Girls Gone Canon Cast - House of the Dragon: Unleash the D S2E5 ft JoeMagician

Episode Date: September 13, 2024

  Doctor Professor Joseph Magician joins us to talk about Magic in HOTD. Tune in for the SEASON FINALE of Unleash the D. The critically acclaimed, yadda yadda, yadda 🧙Subscribe to JoeMagician: http://bit.ly/2EBHniX ⚗️JoeMagician Patreon: https://bit.ly/2HQ6cVd 👕JoeMagician Threadless Shop: https://joemagician.threadless.com/ 🎧JoeMagician Podcast Feed: https://apple.co/2XQ8kH5 🐦Twitter: / thejoemagician

Hello and welcome to Girls Gone Cannon presents Unleashed the D season finale season 2 episode 5 featuring Joe Magician. I am one of your hosts Chloe. She's the only one of your hosts this episode. Thank you for having me on as a special guest for Unleashed the D. I'm really excited to be invited back onto the podcast. I'm Eliana, here representing Maester Monthly podcast. Oh my god. But I'm not the only guest today, so excited. Hello and welcome to Maester Monthly. I'm sorry.

Oh my god. Wow. This is now a Maasturb Monthly episode. You will have to play the role of Michael, Chloe. I hope you can start again to that mind space. I kind of feel like me and him are really chill dudes and that we're already pretty similar. So I feel like it could work out.

There you go. Well, I was thinking about the pasta I was going to make tomorrow. Wow, that was the best Michael impression of everybody. Yeah, I don't know. I trailed off there, my dudes. What's up? See best Michael impression of it. Yeah I don't know I trailed off there my dudes what's up. See I could do it. Thank you.

Thank you. I hope he hears this. We'll send it to him. Force him to listen to it. Let's drive him down to a chair. Why did you skin change Chloe Michael? Cause he's a green seer. You're getting a hodored right now.

So well, very, so weird. Well, very, very excited that you could join us, Dr. Magician. For those of you that don't know him, you should! He's all over the internet. You might know him from the YouTubes. Actually, you put out a shit ton of new content recently. I was listening to your new Alice Rivers stuff recently. That's very fun.

So head over there. We'll be linking you below, but welcome. Tell us a little bit about what you're up to now that the season has finally ended and you're getting a little sanity back, maybe? My sanity has slowly returned. Kind of like the water breaking through a dam. It's like I'm

slowly refilling in a way the season is very hard just trying to turn around content all the time but yes I made a lot of stuff about Alice Rivers a lot about Laris which turns out it's wrong or at least Matthew Needham thinks is ridiculous which is actually kind of funny he's just trying to throw us off that's right that's what my fans said. They were like, this is exactly what he would say. He knows he can't reveal. I'm like-

You have to have someone to enable you. I'm like, I don't know guys. He called it outrageous. I've still got stuff. I've got a big list of videos I'm making. I just sort of needed to decompress. One of them will be an update on Alice Rivers because we got a ton of new information about her,

which we'll probably talk about. Stuff about Daemon, stuff about actually pretty much everything in this doc. You just basically called my list. Although the first one I'm making is going to be where in the world is Otto Hightower. Just a fun like sort of non-magic key one. Just going to go through the options and say where I think he is. Good. That's a good way to open, honestly. So we'll get to that in just a minute. We're really excited to have you on, really excited to see what's to come maybe outside of Hot D, not just Hot D content,

and what you'll be making content on. And hey, we've got that new show next year in 2025 coming out, right? Night of the Seven Kingdoms. So can we expect anything from you on that? There will be, did you know there's only one video on my channel about Dunkin the Tall? It's time.

Unbelievable. It's fucking time. That's like unfathomable. It's time. There are so many videos there. We need to increase that percentage. 2025's the year. They're going way up.

Buy the stocks low on the Dunkin the Tall generation channel. Buy them today. Invest now, folks. I had that realization during this season where I was like, this stuff I love talking about, this all lives in like random live streams. I don't have content on it. Why don't I have videos about it? So I'm just going to, I'm going to actually do that.

Like fill out the channel with stuff I enjoy talking about, not just Laris rat theories over and over and over again. I thought you'd love talking about, not just Laris rat theories over and over and over again. I thought you'd love talking about that. I do, but I don't want to get pigeonholed. Oh, you want to get rat holed, I see. Yeah, I need to get into the rat hole to become the rat king. God, I can't believe he called it outrageous.

That's so funny. I mean, did he say it like outrageous or did he say it like that's outrageous? So he crossed his arms and he said, the interviewer asked him, what's the most ridiculous or ridiculous thing you've heard about your character? And he very unhappily said, some people think I'm like the rat king or something, or I control the rats or I am the rats. And he said it's outrageous.

Like one of the rats, yes. I don't think it was like unhappily. I think it was just like a little perplex. I think Bor- I think he gets asked about it a lot. Really? And he's just like, I get the feeling that a lot of people have probably asked him about it and he's just kind of like, I want to talk about other parts of my character other than this fan theory, which I totally get. Like that one's really popular. People have heard about it way outside my youtube channel So I assume with his character and how not famous it is in the wider world That's probably people ask him about I feel like that's better than being asked about the foot fetish thing

Yeah, I'd rather be asked about that. Yeah, that's true. You are a little biased. You do love a little rat Yeah, squeak squeak. Anyway, Matthew if you listen to this one, I am sorry. I hope people ask you better questions. For real. Well, we won't have any questions about what's going to happen in the story here because we are a spoilers all podcast. If you don't want information on how the story is going to end, like anything from Fire and Blood and what's going to happen in the dance in terms gonna end, like anything from Fire and Blood and what's

gonna happen in the dance in terms of broad strokes or anything from A Song of Ice and Fire, World of Ice and Fire, all those things. We're gonna spoil everything. All of the world of Westeros, George's books, and the TV shows, the aired episodes of the TV show, and those to come, episodes that ever were, all that shit. And of course you can find more of our content not just on Targaryens and Dragons over at our Patreon, patreon.com slash girls gone canon. Keep up with us. This is the season finale of Unleash the D, the hit post- post-season series? Now it's post-season? Oh my god, no one knows post-season series that critics are claiming was an adventurous foray once more into the worlds of Westeros.

Thank you, critics. Thank you so much. And a big thank you to our special guest co-host throughout the entire season, Eliana, who's been by my side as a special guest co-host. Hopefully next year you can return as a co-host, drop the special guest. I really appreciate every episode that you came out and recorded for me. That's really meaningful to me on this podcast that you're also on. Me too, Me too. It was an honor to be here for this journey with you, but I don't know like next year we're not going to call it Unleash the D, right? Like, and by we, I mean you on your podcast. It sounds like you got her, Chloe. She just used we. But like what, we can brainstorm a little later, but like what could it be called? Who knows? Who knows? Who knows? Yeah, with the Night of the Seven Kingdoms.

A special thank you to all of the guests that came on this season, like our friend Chica, our friend Glytus, our friend Hannah from Game of Owns, and of course, Megan, who was with us last week to talk costuming, and you, Dr. Professor Magician, who are joining us today. Oh, such a illustrious list. Along with Eliana, the recurring guest, of course. Yeah, exactly.

I'm just saying, it sounds like she's negotiating for a better contract She got her raises already anyways Yeah, we're gonna jump into some fun some fun shit today We're gonna let you talk about your bees in the trap or your auto in the trap or however Theorizing we're gonna go here. But first yeah, we're gonna talk magic, right? So to give you guys the rundown, we're gonna talk everything Joe Magician coded in the story. We're gonna talk about Harrenhal and things that come with that. Dragon Dreams, theWeirwood.net,

Dragon Riding, Dragon Bonding, and even some prophecy. So buckle up. Why don't you lead us off, Joe Magician? So buckle up. Why don't you lead us off? Joe magician. Oh So yeah They I think riding condo watches my youtube channel or somebody on the writing team because pretty much everything I wanted to see or like guessed about came true this season particularly around Heron Hall If you read fire and blood and you also read the parts If you read Fire and Blood and you also read the parts with Aria and even Game of Thrones, there's not a lot of like mystic and magic around it. There are mystical and magical characters there. Like Alice Rivers is obviously called the Witch Queen in Fire and Blood, but it's kind of

implied that she's the magical one, not the building itself. That there's not really the same sense and I made a video at the end of last season talking about like what's the truth behind Harrenhal like what are these curses really about? Shout out to Emmett your other illustrious co-host. Roommate. We got into an argument about this. What's the roommate? The roommate I'm sorry I got the nomenclature wrong. My apologies. Associate work colleague. We got into an argument a few years back on Twitter talking about this where it was like, is it actually, you know, cursed or like, is there magic involved or is it somewhere

else? And Emmett came down on the idea that it was literally magic. That it was like real magical curses like Harry Potter like sort of stuff And I was like no no no it's the weirwoods like the weirwoods are messing with people's minds everything that goes on there can be explained using like Weirwood weird children of the forest magic kind of stuff like that and then that just became text this season where we learned that Harrenhal is infested by ghosts, but the ghosts are chopped down Weirwood trees and Alice is messing with everybody's mind and she's giving out hallucinogenic drinks and Damon's seeing shit. He's effing his mom. He's seeing himself as an Aiman cosplay. The

green men are just kind of walking around or hallucinations. Still not quite sure on that one. Everything about it was great. And I think one thing that is definitely something that Ryan Condal has talked about when he was making the show is that he loves fantasy and he loves magic. And that's one thing that was definitely toned down by Dan and Dave in Game of Thrones.

They cut a lot of the fantasy and magic and Condal essentially said, well, why don't I take some where it makes sense? I'm going to shove all that shit back in. Like everything is going back in in this one in this one sequence with Damon and Heron Hall. Like you get elements of like Bran and the Nightfall. You get elements of Danny's house, the undying visions.

You get Bran with the Weirwood paste, a thing that did not happen in the show. Like all this stuff is sort of being condensed into this one plot line and I I personally really enjoyed it although I think from the reaction from fans out there you can sort of see what Dan and Dave may have been at least half right and what they did because this stuff got a lot of people hated and it confused them greatly. It's like skill issue. Yeah it is a skill issue. I'm like wow I just heard Joe Magicians say that Dan and Dave deserve sympathy that they got Game of Thrones right. I heard the words got Game of Thrones right. I heard those words. Interesting interesting. We'll let the audience interesting hmm we'll let the audience decide

we'll let the audience decide but I think they probably had a point that the broader TV audiences don't really understand or track that stuff and it's like mm-hmm I hate that they cut it but it also makes sense and condol basically said like, I'm gonna go ahead and undo that decision, too, much to my delight. I know that there's a whole idea of looking at it as a whole and how others may react to it. The others? But not to be selfish, but it's like my show

and it's not for them then. And I don't care, it's a skill issue as Eliana relayed there. What's great is they're bringing in all of that magic that was cut and they're also building it, using those elements that already exist in the book to exist in that magic building and lore building going on. And they really fucking committed. The green men, that was insane to see his little fucking antlered head bobbing around like you just came over from the island next door, bro You're just here. You're just

Trotting around the weirwood tree after it was fed. But that was something I witnessed in my lifetime Can you believe it on TV? I cannot I cannot believe that a green man actually showed up because they literally do not show up even in the books No, nobody's seen one yet. The closest is how Lynn Reed who is definitely not a green man actually showed up because they literally do not show up even in the books. Nobody's seen one. Yet. The closest is Howlin Reed, who is definitely not a green man. Yeah, I think they just haven't shown up. I mean, they could still show up, you know?

It could still happen. Oh yeah. It's just books. So we're just waiting. Wow. We're just waiting for them. What did you guys make of the, I posted this on my channel.

There's a behind the scenes prosthetics of what the green man actually looks like and it's not... So there's two versions of the green men. The one is from Old Nan, which is basically like they're sort of like children of the forest. You can kind of read them that way. Sort of like mythical beings that have been there for forever. And then the other version the Maesters give us is that they're basically just old god hermits or priests, more or less. And they just kind of dress up that way. They just wear rags, they just wear antlers. But the prosthetics from the behind the scenes is like almost something closer to a white walker, like a green white walker or like a dry add or something like that. And that was especially because you couldn't even see it

in the way they did the shot. It's so dark, it's far away, but clearly with the behind the scenes stuff, there was a directive to make this look almost like a green white walker, which is kind of a crazy inclusion by Condal, I'd say. Yeah, it makes them, I mean, they're the keepers of the island, right?

The Isle of Faces, where there are secrets and where all those weirwoods still are and everything they know. And it's very much like Freemasony, finding that they're kind of just like empty almost and they're like very viscerally nature connected. And also the stature of that one, that was so interesting to me

because he was definitely short. So it made me think connection to the children still also Are we gonna get more because why would you just do that Brian Condole? Why would you make them include a green man like you could have cut that that's money right there like it's exciting and it's fun But why are you committing to the bit does it mean when Adam Velaryon goes to the Isle of Faces, we're going to see them in full and learn more? And will that mirror stuff maybe from T-Wow that he knows about or a dream of spring? I don't know. I'm thinking big.

I'm thinking crazy here. Telling you. Thank you. Thank you, Matt. It's like, yeah, that's how you should think. Damn right. He's going to show us more, right? Yeah, exactly.

Right? There's no reason It's a guy in the background you bet he's he's on screen for two seconds You do not need to commit to this This is huge of all things to hang on to in your reduced episode count like I'm just saying that means something to him and maybe it's just respecting the sanctity of the text or the lore of the magic and giving the nod to the fans. But it's just every time he's done fan service, like doing visions at Heron Hall, it turned into a bigger plot with a bunch of plot points, reinforcing some of the other big shit

he's also done and like connecting it, like the prophecy, whether you like it or hate it, like it's in the show and it's connected to every pot in a very central way but also not really in an overbearing way and in an interesting way because spoiler alert there's a prophecy that's like that in the books too. What? Craziness wait a couple of them. I heard they invented all of it Chloe I heard this this is just showrunners run amok they didn't they made up everything you're telling me it's in the books too? They made books?

It's fucking all over. They made books in the show? They made books? Well afterwards they based them on the on Game of Thrones. So also do you think the green man was real because they did a shot reverse shot and he was gone so was he really there or was Damon seeing him? Damon can't even imagine what his nephew looks like. So I feel like he had to have seen this guy. Like his imagination only goes so far.

Yeah, he can't imagine politics or complex dimensions between houses. I don't know, he didn't recognize his mom when he was stoning her. Seems like they're implanting things in his brain. Yeah. Well, but I mean, he only knew like her womb and shit. Yeah, that's true.

Oh no, he recognized her then? Oh no, Chloe. He knows those things. I'm sorry! I'm so sorry. About her eyes. Oh god. Well, the eyes were wrong.

How could he know those? Oh, of course. But that is the thing, like, the eyes were wrong. How could he know this? Oh, of course. But that is the thing. The Green Seers can implant things in their mind. And Damon... I mean, if you read it as a green man is literally there, that's really cool. But it's also interesting if you go the other way, if this was something that Damon saw,

because every other vision he's gotten so far has been extremely Damon coded. It's stuff for him, stuff from his past. Like it's meant to manipulate him. Showing him something that he doesn't understand, showing him something that has nothing to do with him is a really, maybe it's like important of what they're about to do. Like he's about to be shown a whole lot of crazy stuff,

but it's like changing the relationship of the visions he's getting. They're showing him things that are no longer just for you, kind of. Because he doesn't know what a green man is. He barely knows the Riverlands. He spends the entire season going like, where am I? Who are you people? Why do I give a shit about this? What's going on here? So he does not know what a green man is. It's weird to show him one. He gets dreams like I get anxiety riddled. Eliana knows they're crazy, but they always mean like they're connected to a subconscious in some way.

He's making them too. It's just they're like clay being formed by Alice. I do think that guy was like there though. And he was just like, whoo, whoo, whoo. I mean, maybe not Mr. I mean, he lives next door. He lives like going along, going along his day making a little travel You know, like he's on vacation. He was doing tree maintenance man. Maybe you know, they gotta go

He's like the local every night someone goes and checks or maybe like someone told him they were like yo this guy's like Wigging out you gotta come over you gotta go see him he's like wow that guy's like really going through it that's so funny like alice dropped it in the group chat for the re-reads yo i'm about to introduce damon you gotta see this shit i've been dosing this guy for weeks i do think the proximity of location of the green men is like because they live right there, it is they can go over there, but also like to the point of like obviously there's blood magic and the Weirwoods have so much magic, but they do need a little gasoline once in a while, right?

They need a little blood. So maybe he's checking on the enchantments post-blooding, you know? I mean, someone was just fucking murdered there and weirwoods drink that shit up. They love blood. Ooh, do they ever. Do you think Damon was given maester to eat? Was he given the full Jojen paste treatment?

He was given weirwood seeds. Crust up. What are you talking about? What could that mean? Are there weirwood seeds or is it always humans? Yes. I mean, she could have just scooped it off the ground, you know?

She could have scooped the maester after she killed his ass. Oh my god. Yeah, I think there's definitely some blood, but probably also some weirwood seeds. I think it's a little bit of both. Interesting. Yeah. Marrying them. Or that green man has a job, as you said.

He's the gardener. Like, that's where he has to go for his round. It actually is a thing where the children like say that sometimes they like put on cloaks and they walk among the people for like years at a time because they lived for so long. So if he is like, if this is a different kind of a children force, because clearly this design looks nothing like the ones we've seen north of the wall from Game of Thrones. This is a very- Their druids.

Yeah, it's very different. So this guy would not be able to blend in, unlike the children we saw in Bloodraven's cave who could kind of. If everyone was drunken in the dark, sure. Yeah, I mean, that's Westeros. Everyone is drunken in the dark all the time. Yeah, that's true. That's true.

Especially at Harrenhal. Especially during the long night, in theory, if it were longer. But anyways. The long night that lasted five hours? Yeah. Yeah. The short night. The quick night.

Short night of the Seven Kingdoms. So Alice seemed pretty comfortable with the blood sacrifice and the utilizing that to manipulate some magic and work off of the strong magic power field going on at Harrenhal. Obviously you have been a big Alice Rivers fan for a long time from Fire and Blood. I'm like, Fire and Blood was a big time for all of us, an era for all of us. There's something I think we all got very attached to, but you've talked a lot about Alice with this season and all the new information you got. How do you kind of feel about Alice now? I mean, Alice was already my favorite character from this era. I mean, it was her then Lara Strong, and they already expanded his character so much for the show. I was like, all right, maybe Laris has taken over for Alice in terms of like my general enthusiasm for the character. And instead they basically took Alice to everything

I could ever want. She's much more deeply connected to the story. There's a way you can read her in Fire and Blood that it's kind of like, she's just kind of like a Melisandre stand in. She's doing some weird magic-y stuff. Maybe it's real, maybe it's not. Who knows if she's like, could she, she could just be clever, she could be magical. There's a lot of ways to read her character. And in this one, they kind of took both of those knobs

and turned them all the way up by making her clearly a skin changer with the owl thing. I was on that right away. I saw that owl was like, she's a skin changer. Well owl thing. I was on that right away. I saw that owl was like, she's a skin changer. Well, no, she said she was an owl in human form. I'm like, I have heard that before. I know that language.

That's what skin changers say. After they've been with their animals for so long, they start feeling like them. They start feeling like wrong when they're in their human body. They're like, oh, I wish I was in my animal all the time. Like there's a line where, what is it? Jojen says it to Bran where he's like if you stay in summer too long you'll become a wolf and Bran's like what's the problem? That sounds great.

Yeah. Sounds awesome. Yeah that's interesting. Being a wolf rocks. Yeah. I suck. I thought she was just being quirky. Yorkie. That's true. Oh my god. New girl style. Who's that girl? It's Alice. And then the green seer stuff where she knows what's in his dreams, which either she's got a glass candle we don't know about, or she's a green seer using the powers to mess with

his mind. So it's like really putting her kind of stamp on it in a very different way. And it makes her decisions and what she does, and especially at the end of the dance, with taking Eamon's child and kind of like making her, it's, I don't know, it's gonna be, I wonder how that relationship's gonna go. Where is it gonna be, there's a reading in Fire and Blood

that she's sort of aiming Eamon at different places for him to burn, and she's kind of aiming, amened at different places for him to burn and she's kind of leading him around. And there's kind of the sense of Alice was crying before she led Damon to the Weirwood tree to have him get his visions and I wonder if there's almost gonna be rather a sense of her being somebody who's obsessed with power which is kind of how she's written. She's written like she wants to take over from the strongs. They treated her poorly. Fuck the patriarchy. Take down, you know, take down the men that have held her down.

She's gonna be her own ruler of this place. But with her reaction to Damon, you can, I mean, there's definitely that there. She talks about, you know, how women and children are hurt more in war and dame and chastising Damon for allowing the crimes against them. But there's almost a sense of doom about her now that she sort of feels like the things she's doing she has to because of the way she interacts with the magical world, kind of like blood lovely. Kind of like Bloodraven and kind of like Bran, especially during like season seven and eight when Bran's

just like morosely going through the steps that he knows he's going to go through. It's like, is Alice, is that a way to understand her? That she's not really on board with any of this, but she feels there's no other choice. Did you read In the Lost Lands? Yes. I'm kind of wondering to an extent like uh because George never continued that series. Gray Alice. Yeah with Gray Alice like to an extent like is Gray Alice a prototype for this Alice Rivers as well you know and and she might know what's going to happen but there's an

extent of like she's just doing things because she, she likes, she's just doing those things, right? Like, cause Grey Alice also has this sort of connection with birds. Um, or that's one of the cloaks that she wears, right? She, she wears something and like becomes this sort of bird of prey-esque figure.

That's more, that's like a werewolf sort of thing where she like literally becomes the animal, like she shit changes. Yeah, yeah. She has like a couple of different ones. But it's also like, consumptive of the men too, right? Like she like takes that after the man. And there's something in the way that Damon wasn't easily seducible by Alice.

And something I really like is that even though she gets the Melisandre kind of comparison and you have like fire and blood full of the Melisandres, the Tiana, the, you know, this. This is, she doesn't get that treatment in show. She is, as Eliana and I have also called it before, as well as here, she's got the quirky, you know, the Zoe Deschanel, big bold glasses, like holding an ironic. I've been rewatching New Girl. It's Alice. I usually have a New Girl rewatch, but for Damon, it wasn't like a sexualized encounter,

and she had to do actually major psychic damage to him to get him to just go along with this, right? Where Aemond, we've already seen him with Madame Sylvie kind of bearing his soul, getting very vulnerable and in some aspects seen that he can be maybe movable just by word, just by touch, by intimacy and vulnerabilities. So I'd be curious to see how she gases him up and is like, everything's about you. You're the real, you know, king. You should be king. We could be king and queen together and rule and da da da da, as he dates his strong bastard witch queen. Love that. But I think like he's gonna be a different

task, so it's almost like she has been given her own task that she's working towards. And this is her big final push through this asshole, right? Like, great. Now I have this 18 year old wannabe, badass, psycho baby killer that I've got to deal with now. So I don't know. It's interesting how she's going to manage that and how she's going to feel dealing with Aymond and manipulating him into her will maybe or even like will she actually fall in love with him and will they share like bitter resentment over being outcasts from their family? I hope that she has the upper hand in a lot of this. I think she will. There's also an aspect

to it that apparently some of the things Damon did she didn't seem on board with. Like she literally came out and said like hey you fucked up you did this wrong. Oh sorry can I swear? Yeah okay yes please my god. I just want to make sure. Especially after unleashing the black wids on the Brackens like that was a that was a big deal for her. Unleash the bees. Unleashed the Ravens That's what they sound like when they attack they all shot up they just caught people If that happens with amen if she tries to

If she tries to Damon his ass and maybe it backfires like the slaughter of the the entire household of house strong I mean like they ignore each other, but it doesn't seem like she wants them dead. I wonder if like parts of it could backfire on her. Gail Rankin has talked about this a lot in interviews where she said that she doesn't want Alice to just be a force of nature. She wants her to be a person and if she's a person then she has to everything can't go to plan you know. and then she has to everything can't go to plan you know that's interesting so maybe she'll yeah reap what she sows in some of that next season like yeah her crying before putting daemon's hand on the thing is really interesting that's that's crazy like why what is she sad about because nothing nothing that happens to Damon in that moment is particularly sad.

So what could she be... What could she be reacting to? What does she know that is coming as a result of this that she's upset about? Not her if she's fucking that 18 year old. Coming. Or nursing him. Yeah, or she's just doing the like what Grey Alice did. She's like, yeah I'll fuck him then I'll kill him. And wear a new cloak. Exactly. I will take his baby. That's also another part of it where is she trying to like create the prince that was promised? Like does she see herself as creating the old the song of ice and fire through a child with Aamond. Oh interesting. Could she be wrong about that? That would be an interesting twist on it. We have all these people on the path to the prophecy. Right. Especially because they literally showed Daemon it so does she know about it?

Yeah. And does she have her own interpretation like everybody? Like a mating call? Yes. You want to make a prophecy, baby? That's Rhaegar's line. You wanna make a prophecy, baby? Come on, let's go and fuck. I never see you anymore. In the tower of droid? In real life, just only in the trees. What?

Good God. We used to be best buddies, but now you're drinking blood. I don't understand why. Do you wanna make a prophecy, baby? Speaking're drinking blood i don't understand why do you want to make a prophecy speaking of drinking blood you're not doing the song with us you're not singing you don't know you don't know the words matt you don't know the words to the song absolutely not i do not know the words to those songs

but i guess like kind of the last sort of harren holly well not the last thing but one thing to to talk about is is the sacrifice of Willem Blackwood, where one thing that is something that's literally only in the books, because Dana Day for sure cut the fuck out of this, is the idea that when you're in a Weirwood and like blood gets splashed on its roots, the Weirwoods drink it and they taste it and it's like nutrients to them just like that I went full full suck of noises I did not make a slurpy noise just to complete the prophecy? The dragon must have three swords. Oh god, I had no choice in the matter. I was willed to it. God bless you.

Talk about the Blackwood death. Come on. Murder that guy. Let's go. So yeah, it's the idea of king's blood. The murder of a Blackwood and the ancient blood of not only the Starks but the blackwoods themselves the only old god adherents in the south and like a very very committed to it ones like there's a line where Queen Alisane says oh I know about all these secret weirwood worshipers in the south but I won't name them because George RR Martin didn't want to name them for some reason but the blackwoods are just openly like, fuck the faith, the seven y'all can go screw. We love Weirwoods. So the idea of sacrificing a Lord of house Blackwood to the Weirwoods is something

that like can also be seen as a paying for something. You know, the only death can pay for life. And there's a lot of murders that are going to happen, obviously around the gods. We have multiple Targaryens, we have multiple dragons dying in the gods eye, we have a blackwood being sacrificed, the entirety of how strong it's like, what is this? What is this building towards? Because Condal is the kind of writer that would care about that and would not miss the fact that all this blood's being spilled into the Isle of Faces. Yeah, you were talking about that during the season as well, Chloe. And the answer is they're going to make a Philosopher's Stone.

Oh my god. They're gonna make a prophecy baby in the Riverlands. Jon Snow. I actually know the words to my version of, Do you want to make Jon Snow man? more than I know the words to the actual Frozen song. Oh no. Uh, I am serious though. Like I think it's like binding people to, you know, their destinies that they may or may not choose to self-fulfill in some aspects so many of the big important things and the main plot or pre a swath right right before and Roberts rebellion take place in That same land, you know those same those rivers flow with the river blood through them and yeah Okay, so the rivers part is Gail Rankin said that Alice is 400 years old.

And I'm wondering if she actually is a member of how strong or she just always just pops up and says, Oh, I'm a bastard member of your house. I'm just a rivers. Like, has she been there since, since Heron laid the first stone? It's has she always been like, is she responsible for everything, all the downfalls of the different Lords of Harrenhal? Like, I made in that video I talked about, I went through and I went like,

here are the logistical reasons why these guys all sucked and why they lost Harrenhal, but it'd be interesting if you can now backfill using that kind of information that maybe Alice has been consistently kicking lords out of Harrenhal every generation. That's interesting. I love that.

Especially if she was there watching Harren fell every fucking tree for that castle and felt it right in her very soul felt it. I was also thinking like I'd swear revenge. And she just let Reyna live there because she was like, she's not doing anything. She's just being sad. She's like, oh, she's hot. She's just being hot and sad. She's hot and sad.

Maybe they were best friends. Reyna herself seems to be touched a little bit by prophetic things in her own way. Oh, but also the other way. Best friends. I know about Reyna's best friends. They're some of my really good friends too, actually. JAYLEE Just best friends. They just hold each other's hands and high five all the time. I mean, she does like Ryna Targaryen. I'm just saying. But like, there's that weird detail about Alicene and Jaehaerys that the

dragon eggs were picked by Raina. And those are, those were very impactful eggs she picked. I think it was random. She's like, oh, these are cool. But between her and Dreamfire and also the connections between dream hire Dreamfire and Helena, like, maybe they're gonna maybe develop that in some way. Like, what would imagine a line of like, Alice starts talking about Raina and like Dreamfire and like knows them personally, that'd be really cool. That would be so cool. Don't fucking get me excited like this right now, because that'd be so cool. But I do, I think I really think that's true. Because you think about that year, that entire year that Reyna took solitude and took Dreamfire and flew around looking for Aria.

So sad. When Aria was gone, right? So sad. Only alone with nothing but Dreamfire and her own thoughts as she searched for her lost daughter who was in Valeria and like, grieved basically the whole time. And like, obviously you have those great parallels to Rhaenyra this season looking for Luke, but imagine doing that for a year. We saw Raniera do it for maybe like a week and that will tear you apart, but like Reyna and Dreamfire, their connection must be so strong, right? Like there must be so many memories and so many bits of lore from the family, like inner Valyrian lore that she knew and that Dreamfire knew and that now

Helena has access to. And that's a great question. Does that, I think we got to see something kind of neat, right, with Helena appearing in Damon's dream. And I very much am, and I think you're in a similar boat that I believe she was entering in on that moment, very Blood Raven and Bran versus Melisandre, and they just got caught in the internet at the same moment, on the same IP address, in the same Weirwood.net,

in the World Wide Web of Magic, Helena saw them and they saw Helena, and it was such a cool moment to see that and to have this connection of the Weirwood and the Dragon Dreams, right? Those networks of magic. Yeah, absolutely. This is something we talked about with Megan, but you know, I do think, and we've been discussing,

like it's all the same kind of pool of magic probably, and I just like, you know, I was like, oh wait, interesting, they're the greens, and she's the one with the green seeing, and she's in a green dress, and she's doing a little bit of that green seeing browsing whatever Cristine Oh so Jojen

Cristine Yeah Ben Would you say she was doom scrolling? Cristine I mean yeah Ben Like doom scrolling the weird Cristine If you're watching your uncle's weird ass nightmares that feels like doom scrolling Cristine Yeah Ben It is really interesting that she can like just

like go into dreams like that because that, that's a green seer thing. That's not a dragon dreamer thing. We've never heard of that before. The idea that there's like the same sort of like liminal space or like, like a, almost like a twin peaks black lodge sort of idea where it was like a nexus where they can all kind of talk to each other. That's a very new idea. Um, although George, yeah, you enter the black lodge and there's like all these each other. That's a very new idea. Um... Is that what happens in Twin Peaks? Although, George?

Yeah, kind of. You enter the Black Lodge and there's like all these souls... I haven't seen it yet. Just like mingling. Chloe... Chloe... I know! I haven't seen anything! What are you saying? What do you mean what am I saying? I haven't seen... Why have you not seen it? I haven't seen so many things! Did we go over this all the... I've seen like... Well, like the Sopranos. Yeah, actually. Like the Sopranos. But Chloe's seen a lot of Twin Peaks, but I have not seen any. Oh man, Matt's going all in on the Sopranos right now. Such a good comparison, Matt. I'm so glad you guys are watching it and together-ish.

Please do keep going. Matt's got better thoughts. I was just like, wow, that's so silly. I wrote her an essay. Interesting stuff. I expect an essay bi-weekly, you two. So you better get working together on it. Matt's already made an essay on the first episode. I wrote an essay bi-weekly, you two. So you better get working together on it. Matt's already made an essay on the first episode. I wrote an essay to her in my DMs. Well, I expect you to refine these and begin presenting them bi-weekly to me, both of you.

Oh, you want me to present Matt's thoughts? I mean, I can do that. Matt had this great idea. No, I'd like you to work together. It's your group project for your masters in the sprint. Masters or maesters? Anyways. Hmm. Dr. Professor. maesters? Anyways. Hmm.

Doctor professional. New Link forged. Oh my God, I'm getting another master's degree. Master monthly degree. Not the PhD, wait. Master monthly. No, but I love the comparison to Twin Peaks and that like very like, that other state of being of nothing, like not just of ever, it's of everything and nothing all at once, right?

Of all these possibilities that could be in all these possibilities that couldn't be and blackness and lightness and kind of that balance of ice and fire or the force or you know Whatever the fuck you want to liken it to I think there's something really cool in that that nether space Exactly, and it's like George's kind of described as magical stuff as kind of being like a force of nature kind of like the electromagnetic field or like the Weak and strong nuclear forces or something like that where it's not it doesn't belong to anybody it doesn't belong to ice or fire like if you look at all the different magics have overlaps like

You can make fire zombies. You can make ice zombies. The green seers can make their own zombies and blood raven more or less. He's basically dead at this point. They both have access to this dream world. They have the ability to control things with their minds. It's all just kind of like different ways of walking into the same bar. And it's kind of like Helena and Damon

just kind of cross paths. And I think that's something that's really, really interesting is that Helena finishes her sentence in the real world where she's standing there and she just like finishes talking. And then obviously, Aiman walks up and he probably heard her and was like, what the fuck did she just say? And you can probably understand that this is what she's been

doing her entire life. Every time she says something completely out of pocket and nobody understands what she's saying, she's clearly talking to somebody or something in this space that her mind is constantly split between two worlds and it makes her seem otherworldly. It makes her seem confusing. But the important thing is that what she was saying made perfect sense in the dream world, but it made no sense in the real world.

I think that's a really cool way of understanding her. I love this. This is how like I've been thinking of it similarly, almost like she exists in that negative space, right? When she begins like sensing or getting visions, and it's almost like a screen rolls and she's seeing all these things and she's immersed in these visions, then it fades to black. and she's left kind of like picking up the remnants and pieces and if you're constantly being shown these flashes these bits of future over and over like like when she said the beast beneath the boards the first time and then the second time right like just very I love that idea of just fade to black and suddenly she's kicked out of it and she's left nowhere and she has to

somehow put it all together like a puzzle and that's what's coming out the other end in the real world of her and that's amazing. Like the exact same thing happens during right before blood and cheese where she she's talking to Aegon and all of a sudden she turns to the side she has the same look like this just gazing into the middle distance and says that she's afraid of the rats, more or less. I forget the exact thing, but she says like, I'm afraid of the rats. And then she like comes back and then is talking to Aegon again. And it's like the same kind of thing. She briefly went to that timeless dream world or whatever, and then came right back.

Dissociative. Yeah. and then came right back. dissociative, yeah. You know how people have like, her family, it seems don't seem to understand that she does have these dreams and these prophetic visions. I think that they kind of suspect that, I don't know, maybe maybe something's going on here, actually, but no one's truly listening to her. It kind of feels almost a little like the mythological figure of Cassandra,

right? Who was given the gift of prophecy, yet the curse that no one would ever listen to her. Which I think is really interesting in the context of like Dany's The Dreamer, right? Because I love that her dad was like, wow, that's wild. I'm going to listen to you, young daughter. We should just all move. Let's all move to the vacation home and never come back to this place." And you know what, turns out it saved the family. That was great. Good job. And also, you know, like how Viserys like wasn't heated as a dreamer.

Everyone was like, I don't know, homie, like are you like, are these real? The things that you're dreaming and seeing, they are. It was just not really what he thought it was, that everything went awry. And then like, it kind of makes me wonder now that Helena's said this thing to Aemond, and he's like, oh. Oh, she like knows this is real. And then also even that Daemon saw her there, like, is Helena gonna be listened to more? Like, is she going to become more of a character that people give weight to. Yeah, at least her brother will, right?

He's now going to get well. In a bad way. And that opens him up for Alice. Yeah, that opens him up and not like, strap for Alice Rivers, you know? But maybe also like strap, if that's what you want it to be. But I'm just saying, like it opens up his like

His vulnerability for magic even more so and now he's gonna maybe believe her and be susceptible and vulnerable to anything She might tell him about his future or show him Yeah He might be a little shaken. I'm not sure alice needs the help She broke down damon like he was a cardboard box like she got in there like licketyety split. He had no defenses against her. But if you think about it, there's not just Aemond, but obviously her mother has heard her prophecy, the one about the losing an eye for a dragon. They heard that and dismissed it, but also Aegon. Remember, she told Aegon to think about the rats right before blood and cheese. Will he ever put it together?

He's got a lot of time to think. Especially now that he has... Yeah, exactly. He's got a lot of time to think and he's journeying around with the Rat King. So will he eventually go like, why did Helena know that? That was weird. That would be interesting. I would be very interested to find out.

I don't know. I mean, yeah, we have some scenes to fill. He's still going to be a pretty highly credited actor in the show. Yeah. So that would be pretty wild if of all of them, it turns out Egan is the one who like actually listens to her and is like, wow, my sister Helena, she really, she really just knows things. I might be too late by the time. I don't think they ever reconnect. I mean, there's a lot of people that I thought would never reconnect, so...

Yeah. That's also true. Maybe she sends a letter to him, go to Dragon's. I never thought Damon and Helena would ever, like, interact, so... Yeah, that's true. Actually, that goes into a theory that I've written and I recorded, but I have not released because I need more time on it. Special preview. So it's will they

reveal Aegon as a dragon dreamer himself especially because they're putting him through the brand tree. Everything about him falling from the tower at Rook's Rest to being Aegon the Broken to him having a legacy of it. It's like a 20 minute video I just have not released and I might not I might just rewrite it but that's the basic core of it that they're making they're putting a lot of brand onto Agon and be interesting if they also grafted the magical part onto him because Agon from here and out isn't super interesting. He's kind of in pain a lot and then getting a lot of revenge. It'll be interesting if he starts to also believe if he, what, like what if he's shown the Prince that was promised prophecy,

if he learns about the song of ice and fire, if he has the same dream, would that drive him to eradicate Renear? Or more or less that he has to be the one that it's not just purely, I'm getting revenge. It's I'm saving the world by killing you. Yeah, I tended to think, and I thought maybe we'd see this this season, but I thought that Aemond would get the knife, the cat's paw dagger, and maybe reveal it somehow. And maybe next season he will with Alice. But I did think that we would get Aegon and Aemon potentially learning about it in their own way and then seeking it in their own way as well, right? So I'm curious, there's still time to do that in season three.

I would say that maybe Aegon will become crucial to part of that or maybe that's why he's driven. I would think it would be an interesting choice for him to finally find purpose. He didn't really have purpose and really serving the people. So this would be his reason. Um, I'd be interested to see how that plays out and how he finds it, especially if he's going to go to Esso's for a while with Larry's and we're gonna get some more Esso's, uh, maybe world building and traveling through with them. Maybe he'll come across something in one of the free cities. Or Helena will reach out to him.

That'd be interesting though, if, you know, by exploring the free cities, even though he's the one who has been the least proficient in Valyrian, just by being thrown in and through cultural immersion, like suddenly like learns how to speak it and the language, which is honestly one of the best ways to learn how to speak a language but

Also like what you're saying to a lingo you're saying what you're saying is interesting about Just his character arc of if he like finds purpose because then What if he's the one who ends up having a character arc that most mirrors? Allicent and she's the and he's the kid that she hated the most. Yeah, that idea of him being like going over there immersing himself in the culture and finding the Valyrian within him to rise up and be the dragon is not unlike what Rhaegar does, right? When he wakes up and decides I'm to be a warrior or what many of these Targaryens who suddenly wake up like Baelor who wakes up and he's like I had a vision and I must never eat again or fuck my sisters ever again because I'm going to be enlightened. Most people wake up every morning and they're and they also think I don't I will never fuck my sisters. That's not fucking special, Baelor. Well, the changes he was supposed to.

Right, right, of course. The desire to not fuck a sister is very rare in the Targaryen bloodline. I'm just like, that's not special. You're not special for that, Baelor. Maybe you're a little weird for being like, I'm going to lock up my sisters. My god. Honestly, I think most Targaryens have potential for dragon dreams, right? Just untapped, kind of like this generation of Starks. And maybe it misses certain generations or certain people, but I feel like they all have a propensity for it as we witnessed with Viserys and some are shut off to it and some are more open to it, right?

Like the eye is open, much like the third eye with brand exactly seeing etc and other characters and you got the theory Yeah, that's the whole thing. That's how I that's how I interpret it But I think everyone can interpret their ace off however wrong or right that they are however they want right? That's something that's so great about the internet. You could just go on and post stuff It's great people do it all the time. You know, you can make stuff up about Aeswaf. I do it all the time, like Larys and the Rats. Just making that shit up. Just making shit up. The idea with the Essos thing, it'd be really interesting if he interacts with the faith of R'hllor.

Oh yeah. If like a red priestess finds their way to Aegon. Oh my god, a tolerant, a religiously tolerant king. Wow. Aegon really does have it all. A religiously tolerant king. Wow, Aegon really does have it all. Well until season 3 it seems that Aegon doesn't have one thing, which is a strong bond with his dragon. Things are going bad, but I'm sure that's going to be a fake out. We'll come back to Sunfire.

Sunfire's got a very big role to play, but this season told us a lot about dragons, right? Specifically that the dragon chooses the rider, right? Not always the rider choosing the dragon. How did you feel seeing the sowing of the seeds this season? I thought it was really interesting to see just like the total different reactions from the dragons, where you saw Vermithor who's like oh look a bunch of people I'm gonna kill all of them now like I don't have to like I could just fly away like Seasmoke did I could kill this one guy I could kill Silva Dennis because I don't like that guy apparently he's a dick just gonna burn his ass but or silver

ring could be like oh you precious child oh no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Okay. That's everything. Let me grandmother you. Let me, you are one of my little hatchlings. This is all great. Um, I really loved that they gave the dragons personality. They gave them preferences. They gave, it's not like, I mean, they're not Pokemon. You can't just like walk up and say, I choose you. And then they're like, all right, I guess that's how it works. I mean, we know from the sewing that the dragons did kill a lot of people, but it's sort of like, they all sort of did the same thing. This is very,

very different. And like, just as a challenge, can you guys tell me the difference between Viserion, Rhaegal and Drogon in the show? Like is there one other than their color and their size? Like personality wise, Spikier. Oh, like Drogon is much spikier. Um, wait Viserion's a zombie. Rhaegal? Yeah, well that's not fair. Uh, Rhaegal has some like crazy horns going on actually, some horn action. Viserion, I believe, has a beard similar to Seasmoke's actually, and is a less murky green than Rhaegal, just slightly, even though it should be cream, based on the books Cream

and Gold, like earlier seasons slash Meraxes colored obviously. So like, I can tell that way. I only say this because recently I did some very deep Analysis on the daemon vision with the dead dragon and I'm pretty sure it's sea smoke But that's what I'm thinking now because I compared the beards on every single dragon and the horns and the spikies for about an hour pretty stoned and I think it's sea smoke and like when you increase the saturation you can see that kind of pinkish cell with it But we'll see we'll see, we'll see. Or it could have been Viserion, it kind of looked like.

So that's why I mentioned the beard. But also, no, you can't, there's no fucking personality. That's Drogon's like bolder and bigger. And the other two are just there. It's more that Dany uses him more. That's kind of it. Are they beards or are they waddles? Which is what the little doodad under roosters are called.

Um, they're not long enough to be waddles. They're literally short little pricklies that are coming off the chin like a beard. I just like the idea. That's why I call them that. I just like the idea of the rooster waddles. That's all. You just wanted that to be so. I just wanted it to be real.

That's all. I'm sorry, honey. I would make you a dragon with a wand. Vegar has one of those. Definitely has a bit of a turkey neck. Thank you. Vegar, yeah, is kind of close. Vegar is probably the closest.

Yeah. Yeah. Mallory will make you a dragon, baby. I got you. There you go. Now you're a dragon. But yeah, I really like that they are just they're not just physically different. They're personality different. That like Vermithor just like started mass killing people just for the fun of it apparently.

Like was Vermithor bored? There's no reason to do it. Probably. He hasn't had a rider in a long time. He's just sitting there. Interestingly. He's growing restless because he's a dick. Except for the time a daemon came and sang to him. He's like, oh cool Different. Yeah, a worm. Vibin. Different. He's like I like Ranira and Damon Current mom and dad. Cool song. Woo

Sure has. I thought it was interesting that Vermithor was like asking Ranira to basically ride him Where they had that whole thing where she just called his name. He's like, hey, what's up? How's it going? And then came over and then let her touch him on the forehead. And then they both did the, like a slow blink at each other, which is like kind of like a weird connection thing.

And then throughout while Vermithor is killing people, like keeps looking back at Raniera like, hey, what's going on? Is this good? Am I still doing this? Is this what you wanted? Like this is what you wanted right? This is why you gave me all these people to eat. Of course that's what's going on here. I thought that was a really interesting sort of weird little thing with Vermithor and Rhaenyra. I'm not sure how much to read into it. I may be reading too much as I often do, but with her kind of change and kind of personality and her desire to be more of a warlike character and that she's really trying to embrace being more like Visenya, being more of a ruler that rules with the sword and fire and blood like Vermithor is the dragon that would let you do that. Vermithor is enormous. Vermithor is a war machine killed hundreds and hundreds of Dornish in his time. Fearsome dragon, the legacy of Jaehaerys. He's xenophobic.

Yeah, very loves killing Dornish. Can't kill enough Dornish Vermithor. Cancel Vermithor. Try. The uncancellable. Cristine He will cancel me from life. Ben I don't know. There is, and the way that she kind of looked at him after he got claimed by Hugh is almost like a look of like weird regret in a sense. I wondered if in that moment we're supposed to read that Rhaenyra, mm, I wish I had Vermithor instead of Cyrax. That Vermithor would let me do what I want to better, in the same way that she picked up the

Valyrian Steel Sword. See, I felt it was more like when you foster a cat and you say goodbye because it's going to a good family man whose daughter just died. Whose daughter just died. Yeah, I also was thinking like, I was walking down the street and had a random thought that I forgot until this very moment. What? I have some of my best thoughts walking down the street and then they're gone. Me too. Uh, granted, we don't, I don't think I remember anyone necessarily dying, maybe someone did, when Aemond claimed

Veigar, but I was kind of wondering like, do all these people die during the claiming of Vermithor in the way that like perhaps that is just part of what has to happen for a claiming, like a non-zero amount of people die, maybe by the dragon, maybe not, right, in terms of, you know, being part of the ritual to be able to claim a dragon. And a lot of people died, just like, you know, how it seems, how it takes maybe something like that in order to birth a dragon, you know? The idea of death may can pay for life. You have to pay by killing someone. Someone else has to die in order for someone to claim a dragon.

I don't know, but not not equivalent exchange. Yeah, I don't know. It was a random thought that I only voiced just now. No, I think you're onto something there. Another blood ritual, right? Yeah, kind of like that. Just like at the Weirwood. This was on an old Maester Monthly. What? Did he say that? I don't know. I wasn't so sure during those. You just unlocked a memory in my brain on old maester monthly. You talked about the idea of like them killing Targaryen bastards in order to hatch the eggs. That's funny. I mean, like not just for hatching the eggs, but yeah, just like for the the claiming of anything. So yeah, I don't know. Random thought.

That explains why we would have discussed that if that was planted somewhere in my subconscious. I do think the blood attracts the dragons to come out. Like a shark, yeah. Yeah, so that you can claim. Except Silverwing who's just like, cool, that's gone. Well, other people died over in the other room. That was part of the ritual. A lot of people died in the other room. Oh, they barely lived. Yeah, a lot of other people paid for that then. She was a super prime at that point. She was all juiced up from the blood sacrifice.

Exactly. We were discussing this with the ladies at Direwolf City and someone in the chat mentioned, actually, when you think about it, Silver Ring's kind of a dick. Oh yeah, that was funny. Just like banging her head, like snoot booting all over and just knocking him in. But also, I mentioned in our Season finale episode he was covered in egg, right? So he fell into like dragon uterine goo

Like egg goo which probably made her want to nurse him like a baby You know, so she's all like what are you doing? Get the fuck out of the goo you idiot baby I don't know. I thought that was interesting. She's very maternal though in some aspects. Grand maternal. This is not... The grand old game. Yeah, this is not... Grandmama. Something that... I don't think we get much elaboration on but like it almost seems as though I've never seen anything in the lore that says that dragons actually nurse other dragons. We always see them being nursed by humans. So what even is like, what are the family dynamics like of dragons?

If you ask the cannibal, it's kill them all. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, the most I get is like CK2, right? But if you play CK3, pretty soon all your mods and every game you've ever played is gonna break for dragons. This Friday. Oh, word? It'll be a couple weeks ago for everyone else, but. I don't think they... I don't think they have a family structure. Like, none of the dragons

we've seen, they all know each other, but they're also all cousins and like grandchildren and stuff like that like Veigar a bunch of them will be Veigar's children and grandchildren And she apparently has no problems smite like just absolutely ripping them apart they're just given the little babies away, you know, like the the little pups away as opposed to you know Like a bird going out there hunting and then like feeding the little baby bird from its mouth. Although they do nest. But like I never see them I don't know like I don't see them sitting on the eggs or like

what do they do? This is not an important question no one needs to know this answer I'm sorry that I focused down this road. We can continue. That's a good question. I know people have tried to do like family trees on them to figure out like based on characteristics and timing. Like a bunch of them are Dreamfire's eggs. But once you go back too far nobody knows. It's like did they come from Belaria? Probably not because it's always referred to as a he dragon and they only they decide they're female when they lay eggs. Fegar's a female dragon apparently which means they know she laid eggs. Not sure on Meraxes but it seems like a lot of them came from Fegar itself so I don't really know. Sorry not to go all like dragon gender discussion but also like is there? Like you say she but it seems that Barth was known to say that changeable as flame.

They're changeable as flame you know can scroll on whichever way you want it to be. So that on top of them being reptile-like, lizard-like means they don't just like cuddle their sweet beboos, right? Like their nature is not necessarily the same. Oh, they're like frogs. As human nature. And the tadpoles in Jurassic Park. No, literally. I'm still convinced that that's canon. I'm sure that's what George was referring to. No, I literally do think so. Yeah. So they leave the eggs like tadpoles and then the tadpoles all

just like hatch and then people just claim the fun little frogs and the frogs just happen to breathe fire and have wings. That's when things change, when someone claims them, right? When their personality and their soul are like kind of bonded in this thing right like when Vhagar and Aemond are one when Vhagar and Leina were one right like that's where it comes in and that's where some of these personalities bleed over and like we used to talk about a lot with Bran right is the fight between Bran and Summer and who's winning that fight in the brain and is it more like a song is it like a fight is it you, someone's pushing the other out? How can it inhabit?

And I think skin changing successfully and dragon riding and dragon bonding are similar in that, like, you have to learn to harmonize as one in one soul, one being, one body. One bread, one body. There's also the question of, is there anything as a natural Targaryen, I mean a natural dragon birth or anything like that because the implication is they were made by the Valyrians. So is it like with French bulldogs where like, I think it's French bulldogs where they can only have C-sections because of their breeding, like they can't give birth.

And that could be the kind of thing where dragons don't know what to do if there aren't people there to help them with it. Although of course there's the wild dragons and the ones that existed a long time ago, but if you take that part seriously that these are created things, it might be that they don't really have to have a family sort of structure because there's always these Valyrians to take care of. That's a really great point. The idea too of like them going against everything they mean, right? Just like Targaryens having to do that in general in the story and having to like make these choices that go against everything that they feel they are as a human being.

being and like the dragons too like what their nature is going against what they're being used for and how they mate or bond with like a Targaryen or Valyrian or maybe non Valyrian that rides them and bonds with them right like something very interesting about that of like the going against nature and what that all means and like were they even meant to love if they were created and like that part of like the idea of themes, right? Like, I don't know, there's something going on there. George is doing something. He's doing something.

He is doing something. It's a winter winter. I mean, not that I want that book. I don't even want it. No, it's Fire and Blood 2. It's Fire and Blood 2. We've already, yeah, we've discussed that. I think it is Fire and Blood 2.

We do too. Um, we talked about this. I think it is kind of good to. We do too. And we talked about this recently. That's okay. I wouldn't mind it, I guess, you know. Dragon riding. What about that? That was a segue. That was a good one. Which part, Eliana? I don't know. It's not like I highlighted anything for you or nothing. Oh, okay. Okay, so I'll give us a little intro to that one.

So one thing we learned is that Helena doesn't like riding Dreamfire, but apparently bonded her at a very young age, like much younger than we've seen. And the only time we've seen them fly was when they went to Dragonstone. Oh no, they went to Driftmark and back for Lena's funeral. So I didn't know what to make of that one. I mean like in Fire and Blood we do know that she does not ride Dreamfire basically ever. So I guess that's sort of canonical in a sense, but it's kind of strange that they made that explicit. Like it's not the sort of thing where it's like, oh we just don't hear about it

They're like she doesn't do it. What do you make of that? I'm going to save my full reservations for when the show has finished its four seasons However, there are two answers here if it's explained in universe and brought back up again and I will Take that with a grain of salt and appreciate it. If it is never brought up again, it was a fucking cheap way to say, we don't have to show another dragon on screen until it dies. And I understand the constraints that they're under, but that's a bummer to me. The Dreamfire Erasure is a bummer, speaking both as a personal fan of Dreamfire,

but also I think there's a very easy couple of in-universe explanations they could go with. Like, the first thing that comes to mind for me when they said that was, I think that at some point, not unlike Pupil, the Dragon Dreams came on like super strong. Right? And maybe it is connected, who knows. But I think at one point, the dreams amplified through Dreamfire and her connection to Dreamfire either have become too strong or she sees Dreamfire's death and she knows that maybe – and there's something interesting too and like maybe they'll give her more of Layna's death that she was trying to get to Dreamfire. And she goes to try to get to Dreamfire and dies.

Maybe she gets to Dreamfire and dies. Maybe it won't just be she crashed down on the gates and the spikes outside of the Holdfast and died. Maybe they will give her something a little more Dragonr Rider-y and give us that Dreamfire moment, but um probably not, but I I just think that there could definitely be some sort of psychic-esque explanation involved and that I mean dragons have to make those dreams and your bond with them have to make those dreams a lot louder and maybe she's trying to shut it up.

The voices, the dreams, the visions, I mean, they're not very conducive to leading a normal royal life, which is also not normal. Maybe it's also like hard to drive a dragon, you know, when you keep like zonking out. Well, she also spent like part of her teens pregnant, you know. Don't forget, like 15 16 17 and then she like had babies and had to take care of them so I think that's also an easy in-universe explanation but I think there's something that adds a lot to the story if they just go with it and actually expand on it and say hey she

knows how Dreamfire dies and she doesn't want to ride Dreamfire and lead closer to that death yeah there's also the thing that came out during the season that uh that screenshot people took of that page from the Valyrian book where it was implied that Dainys rode Balerion and it was on the first day that she that she claimed Balerion as a as a hatchling, that was when she first started getting her dreams. And that's much more of an explicit connection that the dragons are the source or there's something about like the communion between Valerian to dragon that causes the dreams to happen. Although we see later that that's not true though. There are dragon dreamers

without dragons. So maybe it that that's not true though. Exactly. There are dragon dreamers without drag without dragons. So maybe it gets stronger like Chloe was saying. Yeah, I was thinking the same thing because I was like, I don't know, maybe that's that as you were saying, but then we have what Darren the drunk and the other the other David he's also named David Blackfire, right? No. Danny has dragon dreams before she has dragons. Yeah. There's it's implied that maybe Aiman has them too.

He says he can feel their leathery wings on him. Yeah. So that's why I was like, maybe, maybe not. That's why I didn't say anything. But I'm glad you said it because then I can also now discuss it. But maybe that maybe that is, or maybe that's her way of flying with Dreamfire, right? It's not in this physical realm. It's in the...

Oh. Yeah, like together they're like, we're going on adventures. No one can see, but we're having fun in the digital world. In her Digimon. The dreams they fly every night. Digimon. Are you referencing the Digimon movie? Not just the movie. D-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d- No, but I meant like Rika season was season two, wasn't she? Yeah, no, Rika is three. Because you saw the Digi Dustin in seasons one and two where he made all this it

But Rika might I don't remember if she appears briefly in two or something with uh, what's his name? Rio or whatever TV series adventure adventure to its 2. It's adventure, adventure 2. They're called adventure. Men Tamers. Yeah. Okay. Well, glad we settled that. So, uh, Digimon, that's, uh, that's what's happening here. Digital Monsters? Yeah, maybe. That soundtrack is awesome for the movie, by the way. Digimon. It's so good.

Changing to the by the way. Get your mom. It's so good. Changing two days and another save the world. Oh my god. But to be honest I do wonder how much like uh there's a sense in uh other fiction that like it when you have a magical plane that magical things are like brighter there. It's like Lord of the Rings. This is definitely a thing that kind of play like Gandalf looks like an angel in the ethereal world but he looks like a old-ass human in the real world and it's like maybe the dragons also have kind of a presence there or something like that and also Dreamfire has basically spent the last few decades

in the dragon pit more or less and it's like dream fire in the cave like blood raven that kind of thing just like in the dark dreaming the whole time yeah that is actually really sad for the dragons that don't get claimed they just chill in the cave the whole time I mean I guess they were they seem pretty happy about there were the like get a dog and don't let it go on right well I mean I guess they're they seem pretty happy about it. There were the like get a dog and don't let it go on walk. Right well I mean I guess they're the the the helper. Ow fuck. The dragon keepers. The dragon keepers. I mean look at Vermithor and Silverwing. They've gone decades without a rider. They pretty much just hang out in the

caves of their own volition. Nobody's telling them what to do. Yeah. They're just hanging out. Maybe the keepers like take them on little Yeah. They're just hanging out. That's like me, I guess, in some aspects. Maybe the keepers take them on little walks. We're like, come. Come, we shall promenade around the island. Oh my god. They get all the leashes? Yeah. We're going out for walkies.

For real, though. They're like, the herey. Except for cannibal. I mean, they get the zoomies, obviously. Yeah. Grey Ghost does, and so does Sheepstealer. Sheepstealer zoomed his way to the veil. Yeah.

I mean, their way. I don't actually know Sheepstealer's gender. Their way to the veil. Thank you. They're all fluid. You're welcome. No, I'm serious. That's not a joke. They are. No, I am too. I am. It's true they are. Wow. Especially because it seems like they can just sort of lay eggs and then run away. So how would you even know? Bad parents.

Yeah, that's just like my biological father. Oh. We can laugh at it, guys. It's funny. We can just laugh at it. Uh, alright, so now that we've been talking about dreams and we've been talking also even about Alice, let's talk about some even bigger dreams. The dreams that like carry through each generation and they're called like prophecies and you know we talked a little bit about the weird thing already that uh, that Damon saw and

I flip flop on this depending on my mood, does Damon think that the person that he saw at Daenerys, does he think that that's Rhaenyra or does he think that this is some girl who came from their line? I think coming off of Visenya's death, baby Visenya's death also adds to this in some aspect that it is still in their minds. I know some have argued it wasn't a big topic this season, but I'd argue that it's hard when all of your children keep fucking dying to focus on one's death. Yeah, which child's death shall I focus on?

In the middle of the war. But no, I do think that Bersenya was still there as kind of a soft background piece, and I feel like that can tug on your heartstrings enough and manipulate you enough to think maybe there's a chance to have one more to bring that daughter into the world. And I lean towards yes, specifically because of Targaryen rulers fixating on having their legitimate children or having children to fulfill the prophecy and to sit the throne

and rule the Iron Throne and rule the Seven Kingdoms beyond just we need an heir for societal reasons. Like also it seems a lot of them got very obsessive about it, right? When you start to look at, I mean, the Viserys Rhaenyra thing, obviously, is the big one in the show that we painted. It's painted out of guilt. It's painted out of prophecy. Rhaegar, if we go all the way forward in time, right? What does he say in the vision in the House of the Undying? There must be one more. The dragon has three heads. He's not talking about dragons, right, at that point. Maybe he is. He was talking moreover though about babies and

making another one on his sweet sweet 15 year old child bride. Anyways, Agen the Fourth legitimizing his bastards. I know people will give me shit but I do think that there's something going on there that maybe could connect it to the prophecy. I think he saw Daemon as the rightful person to take this that he thought he had the qualities of leadership. Verility. This was the way forward. Yeah, maybe.

Maybe. I don't know what he saw, but I think that he- That man fucks. Yeah. He sure did in his day. He's like the inverse of Baelor. It's like Baelor learned the prophecy and it's like, well, I can avoid it by not having any children.

And Aegon said the other way like oh I just gotta have tons of kids one won't be the one will be the prophesized one oh look it's Daemon it's honestly like when I think about it in that context it kind of makes me mad because I'm like it's not actually the worst plan it's a pretty bad plan I mean didn't turn out great in the long run I think it's actually the most interesting device though to influence in so many ways, right? Like, okay, religion, throw religion in the mix. What happens when they're contending with the faith at the same time?

You have characters like Baelor or characters like Maegor and Aenys, right, who also know the prophecy canonically now. Like they would have known it from Aegon and probably from their mothers, well, from mother, because Amys' mom passed away at a very, very ripe young age. Very sad. And even as far as Maegor, right, he takes a bajillion wives and then makes Arya his heir when none of that works out for him. Feminist king.

Feminist icon. Wow. Jaehaerys with all bajillion. Jaeharus was like if I keep fucking my wife until she leaves me several times and putting babies in her maybe I'll survive the prophecy. Jaeharus just went for quantity over quality. Which is what Aegon the fourth did. Yeah. Exactly he Aegon the fourth yeah. He proto Aegon the fourth. Also there's a lot of rumors that Jaeharus had a bunch of bastards and he apparently

logic'd in and just like debated them out of existence but there's a lot of rumors about your Harris having a lot of kids outside of his marriage well then you wonder why he put he didn't really want to bend over on sorry bend over on the first night being abolished so easily. You wonder why. Curious about that one. Huh?

It's like Targaryens have always been sort of interested in the sort of drop in dragon seeds all over the place. My shirt say that says I do not participate in the first night is getting a lot of questions about the first night. Especially because nobody did it. It's like why did you have to convince him? It's like who's actually still doing this and they're like oh kind of just the Boltons. Fuck the Boltons. We just want to have the right you know we just want to have the right.

Clearly the only place it was still happening was Dragonstone. Like that was the problem. It's like how even if I don't go to a party I just want to be invited. Is it the, I just want to be invited. You want to be invited to the first night? No, nevermind. I take this back. I do not wish to be invited to that party. I take it back. I take it back. A lot of people rejected the invite and still had to go. Yeah.

So there's that. And later down the line you have Aegon V who, you know, makes these marriages for his children and quite obviously is interested in prophecy, right? That's proto-Rhaegar stuff comes from Aegon Aemon's relationship, a lot of it, as Dr. Magician has talked about as well before. And obviously Aegon was into prophecy and all of his kids broke away from his best laid egg plans, unfortunately. So I don't know, something going on there. We'll find out more hopefully in Night of the Seven Kingdoms. Ha ha ha.

I'm just kidding. And then Ares won in Aelora, right? I've been talking a lot about Aelora recently, I don't know, it's like my Targaryen special interest right now. But yeah, Aelora is my big Targaryen special interest. Something's crazy about that, that he's like, all right, I guess you're heir Aelora, and she goes mad, probably has dragon dreams, goes mad, and ends up dying after a bunch of crazy absurdity that you can read about in the world of Ice and Fire. Or listen to in our episode, From Her Blood, Rainey's the Conqueror, aka Rainey's Truthers.

It's on Patreon, patreon.com slash girlsgoncanon. Thanks, go there, bye! But it is a good, it's a fun episode. You should listen to it everyone. Stranger Tear and a Bug. It's worth it. It is worth it. But yeah, I don't know, there's something going on with all these Targaryens and their heirs and the way they were put in and certain ones that have different weird suspicious circumstances and them doing crazy unprecedented things. Like they all interpret these prophecies differently. So I think to answer your original question, Eliana, yes, I think that Damon probably saw what he wanted to see

or saw what comforted him, right? And saw this girl and thought, wow, after seeing all the dragons dead, she's gonna bring them back. And she's from us? Like me and Reneera have to do this? I have to make babies with my wife at Heron Hall tomorrow? All right, I'll do it. Yeah, so he does not think it's Raniera because some

people did interpret it as that and like me, I sometimes am like he could have just because I think it would be funny and you know I'm really convinced by the lulls but like that doesn't mean that it's true. That's not the best rationale Yeah, it is interesting thinking about it. Like I think you could build the case either way Like I think you could definitely say he understands it's not Raniera But the question becomes does he know his wife's naked back on site? Like does he know that's not actually a Raniera? I do think I know my partner's they have the same hairstyle and he knows those dragon eggs. Those are the dragon eggs he pulled and directly from Dragonstone. So I think you could

surmise that maybe Damon thinks that is Raniera in the future. But I think it's, I think from Condole's explanation that he gave in the after the episode and in subsequent interviews and podcasts, that I think that Damon does know that's not Raniera, especially because when he's talking to her, he talks about, you're like, we have to spend the rest of our lives doing this. And if it doesn't happen in that time, you know, into the future. So I don't think Damien is thinking, I think he's open to the idea that all the visions are now. But I think he's also hedging his bets and it's like, maybe that's somebody I don't know. Especially because he has no idea who Blood Raven is.

That was the first vision. It's like, who the fuck is that? What's this guy doing with the crazy Weinstein's like, birthmark? What's the Raven? What's going on with this stuff? There's a lot of things in that vision he doesn't know what it is.

So I think you could sort of read it kind of either way. I would like the idea that Damon just kind of goes like, Oh, of course, that's that's Renear's butt. That's my wife. I know who that is. That ass came down. The ass that was promised. Brought it down. Yep, exactly. But that's a good point. I do know my partner's back and butt. And I think I would recognize

if it was a different one. I think we're gonna have to pep to challenge this one. We're just gonna have to show Eliana a bunch of a bunch of dudes. Pick out, pick out your partner. I do, I also really like the idea. So one thing that came up with this a lot in discussion is, is this basically a confirmation that this means that Daenerys is Azor Ahai reborn, that she is the princess princess that was promised, because you have all the images there. You have the waking the the dragons from stone, you have the bleeding star, you have the salt and smoke of the bonfire of Khal Drogo, and she's covered in soot and stuff like that. And he basically came out and said, absolutely not. That's not what I'm saying. He said, I, he said that this is not meant to say that absolutely

Daenerys is Azor high. What he explained is that this was for Daemon that the dreams, which are, we can interpret being sent by bloodraven considering he's the first image are meant to manipulate him and that is playing on Daemon's vanity that a Targaryen will save the world. That doesn't have to be literally true, but it's being... This is a crafted set of images to get him to do something, more or less. Cristine It's interesting too, the flashes that he gets, I don't think that he necessarily has the means or understanding to totally interpret them, and he really reflects that in his Valyrian conversation with R'nyra, this feeling of overwhelmed, like, I don't know what the fuck I saw, but it looked bad, and I just know that I have to help you so we can get this done.

Like, I think I understand it, I don't know but we got to do it one way or another and I think it's interesting because he's not He's not the type of character to lean into those signs importance, right? Like Daemon his power is what he prefers to wield as his weapon He tells Viserys that as much in that deleted season one scene that was used a lot in the trailers for season one where he says that, you know, dreams didn't make us kings, dragons did, which the irony is of course that dreams did put you in the position to be kings, but the dragons are what has upheld your position. Like he was very close to being right in that statement.

The dragons keep that leverage and control across the nation that allow you to sit as gods in King's Landing. And I think now the scales have tipped and he somewhat understands like, oh, maybe I didn't know what I was speaking about then. Yeah, exactly. And sort of when you think about what he's being shown, I mean, he's shown Rhaenyra on the Iron Throne, which does happen, but also doesn't show the end of her life. He's being shown what appears to be Tumbleton, but that's not the actual death of all the dragons. Even being shown Bloodraven is a really weird one. I think you're right that in a sense, it's meant to shock him and to kind of like break him of, which has been kind of the entire point of what Alas and the weirds have been doing of, which has been kind of the entire point

of what Alice and the weirds have been doing to him, opening his mind to the idea that he has to give up his idea of the throne, that he has to sort of go through this larger prophecy and see himself as a piece on the board, which literally Alice says to him rather than the player. And I think that was kind of the point of all the images. Would you guys, and also, I mean, like literally, Bran's not in this vision. Yeah. Bran, he doesn't send the visions,

he's not sending the dreams. I mean, if you're talking about showing Daemon the future, showing him just Daenerys hatching the eggs and not where she goes, and Bran's eventual ascension to king is kind of a big part to leave out if you're trying to show somebody the objective truth of the future. It's a crafted message is what I'm getting at.

I think the way that I saw it was that he, because he doesn't see a lot of other things as well that we know end up being somewhat important. Like I think I saw it as that he's able to see Bloodraven and Daenerys because they are from his mind. Same as how he's able to see blood raven and Daenerys because they are from his line. Same as how he's able to see Helena. He's got a stronger magical connection to being able to see what evolves from his line as opposed to, I mean, the Starks, right? He's got no blood connection with Bran.

So like, that's why he's able to see them in those visions. I agree with that. I think it's very Targaryen focused. It is very Targaryen focused. Especially since Bloodraven is his great-grandson, I think that's the relationship. It's also kind of interesting to think about, is this, could you read this as a difference in how the two three-eyed crows basically interact with the past? Like, we've seen that Blood Raven's very active in what he does and how he's kind of manipulating people, especially with Bran. Like he is trying to shape a future. I wonder if we're supposed to read this, if we could read this in a way that with Bran's ascension to that title and to those powers, that he kind of just goes with the flow, you know? Like maybe that time would have been

after ruining Hodor's existence. Or during, or before. Ben Well he did go for the wheelchair plans, so he's talking to some of them, or seeing some of them I guess. Eryn I know that uh- Ben But maybe not interacting with their minds. Eryn I know that you said it might be Daemon calling Alfred Broom a traitor, but I wouldn't be surprised if that was Bran considering we've seen Bran speak to Theon through the trees.

And Ned. Yeah. And possibly Ned. So I wouldn't be against Bran like heckling someone. I mean that, if anyone knows about being, about people being treasonous to him or his family, it's, it's Bran, but he, he doesn't seem like the kind of person who says that, but also I just don't know that it's Bloodraven because that man is like way too sad about not being able to communicate with anyone in the past, um,

for him to be able to do so. But it implies he tried. Yeah. I think he tried, like he, and he tells Bran, he's. Yeah, I think he tried. Like he and he tells Brandon he's like, I tried, I tried, I'm big sad, a lot of people that I love are dead. And Brandon's like, I'm gonna try even harder. I I too have suffered maybe even more because I am younger. And it goes for it. Sort of going back to the point I was making about Alice,

it'd be interesting if this is like a blood-raven mistake when he's experimenting and he does try to influence things and realizes he made no difference. He made the future happen. Oh, okay. Yeah, no, that makes sense because the ink is dry, as they say in season eight of Game of Thrones. Wait, was it season eight? I don't even remember as they say in season eight of Game of Thrones. Wait, was it was it season eight?

I don't even remember where they say that Season uh, it's with Max von Seidow. Uh, yeah, it's five. That's a six. Yeah all all the isn't it or no It's four. It's four. No, everything. I think it's It's the no, it's it's around the john snow reveal. So So it's six. Yeah, six seven and eight are like all the same season to me, which is like a controversial opinion, but like that's just how I feel. One real bland sandwich is something. You also referenced Eliana, the idea of Damon being the one that says traitor.

Do you guys want to quickly talk about MJ? I thought... Oh, did I? I don't know. You said that in one of your videos. I don't remember MJ saying it but maybe she did but I just remember you saying it somewhere. It might have been in the slack or something oh it might have been in discord. I think it was in your video but maybe not your stream. I don't even remember it's just a blur of 8 weeks. See I don't even remember anything either.

6 7 8 all the same season to me this just happened to me in a video I'm like did I yeah no I don't know same maybe I did we don't know either but this uh that kind of goes to gray errors theory that maybe after Damon's bodies never found as we know he crashes into the gods eye they find vagar they find caraxes they find amen no damon and her theory is that he gets fished out by the green men and put into position to be a three-eyed raven similar, or just like a green seer figure, much like Blood Raven. And it would be interesting if Daemon is in heckling himself from the future, just going like, this guy's a traitor. Yeah. Um, I like that idea too. I, I do, uh, I, I feel pretty convinced by great areas theory of like Damon being some sort of green seer esque person for a bit there, uh, and you

know, him being fished out, like it's one of the triggering points, right? To, to your green site and your death experience. So drowning feels- Falling from a great height. Well, that too. I mean, I think, I think there are multiple points in which you can have the near death experience, right? The falling, the impact into the water. I hear that that's actually what kills you when you jump into the water from a

great height, not just the drowning. You tend to that pressure as you hit the surface of the water. And then also there's the drowning. And then there's the part where they were fighting as well. And he could have sustained wounds. There's a lot of points in which a lot of things can kill this man. Broken Daemon just being fished out. Hey, let's put this guy in a tree. Very Darth Vader. It would be the kind of thing Gurm would do and this would definitely not be a theory that would come true in Game of Thrones, but Condal has established he is very pro-magic and he's doing a lot of things and injecting it like we talked about at the beginning,

like making Alice legitimately a green seer and a skin changer is a massive change to her character. So if anybody's gonna do it, it's gonna be Ryan Condal. And he might've named the character Ariana after me. What won't he do? What won't he do? He's a mad man. If he makes Laris a green seer, oh boy. Oh boy. It's actually funny about that.

Everything I wanted from Laris, they just did with Alice. Oh, interesting. Like that entire series. Yeah, interesting is so funny. I was like, what if they take this mysterious character who's like kind of maybe magical and they make it explicit and they're like, well, we'll do that with Alice. I'm like, yes, nailed it. At least I got it somewhere. I got the idea, just maybe the wrong character.

I honed in on the right family. Do you think we'll see them interact? Yeah. Laris and Alice? So that's something that's definitely gonna come up in a video on my channel. I want to say I've talked about during videos I put out already and on live streams, but Laris and Matthew Needham have both referenced Alice and the magic of Harrenhal and that he's aware of it. Like Simon Strong appears to be unaware

of what's going on around them along with the rest of the Strongs. Like they don't really seem to be tuned into the magic, but Laris is. And there's even the story he told Aegon about how when he was born, a member of his house was blamed for casting a spell on him to get his club foot.

Now that's no way literal, I don't think that's what happened, but it's established this connection between the magical Alice Rivers and Laris. So I wonder if she's done to Laris what she's done to Damon. If this is like- Cristine Fuck. Ben Even if he's not magical, maybe she messed with his mind, used the Weirwoods and kind of like pushed him out into the world as a pawn on the board bullying the kids interesting yeah

uh i mean if she's gonna do it to dame and why not anybody also the idea that that was probably laris's bed that he's sleeping and that's the lord's room that's oh would it have would it be do you think laris has been there since and slept in that bed? Because that would be what? Father's, father's bed. And I wonder if he ever like went there after, maybe, maybe not. I don't know.

Lighten it, cried a little. Maybe or was he just like- Maybe his dad went to King's Landing. Oh no, he went with him. Yeah, exactly. So- But it'd be interesting if that was his bed too, if this is like a mirrored thing, like Daemon's not explicitly magical,

but he's definitely having magical stuff pushed on to him. Same thing could happen to Larris. Interestingly enough, Harrenhal's pretty big and people have hidden out there before. So maybe Aegon and Larris could return to Harrenhal and hide out in one of the towers. And it almost like goes back to how Sunfire was just like there and no one knew that he was there so you could have some interesting parallels there like maybe they it

would be a silly plot in some aspects it's kind of like marrying Sansa to the Boltons and sending her to the north like it's like a silly aspect but maybe yeah it would be funny. I'm confused about what they're doing with Laris. This is like the last thing, because they're having him leave with Aegon. But we know he comes back. So is he going to abandon Aegon in Essos?

Or what ends up happening here? Because it's heavily implied that he's behind a lot of the unrest in King's Landing. When he strides back in, he's like high-five and everybody like look I did all this stuff it's like he's gonna drop him off at Dragonstone and he's like just preparing his Aegon is like not yeah yeah well no I mean I think they might go to Essos for like the whole season and the end of the season might be like the last few episodes Aegon is hiding out on Dragonstone like he does in the books

because he hides out on Dragonstone and then in season four like maybe they take Dragonstone or whatever he hides out on Dragonstone at the end of the season they come back because then season four he like pops up he's like surprise I hanged your household and I have your house now like maybe the end it'll be a great mirror of like taking- Wow, it would be a great mirror if we had taking King's Landing against Dragonstone being taken. But I guess it'll work for the season as an opposite. Or hanging everyone and mirroring the shot of all the rat catchers being hanged as well. Or also-

Yeah, something. Have you considered- Hold on, I had a thought throughout this. Matthew Needham thinks that Larry's being King of the rats is so uh outlandish because he's not just king of the rats but also other animals and his skin changing other animals have you thought about that Matt? He's king of the seven rats. I mean the rats the mice. You are sounding exactly I you sound exactly like the people on my channel. I made a post about this and just really, a lot of them made me laugh because they're basically along those lines.

Like this is exactly what Laris the Rat King would say. It's his favorite because he knows it's true. What is it? Oh, there was a really? I'm just being supportive. Oh, they said outrageous. That's exactly his strategy, but they high- they uppercased all the rat words and that and it's like- it's like I'm trying to tell people like, no, it's probably not true. I mean, but who knows? I mean, actors say whatever they want. Who knows? Gal Rankin is the only one that has said

Alice is 400 years old. We have no idea if that's true. CINNAMONS You know, I gotta say, you gotta let that go. Your fans have taken it. It's outlived you. You know, it's Death of the Author. Death of the Creator. CINNAMONS Wow. CINNAMONS You know, this theory's beyond you now. You've gotta just let it go in the wild and hope that those rats grow. Hope they all grow. BINDA Are y'all watching the Decameron?

I started it. It's not about rats. It's about uh the bubonic plague but it's got what's her face from Dairy Girls in it and then Gary from uh from Beep isn't it? It's a it's a comedy yeah it's a comedy about uh the black plague or the bubonic plague yeah the black death yeah that's cute we saw a trailer for. It looks ridiculous. I've got nothing. Interesting. I'm just going to say Matthew Moodydome is going to absolutely just throw his script down in rage next season when it opens with Laris controlling the rats. He's like, damn it. Exactly. That Dr.

Magician. Joe Magician got me again. Got him. Well, thank you so much for joining us today, Joe Magician. Can you tell everyone where to find you at home? You can find me on the Maester Monthly podcast. You can also find me on youtube.com slash Joe Magician, where I do a lot of fan theories, sort of lore explainers, deep dives into all sorts of different topics that I will be making much more videos on because a lot of them are in an annoying live stream form during COVID. So that was fun.

You can also find me on Twitter, Instagram, Blue Sky, all basically Joe Magician. Just don't look up the guy that's actually a magician who... Cristine Have you considered... Ben There's actually... Cristine Maybe you should do magic but go ahead that's what sam colman told me he was like he started showing me up close magic he's like why don't you do this i'm like i'm not as cool as you sam um uh what else you can also pick up some sweet sweet How Strong and Blackwood merch at my Threadless shop, thredless.com slash joemagician, of which there will be more coming up eventually.

But yeah, I think that's all the stuff. I think that's all the plugs. I don't really... I guess I might be doing some CK3 stuff. I'm in the open beta for the dragon stuff i may do a video about that and maybe some streams and stuff as we wait for dunk and egg of which i will be absolutely all over dunk and egg is my favorite i want more dunk and egg i want dunk and egg more than i want the winds of winter give me summer hall before dream of spring i'm making that call okay okay so I call. Whoa, okay, okay. So. Wow, you heard it here folks, insane.

Joe Magician would rather George stop writing The Winds of Winter. That's right. And put out the show, Night of the Seven Kingdoms tomorrow. Lord, this reverse psychology. Insane. Strategy. And also give me the village hero and the she-wolves and Winterfell, thank you very much. Which one's the village hero supposed to be?

I only know she-wolves. Which, wait, which one's what? Which one's the village hero supposed to be? I only know she wolves. Which... wait, which one's what? Which one's the village hero? The village hero is speculated to be him going to Penny Tree. Oh, fun. Okay, okay. So Blackwoods and Brackens, hell yeah. Yeah. Cool. I'm excited about that one.

Oh, and that's where... oh, I see. Oh, and they meet and they... That's where they meet. That the black woman- What is this? What is this? I get it. That's sex, Eliana. Sex.

It's Aegon the Fifth. Oh, I did. Thank you so much for- You should have put that in. Gesture correctly. Yeah, that was supposed to be so. Okay, good job. Thank you so much for tuning in to the final episode of Season 2 of Unleash the D episode 5. We have

been Girls Gone Cannon. We can be found online, patreon.com slash girls gone cannon, C-A-N-O-N, for new episodes coming your way. Stay tuned for our A Song of Ice and Fire POV podcast, which will be returning very soon. Now that we are finished up with Unleash the D, we'll be back with Epilogues with our good friend Pat joining us to break down Merit Frey. We'll see you there. As always, I've been one of your hosts, Chloe. Thank you again so much for having me for this series. I've been Eliana from Maester Monthly. We're really honored that you had Maester Monthly on this podcast. We had a great time. Thanks so much for inviting us. Look out for another episode of Maester Monthly. Are we actually, I don't, we're doing it. We're doing this. Okay. We're doing it. We're going to schedule it.

What is it about? What are we covering? The Sopranos. Maybe. Yeah, maybe. Really might be. Mace their monthly about the Cishirranos. Oh my god. Look forward to that on your feeds, folks. Goodbye.