Girls Gone Canon Cast - ASOIAF Episode 49 - AGOT Jon VI & VII

Episode Date: April 26, 2019

Jon and Sam take the plunge and become men of the Night's Watch. Immediately after, Jon is tested twice: First, his father, Ned, has been arrested for treason. Second, the dead are waking.   COMING UP NEXT WEEK: Special guest, JoeMagician! Check out his YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHmkKXQMT3SBBzmPQAbgMog   Intro by Anton Langhage --- Eliana's twitter: https://twitter.com/arhythmetric   Eliana's reddit account: https://www.reddit.com/user/glass_table_girl   Eliana's blog: https://themanyfacedblog.wordpress.com/   Chloe's twitter: https://twitter.com/liesandarbor   Chloe's blog: www.liesandarborgold.com

hello and welcome to girls gone canon episode 49 john 6 and john 7 in a game of thrones i am one of your hosts chloe you might know me from the internet as at lies in arbor on twitter tumblr and at my blog lies in arbor gold.com and hello i'm another one of your hosts you might know me as eliana but you also might know me as glass table girl on reddit on the mason monthly podcast maybe as arithmetic on twitter check out my blog it's the many face blog yes actually you should check out eliana's blog she does have a wordpress it's the many-faced blog and she just put out a killer piece on denarius targaryen it was like her magnum opus the one thing she's ever written ever i mean like I do feel complete now. It's the first thing that I put on that blog in, like, three years.

I'm jealous. I hope I can do something soon. You mean, like, just not do anything for three years and then do something? I mean, that's what I'm in the middle of currently. I'm currently doing that, but... Yeah. You can do it. I'm working on it. I believe in you.

Ashara Part 3. Fingers crossed. Prayer circle. We have a lot to get through we'll drop a link to that new essay in the description of the episode but we want to give a couple updates we have some big updates with patreon we have a live stream on sunday april 28th coming at you straight from ice and fire con not affiliated with the con per se but we will be live at ice and fire con recording this yes so first of all

this live stream comes as a result of thanks to all of you and our patrons helping us reach our stretch goal of a thousand dollars so thank you so much for everyone like and again it is episode 49 and next week like everything's everything's really exciting for us here everything's coming up girls gone canon it really feels like it, okay? Like the canon is shooting us into the sky right now. And next week is episode 50, also our one-year anniversary, and we have a very special surprise for all of you. Yeah, we are going to have on the Joe Magician.

You might know him from his YouTube channel, from his many essays. He does great, great work. He has a great piece we talked about, oh, just a couple weeks ago about Weirwoods. Tons of great theories. Check out his channel. We'll drop a link to that as well. But he is going to be joining us for John 8 in a Game of Thrones for our 50th episode. Yes, we were so excited to have Matt, aka Joe Magician. Would you believe that his name is not, in fact, Joe? This really threw me off when I first learned that. But he's done a lot of great writing on Jon Snow and the Starks and how they intersect with things north of the Wall, especially in regards to the prologue with

Waymar Royce. And he's just kind of like a great expert on all those things. And so we are really excited to have him here talking about Jon the Thus. Yeah, I'm kind of jealous that we didn't just get him for this week because there's so much other stuff we were just chatting about. So much other stuff? Oh my god. No, Othar stuff is what I was saying.

Oh. And we have a Patreon special episode coming out for $ dollar and up patrons exclusive episode about the very first episode of game of thrones winter is coming where we discuss analyze and compare it to the pilot episode to season eight episode one with the many parallels we just saw and just discuss its adaptation from the book and what worked and what didn't and we have a special guest on for that as well.

You may know him from the internet, from Twitter, and from his podcast, A Scene of Ice and Fire. Manu, also Manuclear Bomb on Twitter. He will be joining us for that. So make sure to check out our Patreon at patreon.com slash girlsgonecanon. We had a fantastic time recording with Manu. And we say we talk about baseball. Debatable. Debatable. Debatable. Debatable. But along with all these other great voices that are

on our cast, let's talk about some things that all of you have been saying. Yeah, we got a great tweet from Heathen King, our friend Grant on Twitter. It was about Jon, of course. And he said, as we get deeper into Jon's Game of Thrones chapters chapters i wanted to say how much i adore them first time through i thought this was boring and wanted to get back to the great drama at king's landing on rereads it's like these are the beating heart of the first book your analysis of a fellowship being built is spot on the camaraderie jumps off off the page. Having Tolkien references all over these chapters, Sam, Pip, Halder, later Selador, gives us a clear message of intent. There's so much bubbling under the surface here. I know we've spoken previously about how this is very much

like a fun little young adult novel in the middle of this very bleak book and amidst a very bleak landscape, and we have our moody teenager recognizing his privilege and checking it, learning and building a coalition. These chapters on reread absolutely cemented John as my favorite character. We get so much of what this series is really about, like Chloe said. Yes, thank you very much. I'm really glad that Grant is enjoying this. I'm glad that people who like John are enjoying this as much as we are.

We also had Lady Shelley, a good friend of ours, who also loves Jon, saying that. That makes me feel like we're doing good. We're doing okay. I want to be careful. This is everyone's boy. Jon Snow. He's also our son. He's one of my sons. They're all my children. Even the bad ones.

Especially Pep and Gren. Those are really my children. This episode, we're going to get into a lot more of that relationship and dynamic we get a lot of really good stuff in John 7 on that yeah we definitely do it's really precious but also very emotionally

tugging at your heart strings because of the news speaking of coming of age and again our 50th episode coming up we got another email from our good friend Warren Dudson. He says, Girls, as you approach 50 in the company of Jon Snow, I'm struck with one word after this week's episode, and that is potential. George spends a lot of time in Jon's chapters highlighting his potential, even later as he achieves. We see his potential as a swordsman when he arrives at Castle

Black, not shy to utilize his distinct advantage of training over his new brothers. He shows potential as a comrade and leader too when he heeds Donald Noy's words and is all good leaders should he listens and acts. His defense of Sam and the support of his brothers, contrary to Alistair's orders, is notable.

Later in this time with Corrin, again we see his potential recognizes corin serves as a mentor whom john respects immensely joining the wildlings challenges john's black and white beliefs and his relationship with egret triggers the feelings he has on his perceived heritage while outwardly he's adamant he still goes into that cave and his feelings for egret are sincere and remain so as he cradles her dying in his arms. Oh, why would you say that, Lauren? Yeah, why would you attack us on our podcast? My God.

Okay, Satan. Jesus. God. Yeah, Jesus protect us. It is Easter. You're being attacked. My gosh. There are loads and loads of other examples of potential throughout John's arc and it's something that will be present in my mind as I listen I just can't believe that someone would just bring up

Ygritte dying out of the blue at us I'm still raw we're gonna get there and all of you are gonna just like the podcast is us gonna be crying yeah drunk crying. It's just going to be drunk tears.

Finally, though, it does make me wonder and pose a question to you guys. What potential did Rhaegar have as a king? What kind of rule might he have had if Robert was defeated and Aerys deposed? There are supposed to be emojis here, but they're not showing up in this right now. So just know that there were three emojis. Who knows what they were?. Oh they're thinking emojis I can see them. Oren said thinking emoji, thinking emoji, thinking

emoji. Thank you You're welcome. That was important to the message It really was though Look forward to hearing your thoughts Oh, thinking emoji and hope this mail makes it through Wishing you all the joy in the world for Ice and Fire Con and your livecast.

Unfortunately for me, it's Valar Dohaeris. Sucks, you gotta work, but hopefully we will hold another one eventually that you can see. Warren, thank you so much for writing into us. We have missed and like your emails. I know you've been busy with work, as you mentioned to us.

I do like that idea that parallel to Rhaegar, right? We get this background where Rhaegar, you know, wakes up one day after reading scrolls and after conversing back and forth with Maester Aemon, actually, in the Citadel, and he wakes up and goes, I must be a knight one day, right? He goes from being scholarly and reading and reading and reading to now suddenly, he believes he's probably the prince that was promised. And I think that hint of prophecy absolutely is what drives a lot of these Targaryens mad or what really is their downfall, not necessarily driving them mad. I think Rhaegar had potential, like you're saying there, as a king, he would have had a more peaceful rule,

but he wasn't really willing to do anything to depose his father right he said when i come back from dealing with you know what i'm about to go off and do which was liana he doesn't come back he doesn't take care of things like he tells jamie he's going to do he ends up facing robert on the field remaining loyal to his family to aries the mad king and aries ends up murdered by Jaime and Rhaegar murdered by Robert. I think Jon's going to do a lot of learning on his own to not have it end up that way. Obviously, we know he kind of gets a little stabby-stabbed, but when he comes back to life, I think he'll have learned a lot and he'll take a lot from all of these different mentors

that he's had, whether it's the Old Bear or, you know, having Corrin halfhand, etc. Mance, Stannis, he will learn from all of these mentors, much like the characters like Sansa or Arya are doing. Yeah, and I'm curious to see which of those lessons he retains and which ones he doesn't. Right? Because part of the learning process is being like, well, that was good advice. That was good advice and deciding what works for you, especially because we're going to see a changed Jon. George R. R. Martin talks about how he thinks death should change characters when they come back. So he'll be a little different when he comes back. I think it's not going to be exactly as it was in the show. So as for how well Rhaegar would have done I think you know Ares set the bar

really low all right the bar was low even Robert seems like a great king in comparison to him I don't know how well he would have done it seems like he didn't really respect the bonds that his vassals had with one another and didn't think to share some of those ideas it seems as though he had as much of a talent as robert though for winning people over he a lot of people thought that he was very valiant and trusted in him and you know assuming that the tourney at harrenhal was supposed to be his sort of like way of bringing lords together to think about how we're going to take care of aries and assuming the rumors in the world of ice and fire were right about rhaegar plotting against his father i mean maybe maybe not but it seems like he was good at coalition building until you know he blew it all

up so yeah i do feel like liana was that uh that bolt you know you know she was that wrench in the plan. She was the bolted? Are you saying she's a bolted? No stop. Bolt off Aliana. Bolt off. No I think she was a wrench in that plan. I think you know even that memory Jamie has of him you know we'll talk about this when I return. Never returns.

That was the wrench in the plan. He didn't know he was going to fall in love with the Stark girl and bear the savior john snow you know the timing of that i think when he tells jamie he had already run off with liana he comes back to king's landing right grabs the other king's guard and then goes to the trident and then it's over yeah then it's over and you took too long fucking around i think that's the issue right like that just as how robert is able to romanticize liana because he never actually got to be with her a lot of people romanticize rhaegar's potential and because of that he can always be that perfect prince or king to people if you're

not robert but the point of the matter is he fucked up yeah i mean and people always say you know i'm a big proponent for this and we'll obviously get into this in other chapters especially i know tyrian's chapters we'll hear about it dornish chapters in general but it doesn't matter what kind of cool fuck deal you had with elia you know like i don't care if you were like yeah you can't bear children so now i could go fuck off whoever i want maybe i'll legitimize that child or whatever you know i don't really care whatever the fuck it was he's still responsible for those deaths yeah that blood is on his hands and a lot of people like well the castle fell like they were gonna die what was he gonna do about it you secure them you get them out of there you break them out of there you don't let aries keep

them there like that should have been your first like that's still your blood that should have been your first thing i don't know it just is a bad taste like it's hard because i want to i mean i know he's tragic and i want to appreciate that and understand that but like at the same time all those thoughts just stick in your head and you're like what the fuck man yeah for sure i wonder if we're gonna see that he thought he was following what he saw as a longer game in terms of prophecy and songs of ice and fire and stuff but you know as you were saying what is the price of all that like was all of it worth it if the whole kingdom burned and it reminds me of the conversation between stanis baratheon and davos of you know what is the life of one bastard boy against the kingdom

and Davos says everything you know like what is the life of your two true born children what is the life of all these many people against everything yeah so I don't know anyway but Eliana what is honor compared to a woman's touch oh I thought you were going to ask me what is honor

I was like a horse well before we jump into our lightning round we do want to plug make sure you compared to a woman's touch. Oh, I thought you were going to ask me what is on her. I was like, a horse. Well, before we jump into our lightning round, we do want to plug, make sure you check out, this week's episode will already have been out, but coming up, we will put up that audio recording from the live cast for episode three of Game of Thrones up on Podbean at some point, so make sure to take a look for that.

It'll show up on any place you listen to podcasts, and our Game of Thrones episodes will keep coming out on Tuesdays for now until the end of the season. Yep, and also, because we are putting out this livestream and going to Ice and FireCon and all these things, we will be taking

a very, very brief break when it comes to these book episodes. Just one episode. we will not be releasing the usually scheduled episode that would come out between like the 8th and the 10th of may just to give us a little time to recuperate but our show episodes in response to the um game of thrones tv show the original series will still be coming out. So you will not get Jon 9 and 10 on May 8th, 9th, or 10th, depending on if you were a Patreon or part of the public, but you will still be getting an episode in response to the Game of Thrones season 8 episodes on May 6th and May 13th.

Yes. So now let's check out what we missed between John 5 and John 6 in the book, our lightning round. Tyrion 6. Tyrion and Bronn meet the mountain clansmen of the Vale. Eddard 11. Eddard holds court

and hears Riverlanders calling Gregor Clegane to justice, beginning the Brotherhood Without Banners. Yes! I just wanted to applaud for a second there. Sansa 3. Sansa's dreams are dashed when her father means to send her home from King's Landing. Eddard 12. Sansa helps Eddard understand why Jon Arryn died and confronts Cersei about it in the Godswood. Daenerys 5. Daenerys eats a stallion heart, and her brother realizes he is not the hero of the story. He is fitted with a golden crown.

Eddard 13. The king is mortally wounded, and Ned allies with Littlefinger to save the crown from falling to Joffrey and Cersei. This leads us into Jon VI in A Game of Thrones. Jon is chosen for the stewards when he puts the sorting hat on, and he's pretty ticked off. But what he doesn't understand is while he's no ranger, he's being groomed. He's the old bear's steward. He and Sam say their vows beyond the wall at a heart tree and Ghost brings home a surprise. And so the chapter begins with Sam is also being summoned to the set because he too is advancing.

And it seems like John's plan of asking Maester Aemon for some help worked because Sam's going to be assisting Maester Aemon. Political John! Okay, so I don't know what it actually means but there's some theory that john is like being political in the show right now and that he's like holding his cards from danny and he's gonna reveal them and take the throne and be super political or some shit that's um that's a theory yeah right i'm like no it's not john doesn't want

that it's not a thing and it doesn't seem like a very John thing in the show no and like he's definitely like political and like he's courteous and trying to meet people's needs in the books but he's not he's not like for Sam it was like because he loves Sam yeah he's not like schemey political

the things that he holds to his heart are like I can't tell people that I actually like care about the free folk. No one's going to want to believe me. Like that I think they're like people or something. Oh, God. Gross. Anyway.

Well, it's a beautiful day out. The walls glistening, the crystals are rainbowing in the sept. Reminds me a lot of the sept in King's Landing and that crystal crown on that high sept in. The other boys are super shocked when Sam enters and the other high officers come in. And apparently the chapter wants us to know that it's noteworthy that the Septon is sober. So I've included that to note. But the other high officers come in. Those include, of course, the Lord Commander J.R. Mormont, Maester Aemon, Sir Alistair Thorne,

and then Bowen Marsh, the Lord Steward, Othel Yarwick, the First Builder, and Sir Jeremy Riker, who is standing in for Benjen. How dare you. How dare you stand there. How dare. But also he's probably like, oh, this is so awkward. I wish Benjen

would come back. Anyway. So, J.R. Mormont gives this big speech, and it's about how the Night's Watch is one house and unity. It is. He talks about, Times will be washed away, your debts forgiven. So too, you must wash away your former loyalties. Put aside your grudges, forget old wrongs and old loves alike. Here, you begin anew. He warns them of what they're going to be giving up. Kings, lords, honor of a house, gold, women's love, offspring.

He urges them to think carefully before saying the words, because the penalty for desertion is death. And I mean, obviously the Night's Watch is similar in like some of those odes to the Kingsguard, especially the way that Mormont phrases it here. Maybe because I'm just like feeling real Easter vibes today. It feels kind of religious and like baptismal and resurrection-ish, like the whole washing away of all of these,

your old life and becoming like a new person and reborn feels kind of like that and it also the giving away of everything here and giving all that up reminds me of another order that a different member of john's family joins the house of black and white because when john becomes a steward and he has to like first learn to like wash and serve stuff like serving and doing all these like chores and it's very much similar to Arya's first few days at the house of black and white which is kind of funny because it's the black and white which are the colors of the night's watch and the king's guard but the giving up of like your old life and things and identity too oh yeah that's really a great

call out on that actually now that you say that that i didn't even think about how black and white in the color scheme i mean obviously it's black what's great about the house of black and white is like it's a literal house of black and white yeah split right down the center of like morality uh but that's a really great kind of parallel no one moves during the speech no one leaves mormont says the recruits will take their vows in the sept and asks if anyone keeps the old gods to take their vows in the godswood. John says he does, and we learn the Night's Watch never kept a godswood because the forest beyond is the same as it always was with its own godswood. Sam pipes up he'd like to say his vows in front of

the old gods as well. The voice made John glance back in surprise. Samuel Tarly was on his feet. The fat boy wiped his sweaty palms against his tunic. Might I go as well to say my words at this heart tree? Does House Tarly keep the old gods too? Mormont asked. No, my lord.

Sam replied in a thin, nervous voice. The high officers frightened him, John knew. The old bear most of all. I was named in the light of the seven at the sept on Horn Hill as my father was and his father knelt at Tarly's for a thousand years. Why would you forsake the gods of your father and your house? wondered Sir Jeremy Riker. The night's Watch is my house now, Sam said. The Seven have never answered my prayers. Perhaps the Old Gods will. Well, the Old Gods are Brandon Bloodraven, so good news. Good news, Sam.

You've met him. Well, one of them. Kinda, you know. He's kind of a prophet-ish thing for them. Yeah, yeah. He's helpful. He actually answers more of their prayers, I think, than the

other way around whatever you think anyways but it sam's wording here reminds me of something that happens in that book two of someone else who comes to the wall for a bit where stannis speaks to davos about why he's chosen to partner with melisandre and goes the seven have never brought me so much as a sparrow it is time i tried another hawk davos a red hawk oh yes yes so we get the sorting hat ceremony calder and elbit end up going to the builders gren pip totter and mathar to the rangers and then sam darren and john join the, and this is some drama. Oh, he's so pissed. He's like, this is obviously wrong.

Sam's going to be helping Eamon. I like this detail that Darian, because he feasted with high lords as a singer, is going to be good with helping with the food purchasing. That's not, as a person who works in that industry. food purchasing that's not as a person who works in that industry i mean they were just i think more or less like please make sure that these things are of high quality and like uh that we're not getting ripped off i guess also that like we have food yeah so i mean the rest he's gonna learn on the job right like this is still like the beginning he's just being trained but john's like what the fuck all right he's about to protest and And then he sees Alistair Thorne, like, staring all staring like at him. Jon, he thinks he knows it'd be like it is, but it don't.

But he thinks that it do. Oh my god. He thinks that Alistair's fucked him over for his new job. Jon is pissed about his duties. He's like, do you take me for a servant? And Maester Aemon, of course, comes back with some hot fire. No, Maester Aemon said from the back of the sept. Clyde has helped him stand.

We took you for a man of the Night's Watch. But perhaps we were wrong in that. Oh. Damn, you know you fucked up. Yeah, exactly. Like, you know you fucked up when Maester Aemon's out here calling you out, all right? Yeah, Grandpa Aemon's like, what the fuck? Yeah. So Jon storms off and he's

moody as hell, but I'm over here like, that's your relative, how dare you walk away? You respect your elders. Respect your grandpa. Well, he's not really I mean, he didn't have any offspring, but you know, your great-great great uncle. He's great, alright?

Aemon's great. We love him. John, Samuel Tarly said excitedly, wait, don't you see what they're doing? John turned on him in a fury. I see Sir Alistair's bloody hand. That's all I see. He wanted to shame me, and he has. Darian gave him a look.

The stewards are fine for the likes of you and me, Sam, but not for Lord Snow. I'm a better swordsman and a better rider than any of you, Jon blazed back. It's not fair. Fair, Darion sneered. The girl was waiting for me, naked as the day she was born. She pulled me through the window and you talked to me of fair? He walked off.

I love that. He totally has the right of it. Darion has the right of it. Jon doesn't understand his privilege. You chose to come here. No one chooses to go to the Night's Watch. That's like a last place to go. And also that Darian's the one to deliver this message to Jon about fairness. Because it feels like a life is not a song moment, I think. And he should know because he's actually an expert on the romantic notions of songs not matching up with reality. Because, you know, he's almost a singer. He was studying under one.

He's kind of a singer, as Jon puts it. Sam tells Jon there's no shame in being a steward. Don't you see? Jeor asked for you himself. He'll be with the Lord Commander all the time. Sam explains when he was little in the Eredor Horn Hill, he accompanied his father for everything.

But then it was Dickon. The Lord wanted his heir to side to learn and to be groomed for command. Jon says I never asked for this. None of us are here for asking. Sam reminded him. And suddenly Jon Snow was of us are here for asking, Sam reminded him. And suddenly, Jon Snow was ashamed. Craven or not, Samwell Tarly had found the courage to accept his fate like a man.

On the wall, a man gets only what he earns. Benjen Stark had said the last night Jon had seen him alive. You're no ranger, Jon. Only a green boy with the smell of summer still on you. He'd heard it said that bastards grow up faster than other children. On the wall, you grew up or you died. John let out a deep sigh. You have the right of it. I was acting the boy. Such growth. Holy shit, such growth. Like John straight up just stopped and he used his brain, his logic and said, okay okay i guess i overreacted it yeah it is funny

because you were saying earlier like how john's the only person who really chose to be here yeah right because john's ashamed because he's like i'm the i asked to be here all right yeah and everyone else is like no we're just here um and you see it a lot in this chapter in the next one. And we like, we're gonna keep talking about John's growth. All right. Because he keeps echoing how he's so much of a green boy. And his story is just such a classic, like, literally within the genre of a coming of age story of what he's learning, in terms of like, what he knew, and he didn't know. And later on, he like starts to internalize that he knows nothing, which on one hand is good in terms of like what he knew and he didn't know and later on he like starts to internalize that he knows nothing which on one hand is good in terms of humility but it becomes really twisted within john's story because when he reminds himself that he knows nothing it's just a sadness and self-hate and he tries to force himself to grow up instead of like doing it organically he tries to force himself with like kill the boy and let the man be born and it's just very sad yeah he has to learn to put on a lord's face uh and he kind of gets lost in that mask talking about characters that put faces on i guess oh oh identity motifs themes wait can can i throw out something crazy it's not that crazy samuel tarly as the Hermione of John's story.

Yes. However, I think Samuel Tarly is the Neville for sure. Oh, he's also that. Yeah. He's more of the Neville. Never mind. He's like a Neville turned into like Hermione. Neville-miney.

Neville-miney. Yeah. Which I guess Hermione technically has that arc as well, but it works. We're just going to say it's both. John agrees to say the words with Sam, so they leave to say their vows in the late afternoon out beyond the wall. And we end up getting a really good amount of exposition about Castle Black and the wall. The wall in Castle Black had no gates. They go down a narrow tunnel, and three times they are blocked by iron bars. Sam worries, and he asks if the wildlings would ever come this close to the wall.

And John says they have never tried before. So you know they're gonna. Yeah, exactly. That's like right there. That's Chekhov's wildlings. Pretty much. John brings Ghost with him on the other side of the wall and they enter the haunted forest. And the haunted forest feels like a different world.

And it's like riding past the end of the world to John, which is very much the language that George uses when he's talking about Hadrian's Wall and how he felt there. It's super dark and mysterious because, you know, it's like a haunted forest, right? There are nine weirwoods that stand in a circle, which is actually an enormous amount of weirwoods, apparently, because even in the Wolf's Wood, only two grow around each other. So it's real fucking lush up here the floor is blood red on top and black rotting leaves below and the trunks are white as bone and there are nine faces staring inward it's all creepy and shit and then the horses have to be left outside because we're preserving the sanctity of this like tree circle no horses allowed god how dare so that's not where we're holding our Patreon. No, we are not doing our live stream there.

No, because we can't bring our horses. Yeah. We're gonna make our own circle of only horses steering inwards and no trees will be allowed inside our circle. John and Sam can feel that the old gods are watching them as they say the words. And we're not going to say the O's, all right? Because other podcasts have did it and we are women and therefore not allowed to join the Night's Watch absolutely or not so we're just going to talk about what happens next which is you knelt as boys bow and march in tone solemnly rise now as men of the Night's Watch I love kind of what you said about that haunted forest feeling how it's dark and mysterious

i feel like the eeriness of north of the wall really sticks out in these chapters in a game of thrones it even harkens back to that prologue there's almost sleepy hollow vibes coming from yeah just the the mist and the snows and the the headless horseman kind of trope going on with the others uh in the next chapter you know we find Othor dead from an axe wound, which makes me think even more of the headless horseman rider. And then there's that 14th century poem that's called Sir Gawain and the Green Knight. It kind of makes this whole entire plot a twist of Arthurian horror north of the wall. Can you tell us a little more about the 14th country poem called Sir Gawain

and the Green Knight? Yes, I can. I can, I can, I can. So basically it features a headless horseman. It's this big giant knight and he is beheaded by Gawain. The Green Knight lifts his head up with one hand and he rides down the hall challenging him to meet again even though his head's

completely chopped off and dead. So it's basically just fighting that undead kind of person very sleepy hollow but it really makes me think of that because sir gawain and the green knight uh that idea yeah just like the green seers but also john is a green boy right now yes but of course john is really sir gawain would be john in this though but still yeah it's just reminiscent of it in that and it's something that you know it was written by an anonymous gawain poet many many many many many many many years ago 14th century uh and it's kind of a trope that exists in different arthurian pieces all around and i mean, it's a long-ass poem. It's like 2,500 lines. Yeah.

Oh, God. They use the bobbin wheel, right, with a short line, and then followed by the wheel with a long line, the internal rhyme. And they also did a lot of the alliterative revival style that was typical of the 14th century. Interesting. Interesting. That's very cool. As they prepare to start back, Ghost reappears between the trees, his coloring matching them,

and oh, look, he's brought us a hand. Aw, good boy. Yeah. This is exactly what I wanted. I think the thing that you say, Chloe, fits here, the, oh, thanks, I hate it. Thanks, I hate it. That's, yeah, that's I hate it. Thanks. I hate it. Yeah, that's pretty much it. Real quick, just a sidebar so you know.

There's a similar story that there's a legendary Irish figure who faces a trial similar to Gawain's and has to slay a monstrous hound. Oh, that's interesting. So we pop right over to our lightning round of what we missed between John 6 and John 7. Before we climb on into John 7, it's very dense. This is a pretty quick lightning round. And so we start with Eddard 14.

There's a lot of things that we could say, but ultimately betrayal. Do you like, like, I straight up started to write something and I was like, I'm just going to say betrayal. I know, I do, I do. There's just, these chapters can all be summed up pretty quickly. I mean, the very end of this book, there's just one purpose for each chapter, you know? So, Arya IV, what do we say to the god of death, girl? Not today. Sansa IV, Sansa is brought out of house arrest and made to write letters to her family,

begging them to swear fealty to Joffrey? And Jon VII, bodies of two missing rangers have shown up, but something isn't quite right with them. John learns of his father's treason, and he's later provoked by Alistair Thorne. John saves the old bear from the reanimated body of a dead Night's Watchman. And so begins John VII, with Jeremy reicher identifying two of benjamin stark's men they are found dead by ghosts in the snows and they are othor and jafer flowers my uncle's men john thought numbly he remembered how he had pleaded to ride with them gods i was such a green boy if he had taken me it might be me lying here Yeah. Like he wasn't lying when he

called you a green boy, John. Yeah, it's a definitely another one of those moments of growth for John. Yes. These are really weird corpses, right? Because the horses are super afraid of them. And the dogs like them even less. Yeah. And John recalls that he dreamed about the winterfell crypts again the night before searching for his father only this time the dream had gone further than before in the dark he'd heard the scrape of stone on stone when he turned he saw that the vaults were opening one after the other one after the other oh as the dead kings came stumbling from their cold black graves john had woken in pitch dark his heart hammering there's a lot in this the scrape of stone on stone is actually completely similar to the sound he later hears from the other author with the scrape of boot on stone

and the way that the text presents it to us they say and then he heard it which gives us that language saying this is a familiar sound that he's hearing again just like what he heard in his dream oh that's a great catch i didn't i didn't notice how much this dream echoes and like obviously it's an omen but like how much it is also yeah that's hilarious that his name is like othor sounds like other yeah it's a bit much charge it's very bit much, George. It's very much on the nose, but, you know, whatevs. Better than on the neck or the wrist.

It's better than Maegor's reign lasting, what is it, six years, six months, and six days or something like that? Yeah. Fucking devil. Fucking edgy. All right. Sam is afraid to look at the dead also, but john tells him that he has to yeah just like with bran in that chapter with bran where john tells him you know you have to look or else father will know you didn't look very much so bran vibes and at the same time it's him also trying to be this positive leader in their friendship group to keep sam from you know being in not trouble but getting you know picked

on or getting bullied or hazed or etc yeah it's all of that i i love that it has those brand vibes and also because it reminds us of that shows us that they are brothers now yes that companionship and that brotherhood oh there's so much of that in this chapter it makes i like was i got really emotional reading this chapter. I'm a grown-ass woman. And these are just wee babes. Yes. The old bear questions then, how could this have happened? Like, they had hunting horns. Were, like, all of you rangers out here deaf?

And he's just, like, laying into Jeremy Riker, who's like, uh, yeah, they have horns, but none of them were blown, okay. And Jaor himself had limited their patrols and told them to stay close to the wall. And then in examining the head, Jeremy says that the body was butchered by an axe. His flesh was blanched white as milk everywhere but his hands. His hands are black like jaffers. Blossoms of hard, cracked blood decorated the mortal wounds that covered him like a rash breast and groin and throat. Yet his eyes were still open.

They stirred up at the sky, blue fafires oh my god i have no regrets it's interesting to think about kind of that cold hands character and all this and what would have halted this transformation into full zombie yeah i mean like i guess i mean what if the show is right that it's the the glass in him yeah i don't know possibly that they he halted it by putting dragon glass into him i don't know i don't know what i do want to know that i do not know is like are the whites just fucking playing possum right now okay like yes they are actually dead but did they walk all this way lie down and be like we're gonna do a prank like is that was this did they plan this or something?

Or did, like, whoever's controlling them plan this? These are questions I have. Oh my god. Sir Jeremy is pushing a wildling narrative, but J.R. doesn't really believe that, and Sam doesn't either. Sam works up his courage, and he starts to nervously speak, although Chet is bullying him at the same time.

Shut the fuck up, Chet. Yeah, shut up, Chet, you loser. Sam says, blood isn't flowing in these dead bodies, and he points out where Ghost ripped the hand off. More than that, the blood was black dust. Dwight and the Forester takes a huge sniff on the corpses, and he agrees with Sam. Sam points out they've been lying in the woods,

but there are no maggots or worms either. John even adds in about the horses and dogs not going near them. This, this is all wrong, Sam Tarly said earnestly. The blood, there's bloodstains on their clothes and, and their flesh, dry and hard, but there's none on the ground or anywhere. With those, those, those, Sam made himself swallow, took a deep breath. With those wounds, terrible wounds, there should be blood all over, shouldn't there? Diwin sucked at his wooden teeth.

Might be they didn't die here. Might be someone brought him and left him for us. A warning, as like. The old forester peered down suspiciously. And might be. I'm a fool, but I don't know. The author never had no blue eyes before. Sir Jeremy looked startled.

Neither did Flowers, he blurted, turning to stare at the dead men. A silence fell over the wood. For a moment, all they heard was Sam's heavy breathing and the wet sound of diowans sucking on his teeth. John squatted beside Ghost. Burn them, someone whispered. One of the rangers, John could not have said who. Yes, burn them, a second voice urged. Oh, it's so horror, and it's so good. Burn them, someone whispered. How good is that? I love it.

I love that you don't even know, and it's just like, it's just the voice in the, it becomes the voice in the back of everyone's head. Yeah. It's like living with an infestation of something, you know, that creepy crawly, just like, you don't know when you're gonna have to deal with it popping up. Yeah, yeah. And I like that John has said before that he's like, everyone's kind of thinking it, but no one wanted to say it. Yeah. And Jeremy's like acting as the initial skeptic. I kind of wonder if he refused to acknowledge that they were whites more for his own sanity and not as much of his like stubbornness. I appreciate that we're seeing like uh sam's bravery here yeah and we know that someone didn't bring them here and leave them for them

and like i guess and the forester asks if it's a warning it reminds me of joe magician's theory of like why the others keep making those like weird patterns that it's kind of like a fuck you or like a warning which they did just uh confirm that it's kind of like a fuck you or like a warning which they did just uh confirm that actually the director of the episode confirmed that's why yeah so he was correct in that theory a plus can't wait to have joe magician on with his correct theories indeed indeed but you know speaking of correct theories and sam now. Right. Yeah. Sam was so, I love that like, Jav's like, no, shut up. Let him talk. And J.R. was like, let him talk.

Let him, let him speak about this. Yeah. J.R. wants Eamon to examine the bodies before they burn them. And they bring the bodies back to the wall with difficulty because of course the horses and dogs will not carry them. They end up having to use physical labor to get it back. Mormont then commands Jeremy to find the rest of the missing men at any cost and scout the entire forest. He will know anyone who steps foot in there. Yes.

After that, Mormont rode in silence, brooding. John followed close behind him. As the Lord Commander's steward, that was his place. The day was gray, damp, overcast, a sort of day that made you wish for rain. No wind stirred the wood. The air hung humid and heavy, and John's clothes clung to his skin. It was warm, too warm. The wall was weeping copiously, had been weeping for days,

and sometimes John even imagined it was shrinking. The old men called this weather Spirit Summer and said it meant the season was giving up its ghosts at last. And after this, the cold would come, they warned, and a long summer always meant a long winter. This summer lasted 10 years. John had been a babe in arms when it began. I love that speech on just the climate.

And I kind of like tracking how the seasons have come and gone in the time like we talked about a couple episodes ago i love also that everyone's mentors really reflect those little bits of them and the pieces they keep like the bear brooding this chapter really signifies that start of the vicious haunting cold that is to come yes it's just all like warning about it and there's as you were saying a lot of great temperature language in here just like you see it in the prologue it's like always just too warm and later on it's too cold and that clues you in that something's just not right though you know as you're saying in terms of keeping time of the

temperatures it makes me like think i can't believe they fucking fought this huge ass civil war robert's rebellion this brutal war in the winter oh yeah yeah i always think about that especially because you you don't think about it and then you're like oh yeah the fall spring duh that means it went right back to winter which i can believe it because i'm originally from michigan so i mean sure but like it just makes it that much more brutal. Yeah, absolutely. It makes those rubies drop it in the water. Just, ugh. So, Ghost runs with them, and John is thinking back on some of the creepy tales Old Nan used to tell.

In the darkness, the others came riding, she used to say, dropping her voice lower and lower. Cold and dead they were in the hated iron and fire and the touch of the sun, and every living creature with hot blood in its veins. They're all true. All of these stories were true. Old Nan, you're so old. She is so old.

I also demand squishers. I demand squishers. Squish, squish. Squish, squish, squish. All right. Yeah. Also, the hating of iron. Someone has pointed this out to me before.

I don't remember. It's like an old fairy thing that they don't like iron um mormon tells sam and john that they did well good job good job boys john thinks that no matter what he got to be a ranger for a day and then as the horn sounds to announce their arrival back bow and marsh welcomes them with urgent news though of a rider with a message and mr amen is awaiting the lord commander in his solar john don't be sad you get to be a ranger now the rest of your life forever yay forever ranger in the snow the rest of your life of the next like i don't know two three years christ sorry everyone while mormont goes off to be amen john takes his horse to the stable alliser thorn gives him an odd smirk and donald noy calls out the gods be with you snow

as he walks by as he enters the common hall pip breaks the news the king is dead pip offers his condolences and he says he knows john's family was close with robert they were as close as brothers once john wondered if joffrey would keep his father as the king's hand it did not seem likely that might mean lord eddard would return to winterfell and his sisters as well he might even be allowed to visit them with lord mormont's permission it would be good to see aria's grin again and to talk with his father i will ask him about my mother he resolved i am a man now it is past time he told me even if she was a whore i don't care i want to know i mean do you john i mean you do but like do you it's a lot it's a lot it's great that like john precedes the rest of this exchange so thinking

about the that relationship between ned and robert and we did talk a lot about you know the ned robert john aaron like little family like brothers in the ned episodes back then but that john thinks of ned and aria and then get with the other boys like we see it repeated that like ned and robert were the brothers sometimes just because you don't share blood doesn't mean you aren't family absolutely you see that here with these boys pip immediately asks about the dead men and john brushes him off and says go ask sam he'll tell you and then he takes his leave to find the old bear to see if he needs him and of course he did he was asking for john and john tells himself it's nothing he just wants wine or a fire in his hearth

that's all but the gods are never good and his raven is calling corn in the background the whole while Lord Mormont commands John to pour them both both of them a glass of wine which like later on J.R. Mormont's gonna be like don't do anything stupid John and I'm just saying from John's point of view Lord J.R. do you know what happened the last time john got super drunk right he makes really rash choices why would you be like oh drink this whole glass of wine and don't do anything dumb that was foolish right jr mormont why would you why would you trust the teenage boy okay mormont lifted his eyes from the letter to stare at John There was pity in that look, he could taste it You heard me

John remained standing It's my father, isn't it? The old bear tapped the letter with a finger Your father and the king, he rumbled I won't lie to you, it's grievous news I never thought to see another king not at my age With Robert half my years and strong as a bull He took a gulp of wine.

They say the king loved to hunt. The things we love destroy us every time, lad. Remember that my son loved that young wife of his, vain woman. If not for her, he never would have thought to sell those poachers. John could scarcely follow what he was saying. My lord, I don't understand. What's happened to my father? I told you to sit, Mormont grumbled. Sit, the raven screamed, and have a drink, damn you. That's a command, Snow. John sat and took a sip of wine. Lord Eddard has been imprisoned. He is charged with treason. It is that he plotted with Robert's brothers to deny the throne to Prince Joffrey. No, John said at once. That couldn't be. My father would never betray the king. Be that as it may, said Mormont, it is not for me to say, nor for you. But it's a

lie, John insisted. How could they think his father was a traitor? Had they all gone mad, Lord Eddard Stark would never dishonor himself, would he? He fathered a bastard, a small voice whispered inside of him. Where was the honor in that? And your mother, what of her? He will not even speak her name. Oh. Jon.

It's not because of that, Jon. I promise it's out of pain. It is. And to protect him yes there's a couple of things i want to talk about in here like that idea of the things be loved destroy us every time first of all now i'm kind of wondering is that dear mormont thinking about his love for his son jorah who's a fucking disappointment not just jorah being quote unquote destroyed by luna astah made his own goddamn choices.

Anyway, it reminds me of Cersei talking to Sansa about love is a poison. And maybe it's like a running thing in the series, but like actually he pretends a lot of things, like the things that you love destroying you, like Ned choosing to fess up to being a traitor, even though he's not, in order to protect Sansa. Or Jon deciding that he's going to send Mance to save his sister Arya and, you know, announcing dumb shit in the Shield Hall. These are just a few examples.

But also, Ghost finding a dead hand and bringing it back, just as the stag's horn in the direwolf's neck was one omen. I wonder if that was supposed to be an omen about Ned, because it does make a wonderful segue right into the Ned being arrested chapter, And then Jon finding all this shit out. And there is a ton more that echoes that, right? Because Jon is like disbelief. He's surprised. He asks if Joffrey would listen to Jaor, if Jaor were to speak to the king.

But Jaor says no, Joffrey would listen to the queen mother, which we all know that's not happening. He says that Jon's lady mother kidnapping tyrian did not help the situation and this is interesting john sharply reminds him catalan was not his mother and then he thinks of tyrian as a friend and he thinks that if lord eddard died catalan was as much to blame as cersei and i thought that was a really interesting line and i think like with what you were saying of those echoes of cersei saying love is poison This right here reminds me of a couple moments from Sansa's arc with Cersei. It reminds me of Sansa blaming everybody except Joffrey, right? For Lady's death.

It's Cersei's fault Lady is dead. The Queen's fault. It's Arya's fault. It's not Joffrey's fault. And then even the language later where Mormont is disappointed in Jon, it kind of mirrors that loyalty of Cersei being disappointed when Sansa questions writing those letters to send to her family. And this all happens around the same time. So I can definitely see where some of these parallels are really coming in with these mentors and with the people that they're stuck around. And I think that's such a good point about the

letters because you get a twist on it right with as you pointed out circe questions sanza writing those letters but jira mormon is also asking john to sit down and write letters with him too so a lot of things that are similar john then asks jira mormon about his sisters but turns out paisel didn't think to speak of it in his raven because of course he fucking didn't and mormon says that you know i'm to ask about this in the letter that we're going to write together. And Jon's duty, though, he reminds him, is to the Watch, not his old family anymore. And he thinks, this is my father, my sisters, how can it be none of my concern? It's that first kind of knife in Jon's loyalty, right?

He is Rhaegar's's loyalty right he is raygar's son but he is also very much his father's son ned stark and that is the biggest first punch of you know like oh he's not going to remain loyal to these people he will desert them yeah this is not his real family well it's such a temptation for him that keeps coming up again and again like of testing testing john as a character in general, it's a huge overarching theme for him right up until that fifth book where he dies. And interestingly enough, you know, it's testing him over and over and over. And he can't help but feel like this is the first time that family has ever needed him and wanted him, right? He was never needed and wanted.

And this is his time. He can shine and save them. And that's what he thinks. And it's such a punch in the gut that this comes in this chapter right it's literally right after he's taken the vows and it seems like it's such unfortunate timing but now now he has to live up to that vow yes he leaves the commander solar and even the guards are treating him kind of piteously he takes comfort in ghost

and he laments that his sisters could not have their wolves even for comfort damn their wolves might have kept them safe but lady is dead and namaria's lost they're all alone so it reminds me of that line we get in eddard four right where ned is thinking about what john said when they found the pups your children were meant to have these pups my lord and he had killed sansa's and for what was it guilt he was feeling or fear if the gods had sent these wolves what folly had he done yeah john is going to recognize the importance of having a wolf in like just a second we're gonna get there but first hob is gonna serve john an extra large helping of stew and then john looks around because he like he's like oh shit everyone knows so he's feeling super embarrassed and lonely because everyone's like looking down they're trying to be polite and be like we're not looking we don't know we don't

know anything you're our brother yep sorry it's awkward but then thankfully the fellowship shows up i love this so much this is like my favorite thing in the world. And it's cute. They've asked for there to be candles lit in the sept. And then they tell John, like, we don't believe it. No one believes it. It's fine. Like, everyone knows that's bullshit. Sam offers to go pray in the Weirwoods with John, even though, like, we all know it's weird and scary, all right? And then John begins to think that these are just as much his brothers as Rob and Brandon reckon they are. But.

Then Sir Alistair Thornton interrupts. He ruins everything. But I also want to point out first. He really does. First, like, I just love the moment that Pip is like, he's your father, so he's our father now, too. And I'm like, that's so cute. It is cute. You're so cute.

Yeah. It's really cute. It's a really emotional scene of just like friendship and you know sam oh we can go pray at the weirwoods and pip and gretel you know well we asked for you know candles to be lit for your father and none of us believe it john we know we know your dad's honorable and it's just it's it's something because it's so important to john yeah his dad's honor and like who edard stark was as a person and, like, I mean, John, you know, built his little life around it. He's, you know,

done things the way that he thought Ned would do them and it's to have that whole world shattered and obviously we think this is an identity crisis of having his dad, like, be a treasonous traitor. Like, wait till you figure out he's not your dad. That's even crazier.

Yeah, I mean, he's your dad. dad he just wait till you figure out he didn't put any sperm into this whole fucking deal literally the whole baby just throw it out christ all right so alice or thorn interrupts john and it's the worst and he goes not only a bastard but a traitor's bastard he's telling all the men around him. And immediately John snaps. There is no, John hears this and he snaps. His friends all try to hold him back. He lunges for Alistair Thorne with his dagger out, going for his beady little black eyes.

And after he's marched back to his room, Mormont comes down disappointed in John after having told him not to do anything stupid. Again, what was J.R. Mormont thinking? You gave him a whole glass of wine. He doesn't have any tolerance. What did you think was gonna happen, first of all? Okay.

Second, I love that all his friends are holding him back. I'm just imagining it as this hilarious scene. Everyone's loud and wild and Jon's just grappling and Alistair Thorne's like, ugh. And then with all this happening, you get the record scratch freeze frame. He goes, hi, I'm Jon Snow. You're probably wondering how I got here. And imagine that instead as the start of Game of Thrones and Jon's story.

Absolutely. Typical coming of age, I'm just saying. They take away his knife and his sword, and they tell him he has to stay in his sleeping cell in no contact until the higher council decides on what to do with him. Mormont lets him have ghost at least so he's not wholly alone. That's nice. Yeah.

He talks to ghosts, he tells them his father would never commit treason, and suddenly the cell starts to get colder. Ghost starts to act crazy, He gouges the door. He's snarling. And it appears like there's something outside the sleeping cell. And then shivering uncontrollably, John opens the door. It's like the middle of the night and shit. And there's supposed to be a guard here.

There's a guard watching us, right? No, he's dead. He's on the ground. All right. And his head, he's staring all the way up at the ceiling, but he's lying down on his stomach because it's turned all the way around classic trope classic yes it can't be john told himself this is the lord commander's tower it's guarded day night this couldn't happen it's a dream i'm having a nightmare he hears a noise from above outside the lord commander's chamber and he hears

that scrape of boot on stone and a latch turning which in his dream of course he dreams of that vault opening uh completely the same thing and it's incredible horror it's perfect the color has drained out of everything you can see your breath that's how this chapter feels everything except those blue sapphire eyes yes yes it's just and there's so much that you can't see. It's so great. Jon works the guard's sword, though, out of its sheath before he goes up, which is smart. And he goes with Ghost

and then when he gets in, Mormont's raven is like just calling, Corn! Corn! The whole time. Really useful. And of course, much speculation sense here, but there's been a lot of that bird possibly being skin-changed into by Bloodraven. Yeah, I agree.

I don't know if it's happening yet here, but definitely, definitely is in a second. Yes. Then he saw it, a shadow in the shadows, sliding toward the inner door that led to Mormont's sleeping cell. A man shape in all black, cloaked and hooded, but beneath the hood, its eyes shone with an icy blue radiance. Oh, blue is the eyes of death. John then attempts to stab the white with the guard's sword. But turns out that doesn't work. All right.

The whole fight is super off. The skin is wrong. The blood is wrong. Everything's wrong. I want to call this line out real quick. I really love this line. He had no time to be afraid it's like that no chance no choice you know he takes his sword and he just this is his moment

in a game of thrones this is john's big moment right here it is and he turns around the other turns around and it's other the other and he has this thought gods he's dead he's dead i saw him dead and it's this crazy horror moment it really is you can imagine it being that again that typical like slow horror movie turning around as the bright blue eyes start showing up yes i'm also gonna say that i'm honestly very impressed at how much jaron mormon has slept through in this moment like john woke up because it felt weird, and J.R. Mormont's like, whatever. Until he's not.

And then Ghost and Jon are wrestling with Othor. And then all hope feels lost. Finally fucking J.R. Mormont wakes up. He shows up. And then breaking free of Othor, Jon grabs Mormont's lantern candle thing. Yeah. I'm gonna let you say this.

It's fine. So he breaks free of Othor, and Othor still has ghost. Jon grabs Mormont's lantern candle thingy, and he lights the reanimated man on fire, while the bird is in the background, cawing, Burn! Burn! Burn! Burn! The direwolf wrenched free, and came to him as the white struggled to rise dark snakes spilling from the great wound in its belly john plunged his hand into the flames grabbed a fistful of the burning drapes and whipped them at the dead man let it burn he prayed as the cloth

smothered the corpses the corpse gods please please let it burn you should let it burn deep down inside oh there is undead i'm not as good at freestyling it's okay i got you i got you little pussy and little pigeon thanks uh speaking of little pigeons the bird knows oh my god yes it is totally blood raven it is burb raven it is let it burn the song of ice and fire okay well so are is john having prophetic dreams then or what i think it's interesting well obviously everyone feels that the the dreams of the crypts in regards to his parentage are pathetic right but it's interesting that it is here too yes with the others which has that crazy mystical connection there's that and also i mean granted this is brand's doing but in i think it's clash and it

happens at the same time where brand sees john and john's like third eye ish is opened thanks to bran so yes it makes sense if it's from his connection with the old gods through ghost yeah and absolutely because we see that with the kids you know they have these kind of prophetic omen-esque dreams and on top of that i mean you have that kill the kill the boy and let the man be born eventually and that right there is pretty much i mean that's the whole idea of being reborn just like bran being pushed kill the boy oh yeah open that third eye so i think it's uh obviously we know from george that all start kids have the capability of their third eye being open and just certain ones do not have it open like sansa does not have it open it's the only one yeah rickon

dreams the same shit sansa still has dreams that are similar though i mean she has the dreams of lady that feel real she dreams weird things sometimes too so really the start kids all have crazy dreams yeah yeah and as you said comes from strange magicness happening in their generation amongst those kids. That magical ass blood of the first men. Indeed. It's not all of them. Not all of them.

Yeah. Well, that was an episode. Holy crap. We got through Jon 7, which is super dense. I don't know how we got through it that quickly because it is just there's so much going on and i know i'm personally not the person to talk about the others in you know smart talk i just uh yeah they're they're ice zombies they're a threat yeah i just am the same it's not i think a strength we're here to talk about john's character growth and how the others play into that. Yeah, absolutely.

That incoming threat and how John is going to continue to handle it through all of his books. I mean, even when we get to Clash and Storm and when he's with the Wildlings, it still exists. And it kind of becomes, oh, I don't know, I'd say it becomes really more important when he goes off with the Wildlings. He sees that the other is what it's doing firsthand to whole colonies of people that's true it's destroying people it's uniting them and of course another character in these chapters sam also sees this huge threat like a lot of what john is encountering interestingly he's seeing the whites right he's seeing their power through the undead. Whereas Sam's the one who's like out here seeing like, oh, I saw White Walker, everyone.

And everyone's like, yeah, that's bullshit. He's like, no, I really did. It's very important that we all talk about this in Dragonglass right now, everyone. Well, that was a chapter then. Wonderful. I think that's about it, right? yes yep yep yep yep cool well everyone again we are excited to do this live stream soon and obviously earlier this week you'll have gotten some of our takes on season eight episode two yes and don't forget to watch out for the patreon episode that'll be coming out with manu from a scene of ice and fire manuclear bomb on twitter and if you want to keep track of when all those different things drop and when they're

happening be sure to subscribe to us on social media you can find us at girls gone canon on twitter and also shoot us an email if you like at girls gone canon at gmail.com yeah make sure you subscribe to us to get notifications of when we post episodes we'll post our game of thrones episodes on tuesdays and our regular book episodes on fridays you can get us on podbean on itunes spotify google Google Play, Acast, and Stitcher. And of course, if you want some of those book episodes a little earlier, you can subscribe to us on Patreon. For $5 and up, you get those, as well as, again, this special episode with Manu,

and a lot of other tiers of things that are related to horses in that circle in which we will allow no trees. Yes, only horses, horses no trees fuck the trees they don't want our horses we don't want their trees yeah sorry that's just how it's gonna be they started it not us as always i have been one of your hosts chloe you can find me on the internet as at lies in arbor on twitter tumblr and at liesNarborGold.com. And I have been Eliana, your other host. You probably know me as GlassTableGirl. Goodbye.

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