything that she's been through has been right like what she knows is death and like

what she knows is hopelessness in this world deciding that that is also like that death is preferable to a life of captivity it also makes me even like think of Tyrion's storyline right he's someone who has definitely grown up very rich, very much mistreated, but also in some ways had quite a bit of class privilege in Westerosi society, and him thinking of, like, I would rather kill myself than be, you know,

I have the mushrooms here just in case. But also it makes me even think of, like, tying Arya to Sansa, thinking of, like, I'm gonna risk it all, including my life, just to, like, I'm gonna risk it all including my life just to like I'm gonna throw Joffrey and myself off of this ledge and the one who stops both of these girls is the Hound well yeah Sandor doesn't directly care um kind of I I think you also have to with the Stark sisters you see other people from noble families and like obviously you get, especially in Sansa's chapters,

you get so many other parallels to this. The dream of the story is breaking down. But how that story breaks down and what it means for you is so different from them because their parents were Ned and Kat. It's so different from them. When it happens to Cersei, it's sad that her dream dies but by that point she knows how to lie she knows how to sneak she knows how to dissociate her father's tywin what's she gonna do have an emotion you know it happens to peter balish what's he

what's he gonna do be whinier no he's gonna be sneakier he's out of wines uh with both sansa and aria they don't have the coping skills for this level of cruelty because their parents did not treat them like absolute shit so they immediately they're faced with this great trauma they are not practiced associators they are not practiced at cruelty so even before sansa is like i'll just push joffrey i could just take care of it when her father dies you know someone brings her milk of the poppy to help her sleep sansa drinks all of it she's like cool sounds good i'm out she's done like there really is this point not even of you know being able to have the knowledge of saying it would be better to be dead than to do this, of saying there are definitely worse fates than death is one thing assured.

And obviously at the end of this trip together, Sandor Clegane very much gets there. He's finally realizing the jig is up. Just take me out. But for Arya and formerly for Sansa, they aren't at an age and they don't have the life experience where they can even make that calculated thing of death would be better. It's just in that moment, they're so overwhelmed with what they're experiencing that the only thing you can think of through a lack of agency is, guess I'll die. And I think that for Arya especially, that's how she's being radicalized into being a child soldier. Because Ary for sandor because he's having to think not i was instructed to take out this person and i did it he's having to go i murdered a child named mika who played with this girl that i'm with right now aria similarly in the storm of swords anytime

she remembers her two or three kills she names their location she names how they killed she killed them she doesn't think of them as people so she's already starting to tangle all of that stuff together without understanding that that's what she's doing so it's it's really interesting to pair the stark girls with really i guess a more adult death wish in sandra placaine something to aspire to in a way one that's marinated for a while yeah there's so many ways you can dissociate you can do gambling you can do alcoholism

you can do sick jokes you can do dope bars like there's so many ways you can and then Arya makes it to the end of this journey and Arya does no longer has Schrodinger's hound that she can fantasize and dream about right to tell her what to do aria gets to the end of this and point blake experiences him going i've done bad things i'm a bad person just take me out and not only

is she confronted with this person going you're right sometimes people should just die aria can't make the choice to go through with it yeah because he's humanized yeah it's leaping ahead a little but i just feel like so many of the roots for why that's a conflicting moment are being placed here like it's you know they're speed running all the things on this road trip together it's because the river's so fast yeah um it's so fast but you wouldn't believe gotta go fast i just love that because it's such a journey that aria i mean even in clash and you know like the north men would never do that and this person would never and you know getting an overuse and being like oh he's kind of crazy and his people are kind of not so too it's killing them and like just that

whole entire identity of like man the reveal of how the world works and that like she goes on this journey thinking she's gonna kill Sandor Clegane and it's like I can't kill Sandor Clegane Sandor Clegane is suffering and I've just watched it yeah it's a big pain bro i'm in big pain the big kind like eight to ten inches of like okay wow i don't know what you're saying big i got i got big big wouldn't i wouldn't i love to be i love i love everything that you were saying there about aria and death and agency and how that's all getting wrapped up you all can't see it because this is a podcast but I was snapping um as we were saying that um and and how you know Arya is conflating giving other people death with agency over her own life and there's something there of

you know tying it back to the Hound or I don't know anyone in general right you hope to have the that something that you would at least have some agency over is like how you go out if like nothing else aria is contemplating that here sanza was contemplating that and that's uh what sandor was asking for but yet it still like was in someone else's hands and yeah i'm glad you're here yeah right it's so good that mira's here to go through all this. That was amazing. That just came off the top of her head. Yeah. I just talk to myself

like this about the Starks and Sandor Clegane, to be honest. When you guys aren't here, I walk around my house being like, and another thing. Another one. And you know, do you ever think about, and it's like, no, no one's in here with you. You're brushing your teeth. No one thinks about this but you.

Right now monologuing while you brush your teeth. Chloe thinks about it. It's so me for real. Yeah. It's me. Just know that when you're looking up at the moon, not the same moon, that's impossible. I also. We are under the same moon crying about Sandor Klinge. Literally, it's impossible. I also. We are under the same moon crying about Sandor Klinging.

Literally, it's romantic and depressing. One set of footprints. It was then that I carried you. God damn it. A shout stops Arya before she can leap. A tree is headed towards them. An uprooted tree huge and dark coming straight at them a tangle of roots and limbs poked up out of the water as it came like the reaching arms of

a great kraken feels like feels like foreshadowing because roots limbs weirwood tree shit you know supernatural stuff and then kraken and feels like you're on gray joy yeah hours the oncoming storm for real for real mr you're on there with his blood raveny failed jedi mentorship yeah or like it's all over huh do you want to give context just in case or no i have to yes yes in kung fu panda as you all know as we all know as you all know oh my god there's a fourth one coming out this year did you all know that no road. Road trip. Yeah. Girls in a Cannon meetup at the Kung Fu Panda 4 premiere. Only one Asaf book has been published since the first Kung Fu Panda. Okay, so in the first Kung Fu Panda, you have Po, the panda, and he's taken on as, like, a, as a, you know, mentee by the little red panda, Shifu, right? But Shifu has a former failed, like, protege who is super promising,

Tai Lung, but then Tai Lung, like, is power hungry, and, like, that made him not a good, like, potential protege, and, like, we had to defeat tai long the snow leopard that is you're on gray joy and then brand is gonna skadoosh that's how it ends with the skadoosh with the little pinky i'm spoiled kung fu panda i'm so sorry everyone all right we're gonna come back to that i'm sure someday you know in our kung fu Panda 4 episode. Yeah, a Kung Fu Panda 4. Guys, new podcast announcement. We're actually all starting a Kung Fu Panda podcast. Yeah, this is our soft launch. We're soft launching the podcast right here.

Not to break up boy genius here, but I'm about to Phoebe Bridgers out of that podcast. That was a deep cut. I know that one of our friends, Zainab, will appreciate that. Two of the boatmen catch the tree just in time. One of their poles snaps, but they thwack it away just in time.

The tree is gone, but not before it thumps them, so the man with the broken pole goes overboard. Arya thinks he could wash up downstream, but now she really doesn't want to swim in this, and Sandor shouts at her to get back inside the boat i legitimately feel bad for this man and for his co-workers and this loss yeah during this uh workplace injury death workplace death there's also some just great i think imagery here that personifies the boat just wanted to tell everyone go reread it i did

not put the passage in for some fucking reason um they're describing the boat as like shuddering when some of the debris hits it so good times yeah and to further piggyback on earlier right like again not a magical experience this is them dying and breaking their bodies just for these three golden coins they're not gonna get who aren't even they're not gonna get yeah they're not even getting paid god the't even- they're not gonna get. Yeah, they're not even getting paid. God. The fairy men keep fighting the river and they finally make it ashore, two miles down river of their destination.

He gets Arya and himself back on a horse. The boatman now wants six dragons for the passage, an extra for the man he lost, and Sandor hands him ten dragons via his very special fuck you, I owe you from Beric. He's like, here you go, this is from owe you from Beric he's like here you go this is from a knight the ferryman's like

what about knight's honor and Sandor's like knights have no bloody honor time you learned that old man damn boom mic drop you know I don't think Sandor is ill and chill with the do unto others what they do to you

like as a concept of don't do it he's like barrick did it to me now i do it to you bitch trickle down economics oh god uh here's a credit card also like really in a way this is about reaganomics because those were not unionized and they were not following i was thinking something about like the industrialization of these workers and how like there's no unions there's no one protecting i was thinking that i'm so glad you went there not to bring it back to tolkien once again unfortunately you did ask me to be here on purpose tolkien's great sort of enemy going back to that thing of like sometimes it doesn't matter if the water is magic sometimes it doesn't matter if you want to feel your emotions or not the water's here deal with it

industrialization and commerce are always the biggest enemy that you will face during war and this is one of those time because they're coming through they're destroying your town it doesn't particularly matter which man you serve or whose land you're on these noble families aren't going to come out here and fix this well there's a problem with the fairy who cares i'm organizing soldiers and i'm holed up in my house i'm not going to help you with that also the thing that taking them out being a tree that has lost its roots because of the results of all this i think is pretty beautiful and poetic again that tree does not know any of these people from man. We're no longer dealing with trees that know you.

This isn't Aria's woods. And it's just, it's a natural consequence. You can't put a price on the results of natural disaster and ruin. Yeah, that's a great point. And like, they're just, I mean, that's part of why they gotta hike up the prices right they're like we need to need something to survive and they're risking it all for like just this one ride because they think that's going to give them some money to i don't know live it's also it's sort of really interesting to have the dynamic of someone specifically naming a price at you during a situation like this feels

like kind of crazy because you know aria's just lost some friends who were like i guess i'm gonna take this job but part of what they're taking in those jobs isn't payment it's purpose it's having a way to put down roots so at this point you know this guy dies and even if you're like okay fine give me six dragons now instead of three even if sandor had had it where are they gonna spin those dragons you're the only dudes left in this area at this point what are you gonna do go to the store no it's like people holding on to this kind of the iou is as useful as the actual dragons would be because there's nowhere there's nowhere to spend it it's people holding on to this idea of commerce and currency because they don't have any other sense of control yeah because all they're doing is continuing it the same cycle

that's broken their bodies and murdered them in front of you by a tree yeah yeah and it's just like well maybe though if i could get coins out of this guy maybe one day i would spend them somewhere it's this sort of breakaway very futile yeah futile kelly clarkson break away yeah do you think that sandor klingin ever looks out of the window of his horse stranger and presses his head to the glass and listens to Kelly Clarkson's Breakaway. I think it would help him. He'll spread his wings and he'll learn how to fly.

Do what it takes. Need to survive. Make a wish, make a wish. Make a wish. Break away. The buildings with a hundred blocks. Oh, we got a bridge see if we just had a bridge we wouldn't have this problem wait literally boom kelly clarkson would never not give you a bridge kelly clarkson would never do that and she's doing kelly clarkson yes for king of the lord root okay vote Kelly Clarkson for Lord Root yes I want pins

they don't get to vote you guys we're changing all of that it starts it's never too late for now a real democracy like when Selina Meyer ruled campaign manager for Kelly Clarkson for Lord Root

I will show you that it is possible it is don't let your dreams be memes yeah the whole iou thing though i don't know just reminds me of tyrian again being like hey brown man plum what if i told you i could pay you all this stuff but like later later that works for brown man plum you know everyone decides he's like sure credit cards fucking work but anyway oh also sandor's a second son brown man plumb leads the second sons i don't know if that means anything besides thematically tyrian second son yeah tyrian second son you know not me yeah not me i'm not a second son sandor gallops off after he tells aria that it'll be hard for anyone to follow them because the river is really

hard and now those people are definitely going to make people pay up front now and she silently goes over her prayer she's like self-soothing and when the rain stopped she's shivering and sneezing and it's too wet to successfully make a fire and sandra's like i fucking hate fire because he can't even make it and i i just find i just find that scene so funny he's like i can't make a fire so obviously fires fucking suck that's it literally the one time i need a fire literally the one time bro i like actually needed you to be a fire and you like wouldn't even do it i do i like never ask you for anything i try to stay away from you i needed a fire one fucking time yeah and you can't even i won i won a fire god battle and i can't get a piece of flint to like go for it like i would be that would be i'd be done i think i'd walk into the woods and

no one would ever see me again that'd be my limit and then break away plays in the background that's what i'm here for and his eyes as George R.R. Martin says glitter and then you hear that that would end me actually god why send me off with fucking cowards man

I could have put so much Kelly Clarkson in that show I could have put so much Kelly Clarkson in there David and Dan watch your back I mean Ermin Jawadi what were you thinking you did good work and whatever don't get it twisted

you didn't ask Kelly Clarkson to feature once he did all these pop things in the wrong show I know he does stuff in Westworld but we should have been bringing Kelly Clarkson into Game of Thrones much earlier that's for sure Kelly Clarkson's Florian and John Qu earlier, that's for sure. Kelly Clarkson's

Florian and John Quill. Oh my god, I bet it would fuck. Ooh. Ooh. Okay. So they sit in the wet cold and they eat hard bread, moldy cheese, which I'm like, that's a trick question.

Right? Because all cheese is moldy. And smoked sausage. Sandor slices the sausage with his knife, and Arya gets ideas, and he's like, don't get ideas, and she's like, what ideas? I don't have any ideas. I love this. This is like a be self-aware challenge impossible for Sandor in this moment, because he's dealing with Arya.

He's like, you need to not get ideas about getting vengeance, okay? One, I'll win. I'm so good at this. Look at me. Two, it's not helpful. You know, he's like, don't get ideas about all this revenge fantasy. It doesn't get you anywhere. Making all these plans, wanting to have vengeance and kill someone.

What could that ever do for you, Arya? Nothing. Okay. You need to grow up and face facts. And then fully four sentences later fully like i think it was actually four sentences later sandra clegane's like anyway so what i'm gonna do is actually cut out gregor's heart i've thought about it and i think that's like the sickest way to go for a while when i was younger i was like i'll behead him but like that's not very metal so i

think what i gotta do is like actually cut his heart out like just like you just hello no no self-awareness none for me yeah it's different for her like do as i say not as i say i'm gonna do so a good mentor does right yeah he's like listen you still have hope left kid but me no no hope he gives her some sausage and explains i didn't actually beat your sister but i'll beat you if you make me so stop trying to kill me uh and sandor gives her props by the way for like looking him in the eye looking at his face and she calls him ugly and then he gives her a piece of cheese after she calls him ugly so i like to think good girl he was withholding cheese and

she was like well you know what you're ugly and i hate you and he was like lit all right cheese for the kid she is an asshole she's learning my little my my little muse my little grasshopper i also it feels out of nowhere it the transitions into talking about Sansa are insane. Clinically, this man needs help. I'll say it. Controversial statement. I think Sandor Clegane needs help. He's like, so that's what we have in common?

I'm in love with your sister. Yeah, he's just really, he's like, anyway, just by the way, I wanted to say that I want to kill my brother. Do you ever think about killing your siblings? Like maybe Sansa? That one girl that's your sister about her i don't i don't think about her ever i didn't beat her though you should know that that i did not like i will beat you up i'm not like being like i'm not like being tender or anything or opening up to you like i would fully beat your ass right now eight year old or whatever but like i did not beat sansa and it's and it's it's also like there's no reason for him to bring it up so you also have to ask yourself that at this point how often is

sandor clagain having to walk around and processing what led to him leaving king's landing and having to kind of tell himself like okay but i i I didn't, I didn't hit her. I wasn't one of the guys beating her. I wasn't doing that to her. And it's, you don't, you don't. Yeah.

I did not hit her. Sorry. It's all I could think. And I knew you were thinking, and I saw it. Yeah. I, as I started saying it,

I felt the ghost of, hi Mark, land on me. And I was like, it's too late now. I've already phrased it that way. I'm sorry, Mira. I'm so sorry. I'm quoting the room now.

It's fine. It's, listen, what a classic moment in cinema. Arya, in a way, is kind of his Denny. But let's not. Oh, my God. Okay. Wow. Arya is his denny if sandor clegane is in the room then aria would

be his denny but um there is a little doggy sorry what anyway i was talking about like horrific abuse and power struggles that's what I was talking about. But I think for me, it's a clue into how often Sandor Clegane is reviewing his relationship with Sansa and who he was at King's Landing and that leading to him leaving. The fact that he has readily available, I didn't beat Sansa. I'm just bringing it up casually that I didn't beat Sansa. I want like just I'm just bringing it up casually that I didn't beat her. To me, that speaks to how often he is thinking about what he didn't do for Sansa and the way he sometimes maybe was for Sansa. Because like I said, with Arya, there is a weird sort of gentility that he makes room for. Like he's still speaking to Arya so horrifically. that he makes room for like he's still speaking to aria so horrifically but like i said before this for sandor clegane i think this is an attempt at gentle parenting aria

the way he's just like well if you kick me i tie your legs if you bite me no mouth for you i think that he is like very weirdly reflecting on a lot of things and and i i almost wonder if there's a part of him that's like maybe this feral child could give me penance in some way yeah for her sister it's it's kind of a heartbreaking thing because in making the choice to leave king's landing he makes the choice to leave the service of the landisters which arguably is the right thing to do. But in doing that, he does leave Sansa. And I think that for Sandric Legayne, this is a guy who's never had any choices. And I think in his mind, he's like, well, when I was 12, I wish I had a choice. So he gives Sansa a choice. But now he's left her behind. And he's sort of like, why did I leave that up to a 12 year old? And so Arya doesn't get the choice. He's not like, Arya, by the way, would you like to go with me to the twins to your mom and these weirdo religious cult?

He's just like, I'm taking this. Bye. Well, and it's like the big moment for him. He is trying to encapsulate and make it his whole entire personality, right? That he didn't beat Sansa, which was by luck, because he was at the precipice of being forced to choose, right? Was he going to in front of that entire court beat the little girl? Or was he going to walk away and say no way? And just as that was about to be forced upon him you know everything kind of stopped all the drama was interrupted by tyrian thankfully but he also like not doing something is an action it's a passive action technically and he's using that as the one good thing he's ever done right the one good thing he ever did where now he's kind of reflecting on it constantly and saying well i didn't do that because i constantly and saying well i didn't do that

because i'm a good man i didn't do that because i'm actually good i'm actually good and that's what leads to that unraveling right later on with aria where he's like i took the song she never gave it like i'm a fucking man child mess sobbing um it all comes apart yeah break away yeah yeah it's um devastating it's very sex it's like you see like he wants to be a better man he wanted to be a better man given the opportunity was he going to be a better man then no maybe not only was he able to break away from it uh at the night of the black water out of his own traumas and yeah he left her behind to your point he feels so guilty because

he knows what she's there without him to maybe kind of protect her or him to like stand as a shield in a way and let it bounce off of him since she's a little newer to court life he feels so much guilt it's like this is the first time in his life that he's

made choices and so all the choices that he made were so big and now he just has to live with them and the choice that he made was asking sansa if she like wanted to hang out and she's you know like getting blackout drunk covered in like blood and a little bit on fire and being like hey really quick do i have permission to save you from this and she's like i don't know if that's the vibe and he goes all right fair enough i guess you would know peace and now he's just out here stone cold sober most of the time because like he can't go to the tavern yeah yeah coping is hard he's just here with his just him and with his thoughts that is pretty rough right you know a lot of people

they come to it at different times in adulthood 27 40 55 you realize wow fuck i've had choices i could have been making choices my life and as you said right he realizes wow fuck i had a choice and he finally makes a couple of them and he he's like, what have I been doing? So, yeah. Well, and this is the age where you start to like for our age range, you know, us ladies, it's kind of in that range where soon some of these choices that you make in your youth like do affect you. I'm a youth.

And Sandor is. Well, that's what I mean. You're 18. Well, Sandor's only 28, right? Speaking as a young ingenue, I don't really know what you're implying. Because I'm so young. You fucking bitch. Because I'm only just a girl.

But like for like an older woman such as yourself, I could see that. Wow, you came into our house. But like speaking as only a teenage girl who is so fresh and so new to this 9-1-1 i wouldn't i'm just like a little baby so i'm actually yeah just like all right if you two bitches would let me finish my sentence holy fucking shit jesus christ and i can't sandor is at an age where uh you know he's 28 and soon some of the choices you make as like a young 20 year old as a late teenager whether consciously or not start to like come back to you physically your health your social like skills and like the way you communicate with others your relationships or lack thereof like

these are things that reflect the the surroundings that you were raised in right so like sandor is starting to get a little bit of life spitting in his face because of the way he was raised slash not raised at all yeah his dad was too afraid of his brother yeah it's that thing of like wow this was bad the whole time and now all i can do is look at how bad it was yeah and i think that looking at it from a trauma perspective there is like there's a weariness and exhaustion even in the best circumstances even if you're a person with like an apartment and you're not at war in george rr martin's the song of ice and fire yeah there is a moment where you go i've acknowledged that i'm traumatized and now all i get to do is think about it now i have to think about how and why

and i don't know which pieces i should look at and which pieces i shouldn't look at and i've got to make choices for myself but i don't know how to do that because i was too busy being traumatized when other people were learning how to make choices you know what i mean like sandra clagand was not like he never got to do like the av club or the the school newspaper like he's fully never really gotten to make his own decisions until suddenly he keeps having these starks thrust at him who like show him these echoes of a kind of a younger person that he could have been and he feels i think even with aria he feels pretty powerless about it like some of the you know we'll get there but

some of the way he talks about rob later i think is really illuminating in that too yeah not only is he seeing these girl these little girls right um reflecting everything back at them i think you know what's cool is like they're they're really regarding him right they are truly beholding sandra clagane they look at him in the face and each of them gives him something different in regards to his humanity for that, right? Like with Sansa, I mean, she looks at him, there's- and then he's like, wow, this is someone that clearly didn't want to, and then she shows him kindness, right? She shows him that's a kind of mercy, right? And then Arya does so and she tells him- doesn't hold back right she tells

him exactly what she thinks of him and like so rarely has he gotten like just brutal honesty in that way i think like he just he gets brutality a lot from people right people who don't truly know him and she's someone who's like no you really hurt me here it's not just about your reputation that we had an encounter and like fuck you exactly that's a connection in a way i like that that they both are willing to look at his face for very different reasons but it's humanity regardless to reflect that yeah humanizing and totality like and and finding empathy in the other situation especially i think there's something interesting happening here in general with the dynamic between them as we move forward in the riverlands this is like the first chapter of their new buddy cop dynamic

you know buddy outlaw thing going on here and i love this it's one of my favorite tropes right those intergenerational relationships between like the age gap of like gruff slightly older you know character and young annoying what's the word i'm looking for not perky there's plucky co-host a little bit right yeah yeah co-host oh my god wait am i sandor and you're aria okay lots to discover wow because you're so i mean she's actually younger than the everyone yeah i'm the baby, I'm the old fucking cunt. It's okay. I'm old. I'm the matron of honor. I am the baby. I'm always the baby

and people don't realize. When I go to the seven, I always light an incense for old fucking cunt. That's actually my favorite. Yeah, my favorite aspect. I love to light an incense for old fucking cunt. To protect old fucking cunt. Ten candles. Ten candles for the old cunt. To protect him. Old fucking cunt.

Ten candles. Ten candles for the old cunt. Should we make fucking prayer candles and say that? Anyways, gloss over. Lots to discover. You know, this trope is common in a lot of old westerns. You get, like, the orphan child traveling companion kind of thing going on. And the Depression era, actually, is, like like a very common time this comes up in literature

movies etc you have like the orphan with the grifter making their own way whereas sirio and jackan kind of served more as karate kid or terminator 2 right or even a little bit of aria in eve's bayou i wanted to highlight a couple movies that are very much sandor aria uh relationship for you all and maybe some of you have seen some of these. We'll see if you two have seen any of them. But slightly more wholesome, but not really at the end of the day, is Paper Moon, one of my favorites.

It's actually based off the novel Addy Prey. Ryan O'Neill plays the lead with his real-life daughter, actually, and rest in peace, he just passed recently. Long short of it, it's set in the Great Depression. There's a con man who ends up taking this 10-year-old girl around with him who may or may not be his daughter in this film. People are like, you think it, but it never comes out and is answered. But it doesn't matter by the end.

But they become friends and they scam a bunch of people together and go through a bunch of different things. And she kind of rolls up when he needs someone to back up for him. And she's like, huh huh i could leverage this mister and she's like well i'm his daughter and helps him scam people praise on people and on their uh on their ways which is similar to how ari and sandor start being here as they survive and try to get themselves to the twins and after and slightly darker in some ways but maybe more akin to their relationship and dynamic is True Grit, starring Josh Brolin and Haley Steinfeld

and Jeff Bridges. But basically, Maddie Ross, the main character, has a craving for vengeance. She's a 14-year-old farm girl who hires Rooster Cogburn, Jeff Bridges, a trigger-happy lawman,

boozy, to help her find the man who murders her father josh brolin and avenge her father so it's a really great movie if you have not seen this it hayley steinfeld is fucking exceptional in it i love true grit it's just amazing it's a great coen brother movie but very much the sandor and aria dynamic going on in this movie absolutely because she is just like hell-bent on revenge for her father hell-bent on revenge for her family and then finally i actually was watching this before we got on because i am um i like a comfort film so leon the professional a favorite movie of mine where 12 year old

matilda's family is killed by a corrupt cop though her family's not that great necessarily to start off with her dad's a little crooked you know there's a lot going on not exactly stark family not like a good family but uh they get killed anyways by a corrupt cop and she's taken in by leon who is an assassin and she learns how to weaponize actual weapons like how to use real weapons as well as like her femininity and very very beautiful and also a movie that makes me sob at the end but highly recommend that and that's very much aria and sandor like absolutely straight up just aria and sandor murder child being taken in but i love this dynamic i love it in movies i love it in literature and i love it in a swath too george writes it very well i was looking up in literature. And I love it in Aesop too. George writes it very well. I was looking up the full title of this because it's insane.

But I actually, I quickly want to recommend two Korean action films for enjoyers of this chapter and also enjoyers of Aria. The first one, this is for people who are enjoyers of this chapter, but also ship Sansan. There is a film called the killer a girl who deserves to die and it is about an assassin who's essentially a house husband now and he's been charged to kind of like babysit this girl while his wife's out of town and shenanigans ensue i won't give away any more than that because it's important that you experience it yourself but if you are a sansan girly who is also a pro aria girly which you all should be on pain of death but i really recommend the killer a girl who deserves to die it is a strangely heartwarming assassin paired with a teenage girl story that i really recommend the other one would be the film The Villainess, which is a 2017 film. The Villainess is, it's like four

different genres in once. It is very much a film about vengeance, but I would argue that it is a coming of age film three different times in the structure of the film. That movie also inspired ballerinas being included as a part of John Wick's backstory, if that's relevant for anyone, as well as the motorcycle sword fight scene. Chastelski was greatly inspired by the film The Villainess, but it is very much an aria-coded film. And the assassin training school that she ends up in not only has ballerinas in it, but there is also fully a theater. So there's this element of like, when you're not being an assassin, your job to the public is to pretend.

And I think that's very relevant for Arya Stark enjoyers, but Korean action films do, they do vengeance and girlhood in a way that is so specific and really really resonates with me so i've seen the first one in the back i haven't watched it like attentively but i have watched it and i've not seen the second i've not seen the villainous so i have to i have to see that one for sure i love how you broke it down you know and tied it i mean like absolutely george is very inspired by i mean other stories in cinema and I mean you can see it revolve here you can see it come up again in Dunkin Egg what I what I like is that you called out specifically

like these like you know older outlaw soft spot for young girl it's it's a very different kind of I think dynamic and like twist or like genre of that dynamic yeah the heart of gold asshole with the heart of gold but also becoming like asshole with the heart of gold but also becoming like asshole with a heart of gold but becoming familial and like having a heart again growing a heart again i guess i guess logan is that too right god yes yeah i also think there's a parallel universe somewhere where you get like a tashiro mifune playing sandor clagain interesting kind of like fit because because in a way this is like this is like yeah this is him and he's in his yojimbo era kind of you know okay yeah there's no seventh samurai to be had where yojimbo but like nobody threw no one threw a feral child

into that movie sadly no notes though akira kurosawa no i mean i would never a good filmmaker kurosawa i think um doesn't need our notes yeah yeah i think he's probably i think he's probably fine i don't think he should include bedding with trees oh my god my uh my roommate mira just was watching his king leer the other night. So big Kurosawa happening constantly in this household, man. So they go back and forth, Arya and Sandor, about how someone worse is going to get her if she tries to escape. And she's like, no, you're literally the worst person that could have kidnapped me. He explains that Gregor would have been worse.

And you don't know Gregor. And she's like, don't tell me what I know, because I've already been captured by him. Which, of course, amuses Sandor, who says he will tell Gregor that when he cuts out his heart. I'm like, ah, yes. Ah, yes. We love a self-aware king. Great callback. Calling forward now also to You Remember Where where the heart is yes with him telling aria about a mercy kill i know that we'll get to that we'll get to that in that chapter more

it's also another film with natalie portman likely on the professional where the heart is oh yeah yeah where the heart is film i don't think i know that one the walmart baby yeah i'm not gonna give it up for the walmart baby speaking of uh i don't know I know that one the Walmart baby I'm gonna give it up for the Walmart baby speaking of uh I don't know if this is a heartwarming film or not what you were saying because I'm uncultured no I literally don't know I'm uncultured I've only watched Leon the Professional

of those three films that you listed throwing it out there Sandor has a good sense of direction like dogs do and I'm gonna just say Homeward Bound that's it could be an influence 1993 could be and that brings us to the end of the chapter it wasn't the first time he had talked of killing the mountain. But he's your brother, Arya said dubiously.

Didn't you ever have a brother you wanted to kill? He laughed again. Or maybe a sister? He must have seen something in her face then, for he leaned closer. Sansa, that's it, isn't it? The wolf bitch wants to kill the pretty bird. No, Arya spat back at him. I'd like to kill you. Because I hacked your little friend in two. I've killed a lot more than him, I promise you.

You think that makes me some monster? Maybe it does, but I saved your sister's life too. The day the mob pulled her off her horse, I cut through them and brought her back to the castle. Else she would have gotten what Lily Stockworth got. And she sang for me. You didn't know that, did you? Your sister sang me a sweet little song. You're lying, she said at once. You don't know half as much as you think you do. The Blackwater? Where in seven hells do you think we are? Where do you think we're going? The scorn in his voice made her hesitate.

But back to King's Landing! You're bringing me back to Joffrey and the Queen! That was wrong, she realized all of a sudden, just from the way he asked the questions. But she had to say something. Stupid, blind, little wolf bitch. His voice was rough and hard as an iron rasp. Bugger Joffrey.

Bugger the Queen and Bugger that twisted little gargoyle she calls a brother. I'm done with their city. Done with their king's guard. Done with Lannisters. What's a dog to do with lions, I ask? He reached for his water skin, took a long pull. As he wiped his mouth, he offered the skin to Arya and said, the river was the Trident, girl. The Trident, not the Blackwater. Make the map in your head, if you can. On the morrow, we should reach the king's road

and make good time after that, straight up to the twins. It's going to be me who hands you over to that mother of yours, not the noble lightning lord or the flaming fraud of a priest. The monster. He grinned at the look on her face. You think your outlaw friends are the only ones who can smell a ransom? Dondarrion took my gold, so I took you. You're worth twice what they stole from me, I'd say. Maybe even more if I sold you back to the Lannisters like you fear. But I won't. Even a dog gets tired of being kicked.

If this young wolf has the wits the gods gave a toad, he'll make me a lordling and beg me to enter his service. He needs me, though he may not know it yet. Maybe I'll even kill Gregor for him. He'd like that. He'll never take you, she spat back. Not you. Then I'll take as much gold as I can carry, laugh in his face, and ride off. If he doesn't take me, he'd be wise to kill me, but he won't.

Too much, his father's son from what I hear. Fine with me. Either way, I win, and so do you, She-Wolf. So stop whimpering and snapping at me. I'm sick of it. Keep your mouth shut and do as I tell you. Maybe we'll even be in time for your uncle's bloody wedding.

Oh, the thing It's gonna be Bravo, bravo everyone Brilliant, brilliant work Everyone BAFTA, Grammy, Emmy Any, any of them We're fully e-gotting Yes, yes

That's what we're giving you for that performance. E-Game of Thrones. E-Game of Thrones. Eliana Game of Thrones. That's totally what we've been building throughout this podcast, basically. That's why I keep casting everyone. I'm practicing for Eliana Game of Thrones. There's a lot going on here in this passage.

And there's a lot we're going to break down here. But I'm going to start off with the start of the passage where there's a talk of killing family members, right? He's like, oh, you want to kill your sister, right? You want to kill that family member? And Arya's surprised. She's like, whoa, whoa, whoa. People don't kill their family members. That's fucked.

And you think he's talking about the tension between her and Sansa but it's not it's not it's a swerve it's about lady stoneheart i'm in a relationship here with uh yeah i'd like to thank the academy for all my hard work as an aria killing her mother super pack i'm an aria killing her mommy influencer yes yes i've even convinced my wife i I've been influenced. Yeah, you've been influenced. No, but it's actually all over this chapter and I will say that like, I just seeing her come back to Westeros, I see her landing

in the Riverlands for sure because there's so much still to finish for her in the Riverlands, right? It definitely is unfinished business here. Even the idea of her leaving those carvings in the trees. And I'm just like, there's only one Arya, bro. Maybe there's other Aryas, but there's really only one Arya.

Someone's going to see that. Someone's going to find it. As we heard from Beric, these are their trees, right? They know every tree. Beric and Nam know every tree. They have people. Yeah. They might get away from him for now, and she might escape over across Braavos.

But there's no way that the Brotherhood won't at least come across it when they split up and go their separate ways or someone's going to see it. She was here. And I do feel that like she's the only one that's going to be near enough for it to happen other than like Brienne and Jamie. So it's either her, Brienne or Jamie that has to do it. And I think thematically signs are pointing a certain way i think it's an interesting parallel as well as much as it hurts my feelings but i'm the thing that i'm a truther about i'm a truther about spiritually aria is catlin's air and spiritually sansa is ned's air yes i am a great about that i think people who don't think

that sansa is like ned are cowards and they are weak and they will not survive the winter and their hair hallelujah sister hallelujah there's there's also this idea of sansa's story is about figuring out how to maneuver with a lack of agency and that's what she does in trying to save ned and then it backfires and she has to bear witness to the death of ned and aria is spared from bearing that witness aria's story is about finding agency through death and she will have to bear witness to the death of Kat in some way, I believe. And it makes thematic sense for her story isn't being a chess piece. Her story is stabbing things. You know, it's so it to me, it also parallels the two sides of the same coin.

Yes. Northern sisters, you both need each other things. It's the it also parallels. I think we hear it most with John, but I think this applies to all of the Starks. It also parallels, I think we hear it most with Jon, but I think this applies to all of the Starks. Let the boy die and let the man be born. And the natural order of how a new person reigns and also just how you outgrow your parents, whether you're doing it literally or not. The idea of them being your parents has to die for the next thing. So I'm a believer in that as well.

the next thing so i'm a i'm a believer in that as well and i so i just wanted to bring that it does parallel sansa bearing witness to ned's death and sansa attempting to spare ned's life through playing the game like the thing that makes sansa finally start playing the game really in game of thrones is she starts trusting her instincts and starts listening to her danger cues because she thinks she can save her father and i think the thing that's going to make being an assassin real to aria will be having to be an assassin for a person she can't dehumanize yeah i love the look at like the mirror of one is ned's death one is cat's death and in each of their own ways not with blame just with thematically what they are and you also said something that stuck with me of of course that great line about aria and sansa being the sun and the moon right and

completing each other and it makes me think of liza and cat who were also the sun and the moon and who completed each other and that sansa was there for Liza's death and Arya will be there for Catelyn's death, which arguably the system failed both of those sisters, obviously, in a bajillion ways. But I feel like they were with the sister that has maybe, like, the mirror look of this is what could happen to you from marrying such a great lord politically and where you fall for Liza and Sansa and for Arya and Catelyn, of course,

leading a rogue band of soldiers while you're undead. And other thoughts, but just shorthand. Uh-huh. Yeah, I think in this passage, there's such an interesting thing there with the way that he speaks about Rob. Obviously, Sandor Clegane's getting, he's getting more and more agitated as he's having that conversation. But when he speaks about Robb Stark, he's not actually being mean for once. He's very genuine, like he refers to him as the young wolf, which I'm sure he's a little backhanded about calling people by their animal names, because of course he is. People call him

an animal name all the time. But there is sort of this like there's no reason for him to like vocalize this because it doesn't matter if aria trusts him or not it doesn't matter if aria thinks he values her family or not because she's not going to come around on that but this idea that for sandor a part of this isn't just i'm not going to take you back to the lannisters because i'm done serving the lannisters there's this thing of like but maybe i could serve the starks and i think that one it's this thing of like letting aria know that he didn't beat sansa and his later confession to aria where in a way he wants penance for not doing enough. You know, like we were talking about earlier, not doing the something isn't the same as taking action. So he's kind of always looking for penance for that.

Two, he's someone who has never had a life where he didn't have to be of service. The only thing he knows how to do is come to heal and kill. I think there's an element of that there. He only knows how to do is come to heal and kill. I think there's an element of that there. He only knows how to be of service. But three, there's this idea of, but what if I could be of service to something greater? Like, what if, you know, I did what I did for the Lannisters, but I think there's a realization that the Starks are the kind of people who wouldn't have knighted Gregor.

there's a realization that the Starks are the kind of people who wouldn't have knighted Gregor. I don't know if he consciously knows he's realizing that, but that's, of course, a really big thing is that the Starks are not raised in a culture where knights are in your face and romanticized every single day. The romanticization of them is sort of distance, which I think is, you know, going back to both the Stark sisters looking at his face. I think that's why Sansa is able to have that moment where she says, well, then he wasn't a true knight. Because for Sansa, she's a little bit like knights have rules on these pages. I've always read about them from what he did. That's not a knight. They shouldn't have made him one if he did that to you because that's not the rules there's a distance between knighthood and chivalry and the corruption of it but at the same time that idealism that a lot of people apply to knights and that he doesn't believe in he's seen that idealism in sansa he still sees that idealism in aria and if like all of this talk about rob is that he is Ned's heir in every sense of word. So I think this is also the first time that Sandor Clegane is maybe even subconsciously reengaging with those ideals that he had as a child playing with his brother's little knight toy.

There are people that he could serve and he doesn't have to be a knight to do it and these are the kind of people who would kill gregor like that revenge fantasy still exists for him but it's becoming something greater like i i don't think it's something that he would you know obviously he hasn't been to therapy i don't think he had would have the words to acknowledge this or talk about it but his revenge fantasy is becoming greater than i kill my brother and die it's it's becoming i kill my brother and i am of service and i get penance for what i didn't do for sansa and i keep aria safe you know i think it's really easy at first glance to just read that as him being grumpy, but he throws out so many Stark specifics there that he's got no reason to. Yeah, I love that. It's also like what you were saying about his brother almost being like a weight

that he's had to carry, obviously, physically on his face his entire fucking life. And I think a little bit, believe it or not, to those listening, the haters life and i think a little bit believe it or not to those listening the haters listening i think a little of jamie chapters right we're really starting to get at this time in the books to the meat of jamie jamie in that last chapter in the lightning round what did he just do he went back for brienne he saved her and both of these men are chasing something within them that says like i am not a good man and i crave being a good man and i think that there's still good in me I think I could still do something good if someone would just give me a fucking chance. Maybe I can do it this time. Maybe I wouldn't choke, right? Maybe

when presented with the opportunity to do something good, I could do it this time. And I think about like, you know, Sandra's been shut out wherever he goes. There's no place for him, right? There's no place for a man like him. No one's going to hire him as a knight. There's no honor in hiring Sandor Clegane. His role has just like become nothing, diminished. His entire reputation has been tarnished. And I think about how Arya and Sandoror or aria had those moments with gendry

right where gendry was able to stay on as a smith and this was an opportunity for him to get ahead in the world even when being offered hey my brother will hire you he's way more important than these guys like won't you just come back with me for my brother sandor would literally murder for that opportunity he would ransom this child for that opportunity he's never had that opportunity he's been stuck babysitting the awful boy prince who wants to cut cats open for fun like and told you can't do anything other than just make sure no one does anything to him that's not a real role that's not a role giving you decisions or chances to do the right thing it's messed up there's also something about i feel like i've talked a lot about the kind of like natural elements of this with the water and everything else i think another

natural element that's going on here is uh you know he says that thing what business does a dog have with lions and what's so crazy is that the reason the you know the reason the clagans are the clagans in our house is because they protected Lannisters from lions. Like, so you have this backstory that points directly at the kind of like something, you know, something is rotten in the state of Denmark energy of the Lannisters. But also dogs have a lot to do with wolves, not to blow anyone's mind. Like Bolton. But it is this idea of like a return to a natural order it would make sense

for a dog to come to heal for a greater dog or a greater wolf you know the pack survives again that's not something i think any either of them can consciously think about in this but it is kind of an attempt to form a pack i think also this idea of like recognizing there being a structure where there is a pack at all. That's certainly I don't think a feeling anyone has about the Lannisters. I mean, I don't think that's a feeling Tywin has about his own kids. So it's fun to think about house sigils in like a silly mascot way. But I think this is one of the moments where, for me at least, it feels like George is really doing something profound and actually looking at the nature of what those animals are and why they're chosen to represent these people in this story. a very subtle way to point out that for all of his ferocity and skill and ability in killing he this is a situation he was forced into and i also really like what you were saying

earlier about he sees the starks as they're the kind of family who would not have knighted gregor not only because they literally couldn't um but also because the starks are people who have been able to see each of the Clegane brothers, I think, as maybe how Sandor sees who they are, right? Dead was like, wow, what the fuck, Gregor? And sent a bunch of people after him to bring him to justice. As far as Sandor knows, he's never seen anyone try to bring Gregor Clegane to justice before. No one did for him when he was a little boy, right? Like, he got away with it and

then each of the girls see sandor for his so he's like maybe yeah maybe maybe the kid maybe this king rob will finally be able to actually see i think there's also this is going back to a game of thrones but you know all of sandor's kind of mistakes have been as joffrey's shield as like this has been his gig this has been his whole life sandor clegane's interactions that he has had with rob stark in the canon of this story are seeing rob day one in winterfell identify joffrey as a little shit and a little snot and when they were training in the yard sandor cuts in on joffrey's behalf but rob stark is like fully prepared to lay his ass out like rob stark day one is like i will beat up this king because he's annoying and he's a snot

and i don't like him and sandor clegane is there for that. So I think that not only the Gregor thing, but he saw Rob be someone who immediately went, don't like that prince, don't like that at all. Not into that. And that's a whole thing, too, of thinking about how long was Sandor sworn to Joffrey. It's that thing of calling a parent into the principal's office and having to find a way to go hey by the way your kid sucks i don't know what you're doing but your kid atrocious individual kind of thing yeah yeah i think robert knows that he's just like checked out yeah it's been uh encouraged by cersei but yeah something else that's like in this ending

these ending passages right of that stood out to me as you both were reading it out because you did such a fantastic job in your dramatic reading thank you sandra says to aria i've killed a lot more than him i promise you you think that makes me some monster well maybe it does but i saved your sister's life too and And I feel like this is an ongoing theme throughout the storyline, this idea of monstrosity and owning up to and like confronting the monstrosity, not just like our as each person one, but like that is within ourselves. It makes me really think of two of our most important characters in the storyline, Daenerys and Tyrion, right? Because Daenerys has that explicit questioning within herself.

She's like, if my dragons did this, I'm responsible for that. I'm taking responsibility for that. And if they are monsters, then so am I, right? And then even Tyrion being like, the world has made me to be a monster, which is a fantastic reflection as well of Sandor's storyline. The world has created this narrative in which I am a monster. And yeah, I have done bad things. And so what do I do? Do I just lean into that? Do I just let the world define and like, be that kind of person? Or like, do I not? And like also wrestling with, you know, trying to find that agency and choice amidst all that trauma because i don't think we can deny that both denarius and tyrian have had like a lot of

trauma in their lives same as sandor so i think there's something really interesting going on with him being like sure fine fuck it i'm a monster but i did these good things too so what am i yeah with the the line you know aria saying wolves never cry and wolves can't cry i think it's having both her and sandor they're at breaking points in very different ways and it's this idea of like well wolves wolves don't cry there's no crying in here there's no crying in here. There's no crying in baseball. But everything around them is water all of the time. It's physical, real-world manifestation. One of the oldest literary meanings for water is emotion. Even in something like tarot and occult stuff and religious stuff,

you see water represent emotion so i love having these two foils who i would argue that they're both some of the most emotional people in this entire story everything around them is water and also that like wolves never cry thing is so funny because like in our first aria chapter in this whole series she runs away crying the first time we see john he runs away crying the first or second time we see john he runs away crying he likes to cry like a lot you guys are big criers actually you guys cry all the time what are you talking about you know you have like rob opening the window so that his wolf and brand's wolf can howl together like this idea that wolves don't cry.

We have been told in so many ways that this is a lie before that. And I feel like the point is being driven home by the fact that you've got these people going, we're fine. We're handling this. Wolves don't cry. We'll get it together and we'll make it there. And then everything around them is rushing water. eye we'll get it together and we'll make it there and then everything around them is rushing water and i think that's such a such a good uh physical manifestation of what the idea because crying is about being overwhelmed yeah it's about your body being if not emotionally physically overwhelmed

so to put this in the center where like you are not crying but you are about to drown that's such an interesting dichotomy i think and the only other thing is you know i i hinted to it a little bit if they come up it's baptism but i also think there's a duality here of like water and baptism and water maybe being a little bit more careful with what it brings back because seeing the fire seeing people be like constantly brought back through flame it's awful and it's brutal and these are people very aware that they're losing something and they're doing it anyway and obviously fire has a very specific meaning to sandor lagane but in the water they see water not bring people back in this chapter you watch it happen you know sandra clegane is

about to quote unquote die by the riverside ari is gonna dream of her mother's body in the water and then her mother's gonna come back as lady stoneheart there's a lot about the idea of baptism and what is or isn't baptism and i also like this sounds corny but i feel like we have to say it it is in fact a song of ice and fire and ice is made out of water like it can't be ice all the time winter isn't coming all the time but there is you know with it with you know sandor maybe seeking agency or penance or just a chance to be a good man or redemption, whatever he's looking for, this idea of like, but I could still serve. I could still be something else. I feel like the narrative sort of agrees like that. Sandor Clegane has been reborn from fire already, and he still gets to be reborn from the water later.

Yeah. Yeah. gets to be reborn from the water later yeah yeah i just think it's uh there's a lot there with how you know baptism by fire is obviously a saying but i i think it's just there's such a juxtaposition to how water does or doesn't kill in this and who water goes on to bring back or bless or anoint sort of moving forward in this narrative i love that i didn't really think about it but you're so right water is ice so real shit it is i think and i think that i think sandor clegane is the only character in these books so far who has both been reborn through fire and water i think he's the only person who has the dual baptism.

Yeah. Y'all's favorite could never is what we're actually saying, but. We could never do it. Yeah, never. He's not like other girls. Absolutely not. He is just a girl, but not like those girls. Weren't you saying that earlier today, Mira?

Maybe before we were recording. Probably. He's not like those other boys. Yep. Yeah, he's not like those other boys yup yeah he's not like other boys you wouldn't get it Sandor pick him Clegane yeah it is always interesting to see interpretations of Sandor Clegane that kind of stop

at like well he said a mean thing so he's a bad guy alright but Jamie just walks around with pretty privilege every fucking day. Can you believe it? Jamie has pretty privilege. Aria has little girl privilege. Yeah.

I'm like, oh, but we hate Sandor. Just, yeah. Everyone can't have taste, and, like, legally we have to allow people who don't have taste to continue reading books. For now. But when I run as campaign manager oh my god kelly clarkson one of the first things one of the first things kelly clarkson and i will change is that if you don't have taste you can't read you're out of

here i'm gonna root them out that can be that can be your campaign slogan and it's been you know i have to say thank you so much to the campaign manager for kelly clarkson's upcoming presidential run for lord root seat in the presidency of lord root uh mira who's been with us thank you for coming on we really did enjoy having you on we did and that's really like what kelly clarkson's all about you know i did it was important to not just girls important to kelly clarkson that i'd be here today with girls gone canon we are a girls gone canon space and we want to make that really clear that both kelly clarkson and myself when she

becomes she um she will make it a pro girls gun cannon world thank you nice uh asterisk please note this is all parody this is all parody thank you so please remember that everyone at home what no one's she's really running never yeah no one's i'm really running oh my god what are you gonna take from me my headset go for it what's gonna happen is the irs gonna come here and confiscate my water bottle from the dollar tree sue me it'd be hilarious mira uh please tell everyone where they can find you tell us where we got to look for you on the internet one last time yeah so first and foremost you can always find me in the hearts and the minds of the

people that's just something that's really important for me to be there yeah uh but also i'm lost wolfling pretty much everywhere i stream on twitch two to four times a week i'm on tiktok quite a lot actually and i do a fair amount of hot D content over there when it's hot D season if that is what you're into and of course I have be seeing you a John Wick podcast it's on a hiatus until we get more news about the ballerina film but there are about I would say about 20 episodes in which I have a different thesis about John Wick and not just its standpoint as a film, but it's like cultural relevance and its relationship to martial arts culture and how we process masculinity and violence and colonization and kind of all that stuff. So there's plenty of stuff for you to dig into.

Fun. That sounds cool. The good stuff. Yeah. Okay. Well, again, thank you. You can find Mirren on all those different platforms as LostWolfling. Yeah, check out her stuff.

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And by joining the Discord, you get access to a bunch of great channels, including but not limited to memes and shitposting channel, Fashion Hour. There are multiple channels for Historic Materials, A Song of Ice and Fire. There's a pets channel, which I think is probably the most important channel of all. Respectful Thirsting, because there's a channel for that. Come by, join the community. It's a lot of fun and you won't regret it. Thank you again for joining us, Mira. It was a blast. I have been one of your hosts, Chloe. And I've been another one of your hosts, Eliana.

And yes, thank you, Mira. Thank you for joining us here. Thank you for the support from Kelly Clarkson. Oh my god. Anytime. Kelly Clarkson's always here for you. We'll be back. We'll be back with Aria

10. Oh my god. Soon. Bye. Bye.