Girls Gone Canon Cast - ASOIAF Episode 28 - ACOK Sansa Stark VIII

Episode Date: November 23, 2018

Sansa thinks she's found new freedom in King's Landing, as the roses descend upon the city. intro by Anton Langhage   Eliana's twitter: https://twitter.com/arhythmetric Eliana's reddit account: https://www.reddit.com/user/glass_table_girl Eliana's blog: https://themanyfacedblog.wordpress.com/  Chloe's twitter: https://twitter.com/liesandarbor

Hello and welcome to Girls Gone Canon, episode 28, Sansa 8 in a Clash of Kings. I am one of your hosts, Chloe. You can find me on the internet as at Liza and Arbor on Twitter and of course on Tumblr. And I'm another one of your hosts, Eliana, and you can find me on the Song of Ice and Fire subreddit as GlastableGirl and on the Maester Monthly Podcast and as Arithmetric on Twitter. Hey! New book, new us! New girls! That's not Chloe!

New book, new me! Who are you even? I'm not Eliana! If you guys are tuned into any of our social media, you'll know that Eliana and I spent some very quality time this weekend with each other. Well, this week, I guess we should say with each other. I'm like weirded out this event, the fire and blood event that George did for promotion in Jersey City was on a Monday. So and with Thanksgiving, my whole world is just upside down right now. It's Tuesday, I should still be at work. It's Wednesday. Yeah,

see, exactly. Oh my god. Everything's turned around. I thought it was Sunday for five days. I'm remote today. I thought like I missed a meeting for a moment. And then turns out, no, the meeting was canceled or moved because, yeah, it's a crazy week. So I think my boss called me today and I was like, who are you? Whomst? Whomst? Yeah.

So we went to the Fire and Blood promotional event. Yeah, so we went to the Fire and Blood promotional event, the only one that George was doing at the Lowe's Theater in Jersey City, which was beautiful. Absolutely gorgeous. Golden encrusted and just amazing. And it was amazing. George was amazing. We figured we would tell you guys a little bit about who we saw and what we did while we were there. Hooked up and hung out with the Notacast guys, poor Quentin and Brandon B. Fish. They did a little

meetup, so we let them do that and just came to it and took all their spotlight at that meetup. I mean, I showed up like very late, so you did it. You stole all the light. That's true. That's what I thought. It's our meetup now. No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding.

If you're in the Notacast Facebook group, you'll know a big running joke is why not make this a Girls Gone Canon group too. So we love the crossover. It was really exciting to meet a lot of the people. We were at a bar called PJ Ryan's. Eliana did show up very late. She was very hungry. At one point when we were surrounded by about 15 people chitter chattering about the books, she texted me and asked, well, she texted the whole group saying, someone find out what the soup of the day was. So if that tells you anything about Eliana, who showed up late as all get out. Okay, in my defense, it was an endeavor.

I'm going to regale you all with my Jersey trip. I went up on Sunday with Courtney courtney mazza from the facebook group uh and she also is i think an admin of the game of thrones facebook group and so i stayed at her cousin's place where her cat while i was sleeping stole my hair ties and that after you know i woke up with the cat like, looking over me a few times. I'm like, all right. Well, hello, creature. And then the next day I had to do a lot of work.

So I was just working. Then turns out while that was happening, Courtney's car was getting towed. So we had to go retrieve said car before we could even make it to the meetup, etc. It was a day etc it was a day it was a day when courtney always has things like this happen i feel like like just things happen to her right like just just stuff just stuff she'll be like well this just happened and i'll be like wow when does it stop girl i feel bad but what if i'm cursed what if i'm jinxing yeah what if i'm jinxing it Because I feel like last time it was when we traveled. God, I'm so glad I don't take you anywhere.

I know. I'm a jinx. I think you are. Well, we saw a lot of people, including Courtney and the boys from Madacast. We saw some of our friends over at the podcast Vassals of Kingsgrave. And we also saw some of the ladies from Fire and Lunch. Check them out. Mighty Isabel from Twitter and Reddit. And Joe Magician as well from Fire and Lunch. Check them out. Mighty Isabel from Twitter and Reddit

and Joe Magician as well from Twitter and Reddit. And we also saw a good friend of ours, Anthony Paliccio and his brother, Michael. Some other friends of the podcast that we got to see, Chris, Meg and her boyfriend, George. Some of our friends like Tracy from Winterfell Pod and Tanya from 1000 Eyes and One. We saw Don Willie from the Hypes Watch.

Got to hang out with him. I had a couple fights with him about Littlefinger. It's no big deal. And we saw Haley from the Manimals. Zach from Game of Owns. Rebecca, Lady of Waves. And overall, it was just a nice time out. We ended up having a few of us stayed at a smaller Airbnb with just some good

friends and some good alcohol. And then we had a very sloppy but fun live stream with a lot of the named suspects above. Exactly. And I'm never gonna rewatch this podcast. Oh, never, never. I'm never watching that. I'm never watching it. If you if you need to know anything about this podcast. I mean, it was fun. A lot of people said some very smart things. There was a lot of discussion, of course, about how excited we are for Fire and Blood and some teasers that you and because you and Emmett had already had some time to peruse the books very, very quickly. We got in. We all waited in line for like probably 10 minutes. That line moved very quickly. It wasn't long and it was fun.

You know, the line wrapped around, though. We got over there. We started the meetup at 530 and we got over to line like at 650 probably. So I think we got inside like 715. But it was fun. It was fun waiting outside and hanging out. We were all a little warm from some of uh the adult beverages we imbibed in and afterwards we got inside uh and immediately after getting our books poor Quentin Emmett and I were like heads in books nerds he was reading Hour of the Wolf I was reading Dance with the Dragons

all you guys were like look at the pretty pictures and me and Emmett were like we're going for info like we're over here texting you guys going dude dude, skip to this page. You find out who kills so-and-so. And you guys are like, what the hell? Like, what are you guys talking about? I know. I was like,

did you make this up? Is this really in there? And it was really in there. I'd be like, oh shit, it's in there. And then the lights dimmed and George started talking and. Yeah.

We put our books away. We put our books away. Yeah. You, you, uh, were able to find some things and that got brought up on the live stream just just barely and uh yeah then the next morning everyone was fine and i was really

hung over and it was you died i wasn't okay that's not the worst i've ever been i was surprised after after we all heard george speak we actually went back to that bar i thought we were all going home to the airbnb to get ready for the stream but josh brin and b fish was like no we're going to the bar so we all walked back to the bar uh and uh we imbibed in a little bit more adult beverages so by the time we got back to that airbnb which this live stream was supposed to start at 10 30 probably 10 35 10 45 when it started we uh we were ready to go and it just kept happening during i think i took control of the microphone at one point to pass it back and forth and moderate and i took control of the chat just because someone had to there was a lot of

people in that small that room was very small that living room it was very it was small it was intimate it was very intimate well yeah eliana drunkenly slinked herself along the couch like a cat she was laying behind us it was like she's very small she's just very small the cat spirit uh while i was sleeping we did learn a few things not a lot uh george didn't answer a lot of questions he answered probably about what five questions i feel like some of them got a little drawn out as well. They were very cherry-picked questions as well. And some of them were things that had answers to it before. Like, I appreciated a lot hearing about George's love of Stanley, but we did kind of get his his homage to stan lee a few days before on his blog

yeah i don't want to say it was disappointing there were a lot of great moments he's an amazing storyteller i love hearing him speak but it was disappointing the pace it felt like the questions were dragged out and it just i did like uh one story that i liked that he talked about was of course i know joe magician over uh wrote on Watchers on the Wall today about it, too. But it is my favorite. I talked about it on the live stream of House Brady's downfall. So George's mom, her line, her line of secession, her family was their last name was Brady. And they lived off of Lord Avenue.

They had a house there. And eventually their finances kind of crumbled and some things changed. They had to sell that house. The dock that they had, they owned a dock that was the Brady dock. It got taken away from and sold off. So George joked about how when he was writing Game of Thrones, he had this idea far before about Daenerys and her brother Viserys and the downfall of House Brady and Lord Avenue. And it really reminded me the story was really kind of it was a nice story just to hear him tell. I love hearing him tell stories. It reminds me of I want to say what is it Viserys

or Aegon Rhaenyra's son who it kind of gave me those vibes because they swore to get, you know, get vengeance for their mother. And in turn, it also gave me Princess Diana vibes, weirdly enough. Her sons. Yeah, her sons, when she had, you know, been basically pretty much set aside, they swore they would get her her crown back. You know, they said, Mommy, we're going to get you your crown back. So I thought that was really cool. It just kind of reminded me a bit of Rhaenyra to draw it back into Fire and Blood.

What did what were your particular favorite parts of what George talked about? I think that would probably be the same one for me in that, you know, he's talked about this history of his family before, but it was nice to hear him explicitly connected to being an inspiration for Daenerys' storyline. I was also thinking something that I thought that was hilarious was how George, you know, was talking about how his world was so small back then. He lived on this small area of town in Bayonne, New Jersey, and he would look out across the canal, and he would look at Staten Island and be like,

looking at the twinkling lights of Staten Island and thinking of it as a place full of legend and myths and wonder. And he just kept that to himself. And it's Staten Island. But so there's that. Not Dragonstone. No, it's not. I've been mulling that over and especially because so much of George's childhood and that lost greatness is part of Daenerys' storyline. I was thinking about how a few weeks ago, Bookshelf Stud aka Michael over on

Meester Monthly and on the subreddit wrote about how the Great Gatsby is an American myth or this American story that is being channeled through A Song of Ice and Fire. And George has talked explicitly about how much he loves the book The Great Gatsby. And then I think a few weeks after that, or maybe a week after that or something, Elio from Westeros said in a quote that for him, he thinks that the Red Door in Braavos is very much inspired by The Great Gatsby. And by that, he's talking about how the Red Dwarf in Braavos is to Daenerys what the green light of the Great Gatsby is to Jay Gatsby, the character. And I think you can really see that in the Great Gatsby,

Jay Gatsby's always looking across the river, and he's looking at the green light. And I see that image when I think of George looking across the river at Staten Island and so you have all these things from George's childhood being channeled into Daenerys I don't know it was really illuminating it was great to hear from him in his own words and he did something I didn't love that happened and I'm sure you could relate was the heartache that George brought us of course course, the ultimate question, the penultimate question we all wait for about T-Wow did happen early on.

John Hodgman got that out of the way very early. And man, it was a bummer because not because of what George said as far as progress. I don't care about that. George, baby, take your time. But it hurt to hear him say, and he did say this, that he feels as if he had failed because the show got ahead of the books. And, I mean, Brendan B. Fish just pointed this out on Twitter today.

I mean, A Dance with Dragons, that's an 83,000 words that is per year. That took him, what, five years to write? Oh, sure. That's pretty lengthy. I mean, I just think people really disregard how expansive these books are, especially because if you buy them, you're more than likely getting the little paperback copy, which means it doesn't look big. That's a lot. That's a lot, a lot, a lot packed into one book, especially we have, what,

dozens to almost hundreds of podcasts about Game of Thrones and A Song of Ice and Fire available on the market no series should be able to support that that's a lot he's writing so I just think it's so unfair for him to think to himself that he failed but we're all hard on ourselves I think there's that I so of course he's getting a lot of criticism right now with social media and that becomes a little more prominent and I don't think that some of the negative reviews from actual professional reviewers and writers have helped. But this is an interesting context that I saw this morning. Adam Wertheid over of Wertzone, who is a friend of George, he's cited in A Dance with Dragons. He said that he feels that the vitriol and the criticism was actually much, much more. There was more. Adam Whitehead of

The Word Zone, and who's a friend of George, who's credited in A Dance with Dragons as helping out Stone, and who's a friend of George, who's credited in A Dance with Dragons as helping out with the writing of it, said that there was actually more vitriol and criticism prior to the publishing of A Dance with Dragons than there was this time around. And I think he credits that to the fact that George had written that Dance would be out a year after Feast. But I think that people's expectations have been set now. They know that it's going to be, it could end up being longer, which it has, and it is what it is. Yeah, it is what it is, and we're going to get it when we get it. I think that's what matters. But it was still disheartening just to hear him a little broken up about it, man. His voice took a little break there, right? Like, it was sad. It was a bummer i agree and they started they were ending the

entire q a session kind of with this feeling of positivity and i just like couldn't help thinking at and i kind of shouted this also at the end you know without george like we wouldn't be doing this podcast you and i wouldn't be friends like for me the seeing george was really great but I found the highlight personally for Monday night being like getting to see this community getting to see all these people that I've met because of what George has made and I just think that that's really awesome and that you know absolutely agreed absolutely agreed a song of ice and fire are the friends we made along the way oh my god you you tried to say it so many times this weekend. I was so proud. Anyways. It's true. It's my words are wind. Oh my god, Eliana. Words are wind. And

speaking of words, what have you gotten to read anything in the book so far? What do you like so far? I haven't gotten to read anything in the book so far. Okay, so Eliana has not gotten to read anything in the book so far. Unfortunately, I cannot say the same. I could not keep my paws off of it. And something we're going to talk about in just a bit in our Dance of the Dragons episode, coming to you guys end of the month here for all $5 plus patrons, are a lot of further reveals on motivations of characters like Larry's the clubfoot and how strong in the dance and in the book. There's just a lot going on.

I've made it all the way to Jahari's so far. I'm on the very beginning of Jahari's. So hopefully I can get some good reading in this week. But I think something I'm going to talk a lot about in this episode we're going to be doing is justice for Jahera Targaryen. I'm going to bring justice for Jahera to our podcast, Eliana. I'm going to bring vengeance justice.

Fire and blood. Yeah. Or hairnet. We'll get to this. Oh my god. Hey, we do have an email of note to bring up from our good friend Warren. Do you want to read that for us sure it says ladies the one where joffrey dumps her during the chapter little finger get a job is appointed lord paramount of the trident sansa considers this a hollow and unusual title given

that the region is loyal to her grandfather and or brother she ponders further that maybe that might change becoming concerned for Rob's well-being, reassuring herself with thoughts of his valor on the field. Her initial thoughts prove horrifyingly right, though, and when you get here, I'd love to hear your take on this. I'm also impressed by the subtlety with which George displays Sansa's intelligence. I have to say, my eyes are really opening this reread. This is an incredibly well-written and considered character, and I find myself looking for these little nuggets of extreme calculated intelligence. In this

instance, I'm not sure Tywin has fully developed his evil plot. Fuck the Lannisters. Fuck them all. But Sansa is already putting the pieces together. Looking forward to a new episode very soon. Keep them coming. Warren. Warren, he always makes our day.

Yeah, I'm excited to really jump into this episode to kind of square us into more of that. We're going to talk a lot, a lot about what he's talking about in this episode. So let's jump on into our lightning round. Eliana? Daenerys V. Daenerys flees the House of the Undying in Zorro's affections for her dragons.

Later, she meets the best character in all of A Song of Ice and Fire, Strong Belmas. That's it. I'm sorry, no, there's actually more. In Esquire, Arsene Whitebeard, whom we have never met before in our lives save for save her life from a manticore but back to strong bellows in aria 10 aria's new new new new job she's really bad in regards as like turnover right she's working for ruse bolton she flees harrenhal with her friends by the chapter's end by slitting the throat of a guard. This is also the chapter where the Freys get quote-unquote betrayed, so they change the tides with Roose Bolton. Also, it is the I am a dire wolf and done with wooden teeth chapter, which is one of my

faves. I know our listener Warren will like that one. It's probably one of his faves too. I think it's really cool that these two chapters ramp up on the magic on the faceless men on the House of the Undying. It reminds me of something George said on Monday that might actually be my other kind of favorite thing where he talks about how, you know, dragons are really difficult to put in story and magic is really difficult because if you have magic and you have dragons, why? Why would there be armies? The armies wouldn't line up. They they'd die they just magic magic so he talks about how he handles that really carefully in the story and i think aria's chapters are a really great balance of that that's true um now that i think about it with the exception of of course dragons or with the exception of of course dragons a lot of the very very big magic that we see

in the books happened years before right from the children of the of course, dragons, a lot of the very, very big magic that we see in the books happened years before, right, from the Children of the Forest. And they required, like, a huge, there was a huge price for them. There was a sacrifice of either, like, of many lives in order to, like, do the hammer of the waters. And a lot of the magic that we see in the books is small and individual. It's frightening, but it's on that individual level. This brings us to Sansa Stark 8. Bend the knee or hear him roar. Good King Joffrey hears petitions from those wishing to join his honorable and just cause.

Sansa loses approximately 145 pounds of golden incest, but she learns her torments aren't quite over as a ward of the crown. Dantos gives Sansa a heirloom that, unbeknownst to her, has magic within it. And that brings us to the chapter Lords and Ladies. Fill the throne room. And the fashion is on point. Cersei's wearing a queenly gown of Lannister colors. Yeah, you can tell that she's feeling safe in her house colors after winning the battle, which is a total contrast against Tywin we'll talk about later her dress is prominently gold which is

possibly showing not only her lannister wealth but telling of the tyrell connection to come and keeping that kind of open right wearing the gold welcoming the tyrells to their court she's wearing slashed velvet which establishes their wealth and dominance over the court as well and the high septon's crown is cascading rainbows everything it's really pimped out it's very crystally jollabar joe is in a cape of feathers varys is out here in a lilac brocade. And even Moonboy and Ser Dantos have new motley on. So truly, we are balling out today. Lady Tanda and her daughters are wearing turquoise silk, which is pretty pricey, and a Vair dress. Vair trim dress, sorry. And I have a photo in here in the notes that hopefully our patrons will see when they get uploaded. But Vare is basically generally it's a dark brown or blue gray squirrel hair seen in like a patterned look.

It's seen a lot as heraldic fur. It's patterned, right? Like you see this pattern on it that's in sigils. If you haven't ever, please look it up. It's interesting. So it's interesting to think every time you see someone's outfit lined with Vare, this will replace your's just like a weird almost cross-like pattern i don't like it i'm looking at the picture that chloe has put into our document and it kind of just looks like ugly it looks like little it literally looks like little squirrels just sewed together which i know that is what

it is but sometimes when you see like fur things there there's not just like, it doesn't look like a cape of dead animals, dead rodents, really. Also, exactly. It's really showing lesser, right? Like there isn't really, it's kind of cheap looking. It just looks tacky. Not even cheap. It looks tacky is the problem. Yeah.

Lord Giles is coughing into a red handkerchief more lannister colors here trimmed with golden lace joffrey though is totally bedazzled he's wearing crimson semi a black mantle with rubies and a heavy golden crown of course this is another gesture at how joffrey's not a baratheon the overwhelming overwhelming of the Lannister colors, and who the true power and wealth behind the throne is. Sansa pushes to the front of the queue, just as Tywin Lannister makes his grand entrance. And boy, is it grand. That one's not a metaphor.

He rides his giant war horse down and through the Sea of People, and he and his horse are super decked out, because if we're going to deck out the fools, we're also going to pimp out the horses. horse down and through the sea of people and he and his horse are super decked out because you know if we're gonna deck out the fools we're also gonna pimp out the horses this is you're pimping your ride right here mtv is gonna pimp your horse oh my god i would watch that tywin's got red steel gold inlays he's got a roaring sunburst lion rondles you name it he got it he has ruby-eyed lions on the helm and this is a fucking fashion show right here everyone is in their finery especially tywin lannister and again the horse has a gilded armor and a shimmering crimson drape yeah tywin's wear here kind of suggests we've won the battle but

not yet the war and you know you know, we're still ready to fight where Cersei is totally calm, casual. Here's my sexy golden red dress. I'm the queen. But Tywin has bigger fish to fry, so to speak. Tywin's warhorse shits right in front of the throne because, you know, how's that for a metaphor? Yeah, we could dig into it, but I feel like everyone gets it. All right. You all understand what this is. We've all read the books, Eliana. Joffrey hugs his grandpa. He's taking care not to step in the shit. He calls Tywin savior of the city for everyone to hear and makes a pretty big deal of asking his grandpa to assume the regency until Joffrey is of age. Tywin's armor gets removed by squires and Joffrey pins the golden hand chain to him.

Tywin takes his place next to Cersei and the real show begins. We have a line of heroes begging for credit from the battle pull through. We've got Mace Tyrell and his sons, Loras and Garland, who are all dressed in green and sable. Mace is chubby hot he's described as fat but still handsome joffrey fastens a golden rose chain with the lannister lion in rubies against their necks which this is like the time he says i will grant you three genie wishes so while he's showing them and giving them such a gracious gift with rubies, which are expensive, it's also kind of, you know, implicating them, hey, you're one of us now, welcome to the team. So you know, you know, this is a double-sided gift.

Sansa holds her breath and she's thinking the time has finally come. It's here. And Sansa thinking internally, the time has finally come of course cues the reader that hey things are happening but it also colors both sansa and the reader's interpretation of everything because sansa and now we know that this is all a show and so the language reflects all of this with wording like joffrey made a show of looking surprised loris asks for a kingsguard position because you know, we're conveniently missing a couple. Kingsguard are running off or dying by the handfuls these days, and it really stems from the end of Robert's Rebellion. With most of Aerys' Kingsguard dying

off, Robert had to replace his with a mediocre lineup as we've sort of discussed in the past. Ever since then, it seems like it's been nothing but a revolving door in King's Landing. They need an HR department at this stupid startup. How about some benefits, maybe? Yeah. A 401k? Oh, we could have gotten Sandra Clegane some mental health benefits. That would have been helpful. Yeah, he needs them. That would have been very helpful. Yeah, maybe Vanden Moore wouldn't have felt the need to do whatever he did. Yeah, not to push my political policies, but like universal health care for all here in Westeros. In Westeros.

Mace asks for a spot on the small council. Then Garland asks for Joffrey to wife up my sister, please. And then Joffrey makes this like big display of, I'm promised to another. Alas, I would marry the beautiful maid. Circe then uses the setup to lay down the Sansa's a traitor. You should probably marry this chick anyway, because everyone here agrees. The crowd starts to chant, no more traitor queens, give us Margaery. Which, of course, it's a small price to pay for Sansa to endure that when it

comes to wanting to be free of him. Joffrey accepts Garland's wish and lifts him to his feet, kissing him on the cheek and proclaiming them brothers to be. And there's a really interesting description here while Sansa is waiting for Joffrey to accept. Sansa's scared again because Joffrey could suddenly pull something out of left field like he did before and go against the plan like he did when he sentenced Ned to death instead of being like, yeah, he's going to go to the wall. But then we see this line where it says, Lord Tywin was looking at his grandson.

Joff gave him a sullen glance, shifted his feet, and helped Ser Garland Tyrell to rise. So we see that Cersei's very unable to control Joffrey because, as Joffrey says in his little shitty speech before he lops Ned's head off, he doesn't really do it. Joffrey thinks that women have weak hearts and he doesn't respect his mother, he doesn't respect Cersei. So we see here that Tywin, without even really doing anything, can cow Joffrey and we get to see that dynamic that's going to carry through the rest of both of them ruling here. Yeah. And where most noble ladies would be ashamed, Sansa has a pretty different feeling right now. She feels freedom. Sansa felt curiously lightheaded.

feels freedom. Sansa felt curiously lightheaded. I am free. She could feel eyes upon her. I must not smile, she reminded herself. The queen had warned her, no matter what she felt inside, the face she showed the world must look distraught. I will not have my son humiliated, Cersei said. Do you hear me? Yes, but if I'm not to be queen, what will become of me? That will need to be determined for the moment you shall remain here at court as our ward. I want to go home. The queen was irritated by that. You should have learned by now, none of us get the things we want. I have, though, Sansa thought. I am free of Joffrey. I will not have to kiss him, nor give him my maidenhood, nor bear him children. Let Margaery Tyrell have all that, that poor girl. This, of course, provides us the context for why Sansa knew what was coming, and once more gives

us that Ned kind of writing, where we're pushed right in the middle of that chapter and then we get it all unrolled for us. Sansa then feigns sadness at being set aside in front of the entire court because you gotta look sad when someone breaks up with you and the parade of Blackwater heroes continues. Lord Redwine seeks an audience with his sons that Sansa used to call horror and slobber. seeks an audience with his sons that Sansa used to call horror and slobber. It's kind of interesting. I wonder if there are any blood and cheese nods to that. I always think it's just a weird pairing of names. It's a weird pairing of names,

but I feel like George kind of likes doing that. Like he's got left and right later on. And also Eric and Eric. Yeah. Hobber and Horace and Hobber just sound like they're really they just sound tweedle d and tweedle yeah they just like sound so much more innocent and like they just sound more innocent all right than blood and cheese they're just like oh i don't know we were stuck here we didn't really want to be here and oh my god my poor brother's being forced to fight in this tourney and then he just got injured like it's really sad i do think

that there is something to that tyrell causeway like something especially with the tea party in the garden of alice in wonderland right sansa and through the looking glass and tweedle d and tweedle dumb for left and right and i think there's some sort of quality there being played with yeah it's something george is interested in and of course it's coming in through sons his own storyline which might reflect alice in wonderland probably not everyone's just shitty yeah we definitely see him play with it in the house of the undying chapter with daenerys as well yeah um a little bit in oh let's see there's another place that we also see it reflected in but i digress mathis rowan comes on for the blackwater heroes he's the man that we also see it reflected in, but I digress. Mathis Rowan comes on for the Blackwater Heroes.

He's the man that is married to the woman Hoster totally wanted Brendan to marry, Bethany Redwine. He is also who sent Darren the Singer to the Night's Watch. He found him a bed with his daughter, fun fact. He's currently commanding the siege at Storm's End in present A Song of Ways and Fire time. And then we get Randall Tarly. Boo. Boo. Hiss.

Boo. Boo. We see Heartsbane for the first time, too. It's in its scabbard, but jeweled and mighty looking. Boo. Boo. Then we also get Sir Kevin Lannister. Mm-hmm.

I'm all right. Nothing to say there. I mean, it's Kevin. Y'all know who Kevin isannister. I'm all right. Nothing to say there. I mean, it's Kevin. Y'all know who Kevin is. He's in this. Yeah. We'll get to Kevin. We have Sir Adam Marbrandt.

Of course, the Lannisters have ties to House Marbrandt. They are, as we know, sworn to the Westerlands. Their lands, Ashmark, are just northeast of Casterly Rock. Adam actually squired for House Lannister and became friends with Jaime in his childhood. The big ties, though, between House Marbrand and Lannisters that we can relate to are Jane Marbrand wedding Tytos, making him and her Jaime Cersei and Tyrion's grandfather and grandmother. Then we have Lord Lydon of Deepden. We have Lord Crakehall, of Deep Den.

We have Lord Crakehall, whose sigil is a boar and their words are none so fierce. We got Lord Brax. Unicorn house! The unicorn's a hornbill! I just love that they are purple and silver unicorns. Same. I'm wondering if that's going to mean anything

later. Maybe, maybe not. We've seen griffins come to roost, you know? Yeah, maybe Gaiske skagosi i don't know yeah then k comes some of the lower born heroes that rise to glory like sir philip foot he has one eye after that um they make him a lord and give him house karen's lands right night song this guy goes on in life to testify against tyrian if we're gonna do a where are they now and of course drumroll eliana for your fave he's you like him too i do love him lother broom bless bless up fam he cut his way through half a hundred fossaway men in battle

red fossaway i think they're red fossaway men because he was rescuing a Green Fossway. Whom also bless. Bless everyone. Bless this house. The Green Fossways. Eliana's just Tiny Tim right now. She's just, God bless us. God bless everyone of us. No, just Lothar Brood and the Green Fossways.

That's it. Yes. We meet him once again in the Eyrie under Littlefinger's service. He gets raised to a knight here and promised land when the war is done in Riverlands, which paper shield. We also get Willett, who's a man in Harry Swift's service. He pulled Swift out from his dying horse, boo, and saved him from attackers. So he was so injured he was brought in on a litter. For his service, he's granted nice weaponry,

armor. His sons are sent to be squires and pages in serviced House Lannister. They have the chance to advance to knighthood if they serve loyally. This is as much a gift as it is a threat. The Lannisters are afraid of any small power and uprising, and this is means to bind control over those they're gifting by putting them right in their own household. Not quite as classy as how the Targaryens did it, I guess. We could have added a few fancy marriages in there, but. It reminds me of the origins of House Clegane. While they weren't necessarily taken into House Lannister, it's very much a similar, it looks like it's the start of a similar dynamic. Then we have Josmyn Peckleden.

Heck. Downy-cheeked. I love it. They say he's downy-cheeked. He's just so adorable. He's not more than 14, and he killed and wounded and captured men in the battle. They give him sword and armor and any warhorse he desires, and knighthood when he's old enough. I kind of hope he shows up again in the story.

By now, he's probably around 16, and I believe Jaime was knighted, right's old enough. I kind of hope he shows up again in the story. By now, he's probably around 16. And I believe Jamie was knighted right at 16. Granted, you know, that was very much exceptional. He was like one of the youngest, but it sounds to me like Jossman Peckledin has also done an exceptional job in an actual battle, and not just a tourney. I would love to see that. We get a lot of the people that served on the warships, the captains of the warships, the admirals. We get the warships of Wild Wind, Prince Aemon, and River Arrow, and officers from Godgrace, Lance, Lady of Silk, and Ram's Head. Sansa thinks, well, their only accomplishment was not getting blown up, but as she says,

that's a huge feat because everybody was getting blown up but as she says that's a huge feat because everybody was getting blown up hallein the pyromancer and the alchemist guild masters are also called up they're raised to the style of lord but they're given no lands and no castles sansa thinks this makes them no true lords of course merely a lord like varys in title then you come across lancel lannister and we're gonna come back i'm gonna talk about lancel again as i always do who is awarded the lands of house dairy because dairy has no true born heirs so keep that in mind uh that were left after the liver liverlands the riverlands were torn apart and lancel's wounds in the battle were very awful and he couldn't show up to accept his titles

and as we learn later he kind of doesn't want them at all whether he's dying or not we also find out from sanza that tyrian lannister is wounded and he's said to be dying which we think he might be dying too and that he suffered a cut to the head well at this point in the story right if you're reading it through the first time obviously we all know he survives yeah we all know we know he survives little finger of course is the biggest jackass of the hour he shows up in fancy cloaks and robes and rich roses and plums which let's take a fashion hour break, fake royalty much? If the rose is a lighter color, complementary to the plum, I suspect it's a very pink rose color, indicating sweetness, and in Littlefinger's case, indicating the showing of overt sweetness.

A deep plum color can only mean ambition and royalty, which makes all of this well in line for Littlefinger, especially because he's bringing his highest, sweetest courtesies to the king. He's barely lifting his Littlefinger, and suddenly he has a kingdom. Sansa thinks he looks pleased as he kneels toward the throne. He did nothing special in battle, but he's being rewarded all the same. He was given Harrenhal and made Lord Paramount of the Trident, but if Fire and Blood and other Targaryen histories have shown us nothing, Harren the Red, Lucas Haraway, and Walton Towers have all shown us Harrenhal can't just be given and it certainly can't just be kept.

We know, of course, why Littlefinger got this, because he brought the Tyrells to the fray. All of these are covered fairly quickly, and especially what you're saying right it's all this speaks to how much this thing that's going on in the throne room is just a performance it's just a show little finger like you said can't just be given the lordship like this it's an empty honor and the people who aren't here i'm going to talk about the people who we just talked about who aren't in the room like they're they're from House Lannister. They are very much also Lannisters. And they were the ones who were actually out there holding this goddamn city for all these other people, right?

And they're not being showered with honors in front of everyone. Like, they're just like, oh, yeah, Tyrion Lannister, he might be dying. Lancel, I guess, gets some stuff, but he's not able to make it. and so I guess gets some stuff, but he's not able to make it. And the people who get all the attention showered upon them right now are late Lord Tywin and Mace and Garland, who was, they kind of won because he was pretending to be Renly. I mean, sure, they also brought a whole bunch of like troops and men, but also because they were like, oh, look, it's Renly, it's Renly, it's Renly.

And the entire ceremony is just all this pomp and performance. And the real heroes of the Blackwater, from the perspective of the readers, because we actually read this thing and have the other POVs, are the ones who said that the king, like, Lancel's like, the king needs to be out there. I was out there. He's got to be fighting alongside his men. And he and Tyrion were out there.

They risked life and limb in order to hold king's landing and they're not here where the quote-unquote heroes are being honored they'll just be insulted and mocked later yeah they're playing at war the lannisters are playing at war overall right like this is they're putting on their dog and pony show and they're just playing games. At the end of the night, over 600 new knights are made. The knights are made to hold overnight vigil in the sept and walk across the city barefoot, like kind of like a knight hazing almost. Some of them are said to have bloody feet by the end, which like, I get it. I understand they need knights who want to serve and this weeds out some weaker links but it's crazy to think that the knights think this is an honor

and their only way to rise up because why would you bleed for this community that isn't even what it promises to be right there are no true knights this is yeah it's a good job but at what cost yeah your feet she said your feet apparently apparently maybe people's feet are like better back maybe they had like hobbit feet you know it's all full of calluses and everyone's so only three kings guard are on hand and it takes a while for them to knight everyone uh mandan moore died on the blackwater, as we know, and Sandor has disappeared, and Ahri's Okard is down in Dorne with Myrcella. And Sansa, of course, knows what happened with Sandor. We know what happened to Mandan Moore because of Tyrion's POVs. Jaime is, of course, Robb's captive, which leaves us with Balon Swan,

Meryn Trant, and Osmund Kettleblatt. The crowd and Joffrey grow bored during the ceremony, but the duty remains to be done, in come the captives. There's Lord Celtigar, the Red Crab. There's Sir Bonifor the Good. I love the name Bonifor. I don't even, like, get it, but I just

want to say that I like this name. Well, I like the Bonifor with Rayla, too, you know? Yeah. Sir Bonifor Hastings. Yeah. It's like Jennifer, but Bonif but bonifer anyways that's how i think about that name lord estermont and lord varner whose knee is shattered we got red ronit of griffin roost who's gonna come back in this he's gonna come back in the story or he didn't or maybe he's not really selling them out who

knows who knows we got sir dermot of the rainwood lord willem and his sons joshua and elias sir john fosaway sir timone the scrape sword orain bastard ofmark, look how far this motherfucker came. Lord Studman, called Penny Lover. And hundreds of others. Joffrey makes a show of it. If they were loyal to Stannis, they had to work for it, but if they had switched sides during the battle, they only had to swear fealty to his grace. People speak out for Stannis, saying this is not over for the pretender boy king. He has Sir Illyn take a man's head, but another king's man speaks out. Stannis is the true king. A monster sits the Iron Throne, an abomination born of incest.

Joffrey is the black worm eating the heart of the realm. Darkness was his father, and death his mother. Destroy him before he corrupts you all destroy them all queen whore and king worm vile dwarf and whispering spider the false flowers save yourselves the scouring fire will come king stannis will return this guy's so dramatic this guy's so extra like imagine being this extra in the throat i don't even think i was extra enough for this i know i gotta wail more the language though part of what makes him sound so extra is this language but it really stands out to me like the language this character uses is similar to the way that a lot of prophecies seem to be worded like they use all these epithets to describe people for example like darkness was

his father death his mother and things like vile dwarf black worm and interestingly we do see cersei described as death or a stranger perhaps the stranger a few times throughout the series like when maggie the frog calls cersei she calls cersei death right to malara heatherspoon says your death is here with us, she's near. But this like queen whore and king worm, vile dwarf and whispering spider, the false flowers, it reminds me of how Quaithe warns Daenerys. Soon comes the pale maren after her, the others Kraken and Darkflame, Lion and Griffin, the sun's son and the mummer's dragon. It's similar language and it makes it feel prophetic i don't know that it necessarily is um maybe this person saw something uh but we do at least know that there is truth in what they're

saying stannis is the true king here and not joffrey who is in fact an abomination born out of incest not because he's born out of incest he's an abomination for other reasons because bless our child marcella and tommen even though he doesn't like beats whatever and we'll keep him yeah we'll keep him all this is revelatory but this man feels to me like the way that he's out here in this throne room like a scorned prophet who's just shattering the veneer of this royal falsehood yeah joffrey of course then throws a huge tantrum he commands them to kill this guy. And as he's freaking out, he slices his arm open on the Iron Throne. The king begins wailing for his mother.

Just think about that. The king starts to wail for his mother. The room is quiet and everyone is watching. And the man on the floor takes this moment to grasp a gold-cloaked spear, fighting for it and getting himself back up and crying that the throne denies Joffrey. I just kind of wish that Joffrey would have Maegor'd himself here, right? Like, I just read Sons of the Dragon again, and I'm just like, man, I wish he would have just, bleh, oops.

Oh, well. Oh, well. It could have happened. We got a good death out of him. Yeah. I mean, we obviously do have so many Maegor parallels. We don't have to point it out. Everybody can grab them.

But, you know, even the first time Maegor got a sword, he was said to, you know, cut out a cat. So just bloop, bloop, bloop. Yeah, it's definitely something that George is drawing connections between. Yeah. But then as soon as Joffrey's gone because you know he can't stay on the battlefield he can't do anything in the throne room like he can't do anything the room comes back into motion the gold cloaks drag the dead stanis supporter out of the room which leaves a trail of blood on the white stone which again creates that image like the blood on the male fist the white glove of blood

and death defiling something pure everyone else begins to talk and whisper alish kind of does this villain beard stroke while various whispers to him which kind of interesting we don't see a lot of their interactions in a clash of kings besides the small council with tyrian it makes me wonder what they were whispering about talking about how much this cleaning bill is going to cost that's what various is asking he's like hey do we do we have it in our budget right now to like clean all this up they only come on thursday mornings right they're like can you can you pay a little extra for them to come like tonight we've got an emergency cleaning yeah we're supposed to have a ball this week so

so sansa wonders if they're gonna dismiss the court because of this kerfuffle but stan it not stan is my god tywin continues to hold court and as he does this what he does is he like moves very calmly he's just like gesturing with like his fingers like we good and then as opposed to joffrey's wild flailing that got him injured he tywin silently just sits on the third step of the throne. He's not in the seat, but it's clear who's the king here and who's acting and has the power. And it's just like Ares II, I'll come again. Yeah, Tywin is truly being the hand of the king all over again, just like during before Robert's rebellion there. The session goes

on until the night draws and Sansa leaves the gallery. She is exhausted. She wondered how badly Joffrey had cut himself. They say the Iron Throne can be perilous cruel to those who are not meant to sit it. Again, very Maegor vibes. Sansa returns to her chambers. She's so happy Joffrey set her aside.

She can't even right now. She could kiss her serving girl. She eats her food and she's like happy joffrey set her aside she can't even right now she could she could kiss her serving girl she eats her food and she's like this even tastes good hell yeah i'm sure it tasted good the whole time yeah probably what i like about this scene i don't know if you know what i'm talking about like it feels like an inversion of these tropes and i'm sure george doesn't watch the same stupid rom-coms that i do right but it's probably not even doing that but it feels to me like you know sansa's returning to her chamber she runs to the bed she squeals with joy into her pillow and she's like everything's great and i kind of associate that scene of a teenage girl squealing with delight with when she runs back into a room with something like something but really well with her

crush but here it's like flipped on its head a little because she's super giddy because like finally Joffrey's like broken up with me we're free I don't know if you know the scene I'm talking about I do no I do and I think it's totally like of course he knows that because think about it uh it starts off with that it starts off with Sansa being like that right it starts off with her all dreamy idol oh I hope he likes me oh today went so well he was such a gentleman he was so courteous today at the feast she thinks things like that throughout all of a game of thrones until Ned's head topples down those steps and now it's oh oh my god, I'm done. I don't have to be with him. That's great.

She slips into a cloak and she leaves for the godswood when darkness falls. Osmund Kettleblack guards the drawbridge and Sansa gets past him. Dantos greets her, but she comments he looks sad and she asks why. Sansa was out here jumping for joy. She's like, yes, leave me alone. Let me eat a fucking lemon cake. She's like, how are you not happy right now? I'm happy.

How are you not happy, Dantos? You were there. You heard it. You heard it. But of course, Dantos says, Cersei will never let you go. You are too valuable of a hostage to her, Sansa. And Joffrey will still have his way with her and now she'll have bastards instead of princes and princesses and of course sansa is shocked at

all of this she didn't think about any of this like i didn't sign up for this shit she really didn't not not at that point um and all of these truths these harsh truths that dantos is talking about it's a perfect place like where all this and, like, for it to end this chapter for Sansa. Because these truths are coming out because of this tension in this chapter created by that difference between the public and the private, the open, things that are happening in the open and inside and the spectacle versus just like reality and the throne room right that's an enclosed space it becomes a stage where people are just acting out chivalry and courtesy while again like the real heroes of the black water are not really tywin lannister they're they're not even in the room it's lancel and tyrian and injury i guess it wasn't pretty except they brought in i guess that one kid on a stretcher

so that was nice but you have the niceties and underneath it all it's just like horseshit which thank you to tywin's horse for telling us this with your butt and out here though we're underneath this open sky like the like the dothraki things of importance happen in the open and no one's really watching them except for i don't, maybe the old gods from the trees. But we don't know. Probably. And in this private moment that's happening outside, we see all these ugly truths come out from Dantos. Of course you have to be stuck here. And we're getting a peek at the real Game of Thrones.

We have an idea of what Littlefinger's playing at, at the schemes. And the truths that Joffrey may say one thing in public to save face, but he's going to keep being a monster in private. Their heart tree in the Red Keep is the oak tree with the smokeberry vines. So it is definitely, definitely watching, which I think that's really interesting

because there's dragon's breath growing right below the heart tree. That's right there. That's the. Yeah. Isn't that interesting? I've never. Isn't that really cool?

I've never noticed that until this moment. You're always teaching me so much. You teach me so much. Guys, we had a great time hanging out together. I miss you. I miss you too. We're going to do it soon. Don't worry.

Also, sidebar, if you guys haven't gotten to check out our twitter there's a great eliana and chloe content on our twitter it's a fan favorite apparently uh where are we going eliana oh no the alley the darkness the darkness the alley yes the darkness danto says that a day has been chosen to spirit sansa away, the night of Joffrey's wedding to Lady Margaery. The wedding still isn't for a moon's turn. He gives her something to wear at the wedding, a headpiece that we know is magic. It's fine spun silver with small dark gems from Asshai, dark amethysts, very rare, across it. Sansa thinks it's a ship she needs, not a hairnet to me that's such a denarius line from karth right

just two chapters ago so i'm sure we're meant to see this parallel girls just want to go home girls just want to go home well girls just yeah anyways santa thanks santa she tells him it's lovely and dantas is like but it's more than that. Lovelier than you know. Okay, hold on. This is the last line of the chapter. I'm going to start over and actually make it dramatic for all of you. This is our performance. Lovelier than you know, sweet child. It's magic, you see.

It's justice you hold. It's vengeance for your father. Dantos leaned close and kissed her again. Don't do that. It's home. Don't do that. It's home. Don't do that. Leave her alone. Get a job. Get a new job. This is the second time I think

at the very least he's kissed her in this chapter because earlier he gives her like a sloppy kiss on the ear and it's like, ugh, don't do that. Leave her ear alone. Gross. Sansa's never gonna want to have sex. Like, you realize that, right? Like, she's not even going to want it. Like, would you?

I wouldn't. I'd be like, get the fuck away from me. Only people's is gross. Just stay away from her. This ending, though, I tried to play it straight for a minute. Then we got to the part where he kissed her again. And I was like, I can't. I can't.

Sorry, everyone. But if you just focus on the other parts, like the you hold vengeance for your father it's home this is a very classic way of george ending character povs especially at the close of a book or if it's like the last pov of that book you can see how this construction compares in my opinion with like little fingers last words to sanza in a feast for crows it's got a very similar vibe. And of course we know now that Littlefinger says to Sansa why every knight in the Vale will pledge his sword to win you back your birthright. So those are your gifts from

me, my sweet Sansa, Harry the Eerie, and Winterfell. That's worth another kiss now. What is this? Wait a second. It's just creepy old men at the end of Sansa's chapters. It's just creepy old men. And, but... Trying to kiss her and give her stuff. The idea of like giving us, giving

her a thing, like giving her this this very big gift that promises home, promises justice and then it also compares with Arianne's ending for the chapters in Feast where

Doran, who is thankfully not a creepy old man he says vengeance his voice was soft as if he were afraid that someone might be listening justice prince doran pressed the onyx dragon into her palm with his swollen gouty fingers and whispered fire and blood so again we get that idea of those promises of vengeance and justice. And of course, the Martells, they know that what they want is a blood price. And we can see that thematically a little bit with Sansa's hairnet, especially with all that hindsight that the magic that they hold, it's death, it's poison, ties back with the prologue. And it's more than just the magic they hold being death. The bigger picture comes to characters at the end of the book and their last chapters being handed the tools to succeed and accelerate through the next point of their plot. Sansa is given this hairnet as a means of escape,

but it also brings her to fall into the clutches of Littlefinger, her name written in king's blood and coined for regicide. But since this is a reread, we all know the Ghost of High Heart gives a prophecy in Arya 8, A Storm of Swords. I dreamt of a maid at a feast with purple serpents in her hair, venom dripping from their fangs. And later, I dreamt that maid again slaying a savage giant in a castle built of snow. This hairnet may be a one-use item, but the end of Sansa's chapters in A Feast for Crow comes the product of that weapon. Sansa gets a chance at her own agency. We open the winds of

winter to her planning attorney in the Vale, and that agency is, one way or another, going to lead to her escape, just like the hairnet doomed her to Littlefinger, but still doomed her to escape by being in the place that holds connection, not just her father, but also her mother's sister. Sansa's reluctantly learning tools to survive from Cersei in King's Landing, just like she learned from Sandor throughout Clash, and just before one mentor goes up in flames, she ends up hopping right to the next. This chapter and ending is important because it opens up the field for the roses to overgrow their way into King's Landing and pushes Sansa to be in their path and eventually into Littlefingers. And so of course this is the last chapter of Sansa in A Clash of Kings and

A Clash of Kings it's of course a continuation of Sansa's arc. It's that aftermath of what happens once you learn that life is not a song. You're not automatically like super wise. It's a process of learning and unlearning all these different ideas. Now that Ned's lost his head, that's the beginning of Sansa's enrollment into the school of hard knocks. I'm really proud of this thing you guys. And for her first year of course, she's learning from Circe about how unfair everything is. Like, A Clash of Kings is very much an exploration of, I think, gender and what's expected of women

and being a queen between Sansa and Circe. And that you don't have to play it one way when Sansa starts having her own tools and knows what to do. But also, you know, Circe's kind of right. Nobody gets what they want. And Cersei is the Rolling Stones. But if you try sometimes, you might find the queen in the north.

The queen in the north. And I think on top of Cersei telling Sansa you can't always get what you want sansa does think you know if you try sometimes you might find you get what you need a hair net um no sansa still is such a long way to go even in storm but i think clash is that big kind of, like you said, it's that foray into crossing your fingers and trying to learn how the world actually works after you have the wool pulled off of your eyes, right? Like Sansa spent 11, 12 years thinking the world worked one way, and then she spent all of Clash learning the world doesn't work that way. So now a Storm of Swords is her trying to find a way for that world to be

better and that world to get different for her character. And a feast for crows is her getting used to figuring that out. And so next episode, we're going to come back and we're going to do a quick intro, right? Of a storm of swords and Sansa storyline and that. Yeah. Some of the players. Yeah, some of the players in that, some of the overall themes, some of what we're going to be looking out for

as we read that book. There's a lot. There's a lot to come. I'm really excited to get into A Storm of Swords. We have some exciting guests, or one or two guests that might join us while we read that book. We will start right back up next week. Thank you so much, patrons patrons for being patient

this week with the holiday and not getting this episode until today, Friday. Yep. And along with your patience, you will have two episodes next week. You're going to get again, that Dance of the Dragons episode, which is now going to be bolstered with, of course, what we got in those novellas. But now it's going to have a lot of that information that we have from Fire and Blood. So very excited about that. We wanted to do a deeper dive into this and we were just like, we got a week. Yeah, it's very ambitious, but I think we're going to do great. do great hey yeah if you're not a patron of ours make sure you check it out patreon.com slash girls gone canon any patrons that are five dollar and

up tiers will get a shot at listening to that episode uh if not hey we don't really care we're gonna do these episodes all the time for you guys, no matter what. You'll get your weekly episode from us on the feed. You'll get that on Podbeam, on Google Play, on iTunes, on Spotify, on Stitcher, and even on Acast. And, of course, you can always find us on social media and other things. Like, for example, you can find us on Twitter as Girls Gone Canon. You can send us emails at girlsgonecanon at gmail.com. Leave us comments and stuff on iTunes and on Podbean, where apparently people also say things. So there are many ways for you to reach out and talk to us.

Maybe even in person at another one of these things. Yeah, we would love to do another event maybe there will be a winds of winter announcement oh wow this coming winter tomorrow yeah we actually all received our copies at the fire and blood event so we'll have some analysis for you next week on those on the winds of winter yep yeah well hbo sent me mine months ago but of course with my paychecks yeah we we hbo shills oh my god you guys i have been chloe one of your hosts as always find me on the internet as at lies in arbor on twitter and on tumblr and i have been eliana another one of your hosts also known as glass table girl have hope you guys had a great holiday

yeah happy thanksgiving if you're listening and you celebrate from us to you we are absolutely grateful for you guys listeners so thank you for tuning in