Girls Gone Canon Cast - ASOIAF Episode 229 — ADWD Epilogue, Kevan Lannister featuring Stef Lyoness

Episode Date: September 27, 2024

The last published chapter of A Song of Ice and Fire, brought to you by a spider, little birds... AND STEF LYONESS of the Kissed by Fire Podcast! Join us for the heralding of winter: A lion roars his last as the spider's web comes into focus. Where to find Stef Lyoness Twitter — https://x.com/KissedPodcast Stef's Twitter — https://x.com/Stef_Lyoness  Patreon — https://www.patreon.com/user?u=80234533  Threadless — https://kissedbyfire.threadless.com/    Background music "Tenebrous Brothers Carnival - Mermaid" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/ --------------- Eliana's twitter: https://twitter.com/arhythmetric Eliana's reddit account: https://www.reddit.com/user/glass_table_girl Eliana's blog: https://themanyfacedblog.wordpress.com/ Chloe's twitter: https://twitter.com/liesandarbor Chloe's blog: liesandarborgold.com Intro by Anton Langhage

Hello and welcome to Girls Gone Canon Reads a Song of Ice and Fire, episode 229, A Dance with Dragons, Cavan Lannister featuring Steph Lyonesse. I am one of your hosts, Chloe. And I am another one of your hosts, Eliana. And yes, we are joined today by Steph Lyonesse, which is kind of a perfect name maybe for this, uh, for this episode, but maybe not. This is not a good, I think, episode for Lyonesse. I don't know.

What do you think Steph? well it was inspired by Lannisters it was no Lannister inspired name anyway but yeah probably not the best thing to be called in this particular chapter we'll keep you alive yeah please do hopefully hopefully so my god we need to bring a disclaimer for our guests if you come on the podcast there's a non-zero-about-a-chance that you might die. Of fun! Yay!

Of fun. Well, thank you so much for joining us today to do Kevon's chapter. Yes, of course. And if you haven't listened, Steph is half of the Kissed by Fire podcast duo. We did collect your other half earlier on in the year for an Aria. Yeah, we're catching them all, getting all our favorites on. And you have been covering Fire and Blood, long form, beautifully, slowly, navel-gazing-ly, like just having a blast going through it in a deep deep manner and That's so fun because I'm like a fire and blood lover I think that that book is a blast because of some of the simplicity and because of the way it's written. So

What's what's going on with fire and blood coverage and what's next for you? I think it's really funny that you just said it's really simple because it is I Feel like it's anything but simple it's really funny that you just said it's really simple because it is... I feel like it's anything but simple. It's like the most... there's never an answer to anything. Beth and I spend most of our time arguing about what we think really happened because the annoying thing is George doesn't even know. He's like, I don't know. I just said three things happened. And three versions of this took place. I love it. So we just spend a lot of time arguing about that but what's going on for us? So we've we've just finished well not just finished but we finished recently

Hot D coverage and we had a wee break because it was a very intense I don't know if it was like that for you but just sort of intensely producing lots of content each week and then we're coming back soon, we just actually chatted this week to talk about next steps. We've got some Patreon content coming out really soon and some new exciting things for Patreons as well. And then we're somewhere in Jaehaerys' reign at the moment. We just finished a recording with Sanrixian, which was the section of the story where it was great, it was where Ereia returns, she's been away with Beleriand, no one knows where. And so there was it was a very dragon heavy lots of dragon lore, like wondering about

like why Beleriand picked Ereia or the other way around and where she actually went and it's such a horrific story. It's gross and we... we... yeah very wormy. Boils and her eyeballs burst and things like that so we just... but it's great and Sanricsian's amazing so that came out a few weeks ago and we're gonna keep moving on in the Jaehaerys and Alessanne story. I'm excited and nervous because Beth is not a fan of Alessanne and I don't know, like she's a hater. She's an Alessanne. Interesting. Like, she does not stan Alessanne. And I completely and utterly disagree with her on the whole thing. We've actually done

a Patreon episode where she spelt it out and I was like, what are you talking about? Oh god. Sometimes I don't sleep at night thinking about it. I'm like, Beth, like this is just like wrong. This is like a big thing for when you're in a podcast relationship. Like when you come to that part where you know your partner has like a feeling like that. That's a lot. You have to work through all that. I'm gonna have to work through it. It's gonna be like therapy. I don't know if you and I have anything like that that we disagree so core, like that is so core like that to disagree on. Thankfully, you and I only have good opinion on just kidding. I mean, you and I disagree on some things like how we feel about Sandor, but not like

in that same way, right? Or... Well, and I've learned to deal with your issues. Yeah. I'm just kidding, you've learned to deal with mine. It's both, you know, but like that... I'm just gonna think, is there anything like that? There better not be. Well, we have some of the biggest POVs left to find out if this is worth that, to be fair. We have two years to find out at the mid-end of our... our, um, what do you call this our dating

our very long betrothal. Yeah. Finally stay tuned. We have a wedding and a wedding. That's the theme of this episode. I'm like so looking forward to then the coming chapters for you and Beth. I'm nervous. In your relationship. You're not. I'm kind of nervous because I'll pray for you. I know what she's going to say, but I just completely like don't agree. And I'm just not sure I'm ready to hear so much Alessanne hate.

Like she really doesn't like her at all. And I just, yeah. I mean, I'm not curious. This is gonna make some good episodes though, like it's gonna be a very good episode. What like could be behind that? So I think that's a that's a good reason for people to tune in. Like why, what are the reasons to dislike Alessanne? Well, she has many. To make kids by fire. Yeah, to hear those reasons. Very good, very interesting. Yeah. I mean, we all hate Jaehaerys, but, you know. Yeah, fuck Jaehaerys.

Don't do that. That's so helpful. Yeah, well, maybe if he kept it in his pants a little bit. Yes! Jesus. Making his wife have so many babies. Yeah, you know, I think I've said this before here, but my grandmother had a lot of babies and she said after the sixth, they just walk out.

So we're at Lysand. That said, family vibes. Yeah, very Catholic. They were and so is to Harrison Allison. Where can everyone find these esteemed episodes? What are the best places to find a kiss? Anywhere you listen to your podcasts really. I put it everywhere. I'm a podcast-y slut. So just anyplace.

And you guys do have a Patreon, right? We do have a Patreon, yeah. It's a little growing community. We have quite a few levels you can get for as cheap as five American dollars every month. American dollars? I know. I think it's like four British pounds. You can have that. And we have perks, shout outs, hangouts, all kinds of different things. We send you swag, you get extra access to us, you get to ask us questions that other

people don't get to ask us, you get early access to stuff. In fact we have a level that we have never had anybody populate and I really want to because it's the Dire Wolf level and if you go onto the Dire Wolf level you can name your own Dire Wolf, you can start a Dire Wolf pack. Oh my god. That could be you folks! Yeah, you could start a pack. That could be you. Start your own Nymeria pack. Yeah, that's cool.

I'm a little... I'm itching now. I kinda wanna pack. I wanna wolf pack. And then where can people find you on the internet? Like, what are some social media handles or whatever? On the social media? Well, we are on Twitter. We will not call it its actual name. We do exist there and I do check it. I do. We are. I will go on Twitter for the kiss by fire stuff because that's nicer. Tends to be nicer things in that algorithm.

I find we're on there. We do actually have a blue sky count, but I've never actually properly set that up. So, you know, it's OK. Well, and finally, I do want to bring up not just that but you've had kind of a busy year right because you put out Copper's End earlier on this year. I did. Can you tell everyone a little bit about Copper's End and where you can pick it up and buy it? I mean it's exciting you fucking published a book. Yeah I know but I'm British we don't like talk about ourselves. Oh well I'm sorry to do this to you. Welcome to America. Sorry.

Online. Welcome to America motherfuckers. That's it. They get it. They get it. So what is Coppizen? Coppizen is a book. It's kind of like light crimes. It's kind of what what Brits would call cozy crime, but it's historical crime fiction. We like cozy crime in this country, for some reason we're like, hmm murder, it's cozy, it's kind of thingy cozy up to. Oh yeah.

Good murdery book. It came about because I lived in a house. Just like this episode. Yeah, it came about because I lived in a house called Coppizend and it was an old police house in a village and I found out that there had been cells and people had been in prison in my house. Whoa. Yes. So like, okay. So it kind of came about, I was like, oh, I wonder what it would have been like in those days. And the book kind of came from there. So it's set in historical times.

Yeah. I love it. Even just the art on the cover is very so it's set in historical times. Yeah I love it even just the art on the cover is very cozy so I totally get that. Yes nothing like a good old cozy death. I think it's available kind of wherever you can get your books Amazon right? Where else? Where would you prefer folks purchase it? Wherever you want to. I mean you can get it from your bookshop you can just order it in if it's not a problem, you know, it's an independent book but you can order it from a bookshop if you want to support your local bookstore please do because that's nice. Yes. But it is also available on the big big store named after a jungle in Brazil which you can get it from there straight to your kindle if you want to do that but yeah you can get it anywhere really if you buy it that's nice but you don't have to see i'm not good at selling myself i

can't do it oh we'll tell you where to buy it below in the description uh we'll remind you of copper's end and of course of the kiss by fire pod patreon we're very excited to have you on and we will jump into the episode very soon, but first we have a little bit of housekeeping up top, including a POV reveal. Woah! Woah! Woah! But first, there will be a Patreon bonus episode for patrons in the Stranger Tier and above that's the $5 US dollar and above at patreon.com slash girls gone cannon stay tuned to find out what that is patrons you'll see a post about it very soon in your inbox and of course for patrons in the Thunder Tier and above we have some other perks going on right you just

missed brunch if you're tuning into this episode as it airs. Rip. Brappy Hour for the month. But you have another chance in October. At the very front of October, so right around the corner. October 6th, Sunday October 6th, you can tune in to our Discord Brunch slash Happy Hour, Brappy Hour, at 2pm Eastern Time. Happy Hour, Brappy Hour, at 2pm Eastern Time. And I think there will be a lot to discuss during this Brappy Hour, this Brunch slash Happy Hour, as Eliana has affectionately named it Brappy Hour, and I've slowly acquiesced to it. Yeah, I've given it names, you know, sometimes you gotta...

Yeah, where you can find Eliana folding her clothes and doing the dishes during Brappy Hour. There's gonna be a lot to discuss, I think, because you'll probably have just heard about the new POV because epilogues are over! Kevan dies at the end, so that's a spoiler. Just kidding, you should already know that. That's definitely a spoiler. We're rereading, we're rereading.

Spoiler. Yeah. That's definitely a spoiler spoiler. We're rereading, we're rereading. That bitch dead. But someone else who's very alive is coming. That's what she said. When I say very alive, well yeah, that too actually. This person has been anticipated,

I would say. Eliana, would you agree that this is an anticipated POV? I agree, the Kevin Stone part. There have been a lot of... A lot of people have been asking when this POV is going to happen. And, uh, well it's now, right? After Kevin, the perfect person to set up after Kevan has died is of course Cersei Lannister. We're gonna start today probably talking about a pair of twins

actually over in the Westerlands historically and next week we'll be back with Cersei in A Feast for Crows where we're gonna talk about some other twins. So we're gonna be twinning this fall I guess. Twinning hard. Wow yeah like a lot of people have been really excited about this POV for a long time so very excited to finally get here. And we've got a couple of fun guests, some of whom you can probably guess. Oh my god. Come in. Come in your way. What a packed fall. What a great way to enter fall. Wow. Anyway.

For those of you keeping track at home, after Cersei there are only two POVs left in the published POV reading order that's so fucking weird to say. We simply will not name them because it's just like what you know. Speculation either way and I Would like to bring up a marketing strategy for us at the end of Cersei which is going to be all must choose What do you think it is? Yeah, right? All must choose. There are two choices left. Two of the largest POVs in the story left. All must choose. All must choose. Let me know who you think it's gonna be down below in the comments.

Alright, well, let's jump into, I mean, let's jump into this lightning round. We're gonna start with the beginning of everything that's leading up to Kevin. We should start back, Garad said, as the woods began to grow dark around him. Or whatever, I'm close enough. I mean, literally though, right, if we did a real lightning round for this, it would be very long because it's everything. That Stark dies. Brain gets thrown off a tower. Oh my god. Okay, so we're not doing that, right, as this is the last published chapter. And I think a lot of us don't feel like it's the last published chapter, right, because

we have the wins a winner sample chapters, which I think we're gonna reference a little bit later on today. But this is the last published chapter, and I don't know, I was a little off my game, I feel like, last week. Not like bad, just like like I wasn't back in it to win it with a swath it's okay I wasn't back obsessed and loved and now I am right Pat was yeah thank god Pat was great last week big thanks for merit for Pat last week but he was enough for all of us but this week I'm like fucking in it you guys I spent like two hours yesterday reading the World of Ice and Fire, rereading

some stuff in Fire and Blood, rereading some stuff in the main books, like I was all over the place, I was making charts, making graphs. I'm out here and I feel very strongly about Kevin Lannister's first and final chapter here, especially considering the Reign Tarbeck revolt. I think we think a lot about the Reign Tarbeck revolt. I think we think a lot about the Rain Tarbeck revolt and the Reigns of Castamere and how it leads into what happens in the Red Wedding. But Kevin's life is kind of living in the shadow of not only the Rain Tarbeck revolt, but also his book ended with a Blackfire Rebellion, right?

So we're gonna take a look at that. If you believe that it's a Blackfire Rebellion, right? So we're gonna take that. If you believe that it's a Blackfire Rebellion, some people don't. Yeah, I think I do more and more every day, especially after doing this, right? Like after charting out a whole chart, I'm like, oh, it makes sense. We're gonna go into a little bit of a timeline of history and open it up for discussion about it at the end, but I really wanted to contextualize his life with that book end of the Blackfyre Rebellion. So we're gonna go back to 233 AC where Tywald Lannister dies in the Peak Uprising and Tywald

was Teon's twin brother, the heir to the Lannister Casterly Rock at the time. Tywald, the heir, dies in the Peak Uprising and begs Teon Lannister Casterly Rock at the time. Tywald the Heir dies in the Peak Uprising and begs Teon Lannister to take care of his wife in his dying breath in 233 AC and there's a beautiful, glorious double wedding at Casterly Rock following that. Teon Lannister to Ellen Reign and Tytos to Jane Marbrand in 235 AC. 236 AC we have the 4th Blackfyre Rebellion. As Ellen is ruling Casterly Rock in all but name, filling the court with all of the Reigns of Castamere, Tion dies. Tytos is made the unlikely heir of the time and Ellen and the Reigns are made to leave

court. Cause she fakes a baby. Kevin Lannister? made to leave court." Because she fakes a baby. Kevin Lannister. She fakes a baby. She fakes a baby. She's like, I'm having a baby. And they're like, not really. And then they're like, oh right, no, I'm not actually.

That's traumatic. Yeah, that's messy. It is. She tries to bed Titus. She's like, I'm going to sleep with him. It's messy. Hey, she's trying to keep in favor. You know, that's how it goes.

I know. But he's like so nervous he can't perform. And then immediately tells us why. He's like, I can't, she tried to make me have sex with her and I couldn't do it. I don't even know what to do. So yeah. Ellen is interesting. That is an interesting character.

Honestly, there's something to be said too for like all historical Ellen's that George has written. It makes me wonder like, George, what Ellen do you know? But that's a whole nother. It's a whole nother speculation. Yeah. In 244 AC, Kevin Lannister is born. From 248 to about 258, this is a very vague range. Kevin is sent to Squire slash Page for the Reigns. In about 258 to 259, he turns 16 and he is a man grown. He visits the Free Cities. Go Kevin!

He's like all over in this chapter. He like, you learn so much about his history. He's also visited Dragonstone in his life. But for his 16th name day, he leaves the Rain Court, a man grown, visits the Free Cities. And it's such a great, great time, what a gas, but in 260 AC, the War of the Nine Penny Kings occurs. And the fifth Blackfyre Rebellion basically happens. Kevin distinguishes himself out there in the war and is knighted by Lord Raine. After the war, in 260-261ish AC Tywin charges Kevin with upholding the peace, putting down robber knights in the Westerlands, gathering repayment of debts to the Lannisters. That's actually where he meets Dorna Swift, who he takes hostage when Harris Swift can't pay his debts to House Lannister. In about 261, Ellen Reign captures Stafford Lannister and two Lannisters of Lannisport when Waldron Tarbeck, her husband, is imprisoned because they wouldn't repay their debts.

Interesting, almost some Catlin vibes in there. That leads into the Reign-Tarbeck revolt. Tywin extinguishes the Reign Tarbeck houses without leave from his father. Tytos did not give permission, nor was he asked, nor was anyone gonna ask him. Let's be real. And Kevin demands the surrender of Tarbeck Hall, where Elin laughs at him, but she's then slain when his big brother takes the castle. 266 AC, Kevin falls in love with his hostage and marries her and 267 AC we get Tytos' death and his mistress is made to atone. There's a lot

happening in Kevin's history from like trauma to almost like a Theon Greyjoy-esque feeling of him like his second family he had to betray them. It was his brother's love or his second family in paging and squiring for house reign. Yeah, interesting. There's also something interesting with Tywin's protective streak over Kevan in some ways and how that might mirror with Tyrion and Jaime, right, in the main story. I don't know, what do you guys think about everything kind of surrounding his history that not only is he born and then there's the Blackfire rebellion

The then the fourth happens in right before his birth the fifth happens in the middle and now maybe we're looking at a sixth At the end right after his death that feels really significant for Kevin. It's a bookend. Yeah beginning middle end for him Yeah, it is really interesting that he chooses Tywin above everything, right? Because as you were saying about betraying your second family, and I don't know, like, it's not quite the same as betraying, like, your second family, but you think of Stannis, another second son, who chooses, like, what do I do? Do I go against the crown? I fucking love rules. That's what Stannis says. I love rules. Do I go against the king or do I choose my brother? And every time it seems as though Kevin chooses his brother and he really loves that. As we can see Tywin's siblings like really love him in a way that his children do not.

It reminds me of that succession scene where Kendall is asking Tom Wamsgans. He's like, like aren't you gonna join me? Come on, man, we can do it. And Tom is like, I don't know, I've seen you get fucked a lot, but your dad never gets fucked, so I'm going with your dad. And that's kind of Kevin, right? He's like, I've seen people get fucked in this biz,

but Tywin doesn't ever get fucked until he does. It's weird, because Kevin is an almost likable character. Yeahable character. You kind of like him, but then you go, but he stands by while horrendous war crimes take place. And how many of them was he actually part of? Like not just sort of standing by and watching, but how much did he actually perpetrate or do? Did you know what was he actually physically doing and how there's a cognitive dissonance in that we like him but we're also like oh god you're just quite a bad person as well yeah it makes you wonder what he did in the rebellion right or throughout the rebellion because we don't actually

really hear much about him during the rebellion at all. About like, what did you do for his brother? We hear about the the Reign and Tarbeck revolt and then nothing after that besides just here and there little bits later on. So that's kind of interesting to me that we have no history of his role for Tywin during that. Did he help him in the rebellion secure people or get people or was he just staying in the Westerlands holding down the fort? I would be really interested in knowing that. Yeah, he probably was, right? I mean, they weren't very involved in general until the very end, which is the whole thing

about the Lannisters. But yeah, I don't know. It's one of those things that it does a good job of showing George's approach to being the great characters. Because as you said, he's very complicit in a lot of atrocities. And it's even a little reminiscent of, for example, Barristan Selmy. So you were just following orders, but at the same time, you can kind of understand that Kevin deeply admires his brother who stood up for him in the face of like a father who did not, right? And how Tywin, as we see like later, very much overcorrects with his children, but why his siblings love him for

protecting them. Do his siblings all love him- I know that Kevin does. Jenna does a bit. I think Jenna definitely does. But you've got Tyget- Tyget? Tiget? I go with Tiget, but I don't know if that's like Tigger. Yeah, I was thinking Tigger also. I was like, I love Tigger.

Like the wonderful thing about Tigger is Tigger does wonderful things. Tiggers are kind of like a lion. Right. That's maybe that's what I think of. Like that's what I see in my head when someone says Tigger. Yeah. He's Tigger from Winnie the Pooh. Yeah.

I'm not sure that I feel like Jerec, Jerec, oh fuck. I don't know how to say any of their names. Geryon, Geryon. He wanted to... Who's Geryon? He wanted to take Tyrion away for a bit. And Tyrone was like, nah, you're not allowed. So, I don't know.

I do wonder if they didn't all... I know Jena loved that he stood up for her when she was betrothed to a Frey. A second son of a Frey, no less. when she was betrothed to a Frey, a second son of a Frey, no less. But I don't know. I do wonder if the younger brothers didn't love him all that much. Certainly didn't went as loyal. I get the vibes. Yeah, you have that great bit between Jenna and Jamie, right?

Where Jenna tells him a little bit of that context, that family dynamic. And she says, it's been hard for Kevin, living all his life in Tywin's shadow. It was hard for all my brothers. The shadow Tywin cast was long and black and each of them had to struggle to find a little son. Ticket tried to be his own man, but he could never match your father, and that just made him angrier as the years went by. Jarrion made japes, better to mock the game than to play and lose, but Kevin saw how things

stood early on, so he made himself a place by your father's side." And it's interesting because you think of some of these like really great dynamics with the Greyjoys, right? And how the brothers of Euron all dealt with Euron or didn't or you know were victims of him. And for Tywin it seems that Tigget was angry about Tywin and about how Tywin acted and wanted to be his own man, but failed in some ways. And Jarrion very much was his own man. He was kind of the blackfish of this family, is kind of how it seems.

He saw how Tyrion was treated. He wanted to help Tyrion escape that, and it seemed he was interested in some of these higher mysteries, right? What was he looking for when he set sail? Something, anything that was away from Tywin. Yeah. Yeah. I've now got an image in my head of Kevin fantasizing

about Tywin singing the wind beneath my wings to him. Aw. Aw. Just cause it's got literally the lyrics. It must have been cold there in my shadow. To never have sunlight on your face. So yeah. I bet Tywin could do it.

Literally though. Yeah. Literally. I think Kevin fantasizes about that quite a bit. Ty, I want him, he's gonna sing that to me one day. He might. Well, in death. Yeah.

Yeah. Exactly. Not there together. We're all together in the seven heavens. Wow. Yeah, that's exactly. They're together. Oh seven heavens Wow Yeah, that's exactly where they are. You're so right stuff. That is where they landed Yeah, no in hell Straight to Hades. As we open up this chapter I know that you were very excited actually to do this chapter

and I know you have your reasons but can you tell us a little bit about why you chose this chapter and what interests you about Kevin? Oh my god. I mean, what's not to love about this chapter? It is great. It is a weird chapter because it's not like many of the others at all. It peppers details from all of the threads of what's going on, so you kind of get a little bit of everything of like all the little places where you are. You hear

a bit about the North, what's going on with Dani, Greyjoys, you hear Dawn. Everybody's kind of mentioned, everyone gets mentioned. It's like kind of like a really good episode of something and you just get all the fan service, all your favorite characters turn up again you're like oh yeah oh yeah oh yeah but he also manages to do that, he also manages to do all that without it feeling totally expositional so it's not just a roundup it's not just like okay here's where we are you know previously on a song of Ice and Fire. There's also a story, and not just any story, but a really intriguing, exciting murder mystery happening at the same time.

You see Cersei for the first time after her Walk of Atonement. It's interesting to see where, how her character's going and the little things that she talks about. I just feel like it's a really beautifully crafted chapter because it is, you do get a mention of basically every single part of the story whilst at the same time creating a wider picture and a place for us to jump off and be like holy shit. It's that feeling by the end of it you're just like oh my fucking god when is the winds of fucking winter coming out and that yeah it's quite excellent i can't i think of it as a pointillist picture everything is made up of these tiny little things and i feel like that is he creates this incredible picture and image and story with these tiny little mentions, even for just a second, like one, two words or something, and you're like, oh, oh, that one. Oh god, yeah, and this person

and that thing. But you get a great story too. George RR Surratt. Yeah, I was gonna say Surratt. It's a good example if y'all want to look that up. It's spelled S-E-U-R-A-T. I was like, oh God, that's a spelling. It's also great to be in Kevin's head. We've never been in his head before. And he's an interesting person because, because we know Tywin from Circe's point of view, from Jamie's point of view, from Tyrion's point of view, from various other people's point of view, but

seeing Tywin from somebody who loved him is very different. Seeing Cersei from his point of view is really interesting as well. It's fascinating. Because he's so dumb. I'm watching and I'm like, oh, she's going to kill everyone. Do you not understand that? You're dying in two pages, buddy. It's over. She's going to kill everyone. I feel like the whole, the atmosphere of this one reminds me very much of the atmosphere that you have on Dragonstone in the prologue for A Clash of Kings. It's very dark.

The castle is dark. The cold is there. The whole time you feel this sort of, like, you feel like there is evil or treachery and darkness in the air. Winter is coming, winter is here and not just literally but in terms of death, in terms of the darkness that is going to follow. This is a very, to me it just feels very dark. We're in a dark castle, it's cold. I imagine at this council meeting that there are the lights, the candles are kind of spluttering because

the wind is maybe blowing on them and they're just kind of fizzing and maybe going out and someone has to go and put them on it. And it makes me want to put blankets over my shoulders. I feel cold while I'm reading it. It's one of those ways, I don't know how Gurm kind of creates just a way that you actually feel when you read it. When Kevin gets shot by the arrow you're just like what? Say what? What? Every time I read it I have the same like shock. When he's going down towards his death you have that feeling of no don't go, no don't go with the horrible mutilated children, Stay here!

It's terrible because you know it's gonna happen, like, because of the pattern of these chapters of these characters with these epilogues and prologues now dying, you get the idea like, oh, especially after Pate's prologue, you're like, okay, so we know what's gonna happen here to him, and it's very disappointing to what you've been saying of Kevin, like, he's actually a really great character to see the world through and get some of these details that he doesn't see, but we're seeing. And I really love that about his chapter too, of like, how much George is giving us. We're usually on a pretty short leash, I feel like. Now we're on an old short leash, you know? So... It's happening. A long-standing, very old, deteriorating one that I really need another

book right now for. Let's get into those first few lines. I am no traitor, the Knight of Griffin's Roost declared. I am King Tommen's man, and yours. A steady drip, drip, drip punctuated his words as snowmelt ran off his cloak to puddle on the floor. The snow had been falling on King's Landing most of the night. Outside, the drifts were ankle-deep. Sir Kevan Lannister pulled his cloak about himself more closely.

So you say, sir. Words are wind. I love that we're opening with a traitor, right? Especially with Kevan's connection to having been at court with the Reynes as a pageant squire for the Reynes in Tarbeck. Opening with no traitor and how he clothes with him dead, Kevin's always loyal to his family, right? So here he's doing a duty, I mean, almost akin to when we have Eddard as Hand of the King for Robert, right?

Like sitting, it reminds me of Eddard VII, him sitting on the throne, doling out justice. Traitors in his brother's court, whether it's Tommen's court, let's be real. We knew it was Tywin's throne and that's what he's protecting, Tywin's legacy. Yeah, definitely. I think the drip of the snow is very interesting. It immediately makes me go, oh my god, if it's ankle-deep in King's Landing, then what the fuck is it like in Winterfell at the Wall? Must be insane. Makes us realise just how cold this winter's gonna be. It's definitely not a normal winter. They're not gonna be... What do you mean? Last one episode. Stop. Waa-waa. Exactly. I did a little bit of nerdy research on Words of Wind. I wanted to know how many times it appears in the canon and it's 27 times across A Song of Ice and Fire. And what

I didn't realise was that, so I just assumed because it's used so many times that it's just all the books, but it doesn't actually appear until a storm of swords. So we go, we're into like the third book until we get words of wind and then George really really ramps it up and then in a dance of dragons it's just like most of the time. Like almost every chapter someone says words of wind, words of wind, words of wind, words of wind words of wind words of wind words of wind like I was like why are you did you just think about that during storm of swords you're like oh yeah I know I like this little term I'm gonna put it in there words of wind and then he obviously decided to add it a million times in dancers of dragons the dancers dragons it's also in quite a few of the I wonder if he was writing the Duncan egg novellas at the same time because it's in there quite a bit too.

He says words are wind, but some words are traitors words. Basically it's Blackfyre Rebellions is where Egg comes up with it. He says, that's what he says, like words are wind, but some words are traitors words. I do think we got a little play like with Eamonn and John, right, when he's telling him winds and words, winds and words. And actually, I think there's a little bit in the Cruss in Prologue, I swear we do get a words are wind or something similar, but he changes it up, right? So I think he really started to get, oh, words are wind is how I want to go forward with it and I love that and I'd be interested to compare everything that that's said by if it's all like every time someone says oh well it's just lies bro

like comparing what's actually being said how many times is it true? Yeah I think some of the characters are saying it to themselves to protect themselves like Brienne says that a couple of times like words of are wind, just don't let it harm me, you know, she's thinking about the stuff that people says to her, but I do, yeah you're right, do people just say words are wind to themselves because what's being said is correct, and I did very much enjoy egg on little baby egg pointing out like words are wind, but some words are traitors words. I can't remember the exact quote, it's annoying me, words are wind but some words are traitors words I can't remember the exact quote it's annoying me words are wind but some words are I've got it right here I've got it right here some words are wind sir some are treason ah yeah I love that some are treason yeah that's what he

says and that is in the mystery night a lot mm-hmm a lot because obviously that one is treason mystery night is pretty much written alongside Feast and Dance, and Hedge Night was moreover written closer to Storm, so there's a lot of those- those three were written along those last three books, which is very interesting. There's so much crossover. There's another Words of Wind reference in the Winds of Winter Theon sample chapter, and it's Stannis who says that and he's talking about the Blackfires again. He's talking about Bittersteel and Words of Wind.

They're coming. Yeah. They're coming. Yeah. So and Cersei says it a lot too. Yeah, I kind of was like, is this, is this, should I technically be considering that Theon sample chapter actually the last published chapter? But I don't know. I don't know. And we do have a couple of other chapters that are already written by this time that are in The Winds of Winter that got moved over there from

A Dance with Dragons because George was like, I don't know, it's too long and I'm just not gonna finish these parts. Whatever. I'm just gonna- I'll just delay it. It comes out next time, sorry y'all. And by that I mean in over a decade. And there's a lot in this chapter, right? You were talking about how it sets up so much for the big picture that I think would have paired well with like this chapter. I don't know that this would have been the epilogue. I don't know if we would have even gotten this epilogue at all in this way had those chapters not been moved to the Winds of Winter, because there is great stage setting for those conflicts like we see with the Aryan chapters in regards to young Griff and even like John Connington stuff in this one. And also again, as you were talking about, right, the weather and how things are changing, we get that in here, but we also get

a lot of like, the way that society is collapsing, like the dissolution of those societal standards, because you have Red Ronnet, like in just a second, offering to kill his uncle, which is that Kinslaying, they're just normalizing Kinslaying now, and that's against the backdrop of the Lannister family drama where, like Tyrion has just killed his dad. So we're about to see a lot more of that coming up here, right? With family infighting, I mean, what do we think, like, a dance with dragons is a reference to and we're gonna see talk about the dance and black fires and so forth. And whether or not they're black fires, like, I mean, a lot of people might not know that he is.

A lot of that family infighting coming to the forefront and Tyrion being like, I want to kill all of my siblings too. Could be fun. STACEY Tyrion getting blamed for this, right? Like, he'll probably get blamed for this. ST- Be like, I don't even deserve credit for this one. I wish I did. No. I don't think he, like, thinks about Kevin really. He probably does if we looked at his chapters, but he doesn't really think about him. VB- Not actively. Not actively. Ronnet declares he'll bring his uncle's head back to prove his loyalty to the crown

in the throne room, but Mace, who is now Hand of the King, doesn't trust that. He sends him back to the dungeons, promising to take him with them on the eventual march to reclaim the Stormlands. Ronnet had arrived with 20 men of arms to the city, and most of them were Gregor's old lot, commanded to King's Landing by Jaime. Mace makes a comment that in Maidenpool, one of them killed a man, and one was accused of rape. He had to gelled one and hang the other. Lannister spearmen are standing on one wall. Tyrell guards are on the other side, neither queen is present but you can feel that presence for sure. There's like total backdrop of Lannister versus Tyrell in this whole chapter. Kevin talks about how

he's got this number of people on the small council versus that number of Tyrell people on the small council and he's got his guards facing this way and their guards are facing the opposite way. There's, it's very much setting up. It's so stupid because it's, they're meant to have an alliance. Like they're literally meant to be married, family working together. It's like a typical family though. It's like family, we're like, yeah, we're family, but we all kind of really hate each other and don't trust each other. Like, it's- Yeah, Kevin especially is like, I like that he's having the same thoughts Cersei had, right? Like, oh, these fuckers are growing way too strong.

And even the language is very much like, you have all that language with Tyrion and the spinning of Illyrio's rings and how they're all spinning between black and red and green and black and red and green. And ha ha ha because you know, ha ha ha, the dance of the dragons, ha ha ha. Oh, really? Not Christmas? Green and black and green and Christmas colors, yeah. But you have that here, right? With the Lannister spearmen and the crimson cloaks and the lion-crested half-helms standing across the west wall of the throne room and Tyrell guards and green cloaks facing them from the opposite walls and that language is very much

there that there's going to be a dance within a dance within a dance and round and round we're about to go. I feel like his feelings though, it lends credit and weight to Cersei's thoughts. When you said that, that he's having the same thoughts, it made me think, you don't notice it. I think when we read Cersei's chapters, it's very easy to automatically dismiss some of the shit that she says because she's so paranoid. And you just kind of go, but are they really that bad? Are they really trying to play for power or are you just completely paranoid and insane Cersei. But the fact that someone

such as Kevin, who I think we're meant to think of as much more level-headed, someone with wisdom, if he's thinking, fuck the Tyrells, like they're really overplaying their height, they're reaching, there's too many of them, if he's thinking it too, then I think there's the subconsciously we're going, oh, Cersei was right. Yeah. I mean, they did kill her son, Pot. But it is all like Pot meat, kettle, right? She doesn't know that they killed her son. I don't think they know that they killed their

son. I think Elena probably kept that one very secret. Garland knew. I know. I think Garland and Margaie knew they were drinking out of the same cup. Did Mace though? I don't think Elena would trust Mace with that information. What does Mace know? Nothing. First of all, can we just back it up for a second?

Well, I do think it'd be really interesting if he's just been playing like, you know, stupid this whole time. That could be really interesting. For like 40 years of his life? Yeah, for real. All of whole time. That could be really interesting. For like 40 years of his life? Yeah, for real. The long game. I guess I know some other people that have done that too, so never mind. Anything that the Lannisters are doing, it's kind of very much they're projecting it onto the Tyrells, and it's not wrong.

Who isn't fucking grasping for power? A lot of them are, so that's not like crazy to think, but also, um, it's not, it's interesting cause you're saying like they should be allied, they're married, but if you're looking at it against the backdrop of what you called out Chloe earlier in like Kevin's family history, just cause you're in a marriage alliance, doesn't mean y'all ain't going to fight. Like that's exactly what he was raised in and like what he knows. So of course he's on his guard, even though they're married. It makes a lot of sense.

And even though it's number one ally, yeah, That doesn't mean that that family is your family. That's what history's told him. It's so improper. They're the royal bloody families. They should be setting an example for the kingdom, quite frankly. They should know better. Yeah, it's like all the other royal families that set an example for the kingdom. What are you talking about? What do you mean? STACEY You may know some of them. STACEY I mean, I have a royal family in my own actual country and they are a terrible example

of the way to behave not mentioning any names. Prince Andrew. So, you know. Yeah, I do really like the language though of they say that they feel even though Cersei and Margaery are not here that their presence is described as like, it says like ghosts at a feast and it really makes me think of I will say this a lot, Macbeth. Oh yeah, it's definitely meant to be that. Banquo is ghost. And you have a couple of things that kind of evoke that throughout this this chapter. Kevin feels the throne that is back. It's a giant spiky presence. He's like, it feels like a beast. And I'm like, okay. And remembers Ares atop it, bleeding, glowering down, but it's empty today. So that's why it feels like an animal. He let

Tommen remain with Circe before her trial and maybe even before her execution. Cause they're like, I don't know, they should probably spend time together, they're family. I liked the bit where he says he feels the itch, the chair is an itch between his shoulder blades because it's nice foreshadowing, there are daggers coming for him and he's not going to expect it, they're behind him. Although the actual arrow that gets him comes from the front, but it's from, he wasn't looking in the right direction. There was misdirection.

And it will literally go between his shoulder blades. It's a bit foreshadowy. It's definitely not a good thing if you feel swords itching between your back. I do want to call out it also makes me think the way it was described of like a giant spiky presence with Aerys glowering down with his eyes on him It sounds like a dragon, right? Like it reminds me of Drogon Also like a but also a black dragon On red. Yeah, so it almost has that black fire imagery as well

Wow, Egan the Conqueror not only is he a king and a conqueror, also a furniture designer. He's trying to make that dragon come through. What an artist. What an artist! I really feel it. That's why he loved Rainies, because she was a musician. He loves art. He should have opened up some kind of flat pack Ikea style Iron Throne.

I bet he'd be good at it. Everyone could have their own version in their house. I'd buy it. I'd buy it. I actually would iron throne. I bet he'd be good at it. Everyone could have their own version in their house. I'd buy it. I'd buy it. I actually would buy it. I'm a sucker like that. Yeah. I'm a fucking sucker.

But would you buy Mace's chair? Eliana would buy Mace's chair. Yeah. Would you buy Mace's chair? Mace, well, should we say that Mace has his own chair in the shape of a hand? He's brought it out the day he gets asked to be Hand of the King. He's like, I've got just the chair for it guys. I've, I've, how long, when did he have it made? Where has he been keeping it? Do you think he's sat in his room like he's had it and

he's just been sitting on it like stewing? Like when am I going to be practicing, practicing what he's going to sit and say? Like, oh yeah, I'm going to sit like this or put my hand on this. No, I think it's better if I sit that way. I definitely think of it as the, I sent you that meme of Buster Bluth, if you know Arrested Development, he's got a hand chair. And I think of it as a bit like that. Yes. Buster Bluth, the Floop Fooglies, Spy Kids Share. It's amazing design concept. It's got to exist.

Like Eliana, you said you've literally seen them on Facebook Marketplace. I've seen it a couple of times on Facebook Marketplace and other places. And like I've legitimately considered it. And I'm like, could be fun. How much was it running for? I don't know, like a hundred? How much was it running yet? That's not bad.

It's not bad. Yeah. Get it. Should have gotten to you. I love Facebook Marketplace. So about it. I thought I, I think I can make it work. I love Facebook marketplace. So about it. I thought I think I can make it work. I really trust myself.

Um, yeah, I really like also there's this, there's a lot of irony in this chapter, right from the foreshadowing, but other stuff like May saying that, oh, we will deal with Connington and his feigned boy in due time. And I'm like, oh, funny that you're calling this egg in a feigned boy. Because like, I don't know, Kevin's this egg in a feigned boy because like, I don't know, Kevin's letting Cersei, we're reminded about him letting Cersei spend time with Tommen right now and I'm like, oh yes, the feigned boy, the feigned Baratheon heir that you've literally like married your family into and everyone else in the family knows that's why they're like, what do you mean, Cersei? What do you mean? Like his father was really good at jousting. They're like, are you sure you want to say that?

And, uh, and all these other sports. And then you have also Kevin thinking about how, I mean, Pysel thinks of Red Ronit as reminiscent of John Connington being like, I remember when another Connington stood right here and was like, I'm going to bring you Robert's head and he's saying that when you reach a certain age, everything reminds you of something when you were young. And Kevin is at a really interesting age, right? He's like judging some of the younger people. He's like, they're just too young to know anything and the older people for that because he's middle aged. And we

have a few of the people who fought during the Blackfyre rebellions and all the ones who were there for the Ninepenny Kings that we know of. Like a lot of them have died off. Kevin was likely in there, but he's about to die off in a second, right? Or, you know, some of them were killed off by their sons like Tywin was. But that means that you have a lack of this generational knowledge to be able to identify or think of like interesting Targaryens coming from across the sea. Really reminds me of another time that we had to deal with that a couple of times, like in the few wars, like the Blackfires, and so, just interesting. I love that. Yeah, you're killing them off before they have the smarts to stop what's about to happen

all over again. Yeah. You know, like, this is all gonna happen again, just like it did before. You don't have the pattern recognition, because they're all dead. Yeah. And there's like super deep irony because they're calling him the famed boy because they're trying to dismiss that he's a Targaryen. They're like, it's just dismissive. It's a it's a it's a linguistical way to dismiss that Aegon might be a Targaryen.

But they're probably quite right that he is not actually they don't realize how right that they actually are that he's actually almost definitely not a Targaryen but he is not actually... they don't realize how right they actually are that he's actually almost definitely not a Targaryen But he is a Targaryen Just a differently styled Targaryen But her black dragon is still a dragon Yeah, yeah And they're too wrapped up in those semantics because like hysterically you have as you said your own bastard on the throne already Mm-hmm

They keep chatting about how the mountains men are very fucked up and belong at the Wall, and I'm like, do they? Because only dishonorable folks belong at the Wall in their eyes, and as Mace argues about who should belong to the City Watch or not, Kevin starts to think that Cersei was on to something about these Tyrells, and he thinks, the more more I give him the more he wants. Mm. See, Cersei was not as paranoid as we all think. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it can be two things. It can be two things. The language that they use, I can't remember who says that a dog takes after his master. Oh, that's Mace Tyrell. And obviously Gregor Sigil is a dog and therefore there's an implication

that essentially he takes after his master who was Tywin and so there's irony in there because they just seem to be forgetting that who was it that was Tywin that who was Gregor Clegane's master it was Tywin. Tywin said Gregor Clegane takes our obviously Gregor Clegane was a monster before he got to Tywin, but it's just a kind of like, oh yeah, a dog takes after his master and I kind of feel like he should go whoops, sorry, I didn't mean your brother. Obviously he's lovely. Tywin was a great guy.

And it's obviously, as we've talked about Tywin's shadow has always fallen over Kevin and how does I would love to know how Tywin feels actually about the brutalities of war that Tywin has perpetrated. Like Tywin was offered terms in the Reign Tarbeck revolt, because he burned down Tarbeck Hall, went off to the Reigns and the Reigns were like, we'll give you hostages, just, and we'll pay back all the money. And he's just like, nah, fuck that. I'm going to kill every single one of you. You're all dead.

And he drowns babies and, and we do hear in a lot in this chapter, we talk a lot about the Targaryen children, then their murder that comes up quite a bit. And you're just like, fucking hell, like Kevin, how do you? Yeah. I feel like he's in in probably a lot of denial about it. Like, has to kind of... He played with them every day, those kids, like every single one of those children, he knew them. He was at court with them. He grew up with those children. He grew up amongst the other Squires, right? Like, some of them might have been knighted at the same time

he was. Like, how do you take yourself out of that and somehow, how do you live with it? How do you live with it? And that's what Kevin's had to do. Yeah. Like what Jamie does, just put it in a box and stuff it all the way down, and that's what he's telling Tom to do. Yeah, go away inside. Normal. Aww. Yeah, that's how we men deal with our nightly feelings.

Mm-hmm. Well, Kevin tells them they need fighters against the Golden Company if Qyburn's whispers are true. The longer they ignore these adventurers, the stronger these adventurers become. What a great euphemism. They have a- isn't that so funny? Like, oh they're just adventurers but also they just keep getting stronger every fucking day.

Don't know what that means. They had a map painted of the incursions and and Pycelle reveals it, showing the coasts of Tarth, the Stepstones, Eastermont, and of course Storm's End, which allegedly Connington is moving in on. Mace thinks Connington couldn't take Storm's End even if he were Aegon the Conqueror. Besides, Stannis holds it. Why not let it pass to a new Pretender? Mace adds that when Margaery's innocence is proven, he means to recapture it. I'm like, oh, that's Tommen's, you know, it's important to have the ancestral Baratheon seat if you're parading a bastard as a- anyways, glossing over that. Yeah, and also Kevin's like, how do

you recapture something if you never captured it in the first place? And I did wonder if, has Storm's End ever actually been taken by anyone ever? I don't think it ever has, you know, in the histories. Is there any historical example of Storm's End ever been taken? I do think it might be technically possible by the dragons, but I will say that like, so this is a spoiler for this. Storm's End was never actually, they never arrived at Storm's End, there was a battle outside, near it, but they never actually conquered. They sent out Durrandon at Argalac.

Argalac. Argalac, that's it. I was like, something about garlic. Argalac goes and then he's like slain. I think there's something there to be said that like they didn't maybe want to chance it or like they already did it with Harrenhal. They wanted to show that they could take an untakeable castle even without the use of dragons to show that like, hey, we're just a force regardless. But I will say like, so spoilers, Winds of Winter in the Aryan chapters,

they do succeed in taking Storm's End. They do, they do. By guile. Yeah. So it is possible. They do. They do. By guile. Yeah. So it is possible. And that is the first. Yeah. Because otherwise it was only destroyed by storms ever. And that's why they created Storm's End, right? Like that original keep was destroyed and then they actually made Storm's End and then no one's ever taken it.

I mean, that's part of Stannis, right? Holding out during the rebellion and Davos breaking the siege to get them food. Yeah. I mean, even Melisandre can't do her magic unless she's inside the walls. Like, it's a very impenetrable castle. Yeah, it's interesting. The spells. And the, like, it's, it was built by the Durandans when he married a Storm God's daughter, I think it was. Eleni, yes. And then it was destroyed, but the seventh version of it, the one that exists now, that was the one

that couldn't even be destroyed by gods. They kept blowing it away, getting rid of it, and even the gods couldn't destroy Storm's End. So I find it super interesting that using nothing but Guile, and we don't know what really what that is, do we? We don't know how Connington is going to actually take stock. We know he's done it, but do we have details on how he did it? LS So not yet, but a lot of people have theorised that it actually might be from underneath Storm's End using the same way that Davos was able to smuggle Onions and then also smuggle Melisandre underneath and because Lord Connington would be more familiar with Storm's End and might actually know about that entrance. So a lot of people

have actually suggested that. So instead of letting Kevin respond about the martial planning, Mace declares the charges against Margaery are lies and the king should be putting this to rest. Kevin thinks that if you do that, the Whispers will follow her the rest of her life, though. But the High Sparrow has insisted on a trial, and a trial they must have. Very interesting that they're forcing both women to prove their innocence in bullshit cases. For what?

To satiate the High Sparrow and to satiate the lords that have heard about the wrongdoing? Like realistically, Kevin helped choose Cersei's punishment walk of atonement through the streets. The smallfolk didn't need to know about all that dirty laundry. It's a total power play. They really dug their hole on this one because I think Kevin's running into this circumstance that like, they're out of Lannister Allies they're out of Lannisters that are strong and have armies to support them all of the strong people in the house are either getting killed off or refusing to

Do their duty to the house because like of moral conscious or some bullshit these days with Jamie Whatever he's doing, but like they're out of people, right? So it's interesting the punishment they're incurring upon these women in the eyes of the Faith, and it reminds me a lot of like the Targaryen exceptionalism. I feel like they really dug their own hole here, right? Like they didn't need to further break down their own houses and punish their own houses in front of like everyone. Like I get that you thought you did but did you? It was a power play internally and now you're further breaking your power apart.

Why do you think he chose such a public and awful thing for Cersei? Because Tywin, I know he says later in the chapter Tywin would be okay with it. I honestly don't fucking think Tywin would be okay with this. Because it totally and utterly destroys the legacy of the Lannisters. Yeah, no, Tywin would never do this. Why would he make the Lannisters look bad? Like, exactly that, he would never do that. And it does make you think, like, I think he thought it's what his brother would do to appease maybe, or to punish, to remind Cersei her place in some aspects but also I do think that

like it was a fucking brain-dead idea and they don't have the bigger thing is they don't have the strength to fight the Faith. Like they don't have the strength to fight the Faith. The Faith is one of the many parties closing in upon them and turns out Aegon's gonna have the Faith in his fucking pocket. I mean we have Tyene infiltrating the Faith, right? The Dornish will have infiltration among all of the parties in King's Landing that are not in favor of the Tyrells and the Lannisters right now. They do not like them. They're fucked. Yeah, I mean, I agree. I think you see that a lot throughout this series, though, right?

And that's what we're talking about when we say that Kevin is a lot more like Cersei than he thinks that he is. And that they think that they know what Tywin would do, but they actually don't. And you see even Rob doing that when it comes to Ned, I'll come back to that in a second. But like, you know, Tyrion's the only one who really gets it and is like, yeah, I think Tywin would have poisoned all those bells. Yeah, he probably fucking would have. And I think Kevin and Cersei to an extent too, like both of them, like Kevin just understands that Tywin uses humiliation as a weapon against his enemies.

And we see that in multiple instances and never, as you were saying, against his own family. And it totally messes them. You see it with Tywin did this to an extent with Taisha, he's humiliating Taisha, but he would, anything that has to do with their own family and their sins, you don't put that out there to let everyone see it. You sweep that under the rug, right?

He did that with the twins incest, he did that with Taisha, and humiliates her, and even humiliates Tyrion, but that's all privately done, and with the performance of like violent masculinity. And this isn't that, and I think it's kind of like Rob being like, yeah, uh, And this isn't that. And I think it's kind of like Rob being like, yeah, my dad totally would have married this woman that I bedded for her honor. I'm like, no, your dad literally did the exact opposite. Yeah, really, seriously. I think he thinks that Tywin would have done it because Tywin did do that for his father's

mistress. He literally makes the comparison between his mistress being paraded through the streets. But that was a common, like in Tywin's eyes that was a common whore. Yeah. Cersei is not the same. A Sloth family. Cersei is the Queen Mother.

Yeah, that's the Queen Mother. He understands the trappings of power and what power looks like from the outside and how you have to trick people into thinking that you're powerful. Like even if you don't have it, you should be tricking them into thinking that you're still in control. And that's the big thing without him and without some of these anchors to the family, the Lannisters are out of control. They're out of control. Yeah, and Varys makes the point, it's the whole Varys thing of power resides where people believe it does. No more, no less. And Kevin also admits that essentially because of Cersei's walk through the streets, she's lost her power. Like, no one's gonna let her be queen anymore when they've seen her stretch

marks and her saggy boobies. I think Kevin doesn't realize that. Yeah, apparently, sure. Yeah, but he wants to humble Cersei, he doesn't want her to have too much power, but he fails to realize that Cersei's power is where their power derives from to an extent right now. That's their hold on the crown. So is Tommen. But Tommen's just a boy. You need her to have that respect for the rest of the family to hold it, especially in the loss of Tywin. Yeah. Otherwise, Tommen has no respect or no claim. He's just a boy. Yeah. We get an update on the war happenings. Stannis is in the north, Ironmen in the west, Sellswords to the south, the sparrow is in King's Landing, Paxter red wine should eventually sweep the Ironmen, and Garland Tyrell will

take the shields back, if they're lucky. Winter will come for Stannis, or Lord Bolton, and Connington. Well, Mason Randall don't really fear Connington's track record, nor the Golden Companies. Yeah, I really love this line of Defy the High Septon and we will have blood running in the gutters of King's Landing as well. If we are seen to be going against the gods, it will only drive the pious into the arms of one or the other of these would-be usurpers. And this is something we talk about quite a bit, especially in regards to Feast.

And we're going to be talking about it more in Cersei's chapters. But there's an assertion from a lot of readers. You see this debate a lot. They're like, oh, but the faith of the seven doesn't have any real power, just because no. I'm like, no, they just don't have magic, and they don't have miracles.

But they are the most powerful of the religions in many ways, especially within Westeros. It's just a different kind, right? They've got the power to create armies. they've got the power to like topple this regime right now. It's political power and that's one of the greatest forces in this story and to think that just because it's not magic, I think it's a bit of an oversight, right? And I think forlorism has that, but in Essos. Yeah, fanaticism of that. Beth and I on Kiss by Fire are doing Fire and Blood and obviously we are, I don't know,

58 or something years into the Targaryen dynasty. In all of that time they've only just put to bed the problems that they had with the Faith of the Seven. And even, it's only just, like, Jaehaerys has just sorted out that they won't mind that they are all incestuous. You know, he had to scheme and plan and plot and probably bribe and sort out this high septon and promise that job to that person and Maegor had to basically burn everybody and then some and then burn some more people

and even then they couldn't really put it down. You know, and Jaehaerys, like, it's taken a shit ton of work to have it so that the faith has no actual power. And you know, and Cersei handed it back in a five second conversation. She's like, yeah, sure. You can definitely, definitely rearm yourself. Desperation. Yeah.

Desperation is a dangerous thing, right? And Cersei was desperate for allies and boy, was that the wrong choice. Stupid. I was not your ally. Yeah. That man is not your friend, Cersei. FYI. No.

Oh. Oh. So confusing sometimes to be a girl. Girl, girl, girl, girl. I can see a note on your notes saying Jean Parmesan. Oh, we're just saying nonsense. Jean! You got me again! I don't know, the way the cook says the sparrow is in Kinsania. The sparrow is in Kinsania and I was like the eagle has landed. Are you saying that the high sparrow is Jean Parmesan in disguise? In this exact moment, yes.

But also with the eagle too and him being in Veep as well as the character. Oh my god that's amazing. Where they jokingly call him the eagle. That's also why I made the other. That's amazing. It's a whole, you know, we're just making love in the margins. I just love that. Like love the idea that Lucille Booth might just suddenly be, Gene is that you? And it's like, it's me, Gene Parmesan. He's the high sparrow. You heard it

here first guys. Wow. Yeah. Kevin isn't quite as confident as the other council members about John Connington coming in. He's like, John Connington was pretty headstrong, pretty arrogant, energetic, and pretty good at martial arms. So that's kind of why Ares named him Hand for that little bit of time. He was young and vigorous and matched Robert's freak. But he does talk about, because Tywin basically assumed that he was going to be called back essentially by Aerys. He's like okay I'm waiting, I'm waiting for the phone call. He's sitting by the phone.

He's waiting, he's been left on read basically by Aerys. And I do wonder, it's quite an interesting what if, if Tywin actually had been summoned back and if he had gone back to King's Landing, like, he's the one who basically trashes King's Landing in the end. Total slight. It's a total slight, right? Like, that they- they called- he called John Connington before, he called Aerys. Or before he called- before Aerys called Tywin. Before Aerys called Tywin, he called John Connington. Like, I'm sure Tywin took that as a slight. And the other one?

The other one, yeah. Rossard Tywin took that as a slight. And the other one. The other one. Yeah. Rossard and uh, like nobody's and then he's like, I'll call Tywin, but I, it's like, it's really interesting to think, okay, what if he just sent the Raven WhatsApp to him? Send him like besties, like, do you want to come back? And would Tywin have gone, do you think Tywin would have gone? And do you think he would have, would he have, would Tywin have gone? Could have avoided some of this. Do you think Tywin would have gone? And do you think he would have, would he have, would Tywin and the Lannister's presence have turned things for the Targaryens?

Do you think? Probably, but not for Aerys. I think Tywin would have used that time to strike a deal with Rhaegar potentially. Well he definitely wanted Rhaegar. Instead because he felt Rhaegar was easier to control. Do you think he thought Ea Rhaegar was easier to control? Oh, interesting. Maybe. I thought he thought Rhaegar was not as stupid as Aerys and Orphal. Yeah. Not as stupid, but also I do think Rhaegar is easier to control because he's young and eager and thinks he can make all this great change and

would be very easy to smoke and mirrors and say yes my prince we're doing this for you and then Rhaegar could slink back to prophecies. Yeah he could go off to the libraries and try to make more prophecy babies. And do you think that Tywin would want to be the blood raven, you know how blood raven is basically ruling the kingdom while Aerys the first is off in the library looking at prophecy shit and then Rhaegar be kind of the same. He's off making prophecy babies and Tywin could rule the land. It's easier to let him, isn't it? I mean Tywin's law and order, maybe his methods obviously aren't desirable for all of us, but law and order. I really liked the, so this is a little one of my little peppers, my little points, the

little pointillism or peppering. I've got too many, I'm gonna say little pepper, peppery sprinkles of how you just get sudden mentions of people and you get one mention of Merriweather because Lord Merriweather was also Hand of the King before, again, so that's another one that Aerys went to before Tywin. So he had Merryweather and they talk about Merryweathers in action and that's why Ares then looked for another hand. And it makes us again think about the Merryweathers and how they seem like a very small insignificant kind of nobodies in a way but they're also quite important because they are... Tyena is like in, I was gonna say in Cersei's pocket but I think I think Cersei's in Tyena's pocket if you know what I mean.

That's true. Indeed. She was in that pocket. In that hot, mearish swamp pocket. Indeed. She was in that pocket. In that hot, mirrored, swamp pocket. But the Merryweathers were, I want to know if the Merryweathers, so they said that he was inactive.

So old Lord Merryweathers inaction had allowed the rebellion to take root and spread. And I think that Ares, the war, the rebellion, essentially so much was allowed to essentially happen without the Targaryens doing very much. In so many ways, the Targaryens should not have lost that. Like, they were the power, they shouldn't have lost this war. It makes me wonder if the Merryweathers at the time were actually helping a different side. Were they actually

trying to bring down the Targaryen dynasty? Is that the reason for the inaction? That they just like didn't do anything and allowed Robert to win? You know, there's so much time passed. Like if you think about how much time actually passed before the Targaryens even did anything, like the Vale, Robert and Ned, Ned crossed out of the veil, got on a boat, went all the way around, head up to the north, called his banners. You know how long it takes Rob to call the banners and get them all into fucking Winterfell and you're like, why has nobody in the target, why is no one doing anything yet? Like there's nobody's done anything and it amazes me that it wasn't sort of stamped out earlier that nobody had that. So it makes me wonder was this part of

the plot? Was somebody actually, someone like Orton Merriweather who was the Hand of the King, was he deliberately delaying, prevaricating? Was he actually, because Orton and Tyena, the reason I'm saying this is because Orton and Tyena are almost certainly, in my humble opinion, up to something and potentially helping Blackfriars or have their own agenda or maybe they're working for Littlefinger. I'm not sure, but there's Orton and Meriwether on the council does odd things that makes me go, why have you just said that? That's not true. And Tyena is quite clearly up to something. So makes I what is one of the reasons I love this book and this whole series of

books is because you don't think of the Merryweathers as like big and important, but suddenly you're like, are they actually like a big reason why some of this shit is happening? And we just didn't think that because they weren't a big reason why some of this shit is happening and we just didn't think that because they weren't a big house? I look back at history and they were such staunch Targaryen supporters. They supported Maegor, they supported Rhaenyra, they tried to marry into Aegon III right during the cattle name day, maiden ball, whatever. So later on he was, I want to say he was chosen to be a regent, I think, for Aegon III too.

So you know, in history the Merryweathers were staunch supporters and I think we're gonna see an influx of people that do think that Aegon is the real Aegon Targaryen as well. So I think that there's maybe even more of a point of like, they're some of the friends in the Reach, them, the Tarlys, all these people that are trying to support a Targaryen restoration but don't know maybe that it's not a real quote unquote Targaryen restoration, you know? I think there's something there for sure. So I do wonder if the Merryweathers will be on Fagon's side, and maybe have been. I think Varys may have got to them already and that that

is that they're actually maybe working for Varys. Maybe. And they, but Varys has told them that it's Aegon. Yeah. It's Aegon Targaryen. And they're like, great, cool. Let's bring Aegon back. And they don't realize that it's somebody Blackfire, possibly Eggon Blackfire. His name may actually be Eggon, but he's just Eggon Blackfire. Yeah. I mean, everyone's named Eggon, like whatever. Everyone's Eggon. Everyone.

There's a business near me, near where I live called Eggon. And I go past it all the time and I'm like, is it just filled with Targaryens? I hope so. To building, filled with them. Filled with potential Targaryens that you could choose to launch a rebellion. Could be Frey. Yeah, could be, but it gon' Frey. They must know how to turn one.

Freyze. So Tywin had not appreciated Jon's appointing cause he thought that Jon Connington was too young, too bold, too eager, and in Kevin's opinion, the Battle of the Bells proved that. That failure may have made him stronger, though, someone more seasoned, more dangerous, and it's said that he has a Targaryen pretender with him. Kevin then remembers the day that Tywin laid Rhaegar's children at the foot of the Iron Throne, that Rhaenys was definitely recognizable, but Aegon hadn't been. Tywin said it was, and they took him at his word. Yeah, I love that emphasis on, like, I don't know, we took Tywin at his word because now Kevin's wondering, wait, did my brother lie to me?

And wondering, should I be doubting the guy that I've been following this whole time that I put on a pedestal? And I don't think Tywin, to the Tywin to the best of his knowledge did not. He's like, that's it, that's the kid, I killed that baby, I'm so proud, but don't tell anyone. Well Tywin wasn't even there. Tywin didn't actually see it happen. But he like ordered it. Amory Lorch, he was the one who was supposed to have killed Rainies, right? Mm-hmm.

Because he... Fuck her. Fuck her. He also apparently killed the last, I want to say one of the Tarbecks in the rains. There's rumours that he, that one of the children escaped and he threw them down a well. We just love killing kids. It's just like, what a guy. What a guy. Is he single? Like, oh. Love that. Love that for him. He's a kid murderer.

Well those aren't the only whispers of Targaryen that are on the wind also. Daenerys Stormborn is on the wind as well. Uh oh. As mad as her father claims Mace, okay. Dragons claims Pycelle from what they're hearing out of Old Town. But Dany is the real deal. There's no doubt that who she is, they're like, oh, as mad as her father. So I'm a big Dany lover. I love Dany. I love Daenerys. And I just, in this chapter, the mention of Daenerys and her dragons, I find it so exciting because it's finally arrived in Westeros. Not just that there were rumours of dragons. It's like, no, it's, it's undoubtable now.

They, there's too many stories for it not to be, you know, false or like weird or strange sighting. It's definitely and it's and therefore Dani is as opposed to egg on possibly Targaryen, possibly Blackfyre, we don't know, or just piss water prince potentially if Tyrion is right. Just any guy, any kid with Tar... with Valyrian features. Like there is doubt there but Daenerys, there's absolutely no doubt of her sort of family line, her ancestry, and the fact that she has dragons absolutely proves who she is. And I just find that really exciting. She has the dragons, it's her. No matter who Aegon is, he doesn't have the dragons. She's

got the dragons. He may have Blackfyre, the sword, he might have Aegon's crown or whatever, but she has the fucking dragons. And I find it exciting. But she doesn't have a penis and that's the most important part. That is much more important than anything. So I remember when the final episode of this latest series of House of the Dragon aired, we had the image of Daenerys hatching the dragons in, who's he? Daemon's thing. Obviously this is show canon, not book canon.

But I got vibes of Daenerys from Rhaenyra that whole way through the way she had her hair plaited. And I do think the reason that the Dance of the Dragons is in, like so much time is spent on the Dance of the Dragons. I think it's because we're absolutely 100% gonna get not a repetition, but a rhyme of that with Daenerys coming over and how she's gonna have to deal with her potentially with Aegon and the war that there is. And I think, I feel kind of sad saying it, but I think Rhaenyra's end is gonna potentially be similar.

Is Dany gonna have a similarly like, you're not gonna win personally, you're gonna die, but maybe your legacy lives on? You know? Because obviously Rhaenyra doesn't make it, but it's her children, it's her line that continues, so yeah. All right, real fucking depressing, thanks. Sorry everybody. Anything else for the class? Hand out a lithium while you're at it, Jesus. I'm just kidding, I'm just kidding. Bringin' down the mood, I say, about Kevin dying. Well I mean, like, hilar, though, another thing that's funny that May says, everything

that May says is kind of funny. And he says it again. He's like, I, well, I, he's like, she's as mad as her father. And Kevin's like thinking you supported Ares and House Targaryen literally till the bitter end. I mean they didn't do very much, he didn't exactly fight. He sat and feasted outside Storm's End. But still, he was like a fucking Targaryen stan the whole way through, and now he's just conveniently forgotten that he was one of those people. So technically technically he should

really be on Daenerys' side. VB – He'll die too. A – Yeah, that's true. VB – They all do. ST – Yeah, but someone else in this room is probably, I'm not Daenerys' side, but someone else in this room is probably gonna fall in with Aegon's stuff. He's been waiting for Targaryen to come back at any fucking moment. It's like, finally.

But Mace already threw his, played his hand. He's with the Lannisters now. Can't go back with that. You gotta ride the horse that you got. And Mace thinks that, Dani's at the end of the world, right? She's never coming back. And I'm like, sometimes I think that too, because it's been like more than 10 years, Mace. But anyways, Kevin thinks that she will join her strength to the Targaryen Pretender with Connington and they must destroy Connington now before Daenerys can come west. And if they had money, they would- actually that's not a bad plan. If they had money, they would bribe the Golden Company to leave.

It's not gonna work because some packs are signed with blah, but whatever. They needed a new source of coin though, the Iron Bank, the Pentoshi, the Mirish. Someone. Whatever they needed a new source of coin though the iron bank the pentoshi the mirish Someone don't the Lannisters have any gold. I think they're out I don't know don't ask the the pentoshi by the way, I don't know if you'll get money from them Illyrio's busy also coming up the John-Con chapters like Hysterical they're gonna bribe the Golden Company to leave. We tried that already. Like that was already something that possibly could have happened, but they're all in on this death wish to be on Aegon's side now. It's not the worst plan though, it's actually not a bad like first choice. Yeah I mean no no, better

Aegon than the Lannisters. I mean if we're gonna rank them, but. Oh I just mean the bribing, like to get rid of them. Oh no. Makes sense as a plan. Yeah, cut out the war, man. Do you not feel sorry for Sahara Swift though? I feel sorry for him. I feel sorry for anyone who's master of coin because it's the worst job and I don't think you could, there isn't enough money in the world that you could pay me to have that job because they, I was trying to think when I was doing some research, I was trying to think about the other Masters of Coin that we have seen, and they always, apart from Littlefinger, because he just, yet, exactly, he's not Master of Coin anymore, but they all have like terrible lives and horrible ends. There's like, um, Rago Draz, like gets murdered horrendous,

horrifically. They don't even like Tyrion. Tyrion is master of coin for a short time and everyone fucking hates him and they call him an evil demon monkey person and Keltagor. And he becomes master of coin for her and puts up loads of taxes and then they chop his penis off and dangle it in front of his face. And that's how he dies. So I just people don't like taxes. I think it's Kevin who says half the Lords could not tell taxation from tyranny. And that's just a terrible.

No one wants that job. It's awful. You could turn it down. yeah could you? can you? can you turn down a job? i think we know from ned that can you really actually turn down something that the king asks you to do? i think he was gonna but then he was like i gotta do this and then later on he was like no now i gotta do this. but could he have really turned it down? like would the king not be genuinely really offended if he's like, I want you to do this job for me? Like, you've got to have a really good reason. You've got to have like a better excuse than just like, I can't because my raccoon has hepatitis. It's, it's, you've got to have something better than that.

Harris Smith ain't doing shit, yeah. And also funny when you think of like, he was poor and he couldn't pay the Lannisters during the two 450s. And that's why Kevin has a wife now. He'll know how to budget then. If he had, if he didn't have the money, he's probably gonna really get it living on a budget. Yeah. That's true. I'm saying, sorry, we can't have beef this week.

We can have chicken instead. So. We have chicken at home, literally, rooster. His sigil. That's a very good point. His sigil is the rooster. We have another one too here with the red ronit. Oh yeah. They're griffins, I guess. I don't know. I just think of them as a rooster for some reason. I think of them as roosterish as well.

Yeah, because he's a giant's cock. And he gets the name ronit. Something about it. Yeah, that's true. Thank you. So there's this line here when they're talking about like Daenerys is she's gonna come here like it's it's inevitable and they say the girl is blood of Aegon the conqueror and I'm like interesting that they said the blood because Chloe and I have been talking a lot about how the prophecy says from my blood come the prince that was promised and how we don't think that that actually means it's Aegon's line. But Rhaeny's is because we think that Aegon might have been sterile, but I was just like,

oh, blood of Aegon the Conqueror, like from my blood. And then that being like, that Jod is my blood. So anyway. I definitely think that Aegon was sterile. Yeah. I definitely think that Aegon was sterile. I 100% agree that Rhaenys made Aenys out of somebody from her court, a musician or something. And that Maegol was formed with dark magic. IVF. Valyrian. Valyrian-style IVF. Yeah, Valyrian is what the V is, yeah.

You know, there's an idea that gets put out here in Council that Harris Swift could go to Braavos and treat with the bank. Don't know if that'll ever happen. Just kidding, it happens. And Harris is like, my coffers aren't full from plundering Maidenpool and Dragonstone, like you mace. And Mace is like, there were no riches on Dragonstone to be found. Okay. Kevin Lannister had seen Dragonstone with his own eyes and doubted very much that Loras Tyrell had searched every inch of that ancient

stronghold. For sure. And you know in the past I didn't really care or believe anything about Loras being at Dragonstone but now especially with all of the Dance of the Dragons stuff afoot these days, I could definitely see in a very Eric Aric-coded way Loras going over to Dani. Oh yeah, that'd be interesting. He's just like there. He's like, yeah, I don't know. We acted like I was dead, but I've just been chilling in this castle. Waiting to yield it to her. I don't think he's dead. I don't think he's injured. Yeah, I need to go live.

I've heard a theory that he's actually not, and it's all a ruse, and I can't think he's dead. I don't think he's injured. I've heard a theory that he's actually not and it's all a ruse and I can't wait. I can't wait for Winds of Winter. It's coming out soon and then we'll find out. Yeah. Yeah. Actually, it's already out. Look under your chair. What? Welcome to your chair, everybody. That's so cool. Usually it's just a mouse pad, but this time it's Winds of Winter. Anything for you, babe. Anything. Thanks. Thank you.

As a Targ and Valyrian lover, I very much enjoyed this little quotation from Kevin. The Valyrians had raised it, aka Dragonstone, and their works stank of sorcery, the implication being that Dragonstone has secrets that if you're not Valyrian maybe you can't plunder, maybe you can't get, you know like in the show when they lit the painted table, which we've seen in like no one has thought of doing that, only Targaryens would be like I'm gonna set this on fire and you'll see all the secrets or the same thing with the dagger. It's like the prophecies written on the dagger. I don't know that show canon, but it made Beth and I think of what else is in Dragonstone that if you set it on fire, there's something else hidden. Like

are there secret rooms? Are there secret things? Are there secrets written on walls? Like, what is that dragon stone? It is a completely weird place, if you think about it. It's like this weird, perfect little island for nowhere else in all of Westeros. Really, it's the perfect place for dragons to hatch. And yet, there is this one island that deals just as well as Valyria of Old did, like this is, there's this one other place that they can survive, that they like, that it's the right kind of temperature, that it's got volcanic fires and it just happens to exist right next to Westeros. They're obviously, he talks about like, were there any dragon's eggs there?

They didn't find any, but were there dragon's eggs? Are there hordes of dragon's eggs hidden like in tunnels, near volcanoes? I mean, how long would it take you to scour all of Dragonstone to find potential exciting, interesting things? I would go on that adventure. I would definitely. Adventurers. I mean imagine the Dragonmont, right? Like, no one's probably gone into the Dragonmont in ages. There's nothing in there, or is there? And they dismiss that there's no gems and jewels, but they don't realize that it's full of obsidian,

which their lives are going to depend on obsidian. I don't care about that right now. Yeah. I don't care about that right now. I don't care about that right now, but it's like, oh, there's nothing of value there. It's literally what you're going to need to continue existing at some point soon. But I would absolutely love to know what else is hidden there, what's on Dragon's Throne. It's interesting because I would also assume, I was like, I don't know, maybe there really isn't very much money there because otherwise Stannis would have found it and that man's also poor that man is also struggling right

now to fund his little campaign but at the same time as you said right like there are so many hidden things that if you don't know the ritual to get into it then you probably can't find it and Stannis definitely doesn't. Yeah. Stannis wouldn't know and I reckon I 100% believe that Stannis would have burned a lot of shit when he got to Dragonstone, when he was given it. He probably, if the scrolls that we see in the show are real and Book Cannon and Ray Nero had all those wonderful odd scrolls, I bet you Stannis was like, oh, this is all heresy, let's get rid of it, let's burn this shit.

He's a book burner for sure. Yeah, for sure. It's maybe, maybe now, but he wasn't when he got there. Right. You think? I don't know. He's really into studies. He's really into studying.

But he hated Rhaenyra, and that was her stronghold. He calls her the usurper. I don't know if that's hate necessarily, moreover, it's like that's just how it is, that the sun comes first in his mind. It's just general sexism. Yeah, he's just a sexist, you know, like rooted in hate, but more of like a born with it thing. Maybe he's born with it. Yeah, maybe he's born this way.

The most anti-gay version of that song that you could sing. Maybe it's Maybelline. Maybe he's born like that. My heir is a girl. It's okay for her. It's okay for her. It's different for me, Stannis Baratheon. Actually, Shereed does rock. So they move on to the trial issue. Cersei has elected trial by battle with Sir Robert Strong, a very anonymous new zombie

Kingsguard that no one actually knows who he is. We can't figure it out as her champion. Kevin, of course, has a suspicion that he might be Gregor Clegane. Totally crazy theory. What? I'm dismissing it right now. No way. And I do like this line, they say, dead men do not shit. I'm just missing it right now. No way.

Uhhh. And I do like this line, they say dead men do not shit, and I'm like, well, that's really interesting that you say that, Kevin, because that's not what I learned from your nephew's chapter and also from the end of this very same one. Yes, they do shit. It's a good transition, though, from the last chapter, where Daenerys is very much alive and very much, the more she drank, drink the more she shot, but anyway. Yeah.

That's a good Friday night. Yeah, ugh. Oh god. It's a Saturday morning. What are you talking about? Um, we have the line, of course, that Robert Strong is Cersei's only hope. If Cersei is guilty, Tommen's legitimacy is called question, and Margaery is no longer a queen. Again. For like the second time. Third time, I guess. Third time.

So there's that line too, kyburn vouches for Robert Strong. I'm peeing myself laughing. I am like shaking laughing. Hysterical. Hysterical. We have, of course, this, we have this great passage from Kevan. Steph, would you do us the honors of being Kevan in this passage? Okay.

Whatever Cersei may have done, she is still a daughter of the Rock, of mine own blood. I will not let her die a traitor's death, but I have made sure to draw her fangs. All her guards have been dismissed and replaced with my own men. In place of her former ladies-in-waiting, she will henceforth be attended by a sceptre and three novices selected by the High Septon. She is to have no further voice in the governance of the realm, sorry I can't even say it without laughing, nor in Tommen's education. I mean to return her to Castle Yrock after the trial and see that she remains there. Let that suffice."

We'll see. Well, yeah, she's definitely, definitely gonna just do what he says, for sure. But we know from the Mercy chapter, right, that Cersei is absolutely not going to go to the Rock and as it quotes make no further mischief that's what his words are I lauded that bit so fucking funny sure I mean even just like this chapter I'm like you still think she's very um very very Demure like yeah Demure we'll get to it's very funny of him I'm like you're so fucking dumb Kevin you do not understand woman one bit. That's why you had to hostage by your wife.

Uh, Jesus. So, not just that, but then like, we also know that Cersei survives and Margaery is going to survive her trial because in R.E.N. 2, in The Winds of Winter, spoiler alert for The Winds of Winter, you should read this chapter. Rian too, Maisturelle's marching on Storm's End, so he wasn't gonna march until she was good to go. Mm. So we know they win, which is very interesting, right, if you look at that like from an outside perspective when you're like, who's- what's gonna happen at these trials? We already know. So there's gonna be a lot of bullshittery that's about to happen, even though we already know what happens there.

That means crazy shit's gonna happen after that. VB- Absolutely. VB- Very crazy. Kevin thinks Cersei is soiled goods because she's been seen naked by everyone, because, you know, even though you don't see king saggy boobs, women saggy boobs means they can't rule. No queen could be expected to rule again after that. He thinks she had been a goddess before in jewels and gold, but now naked she was but a human, a woman with stretch marks and sagging teats.

Good God. Yeah, right? Oh no. Oh no. Okay, so you want them to have kids, but you don't want them to have stretch marks from their body growing quickly and the elasticity of the skin. You- my god. Better to live shamed than die proud, Sir Kevin told himself. Like himself. And it's interesting though, the idea of live shamed and die proud. I think that's literally the opposite that everyone ever says, like, I will not- I want to die my own way, or like, that is- no one ever says that in this whole book like I Definitely want to die proud of myself or with honor

He's like no, no, it's better. It's better to just live with shame Just well, maybe it is like I mean, that's what happens with John Khan, right? That's what happens if you think about it Even with Ned, he's like he's living in shame Yeah, he does get to and he dies shame to actually know that I think about it, even with Ned, he's living in shame. He does get to, and he dies shame too, actually, now that I think about it. Yeah. Yeah. But there's something to say to that because, you know, Dying Proud, it's like that line that you say that your roommate loves to say, Chloe, you know,

Men's lives have meaning, not their deaths. Yeah. And... Mmm. That's true. You don't get to feel shit about your death. You get to feel shit about your life. And that's what matters. Yeah. You can still do something with it. I do think there's something regarding the way that they describe Cersei and when we talk about the trappings of power,

because that line goes, In gold and silk and emerald, Cersei had been a queen. The next thing to a goddess naked, she was only human. And it makes me think a little bit of the way that Cleopatra is described in the play Antony and Cleopatra by Shakespeare. When they describe Cleopatra's beauty, they never actually say anything about what she looks like. They say things like, I will tell you the bard she sat in... God damn it. I will tell you the bard she sat in like a burnished throne. Burned on the water, the poop was beaten gold, purple the sails and so perfumed that the winds were lovesick with them, the oars were silver which to the tune of flutes kept stroke and made the water which they beat to follow faster, blah blah blah. In her pavilion cloth of gold of tissue or picturing

that Venus where we see the fancy outworked nature on each side her stood pretty dimpled boys like smiling cupids with diverse colored fans whose wind did seem to glow. The ultimate cheeks which which they did cool, and what they ended did, and the other things they described, like her gentle women, right? They talk about the perfume of the barge and all the people and all of the power and extravagance around her. And it's interesting that it's the power and the extravagance that makes someone beautiful, not actually anything intrinsic to themselves. So I thought that was really, really interesting. And the way that we perceive, in general, perhaps beauty as a society and not that it is about class and riches. But also, and then he promises that Cersei will give no more trouble which bold claims bold claims and

Discuss Margaery's trial by the faith and Kevin wonders if Margaery is so innocent Why is Mace's army present while she faces her accusers? I don't know same way same reason that you put Cersei and gold and silk and emeralds, bro And or took her out of them. We should say that's true. Kevin no longer wants to talk about it though, right? Like he's like, let's not talk about my niece fucking everyone Let's talk about your daughter. No, I'm joking. Let's talk about let's not talk about people fucking Yeah, he asks Paisel what's left on the list before they can close out the small council meeting He says Marcella is coming to town with Tristain seems notable

Mace thinks they should get her a better match than the Dornish, and Kevin's like, Oh, like your heir, Willis, in his head. But they may be able to use Dorn to fight John Connington, he says. Haha! Ooh, you dumb bitch! Oh, like D in Always Sunny. Oh, you dumb bitch! Ah, god, they're so fucking dumb. They're so fucked.

There's a lot of this, this chapter, especially this bit with Pysel goes through all the points. This is steeped in irony. It's just dripping with it. And it's very similar to when Cersei has her council meetings and people say stuff and she dismisses it or says this and that. And you're just like, oh, you just don't even know Dee, darling, you just don't even get this, you're just, you're so stupid. Yes. Put in the bullet points out for like, by the way these are all the things about to fuck them over. Yeah. And literally a list of everything that's gonna be a problem to them.

Yeah. Yeah. Like the construction of this chapter is literally like a lot of Cersei's because Kevin keeps having those little biting thoughts internally and then says a different thing aloud. And I don't know, they're slightly more competent, but I don't know if they're actually that much more competent anyways, and it just does a great job of showing how the Lannisters think that they're above everyone else. Or at least the ones who are like, I'm so like Tywin, I'm so smart and the best. And then turns out... Not at all.

Maybe not. Maybe just be yourself. Everyone should just be themselves. I don't know. Maybe themselves sucks too. Yeah, probably. I don't know. Maybe stop trying to be like Tywin.

Let's start there. Baby steps. And then, you know, you're talking about all the things that are coming into play. There's, they talk about also the Rosby inheritance hanging around and I don't know, no one here cares. I care. I very much care. I think the Rosby inheritance is going to be actually way bigger than anyone realizes

because it's a tight, it's a little thing, it's George doing his thing where there's like a little tiny piece of pepper, boop boop, just gonna put it on there and it's just gonna really fuck some shit up. It's his minor houses thing and suddenly this minor house or minor character is just gonna make life much harder. You've got, you've already had that ward, whoever the ward is, who I think the main theory is it's all of our fray has already turned away for least Stoke worth and said she can't stay. Some people think that it might be similar to when Rainier had to leave King's Landing. And, and she tried to get safety at how at Rosby and they wouldn't let her come in.

She tries at Stoke worth and she is like allowed for one night or something and then she has to leave and I wonder if, and it's not just my theory, I've seen it in other places, so credit to those places, but like is Cersei gonna have to do a similar fleeing King's Landing because of Aegon or Daenerys and be turned away as well because whoever is in that house is gonna maybe cause her downfall and I can't wait. Interesting and I do think like it won't be settled until a dream of spring I feel like it's going to be a post-war situation that it'll be settled at the very end of the story like because it's very symbolic right of all these little

unsettled issues or like post-war and dance right the Riverlands and all the widows and having to resettle the Riverlands and having to resettle the gift in the north and all these kind of ideas hanging out there. Yeah. Well maybe Oliver Frey will become the king. Maybe this is the twist. Wow! Oh my god finally. Yeah and that's how it's really important. Who has a more interesting story than Oliver Frey? Oliver does have a pretty interesting story. Yeah, actually though.

But... The small council will meet once more after Cersei's trial. They're taking a little recess until then, and they bid each other goodbye. Mace begrudgingly wishing strength to Sir Robert Strong's arms. Randall leaves with Mace, Kevin thanks Tarly's the real danger, Iron-willed and shrewd. How do I win him to my side, he thinks.

Ha ha ha, you don't, cause he probably supports Aegon. Good thought, Kevin, you're dead. When the greens depart, Pycelle comments gloomily, Lord Tyrell doesn't like him because of the whole moon tea thing with his daughter. He asks if there's any way he can get some guards at his room. Whomp whomp. Harris also wants guards, but Kevin says that would insult Mace Tyrell, and he thinks Mace probably wants to replace both of them with his own counselors.

He's already outnumbered on this council. Yeah, I love that Kevin's thinking that here, and he's like, how do I prevent this happening to me and Cersei? And I'm like, I don't know, bro, this is exactly what you did to Robert Baratheon. So that's why you know this playbook. It's literally yours. Well, your families, your brothers. Right. Pysel obviously brought up the moon tea thing with Cersei. Was he telling the truth or was he just saying shit to get Cersei to stop asking him and

doing stuff? Because he says later on, oh, I just said it because, oh, I just, you know, she was questioning me, she asked me, but like, cause it's very much the deciding factor. It is incriminating. I lean towards he wanted it, she wanted it for someone else. Like Margaery was getting it for someone else, possibly, because you can tell that he gets cut off and like, his words are almost pushed against him, used against him, just like everyone does during the initial trial, like the Tyrion trial too, right?

Like it reminds me of that, so it was like a half-ass Cersei using quote unquote, some sort of evidence, but twisting it. That's what I think. I don't know. What about you, Eliana? I think it's like the time that my friend she couldn't get some for some reason so I went and helped her buy some plan B And I think it's exactly like that. But then the pharmacist he gave me like this like really annoying knowing smile I'm like, it's not even for me. I didn't say it but like cuz I was so bad and like my friend was there with me But it's like that. You should have looked him right in the eye and been like, yeah, I fuck. That's what I would have done.

Yeah, I do. But like I had a different and I was like, I was up to date with my contraception, you know? Should the queen be asking for it though? Should the queen has, should she not have got someone else? Like I feel like the optics, the PR for her is not great. Well, but also I think it's like shows a little bit about her if it is that, that like she's willing to do that for someone because she's the queen and she has that sort of protection that I'm the queen, but obviously she doesn't because no one has protection in the society. But a new counselor's on the way, gang!

We get a new counselor coming, but by the way, Kevin hasn't told anyone, so no one knows that Lady Nim is coming to bring Myrcella home, famously a very etiquette-driven character who follows the Westerosi rules to a T. No one knows is coming. No one. It's just like Oberyn. Exactly. It's a redux of Asos. It really is of Acoq and Asos. Oh my god. I have an essay I never published about this that I've harvested a lot of stuff off of here, but yes, my sack of King's Landing to electric boogaloo essay has still not ever come out,

and will it? We don't know. We don't know. I think I've just put it in our podcast a million times instead, but it's all leading to a second sack of King's Landing and to Cersei opening the gates to who she thinks are friends because she's desperate for allies and then she has to flee because it turns out they weren't. Just like Pycelle opening the gates and Tywin being like, REC SHIT. Yeah. Amazing. I think Mace is not gonna like it though.

He will have a Dornish bastard on the council and he's gonna fucking hate that shit. The whole thing is gonna insult his delicate personality. Yeah, but I mean his daughter's married to a Lannister bastard, so. That's true. That's true. You know, I feel like don't hate the player, hate the game, Mace. And also, good thing he probably won't have to deal with it for that long, right? Until his death.

At least he'll only have to suffer a little bit in the sight of a bastard. God. But it's Dornish as well, is they hate the Dornish. Yep. Absolutely. It's interesting that no one's gonna know though, because now Kevin's dead. And I'm guessing Daemon Sand is probably gonna be that new Dornish master at arms that Cersei has been talking about He seems like the right person for it

So it's really interesting that it's like a dance wrapped within a dance a Blackfyre rebellion wrapped within bastard rulers Coming and having a place on the council I'm sure we'll have thoughts of Cersei being like who who cares that it's a bastard? And thinking like, Tommen's a bastard, they don't need to know that, but Tommen's a royal bastard, so who the fuck cares and like, justifying it? And also, it won't be unlike like, a flashback to Daeron's era, right, with the influx of accepting Dornish into the Seven Kingdoms and many of them coming to court, and then not unlike Aerys and Rhaegar, right, with their miniature almost dance going on and him having the Dornish at court for Rhaegar short-lived because of Aerys' racism towards them.

But yeah, I'm really interested in how that's gonna move forward in those dynamics. This is probably one of my most looked forward to plots and scenes in the next bit of the book. Definitely. We need wins, guys. Kevin suggests that Pysel hire some of the mountain's men, that Ronnet has no further use of them. They walk together from the throne room, and snow is swirling in the outer yard. Kevin tells his father-in-law, Harris Swift, that he must go to Braavos, and they all move

to find some sort of warmth in the yard. Yeah, and Kevin fantasises about having Littlefinger back, doesn't he, to bring some coin. He doesn't, he's like, he could have made dragons out of nothing. Haha, well, they're coming, dragons made out of nothing. But he also doesn't realise that Littlefinger is basically the reason for his whole family's fall from grace. Like, Little, he's like, oh, please give me a little finger back. And Littlefinger is instrumental in bringing the Lannisters down.

Talk about words you never thought you'd hear in a sentence, ever. We want Littlefinger back. Yeah. Bring it back. And you've said it twice. Wow. No, I'm just kidding. That's incredible.

Incredible. Yeah, that's very interesting. Kevin is like just blind to, and that's part of him, right? Like I don't think he's very good at the intrigue in court or understanding that complexity or layered bit going on, a foot underneath. But I don't think any of them see it. And it's so weird because Tyrion knew from the first moments of the whole of the Game of Thrones that Littlefinger, it's a bit of a plot hole that Littlefinger basically frames Tyrion and he never confronts

him or even says to Tywin, there's the bit when Tywin's got him back after he'd been imprisoned and he never says, oh by the way, the guy who said that it was my dagger who killed Bran Stark, that was Littlefinger. he never says, oh by the way, the guy who said that it was my dagger who killed Brandstark, that was Littlefinger. He lied about it and tried to frame me so that I would be, so I don't think we can trust that guy. That list of crimes is gonna be delicious when it comes out. It's gonna be like, you murdered this person, you did this, you did X, you did Y, you did Z, time to die, bitch. It's gonna be, I'm getting a little wet just thinking about it.

Um, we don't have to talk about that, but wow, that death is gonna be slippery. Just flicking the bean to his blood, with his blood, like a lubricant. Oh my God. So Maegor's Holdfast is surrounded by about three feet of snow, the only way in or out being the drawbridge spanning the moat with a Kingsguard posted at the end. Ooh, very Aegon III, right?

It reminds me a little bit of Aegon III there. Definitely. Yeah, with Viserys and him and Daenerys. Yes. But tonight, that Kingsguard is Meryn Trant, who's guarding them. Balen Swan is off hunting Darkstar, Loras is wounded, quote-unquote, on Dragonstone. Jaime's somewhere on the Riverlands, somewhere. So only four Kingsguard are in King's Landing.

Osmund, Kettleblack, and Osfrid, who are in the dungeon. Not Osfrid, but Osmund, obviously. Trant, Boros Blount, and Robert Strong are all there is left to protect the royal family. Yikes. Kevin makes a note he needs to replenish the Kingsguard sometime since they're all terrible and thinks maybe Lancel would make a good sword now that, you know, he could get him out of the warrior's sons, maybe? Give him a new life? I don't know. I love that he's like got this to-do list and he's like oh i should probably get some more king's guard at some point like kind of thinking he needs to buy toilet roll you know i probably

should get some more of that backburner yeah it's the same yeah um feels pretty important the downfall of the king's guard is is really pretty horrific from its very beginnings. We covered it a few episodes ago with Visenya who starts it for Aegon and it's meant to be this honourable thing and the vows were made based on the Night's Watch vows. It's meant to be the best fighters, the most loyal people and the very fact that they've got so few and they're all so shit, they're basically the worst people and there's not very many of them, like there's not very many in their shit. And I guess it shows that there's a massive vulnerability. Like reading that you should, as the reader, feel like, oh god, this is

quite vulnerable, we have only four and they're not good. This should give you goosebumps as to like, things are not all good in King's Landing in the Red Keep right now. Yeah, absolutely. I think maybe, maybe once upon a time, part of me is like thinking as we watched like, House of Dragon, I'm like, maybe it was always like shit. They were like good fighters, but maybe the whole institution was always shit, you know? And it was all lies the whole time. I am also now wondering, like, rereading this, I'm like, wait, maybe was it, was the Dornish

plan? Was it always like, that Darkstar would not kill Mursala? Because people always talk shit, they're always like, well, how good of a fighter can he be? He couldn't even kill a little girl. Maybe he was only ever supposed to injure her, but I don't know, probably not. He probably was supposed to kill her. But the whole point, like, is he in on a plan? I'm just spinning tinfoil here.

Is he in on a plan to keep Bailin' Swan there? And they're probably going to kill him at some point, but regardless, and it weakens the position of the throne as they all swoop in. And I think it's also interesting that Kevin thinks of like, you know what would really make my traumatized son happy if I put him on the Kingsguard? You know who really likes fighting? My son, Lancel, my only living son, Lancel. Ignoring the fact that Lancel has a wife. Yeah. And it's also his heir, which is absolutely not a thing Tywin would have done. Tywin was like, what do you mean you took my fucking heir and put him on the

Kingsguard? But he can't act like it's a dishonor, Tywin was like, what do you mean you took my fucking air and put him on the Kingsguard? But he can't act like it's a dishonor, but he was pretty mad. And it's the opposite, because Tywin was also like, Jamie, what if you left the Kingsguard? That sounds fun, right? You wanna leave, right?

And Jamie's like, no, this is my dream job, even though I'm not very good at it at all. I failed the whole point. Anyways, I do wonder if we'll see Janaye mentioned more as the series goes on. She's like four years old, basically at this point, like three or four, but she's probably about to be the only living heir at one point. I don't see Lancel making it to the end of the series. And I mean, but it could be a surprise.

Maybe he fucking does, but I doubt it. And also Kevin thinking, like in this moment, he's thinking of his own honor, right? Basically more than his son's happiness. And because again, Lancelot should not be a Kingsguard. Who is the Lord of Casterly Rock right now? Is it Kevin? Because it's not Jaime. Technically Cersei is Lady of the Rock. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Wait, is surely Tyrion inherits over Cersei though? I mean, I would say that Tyrion's been pretty disinherited. But that's his leverage with the sellsword company. Well yeah, but it depends on who's king. They just have to take it. They just gotta take it. And he can take it, probably, because he knows the sewer system. Yeah. He does. He does. Yeah. I mean, it really just depends on who's sitting that throne. It's all from where you're sitting.

It's all from where it's perspective on who owns it, but right now it's Cersei. What horse you back? But you look at like Storm's End, like I said, like they don't care about who owns Storm's End. That's legitimacy. care about who owns Storm's End? That's legitimacy. Storm's End is historically now Baratheon land. To hold that, a Baratheon, like Tommen Baratheon, should be holding it. That's your one claim against Stannis. You should be concerned about your keep, your dynastic keep, not being in your hands. Yeah, it's big embarrassing when you don't own your family's home castle, right? That's the problem with the Starks. It severely weakens Rob's campaign.

And yeah, I don't know. Even if Lancel's not great, he's just not qualified to be a Kingsguard in many ways. I know that the Lannisters, a lot of them have killed a king and helped kill one, but you know, Lancel and Robert with the strong wine, Jaime of course, it's just like their family tradition. So I don't know, maybe he should fucking be on there. I don't know. But I think there's a failure there and also understanding that there's more honor in the warrior sons for Lancel than there is as a Kingsguard for Lancel because Lancel is clearly very tired and disillusioned of upholding the family regime, right? Or protecting the crown and like serving the crown is what led to him feeling all these

feelings of dishonor and shame right now. And I'm kind of like wondering, like... Servicing the crown. Yeah. I also think this is kind of a big oversight in this POV that like, we don't see Kevin think at all about Willem or Martin and he doesn't have to, he doesn't have to think of it them. But I do think like, you're a dad, and you're thinking about kids dying, right? You're thinking about little baby Rainies and little baby Egan, right? And he doesn't think about, wow, my sons were really

young and they were killed unjustly, even though they were supposed to be protected. I think that that's something that you should see in terms of like a parent's grief. It has been a few years but I do think it's one of those things that would be like an ever-present absence for you. But also like maybe it's just not there because I don't know maybe it's another thing where he's like I've squished down my feelings about losing my sons, big sad. I don't know. Mm, probably. He's not like, oh I'm dying, I'm gonna go join my sons now. No. Nothing. Nothing.

I don't want to say that maybe George has made a bit of an oversight there, but potentially he has. To not mention it. Little boys. So, in the solar, Kevin asks for mulled wine and thaws out by the fire. Aww, sounds so cosy. Is this, this is the cosy murder, right? Yeah. The cosy mystery. He's living his best autumn life or fall life.

Oh my god, exactly. He's having a pumpkin spice latte. Yes, PS on Kevin chapter. Yeah. Oh, he's like, what the fuck is going on? Kevin decides, oh, just one glass of wine will do because he's got a lot to do. As you said, Steph, he's got a lot on his to-do list. He reports.

He's got reports to read, letters to write. He's going to eat dinner with Circe and Tommen. And then Circe, he thinks has been subdued since her walk of atonement. And she spends a third of her day with her son Another third in prayer and then the rest in her tub She's bathing four to five times a day scrubbing herself with brushes and lye soap as if she meant to scrub her skin off And that's another thing that feels very Macbeth but also very very like look look you just gave her all this trauma All this trauma. Why do you think she's doing that, Caban? Huh. STACEY- You took a perfectly not like, I mean like, you took a perfectly good person, but

she wasn't, but you still gave her all this trauma. It's very sad. It makes you really realize I think how, even though you don't see it because we don't have her chapters anymore, really much after that, like how it really hurt her. Yeah, and intentionally, right? Like seeing her from Kevin's point of view in this chapter says a lot about it. Like right there, it like shows you what George wanted you to see. It shows that Kevin, who's very like neutral, thinks that Cersei has been neutered, but she has not been neutered. Whatsoever, she's only been made angrier. You've only incited her further. And, boy, are those claws gonna come out.

VB- Hair grows back. Claws also- VB- Yup. They do. VB- Do claws come back? VB- Okay. VB- I mean, well, if you've pulled them out, no, maybe not, but, you know, if you have trimmed them, which is really all he did, he did not pull them out. He trimmed them. Yeah, that's true. He only trimmed them. I'm not a veterinarian. I don't know how this works. My god.

We have a passage from Kevin about his niece that is totally normal, and he thinks... ... She will never wash the stain away, no matter how hard she scrubs. Sir Kevin remembered the girl she once had been, so full of life and mischief, and when she'd flowered. Ah, had there ever been a maid so sweet to look upon. If Aerys had agreed to marry her to Rhaegar, how many deaths might have been avoided. Cersei could have given the prince the sons he wanted, lions with purple eyes and silver manes, and with such a wife, Rhaegar might

never have looked twice at Lyanna Stark. The Northern Girl had a wild beauty, as he recalled, though however bright a torch might burn, it could never match the rising sun. But it did no good to brood on lost battles and roads not taken. That was a vice of old Dunmen. Rhaegar had wed Elia of Dorne, Lyanna Stark had died, Robert Baratheon had taken Cersei to bride, and here they were. Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Interesting. Full of life and mischief. That is also how I describe Circe killing her friend. Mischief.

Makes you realize that little bit just how maybe incest is kind of in the family. Like it's genetic. Oh absolutely. The ownership over the nieces and the daughters and the sisters, the ownership over their bodies and the right to their body before they have the right to their body. Yeah. It's a little bit like um Trump like saying his daughter is really hot. It's that kind of like. It's very weird. Oh yeah. This is very weird. I don't know if he's right though like if Cersei had married Rhaegar, I still think Rhaegar would have gone off, tried to have prophecy babies. Oh yeah.

For sure. It's also funny because it's like, if those kids superseded, the seed is strong kids, right? And like, these kids are blonde with green eyes. No, I feel like she might, and this might be Crusader King's 3, a Game of Thrones coming through, but I feel like even if she married Rhaegar, she might have given him three blonde little shits with green eyes. Do you think they still would have been Jaime's then? Probably. I don't know, I don't- I just see this world where maybe she in her head

is all, if Rhaegar had loved me, it would have fixed everything. It could have fixed me, but I don't know that it would have. I don't think it would have. I think I would have. I mean, first of all, this is what we're learning from Littlefinger's story, but also maybe, seriously, I don't know, a bunch of people, George loves writing about it. Another person is not going to fix you. They're not going to fucking save you. You got to fix you, girl.

You got to fix you. And then like that whole idea of like idolizing someone in their head and putting this whole idea of them like Cersei wants people to be whatever she thinks they are in their head, in her head, right? Like Jamie is an extension of her, her kids is an extension of her, and so forth. But Rhaegar is not. Rhaegar was going to be whoever Rhaegar is and she didn't really know him. She was going to be disappointed by whatever the reality was and also-

She would have found him annoying. Oh yeah, probably. I definitely think she would have found him annoying. She would have been like, stop playing this song. Stop reading your books. Ugh, it's so annoying. For real. No, she would have been like, why is he reading books and not talking to me?

And she also, I think, maybe she would have given, I don't know if they would have been Jamie's kids or not, but like, I don't think that the Targaryen genes are dominant. So regardless, I think she would have gotten away with it better if she had had Jamie's kids and they weren't Rhaegars. I think she would have gotten away with it better than if with the Baratheons, just because they're not dominant genes. But, although she got away with it quite well with the Baratheon, no one. That's true. That's true.

Until John Aaron was like, I'm done with this. I'm fucking done with this. I have been breeding dogs. He's like, I have had, I did not raise dogs just for this to happen to me. Uh, okay. Well, what does Viserys say about breeding horses then? Just kidding. We're not going into that.

I don't know. I think, I think dogs are like just a little more complicated than, you know, with plants, like whatever this is not your pundit squares just, I think a little harder with like dogs anyways. Oh, the other funny thing about having children is that, do you know the number of people who have come up to me when I've had kids, obviously when I had my babies, and they just say, oh it's so weird, they look just like you and your partner, and you're like, that's how it looks. That's how it goes.

It's sort of funny that no one's said, it's just weird about Tom and Marcella and Joffrey, is that they don't look anything like Robert at all There's not even like I can see that they've got Cersei's eyes, but Robert's like forehead or mouth or You know the things that Lost for life Yeah, just anything. It's it's Sansa who's eventually like, well Joffrey's nothing like his dad. But no, but like everyone always says it's so dumb, but it's like, oh wow,

your kids just look just like you and your partner and you're like, yes, it is literally, this is how it's us mushing. We did it. We rolled cells together and made a 50-50 thing. I think that three kids, with three kids at least least one of them is gonna come out looking like Robert. I think I just don't think it's that weird because I- Chloe, you've seen photos of me and my mom. I look exactly only like my mom. Yeah, there's probably like a little bit of my dad in there, but like you have to really be looking cool. So I am too, yeah. I've seen my biological father. You did not- you did not- oh, okay.

No, I'm saying like I don't look like my biological father that much at all. Like if I look at him, he does not look like me. I've seen pictures and I'm like- You didn't get your mom's height. That's all I know. But what's weird is I didn't get his height either because he's 5'8". Oh, interesting. His sisters, but here you go. He has sisters that are fucking Tarthian. They're 6'1". My mom told me once because I was like, why am I not tall? Like, why am I tall? It doesn't fucking make sense. Like, I've done the math. She's like, well well he had some sisters that were like six one six two I'm

like oh that's like my my two boys massive they were born massive they're so tall and I am not a tall person I'm five foot six I'm not that tall my partner not that tall it's not that tall though. Like my kids are massive. But do you know, but like as in, yeah, but like it's, my kids are massive. They're really big. Like my, my nine year old is in like 12 to 13 year old clothing. Wow. Wow. Yeah. And, but I, my, on my dad's side, his sister is tall and her daughters are really tall and their sons are really tall so I think there's like some weird recessive in there that you just suddenly get like a really tall children but that's why it's just sort of funny to me that everyone in Westeros must

have family and they must have spent time with people enough to be like, oh yeah, I know you look like your mother, but you've got your dad's like, I don't know, temperament or your musical like this person or something. And, and I mean, and even Cersei accidentally, like they're always putting Joffrey in fucking only Lannister clothing all the time as well. Like just, they don't even bother a lot of the time to put anything Baratheony on him. He wears red and gold. The lion sigil is there. It's so like guys, can't you see what is literally in front of your face? Yeah.

Please, please. It's where? It's everywhere. Yeah. Please. Please. It's where? It's everywhere. Yeah. Yeah. Well, Kevin's just like, that ain't my fault. I don't feel guilty about Circe's predicament. And he's like, my big brother would have understood that. Like everything that I did, I did for House Lannister. He's like, my brother would like had always done the same, like when their father had taken his bed warmer showering her with honors and gifts and allowing her to chime in on matters of state and He so influential had like that bed warmer, I guess

Been like the the daughter of the candle maker, which I think is an interesting forgot that profession Um, she became so influential in Lannisport that they joke that any man who wished to be heard had to kneel before her and speak into her lap. That's where Tytos' ear was, between her legs. I'm glad that he knows how to give the Lord's kiss. No he doesn't. His ear shouldn't be there. Continue.

No that's true. What is he doing? Trying to hear the fucking ocean? No no no, the ears are in the lap. They're in between, they're squeezed between her thighs. That's how it's working. And he's just got it anyway. Both of them got it.

I see it now. Thank you for the thing you did. I found this in a shop. Yup. That is a pussy. I mean, a conch shell. It's a conch shell. If you can't see it's a little, it's a squishy one.

It's like a little toy. A cooch shell. Like, oh, a little coochie. A cooch shell! That's, he was listening to the ocean with that. Oh my god. Tytos was trying to hear the ocean from her legs and he did not hear the ocean. She had worn their mother's jewels. It was wet on it.

She definitely had overstepped a bit. She was wearing their mother's jewels, however Tytos seemed to have given them to him, and Tywin had her stripped and paraded through Lannisport to the docks. That had been the end of her power. We have Kevin thinking, Surely Tywin would never have dreamed that the same fate awaited his own golden daughter. It had to be, Kevin muttered over the last of his wine. His high holiness had to be appeased.

Tommen needed the faith behind him in the battles to come, and Cersei, the golden child, had grown into a vain, foolish, greedy woman. Left to rule, she would have ruined Tommen as she had Joffrey. Outside the wind was rising, clawing at the shutters of his chamber. Ser Kevin pushed himself to his feet. Time to face the Lioness in her den. We have pulled her claws, Jaime though, but no, he would not brood on that." Right, but he doesn't know they didn't pull it, it's only a trim. I'm not a veterinarian.

Boros Splound attends the boy king and his mother, and he does not look great lately. He is heavier and his skin tone is pretty grey. He is leaning against the wall. Uh oh. Uh oh. Is he being poisoned? Oh yeah, there's no way. But how is he being poisoned? He's eating all the King's food, but I don't believe that he's eating enough that that's what's making him heavier. So where's the poison? What's going on? There's something what's happening someone solve this why is he? Someone's poisoning him someone is poisoning him directly that when it's gonna die

Who is poisoning him? Well who has skill with poison in this court probably kyburn probably varus or kyburn. Let's be real It's probably one of them. I'm just gonna point at them. Whatever something goes wrong from now on I reckon it's Varus Yeah, I don't think kyburn cares enough. Yeah that's true. Oh my god he has celiac disease. That's what's happening. Oh my god he has IBS! It's gluten. Yes, just really bad IBS. I know how bad that can be. That's life. It's horrible. Yeah.

I'm gonna tell me a girly. The meal is served by three well-scribed and young novices, innocent and pious. The High Septon insisted no girls spend more than seven days in the Queen's presence. They tended the Queen's wardrobe, baths, wine, and even shared her bed every night to make sure she had no other company. When he enters, Cersei kisses him on the cheek. She invites him to sit, offers him wine, and they chat. Lord Tyrell wishes to rebuild the Hand's Tower, she notes, and they joke about him overcompensating

in the build together. She made a little joke. How lovely. So patronising, Kevin. Yeah, right? God. You made a little joke there, Cersei. It's so nice that she can still joke, you know.

She must be doing great, because she made a joke after I made her walk through the streets naked God. She also burned that tower down. Yeah He asks Cersei if she has everything she needs and she's like I'm content with the girls and the septas But I would like to see sweet Tiana again And her young son could come be friends with Tommen and Kevin's like that's totally reasonable. I can foster the Merryweather boy That's perfect and you guys can go back to Casterly Rock, you girls, and just be good roommates together. Mm-hmm. He's like, I'm not actually bringing my kid. Fuck that.

Yeah, right? I do like that he immediately says, he's like, oh perfect, and I can send her to the rock. And she still, she doesn't know that. She thinks she'll be there. Well, she will be there. Because they're similar. Yeah. Kevin and Cersei, they got their plans. Yeah, they have their plans and plans and plans. He promises to send for her after her trial, and they have supper, beef and barley soup, mm.

Quail and roast pike, turnips, mushrooms, bread and butter. Tommen seems happy and sweet and chattering about his kittens and telling them about the bad cat coming to the window again, but that sir pounce scared him away. An old black tom cat with a torn ear, Balyrian, but of course he's known to attack ravens. Kevin promises to have a trap set for that cat. And Cersei says the cats, I know the cats are for the rats. And I like that is a tiny wee nod that because it is Otto Hightower who got all of the cats in for the rats. After blood and cheese, all of the rat catches were sacked after that.

And I feel like it's a little kind of nod to, and a reference to basically that there's gonna be treachery in the walls of the castle. Like it's just a little, like the cats are here for the rats. Why were they here? Oh, because somebody betrayed, got into the castle and murdered someone. And that is what's going to happen in this chapter. And boy, doesn't Cersei have two more kids to kill off here for us in the story. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Damn. We love killing kids. Wait. Ah, here it goes. Hey, Marie Lorch does.

Hey, Marie Lorch does. Kevin has never seen Cersei so demure, so mindful, and it's good maybe, but also makes him sad. He decides to bring up Jaime because he loves chaos, and Cersei's like, have you heard anything about Jaime's whereabouts? But he hasn't. She cuts him off and says, if he were dead, she'd know it. And she says, we came into this world together, uncle, he would not go without me. And I'm sorry, but like,

George has to put out a book soon because I think I ship Jamie and Cersei now. Like, it's been that long that I think I've come all the way around and I think I'm a twincess shipper. Discuss. Interesting. Interesting. We have a whole POV to discuss this, but interesting. Yeah. I'm starting off strong, you know? It's very popular because we'll have a couple of guests who are Jamie Cersei shippers as well, just to tantalize. Tantalize the senses.

Oh yeah. Sure. Twin-cest ASMR coming to your ears soon. Oh my God. Ooh. We're coming. We're not doing ASMR. Um,

Every day I do ASMR. Cersei asks Kevin if he means to bring his wife to court. He thinks on no, Dorna is a gentle soul. She just likes to stay home with her kin. She prays seven times a day and loves needlework and flowers. In King's Landing, she would not be happy. Kind of like, ew about that. But I feel ew because Dorna was his prisoner, basically, when they first met. That's a very weird dynamic, power dynamic there.

I'm not into it. It reflects a lot on how he sees Cersei, right? Like that he wants to put her back at the Westerlands and keep her safe and that she should just be a girl doing just a girl things and like, it feels like a barb, right? That Cersei's like, how's your wife? Are you bringing her to King's Landing? Interesting you won't bring her here because it seems like, you know, she had a pretty

traumatic life being basically sold to the Lannisters because her dad couldn't pay his rent. So when you think about it that way, like, and that time was a very traumatic time where there was war in the Westerlands and war between these smaller houses breaking out and the revolt. She's had enough trauma and war for her life already, right? Like Dorna doesn't need to come to King's Landing and deal with more of the snakes and the people that are venomous to them, and he's protecting her in a way, but also like says a lot about Kevin and how he treats women.

For sure. Cersei responds that a good woman knows her place, and she warns him the Kettleblacks won't stand for their brothers dying. Kevin says that's why he's had them arrested, and reminds her that she's the one that confessed to fucking them. They'll go to the Wall if they admit their guilt, or they'll face Ser Robert. Such men should never have been raised so high," he says. Meekly Cersei responds, she may have misjudged them and Kevin says, you misjudged a good

many men it seems. Woah! Ouch. Woah! Shade. Shade. Oh damn. It reminds me of that line in Aria in Clash or Storm when she's talking about Pita, or

Pia, and she's like, Pia was Pita, Pita from the Hunger Games. She's talking about Pia and how Pia was always seeing ghosts in the buttery quote unquote, that total like, just total shady line. Like Pia was always seeing things in the buttery, mostly men. It reminds me a lot of that. Slut shaming. Yeah, a little bit. Kevin style.

Kevin and Arya style. Well, I also think it's just kind of ironic as well because I'm like, I don't know, Kevin, it sounds to me like you've mistrusted a good many men too. Like, I don't know, your brother Tywin also trusting yourself apparently was a mistake. All these other people in the council you've been with, I think you are mistrusting these people as well, or you're misjudging them as well. And then also, I mean, everyone's trusting Varies, and you know what?

They shouldn't. You're gonna die. Not a fun. No, not a fun. Anyway, the novice who's attending their dinner interrupts, telling Kevin that there's a boy below, sending word from Maester Pycelle to come urgently. And Kevin takes a knee and kisses his niece's hand and goes below, giving the eight or nine year old messenger boy a penny and heading toward the rookery through the ice-coated castle.

You know, he kisses her hand and he says says I wonder if this will be her last kiss ever. Like that makes me think it's her trial tomorrow because surely her son Tommen might kiss her or something. Why is he saying this might be the last one? I don't get it. Unless the trial is literally the next day. Projection. I felt that way. Or is he just like bigging himself up like I must be her last kiss. Maybe I think that way about um... Or is he just like, bigging himself up like, I must be her last kiss. Maybe, I think that, cause I think he feels almost like he won a battle in a way in this. Like he did everything just right and everything's perfect now and now they can start healing. Nature can heal, but it can't because chaos is gonna happen.

But I feel like it must be within the few like next days within the week, right? Because after the council they break apart and he's like, we'll convene post trial. And in my head, I was like, why are you guys really don't meet every- like, this is how you spend King's Landing and the whole entire nation's tax money? Like, you work once a fucking week? You guys fucking work once a week? You fucking pieces of shit. Yes. Politician ass motherfuckers. They live the life of CEOs and yeah, basically. Like just once a week. Okay. There should be a standing meeting daily about the fate of our nation. Like what the fuck? Yeah, probably.

Yeah. Arseholes. All the children that show him to the Rookery are silent. And if you're an eagle-eyed reader, then this should get your spidey senses tingling, because only Varys's little birds are children who cannot speak because he has cut their tongues out. He thinks it's kind of sweet and he's like, oh, look at this quiet little child. Demure and mindful. Demure and mindful. Exactly. We are kind of that actually though.

Cersei is so bright though. You know, she's having a good time. Oh she is! Yeah. She throws very great. Wildfire bright summer. Yeah. And world. The rookery is cold and shadowy, and there's a raven loitering in the window seat.

It's bigger than any hawk he's ever seen, larger than an owl, and he realizes it's white. It's a bird from the Citadel. Hailing the change of seasons, he says, Winter, out loud, turning into white mist from his mouth into the air. And then the bird hits him with his wings as he takes flight, and suddenly, a quarrel has sunk into his chest. What? Oh my god.

I can't believe the bird hit him on its way out. I love that language because it almost feels like he thinks the bird has hit him and maybe the bird really didn't. Like, he hit him with his wings a little, but it's like I think he thinks that the bird was attacking him for a moment or like hitting at him too, but it was really just his wings unfolding as the quarrel hit him. Yeah, for sure. We have this little passage here of his internal and external thoughts as he's struck with the quarrel. No, no, that was how my brother died. Blood was seeping out around the shaft. Pysel! he muttered, confused.

Help me, I… Then he saw Grand Maester Pysel was seated at the table, his head pillowed on the great leather-bound tome before him. Sleeping, Kevin thought, until he blinked and saw the deep red gash in the old man's spotted skull and the blood pooled beneath his head, staining the pages of his book. All around his candle were bits of bone and brain, islands in a lake of melted wax. He wanted guards, Sir Kevin thought. I should have sent him guards.

Could Cersei have been right all along? Was this his nephew's work? I don't know, a couple of these kind of make me sad that no, that was how my brother died. Being like, that can't be… that can't be me. And it's like, yeah, because we're putting it on Tyrion. Haha. Haha. That's why it's a quarrel.

And also, I don't know, that also really made me sad of being like, he wanted guards, I should have sent him guards thinking about Pycelle. I don't know. He's a little silly, but like, big sad. He may be a goofball, but like Pycelle's our goofball. He really is though. He really is our goofball as Lannisters. I have to like, also praise, I love that bit, that all around his candle were bits of bone and brain.

First of all, that's so great, bits of bone and brain. Those consonants are so fun. And then islands in a lake of melted wax. Oh my god, George, you did it again. Like, incredible. Yeah. It's sad. My soul's just like, it's just there. Well, for obvious reasons, Kevin tries to call for Tyrion, because it does feel very Tyrion-ish to him, but a half-familiar voice responds instead. It's Verys. Verys apologizes, first of all, saying that it was for the realm, for the children. And Kevin thinks of his own wife, his own children, and opens his eyes. So I don't know, maybe he thought of Martin and Willam there. Who fucking knows?

Mm, he probably did. And Varys says it's for the children, and it's Varys who mutilates children as well. Yeah, not those children. Those are poor kids. No one cares about them. Gotta break a few eggs to make an egg on omelette, you know what I mean? Actually, for real, you might think that. It was for the realm for the children, like that is just like, what? Won't someone think of the children? It looks like you already did.

Yeah. Yeah. What is he talking about? Was it for the kids? They, they just wanted their little five minute hate, you know, like in 1984, the kids just really wanted to kill someone. It was for them. No, I'm joking.

That's not at all what it was for. I just wonder what Barris is fucking talking about. Cause he says that to Ned as well. Like, oh, I'm working for the realm And I understand what he means that but when he adds here and also for the children What the hell is he talking about which children whose children? I do kind of think it's a little like Chloe said like with the you got to break a few eggs It's kind of like Stanis being like, I don't know

Sacrifices must be made when you say break a few eggs, I immediately was thinking about how, like, egg, as in egg on, was literally broken. Yeah, smashed to pieces. Yeah, exactly. Literally, yeah. Break a few eggs. So it means a better regime. Is he saying it's for them? Maybe he's talking about them, but I think it's more, I don't know, because I really do, and we're probably gonna chat this in a minute,

but like I really do think that it's Illyrio and Sarah's kid. Like, and they are probably Blackfyres, because you have that same reveal, right, as we go through it of like, the male line died in the last Blackfyre rebellion, and it goes back toy's even, right, to our Rainy's truthers in the chat today, like, from his blood. Blackfyres are still Targaryen blood. Female Blackfyres are still Targaryen bloodline, like, you can't just prune that off, it's still there. I don't know. So maybe he's involved in that somehow, or they just were the only ones that gave Varys a young kid a shot. And he's real loyal to them, I don't know.

Yeah, I mean, I guess he's like, I don't know, I was mutilated as a kid, so this is just what the price is. Yeah. Yeah, that's a good call. He's mutinated. Well, I had to pay student loans, so these other kids gotta pay student loans, and by that I mean I would have cut out their tongues. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kevin says that there are hundreds of guardsmen in the castle, and Varys points out, and yet none of them are here. Lol. He tells him there are many good men in service to bad causes, but Kevin was far too competent at this job, undoing the Queen's good work, uniting the realm beneath Tommen." Aw, you were just too effective. I love this detail of how you know something's off. At first you're just like, oh, it's just because it's winter, but Kevin thinks that it's actually usually too warm down here in Pycelle's chambers, but it's not tonight. And I do like the fun little

detail that the reason why it's so cold is it, various thought it smelled too bad because when Pysel died, because it turns out dead men do shit, um, it smelled too bad. So he's like, I got to open up the windows while I'm waiting for, while I'm waiting for Kevin. Maybe that's why he, cause I'm surprised that he didn't wait until after dinner to send for Kevin. Maybe that's why, maybe he like sent the message right away. He's like, I can't stay down here with this shit that much longer.

Can someone fanfic this? Um, the sceneys has killed Pycelle. How long was he sitting waiting for Kevin in the shitty shit room of shit? Was he like oh I've got to wait for a bit because I've got to let him chat with Cersei I can't make it seem too obvious. You can't call for him straight away. So I'll give it a couple of hours. And was he just, what was he doing? What was he thinking about? What did he get up to in the shipping? And Varys hasn't been seen in a minute, right? So like, it was confusing. And I love that. Like it was the ultimate confusion. And how sad is it that like, finally someone told

Kevin he did a good job. It was the person that was killing him, but finally someone said, hey, you were competent. Hey, you're doing a better job. You're maybe even doing a better job than your brother would have done. Like, for the first time he's received a piece of validation and it is as he dies. You're gonna die proud, as he said. Like, that's not what he wanted. He would have rather lived in shame, to be honest, apparently, allegedly. So, well, let's get into it. Let's get it. Let's end the books. Let's end the books.

This is such a crazy passage. We have to do the whole thing. Sir Kevin tried to rise, but the strength that left him, he could not feel his legs. I thought the crossbow fitting. You shared so much with Lord Tywin. Why not that? Your niece will think the Tyrells had you murdered, mayhaps with the connivance of the Im. The Tyrells will suspect her. Someone, somewhere will find a way to blame the Dornishmen. Doubt, division and mistrust will eat the very ground beneath your boy-king, whilst Aegon raises his banner above Storm's End, and the lords of the realm gather around him. Aegon? For a moment, he did not understand. Then he remembered, a babe,

swaddled in a crimson cloak, the cloth stained with his blood and brains. Dad, he's dead! No. The Yenik's voice seemed deeper. He is here. Aegon has been shaped for rule since before he could walk. He has been trained in arms as befits a knight to be.

But that was not the end of his education. He reads and writes. he speaks several tongues, he has studied history and law and poetry. A sceptre has instructed him in the mysteries of the faith since he was old enough to understand them. He has lived with fisher folk, worked with his hands, swum in rivers and mended nets and learned to wash his own clothes at need. He can fish and cook and bind up a wound. He knows what it is like to be hungry, to be hunted, to be afraid.

Tommen has been taught that kingship is his right. Egon knows that kingship is his duty. That a king must put his people first and live and rule for them. Kevin Lannister tried to cry out to his guards, his wife, his brother. But the words would not come. Blood dribbled from his mouth. He shuddered violently. I am sorry. Fairies wrung his hands.

You are suffering, I know. Yet here I stand going on like some silly old woman. Time to make a note of it. The eunuch pursed his lips and gave a little whistle. Sir Kevin was cold as ice and every labored breath sent a fresh stab of pain through him. Beglem's movement heard the soft scuffling sound of slippery fruit on stone. A child emerged from a pool of darkness. A pale boy in a ragged robe, no more than nine or ten.

Another rose up behind the Grand Maester's chair. The girl who had opened the door for him was there as well. They were all around him, half a dozen of them, white-faced children with dark eyes, boys and girls together, and in their hands, the daggers. Oh, oh, oh, oh. Ah.

Thank you, Thank you. I love how both of these chapters end with either you or me going, I like to be able to do our own sound effects. You know, I don't want to source freeware. I feel like it's better to just really, you know, do your own gasping, shuddering death breath. Wow. Do you need some water after that?

Yeah, I really do. That was a beautiful villain speech. Wow. And I don't know if you get away with it because of the whole like accent thing or what, but maybe it's easy. I was thinking that. I was wondering, but I wasn't trying to be racist against the British. We do sound automatically like we're villains.

It's definitely amazing. You make it great. It's a natural advantage, to be honest. It's my dream to be a villain in some form one day. I really would love to sit with my cat in my lap just like, and you thought I wouldn't get away with it, but I did. Well, export that shit to your reel because you just did that shit. That was amazing.

Um, in my opinion, I was very taken. It was very hard to shudder in the background because I knew you were killing me. Everyone should wish to be killed by you. That was great. I want to die again. Amazing. Yeah, I'll do it again. I was like, that was really good.

We should get you for all our villain speeches. Yeah, we'll call you. You can do that. They can definitely do that. Well, I love the ending because it's so pivotal, A, that we've come this far to the end of A Dance with Dragons once more, to end A Dance with Dragons, and you have that great language that's very much echoed in the Catalan death, in Jon Snow's death, right? In their hand, thegers. Make an end, and a hand grabbed her scalp. No, don't cut my hair. Ned loves my hair. Then the steel was at her throat. It's bite, red, and cold.

Or John's death. The third dagger took him between the shoulder blades. He gave a grunt and fell face first into the snow. He never felt the fourth knife. Only the cold. Or Merit's death. up and up and up. Right? All these great just moments in the cold where these characters have been killed. Yeah, it's a really great choice to use the use temperature to intimate the idea of Kevin's dying and honestly like I kind of think, is it really just there for what you said and because of the vibes of danger? Because what are the

daggers actually here for? I am wondering, because if the whole point, as Varys explains, is that we're using a quarrel to evoke the idea that it could be Tyrion or the Tyrells, right? I do too many stabs, too many stab marks, ruin the illusion of the corpse being like that, right? Like I do too many stabs, too many stab marks ruin the illusion of the corpse being like that, right? Especially because then they'll be like, oh, there were a lot of people. I don't know. It also like evokes that I was just here to be like communicating the idea of a backstab aka treachery and deceit, which is a case for Katelyn and John because I'm like, did the kiddos actually stab Kevin or not? What do y'all think? Yeah. Really? You think that they did it? Okay, because I'm just like, I thought the whole

point... I mean, I guess they must have because we're putting him out of his misery, but we can't do too many stabs or else like, doesn't it ruin the whole like... Oh, yeah. Exactly. It ruins the illusion of it just of it being Tyrion. But it also, possibly, but from a writing point of view, I think George is evoking a kind of horror thing of the children rising up and it's children and they've got like there's something so awful about the idea of children with their daggers in their hand and that what has far as done to. Get these children to do his bidding in this way you know it's the making child soldier kind of. Finds and that they're not just mutilated but are they brainwashed and the whole it's dark they kind of come out from behind the chairs these little ghostly child faces it's a bit you know like.

behind the chairs, these little ghostly child faces. It's a bit, you know, like you can imagine the horror film where you see a child pale, like a Victorian child in a window, you know, cold. Yeah. I'm so hungry, Mister, can I please have a bit of gruel? It's very evocative of real horror ghostliness. I think it's very effective. You are right that it probably will change. I don't know. I think if you were doing like a, if you were going to do a murder mystery and the detective comes in and they're like, right, so he's got a quarrel in the chest, but that's not what killed him. What killed him was the, I don't know, dozens of stab wounds.

You'd be, oh, it's just a frenzied hateful attack. I mean, true. I don't know. It doesn't track with the main killer though, you'd be all just a frenzied hateful attack. I mean, True. I, I don't know. It doesn't track with the main killer though, you're correct. Like it doesn't track. Yeah. And he's evolved. If we're fighting someone, yeah. But I mean, but I like what you said, it could seem like a frenzy.

Unless Tyrion, if it was Tyrion wasn't alone. Maybe Tyrion had a group of people. He's doing it with someone. Ooh, ooh, yeah. Yeah, cause like it could be Tyrion with the frenzy. People who would shout half man, half man. Yeah. As they were doing it with someone. Yeah, because like it could be Tyrion with the frenzy. People who would shout half man, half man. Yeah, because they were doing it half man. Because they were being all frenzied. Like, you know, you're talking about kids killing with daggers and I mean, Arya does

it right? She stabs that one guy a bazillion times. But the Dornish, if we're trying to pin it on like, it could be the Dornish, it could be the Tyrells, whatever. It doesn't, none of them would have that sense of passion behind killing Kevin. The Dornish have never even met this man, not really. I don't know, it's not even passion though. I wouldn't say it comes across as passion, I'd say it comes across as blundering. Children stabbing in that way wouldn't make it look like a skillful assassination. That's what

the Dornish would do. The Dornish would do, you know, a poisoning or just a beautifully executed assassination. But to, and that maybe the quarrel could have been that, but to add the stabbings to it, definitely it might throw off, it would certainly confuse a person, anyone investigating as to why. And if it's Mace Tyrell investigating, which it probably will be, he'll be like, it's some awful monstrous human, probably a Tyrrhenian, you know, he's shot them with the quarrel like he did to his father, and then that wasn't even enough, he's stabbed him a thousand times because he's a horrible, hateful monkey demon person. Intrudely bashed Pycelle on the... because Tyrian's not capable... anyways, it doesn't make sense. I don't think Vary's really gone through this set. But it's gonna keep them confused, which is the important part. The castle will erupt

into chaos that somehow the man that's fucking in control is not in control. And bringing Mace Tyrell into it, that means Mace Tyrell kind of starts T-Wow in a Ned Stark kind of role, like full circle, Hand of the King investigating. Oh my god, I want that. I think I want that POV. I didn't know I wanted that till just now. I don't think I get it, but I do want it. Now I want it. Suddenly I want that one. The people investigating it is going to be Mace and Cersei and she's paranoid and he's dumb. So they're not, it's not exactly going to be Urquid Puyro or someone intelligent or I'm trying to think of like a more up-to-date modern, who's a cop? What's a good cop show?

Anyone? I don't watch them. They're propaganda. There aren't really many right now. I was like, there was Brooklyn 99. Jake Peralta from Brooklyn 99. Like it's not gonna be somebody competent. There's no one competent in King's Landing to investigate this. Me, I'm like, I don't watch Kappa Ganda, so. Yeah, so I don't know. But as you said, as both of you were saying, like it does at least instill confusion.

Everyone's gonna be confused and that's kind of, I guess that is what Faeries is going for, like making people confused and out of that confusion, fearful of everyone around them, paranoia. And I think it does a great job of setting up how these are powerful forces for creating the conditions for him and Olyrio to gain their goals, not just here, right? I mean, the crossbow coral and all the different potential like suspects, but also like I think we're seeing that across all of Westros, like the destruction of trust and the eroding of social values in regards to like the Red Wedding, right? You lose guests, right? No one trusts each other to be able to even, you know, treat with one another or even like how it leads to a lack of mercy. You see it with Tyrion, right?

He's distrustful of everyone. Who can he trust? He thought he could trust his older brother. Turns out he was lying to him the whole time too. Lady Stoneheart being like, I don't know, I don't trust any of these phrase or I don't trust Brienne. I do not trust Brienne to have been fulfilling my wishes and be like, I don't know, we should just kill her and kill that kid too. Or Daenerys probably becoming more mistrustful of the people around her because of the prophecy she was given, Arya because she's a traumatized little girl, and I don't know how isolation breeds in their storylines and what it causes. So.

God, that's so depressing. All of Westros is doomed. Everybody's big sad right now. Is there anyone good left? Is there any good people? I think that I think you can be good. It's just like hard because you're mistrustful. Is there anyone good left? Is there any good people? I think that, I think you can be good. You're, it's just like hard because you're mistrustful. Is there anyone you can trust?

Is there any person or situation? Breann and that's it. Just Breann. But even Lady Stoneheart doesn't trust her though. The most trustworthy person. Okay, I didn't know your moral compass was Lady Stoneheart, you two. Yeah, like someone can be trustworthy, but that doesn't mean you trust them because you're too hurt.

Like, you know, you remember- But also people aren't good. Good is something people do. It's not something they aren't. True. Also true. Just saying. You can still do good things. George is about that. Yeah. And realistically, like, it brings in such that great setup for Egen in total. Like, this is what Tiwau is going to be about. Tiwau and Ados are going to have Aegon and Dany being at odds at some point, but also Aegon's invasion in general, right?

And I do really lean toward Aegon being a Blackfyre solely because what was the whole point? But other than that, other than that is like a big argument. Like why did Illyrio show Tyrion the picture of Sarah in that same chapter that he said the male line of the Blackfyres died out? I don't know. I just don't know. Look, I could pull. Yeah.

I had game, Tyrion. Like, and that statue that Illyrio has where he has like the statue of him when he was young and Sarah's hands. Yeah. But also like the statue of him when he was younger that looks exactly like Egan like hmm Interesting that you looked exactly like Egan when you were younger I think it could work if Egan's just a random nobody or a dragon seed too and being propped up as this character But I think that

overarching like glossing over the Moon of the Three Kings, glossing over dragon seeds, I think him being a nobody also does work for Jon's heritage, right? The big fake out before Jon because you thought you were getting one Aegon, but it turns out the real Aegon with the real claim to the throne is Jon Snow, not this fake pretender that's going to die and I think maybe will never know, one way or another. But realistically, I do think that he's probably a Blackfyre and bringing that next Blackfyre rebellion in to kind of have George use it as a device of storytelling around and to kind of tear the south apart.

To tear it apart not just with Danny showing up with dragons and with war, but then also loyalties, right? When you have all these loyalties divided as winter comes and the north is dealing with this harsh winter in ways that the south is not, though, to their credit, they do not have the infrastructure to deal with two inches of snow. That's why they have all the issues on the road with the horses and buggies at this time. I'm just kidding. That was a joke about people that live in the south of the US and I know you don't have infrastructure I'm sorry. I made fun of you. I think about Texas Atlanta that yeah one year all the time. I think about it all the time

I'm like, that's the reach during this baby. Like that's the reach but um, I don't know It's very interesting to see what's going to come to Westeros with all of these loyalties divided and no one on one side. There's gonna be like five different sides you could be on once more. We just did this like two books ago, three books ago. Yeah. There's a lot of treachery that has happened to bring about Aegon on the throne and he says I'm doing all I'm doing for the realm but it is so murdery, mutilaty, treacherous, deathy, like he's doing a lot of shady shit really for this particular cause, for maybe the Blackfyre cause, for maybe could just be a dragon seed, could be a nobody, like it literally could be no one. I want to know like, and will we, I hope we find out more as we go on, but has this actually been Varys's plan the whole

time? Literally since well before, like when Aerys first asked him to come to King's Landing to be his master of whisperers, was he like, right, I've got this plan? Did he and Illyrio sit down then and say this might be the perfect plan to take, you know, to bring the Blackfires or to bring your boy onto the throne? Is that when it started? There's a lot of shit that he's done for this kid and I question whether that was the plan all along like for like that's such a long game we're talking how many years many many years of this I also want to know did he want Danny and Eggon to unite was that the original plan were they gonna do that did did they know that the dragon eggs would hatch that they gave to Danny I need I need wins of winter I need, guys. I don't know what else to do with this, with my thoughts of where we're left with Varys, of like, how long have you been planning this Varys?

What have you exactly been actually planning? When did the seeds begin? Did it begin even before you came to King's Landing? Have you and Illyria been plotting when? Was it when you were mutilated? When does this go back to? I feel quite strongly- So many questions.

I have so many questions. Yeah. My brain is fucked about it. Yeah. Um, I love- this is from, what is this, 11 years ago at the very least if not more. On Reddit, indianthane95. I don't know where you are anymore. I hope you're like living a good life. I don't know if he's still, if this person's even still active on Reddit.

I guess so, kind of. Oh wow, even on a Song of Ice and Fire a year ago. Anyways, they disappeared for a while, and now they're back, I guess. IndianThay95 posted this comment that I think tracks likely very closely to what Barry's and Elyrio's plans might have been. I'm just going to read this comment a lot of original plan. The full Viserys and Adothraki Khalasar, gained through little obedient Dany's marriage to Drogo, are to cross over and pillage Westeros with the Golden Company as backup. The Golden Company and the revealed Aegon mop up. No matter what Ares's children feel about Aegon, since Viserys is a dumbass and a weakling. And Dany will probably not survive the Horselords,

and she's just a girl. Endgame. Aegon VI, rightful Targaryen heir by all laws of Westeros as the eldest trueborn son of Rhaegar wins the throne, is actually Aegon Mopatis Blackfyre, lulz. As expected, Robert calls for Dany's death, Varys and Illyrio comply, again showing their lack of care for the Targaryens. It doesn't matter, if Dany dies, Drogo's piston invades. If Dany manages to survive, Drogo's piston invades. Disaster! Drogo dies! The Colossar disbands! Wonderfully shocking news, Dibnere's has become a mother of three dragons and is in Qarth. This is a more than suitable replacement for Drogo's 40,000 warriors. Illyrio sends three ships,

Ser Barristan the Bold and of course, Strong Belwas, to bring her back to Pentos. Another surprise from Dany, the young girl has suddenly chosen to go her own route in Slaver's Bay. No matter. Think Vary's and Illyrio. We'll wait for her to turn towards Volantis and young Griff and company there to meet up with Dany, her dragons, and her large army slash following. Daenerys Stormborn is now the most formidable power in her own right. Her hand in marriage is necessary for Aegon to take the throne. God damn it. Dany is continuing to linger in Meereen, trying to learn how to be a good queen. Well, no point rewing on roads not taken. Send young Gryffin his entourage to Slaver's Bay. For fuck's

sake, the Gryphs and the Golden Company have grown frustrated and impatient. Fuck the dragons, bring me elephants. And so the Golden Company has landed in the stormlands to take the throne. Alone, against orders, ten thousand men only scattered across the region, potential failure looms. We must go on paddling! Vary sees that Cersei's disastrous reign as regent has terribly weakened Tommen's backing and support. The alliances that prop up her children's hold on the throne are collapsing, mayhaps

her paranoia and insanity can continue to be used to help Aegon gather his strength and push for King's Landing. But first, the obstacles to Searcy's chaotic ruling must be removed, and so Kevin gets himself in a quarrel and Paracel takes a nasty backstab." So, I think I for a long time kind of held with like this this proposal from Indian Thane of what the original plan might have been like I don't think Illyrio as as Jorah tells Danny, Illyrio thought those eggs were gonna hatch he would have sat in them himself Yeah, Agen would be sitting on them every day if he had thought they were gonna hatch Like Agen would be nesting

I think it's so- Sitting on them while learning to fish The biggest like most important thing is that it was Dani. It's always been Dani. Dani has always been the thing that changed the plan. We best changed the plan because Dani changed the plan. Dani hatched dragons and brought this magic into the world again. Dani chose different choices to rule as a queen elsewhere to make the world better.

Like every little thing Dani does is why they're where they are right now. And I love that she is like, I love that they just thought she was going to go along with everything and be their easy Targaryen daughter married off, especially considering that's what they do, the whole story to Targaryen daughters. They marry them off so they don't make fucking mischief

to their sibling, even if they're the elder, so that no worries about rights, because you guys are married and it makes it work. Like, I just think it's so fascinating and perfect that Daenerys is the one component of this that has gone wrong and that she has taken her own destiny and fate into her hands, and I think that's awesome. Kick ass in that ass. Yes, Daenerys. Yes, that is our queen. Call me a monarchist, baby.

I'm like, I'm just kidding. I'm not. I don't believe in the government. No, me neither, but I am for her. I would die for her, basically. Yeah, well, worried about that, but we'll come back to that later. I'll tell my therapist, it's fine. Steph, thank you so much for joining us for this I'll tell them my therapist, it's fine.

Steph thank you so much for joining us for this monster chapter. Oh my god, thank you. Thank you for having me. RIP in pieces, Kevan. Steph, can you tell everyone one last time where to find you online? We're on the tweets, the tweeters at Kissed Podcast. I'm there too at Steph Lyoness. I don't tweet very much, but you can go and have a look at my back catalog of tweets if

you really want to. I don't tweet very much but you can go and have a look at my back catalog of tweets if you really want to. I don't tweet very much anymore either. Yeah but we're there, Beth and I there, Beth's on there more than I am I think. Yes, yes. And if you want to go look us up on Blue Sky you can but there's nothing there so have fun with that. It's a chart tweeting at them, telling them or blue sky-ing, skeeting, whatever it's called. Get them in there. Get them in there. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Beautiful.

And thank you all for listening. We are so excited to be back in action on A Song of Ice and Fire. We will be back with our next episode with Cersei One in A Feast for Crows. Very excited about that. Cersei! Aliana, where can they reach out to us at? Yeah, so you can reach out to us on Twitter at twitter.com slash girls gone canon. That's C-A-N-O-N. Or perhaps you have thoughts that you would like to send us. You can send them in an

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Come by, join the community. It's a lot of fun and you won't regret it. Thank you so much again, Steph, for coming on. We'll be back next week. I have been one of your hosts, Chloe. And I have been another one of your hosts, Eliana. And yes, thank you, Steph. Thank you. Lioness for the lions. We are.

How are the lions doing right now, Chloe? How are the Detroit lions doing? Oh, we won, motherfucker, last week. It was awesome. Go lions. It's lion season, baby. It's lion season. That's why we're doing Cersei now. Bye. Not for Kevin. I have no idea what you're talking about, but I'm really- it's football. It's football.

Our football. American football. American football. American football, which I finally learned kind of how it works. Goodbye. Goodbye. Bye everybody.