Girls Gone Canon Cast - ASOIAF Episode 38 - ACOK Theon IV/V

Episode Date: February 8, 2019

Theon takes the house he could never truly belong to, and painfully descends towards losing himself at the hands of Reek. Eliana's twitter: https://twitter.com/arhythmetric Eliana's reddit account: https://www.reddit.com/user/glass_table_girl Eliana's blog: https://themanyfacedblog.wordpress.com/  Chloe's twitter: https://twitter.com/liesandarbor Chloe's blog: www.liesandarborgold.com 

Hello and welcome to Girls Gone Canon, episode 38. I am one of your hosts, Chloe. You can find me on the internet as Liza and Arbor on Twitter, Tumblr, and www.lizanarborgold.com. And I'm Eliana, another one of your hosts. And perhaps you know me as Glass Table Girl from the A Song of Ice and Fire subreddit or the Maester Monthly podcast or as Arithmetric over on Twitter. We're here. It's Theon4 and 5. Theon4. Theon5. It's all happening. It's Theon IV and V.

IVV. IVV. That's like me saying, I, baby, at Theon, because that is what we're gonna say this whole episode. Yeah. Oh my god. This is a rough one, man. There's a lot of, there's a lot of, like, Theon because that is what we're gonna say this whole episode. Yeah. Oh my god. This is a rough one. There's a lot of like, Theon, what

are you doing? Don't do that. That's bad. Like, very, very bad. Don't do that. Theon, stop. I think I I've talked about that now. I've said Theon, stop our conversations because I wish he would stop. And he does stop, but not...

Not my choice, per se. Ugh. Well, we don't have any emails or tweets and notes this week. We're gonna keep it moving. With this shorter month, we've got a lot of content to produce still. Lots going on. We have a really exciting guest next week

should we announce her we should yes we are going to be recording with crowfood's daughter from the disputed lands youtube channel she's fantastic we have uh actually been in conversation with her before isn't that right chloe yes we have we all we both did a awesome live stream with lml lucifer means lightbringer you could check that out on youtube it was about parenting in a song of ice and fire it was his between two weirwoods series very cool really good time really great content creators in the community so we will drop a link to check her out but we are so excited to record with her soon she is a wealth of knowledge and lore about the ironborn she is and she's also now

um a fellow moderator of mine on the asong of ice and fire subreddit ah welcome to the mod guard yeah yeah that's awesome you that those who wear the white cloak i don't think we i i think we used to always go we mix our metaphors it's really bad i think we mostly go with you know wearing the chain of the shitadel we yeah we serve yeah exactly we do i you know if we ever want to go into it much later on down the line and you can just actually check out my spiel on the night's cast i i stand that scene i hardcore defend that cinematic choice i watched it last night let's keep talking and not talk about this anymore yeah let's get into our lightning round actually instead of talking about the bad show in aria 8 after theon 3 as tywin lannister's host is leaving harrenhal

aria cashes in on another death from her fairy godmother, Jaqen H'ghar. Wee. Wee. Okay, Catelyn 5. After a series of wins for Team Stark, Catelyn comes home to Riverrun, where she learns more about her dying father than she probably would like to know. Isn't that how it is for all of us? Daenerys 3. Daenerys finds no help in Qarth, so she must

seek Piat Pree the warlock. Pree. Tyrion 9. The royal family sees Myrcella off to Dorne at the docks. And then a riot ensues. Davos 2. Davos learns Melisandre shares Stannis' bed. Stannis feels remorse at killing his brother. Davos watches Melisandre birth a shadow. Jon V, Corrin Halfhand, arrives with men from the Shadow Tower and plans to lead a party into Scurling Pass. He chooses Jon Snow as one of his party members. Tyrion 10. Tyrion squashes Cersei's plans at sending Tom into Rosby. Varys and Tyrion find a place for Shae at court. Tyrion and Varys discuss Stannis' less-than-conventional tactics.

Catelyn 6. Cleos Frey returns, and as the battle is won, Catelyn reflects on how she has always done her duty. Yeah, you have, Mama. Love you. done her duty. Yeah, you have, Mama. Love you. Bran 6. Dreaming through Summer's eyes, Summer tries to escape the godswood, but falls. Bran awakens from the fall to Theon, forcing him to

surrender the castle to the Ironborn. Arya 9. Arya enters service under Roose Bolton after convincing Jaqen to help her free the northern prisoners in Harrenhal. Daenerys IV. Daenerys sees many visions in the House of the Undying, and Drogon comes to her rescue from Piat Pree. Tyrion XI. Tyrion takes a wildfire inventory after dispatching his men to burn the King's Wood.

Theon IV. Desperate to prove himself, Theon hunts for the Princes of Winterfell and their entourage, Myrrah, Jojen, Osha, and Hodor. Instead of listening to Maester Luwin's plea for mercy, he takes counsel from Reek when the sun goes down. Counsel that contributes to a very quick rise and perhaps an even faster fall. And so begins Theon IV, with Theonon suddenly waking afraid that he heard something but what is there he's just a bed with kyra in lord eddard stark's bed get out of there he's apparently really into the fact that uh kyra is just a quote-unquote common tavern wench and he's bedding her in Lord Eddard Stark's bed this is Theon's kink and I mean in this essay I want to talk about how how Theon's treatment of women is very progressive in Westeros no uh Theon knows Ned as this cold

closed-off man right who betrayed his wife by having a bastard with an undisclosed woman. So here Theon is really, you know, giving it to Ned, fucking Kyra in his bed. And, you know, honorable Ned. Oh, of course, we know Ned's not really cold. He loved his family and he isn't dishonorable. But, you know, kind of leads me to think. you know, kind of leads me to think. It's interesting the way that he's seen on the outside, and we'll talk about that a little. But what I see in this scene is how Theon just makes this great foil for Jon. Apparently Theon makes a great foil for like almost every character, as we discussed throughout the rest of this episode.

But here, I think it's so interesting, like how Jon and Theon obviously wanted Winterfell, but it really plays out differently for them and how being an outsider in winterfell shaped them a little differently like theon grew up continuing to covet that lordship eddard stark had because he saw himself as within the system right because he's the only living son left of his gray joy father and so when theon gets a chance for freedom what he does is he sets himself up to be that lord instead and a prince later on and he ends up reinforcing just the worst parts of this feudal

system because all he does is he takes and he takes, and he just feels entitled to all of it. Like, everyone should be grateful to him while he just does a terrible job, and he just wants to reap all the benefits of this system for himself as soon as he gets the chance. Whereas our other outsider in Winterfell, Jon, instead tries to flee from that system. And he feels that it's given him nothing and gets outside of it by going to the wall. Because, you know, he can't win, so why bother trying? Theon wants the instant gratification of what being this lord could offer him, what being the prince of Winterfell could do for him, and his social standing with his family and his standing in general and also

getting back you know the family that took him and his confused feelings there it is a very interesting contrast with john who you know doesn't want winterfell and puts it aside and says it's not for me it's not my place dion uh wonders then if he had heard him heard something but he tells himself it's nothing after all he has guards posted everywhere and also apparently wex is also here in the room at the foot of the bed and he's a sound sleeper and uh that's weird wex is just there like i don't know a dog on the floor right at the foot of your bed like is he on the bed like or is he on the floor give him his own fucking room you have a whole castle you have several people that just vacated rooms in this castle like give him a pillow i don't know uh and i guess a lot of it too has to do with like theon doesn't trust

right now right like he's like super untrusting he doesn't want to let anyone out of his sight that like has info on him because in the next chapter we see how he starts to feel about reek for example but look at where theon is now compared to you know like in a dance of dragons compared to a clash of kings come on buddy i don't know he yeah theon looks out over winterfell and he just doesn't hear anything he thinks that he should be drunk with joy because, you know, he did just take Winterfell with only 30 men, which is pretty impressive, even if it was on easy mode at the time. Yeah, I mean, if he really wanted to be impressive, he could have done it with 20 good men. Oh my god, what about 20 bad men? This is like a- yeah, that's true. This is an actual thing, and it's gonna actually come into play in the next chapter, which, you know, never- again,

never gets old for me. Anyway, turns out it's actually it is nothing the problem is that it's nothing because it's what theon isn't hearing the wolves where are they they're quiet theon tells erzin who is the guard at the door to go check on the wolves and then he has wex go check on bran and his little brother which is how it's phrased and you know i'm not going to be surprised if theon doesn't always remember rickon's name i mean wait there's another one just kidding oh you know you know that other stark theon thinks he has too few men to keep the castle with and he hopes that asha will come wax returns to signal that bran and rickon are not in their beds ursin returns right after that and the wolves are gone as well theon told himself he must

be as cold and deliberate as lord eddard roost the cat rouse the castle he said herd them out into the yard everyone will see who's missing and And have Loren make a round of the gates. Wex with me. And of course, like in this passage, Theon is again thinking of Ned. Here he's calling him Lord Eddard, but he called him Ned other times. As being cold, as Chloe was saying earlier. Theon is still trying to pattern so much of his own ruling on how Ned ruled Winterfell, and obviously he's absolutely failing. Because a lot of it is that Theon only saw that face of Lord Stark.

The Lord Stark that Theon saw was the man out there beheading Gerid, and that's when he got to see Ned ruling. Whereas we have that dichotomy that Bran shows us between Lord Stark versus father in that first Bran chapter. And of course we see in some of the other children's chapters, the Stark children's chapters, how they were taught to rule by Ned. Like Rob was of course invited to be at Ned's side during meetings and to learn how to rule. But Theon might not have necessarily had that opportunity because, you he was like a whole hostage ward thing and all and while he absorbed some of ruling as commanding uh and I think part of the way that he saw commanding um is based on his image of Ned being his monster at Pyke but we don't see any of the other lessons that Ned's kids got from him. Like, get to know your men.

Set aside time to get to know them and be nice to them. And invite them to eat with you no matter what station they are. And Theon just treats them all as small and beneath him. Yeah, and there's also the idea that ned went south and he didn't return and that's kind of like a weak thing and theon seeing that as weak in him as well so i wonder if all those things that theon did see which obviously did not include the lessons that sansa bran aria rob everyone learned uh rickon i guess he didn't really learn anything he's like uh rickon i guess he didn't really learn anything he's like a fetus but oops yeah it's a bummer because we continue to see this like every single thing on every single

one of these pages is just him treating people like shit he thinks of the other ironborn he thinks had stig made it to deepwood mott washa on her way, which I think it kind of shows almost like very Mad King vibes, right? Like that paranoia creeping in and all of his actions that he takes because of that paranoia throughout these pages. Yeah, I love that. You can see the sword of Damocles begin to hang above Theon's head in these chapters. And he's like, what is this feeling? Yeah. And so Theon rouses the people of Winterfell he's like everybody

wake the fuck up. We're gonna all go in the yard and turns out they're all sobbing and Theon's all like I'll give them a reason to sob. That rape that happened when we took Winterfell, that wasn't my fault. I even had the men who did it whipped, because I'm

such a great guy. And obviously, it was Micken and Benfred's own fault and their mouths that got them killed at my command and by me. And like, Chael? I mean, Chael, I had to give someone to the Drowned God god what did they fucking

want from me he's like i've been so gentle with them that's not a good look either like i've treated them so kind they should be thanking me which that actually comes up we'll get to that in a minute he thinks that too but this was a scene constantly a scene the bad show did this scene kind of well uh it was sad very sad it made me very emotional and that's kind of effed up like he just straight up like he's just a brat he's a squid brat he's being a squid brat he's an absolute brat in these oh what what i forgot the name again larvae a baby para larvae yeah he's being such a para larvae here very useful indeed like and it's it totally shows how inexperienced he is or doesn't want to and like theon doesn't understand leadership we can see that so clearly in these chapters.

He thinks it's just ordering people around. And of course, part of what a good leader does is that they take responsibility for their actions. And not just their actions, but the actions of the men and the people, everyone that you command, you are responsible for their well-being. Ned understood that. and that accountability and responsibility was part of what made ned a good leader i mean he failed at the end and a lot of things went to shit but he was trying to watch out for children which

apparently theon doesn't do as we find out throughout these two chapters but definitely very different approaches that's that's a way to put it Chloe different? yeah I'm just trying to give some commentary different approaches definitely

like preferring green to blue like the equivalent it's like if they had the same approach but they don't they literally have very different ones so erzin brings theon to the hunter's gate which is by the kennels and kitchens to see the guards that he has posted there drennan and squint who are dead Drennan Drennan was one of those who had raped Palla, the girl from earlier so she has a name, that's exciting, that doesn't happen for us usually, and

his breaches are down on his corpse Drennan seems to have been killed as he was about to stick it in the woman, as Theon says Squint died by the direwolves tearing him apart, that's what you get that's that's what you get itches yeah i kind of like that his name was squint though we get i don't know it's funny like we get some information about winterfell's defenses uh that there are two walls

and a moat in between them maybe people knew this already don't know. Theon only had the inner walls guarded in case the whole castle turned on him. Why would they ever do that? Nah. Never. And he realizes that for the escape to have happened, the wolves had to have been freed by someone else. Someone else

had to have been helping Osha and the Stark boys. Yeah, bitch. The North remembers. You're just trying to get the fuck out. had to have been helping osha and the stark boys yeah bitch the north remembers you're just trying to get the fuck out erzin mentions that squint ought to have sounded his horn which of course theon gives a play-by-play on why that wouldn't have happened followed by immediate internal regret not having put the wolves down but they really can't try to track the boys in the dark so Theon heads down toward the yard where people are corralled many are half-dressed naked they didn't

have any time to get dressed all of them look guilty to Theon and turns out there are six people missing it's the Starks and remember the Reeds are there too as are hodor and osha of course but the reeds yeah i mean technically in the north these are like mira's the heiress to graywater watch i mean she's going to be the lady of graywater watch next so uh they're not jojen no it's not oh fascinating she's introduced as the heir to house reed so good good for her for her. Good for them. I know, you know why, right? Yes, I do know why. Dornish succession. Anyways.

So that's a big deal, though. That's like a house that is a bannerman to House Stark gone missing with them. Like, okay, so we kind of see what happened. Interestingly enough, Theon has remembered Osha's name and thinks, just like Asha, that their names are similar that she's unnatural which i guess uh david and dan thought that too they're like we can't have two

names that i'd say i mean okay they were right they were right that would have been confusing on television we have like bran benjen brandon robert robin robert bron bran i'm just saying Brandon, Robert, Robin, Robert, Bron, Bran. I'm just saying. Bron and Bran's pretty close. Yeah, it is usually a rule, though, in most television shows not to have characters whose names begin with the same letter. You may as well have just named all your characters Josh or Chad. Anyways, Theon's in luck. None of the horses are missing.

So that means that all of the people that are gone are on foot Theon was confident that he'd soon have them back in his hands Bran and Rickon have fled he told the castle folk watching their eyes who knows where they've gone no one answered they could not have escaped without help, Theon went on, without food, clothing, weapons. He had locked away every sword and axe in Winterfell, but no doubt some had been hidden from him. I'll have the names of all those who aided him, all those who turned a blind eye. The only sound was the wind. Come first light, I mean to bring them back. He hooked his thumbs through his sword belt.

I need huntsmen. Who wants a nice warm wolfskin to see them through the winter? Gage? The cook had always greeted him cheerfully when he returned from the hunt, to ask whether he'd brought anything choice for the table, but he had nothing to say now. Theon walked back the way he had come, searching their faces for the least sign of guilty knowledge.

The wild is no place for a cripple. And Rickon, young as he is, how long will he last out there? Nan, think how frightened he must be. The old woman had nattered at him for ten years, telling her endless stories, but now she gave to him as if he were some stranger. I might have killed every man of you

and given your woman to my soldiers for their pleasure, but instead I protected you. Is this the thanks you offer joseph who groomed his horses farlan who taught him all he knew of hounds barth the brewer's wife who had been his first not one of them would meet his eyes they hate me realized reek stepped close strip off their skins urged, his thick lips glistening. Lord Bolton, he used to say, a naked man has few secrets, but a flayed man's got none. The flayed man was the sigil of House Bolton, Theon knew.

Ages passed. Certain of their lords had gone so far as to cloak themselves in the skins of dead enemies. A number of starts had ended thus. Supposedly, all that had stopped a thousand years ago when the Boltons had bent their knees to Winterfell. Or so they say, but old ways die hard, as well I know. There will be no flaying in the north so long as i rule in winterfell beyond said loudly i am your only protection against the likes of him he wanted to scream he could not be that blatant but perhaps some were clever enough to take the lesson

oh we lost on packing there huh that's a loaded ass passage these theon chapters have so much foreshadowing. They're very dense chapters. We get our first showing of Ramsay here as Reek, right? And we know this because he talks about what Lord Bolton would do. Very heavy-handed with that hinting. This, of course, avalanches us with that House Bolton exposition, and we get this one line from Theon that kills me.

I am your only protection against the likes of him, he wanted to scream. Theon's like the reason why Reek transforms into Ramsay and a bunch of people get hurt though, right? Like the people would have been safe from him if he hadn't taken Winterfell. Yeah, Theon is that fool who's like, yeah, let's bring the Trojan horse inside. It's gonna be great. What could happen? I don't know.

What's the worst that could happen? The worst? Obviously nothing. Literally the worst. Because I will protect you somehow. Oh, man. Yeah, actually the worst, though. The worst could happen.

And I think there's something just interesting about the way this passage is written also the way that theon is trying to get that information out of everyone because it it reminds me of arianne trying all those different tactics when people are visiting her tower trying to get that information and like theon asks them he offers them rewards in exchange for information or going with them on the hunt he threatens them he tries to plea for the safety of the boys like you got to do it for them and somehow he like tries to guilt them into doing it like this is the thanks you give me like dog you just came in here and you like you should have led with that like yeah

like wow that was really you really think you did good and he's like wow they all hate me he realized i'm like this is the time that you found out you catch more flies with honey and you do vinegar quote sansa stark you catch more flies with honey than you do killing them yeah and raping their people i mean actually theoretically that is a way to catch flies if you don't mind that they're dead yeah i mean why would you want a dead fly anyways theon he knows who's in the castle so he begins to order each of them to assist him in his hunt according to their ability farlan who handles the hounds asked why he would want to help hunt his trueborn lords to which theon responds he is now farland's

true-born lord oh my god farland agrees but his eyes just like blaze with defiance and then theon decides that maester lewin who knows nothing of hunting will help in the hunt and then one of the phrase is like i want to help hunt him i want to help hunt them of course they do okay of course of course you fucking psychopaths i do it doesn't even matter which one it is i honestly don't know which one it is yeah i mean one of them is like less bad than the other but that's true this must be little walder probably yeah i like how it does pull the sheet off of that right like yes the frays were always bad they weren't going to be that much different than the rest of the frays like it wasn't like there's all of a sudden these wonder frays like every fray and every fucking story that you hear is just not usually good well not usually

herwin right herwin fray and oliver that's it though and there was like one more and roslyn seems like okay yeah that's true. I'll give those three, but that's it. Like Theon wasn't the baddest of bad guys is what we're about to learn, right? Like we're going to show this now by having Ramsey on the page. Like George is like, aha. So yes, he's awful. But have you tried Ramsey?

Yeah, it's like, wait, did Theon? Are we supposed to say that theon had a point like yes he wasn't as bad as that other guy like like here's the point and now it's made oh my god which is literally what theon is doing he's like i'm gonna put black lauren in charge of winterfell right now and uh this is gonna make everyone hope for my success yeah like realistically that that that makes them hate you more like that's you did the wrong thing just saying i mean yeah it's like he's like comparing himself to what black lord and ramsey like he's literally doing the least here okay he's doing the bare fucking minimum wants cookies he's out there like i'm a regular like you know

baylor the blaster like egg on the conqueror you know look at me i'm iron king whore there like i'm a regular like you know baylor the blessed or like egg on the conqueror you know look at me i'm iron king whore out here i'm the shit and it's like no you're not you're not he's like trying to do the absolute minimum anyway they're gonna go on this hunt everyone's decked out and i don't know gear and they're going to the hunter's gate which is the gate that they escaped from and theon now thinks of how he wants to save brand with an arrow so being he's not gonna have to take brand's life with one i just want to call out how in the last chapter or the last episode theon's all like remembering how he saved brandon arrow and then he what tries to strike the drink from that one Dutain.

I forgot his name now. And accidentally kills him. So, you know, what if Rob was right? Jesus Christ! That's where you were taking that one. But if Rob was right, that was a risky-ass move, Theon. And it paid off, I guess, there. But the rest of these risky-ass moves do not.

Well, it pays off I guess there but the rest of these risky ass moves do not well it pays off especially now here because you know he's just whining about how Rob didn't trust me and I saved Fran's life like Theon any decent person would have done that you had a weapon and you knew what was right or wrong in this situation you're not like fucking buddha sit down we see Theon think the huge mastiffs sniffing at the back of their hunt might be helpful in a fight against dire wolves especially with all of the other dogs around which is like no theon those aren't you don't get to use them yeah yeah i mean there's that um portends of course that reversal later on in theon's storyline. Though it also makes me think of how even this early in the story,

we're getting that set up for a fight between dogs and wolves, because apparently in... Joanna Robinson from Vanity Fair did that analysis of the lion and the rose episode, that script that George R.R. Martin wrote. And there was a note from George R.R. Martin that like, hey, we're going to like this set up with the wolves because it's foreshadowing of how like we're gonna have a huge fight between hounds and wolves later on so here's that foreshadowing within the books but maybe they were saying he was saying that about a hound and a wolf fighting i guess but like the hound he would lose fighting. I guess, but like, the hound.

He would lose against all those wolves, Chloe. No, like, a symbolic wolf. Like, maybe it's him and, I don't know, John or Sansa. I'm trying to do tinfoil. You never let me do tinfoil. You always do the tinfoil.

I'm sorry, you do the tinfoil. No, it's over now. The tinfoil's ruined. I'mfoil i'm sorry you do the no it's over now the tinfoil's ruined i'm sorry we've crinkled it all up theon wonders if they headed toward sir roderick who should be heading to torrens square per theon's plan but the path leads north northwest it makes theon wonder if they could be heading towards deepwood where asha is he thinks that he would rather have the boys dead he thinks it's better to be seen as cruel than foolish yeah no dion it's literally not none of this is right like you put black lauren in charge which makes the people distrust him more and it's it's all i can think of to think it's better to rule through love than fear very sansa you know just here's the mind killer man it's sansa it's ned like because i think that

people see that as one of the main arguments of a song of ice and fire especially with the consequences that come from that and maybe it's because i just recently finished um listening to what was it eddard 12 from not a cast and have jeff and emmett speaking into my ear right now but that that idea that a lot of people took away from the storyline that ned was foolish for for what he did and we're seeing that that's wrong because theon's thinking that and look at what fucking happens to him apparently that wasn't the right play either yeah agreed maester lewin then asked theon like could you please be merciful towards bran and rickon they are after your foster brothers. He uses the term foster brothers. And Theon says

that the only Stark that was ever brotherly towards me is Rob. And besides, I guess, like, even though internally we know that he's thinking that he would rather Bran and Rickon be dead for some fucking reason. They're more valuable to him alive than dead anyway. And

Lewyn tries to push his luck a little more. He's like, also, the Reeds, you know, they're more valuable to him alive than dead anyway. And Lewin tries to push his luck a little more. He's like, also, the Reeds, you know, they're pretty important too. Please keep them alive. Also, you know, their father, Hallen, holds a pretty strategic position down in Moat Cailin. Yeah, and don't get me started on his wife, Gianna. Yeah, Gianna. Also strategic. Strategic. But Theon, I love that theon's like i didn't even

think about that i'm like why did you know what else did you not think about like everything apparently in this whole plan and he hadn't thought about the reeds at all strategically he just like looked at mira every now and then and wondered whether or not she was a virgin oh stay away from her yeah fuck away from my daughter. Me holding a knife. But actually though, actually though, Mira, I wonder if Mira probably defended herself. Anyway, Luan then

he really, he's really trying to go for all of it and he's like, also Hodor? Please spare Hodor? He doesn't know what he's doing. He's like, sure, fine, fine, we'll spare Hodor also as long as he doesn't try to fight back. He's like, but don't you dare ask about Osha.

Yeah, she's a woman, first off. She's a woman. She sounds like my fucking sister. And I hate my sister. No, he doesn't say that. But Luwin's like, alright, fine. He's like, I did the most that I could, and I guess Luwin has no personal ties to Osha anyway. Also, like, Theon,

I hate my sister. Theon's dick. But... Theon's dick. So Luin of course gives in. He's like, okay, good. You did enough. Thank you for your mercy. There's this great passage. Mercy, thought Theon

as Luin dropped back. There's a bloody trap. Too much and they call you weak. Too little and you're monstrous. Yet, the maester had given him good counsel, he knew. His father thought only in terms of conquest, but what good was it to take his kingdom if you could not hold it? Force and fear could only carry you so far.

A pity Ned Stark had taken his daughters south. Elsewise, Theon could have tightened his grip on Winterfell by marrying one of them. Sansa was a pretty little thing, too, and by now likely even ripe for bedding. She was a thousand leagues away in the clutches of the Lannisters. A shame. So something interesting, as interesting as gross as it is here. God, first off, yeah, Theon, this, the mirror thing, you gotta not. You gotta just not.

But... He has to stop on an actual in an intellectual level uh this is interesting because this is literally what happens but with ramsey and aria yes exactly it's what happens with ramsey and aria and of course like what the unrecognized is about sansa is what everyone else in the kingdom has fucking recognized about Sansa. It's really upsetting because it's like leave her pussy alone. Indeed. Leave her pussy and her claim alone. Also like you really want to root for Theon right through all

of this but he says this stuff and he's like it's like look at how he treats Wex and those in his service like even how he treats Reek like and uses his counsel as like aha like okay whatever and doesn't really open his eyes about it. I see a lot of and even how he treats Reek, like, and uses his counsel as like, aha, like, okay, whatever, and doesn't really open his eyes about it. I see a lot of, and maybe it's this whole duality thing, but there's a lot of beauty in the beast in Theon, in that he's the beast. He's a cursed prince,

right? He's been cursed. He used to treat people like shit, and he wasn't, you know, the best of people. And he gets a curse placed on him, and Winterfell is basically frozen in time because of him. And he's the ghost of Winterfell, and he, you know, has to wander around until the curse is lifted. Yeah, I love that comparison. And I think it's making me think now of Ramsay slash Reek as the evil... not evil. now of uh ramsay slash reek as as the evil not evil it's making me think of reek slash ramsay as the witch who comes first in disguise yeah and then reveals herself yeah and and curses theon except turns out the witch is also bad yeah absolutely a mix of that and like a good mix of gaston like in a yeah big dash of psycho I'm also feeling when you said that

how we're like rooting for Theon to like come to his fucking senses and stop I realize we're Asha we are all Asha who's like Theon you're an idiot please stop right like my son yeah my baby brother but I want to stop being an asshole

anyway so then they find the carcass of a young elk that's clearly been eaten by wolves but interestingly no meat has been taken for the humans they can tell there was no butchering and then then questions like are we on the right trail because that's fucking dumb they should have taken some steaks from this elk for the trip. And then by the river, Wex makes an observation. They're about to follow a trail that the wolves may have taken. But Wex is like, wait, wait, wait, hold on. There's only paw prints here on the side of the river. And by this, I mean the wax is pointing at these things and hodor and the humans if they had emerged from the river they would have left footprints because hodor is fucking big and heavy especially with bran on his back so that means that the wolves and the humans

have split up for a bit leading them all astray yeah really smart tactic and it's interesting because in times of need the starks sending their wolves away think of aria with uh nemeria of course and telling her she has to go and hitting her with rocks to get her to leave and of course probably the time sansa needed her wolf most unfortunately she loses her wolf uh rob with gray wind not bringing gray wind and how he really obviously should have had him there. So interesting that the times that the Starks need them and sending them away. Theon makes another threat. It's about being led astray and if it was intentional.

But really, we know Theon's just pissed because he got outsmarted by a seven-year-old and a three-year-old and, oh, you know, two women. That's pretty insulting to him. Yeah, it is. And Hodor a very insulting yes eventually they must meet back up so their search party splits up to continue on one path and find where the departure happened a little farther theon told himself past that oak over that rise past the next bend of the stream we'll find something there he pressed on long after he knew he should turn back a growing sense of anxiety gnawing at his belly a this passage

reminds me of if you give a mouse a cookie keeps just trying to keep going but of course like b this entire i love this one line because i feel like it's theon's entire storyline in a clash of kings encapsulated just pushing too far when you could just turn back right and like these two chapters are exactly that it's watching theon press on when he should just turn back and he's like hoping to find a reward or something at the end or i don't know people to not hate him and i'm like i don't know why you would think this path leads there he's looking for love familial love but love is a poison it'll kill you all the same still it's in the same book and yeah i mean tyrian's chapter there as well in this book

likely juxtaposed with theons as well and i just love watching this lead-up happen next to this river because sure it's a small river it's called like fucking i don't know acorn water or is the name of this river i think or it's it's close by to it they're in the wolf's wood and it's just a perfect setting for what's happening in theon storyline because i think that this is theon crossing the Rubicon. It's his point of no return. While he doesn't cross this actual river, he does so metaphorically. Because if you've heard that phrase, to cross the Rubicon, you know, you probably have heard it. And if you're unfamiliar, it talks about when Julius Caesar crossed that Rubicon River from what was at the time Gaul into Italy on his way into Rome.

And he knowingly broke the law, led to a whole civil war. But in the end, like, Caesar won. He became the dictator over all of Rome and Theon, in many ways, is not nearly as successful as Caesar, who I guess, again, sure, things don't end super well for Julius Caesar either, but whatever.

Whatever. It's just good for a time. And the story here, though, like, with Theon has us setting setting it's been setting all of this up since the previous book to understand that like killing children is bad it's like absolutely damning for you and so for theon to decide to kill those miller's boys and their mother he's threatening his soul and he's burning his bridges with winterfell and crossing that rubicon all because he was afraid to appear weak yeah once more like

like we said why should the ironborn follow you why should the north follow you theon latecomer none of these people should follow you like you haven't earned it and it's very damning it's past the point of no return like it reminds me in that way of quentin's plot with the whole turning back thing and like we should go back we should go back every part of this plot is saying Theon turn back and he doesn't like Theon you're not meant for this but he won't they are close to giving up on finding the kids and it's suggested the wolves may have swam upstream which of course would be crazy for wolves to do for a long time a human if being hunted could do it but these time. A human, if being hunted, could do it. But these are dire wolves.

Which, also that line, a human could do it if hunted. Yeah. Ramsey. But also, there's that. Also, these could be wolves with a human inside of them-ish. Hmm. Hmm. Maybe that's where Ned Stark is.

Well, no. Ned Stark's in a pigeon. Oh, Little Pigeon! A river. Yes, he's in Little Pigeon, remember? Knew it. He's gonna team up with Barristan. That's the hammer and the anvil.

Oh my god, he teams up with Barristan. Ugh, so Barristan doesn't go back to Westeros with Aegon. No, he doesn't. He goes back with Little Pigeon, aka Ned. Oh my god, and then they retake the throne brilliant and then ned simultaneously wargs into a flock of pigeons and then it's the scene from the birds that i've never actually watched anyways beyond regrets not skinning the wolves uh but but at this time he fears the starks reaching a village more than anything

if they reach a village the people of the north would never deny ned stark's sons rob's brothers they'd have mounts to speed them on their way food men would fight for the honor of protecting them the whole bloody north would rally around them and of course we know he's not wrong look at the manderleys playing the long game or the veil with sansa in the winds of winter eventually i mean look at fake aria that we're gonna get to the north yeah definitely remembers stan is trying to set john up even he's like i have a stark. Yeah. I mean, Theon's not wrong. He is apt in understanding that part of the politicking.

Yeah. If nothing else. And then we get some exposition about the Freys, who are, I guess, the enemies of the Reeds. Because the Freys say some really mean shit about the Kravikmen. We won't find them, the Frey boy said stubbornly. Not so long as the Frog-Eaters are with them. Mudmen are the critic men we won't find them the free boy said stubbornly not

so long as the frog eaters are with them mud men are sneaks they won't fight like decent folks they skulk and use poison arrows you never see them but they see you those who go into the bogs after them get lost never come out their houses move Even the castles like Greywater watch. He glanced nervously at greenery that encircled them on all sides. They might be out there right now, listening to everything we say. Arlen laughed to show what he thought of that notion. My dogs would smell anything in them bushes. Be all over them before you could break wind, boy. Frog eaters don't smell like men, Frey insisted. They have a boggy stink like frogs and trees and scummy water. Moss grows under their arms in place of hair,

and they can live with nothing to eat but mud and breathe swamp water. Theon was about to tell him what he ought to do with his wet nurse's fable when Maester Luwin spoke up. The histories say the Kranag men grew close to the children of the forest in the days when the greenseers tried to bring the hammer of the waters down upon the neck. It may be that they have secret knowledge. Suddenly, the woods seemed a deal darker than it had a moment before, as if a cloud had passed before the sun. It was one thing to have some fool boy spouting folly, but maesters were supposed to be wise. I love the parallels between the Dornish and the Cranachmen

because it kind of sounds a little bit how Westeros views the Dornish as well, right? And I really think it's a great little knowledge drop from Luin. The reeds pretty much are hinted at being descended from the Marsh Kings, right? The Cranachmen are supposed to be descended from that king. And I also, it's interesting because Lewin doesn't condone heresy usually, right? Like he's very anti-magic. And here he is talking about the children of the forest and the Cranachmen mating pretty much. So what's the truth, Lewin?

I'm pretty sure he's spouting stories he usually warns against just to like buy time right i think there's that yeah and i mean lewin doesn't believe in them but that doesn't mean he didn't study them like i'm sure there's a part of them that maybe like still kind of hoped right so of course he would know all of these these magical stories about the Children of the Force and the Craning Men. They return to the stream and they go to hunt for a while until it begins to get dark again, which means they've just been out here all day. If it's dark outside, this is going to be a fruitless hunt, as well as a very dangerous one. But Theon doesn't want to go back to Winterfell with nothing to show for it,

because he's going to feel like a fool. And he's especially scared that if something like that happens, his father and Asha will laugh at him. Which, of course, is just like Quentyn, fearing Doran's disapproval. Yes, there's a lot of Quentyn in these chapters. I'm so glad that you're seeing it too. His path was starting to lead darker before he died as well, right? With Pentos. So, I mean, it's a similar kind of work there. Yeah, it definitely is and like i don't know this entire chapter is so interesting in the context also of how theon's story ends

in dance and we're obviously going to talk about what happens in dance um and we're going to talk about this here because like this is a reread so you already know what happens but like theon gets to be the hunter here tracking the prisoners who have escaped from Winterfell, fleeing to safety. But later on in Dance, he becomes the hunted as part of Ramsay's games, but also he finds himself in this exact position as well at the end of the story. He's escaped Winterfell with Jane Poole

and must make their way to safety, running from some other cruel young lord who's styled himself the ruler of winterfell so that theon can save a quote-unquote stark yeah complete flip complete 180 but yeah so this reek guy has some interesting stuff to say about you know this reek guy yeah about how the starks are probably heading to the umbers but first they need to stay the night somewhere, like this old mill right here. So Theon had slept with the miller's wife, perhaps more than once,

and Reek insists that he has a feeling the boys might be here, wink wink, wink wink, with his lips that look like worms fucking, which is the same way Joffrey was described, we've talked about before. Away from the rest, Reek shows Theon he knows a silver wolf's head brooch Theon sends the rest of the men away and tells him he will follow and Lewyn calls back a reminder for mercy Theon had promised him Theon replies mercy was for before

he had been angry it is better to be feared than laughed at such Such Tywin Lannister vibes. Yeah, very much so. I know we had those Aerys vibes and now those Tywin vibes. Just bad ruler vibes, I guess. This is a great place to talk kind of about how Theon got this from his dad. Balin was the older brother akin to Robert in this situation who

treated Victarion kind of similarly. We get that when we hear that what's that passage that the victorian grayjoy mistrusted laughter the sound of it always left him with the uneasy feeling he was the butt of some jp he didn't understand in fact victorian kind of has a lot of status parallels there's even like that whole passage where he talks about how balin was a great man but i will do what he could not and he you know is traveling with a red priest now so a lot going on there both of these guys fought for their older

brothers in war and felt cast down by their older brothers so this is kind of the environment Theon Stott comes from and he's trying to impress his dad as we know and trying to really find his place he thinks this is the right way to do that but it's not too bad is that yeah it's not and plus his dad dies anyway what was exactly what's the point there was a point but i mean obviously there was a point beyond overcompensating and trying so hard to prove himself as an ironborn with a goalpost that he's never going to be able to catch. But he took the wrong lesson away, which is that it is better to be feared than laughed at because he was just so desperate for that power.

And when he couldn't find the love that he desired from Winterfell, we see that progression throughout this chapter, really. He's all like, man, they should be fucking grateful. I was so good to them. He's looking for love in the wrong ocean every time. Yeah. And he just gives it up at the end. He's like, ah, fuck love. I will inspire fear then.

Well, let's get our lightning round before we get to Theon 5. Yep. Before we have the rest of this mess to continue with. But John 6. John faces a moral crisis. Kill or kiss. He proves himself to be Ned Stark's blood after all. Sansa 4, Sansa becomes a woman

and spends a lot of time with some super drunk quote-unquote role models. John 7, Corrin passes his judgment on John. And then Bran teaches John to see in a dream. A ranger sacrifices himself to get others to safety. Tyrion learns Sansa's brothers have died. Cersei tries to punish Tyrion for his scheming against her. Catelyn mourns the loss of her sons.

Kept company by Brienne of tarth she later talks to captive jamie lannister and calls upon brian's sword that's interesting we learned about brandon rickens quote-unquote deaths yeah right right there i love watching like from a distance like this theon five having taken what is not rightfully his get out of there wex wakes theon and reek announcing a visitor quietly asha grayjoy after discussing stylistic differences in conquering lands that are not theirs theon refuses to leave winterfell and once asha leaves he pays reek to find men to defend his new castle the sky was a gloom of cloud, the woods dead and frozen. Roots grabbed at

Theon's feet as he ran, and bare branches lashed his face, leaving thin stripes of blood across his cheeks. He crashed through, heedless, breathless, icicles flying to pieces before him. Mercy, he sobbed. From behind came a shuddering howl that curdled

his blood. Mercy, mercy! When he glanced back over his shoulder, he saw them coming. Great wolves, the size of horses, with the heads of small children. Oh, mercy, mercy! Blood dripped from their mouths, pitch as black, burning holes in the snow where it fell. Every stride brought them closer. Theon tried to run faster, but his legs would not obey. The trees all had faces, and they were laughing at him, laughing. And the howl came again. He could smell the hot breath of the

beasts behind him, a stink of brimstone and corruption. They're dead, dead, I saw them killed, he tried to shout. I saw their heads dipped in tar but when he opened his mouth only a moan emerged and then something touched him and he rolled shouting wow this chapter starts like a horror film it does holy crap this is horrific like i love it but there's so much and this dream is like an exact immediate like this is literally what happens to him all of this happens like later like this is just him running in the woods and just holy crap like we're gonna come back to this for sure yeah also that is it's just such a perfect portrayal of like being chased in a dream right you can just feel them and like suddenly you're like fuck i can't run who knows why that

ever happens in dreams i'm sure someone has an actual explanation he is literally drowning in guilt right now in his dreams like his subconscious is just burying him well because he said he would give mercy and he's pleading like literally the last chapter ends it with him being like no they don't get mercy and now he wants it for himself yes he's begging for it he wakes up stumbling for his dagger to wax mute with a candle in his room reek accompanies wax and tells theon his sisters arrived in a manner of speaking theon pushed off the blankets the fire had burned down to embers wax hot water he could not let asha see him disheveled and soak the sweat. Wolves with children's faces. He shivered.

Closed the shutters. The bedchamber felt as cold as the dream forest had been. Oh, so the symbolism. Wolves with children's faces. Is that not the same image that Melisandre sees for Bran as well? I think so, yes. It's got some interesting abilities in this chapter. Yeah, especially when we just think about

how Bran taught Jon how to see in his last little dream with him. And how Theon keeps hearing things in the wind and stuff. Anyway, we learn that Theon's been actually having a bunch of these dreams and nightmares and cold sweats for days. This was never what I wanted, he told them

as he worked. They gave me no choice. The corpses made no answer, but only grew colder and heavier. As they do. It goes from they shouldn't have made me angry to they gave me no choice. Mercy. This isn't what I wanted. It's sad.

It's terrifying and sad. The night before he dreamt of fucking the miller's wife again i guess and this time she has teeth in her vagina and her mouth both ends and she's gnawing off his neck and his manhood turns out theon had ordered her executed yeah she begged for mercy as he watched her die. Like, this is a lot a bit fucked up. Like, no one ever mentions these dreams, I feel like. They do, but not a lot of people

focus on these dreams, and these are some fucked up dreams. Like, she has teeth in her vag. Like, what is happening in this guilty dream? Oh. I'm about to go off about what's happening in this guilty dream. We're about to talk about vagina dentata take it away babe welcome to girls gone canon yes so of course like this is a

horrifying idea but like obviously it's appeared in other places there's that movie teeth but which of course comes after comes out after a clash of kings but martin is still isn't the first person to channel this idea or this horror because the idea of vaginal teeth actually manifests in several cultures in their mythology and their stories like all around the world and for it to be such a pervasive idea shows us something there's something in the human psyche like that the vagina dentata represents and inspires. And a lot of people talk about how it's that fear, of course, of female sexuality, and how that could lead to castration. There are, of course, a lot of other Freudian or other even psychological readings of it that have to do with that fear of the return to the mother, that which is represented by the earth and the

return to the womb. but i think that there's something really interesting here you know if there it is the mother you know there's a miller's wife she is a mom but especially with theon's dream having this vagina dentata appear and and where his storyline goes because again he's having some interesting dreams in this chapter this isn't even like the last one this isn't the only one and again the vagina dintata comes with that threat of castration and as we all know this is a big thing that happens in theon's storyline where he has a bunch of body parts cut off including especially his penis. Yeah. Little on the nose.

Right? Or on the... Anyways, so... Yeah, it's absolutely pretending it. Yeah. Uncomfortable. Wax returns from making water, and Theon is like,

I'm gonna take my goddamn time, because Asha sure did. He's about to wear finery to see Asha when he remembers she values blades. His own sweet suckling babe, he dons. And he dons his own crown, a band of cold iron slim as a finger, set with heavy chunks of black diamond and nuggets of gold. It was misshapen and ugly, but there was no help for that. Micken lay buried in the lick yard,

and the new smith was available of little more than nails and horseshoes. A false crown for a false prince. Truly. Oh, I'm gonna hot take it. Kind of sounds like a cool crown. Ew. Sounds interesting. I don't know about all that.

I don't know, sounds sculptural. Theon exits and he's joined by guards, because turns out now all of Winterfell wants him dead. Would you believe that that was the result of his choice? Who would guess? Upon returning back from this hunt

and after everything that happens, which we're going to find out in like a second, Gelmar died from an accident, then Agar and Gainer. Obviously these crimes had to go and be punished and Theon's like, you know Fraulein's as good a suspect as any and proclaims him guilty. Theon

sat in judgment, called him guilty and condemned him to death. Even that went sour. As he knelt to the block, the kennel master said, My lord Eddard always did his own killings. Theon had to take the axe himself or look like a weakling. His hands were sweating.

His palms were sweaty. Mom's spaghetti. So the shaft twisted in his grip as he swung and the first blow landed between Farland's shoulders. I'm sorry, Farland did not deserve that disrespect, but I did it anyway. I could not resist. It took three more cuts to hack through all that bone and muscle and sever the head from the body and afterward he was sick remembering all the times they'd sat over a cup of mead talking of hounds and hunting i had no choice he wanted to scream at the corpse the iron board

can't keep secrets they had to die and someone had to take the blame for it he only wished he had killed him cleaner ned stark had never needed more than a single blow to take a man's head yeah so he's like saying farland's taking the fall so that the northerners will hate him and see theon as good which is kind of fucked right and he killed the cattle master and then he ends up cursed with lying with the dogs he does i mean this is very like cursed prince for sure oh absolutely he's building his own bed in all of this like theon just keeps thinking that he has no choice like he says here i had no choice well he doesn't say it he's screaming it inside he keeps thinking throughout like these chapters i had to do i had to do x thing that person made me do y thing I was forced to do it and like that's how

you can see that Theon's a para larvae he's very immature he's not a leader he has no sense of responsibility because of course he has a choice like this isn't Brienne's no chance and no choice I mean Brienne kind of did have a choice but she's the kind of person who sees that lack of choice in a different way than Theon, right? Because like, choices have consequences, and Theon just liked the other consequences of not doing these things less, and he chose cruelty, because he would rather be seen as cruel and strong than weak. like how quentin would rather die as a quote-unquote hero and you know i guess be dead then go home uh empty-handed and disappointing the father that he never grew up with just like theon after finally and so the killings stop and black lauren says hey maybe you should you know take off for a little bit right like? Like, leave, get out of here.

You can't trust anyone here anymore. Nobody likes you. Yeah, as Jeff says, get the hell out of Dodge. I still don't know what that means. You just get out of the way of things. Sure. Theon is insistent that he is the Prince of Winterfell, and so he blames Asha for taking too long that she wants his seat. Theon is astounded

by how few men she came with. Asha came with just 20 good men. We gotta get you out of here. We gotta just send It's not my fault. It's not my fault. I had no choice, Chloe.

They made me do it. Also, it's's like nobody wants this seat right like theon no one's coming to take it from you for themselves the only people coming to take it are coming to take it for starts like let the starks live in their ancestral home nobody wants this place like leave it be yeah literally if he had just like left and was like oh this was a bad idea i think everyone would have been like that theon grayjoy i think so they would have been like what an asshole but like i don't know if anything would have really they always said that anyways i mean that's true they were just like turns out we were right everyone he's still an asshole. Yep. After some barbs between the two siblings about envy, Asha

asks Theon, which head upon Winterfell, which head on a spike gave you the bigger fight? Was it the cripple or the babe? Got him. Because turns out these are the heads of children. Now you're getting an idea who these heads are. Because we're gonna read

I really want to read this passage aloud because i find it sad heartbreaking be sad i'm i sad we're here we we've gone through a lot of emotions now and it's time for us to get sad again as we do here i can't believe he killed the starts oh my god shut up i'm so upset your fire okay I deserve that Theon could feel the blood rushing to his face he took no joy from those heads no more than he had

in displaying the headless bodies of the children before the castle old Nan stood with her soft toothless mouth opening and closing soundlessly, and Farland threw himself at Theon, snarling like one of his hounds. Urzin and Cadwell had to beat him senseless with the butts of their spears. How did I come to this? He remembered thinking as he stood over the fly-speckled bodies. Only Maester Luwin had the stomach to come near. Stonefaced, the small gray man had begged leave to sew the boys' heads back onto their shoulders

so they might be laid in the crypts below with the other Stark dead. Why would you read that? why would you read that it's just i this is one of those lines that gets me in those books like that scene of old nan it just breaks my heart just just the image of old nan like we love her all right and just the image of it doesn't matter how annoying she was she was old man yeah she was old man she cared for them they grew up with her and she's just the the idea that she loved these boys she's taking care of generations of them exactly she loves this family and she's just there like staring at these poor little babes that she cared for and she's just so sad she's just opening her mouth unable

to say anything they couldn't protect them. Yeah, she can't say anything about it. That's how hurt she is. And Maester Luwin just trying to hold everything together here. Sad dad. Sad for all these boys that he's raised and helped birth. At least he gets to know that they live. Yeah.

That's the one thing. He doesn't get a happy ending, but he gets to know that they they live yeah that's the one thing you know he gets a he doesn't get a happy ending but he gets closure theon refuses to let the bodies rest in the crypts with the starks the bodies are burned beyond recognition anyway not that they be recognized but that's i think that's for a reason because he knows that they aren't them obviously the Miller's boys yeah at least Theon has this measure of respect I think for them he's too it's that or it's fear could be both could be both it reminds me a lot of how Tyrion's like let them think I'm the villain you know like fine I'll be the villain I'll play the villain similar to that in these scenes that Theon's at the point of you know no return here he's like fine i'm the villain yeah exactly but also there's a i'm also thinking of the mother in rapunzel now but um entangled entangled um it also ties back to that larger story this idea of

bodies being burned beyond recognition and someone popping back in the story like here we know like brandon rick and survive and you know the identity of agon and his veracity oh can you hear that yeah they're coming for theon grayjoy they're going for theon grayjoy um but the veracity of like who he is is up in the air but people were picking up on that early on like even after just book one maybe because they had read part of book two but i think as early as even before book two was out people were asking hey is that going to come into play with agon's face being smashed beyond recognition this is a thing yeah and it's interesting to think like bodies being burnt too because that's such a stem for so much tinfoil in the community of like rhaegar being alive or you know like crap like that so interesting uh though rhaegar's body was or well he was burned after yeah that's true george i don't know i had a better point but

oh were you thinking quentin yes and then still being alive the sirens threw me off but i was thinking oh yeah so theon retorts at asha that the boys brought their fate upon themselves and asha says as do we all little brother asha is the audience is asha in this chapter asha is so wise she is i feel you girl girl. I'm wise, too. She- Oh my god. Are you arguing with me? No, I'm not. I just love that you said that. We're just both here, like, laughing, playing with our hair. Asha turns out this brought Theon only ten men.

Because obviously she needs the other ten to get her back. And Theon's like, let's go talk somewhere privately. I regret coming to this fucking hall because I'm feeling guilty and guilty and guilty I'm feeling guilty and everyone's like looking at me it's a lot

in Ned Stark's solar Theon admits Dagmar lost Torrin's square and Ash is like yes what, what did you expect? Roderick had the upper hand. He knows the land. And on land, they can't really stand a mounted charge, but at least Dagmar is alive still, she reveals,

but that pisses Theon off. He realizes she knows more than he does about this, and just gets more and more mad. You mad, you mad. The north is rising against theon to no one's surprise rodrick is coming back he's uh also coming with leobald tallheart whom you may remember as benfred's uncle from last episode and he used to hold towards square but also lord manderley and numbers are trying to come too that's the thing is like ironborn their reavings are always and they're like ratings and reavings and trying to

conquer is never focused enough to really make a huge impact especially on a land so vast as the north i feel like like you can take one place but i mean they'll just flee to another keep and they'll come at you you know harder and stronger because what is dead may never die yeah it's fascinating because you actually have a slight chance you know with the Greyjoys when you play the Game of Thrones board Game of Thrones

because you start out with like the little cardboard sword piece but turns out this is not how it works well you can do that CK2 too when I play CK2 it's harder to play as the ironborn oh i'm saying it's not in the game of thrones board game of thrones that's weird because you have that that one uh attack priority thing or i forgot what the exact mechanic behind it is but yeah oh well they apparently have it at ice and fire con would you believe we'll play it this year at ice and fire

con together perhaps we shall theon is freaking out he like, how can Asha only spare me 10 men? How am I going to hold all this with only 10 more men? And Asha's like, should have thought of that earlier, ding dong. I like how she's bad, Janet. Yeah, she's like, if you couldn't hold them with however much you had. Oh my god. Yeah, literally, though, like all of them told him this would not work. His dad, Asha.

He did this all on his own because he wanted to bring a prize home to daddy and he should have just, like, sat there and ate his cold green beans. You know? Yeah. He should have showed some initiative, heated the fucking stove and heated up his green beans if he was, you know, that's a good, hard-working way of doing it.

Yeah, the old way. The old way. Asha, yeah, yeah she's like the smart thing that you should have done was to do it the way the ironborn do it and not try and hold this castle that's some fucking landed shit she's like you should take in the boys as hostages after raising this castle just leave it and we put this in exchange here because i thought it was amazing your prize will be the doom of you krakens rise from the sea theon or did you forget that during your years among the wolves our strength is in our long ships my wooden piss pot sits close enough to the sea for supplies and fresh men to reach me whenever they are needful. But Winterfell is hundreds of leagues inland, ringed by woods,

hills, and hostile holdfests and castles. And every man in a thousand leagues is your enemy now. Make no mistake. You made certain of that when you mounted those heads on your gatehouse. Asha shook her head. How could you be such a bloody fool? Children! They defied me, he shouted in her face, and it was blood for blood besides two sons of Eddard Stark to pay for Roderick and Meryn. The words tumbled out heedlessly, but Theon knew at once that his father would approve. I've laid my brother's ghosts to rest. Our brothers, Asher reminded him, with a half smile that suggested she took his talk of vengeance well salted. Did you bring their ghosts from Pyke, brother? And here I thought they

haunted only father. When has a maid ever understood a man's need for revenge? Even if his father did not appreciate the gift of Winterfell, he must approve of Theon avenging his brothers. That's a reach. Asha snorted back a laugh. This Sir Roderick may well feel the same manly need. Did you think of that? You are the blood of my blood, Theon, whatever else you may be. For the sake of the mother who bore us both, return to Deepwood Mott with me.

Put Winterfell to the torch and fall back while you still can. No. Theon adjusted his crown. I took this castle and I mean to hold it. You did this. What a good dialogue, though. Oh, God. It's a great dialogue.

I was like, I could just take some parts out of it. Or we could just put the whole thing in here. No, we're doing it live. Kinda. It's so good. There's so much in here like the whole thing about about uh laying the ghosts of his brothers to rest and how how uh balon's still holding on to that that's such a doran thing for for uh balon to still be holding on to that but also i don't know the way that he just like grabs onto that obviously that's not why theon's doing it but the idea that the words tumbled out heedlessly and he just felt that they were right

that reminds me of some of the language from sansa's lies in her chapters when she's like when she finds the right one and she's like i was just gonna say yeah like the tear is good yes the tear is good yes that's what i was thinking very hardcore i was thinking about how when she lies and she's like yes a tear is good like they'll they'll like a tear and he thinks like yes father would like that like trying to cover his own ass from everything he just did too yeah exactly and i think it's interesting also that theon's all like when has a maid ever understood a man's need for revenge because we see it throughout a song of ice and fire aria is someone who absolutely craves revenge yeah cersei Cersei we see it a lot throughout the storyline Erienne Liza exactly

so many many times Theon in fact would you believe women crave revenge same as men do it's just that Asha is the only one here who's like holding everything fucking together yeah and it's also a great nod when he's like

a maid because obviously Asha's not a maid she's made it very clear that she is not a maid she has said it many times and that's true he's out here like a maid so he's also being kind of patronizing to her about her gender in this moment obviously because it's the only thing he has to lash out with yeah that's true it's the only thing that he saw about her when he first met her again. Yeah. And so as Asha leaves, she tells him of his folly and insults his crown. It's an ugly crown. You're wrong.

I just love that. Like, that's how she's like, your crown's ugly too. The mic dropped. Sibling his fuck again. Yes. He regrets not joining her when he watches her leave and reek sidles up beside him he's uneasy with reek still being alive and knowing so much like we said earlier it's just honestly fascinating to me how every time theon comes across an inconvenience he's just like oh i should have

killed them earlier yeah that's just like what you do you know it's just it it's one of those, like, when you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Yeah. Reek plants the seed in Theon that what Asha did wasn't right and that Theon will need more men. And so he says, give me some coin and a horse, I'll come back with 100, 200 more men.

And he was, of course, born in the north and he knows many people. Oh, why would he ever know such a thing maybe because he's ramsay snow maybe maybe oh theon agrees to this and he gives reek pala which is so fucked up well if he returns with everything which i guess by the time reek comes back it's ramsay he doesn't need anyone to give him shit but like paula right like you're just gonna give a woman again beyond giving a woman away who's not his to give first off like lords can make matches and everything but this isn't like you don't own her there's that but also

paula's the one who was raped by those two men when they came to sack winterfell like he's just like has she not suffered enough like how why is he not protecting his people exactly that's what a lord does that's the feudal contract and theon has broken it constantly throughout this like no wonder they don't see you as their lord you have done nothing to protect them that's your one you had one job and all you've done is like fuck it up So Reek leaves with a bunch of stark silver, and Theon is like, I'm never gonna see Reek again, am I? And honestly, that would have been better for him. This is literally the worst.

I'm so anxious right now. I'm, like, tapping my foot as we record this episode. I want you to know, because I'm just like, this is horrible. Yeah, he's like, I'm never gonna see him again. You better fucking hope so dion has a crazy dream that night he dreams he's at the feast held for robert's visit and then it all goes awry and he was feasting with the dead and i love this scene you know why i love this scene there's a lot of reasons to love it we'll get there king robert sat with his guts spilling out on the table from

the great gash in his belly and lord edward was headless beside him corpses do you think that edward's never mind i was gonna ask if he was like headless nick you can edit this out my god corpses lined the benches below gray brown flesh sloughing off their bones as they raised their cups to toast worms crawling in and out of the holes that were their eyes. He knew them, every one, Jory Cassell and Fat Tom, Porthor and Cain and Hullen, the master of horse, and all the others who had ridden south to King's Landing never to return. Micken and Chale sat together, one dripping blood in the other water. Benfred Tollert and his wild hares filled most of a table. The miller's wife was there as well, and Farland, even the wildling Theon had killed in the Wolfswood the day he had saved Bran's life. But there were others with faces he had never known in life,

faces he had seen only in stone. The slim, sad girl who wore a crown of pale blue roses and a white gown, spattered with gore, could only be Liana. Her brother, Brandon, stood beside her and their father, Lord Rickard, just behind. Along the walls, figures half seen moved through the shadows, pale shades with long, grim faces. The sight of them sent fear shivering through Theon, sharp as a knife. Our knives are sharp. And then the tall doors opened with a crash and a freezing gale blew down the hall and Robb came walking out of the night. Greywind stalked beside, eyes burning, and man and wolf alike bled from half a hundred savage wounds. Whoa. This is a heavy ass scene. What's up with theon's dreams i and i don't know maybe it's

you know like weirwood style maybe he's just getting all this like crazy it's almost like he took shade of the evening it's like metaphorical dreams that are basically foreshadowing what's all about to happen just like what we see with danny's visions I'm also reminded of Cersei's walk of shame from this dream, right? All the guilt over the people they hurt. And of course, Lyanna, I sad. Yes, it's so interesting that she appears there and all these Starks. And like, yeah, like there's something magical going on here because, I mean the theon does have

blood of the first men the ironborn do and like there's so much foreshadowing of different things in theon's story in theon's storyline like this doesn't happen for theon necessarily but this is of course a foreshadowing of rob and graywind dying in book two when it happens in book three. And it's not just guilt that is the reason that Rob and Greywind are showing up here. Like the way that we see them come in with the half a hundred savage wounds, like it's it's like that's them. They're going to die. But also the way that this chapter is structured, it should serve as a way to wag the finger at us. Like, hey, have you noticed amongst all of these Starks who isn't here? The alive ones.

Bran and Rickon, yes. The ones that are alive. Those kids. This is our Maester Luwin moment, isn't it? I guess not yet, but almost. Almost. almost almost he wakes screaming that it was nothing as lewin pours him some wine but theon knows better than to drink it as lewin does not love him he thinks lewin wants him dead as asha does and again i get like arian vibes this time because i don't think that asha wants the odd

dead she's like oh my god she wants theon smart okay and she definitely wants Pyke and all that comes with it in terms of being the head of House Greyjoy in the Iron Islands but like in this moment Theon's just fearing that someone who should be after him in the line of succession is stealing his place knowing that his father would put their sibling ahead of him just as Erianne thought that Doran meant to do with quentin quentin's a stranger coming home to her world right and she as a woman did work her ass off to have you know that whole world in the first place and have all these small folk know her it's very much like ariane and quentin and then uh after all this i guess like what's i't want it. I don't want any of this. Theon rapes Kyra.

We're not gonna go into the details of it, but what the fuck? Nope. Theon. Nope. Definitely, like, George made sure to bottom hit him at the very end of the barrel. Like, just put him down there. Just, here he is at the bottom of the well

of garbage. Yeah. This is what Theon thinks being a lord is. In the morning, Theon goes to the walls to look at the heads that are on the spikes, and he thinks that this place belongs to the Starks, not a Greyjoy of Pyke. I can see it. I don't know.

And so we learn that it was not Bran and Rickon, but the Millers boys that were flayed and tarred. And he thinks that believing that they were anything else is foolish because all the people of winterfell just saw what they were told to see it's a poignant way to end this chapter considering what's on the horizon for theon in dance people seeing what they're told to see believing that someone is who they're told because theon of course course, later becomes...

later comes to believe that he's Reek, because he's told to be Reek constantly, and so that's what the world ends up seeing as well. It's just such a good build-up to the end. Like, it's all... next chapter, it all comes crashing down. Oh, absolutely. You're just spinning. It's like water in your ears you know it's uh it's all over the next chapter it's nuts i i can't believe that after next episode we transition right into a dance of dragons yeah it's a serious it's a very serious

transition the it's gonna be such a tonal shift like we're gonna it's gonna be such whiplash next episode is gonna be great we're gonna have on amanda the disputed lands crow food's daughter love her really exciting to get her on here with us and to talk about theon six and clash of kings and the outro of theon in a clash of kings what leads up to a dance with dragons truly but until then you can get a load of us on social media follow us at girls gone canon on twitter shoot us an email if you so desire at girls gone canon at gmail.com hey don't forget to subscribe to us on whichever podcast network you utilize that we are on. Google Play, Spotify, iTunes, Stitcher, Acast, you name it.

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being a patron is pretty fun right now. And I think I heard we might have a little, a couple little Easter eggs laying out on Patreon for future POVs and different things coming up soon for different tiers. So definitely check it out. And of course, as always, you can find me, Chloe, on the internet as at Liza and Arbor on Tumblr, Twitter, and of course, Liza can find me chloe on the internet as at lies in arbor on tumblr twitter and of course lies in arbor gold.com and you can find me eliana as glass table girl on the song of ice and fire subreddit or maester monthly have a good one guys goodbye