Girls Gone Canon Cast - ASOIAF Episode 83 - ASOS Jaime IV

Episode Date: March 13, 2020

Jaime is met by his own craven tendencies in the face of the Brave Companions - and Brienne. --- Eliana's twitter: https://twitter.com/arhythmetric Eliana's reddit account: https://www.reddit.com/user/glass_table_girl Eliana's blog: https://themanyfacedblog.wordpress.com/ Chloe's twitter: https://twitter.com/liesandarbor Chloe's blog: www.liesandarborgold.com 

Hello and welcome to Girls Gone Canon, episode 83, fuck, A Song of Ice and Fire, episode 83, Jamie in a Storm of Swords, chapter 4. I am one of your hosts, Chloe. You know me from the internet as Liza and Arbor or lizanarborgold.com. And I am another one of your hosts, Eliana. You might know me as GlassTableGirl on Reddit, on the Maester Monthly Podcast. Maybe you know me as Arithmetric on Twitter. Who? Hoomst. I don't know.

Who are you? Who is that? You've abandoned us. We don't know who you are. But, you know, in our time of need, I am here on the other side of the world. It's a global emergency, yet i am here uh on the other side of the world it's a global emergency yet i am here showing up the global emergency has changed my travel plans and therefore we are doing it live we are recording we're doing it live national edition girls gone canon girls gone global national global girls gone global

yeah that's a good i do like that a good ring and so good ring about yeah so everyone i want to apologize for my audio this week um you know we're not recording in the most ideal conditions right now i'm basically in a sauna of my own making uh in order to make the audio as best as it can be with the conditions I'm working in and the resources I have right now so I think it's classic I feel like it's uh kicking it old school you know like 2017 it feels like rough it feels raw I feel like this is a new week like a new host you know like you it feels like rough it feels raw i feel like this is a new week like a new host you know like you left for a couple weeks and i feel like it was good time to spend apart absence makes the heart grow fonder i'm glad you're back spice up our relationship a

little well last time uh we spiced up our relationship with a threesome if you guys remember with gene wow wait a second whoa whoa we did not do that we had Gina and she was wonderful she was great she delivered a lot of really great insights and we'll be heralding to some of them in this upcoming episode and

I hope you all enjoyed that that was a really awesome episode to record and of course Chloe had a few other guests on as part of you know spicing up our relationship i actually had god fuck off i had three guests come on okay eliana this is not fair it's not fair what you did to me i had three other hosts uh wow i feel really shamed right now i had three other hosts come Wow, I feel really shamed right now. I had three other hosts come on the podcast and we did a discussion.

A discussion, if you do not follow our His Dark Materials podcast, is where we talk about the outer books and all of the books in whole. We spoil the fuck out of the His Dark Materials series is what I'm saying. And Eliana just got to join some, but she did not come to this dusty discussion where I had her Dark Materials podcasts, Faye, and I had Ian and Amy from the Dark Material podcast on with me. We talked about The Secret Commonwealth, the second book in Philip Pullman's Books of Dust. It's out right now for public by now. If you're listening listening to this episode hopefully you will have downloaded it

check it out if you were a fan of that series but Eliana was not invited anyways not only was she abandoning me she was not invited because it was not her style she said three at once not my style she prefers a more intimate setting yeah you know that's why I'm here like a sauna

like a sauna of just me and this like giant blue pig. I feel like you're a little early for this. If you had waited just like another week or so, you know, you could have been in the sauna at the same time as Jamie. That's true. Oh man.

We can just tack that on. We're not prepared to do that chapter. We can just tack on with maybe one of the most important chapters in the entire series to this one. No, no, we are definitely waiting for that. But first, we have a lot to get through in this episode, you guys. Ice and Fire Con coming up. If you guys remember, we had been talking about our Ice and Fire Con giveaway, where the winner of this randomly selected giveaway would win some Girls Gone Canon merchandise, a free weekend pass to Ice and Fire Con,

beverages of their choosing from both girls. And you guys, we chose a winner. I'm really excited about it. I was pretty pumped. I feel bad because I wanted everyone to win. If I could, I'd buy every single person that listens to our podcast tickets to Ice and Fire Con, but it wouldn't hold that many people so um that would be problematic but i would i would if i could all right so our ice and fire con giveaway winner thanks to a special

special uh mystery patron who has uh you know been, patroning other people throughout putting cans in many different baskets, putting eggs in many different baskets, Illyria Mopatis. Eating cheese! I actually don't know. Actually, legitimately, this is a mysterious benefactor. I just want to clarify it is not

me and Chloe. It is indeed Illyria Mopatis. But it really actually isn't me and Chloe. It is indeed Illyria Mopatis. But it really actually isn't me and Chloe. It is actually Mysterious Fun Factor. Thank you, Nick Fox. Our winner. Oh, we missed it. Whatever. We made it backwards.

Whatever. We gotta keep people on their toes. Especially when they're part of our sweet foot tier as Nick Fox, our randomly chosen winner has, uh, is. Nick Fox's entry, uh, was very weird, which is

interesting. Very bold. Um, again, the entries were, the winner was selected by a randomization um chloe put all the names in to like a randomizer thing and then it just picked nick fox selected um it's so magic like i didn't know how they all did it you know like i'm like how do the people do it and i didn't really have a code i didn't really feel like running java for it so i was just like oh you could just put them into the e-bucket. Yeah.

Chloe threw a bunch of leeches in. Oh, my God. And Nick Fox, I guess, survived. She forgot to throw that leech in. They're coming, though, and we're going to hang out with them and meet them. And I think that's really exciting. So I'm really excited for ice and fire con it's it's soon it is like sooner every day well thank you so much to everyone who participated

uh hopefully we'll get to read a few of those emails over the next weeks of jamie i know we got a lot of jamie pov emails actually and only a couple of uh some of the next week. So Jamie, I know we got a lot of Jamie POV emails actually. And only a couple of some of my favorites. So I was like, wow. I don't think we even got a brand now that I say it. But big thank you to everyone who participated. It still is surprising to me.

And you know one day we'll discuss this more when we get to the brand chapters. Maybe people's perceptions of brand will change because we'll have wins out by then. Who knows? We're're gonna have wins out next week but i mean like brand was that giving away when brand is coming too much yeah but like i was just so surprised to find out that people didn't like brand povs i know that Anne, aka SweetYFT of the Hypeswatch though, sees Bran as actually

one of her favorite POVs. Well, that's cause, you know, she has good taste. She's French. We definitely foresee some Ice and Fire kind of giveaways in the future happening, though. Maybe not only by Illyrio Mopatis, maybe

Multiple You Never Know and other nifty giveaways for a song of ice and fire things and speaking of patrons a big thank you to some of the new patrons we've had in the last few weeks like lady raj mistress of horse may eric and our friends over at the dark material podcast who were just on that episode we talked about the dust discussion uh thanks again you guys we are going to be so much more active on patreon soon as soon as mom comes home yeah so we'll see i'm excited that we have a mistress of horse now i know i i kind of feel like they have other other people they're mistressing of horse so i feel dirty about it in a way but at the same time i'm like yeah whatever they're the, so best in the game.

I can't stop thinking about, like, I just watched this Rick and Morty episode about dragons and soul bonding, and that's all I can think about as we have our discussions today of other horsing, of horsing around in general. But let's kick off our lightning round with a someone also associated with horses aria too after hearing the ghost of high hearts visions aria travels with part of the brotherhood to acorn hall denarius too frustrated with what astapor offers her denarius turns to eerie for sexual comfort and to jorah for his advice Bran too, after meeting Littles in the woods Bran hears a sad old story

one new to only him hmm it's my favorite chapter in all of the books did you know that? it is, it's my favorite chapter that's my favorite chapter, Bran too Bran too, Asos and sansa seven asos yeah yeah davos three davos is visited by shitty guests while he's stuck in prison

john three john this part from ghost at the wall and joins his soul to a new one. Daenerys III. It's not her, spoiler. Dracarys. Sansa III. Sansa gets catfished. Oh my god. Arya V. Arya learns about the Battle of the Bells and sees a familiar face at the Peach.

Jon IV. There are so many Jon chapters, but you all know that. We just went through him for like I don't know more than half a year they make you read and read the climbers on the wall do not find Jormund's

horn gasp now you guys we are going to put a warning up top this episode does have some pretty pretty harsh violence in it. Some sexual violence, some regular physical violence, and just some good ol' emotional trauma. So if you're gonna hop on board, please be wary of that going in. We will be talking a little bit about that.

We'll bumper it while we do. But this is Jamie 4. Jamie's wound is infected and the mummer's aggression comes too close for comfort. They are delivered into the hands of Roose Bolton, who's displeased at the prisoner's condition. And so we start with the opening line of Jamie four. His hand burned. What a chapter opening. It launches into what Ares was doing at court without even saying it. It launches into what Ares was doing at court without even saying it. It frames how you view Jaime, his actions, and his thoughts in this chapter.

His hand burned. You immediately think, oh my god, it's his hand that he just lost, but it's just by the end of the chapter, it's so much more than that. Yeah, absolutely. George never really starts the before and after of the the act and just goes through the consequences of it um because it's been days since they've cauterized the wound and even without the hand still it's the worst pain he's ever felt he called on like whatever he could to forget the pain and he even like said prayers he didn't believe in he was crying from the pain right the mummers are laughing at him and he's

prayed for the fever to burn away his tears. You begin to see a little bit of empathy from Jaime, that beginning of trying to understand how other people feel because now he thinks, now I know how Tyrion has felt all those

times they laughed at him. Yeah, you see that softening towards Brienne he's stuck together with her sharing a horse and there's just a lot of cruel stuff that happens while they're on the road we'll detail some of it the mummers are usually just like really graphically horrible one of the days of the riding which they're on this journey forever the mummers force them to ride face to face instead of back to back and we're mocking them as lovers and there's this passage i want to highlight and what a lovely sight they are to be cruel to separate the good knight and his lady

then he laughed that high shrill laugh of his and said but which one is the knight and which one is the lady yeah that feels like a perverse like a twisted all men are ladies and all men are knights from dunkin egg like this is like a very much a fairy tale gone wrong a fairy tale gone dark yeah definitely i mean like there's a lot of of course those beauty and the beast overtones throughout this book specifically and this is one of the ways it manifests and I think the way that they're bound together right facing one another it in a very literal way shows how Brienne and Jamie's identities begin to blend into one another as they start to learn from each other and like the imagery of them actually very much reminds me of this idea from plato's symposiums regarding love uh the idea that is that once upon a time like humanity was

powerful enough to rival the gods and humanity looked different i'm just going to read aloud this quote for the original human nature was not like the present but different the sexes were not two as they are now but originally three in number there was man woman and the union of the two having a name corresponding to this double nature which had once a real existence but

is now lost and the word androgynous is only preserved as a term of reproach in the second place the primeval man was round, his back and sides forming a circle, and he had four hands and four feet, one head with two faces looking opposite ways, set on a round neck and precisely alike,

also four ears, two privy members, and the remainder to correspond. He could walk upright, as men do now, backwards or forwards as he pleased, and he could also roll over and over at a great pace, turning on his four hands and four feet, eight in all,

like tumblers going over and over with their legs in the air. This was when he wanted to run fast. This doesn't sound like it, but apparently this is an image of power, everyone, from Plato's Symposium. Each of the different- Plato, wow, you dog. This is power.

So powerful. You animal. Literally. Each of the sexes corresponded with a different celestial body, and the gods were like, I hate this. This sucks. this corresponded like with a different celestial body and like the gods were like I hate this this sucks they're too powerful and super annoying but they also just couldn't get rid of humanity because they're like we still need them to like worship and sacrifice

to us but we need to humble them so Zeus comes up with this idea he's like but what if we put them in two and cuts the humans in half there's a line and that's how we got capitalism that's literally capitalism I have no idea what you just said

yeah that's what he did this is literally I mean let's all give them jobs yeah there's this great line that I want to call out as part of the imagery so that we can understand exactly what it is like.

It is in its description, as you might divide an egg with a hair. Which, would a historian please advise me, is this something ancient people just used to do often? Cut eggs using hairs?

That makes sense. Does it? Yeah, that makes sense. it yeah that makes sense does it like think about like braided hair like and now think about slicing with just like a piece of hair a slice of hair like tooth floss right but why would i use that when i could use a knife or literally anything else that is not a hair they might not have hair or a knife they might have hair and no knife they could just bite into some might have knife and no hair but anyway yeah but this is the fancy people i don't know this is the debate no but anyway um so this this having is part of why people are always searching for essentially their other half ignoring all the other real weird things that plato ends up saying about adultery

and sexuality and pederasty and the justification of it very weird the point is there's something very platonic capital p philosophical like about this arrangement of jamie and brienne right not that they're just friends platonic but platonic and like that ideal right um and and it is interesting because especially with that context coming back to gender like jb's in this moment reassessing his manhood rianne's struggling to perform westerosi womanhood and that blurring of those roles comes through in in the way that the brave companions are mocking them and how the two have to learn to define themselves kind of just sick though to think about how they like force it together like this whole entire chapter almost can read kind of horror when you put heron hall back into it which i think we'll talk about a lot as we get to heron hall but just really like a horror movie like now you guys are

going to do this welcome to saw he thinks he would teach them if he was a knight or if she was a lady uh if he had his hand but he doesn't like he is knocked down he is in pain he's numb none of it matters all that matters is the pain of his hand and brienne is super warm against him and starts to feel comfortable when they're pressed face to face interesting Interesting. Although they both have horrendous breath, he comments. And I'm like, oh yeah, that's true. That's gross. That's all I'm thinking about this whole time. Them pressed together. They're like sexuality on each other.

Whether they like it or not. Her titties on his arm, apparently. And it's just like, all he can think about is, man, you're born, but your breath sucks and so does mine. I mean, it's a real sensation you know probably super gross honestly everyone's breath is probably terrible in this oh except for little finger remember little finger eats like mints or something i forgot that like fucking

tobacco mint maybe they wouldn't have tobacco little finger fucking chews he would be the kind of guy who chews though it's real where jamie's hand has grown infected his hand as you said keeps smacking brand's boobs as they ride uh and by that he means the hand that's hanging around his neck that is no longer attached to him he can't't eat, for his throat is too raw, so he drinks some wine and water when offered at one point. They give him horse piss, and they laugh about it, and he pukes it up after. They give him horse piss, and...

Is it sterile? I don't know. Medievalists weigh in? Or actual horses? Horses? Biologists? Someone Someone please tell us about horse piss. Animalists. Yes. I don't know.

Yeah. They, like, feed him horse piss, and then they laugh about it, and he pukes it up after, but he was so thirsty that he just drank it. I'm like, oh, Jamie, that's so sad. Yeah. There's a lot of interesting, like, imagery attached to Jamie regarding horses, right, throughout this chapter. Like, as though he was just

throughout his whole arc that's true yeah I mean like the horses of course have a lot of associated imagery throughout especially in Dunkin Egg right with like being part of chivalry fighting war and like so for it to be likened to Jamie

and even like in those first in his first chapters now that I think about it there's that whole like this person gets this kind of horse, this person gets this kind of horse. And this isn't just us talking about like our horse years. This is, I think this is actually in the text. Well, and I mean, George has obviously put a lot of focus on that when Daenerys gets her horse in a Game of Thrones. It's so special, right? Like it's a very magical moment. It is a, it's so special right like it's a very magical moment it is a it's an

awakening and for jamie he ends up getting honor and you know people the what's honors a horse like for jamie that's what he says but it's the true sign of being a knight being uh you know a knight on horse uh chivalrous and arthurian you know that's the very image of a true knight is the knight on horse and gleaming glittering armor and that's who jamie wanted to be his whole life and now he sees his horses as nothing you know yeah and that's even how tyrian tyrian perceived him right that's something that was meaningful to tyrian when he was taken by catelyn he felt grief when his horse was killed because he was like that's the horse that

my brother jamie who he sees as very much his hero who's been defending him for a lot of his life which is a farce right like he and then that horse dies and like that's sad for him but like jamie's finding he thought he was a horse but maybe you know it's all piss yeah and i mean in war horses die dude that's true that's war so they give and this is like a very on the nose thing that they give her the role of cleaning up jamie's vomit they put her in this maternal this female like and everyone that sees her is like why are you in armor what are you doing you can't be that profession but they immediately are like well you can clean Jamie up that's your job you are the the mom of Jamie Lannister since he has no mother now ever actually except for that one time and

he soils himself too so he is like unable to take care of himself he is not feeling well and his fever is just like progressing this whole time and they just like put her in this maternal role kind of like what we talked about with that fever dream a while back we chatted about how you know she's kind of like joanna in that fever dream way that he sees her just like this recreation of the mother he didn't have and how the only time Brienne even talks about her mother I've noticed in these books is in Catelyn in the Clash of Kings once and that's it like yes she was too young to remember her is what we learn and she remembers her father having a different woman every year Selwyn the stud but like she never thinks about her mother or her mom

not once not even one time and i found that astonishing especially with how maternal she is in general towards jamie uh she's just and i guess it's being a true knight right i guess is the whole thing but she's very like careful and takes care of him even as they get into harrenhal and he kind of gets worse yeah and it kind of makes you think the idea of what is the role of the mother right it's not just the mother can embody those i think masculine attributes right um the way that yeah and kind of sits in the middle um in terms of the stereotypes like or those gender roles and mage mormon protection like your bear cubs yeah a protector role and and the mother

encompassing that i mean like there's caitlin as you said but i've also you know when people do breakdowns of how stark as faces of the seven i actually interpret ned as the mother as opposed to the father because of that protective role um protecting the children whereas catelyn especially as lady stoneheart like does more of that father and judgment interesting that's a very that is a spicy take i've been digging for thank you i don't know i just think it's a maybe not spicy i just think it's a hot take i like it i like it i like it i like it i like it i did i think i did write about it somewhere and didn't get much traction. Well, I'm going to bring it back.

We flash to another morning on the journey. Jamie's feeling a little bit stronger. So he's like, you know what? Fuck it. He reaches for Simmons, a rock from their door to Schman's belt with his good hand. He makes play for it, tries to kill Shagwell. But, you know, it doesn't go so well. He can't land it, he trips, he falls to his knees. We get this quote.

Rorge finally flung him aside and kicked the sword from Jamie's feeble fingers as he tried to bring it up. That was amusing, King Flayer, said Vargo Holt, but if you fly again i shall take over him or perhaps the fort jamie lay on his back afterward staring at the night sky trying not to feel the pain that snaked up his right arm every time he moved it the night was strangely beautiful the moon was a graceful crescent and it seemed as though he had never seen so many stars. The king's crown was at the zenith, and he could see the stallion rearing and there the swan. The moon, made shy as ever, was half hidden behind a pine tree. How can such a night be beautiful?

He asked himself, why would the stars want to look down on such as me? There's something that is just so Shakespeare about this passage right right here and i can't put my tongue completely on it but it's written in like such romantic meter and language it reminds me even a bit of romeo and juliet uh like the part that i am too bold tis not to me she speaks two of the fairest stars in all the heaven having some business to entreat her eyes to twinkle in their spheres till they return what if her eyes were there they in her head the brightness of her cheek would shame those stars um i don't know what it is but it's something about the language of just the stars in the night and especially for jamie when he's on his way to harrenhal where he remembers those big vast starry nights, and he's returning in such a different way.

I could definitely see it, and I think it's something that I would have to think more on, especially with how desire plays out in Jaime's storyline for the Other, as projected into Cersei, and then later on maybe into Brienne, but maybe more Brienne as her own person, and then later on Jaime into Brienne, but maybe more Brienne as her own person and then later on Jaime's desire for self and how that manifests in both those stories.

Yeah. There's something in there. There's just something. And I mean, their story is doomed to be tragic. There's no way that they're going to be together forever, unfortunately. That's just war, baby. That's war, baby.

That's what's about to happen. There's ice zombies who knows it's wild card baby wild card and you know right now things things are looking pretty pretty testy in their relationship you know with uh being sent by the other fire zombie it also seems like there's something here with jamie and vargo vargo was saying that he was amusing, or amusing, as you might have heard me say. We don't deserve that. We don't. The memory of Tyrion tumbling around for jest in the tables for Uncle Jairion that George kind of half retconned, right?

It just wasn't physically like a thing that he should have put in. It just didn't make sense. uh, it just wasn't physically like a thing that he should have put in. It just didn't make sense. So Tyrion reminds Tywin that he would be a man grown free to travel where he wished because Tywin was like, no, you can't take my money and go to the free cities, Tyrion. You're irresponsible and you are bad at making good choices and you can't. And then he gives a speech and he's like, no man is free. Only children and fools think elsewise. Go by all means. Wear motley and stand on your head to amuse the spice lords and the cheese kings.

Just see that you pay your own way and put aside any thoughts of returning. At that, the boy's defiance had crumbled. If it is useful occupation require useful occupation, you will have his father then said. And then he later thinks i need a cup of wine to wash the taste of tywin from my mouth a skin of wine would serve me better so that's tyrian three a dance with dragons uh for jamie on his journey to harrenhal he's likely having his own memory of tywin that he's mustering right like the journey to harrenhal he's revisiting this state of perpetual 15 years old that he's been stuck in and tywin like he's mustering, right? Like the journey to Harrenhal, he's revisiting this state of perpetual 15 years old

that he's been stuck in. And Tywin, like he's probably thinking of him telling him of his responsibilities and his duties to House Lannister and what he's good at. Like what Tyrion was good at was managing the sewage. What Jaime was good at was he was being set up to be a knight and a lord of House Lannister.

And then it was all taken away from him by Aerys and now here Jaime is going back to that place that ruined it all that turned Tywin into this awful like gold villain where all the stars died for Jaime Lannister wow it is where all the stars died for him all those legends written up there and here they are looking down at him once more comes back and i mean like karen hall as we're going to discuss probably next episode is very much a big turning point once more right for jamie like there are a couple of places that serve as very as gates right in the story the in that the crossroads is one of them of course winterfell is another and heron hall is that for jamie um and then we get there's a lot of like good quotes a lot of good lines i know i couldn't not put this in it was too good it's good in

different ways i think for both of us. For me, I think it's hilarious. For you, I think it's poetic. You can be Brienne then. Because I really relate to Jaime in this moment. Oh, you're so kind. I relate to Jaime in this. Oh my god.

Jaime, Brienne whispered so faintly he thought he was dreaming it. Jamie, what are you doing? Dying. He whispered back. And like, in the side notes, yeah. In the side notes, you can't all see. I was just like, same. Like, I related so hard when I saw that. I was like, in the side notes, yeah. In the side notes, you can't all see. I was just like, same. Like, I related so hard when I saw that.

I was like, wow, yes. Yup, yup, same. I feel this daily. No, she said. No, you must live. He wanted to laugh. Stop telling me what to do, wench. I'll die if it pleases me.

Are you so craven? The word shocked him. He was Jaime Lannister, a knight of the Kingsguard. He was the Kingslayer. No man had ever called him craven. Other things, they called him yes, oathbreaker, liar, murderer. They said he was cruel, treacherous, reckless, but never craven. He was who he was. Jon Snow. Bastard. Oathbreaker. Motherless. Friendless. And damned. Just thought I'd put that out there.

Same thing. It is the same energy. Cruel. Treacherous. Reckless. It absolutely is i mean oathbreaker liar murderer yeah like that the same way that it's like it reminds me of sam a lot of this discussion and you know the roles for these kind of high lords gets reminds me of him with the whole being craven so sam is kind of another guy who had a horrid father overbearing father right and i think you might not call it i guess a disability

so much in some certain ways in the physical form but he does have a medical condition that has set him aside ostracized him from the society where these dudes have like ham bones on their chests and put him in a place where society like just allows him the son of a super high lord to be treated like this and cast to this land of misfit toys in the north right like nobody even raises a finger because randall tarley is a scary motherfucker and sam is just some like boy who's overweight and weak and they're like yeah whatever he'll just die there yeah and i think that that makes sense especially because what we get both sam and jamie's povs introduced

in this book and obviously part of it is what they show us into the world but so much of i think jamie getting his own pov is thematic, is about the character-driven story. And for Sam to be a part of that, I think, I don't think that's, like, that's definitely a planned move on the literary sense. For him to play foil to Jamie like that. It is kind of Jamie's foil, right? In a way. Absolutely. Like, that is the other Jamie in this story. That's the yin to Jamie'sie in this story he goes that's the the yin to jamie's yang story yeah like he could never live up to any of those societal expectations and he

still can't yet he still exhibits heroism regardless he knows that the stories aren't for him he and that way you know maybe sam is also kind of like brianne right well and that's why brianne and jamie come together so hard i also really relate to jamie's line of stop telling me what to do that's what people do dying don't tell me what to do um but i mean yeah especially with like brianne right there jamie's story along with sam's right all of these are interrogations on what constitutes as masculinity and with masculinity of course being you know positioned as good in westerosi society uh and they're what they interpret masculinity as right because gender is different in different cultures um and like jamie could get

away with all the things that he did like right being an oathbreaker a murderer treacherous and reckless as long as he wasn't damned and he was fine with all that as long as he wasn't interpreted as craven because he could perform being not craven solely by being able to fight and willing to do so and I think that along with Sam's story starting now like you see of course a lot of connection between Jamie and Bjergsen's stories not just like that they're both part of the Kingsguard but like they started interesting times for these characters like Jamie's physically weakened due to his imprisonment he's stripped of his ability to perform again that masculinity through fighting. A Song of Ice and Fire is

just very meta and it's concerned with stories and legends and for a lot of it, Barristan and Jamie are portrayed as living legends. Coming back to Bran, Bran's like, oh my god, it's Barristan Selmy, wow, amazed and like we start both of their povs like towards the time that they stop being those living legends and just become humans again there's this line later in this chapter of it was his right hand that made him a knight his right arm that made him a man and like without the thing that made him a knight which wasn't his honor for sure and it like wasn't him adhering to his oaths it was just his masculinity being able to fight and his willingness slash ability

to use that his body jamie's story is like i think about the deconstructing not just the myth of jamie the white knight jamie the king slayer it's not just about deconstructing the myth of knighthood but just deconstructing the myth of manhood in westrow it's not about the look of the person we learned that when robert was this warrior type and then he goes to shit because he's complacent and he's depressed and he just lets that eat away at him and lets the acedia take hold right like john thinks uh that this is what a king should look like about jamie damned but that's not what makes a man what makes a man are the actions that that person does and it's what makes a human right like it's humanity it's finding that common humanity

uh Jamie's actions in killing Ares were uh to protect his loved ones and to protect the city that Ares was about to turn to dust I mean that's likened to what Dunk did, right? Dunk had to go in and stop the boy that he loved, that he had been with since the boy was a child, and that he had watched grow up and been proud of as king and watched do amazing things. But Jamie was forced in this situation where he didn't even love the person. He just had to put them down. I think it's just a really interesting look that it doesn't matter what shape

your chest is or your body is it's the actions that make you right like just as Barristan took Aerys out of Duskendale Jaime had to end him that exact madness quote-unquote that took hold in him it's just it's a really interesting look at different men and what their actions did and why they did them the motivations that they did them for and it comes through so much when because the kingsguard are all named right like so many of them mythologizes like pinnacle manhood and it stands very much in contrast to john's story right like as you said damned so much of the night's watch is about that anonymity like some of them might be remembered every now and then but it seems like a lot of the night's watch is about that anonymity like some of them might be

remembered every now and then but it seems like a lot of the night's watch members that are like very much remembered are those who did like bad shit and broke their oaths like the night's king not like the night's king well and it comes down to that idea of idolizing so like it's a systemic thing right they all grew up wanting to be knights but it turns out that once you become a knight you learn that the world is false it's bad capitalism is bad no i'm just kidding the industrial war machine that is westeros is bad and it turns out that idolizing your war heroes barriston or arthur dane uh once you get up close and you get under that grimy surface from idolizing your war heroes, Barristan or Arthur Dane. Once you get up close and you get under that grimy surface from idolizing your war hero,

you learn that those war heroes are just like coated in thick trauma from the bullshit they had to do in this system that has just ground them to a fucking pulp. You know, like you don't get anywhere from idolizing these war heroes. And then you look at the North and you look at these famous people like the Night's King. And you realize, like, ah, those are the people that were trying to break out of that system.

But then it turns out, like, they also wanted to, like, bring an apocalypse. But you know what I mean. Yeah. It's a problem. They really have a problem in Westeros, don't they? They really, really do. And that's why Jaime... Vote blue no matter what.

Oh my god. That's why Jaime asks, what no matter what! Oh my god. That's why Jamie asks, what are his other options? Die? Yes. And Brienne's like, no. No, you can live and take revenge, you dumbass. But she says it a little too loudly and Rorge then kicks her and tells her, shut the fuck up.

You know, I love that theme. Right with the Storm of Swords, you start getting those little tickles of that vengeance right and that like you know we don't have to be beaten down but people keep beating them down i mean you look at the starks they get pretty beat down in this book haha and you know i was just talking with poor quentin from not a cast about one of the key differences with a feast for cr Crows and A Dance with Dragons is A Feast for Crows has like almost like an uprising revenge theme right you have Dorne you have Sansa you have uh Cersei you have all these moments that feel like oh I'll get my revenge like I'm gonna do it and A Dance with Dragons is kind of like look into the abyss everything's gonna be lost soon

doom sadness cold cannibalism like it's just really dreary and brienne serves as kind of this beacon in jamie's journey like and she's gone for a lot of it after this uh and she's like the beacon in the port in a storm of swords and she guides that puppy on home to deal with his fucking sins you know uh and then he deals the sins and then it doesn't go so well you know at the end there she comes back and she's not a good beacon anymore and she ends up being maybe in that same spot as he was i mean i don't know who knows where it's gonna go um but like yeah you're right she's she's not there for a lot of his story and feast yet he she serves as sort of that guiding light for him because it stops being

about all those heroes from legends jamie's like free on the beauty that could be a legend follow and like as you said a feast is so much about revenge and a lot of this chapter for jamie he's like trying to make that his motivating factor he's not that very good at feeling angry you know he's still like in the sad phase of another revenge phase but regardless i think that's a big part of why people read redemption in jamie or the potential for it because by feast which is so much about revenge that's not his motivating factor in feast i mean nothing for jamie his is a, right? Like his moment is put this in the fire. It's a quiet reckoning. It's not like, oh, sand snakes.

Oh, I am a lioness. I will not cringe for them. It's not that's, you know, what's going to happen, Sansa. You're going to be queen, which will happen. It's Jamie choosing something different, you know, making a choice. And that choice is such a quiet quiet thing but that's his moment something that uh i thought of in this chapter that idea of a quiet choice where jamie decides to live as you said it's like internally but it reminds me of i i think this

happened right i don't know i blocked out parts of season 8, where Beric tells Arya, live, and I thought of that during this chapter. I really actually, it's cheesy, but I did like that, and I really also liked that it wound up with Sandor's at the end when he said, no, you can't have this kill, it'll ruin you if you take this kill aria you'll die um yeah i i really actually liked that theme and that does kind of make me think of this and this is a quiet choice right here jamie chooses to live uh the next book he chooses to maybe take a different road and no they aren't huge huge changes he still ends up you know like working for his family name but he's figuring it out so that's better than what he was doing before he's trying he's out there and so he thinks during this he's like have i really become craven maybe maybe all i was was a machine a sword and he

thinks he can't die cersei's waiting for him and Tyrion who loved him for a lie and his enemies too like the young wolf and Edmure Tully and the brave companions. The next day he kind of wakes up with a purpose because of it. Like coming back to that uh horse imagery surrounding Jaime again and like he takes it down to give him strength. I mean like it works for horses why can't it work for people? Anyways every bite is coupled with him telling himself to live for his family when i reach king's landing i'll have a new hand forged a golden hand and one day i'll use it to rip out vargo hot's throat i don't know about that it's a good line though vargo hot's throat you know it's got a ring to it. Here, as we've been saying, Jamie's struggling with that idea of living for himself

versus living for the glory of House Lannister. And I think that becomes a large part of the shift in his story at the end of Storm. Like, actually, now that I think about it, all of Jamie's story, even since his childhood, has been that tension between living for himself and living for the glory of House Lannister. i mean he made that choice right to leave house lannister and be like yeah i'm gonna go to king's landing take an oath of celibacy to have sex with my sister totally makes sense brilliant brilliant point yeah and that's his legacy but like a large part of the shift in the story at the end of Storm is, like, he thinks about his own legacy and, like, why people deeply, like, see a change in his character.

And again, it comes back to what his motivation is, like, from that meta aspect. It's, like, not just about his wounded pride and seeking vengeance for him. or for Tyrion that we do get some hints about the reveal at the end of Tyrion's chapters regarding Tysha in here because Jaime's all like oh he loves me for a lie and I mean like we should be really reading the story of Tysha

and that as much in the context of Jaime's story as it is in Tyrion's because I think for all the lies about Jamie's heroism like these exist as a pair his acts with Ares and his acts with Tysha especially as both of these come

within the same book right like there is the larger societal lie in which Jamie is a villain for breaking his oaths yet we learn next chapter that he's actually a hero but then there's that smaller in terms of like the number of people affected but still very heinous personal lie to his brother in which he is positioned as a hero to tyrian but he's actually a villain because he's an accomplice in the rape of taisha and the assault of tyrian

yeah absolutely it's something that kind of gets swept under because you just don't think about it when you're in this pov and it really frames it well it's important in these chapters to remember too that like as he goes forward after that break he finally he tries to do as minimal damage in the lannister name right as he can even though he's still doing it in the lannister name and he even starts to think of kind of following those oaths that he swore about not taking arms up against the Tullys or Starks. And at the same time, we know where Tyrion is and where he's heading. He's going this opposite way of Jaime, right? Like, so that tension is still being built even after it's already broken

in King's Landing. And that buildup for Jaime, him going home to all that he lived for, his dad's scorn, his sister's bosom, his brother's dry wit, all of it gone, though, when he gets back to King's Landing. It was all a lie. This whole journey was built on gold and lies. And it's kind of heart-wrenching. That's why he has to make that change. It was interesting at Worldcon in Philadelphia in 2001, George said he intended for Feast to cover

what would have been the five year gap, right? And that some characters would be learning and they would only get one or two chapters. So you have your characters like Sansa, for example, we know now it technically only covers a little bit of time compared to what he really wanted it to but he's having feast pull a lot of the fucking legwork he states this is where Jaime decides the ball is no longer basically in Cersei's court and that he's sick of all the golden lies basically after Tywin's death it's like there's this trigger pulled in the Lannister family and they all just fucking like split their ways and go off and like Cersei's in her deep end Tyrion's going in his and Jaime is somehow the only normal motherfucker that's like even-headed like like Cersei will say something

about doing something he'll look at her like what the fuck what is wrong with you like it's like something ticked right for Jaime for everyone else no way but for jamie all of a sudden just something suddenly turned right a first of all circe is intrinsically a little bit crazy right like as we all know um but you know jamie the systems worked for him right like circe and tyrian go off and do, like, their own wild things, because now they're like, shh, I'm free! I'm free of Tywin! But, like, not internally,

because I'm still dealing with the emotional damage that he's caused me, but they're also like, oh, I can live my life and do whatever, whereas for Jaime, like, he didn't live with any of the same things that held back Circe systemically, right, as a woman, or Tyrion, right right as not being like or tyrian as a dwarf right jamie like in terms of body everything

in the system worked out right for him he wasn't changing anything he really wasn't he it was fine like yeah it sucked but he got used to his job where he just had to watch horror be committed yeah he's like this is what i'm supposed to do i guess this is how the system works and it's only now that he's like what if i didn't do that yet i will say well part of his motivations he doesn't get to come back right for rob stark because you know other things take care of that within this book but he does come back for edinure tully and he does not he doesn't take revenge fuck him up but he doesn't and he doesn't totally like fuck up edinure tully in the way that he thinks that he will but he does kind of fuck over edinure tully yeah oh absolutely he's still fucking him over but it's like gently oh my god at least he's like

threatening him first um little little foreplay you know what i mean like a little bit of threat first wow this could be a ship interesting so all this talk about these golden siblings it makes me want to do a golden sibling reread like the the tyrian then jamie then cersei in chronological order because i think the dance with dragons tyrian chapters are so interesting to read against storm and feast jamie like just pairing those together ah it's wild i want to read it all in tandem that sounds fun i think that's an interesting idea. A golden reread. In a few years. Someday. Someday. Let me know if you guys do it.

I find it interesting. I'd like to do it just for research because, again, you just get so much. I think it's an idea. How many ways are you fucked up by Tywin? Let's count them. So the nights go by in a blur. And he said Jamie is spending them in pain, asleep, chained to a tree. And he's a little happy they fear him enough to tie him to a tree.

He's like, good, I'm still a threat. Brienne is always bound beside him, wordless. He thinks of her as a sow. Not nice still, Jamie, come on. But he's working on it. Jamie thinks they'll rape her soon enough, but she's retreated within her walls. He has no walls. He thinks they've taken her soon enough, but she's retreated within her walls. He has no walls. He thinks they've taken all of them from him.

He hears Yerswick talk about Harrenhal and laughs because he's like, oh, that's where we've been fucking going this whole time. Right. I forgot. And Tymion slashes at him with a whip for laughing. And Brienne later at night is like, why did you laugh so hard about Harrenhal Jamie and he's like that's where I was given my white cloak at the

tourney at House Wentz place he's like I didn't even get to go to the tourney because Ares made me go away this is my big glorious return yeah it's pretty it's also cynical but also ironic I like I would laugh too if i were jamie

be like la mau i don't know if i'd laugh i'd definitely send a la mau out to whoever told me that he his he laughs and gets kicked and punched and then roared slams the boot into his hand and that makes him faint the next night shagwell roge and zolo are all preparing to rape brianne and jamie thinks they will leave her a cripple too but inside where it does not show our friend lo that we talk about had a great essay that came out that was talking about sexual violence and uh not just femininity but also masculinity and you know what makes a man or woman in the song of ice and fire series it's really great for jamie he's lost the only thing that's ever been certain to him he's always woken up and his right hand has been there the only thing that's made up for it every other

garbage thing in the world like low says in their essay it's perhaps not surprising he gets launched into an identity crisis after he loses his hand he can't comprehend the idea of something being worse than losing his hand his hair was his hand his hand was there when no one else was like cersei even wasn't there you know got him uh this might be why that while like domestically and sexually violent in a crime of violent passion the idea of jamie strangling cersei as they're ending with the golden hand is like a very vivid theory or prediction because it's all wrapped up in this phantom hand uh all of his issues get balled up melted up and

formed into the shape of a hand yeah absolutely there's a lot of discussion about the hand throughout Jamie's story later and together with Cersei. Handships. Who holds it. No pun intended when I said hold. Handjobs. You mean handjobs? Yeah, handjobs. Actually, literally.

Both? Okay, anyways. Literally. Both? Okay, anyways. Jamie tells Brienne to just let them take her and to go far away inside, like he had done with Ares, uh, burning Brandon and Rickard

to tosy little crisps. Uh, Chloe added that line in. Um, he advises her to think about Renly or Tarth, whatever makes her happy, and we discussed this, I think, quite a bit in the last episode with Jane, right, of these different coping mechanisms. Rorge begins to threaten Brienne's face first while Shagwell eggs him on. And now that I think about it, like, I don't know that this is necessarily foreshadowing, but it's quite ironic because,

what, isn't it Rorge who, like, bites Brienne's cheek and falls through on some of those threats later on in Feast? Yes. In Feast, yes. And Jaime pipes up and he's like, you should take care because of sapphires! And then they're like, shut the fuck up, and they kick his stump and he passes out again and when he comes to vargo hote is telling everyone they cannot touch brienne because she's worth a bag of sapphires and he decides to put guards on her to protect her from the other brave companions to protect them from his own very chivalrously very chivalrously met jamie by the way i'll give you one point. Good job. Suffered quite a bit.

It reminds me Vargo Hote here putting guards on Brienne to, in that quote, to protect them from his own, reminds me of Jon and the guards that he puts up in Castle Black for the Free Folk Women. But Jon did it for multiple

reasons in castle black right yes it was in the interest of actually protecting the women but also to an extent it was about like protecting the men and protecting the peace because john's like this is not gonna end well for any of the men who try to just forcibly take the free folk women they're gonna fight back uh as opposed to vargo hote doing it like he's viewing brienne and obviously he probably views most women like this as a commodity if they can't be used then they're just to be sold yeah earlier you brought up barrison and i totally forgot about barry till now in general right i just kind of forgot about him. It's just been a while. And, you know, John and Jamie aren't the kind of guys to do that. Right. Like to view woman as a commodity. John didn't look at Alice and think this is how I can make a very advantageous match for myself.

with all of the Stannis machinations. Jamie, you know, you look at how he treats Pia later. At least it's kind. You know, you don't have that often. You don't have these men being kind. And Jamie was indoctrinated beneath Barry's crew. Jamie didn't always have the power to make those kind of calls, right? To say like, hey, treat that girl nice.

Or hey, do this. No one listened to the new grunt on the squad. He entered brotherhood into this league where men were like, hey, this is how it is, buddy. Can't speak out. Can't ask questions in this society that like nurtured that behavior and said power is allowed to do these things. Jaime got to like live for these artificial things he projected on Tyrion and Cersei, Tyrion out of guilt, Cersei out of this long projected love that it turns out is a little fucked up and toxic. And now there's Brienne, who he's spent this whole trip breaking down, calling her a worthless sow. And now he realizes that that assault on her body

is worse than losing a hand. It's worth speaking up about, like she made it very abundantly clear that no, she would not let them take her like that. And that's something that Jamie couldn't and didn't do before. Right. It's a kind of a big turn in my opinion for his character. I know we were going to say that over the next few chapters, but I felt like this was just something really important for him. Yeah.

And I mean, he's for him to do it a second time. Like he knows what the risks are because he did it the first time. Right. He did it in the previous chapter and he lost a hand for it and now he's just like opened that door he's like fuck it doesn't matter what i lose before he was afraid of losing his job now he's just like lost all the qualifications for having a job like that anyway um and he's like whatever and brienne's a little confused about that.

She asks Jaime, why did you shout? You didn't need to do it. And he gives her a snappy answer. And she's like, okay, well, thanks. And then Jaime's like, don't thank me. Gives this typical Cinderi answer. And he's like, Baka, I didn't do it for you. And he actually just says,

only Mr. Pays his debts. That was for the river and those rocks he dropped on Robin Riger. Ko is shaking her head at me. Nice. Yeah, I don't understand you kids and your flashy shows. Flashy shows. Just kidding.

I can tell you my three favorite animes if you wanted, but we're not going to go there. As they enter Harrenhal, Vargo Hoth wants to parade his prisoners around, bound to the back of a Zorse any commentary peanut gallery so the zorse the zorse is in fact uh as we have learned thank you to our friend warren dudson for asking george the zorse is in in fact, the zebra-horse hybrid. And not a zebra, and not just a stripy horse. It is truly that, because this is a fantasy world. I like that he literally just was like,

here's all these weirdos of a rando, throw the dice, here's every single random ethnicity i could pack into like a nega brotherhood group and they're gonna be weird and into chopping people up and um also here's a zorse they have a zorse and dothraki uh valyrian steel there's honestly a lot to unpack about like you just said of the way that the Brave Companions are made up. Yeah, it's a little weird. It's very suspect.

George. I'm just saying, I know I said it last episode with you and Jean, and we didn't explore it, but I'm just putting it out there that it is kind of like, George, what did you do here? And do you want us to unpack it? Because I... He doesn't want us to unpack it but like maybe we really like at some point we're gonna probably we'll think about it maybe brave companions patreon episode

and how they might have all gotten to be where they are oh my god so with each step jamie stump gets more infected and screams with pain and harrenhal is flying banners that are sworn to house stark bolton and fray and the dire wolf so jamie is like very suspect he's like great i'm going into the enemy's cavern as they enter he remembers taking his vows the spot where he swore his vows is actually now a privy haha again coincidentally uh aries didn't even let him enjoy the evening he thinks yeah and then we have this moment where like there's this dog running around and then when the like sceney of the brave companions weird again spears a dog and then just like i don't know does he like behead the dog in the same moment because we only know about the spear

because now he's parading the head of this dead dog and saying like this is the Kingslayer's banner yeah there's a lot of things in here but I'm going to focus on this single one right now is this foreshadowing I thought about it when I read

this chapter Chloe I want you to know is this foreshadowing of the Red Wedding which has not yet occurred right there's a lot of hints towards it in this chapter and some earlier ones from Arya and Harrenhal of the Red Wedding of Rob

like with Robb Stark and then Grey Wind's head being impaled like this moment I know and then like then them joking and saying this is now jamie sigil like this is the kingslayer sigil is this like foreshadowing of like jamie joining a stark faction that's an interesting thought and it's really funny that you thought all that because you know the first thing i thought was harm a dog's head harm a dog's head is wild i got really excited i was like oh harm a dog's head and there you go again this is kind of what it feels like maybe it's just the way george writes these kind of characters um yeah no that is foreshadowing

though and it's in this book so it's foreshadowing. I mean, it's painstakingly obvious. There's so much stupid fucking red wedding foreshadowing in this book. There's so much. Yeah, and I mean, like, that's good, right? It makes it feel cohesive as a book. I mean, there's so much that I never even noticed, like, until my, like, severalth read-through, right? Several, yeah. didn't even oh shit yes several like that is a number that's a number Vargo would say and uh it yeah I never would have even thought about that till now so what does that say about me I mean like I didn't even notice that

line until this reread so I was like huh interesting interesting I guess we're not really looking for the red wedding anymore you know what i mean like we already saw it so why i guess our brains might not be looking for more our brains are like thank you had enough of that satan shit i mean for me what standed out what stood out first and foremost is very obvious of like signs of the red wedding is like some of this gossip stuff we're gonna get into in a second right with the news yes but like this one didn't until now um but yeah um for now though jamie's just making his way into heron hall varga hoats like announcing his arrival as the king slayer and like jabs a spear at him and like

i don't know this this moment and the parading of jamie and brian bound like i it reminds me of two things it's like way of a stretch but it kind of reminds me of like when they were parading Jesus towards Calvary for his crucifixion right making him like carry his own cross as Jamie's like carrying his hand and then being like stabbed and shit and then the second one is like the parading of Circe in the streets of King's Landing obviously that one's on a much larger scale but like this parade is very much about humiliating Jaime and a big part of that is the loss of his manhood through his hand and see how low the Kingslayer has been brought and that's very much what like I think Cersei's parade is about to like see how low like the lioness has been brought whereas for circe it's

very much about like her womanhood and shaming her for it uh by exposing her body really great call um it you kind of see the same thing with brienne later when she's in the bear pit right uh this book has a lot of that like pride slaying stuff in it, but especially for the Lannisters as they fall from grace bit by bit. Jamie stops his fall as he falls using his stump out of habit, but he manages to power through the pain this time. He sees some frays. He offers condolences for the death of their mutual relative kleos who was killed by these people here he says it loud he says it proud uh very smart very catelyn stark right there because what did she do she said very loudly i'm going to winterfell and then did not

and here he is going oh kleos was killed by the brave companions for everyone to hear very smart no no one cared. Brienne also is letting her attempts to get help fall on deaf ears. She's like, honor your oath to House Stark. Do you run their banners here or not? And it turns out they're like, IDK them. And Jaime is like, interesting, what?

And they're like, yeah, Stark didn't honor his oaths. Why should we honor ours? So Brienne's ready to like leave she's like this sucks but Jaime's like interesting I'm logging on I'm very online yeah and Jaime gets it doesn't get it he has to wait for a bit because turns out no one gives a shit about what Jaime wants no one gives a shit about the Stark girls either. And what they care about now, Shagwell the Fool. He's here now. He's trying to, he's here to ship.

He's thinking about a lion and a bear. He's excited. That's the gossip that he wants to be talking about. And that's total foreshadowing too. In many different ways. Finally, Roose Bolton makes an entrance, sets everything straight. Jamie makes a wisecrack and Bruce is like, I don't do jokes. He's just like, I didn't notice that you have like a missing hand.

I thought that the way he's introduced here was really sinister. Bolton's silence was a hundred times more threatening than Bargo Holt's slobbering malevolence. Pale as morning mist, his eyes concealed more than they told. Jamie misliked those eyes. So Jamie opens here and says his fever made him fearless against Roose Bolton. So it's notable that Jamie, without his sword hand, fears Roose Bolton. And Roose is a fucking weird creep here. He's chilly, he's spooky, a fucking weird creep here he's chilly he's spooky he's super

pale he's icy uh it's very chilling it's a very chilling scene to enter heron hall again and this leech lord is who's heading it absolutely i do think that ruse bolton's scary together ruse and vargo uh ruse is like all right so i don't do jokes but I'm here to deliver that info dump the gossip that you Jamie Lannister truly want assisted here by Fargo Hote we will do an info dump so to run through it quickly Robb Stark has executed

Lord Karstark Lord Tywin is just chilling in King's Landing because Joffrey is getting married and by the way it's not D'Sonza Stark XOXO Gossip Squirrel but wait there's more Stannis lost at the Blackwater and now the

Lannisters are massaging a lot Stannis lost at the Blackwater securing an alliance between houses Lannister and Tyrell also your quote unquote nephew wink wink Ruth Bolton knows is alive and well. Also, your sister. Oh, also your brother.

They're all fine. Bruce Bolton. More like Bruce Hilton. This is all so inspired. Bravo on your mini lightning round. It's like you never left. It's not me. It's Bruce Bolton. All credit to our lord. You're inspired. Yeah, our leech lord.

Leech lord! Roose finally shows as much compassion as he is capable of. He has Brienne untied. She immediately tells on the brave companions for trying to rape her, and Jaime's hand kind of tells on itself. Again, his hand seems to do that. These jokes just write themselves. Roose expresses displeasure

and brienne is now told she is safe in his uh care and then he makes a super villainous exit his cape swirls and everything his fabulous pink cape swirls i want to make sure we highlight this is a fantasy series and jamie and brienne exchange these longing looks before Jamie finally sees a doctor. And it's Qyburn, the best character in the whole thing. Is he? Interesting. Interesting take. Fucking hysterical.

Actually, though. Mate. But for now, Qyburn's alive. The infection is bad. And Qyburn's like, what if we just cut off the whole arm? And Jamie's like, absolutely not. Don't tell me what to do. He threatens to strangle Q kyburn if he takes off any

part of his arm kyburn's like all right fine fine you're gonna want look at the poppy for this and no jamie we're doing it live lannister only agrees to wine which hot take is this not dumber like wouldn't that just thin out the blood and make the bleeding worse is there any bleeding still i don't know i'm not a doctor it's medieval times i'm not a doctor um i don't know anyone who's ever like gotten that to like a tattoo is just like you're not supposed to do that i mean people do it all the time anyways it's fine because all that happens is kyburn's just cutting off a bunch of rotten flesh it smells bad um and when it's all done jamie fainteded a little bit Jamie faints a lot in this chapter okay

Kyburn's like so I didn't cut off any of your arm and in fact I left you a little bit of flesh as a treat cover yourself with it a little gross really gross it's kind of cute in a way but also not you know their interaction here oh it's like

like when your cat brings you a dead animal like thanks i mean everything else in this chapter was just so like horrific that this you're like this is maybe almost warm and fuzzy but not maybe warm and just fleshy i just don't know what's warm and fleshy, fuzzy, fleshy anymore. Like, this book has to be fucked up, man. Like, is this nice? Is this wholesome? Is this wholesome content? Also, I feel like this reminds me of something that happens in this book, right, Chloe?

Oh, was it a chapter that we've talked about before? I mean, maybe. Like, John 6 in A Storm of Swords? That's not too far off, right? That's soon. And if you remember, there's a part where Aemon cuts into John with a hot knife, and John swears he will not scream, and he broke that vow as well. And that really, of course, reminded me of this part of the episode,

so good callback to that. He has freakyaky fevery dreams after that which we're going to get to eventually yes and I mean very interesting that these all like are coming together similar here it's a little

different though of course with John like for John um for his symbolism as we've discussed like uh for that wound had to do with like egret right for jamie here i kind of wonder like you know the removal and all the care that goes into the scene of the cutting off of the rotten flesh and so much of it have to having to do with scent there's a lot of scents going on and odors in jamie's chapter here right from brienne's and his breaths and here with the stinking of the pus and the painful process

right of removing that rotten flesh is this like a metaphor for jamie's character development he goes through a lot of pain right in order for him to heal and what does it take to save the man underneath unfortunately like for jamie this mutilation is very special and significant not like in a good way obviously but it is a very significant moment in his life but it's not significant for vargo hope because he does this shit all the time he's just like out there cutting people up and kyburn's like yeah i have to heal people up all the time and sew them up man like uh by the way welcome to my life story kyburn says and he's like i'm just gonna tell you about it and jamie's like that's good because i can't fucking do anything right now because my hand's gone completely uh so kyburn's like well

i was gonna be a maester once then i lost my chain no reason haha don't ask and then jamie's like can you tell me something useful like about the black water and kyburn starts to tell him about what happened and jamie thinks immediately of the green fire and he thinks he's dreamed this before and there's this oh this passage is quote that's so good jamie saw green flames reaching up into the sky higher than the tallest towers as burning men screamed in the streets i have dreamed this dream before it was almost funny but there was no one to share the joke yeah really ah so good this is like such a great line it's such a great hint right it shows like jamie's loneliness line it's such a great hint right it shows like Jamie's loneliness and it's such a great hint towards the Ares reveal and like why the Blackwater hits home for him

in a different way yeah and the way that this chapter is completely formatted right like it opens up his hand burned and here it is then you have the fires in the sky. And I mean, think about the Tower of the Hand burning. There's all too much like wildfire going on in the Lannister family for Jaime to be comfortable. He's all like, why is this a thing that you're choosing? Yeah. And I love that he dreams this before. And it's the nightmares that he's had of Aerys's court and Aerys doing this, obviously. But he's seeing it in his mind right now and yes

it's coming as a traumatic flash but at the same time I would argue that he's thinking in his mind of if it's in Cersei's power does Cersei know about it is she gonna use it yeah he doesn't know what's happening he has no news this is the first news he's gotten and all he can think is how is that flame going off yeah and I mean he kind of like knows it's tyrian but he he doesn't really truly understand his sister's connection yeah with all of this yeah and like it's something that comes through in feast of course um something that i i'm just gonna pull up randomly is like it reminds me of how so in avatar the last airbender blue fire is like significant and tied with the zula right and part of the reason that like the creators did that is not just because like a it wasn't just because like blue flames are hotter they kind of just did it as a stylistic choice right to distinguish

her and you end up kind of getting that right with house lannister they end up becoming distinguished by their use of wildfire in that green i don't know they're just like this is cool imagery you can you can associate it with them now well steve associating kyburn's like what the fuck happened to your eyeball because jamie's just got a big old brute on his eye and jamie's like, what the fuck happened to your eyeball? Jamie's just got a big ol' broop on his eye, and Jamie's like, I got it from a wench. Excuse me? We have come so far, Jamie. You're so close.

So close. Just say your name. He's just... When no one's around you, say baby you love her. I can't tell Kyburn that I have feelings. Kyburn is like, but he senses it a little. He can kind of feel it. He's like, did I see a slight blush there?

When Jamie said, oh, a wench. Right? And teases him about rough wooing. That actually isn't in the text. That's something I made up. Jamie once again pulls the secondary act. He's like, you should just focus on tending Brienne's wounds. She got hurt too. Not that I'm doing it

for her. Yeah, why? Why would I do that, Jamie? Why should he care about this wench? And then we end with some banter about Ruth being into leeches. Everything sucks. Dude, Jamie Lannister just walked into like a fucking snuff porn.

Like, Harrenhal is Rob Zombie gone wrong. You have Vargo carving chugs off people, making them fight bears, getting them naked in bathtubs. It's a horror movie it actually is and i guess like that's what harrenhal is supposed to feel like yeah uh but kind of like worse it doesn't feel haunted it just feels like the the haunting isn't being done by ghosts right and i think that's something that's significant it's all terrible because of the people but then as not a cast pointed out you've got 1984 basically happening in heron hall at the beginning of this book or when we're at heron hall in general and i'm really excited

because we're actually going to explore more of this when we talk about the brave companions in our patreon episode that's for patrons five dollars perhaps we and perhaps we are actually the ones who are brave and companions in diving into this subject it's girls gone companions that sounds lewd oh my god it sounds like we're in this rob zombie film gone worse too oh my god i know. I don't know. I don't want to be in this film. I don't want to be in Harrenhal but we're going to be in Harrenhal next week too when we cover Jamie 5. And hopefully you will be away from

the birds. I think I will be. I probably will be. Yeah. Everything's coming to Haleana. That's another horror film. Fingers crossed. Well based on The Brave Companions by George R.R. Martin. Well. You guys that's another horror film fingers crossed well based on the brave companions by george rr martin well you guys thanks so much for listening to us this week i'm sorry for the way we are and again sorry for the quality of the audio um thanks for coming along with me on my trip that is uh

face some obstacles you know there's a lot of challenges in the world today it's an opportunity i like to say you're having a lot of opportunities every day that's a lot of challenges in the world today. It's an opportunity, I like to say. You're having a lot of opportunities every day. That's a way to put it. And you, dear listeners, can follow all those different opportunities along with us on social media. You can find us at girlsgoncanon, C-A-N-O-N

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but we are hosted on Podbean. We're on Spotify. We're on Google Play, Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, Acast, you name it. Yes. And of course, again, we do have a Patreon where for $5 and up, you might not get an episode about the Brave Companions, but we do have special episodes

this past month Chloe was joined by guests to discuss his dark materials in the latest book from the Book of Dust prequels but this is technically a sequel whatever the secret commonwealth I fucked that up whatever and

this month though we will be returning to a song of ice and fire so stay tuned to find out what that episode topic will be yes and that is patreon.com slash girls gone canon for our five dollar and up patrons we are so thankful for all of your support you guys thanks so much for joining us every week all of you i have been one of your hosts chloe and i have been another one of your hosts eliana i'm baking in this room so hot thanks for joining eliana in her themed episode where she is getting ready for jamie five getting ready for the sauna episode ahead of time god all these trips they make you travel and travel

they make you sweat and sweat they make you motherless and damned goodbye goodbye goodbye guys