Girls Gone Canon Cast - House of the Dragon S2E4: The Red Dragon and the Gold

Episode Date: July 10, 2024

SPOILERS: ASOIAF, F&B, KOT7K, TWOIAF, ETC “It’s been said that Targaryens are closer to gods than men… In my eyes, you were a god. Daemon Targaryen. The Prince of the City. The Lord of Flea Bottom. I was an innocent. You exploited me and abandoned me. You sullied my name at court. You empowered my rivals. You tried to make my ruin. You put me on that throne. And you love me and you hate me for it. You created me, Daemon. Yet you are now set on destroying me. All because your brother loved me more than he did you. This is what you always wanted, is it not?” In what can only be described as "an epic hour of television", the Red Dragon and the Gold surpasses our expectations as the biggest battle with dragons we've yet seen on our screens. Meet the halfway mark of the season with us in this episode. Otto Joining the Caltrops theory by u/Beepulons: https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/1dtk5vw/spoilers_extended_hotd_otto_hightower_is_being/ Check out our patreon where all members get early access to House of the Dragon episodes during the season @ patreon.com/girlsgonecanon Sound Effects from Pixabay "Night Vigil" "Big Drumming" by Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/ THANKS KEVIN!!

The The The The The Hello and welcome to Girls Gone Canon Watch's House of the Dragon, Season 2, Episode 4, The Red Dragon and the Gold. I am one of your hosts, Chloe. And I am another one of your hosts, Eliana. Holy wow. am one of your hosts chloe and i am another one of your hosts eliana holy wow and yes are you the red dragon or the gold maybe wait are you trying to i don't know kill one of us well it doesn't

end up good for either uh welcome back to girls gone canon where we talk about the dragon show the hot d eliana we're normally in a song of ice and fire book podcast right like that's our whole usually it's kind of our shtick we got some other stuff too asterisk but right now we are in hot d mode for those that are listening what can they expect to hear spoiler wise if you are averse to spoilers and knowing what's going to happen during this war the dance of the dragons and the story of house of the dragon thank you for tuning in today this just might not be for you and that's fine you can tune into some of our other coverage like chloe said our usual podcast where we cover the books but we are going

to talk about everything from fire and blood the world of ice and fire and the song of ice and fire and the other show that the a song of ice and fire was was based off of game of thrones hyperventilating but anyways everything is going to be covered in these spoilers so if you don't want to know what's going to happen turn back but we just like being able to discuss a story in full yeah freely yes and boy do we want to discuss this fucking episode freely because it was a big boy but before we can do that housekeeping only thing we have up top is patrons have lots of special perks at patreon.com slash girls gone canon c-a-n-o-n that includes

the stranger tier who get special bonus episodes every single month like last month's get shrek'd episode where we discussed the wonderful world-class film shrek or of course members in the thunder tier get access to discord as well as events over on discord like brunch slash happy hour this month's is taking place on july 21st bonus episode. News will be released about that soon. Stay tuned. And I think that's it for Patreon. Eliana, where can they throw their emails

if they want to send in something? Yeah, if you want to let us know something that you think about the episode, or I don't know, about the story in general, you can let us know over on Twitter at twitter.com slash girlsgonecanon, that's C-A-N-O-N or shoot us an email very fast, very fast, though, you know, we might double back. We'll double back on some things at girls gone canon at gmail.com. That again, that's C-A-N-O-N. And, and yes, we did do Shrek

last month. And I'm going to say, I think that episode seems like it was a hit. Seems like people really enjoyed that one. I'm so glad. We had a lot of nostalgia on the Discord. A bunch of us were just like talking about what Shrek meant to our childhood and our childhood and our like teenagehood. Yeah. So that was a blast. That took us back.

Had fun doing the episode with you as well. Learned a lot from each other, I would say. There was a lot to learn in general. Like you learned a lot to prepare for the episode about the production. And then you learned a lot about Shrek is love, Shrek is life. I feel like there were a lot of childhood stories too, even. I feel like you shared a lot about your life. I don't know.

Feels good. Yeah, i think we did we did it was a trip down memory lane my critics are saying it was a feel-good special yeah kind of well you know what didn't feel so good for everyone no what what to anticipate from this this this week's episode right like for example when with the emails we got a pre-mourning, like a pre-grieving email from Warren about Rhaenys. Yeah, it was a great email. Thank you, Warren. We are very much going to miss her, too, as she is kind of the voice of reason at the table.

Yeah. No longer at the table. Reason has gone out the window. And by that... Is reason in the room with us right now reason is dead uh we also got an email from our friend tana who uh commented that she sided with eliana on a take about aegon his um feelings about the king's guard which is okay i'd like a little spice in my friendship relationship with tana so

it's good it's good and then honestly props to low for getting us an email so quickly be like low listen to what we say in terms of get your emails in fast if you want them in for recording all right low brought it with also a morning of rainhaenys and just to echo this like the way she interacted with her dragon especially killed me big sad killed her too whoa sorry wow no no it was the way she interacted with the

other dragon that killed her if you really think about it if you really think about it sorry I'm laughing through the pain there's a couple of other things in here too such as did amon deliberately wait to engage in the battle when he saw that aegon had arrived hoping that aegon would get hurt and it seems like maybe he wanted to kill him after the battle at least i think kristen thought that i think a lot of people thought that we'll discuss but you know there's a difference between wanting to and doing it but

anyways a way to get rid of his lifelong bully the person in his way to the throne all in one while making it seem as a result of the battle and that low actually appreciates the way that agan makes the decision this episode to to do something and join the battle and absolutely yeah i also love that with those parallels with damon and what his nightmare says to him about his brother, right, too, in this episode. Just all of these great brother stresses going on in the episode. There's a lot of stress this episode. Amongst

the stress, pregnancy, right? We're using this email as a little appetizer to the rest of the episode. Lo is wondering about how Moon Tea works and the inconsistency of it, though does acknowledge you know, it's a fantasy story. It can work however, but

yeah. And also, Lo asks the question that everyone is wondering why did Daemon take the potion from Alice? Yeah. Yep, that's on the list today, too. On the list. i like this like lots to discuss i like this

acknowledgement of the castle being magical af and how damon's bed uh i saw it i mean i think a lot of us saw it as callbacks to other things but as a callback to theon's chapters in a clash of kings and i thought that was a really good call out oh yeah absolutely i like that theon and of course we'll talk about jamie i think today later too with that one him him low also goes on to say that corliss finally showed up in a council meeting that they missed him last week he needs to back up the women in his life even if he's not fully on board with women ruling all things. I'm pretty sure we discussed Virginie and Lo over at Ragman's Harbor, but via the Silent Sisters podcast for their episode three, that sometimes as a woman or person of marginalized gender, you unfortunately need a

cis man to amplify what you're saying. I wonder what Corlys will do now after Rhaenys' death. I mean, I know what he does, according to Fire and Blood, but I wonder how the show will portray it. Agreed. I do wonder how all these reactions will be, especially because Rhaenys volunteers to do it and stuff. And also, I think that's the big question, right? How's the show gonna play it? And I've been enjoying it so far.

Yeah, especially after their parting and bringing Adam and Alan into the fold. question right how's the show gonna gonna play it and i've been enjoying it so far yeah especially after their parting and bringing adam and alan into the fold i'm interested to see that yeah low closes out with the use of high valyrian was interesting in this episode both amand and rainies speak it to their dragons while aigan does not and there is of course the fascinating scene during this council meeting where amand speaks high valalyrian to Aegon, and it seems quite clear Aegon's not as proficient in the language. I think it's truly fascinating to see who speaks the High Valyrian and who does not amongst the Targaryens and how the language is used. Virginie talked a bunch about this when we did a season one recap, how High Valyrian is the language of royalty in Westeros. It's a trapping of power to speak it.

She compared it to how the Frankish kings in what is now France spoke Frankish, not the Romance language the people spoke. The royalty probably understood the language of the people too, but Frankish was the language of power. That's what was spoken at court. One could imagine the Targaryens doing the same thing, but they don't. Most of them speak High Valyrian to a degree, but don't fully use it as a trapping of power. If they did, it would be a bigger deal that Aegon and Dracerys, for that matter, as we see in Season 1, don't speak it fluently.

I just thought it was cute that Lois said things you notice when you start making a podcast with a linguist, speaking of their co-host version. So cute. It is. Yeah, I like that call-. And I know it's something that we're going to discuss. You immediately messaged me. You're like, I knew Agen understood Valyrian, which I think I do think Agen fully understands Valyrian. Yeah. It's like how I can read Italian, but I can't speak it fluently. I can speak some of it, but I can't speak it right now i can make you a

very simple sentence but i can read it now like i can read most sentences yeah and i think that is interesting because like what language is stored the way that we process and learn language is stored in different parts of the brain and we we also discussed the usage of valerian within this family in season one but coming at it from a different perspective not necessarily for as um language of power which is true and is interesting like you think even of what latin versus italian speaking of italian during during that time and during dante's time right like the inferno was written right in italian which was because he was like this is gonna get way more traction and and power this way as opposed

to writing it in latin but i it is interesting because like what for amen to be fluent in it like it makes sense for bella and and reina to be fluent in it they grew up in pentos right and so there would have been many people speaking valyrian there are many people who do speak valyrian in the current day but obviously it's not around all the time at court and i think like that's why they're not using it fully as a trapping of power like no one really speaks it at court other than the people who are the servants who take care of the dragons and it's what is such an important bond to be able to speak that for some of the characters we meet like damon right and raniera who they're very first seen together is them speaking valyrian and it's kind of secret and i love the way it's used in this episode almost as a secret between them in front

of the entire court yeah i do wonder if the maester knows it because we've seen maesters who know high valyrian so i thought that was interesting and yeah i think there's a lot more to meet the eye for him this episode too i think the maester i agree i agree. But, or while we think about him, sorry. There's more to come, I think, with puns with Orwell's name. like coming from an immigrant community where many people don't speak like Tagalog under like coming to the U.S. or and that's not just that I'm just talking from my experiences like I have other friends right they might not necessarily speak whatever their parents language is and some of them can fully understand some of them can't there's a range of it and some of them can fully understand but cannot speak um so i i just don't think it's weird for me that aegon and jace don't speak it if it's not an everyday like thing for

them like amen to who is amen talking to to become that fluid like how do you even know you're that fluid and conversant if there's no one to practice against do you understand what i'm saying like he doesn't have to olingo and he's the poor for it no but also like he doesn't care about his brother he spends his days doing other hobbies women it seems yeah and drinking yeah i don't know like it's not like he's sitting around talking to amen because amen fucking hates him they're not practicing together and like we don't see helena necessarily learning it or practicing it and they're they've actually got a tougher thing than reynira or reynira's kids do because both reynira and damon speak high valerian both viscerys and emma likely did but only one of the parents for agan helena, Amund, and Darren.

Darren probably knows it. He's over, like, studying. Like, that's his little shtick. Yeah, he could take classes at the Citadel if he needed. Yeah, he probably knows it. But, like, they only had one person from their parents who was fluent in Valyrian. And that person hated them. Sorry, not hated.

Didn't think they existed i'm like i think hate is a different experience than i didn't know i had these kids to this day they're still revealing children no literally literally literally but anyway thank you for this email thank Thank you everyone who wrote in. Yes, write us in this week. Email us. Okay, let's talk a little bit outside of the show, but still about the show before we launch on into the whole shindig.

Eliana, set us off. Yeah, so my quick meta was the commercial for this episode of House of the Dragon was for Industry, a show that I'm pretty sure like you and I are the only people who watch and only because you told me Eliana, please watch this show. And I did, and I'm really excited for it coming back. I'm really excited for Kit Harington to, to make his comeback and like,

hopefully, you know, get other roles. Like I'm, i'm worried about kit um harper and yaz are the real allison and whoa or when you're an allison sorry and it looks like in the trailer there is some real smackdown going on i can't wait to see yeah i'm excited for industry the show that is only made for you and me, maybe. You know what?

I think others are hearing the sound, seeing the lights. I think people are coming along. Okay. People will watch it. I hope so. I really do. I will say there are some moments in season two that are so good. Bring me to my knees. heart-wrenching you

gotta watch it yeah yeah oh my god the whole thing with her brother just i'm just excited and i'm excited for eric you know i love eric eric is a favorite character you gotta love it you have to it's illegal so interesting to not love him i want to get in that head and see what really fucked him up the most, you know? Interesting. Watch industry. Well, a different industry. The murdering and slaying of dragons that we're going to talk about today. We don't really have a clever title for our meta corner this week.

Maybe we'll workshop one throughout the episode or while you were but wait we'll work on it or while i want to talk about where we are in fire and blood because today i spent the time not on the clock during my working hours rereading Fire and Blood, uh, just up to like where we're at, just to to remind myself what's next, where we are. So this episode was called The Red Dragon and the Gold based on a chapter from Fire and Blood during the dying of the dragons. What does it mean? What does it mean? So this means we've already covered the dying of the dragons, the blacks and the greens. That was pretty much season one. And the dying of the dragons, a son for a son, which was the first handful of episodes.

So now we are in the red dragon and the gold. After Rook's Rest, here's what's kind of left in red dragon and the gold that we haven't seen on screen necessarily yet. Doesn't mean it will happen. Doesn't mean it won't happen, right? So keep an open mind. Come with me, everyone. Stretching the Riverlands warring to cover the season is really smart, right?

That's something that I think is going on in the background, an easy plot in the background. But reading through, Otto still has Dorne and Essos to cover. They went a little out of order there, right? He's already lost his handship, but it looks like he's going there. So at least and Essos to cover. They went a little out of order there, right? He's already lost his handship, but it looks like he's going there. So at least to Essos, maybe not Dorne.

Daemon has only begun taking the Riverlands. Aemond taking the throne is coming after this episode. Lannister armies descending on the Riverlands and the Westerlands. What book is this? And the Ironborn going off as well. Harrenhal being abandoned and King's Landing being taken by Daemon and Rhaenyra. Perhaps the finale. Talk about it later. It feels like it's being set up. Jacaerys and the Dragon Seeds. Corlys presenting Adam and Alan when Rhaenys is dead.

The Gullet kind of seems like maybe it'll be a remix on Timeline, and that'll happen next season now. Who knows? Leaning towards next, but we know little and less about the end of this season. And battling in the Reach with Tesserian, which I am guessing that can be glossed over in council meetings for now until season three. So, that's what you missed on Glee. Glee! After that, we have Glee, Rhaenyra Triumphant, Rhaenyra Overthrown, and the short, sad reign of Aegon II. Um, in a, like, nutshell, like, pulling outside, thinking of all that,

that's not that much until Hour of the Wolf. It's not, and I, we've discussed it. It's fast. We're obviously gonna get Hour of the wolf it's not and i we've discussed it we're obviously gonna get hour of the wolf but on hotty um i'm working on hotty it's coming up way fast though that is literally like part of next season already maybe and then moving on to reneera triumphant for the season yeah i don't i don't know if it's too fast and that i'm also like they wanted 10 episodes you know like let them have 10 episodes let them let them do it let them stretch it but maybe they couldn't do it i don't know if you saw this theory our friend Bookshelf Stud shared it from the A Song of Ice and Fire subreddit. It's by

bpulans. Basically, the idea is that Otto Hightower is being set up to become part of the Caltrops, which I thought is interesting. Oh, I think you mentioned this to me. Did I? Oh, wait, no. Maybe I sent you the link. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I was like, here.

This is interesting going around. So anyway, throwing that out there. We don't have to dig into it, but we can link it. We should link it below. I think you did bring it up last week and they were the group of nobles conspiring to kill Hugh Hammer

and Ulf the White during the second battle of Tumbleton. It was basically, you know, you to keep the actors paid and give them jobs. So like the idea that this might be something that Otto could become part of. Well, and there's something to like introducing randos that are going to die or going to get off screen really fast and not not not take effect that when we look at characters like Diana, who's now working in the brothel, and we saw her in a lot of the scenes last episode. Hugh the Hammer and Ulf the White being introduced now and starting to worm them, white worm them,

into plots. Misaria, just all sorts of characters that can absorb some of these plots. Yeah, so. Maybe we'll include it, but, you know, speaking of randos no i'm joking um no yeah i think we need a new we need a new category uh before we get into episode scenes of what the randos in our life are thinking because you have some people some that are sullied some that are unsullied i have parents that i'm seeing it with this week, and boy, did they have some takes. I'm excited to hear their takes.

So I can't quite remember what my dad said, but I will have you know that my father, we got him very into succession one Christmas, a couple Christmases ago. And we got both of them into it both my mother and my father and my mother had to go do things to get ready for christmas you know because she does the christmas dinner stuff cooks it all etc me thinking of the bear my dad decided to keep going without her cited that she wouldn't know what she missed that's a betrayal no that's betrayal that's what i said to my roommate husband roommate was like you think she's just gonna have a stroke like what do you think's gonna happen that she just won't it was like four episodes later he was like you think that she's just not gonna know you watched four episodes no i'm like legitimately shocked like that is so me and my mom watched

all of the season without him wow okay okay and then made him watch uh brooks rest without watching the rest of the season that is quite that is quite revenge we feel good i think we feel good we too got our revenge like some of the characters want fuck dignity I want revenge exactly quote my mother unquote so my mom did not really know who Agen was until I explained who he was to her she did watch season one maybe not attentively or hardcore or twice um i oh my god i couldn't even take it seriously when the war broke and and kristen cole came back too from being unconscious she said i wish it was him that died instead of rain it should have been you literally Literally, she Ketel and Starked his ass. And I was actually

in shock and I had to really play it off because when we were re-watching the episodes, because she hadn't seen them yet, and they showed Helena with Allison, she said, that queen girl, I'm worried. She's going to commit suicide. Everything's going so horribly for her. You don't

survive that. Aww. She's a mom. But I was like going so horribly for her. You don't survive that. She's a mom. But I was like, damn, not far off on that one. And I know, I can't remember what my dad said, but he said something that was actually on the money about somebody dying or something. And I was like, all right, okay, you two aren't too shabby at this. Considering that was the only episode that he watched of the season. Yeah. I like. It's what he deserved. I like the, who's Agen?

Yeah, she really, I don't think she knew necessarily who he was. I was like, don't you remember him from last season? She's like, nope. Sure don't. They did switch around his actor a lot, and those actors didn't get very much screen time so i do

get why it might be a little harder to establish like facial recognition for that one comes right back to our corner a couple weeks ago right like is it because we love it i don't know but it is still a good show even if they don't know what's going on because let me just tell you she cried yeah oh my god i'm gonna put her business out here she cried she cried when rainies died twice she watched it twice she did she also did she watch it with you when you were watching that's so sweet that's so tender i love that isn't it tender yeah my monday rewatch she said well we better go put it down on the bar oh that's sweet but yeah I don't know I'm starting to wonder if it's because I like it and know it's gonna happen

because like there are things where I feel as though I can fill in the cracks and I don't mind for example you know the fake out but not fake out of Aegon II being dead at the end yeah which I don't mind because I know I don't know like for

some people i think they felt like when they learned that he's still alive next week which they told me to let them know it is not my fault you know how i feel about spoilers people have agency this is not aegon's council they have the choice whether or not to know and they want to know so i told them and they were like oh I don't know that feels really cheap I don't like that so um I don't I don't know like is it just because I love it unsure I think that's an okay reason too though I was like on the second rewatch even though it's amazing cgi it's amazing dialogue amazing costuming i was watching it and realizing i'm like is this cheesy i don't care if it is but is it some of it might be a little and like that's

what i'm being told some people are saying like and by some i mean just these people streets yeah the streets of my house um i don't know randos so i hope they never listen to this am i a little cheesy yeah we're cheesy that's like what a big part of our podcast i thought right we love cheese oh we love cheese i thought we were really cool though cheese is cool like if you think about it okay one of the top tier foods unless you're like what lactose intolerant or jaharis oh so true so true best let's go to king's landing babe let's go to king's landing let's go we're gonna talk about alicent alicent and her moon tea girl devastating

one meet up with Rhaenyra had you like gotta get that man out of my fucking body but really I liked getting to watch her make a hot water uh you know compress thing a compress for her womb

that's real, real been there. I mean, not for, yeah, but yeah, she doesn't, we don't know if she knows,

knows if she was pregnant or if it was just a preemptive take, which I think maybe it was just a preemptive hoping for preemptive. But I think that once she saw, especially in the small council in the last episode, right? Once she kind of saw the dynamic change between them, it became a situation she does not want to be a part of. Yeah, especially it's interesting because at least at this time, if she were to have a child, there's a little plausible deniability, right? Like, that could have been Viserys's, right? We could fucking plummet, house plummet. Yeah.

Because it's recent enough, but it's not the best thing to happen. But also, just don't. Just get that out of there. Yeah, really interesting when it comes to or while coming in and kind of showing his self-serving nature what we know to be pretty self-serving from fire and blood right um switching sides making himself look good and bad and refusing to take a side to alicent but like i would also be doing the same so i really can't hate on him for that. And we'll talk about Larry's strong in just a minute and what his position and leverage with Alicent in this really is, but she played a light part this episode, right?

She did a lot of heavy lifting in the episode last episode, and this was about war and dragons, so she sat some of it out. Otherwise, I will say, loved her return to you know kind of shaking off the coating she she's got both cersei lannister in a feast for crows and catelyn stark in a storm of swords happening for her right now amazing that condal is adapting that yeah can you tell us a little bit more about like what that looks like how how is she being cersei in beast and uh catelyn in storm oh cersei as the queen mother who did everything she was told she was supposed to do from a young

age have children for the king well okay she kind of did everything she was supposed to be doing kind of while sinning in between and taking her pleasures where she wants and also maybe making impulsive decisions and hoping to rule and then also being undermined at the same time not just her poor impulsive decision making but being undermined constantly uh by by men seeking power around her whether or not what she wants to do is good or bad no choice is being able to be made and of course then there's catelyn stark right grieving who has to lead a war for a cause that maybe she doesn't really want to support fully anymore because she just wants her family safe and home and far away from the wreckage uh i think there are equal parts of that stirring within her and also all the catholic

repression as we know yeah that's true very catalan indeed indeed i was also thinking like you know seriously taking the moon tea right to not bear any of uh robert's children but that was obviously way way in the past like a little bit before the main story starts and her fling her king's guard fling yeah that that guy that guy we'll talk about him a bit later Jaime um another way yes another way that I kind of saw her being like Cersei is you know how uh a lot of people say that Beast Cersei is becoming more like Robert especially in regards to the drinking. And I feel like Alison is kind of becoming a bit more like her dead husband in some ways, too, but mostly as a parent. Right. Because she really only cares for one of her children, the daughter.

And I mean, the series did have two daughters, but in a way it was kind of the same. I mean, Viserys did have two daughters, but in a way it was kind of the same. Yeah, no, absolutely. She, in some ways, she has to become complacent because she realizes she has no real power here. And then even with Viserys, she's becoming like him in reading theory and history and loving the books right because we see her seeking these books throughout the episode and reading and mad at Agen about the books because she's kind of looking for a justification right something to tell

her historically or some sort of sign she's looking for a sign that what she has been doing was right or worth it or maybe even wrong but something something to tell her what this heiress could have been thinking yeah trying to come to the same conclusions reading the same books and god she's not gonna find what she wants yeah i mean i don't like the only place you really see

it written down right which is which is a difficulty with oral histories to an extent but when when people all die out but it's on the knife and i mean it must be somewhere else because rhaegar found something but like she's she's struggling right now i'll say like you know i she gets called out being like oh i didn't know you were interested in history and like first of all uh obviously she does that's why she's holding you know viserys's fun little historical like action figure jk but also i i don't know if that's even true right like she kind of seemed to be interested in history mostly though because she was hanging out with renera under the heart tree i mean it's interesting you bring that history of her and viserys back into

it right that dragon piece we talked about last week that piece of dragon that could be mended that she mended and gave back to him but now it seems that it can't be mended right and she is probably thinking back to his warhammer valyeria set that her son destroyed and now he's gotten rid of the books oh my god oh Agen Agen Agen Ageneron yeah I don't even know if it's like

he doesn't like these things I think he just legitimately and I understand why you know like his dad but yeah bad bad memories dude i get it yeah allison's entire persona kind of seems shaken after she met with raniera again no pleasantries no candy coating she's blunt she's awake she's disillusioned um especially to agan in that scene i really loved that when she was kind of spoke she speaks to him like she was once spoken to right hell even just the other day otto told

her what i don't want to hear it yeah allison told him be nothing stay nothing that's how you're the best right now and i i mean i also want to add taking an ab or deficient doesn't make you fucking jolly no like i've seen a lot of jokes about alicent drinking moon tea and i'm like moon tea the same thing that ruined liza tully's life y'all are just gonna laugh about that like well they didn't uh i don't know it was it seems like that one was poorly brewed also. But yeah, it did. It's not the best of times, right? Like I've, I've had friends who've gone through it and does not seem like it's very fun. And she went and she saw the ex who fucked her up, you know, like, that's, that's what happens. She saw her ex girlfriend was like, damn. damn it should have been us um i do think it's funny like that you bring up her her discussion with auto right because there are some ways in which they're similar but she she goes about her interactions with aegon so differently right like auto controlled allison he could control allison on like how allison can't control again and kind of made her a part of his plans to an extent almost as an equal as they got older and him telling her like i don't

want to hear it was almost like it i want to i want to still think good of you right as opposed to her she's like i don't want to hear it again i'm tired of your shit so like the way that that gets expressed so differently is interesting and yeah you know i i do like that she tells larry's and voices that grief has changed her that's another thing you know there's a lot going on for her she's and i think that speaks for both her and rainera uh people who have been acting erratically lately yeah at least in the perception of the public yeah something that larry's brings up as well is that allison hasn't been at the small council lately but we have so we can tell you what happened i love this whole realization to agan that he has no control uh that they've been plotting beneath him just like allison had the sudden realization

in the green council and then amand reveals in valerian holding power as aegon in two ways right uh obviously controlled the council from a military perspective and also using that language mastery over him to make him feel small i love the reveal that they were doing the plan without him already and i also really love this bit where aiken if you notice his little war speaky council ball is i have the ball and i can speak in the council thing he is in many scenes this season spinning that ball and then it lands and they cut away or it doesn't land and they cut away they've been doing a lot of little shots with that and i love it because it's kind of like this every time it's done he's talking about war or going to war and it's pending kind of like the

targaryen coin flip right and finally then the decision to go to war. And then he does that in the council and it ends. And then later he is a cat and knocks the vase, the dragon, the golden dragon vase of wine that he finishes off his table after getting drunk again, like a cat just on the floor shatter. Uh, and he decides he's going to war. And that's when the ball slash coin has finally stopped. Not unlike Daemon in his anger slamming the vase on the ground in Dragonstone. But Aegon chooses to

take action. Yeah. Aegon, he loves to fidget with his hands and stuff but also like he's losing his marble. Thank you everyone. They only have one marble left he's got one marble

it's not even his marbles he and Amon have one marble between them rubbed together what are they the furies? the fates? not the furies sorry what are they so precious that that should not have been i don't know why that now feels cute um

wait what if avan did do that when he's at the council he like pops out his little eye and then that's what he puts in the thing uses that as a ball yeah what if he that's what he used in the councils that's what they should have done man missed opportunity thanks for listening to the podcast this is our insight my insight sorry oh there's a pun to be made there too

anyways um yeah absolutely regarding Aegon realizing that he's the Iron Throne is a glorified cage for him right and it's something that his father as we saw struggled with all of last season like how can I even use this to wield power it seems like everyone else around him has more freedom and power and we even see how Rhaenyra has to struggle with that too. The balance of like,

you must be kept safe, right? This is how chess works, right? You don't, the King can only make so many moves. And, you know, apparently he tries to fly across the board and things go bad,

but the council is also kind of like, it's a dwindling, right? As you pointed out, Alice is not there. Kristen Cole is gone. Otto is gone, just the minds that are in that room

are dwindling. Absolutely, and it's just like Rhaenyra's, right, starting to dwindle as well of the good minds. The steady minds. Yeah, that's true. There were only two good minds in there, but the rest were bodies.

I'm ready for Tyla and Lannister to unleash like not the d um i don't know keep the d mine he gets really interesting i feel like uh the one nice thing about the guidance of that council is how fast it's going to deteriorate and how fast actions are going to start happening and all the panic that's going to ensue. Rereading up to Rhaenyra Triumphant is really exciting. Highly recommend everyone does it because you're like, oh shit, oh shit. And then you get to Rhaenyra Triumphant and you're like, oh shit.

Wait, which council? Because both of them could absolutely react this way. The Green Council, honestly. The Black Council gets more interesting later when betrayal happens in my opinion which it's coming we're gonna talk about that don't worry first let's talk about let's talk about sunfire beautiful oh my god gorgeous gorgeous gorgeous gorgeous gorgeous sunfire oh i know beautiful i really like the scene with Sunfire. I'm glad that we got Sunfire. I was pretty devastated when Sunfire got fucking ripped into

as well. Dude, it was horrible! I was like, oh my god! It was terrible! And then Sunfire's just bleeding out on everyone, like, oh my gosh. It was incredible, though. A boy and his dog. Like, it was horrible. That's what that scene was, though. It was very sweet.

It was very sweet when he was snuggling the snoop boot. I was very taken, especially because I knew that he was about to become a grilled cheese sandwich. Yeah. And then they heal each other, kind of. Their souls. A boy and his dog. Yeah. And then they die.

Larry Strong is playing both Agen andent like fiddles okay like so easy we know that he loves to stay in power he's playing double agent sowing discord to all factions as he goes and rides his chaos train but i also kind of hope we get more from him season one there was a cut scene i hear matth Matthew Needham's talked about filming it where Larry's gets a little bit of background on why he hates his family so much, why he's causing all this mischief, etc, etc. Now that we get Harrenhal into the picture and we're learning about him and getting his money and taxes out of it and etc. Curious to see kind of where this leads for him, knowing how far he makes it until the Hour of the Wolf. Like, what is his real endgame? Littlefinger's endgame was very stupid, right?

He was like, crown Shanja and make out with her forever because she looks like her mom. Healthy. And I'm mad. Yeah, healthy. Healthy. So I'm like, what is Larry's, what's his I want song, right? Yeah. Obviously, the scene that I heard about in season one, there were a couple things I heard about a little bit about how, you know, he hated his brother for making him look weak and for looking weak in public, whether or purposeful and that's kind of why he burnt it all down then you have his ending right where he asks fine take my head but just you know take my foot as well so i can't have that follow me to the seven hells yes yeah i he has such an interesting ending and because you never really understand what his motivations were there in the end either in fire and blood and yeah i don't really know what's motivating him to to do all

this like because you gotta have some pretty pretty strong feelings pretty strong hate to be like yeah i think i will burn my father and my brother right especially because the rest of the portrayals that we got of the Strongs were, I mean, they were pretty strong, right? Everyone loves Harwin. And, you know, I love, I love wise advisor Skad. So, like, what? From Davos Fingers? From Davos Fingers? Skad?

Yeah, so, I just, I do wish we had gotten that scene and i wonder why they didn't and same i get it season one was tight we've talked about it what would you cut what would you cut i don't think i don't even think they would need to cut it right like some because we now live in an age and especially because it's hbo right it's not tv it's hbo they could like make episodes as long as they wanted they could have just thrown it in somewhere you know that's true like well we'll never know now uh things that i also don't know like is larry's just auditing the pharmacies or something right like he knows about allison and the moon tea but interestingly he's also the one right who tells allison about the moon tea that was given to reynera in the

first season and so i'm like what a double-edged sword that we see about knowing about Plan B. He was in the background in the courtyard of the send-off as well for Kristen Cole very briefly. So I'm very sure he's, and we know he pulled her aside and was like, I came to see you, but your handmaidens said you were not ready to see me indisposed. So he knows, like, he knows to see you, but your handmaidens said you were not ready to see me indisposed. So he knows, like, he knows she's fucking Kristen Cole. And I'm curious when he will use that

against her. That's like something that's like, exclamation point, when will this be used against Allison? And I definitely see like, the way he looked down at the tea, he absolutely obviously knew that was moon tea. Very curious how he's going to leverage this against her in court and against her children, etc. Yeah, and I loved this exchange between Larrys and Allison. I thought it was actually a pretty honest exchange between the two of them, right? We see Larrys actually being quite quite regarding allison actually regarding her in this moment when they discuss it because allison's like i i give no fucks anymore fuck you for whatever you're trying to do here i don't have the energy for this leave me alone but you know she's saying like reynier's supporters will believe what they

wish and so will agan something something. The significance of Viserys's intentions died with him and then Laery's acknowledging and going, yes, it did, but like in a very kind of like mournful way. So I thought this was a great way of exploring these themes of faith and belief in regards to where does power lie, where men believe it lies which is something that varies whose name rhymes with larry's says in both the song of ice and fire and and i i guess in game of thrones i actually literally don't remember game of thrones um but it's also this idea of faith and belief that starts to really get explored more when it comes to power in A Feast for Crows. I really love the concept of Alyson exploring her own faith a little bit in some ways too.

Not like completely, but you know, her visits to the set this season alone and then here maybe losing some of that faith is really interesting with how close the high towers are with the faith of the seven and how close she is as well. Yeah, that is really interesting. And like, therefore faith in, you know, herself, the whole cause, her life. What was it all for? Yeah, she's kind of going through it. She's literally going through it and going through that right now. Dang. Dang. yeah she's kind of going through it she's literally going through it and going through that right now dang dang um i another thing that i thought was interesting is larry's you know he's

just kind of fishing for for things at this moment right he says that you know kristen cole with all these victories like that would probably incite rainier's fury and it i honestly he's right it probably should it doesn't rainier does not know that that's happening she does not care everyone else though and her counsel's mad about it um but i just think it's interesting the way that larry's so fundamentally misunderstands both allison and rainier's feelings towards kristin in this episode and i'm just like just because you let someone hit it doesn't mean you like them doesn't mean you give them any thought at all it's really interesting that you're taking his actions and like his questions at face value

because to me i think he knows and he's just trying to see all right i mean the opposite though like i think like he knows they're on the outs like he's here to confirm they're on the outs and he gets the information from the moontee that they're on the out i see yeah i thought um i thought it might be you're right it does actually upon thinking about it again it does read as ham trying to just get that confirmation about that information you're right yeah i just think he's unfortunately too smart for it to be that simple yeah i don't know what he's gonna do with that information but for real i don't either i'm very interested again i really want some motivations yeah here and and more than just that but also an end game to

suddenly appear because what end of season three he has to die or sorry no maybe early season four beginning of four beginning of four probably but also it's like part of me wonders with the way that one of those lines was delivered of how everything's kind of like going to shit right he basically confides now he's like i don't know what's going on everything's going to shit in the in the small council um it almost feels as though does he actually care about the realm like some larger vision that he thinks is it should be following and the way that auto seems to also believe that in a very self-serving way more for Otto than for like I don't really know what do you think of the way that was delivered and it sort of

I mean listen this is a Joe magician question true truly this is a Joe magician question we should be maybe we'll have a chance to questioning him maybe it's in the cards maybe it's in the cards stay tuned stay tuned probably yeah actually talk to him a little i should probably follow up with him on his life there's a couple of other people whose lives we should follow up on such as the people on dragon stone yeah jacerys was in a big role of leadership in this episode very headstrong i loved seeing him ruling contrasted to agan right albeit jace is a little sloppy a little too headstrong right in his mother's stead without her being there he's working on course correcting i think and then there's agan who is uh not really allowed to rule and realizing he hasn't been trained and has no true power here.

Yeah, it is interesting. Like, I think Viserys does have a little power or he's fighting for it, right? Like, they have to respect him a little. And, you know, I think to Rhaenyra's credit, when she does return back to the council, his credit when she does return back to the council like she doesn't do to jacerys what viserys did to her during the small council like meetings when she was theoretically supposed to be there as the heir and like reynira and jace clashed just as viserys and reynira did but even though i think viserys was clearly struggling with parenthood as we bring up all all the time and how he only really kind of raised one child.

He did try to steward Rhaenyra and he held her in some respect, right? Like he does respect her and Rhaenyra isn't doing that to Jace, like not in a bad way. I'm saying she's like giving him space to come into his own. She doesn't downplay his suggestions. She responds to it very diplomatically

and like allows it to still hold weight and i think these are two like the two very different sides of viserys's parenting showcasing alicent and rainiera but yeah of course we see the awesome intercutting of the prophecy given to him finally i knew it would happen sooner or later yeah but he gets the prophecy and there's something interesting in the way that you know he wants he wants to try to be strong and we see it in a way that he comes back yeah at his brother's death right like when he comes back from the north with his brother's death he tries to give her the news say mom i did this i did this i did this and he bursts into tears and he just wants to be strong and wants to

you know be be a good heir in her eyes and living up to her and living up to being a targaryen prince and someday a targaryen king and you see him here and he's trying to be headstrong and fiercely tell her what they're going to do and she just cups his cheek and says let me tell you about the song of ice and fire my child yeah the look she gives him is so full of you know sadness for what she's putting him through uh sadness is only a parent can look at a child and give them but bittersweet like there's a sweetness to it too and a tenderness and i think it was really well acted and and i will say there's a big disrespect this season from amand calling allison allison and now jace that tone where he was like mother

where were you mother uh just saris i'm gonna need you to watch your tone i'd do that it was very funny very funny i do not call my mother by her first name i all the kids doing that like even when when uh rainiera calls her dad the series like which i guess that makes sense because she's explaining it as like the king thing but like all these people calling like who like all these people calling their parents by their first name is like wild to me like it's cute like you can do it in a way that like it's cute that this child is doing it in a precocious way but for them i'm like what is going on here but jace being like mother when he's upset i do that sometimes my mom i call her mom usually but if i'm upset i'll be like mother big mood um but also i i that's a great point of how this is coming off the heels of luke's death and it does provide good context for why rain nira has been acting the way she does and trying to

you know live through that prophecy whereas for luke you know he's he has experienced that loss whereas for jace like he has experienced the loss of luke like he's he's sees like that there is weight to the decisions that they make and why they have to be taking action in this war he doesn't want to lose more people all that pain is compounding for him too right yeah there's there's a lot i think on that he feels on his shoulders he he takes things very seriously i wonder if he is gonna get along with alan if they get to meet they both are serious older brothers and yeah i don't know i like the way that he showed that concern about rainiera being taken or slain, it makes me think of, this is going to be even more sad, Aegon III being like, mother, flee, right? Oh, that's devastating. Yeah, you're welcome. Thanks for that. You're welcome. But yeah, Jace is the one who urges Rhaenyra to send a dragon and to

act for Rook's rest, as Rhaenyra used to urge Viserys to take action and she, she heeds it. And I, you know, I think Jace is interestingly playing a bit of a role of Alison, right? Like saying that if his mother dies, all is lost, really showing what it means to like being like, this is what it means for you to be the ruler.

You're not just ruling. This is all built around you. And I think there's a really complex dynamic here that's set up between jason rainier i don't think like there's one thing you can really pin it down to and it's great for him to actually get some dimension and to see him ruling side by side with bella right because if the gods were good they would be the next set of rulers but the gods are never good they would have been so good. Yeah, I love that he was such a wifey guy, too.

He was like, thanks to Bela, we have this information, so you better be grateful to her. Because it turns out everyone on Rhaenyra's council kind of sucks outside of Rhaenys and the kids. Yeah, which is a big bummer, but yeah. They do suck. I do understand them. You know, you get that great contrast with Aegon. Unlike with Aegon, where everyone's like, just shut up and just be there. People are longing for Rhaenyar to be here in this small council chamber this whole season.

And they're like, where is she? Tell us what to do. Her council, unfortunately, does suck. Yeah, that's something that not necessarily something i forgot but something that on reread today that was a big emphasis just how many of these people are assholes really uh gorman massey gorman massey opened his mouth and he was really annoying right and and i think if i remember he gets burnt to death by vermithor so no no big loss there but he kind of spoke up and then of course alfred broom the betrayer alfred broom

all my homies hate alfred broom he also spoke up uh and i't really, didn't really like it. So I would like his annoying sexist ass to get out of here. Um, we'll see what happens there. You know, uh, no, really, we won't. We know what happens. He's gonna fucking betray her. Gonna betray her. Yeah. I don't know. It sucks. Like why bother being here if you didn't really believe in her? I don't know it sucks like why bother being here if you didn't really believe in her i don't know i'm curious if we'll get his death at uh the drawbridge of maegor's hold fast this is a little take i have i just think i think ryan condal was really proud that he got to insert a reference to the lysine orgy i think just being able to be like Lysene, like Lys mentioned, you know, Lysene orgy. And for me, I am reading too far into that.

I'm like, Lysene spring confirmed. It's the only thing I've ever wanted, Ryan. We're getting the Lysene spring. Gosh, don't tease me. It's all I've ever wanted, ever. Over in Driftmark, we're soft-launching the bastards for the plot. I was surprised, and it went more pleasantly than I expected, that Rainy's got to learn about the bastards right before she went off to die.

Yeah, she was like, dude, you gotta treat your kids better. What is going on here it gives a little reason for him to have like taken his time on this whole matter of how to um how to do drift mark and the whole air succession thing i'm still pretty partial to the idea of lena's children getting it because he really sought his wife's crown as a piece of glory, but then wouldn't follow to make happen why she didn't get the crown. Like, that really bugs me. Yeah. No, I agree. It's very hypocritical.

It's very interesting because now you can really see how that was fleshed out in the show because it is a little confusing how he counsels Rhaenyra on some of those things in the book but you see it now you see how we get there and yeah still unsure if Alan and Adam know I think Alan must know a little

I love the way that they've shaped their characters too like I do think that Alan feels very different in the books than how he is portrayed in the show especially in the later parts as oaken fist he just kind of feels more like not in a bad way smarmy just like more i don't know lively as oaken fist and maybe like he just hasn't had that chance to come into his own though and i will say my hot take is somber older brother alan and puppy dog younger brother adam mako and bolin from legend of korra

oh i love this take i very much love that wow yeah he's like considered kind of proud and headstrong and insolent i think is how he's described right and alan is kind of described as um alan is described as that but adam is kind of described like a younger puppy dog brother so that one feels pretty yeah that does feel in par adam is perfect alan is interesting alan is also probably perfect like it's just like in my in my head in my heart adam valerian has always been my like perfect child no one will change my mind doing such a great job so far and i will say after last week i do think they know does he know in episode three the meme does he know does he know i feel like in episode three it seems like there's a knowledge

of some sort that he owes them something so yeah feels like they know yeah i'm interested where they are gonna take alan's character and like what if like because he's getting a lot more screen time than adam which i understand it's because adam dies, but, like, are they, I mean, are they, like, what if we did get Oak and Fist, everyone? Are they trying to be, like, you guys, what if we did it? I mean, he has to marry Bela, probably, at the end of the dance. Yeah. Yeah, so I'm, like, curious what that dynamic would be like between them two. I wonder if there would even be a rivalry initially at first, right?

Yeah. even be a rivalry initially at first right because like obviously him having a penis threatens her claim apparently with the way that corley's goes about things well she's not gonna have time to think about it yeah because she won't have she's it would be her claim anyway she's gonna become queen yeah exactly see until she's not anyways yep yeah never mind yeah life comes at you fast the prussian during the dance of the dragons dance prussian the dance prussian okay this one's second to last today because it's i don't know it's the only contender for next best plot in the episode right because we know what the main yeah we know what the final entree the main course is but this was such a good holy shit course before it like this really heron hall was so fucking cool dude that was i don't know what else to tell you that was so

fucking it had me wow just wow factor even opening with the vision with damon at the throne just all the visions and alice rivers and did she give him weirwood paste we don't know jury is out i believe it makes me think she did yeah uh trippy and i really do want to discuss you know what are her intentions here um is she doing a little bit of shaping Damon to what the lowerborn folk want? Something akin, you know, Madame Sylvie, for example. Something akin to her with Amon, and then obviously how Alice will be with Amon will come back to play, of course. But there's something interesting about those reigns being taken by the lower-born folk, and also something interesting about how the visions are happening, right? We'll talk a little bit about his dreams he's getting,

but also eating the weirwood paste and having these visions and being in and out during council meetings and uh coming to after having ordered and requested and demanded things and not even remembering why you asked for them that seems alice interruption but the visions the visions seem like they're coming all from within him yes i mean like within him but because of the things that are around but also yes agreed within him and yeah i don't really know what her intentions are there's something there that like feels as though i guess she's still trying to suss out what he wants um and she knows he's gonna die there which she's not wrong as for the the potions thing going on here i like that they had her take on because you were talking about this like lower

you know the the the small folk thing going on and like that she takes on the mantle of maester when the previous one leaves right because it speaks to how she's been portrayed as a witch solely is is she a witch maybe but or is she just portrayed as one by fire and blood for having a non-zero amount of medical knowledge because they didn't want people having that sort of power right but also that she hands him a potion i I'm like, Alice in Wonderland? Oh! Yeah! Oh, wait! One tea makes you smaller. Random thought, because of the line that you were drawing there,

could we parse anything about maybe Alice Rivers from Grey Alice the George R.R. Martin short story in the Lost Lands in the Lost Lands I don't have much more to add to it than that at this moment but that's the prompt

patreon.com slash girls gone canon also that but like we didn't talk about alice rivers that much i think in that episode so anyways that's a thought i i'm throwing out there right now these visions that he gets are amazing guilt guilt and more guilt it's like damon can just be enclosed in a castle of his own guilty making for the next several episodes young raniera again and my god she looks so tiny in her overcoat and crown kind of showing us that burden that was placed on her from such a young age right yeah such a fucking heavy burden and then lena later serving him wine in uh the dress that she wore when she begged him to

return home lena whose dragon or once had dragon kills her own mother in this episode um guilt guilt guilt and more guilt yeah i just i i thought that the dress choice and the outfit choice was really interesting today yeah it i like that we're exploring this guilt aspect for damon um let's see what other characters we end up exploring that guilt with as well and love what you pointed out about the way that they dressed reneara in this and you said in his little castle i'm like in my own little castle with the big iron chair i can be whatever i want yeah so something that's interesting that that alice says is that he's sleeping on a weirwood bed which is you know how we end up with some of these like guilt dreams and it makes me think of your pre-season one of Hot Deethrad about Damon as Jamie Lannister.

I mean, I think a lot of people already thought like, oh, confirmation, we're with bed. And then the Jamie sleeping on the weirwood stump. Yeah. And therefore he ends up getting dreams. And like, as you pointed out, right, like a lot of these are about the guilt. With Jamie, it seems as though those dreams are about that too right it's about the past and the subconscious desires it's not showing anything new about the future but it is still like real these are still visions you know i love that idea of like how

we're getting these especially you and i have talked a little bit about shade of the evening and weirwood paste and kind of the difference in the things we see and this feels more shade of the evening ask in vision because it's kind of drawing on some of those ideas yeah and not exactly showing a historical event happening that you're seeing through a weirwood almost a perversion of the memories yeah yeah which Yeah, which is what happens with Jaime in the Riverlands. So fascinating, fascinating. Coming back to the scene with young Rhaenyra, there's that reversal of season one that they pointed out

was an intentional filming choice in the house that dragons built, where in season one, Daemon's the one on the throne speaking Valyrian to Rhaenyra as she enters. And so we have that reversed. And speaking of guilt I kind of wonder you know we've seen two of Damon's wives are we going to see Rhea Royce next because like listen if there's

any wife that Damon has wronged it was her not just that but then I could see her molding like them morphing her face into Alice Rivers very easily yeah I like that you know i don't know just just a thought just a thought i mean he wronged that woman for sure and yes literally

killed her so something i couldn't quite get uh and i'm guessing i'm thinking it might even be from the stepstones battle, is him hearing the swords as he walked through the halls in his first dream. I don't know which battle it was. Or maybe it was the battle at, not battle, but the tourney swords. Oh, interesting. I thought you were going to say the Gold Cloak's Night. Oh, maybe.

I don't know. Just the sound of swords. I didn't see anyone figure it out yet, and would love to know if anyone has figured out that audio draw. Yeah, it's Ryan Condal being like, it's not just a feast for crows, it's still also a storm of swords. Pick a book. That scene in the throne room also comes back to a lot of, I think, what you and I were discussing last season regarding Daemon and what his motivations are. Especially, like, because this is his interiority and therefore it's attacking his secret desires. And, like, yeah, we've been shown and everyone suspects, like, yeah, to some extent he wants power of the throne.

But most of all, what he wanted was his brother's love. And as we discussed last season, like, he saw Rhaenyra, especially young Rhaenyra, as an extension of that. And I love that these dreams are really revealing, like, that that was what he wanted. And he realizes, wait, she's not an extension of my brother's love. Is she a supplanting of it? And then, like, even her telling Daon to cut her down in season one episode two she's like i'm the object of your eye or like it's me cut me down and that's what happens in in this in this scene right and it even like mirrors the action of damon beheading vehement in a similar action in the throne room as well so there's a lot of things i love that callbacks to

to all of these things with Damon's character in the first season especially because I love the uh the fake out when it comes to the head rolling and the crown right the crown falling on the ground was shown in every trailer and this is how we finally get it um I love it I love it so much i'm very excited to see what new visions he gets because i think we've seen some of them in trailers and we don't realize them yet yeah oh magic's back magic's back on the menu and it's being shown in full and it's mysterious and it's freaky and it's amazing and i do have to bring up i think joe magician pointed this out that you can see in the episode uh there's a black goat which black philip of course but

it's also representative of vargo hope oh the song about some fire yeah and then there's also three dogs three hound dogs basically cuddled up that Damon walks by, and those are representative of Gregor Clegane. Not so awe, but House Clegane. I like that. Because they also end up holding Harrenhal. Yeah, it's a castle that's kind of, in a way, unmoored in time, right? Like all these symbols, they're inhabiting it a hundred years before them. Yes, yes.

Love that. all these symbols they're inhabiting it a hundred years before yes love that regarding that great audio and visual design in heron hall i love that it's being used especially like with young renera to convey that inability to understand here and see right it's depriving him of his senses as well as that slight parallel to amand where where Rhaenyra's in the throne room speaking Valyrian, right? Valyrian-heavy episode, probably the most Valyrian we've had in an episode. It's muffled, Daemon can't understand, and Amon using Valyrian and Aegon being unable to speak it back to him, even, kind of reminiscent of one another. And of course, which this felt a little interesting and by

interesting i was like questionable that simon strong was just in his room i'm like in the king consort's room you just be in there like just waking him up and shit really damon uh but he's awakened by simon strong telling him that due to the child, which, spoiler alert, was slaughtered thanks to Daemon, they've lost allies. More guilt. And then, of course, young Rhaenyra on the throne, where before she had come to the throne room, like you said, where he had been sitting on it in the beginning, the power dynamic changing. And I am really excited to how this contributes to Rhaenyra and Daemon's endgame and maybe Daemon eventually choosing out of all of this

guilt and hauntedness he's gotten at this castle to end Aemond like the Daemon nightmare oh my god the Daemon Aemond following him through the halls to see he is what he has made incredible

it'll be interesting to see he is what he has made. Yeah. Incredible. Yeah. It'll be interesting to see how that all plays out. And good point. Yeah. I thought it was interesting that anyone was in Damon's room, but I don't know. Simon Strong's a funny guy.

I'm like of all people. I don't know about all that. He just does not give any fucks. He's like, well, all right, this is what you want to do. This is how we're want to do this is how we're gonna do it yeah you can have the castle uh i don't know he's a down-to-earth

kind of guy i think maybe and it's like what the fuck is he's also like what the fuck is going on here what is what are you trying to do sir well he's gonna be down in the earth soon enough when amand gets his hands on him dude rip rip i mean there's there's more other like harrenhal stuff right like thankfully simon strong great secretary as well i guess sets up a couple of meetings for for damon gosh whether he remembers it or not right whether he remembers that's why he's such a good secretary i loved lord oscar i don't know it was just so exciting to get lord oscar tully and a return to the tully costuming we had tully scales on the outfit uh so just like the blackfish or admira's outfits in game of thrones

and of course another sick tully lord, Lord Grover. Yeah, yeah. Oscar was adorable. I love his earnestness. But he's like, yeah, my grandfather is still alive. And he smiles and he like fucking means it. He's happy about it. But also I'm like, this is Sesame Street character erasure. Like, give me the other fucking Sesame Street.

Like, give me the other Muppet. And they're not Sesame Street. Muppet. Give me the other Muppet. And they're not Sesame Street. Muppet, give me the other Muppet Tullys, you know? I was surprised that, you know what, I'm pleasantly surprised we got Oscar and Grover in one convo. That's true. Elmo and Kermit. I mean, Oscar and Grover are kind of the easy ways out, though. Yeah, I don't know. Give me Elmo and Kermit. I mean, maybe they were like, we already have a Kermit in the show with Damon's Kermit hood. Unsure.

Oh my god, they don't want to confuse people. It's like Osha and Anna. Oh my god. I loved getting to see Lord Willem Blackwood from season one, all grown up i thought that it's very clever to keep that focus on bracken and blackwood from season one to season two with the burning mill and now here i felt like had my parents re-watched the show maybe they would have remembered or understood they did not re-watch it therefore they did not do that but had they done it maybe i had to explain to the randos that i was with i was like yeah remember he kills a bracken there at storm's end what's interesting is damon

should be all about understanding killing someone to marry raniera that's true i just i i don't know why though that's something that i don't get behind damon of course knows the Blackwood and Bracken. I don't know. Yes, I did think of you when he still didn't understand the Riverlands lore about the Brackens and Blackwoods. Everyone knows it. And also that he catered to their bloodthirst so easily. That's true. I mean, that part makes sense.

Catering to their bloodthirst. Yeah. But I just am like, don't lie to me. Obviously, Damon knows difference. I mean, he doesn't in the just i'm like don't don't lie to me obviously damon knows difference i mean he doesn't in the show but i don't know uh bloody ben mentioned yes they're coming they're coming and maybe sabbath on next episode question mark okay riverland could be very cool give me riverlands give me lycini. Looking like Jace is going to the frays to negotiate passage for the north. So that could be great. That could be a fun scene.

Yeah. And I can very much, with all of this stuff in the Riverlands, I can see them abandoning this castle and Aemon taking it at season's end. An empty win, of course, while they take King's Landing. And Aemon having a huge fail on his record finally um failing his mommy oh no again technically the luke thing was a big fail too i see that and i do think you know people are like i don't understand what he's how is he planning on holding this castle like he's not everyone he's not, everyone, he's not. It's a ruse, just like with the crab feeder. Yep, it's a bait and switch.

He is going to put it out there, much like they lured Team Black in today. Damon will be setting the trap. Well, speaking of that lore and that big trap, Rook's Rust. Wow. Just wow. of that lore and that big trap rook's rust wow just wow i don't use this phrase lightly because it's a cringe ass phrase but that was truly an epic hour of television it was it it was epic it was absolutely just epic wow i think like prior to recording this you and i were like i don't know if we have enough to say about it.

Because it's just astounding. Let it speak for itself to an extent, but it was so good. Yeah, I mean, the tension on the edge of the seat. I mean, it's something that hasn't really been done, right? Seeing those dragons fight like that. Two on one. And my god, Rhaenys could have won. Yeah. If it stayed one on one and my god rainies could have won yeah if it was stayed one on one if it was only one of each of those dragons instead like not two i think she could have done it either of them

but uh that two on one just really got her ass i agree terrible i agree i mean she clearly already was like you know doing work on sunfire and agon. But I think even Fire and Blood says, like, maybe if it had just been Vhagar, Maelys could have done it. Yeah. And Vhagar was, oh my god, a beast. I mean, the stepping of that huge foot in the battlefield. That was insane. And just the squish of the human when Vhagar lifted her claw up

and, like, blood erupted after she slammed it down that was incredible and that shot of vegar coming out of the brush yes was just some of the most incredible cinematography we've seen it was on this show it was so good it almost like felt i mean obviously bigger than that but it felt jur Park-ish you know like the way that like this haunting thing just suddenly emerges and you're like oh fuck but agreed about the footstep and from the environment oh I just realized is the footstepping also like is that another callback to the stepstones to Damon yeah to Caraxes interesting yeah uh when that scene happened though that was, that's me in Elden Ring, dying, getting my ass whooped by the dragons. I do love killing the dragons and taking their hearts and eating them, though.

Anyways, that's a thing you can do in the game. Vhagar, throwing it out there like a shark, coming up from below every single time. That's Vhagar's move, you know? Yes, yes. that's that's vagar's move you know yes yes and you know speaking of damon the they have a very explicit scene right of um showing rainy strapping her armor onto the saddle right for you know more epic tricks in the air uh and i think it's a good touch to show how these dragon battles work and as like a foreshadowing for like yo it's fucking serious when daemon is later gonna unstrap and then jump on to vagar during the god's eye it also made me think of bella

at dragon stone when she goes down with moon dancer oh yeah wow sad yeah but it had a tone of finality right that she was planning to go out with Maelys. Yeah. And that they were going on this mission and that they weren't coming back. Devastating, right? Especially thinking, like, Maelys has already suffered the loss of one of their riders. Yeah. So when you think about Maelys suffering Alyssa's death.

That's true. And then now having to suffer a death of Rhaenys. And then even suffering two deaths. Even if Rhaenys could have gotten out of there, she's connected to this creature. She'd have to suffer that death and then her own. And I mean, that eye contact.

Oh man. It really was a great way of showing that bond between the rider and the dragon. Okay, I don't know why, that made me think of something random. I know Valyrian was very injured by the trip to likely Old Valyria, but people have been wondering, what is it that really kills a dragon? They don't really know, but you're talking about Maelys suffering. What if, this sounds so

dumb and cheesy, but maybe we are a little cheesy. What if dragons die of broken hearts? Like, that's what it is that kills them in the end. I'm gonna die of a broken heart just thinking about that. I mean, think of that. Like, being connected, I just think of my animals. And quite frankly, I could probably cry on command thinking that they won't be with me forever just because like I'm so emotionally connected to them so imagine being

magically connected and linked your brain your being we see so much of you look back at Lena and Vhagar which wins in this episode for me you look back at raniera and syrax and some of their kind of different moments in their relationship throughout the show and their pain their loss uh it's very sad it's terrible i would i couldn't even imagine like oh yeah losing my dragon as a dragon rider and that's who rainies was she as a dragon rider. And that's who Rhaenys was. She was a dragon rider. She was. That was established from the beginning.

And her mother was a dragon. She loved it. Not her mother, sorry. Maelys' previous rider. I mean, Maelys is a dragon for the people who love the art of the craft, you know? Exactly. Exactly. It said how fast Maelys was and um when maelys was younger obviously now

maelys is older and was in retirement before this war but yeah i don't even know if that's like maelys was prime you know like as you said could have taken vagar because vagar is big and strong but slower maelys has i think maelys could go toe-to-toe with like paraxes or something you know is what i'm saying as well yeah because vagar is like your tank yeah you do major damage with your tank yeah you put your tank out front do major damage with it and it can take a lot of damage to it has a ton of hp but mayweez is able to get in and out and evade and strong swift accurate yeah evasion yeah these are good survival skills for dragons absolutely uh it is you know speaking also like of all these dragons and alissa and belerion um interestingly

alissa actually wanted to claim belalyrian, but was convinced otherwise by the dragon keepers. They're like, don't you want something faster and cooler? And now it sounds like a car. Anyways, I don't know, it makes me think of Valyrian as kind of like the Blackfire sword, right? That symbol of legitimacy. And it makes me think of

that time that Aenys told Rhaena, I don't think you should bring your dragon on the royal tour. I don't think dreamfire should come and it kind of makes me think that did they just not want Alyssa to have Balerion because it felt too legitimate?

You know, like you can intimate the fact that Aegon was not yet a dragon rider at that time. Rhaena should have fucking brought the dragon. Because it shows up the male claimants and heirs if a woman has yeah that's a great question now that you say that yeah well and that's something that we were talking about last week right like with the dragon egg happening like who gets a dragon egg and where and obviously maybe the tradition wasn't quite ready yet but weird that daenerys didn't have a dragon egg in her cradle or you

know that some of these traditions moved. It makes you curious about what was given and done in order to keep the line moving. And especially with Balerion, though, I also wonder if people weren't afraid of what had happened with Arya. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, because maybe they're like i don't know that dragon's got to recover please do not fly it right now yeah or that they just don't trust that it won't happen again oh good point good point and visceros not being big on riding his dragon in his later years you know? Interesting.

Yeah, he never got to. Yeah, because Balerion had a broken heart. All right. We've been in the air. It was terrible. It was depressing. Absolutely, we'll come back to the air very soon. But first, let's visit the ground with Gwaine and Kristen,

who I definitely think gwayne can see something is driving kristin's anger and i think he was even a little taken back at the psychosis and the kind of we must win or we die going on with kristin and all of it i thought that was great and i liked how they like held back the army and reserve right and they sent out the other arms first yeah the betrayer houses that are being given the second chance that is interesting i didn't even like really give that much thought but yeah i mean honestly kristen's got some smart military thinking alright I hate to give him things but he does

and like I was actually pretty impressed with his you know his swift pivot with the speech that he gave when he's like wait this was not going according to Keikaku Egan is not supposed to be here and I was actually pretty impressed with that

yeah it was a quick turnaround I like that you pointed out how he's and I was actually pretty impressed with that yeah it was a quick turnaround yeah I like that you pointed out how he's he's kind of being a little crazy with all of these aggression of what they're gonna do here at Rook's Rest and then how that how that juxtaposes with Kristen

towards the end of this episode because I think you really see a change in him a little as he realizes like this is what it means to be a kingmaker everyone's calling him kingmaker now you're getting the name and it's not all of this it's more than that time you got jilted it's more than like your honor and having had sex like this is people's lives and he's like oh my god what have I done? A little. Right. Like the boy he protected also. Agen. I mean, Agen was, he had to protect him from a child on. He taught him how to fight. That's true. And he realizes as his king is crashed to the ground, oh fuck, what have we done? And it's actually, I like that you

pointed it out because that's something that I was like, what the fuck are you doing in the first season? He's like, let's let these kids get beat up. He kept being like, egging them on. Did not mean that one, but egging them on. Let me have fun. No, no, no, you do. I'm so happy that I didn't mean that one and it happened. That was actually joy.

But yeah, like, he's not good at protecting the kids in general. No. He's not good at his actual job, which is protecting any of the monarchs or the heirs. Which is fascinating. Thankfully, some of them are like

they can protect themselves aka amen just just one just one uh i will say i was excited to get house darklin because they're not there during the the main series right like they did move some stuff around the time wise timeline wise a little i think um also i don't know i like how starklin they're fun they historically seem to be like a little better maybe about women's rights based solely on the existence of jonkel dark and like that they were they were like in it for team black from the beginning and lord commander stephan darklin fleeing to rainiera in the books and um honestly i gotta hand it to fabian in his acting this episode. Honestly, I hand it to everyone's acting every single

episode. It's not fucking special to give it to him. I'm sorry. Everyone's great every episode. But I just love his stupid silly little motion as he moves back to do the beheading. Like, what a weird, silly motion. It did not look very cool at all, and I know that's the point.

Well, coming back to the Darklands, right, especially before, um, obviously obviously duskendale where duskendale clears out a lot of the houses over here but darklands kind of always on the king's guard like they've given so many of their members to the king's guard it would be like a northern house with the wall right like the darklands see it as a great honor and a great pride so it was a double diss it was a double jamie lannister oh my god he had to do him you know because it straight up was like it should have been said to jamie lannister in the actual show that happened a long time ago in the old days the game of thrones show like they could

have taken some notes from this one, that's all. Yeah. And I will say, Fabian was excellent, actually. I mean, he made me feel very, very sad for him in this episode. Yeah. Everyone's got such range. I'm so proud of everyone. Yeah, absolutely. I'm so proud of

all the actors. But anyway, glad we got House Darkling, other great actors. I anyway glad we got a house darklin other great actors i mean we've already talked about them a little but let's come back to them amand and agan wow holy shit that amand just did the damn thing that he just was like oops all berries all berries but it makes total sense like i get it of course he wanted to light his brother's ass up fuck that guy and now he needs to go impregnate his girl oh sorry i think you know there's a little plausible deniability there he's like i don't know i'll just take the chance but also you know he's like agan might survive it i think like we're seeing that they are a little... They're not fireproof, right?

Looking at Laena. They're fire-resistant. Exactly! He's like, I don't know, maybe he can take it. I will say that, first of all, I think the biggest distinction between Daemon and Aemond is Daemon would have never blown dragonfire adversaries never that's like a core character difference like for all the ways that like they do mirror each other core character difference is how they feel about their brothers

and the throne yeah it's funny because it's almost flipped right like aegon would never see this betrayal coming from amon yeah and viscerys would absolutely see a betrayal coming from damon and damon would be like what what why why i just want to love you but like in the most toxic way um in the worst way. Literally. I will say that not having Maelor here actually kind of complicates the dynamics of, I mean, the politics and the succession.

Because it means that if Aegon dies, there's literally another succession crisis within their house. Like, having both Jaehaerys and Maelor there, like, solves this problem plot-wise. But if Aegon dies, then it becomes a question of their house like having both jaharis and mailer there like solves this problem plot wise but but if agan dies then it becomes a question of who is heir because if it's jahara then like why did we bother fighting this war anyways everyone like all the pretense is gone regarding the male heirs it

was just regarding whether it's the high towers or whether it's the targaryens and obviously one of those claims has a little more legitimacy if it's just down to that, in terms of, you know, the bloodlines being, like, echoed 20-ass times within her. But if the heir is Daemon, if the heir is Aemond, then does that mean that succession passes through the brother? That would mean then the heir should be Daemon and not amand nor rain darren right no because amand amand would come before darren so if it's going to the brother right but i mean after amand i'm saying no no i'm saying it wouldn't be amand after it shouldn't be amand after right because if we're talking about the succession from following viserys's death if it's going to go only to the male claimants right if it means that it would

have been Aegon and then Aemond, then there's an argument to have been made that actually it should have been Daemon. Yeah, I suppose. If we're going to the brother and not going down the line. It seems that Team Green decided to honor that part of Viserys' wants of it not passing to Daemon. I guess, you know i guess you know very convenient very convenient for them and then like it also turns out they hate damon this is true and there are many good reasons apparently to do so but um yeah i don't know and like otherwise we're just establishing a different sort of succession entirely which is like ends up becoming the outcome of the dance but that isn't established yet as we discussed

in season one right like there are many cases where there was it was going to be a female claimant mm-hmm absolutely and most of them die yeah because I don't know

like they go on a joyride as a child to old Valyria. Feminism is dead. I don't know. I just think that not having Maelor there really kind of makes it a little flimsy. But anyway. Is that what George was talking about in his blog post? Yeah, and it seems like he's not out of the picture

maybe it seems he's not yet out of the picture too so from what interviews have said Condal is still exploring how to implant that fetus into the story it does make me wonder like are we

gonna get a small time jump again at some point? We might have to. Yeah, we really might. Especially with Aegon and the way things are going. kind of out of the picture and i don't know that we're going to return to him as being i mean i don't think he's gonna have as much power as he even had before which was not a lot right fuck yeah brought up there's something interesting in the norm that like he was brought up with the knowledge there's a chance he could be king. Probably not, obviously, with Rhaenyra. But, you know, a Targaryen son of a Targaryen king grows up with the thought, there is a chance that I could be king. And being told he's king may have disappointed him at first, but this is just a thing he has to do sometimes is how he sees it, right? Yeah. Like, he has never had to commit to it.

This is the first time he's ever tried to commit to it. And now it's being taken away from him. Yeah. I mean, everyone was trying to take it from him before, and they were like, guess what? You're just a figurehead. And now he... Maybe he really will be a figurehead in truth. And I had a really dark thought of just Alicent going and sitting and telling him, like,

while he can't really do much of anything or say anything back and respond like how much she hates him wow that was sad wow like Catelyn but and to like opposite like with Bran or does it yeah or well

or does it go the other way like now that Aegon is powerless does she you know warm up to him or like warm up to his position i don't know could be interesting it's really offensive of you to say warm up like that oh i didn't even mean that fuck i i don't even think it was i don't even think it was really like the fire i mean obviously that did a number on him i think the fall did a lot of it to be real i think the fall and probably the valyrian steel armor did a good bit of protecting and hurting yeah double-edged swords you know yeah double-edged

valyrian swords even whoa all right last couple miscellaneous thoughts on Rook's Rest. They, I like that they showed the felling of trees. This is so silly, but, like, I really loved that they showed how the sausage is made. Like, you can't have a huge battle without cutting down a bunch of wood. These are the details that make some of this stuff come alive, and there were tons of environmental effects of the dragons around. The smoking blood that was included, that the dragons, when injured, their blood smoked, just like the books.

Actually, though, literally like the books, like, I see you, Daznex Pit. I see you. Andaznax Pit. I see you. And, yeah, I like- Exactly. I like the research that went into it, right? Apparently, Alan Taylor, who directed the episode, like, researched how birds of prey specifically fight

because George is insistent that the dragons feel more inspired by birds in that version of flight. And I just, I thought that was awesome just like great great attention to detail with with these kinds of things in the episode i didn't really think about the felling of trees i love that yeah i don't know it just really made my day because it all has to come from somewhere yeah what does a war camp actually do right i feel like in game of thrones the war camps were more background than foreground. So we got a little foreground in the camp on the ground, too. I like that.

I found that really fascinating. That's a good point. Nice. Honestly, there's probably, like, so much more to say, but it's got to marinate. Yeah. Incredible episode. That's all I can say. I would really watch it one more time, at least.

I enjoyed it. I enjoyed it a lot. A lot. And I think it'll only get crazier from here yeah so so big big fun big fun that's all i got battle battle yeah actually our first battle so true huh they really saved it for this curious to see what next episode's title will be yeah and more battles to be fought this season it sounds like indeed well thanks everyone for tuning in if you want more episodes from us you can find us you know in most places where podcasts are yeah and don't forget to check us out at

patreon.com slash girls gone canon where you can get bonus content on the dance of the dragons and more and more as always i have been one of your hosts chloe and i have been another one of your hosts eliana we'll return next week for episode five of season two goodbye goodbye