Girls Gone Canon Cast - ASOIAF Episode 78 - ADWD Jon XII

Episode Date: January 17, 2020

Finally, the time has come: Jon opens the gates for the free folk to cross into the Seven Kingdoms. At the end of a long day, Jon receives dark wings, dark words.  Intro by Anton Langhage --- Eliana's twitter: https://twitter.com/arhythmetric Eliana's reddit account: https://www.reddit.com/user/glass_table_girl Eliana's blog: https://themanyfacedblog.wordpress.com/ Chloe's twitter: https://twitter.com/liesandarbor Chloe's blog: www.liesandarborgold.com

Hello and welcome to Girls Gone Canon, A Song of Ice and Fire, episode 78, John 12 in A Dance with Dragons. I am one of your hosts, Chloe. You might know me from the internet as Liza Narber on Twitter, Tumblr, or at lizanarbergold.com. And I am another one of your hosts, Eliana. You might know me from the internet. So, I wanted to switch things up today. Which internet is that? Oh, the internet. You guys. Tubes. The penultimate episode in our Jonisodes.

I guess it's as good a time as any to tell you guys what we're going to be doing next week. Get you a little excited before we dive into this episode. I was going to say the next POV and I was like, tease. No, I would never tell them the new POV in the penultimate episode. I'm not going to give away the whole game of Thrones.

But I am going to give away a special guest that we're going to have on next week. I'm really excited. Eliana, I think you're pretty excited as well. I am very excited. Next week, we're going to have Shelly, the Lady Shelly, from

Twitter, from the Page of Many Faces on to guest with us. She is the biggest Jon fan that I personally know. She also got me into everything Osaga of Ice and and Fire online pretty much. So she is going to join us. But most importantly, next week's episode is going to focus on the Patriots because Shelly is in fact the biggest Patriots, the number one Pats fan, if you will.

Yes. So we're doing an episode only about Jon Snow and how he relates to the patriots the world's best sport team i thought you were gonna know what sport they were because i was like i don't know what sport this is turns out both of us suck she likes the one dude um gronk is that like is he a giant isn't that from that first new groove yeah i thought that too but then that like, is he a giant? Isn't that from that Bruce New Groove? Yeah, I thought that too, but then I was like, is he a giant? That would fit right into this episode. If he was a giant. And I guess he's not a giant.

He's not a giant. Well, we're gonna have to study up on some football before next Sunday, is what we're trying to say when we record with her. Sunday night football. Yeah, Sunday Night Football with the Lady Shelley.

So it is football. Yeah, it's football. Okay. I think. Don't quote me on that. Quote us on many other things. We are, in my opinion, mildly quotable, but not on this.

Not on sports, guys. Girls don't go sportsing, but we do like fishing. We do like fishing. Yeah, girls gone fishing. Yeah, look at us. Always looking for that angle. Stop. We will be announcing our new POV because I don't know if you guys know, this is

a reread podcast. We have reread these books. Hopefully you have too. But John dies next week that is true it's not even just like normal like a pov over john's dead yeah forever um as i i so artfully said on twitter today on our twitter account i said repent sinners because he's dying for your sins. John is dying for our sins, just as our other savior, Ned, also died for our sins.

But he just kept sinning, and that's why John had to die. He never learned our fucking lesson. He didn't. We got some emails and tweets of note. Yeah, we got them. We have an email from our friend Pete that says, Hi, GGC. Just wondering about your thoughts about Lord Commander Jon Snow renegotiating the timbers that were taken from the New Gifts' eastern coast with a down payment of wildling treasures.

Mayhaps lashed together and floated across the narrow sea to be transformed into lumber maybe using the free focus transportation there as a sort of trained labor force to a wood starved bravos a place where even the scraps of any kind of wood demand a high price using sam's bravos chapters as a price guide or they use that lumber in the manufacturing of ships as more than a few power players wish to build or replace their navies. Lord, not Lord, like Janet, is viewing a virtual gold mine as far as his eyes can see as he travels about this wooded north. So those are my thoughts on John's negotiated settlement of northern timber secured by the Northmen. And by that, he says, in parentheses, Northmen and Free Folk in the spring to get food now for this coming winter.

Thanks for reading and for what you do, Pete. Those are some really great thoughts. There's such a huge opportunity for resources in the North. And it's definitely kind of one that no one has been apt enough to make worthwhile in the North or had time to write. Ned had other things on his mind. He did think about it, but he just kind of got stalled.

He had to go South and, you know, melted. Adam Whitehead at Wirt Zone or Atlas of Ice and Fire has written a lot about the resources in the North. So has Steven Attawell. He's dabbled in it as well. I definitely recommend checking out their

blogs for more of that. But I'm going to be honest, I don't think Tycho Nestoris is going to see that money ever. I don't know how you feel, Eliana, but I feel like somehow that money is never going to Braavos ever. And that debt will, I don't know if it'll just be

forgiven or what but i just have a feeling it's not gonna happen i always get distracted when i think about tycoon this verse i'm like yes tycoon this verse i'm like oh yes sherlock and then we're just completely off the sogamice and fire train it's not like a deep thought i'm just like oh lol sherlock that's it that's the end of the script. Yeah, I mean, something we've explored too, though, is that obviously Tycho is looking at the odds of this and he wants somebody to win, somebody that's not shitty. And the North, if they somehow get out of this deal with Tycho Nestoris,

which I'm not sure how, but I feel like it's going to be like Jon's Night's Watch vows, right? Like, he's just not going to have to fulfill them. The North finds itself so laden with lumber and game and fishing and stone and silver, and the White Knife is often deforested harshly and sold. They do

have a strong timber route, but they could really do with some new logistics, like, or at least increasing White Harbor, increasing some of the manpower there. And I imagine that's kind of going to be that big endgame for the North. Increase of lumber to restore fleets, specifically probably the royal fleets in the south and the other kingdom. Increased weaponry and forging. And the glass gardens are probably going to be constructed to become more profitable.

I imagine there's going to be a ton of infrastructure to be built in the north in the long run. They just no longer really have this infrastructure now. No one's really paying attention to it anymore. I mean, they did burn down Winterfell. Yeah, they're not there at the innovating of infrastructure yet. They're in the rebuild. Survive, yes. But, but you know it's a good thing they have the boltons i rebuilding winterfell i have questions uh question one how much do we care about trolling

our listeners question two will you read this iTunes review Eliana I shall so you guys we had an iTunes review with the subject line fun way to reread Aswath I found this podcast recently and it's a neat way to reread

through Aswath going POV by POV rather than strict chapter order the hosts are funny and engaging debatable apparently someone gave a four star review because of the john snow voice and i am giving five stars as a countermeasure because the john snow voice is great we're really milking that john snow voice who said this we should give them i don't know i i also like realize now that we read it with no person named on there i'm like this wasn't me by the way this comes from rob in dot a but but let me explain to you how this is written because

it's r0b underscore in dot a. So Robin Aaron said this. Sweet Robin, I knew you'd survive. Sweet Robin, probably because we keep saying that he's going to survive, and that's why he gave us this. Dude, Sweet Robin is going to survive at this point. I will fight anyone that says otherwise. So thank you, Sweet Robin, for the iTunes review. Yeah, and I will say, to the credit of the four-star review, they gave us a pretty positive review and four

stars is good so thank you it's a solid b as i was telling chloe and that's that's passing that's more than passing yeah she had to take like an hour to explain to me why i don't know if i even deserve the b but i understand now and i'll accept my b no i'm not saying you don't deserve it i'm just like they must it's fine right yeah i think like they they still like us we still like you we do but we also like robin aaron i also like songstress on twitter uh at songstress7az they've been listening to us and catching up they've gotten through the slog of a bajillion episodes of 78 A Song of Ice and Fire episodes and they said catching up

on past episodes caught you musing about seasoned rangers what seasoning seasoned with time obviously winky face emoji and honestly brilliant this deserves awards obviously. Winky face emoji. And honestly, brilliant. Brilliant. This deserves awards.

Give Songstress the Pulitzer Prize. Are you a Sagittarius? Songstress, are you a Sagittarius? Are you a Sagittarius? The third head of the dragon. We're still searching. As you can all tell. Apparently Sagittarii are not as

common as you'd think, I guess. I don't even think that's a proper conjugation. I made that up. Sagittarii. You know what? You were honestly so confident that I couldn't even imagine. I undercut myself. You were saying

something about songstress catching up on the episodes, and I just want to remind everyone, you know, thank you for rejoining us in this new year. We took a break and really we just did it for all of you so that you could catch up on episodes, not for us at all. Yeah. For real. We had

a lot to catch up on. Well, speaking of stuff to catch up on, there's a lot that we missed between John 11 in A Dance with Dragons and john 12 in a dance with dragons so let's jump into our lightning round circe one a circe chapter first of all alone and vulnerable as a prisoner of the faith circe confesses of sleeping with the kettle black brothers and lancel and moon boy for all i know rewarded by the promise of a trial

her lord uncle comes with dark wings dark words what he doesn't know is he's gonna get dark wings dark words soon he's gonna die got him got him yes the queen's guard denarius's absence has grown stronger in marine as baristan tries to keep it all together. Barristan finds himself stuck between striking a deal with the Shavepate and keeping the Queen's city safe. The Iron Suitor.

A red priest heals Victarion's firearm. Heh. Victarion makes for Meereen. Yeah, Victarion is the kind of guy to unironically say, like, I was allowed in. Yeah. Because I was carrying these guns.

He straight up would, like, pull something out of his pocket. I brought my license. License for what, Victarion? My guns. Yeah. It's just one. Totally that person. Tyrion 11 the bloody flux presents an opportunity for Tyrion

Jorah and Penny to escape they head toward the second suns where Tyrion plays more than just a game of Savas and that brings us to John 12 John quote unquote betrays the realm

allowing sanctuary to the free folk from the incoming storm of others. He receives more dark wings, dark words from Cotter Pike. Whenever I get DMs now on, like, Twitter or messages on

email, I'm just gonna be like, dark wings, dark words. Like, that's what you're gonna respond to them? Yeah, immediately. Yeah, you should set up an automated message, like on, like, Outlook, or whatever. Or, I guess you guys use Gmail.

John, 12. Dreams of free folk and warhorns haunt John, full of gigantic dogs and chariots, and of course, giants. Feed them flame! John howls out, alone on the wall. He is alone with only Scarecrow brothers with cloaks aflame. John was armored in black ice, but his blade burned red in his fist. As the dead men reached the top of the wall, he sent them down to die again. He slew a gray beard and a beardless boy,

a giant, a gaunt man with filed teeth, a girl with thick red hair. Too late, he recognized Ygritte. She was gone as quick as she'd appeared. The world dissolved into a red mist. John stabbed and slashed and cut. He hacked down Donald Noy and gutted deaf Dick Follard. Corrin half-hand stumbled to his

knees, trying in vain to staunch the flow of blood from his neck. I am the Lord of Winterfell, John screamed. It was Rob before him now, his hair wet with melting snow. Longclaw took his head off, then a gnarled hand seized John roughly by the shoulder. He whirled and woke with a raven pecking at his chest. Hoof. What a way to open a chapter. Damn. Wow. There's like a lot, a lot, a lot to unpack here. And there's some obvious, some not obvious. John dreams this after having read about azor ahai and lightbringer in maester amon's books he left john wakes up being poked by mormont's raven that's certainly being used by blood raven and bran at this point hence the gnarled hand seizing john by the shoulder in his dream and it turning to a raven i thought that's very cleverly done george um it also reminds me and i'm sure a

lot of people of danny three in a storm of swords when she dreams during some of her turmoil with the slavers that night she dreamt she was rhaegar riding to the trident but she was mounted on a dragon not a horse when she saw the usurpers rebel across the fire, they were all armored in ice, but she bathed them in dragon fire and they melted away like dew and turned the trident into a torrent. I thought the feed them flame line was really interesting in these dreams because Jon is screaming to feed them to flame and Daenerys is atop Drogon. She's atop her dragon bathing people in dragon fire. And from the Winds of Winter Arryn chapter, we do know Euron has Valyrian steel armor. So that armored in black ice could have a literal meaning, but I don't think that's where that passage is supposed to be taking literally. I think it leans more towards the Daenerys dream.

Yeah, and you know, as you point out how similar to the Daenerys dream, you know, we've been talking about similar themes in Danny and John's storylines, especially in Dance. It's kind of notable that they seem to both be alone, right? Yeah. In these, like all their friends and everyone has kind of left them. And that's something that they struggle with as they make these decisions and become leaders. And I think emotionally there's an aspect of it that kind of reminds me of one

of tyrian's own nightmares where he's like killing jamie and it's kind of described he sounds like he's maleis the monstrous because he has like a second head and that one's like crying as his brother dies um but something that kind of unnerves me about this dream is john dreams of like killing some of these people right who are climbing atop the wall. And some of them are just way too nondescript to figure out who they are. Like, a beardless boy literally could be fucking anyone. Anyway, but he dreams of a gaunt man with filed teeth. And there is, in fact, someone in the story that we know is described like that.

It's Biter with his filed teeth. But John has never met Biter, so I don't know what's going on here. It's interesting, because he sees Biter just right before seeing the girl with red hair who's Ygritte. And, you know, finally, like, a lot of this chapter opening and the rest of this

chapter, of course, reminds me of Ned's last chapters, multiple of them, and, like, that this starts off with a nightmare, you know, feels to me kind of like a mirror of Ned's fever chapters, multiple of them, and that this starts off with a nightmare feels to me kind of like a mirror of Ned's fever dream, especially with the way that the Unsettled Bird soon keeps saying weird shit. That's a really great point. We'll talk about more of some of the Ned parallels later on. We get a little bit of Ned 9 in here too, not just that fever dream. John is swatting the bird away, and he looks out amidst the gloom. It's the hour of the wolf before sunrise.

You know, as someone who is fascinated by all of the different hours in this story, I find this really interesting because, like, you kind of think that the hour of the wolf would be, like, the middle of the night, right? Like, when the moon is biggest and werewolves and shit even though we don't have werewolves whatever anyways yeah when the moon hits your eye like a big pizza pie that's a werewolf um so it's interesting that we've learned that the hour of the wolf is a bit before sunrise so that puts it at like maybe i don't know four or five a.m depending five or six pending anyways it also i realize now then gives great context as to why

cregan stark's short time as the hand is called the hour of the wolf it's not just like funny because oh he's a stark and they're wolves but like it also speaks to that taking place right before that more lasting or truer, comfortable peace. And the aftermath of the dance that that's when the day comes out and they're no longer in the darkness of fighting. And one day we're going to finish up talking about Fire and Blood. And we'll talk about this more in a Patreon episode with the reign of Aegon III one day. Yeah, absolutely. We did finish up our Hour of the Wolf episode. That was our

oh god, what was it? Our hour. That was our hour and a half of the wolf. It was our part four of our Dance of the Dragons episodes and I would love, Eliana, I would love, I believe it was part four. Yeah, we did 4 parts on Patreon for our

$5 and up patrons we do special episodes where you can get a very specific special topic not just the usual reread and we have done 4 Dance of the Dragon episodes the 4th episode was The Hour of the Wolf however are you trying to ask me on a date do you really want

to talk about Aegon III? we could do that sometime well for this month's date is the maiden vault yes but future for the future yeah yeah i'd love to go on a agan the third date with you i think we intended to do that yeah we did so john is about to let 4 000 free folk through the wall he's casually kind of losing his shit over what a big choice this is he's like standing well he's like this is fine this is fine he thinks about how it should have been mormont or his uncle instead but that it's he who has to do it he thinks every choice had its risks every choice its consequences He would play the game to its conclusion. Okay, total quote, like

endgame style quote. I thought that was nuts. We're in the endgame now. We're in the endgame of thrones now, that's what he should have said. He thinks of a few of these more experienced people on the wall, but if the endgame of thrones is what we've seen bold strokes of

on the television set, it kind of makes me think of this line in different contexts. Like right now, yes, right now this line is completely fitting. Like I wish it had been J.R.R. Mormont. I wish it would have been my Uncle Benjen making this big choice to let the free folk through the wall. But what about later choices, right? Like will he be thinking i wish it was jorah mormont making this big choice i wish it was my uncle ned making this choice when he learns about his parentage when he's following daenerys uh what very interesting to think of this phrase

coming back to haunt him that's an interesting question there's a lot of interesting questions raised by this chapter i thought it was interesting because he didn't say their first names. That was what it yeah, that's kind of what triggered me to think this was just like, interesting that he says, what about or why is it not Morma? Why is it not my uncle? Yeah, which in which? Yeah, for later on. I think that's a really great connection. I'm not going to lie, when you're talking about Jon thinking it's fine, I thought of, like, in the dream with the fires, is Jon the little dog? Yep, Jon is sitting there amidst all the fire, and he's just, yep, it says feed them flame on his coffee mug.

Yeah. We should make that. Another thing that I thought of in this scene is like you know as we're nearing the end of John's life it kind of reminds me where he's like thinking it should have been my uncle reminds me of a couple of things towards the beginning of the books and the beginning

of John's storyline going back to Ned's chapters way way way back then when we were talking about those we had discussed how Ned and the gods would praying as his daughters fall asleep was kind of reminiscent of jesus in the garden of josephine when all of his like disciples are like we're gonna take a fucking nap go pray and he's like praying for his life he's like god take this cup away from me and like i mean i don't think it's

that like super overt in this moment but you know know, John, John's gonna be resurrected, like Jesus. It's a whole, it's a whole thing. But also, coming back to the beginning of John's story, right? Like, him thinking, it should have been my uncle reminds me of that line from Catlin. I think it's John's first chapter, right? It should have been you. And I think there's like a lot of bargaining going on in John's storyline as he goes through a gazillion stages of grief

making these hard choices like Catlin was obviously doing some bargaining too she didn't react very well to it and like John thinking it should have been the other person is kind of his own desire to pass that cup on to someone else the way that catlin kind of wanted it to be john instead of bran um he wants this horrible thing that's happening right now of making this hard choice to be on someone else and like that shows us that what john feels that he is doing and making this decision he's like like, this is horrible! He's not super jazzed, even though everyone else seems to think that oh, Jon loves it and it's power.

And coming back to another POV, Jon thinks that once the gate was opened, there'd be no turning back. And I think he recognizes that, yeah, you can't fucking undo this decision. This is his own crossing of the Rubicon to tie it

once more to theon's story like for theon as a reminder like he was literally crossing a river and that like signals to the reader that he was going to reach his point of no return when he was searching for those missing stark boys and for him it was killing the miller's boys and passing them off as brandon rick and like he can't come back from telling everyone, yo, I killed the Stark kids, even though he didn't. And from killing those innocents, he pays that price narratively. Fans continue to debate whether or not it was too high a price.

And Jon, same thing. This is a horrible position where he has to make that decision. And Jon's not going to be able to undo letting thousands of wildlings through the wall. And he ends up paying a price for that choice as well yeah and not to get controversial but i mean i think that he a he knows he would make that choice over and over again even if it meant dying. Yeah, for sure. B, I think that it's important he made that choice no matter what, because he saved thousands of people's lives.

And C, I mean, it all loops right back to Ned, right? Like what you said with the cup passing. It's just like that line from Catalan 2 in A Game of Thrones, right? Brandon would know what to do. He always did. It was all meant for brandon you winner felt everything he was born to be a king's hand and a father to queens i never asked for this cup to pass to me and uh that's what john's been running from but finally there's no one else for this cup

to pass to you know this is his cup to drink from, and it's the shitty cup. Truly. Yeah. It's not a great cup. No. And, I mean, that's the thing. Ned Stark died for our sins. Yep. Jon has to now, too. For our sins.

Our sins and his sins. Yes. Which was, like, a really good thing that he did, actually. Jon gets dressed dressed and more monster even squawks at him saying corn king and snow john snow john snow john is like really taken back by all this it's pretty upsetting you know what i mean i'll be upset yeah a freaking bird is just squawking at you. He goes to eat with his officers in the cellars so that he can forget all about it.

Fried bread, fried eggs, blood sausages, barley porridge, and thin yellow beer to wash it down because in case you're wondering, yes, we're running low on stores, but we're still a food podcast, guys, and they are eating quote good unquote. Yeah, it's still not

super bad yet, though it does sound to me like they're drinking natty ice and hey sometimes that's all you have i recently saw a little woman and drank miller light inside of little women well it's like better than natty ice yeah it tastes more like water yeah but anyway it's not champagne it's not the high life but anyway yeah that's true they go over the plans about the free folk again and bone marsh says you know if the free folk hold their end of the bargain there aren't gonna be any issues john reminds him that they need to work together as a team because some of these people hate them too they're cold hungry and afraid and i'm like yes john true i can see why you think that this is a thing to remind people that yes, you all feel the

same way. But have you considered, you know, hear me out for a second, John, maybe reminding them that the free folk also hate the Night's Watch. Yeah. Isn't a good idea. Like really great that you're trying to tell them the similarities between them, but maybe that's one similarity we don't tell them. You're all the same. You breathe air, you all drink water, you want to rip each other's guts out. You all smell like asshole. It's all good. It's all good. The same. the same he then goes on to make matters worse and tells them if anything happens out there today it

better not be from his guys or he'll have that man's head and they're like okay word kind of harsh right kind of harsh um it's something i never noticed how he does his like think one thing say another really shows in his actions now and he kind of thinks he's being a fair boss but in this instance he's being a little cruel ensuring none of them cross his orders like he's going very far to ensure none of them cross these orders even though none of them really want to cross his orders uh interesting compared to like where denarii sits ruling right now in marine and the power that she actually has over her people and her dragons even yeah yeah i mean sean's pr game not strong not strong in this moment someone get his people in the hr department but yeah yeah not good doler said leaves the table last having come in the middle of the night from long barrow and he was supposed to gather up as

many of the spearwives as he could to bring them to join their sisters and ch, having come in the middle of the night from Long Barrow, and he was supposed to gather up as many of the Spearwives as he could to bring them to join their sisters, and Chloe puts this in the note, Ed dunks bread in his yoke. Ed dunks bread in his yoke, and John feels comforted to see his brother. It's his only friend he has left, and I thought it was

an important note. It is important. He also has his dog, don't forget that. That's's true but you know dogs are friends ed gives john the update 10 years until the full restoration is done and he's one with the mules now this is literally what he tells him he's like me i am one with the mules nettles claims that we're kin yeah hear me out here again dolorous ed skin changer of mules he asks john not to let the free folks eat all the chickens john watches the sky lighten it's going to be a bright warm winter day ed says the wall will weep and that winter is upon them john John is like, what weather do you like, Ed?

And Ed's like, indoors. What a mood. Yep. He asks to get back to his mules, who love him, unlike the spearwives, and they finally part ways. John heads to the stables, where Satin had bridled his horse, and he is riding a fiery gray courser with a black mane that's as shiny as a maester's ink.

Yes, John, that needs to look impressive for his trip beyond the wall. So as he's leaving off, he has a tail of men guarding him to his dismay, but thank fucking God, Jon finally decided, what if I had guards? Yeah, I'm really glad, Jon, that you thought of this, the last second to last chapter

that you have in the whole book. Finally, I'm so glad you finally have a guard, John. I'm glad that you got it in the end of the book. It won't mean anything. Yeah. Cause he brings it to the wrong group of people. They're all dressed in black and adorned.

You know what? Now that I think about it, they've been telegraphing to him the whole time. Get yourself some guards because of us. Anyway, they are all dressed in black and adorned with different armors and medals. And John specifically chose eight men in their prime whatever that means uh this reminds me of sweet robin's tourney though eight men in their prime uh for those of you that have not read the winds of winter sample chapters yet uh if you're a patreon member patrons five

dollars and up have access to our elaine in the Winds of Winter sample chapter analysis. But there's a tourney happening in the Vale. And the top eight out of 64 that are competing in the Vale in this tourney will become part of the Brotherhood of the Winged Knights who will protect their lord. So I just thought that was interesting. Eight people for this honor guard and eight winged knights. That is interesting. Isn't that just eight? Eight and eight.

I knew there was a connection somewhere. So Jon chooses a few people. He chooses Ty and Mully. Ty, a steward, found Alice Karstark on the King's Road. He was shot at by Cregan Stark's companions on the road. Mully is who helped Ed escort Val off to Tormund. He's named actually for one of George and Paris'

cats they had in the past, named Mulligan, who was orange. And Mully in the books has a big orange beard and greasy orange hair, so there's a little trivia for ya. Hmm. Left-hand Lou. Lou was part of the great ranging that went to look for Benjen.

He made it back from Craster's keep loyal and alive. He also has a role for us in the next chapter as well so pay attention to that. Big Little, of course. We know who he is. Rory, he's the one who went to John in the Weirwood Grove earlier in this book.

Folk the Flea is just a guy whatever garrick greenspear is uh just a dude right whatever just a dude he has his men in other areas uh marsh is guiding the stewards there aren't any queens men in this group though and there aren't any boomers leathers is the last. He's there to inspire the free folk since he once fought for Mance. So a lot of these seasoned men are great. Little is in there to be honored, right, as a northern man. He's being

honored by the Night's Watch. This is a big deal, having him be in that safety guard. But John is once more catering to what he thinks will appease the free folk, whether he realizes it or not Rory is a good choice as a seasoned guy

from the beginning of the story and so is Lou but a lot of these people are just dudes in their prime and none of the boomer group are here yeah that's true he should have brought Othel Jarvik or something and been like yes these are the other my other leaders. I trust them. I shouldn't.

playing fair on that side too and i think he's not counting a lot of these dudes to have feelings about it he's just like yeah well they're gonna eat this stew and they're gonna like it and i think i wonder if it's because a he doesn't get it that he needs to play that game and b he's used to a different kind of night's watchman right like he was studying with donald noy and corinne halfhand men who were, like, willing to do the pragmatic thing. It might not have been the best thing for them personally because literally they died, but

they were doing what they could for the watch. Ooh. Yeah. For the watch. Okay, anyway. So, John softly commands for the gate to be opened. Something that stood out to me was this like one line it's the stars are going out John thought and I don't think it's necessarily very meaningful I love this line in the imagery but and and how John thinks that it'll be a new day afterwards

but it kind of makes me feel like it might be a nod to another sci-fi short story called The Nine Billion Names of God by Arthur C. Clarke. And it does also help set the tone for John's story. So like there's this visual effect in storytelling and like imagery, etc. that typically heralds. It goes by the same name in TV tropes, The End of the World As We Know It. And like it stuck out to me because it reminds me of that last line in the nine billion names of god which is the stars were going out and coincidentally like my first exposure to george r martin i didn't realize it back then was in the same anthology that i read this short in it was sand kings took me a long time and talking to cantus to connect i was like wait that short story was george i'm not to tell you like

the rest of the short because I think it's like I don't know open license or whatever the term is for it so you can just go read it online I wouldn't be surprised if it was a quick nod sort of homage to that especially because I'm sure that George has read his share of Clark and it does help set the tone in my opinion to like the end of John's life and the current order, right? Like it, it helps transition us into feeling like the story is going to go a little more apocalyptic as we get closer to fighting the others in the second long

night, especially cause he's like, ah, yes, the stars are going out darkness. So anyway. Yeah. Oh God, that's a great catch i didn't even think about that and i mean the stars going out is kind of like one of those very subliminal apocalypse now kind of feelings right yeah um in all these signs are really ramping up all the very blatant

cannibalism and you know yada yada it's a end times we just need like some dudes in the street preaching which we have kind of in King's Landing we do have some of them yeah so I mean it's time baby bring on the rain the fiery rain the locusts

feed them flames the honeyed flamed locusts oh they are spicy a flash of red Feed them flames. The honeyed, flamed locusts. Oh. They are spicy. A flash of red appears in the window at King's Tower, but no Queen Selyse. Big Little roars his command,

and up it goes. The sound rang out, echoing off the wall and out across the world. Ah-oo! Ooh! One long blast. For a thousand years or more, that sound had meant rangers coming home.

Today it meant something else. Today it called the free folk to their new homes. Isn't that such a special line? For a thousand years or more, that sound had meant rangers coming home. Today it does, too. Today it means rangers coming home, it does too today it means rangers coming home too oh yes you're right you're right but not all of them swear because that'd be weird

and fucked up yeah absolutely worse than it already is if you will satin led them through the tunnel with an iron lantern and john and his guard came second following them is bowen and the stewards above that ulmer has the wall with two score bowmen north of the wall torment waits with his two sons on a horse that judging by its condition could not outrun the crows torment jokes that john must distrust him as he brought a large guard but john motions towards the 4 000 free folk awaiting them torment is like well i want my folk to see you they've never seen a lord commander before i want them to know that you know there's nothing to fear about you and john's like in his head that's not that's not what i want them to learn about me i would like them to still fear me i want to have a little bit of rulership here i get i get what torment's saying though because he's i do think

that a lot of the conflict right that we're seeing between a lot of people is like misplaced fear yeah in the other not just the others i meant like the you know the other yeah no for sure john whistles bringing ghosts to him as he will not be cowed he has to be scary with his big wolf doggo torment is like you're a black-hearted bastard and he blows his war horn to commence the free folks entrance which lasts from dawn to dusk first it's the 100 boy hostages i hope the wailing of the poor mothers don't haunt your dreams at night tormund says this language is very reminiscent of what ned went through with liana to me and with characters like bara in the brothel in NED 9. And her mother.

The wailing of the poor mothers haunting his dreams. Promise me. Promise me. And news alert. Spoiler alert. They already do haunt Jon. Right? It even reminds me the comparison between these two lines from Jon 2 in A Dance of Dragons and Eddard 9 in A Game of Thrones.

If not for the way the candle made them glisten john might never have known that she was weeping and of course in eddard nine he thought of the promises he'd made liana as she lay dying and the price he'd paid to keep them um maybe it's something we haven't even seen on page right that it reminds us of like ashara dane we don't know what happened there kind of and we kind of know what happened there. Kind of. And we kind of know what happened there. Anyways, I digress. George told me himself, it's fine, guys. It's not a big deal. But it just, it really brings that strong sense of just, like, guilt.

And Jon hasn't quite gone as far as Ned with the guilt that's stacking up, right? He hasn't lived through an entire rebellion yet or an entire crusade against a king. But he will. Yeah, absolutely. Two stewards count the people. A third collects the toll. And all do the bookkeeping. None of the hostages cry or make a fuss.

There are no wailing mothers. And John thinks that these are Winter's people. Because tears would freeze on their cheeks or something that these are winter's people uh because tears would freeze on their cheeks or something like that winter's people are thin and ragged but they still came in every size and color imaginable this is saying every they come in every size and color that's literally from the books um blonde redheads brunette scarred pockmarked mustached bearded some wore fine fur, some seal skins, few in rags,

one was even naked, the armed ones carried spiked clubs, knives of bone or stone or dragonglass, spears, mauls here and there, even a rusty sword. I want to point out that of the hundred boys that are taken hostage, John points out that only one of them has an actual, real full beard.

Remember, they're between the ages of of 8 and 16 and some of them have like wisps of mustaches and i'm like of course you do of course you do boy that's so sad though it's so real though so this whole chapter is like really sad and i've read these books too many times. And just now, maybe it's because I'm taking time to smell the blue roses or something. But like, sadder than it was. It's all really sad, dude. Like, especially the descriptions of these people. It just breaks my heart. And I just want to help.

And they aren't real. But there are real people that need our help anyways Tormund is pointing out some of the higher born free folk to John still to watch out for and something that we mentioned in passing last week was that Jeff over at Not A Cast podcast asyaf said these chapters timeline wise came from George needing to do some filler work to get to next week's last chapter. The manuscript that George sent in March 2011 before the book's publishing was missing John 11, John 12, John 13, Asha 3, Theon 7, and Victarion 2. so it's becoming very obvious the second he and i had that chat that this world building from the free folk is making up for that absence uh there's a ton of hit and run free folk that haven't been mentioned before stuff he didn't put in a clash of kings or storm of swords the this first person that tormund comments on is one of those specific cases, Sorin Shieldbreaker and his son. They're

very made up, they wield axes. And Garruk Kingsblood's son, who says that comes from Raymond Redbeard's line, again, has not existed before A Dance with Dragons. Yeah, gardening at work right there. Yeah, absolutely. He had to plant some seeds real quick in those final handful of chapters i thought i would have five years but really i had five days grow seeds grow anna's gonna kill me um there's a set of cousins harold the huntsman and harald the Handsome, who were born from the same woman, different fathers, kind of like a nega left, right, Eric and Eric situation. Well, they come to love each other as they die under a crumbling wall in the snow apocalypse, apologizing for letting a woman be in the way of their brothership, do you think?

Does Tormund not know the difference between siblings and cousins? Yeah, they're half-brothers. Yeah, that's not cousins. That's brothers. Those boys are brothers, but the dads are cousins. Hmm, Tormund doesn't know. Maybe George just didn't think about it. I never noticed that. I'm adding this to my list. Oh my god, you have a list?

Yeah, I started making a list and yeah i didn't know you actually have a list i started making a list after i realized there were all these questions that i kept forgetting that i really wanted answers to right now i have what was the fate of lucerys the second aries the second's masterships what happened to lady eliasa flint's baby you might get a lot of these answered someday you never know i know we got an answer about sources from our good friend warren they are based off of actual sources yes they are not zebras anyway because of this harl the huntsman and harl the handsome's relationship i was actually reminded so harl the both the harls are not brothers but their children are brothers if they're

started on the same woman. And it reminded me of the brothers that founded House Charlie who also both slept with the same woman. They had to, like, have sex with her or something on a full moon and they would keep their youth for some reason. I don't know if they had threesomes or not.

Thruple. Thruple. It's interesting because this does have kind of almost like it reminds me and this is a stretch but of ned and robin john in a way because it's like implied same dad but different mothers yeah so it's kind of the opposite idea right opposite idea it's same dad different mothers not same same mom, different dad. Broadstrokes. And they didn't grow to hate each other in most ways. But one was handsome, one was the huntsman. And Tormund actually thinks Jon should send

one of the boys to Eastwatch and the other to Shadow Tower, which is interesting to me. It just reminds me of Robin, Jon, and how that didn't actually happen, even though Catelyn wanted it to. Yeah. Also, is this the parent trap though oh interesting and then they try to get all three of their parents back together yeah throuple throuple there were the sons of howd wanderer also and brog and devon sealskinner kyle like the wooden ear i love what are your

mushrooms mama white mast and the great walrus john pauses on the great walrus he's like excuse me and torben's like yes nothing else to say just yes well he doesn't say like yes but he's like that's his name some of the children were ones that hit closer to home for John. Like he finds that three of the hostages were Alphan crow killer sons. They're all half brothers. So at least we can acknowledge they're half brothers that Corrin half hand slayed. And another was a child of Varamyr Sixskins. Yes, had the same runty, ratty little look about him unfortunate they come across two girls who

try to sneak in as boys but Tormund and Jon both catch them uh and it's so funny they're like you leave us alone Tormund giant stink you let us go Jon demands two boys in their stead but Tormund says he'll take them a hostage is a hostage and a sword can hit girls just as easily as it can hit boys and they'll op their heads off and he thinks, or he says, pardon me Tormund says, a father loves his daughters too. Well, most

fathers. Yeah. I left Tormund giant stinking just for you because I thought it was so funny and I was like this might be Eliana's favorite part. If I don't leave it in, it's not nice. I have to leave it's so it's very cute it's super cute you leave this alone and i mean yeah he's right probably most fathers i mean these kids and these girls definitely have a stronger combat training because they have to live it you know i mean well one of them does yeah the other one less interested in it which is valid yeah john asks uh in response to torment's argument of like

you should be willing to take these girls john's like so you know how man's saying a lot of songs did he ever sing you the song of brave danny flint jordan's like it doesn't ring a bell he's like okay well danny flint dressed up like a boy to take the black and then he's like it's a sad song because what happened to her is bad and he's just he doesn't even like explain really just like it's a sad song yeah he lets that do its talking and we all know how awful and sad it is it's straight up horror just awful um i thought it was interesting he's like do you remember that one song mance sang all the time it was sad like mance sang a lot of sad songs dude that's true like a lot on his loot i'm just saying yeah like the dornishman's wife yeah probably sing Jenny's songs a few times

you know sing it for us man sing it for us a dance in a dance with dragons we get brave Danny Flint in the kind of first half of the book in one of John's chapters then we get it again here again

it's kind of that new world building here's a new song from george and i don't think this one has as many complete like this song means this and it's exact to the book and this and this thing's gonna happen because they talked about it in brave danny flynn but it does serve as a really really well layered blanket song for a dance with dragons especially with the female role happening kind of in feast song for a dance with dragons especially with the female role happening kind of in feast and in a dance with dragons especially in the north northern woman and what's happening glossing past people like danella hornwood who have already met awful fates

because of people like ramsay a dance of dragons wraps up jane and aria within brave danny flint in jane and aria taking other identities, and for Jane, the horror that came after taking that identity. It adds another layer in the song with Alice Karstark's arrival at the Wall. Her uncle is chasing after her maidenhead in Claim, much like the first verse of the song, and of course adds another layer of gruesome foreshadowing when you think about the Nightfort and Shireen heading toward the nightfort. Doesn't sound so good, does it?

No. It sounds bad. Things sound bad. And even Ygritte. Yeah, especially. Not in disguise, but she goes to the wall and... Yep, dead. Yeah. You could even add some creepy Little little finger sansa vibes into this if

you wanted to you know sansa her identity little finger using her god it's just it's a sad sad little song i think you're totally right about brave danny flynn i didn't realize it was only introduced in dance yeah i was thinking about it and i thought maybe it was introduced in like storm or something especially with all of the yeah all the talk of the night for it and with aria and heron hall before that and i don't know i thought it was something much more recent or i mean early yeah i thought so too so i i guess that speaks to like how important it feels for this book that it feels like it's been there for a while and speaks to George's world building, but also what you're saying about Jane and Arya.

It is played at Winterfell, I want to say during the same feast that Theon and Jane take advantage of to escape, but Wyman Manderly, I think, requests the song. He does. And has it played there so i it does some have speculated that it's an intentional kind of um jab yeah at jane but that's absolutely something that's there in the background of the whole book yeah john's like i'm glad that you see what i'm trying to say torment i will send the girls to on barrow and torment's like okay um i'll find two more boys

the final hostage to walk through the gates is torment's son drine he's close to brand's age and he has a wide red face short legs thick arms and brown hair. He's like a little miniature Tormund, who, again, just as a reminder, is shorter than we all thought. He's shorter than Jon, if I'm not mistaken, right? And Jon thinks about Brynn and Arya again, and Robb, who is part of the stage-setting dream, I think, around the beginning of this chapter.

And I think part of it is, yeah, Jon's dream, but also, as you were saying about all these girls in disguise jane as aria is like part of that overarching thing going on in the book but also these two girls who come to the night's watch and how they're presented one's like more meek and the other one comes in kicking and biting for me these two girls feel reminiscent of sansa and aria oh yeah especially that like latter one like coming kicking and screaming like Jon doesn't think it a lot but there's no way he's not like interesting in this moment because like his family's opening up this chapter right like and this day for him and then like it closes with him daydreaming and then dovetails in the next chapter for Arya being such a big driving force for like why Jon makes the decision that he does and then dies yeah and i mean it's gonna be such a good such a good moment

to read but you know in between all those words from ramsay he's thinking of sansa brushing out lady's coat and her singing he's thinking of aria with her skinny little self and her skinny little sword um very much so the girls are the resounding beat here they are what is keeping him going is those girls and in a way they framed all of cattle and in rob's chapters too when we were back in clash and storm right it was all about them and for cattle and it was getting them back for rob it was winning the war so that in his mind he had a chance of getting them back um it's a bummer dude yeah someone get these girls back for sure all eventually eventually find their way home that's what they're all going that's what they're all trying to do right now so john uh especially after torment has of mentioned to him what's happened in his life recently, I'm sure. But Jon already had plans to make Drin his page, his personal page.

And it's really cute because Tormund is like, now you stay humble, Drin. And then he turns to Jon and he's like, he's a good lad, but you'll need to beat him here and there. But watch out, he's a biter. At least his teeth aren't filed. oh my god gross and he's not gaunt uh torment blows the horn to invite all the fighters through next all of his volunteer soldiers step forward warriors with shields and leathers and furs and armor 500 withwives among them stir. Jon can't help but think of Ygritte because he sees the spearwives. Their hair is kind of coming out of their helms and out of their masks and out of their hoods, and he just thinks of her fiery hair and her face in the cave, her voice. You know nothing, Jon Snow. Tormund and Jon turn their discussion over to trust.

Jon asks why Tormund didn't send the women first, and Tormund says that he's looking out for his people. If Jon wants fighters, he wants Jon to make sure the gate stays open to them. He says the Free Folk trust the crows just as much as the crows trust them, and that each is worth six of the Night's Watchmen. Jon has to smile at that and at the Free Folk's pride. Well, I think what's so funny about that is it's a reverse. And first of all, it's Six of the Night's Watchmen.

When I believe the saying at the watch, right, is a man on the wall is worth five or like I don't know if it's five or if it's 20. I can't remember. Free Folk. Yeah. Something like that. So they have their saying that's kind of the reverse of the night's watches so i think that's part of why john smiles of course and

because it's i mean he fought with them he knows them and uh you have to smile at their spirit it is wonderful to have spirit right yeah someone's gonna have spirit in this time yeah john says as long as the fighting is safe for the common foe he's content and tormond's like dude i gave you my word bro it's iron my word is iron as the warriors file in many are the hostages fathers some of them look at him like they want to end his puny tiny five foot eight kit harrington life. Others smile like their long lost kin, though some of those smiles creep John out more than the murderous ones. None of them kneel, but he gets oaths from many.

Some like black haired Brog, Soren Shieldbreaker, red bearded Garak. Garak offers three of his daughters of his noble blood to marry off for John. He claims to be Raymond's kin, as Tormund had told us. Blood meant little unless among the free folk, John knew. Ygritte had taught him that. Garak's daughter shared her same flame-red hair, though hers had been a tango of curls, and theirs hung long and straight, kissed by fire. Three princesses, each lovelier than the last he told their father i will see that they're presented to the queen salise baratheon would take to these three better

than she had to val he suspected they were younger and considerably more cowed yeah the bar is low for that right yeah i mean i was finding i guess this is, is this strange for free folk women? So, yes. And I want to jump into that. John is thinking to himself after this, and he thinks like, yeah, these girls are pretty young girls, but their father's a fool. And I just love the way that's framed. Because critical thinking, for a hot second here why does John think this guy's a fool this guy is doing absolutely everything that the system

says will give you success right to the free folk he's making really smart political moves this is interesting because free folk don't do political things like this right this is a very weird display it's like we aren't used to in our time with the free folk with egret with torment with mance this guy is kind of getting ahead you could say but john thinks it's stupid because john doesn't believe in that system he can't understand why or how this man would sell off his family members for glory, for a better position, his daughters. Just like you said, everything is about Sansa and Arya in his head right now, especially Arya. He thinks Arya's with Ramsay. He can't understand how anyone could sell their family members off, much like Ned probably couldn't understand how Lyanna being sold off to a marriage she didn't want would be, right? Most of these men that Jon sees glaring at him, he sympathizes with. And some he even empathizes with after fighting with them. But for this guy to just be bootlicking this entire feudal society so fast,

the society that's cast them out violently and stuck them behind a wall, society that's cast them out violently and stuck them behind a wall, forced them to give up their entire culture and life for a plate of food and maybe a chance at eventual safety that they're probably going to die during. Like, yo, Westeros is straight up just pushing out the industrial military complex. How you doing, free folk? Jon sees the Game of Thrones as a mouth, a factory that eats kids. It takes them in, eats them up, spits them out. He thinks about already what Stannis would do if Stannis had Arya, who he'd

marry her to. He thinks about what's happening to Sansa. Bran and Rickon are dead in his mind. I mean, he can't get behind any of this. He doesn't believe in what he's doing. He knows this is the only option that he has to save the free folk, but he doesn't believe in the means that he's using to get it done. He's doing this to save lives. And if he has to put that behind a political message, so be it. It's just like, it's the opposite of what the free folk are and what they stand for. And for this guy to stand there and just try to sell his kids off, Like the last of the giants is playing in our ears right now. John made this choice to try to save them.

The better of the choices on the table. And unfortunately it's going to annihilate their culture and society as they know it, it changes after this. And this guy is just out here showing exactly the kind of person he is. Yeah, he is. And I think I kind of wonder a few things like it's on one hand he kind

of reminds me of mace tyrell and the way that he goes about offering his daughters um opportunistic opportunistic there's a part of me that wonders like maybe he doesn't know exactly how everything goes like they've heard so he probably doesn't think that the Night's Watchmen are going to eat his children, right? Apparently there's a rumor, Tormund says, that people believe that the rangers will eat their children, which is also funny because, as we know from some of Bran's earlier chapters in A Game of Thrones, that's the same stories children are told about wildlings, they eat children etc but i kind of wonder like does this father think to some extent that he's giving his daughters a better life i think so by doing that because like torment or is he like a response to some fathers don't torment saying that most

fathers love their daughters right yes i think it also comes down to the fact that he boasts having royal blood and he's boasting it loudly to anyone that will hear. And I mean, look at how they consider Val, right? Yeah. Yeah. So I definitely think you're onto something there that yes, he obviously wants to give his daughters a better life and give them security. But at the same time, he's quite obviously doing this not just for them. Yeah. he's quite obviously doing this not just for them yeah i don't know i think immigrating into a new

country a new terrain where maybe not everybody will come out alive you don't know what's going to happen i just would want my family to be together maybe that's just me but when there's ice zombies on the move and we've already had like tons of our outriders murdered by the others and like our supplies and people are dwindling i just i guess i understand where people would want to break away and go form a new life but i don't know i would just want to keep my family all together at this point before i start making political moves and trying to marry off to whoever will marry my daughters but unlike this, the remaining warriors bring gifts to John that are not people. That's good. We've got Devon Sealskidder.

He brings a sealskin hat. Cute. Very crafty. Harald the Huntsman, whom we mentioned before, brings a bearclaw necklace. So bring a bearclaw pastry next time. Warrior Witch Morna removes her weirwood mask, which is interesting, and kisses his hand, saying that they'll be

his man or woman, whichever he prefers. Also interesting. I just thought that was such an interesting... I don't know. I don't know, George. I don't know what you're going for, but I do love that she had a weirwood mask. Yeah, northern Quaithe. The passing free folk then

Toss their treasures into the stewards' carts At the gate. They've got pendants, gold Torques, jeweled daggers Silver brooches, gemstones Bracelets, goblets, and warhorns There was a word that stuck out to me And I just wanted to talk about it Like that there was a Nyello

Goblet Maybe I'm pronouncing this wrong So Ny yellow is like a mixture that makes like this black substance right mixes a couple of different metals and like what you do apparently is like you engrave something in

I don't know like some sort of metal it's typically silver and then you push the yellow black mixture into it so it comes out as sort of like black outlines or whatever. Then you wipe it off and then it's polished to be sort of like this flat black outline and thing.

Yeah, learned that today. Fancy, George. Thanks. Yeah. That's a fancy thing. That's why the guy's gotta give it up. That's it. Hand it over. Just like this broken sword with three sapphires in the hill sapphires i didn't expect that i i honestly like as soon as i thought it i had to

say it to you because i was like she's not expecting this i wasn't you caught me off guard bamboozled again tickled which interesting three sapphires in the hilt, because this has been theorized before to death, but it kind of brings me back to a certain sword with three sapphires in the hilt. You might remember it from a little book called A Game of Thrones, the very first chapter of A Game of Thrones, the prologue. He tied the dust drear securely to a low hanging limb, well away from the other horses, and drew his long sword from its sheath. Jewels glittered in its hilt, and the moonlight ran down its shining steel. When the steel, fuck, when the blades touched, the steel shattered. What? Sounds a little bit like Waymar Royce's sword.

And I think there's even a little uh nod to him later on in the chapter we'll talk about too but i do think it's at least an easter egg it does feel like an easter egg maybe significant maybe not george doesn't know what cousins or half-brothers are um yeah everything's been ruined like now that i know that george doesn't understand how relatives work i mean to be to be fair, neither do we. We had to puzzle it up. We're like, this is definitely not on us, right? As only children.

This is like objectively like this, right? Just because we don't understand how families work. After the pearls and silver scales and the toy mammoths, which is made out of mammoth hair. I want to point that out. It sounds great. I want one. No, you do not. Why not?

It sounds so cool. I also like that this is like the weird category. He was like, so yeah, then all the weird shit came. They're great. But someone treasured them. They gave that as their treasure. Like the mammoths and a hell made from unicorn head, an ivory phallus, a bunch of other things that are just odd and maybe allegedly not worth much.

I love that there's just like, hey, here's an ivory tusk that's shaped like a dick. It's my family's riches. No, it's a treasure because that's a dildo, all right? That's important to that person. And I feel that. I get that. They don't even have batteries, though. The battery's the hand. fucking useless it's not a vibrator it's a dildo useless you can have it it's both it's

i can't tell if i want to make the pun the fucking useless or not but no go on okay i will go on because i want to say that this chapter actually is a confirmation of the existence of unicorns in this world like obviously we assumed because it's a fantasy story fantasy story when we are told that there are unicorns there are probably actually fucking unicorns but you know we were kind of told it isn't like it's in that far away weird place that we don't really get skagos allegedly there are unicorns and then we like kind of see it through a dream but is it a dream or not but here all right we have this helm made from a unicorn head shit's real i it definitely makes me wonder if there was a brax at the wall and i feel like there might have been i

can't really remember so maybe i'm just making it up i just can't remember but it makes me wonder if there was a brax at the wall and i feel like there might have been i can't really remember so maybe i'm just making it up i just can't remember but it makes me wonder if there's a unicorn helm can be the name's fucking hornbill yeah up next come a wave of men from the frozen shore the horn foot men with their big bone chariots drawn by fearsome huge dogs. Give them to me! No, you can't have them, Eliana. I'm sorry. We can't afford a dog right now. It's Balto! The women are in seal skins, some with infants

at the breast, and other children shuffle beside these women, all with hard, dark eyes. The men are broken apart into two groups, antlers and tusks, and they do not like the other group. They come snapping up the ice, you know. The reindeer bring up the rear behind them.

They've got reindeer. Tormund warns Jon of the frozen shore gang. He's like, the women are worse than the men, and the men are bad enough with all their snapping back and forth. He offers Jon his skin of super strong mead, and Jon's like yep gonna need a big swig of that so john takes a swig lets it burn his nostrils he tells torment he's a good man for a wildling and they have a laugh ha ha ha ha at midday an ox cart gets stuck in the tunnel

entrance the free folk are starting to get angry with each other about it uh and john and torment and torah go down they take care of business they make it happen but it does take about an hour torment jokes if he had german's horn he'd have made this tunnel problem easier for all of them but john counters that melisandre burnt it when she burned vance. Ah, two lies is what just happened. There were two whole lies. So Torm encounters that Mance actually lied. It wasn't the real horn of Joramun. He just wanted you guys to think it was so we could have a little power as a treat.

Up, up, Sir Night. And then john thinks if months his horn was just a faint where is the true horn it's the ivory dildo the day begins to turn gray and windy and torment announces it's gonna snow they begin to move faster and tempers start to get bad there are just a couple of casual stabbings nothing crazy uh john has casual john has torment tell him what he knows of the others but torment's like we could talk about it when we're on your side of the wall and then he proceeds to actually tell them everything about the others in an exposition passage no matter what even though he said he wasn't going to. So they killed off the free folks,

outriders bit by bit. They ring their camps with fire, but snow and sleet would sometimes make it impossible. And he tells John that white mists would rise in the night to kill. He asks if John can fight that cold with just his sword. Hmm. A lot of interesting things going on here. Very reminiscent of Mormont, Lord Commander Mormont's strategy,

his Mormont's Ring of Fire. Mm-hmm. But what are your thoughts on the mist? When I was reading this, it's like, Chloe, what do you think? Right, but what does it mean? Um, I don't know. This time I'm not saying that sarcastically.

I'm like, Chloeloe tell me what it means i actually mean this question i mean i think it does denote supernaturalism any mist is basically supernatural right like if you have an eerie mist it's likely supernatural i don't think it's anything awe-inspiring like oh like how the gray mists denote brand and Bloodraven but I do think it's very much so saying of a supernatural mist and we've all been on those foggy mornings right you leave the house there's a fog in the air it all feels eerie nothing happens

because it's real life not a video game but it is all very Silent Hill I like I feel just reading it I'm waiting for the to go off Jon says if the gods are good then he won't have to know if he can try to fight the cold of the sword and torment's like well the gods are seldom good ain't that the truth someone's fucking saying it yeah torment points towards the

skies and clouds on the oncoming cold then he points at the wall he's like it's no longer weeping we gotta hurry this shit up Tormund tells Toreg the same to put some movement behind the people because the gate is closing at nightfall for obvious reasons and then Jon realizes that oh the free folk are

like actually really truly afraid of the cold ones and they want distance between the woods and themselves which like fair the snow then begins to fall dance with me Jon Snow he thought

you'll dance with me anon so first off I want to pull this out there you know people talk about unreliable narrators it's like not a big deal but john doesn't even remember the quote right and it happened like two fucking chapters ago he was talking to alice karstark you know it was at the wedding granted he was probably a little bit drunk it was a wedding right he's drinking his natty lights apparently and alice says to him you could dance with me you

know it would only be courteous you dance with me anon and so so the tenses are kind of changed here right here it becomes imperative dance with me john snow and then a sort of not really prophetic but like future tense of you will dance with me and not as opposed to like you used to dance with me but beyond that speaking of swords with sapphires in its hilt as chloe discussed the language here is absolutely a reflection of the iconic line from waymar royce's like single act of courage though it was great great great job where he says dance with me then against the monsters of snow and ice even though he knows he can't win as john you know is also staring at he's he described the snow sort of as dancing as well so interesting oh really good dance with dragons

even see i told you george meant. It has to be that sword. I say so. What about cousins? Okay, listen, that was a fluke. Just because George doesn't know how families work. Which, yeah, anyway. What was once a field now of white snow is now black and slimy

with mud and footsteps the worst. And by the end of the afternoon it's snowing heavily and wildlings have dwindled down to a stream. Toreg has been burning the dead by the camp. Uh, yeah. Tormund is like, Toreg knows what to do, like really casually.

And I'm just like, oh, probably because he had to bury his brother and burn him. Honestly, I didn't think about that, but you're absolutely right. Yeah, I like, I didn't think about it till I read this. And when he just said Toreg knows what to do. I'm like, oh, that poor, poor, nice boy.

Yeah. Like, Drin is getting the special hookup treatment right now. Getting to be like Lord Commander's page and shit. Because like, you can obviously see that look torment gives him like oh like drin is my heir he's my hope yeah he's like you're gonna have to beat him a bit but he's like also that kid's gonna eat so good yeah it's really sad like that's his young one and that's his hope that maybe drin can live a better life you know than what Toreg had to do that Toreg you know had to learn to burn people to

keep his people safe and hopefully that's not what they have to do now we didn't hear Munda mentioned in this chapter did we no he kept it uh just between these two yeah well secrets secrets No, he kept it just between these two. Yeah.

Well. Secrets, secrets. Torag brings Tormund's rearguard. When he returns, one of the men brings a boar that's twice the size of Ghost with him. This is Borag that we met earlier very briefly. He's a skin changer, which Jon immediately detects. He's like, excuse me, another? He's like, oh. It's like into the spider-verse when the things

happen. He's like, you can't sit with us. Uh. And Ghost detects this too, snarling at the hairy, ugly boar, which be nice, Ghost. He might not be ugly, because I personally, we don't even really know anything about him,

but I'm like, I love Borok and his boar. They're the great. We were introduced to them also in Varamyr's prologue a long time ago. But anyway, like, there's a moment where Ghost and the boar don't really get along. And then Tormund's like, boars and wolves, like, as though this is a usual thing, and warns them to keep Ghost locked up. And I feel like this is another one of those specters of Ned Stark hanging over the chapter. Because we do have, again, if you will all remember, a boar.

A very, very significant boar. At the beginning of the entire story. And while he wasn't really a player in the Game of Thrones because he died. That was a big part. But also also Robert died because of said boar. You know what, that boar fucked shit up for Ned. Wait, are you saying there's a boar and then

a king dies? There's something in there, I don't know. Or something there, but I'm here to learn more about Borak and his boar friend. I hope he names him something that's not very boring. Oh.

Tormund recommends that Jon lock up Ghost and he'll be sure Borak does the same. Tormund decides that it's time to pass through the gate and see what's on the other side. Jon says, go on, I'll see you at the feast. He means to be the last one in.

So Jon means to wait for everyone to get through and he means to close up his gate since he has the wall. Bowen Marsh leaves, watching his stewards pull the last carts into the tunnel. And then Jon and his guards remain. Borok stops 10 yards away. His monster looks at him like they're going to have a standoff. Jon is like, you better move. I need to close the gate, and Borat gives him a very dark warning to close it very good and tight because they're coming, crow. 3,119 free folk ended up passing through the gate. Bowen later tells him, 60 hostages went to Eastwatch, the Shadow Tower once fed, Ed took six wagons of women to Long Barrow, and the rest remain at the

watch but not for long john tells marsh that tormund will take his own people to oak and shield within the next days and that the rest will go where they are told to go marsh is like yeah sure in a tone that obviously means fuck off yeah i'm sorry i'm still tickled by the boring pun i was trying to be like reserved but you found the perfect way to bring it in. I'm still on it. I would like to point out, regarding this number 3,119 free folk, Marsh's estimations, based on the fires from last chapter,

were in fact closer to accurate than the numbers that Tormund gave. It is closer to 3,000 than to 4,000. But, I mean, part of that, of course, is because, like, as Chloe said last time, a census is hard when it's a bunch of different tribes and also the others keep killing everyone. So. Yeah, not just the others, dude, like illness and,

I mean, wasn't there a line last chapter where it was like they found a bunch of dead kids? I mean, it's kind of depressing, dude, wasn't there a line last chapter where it was like they found a bunch of dead kids? I mean, it's kind of depressing, dude. Like, there's sickness and cold everywhere and people just keep dying. They're losing people as they go, which is why we're letting them through, Bowen. In case you forgot, Bowen. I just feel like we should remind him.

But apparently he's got pretty good night fire guesstimation skills. Well, good, because he's got a lot of asshole skills, too. Oh my god. The atmosphere changed within the walls of Castle Black. It was usually silent and creepy, but now there's more light streaming in. Turns out John loves having

parties and people around. Maybe John's secretly an extrovert. He's an extroverted introvert, or whatever. He likes the strange voices and the free folk walking the icy paths only walked by the Black Brothers. And then he comes across men having a snowball fight. This is beautiful. Playing, John thought in astonishment. Grown men playing like children, throwing snowballs the way Bronn and Arya once did, and Robb and me before them. Danil Noy's old armory was still dark and silent, however, and Jon's rooms back off the cold forge darker still,

but he had no sooner taken off his cloak than Danil poked his head through the door to announce Clytus had brought a message. That little dream bubble just goes, bloop! announce Clytus had brought a message. That little dream bubble just goes bloop! And also there's a lot of similar Dany stuff going on. Like, this reminds me of her, you know, like she's seeing all the happiness in her

kingdom and seeing, like, oh good, like Missandei's off doing stuff and being 11 and smart and my ladies in waiting are all off being happy and trying to, like, you know, flirt and make new fun things to do here, my handmaids. But then she returns lonely to her chamber to deal with work.

Yeah. They're totally going to relate. And more than on me. Sexually, mostly. Oh, I meant relations. Yeah. As in literally related. I'd like also, so you were talking about George just making up random free folk for these chapters and like just quickly growing seeds.

I want to point out this person just because it's within the same paragraph. All right. So we only hear about this steward here in the Night's Watch, like this book, after Donald Noy has died. I want to introduce everyone to Danil. He's less popular than Donald. Prada, knockoff. Yeah. Now that Donald's out of the picture, it is Danil's time to shine.

Oh my god, it's a secret twin secret twist daniel i i don't know anything about him other than that his name is daniel and now he's in this story we just don't even know where he came from was he named after donald noy i mean i would name him after donald does he go here he doesn't even go here we only learned about him now okay so Clydus enters John's office and he brings the dark wings and dark words of this chapter it's news from Cotter Pike at hard home with six ships wild seas blackbird lost with all hands two Two Lycene ships driven aground on Skane, Talon taking water. Very bad here. Wildlings eating their own dead. Dead things in the woods. Bravosi captains will only take women, children on their ships. Witch women call us slavers. Attempt to take Stormcrow defeated.

Six crew dead. Many wildlings. Eight ravens left left dead things in the water sent help by land seas racked by storms from talon by hand of meester harmune cotter pike had made his angry mark below clitus asks john if it's bad news and And John is like, indeed, it is. Night falls, he thought, and now my war begins. What a fucking end. This is why Hardhome

and the show will not be as good as the glacial menace of what we get in the books. The silent horror, the dread, the suspense uh reading that letter alone and reading like him just be like storm rack see like send by land help help send by land like john just went through this long day and this is the kind of day where like you would probably come home from work exhausted like can't even get yourself into a bath or a shower like just put yourself on the

couch and stare off at the wall after this long ass day of work that you just had and yet here john is going oh fuck yeah this is john at the end of the episode of keaton and kelly going oh here it goes yeah cotter pike straight up was just like john i'm gonna need you to bring some maple syrup and a wig and three cotton balls all right bye hang up like that's what he just got killed he did and like for me what sinks it in in this read like when i was rereading this just that was the eight ravens left i'm like oh, oh. Yeah, it's over. Yeah. It's over for these people at Hardhome, dude. It is done. I really like Connor Pike, okay?

Oh, yeah, me too. He's got that, like, gruff, like, uncle kind of thing about him. Like, Roderick the Reader, but, like, not as bookish, obviously. Definitely not bookish, but I respect the hell out of Connor Pike. I like him a lot this makes me sad i also like the other dude dennis i like i like dennis you just like the malisters you have a crush on uh the malisters but i just like him and cotter pike and their relationship and also i don't know that's fair that's fair no i i just like the gruff like

gruffle dude but you're totally right like it and part of what makes this so horrific is in my opinion that we're not going to get to see a lot of it on screen it's just another one of those things that it's like yeah and by on screen i mean like in the books through like the povs it's like you just hear the rumors and that builds sort of the anticipation and as you said the horror of it it sounds like something from fucking dead space which oh yeah yeah absolutely and i mean when you're like running out of fucking ammo and you're like eight bullets left just knowing about it from here like to me yes it's great we got a cool episode seeing what we didn't actually get to read or haven't gotten to read or won't get to read

whatever you want to spin it whether we get to read it or not however it goes down in the winds of winter or doesn't go down it's better to me this way to me is just better with this plot I think that you lose the emotion it's better than a pile of CGI right like we just

spent this whole entire fucking chapter just like getting these people across the wall finally like finally we're getting some movement john's gonna get some people to safety you know like his stuff is really doing something here but it feels even though he got 3 119 wildlings across the wall it does not feel like he's succeeding like he gets that letter from cotter pike and he realizes it's all foobar it's all dog fucked and he's the one who sent them there to go get like more wildlings and i think part of it is yeah like you said we got a fun action episode and you saw some of those stakes through, like, the combat, but here the stakes feel different.

Mm-hmm. Right? They feel different than real in that it's a lot of things going on of, are they going to make it in time? Jon led them here. Here's where we are at now. We've already lost these things. What is the best, most strategic course? And you know what?

Jon's gonna die. So... Then what what then it's all really fucked yeah then like how is it all gonna run like everything's gonna fall awry it's like all very interlinked who's gonna step it up and who's gonna save the free folk now even like are they going to be like well because we're not trying to get the free folk are they going to abandon then their brothers who are on a mission to get them? So what's tying them? You know, I mean, when all hell has broken loose, your Lord Commander's been murdered, bleeding out on the ground. There's ice zombies on the move and you just let through 3,119 free folk through the wall.

Like what happens then? It just feels more suspenseful. Yeah. And like things are not as in John's hands. Like sure, you don't get to see the aftermath of that battle and that is a creative choice you can make but i think that feeling of hopelessness and helplessness from a distance is part of what makes this work and it's from the proximity of being close right uh we just watched like yes uh a lot of this is filler as we discussed a lot

of this is filler stuff made up for these chapters so that he could get to john dying he already knew that was going to happen he just needed to figure out what the fuck happened in between i get that but a lot of that filler did serve right like me and you had a full-ass conversation about these daughters that were brought to be given up to you know marry off or whatever um i mean we just talked about like these bloodlines that were introduced in one chapter so george has given us something to care about so when these free folk who are now like at the mercy of the night's watch and this is your last chance for salvation pretty much penal colony stop number one you You know, like, this is

it. This is all they have and it's over. John's dead. The stakes are very high. We just spent the whole two last chapters giving a fuck about these people. Yeah. And Cotter Pike. Yeah. Which I guess we did not spend two

chapters giving a fuck about, but I give a fuck. I know you do, honey. Him and Dennis Malister. Yeah, and I mean all those other people as well. Mother Mole. I care about Mother Mole. She's interesting. I really worry about that lady.

I do. I want to know what her deal is. Well, I don't think you're gonna. I think she's gonna die. But that's at least knowing a bit about her deal, you know. That's true. That's true when your favorite character isn't dead. But maybe all of you want to know what our deal is, right?

Maybe you want to follow us on social media. This is my transition into our post-episode discussion, everyone, of follow us on social media, girlsgoncanon, C-A-N-O-N, on Twitter. But, or maybe you want to let us know what your deal is instead you can shoot us an email at girlsgonecanon at gmail.com you can and if you guys

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Yes. And of course, we are on Patreon. We have, as you all know, special episodes for patrons, $5 and up. Last episode was about the lantern slides from His Dark Materials and the month before that was on House Valerian. We're going to come back to Song of Ice and Fire this month

in January and discuss the Maiden Vault. Yes, the Maiden Vault. Last episode we talked about some ideas for next month. We'll see what happens. We'll see what happens. We've got a lot to accomplish next month with both His Dark Materials, The Subtle Knife starting up this month and next,

a shorter month, and the Patreon episode for next month. But definitely check out patreon.com slash girlsgonecanon. And, of course, check out next week when we have The Lady Shelley on for John 13, the last chapter where john dies at the end until then i have been one of your hosts chloe and i have been another one of

your hosts eliana he does die at the end he does die at the end i mean if you guys aren't ready for the emotional chronicle of a john foreto What is this, like, no, my son! It doesn't work as well as dad, no It doesn't Goodbye, you guys Goodbye