Girls Gone Canon Cast - ASOIAF Episode 75 - ADWD Jon IX

Episode Date: December 13, 2019

The Night's Watch Welcoming Crew receive a royal retinue and a grey girl on a dying horse within their walls. ------- Eliana's twitter: https://twitter.com/arhythmetric Eliana's reddit account: https://www.reddit.com/user/glass_table_girl Eliana's blog: https://themanyfacedblog.wordpress.com/ Chloe's twitter: https://twitter.com/liesandarbor Chloe's blog: www.liesandarborgold.com Intro by Anton Langhage  

Hello and welcome to Girls Gone Canon, A Song of Ice and Fire, Episode 75, John Snow in a Dance with Dragons, Chapter 9. I am one of your hosts, Chloe. You might know me from the internet as Liza Narber or LizaNarberGold.com. And I am another one of your hosts, Eliana. You might know me as GlassTableGirl on Reddit, on the Maester Monthly Podcast, or maybe you know me as arithmetric over on twitter yes this is like an anniversary episode the 75th oh what did our episode our

anniversary of just 75 yes 75 i don't know what's the 75th anniversary is it diamond right yeah so this is the diamond podcast i would have gotten you real diamonds but i wouldn't have done that no it's just not you i don't think so either i'm not i don't think i'm a diamond person no i i see you as something simple but beautiful i mean diamond has that but i feel like it's a little more eclectically expensive. A good round marble. I would take a marble and poke a hole through it and then put it on a necklace. Hey, you guys, we are back with Jon Snow in A Dance with Dragons. We're slowly inching our way across the finish line, but it's going to pick up pace in this episode for sure.

Lots happens in this episode for sure uh lots happens in this episode holy crap yeah but there's like another three people and it's a lot so many things i'm like wow then john did this then john did this amazing yeah a lot of talking yeah and the next chapter is crazy too i finally was like what if we joined some chapters and i was like nope these ones are not the ones to be joined we're just never joining chapters ever again sorry everyone remember we used to do two chapters at a time nope you know i heard not a cast they uh not a cast is doing a live stream tonight and that means half of it is being recorded in the room directly behind us so if you hear any bleed through that's why uh but i heard them i heard them doing a little smack talking before they were recording where i heard

them say oh yeah i remember when we thought maybe we might be able to do a few episodes at once and blah blah blah but they learned they're young i was like excuse me what's that supposed to mean we could probably still do it again maybe not the next pov the next pov is pretty yeah they're long chapters. They're pretty heavy chapters. Who knows what that is, everyone? If we're getting close, I mean, we'll reveal it eventually. Eventually.

Sometime in the next four episodes, you'll hear about it. So, yeah, sometime in the new year, you know, a good resolution. New year, new us. But for now, a storm, a good resolution. But for now... New year, new us. But for now, a storm. Our lightning round. Yeah, we are going to cover everything you missed between chapter 8 of John and chapter 9. First chapter after that being Tyrion 9. The Salasorian Koran breaks upon the water and Tyrion, Penny, and Jorah stay barely afloat for 19 days until a slaver ship arrives. The Turncloak. Snowmen watch over Winterfell as Theon Greyjoy hears Barbarie Riswell's bitter laments in the crypts.

The King's Prize. Stannis acquires a valuable hostage at Deepwood Mott, Asha Greyjoy. She treats with him, but he doesn't seem to respect her opinion very much on, well, anything. The winter winds blow around them and they camp in a crofter's square. The party is beginning to look thinner and ragged each day and provisions are low. Daenerys VII, the Dornishman, arrive at court. Daenerys has to say no to two more marriage proposals before going through with her perfect dream wedding to her number one his dar materials that's wait a second wait a second is this a crossover this is this is the crossover episode i mean it could be one of the other worlds anything anything's possible john nine the royal she's arrive at castle black salise and shireen a detour on

their winter vacation before they head to the, oh, you know, the vacation home, abandoned sacrifice mansion. Luigi's mansion. Oh my god. All the queen's horses and all the queen's men find a way to pick a fight all over again with the free folk, and John plays Monopoly with Tycho and Astorias. Oh, and the gray girl shows up finally on the dying horse. It's not who you'd think it is if you were John, but since this is a reread, we know who it is. It's not who you'd think it is, if you were John, but since this is a reread, we know who it is. It's Alice Karstark. Yeah, good thing that we didn't have to wait as long as John did. He had to, like, get dressed, go all the way downstairs. All we had to do is flip a few pages. Selyse, Shireen, and Patrice return to Castle Black with 50 of the Queen's men. Melisandre saw them a day before the raven arrived at Castle Black.

And rumors of Selyse's temperament have reached the men of the Night's Watch. So Jon brings a party so that they can seem substantial. So it looks like he's rolling deep. And apparently he tries to give her her horse. She's like, here, take my horse. And to any that are near, because she thinks that, oh, this is the help.

Selyse is like the worst. Jon really and to any that are near because she thinks that oh this is the help uh so lisa's like the worst john really wanted to avoid that so he's like i'm just gonna bring 20 of my best men which are like all 20 of his men and he brings them with him just so he can i don't know be less afraid of the queen he's like people she wanted people to welcome her right she wanted people to come over and clap i think selise legitimately did want that well and it's kind of uh that that parallel to tyrian right with the dornish in a way of bringing a party to meet them at the pass when they come in right it does remind me a lot of that the weather has improved for a bit it feels mid-40s with no precipitation john takes a knee to the queense, who immediately asks to see the Lord Commander. And John's like, it me.

I'm the manager. You're asking for me. I am the manager. Yeah, I have this headcanon. Okay. There's the quote by Selyse. First of all, this is a satisfying moment from John. Second, so Selyse, when she finds out, she goes, you, they said you were young.

But Queen Selyse's face was pinched and pale. She wore a crown of red gold with points in the shape of flames, a twintail that worn by Stannis. So the but that gets cut off. She never actually finishes the sentence. And I've been like going through my head. I'm like, what could she have been about to say? For me, I think maybe she's going to be like, they said you were young, but no one said you were so hot. Yeah, like they said you were young, but one said you were so hot yeah like they said you were young but no one said your butt

was so small and tight and it's like chill the fuck out Solis yes he's young mean thirsty bitch she only gets laid by R'hllor oh yeah I mean pretty much I think it's

thank the god R' think the god, R'lyu. The god, R'lyu. One god, one realm. A little brief history with House Florent. We've talked a little bit about some of those political ambitions surrounding them, but a little bit on their famous, I don't know what, characters of note. There's Flores the Fox is the most famous Florent character. She was the legendary daughter of Garth Greenhand, and she had three husbands who were ignorant of

each other. Her sons became the founders of House Florent, House Ball, and House Peak. Some of the tales are also told that Lan the Clever was a bastard that was born to her or her sister Rowan Goldtree. So they married many times into the royal gardener family beyond that lore, and throughout the centuries, Peaks and Osgraves began to brag if they got to marry into House Florent. It's a really prominent area. It sits right near the Honeywine, north of Honeyholt,

east of the Bandalin, and southwest of the Mander, which is basically between Highgarden and Oldtown, the big seats of power in the Reach. Right now, the current lord is a lacane alakane alakane honestly i don't know i was like this is one of the stranger of the names that george has come up with it is a little odd he's the son of alistair florent who was a staunch stanis supporter having to rule stanis's kingdom when he sulked after blackwater with selise

alistair if you remember goes Stannis' back to make peace with the Lannisters, going so far as to leverage Shireen in marriage to Tommen, exchanging Stannis' claim to let him be the Lord of Storm's End in Dragonstone. He's discovered and is imprisoned in Dragonstone with Davos and later burned by Melisandre in A Feast for Crows. Alakain, his son, has fled to Oldtown, and Brightwater is currently being held by Sir Colin Florent, Alistair's younger brother. In A Feast for Crows, Garland was planning to attack Brightwater, as he was rewarded that from the Blackwater, but he gets sidetracked by the Ironborn taking the Shield Islands.

You'll remember we discussed just a couple episodes ago that Stannis and Selyse's match worked great politically. If only Robert had any issues with the Tyrells, he could put Stannis and Selyse in place to quell any sort of rebellion or control the Reach. Renly's marriage into the Reach, though, now makes so much more sense, just aesthetically speaking. Marrying Stannis to a Reach girl is like what? Like a highborn northern girl, a Riverlander girl, Iron Island, something to bind him to the realm. But the Reach? Like Stannis is just sitting in the Reach with flower crowns in his hair going, I guess I'd rather die. Jon Arryn thought this through. And like you said,

they could put them up in place of the Tyrells. But Stannis was also like, damn, why these people, you know? Right. And it's funny because the Reach, I was just talking with poor Quentin from Nodicast on this, and he was talking about how like the Reach on the surface is like that fake aquitaine, but underneath it's like very much so, I don't know, plantation odor, like the crop and the wealth is there, but these are people that are willing to starve out the realm just to gain more power and because of that they do have so much power which is why i think it makes sense this this this match even though stannis doesn't get it he he takes everything as a slight yeah and we're about to hear a little more about the alliances that stanis has built for sure but first uh salise introduces john

to the princess and to her men first axel florent another brother of alistair's and this is our first look at him in the girls gone canon chapters he has a wiry beard and a neck beard and hairy ears and nostrils with short legs and a thick chest very characterized interesting yeah he apparently has the signature florin ears though oh yes can't miss those i do want to point out that throughout this entire exchange for all of it like with shereen there she's being very shy and bashful around john because obviously she's like oh he's up so pretty and it really mirrors in my opinion the reaction of marcella another quote-unquote baratheon princess to a quote-unquote stark boy oh i love that you know kj's emerald had just tweeted at me the other day we were talking about how john dismissing marcella's vapidness

quote-unquote which uh famously if you recall, you and I were like, that was dumb. Screw off, John. He was just jealous. He was jealous. But she also said, interesting that Myrcella has maybe some qualities that aren't quite as wild, which is what we know John is into as far as Ygritte and Val and eventually Daenerys. And I thought that was a really interesting observation.

I never noticed that. Interesting translation. Yeah. Myrcella turns out, you know, she can dish it out. She can take it. really interesting observation i never noticed that interesting translation yeah rassala turns out you know she can dish it out she can take it she's out there in the desert yeah she's surviving better than the other two truly salise introduces the rest of the men and a couple of them we've heard in passing in other chapters so let's talk about them real quick. Sir Narbert is actually Sir Narbert Grandison. Eliana, pay attention to this history lesson. You might recall in past episodes, we've talked about House Grandison.

They were one of the houses that pledged loyalty to Robert only after he defeated them in battle. You know, this time's not any different. I'm like, oh, we're in Grandison. I don't remember them at all. One of these days what Chloe says is going to stick with me, but I'm too busy being like Narbert. I think's not all like Viserys and Jaehaerys and Cairys and Laerys and Werys and Waldoys. I don't know. It's not all about that. The next person is Ser Benethen Scales, and that's literally all we know about him is his surname is Scales. Ser Bruce of House Buckler from Bronze Gate, which is northeast of Storm's End. Ser Patrick is from King's Mountain. It's a made-up place George hasn't put on a map yet. Sir Dorden the Dower, no information about him.

Sir Malagorn is from Redpool, which is unplaced on a map. Lambert Whitewater, no home to speak of, nothing from George, but the one that sticks out the most to me, and you'll have to let me know what you think about this because there's a handful of things here. Sir Perkin. Sir Perkin is from House Follard in the Crownlands. And off the top of my head, I don't really remember a House Follard. Like, I couldn't tell you a single character from it other than Perkin. Can you?

No, because I was confusing him with the other Perkin. Yeah. And so here's another confusion. House Follard kind of reminds me of House Hollard, too. Yeah, I was thinking that, too. I was like, I know they're different, but... Are they? Because here's my question.

And you might also remember it because there was Dick Follard at Castle Black who died in the attack on the Wall. So he is in relation to this house. But interesting that this prominent member of the storm lands and when i say prominent house follard has a sigil george has given them a sigil it's semi-canon of 12 red and white journey on a gold canton a two-peaked fool cap of red and white with silver bells and they have house words oh this house that we have not heard of. They have words. None so wise.

Fascinating. So it also completely reminds me of Perkin the Fleet in Fire and Blood, who was aligned with the Greens initially, ended up commander of the City Watch, crowned his squire, Tristane Truefire. Makes me wonder if we're going to see Sir Perkin flip sides to someone else, maybe, in the Crownlands in The Winds of Winter or A Dream of Spring. Some of these people, like Justin Massey and Perkin flip sides to someone else, maybe, in the Crownlands in The Wind's Winter or A Dream of Spring. Some of these people, like Justin, Massey, and Perkin, who are on the mainland of the

Crownlands, had to have joined Stannis after he sent his letter out because they weren't actually at Dragonstone in the original meeting. And then it's interesting that you talk about how there are silver bells in the fool's cap in that sigil because who else runs across the page just now if not Patchface? Silver bells Silver bells His antlered hat

has cowbells Hear them ring Oh oh oh I know And motley tattooed cheeks that's patch face that that was your uh quota for song that was your girls gone canon singing quota today apparently we that was improv i think yeah it was i don't think i've ever sung silver bells with a patch twist before.

Truly, everyone's missing out on the fun we have. Cotter Pike had claimed that Patchface was a simpleton. Rude. I mean, it's not his fault. It's the water's fault. And the last member of the Queen's party is finally introduced, and it is Tycho Nestoris of the

Iron Bank of Braavos, who has come to treat with Stannis. I do love that there's a quick line when Tycho Nestoris gets introduced and Jon's like, Cotterpike brought this up in the letter and it's like, this is all Jon could think about for a whole week.

He was just so excited. He's like, money! It's coming to the ball! Finally a chance at survival! Yeah. And he's like, play cool, a chance at survival yeah he's like play cool john he offers the king's tower to the high very very high maintenance lease he's like i'm gonna move to the night ford as soon as we're rested and john's like oh okay word um would you like some food and she's like sure then he takes her to Lady Melisandre in the King's Tower first.

John tells Selyse the Nightfort is still a ruin as he takes her to Melisandre before the food, and only part has been restored, but Selyse is like, Eastwatch sucks. It's a broken down dump. And Cotterpike sucks. And John's like, yeah, but this place is also

really a broken down dump. I have a quick side note before chloe actually says smart things salise basically conveys very very strongly that she disliked cotter pike she like finds him stingy and unpleasant and rude but i really love that john internally is like you should hear what cotter pike has to say of you he doesn't say it aloud but that's literally what it says and i am so mad that I don't get to read John and Cotter's DMs because apparently they talk a lot of shit about a lot of people. Cotter Pike has a lot of shit to talk about Axel Florent as well. I love that he straight up will just text John and be like, you do not understand the stupid shit this motherfucker is saying to me yeah it's like in the middle of the night Cotterpike's sending John out of nowhere OFG

and John's like and then Cotterpike sends like probably a wall of text poop emojis at 3am I know they ain't shit Cotterpike's like Axel Florent ain't shit send poop emoji poop emoji poop emoji

yeah this whole entire interaction Axel Florent ain't shit. Send. Poop emoji, poop emoji, poop emoji. Yeah. This whole entire interaction, any interaction with Solis is straight up like, can I speak to your manager? That's straight up what it is. Every interaction makes me cringe. I'm just like, Solis has a stacked A-line bob. I bet you

$5. Is that what that's called? I didn't know that's what that was called. Hilarious. Yes. The Nightfort. I love that Selyse is like, let's go. Let's go to the Nightfort. And Jon's like, are you really sure that's where you want to go?

It's like the family-friendly resort for this vacation. Have we talked about what it looks like? I don't think we have yet. We haven't done the Bran chapters. Luin says it's the only castle with steps that are cut into the actual wall. And before the restoration of one area that the Night's Watchmen have been performing, the fort was broken towers with tunnels connecting vaults and other tunnels.

There's a bell tower, rookery, a brew house, a library, dungeons for about 500, a bath house, an armory, a forge, a great hall. And the great hall, of course, is just filled with rats and there's only one wall. And then the kitchen is an octagon of stone with a huge roof domed and it's well stepped and there's overgrowth of foliage everywhere. So it's like small forests are all around it and a huge twisted weirwood is growing through the kitchen and there's trees growing through the stables and the gate to the wall not the black gate but the gate to the wall is sealed with frozen stone and rubble it's like a motley grizzly sounding place like it does not sound appetizing yeah it sounds like a horror like a

horror movie just waiting to happen like if somebody paid you money to stay at the night fort for one night would you do it no and i'm pretty sure that's why sam and bran don't do it either they're just like pretty sure let's just go through the mouth go through the strange tree mouth we can't stay here like do you think what do you think happens to those that stay there one night do you think they burn their daughter no they feed them to the strange mouth and the wall like then it opens up it it closes its mouth and there's no other side it opens it again and there's only darkness just like when johnny depp should have gotten eaten by that bed in Nightmare on Elm Street forever.

I don't think I watched that movie. Too scary. There's this quote from Mira Reid and Bran in A Storm of Swords 4. It is only another empty castle, Mira said as she gazed across the desolation of rubble, ruins, and weeds. No, thought Bran.

It is the Nightfort, and this is the end of the world. Brrrr! Guitar solo. Pretty much just, like, metal eruption plays. No, I guess eruption by Van Halen would play at the Doom of Valyria. Alisanne even told Jaehaerys of it, my cats.

It is so huge that men seem dwarfed by it, like mice in a ruined hall ha good call i know i was like your cats would talk about no i meant because brian said that the great hall was made of rats oh i was thinking about your cats as always it is so huge the men seem dwarfed by it like mice in a ruined hall and there's a darkness there a taste in the air i was so glad to leave that place there's just so much context in the books and so many things that have happened at the night fort that it's not a good place right like good things don't happen there it's where the knights king reigned where the rat king served his prince and bacon pie to the andal king where 79

sentinels stood their watch. Danny Flint was raped and murdered here, and King Sherrick called his curse down on the Andals of old. Simeon Star-Eyes saw his hellhounds fight here. Mad Axe walked the yard to butcher his brothers in the dark, if that's not some foreshadowing, I don't know what.

Arson Ice Axe was sealed into that wall that we talked about. His name is Arson. Like, what do you want? I like how there's Mad Axe and then there's Ice Axe. Yeah. I was also thinking it was Mad Axe, like a Mad Max or, like, whatever riff. I don't know.

Yeah, yeah, I see that. It could be. Anyway, yeah, it's Sleaze. Read a history book. This is terrifying and terrible. Why do you want to stay here? Night's Watch is really quite ungrateful. She's very outspoken about how unworthy the Night's Watch's accommodations have been for her, knowing what they've been through just now, you know, knowing that, like, they came up here because they were fighting for their lives and because they were protecting the realm. And honestly, like, she's pretty insufferable. Like, Alysanne

is also given quite modest accommodations and she remarks it and she remarks upon it all with such grace and she was like an actual queen i'm throwing the shade sleaze you're not a real queen okay yeah uh aliceanne had a dragon and she lived in the splendor of king's landing and again had a dragon and she was used to far better than sleaze and she graciously tells the night's watch she's like everything is perfect this is amazing thank you so much and like means it from the bottom of her heart or at least conveys that whether or not she truly feels that way and rather than diminishing the night's watch she does what she can to try and bolster it yeah she's and watching even the way that their quote-unquote court behaves

um it's just like this very stunted dark twisted version of a court right you have their fool is patch face like this is already very much like a um oh my god gory it's like a gory piece right like you have the little girl with the scaly face and the gothic black clothes. And I don't know, like I'm seeing like an Edward Gorey slash Nightmare Before Christmas-esque rendition of these people showing up at Castle Black. And it's important to think about for Stannis and his cause, which it's weird to talk about him so much when he's not here for once. I'm sure he loves it from afar, wherever he is, sacrificing his daughter. But he's not really on a hero's journey, is what we know to be true. But we're deceived by that. And it's interesting taking it into context with what we might see for other characters going forward. But especially now that I'm rereading it and just understanding him more, all of his various followers and people that believe in him for being a beacon for change or hope are following him on the whim that he could be the last one to possibly make a change. But for him, his hero moment in his mind is being the one true king, no matter what. It's not about the White Walkers, it's not about the others. They're an enemy to

vanquish to prove himself to his dead brother who didn't give him the acceptance he needed or the time of day and to his dead parents who are probably why he needs that acceptance from his dead brother who didn't give him it either you know like it sounds like this might be a thing but for us we want stannis's true hero moment to be something different right like fighting the white walkers in our head we're like oh stannis could kill the White Walkers. He says he wants to. I would like to see him do it. But in the end, to have his true hero moment, because it's not about what we want him to do, Stannis has to sacrifice everything to gain it all, right? To get that status of one true king. snap but shireen is what he has to sacrifice and he goes so far and that's the line he crossed that's the difference between the hero story and the villain story right like when do you find that line when do you cross it and when is there no coming back and the night fort completely represents that it is this hopeless fortress john says it is a fortress not a castle like you said

it's about that line and i mean maybe his hero moment or what what is going to be deceived into thinking it is right is him taking back winterfell right defeating ramsay and then you realize oh he didn't like you said necessarily do that for heroic reasons he did it because he's he thinks or desperately wants even though he says he doesn't want it to be the chosen one yeah um because again he has daddy issues that are also tied up in his brother issues uh life's hard salise though does not find east watch very safe for stannis's ear shereenen, wow, wow, yes, we're getting somewhere. And she thinks, maybe this is where the attack will come from, but

um, no. But you were almost there, Sleaze, you were so close. They're interrupted instead though by a shadow over the crew. But it's just one one. One one then tries to kneel to Shireen and Sleaze

saying words that Leathers had taught him of new queen, little queen. Oh, 1-1, he's learning their tongue to fit in, to assimilate, to be accepted by his new brothers. Yeah. It really makes me so mad reading this next part. It's like white people being awful in grocery stores to people of color that don't speak the language like that's what it feels like to me it's awful one one's out here trying to learn a language that he a doesn't have to learn he really doesn't yeah he has one friend and it's

leathers so why would it matter b it's a complicated language and it's made up like all languages so it's kind of like he's trying very hard. He's trying to live in this new land, behave how he quote unquote should here. And he's trying to be respectful of both little and big queen, Shireen and Selyse. And Shireen, of course, is charmed. But Selyse is like, don't talk to it, dear. You'll catch whatever it has. And it just sucks.

It's like a gross. Selyse is really gross in this chapter. I'm really mad at her and I hate her. And she's not invited to my birthday party. Gross most times. We'll get back to her. But yeah, Shireen is, as you said, super jazzed about Wanwan because she's like, he's like a giant from the stories. And she's like, but Jon, why isn't his speech very good? He tells her, well, Wanwan speaks the old tongue. He's like, but John, why isn't his speech very good? He tells her, well, 1-1 speaks the old tongue.

He's learning. And then this lesson, as he said, is interrupted by Sleaze calling 1-1 a savage and a filthy creature and expressing distaste at him being at the wall. And John's like, shut the fuck up. He's a guest here. And he says he's a guest here, same as you are, more or less. And he's like, y'all are the same. Show him some respect. And then all of S Solis's men decide to

show their distaste as well and Mr. Narbert says I thought that all the giants were dead and John's like oh my god you can't just like say that shit in front of people and Ygritte's voice uh repeats in his head again and he thinks of her weeping for the giants I love that I love that she is once more that background beat for him with all these issues concerning the free i love that i love that she is once more that background beat for him with all these issues concerning the free folk and that is kind of what yeah guides him right that's the compass guiding him and dealing with these issues and him going no these are people these are humans and obviously one one is not a human per se he's a giant but he is a people he is a people yeah and john knows he has to protect that yeah it's sad to see

this now and realize like these are a whole people that are all being treated like this by just anyone any southern person yeah patch face is adorned with beaver pelts and squirrel fur is singing in the dark the dead are dancing i know know, I know, oh, oh, oh. And 1-1 reaches for him, but Patchface hops out of his reach, singing, and he plops into a snowbank, which amuses 1-1, but 1-1's amuse starts to startle the Queensmen, who draw their steel, and John warns them they need to sheathe it, getting 1-1 escorted back to Hardin's with Leathers. John says he'll send food for them, and Leathers requests some wine, but apparently 1-1 escorted back to Hardin's with Leathers. John says he'll send food for them, and Leathers requests some wine, but apparently 1-1 has taken a very big liking to alcohol

since coming past the Wall, so John says that he will send for wine for Leathers only. This was really sad. It makes me realize some of what George is reaching for, I think, here. It reminds me a lot of addiction and alcoholism in indigenous communities. Dr. Joel Kettner is actually a really deep researcher into this, and I've read a couple of his papers and interviews talking about kind of the predisposition for alcoholism and what it affects and social circumstances and social conditions, whether it's in the United States of America or throughout the world with the family and community and society. And indigenous populations have a lot of patterns of poverty, poor housing, disenfranchisement because of

colonization and oppression by settlers. And those factors lead to poor social and community health problems. And studies show high rates of alcohol-related injuries and disease in urban and rural communities of Indigenous people that have these factors affecting them. And I think George did kind of speak to this. I mean, I think a lot of what we've seen with reservations and- The fact of the matter is, like, as you said, it comes down to social circumstances and social conditions, because these studies have shown that the rates of alcoholism correlate not to them being indigenous as a yeah it is only because of those systems of colonialism but ultimately it

it actually tracks with any other group of people who are in that same socio-economic uh place especially in terms of class and poverty. And as you said, poor housing has nothing to do with race so much as the systems around them. Yeah, and it's complete propaganda too. They're being pushed below and restricted from getting the same things as everyone

else. An oil line being installed in nature that completely pollutes a whole entire water supply or completely stops all crop growth um yeah yeah it's when industrialism starts to take over and humanity is being wiped out from it and it's like it's very interesting because i know there's the whole oh the white walkers are you know environmental and climate change and i see that in some ways but it's it's not the only yeah it's not the only and the way this world works that george has written it very much so like yes it's written as feudalism and yes there

are different cultures to introduce but it doesn't feel so different when you really look at the broad strokes of things yeah because it's not, right? Like, he wrote it now. Everybody has a lord. Everyone has a senator. Everyone has a lord. Everyone has a governor. Everyone has a president or a king or, you know, it's power is power.

Yeah, and George wrote it, of course, now. So any of those things are, of course, influenced by his modern day life experiences. Don't think this book was written now, Eliana. You're right. This book was written in 2009-ish, 11, out in 2011. It's 2019, everyone. It's a very different day and age. It actually is a really different day and age.

And I'm fine. I'm fine. This is fine john speaks to the queen's knights and his father's words that a man shouldn't draw his sword unless he means to use it true sir patrick talks back to him saying like i can't believe you're keeping these and in his words monsters as pets and john's like they're not pets okay uh you're the one with the fucking patch face okay uh guest rate is sacred here and one one is to be treated as a guest patrick asks john if he means to offer the others hospitality as well and then he escorts the queen to her towers, who leaves rather coldly for such a hot burn. Thank you.

Thank you. Speaking of burning, the flames on Selyse's crown are the warmest thing about her. I love that line about Selyse. Yeah, Selyse is pretty terrible. There's a lot of good lines about her. In Ned Stark's chapters, which we covered you know, covered a long, long, long time ago, and by that I mean apparently 75 A Song of Ice and Fire episodes ago, we talked about the imagery around Cersei and how before Ned confronted her in the Godswood and realized that her eyes

burned, a lot of the language around Cersei was portraying her as this really cold woman, as an ice queen, but then we saw that turns out she's fiery and very wrathful. Anyway, George seems to do something here, I think, that is similar, but he's shrouding Selyse with irony by having these lines about flames and her worshipping a red god and all these things, but that the warmest thing about her is only the flames on her crown that she is also seen as an ice queen but now she's here at the wall and just as we saw that circe was beautiful on the outside but rotten and ugly on the inside and just as we saw the opposite of that with brienne right she's mockingly and ironically called the beauty by people because she's just not physically

attractive but on the inside she's beautiful and the truest knight well george is like you know what also exists it's not just these like inversions turns out you can be like selise you can be ugly on the outside and the inside that's george's hot take. Unlike Selyse's daughter, who John describes as homely. She's considered ugly by many, especially because of her greyscale. But turns out she's really just a precious cinnamon bun, and

she's not going to be protected at all costs. Turns out. Well, that's the whole point. All costs mean sacrifice in her. The price. The price to pay is her. You know, there's your parallel with Myrcella, like we were talking about.

Shireen, he calls Myrcella vapid. He calls Shireen homely. Maybe he's just not into the Baratheon thing. I don't know. A Targaryen not into it. There's that line, that great line from Eddard, what is it? Eddard VII. seven oh cersei is lovely to look at truly but cold the way she guards her cunt you'd think she had all the gold of

castor leave rock between her legs from robert yeah and i mean interestingly even though stanis hates robert sleeping around absolutely a parallel oh. The biggest parallel. That's straight up like, Stannis just adopted his brother's way of regarding his wife. Yeah. Even though- Not that she makes it easy on him. Same with Xerxes. Yeah. Uh, but I mean,

Stannis, you wanted to be like Robert in a way, right? You got it. Congrats. Beggars can't be choosers. Man, you know what's horrible? I don't know if we include this, but Robert would congratulate Stannis on sleeping with Melisandre. He would. He'd be like, ah, I'd like

to feel those. And then Stannis would be like, oh. And then Melisandre would be like, in her head somewhere, she would somehow know the conversation from her fires and just think like, yeah, they look pretty good for 400 years old thanks Robert she'd be like I'm doing great

I bet you want to touch these 400 year old titties yeah good for her John oh go ahead you do it John calls for Lord Tycho to speak with him as the crew exits remarking on the three ships that he brought with him

for context, because I felt like looking this up, I was like, these are interesting. We got a lot of details on these ships from George. Tycho comes from Braavos with a galleus, a galley, and a cog. And all three are actually ships that were used during the medieval era. Some go back further than others. Like, I think the cog might be the oldest. There's a lot of different interesting hashtag nuance to all of these being part of Tycho's crew.

Cogs were something of a workhorse of ships. They are often associated with trade. They could be used for militaristic purposes, but that was i think the big thing that they were tied with galleys were propelled by rowing all these might have been propelled by rolling a little i don't know and sales obviously uh but galleys were mostly used in warfare initially but in italy somewhere around the 14th century merchant gallery merchant galleys started becoming a big thing and were produced by states to sort of do both a militaristic purpose, as well as serving private enterprises by transporting goods and large amounts of passengers.

And both cogs and galleys as trade ships actually have the benefit of being effective against piracy. And finally, you have the galleys. I might actually be pronouncing all these wrong, to be honest, And finally, you have the galleys. I might actually be pronouncing all these wrong, to be honest, which likely evolved from large merchant galleys, but were developed initially as warships. They are larger and heavier and slower than the regular or the light armed cargo ships of the galleon along with galleys. And I think that it's interesting. This is why John points it out, because Braavos is, of course, a place known for its merchantry and trade. So it isn't surprising that a city would have these sorts of ships with which to do double duty. But I think it is interesting, and this is why john's confused he's like these are really militaristic ships and taiko comes back to this with one ship alone may founder where three

together may aid one another and that actually makes me think of the idea of the three heads of the dragon of the balance between having those three different leaders or i don't know three branches government i don't know three in general balancing each other out but also working together to support each with its own sort of like strength but i do think that there is something and we'll talk a little bit more about uh that link between the military and and financial powers a little bit later but it is a little suspicious john i do love the the three pulling out that three we have to be wary of that because there's a ton of that peppered through john's stuff right now george is just laying it on super thick yeah he's like three john what's it mean

so taiko corrects Jon. Jon called him a lord. Tycho is not a lord. I love that little flash sense, you know, Jon, same way. Yeah. But he's willing to speak with Jon right now, and he would prefer the solar to the wall. Jon tries to settle it. He's like, come on, it's one of the eight world wonders. And Tycho's like, maybe another time.

Jon requests some mold. I'm good. Yeah, the heights, the cold, I don't know. It. John requests some mold. I'm good. Yeah, the heights, the cold, I don't know. It's just not for Chloe. It's not for me. It's not. John requests mold wine from Satin, who's not been upkeeping John's fire as well as Ed would have. They head to the room behind the armory.

The raven bleats a hello in the background as taiko confirms he's looking for stannis and that's the least suggested they send a raven to deepwood of delicate matters awaiting him at the night fort delicate matters just putting it out there at the night is this a sext i don't think it's a sex but i mean like delicately put you're gonna burn your daughter there anyways taiko is like I don't want to tell you. I can't. Like, legally, I can't tell you. But then he's like, but I'm going to do it anyway.

And he tells him that Robert owed some debts to the Iron Bank, and the Iron Throne stopped paying them. So now Tycho's like, maybe someone else wants to pay them. And if Stannis wants to sit the throne, then someone else might want to support the Iron Bank. Jon advises him Stannis plans to march on Winterfell, that maybe he shouldn't go march there because he might die.

Tycho's like, those who serve the Iron Bank face death full on, like those who serve the Iron Throne. So there's a passage I want to read, but there's some really interesting stuff in this upcoming passage and some of the stuff that Tycho just told us and what comes later. For now, A, Tycho's a gossipy biatch, like that's for sure. B, it's like he almost wants the Night's Watch to have this loan. Although he's reluctant at first, it almost feels like there's a bravosi agenda peeking out at us. He tells Jon that he can't tell him about the money, but then immediately tells him that it's Stannis and the Iron Throne. He then basically in those same words is telling him, I can make or break kings with the gold from the Iron Bank. He tells

him the Iron bank faces death much like those who serve the throne john's like i don't know if that's who i serve but he doesn't he serves the realm much like the iron bank who we've kind of joked is deep state but they make or break and turn the tides with their gold and other things in their culture like the faceless men yeah they've got a yeah they've got a lot of other tools that normal banks don't um i do wonder who is more gossipy taiko or cotter pike oh good question i should start a blog together the iron bank of bravos though i think you know with all the things that you're talking about is such an interesting exploration and uh of many, many, many answers to Varys' riddle to Tyrion about, you know, who does the man with the sword follow, the rich man, the priest, or the king? of these at his disposal to an extent like through Selyse, via Selyse

Stannis, right, and that rulership and Tycho, not necessarily a rich man, but representing the Iron Bank, and you have Melisandre right especially as Jon and Tycho muse upon how the Iron Bank is going to

back Stannis, probably and if he does, then that means that Stannis could buy all the sellswords and military that he wants or needs in order to try and win this war and we've seen that combination of military power and finance it's quite um through the lannisters and the tyrells uh they both have different kinds of wealth and abundance but there's absolutely a link between the two and we we saw it a little in that embodiment the metaphor of those ships that taiko was boarding onto here and our house valerian patreon episode that came out recently

we discussed the role of the free cities in the upcoming books and i think bravos is absolutely just a taste of it in this chapter it's just a teaser of what we're going to see because like yes bravos can make or break some of these kings here but there's going to be one contender for the iron throne that will be backed by one of the wealthiest men in the free cities who has a lot of sway there illyrio mopatis in Pentos. And I think Illyrio's coin is going to be a huge driver for success for Faegon and bringing in a lot of military resources, bringing other kinds of resources, especially as winter starts rearing its head. Because I'm not sure that also everyone in the Golden Company is here

because they're just really bought into the Blackfyre vision on the throne. Obviously some are, but some are like, I needed a job. Yeah, I mean, some are just broken men that go from lord to lord. Yeah, or not necessarily to lord. Whoever pays, or they're just there hanging out. And losing Illyrio's money can end up being a big game changer as well we've already seen that denarius uh breaking the slave cities apart has had a toll on the essos economy uh and i mean maybe you shouldn't have built your economy on the slave trade that's just like my

take but anyway it's highly likely that danny is going to end up turning on Illyrios and perhaps even all of Pentos when she finds out what Illyrio did. But also because if she throws in with the Tattered Prince, because Barristan was like, I made a deal while you were gone. Didn't I do good? I did it. I ruled, right? I love that Dany has to come home to all these messes and just be like, this is what happens when mom leaves to burn the cows. Yeah, she's like, oh my god. She's being like, Barristan, you tried, I guess, but what the fuck.

You guys trashed the house. Basically, she's like, oh my god, this vase was really important to me. And by vase, I mean, peace with Pentos. But, I mean, if Fagon, like like loses all the wealth that bolsters his campaign through illyrio i mean drawing those purse strings a little tighter is going to be

harder for them some people are gonna be like why am i even here and likely john connington who as we all know is already living on borrowed time because he's got grayscale is going to get even more desperate as resources start depleting and that support overseas and pentos goes under right especially with all the other interpolitical stuff with the other free cities and i think it'll be interesting this go around uh to see this iteration of who comes out on top when it comes to various riddle especially as he's doing all he can to collect other kinds of trappings of power, not just financial. You know how you said Jon Connington has greyscale?

Yeah. I mean, wouldn't you think that Rhaegar Targaryen would say it was more like greyscale? Oh, cop. Yeah. Metaphor? Is that who I serve? Jan Snow was no longer certain. I can provide you with horses, provisions, guides, whatever is required to get you as far as Deepwood Mart.

From there, you will need to make your own way to Stannis, and you may well find his head upon a spike. There will be a price. Price! Screamed Mormont's raven. Price! Price! There is always a price. Price! screamed Mormont's raven. Price! Price! There is always a price,

is there not? The bravos who smiled. What does the watch require? That was my taiko, did you like it? I did, I did. Could you imagine me having a curly mustache?

Oh, I was thinking of, ever since, what is his name, Mark Gattis, performed as Taiko, I'm like, okay. Yeah, that's true. And the hats hats I always imagined him with big floppy hats aww

Jon requests Tycho's three ships he's like remember those cool ships I want them for a single voyage and alone to feed them until spring and to hire ships to bring food in hold on quick thought you know who else is always like I want your ships.

Daenerys! So, both Jon and Dany into ships. Anyways. Double entendre intended. Tycho's like, I'm not going for it. Jon tries to remember what Stannis said about his haggling skills. He's like,

Stannis called me like a crone with a codfish and then he's like maybe it's true someone was joking once that i was uh fathered on a fisherman someone joked once that i was fathered on a fish wife and that is one of the red herrings that george places in this book in one of the other chapters where someone's talking about like so who did ned stark father bastard dawn and they were saying that it was a fish wife but it couldn't have been because because george confirmed to david and dan who john's mother was before the release of dance

and that's the first time that woman's ever been mentioned in dance. Maybe it was more of a lizard lion's wife. Anyways. So it's not going well. John's like, my haggling sucks. But a little bit of wine, a.k.a. a whole flagon of mulled wine, two hours later. And they're unhappily half drunk and they finally come to a deal. The three ships will give John a full fleet of 11 at Eastwatch once they fix some of Salador San's ships that had been left. The ships would sail to Hardhome to rescue Mother Mole and her people that trust them,

and when they finish negotiations, it is dark and snowing out. John asks Tycho if he might have encountered a maester, singer, steward, wildling girl, and baby in the canals of Braavos by any chance, which is very vague, but Tycho's like, no, you nerd. I'm a banker. I don't even live near there. It's a totally different neighborhood. I'm a traveling salesman. I work remotely. Yeah, I work remote. All the same, Tycho's like, I'll look into it when I return home. But Jon's like, no,

they're an old town by now. Forget it. You're useless. Tycho says that the sea has been very dangerous lately, with very strange ships in the stepstones sailor san's been rumored to return there lord red wine's fleet is in the broken arm but no he says other ships too yeah so regarding these strange ships that people haven't really seen before i do think it's interesting there's a couple of reading orders that one can do of this book combined with feast of dance combined with feast a feast with dragons

reading order has john 9 in dance coming before circe 10 and feast which is i believe the chapter where she finds out about or in waters skipping town but i do think it could be fun with the boiled leather order uh that has john 9 coming before cirsei X and maybe George could have played around with that idea back then when these were one book because I think that these ships could have been Orraine Waters in the Stepstones as the Corsair King.

It seems like something he could be interested in teasing and then confirming in a few chapters through Cersei but also based on the next line about dragons these could be john connington's ships he talked about valentine ships in um the griffin reborn that were bringing them to westeros but not all the ships you know uh made it at the same time some summer like god knows where and we'll hopefully meet up with them later. Ended up going adrift.

So as Tycho says, it's not Solid Wars sans because he's Lysine. He says these ships are from further east. Volantis is further east, especially as we think about dragons, which he brings up in the next line.

Yeah. I like that catch and I do think that orion waters his ships are there but this chapter is cushioned by the blind girl that comes next and like you were saying that a few chapters later if you're paying attention to different reading orders you would notice that chronologically there's a bunch of stuff that happens different ships going on but right away right after this, Arya is blind from the kindly man. She's playing the lying game with the waif. She goes off to beg during the day and she's near Pinto in Ragman's Harbor. She learns that there are two Lycene ships, the Goodheart

and the Elephant, that are pushed north due to a storm. And they find Mother Mole and her people at Hardhome who are like, hey, this is our bus. And a lot of them climb into it. Some do not. Mother Mole does not. They take some of the free folk aboard and they end up trying to sell them as slaves. The Goodheart ends up forced into Braavos by a storm and the Sea Lord of Braavos seizes it because slave trade is forbidden in Braavos. So, if the Braavosi have their own little hidden agenda that we chatted about, even in the north,

Tycho could be mentioning these exact strange ships that intervened in Jon's plan before he could execute. At the same time, the seized free folk from the Braavosi sea lord, what's gonna happen to them? That's what I wanna know.

I don't know. Could they be kept as hostages to keep Jon's word to the debt, maybe? There's just a lot of speculation as to what's going to happen with those free folk that are seized in Braavos. But it makes me think that Tycho knows the North is going to play a crucial point in the war, one way or another, in the War of the Dawn. Possibly old lore and secrets that maybe Bravo see, no, possibly Jon even being an important part, because later on, Jon says this all felt too simple. And immediately after this, the Free Folk get on those Lycene ships and not Jon's rentals,

which don't get me started, because this is really, people say Hardhome was such a great episode of Game of Thrones, and I'm like, you're missing all of the actual interesting parts about it. God. God. Yeah, also it's like, it's just like what certain people are doing with made up scenes on other shows where they're just like, I know this didn't happen, but what if we decided it did? I don't know. I don't know. Anyways, sidebar, sidebar. So Tycho does bring up dragons, as you said. John laughs and he's like, oh, wish we had one here to warm us up. And Tycho's like, not funny. All my ancestors fled Valyria

because of the dragon lords. Dragons are no joke. Super meta, the dragons are no joke super meta uh the dragons are no joke but in the universe they really aren't which is why the bravosi broke away on their own to create their weird art oyster world and i wonder if taiko and the bravosi deep state intel chain know this whole song of ice and fire shit right like know of info about the dragons need to be there to defeat the others or they know they're coming, you know, because they're like all knowing death servants. And they understand death, which it's like, it's the whole thing. Only those who accept death can learn to understand it, blah, blah, blah. And then Jon dies, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I get it. Tons of thoughts,

tons of thoughts. And I don't know, maybe it's tinfoil. But do you think Tycho Nestorius might come to collect his debt in the spring? But maybe it's more like a faceless man debt. Like, sometimes it's not just gold. Sometimes it's more than gold, right? Something important to you. What if Tycho tries to get Jon to pay his debt by killing dragons or something? Yeah, he's gonna be like, no. Yeah, and then maybe he sells that right to someone else who wants the land.

Yeah, or they tell him, again, they have Arya, which they kind of do, but also she's going to be like, fuck this. Yeah. I think that this idea of the Free Folk who are being held there, you know, if they ever make their way back north, there's like a million different ways for Arya to get back to Westeros. This is one possibility, you know know in their exchange and being returned north maybe this is a way that Arya gets over there there's a million different possibilities and then she's like pretending to be someone else and then she goes and she sees Jon hanging out with Jane

pretending to be her and she's like what the fuck is this I leave for two seconds I like the idea of Arya very Nymeria-esque leading free folk home. I figured she'd be sneaking along as part of it.

I mean that too, but I guess. Either way, I like the idea of her bringing a people to home. I thought that's kind of neat. Very Nymeria-esque. That's a cool kind of theory. I don't know. I don't know. I like it.

I don't know. There's a million different ways, all of which are probably boats. But as you've said before. A wise woman once said that Arya was coming back to Westeros on a boat. So this is one of many boats. Tycho says that lending gold to people gives him an appetite. He's like, feed me john and john's like all right we're gonna go to the hall and has sat and fetched them some food he's like you know what we might as well break bread while we're here let's just do it the cellar is crowded and most

of the men on duty or off are here to eat and some new people keeps everything very exciting for John. Maybe it's not always the excitement he wants, but whatever. The Queen and Shireen, though, are notably absent, but some of her men are here, like Sir Bruce, Sir Malagorn. Yeah, it's like when people from corporate visit and no one does work because there's just jolly good jokes happening. This happens at my work sometimes, so I don't know if you've ever had this happen but i've definitely had people show up from corporate and it's like oh hello this is what we do every day and now we're gonna talk for six hours it's very crazy it's very crazy

no that doesn't happen to me lucky some of the queen's ladies are seated together they're being attended by serving maids and some male admirers. I'd love to theorize about who her ladies are, because I don't know, there's a lot of stipulations surrounding, like, her ladies. So a lot of the lords and knights and men with Stannis are single and looking for glory and

their reward. Pretty much! I mean, they... It's funny, because a lot of them are just southern guys and they're definitely up there like oh turns out we're really racist and it turns out all the single ladies are wildlings yeah and it's like this is not gonna work out well for you you think it is well and they do try i mean like that's the thing, the next chapter when Alice Karstark gets married to a very mysterious, handsome beau that we don't know until about halfway through the chapter who it is. It's the Sigourn. But until Alice marries Sigourn, like, that sets off a bomb and all of a sudden they start making these marriages. much so like what we see in cregan start going south in the hour of the wolf in fire and blood and alice and blackwood saying you know like hey we gotta marry some of these people off because

there's no castles in the south anymore a agon his whole crew was just stomping up and down the stormlands right now right because stannis just like left his house there unprotected that's what you do when you leave your fucking front door unlocked. People are going to come in, Stannis, guard your front door. But it's what we see happen where there's no housing there for them anymore. So all of these knights and men are going north with the idea of land because the north has room to grow and people to marry off. And these soldiers are ready for life and land. And a lot of them are one-offs. They're a lower knight with no chance at glory at home that read Stannis's letter and decided to ride to join them. The Stormlands being broken apart, most

people in places like House Stedman were captured at Blackwater and extorted into fealty to Joffrey, and they also voted Renly first, so let's not get it twisted. The Wilds are loyal, although the Lord is older. Maybe a granddaughter or daughter might accompany them. Lady Shira Errol supported Renly first, then Stannis, but she dies and Lord Sebastian rules. He hasn't declared notably in the books yet for either side. He probably is just background Stormland. Lord Fel campaigns for Stannis, but ends up dying on the road literally he falls into ice water and

dies Fell is another one of those loyal to Robert people by the way with House Grandison but maybe they have some granddaughters or daughters the other problem we're seeing here is that this is so unnamed in background but a lot of the Reach women are actually in King's Landing right now with Margaery as far as single women, and campaigning in the north is not really glamorous. So following the royals throughout the freezing fucking cold and piles of snow is just kind of like not really great, especially when it's knockoff royals, right? Like they don't have a real throne. So I imagine a lot of these people are Robert supporters that Stannis is keeping too. I think a woman from House Massey wouldn't be outrageous, especially when you consider Rhaenyra had a Linda Massey as a lady-in-waiting, and Eleanor Massey was a marriage

candidate for Aegon III, and Tristan Massey was master of laws to Aegon I. I also imagine for Selyse's ladies-in-waiting, she wouldn't suffer a younger girl, right? She'd want someone who knew what they were doing. She seems like a severe woman, and I can't see anyone below 21 years old' home, and by that we mean Storm's End and Dragonstone, all of those being taken because he's left no one there. Because we see that actually being the issue a little bit later in this chapter as Alice Karstark explains what's happened to Karhold. She's like, yeah, as you said, all these men were like, yeah, we're going to just go. It's going to be great.

We want glory. And that's exactly what happened with the Karstarks. She's like, why don't you should have stayed here um but all of her brothers were like no we're going south we're gonna we're gonna fight it's gonna be rad and two of them died and now harian's uh being held as a prisoner so shit's going great and she's like great thanks a lot everyone and um i think that this is part of the thinking beyond like other magical speculation or whatever behind why there is that saying there must always be a stark in winterfell right because they realize that this is absolutely a possibility when you don't have that held and honestly

if not for theon being let into winterfell because he knew it so well and kind of snuck in because they also liked him. Because they grew up with him. They didn't like him a super lot after all this, right? Like, this is why you do that. You leave someone there who can inherit it so that you can't have what happens with Carhold or Stormzen or Dragonstone happening. Yeah. Or Winterfell

being sacked and given. And that's a weird no, you're right, it is a one-off. There was a Stark there, but it also was weakly there. Yeah, but two half-Starks because they're literally the size of half of a Stark don't count as one stark, Eliana. I don't know.

If you put them in a trench coat. If you put Rickon and Bran in a trench coat, A, Rickon's going to get injured. B. Vincent de Daltman is basically what you get. And that's, he's a businessman. He does business. Axel Florent is tearing into the food, eating meat off the bone,

and then catches Jon's eye and comes over to be like, so Jon, what's up? We're bros, right? And Jon's like, we're not. He knows that Axel's like, allegedly a tough guy, and he's not to be messed with. Thinking back to Maester's aim in Axel letting Melisandre burn his own brother.

He's like, this guy looks really funny, but he's also like who who does that who lets people burn their own brother in front of them but he's also like the whole time like god damn this guy is one ugly looking motherfucker interesting version of when john said he thought jam looked king-like. Because he's thinking, he's talking about Axel Florent and he's like, if that guy is not a kinslayer, he's basically the next thing. And I'm... Interesting that Jon just thinks all the time about kin and kinslayers. Just throw it out there.

Just throw it out there. It ties into later in this chapter, but also in that regard of who just lets people burn their brother in front of them. I do think that there is some hashtag nuance i will it's a strange thing to say about the situation because john's later girlfriend slash aunt his kid uh that happened that happened where i mean of course viscerys was abusive towards her and threatened to kill her child. But, like, I mean, that's an understandable circumstance, right?

So, uh, Jon, there are exceptions. Axel's not one of them. No, not at all. Axel asks to join Jon and Tycho, and Jon's like, oh, okay. And immediately Axel is like, so where's the Wildling princess? And Jon's like, not a princess. Like Janet voice from The Good Place, not a princess. Axel's like, I don't care about technicalities.

She's hot. I'd like to put some eyes and dick up on that, if you know what I mean. And Jon's like, nope, not a prize. Get out of there. And realistically, he knows that Axel knows. John let her go. And Axel's being relentless. He's like, oh, I'll go to her.

You know, just let me know where she is. Like, do I need to ask the queen to do this? Oh, I hate this guy. Yeah. And then he pulls the balls out and says, a word from her grace and I can have the wildling girl delivered naked to the hall for our inspection. Yeah, the worst. Yeah, I love that John's like, that would be a pretty trick, even for a queen, in his head. But out loud, he's like, she would never presume upon our hospitality.

Please, please don't, he says. Yeah, I mean, Slythes has already presumed on't, he says. Yeah, I mean, Slyzz has already presumed on hospitality or whatever. Axel just feels really entitled, for some reason, to ogle Val. It's really... shit. And honestly, I think Axel's pretty lucky in this moment that Val isn't here here and that he couldn't

because based on his comments it sounds like Axel was really excited to try and assault Val and I do not think that Val would be very interested in allowing any of that to happen nope and I wish that she was there because I would love for him to try I wish a motherfucker

would try I would love to see what happens just the outcome yeah i don't know i don't know maybe it's just me maybe no i don't think so i think everyone wants to see a valve punch axle in the face john says he has to do some hosting duties and leaves walking outside into very heavy snow he goes to his solar solar, he feeds his pet birb, reads over his agreement with Tycho three times, may I add three times, amazed at how simple it was to pull that off. He'll be able to afford food for the watch, but if the winter goes longer than planned, the watch will be in terrible debt. And the Bank of Braavos isn't your average Repo company,

right? Like I've seen Repo the Genetic Opera opera and that might be closer but he thinks that it's debt or death very meta just putting that out there this is health care and we get some very great financial exposition about the iron bank being the biggest baddest bank of the nine free cities and that when royalty stopped paying its bill new royalty is born as poor plump tommen might be about to learn, John thinks. Stannis has a really good chance if he accepts the bank's terms, some might call them extortion, which would pay for sellsword companies and bribery

to keep his seat. If he survives his attack at Winterfell, he's basically the king, John thinks. He thinks. Yeah. Stannis thinks. John wonders if Melisandre saw that one coming. Did you see that cold hard cash in your fires, Melisandre? Yeah, bet you didn't see that one in your fires.

Maybe you need a burn kit for that sick burn. Too busy making it rain. Oh my god. On the fires. Anyways. And then he yawns. He's ready to give in go to bed uh and then he begins to plan the next bajillion pages of this chapter specifically another letter to connor pike being like you will never believe what happened to me today

i love that he straight up is like planning a letter like he has a draft of it in his brain and he's like i'm gonna tell him about the 11 ships to hard home and then the free folk coming back woman and children first and he's like should i go myself or should i leave it to cotter pike and for a second he's like jay or letter ranging and never came back and at the same time i'm out here like yeah jay or was murdered by his brothers too so maybe you should think a little further john yeah but john's really into just tempting everyone yeah to kill the game he's like remember that time everyone mutinied and killed the lord commander no jazz hands you

wouldn't dot dot dot unless dot dot dot ha ha ha honestly though i think bowen marsh would have had a conniption if he heard John was going on this expedition. He would have been like, John, what are you doing? Like, on one hand, he would have been like, this is my chance. But on the other hand, he would have been like, are you fucking kidding me? No, you need to stay here. John would come back to the gates and like Bowen Marsh would have frozen them all out by then. Yeah, he would have been like, nope, you had your chance.

Cleaning house, bastard. then yeah he would have been like nope you had your chance cleaning house bastard he closes his eyes just for a second and he awakens to the raven cawing at him and molly's shaking him a girl had been found two leagues south of mole's town john asks if it's val he's like you guys know who val is like what do you mean and molly's like no it was on the other side of the wall john realizes it's aria he runs around to get ready and awake molly says the girl arrived on a dying horse that was lame the skin and ribs showing and that she was being questioned now a great girl on a dying horse he thinks molly says the girl was shivering and cold and could be found in maester amon's chambers with clitus john felt 15 years old again little sister yeah jokes on him aria is not a great girl on the dying horse she's

out here eating fresh shellfish right she's getting cockles yeah she's eating oysters all the time having having a great time except for the part you know, every now and then she drinks a potion, gets turned blind, and has really, really strenuous training. That's a lot. But otherwise, she's good. John, the sun is coming up as they walk through the yard

and John notices a red light flickering in Alessandra's window at the King's Tower and he's like, what game is she playing at if this is Arya? And what did she really have Mance doing then spoiler alert Jon Melisandre was wrong he wanted to believe it would be Arya he wanted to see her face again to smile at her and muss her hair to tell her she was safe she won safe, though. Winterfell is burned and broken, and there are no more safe places. He could not keep her here with him, no matter how much he might want to. The wall was no place for a woman, much less a girl of noble birth. Nor was he about

to turn her over to Stannis or Melisandre. Ha ha ha.... John doesn't want to let Stannis marry Arya to one of his men, or Melisandre to make use of her, quote unquote, because, you know, king's blood. So he thinks the best way to deal with Arya is to ask Cotter Pike to send her someplace safely across the sea once the ships return from Hardhome, or to have her return with Tycho Nestoris to Braavos, or see if the Iron Bank could foster her with a well-off family. Lol. Jon. Turns out. I mean, she's with the richest family she can be with, the Assassin's Guild. They're loaded.

Yeah, they are. I think along with all that, what's interesting to me is the hypocrisy in all the things that Jon is talking about. First of all, he's like, the Wall is no place for a woman or a girl of noble birth. Cut to Melisandre. Cut to the Queen. Cut to Princess Shireen. Second of all, the idea that he doesn't like Stannis marrying Arie off to one of his men and quote-unquote making use of her. Because I'm like, okay, interesting, Jon. Interesting. Considering this is exactly what you start doing in the next few chapters and with Alice Karstark nonetheless. Yeah, it's not like personally I don't have a problem with it.

It's just I see how everyone else has a problem with it yeah i see how everyone else has a problem with it i'm also like john man you were really out here judging stannis for that and yet here you are all those bars they make you swear and swear and he's like but i'm going to make everyone else swear and serve some marriage bells he begins to plan aria's brand new life and he's like but i'm going to make everyone else swear and serve some marriage vows he begins to plan aria's brand new life and he thinks of what sort of silver he would need to provide her since a he's rich now and b she's just a child she can't take care of herself cut to aria in bravos right now he heads to amon's chambers and the steam within the chambers almost blinds him as he opens the door. He steps over a puddle of damp clothing and finds a skinny brunette with brown hair and a long face.

But it's not Arya. Too old to be Arya. Wrapped in a wool cloak, the girl sleeps at the fire having had some bread and broth. She awakens and they tell her she's made it to Castle Black. She's 15, a woman grown and flowered, and she does look a bit like Arya. Jon says he's been told she has asked for him, and he says that he is, and she interrupts him and says, Jon Snow, we're tied by blood. She's really into reiterating this idea and calls him Kinsman. And I think what she's pulling here, it kind of reminds me of Catelyn Stark at the end of The Crossroads,

bringing up all of these vows. But here she's doing it as blood ties and calling Jon Snow kinsmen in order to establish his responsibility to her. She's like, you wouldn't just let me go out there and die, would you? Yeah, it's very smart how she brings it up. And it does show a lot of Alice's sensibilities because first she frames it with her uncle Cregan chasing her to take her birthright to get her married off to him so that he can keep Carhold through their son. John, she tells him, has to keep him from taking her back to Carhold. And John's like, oh, my God, it's on the tip of my tongue. You're what's your name?

And then he's like, oh, you're Alice Karstark. And she recants to him the last time he would have seen her age six she would anyone remember that people look very different after 10 years and they don't have fucking photographs anyways eliana can see someone within a year and not remember them so no i might remember maybe but i won't remember their name i'll remember like everything about their life maybe as you see them you'll have a psychic vision and you'll be remember them so no i might remember maybe but i won't remember their name i'll remember like everything about their life maybe as you see them you'll have a psychic vision and you'll be like i know them like that's so raven yeah i was thinking also that's so great alice recants the last time that john would have seen her age six she had come to winterfell with

her father john remembers suddenly oh yeah the one rob beheaded and she danced with both john and rob her father had hoped she would marry rob who was very courteous but john had been sullen yeah apparently rob told her that she danced beautifully i'm just like oh that's so sweet small baby rob being so courteous i can just imagine like as a child he's like someone told me you dance so beautifully that he's supposed to say that and again who remembers stuff from that long ago apparently this must have left a really big impression on this girl because she's like do you remember that john and john's like yeah and he's like

eternally he's like no i've been through a lot of traumatic stuff i have ptsd i can't right now I've been through a lot of traumatic stuff. I have PTSD. I can't right now. Oh, the boy's just finished. We lost. Alice says, John, you're still pretty sullen, by the way. And if you save me, though, for my uncle, actually my cousin, but we call him Uncle Cregan, I'll forgive you. She's like, okay.

She basically reveals that in a manner of secession she's the next heir to carhold she was originally betrothed to darren hornwood but darren was killed by the kink slayer in the whispering wood her father hoped to marry her to a southern match but then rob killed him so now they're trying to marry her to cregan alice doesn't seem to agree with rob's sentence and asks if john and her have blood feud. He says, no, they do not. So again, very smart. She certifies, good, we have no issue.

And she says she did not know who to turn to, but the last son of Eddard Stark. So I like the way that this line is portrayed, because I think it's going to be something we see again in the future. Alice says, my father never bellowed like the Grey John, but he was no less dangerous in his wrath he is dead now too though so is your brother but you and i are here still living is there blood feud between us lord snow and john's like uh when a man takes the black he puts his feuds behind him the night's watch has no quarrel with carhold nor with you and she's like good i was afraid and then like a bunch of other shit but i did want to revisit this exchange because i think it reminds me a little of that uh scene in the award-winning hbo television series that these books are based off uh game of thrones in dragon stone in the throne room when denarius and john first meet they talk about not wanting to judge each other based on the sins of their fathers or whatever it was

and i think that idea of there being no blood feud uh is that but i think so i think we'll see this idea again there the show was pulling from something we'll probably see but you know it's gonna be better in the books oh yeah absolutely and there is that whole line that we get with Tyrion, right? Like it all goes back puppets on their strings. Tyrion is, of course, very, very much so enwrapped in that sins of our father plot line. And it all goes back to that wanting to be them, but also wanting to be better than them. And like we said, that line, where do you cross it? Like we said, that line, where do you cross it? John is surprised at this from Alice because Carhold had declared for Stannis, but Alice is like, no, no, no, no, no. They declared for Stannis in hopes that the Lannisters would kill her brother, who last they heard was a prisoner in Maidenpool. And then they could steal the birthright from her once Cregan got a child in her. She says that he's buried two wives already and wipes a tear from her eyes, asking John to help her. She's good. Yeah,

she's really good, like this bitch. John says these are matters for Stannis, not him, and Alice laughs in despair. Yeah. First off, I want to reiterate once more, on the heels of all those Theon chapters that we did, that Stannis is so fucking lucky that

Theon showed up out of his camp to tell him all of this. Like, holy shit. You lucked out so hard. Second, the line here that Jon thinks of is Marriages and inheritance are matters for the king, my lady. I will write to Stannis on your behalf, but

You know, I think that's really interesting, Jon. It's very interesting to me that you think marriages and inheritance are matters for the king. Because here you are marrying people off, marrying off Alice, things like that. Because guess what, John? You're gonna find out that you're the king. Snow, Ned. Snow. Yeah, he's just taking care of his realm. Someone's got him. He's like, I served the throne.

Stannis sure isn't. She says that Arnulf plans to put a dagger in Stannis' back that he's shackled up with Roose Bolton for gold and a pardon. Stannis is walking into a slaughter. Alice knelt before him, clutching the black cloak. You are my only hope, Lord Snow. In your father's name, I beg you, protect me. Okay, Princess Leia.

I also, that's very true. Only hope, only hope. Actually, no. Literally, the only hope. But it does remind me of ned a lot parallels to a couple things barra when she begs for ned's protection i promise i haven't been with no one else uh parallels to liana having ned promise her and parallels to sansa too uh her wailing about lady's death and begging her dad um it reminds me of all those promises that ned made to people to protect them and keep them

safe and that line was that line at night he dreamt of broken promises and blood or blood and broken promises or whatever that line is just so haunting that is precisely how it makes me feel damn yeah yeah and here it's a little different it's not protecting someone else it's her asking to be protected yeah john does okay yeah uh i think he really does uh we'll talk we're obviously going to talk about that all next episode because this episode is the wedding episode but the wedding again like yes he shouldn't have but also it's such a smart move politically for a king saves everyone yeah it's showing good rulership and it sucks that we gotta break an egg to make an omelet oh my god john's the egg why do we why do we pick omelets i feel like there are other kinds of eggs that i like more

you know we gotta break an egg to make a steamed egg thank you thank you for breaking an egg to hard boil it nope that's no that actually you're right. That is the situation in which it does not work. Well, that wraps up John 9 in A Dance with Dragons. We danced. There were dragons. There was Tycho. Next week is a big episode as well. Wedding episode.

Wedding bells are ringing. The wedding! Yes, it is kind of the best chapter. I mean, it's like the last bit of happiness in John's chapters. Yeah, I mean, at least, you know, it doesn't sound like anyone dies at this one, right? If I'm not mistaken. Well, it must be a boring wedding. Must be. It was all right.

It was cute. Ludicrous display. You could just walk right into the fire. Well, everyone, thank you so much. For continuing to follow us with John. If you have any thoughts or want to keep up with our episodes, follow us on social media. You can find us at Girls Gone Canon on Twitter. That's C-A-N-O-N. Or maybe shoot us an email at girlsgonecanon at gmail.com.

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closely related. All patrons $5 and up get access to those special monthly episodes yes and as always i have been one of your hosts chloe and i have been another one of your hosts eliana bye guys the wedding and it's gonna be great