Girls Gone Canon Cast - ASOIAF Episode 228 — ASOS Epilogue, Merrett Frey

Episode Date: September 20, 2024

She don't speak, but she remember... AND SO DOES OUR SPECIAL GUEST, PAT, who joins us to remember pretty much every single thing about the Freys that you didn't know you missed about their family! Come hang with us and our special guest for one of the best and mind-blowing chapters of ASOIAF Where to find Pat Pat's Reddit account and essays: https://www.reddit.com/user/ClankingDragonInn/ Sanrixian's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/sanrixian  Sanrixian's Twitter: https://x.com/sanrixian Sanrixian's Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/sanrixian   Kissed by Fire Podcast: https://x.com/kissedpodcast   Background music: "Right Behind You" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/ ---------- Eliana's twitter: https://twitter.com/arhythmetric Eliana's reddit account: https://www.reddit.com/user/glass_table_girl Eliana's blog: https://themanyfacedblog.wordpress.com/ Chloe's twitter: https://twitter.com/liesandarbor Chloe's blog: liesandarborgold.com Intro by Anton Langhage

Hello, and welcome to Girls Gone Cannon Reads A Song of Ice and Fire, Episode 228, A Storm of Swords, Merit Frey, epilogue featuring our friend Pat. I'm one of your hosts, Chloe. And I am another one of your hosts, Eliana. And yes, finally, after all of these years, we are here at the Frey epilogue with the only person we could do this with, Pat. Hey, Pat. Hey, everybody. Thanks for having me on. I can't wait to talk about the phrase.

This is like the Pat chapter. I'm really excited to get into it. Pat, you've written so much about them. And you're going to talk a little bit about that as we get into it. But where can everybody? I don't know, you're on what blue sky? Are you on blue sky over there? Where are you at these days? Thinking, dragging in on Reddit is where you can find some of my essays. Then I'm on tick tock, but I mean, I don't post or create any content. So there's no need to look for me there.

So yeah, that's your piece. You know, that's for like, everyone should have their own tick tock to just be. Yeah, I think that's how you and I, well, I use tick tock also for looking up soup recipes. You were just talking about be. Yeah. I think that's how you and I, well, I used to talk also for looking up soup recipes, you were just talking about soup. Yeah. Cooking and other nonsense. Yeah. I was looking up these essays whenever we started getting into this and some of

these were written seven and eight years ago. It's like, Oh my God, we have been talking phrase for a long time. Yeah. I know. And that's actually what, like, when I think about the phrase, I think of you. I also think about you when I think about the Black Fires. It's a whole ordeal. We won't get into that one in too much length today, but you are a big Black Fire supporter

of some things, of some of their rights and some of their wrongs, but not all of their wrongs. For sure. But the phrase are more fun. The phrase are much more fun, but you know, when it comes to the Blackfyres, I just wish everyone would look at it from Dana's point of view for a second. You know, that would help everybody, but we don't need to get into that. Yeah.

Not today, at least. Hopefully we can do another episode about that with you, for sure. And who knows, with Night of the Seven Kingdoms coming up might be a little Black Fire discussion to be had. That's true. I thought you were gonna say with the news about blood and fires going underway. Yeah, that too. George is writing the second part of Fire and Blood.

I'm shocked at this news. I'm in awe. Give us blood and fire. Blood and fire. It's fire and blood but backwards. Whoa! That's a nod to the Blackfires, right? I mean, so. Whoa!

Because you're going to be talking about the Blackfire Rebellion, so that's what it's going to... mostly what that second one's going to be about, I would imagine. Yeah. Red and black upon the red. Oh yeah. I'm excited to hear about that. And because it's going to bear so much on the main story, right? As well, pretenders that rise. A lot of relevancy, which is why we don't even have the answers to all of the rebellions yet because there's so much stuff that's pertinent to the current storyline. So it'll be very exciting. It's a race. It's a race. Indeed.

Well, I feel like I have also thought a lot about the phrase, but kind of forgot a lot of things once upon a time, long, long ago. I used to do, what is it? Freight Friday or whatever. Yeah, I forgot what it would be. We had like a clever name for it. Maybe it was, oh, it was Thank God It's Freight Day. Yeah.

We would do posts on Reddit about the phrase. You would pick out a fray or so every Friday, and then we would kind of do a deep dive on them. Well, I shouldn't say we, I caught onto it later and then I tried to piggyback onto that, yes. Well, I'm glad. I think it actually could be time. It could be time to bring it back. Who knows?

You kept it alive. God, you were the big phrase supporter keeping things moving in those comments cuz you know I will say yeah, I used to love those posts I think that's actually like Fat Walda joined in and like did half of those posts too Yeah, that was where I don't know my love for more minor or for lesser houses comes from I think is like our ass Waf old days the old days when I was a younger woman Yeah, now I'm definitely old and I would say the phrase did intrigue me when reading this epilogue back in the day because it was it wasn't just like

Magical things or important things or it was a little more normal something that I could grasp a little more like if I was a high Lord son, like I feel like it'd be this, it wouldn't be a magical beast in a cool place at court and an awesome job. It's like, you're probably going to have some heavy issues and you're probably going to be, you know, not a very important person, but the background of Merit Frey himself was fascinating to me. And I immediately had to be like, I need to map out this family. This family seems like a train wreck that I need to be a part of. Yes.

I'm excited to get into the train wreck. Little housekeeping before we get into the train wreck today. We will have a special bonus episode out this month September for patrons in the Stranger Tier and above to be announced. Keep your ears peeled over the next couple weeks to learn what that'll be. And in the meantime, if you're a patron, I highly recommend joining the Stranger Tier because we just released Unleash the D, Season 2 Episode 4 with our friend Megan D. BirdieD Cosplay and Costuming. And we talked about the House of the Dragon costuming of Seasons 1 and 2, as well as Game of Thrones and other medieval influences and other costuming and historical influences.

But we talked about this for about an hour and 40 minutes and it's out for public, audio, everyone can listen, patrons in all tiers and above, so that includes Honor. They have access to a video version of this that has full, like, references to everything we're talking about, including stitching, including different costuming techniques, including costuming that was made by Megan, and some costuming I made, actually, just references to costumes in-universe and out-of-universe. It's really, I just recommend that. It's a better version to watch.

So you can check that out over at patreon.com slash girlsgoncanon. And you can also find a backlog of 70 plus bonus episodes if you're in the stranger tier and above. Check that out. Catch up on our Hot D and Unleash the D stuff. We also put out an episode with Joe Magician that should have come out a little bit before this so catch up on that as well talking about magic in House of the Dragon. We wanted to say goodbye to the show for a little bit when we can get back to the good shit.

You know, the the shit that matters. Blood and fire. Oh, my God. Just kidding. I'm sorry. I mean, yeah, maybe that's the book we want, George. Hey, I like them all. Give me whatever you can. I'll take more Dunkin' Egg. I'll take anything. Sure. Just just give me something. Yeah, give me something for the pain.

Yes, and let me die. Well, someone's going to die in this episode of fun. Not us, Mary and Frey. Just just just to be clear. Just to be clear, yes. But yeah, this is not an only murders in the building podcast. Oh my god. We're going to tell you right now it's Merit, he dead, but we are going to tell you how he got that way and it's going to be an excruciating history. You might be wondering how he got here.

Records grad rat. Normally we do a lightning round between chapters, but we're between not only POV characters, but books, and not only books, but like an ending chapter, an epilogue, so this is gonna be a remix, a remix lightning round, and we're going to find out what kinda happened in A Storm of Swords, and why're going to find out what kinda happened in a storm of swords, and why Merit's here. Once upon a time, the Starks were on a mission to free the Riverlands, the North, and the Vale from the cruelty of the Crown.

Well, again, without the Vale. So Catelyn Tully Stark aids her son's war council after the death of Eddard Stark and calls on the Freys of the Crossing to create an alliance. Let us and their armies through so we don't face certain death. And King Rob will take a Frey wife. The Freys have wanted their roses for a long time and it turns out the Tullys really never ever gave them their roses. They really didn't. Yeah. and then slaughter the Starks under a guest right at Edmure and Roslyn's wedding of the season. What is this, Bridgerton?

Yeah. Which of course brings us to Merit Frey. Oh, Merit. Oh, Merit. You know, the ninth son of Lord Walder Frey and the fourth son born of his marriage to Amory Craighall. Let that sink in like ninth and then fourth. Not only are you so far down the succession, like you aren't even like, you're the ninth, but also you're the fourth.

That's insane of that marriage. Like not even the first couple of marriages. I don't either. I'm trying to imagine it, Eliana. Use your imagination. I can't, it's too different. It's too different having this many siblings. Yes. I think I did the line of succession thing.

I believe he was like 41st or something before he was hung. So there's 81 or so heirs all together. He's like dead middle of the pact. So, I mean, he is lost on an island almost. This is just like my CK3 games, man, because I just knock chicks up like and they die and my guy will be like 63 and I'll be like, take another younger like there must be another younger, more beautiful wife. And then he gets like another like seven kids on her and then gets another one.

Like, it's insane. some of these motherfuckers I've been playing are nuts. So I get it. I understand Walder now Spreading it just spreading it but there's about six marriages between my two parents So my oldest sister is 22 years older than me. So whatever we're a very very small community So my dad had my dad had three wives. So when people ask me what family I'm from, I would always say, what franchise do you mean? So like, you have to have a good humor about it. You know, I mean, so I always say I'm from,

I'm from the second franchise. The youngest from the second franchise. So, you know. So where are you in the line of succession? Does the eldest sister, does she get to inherit everything? Like how fucking progressive is the succession? Yeah. Yeah. 100 100 percent. My my my oldest sister is in charge of everything.

Oh, wow. And then I'm the youngest. And then there's halves and steps and everything else in between. So like when Merritt's explaining, I give me my nephew in this epilogue and he's like, actually it's my great nephew once removed. That was a joke in little league to me. It's like, go get your second brother's half cousin's sister cause they're here to give you a ride home or something. You know, that's what they'd give me a hard time about. So all of the Merritt thoughts ring true. Oh my God. Fascinating. Yeah.

My dad is one of many. My dad is one of nine. So I like get it, but from an outsider's perspective, I'm like, I don't understand that in my immediate family because they just did me. For sure. That was it. Hey, when you get it right the first time, you don't have to keep going. Right?

I think it would have been fun to have. I've discussed this before, younger siblings. I don't. Oh my God. Although then again, be careful what I ask for based on. Yeah. Anyways. So.

Well, Merritt comes from the third franchise, the Henry Craighall franchise. I guess I never put them all in a list before to think about them, the wives of Walder Frey. And that's on me. That's very misogynistic of me. Maybe that's an internalized thing. So I think we should talk. Why do you hate women? Why do I hate women? This just in on the podcast, Chloe hates women. His first wife was actually Lady Para-Royce. He had a Royce wife. Then he had Lady Serena Swan, Lady Amory Crakehall, Lady Alyssa Blackwood, Lady Saria Wendt, Lady Bethany Rosby, Lady Inara Farring, and Lady Joyous Arrenford.

The first thing to me that I noticed was location, right? These are all kind of spread somewhat across the Trident, the Riverlands, all the way to the Crownlands. A lot of them are actually, like the Royces and the Swans are ancient houses quote unquote, proud of their lineage, right? The Royces being the most first men of them all out in the Vale, and Swans being noble and old and proud from what Tyrion talks about in Clash of Kings. So like these are really strong marriage choices for Walder. I 100% agree. And I also, this is one of the first essays I ever wrote on the Freys and

that was that they are actually a serious player in the game and should give a little more respect for at least of, uh, taking in hand a little bit more here. And basically after eight wives, Walder Frey has made alliances and six kingdoms, plus the crown lands. Three of those kingdoms had marriages to great Lords. He also placed family in the, with the faith of the seven with Bravo sea merchants and the alchemist guild of Lill's and lists and also three maesters of the citadel. So you could get the most, most important thing that's knowledge. And I think they are in house Rosby house Hunter and somewhere else,

but he can keep going on in the veil. What's going on in the crown lands. All of these marriages seem to be very astute at minimum. That's really interesting about the three maesters. I never really noticed or thought about that. It's like a spy network of your own, you know? I mean, you have a whole fully functioning economy because you've just pumped so many out. Yes.

That's how it works, right? But I'm serious, yeah. I mean, that's the goal. Like you said, like you're building a small community basically. Like, I mean, the phrase, they could fill Harrenhal out. Like, I get why the Dragon Show talked about the Freys possibly wanting Harrenhal and I'm like, yeah, they need a bigger fucking house for what Walder's about to do, dude. Which is fuck. Yeah, which is throw down. And I mean, even with the Faith, Lucian Frey was about to take

over as High septin before. Whoa. Yeah. He was the, he was the one that they, the rich people were going to put on before the warriors came in and overthrew them. So they have had to with foresight and intent, put these people in places of power where why would you need someone in Braavos? Why would you need someone at the alchemist guild? Why would you,

a lot of it has to be, I'm sure we have to put them somewhere, but it seems like he's made sure to put these people in a lot of good places that would benefit house fray and merit goes to point out when it comes to Lord water, Walter, blood is blood. He takes care of everybody that's in his family. And he seems to be doing this. He seems to be a terrible person, but he seems to be doing this for the betterment of his family. So I mean, I'll give him at least that credit. So yeah, sure. He's like a mean, nasty old cunt, but like he's like still like gives

them a place to live. Like he's never turned them away. Yes. You's true. It's interesting too because like I think about it now you're talking about how he has so many he's all he's done is like invest in this one resource, right? Which is manpower, the family and then placing them in strategic places. It's very like strategy board game kind of thing. You know, like big time. He's like, I have a bridge and I have kids and I'm going to put them both to use, you know? So yeah. Yeah. It feels like maybe George was also drawing a little inspiration from things like, I don't know, Kattan or whatever. CK three. No, I'm just kidding. I understand that's an anachronism.

I do wonder like the first man thing is interesting, right? Cause the crate calls are also an old first man house, the Blackwoods, first men. And then Housewent has Heron Hall. So I think that's another like, that's just a great place to just put children, right? Like not, no, it's not actually now that I say that out loud, but I meant like quantity, not quality. Like you can get rid of a lot of kids at Heron Hall. You can send. Yeah. If you need to get your hands on a piece of land that's going to help your giant family, you've got the right one, right? Yeah. And the next like greatest house in the Riverlands, right? Because they're up

next. They're number two. Like if the Toleys went down, if the Toleys fucked up, like the Wentz, yeah, they are kin to the Toleys in some ways, but they have the big castle. You can straight up be like either bend the knee, serve me, or kill you and take your big castle to fit it with a garrison. Like that's, that's what you have. It seems like Lord Walder is, is very much aware of Verus's riddle of who has the power, you know, so make sure you get in with the rich people, make sure you get in with the people of the faith, make sure you have a good standing rich people. Make sure you get in with the people of the faith. Make sure you have a good standing army of your own.

So the people will decide who they follow. And if I have all of these things, well, that, you know, the riddle is now moot. So I mean, it feels like they're unserious people, but they're deeply serious people that you have to take seriously. Yeah. Yeah. They're the McPoyles. It's like he figured out, yeah, they are McPoyles or like Trailer Park Boys, you know?

Trailer Park Boys. I haven't watched that one. You should. It's a classic. It's such a classic. Not just that though, like you start realizing like Walder figured out how to min max this right. Like you figured out exactly how to play the game. Like it's like does does it even feel good at that point?

Winning when like you learned how to gamify the system by just pumping out children and by the odds that one of them will land the right place. And I wonder if that's where his little snide comments come from all the time. Like, oh, you mutton head merit. Like he's making fun of him because he's never learned to play the game. He just kind of sits around to wait for someone to give them something. So that's why he, that's why he actually responds to lame low Thor or the black Walder or the bastard Walder, because it's someone he can play with.

He's 93. He's, he's married to a child, you know, so he needs some sort of Somebody to bounce stuff off So I wonder if that's just why he's so snide just because he's playing the game at an old man mean level You know man makes you feel sad for him wizened and evil amazing incredible incredible character Evil. Amazing. Incredible, incredible character.

Uh huh. All it would take if you were, if he was just nice to someone besides stevron, it feels like that's the only person he was nice to. Like, I don't know. Yeah. Maybe you should have split your time a little more. Yeah. Him and him and Ned did not think about the after they were gone thing. You know, you have to set up your children for after you're gone. So it's great that you invest as much as you did while you're here. But after you're gone, let's make sure they're taken care of. So I don't think we've grasped that far part of family. So, uh, yeah, Merritt's family, right?

He's married to Maria Derry and his daughter, Queen Gatehouse Amy, we've talked about her before. Amory, she is a widow, she's 16, paid up the blue for, right? Merit's daughter, Walda, Fat Walda, a maid of 15 years until she gets married off to Ruth in the future, but we're not there yet. Merit's daughter Marissa, a maid of 13, and Merit's son Walder, the one with the misnomer Little Walder, a boy of 8. He was fostered up at Winterfell as a ward of Lady Catelyn Stark. And we'll see. We'll see what happens, right?

EMILY Indeed. STACEY With that plot. And that plot. Well, let's jump into the chapter, and we start this chapter at Oldstones, where Merit thinks the Riverlands look unnatural, blanketed in snow. The snow is melting away quickly, but he still thinks it's a bad omen. They lost the better part of a harvest, and winter has come early. Beneath the castle ruins, the lower slopes of the hill were so thickly forested that half a hundred outlaws could well

have been lurking there. They could be watching me even now. Merritt glanced about and saw nothing but gore, spracken, thistle, sedge, and blackberry bushes between the pines and gray-green sentinels. and blackberry bushes between the pines and gray-green sentinels. Elsewhere, skeletal elm and ash and scrub oaks choked the ground like weeds. He saw no outlaws, but that meant little. Outlaws were better at hiding than honest men. Merritt hated the woods. If truth be told, he hated outlaws even more. Outlaws stole my life, he had been known to complain when in his cups. He was too often in his cups, his father said, often and loudly. Too true, he thought ruefully.

So real. Too true. Often and loudly, the two worst parts of drunk people. Being the castle drunk didn't distinguish him in a good way from the rest of the fray brood he knew, and he thinks on how he once wanted to be a great knight. He continues that train of thought, thinking, my wife's a shrew, my father hates me, my children are worthless, there's no reason for me to stay sober. And yet here to break into some more family history, but my family had a taverns and restaurants growing up and me myself have also had a drink or two in

my day. So a lot of this reminded me of just excuses for merit and kind of disappointing and who he, who he is as a person and you know, why can't I have drinks? What have I been through? My dreams were crushed. What about me? And then the really the kicker is I don't even drink except I just had those three drinks. Like, wow. Yeah, you know, I, I feel a lot of ways about Barrett. He's incredibly pathetic. Like, my god, just like a fail son, right?

And a lot of that is the cards that he's been dealt in some aspects, but also, like you were saying, I think Walder kind of only had so much focus for so many of these children, and then they just kept coming. And after a few of them, like, do you really? After a couple even, like, they keep having kids, then you have grandkids, then you get the great grandkids, and I don't know, man, it's uh, Walder did not teach all of them the way that he feels right about ambition. They didn't really teach them to do that. And Merritt's line of thinking falls really close in line with lies that addicts tell themselves. Like,

I can stop when I feel like it. I need them to cope with my problems. I have nothing to live for without it. And he's fearful. He's anxious. He has difficulty building relationships with those around him and his siblings. He considers spending this great bag of money, right, that he's supposed to be using to ransom his family member to get booze. He's addicted, and it comes a lot from his past and what he's let kind of consume him. And it's really sad, especially when you think about what he's gone through that we'll talk about in the Kingswood, and when you think about Americans that are battling substance use disorder,

I mean, 2023 there was like 16-17% of Americans suffering that, 48.5 million, 12 and over, and 10% of Americans 12 and over have alcohol use disorders. So then when you consider that a quarter of the adults in America have disabilities, like over 70 million are self-prescribed that they have disabilities or self-disease when they censure, you know, like that's just who says they have disability or who's been diagnosed and has been counted with disability. So 5 million adults with disabilities have substance use disorder. Like, let that sink in, right?

And a coexisting disability. About 10% of disabled folk in the USA, and that's just who's on paper. And you see Merritt here deny it because he doesn't want to be that number, he doesn't want to be somebody that's just like existing empty and he doesn't want to confront, I think, you know, who he is and what's happened to him and how to live with it. And that's something that people struggle a lot with. And I think a lot when it comes to something like alcoholism where people will get into whether you're born into it or whether it's something that you did to yourself or whatever. I think the Frey family is a perfect area for something like substance abuse to

take root because the one of the biggest things they've let happen is they've passed apathy down generational apathy to each other. So it's all what's my value. What does my dad or my grandpa think of me? What cousin do I need to be nice to? Does my brother love me? If he doesn't love me, where can I my grandpa think of me? What cousin do I need to be nice to does my brother love me? If he doesn't love me, where can I find someone to love me? My mom's don't matter like so whatever it's Whatever you have something terrible happen to you like Merritt did where he was kidnapped. He was tortured

He was beaten almost to death So this is very traumatic things. Then you go back home to a place where you aren't loved and you aren't cared about. And it's sad and it's scary. So guess what you're going to do? You're going to get shit house. So it's, it's kind of just, it's awful all the way around. Yeah. It's like, it's emasculating to go back to that home Right knowing that you've had the shit beat out of you and like how was Walder going to speak to you about that? How is he gonna treat you about that? Like quite obviously he's very open with being cruel at court and like some of those fears just like taking hold

It's so sad to think like how they grew up like fighting like fucking dogs retention and fighting to be like the air fighting like fucking dogs for attention and fighting to be like the heir. Right. And like there, that's not healthy to re I've seen succession. Like that's not healthy to raise people like that. Having to prove your worth to your family is not love. That is, you know, love is love and you having to prove you're worthy to be able to be, to stay in the same room as someone that has more power than you or has more leverage in you.

That's the furthest thing from love I've ever heard in my life. So that's gotta be rough. And like you said, he just got beat up his one worth to his grandfather. I think grandfather Sumner, I don't want to get too far ahead of myself here. Or to his dad is fighting and he seems to feel like a failure in that as well. So it makes me wonder if a little bit of this might be like even somewhat of what we might see with a Sandor POV. Hmm, interesting.

Yeah. Or even like, I mean, you were talking about how he comes back injured right from fighting the Kingswood Brotherhood is and then ends up developing, you know, alcoholism was, was he like genetically like predisposed to it or not? Unsure, but as you were saying, all the conditions are ripe for it in terms of wanting to escape this. And it makes me think of like, George is very inspired by the Vietnam War. Is he thinking of the veterans coming back injured and developing substance use disorders when it comes to pain medication, right? Because I do think that there's a difficult balance there when it comes to pain medication, right?

Because I do think that there's a difficult balance there when it comes to, he is using it to self-medicate his pain. I don't think you can deny that his injury still harms him. He's got that chronic pain issue. And so what do you do? You do what you can to get rid of the pain. And how do you balance that and developing a dependency? And I think it's actually really well placed to put Merit's chapter here and to give him

this aspect of characterization, because we don't see that in the other chapters about Merit necessarily. Maybe a little, but for it to come after Tyrion's final chapter in Storm, you get to like really see a very microcosm of the way that like Tyrion starts to become the character that he is in a dance with dragons, right? You're starting to see like these patterns and how that evolves in characters, but also like in people, like these are the, as you said, the circumstances that can lead to someone becoming that. What do you say what George is referencing, I do wonder if it's the

Vietnam veterans coming home or maybe it's our, our, or, or any veterans or our society. I would say more specifically American society of we love to say support our troops and we love war stories and hero stories and merits isn't a hero story, but he still was a troop and he still needs to be supported. And he's not a broken man like we get from the Septin speech, but this is, this still is a guy who, who went and fought and he has shame and he lost and he didn't do well. And there's not a lot to be proud of, but he's still, you know, this is what supporting our troops looks like. You have to help this guy.

This is the guy that needs help and it's not fun reasons or great reasons. And it's nothing to beat your chest or feel great about this. This is the reality of humanity, you know? So I wonder if it's not really like a thing on veterans or maybe it's more of just of this is how we treat those. We've deemed to be thrown away. This is what it looks like when they come home. That's right. like a thing on veterans or maybe it's more of just of this is how we treat those we've deemed to be thrown away. This is what it looks like when they come home.

This is what it actually looks like, right? This is, I mean, a broken man comes in all shapes and textures. Agreed in this story. I really do think so. And what else are you going to do? Get fucking addicted to opiates to milk the poppy? You know what I mean? Like, yeah, you could. But it's like you either go from, you know, cirrhosis or you go from that.

He doesn't have any money, so he can't get any milk of the poppy, you know. You just said he has three maesters in his family, and you're telling me he's not going to get some. But shut up, Pat. Say they're at other castles and they'll steal your secrets. So again, you can't go to them for help because they're just going to turn around and hold that against you. So. Well, trade the secrets for the anyways.

Yeah. Anyway. Yeah. Get off topic here. Get. We're now just we're now a podcast discussing how does one make heroin. And so no, no, we're not. No, we're not. Well, it's all about the Poppy. No, anyways, it is, but it is. He feels a headache coming on, he being Merritt, and he does get them chronically, as we kind of mentioned. He can't really afford one, though, because he really needs to get to the top of Oldstones to make the exchange and ransom back Peter Pimple.

No, this is fucking real. This is real. Like, I remember my dad being like, I have to do this thing now before the pain really, really kicks in, right? During the time that the medications are working. And it's interesting because of, like, you know, he's got a headache and he's thinking, well, I don't know, I am sober right now. And then he's like, except for, as you said earlier, right? Oh, except for those three drinks that I already had. I'm like, okay, so you're not sober. I will say random other things. September, when we are recording this, is also recovery month.

So in case you all wanted to know, but just random PSA regarding alcoholism. If someone has an extreme case of alcoholism and just suddenly stops drinking, I've heard of people hearing like, it feels like they're listening to a radio or voices in their heads. These are hallucinations and they can happen during withdrawal and they can be fatal. So if it happens to you or someone you know, like if you are trying to quit or you know someone else who is, get them to the hospital ASAP. So PSA from Girls Gone Cannon. Absolutely.

For sure. When Merritt volunteered for the job of taking the ransom to Oldstones, his father laughed at him. He thinks bitterly on that and tells himself to calm down because it's not like this is the Kingswood Brotherhood, this is the Lightning Lord's sorry crew. They can't scare him, right? Nothing like putting trauma like right back on your kid, right? Like oh if I go home without Peter My dad will laugh at me again. What is this? Tywin, right? There's some real

Yeah, also Anakin meme right they can't scare him, right? Right? Right? That's all I can think about. Honestly, this is such a smart way to show us the Brotherhood in action, other than what we see with Arya, right? We have already seen this breakdown of who some of these players are through Arya, and we almost sympathize with them because a lot of them we already know in some aspects, but this is the complete opposite. With Arya, we were subverting the whole idea, getting to know them, and I'm like, no, throw

that shit out. They're bad in this chapter, they're scary. We're getting scared by the Brotherhood if we're in Merit's shoes for the first time, and it's interesting that this is almost the first time the story makes you take them seriously, in a way, especially with the reveal of Stoneheart. Yeah, and really interesting because they're gonna splinter in a million pieces soon enough, so hmm. Hmm.

I wonder if, like, is there within, you know, the story and stuff, like, a mirror then between the Brotherhood and even, like, House Frey? And then you're within, you know, the story and stuff like a mirror then between the brotherhood and even like house fray. I don't know, Pat, you can tell us now or you can tell us later, like if you think that they're going to like hold together when Walder dies or like if they're going to be like the brotherhood and splinter apart. Interestingly enough, I've actually wrote an essay on that as well called house phrase seats on every council.

And basically it's, uh, what's going to happen after, uh, Walder dies and everything splits into factions. And mostly I think big Walters got the idea to kill his way to the top. Uh, black Walder has this idea of sleep his way to the top, but more than likely you're going to have a situation where the new King of whatever area is going to appoint a Lord or lady of the twins. So some in game after Walters gone things is, uh, I would say big Walder and Hostin has been chosen by Stanis.

I'd say Sandor and Cynthia fray Sandor and Cynthia fray are wards with Harry the air and the veil. They are actually, yeah, they live with Cynthia Wayne woods. So Cynthia Wayne woods wards are Harry, Harry, the air is Sandor fray and Cynthia fray. So whenever, whenever Sansa marries, uh, Harry, the air, her lady in waiting will probably be Cynthia and Sandor Frey is the night as the squire to the night of the bloody gate. So Sandor Frey already has

access to the veil. And if Sansa by being at the bloody gate and if Sansa makes him Lord, boom, there's Sansa by being at the bloody gate and if Sansa makes him Lord, boom, there's Sansa's access to the North. So Sandor Sandor is the option. Oliver fray with egg on black fire. Since Oliver's a house Rosby. It's toast. He loves to get behind a good cause.

That's always going to fail. Bradmar fray is at Braavos. Of course you have people like the lady at the waterfront and all Braavos traditionally wants to get rid of slavery. So if Danny Targaryen would pick up Bradmar Frey, that way the Braavosy bank can keep tabs on what's going on. Bradmar becomes Lord of the Frey, Lord of the Twins. So Danny can get access to the North so she can take her troops up so she can fight death because she actually gives a shit. Then you would have a, the last one would be like John snow or brand would be the

last option that would name a Lord of the twins. And I don't think either of them would care. Like I think they would say whoever fought fought Well, whoever defended the land you can you know pick yourself up and I'm a Perwin believer What about Perwin? I think Perwin could do it. He was president in the Riverlands recently. I say he's a nice so that's always a Is one to vote for when it comes to house fray, that's actually a very rare thing. So I didn't know this was a democracy, but I like voting.

There's enough people in this family that it could be. Okay. They could start a small nation. Oh God. Yeah. And mostly, mostly to these factions will do good to send some phrase away and whatnot, but I mean, whenever you look at how Walter has the twins set up, I think his last marriage is to an Aaron for it.

I believe it is. And, and they are his vassal house. So I think that'll be the last obstacle for whoever gets named as the new Lord of the twins is, you know, that these people around his orbit have been making sure they have a crack at it as well. So, but I would, I would think no, no matter of no phrase scheming is going to stop like a queen Sansa or a, you know, a King brand or a queen Danny of saying, no, this is the new Lord of the twins. So, but yeah, my, my, my votes are big Walder, Hostin Sandor, all of our, and Brad and Brad Mar.

So for anyone out there keeping score at home, Yeah, we're going to the sports betting now, you know, VB- Yeah, we're doing sports betting now, you know? VB- Yeah, right? Like, each one, like, Sansa has her horse, and Brienne has his horse, then... VB- Danny, um... VB- And Stanis, like, and Stanis has one too, yeah, right? VB- Uh... VB- Merit is thinking about bailing to get drunk. VB- And he's like, Peter Pimple's not really even worth it.

And then he's like, okay, I should be kinder to Peter because his wife is cucking him with his brother, Black Walder, and his pimples come from possibly sleeping with sex workers and getting the pox. Black Walder also sucks. He takes what he wants. Peter's wife, Edwin's wife, Fair Walda, and possibly even the seventh Frey lady. Lady Frey, uh oh. We need a spinoff on this. I am dead ass. This is what I want. I want a Frey 40-minute dramatic but also situational comedy starting from the, I don't know, like the the mid

250s era and like starting to like wax it forward like and doing time jumps because if Ryan Condole did it I could do it too I'm just saying Like Agatha all along WandaVision style, you know start at black and white eventually come into color One of my favorite things about Black Walder is, is he's this brooding, scheming, scary, terrible person and he is just playing Days of Our Lives to get to the top. Yeah, literally. Can I guess who his cousin is? His cousin, his sister-in-law, everybody, yeah, but it seems like on next episode of

Days of the Twins and Black Walters just, you know, yeah, sleeping with his mother-in-law and his cousin and his sister-in-law, he's like sweeping out of a balcony or something in a robe. I don't know. He just seems like it seems like such an over the top situation. It's a Targaryen cosplay, you know, like I'm serious like they're Targaryen cosplaying Yeah, step-grandma is like a weird that's a subgenre. I didn't know about um It's it's it's yeah, that's who the seventh lady Frey would be step-grandma

Stepmom Step grandma. Step mom. Wait, I thought Blackfather was the son of... Oh, no, you're right, right? The son of Ryman. Yeah, step grandma. That's a new... or step... hold on. Oh, I guess so. It's definitely not new. I just want you to understand.

Do not Google if it's new. Do not Google am I coming up with this for the first time? Because you will be, yeah, it's not new. Oh wait, no, Step Great Grandma. Step Great Grandma. How's that? Maybe that one's new. That's not new either. Google it.

Google it. Let's find out. How is that not very Days of Our Lives? That's the most Days of Our Lives thing I've ever heard in my life. I'm having an affair. I'm having an affair with my step great grandma. Waiting for Stefano. Like, where is Stefano? Where is he?

I should isolate that as a sound clip. I will say it's interesting how he kind of started. I don't know how he started, but the people that he sleeps with close to the top, like para and his brother's wife, his brother's kids. Um, I, I feel like he's trying to at least make sure to take care of himself to where if everything hits the fan, he will be the only like real legitimate air and option to where everybody else will either be solely to or be just considered his actual kids.

You know, it's kind of a way for him to say, Hey, I'm now Lord of the twins. You're my bastard, but you can be my legitimate son and you can skip 50 spots in the line of succession if you back me. So you have those further down the line phrase from a house Aaron for two doesn't have a chance of being picked or given anything great. That's a way for him to like, it's a different way to play the game, you know, of getting your line to the top. So I just think for, for a scheming guy, he's just kind of like very afternoon soap

operative. Stefano Frey, Stefano. To song try to figure out. Yeah, it's Black Walter. Like, is he hot? I think he has like gross big energy. Like, I don't know, know like I think like he has a sexual vibe about him Yeah, very like he's skinny He's skinny with long hair and he's like quiet and brooding so you're gonna get you know a couple options out of that one right there just

Also a little scary because of that like because yeah I'm going to do and like the rumors surrounding him, like, I feel like that's probably a little sexy too, you know? For sure. He's willing to go there. Oh my god. Yep. You're right. He's a total, like, Byronic goth boy, but also, like, might strangle you a little too

long and that's kind of sexy. That's right. He's Edward from Twilight. Wow, I don't know about that, but. That's right. He's a he's Edward from Twilight. Well, isn't that the whole point of Twilight is like the dangerous things now protecting you. Yeah. So like that's true, I guess. I guess. Yeah. Black Edward, don't judge a book by its sparkling cover. Yes, it is. It is a book, I guess.

We got this. We got this line here. Yeah. Small wonder he refused to marry. Why buy a cow when there were others all around begging to be milked? Fire, straight fire. George. This is actually, you know, this is actually fantastic. George agrees. No, it really is about the others. Oh, my God. Oh, man. Yeah, it really about the others. My God. Oh, man. Yeah, he's got some bangers.

We can put that one up there with fat pink mass. Yeah. But now I would say the only thing of the little udders comment reminds me of the first time the first time we met Lord Walder was the second Blackfire Re Fire rebellion at Butterwell's Castle, and they are cattle ranchers. So the Freys have always been looking for free milk. That sure butter cattle ranchers. That's funny.

So Merritt does decide to go get Peter for sure, because he's also like, uh, I need to get him because I don't think I'm gonna be allowed back without him. And it kind of reminds me a little bit of Quentin Martell's story too, which starts a little... starts gaining traction and then quickly ends after this book, but I think you can see a little bit of that. You know, I gotta prove myself to the family. And then die. Uh-huh. Exactly. For family. And then die. Yeah, exactly! For sure.

I like that. Yeah. Merit knows that things are about to change at the Twins, one way or another, when Walder finally kicks it, right? Dies. Sir Stevron had been groomed for heir, but he died at war with Robb Stark. Sir Ryman, Stevron's son, was thick-witted, stubborn, greedy, and then came his sons, Edwin and Black Walder, who are far worse.

Lame Lothar seemed to think these fray heirs will fight each other before fighting the rest of the line, that they hate each other first and foremost, but Merit doesn't know if that's a fortunate thing, like Lothar kinda makes it out to be. While Walder had ordered the Red Wedding, Lothar had helped plan it right down to the songs played. Lothar's amusing to drink with, but Merit would never turn his back to him. We have this line. In the Twins you learned early that only full-blood siblings could be trusted, and them not very

far. It was like to be every son for himself when the old man died, and every daughter as well." Okay, well, true. That's true, to be fair. It's probably very much going to be every fray for themselves. But also feels unfair. The whole only full-blo blood siblings could be trusted and it made me start to like reread all of the half siblings or bastards. Bastards in the family. And nothing really stuck out. I mean, they're all pretty, yeah, not great.

Not all of them. But I do think this is so fitting and we're gonna get into it a bit later too that this is of course where Catalin told Rob, it's not John that we can't trust, it's John's children, right? At Oldstones. And here Merit is thinking the same thing. Ah, those bastards. You can't trust them. Oh, for sure. And just to also bring home, or just to remind us how slow Merit is on the upkeep, Lothar's basically quoting Littlef finger to them of chaos as a ladder. And this would be, this would be great for us and the family.

Like just figure it out, man. I feel like Lothar, no wonder big or Lord Walter loves talking to Lothar because they are speaking in code and they are loving it and they're having the time of their lives. So where, uh, Merritt's not picking up on what's being said of you need to pick your side and things like that. And Merritt's also think, and also Merritt's, whether he realizes or not subconsciously or not, he's thinking there's going to be a phrase civil war because he's thinking whoever the new Lord is, why he's saying he's going through the line of errors right now. There's Ryman and

there's Peter and all this other stuff. But then he's also saying, well, whenever my dad dies, whoever takes over. So he kind of consciously or subconsciously knows there's going to be a family civil war. So, and he's already counted himself out, which is interesting, too, that he just knows he has no place in all that, that he'll just fall in line. Yeah. Well, he won't because he's going to die. But rip. Yeah. It's it's interesting that you bring up the Catlin and John

Catlin's quote about John's children, where that's the only thing Catlin ever did wrong ever in her life. Here we see her coming, coming in this chapter. So that's quite fitting, I guess. Her local haunt. Oh, nice. You could say I was going to say that when he dies, it'll be a fray for all. Ah, oh, love it. Love it. Put the points on the board. There's a lot going on here right now. Negative 800, negative 7 million. You've lost points for your team, Eliana. That one was bad, but it was pretty good. Thank you. You're welcome. So while a few

phrase we get to enjoy the family house, the rest of the phrase would be cast out under the new regime. Which worries Merritt, I don't think it should, you don't gotta worry about that Merritt. He's almost 40, too old to become a hedge knight or a knight. He has no land, he barely owns the clothes on his back. He's not smart and has no career opportunities. At least he's honest with himself with that, for this at least, I don't know. I think he does have career opportunities, but he could, he's just got to try. I'm like, men fail towards the middle. Come on, Merit.

As someone who just turned 39 a month ago, like that one hurt pretty close. Cause of course I read this in my twenties and now I'm almost 40. I'm like, Merit, do not say you're worthless at 40, please. Meanwhile, I'm like suicidal ideation jokes every other minute. Now a decade later, it's going good. Yeah. All I have is to make fun of my buddies who are actually 40 and I'm only 39. When did your eyes go? When did your eyes go?

Is your back out yet? What's up? Oh, I can't wait to do that to y'all. My eyes are already really bad. You can do it now, Chloe. I already kind of do make fun of you. I say or better. I don't know what's up with that. Yeah, I don't know what's up with those eyes, but they do be seeing now.

But I think a lot of what Merritt's thinking right now, it's just like, man, if you again just had a little bit of self analysis that you could do, if you could just see the world around you live in reality a little bit, he's just like, I got it so tough. What am I supposed to do? It's like, think about everyone else in the river lands, you know, the people that you're supposed to take care of, that you have the social contract with. Like this is everyone's world because the choice your family made and you're

sitting here like, man, I don't have enough stuff. I mean, like, as you said, right? Like there's lame Lothar and like, Papa loves him because lame Lothar actually like fucking does something and daddy's little psycho. Yeah. Like he, he was born disabled also. Um, you know, he didn't like, I don't know if he experienced his chronic pain or not, but like, he didn't get it like while out there, but he's like, whatever, I'm

just going to have purpose and stuff. And he was like, let's go. Going to make a killer playlist for the party. Actually. Yeah. That is what he did. Yeah. Him and little finger, the more and more I think about it are basically the same person,

right? I mean, where a little finger was cut, they call it stick to stem and, uh, uh, lame Lothar has the lame legs. So they have these things holding them back that everybody knows about and they're scheming and they want to get to the top and little sociopaths. So I mean, little finger is a plague on the realm. Could you imagine if that plague was your brother and you like had to deal with them? So no, I literally cannot imagine if that plague was trying to hit you up

every few years, like being like Catlin you up. I also kind of see the Laris, right? The Laris with the lame Lothar as well. Yeah big time It's just drawn from the rivers cat left little finger on red poor guy I don't know. Yeah, not even that she never even opened it remember Oh, that's right. Just not deliver. That's right. Yeah, pull the Jamie on that shit put this in the fire So merit has this very inspirational inner monologue that I think we should read here. The gods gave me no gift but birth and they stinted me there. What good was it to be the son of a rich and powerful house if you were the ninth son? When you took grandsons and great-grandsons into account, Merit stood a better chance of being chosen

High Septon than he did of inheriting the twins. I have no luck, he thought bitterly. I have never had any bloody luck. You've heard of second sons. Get ready for ninth sons. That could be the show name, ninth sons. Oh yeah, ninth sons. The soap. They could start advertising themselves as ninth sons handyman service. When all your hedges are sworn, sometimes they just need trimmed. That's ninth sons handyman service.

Honestly, if he had done that, then maybe he would be happier. Like actually. Maybe. Because like, Lim Lothar was 12th, you know? That's worse. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If you, if you, if you would do something, anything, instead of just sit back and wait for life to come to you.

So that's one of the first things he says is I have no luck. And sometimes you do have to make a bit of your own luck, you know, where a lot of they say preparation and something and something meets something about luck. Like, uh, that's all it is just preparation and you know, readiness equals luck or something like that. So I think you have, you have to do something in this kind of shows that you have bad luck, but you're also kind of a turd. His whole life was like musical chairs, right? Like that's literally it's musical chairs and you better be prepared for when the

music cuts and he wasn't ever prepared. And it's weird because he actually has like this great history, right? It's not like he wasn't given the opportunity to your point. He squired at Craig Hall for Lord Sumner. He planned to be a knight. He was robust in his youth, like Hostine, but now he's grown soft and fleshy in part to the Kingswood Brotherhood, where he caught a pox from Camp Follower and then was captured by the White Fawn, and then he was ransomed back by Lord Sumner, but took the blow to his head from a mace and his fighting

days were over. Thus came the headaches and he was sent back to the Twins, where he was married off to Maria Derry. The Daerys were in favor at the time, but after the marriage, Aerys lost the throne, and then the Daerys lost half their lands, wealth, and power." And I'm like, that's on y'all. You liked Aerys, you know? Uh-huh. I'm just kidding. That's what the Daer. You like Darius, you know? Just kidding. I'm just kidding. That's what the Darius get for being loyal.

Yeah, fuck loyalty. Right, Pat? That's right. Was that the red and the black I heard? Oh, oh. I pander when we have Gus. Eliana, don't act like this is now. Oh, I mean, I don't know. Could have been worse for him.

He could have been born a little small folk girl. That's true. That's true. I wonder what Merritt's life would have been if he just wouldn't have got hit in the head with the helm because it seemed like his grandpa, I'm guessing something interesting, at least loved him more than his dad did. He at least of ransomed him back. He trained him.

He was going to keep him at their castle. So it seemed like he had a place and even merit goes out to say that after he got hit in the helm, his grandfather politely said, you know, sorry, buddy, you know, I just, I can't have you here. You're just one too many miles the feed and your dad has got a lot more money than me. So I'm sending you home. So it's kinda the mace really the help mace to the helm really is what ruined his life. And that's kinda really what set him down a path, which just kinda starts to where I start to feel bad for him. You know,

there's times where he's clearly an idiot and clearly deserves ridicule, but there's times like this where the, the one male in his life that did love him and care about him and ransomed them and was there for him and tried to teach him and take him under his wing. Well, you weren't good enough to make yourself relevant enough to matter. And that was the lesson he learned from that. And he went back to a place where apathy is passed down generationally. So that stuff makes you really feel for the guy.

Isn't it devastating? Cause that environment, there's no way for that environment to nurture him at that point, right? Like what they hold important in the phrase for their part of their culture of their castle and what their family holds important is not that they just cast him aside and like, yeah, we can say their society, their culture, how they act. And I'm like, no, it's everywhere. He'll never be a night. He'll never have a lot of money because of his marriage. So, I mean, it's just any value had it.

Then he lost whatever battle he was in. He has terrible headaches and he's a drunk, so nobody is going to care about him at all ever and that's just a very lonely feeling I would imagine agreed He does seem lonely that is actually something that seems to be coming through about his character as well Which is I think interesting considering that as you said right he's surrounded by so many people in his family It reminds me a little bit of I don't you guys watch scrubs but JD always had JD always had like Imagination your little fantasies during the day and and one of his fantasies his best friend Turk is Batman and he's Robin and

He looks to him and says even in your own fantasy you play second fiddle And that's kind of what it reminds me of Merit Frey, where he's viewing himself through the prison that other people view him in. He's not even, he's not even self-monologuing. He's just talking about himself, how other people talk about him. So it's kind of where he's so removed from any sort of control in his life that he just talks about himself like he was not himself almost. So what's the opposite of third person?

Right. None. Not a person, I guess, in his case. Whoa. That could be a podcast. Not a person. Not a person podcast. Feels like I'm riffing on something. I don't know. That's right. No trademark issues there. What's he gonna do? Sue me? That's why he married me, folks. That's right.

Because you can't go against me in court. I don't think that's how that works, but I'm gonna say it is. So you have your own white fawn thoughts on who the white fawn actually was. Can you tell me of them? Yeah. on who the White Fawn actually was. Can you tell me of them? Yeah, so when he brings up Wendel the White Fawn, I think she is probably from House Caffron. House Caffron is in the Stormlands. Their sigil is a calf, is a fawn. Oh! So that's probably a pretty good nod not and also dang it. Who was the Kingswood Brotherhood's? leader the smiling night

Yeah, it seemed like they were together. They were both from the storm lands Mostly where like that would be relevant to right now would be there were Targaryen loyalists after Robert's rebellion and Merits kinda in a different married into Targaryen loyalists, even after he was captured by them, it seemed like he learned nothing from these experiences or should find anything relevant. And now he has them walking into a another brotherhood and they themselves are of rebellion, backing a rebellion from a former leader. And this time he's going to end up dead.

But I think Wenda comes from house Catherine and that's why she branded him as such. So interesting. Interesting. I don't know what I believe. So that's why I wanted to know. Thank you. I'm like, I just don't, I don't, I never know on that one.

Could be anything. Y'all were talking about cattle herders earlier with the butter. Butterwell is interesting. Yeah. Branding. I just think if he would have he hates Wenda and hates dairy and all this other stuff, and he's going to end up hating Lem Lemon Cloak here in a second. But it's very interesting that all these

all these outlaws that have ruined his life and everything else, if he was proactive like them, he'd be in a much better place. They really ruined his life this chapter. Yeah. Yeah. It was already over for poor, poor Peter Pimple, but- No, it's so over.

It's never been more over. I will say something that we were talking about the injury, like, and he doesn't choose to get this injury, right? And it does really impact his ability to provide something for his family the way that he knows how. It does make me think, I mean, there's a lot in Merit Fray that mirrors other characters. Like this one, I think, gives us shades of Bran Stark, and the question of what are men worth if we can't use their bodies for violence. I always think about that essay from Noah about how men's bodies are used for violence, etc. And like also again that addiction of escapism for merit, it's drinking.

But for Bran we see that he gets more and more dependent on skin changing in order to feel anything and just how that works when skin changing in order to feel anything and just how that works when you're unhappy with your life and also unhappy, like Bran's unhappy with his body and how he feels like he can't be of worth, but at least he does have people who legitimately like him for the most part. I mean, who knows what will happen soon, but he was raised with people who loved him and was traveling with some people who do like him. STACEY Well, and you think of like, I think of Varamyr when you say that, right, and just like trying to feel something, anything, other than what he's feeling, which is that lust and that need to satiate.

And then I also think a little bit about Cersei's relationship with alcohol, right, and how she feels powerless. And when you talk about these characters that feel like they're powerless in some aspects and they drink or, you know, etc. whatever they're doing in the story, Cersei does kind of like drink to feel power, right? Or to feel like she has power compared to what she actually has. So, interesting. A lot of different displays in that. They should try cocaine. She does not try cocaine. She does not need to try that.

Jesus, do you think we need Cersei on coke? Are you fucking serious? That'd be so interesting. Christ almighty. Cersei, where her, she's getting which how she's using alcohol, what she's getting from it is, you know, the validation and it's cool. And I get to do this and you can't. So I can wield me drinking at this council session over you and you can do nothing about it.

So she, she's kind of can even understand that alcohol can be a tool where. Merit hasn't even got that where his dad even said, you know, you do it too much and you do it too loud, like figure out one or the other. If you're going to do it loud, be funny and cool, but don't do it all the time. Like, you know, so even yeah, yeah, don't be loud and dumb man. God dang it. So I could see where, but at least sir, she's figured out that part where it brands escapism is also where he's trying to be self-serving it as an escapism. So that's where he can defend himself by saying, you know, I'm Hoder can

fight better when I'm doing it. So even, even Cersei and brands escape is still a useful thing. Kind of to them, you could argue where merits like, no, man, you're just drawing attention to yourself negatively, which is never good. Well, he's numbing it. He's numbing it. Yeah. It's useful to him to be able to go about the day if he's numbing the literal physical

pain. Yeah. And not to like define Gregor Clegane. I mean, but I think about another person who drinks heavily and that's Gregor Clegane You know, he's too big like men shouldn't be as big as he is bro. That has some fucked up side effects is all I'm saying I thought you did think about him too during this chapter. Yeah. Yeah He also got hit in the head didn't he that's where all his pain started and everything. Yeah. A lot of times I think though, I don't know how else to explain who he is. Is what I'm saying.

You'll say head, head injury, alcohol, then passing out. That's a recipe for just long-term brain damage. Yeah. Let's get concussed baby. Woo. Yeah. For the love of Pete. So yeah, I'm not not gonna go into it,

but we have talked before, I dated a guy who was a football player and he had a lot of concussions and he had anger problems. It was very bad, it was not good. And it's a real thing, man. They just get their head hit over and over again. It's fucking nuts, dude.

It's really nuts. Well, also concussions, even just one can lead to depression, right? So like that also plays into how we're talking about alcoholism. So, yeah. Well, a lot of things in Merit's life has disappointed him. Like his wife, she's disappointed him as well because she produced mostly daughters. Technically, that's his fault. One who is Gatehouse Amy, the other is Walda Frey. Honestly, I'd be proud of them, even though I think we were like a little upset with Amy during the

the Jamie chapters. We were like, how could she be so mean to X person? That was on us because I think we set our expectations too high and we were just like, true, true, true. Like we were very into meme gatehouse Amy. And then we got into it. Oh, my God, Amy, you're terrible. Like she's just not a nice young lady. She is. She's Amy Bruckheimer's sister. She whatever her name is in V.

Yes. She's a little like that. Caroline. I don't know. I had Caroline or something like that. Caroline? I don't know. Caroline or something like that. Gatehouse Amy has all my full support. That's all I can say. Good for her. Live your life. Get out there. Have fun. More kids need to get in some stables.

Okay, that's all I'm going to say. They can have some fun. We don't need to be judgy. Get out there, children. Welcome to the Gatehouse, bitch. Well, I don't mind her sleeping around. That's fine. Yeah, that's fine. She needs to be safe.

And for sure, maybe just be a little nicer to Lancel, man. Just a little. Oh, yeah, that was the real thing. That was the only reason we were mad. Really, you know, yes, it's because we're Lancel pill. He's hurt. Yeah. Don't don't entice murderers. Yeah. Don't entice murderers with the prospect of your castle.

Maybe I'm pro enticing murderers for that. I don't know. Hold on. I got to go back to the drawing board. He also thought and hoped that he was going to be like Merit thought he was and hoped he was going to be in a better standing for Bolton Alliance after Walda Frey. But then Walder shames him and is like, listen, Bolton only chose Walda because she's fat and he's getting paid for her weight. And so that made him big sad. And later at the Red Wedding, he's given an important task and then he gets down on himself

because he's like, dang, I failed at that task too, right? Which is keep the Grey John drunk. And like, honestly, it's hard when someone's got that amount of body mass How do you get them drunk as like easily it's hard and he failed at that and the great John like was still strong enough To like snatch a sword and break someone's arm I just don't blame married for that and we're talking about Generational alcoholism the umbers probably definitely do have like good DNA generational like can get shit out like have you ever been around someone who's like that they just have a hollow leg you're like how like I'm good at this and

you're destroying me like so like you can be I feel like it would be very hard to drink with a number or any northern men. So that's a hard hard task Yeah, they did give him a hard task. That's kind of unfair Yeah, yeah He pauses his memory lane for a moment and he closes his eyes and he feels the headache Come on like the drum of the wedding were reminded of he's praying that bringing Peter back We'll put him in Ryman's good graces and make them see that he's loyal and worth having around. Just like quick, you know, quick shout out to the way that this chapter is structured. I love, you know, we get the little bit of the lame Lothar reminding about the wedding and then we get the thing about like, this was my job at the Red Wedding and then

You get the Kingswood Brotherhood, it's echoes with the Lightning Lord. And then now you have like the drum beat of the Red Wedding. He's thinking, oh, it was like drums at a wedding. I'm like, oh, where have we all fucking heard about drums at a wedding? And it's all just leading up to and setting the stage for the lady Stoneheart reveal with the, with the brotherhood there. That's all good job, George. Great job. For sure.

He knows what he's doing when it comes to this stuff. For sure. He knows what he's doing when it comes to this stuff. And honestly, this whole epilogue has been like an episodic thing for television. Like you could tell he was a TV writer for this. How this starts, how it arcs, how it finishes. This is its own little mini series in itself. So he's always good at that stuff. That's why they're going to bring it back on season 9 a game of Thrones. I'm finally gonna get baby Stoneheart. I Would love it You can just start it like how they started a house of dragon like just forget that last season Until they're like a hundred seventy two years before Daenerys

I They're like 172 years before Daenerys was born. I really do hope at the end that they'll do- 13 years after Daenerys is born. I really hope the end of House of the Dragon is like, it's the last episode with what happens to the main female queen character and it's just like 172 years before Daenerys Targaryen was murdered. Just kidding. But it would be like hysterical if they did that, like Arrested Development, like just like deadpan to it, but I don't think they will. It'd be like a what? 186, right? Or something like that.

Some shit, yeah. Yeah, you have to carry the two. 187. Have to carry the two to carry the two. Pat. Yeah. Say Merritt seems to want to recreate his youth of these thoughts. And really when you're looking at it from this point of view, as much as we've picked on them, when you're looking at it from this point of view as someone who is a prisoner

of war Kidnapped tortured and given a terrible head injury and all he's really thinking about is Man, I wish I could have been a night so I could be useful to someone I would grew up next to Jamie fricking Lannister and here I am Old stones ransom in someone and I just wish I was with my family like he seems like you'd almost want to Be with the crate calls not even the phrase But he wished he was worth he wished he was loved and worthy and this just kind of really tears at you of You know, it's really bad. I mean just

Really bad for anyone to deal with any one of these things and the combination of them all together And then seeing the guy that you went to high school with go on to be the Lord commander of the Kings Guard Like Jesus that that right there is a little bit of person into a deep deep deep dismal depression in my opinion like Imagine squaring next to Jamie Everything that you did would have been criticized against his it would always able to Jamie ever young Lannister could do his work today. Why can't you fray and just like every single thing? And it's like a microcosm of Walder's entire thing, right? Of the phrase always being second rate, never being good enough to be number one.

And that's why Walder is so cruel to him. And the Kingswood Brotherhood is what made Merritt Frey a joke and is what made Jamie Lannister a god. So like his Jamie's biggest triumph was Merritt's biggest embarrassment. And he couldn't even, what if him and Jamie were friends? How are you going to talk to him about that? You know, remember that one time you caught the winning touchdown pass and I was in the locker room puking. Like, oh man, you know, there's the way what what's he going to meet him on the same level with, you know, so there's really literally no one for him to turn to.

And I just think him him having thoughts to Jamie and their kind of positive thoughts, it just reminded me how Eddard would have thoughts of Rhaegar Targaryen and they were positive thoughts. It just kind of makes you like, dang it, I bet there was cool stories. You know, he almost reminds me a little bit of our next POV character, Kevin, which we're doing next week with Steph Lyonis from Kiffs by Fire, but almost in a way, being second rate in your family, not having to be the number one takes some of that pressure off, but also increases it in certain ways, right? Wanting to do the right thing for your family, but also be seen as valid and loved by them, and he doesn't have any of those, right?

Getting Tywin's love, for example, was difficult, and for Merritt, getting anyone's love in his family has been pretty difficult, too. Yeah. And I mean, because you're talking about, it's so funny, this is what we mean when we talk about like really seeing the interiority of the characters and how George kind of plays with the way that people are perceived by other characters and then what we see in their POVs, because that's how it is like in real life. You think, you know, like someone seems like they got it all going on. And like Jamie did probably, as you said, seem like the star quarterback, which is a football position that I know now.

And they make the decisions. Go birds! Go birds! Didn't your team just like win? The Lions had a victory recently. Both of them. Both the birds and the Lions won. Thank you. Both of my teams. Happy for you. Go birds! Go Lions! Rawr! Wow, look at this. Real sports soccer and girls going canon. Holy shit. We've grown. We're different. Anyway, but like Jamie's life is not perfect, right? Because at the same time now, no one likes him because they think of him as a Kingslayer. That man's only

ever slept with one woman in his life and that's his sister. And she doesn't like him either. She doesn't like him either. And also during this very book, right, he's coming out of, him either. And also during this very book, right, he's coming out of, I too was captured and I too suffered a debilitating injury. Listen. Oh yeah, that did happen to him. Shit. All these things did happen to him. And then also dad also disowned me because I didn't want to do any, I stood up to daddy just once in my life and he got big, big mad. And you know, like the phrase and merit, they're definitely a reprise of the Lannisters, but very much writ large. Cause like not just Jamie again, he's, he's very much like Tyrion as well. Right. He, he, they're all just trying to

earn love and it can't be that right. Like versus something that someone receives no matter what, which is what happens with the Starks. Yeah. When you're talking about a Kevin and a merits kind of similarities would be like the situational love that they're like, Kevin's love. Kevin's loved by Tywin because the situation and the circumstance, he knows that if we met today, that man wouldn't love me. It's not, it's not, it's not the circumstance. He knows that if we met today, that man wouldn't love me. It's not, it's not, it's not the same. So I think Mary gets that same, uh, same feeling to where if I was only useful to the right person, like if I'm useful to Peter and get

in the situation now where Kevin was close to Tywin, whenever he was emotionally hurt, if I can get in good with Peter, he'll like me, then he'll situationally love me, and then he'll be attached to me, and then I'll be worth something. Yeah. So, and the same way where Jamie and Cersei feel the same way of making themselves useful being in Tywin's orbit. So, that situational, transactional love type situation that situational, transactional love type situation also can do a number on you. I think it was in in succession. What was it like when the sun when he like

when the sun shined on you, it was so warm. They said about Logan, right? That like, oh, when he loved you, Logan Roy loved you and you felt it. You felt like the most important fucking sparkly person in the world and that is like Yeah, there you go. Just like Twilight. We brought it back But that's like the whole story right like it's finding love and what keeps you going and what makes you feel Glittery and sparkly inside to quote a very good TV show called crazy ex-girlfriend that Eliana made me watch and it was really good I don't think you're supposed to feel like that. I thought that was the whole point of that

sequence. Well, maybe. But anyways, I'm using it ironically here. But no, but really though, the whole point of the story is how do you find love, safety, happiness, and how do you hold that? What does that look like? And what does it look like when you don't have that? The nature versus nurture argument, right? Like, if certain characters were raised in more loving households, did they ever have a chance? Or could they have been someone happy, someone whole, somebody not broken from war? We don't know, because he does not tell us, because every one of these characters is depressed. And I love that for me, not for them. And listen, Mary, you could have been born a daughter, a fray daughter.

Thank God. Yeah. Be sold off. Like a mayor. It, I think, uh, something that I've, I, uh, Mary hit a meritocracy. That's what the phrase are. But I think also it's important to remember with a lot of this stuff is the little trick that got you past the thing that was hard when you're a kid. It worked.

That's the one thing that we always like. Why does that guy drink so much or why is that guy so mean? Cause it worked. Whatever happened to them. That was the crutch that got them through. So is it debilitating now? Yes, it is. And that needs to be looked at and changed and everything else. But that's one thing that we always lose sight of when you start looking at the outside of these

characters or people or anybody of, yes, they have a problem. Yes, that's a weird issue, but it worked. That's what got them through. So, yep. Coping mechanism. It's why they're still here on these pages today, except for this one, because he's about to go. Yep. Not related to that, really. But. So. We arrive at the curtain wall of old stones and Merritt takes a huge swig of thick wine left in his wine-holder-y thingy.

Skin, in his skin. I'm like, what's the fucking word for this thing? In his skin! And he follows over to the gatehouse, or at least where it would have once been, because it has been overgrown. And he dismounts in the ruins to walk his horse very carefully through, don't want to break a horse ankle. That would be really fucked up because the Brotherhood need a horse, you know what I mean? This is where Robin Catalan fought about- well, I mean, they gotta get a horse out of it, right? I'm like, out of this encounter. This is where Robin Catalan fought about Jon being the heir, Old Stones, and I think it is a really interesting meeting

spot. Obviously it's abandoned, but this is where Cat had that huge spat with Rob. Of course it's in UnCat's mind, right? Like Lady Stoneheart, of course she's thinking about it. And I have to throw back, before we get any farther here, just to throw back one more time, this is also the spot where we hear about the Dragon Knight and his sister for the first time, just to throw some more credit at the Blackfire line. That'll be my last one. I'm sorry. OK. OK. Yeah. Jamie, Jamie and Cersei and the Dragon Knight and his sister were brought up.

And that's first paragraph together right here at this location. So that's right. That's right. That's true. Oh, nice. Nice. Yeah. That's true. Oh, nice. Nice. Yeah. I just liked this line, you know, speaking of like great lines from George in this chapter of the curtain wall of old stones had once encircled the brow of the hill, like the crown on a king's head.

And that's exactly what you're saying about like, you know, not only making John the heir, but like literally Rob was the king and it's the text reminding us of Lady Stoneheart. Yeah. Basically that. Because it does feel here like this is her making right the things that she couldn't when she was alive, right? Like that she's wrapped up in this spot. I'm serious when I said this is her new haunt.

Like she's wrapped up in this place and wrapped up in the stories and what could have been. And there's this moment when Merit turns and he sees, I think, Tom sitting on the king's tomb. And in his head, he's like, well, that's fucking disrespectful. That's a king's tomb. And it's like, bitch, you know what was disrespectful? When you put the crown on Rob's wolf and paraded him around. Like, oh, remember? Not even just the killing. Well, the killing, yeah, that too. But then parading him around, speaking of the crown, right, that you just brought out of the

text, like there's the crown right there. So you're kind of being reminded of that, but like respect, sorry, Pat, fuck the phrase. I'm sorry, I got really far, but wow, fuck the fucking face. We went on a journey this podcast. They fucking killed Rob, bro. Do you remember during the Cat in the Chapters when we were like, I guess I understand why they did that. Yeah. I'm back. I'm back in it though. I'm against it again. I'm a flip-flopper, you know, like I should be running this fall. Man, stop the presses.

Chloe puts her bid in for presidential hat because I'm like, oh, we love the phrase and I'm like, fuck the phrase. But throughout this chapter, we get all these little recaps of the internal workings of the Red Wedding, right? Like how it was actually almost really a big mess because it turns out none of these brothers work together. Merit only knew so much because they don't fucking trust him to pull anything off, so they only gave him a little info. You start to piece together how siloed they all are and how the dysfunction flows through the family and how could they have stumbled into doing this?

How did you bitches connive and scheme and just come together enough to kill Rob? I will say, Rob is looking down on this chapter like Mufasa looks down on Simba from the stars. Like he's all over it man. He's all over this chapter. Absolutely. He's like know who you are Merritt. But a wolf instead of a lion. Know who you are Merritt. Well I mean they're going to the godswood so whenever Merritt has that line about sitting on a god or whatever so since Peter and Merritt are both going to, uh, sitting on a God or whatever. So since Peter Merritt are both going to be hung in the God's woods, the old

gods are going to hear some new songs for real. So then brand gets to Washington. It goes, there's mama killing people. Yeah. Can you imagine lady, lady stoneheart or cat? This is the place where you planned your son's kingdom with him, his succession. You got together his will, like the details were done. You're ironing out the fine points.

This is it. We're going to have a new kingdom and we're going to rule it and it's all good. Like, and now you're coming back here hanging folks. Yeah. And of course we get that Jenny of Old Stones and Duncan the Small, right, as we walk toward the castle ward in the fallen leaves to a man in patched faded greens playing a wood harp and singing Jenny's song. Of course, another heir to a throne abdicating over someone he loves from Old Stones. STACEY Ehh. Word, word. Yeah. I just, I don't know.

These lines are bangers, like fallen leaves lay thick upon the ground like soldiers after some great slaughter. Is it the fallen leaves laying it thick or is it you, George? Are you laying it thick showing us the red wedding again? That's all. Oh, yeah. Oh, nice. But in a good way.

Kind of. It's called, I think they call that imagery, right? Is that what's going on? Yeah. Good job, George. Good job, Pat. We all did it. Merit scolds him for sitting on a king, but the man responds, Old Tristopher doesn't mind

hearing a new song. He hops down and asks if Merit remembers him, for he had sang at his daughter's wedding, and his daughter's husband, Pate, is a cousin of his. Bad news, Pate is getting cucked. And dead. Do you remember me? I was the DJ at the wedding. So Old Stones is the place of house mud. House mud did

used to rule the river lands. So this actually is a site of old gods and kings. So yeah, yeah, whatever monarch. Nerds. I do feel I feel like I talk about the lyrics of Jenny of Old Stones and I apply it to every single person in this story. I'm like, they're with their ghosts. But like for real though, it actually is happening here at Catlin, stuck in limbo with her ghost, that's why she's seeking vengeance. But she's also a ghost herself in the Hall of the Kings that are gone, because her king is gone.

That's it. Yeah, he is, but she is still remaining. Tom of Semmon's Dreams asks why Walder never invites him to play up at the Twins, but a harsher voice interrupts, asking if Merit brought the gold. When he turns, suddenly, he's surrounded by outlaws in rough-spun rags, boiled leather, and dead men's armor, and bundled up in a cloak three times too big for her as a woman, as well, who seems to be the secret undead mafioso ringleader. Merit asks, Who's Beric? And the men joke about whose turn it is to be Beric and Thoros this time.

I love roleplay. For he's not here. Merit's head is pounding, and suddenly, he's pretty fucking afraid, I imagine, since all his traumas are surrounding him. He realizes they're gonna take his gold and keep Peter too. Yeah, I like that when he hands them the gold though, we get an establishment, they like bite into the coin, so they're showing that it's normal for people to bite into coins to check if it's gold, and it's just a nice way of setting up the Aria chapter soon after and then the Pate prologue, which is actually garden to end later. George originally had not conceived of that.

I think he was going to go straight into the very mere one before he split them into two books. So anyway, fun stuff. What you were saying earlier, Eliana, about lady stone heart and, uh, Jenny of old stones, a song and everything that it is kind of the same with the ghost of I heart getting her song. Yeah. While you have lady stone heart at old stones teaching the old God's new song. So I just thought maybe there was something there, but maybe not.

I don't know. Yeah. I guess what, what are fire whites in some aspects, right? Hmm. Yeah. They're all like, add this to your playlist. Yeah. Say, I guess that's great. What you said though though about biting the coin, how it sets up for Aria. So I am paid.

That's pretty awesome. I kind of thought I was thinking about the money here, right? Specifically. And like I was trying to conceptualize a hundred golden dragons because we don't have like an exchange rate, right? For this. We just don't. That's not something that we've been given. I would love that someday, not to be a nerd, but come

on, George. I think Advil tried to analyze it once, right? And was like, I don't know. Yeah, exactly. And there's something different, right? There's the worth of merit, Frey, and the worth of Peter Pimple, which is not the same money to every person. So when you think about like risk versus reward and like for him, he's sitting here thinking, I could just steal off and spend a few coins and get drunk, right? Maybe they'd be fine with it, would they? I don't know. But I was thinking about a couple of different instances in the story, like Cersei, who was

willing to just shove out a hundred gold dragons for whoever brought Nymeria's pelt back to her. And that was like, I'm willing to give a hundred gold dragons! So that feels hefty. And then you have the hands tourney, where the rewards were outrageous, right? 40,000 golden dragons to the champion, 20,000 to the second, another 20 to the winner of the melee, 10,000 to the victor of the archery competition. And then the hands turning again, we have 100 gold dragon bet from Littlefinger on Jamie

winning. Joffrey, during the riot, the guy who hits him with shit, he's like, I want the man who threw that, 100 golden dragons to whoever gives him up. Simeon Silvertongue asks Tyrion for something, and Tyrion's like, alright, well, this will not be a matter of 30 gold dragons, Tyrion feared. So to Tyrion, 30 gold dragons is like, that's about what I'll pay for stuff. 30? Up to 30. Like a banana. Yeah, like a banana. How much could it cost, Eliana? 10 gold dragons

Edmir offers a thousand gold dragons to recapture Jamie Lannister if you want to know how much it costs to buy your pride back No pun intended because pride lion Lions yeah, go lions. Bingo. Thanks. Thanks When Sandra and Arya find Pollyver and kill him, they open his jacket and he has three gold dragons and a couple of other coins sewn into his pocket. So he's a man at arms under the mountain, so that puts him down the pay rung from a Lannister, for example, or from the Hand's tourney, or what Tyrion would think is a lot of money.

So that might put us a little more into maybe somebody more common, so someone between Tyrion would think is a lot of money. So that might put us a little more into maybe somebody more common. So someone between Tyrion and between the normalcy of three dragons just carrying it on you as emergency money. Good to know. And then you have the most expensive in the whole story of Brown Ben Plum flipping. To pay Brown Ben Plum to flip, he says that he wants 100,000 golden dragons, 50 hides of fertile land, a castle, and a lordship. So to put it into context, a hundred gold dragons feels like it would be

pretty hefty, right, like, or a good amount to people who are not of the biggest noblest houses. Like, it would be a pretty penny to take. But it's not too much that they'll say no and fuck it. Exactly. And that's exactly what I was thinking when I was thinking about that, is like, how much are they actually willing? Like, how much would the Brotherhood take? Obviously, they'll take whatever, but also it's not enough for them to be like, oh, we're not fucked if we take it. I thought that was very interesting.

It was a fun exercise I did today. Yeah, that is a fun exercise, yeah. Thank you, A Search of Ice and Fire. Jamie costs. It seems like the money from the Lannisters is like kind of crazy compared to the money from everyone else though. Yeah, like yeah 100 gold dragons for someone's life as compared to a hundred gold dragons try to find a dire wolf. That seems crazy Just like dishing the cash out that's actually really what I took from this exercise by the way is like holy shit

They just fucking spend money. No wonder the crown's in debt. STACEY Well, they didn't end up spending that money. I think they bank on never having to actually, they're like, this is like a long shot and like sure, we'll pay it out if you do it, but no one ever brings Nymeria's hide and they don't recapture Jaime and- STACEY I'm sure nobody gives up who threw the shit at Joffrey either. STACEY Yeah.

They're like, it was all of us. I'm Spartacus I am Spartacus. I'm Thoros. I'm Derek. I'm Thoros. I'm As I will say about merit it seems like he was like letting himself off the hook here where he's thinking Oh, someone will pay for my life, too And he's kind of he's kind of knowing that's not true. And the brotherhood kind of lets him off the hook saying, ah, your dad wouldn't fall for that again. So like, so you don't have to say it. Yeah. Even the people are getting ready to hang you are still like, God dang, dude. You're like, we're just taking whoever will come.

They're just like, we're luring them all one by one. Yeah. I mean, you were saying about like, the joke of I'm Baric, I'm Thor, and that's literally what they're doing here, right? They're all taking turns being Baric. And it's again, all that slipperiness of identity. And I mean, it parallels like how the identity of the Hound has also become this like really slippery thing, because a lot of people are pretending to be him as well. Everyone's pretending to be everyone. And this is like the turning point in the story, right? When more and more characters start to lose themselves. Something that we discussed a long, long, long time ago.

Identity and song of lights and fire? Yeah. In, uh, in, on Patreon. It also feels like kind of Dread Pirate Roberts-ish from the Princess Bride, but less funny. And I don't know, like, we're talking about Lady Stoneheart being kept alive very unnaturally, right? But they're doing that with Beric too, in a way.

Like, they're pretending that they're like, yeah, of course, he's still alive. And they're doing it with this lie and this story and just keeping it going. I guess he's alive in Catlin, in a way. I don't know. They're doing it with this lie and this story and just keeping it going. I guess he's alive in Catlin, in a way. I don't know. Eh. Oh. Wasn't meant to be sexual, I'm sorry. Got it. It could've been. Wow, but he is when you think about it. It was a kiss.

Do you think his soul is just living up inside her? Wow. Maybe. I don't know how it works. I don't know how I need it. Like a tiny, the tiniest bit of it, you know? Can she use the carpool lane? Does she do two for Tuesday? Yeah.

Questions. Really good question. What about Bogo deals? I just have questions. That's right. Merit asks for his nephew and they tell him he's in the God's wood. Come and see. Wait, no, wrong end of the book.

They'll take him to him. He tries to ask them to drink with him, but they decline, and leaves crunch beneath their feet as they traverse to the Godswood. I love that, that they try to get him to drink with them, or vice versa, that he's like, please, can I drink with you? But no, bitch, you're gonna die. It didn't work for them The leaves crunch as they go to the godswood where Peter pimple is hanging from the limb of an oak dead

They killed him. He asks what gives them the right? Yeah, I will say like right before like we get into the what gives them the right I do like the irony that upon seeing Peter's body, Merit thinks, mother have mercy. I'm like, oh, mother, you're going to give something. It is mercy. It's funny where he says, what gives them the right? Where they just declined guest, right? I guess you can look at it that way. Where they said, no, we're not going to drink with you,

which that should let you know that you, you, you have no quarter. You are not getting any sort of help here. Your station's not going to help you. So that should put him on guard right there to let him know that, oh shit. If we can't have drinks together, that means I'm the enemy and Merritt's still still not picking it up. The poor boy.

Well, he's too far in now. Well, and if that doesn't tell you that you're being denied guess, right? Maybe the little boy, like, I don't know. The boy's body is going to let you know. For sure. But it makes, it also makes the brotherhood more justified than what the phrase did already to where, Hey, we're being above the board about this, you know? And they kind of, they kind of go through the ruse as we're going to get ready to

up here about, you know what he might got me there. You know, so at least the brotherhood is entertaining the idea of rules and honor and structure. So, and so for him to say what gives them the right, it's like merit. Not only did you kill your liege, Lord and King that, um, they're actually playing by the rules right now. They're not going to pretend to be your friend and then kill you. Yeah. They're just going to murder you.

Alright, so what gives them the right? We had a rope. That's right enough. Two of the outlaws seized Merit's arms and bound them tight behind his back. He was too deep in shock to struggle. No was all he could manage. I only came to ransom Peter. You said if you had the gold by sunset, he wouldn't be harmed.

Well, said the singer, you've got us there, my lord. That was a lie of sorts, as it happens. The one-eyed outlaw came forward with a long coil of hempen rope. He looped one end around Merritt's neck, pulled it tight, and tied a hard knot under his ear. The other end he threw over the limb of the oak. The big man in the yellow cloak caught it. What are you doing?

Merritt knew how stupid that sounded. But he could not believe what was happening. Even then, you'd never dare hang a Frey. VB Oh man. Oh Merit. You fucking numbskull. I'm sorry, but what? Of course.

And they all laugh, and he's like begging them, and he's like, Walder will pay my ransom! Oh buddy, he wouldn't. And also, they don't care. What just happened at the Red Wedding to them, unfortunately, he wouldn't. And also they don't care. You're what just happened at the red wedding to them, unfortunately invalidated anyone with the last name fray, you know, it's, it's over. So over. They promised. Oh, go ahead. Pat.

I just find it decent of them for them not making to have to call out what his value is like dang it. At least that's something. So for them that's something. For them it's war. Yeah, for them this is just war. This is just everyday hostage. I mean, it's just like when they took Arya, it's everyday hostage taking for money or

for you know, et cetera. But for this, it's a little deeper, I guess, than just war. Yeah, no, it's take no prisoners. They promise to let him go if he answers their question. Where is Sandor Clegane with his makeshift squire, a skinny child of ten? But he doesn't know, so up he goes and Tom begins playing, the day they hanged Black Robin. While Merritt continues to beg and plea that the phrase had a right to their vengeance,

it wasn't murder, it was war, claiming Lady Stark cut Jingle Bell's throat, and that half a hundred men died in the camps. That the Direwolf was killing people too. That Merritt, he didn't do it, he just drank, they can't kill him for drinking. It was his father, Ryman, Bolton, Lothar, he only drank wine. Funny enough, his death here and his pleading is very similar to Liza's death, right? Oh, interesting. Right before when she's saying to Peter, you know, like, they made me do it, da da da da da da, like just the way that she's whining and pleading and then he pushes her in.

It sounds a lot like this. She was just down bad. Yeah, she was, girl was real down bad. I don't know. We already talked about his dick a little bit and I don't want to talk about it again, but I'm like, girlfriend, Liza, what is going on there? Because there's far other cock than little fingers, little finger. The whole world is your oyster or the whole world for your oyster, whatever we want to

say here, girl. In the present, The Day They Hanged, Black Robin, I think we'll hear this again. I do. I really do. Spicy, I know. But it's an old song because it comes from before Dunkin' Egg. We hear in The Sworn Sword, it could be they were in some outlaw band. At Dask, they'd heard a harper sing the day they hanged Black Robin. Ever since, Egg had been seeing gallant outlaws behind every bush. So, old song. I wonder if we're gonna get the roots of that ever.

There are probably some people that have broken down the different Robins. It could be in history. I didn't. I'm not going there today for you all. It's not happening, but- BF He's a Blackwood. They're always Blackwoods in the Riverlands. STACEY God damn it, you're right. They're always Blackwoods. BF Ohhhh. STACEY And this is a perfect song to play at his end. At his demise, right? When we look at the Kingswood outlaws as well. I think this fits perfectly.

STACEY Absolutely. Yeah, I guess- but do I want a song that goes perfectly with me dying as I die? I don't know. Oh, my God. This chapter is all about playlists. They're making their own Spotify blind. It is. It's just like us. For real. Hit play the Dawson's Creek theme song. Let's go. Well, he doesn't have to wait for their lives to be over.

It's going to happen now. Kind of mentioned this too, about just how episodic this felt, this whole thing of and merits life is kind of the encapsulation of the story. He never learned anything from his life. He never grew whether he was captured or married to Targaryen loyalists. He learned nothing. His life was turned upside down twice by a brotherhood. So it just seemed like all he's complaining about is his luck and what he was due. And if he ever just did something, it was proactive ever. It's a perfect encapsulation of the high ruling class of Westeros.

Yeah. You're talking about how it sounds like lies of being like they made me do it. I'm thinking of Jorah, you know, like as we're comparing people, because Jorah acts like nothing's ever his fault. All this stuff just happened to him. Life just happened to him. And I mean, like, to be fair, as we've been discussing regarding Merit, like some of the stuff like really was unlucky, but there is some ironic stuff with his name, like you were talking about Meritocracy Pat, and I think merit, like M-E-R-I-T, not the

makeup brand, is one of the things that is being played with here in regards to what has merit ever done that was of merit, right? Or even maybe are we playing off of a ferret weaseling, right? He's searching, he's searching for Peter Pimple because he is. And like, has he done anything, like actually done anything good or bad, right? And he complains like his wife came from a good family but fallen in stature and he's like, yeah, but she hates me for being branded. And like, we don't really know that. Like maybe he, she just hated you because you didn't try in your marriage. Where were you? Did he ever try as a husband or as a father? He hates his kids.

And he's trying now, I guess, kind of, maybe as a son, but again, didn't do a good job during the Red Wedding because no one trusted him to do any other responsibilities. And like even now, despite being complicit at the Red Wedding, he says he didn't do anything. Like nothing is ever his fault nor to his credit. And so nothing is ever earned and he expects better luck, but he has no merit

to go off of for the, all of that. You got to have some sort of skin in the game, but, and like you said, he, like he has said to himself, the only thing he's made himself known for is being drunk and loud, so yeah, it's sad. It's really sad. He has all the information right here at his fingertips and he will not connect the dots. So it's, that's what's rough for us as the reader to see and be like, God dang dude, just, and maybe everybody just needs a friend sometimes to be honest with them and tell them, Hey, this is the path you're on. You get your stuff together and he doesn't even have that

He doesn't even have a brother or a sister or a daughter to tell him. So yeah, just yeah rough The saddest part is like he wasted his life and he didn't realize it until it was pretty much gone in front of his eyes Yeah, yeah now I'm gonna cry whether his fault whether someone else is like he doesn't realize it till this moment. Oh Yeah, I was mentioned earlier just like Quentin poor Quentin. Oh, oh Well Quentin was just a boy. He was a kid The singer turned to the hooded woman m'lady The outlaws parted as she came forward, saying no word.

When she lowered her hood, something tightened inside Merit's chest, and for a moment, he could not breathe. No, no, I saw her die. She was dead for a day and night before they stripped her naked and threw her body in the river. Raymond opened her throat from ear to ear. She was dead. Her cloaked collar hid the gash his brother's blade had made, but her face was even worse than he remembered. The flesh had gone pudding soft in the water and turned the color of curdled milk. Half her hair was gone and the rest had turned as white and brittle as a crone's. Beneath her ravaged scalp, her face was shredded skin and black blood where she had raped herself with her nails. But her eyes were the most terrible thing.

Her eyes saw him and they hated. needed. She don't speak said the big man in the yellow cloak. You bloody bastards cut her throat too deep for that but she remembers. He turned to the dead woman and said what do you say my lady was he part of it? Lady Catalan's eyes never left him. She nodded. Merrit Frey opened his mouth to plead, but the noose choked on his words. His feet left the ground, the rope cutting deep into the soft flesh beneath his chin. Up into the air he jerked, kicking and twisting, up and up and up and up Wow Pat that was an inspired lawn mouth I mean lemon cloak it was inspired like

it was like exactly what I in my head, what I picture. So like, amazing. It was the perfect lemon cloak. Like, I was looking for like, how would I seduce a Targaryen right now? That was great. I had a chill that voice. How would I seduce Rhaegar Targaryen with this voice? Smart, smart. Uh, skulls and kisses indeed. Woof. Yeees. I feel like that up and up and up is a, that's an underrated, underrated moment in line.

Yo, that whole entire, wow. Did you get a little, just a little Peter Pimple prickle on your arms right now, everyone? Like, are you feeling like alone? Yeah, actually I did. Yeah. I love that when we read a passage and feel that way. The up and up and up kind of reminded me of like the see in the veil. Like it's unconquerable.

It's inevitable, inevitable type thing. Like it's finally it's hitting you the reality of what the situation is. I don't know. But yeah, I did like that as well. Kicking and twisting. Man, poor fucking Merritt. Rip. For real. I am sad for him.

He was dealt a shitty hand and then he kept playing that same exact shitty hand until he died. He just didn't play it, you know? He just didn't even try to play the hand. I think it's like another thing of irony is he's mad that a woman of all things, he feels humiliated that a woman is the one that beat him and branded him from the Kingswood Brotherhood. Well, let me tell you Merit, right now there's a woman kind of running the entire Brotherhood without banners. They're all taking their orders from her and she's the one

who's going to decide your fate, So how's that? And also I Don't know. He's all like I have the worst luck and I'm like Merit Frey Let me introduce you to someone who has even worse luck Katlyn Stark. Yeah, her luck was so bad She had to get a whole new name And also Katlyn being groomed And also, Catlin being groomed to run the Riverlands and then her being replaced by a much younger heir that comes along later, you know, so she has a very good idea of the craziness of family. So I mean, Riverlands, Raniro.

Yeah. Yeah. I was thinking that you're going to say like, she has a good knowledge also even of like the lay of the land here, right? Of how the river, riverlands are structured, even if she can't like give that much counsel. But all of Merritt's defense of saying, you know, who my family is, my brother, I only did this, I only did that.

It's like, you're talking to someone who was supposed to be your overlord at one point. Like none of your stories are going to help, but none of your lies are going to work. She knows more than you. She's been around longer. She's been inside more political conversations. So it's just, you know, Oh, and I bet she fucking remembers what your family just did to her by the by. Yeah. And also the whole red wedding thing. Yeah. We have a witness.

Well, and I love how they unpack literally every single thing, right? As he looks at her every moment. And so when you start the chapter and he's like, I wasn't even really involved in the red wedding, but here he's remembering every gash that was given to her in like vibrant fucking language because he remembers suddenly. Yeah. Yeah. Good point. God. You know, look, I could be a fray apologist, but at the core, at my heart of hearts, I am a heart of hearts. I am a Catalan, Tully Stark, defender of her rights and wrongs. Murder spree in the Riverlands, good for her.

STACEY It's just fun. Have fun. STACEY It's good fun. STACEY Because of all the fun we're having. STACEY Good fun. STACEY Sorry, Pat. You probably didn't come here to hear us say it's fun to kill phrase. Well, I think it's you know, it's live by the sword, die by the sword. You form you, you form political and military alliances for your benefit. What do you think the downfall is that going to be like? A lot of countries have the philosophy policy of we'll never get into assassination

because we don't want someone else to adopt that policy. It's the same dang idea. We're like, I mean, I, I saw that. I love the phrase forever. I think they get crapped on too much to actually provide a service. And they're actually kind of smart and savvy. They're pretty smart and savvy a lot more than, you know, I, Walter did matter at Mary and his kids often at our start.

Did there's it's just a matter of fact. So like there's some things that needs to be defended. But this is the consequences of your actions. And they've never really seemed to have to face consequences. They've always played both sides, whether it's the Black Fire Rebellion or the Dancer Dragons. And so in a way, it's nice to be like, you know what? Good. Yeah. Yeah. And I have bad news.

Crusader King. Oh, my God. And I have bad news. Crusader King. Oh, my God. Walter Frey would love Crusader Kings. He'd be just like me for real. Marrying them all off. Oh, my God. Even if it's not advantageous, I'm like, yeah, get married. You deserve love or children, more children. Next thing you know, next thing you know, you're telling your grandkids, we should just move the capital to the twins. Why do we even? Yeah. Groundlands. Yeah. Next thing you know, you're telling your grandkids, we should just move the capital to the twins. Why do we even have to go to Crownlands?

Yeah. Next thing you know, you got me scheming off to murder the children of my family I don't like. Uh-oh. What? We have like 40 of them, you know? Like, who cares? Pat, thank you so much for coming on.

Can you tell everyone again where to find some of your essays online there? Most of the essays that I've referenced, whether it's the Frey Line of Succession or a serious player in the game or a seat on every council would be at the Clanking Dragon Inn on Reddit. So anything else would be at Sanrixian. My wife has a podcast as well. So yeah, I don't have the camera on. So yeah, at Sanrixian also.

Find her, you'll find me. So. Aw. Aw. Well, much better than non-wife guy, Merit Frey. I'll tell you that. We only get the wife guys on here. My god.

Yeah, yeah. Uh. For sure. Eliana, where can they find us on the old internet? Well, I don't remember anymore, but our patrons will tell you where to find us. But here's something that they won't tell you that I'll tell you. You can also find us on patreon.com slash Girl's Gone Canon. That's C-A-N-O-N.

And yeah, we got different tiers for different fun stuff. Go check it out. You can catch Girl's Gone Canon on any of the following streamers. On Podbean, iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher, Acast, Spotify, Overcast, Apple Podcast, iHeart Radio, Audible, and Amazon Podcasts. You can also join us on Patreon, where if you join the thunder tier above, you have access to a discord and monthly happy hours and things like that. And by joining the discord, you get access to a bunch of great channels, including but not limited to memes and shitposting channel, fashion hour.

There are multiple channels for historic materials, A Song of Ice and Fire, there's a Pet Channel, which I think is probably the most important channel of all. Respectful Thirsting, because there's a channel for that. Come by, join the community, it's a lot of fun, and you won't regret it. Like our patrons just said, catch us at patreon.com slash girls gone canon. We will be back next week with another chapter from A Song of Ice and Fire. Oh my god, the crowd goes fucking wild. A Song of Ice and Fire. The next epilogue, Kevin and our friend Steph Lyoness is going to be joining us.

They are from the Kissed by Fire podcast and they're also a great author. Check out their works. We'll link them below and get ready for next week with them. It'll be a great episode before we go on to our new POV. Wow. Who could it be? Wow. Wow.

And if you want to keep up with us, I actually completely forgot. I guess you were saying like where to find us on social media. That's how out of practice I am. You can find us on twitter.com slash girls gone canon. Or if you have things you want to tell us, you can send us an email at girls gone canon at gmail.com. Thanks so much for listening, Willy Back. I've been one of your hosts, Chloe.

And I've been another one of your hosts, Eliana. Thank you so much for listening. We'll be back. I've been one of your hosts, Chloe. And I've been another one of your hosts, Eliana. Thank you so much. And I've been your guest, Pat. Yay. Yay. Thank you. I learned so much today. All right.

About the phrase. Stop the recording.