Girls Gone Canon Cast - ASOIAF Episode 85 - ASOS Jaime VI

Episode Date: April 3, 2020

"You want her? Go get her." So he did.  ---  Eliana's twitter: https://twitter.com/arhythmetric Eliana's reddit account: https://www.reddit.com/user/glass_table_girl Eliana's blog: https://themanyfacedblog.wordpress.com/ Chloe's twitter: https://twitter.com/liesandarbor Chloe's blog: www.liesandarborgold.com  Intro by Anton Langhage

Hello and welcome to Girls Gone Canon, A Song of Ice and Fire, Episode 85, Jamie Sixx in a Storm of Swords. I am one of your hosts, Chloe. You might know me from the internet as Liza Narber on Twitter, Tumblr, and LizaNarberGold.com. And I am another one of your hosts, Eliana. You might know me as GlassTableGirl on Reddit or on the Maester Monthly monthly podcast maybe you know me as arithmetric on twitter hello we're so excited because this is the episode this is the romance this is i drop eliana off at the airport i drive away but then suddenly i am wreaked with passion in the pit of my stomach and i turn my car around and i drive back and I get into the airport and I make out with her. That is what this episode is

but it's about Jamie and Brienne, not me and Eliana. I'm sorry. Yeah, no one should be at the airport right now. And we should not be making out. That is not social distancing. We're a pro social distancing

podcast so this time we will stay socially distant in our very separate cities but we are excited to be together tonight with you guys to talk about jamie and with you all in a storm of swords if you guys are our friends on patreon.com we do have a patreon if not we still have episodes for you here but we did do a special episode for patrons in our stranger tier and above about tyrosh last month in march yes it was actually really fun and not only do we talk we talk about an expansive amount of things about tyrosh right now we're not just talking about the city. We're talking about many things Tyroshi, including, of course...

Snails? Actually, we do talk about snails a lot. I was actually telling... Wait, you weren't gonna say snails? No, I wasn't gonna say snails, but I was explaining snails to at some point, look out in your feeds. Eventually there will be a new Maester Monthly for you at some point in our lives.

I was recording, of course, with Joe Magician and Bookshelf Stud, both of whom have been guests on here. And explaining snails to them. Explaining the importance of the Tairoshi snail. But I was actually going to say Dario. Yes, Dario. You know, we had a very positive response to Dario, and I feel good about that, because I feel like I've been a really motivating factor

in that positive Dario response. I like Dario. You know, he's a dick, but like, I mean, we've seen my track record of what I like. I like Sandor. I like Dario. I like those characters. Also, Dario's character just works.

You know, it makes sense. Like, I understand that people are like, ah, but he's not like Darkstar, you know? Darkstar's a failed character. And after last episode, that was, like, doing that deep dive answered a lot. So check it out! That was our

20th Patreon episode about Tyrosh, affectionately named It's a Me, a Dario, Tyroshi, and more. And as we record this, along with it being our 20th Patreon episode, Chloe is coming up on her 20th birthday. Tomorrow.

Oh my god. What? I made that up. It is in fact Chloe's birthday but not since her 20th it's her 21st all over again no you know what it's okay yes

I turned an age this week by the time you guys are listening to this I will be that age thank you thank you for your wishes presently before after happy name day they're accepted it's an age everybody's like

i'll full disclosure it was april 1st that it was born so everybody's like oh we should cancel april 1st this year i'm original and i'm like whatever i wish you fucking would wow you're like i'm gonna stay the same age forever so this month's Patreon episode is going to be geared towards His Dark Materials, the other series that we are covering. If you guys aren't following us covering that, we are into the book The Subtle Knife, the second book of the main trilogy

of His Dark Materials. And this month on Patreon, we have decided that we are going to cover one of the smaller side stories, the spin-off stories called once upon a time in the north came before once upon a time in hollywood so keep up i'm just kidding um settle down boys men everywhere uprooting riding uh once upon a time in the north is covering a friendship unlike any other that eliana and i i think are very excited to chronicle between

lee scoresby and yorick burnison the bear and the renegade yes and we've talked about it a little as we've spoken about these characters in some of the other episodes which uh you know you haven't started reading historic materials or maybe you already have and haven't listened to our episodes, you should do that. I was convinced I did it and here we are doing a podcast on it. Yeah, here we are with Chloe knowing more about the series and having read more of it than me, so clearly it was good. The student surpasses the

master. Yeah, next she has to kill me. Then she's gonna become a Sith Lord. Happy birthday, Chloe. Best birthday then she's gonna become a sith lord happy birthday chloe best birthday ever you guys we did get a handful of emails tweets of note and we got this message from one of our friends nick our patron and it was about loris tyrell and renly baratheon a rare pair to be discussed on girls Gone Canon. Nick asks us about you know, I have a question that I don't think is brought up much. I was just re-listening to

your final Sansa Storm of Swords chapter. Wow, throwback. And you discuss how obviously fucked up the relationship between Sansa and Littlefinger is written. I have to ask about another relationship though, Renly and Loras. Loras was knighted at 15 and was a squire for Renly for an

undetermined amount of time before that. We know that some nobles such as Doran and Barristan often become squires at 9 or 10. You mentioned that Littlefinger's obviously taking advantage of a younger and more naive victim. Given that Renly is approximately six years Loras's elder, do you think we could apply the same rules to this situation? How old was Loras when their sexual relationship started and should it be viewed as either coercion slash molestation i would love to hear your opinions you know this is an interesting point i've seen it discussed maybe one or two other times and i do think there has to be a little bit of coercion involved and with that i mean you can't say there isn't molestation to an extent, right?

To be knighted at 15 means he had to have been there for like at least a year before. And 19 to 14 is still a large age gap for Loras having been that young. I imagine Loras was, and look at the family, right? Loras was probably sent to Storm's End under the guise of what you are to do as you are. Bid for Lord Renly, like for the good of her house. If you need to, you need to do it. And look at Margaery. She's not the only one being sold like cattle in this family.

And we know very much that sending children off to war to other houses is a political contract it's not just marriages but i don't know to what extent it would be pushed from renly as well do i think there was a direct dealing of renly can have sex with loris whenever he wants now we're famous and rich no i don't think it was that i think it was just on the table as soon as they decided that Loras would go there. They probably hoped for it more than thought it was their only hope, if that makes sense. Like I'd imagine Renly was probably lonely because when he was 19, that would have been 296 AC. Game of Thrones starts with Waymer Royce in 297. So Loras would have been 14 in 296 AC. And that's pretty much when Renly would have been named the small council. I don't think George has put quite as much thought into this as

any of us are right now also, but the lover's stint would have to be a brief stint, like six months to one year to even happen. And I think it's also a little different as far as age gaps for grooming with little finger and sansa because little finger's whole thing isn't about sansa it's about her mom right it's like this weird revenge porn thing happening for renly i think he just would have been lonely because his brothers were ignoring him and he has that whole youngest child my parents died on a ship drowning thing going on yeah i yeah i don't think george has put that much thought about into it i i i don't think that we can say that there wasn't any grooming involved right i think more than anything it speaks volumes about house tyrell and probably what their legacy is gonna reap and so no pun intended yeah it's like oh interesting pun um but yeah

well thank you so much nick for the question and let's roll into our lightning round which is starting off with tyrian five in a storm of swords tyrian is sent to greet the dornish visitors to the capital and it turns out they have a lot of work to do. Arya 7, Arya lands in the hands of the Brotherhood Without Banners. Who means to ransom her to her mother? Bran 3. Bran's party stays at Queen's Crown during a storm, of sorts, but the threat of other men mean he must use his skin-changing abilities for both bad and good.

John IV. John must make a hard choice to save the realms of men and turns cloak once more from the free folk. Daenerys IV. Daenerys meets a new ally who helps guarantee her success in Slaver's Bay. Oops. It's a me, Ad aria 8 aria is handed a basket full of mysteries from the ghost of high heart and also from edric dane she is later captured by sandra clegane and that brings us to our overview of jamie six in A Storm of Swords which is of course I quote

you want her? Go get her. So he did. Chef's kiss. It's just like this is a romantic chapter. I'm really glad to be doing this with you. On your birthday? I would come back for you in a bear pit. In the

airport. I would come to the airport and I would be like, wait, as you board at the gate, like I'd somehow get past security, even though that's not like real life. Yeah. So time has passed. Jamie's arm is finally not infected. Jamie's arm is finally not infected. He thinks. Jamie was anxious to be gone,

to put Harrenhal, the Bloody Mummers, and Brienne of Tarth all behind him. A real woman waited for him in the Red Keep. I'm gonna come back to this way later when we're back at the Bear Pit, but hmm. Yeah, I'm like, hmm, interesting, Jamie. The language of the healing and the fever right and how but at least we're saving the stump it kind of makes me think like are we talking about jamie's humanity and soul a question in the universe that i'm putting out there i think we're always talking about jamie humanity and soul, Rihanna. Yeah, that's true. That's why we do this podcast.

Bolton had sent Qyburn along with the party, with Jamie's party, revealing Qyburn's hope to get his chain back. Jamie says if anyone can give Jamie his hand back, that person will be Grand Maester. Hmm. Hmm. back that person would be grand maester hmm so no pun intended on one hand anyone who could like give jamie his hand back i'm just gonna say it they would deserve to be grand maester they seem like a very qualified person it's like ario's ario wow it's like aria says to barrick you know could you bring a man back just one who died once without a head like not not more than that not seven like you you greedy fuck but makoro i know

i'm like maybe does makoro qualify i think so he could do it look at victorian they saved that motherfucker yeah makoro for grand maester grand maester Makoro has a good ring to it. I'm going to be real. We meet Steel Shanks. Oh, Steel Shanks. Steel Shanks, the railway cat. He's a simple soldier. Oh my god.

Steel Shanks is like an Animal Crossing villager name. Oh my god, you're right. But it's the name. So I say Steel Shanks in that song voice because there's a cat in the musical cats named skimble shanks and he's the railway cat oh yes yes that's why i sing it i see no you don't brought to mind um th Tank Engine. I see it. Because of the railway. I see it.

Steel Shanks is a simple soldier, and Jamie thinks he's much like those other men that he's fought alongside. Men who will do anything that their lord commands. They'll plunder post-battle, and then they'll be like, whatever, go home, raise a family after it's all said and done. And he's like, I don't think that Steel Shanks really matches the cruelty of the brave companions. He doesn't really fit in with them.

You know, it's funny he says that because I don't think Sandor Clegane really fits in with the Lannisters, but here we are. Here we are. Here we are. That's what I thought of. I thought of Sandor Clegane here

when you think of that typical outlaw knight. Yeah, and I guess Sandor also has the same thought, throwing it out there. I had these other thoughts here how on one side you could argue that Jaime was not so different from Steelshanks following Lord's commands, it's just that

the difference is that Jaime was so willing to follow Cersei's commands mostly when he knows what those commands are and what she wants. Like, he thinks in later chapters of how, like, Cersei had probably wanted for him to kill Arya for what happened to Joffrey that one day. But, you know, she never got those words out, so he didn't really have to think about that. And though Cersei didn't ask it, like, his willingness to just, like, kill Bran. to think about that and though seriously didn't ask it like his willingness to just like kill bran but on the flip side of all of that like of course jamie's gonna judge a guy who like

would do anything their lord commands that you know those people were like saying oh i'm just doing my job and that role of soldier mindlessly and then their ability to just like go home not thinking anything of it because they think it's just their job and raise a family do all the things that they're told they're supposed to do growing up because jamie you know he explicitly didn't do that when he was like no fuck that fuck my commands i'm gonna kill aries and you know he chose that hard road even when his colleagues like the other king's guard were like no you should be more like people like steel shanks because we are like steel shanks we're gonna just stay on the side when injustice happens yeah jamie definitely sits there thinking humbly on this soldier thinking oh he would do this he would do this but that's what he's doing he's going home to cersei all he's thinking is

i just have to get home to cersei yeah it's it's sad to see see Jaime project on these fellow soldiers because he tries to cling on to this last bit of like noble status, right? That he is a Lannister. He is the son of Tywin. He has this noble background that he can fall back on. But at the same time, he's just a soldier amidst a war. Yeah, that's why he kept thinking of himself as like a sword hand. It's not like foddering. Being the best sword hand only is like you're still a sword hand.

Yeah. So on their departure, Bolton asks Jamie if he will give his warm regards to Jamie's father. Jamie's like, yes, I will, as long as you bring my regards to Robb Stark. Interesting. What does that mean? Not what Bruce Bolton thought it meant we're going to a wedding god it's gonna be great oh my god winter is coming jamie gives his sweet goodbyes to the rest of his companions promising he'll return to pay his debts he wheels his horse

to join steel shanks steel shanks and his merry 200 men, dressed in knightly garb, shield, sword, chainmail. He dons a brown surcoat over all of it, not dumb enough to dress like Jaime Lannister. And he has a shield, by the way, that has the Loston sigil on it, black bats on a field of silver slashed with gold. And if you recall, the lostons had held heron hall before the wentz but they died out of course and there's this awesome line i think it just

encompasses all of jamie in this but he would be no one's cousin no one's enemy no one's sworn sword in some no one so first off the language here is of course like really reminiscent of what happens in aria's storyline like i don't know how you read like someone's no one you don't think oh aria um and together like both of those kind of go to show that as aria removes all those things right that identify her as a stark she's like navigating what it means to be no one and this idea of not having the lannister garb not wearing those garments so prominently like as though that makes him part of someone's family that's what's identifying him and i think that's really what's going on with jamie as he tries to become no one

like on the road at this moment in this very moment he's on he's in limbo being no and he's trying to find out like who should jamie lannister actually be when he's not trying to fit the role of what everyone thinks Jaime Lannister is, or the role of Kingslayer, right, of course. And then especially at the end of Storm of Swords, there's so much in his story that's concerned with, like, who is Jaime? What does it mean being Noa? And then, of course, being who he he is now which is all we've been talking about well when there's nothing left to burn you have to set yourself on fire whoa don't do ariese's job for him um no it's a great thing to look at for jamie too because like this whole time he's had this set of names set on him. He's the Kingslayer, Oathbreaker,

you know, all these different names that he's been set with so much that Jamie finally can set aside all of his identity and now what's left? That's the scariest part of it. It reminds me a lot of Jon Snow, in a way.

Who's Jon Snow? Oathbreaker. Bastard. Damned. Damned. Yeah. Damn. I thought it was something to note about the Harrenhal history here. The Lothsten line, which

had ended, which history, the world of ice and fire, fire and blood, everything, whatever. I don't think it's actually in fire and blood, I'm sorry. I just got carried away with books. The world of ice and fire fire and blood everything whatever i don't think it's actually in fire blood i'm sorry i just got carried away with books the world of ice and fire the mystery night chats about danielle lost in danelle lost in however you want to pronounce it uh she turned to dark arts and sorcery which had caused the end of the lost in line and she ended up supporting blood raven she was one of the river lords that did against the black fires in the mystery night she rode forth in strength from her haunted towers at heron hall

clad in black armor that fit her like an iron glove her long red hair streaming the light of the rising sun glittered off the points of 500 lances and 10 times as many spears the mystery night something about danelle's description here kind of reminds me of rhaegar especially with this fever dream but here a redhead which is interesting also when you think about danny's fever dream right of uh the the whites melting in her dream or the people melting. There's also a family member that I think we might see in the Winds of Winter come up named John Lothston, who's in exile with the Golden Company. And so he could be a real Lothston, could be just some guy,

but kind of makes sense for him to be real, right? An exiled lord. It'd be kind of interesting too, if he were one of the Lothstons and part of the Golden Company, considering that Dannell supported Bloodraven, right? Yeah. Yeah. That'd be... I had never, like, really noticed that. The bastard.

So that's very cool. For now, though, anxiety strikes since they're taking the back roads, and Jamie just wants to get home to Cersei. Maybe even make it to his son's wedding. Joffrey's wedding. His nephew's son. He tells Steelshanks the King's Road would be faster and Steelshanks is like, It's not safe, Jamie. Getting you there safely is my goal.

Jamie remembers the last time he came through here. The place where the mill Miller's daughter had been. She had smiled at him shyly when he went long, long ago, and now that inn is covered in weeds. And the Miller had actually told him, you're going the wrong way, the tourney's the other way, and Jamie thinks, as if I had not known. I love that. I really did. I thought that was just something to focus on because it was just like kind of cute. Like you could just see Jamie out there on his white steed kind of trotting like, oh, I'm hot shit. Oh, I'm hot shit. Oh, I guess I'm no longer hot shit.

But up till that point. Yeah. It's kind of like it's an interesting, bitter opening to this. an interesting bitter opening to this. And we'll talk kind of about this framing in a minute, but Jaime wheeling about in his horse, chivalrous, finally gleaming in armor, like this is the biggest display of Jaime as a true knight, right, for that first time for us, but it does quickly go to shit. Kang Aerys made a great show of Jaime's investiture. He said his vows before the king's pavilion, kneeling on the green grass in white armor while half the realm looked on. When Ser Geralt Hightower laid the white cloak about his shoulders, a roar went up that Jaime

still remembered all these years later. But that very night, Aerys had turned sour, later. But that very night, Ares had turned sour, declaring that he had no need of seven Kingsguard here at Harrenhal. Jaime was commanded to return to King's Landing to guard the Queen and little Prince Viserys, who'd remained behind. Even when the White Bull offered to take that duty himself, so Jaime might compete in Lord Wentz' tourney, Ares had refused. Though Jaime might compete in Lord Wendt's tourney, Aerys had refused. He'll win no glory here, the king had said. He's mine now, not Tywin's. He'll serve as I see fit. I am the king. I rule, and he'll obey.

That was the first time that Jaime understood. It was not skill, with sword and lance that had won him his white cloak, nor any feats of valor he'd performed against the Kingswood Brotherhood. Ares had chosen him despite his father, to rob Lord Tywin of his heir. Even now, all these years later, the thought was bitter. And that day, as he'd ridden south in his new white cloak to guard an empty castle, it had been almost too much to stomach. He would have ripped the cloak off then and there if he could have, but it was too late.

He had said the words whilst half the realm looked on, and a kingsguard served for life. Damned. Damned. Motherless. Actually, though. Mm-hmm. Literally, also. damned motherless actually though literally also yeah it's

we keep getting these like snippets of Jamie's life here and a lot of what's here kind of comes back to what we were talking about of the commodification of Jamie in the last episode it's there's that line of like aries saying of jamie like he's mine now not taiwan's it's the same way

people seem to think of women especially as they pass from one father from their father right to another man's sort of like ownership and in, and even the scene, right? A cloak gets put about Jaime's shoulders. Same as with the marriage ceremony. And it is just like we see people like Cersei wed and give up their entire life, right? I mean, when Cersei wed, that was giving up her freedom for her. That was her signing away her life.

That's the same thing as this Kingsguard cloak that was laid around his shoulders. It was wetting him into that life. Yeah. And here he thought he found a loophole. He's gonna get to be with Circe. When she does that, that's what happens when you

Should've listened to fake kid. Should've banged people who weren't your sister she has a stomach she has a back oh my god i'm just saying she has arms there are better places you could have put it afterward kyburn rides beside jamie inquiring after his hand and jamie thinks about what he wants to say in his feelings rather than answering aloud. He thinks it's a waking nightmare. He asks Jamie, though, if he enjoyed his visitor last night.

And Jamie says, oh, yeah, that girl. She didn't say who sent her. He's almost like, what? I had a visitor? And he's like, oh, yeah. her. He's almost like, what? I had to visit her? And he's like, oh yeah. Kymeron sent a girl named Pia, apparently,

to Jamie to assist him with some exercise. We know this girl actually from Arya's chapters, because Pia usually sees ghosts, aka men's penises in the buttery. Very delicately done. Good job.

Thank you. I said penises. Is that delicate yes is it in aria 2 in a clash of kings there's this quote about pia and as lords and ladies never noticed the little gray mice under their feet aria heard all sorts of secrets just by keeping her ears open as she went about her duties pretty pia from the buttery was a slut who was working her way through every night in the castle i get you pia rock on you fellow slut good for you good for her and she's like you know she's getting her she was trying to get her goals and i'm like i respect that i also only realize now that part of the joke of her being in the buttery is uh the churning i only just got

that the funniest thing ever is there's this line from hot pie and he's like pia keeps saying she sees things in the buttery and he's like i think it's ghosts or something and aria's like pia's always seeing things in the buttery mostly men i I'm like, damn, Arya, settle down, you little slut-shamer. Yeah. It'll be you someday, girl. She learns later on. You know, she starts befriending people, getting more perspective on life.

For now, though, Pia's slipping into Jaime's bedroom and out of her clothes very quickly. Jaime thought he was dreaming. He's like, this is interesting. This girl's very skilled. Can't be real. She got into his bed was dreaming. He's like, this is interesting. This girl's very skilled. Can't be real. She got into his bed and then he's like, oh wait, no, this is real.

She told him that she saw him once when he came for Lord Wentz's tourney and that he was so handsome and a brave knight and that some nights she'd actually imagined that it was him in bed with her. And so the other guy's never thinking that she'd actually have a chance with him. Yeah, this is this was kind of sad especially when you consider pia later oh absolutely i'm actually really excited to talk about her in a feast for crows but we'll come

back to that obviously but this chapter in general is framed with that first mention what you said about the miller's daughter earlier on how jamie remembered the day he was going to the tourney that was about to be the start of his whole universe about his whole life and he saw the miller's daughter shyly smiling at him through these weeds and he goes on with this really sad thought now this village is just you know just desecrated right it's just burnt down and he's like oh well everyone here is probably dead and all the grandchildren are probably dead, too. And Pia is like this sense of like sudden light, right? Like she came to him reaffirming you were a true knight and you were everything I based all of my sexual conquests on. Anytime I was working or doing anything like I pretended it was you that was within me.

That truest night i ever saw and then this chapter ends with jamie choosing to be that chivalric knight finally right like it ends with him saying maybe i am good maybe i still am that boy that i once was right when i was knighted of the king's garden i think the framing of this is so smart by choosing to use pia who ends up this character of violence you know is committed against her awful violence and I really do like this part of Jamie's character that Pia gets even a place in it yeah and as you said I'm excited to talk about what that role is like more in Feast uh she becomes a big part of that, and honestly it's quite horrible

what happens to Pia. Like, incredibly so. Just very cruel. But for now, coming back to these young girls' perceptions of Jamie, I kind of think of it as like it's this girlish version of how John perceived Jamie when he first saw him.

For these young girls, they're like, oh, wow, a true knight and some sort of romantic interest, whereas for John, he's like, oh, that's something to aspire to. That's what a king should look like. Yeah, there's a lot of John echoes, I feel like, in this chapter with what he's going through, especially in A Storm of Swords. Yeah. That evening, though, Jamie sends Pete away, reminding himself that he has a woman already. Who?

You know, Jamie's really loyal. Actually, he is. He's incredibly romantically loyal to his twin sister. Can't forget it. Everyone's got to remember that. It's real interesting. Jamie asks Qyburn if he often sent girls to the people that he leeches. Interesting. Qyburn admits, you know, Vargohode once had an STD, so he actually does send girls to be checked

by me? And Qyburn's like, it may amuse you to know that Pia there is healthy. And your girlfriend from tarth is too also brienne's a virgin jamie's like what the fuck why for the ransom like why do you know this information does her father need to know that she's a maiden still and kyburn's like hey we've had a bird from selwyn from tarth. He offered 300 gold dragons for Brienne's return, which is a totally honorable amount for a knight.

The irony here, of course, that Brienne is a woman, merely a woman, may I add. And Jaime, a knight, has had some crazy trading around for, you know, young woman, barely woman. That means they don't even count as real beings. But Qyburn then goes on saying that vargo hote wants sapphires good job jamie and that vargo will not listen to any of the truth about the sapphires existence and that he's convinced selwyn's trying to trick him jamie's like saw that one coming but

in his mind and i thought this was a call-out moment. He was like, he speaks to Brienne in his mind here, and he's like, well, be grateful my lies spared you, wench. And I'm like, Jaime, she's not there. I mean, she is. She's on your mind, but she's not there. She can't hear you. Yeah, she definitely can't. Yeah, I forgot that was an interesting call-out

with the honorable amount for a knight. And as you said said Brienne is a woman so maybe it seems more than that but Jaime doesn't even think of that oh interesting amount for a woman he thinks oh for a knight because in his mind he's already starting to think like yeah Brienne's a knight duh. Qyburn makes some gross joke saying that if her maidenhead is as hard as the rest of her, the goat will break his cock off trying to get in. Ew. And Jamie thinks she's tough enough to survive, but will Vargo Hote chop off her limbs if she resists too much?

But then he stops and thinks, why should I care? Thinking that if she had just given him Cleos' sword, none of this would have happened. Why should I care? Because you love her. My god. Yeah, he does.

And that's actually why. Because, like, he starts getting weird, right? When it's talk of Brienne's maidenhead. And not only is it because he's, like, worried about her, but there's a- There's something in the language that makes you think, like, are you jealous, Jaime? Are you jealous, like, about the Maidenhead? Yeah, a little bit, I feel like. The answer is yes.

The answer is yes. Qyburn is actually starting to get on Jamie's nerves, unsurprisingly. So Jamie's like, fuck this, and heads to the front of the column. He's like, I'm gonna talk to someone else now. And gets just behind the Northman Nage, who's been carrying a peace banner it's a

rainbow stripes though interestingly with with seven long tails and a seven pointed star to top it off and jamie's like that's kind of weird ask steel shanks why are the northmen carrying like a new gods based flag in the south and steel shanks it's like so that we can get safe southern peace and passage through the lands duh duh please tell me you're not only pretty jamie god jamie wonders if his father had received the ransom for him and if his hand had made it there as well big ram ramsey vibes and then jamie thinks what is a sword man worth without his sword hand half the gold and casterly rock 300 dragons or nothing again jamie thinking on how much he is worth monetarily like a product he thinks about his father and

also about how not sentimental tywin is understatstatement of the century. Right. And his mind goes to the Tarbacks when his grandfather, Tytos, imprisoned an unruly sworn Lord. Lady Tarback had responded to this by kidnapping three Lannisters, including young Stafford, Joanna Lannister's brother. Lady Tarback sent ransom for her Lord, swearing the three boys would come to harm if he isn't returned.

Tytos, though, was too soft, let them go, and Tywin later saw his vengeance, of course. Jaime thinks, now you have a cripple for a son as well as a dwarf, my lord, how you will hate that. I think there's such a big part of this chapter, and this bit in A Storm of Swords in general for Jaime, where, and I guess it's something we explore kind of in Arya chapters with Catelyn a little bit too, but when Jaime gets home, all he can think is, would my dad have even wanted me? Jaime feels worthless without his sword hand. But of course, it turns out, Jaime is kind of that special golden child to tywin right and the only one that dad kind of would even think about setting bail for

and the one safe bet that jamie thought he had cersei is actually the problem here when he gets back yeah she's the one who's like i don't know know if I want you. After all. Yeah. A number of reasons. They go through a burnt village first, though. It's roofless. The weeds are waist high. And Jamie, once more, remembers coming through this place. There had this time been a dark-eyed serving girl giving him cheese and apples.

And the innkeep had actually refused the Kingsguard's money, saying, oh no, I can't do that, this is amazing, saying that he's like gonna tell his grandchildren the story for years to come. But of course, a lot of other things happened in those other years to come, and now Jaime wonders if did that innkeep ever get those grandchildren, and did he tell them that the Kingslayer drank his ale and ate his cheese, or was he like too ashamed to i mean what would you do i would tell him i don't know if i wouldn't be ashamed i don't know if i would tell them that like it was the kingslayer or not but i would uh probably that just makes the story better right right but jamie of course like it is a story he's thinking of himself in the context of those legends and stories but obviously he sees himself as more of like an infamous figure as the villain he's kind of not wrong he's just like not wrong about the wrong thing he's kind of more of a

villain for like throwing the kid out the window not that yeah steel shanks back to walton he mentioned stopping and staying at this place, but Jamie urges them on. He dislikes this place. They follow through the woods. His stump is throbbing and they set up camp elsewhere. Qyburn brings dream wine to Jamie and Jamie gratefully props up his bearskin against a stump at the fire.

He remembers Brienne telling him to eat before he goes to sleep, to stay strong, but he can't fight it off. He hopes he dreams of Cersei, but instead of just dreaming of Cersei, a fever dream erupts. I would like to say that, to be honest, he does kind of dream of Cersei. He got kind of his wish.

Kind of. I'm also thinking, is there like a sort of wordplay thing going on here, right? We all know now that Jamie slept against like a stump. And he has a stump now. Is that like a thing

that's being played with? I don't know. Anyway, this dream, as goes with most dreams, where you find yourself feeling vulnerable and uncomfortable, Jamie is naked. And also, just like other naked and comfortable dreams, Jamie is surrounded by enemies, but in my

perspective, everyone feels a little bit like an enemy when you're the only naked person in the dream and you're not supposed to be. That's just how I feel about that. It's a classic dream. It is classic. And I think that's you know a testament of course to george's ability to write so realistically and we have this quote that i actually really like

the rock he knew he could feel the immense weight of it above his head he was home he was home and whole he held his right hand up and flexed his fingers to feel the strength in them. It felt as good as sex. As good as swordplay. Four fingers in the thumb. He had dreamed that he was maimed, but it wasn't so. Relief made him dizzy. My hand. My good hand.

Nothing could hurt him so long as he was whole. Uh, part of why I also called out this quote is, long as he was whole. Part of why I also called out this quote is we've talked about it before, especially in the episode with Jean, and that was a big one for us because we felt that the fighting scene, right, is in many ways characterized as a sex scene, but here we kind of get that a little

explicitly with Jamie saying, it felt as good as sex, as good as swordplay. The two are so equated for him. Yeah, that's a's a great call out good call I didn't even think about that Jamie asks the dozen robed hooded figures who they are and why they are at Casterly Rock unsurprisingly they do not answer him but poke him with spears instead so he descends and wonders wait i need to go up because he knows that if he keeps going down something bad awaits him he tries to stop but they continue pushing him with their spears and jamie longs for a sword finally he stops in a large dark cavern with water and the shadows explain what this is. Your place, the voice echoed. It was a hundred voices, a thousand,

the voices of all the Lannisters since Lann the Clever who'd lived at the Dawn of Days. But most of all, it was his father's voice, and beside Lord Tywin stood his sister, pale and beautiful, a torch burning in her hand. Joffrey was there as well, the son they'd made together, and behind them a torch burning in her hand. Joffrey was there as well. The sun they'd made together, and behind them a dozen more dark shapes with golden hair. Sister, why has father brought us here?

Us? This is your place, brother. This is your darkness. Her torch was the only light in the cavern. Her torch was the only light in the world. She turned to go. Stay with me, Jamie pleaded. Don't leave me here alone. But they were leaving. Don't leave me in the dark. Something terrible lived down here. Give me a sword, at least. I gave you a sword, Lord Tywin said. It was at his feet.

Jaime groped under the water until his hand closed upon the hilt. Nothing can hurt me so long as I have a sword. There's a lot of good stuff in this Fever Dream. This whole goddamn chapter is good. Fever Dreams, yeah, this whole chapter fever dreams in general there's a lot i think in this one moment and honestly that last line i think is the core of jamie's character then nothing can hurt me so long as i have a sword well up until this point i feel like it's his version of tyrian's you know armor yourself and what you are and no one can use

it against you kind of thing jamie has like allowed himself to be defined as a sword hand we see like over and over throughout his chapters and as a knight even though he's like not one that sticks to that chivalric code and it's just like not that no one could hurt him physically because he was such a good fighter right until you know this all happened but so long as he was extremely really good competent at this one thing that every boy dreams of being no one could judge him like so long as he was a good sword hand you know he could be a good knight he could be a good lannister he could be the king's guard right like big dreams they're all legends and no one could question his ability even if they could question his morals and i think

that was important to him ever especially because he was like oh my ability didn't get me into the king's guard apparently and like it raises another question for me though some of the other things in this dream because like he's surrounded by all of these lannisters past going back to land the clever and the ones who are here it's quite interesting because joffrey's included we know joffrey dies in a few chapters and tywin's also included we also know he dies in a few chapters in this book and circe's down here she's prophesied to die and it's telling him that his place like that beneath the rock is his place, but then they all kind of leave him. I don't know what that part means, but like the rest of the dream kind of reminds me also of like John and his dreams of the crypts beneath Winterfell calling to him.

That's a really good thought. And I don't know if maybe it's some sort of foreshadowing too, like you said, but it is also something reminiscent of Cersei's vision, visuals when she goes through her walk of shame. When she starts getting like guilt focused on certain people, it kind of reminds me of that. So it does make me think that those that are specifically seen are very much so doomed. So that's interesting.

The sword lights a fire, silvery blue, but it doesn't reach Jaime. Also, he has boots now, because it's a dream that can happen. So he's not entirely naked. It totally does. But now the boots are wet and cold, and he's telling himself to beware the water,

which may have things in it, dark things in the water. Okay, we can't not do this whole quote, Eliana. We have to do this whole quote. We have to do this whole quote. It's written too well to not. From behind came a great splash. Jamie whirled toward the sound,

but the faint light revealed only Brienne of Tarth, her hands bound in heavy chains. I swore to keep you safe, the wench said stubbornly. I swore an oath. Naked, she raised her hands to Jamie. Sir, please, if you would be so good. The steel links parted like silk. A sword, Brienne begged. There it was, scabbard, belt, and all. Brienne begged. There it was, scabbard, belt, and all. She buckled it around her thick waist. The light was so dim that Jaime could scarcely see her,

though they stood scant a few feet apart. In this light, she could almost be a beauty, he thought. In this light, she could almost be a knight. Brienne's sword took flame as well, burning silvery blue. The darkness retreated a little more. So first quick side note, because I just can't resist, because this is who I am. The steel links parting like silk feels a little bit like, is it a metaphor about undressing? It's also an interesting reversal, considering that before, as Jaime thinks thinks often he was the one who was in chains and he's like can't someone break my fucking chains please it's like totally an

obvious emotion thing really when you think about it that he's the one always in chains so it's like obviously at this point she wants to be in chains you know it's like a sex thing it's a power thing yeah but now she's not because jamie's like and he's like ramming it in her what oh no he's he jamie's a bottle sorry baby yeah he's about a boat i mean right now apparently not yeah well anyways he's like you know what yeah let's not do the chains thing uh also as you said anyways i love this connection and juxtaposition there of brienne looking both like a beauty in this light but also a knight uh i don't love that like in a few lines jane's like oh she looks more womanly shaped or whatever here because i don't think it's really about that it's all like in his head it's a dream whatever

but it's more than just Brienne being true to herself with a sword and confident that she could be both beautiful and a knight that a woman could embody both when they're allowed to own the things that they enjoy and are good at and want i just find it to be just very powerful language in a scene that he doesn't choose one he's like in this light she's both yeah i think that's very powerful but I do want to ruin it for a second because today when I read this, all I could think was like, one of you has thrown children out of a tower, Jamie. That's true.

In my head, I was like, Jamie, how are you gonna dictate what a night should look like? Even in your fucking fever dream? Go the fuck to bed, Jamie. Go to bed. I mean, Loki, he kind of thinks of her as one. That's why he's like, oh, yeah, that's a good price for a night.

Maybe. Kind of. In a way. It's like that episode of Broad City where Alana dates the girl that looks just like her. We've already talked about this. Oh, we did? We do? God damn it.

We did. It's just, it's all I think about when I think of Jamie and Bria. We don't even have to finish the jamie chapters really at this point just there's not there's a kind of irony there though when i think about it that you say that it reminds you of jamie and brienne and not of jamie and cersei have you thought isn't that kind of weird it's like finding someone more like you than just like what your blood's coded is this like how before this episode you're like, I know you, Eliana. I know you better

than you know yourself. You know, one of my buddies, the friend I call Little Tot affectionately, we always joke we're gonna Freaky Friday someday. Oh. Like, there's no details besides we just always say we're gonna Freaky Friday someday. We're just gonna do it. So I mean, maybe that's what it is.

We don't know. Anyways. Cerseis jamie that when the fire goes out he does too it only lasts as long as he does also vice versa and somewhere george is fucking singing this little line of mine What am I? I'm gonna let it shine. This little la-da-da. Jamie asks Cersei to stay, but he hears her leave. He thinks Brienne looked just as tall and strong as he remembered and more womanly shaped.

Then Brienne wonders if there's a bear down here out loud. She also wonders if there's a cave lion, out loud. She also wonders if there's a cave lion, dire wolves, and then again, back to a bear. But Jamie is edgy and replies, doom. Obviously,

this is part of, like, you know, the part in the dreams in general, people's dreams, where you're like, oh, subtext from real life and how they've been, like, surrounded by Lannisters and Starks and navigating these lands this whole time. Yeah, Sansa says it too, right? Yeah. Tyrion says like

a deer surrounded by and she whispers, she's like lions. Tyrion's like bold that you would say that aloud to me. Interesting. Brienne offers to let Jaime climb on her shoulders to reach the edge of the tunnel.

Yeah. And he thinks he'd be able to return to Cersei, and he starts getting a chub as he thinks about it, then tries to hide it. And then in the darkness, something's coming for them, and it's two riders. I resisted, but you know what? I actually can't resist. Brienne makes language. She's like like something's coming and i'm like it's jamie uh but then i'm sorry jamie's like that's weird that they're writers

because you know like we're underground and all and then jamie thinks it's ned and then calls out but more quiet writers come and they're all armored in snow five had been his brothers oswell went and john dairy lewin martel a prince of dawn the white bull gerald hightower sir arthur dane sword of the morning and beside them crowned in mist and grief with his long hair streaming behind him rode rhaegar targaryen prince of dragonst, and rightful heir to the Iron Throne. Interesting. I like how he detailed the long hair streaming behind him.

You know, I do too, but I guess I never really noticed that Jaime felt that Rhaegar was the rightful heir. Like, right then and there. Like, that to me, the way he thinks that, like, yes, Rhaegar was the heir, but, like, the rightful heir, that means that Jaime thought Rhaegar should have been it. Should have been king.

Which we know. Yeah. We know and we'll hear more about, but that's interesting that, like, there was no question. It's almost like Jaime feels more guilt towards Rhaegar than to Aerys or something. Well, this dream says that, obviously. Obviously. I mean, it's pretty obvious, yeah. Jaime's like, come at me, bro! Makes a quip of like, oh,

but I can take you all, but then who's gonna fight Brienne? She needs attention too, and Brienne's like, wait, hold on. I will protect you. And she reiterates, I swore a holy oath, and Arthur Dayne is like, yeah, all of us fucking did. Why do you think we're in this dream

in this moment and Jamie tries to explain what happened and everyone's like nah he was your king bruh and then Rhaegar also starts guilt tripping him about his wife and kids and then everyone just goes through it all again and starts guilt tripping Jamie

again and we have then this line that closes the dream with, The fires that ran along the blade were guttering out, and Jaime remembered what Cersei had said. No! Terror closed a hand

about his throat, then his sword went dark and only Brienne's burned as the ghosts came rushing in. Finally, Jaime wakes screaming no, just a whole lot. Obviously. There's so much to note about this fever dream.

I'm glad you broke up some of the stuff in the middle. Something important to note, pretty sure this is a weirwood stump as many have discovered before me. The moonlight glimmered pale upon the stump where Jamie had rested his head the moss covered it so thickly he had not noticed before but now he saw that the wood was white i think that explains

a lot of stuff happening here the guilt is all jamie's subconscious right we know that jamie didn't need the weirwood to tell him that but i think a lot of the stuff to do with the others is probably important here um and i think the way that we also see these ghosts appear to his life feels like immense foreshadowing for fighting others in the north we get this line in this about what they look like yet there came two riders on pale horses, men and mounts both armored. The Destriers emerged from the blackness at a slow walk. They make no sound, Jamie realized. No splashing, no clink of mail, nor clop of hoof. They were armored all in snow, it seemed to him, and ribbons of mist swirled back from their shoulders so this and then if you

compare this to waymar royce in the prologue of a game of thrones a shadow emerged from the dark of the wood it stood in front of royce tall it was and gaunt and hard as old bones with flesh pale as milk its armor seemed to change color as it moved. Here it was, white as new-fallen snow, there black as shadow, everywhere dappled with the deep gray-green of the trees. Yeah, and we're also told, right,

that the others move very silently. So yeah, there's a lot of connections between their portrayals there. Yeah, I feel like there are bits and pieces of that Weirwood stump definitely seeping in, especially when we discuss the mist here, that you saw mist, which is an obvious signifier of Bloodraven, as we've talked about.

But there's also kind of this thing about the shades of Rhaegar here. Rhaegar is displayed in a couple different colors. First, we see Rhaegar in a white shade. Then he turns red and then he turns black. An obvious kind of nod to the three heads of the dragon, but also kind of a three shades of Jaime thing, right? White is the first shade that Rhaegar turns, which is kind of like the Kingsguard. And you get the red that is much like the Lannister red and also the Ares's blood red. And then black, which could be him divorcing the Lannister name.

And if you combine that with some of the Brienne imagery we get in this with her flaming sword, she's the only thing keeping Jaime from the darkness in this dream. And she's also in the middle between him and his family which kind of signifies that he's very much so making a choice right after this and returning to harrenhal uh putting these all together he's already embodied that kingsguard role by the end of feast he is embodying that lannister role fully trying to do the least damage that he can, emphasis on trying. And his role to come in the War for the Dawn seems like it could be important. But his sword's light going out first definitely makes me wonder if that black shade of Rhaegar means that Jaime divorcing his family doesn't just mean him going north.

It means maybe he could die. family doesn't just mean him going north it means maybe he could die uh also noteworthy is of course brienne's later fever dream in a feast for crows she could not fight without her magic sword sir jamie had given it to her the thought of failing him as she had failed lord redley made her want to weep my sword please i have to find my sword there's there's just a lot of things in this dream and as you said doesn't mean that he dies part of the dream seems to imply that greatly but but i mean it could be like he's gonna yeah but also it could be that, probably. It could also be like death of what, Jamie Lannister, enter X other new life person, right? Like you've seen that a couple of times in this story. out Brienne is what's keeping the darkness at bay because it's not just like a darkness right it's described as it's Jaime's darkness it's like the darkness within his own heart of who he is and all those terrible choices that he's made like Brienne helping be that guiding light

but as you were saying you know as we were saying like maybe it means he's gonna die that line of terror gripping his throat as that happens and Brienne's light remaining it kind of also reminds me of how Cersei's prophecy regarding the Valonqar goes of wrapping the Valonqar's hands around her throat though I also don't know that wrapping the Valonqar's hands around her throat.

Though I also don't know that George came up with the Valonqar stuff until much later. I think that was something that was gardened a little. My understanding from some of Jen Snow's readings of earlier versions of those chapters before they were finally published in Feast is some of them don't include some of those references to that

prophecy. But, who knows? Yeah. Who knows? Awake, Jamie realizes that he has no hand, once more, on that arm. I felt it. I felt the strength in my fingers and the rough leather of my

sword's grip. My hand. Qyburn and Steelshanks are like, yo, you aight, right bro jamie's like it was a dream but he feels sick as he sees his stump again he refuses more dream wine from kyburn and definitely says no to the milk of the poppy he realizes he had been sleeping on that weirwood stump he thinks of ned and thinks it couldn't have been him. Ned's dead, like Rhaegar and Arthur and the kids. And, of course, he thinks

like Aerys. Yeah, he's like, Aerys is dead, said them all. But coming back to some of what you were saying last episode with thanks to that answer from Quorra, it's fascinating that until Aerys, the people that Jaime is thinking of are Ned,

and he's putting Ned in the same category in the vein as people like Rhaegar and Arthur, Dain, because in the dream he just had, Jaime, his first fear is like, oh shit, the riders are Ned Stark, he's coming again. But instead it's actually his Kingsguard brothers. And it feels a lot like... It almost feels like Ned Stark is, what, Jaime's biggest fear? And it's not because he's afraid of fighting Ned. I do think...

I'm going to throw it out there. I don't think it's that controversial an opinion, but for some reason, if someone thinks it is, in a fight between Jaime Lannister and Ned Stark, Jaime would win. Oh, oh no shit the whole point but like even in death jamie's so afraid of ned and i think that it's because deep down obviously like jamie admires him in a way or respects him that's why he thinks of him in that same category he puts him in like the same breath as rhaegar and arthur all of them are gone these men that he thought of as good and honorable men that he like respected maybe

inspired to depending on who they are gone ned judged jamie before even knowing or trying to understand his point of view and because that it makes his like approval forever unattainable and and that's part of why jamie's like fuck it fuck it i don't need your approval ned star but deep down inside there he's still holding on to that you know it reminds me a lot of the relationship between ben solo and luke skywalker in the hit film rise of skywalker i'm so mad or whatever you know just like blood raven and euron okay yes that one yes anyway so as he thinks he asks kyburn if he believes in ghosts wait can i come back to one more yes um what is the name the tiger the tiger and the small red panda

and kung fu panda i thought you were going to talk about the stupid tiger show and i was gonna be like eliana fuck you i haven't seen it yet i meant i don't care about it talking about kung fu panda and that is important i will not be swayed i don't know what to tell you you've watched kung fu panda right a long time ago oh my god we can come back to this episode i guess now that i'm just disappointed. As he thinks, he asks Qyburn if he believes in ghosts. I actually love this quote, so we're going to do it. Qyburn responds,

Once at the Citadel I came into an empty room and saw an empty chair. Yet I knew a woman had been there only a moment before. The cushion was dented where she'd sat and the cloth was still warm and her scent lingered in the air. If we leave our spells behind us when we leave a room, surely something of our souls must remain when we leave this life. He says that Marwyn felt the same. And Jamie's like, all right, cool. Thanks for that insightful answer, whoever the fuck Marwyn is. Just kidding.

He doesn't. He tells him to get the horses horses but he doesn't want it all to it yeah he's just like okay whatever weirdo uh high ass bitch how much fucking crack did you smoke this morning kyburn yeah you sure you're not taking that tree wine yeah right how much milk of the poppy are you on? But we do know who Marwyn is, since this is a reread podcast. If you don't remember, we get a glimpse of Marwyn in a couple different places. As early as Game of Thrones, Daenerys VII, when we learn that Marwyn met Mirri Maz Duur and taught her the common tongue and about the human body. And then all the way up to A Feast crows kraken's daughter roderick the reader he's reading the book of lost books which was written by arch maester marwin in it marwin claims he has three pages of the legendary signs importance long lost which was authored by danis

targaryen danis the dreamer yes marvin Marwyn's gonna be... I'm interested. Not one of my favorite parts, but I'm definitely looking forward to it. A lot of people are really looking forward to more Marwyn. I mean, he's been planning him for so long. I think that's what's important. He's always known that Marwyn was going to be a guide of Daenerys.

We should call him more... Wyn. Okay. That's the side note. But yeah, absolutely. So it's... We've been getting sprinkles of him till finally here he is in dance and i don't know like on one hand you're like oh kyburn

that's some weird shit that you're saying but it's just like written really nicely and that's why i wanted to call it out i'm like wow kyburn who knew you were so sensitive with all the weird shit that you do and on one hand like this is a fantasy story so yeah ghosts could probably actually very much be real especially because we have ice zombies in the north and then in this very same book we see a bunch of people coming back to life like barrackic and Lady Stoneheart. So there seems to be an argument that yes, something of this life must linger if

there's something to be returned back to people's bodies, right? But on a different level, this answer by Qyburn that maybe the souls that remain in this life, as Jaime sees in his dream i think that you could argue it's just as much about this idea of legacy we talk about it

especially in regards to the starks of how much people respected ned and therefore are willing to fight for him where they are not willing to do it for tywin like so much of tywin's what he's built falls apart upon his death. But Ned left that behind. He left behind his children who all aspire to his example. They think upon him, strive to be like him. Even though we know that Ned had a lot of his flaws upon a reread.

I guess Tywin has that ghost too and it haunts Tyrion especially. Jon Snow has the lessons that he learned from his 20,000 other dads and in a way that's their soul carrying through remaining in his life and Jaime has all those legends and the ghosts of the men that he's trying to live up to

and of course the mothers and children of House Targaryen that are dead that he's shouldering this guilt for that he feels they failed he's wrestling with those ghosts and I don't know I think a big part of the story of course right is like what kind of soul is jamie gonna leave behind yeah i think that's something that's so poetic in that upcoming scene we'll get someday with the white book

yeah i can't wait for that chapter that's a great chapter but coming up legacy right like the lannisters spend so much time living up to what is our legacy but but Jamie now has to live up to something harder, something worse, which is himself. Who's Jamie? Yeah. He's gotta light up his own little darkness. Yeah. Well, allegedly, Jamie's left something back at Harrenhal.

And he's like, we can do this. We have time. I know you think we don't have time. It's cutting the schedule close, but we can do it. And Steelshanks is like, yo, I have to deliver you. And we have this line, once Jaime might have countered with a smile and a threat, but one-handed cripples do not inspire much fear. He wondered what his brother would do.

Tyrion would find a way. Lannister's lies, Steelshanks. Didn't Lord Bolton tell you that? The man frowned suspiciously, what if he did? I just love that Jaime threatens to like tell lies about his father then in this moment about like

who took his hand off to coerce everyone into like his plan and money and that he's now just like what would Tyrion do? and I think this is very much this is a very channeling Tyrion Lannister think this is very much this is a very channeling Tyrion Lannister moment yeah and it does say something about the

upbringing right that Jaime immediately thinks what would Tyrion do in this moment what am I doing wrong and Steelshanks of course is like I like money okay and it does make me wonder Steelshanks was introduced right as that soldier type

like we discussed with iron loyalty and jamie made these assumptions about him of what he would do you know if his lord commanded him to do it that he would do it murder rape etc but then he would go home after war and make a family and it makes me wonder if they both are missing the point about soldiers and small folk and that maybe maybe steel shanks betrays ruse in the end for money from someone or something i don't know he'll probably get eaten by like a white giant but it just makes me wonder if something's gonna happen with steel shanks steel shanks the real big cat he doesn't get chosen to go to the heavyside lair and so jamie and gang push harder than ever before making it back to heron hall by midday and now there's like a whole

thing with the black goat of kohor adorning heron hall you got like really like hellish vibes with heron hall which is like right now, but also always. I was going to say, I'm like, wasn't that already the aesthetic? Yeah. Weren't they always goth? Yes.

Yeah. I thought Harrenhal was already goth with all the bats and shit. Yes. Jamie yells. He's like, open the door. And then no one's listening. So Qyburn and Steelshanks are also like, oh my fucking God.

And they start yelling too and finally someone's like oh there are people and they open the gate thinking like oh it's jamie lannister our ally and jamie internally is like why the fuck would you even think that why would you think we are friends he can hear laughter coming from the yard and he's afraid that it's too late he gallops hard into the flowstone yard where Brienne is being held in the bear pit. Because yes, a bear pit is a thing that King Heron the Black was into. The stadium is not full, but it is still a thing. Yes, Brienne is actually still in the dress she wore the other night to supper, and she has been given no armor. Her left arm is now bleeding. And at least she has a sword,

Jamie's like, all right, at least she's a sword, Jamie's like, alright, at least she's got that. But as she's fighting, she's afraid to close the distance and Jamie's like, that's pretty weird, because if she could just do it, like, she's got good skill, right? She should be able to kill the bear. And Seal of Shanks is like, Jamie, what the fuck are we

doing here? We need to leave. Just leave the wench. And Jamie's like, no, her name is Brienne, and i love her but he actually only says the first part the second part he says with his eyes uh instead he calls the lord vargo to pull brienne out and vargo it's like no i thought it was something important to pull out that vargo is nursing his ear here it's bandaged because Brienne might Tyson him when he tried to assault her yes which is totally apt because of what happens in a feast for crows right where her face is ripped off by quote-unquote the hound biter and I think that's something else strong

about these arts in general that Jamie comes back here for Brienne in this moment because he's growing as a person in his time with her. Like earlier, he has that line, he was anxious to be gone to put Harrenhal and all of this behind him. A real woman waited for him in the Red Keep. But now he's spending all of his chapters thinking about Cersei, but we know why he's thinking about Cersei. We just got the explanation that he's been dissociating and projecting his trauma onto Cersei from the start, pretty much. His relationship with her is idealized and soon learns things aren't really what they seem with her. His relationship and his experiences that he's had with Brienne,

that growing conscience that he's been feeling to do what's right is what's real. He's lived these real things. They are very real things. And what he lived with Cersei was toxic and a band-aid for his deeper hurt. Yeah, she was escapism. Now he has to actually deal with it. And here he is, dealing with real ass things because of Brienne.

he is, dealing with real ass things because of Brienne. For example, here's a bear that Jamie actually thinks of as a hairy, smarter Gregor Clegane. That's more or less actually the quote. He's internally like rooting Brienne like, yes, now you can do it now, get the bear, but she's not going for it aggressively. And for now, actually, neither is the bear since it's fought other humans before and knows what swords do to it which is super sad and honestly in general with the bear pit i'm not sure how i missed this until now on this reread and i'm sure someone else has talked about it before but like everything about the bear pit from brienne fighting in it like fighting this much larger enemy similar height to gregor Clegane, and that difficulty

of closing that distance. The performance of it, right, and being trapped in a pit, it's a setup for that fight that we're going to see later on in this book between Oberyn Martell and Gregor Clegane. Oberyn is able to do everything that Brienne cannot because he's planned for it.

He's brought a spear, of course. Partially because that's typical of the Dornish, but anyways. And he also actually has a real weapon. Anyway. And yeah, he still dies. Also, side note, this is gonna be

covered in an upcoming Maester Monthly, but there's this great comment on Reddit from user 3Q2HB comparing Penny and Brienne's roles in the stories of Tyrion and Jaime, respectively. And it made me think of Penny being forced to perform fights and almost being thrown

into that line pit. You know, like how Brienne's in one here. But bears, and that's all. That's all I got. No, that's very smart smart that's a really apt kind of comparison because they both also pull both of these men out of a deep horrible depression or not we'll see right we don't know the truth yet but back in the bear pit brienne cannot hear jamie yelling kill him as brienne is fighting the bear pit. Brienne cannot hear Jamie yelling, kill him. As Brienne is fighting the

bear, Jamie's like, where is the blood? But then he realizes, oh, she has a tourney sword. He says suddenly, just like frantically to the goat that he'll her go get her so he did the most romantic lines of like anything a lot of them are in this chapter like romance music rose petals yeah pretty much you want her go get her so he did cue running montage brienne is obviously surprised that uh jamie's here she's a kingslayer and you correct her with just jamie and you know this is the buddy rom-com banter that we love but in a bear pit the most romantic of settings then they fight about who is protecting whom once more that rom-com banter that you love. Jamie finds a jawbone in the ground.

Romance. It's covered in maggot. Hurls it at the bear. Misses. Romance. Turns out your non-dominant hand is hard to aim with. And then at some point, Jamie straddles Brienne. Hmm.

Hmm. Hmm. You know, in a way, this also is kind is kind of you know earlier during that fever dream i was discussing the others in that dream but this is also kind of a mirror exactly of what is going to happen against the others i know i was very poetic earlier about it but this is like half fucking half fighting grabbing jaws this is great is great. This is quality. Yeah. Though I will say, the others did not consent to having to be part of this and witnessing this act of public sex.

Well, the bodies that they stole didn't consent either, but here we are. That's true. Absolutely. Sit the fuck down, Eliana. Heroes then start flying into the bear, thanks to Steel Shanks and gang coming up in the rear. And the bear actually starts dying, and it's super sad. Yeah, it's kind of a bad idea. Yeah, because, like, the bear's also been forced to do this, and it's clearly been like, I wanted no part of this.

I've done nothing wrong other than what I was forced to do as a bear in a pit. Shout out to Steelshanks, though, because I don't know, maybe just easily bought to Jamie's side, or morally a softie, but here he is, helping. Yeah.

Steelshanks. Surprised. So Jamie gets out with Brienne. the bloody mummers are ready to fight vargo hode is pissed about the bear being dead steel shanks is making threats especially because you know we stopped for a bloody wench and jamie's like that wench's name is brienne and then also he turns to brienne and he's like, you are still a maiden, right? Because I only rescue maidens, toots. That's actually practically the line also. And it's a great meta quip. Because you know, as we all know, we're deconstructing knighthood here. Rorge calls for blood when Jaime says, all right, it's fine. I'm going to pay the ransom.

Hoth considers doing the fight, but then realizes, wait, a bunch of my men are drunk, also we're outnumbered? And he's like, I hath chosen to be birthiful, tell your Lord Father. That's actually literally the line. Jamie's like, sure, Jan. Yeah, he's like, I'll just let my hand do the talking. And he's like, just kidding,

because your people chopped it off, asshole. He's like, how can you even think I'm gonna be your friend and be on your side after all this Fargo-hood? I can't grow a fucking hand. It's like, you really thought I was going to go to Lord Tywin Lannister and be like, yeah, that guy

was merciful. Bitch, you thought. So they're half a league from Harrenhal finally. Steelshanks is verbally laying into Jaime and being like, Did you mean to die back there? No one can fight a bear with bare hands. That's actually almost pretty much practically the line.

That is literally a joke that is made pretty much, more or less. Yeah, because Jamie then back is like, Actually, I only have one hand. And then he's like, But I do have the right to bear arms. Nobody told me. He's like, Fargo didn't say I could bring the gun show. Here he is.

Flexing. He was counting on Steelshanks being afraid of Bolton, though. So that's interesting. Then we get some even bigger moments because Steelshanks kind of huffs off. He's a drama queen. Khaleesi. It is also a Tyrion kind of move, you know?

Yeah. Counting on that. And then we get this great ending, right? Where Sir Jaime, even in spoiled pink satin and torn lace, Brienne looked more like a man in a gown than a proper woman. I am grateful, but you were well away. Why come back? A dozen quips came to mind, each crueler than the one before. But Jamie only shrugged.

I dreamed of you, he said. Tale as old as time. ah tell us oldest time i know we brought it up with jean when we had fangirl jean on about how jamie and brienne kind of reminds me of taming of the shrew and of course 10 things i hate about you really hardcore and i've been thinking about it in this chapter made me think that Cersei is very much framed as that Bianca-esque character. Right? In many ways. And Brienne is kind of framed as a Kate.

Bianca is, of course. The outer eye sees Bianca as like a doting, docile wife. But when we get the closer look on who she is in the play, she is actually disobedient. Kind of awful, but we can't blame her on a lot of that. Just saying. Some of the stuff with Bianca's suitors does feel a little bit like what George did with Brienne's suitors. But Kate, at first look, kind of looks to be awful to the audience. She won't submit.

She won't marry. And Petruchio sees this very much as a challenge. And there are these two bits from the the play act three scene two i see a woman may be made a fool if she had not a spirit to resist in brienne's case maybe she would say a wench yeah he would definitely say a wench until he's like and patricio does right act five scene one petruchio says why there's a wench come on and kiss me kate of course one of the most classic lines kiss me kate i don't remember the rest of the words to that song also bianca and again those are the only

parts of those songs i know from the musical kiss Kiss Me Kate yeah that's about it for me too you're not wrong but yeah I feel like those parallels are like really loud absolutely I think that's such a great call that that's something that's being heralded here hopefully it has like a way happier ending

than Taming of the Shrew 10 Things I Hate About You classic amazing ending brilliant here hopefully it has like a way happier ending than taming of the shrew 10 things i hate about you classic amazing ending brilliant um technically i mean if we're gonna go with what we're maybe being handed don't you think like maybe taming of the shrew might be a little happier than a song of ice and fire um which ending do you really think is going to be happier for our heroes so this is my controversial it's not that controversial because no one's ever brought it up for it to be controversy but now it is let's go that was about to be controversial okay so i know that people read the ending of taming of the shrew in a couple different ways like some people read it as like

kate and petruchio are like in league with each other and she's saying that at the end to like be in league with him and uh you know this whole monologue uh to help like win the bet or something and some people read it as her delivering it sarcastically and people perform it in a lot of those different ways i've also heard of some subversive um castings of it where like, they'll play around with the genders and how everything's portrayed. And of course, we all know that during Shakespeare's time when these plays would be performed, right? Like, Kate's role would be most of the time like a man playing the role of a woman delivering that same monologue but like i've also seen versions of it where it seems like what if it's delivered earnestly and it seems like kate's just broken

down right like what she endures isn't great as petruchio like his own thing true but not at the hands of Jamie in that same way right it's other things and I think so for me I'm like the ending where Brianne's not stripped of

her agency is the better ending than that. No, absolutely. That's my opinion. But like 50% of them are going to die. So, but Brianne will be fine. Thank fuck. I don't know. Maybe, probably, who knows?

Hopefully, I don't know. Something has happened. That girl is making it to the end. If my girl Brianne doesn't make it to the end I quit the podcast don't we won't even know for a while you don't know that

maybe we do I don't know that was Jamie 6 that was Jamie 6 Eliana that was Jamie 6, Eliana. That was Jamie 6. That was Jamie 6, a storm of swords. Thanks for joining us, you all. We really appreciated you all being here with us. And we can't wait to do Jamie 7.

We're actually really rounding to the end of Storm of Swords so fast here. We actually are. There aren't that many Jamieie chapters i guess in storm but of course if you want to be there with us for those chapters subscribe to us on social media you can find us at girls gone canon c-a-n-o-n on twitter or maybe you too have questions for us you can shoot us an email at girls gone canon at gmail.com hey if you haven't subscribed to us already on a platform where you listen to podcasts we are on most of them check out spotify google play podbean apple podcasts stitcher a cast you name it hopefully we're there yeah we're on a couple

of things we don't even know and of course course, we do have a Patreon episode this month. It is going to be His Dark Materials, about Once Upon a Time in the North. But hey, maybe you haven't heard ours from March, where we covered Tyrosh. So all patrons, $5 and up, get our special episodes. Hopefully Tyrosh is only like the first, right, of a couple of episodes we do about the Free Cities. Yeah, if we don't do a full nine, we'll at least do the three. Making the eight.

Thanks again, all. As always, I'm one of your hosts, Chloe. And I'm another one of your hosts, Eliana, and in just five minutes, Chloe's going to turn 21 years old. Oh my god god i thought it was 20 earlier you're aging

by the minute thank you guys happy birthday chloe goodbye