Goes Without Saying - 'dad-bods' v motherhood & the patriarchy: podmas #19

Episode Date: December 19, 2023

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Acast helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com Guys, I'm so embarrassed. Just editing this episode, my audio is fucked. It's not you, it's not your phone, it's not your headphones fucked it's not you it's not your phone it's not your headphones it's me i'm really coming in with my tail between my legs very mortified it's not that bad like we're still putting the episode up so how bad can it be um but just to let you know that there is some weird like crackly feedback coming from my end of this episode and i'm so sorry i hope you can still enjoy it um love you lots bye

welcome back welcome back to podmas day 19 i hear and it's going strong what's behind the door today i don't really know what it is you're gonna have to sum it up surprise it's an strong. What's behind the door? Today, I don't really know what it is. You're going to have to sum it up. Surprise, surprise. It's an image. I can't quite make it out. We don't know what we're doing. We don't know what we're doing. We're going to try and just discuss amongst ourselves the idea of like the TikTok kind

of conversation and just kind of like the desire that we have often as humans to be like, I'm bunny bunny pretty i'm just a cottagecore girl living in a girl math world like all of this bollocks basically we're just going to chat about it in a very harmless and diluted um meaningless way we're not contributing anything valuable we're not fitting into a broader conversation we don't need to be referenced by anything we're just we're just chilling out and um that's what it's going to be that sounds absolutely perfect i love that we're not being referenced i would be very worried if people were referencing us in life well i hate the idea of someone being like so i was listening to this

or like so they kind of stitch a tiktok and it's like doe pretty doe eyes siren eyes whatever blah blah so i was listening to this podcast the other day and they were talking about how tiktok blah blah it's almost like oh no no these aren't my thoughts i know i said i think yeah but i was lying i don't know don't believe me i never know when i came to this microphone and turned it on and started speaking shit please please please whatever you do don't listen no one's listening do not listen whatever you do yeah so we were just kind of talking about an image where we were like siren eyes doe eyes and i think we've also spoken about um god i said spoken spoken about we've also spoken we've also spoken about um the whole thing which we have a bit of a distaste for the like

hibby kibby whatever the fuck it's called what is it yeah kibby yeah kibby body types of like you're a um what even soft natural dramatic you're a natural dramatic or like you're a theatrical blah blah blah it's like theatrical i don't know what they are yeah no i think you're right um you're uh what's the little thing a gamine like all of these things it's like that's a weird one it's crazy yeah um it's not for me personally right now it's not for me and i just also think the things it adds to society if you can find an empowerment in like um having your body type defined i commend you but also i think is that really what society needs a new way for women to label themselves and have their bodies defined by these like external terms which obviously they have weight

to them like some of them obviously have um like connotations of like they fit with our beauty ideals or these are like more outdated or like beauty ideals like they obviously of like they fit with our beauty ideals or these are like more outdated or like beauty ideals like they obviously have um they're quite loaded as well totally i also think what's interesting with kibbe is i think it's quite an old thing that is now like kind of having this resurgence because of tiktok and because um and i you know good for you guys some people are into it but i just think it's interesting like surely the bottom line the crux is always like if everyone's body is unique as like a body is yeah as like as is the nature of humanity i don't think we have enough types it's almost like oh your type is just your your body like oh wings body type is is wings body yeah like it's always

like that's surely the only label we can put on it i don't know but it's just guys love it for you but i love it for you if you find empowerment in it totally but i also think if you look at the tops of the hierarchies in this world you don't see tiktoks going around in the same way in men's spheres of men's body types i can't name other than literally like dad bod so which is still seen as a hot thing i can't really definitely there aren't these types in the same way and they're also not seen as punishing things for men in the same way yeah i also think like just loosely speaking just really generally and like i know this is a huge kind

of generalization but if we're speaking about gender in that way almost like the ways that like women socially are so much more compassionate and like loving it's like oh yeah we we kind of gave the we created dad bod and we made it like an affectionate kind of admirable thing yeah we made it hot we made it something to be happy about blah blah blah i just almost think generally women are so loving and kind and just really generous with like affection and stuff in a way that the world just never repays no never because mum think of the connotations dad bod mum bod do they have the same connotation they're different things google um i remember doing this like maybe halloween 2019 school girl google

school boy and you'll see a nice like uniform he's got his top from morrison's or whatever he's got like trousers whatever little tie maybe school girl and it's kind of like tits yeah it's like oh i'm looking at an arsehole bent over on a desk like it's something completely different yeah um we all know that but here we go anyway well like yeah every single thing is specialized in the world that if you think about dad bod it's like we see it as kind of a hot thing that a guy can kind of it's almost like it gives him a uh almost like a sense of comedy almost that it's like we see it as kind of a hot thing that a guy can kind of it's almost like it gives him a almost like a sense of comedy almost that it's like oh he's kind of a goof he's kind of relatable he's attainable yeah also the idea of what it means for a dad to like do dad activities almost

like mums just do their mum things in a way that it goes without saying like there's this unspoken thing that they are just constantly doing 101 things the minute dad lifts a fucking finger it's round of applause he's quite hot like i saw him the other day picking up his kid yeah oh yeah jesus it's actually outrageous and it's knackering and i'm so bored i'm so bored this is honestly i i do think like i'm gonna have to really work on this with someone if i ever did choose to have kids with a man because i think the nap i i will struggle with a feeling of resentment i think of like every single thing that i do goes unnoticed by society but every tiny thing that they do is almost they're doing me a favor

and that is almost like oh they loaded the dishwasher what a good guy like things things like that will really and just like i think just almost the idea that it's our child most likely will have his surname not on my watch but society says it will have his surname even though i grew it in my body like all of that it fucks me off a bit god there's so much i want to say yeah right first thing i saw a tiktok the other day wish i sent it to you wish i could reference it now um and it was basically this woman who was filming herself like i don't know what she was doing maybe like doing the dish or cooking or something and i think she was maybe pregnant i think she was pregnant so i'm immediately butchering it but i'm sorry yeah yeah this woman

cooking she's pregnant whatever in the background you hear the the man the dad say oh the baby needs its diaper changed and the woman says okay question mark she looks at the camera okay question mark and he goes should i change it she goes yeah obviously and all of the comments are like he was like it's oh it's like why are you asking me i'm i'm loading the dishwasher is she pregnant did you say at the time as well i'm pretty sure she's pregnant she's cooking everybody dinner oh god i can't stand this i can't also then sorry just what you were saying about like you carry this child in in you and they literally load the dishwasher and it's like god let's get all the awards out for this man and the baby has his name and all these blah blah blah but also

the idea that you've just created human life and socially like in a generalized sense your body has never been you're less desirable now yeah you're immediately less desirable and he's more desirable yeah you've sacrificed what an exchange your everything yeah well your everything i physically couldn't have given more i sacrificed literally my vagina for you my perfect angelic divine vagina and i've been through reiterated and i hate to be contributing to an idea that like you're obliterated after you give birth but obviously scientifically your body is changed and in lots of ways the vision of yeah i don't want to be adding to the idea like if anyone's just had a baby that they now feel worthless or whatever that we're saying yeah you are undesirable

not that you are undesirable it's that the idea that you have like given so much with your body and your body now has scientifically changed society now views it in lots of ways and adds all this like horrible um shit like stigma yeah shit to your to your beautiful body that's never been better but if you think that a woman's well the idea of a woman's body is obviously so much more intense than the idea of a man's body like how women view their body is loaded and it's deep and it is just entirely worlds apart from how a man views his body for a woman then to sacrifice that thing for then an pretty much an any an unequal kind of it's not just that pain of giving birth and all the stuff it's like and then the work share is unequal forever the just everything oh actually

i feel very very concerned yeah no it's a little bit concerning i don't know how i'm gonna ever do it um no in a way that feels right for me really like i have i've yet to ever see it i don't care so i feel like as a kid i was raised by very strong women and they really was like letting me know every day that like you need like if you're gonna be with a man one day you need to make sure that he is doing everything like yeah don't lift a finger and i think that went in a little too deep because i almost can only function in life i think me and my boyfriend like are pretty comfortable with the idea that just in this um kind of the imbalance of this world we can only function in

a relationship if we know that he is contributing more than me yeah because then it's still the same we are equal yeah right yeah we are only equal if i know that you're picking up slack that i don't have to because you know that this world is made for you in a way that it isn't made for me and you're naturally picking up slack just in the way you move around whereas they're not totally totally like okay yeah you can like um do whatever x do x y and z for me and not in like a way that it's like oh you need lots of praise but almost you can do x y and z for me just because you know that like you can go and walk the dog tonight without fearing for your life in the same way like it's just small things like

why is the default that the dishwasher is my job the deep if i do it not around here if i do it i'm doing my job if you do it you're helping me yeah no what's that no i that is just i maybe just i just couldn't be in a relationship with that with a man if that was how it was gonna be i just couldn't no absolutely not no i get it but i get that that's like not realistic or whatever but like it is realistic because i'm in well that is actually good to know because i think i look i think they are out there the men are men are out there where they know if you find an intelligent young man um they're not like i i do actually think like them there are good people out there

there are no they're not they're undeniably clever yeah there are good people out there. There are. No, there are. There undeniably are. Yeah, there are clever people out there who get it. I think I still am scared that I'm going to feel the resentment of just all the tiny unnoticed ways that it's like, I can't even begin to explain to you the ways in which there is just, I am just picking up more slack. It's not in the ways that you even see. No, it's not a physical it's not about doing the dishwasher it's about like what emotionally it takes for me to wake up in this world do you know honestly just to wake up look around open my eyes be confronted with a few adverts like listen to the radio like constantly being told

something that you will never actually hear i think especially in terms of having a baby it's like for us to go in you view it as an equal decision like we're having a baby together they have sex that's all they have to do really you go through this time where most likely they'll come you won't most likely looking at stats acas powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. Nature. I've got a gay rooster named Francois.

Is so gay. These rams are gay. I'm studying gay animals. Does that mean I'm gay? So why don't more people know this? I'm Owen Ever. I'm Lane Kaplan-Levinson. And this is a field guide to gay animals.

A podcast about queerness in the natural world. The animal kingdom is queer and we are a part. Find a field guide to gay animals on Spotify, Apple. Or wherever you get your podcasts. get your podcasts. Acast helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com. They have to have an orgasm. It's very much all they have to do. You have to go through this insane kind of destruction and like recreation of self breathing a new fucking life every day every day and then care for this child and

god if it's a daughter the stuff that goes into that like oh my goodness jesus it's huge and it's not and then i just think it's crazy to be it's our child it's like but the level of sacrifice and most likely i mean if you ever were to split up with the father of your child who will be doing the literal lion's share of that work it will be women doing the labor for that man to still then have that child be his child like it is so unequal but the way that society views it as oh two parents had a child it's like it's kind of patriarchal language like that isn't really what happened i think as well like the only way tangibly you could make that work in your life is if you are having a baby with someone and it's like okay we are a team it can't be like me versus you it has to be me and you versus like this ugly setup of the world like yeah you have to be so um kind of intrinsically on the same page and aware of

so aware going on totally because i think also like um maybe that is a lot to ask because there's also such a um comfort in the ignorance of being able to exist with that level of privilege of like not having to even think about all of the ways that you're benefiting from someone else picking up the slack yeah yeah but i do think and i know when you are in like a good an actual partnership with somebody you're being heard out and almost like you don't even have to say things they're just on the same i think that's the bit i don't have much faith in at the moment that i i will need to be shown that in quite a in quite a real way to believe that i imagine as well like with having a baby as well surely you're

that's something you're working at every day it's like you probably are not going to meet someone and you immediately are like reading each other's inner workings and they can anticipate your every move and know what they need to do and all of these things and immediately feel good about doing it i think it's like a shared commitment and like working at something all the time of like learning from each other and and that's what it should be and that yeah that sounds nice i just yeah yeah i think that's the only way i also think um kind of if the crux hopefully or like the a way that i can understand it in my life is if the crux would be i'm looking at someone they're looking at me we're thinking let's do it we want to create life out of the combination of us two yeah we love each other the world needs more of it let's bring

in some sort of shared thing yeah it's us together that's so cool can't wait let's do that the only way that can happen is with the understanding that we are both committing to something as a team I think like if I'm on a team with someone and i know that they're dealing with x y and z and a b and c i am naturally going to accommodate that whereas i feel like the understanding that we have and what we've been shown is that when men know that women are dealing with a b and c and x y and z they feel quite good letting you get on with it and that to me is like letting you get on with it and that to me is like well you're not a team then because if you were actually on a team you would

feel compelled naturally yeah you would actually want to help you would want to make that person's life easier have you seen that film the breakup with jennifer aniston vince fawn i probably have but not for many many many years they get in a big scrap because she's like i told you to get lemons i want you to help me do the dishes and he's like all right fine like i'll get up and do the dishes and she's like no i want you to want to do the dishes and he's like why would i want to do the dishes and she's like because i want you to want to help me i want you to want to do the dishes i don't want to have to tell you please do the dishes i want you to wake up and think i want to make this woman's life easier and also why are the but also why are the dishes her job why is that making no

totally why is that the but when she does that the default yeah when she does it it's not her making his life easier it's just there are dishes there and she will do them i think as well that comes down to the ways that we um like almost like categorize and like validate and like place value on different types of work so like even like historically and traditionally if a man is going out and like slaying a bear and finding us food love that delish can't wait he's defying slayed a bear this morning and the woman is essentially doing literally everything else under the sun we value what he's doing as like work hard work he's working hard come home put your feet up etc we don't necessarily inherently and socially value what that woman is doing as work we just consider it as her her role as a woman

we just consider it as life she sat at home all day with the kids she sat or whatever blah blah we don't place the same level of value on it and that's why i think when we think oh yeah the woman just doing the dishes we don't even think about it because she's just doing the dishes as she should whereas a man is like god he's giving some look at him bringing home bread and bacon and now he wants to do the dishes oh is there anything this man can't do but also the jobs that we give to men often allow them to like develop skills and like build their idea of themselves like if he goes out and slays a bear or whatever or um runs a meeting in his room like the meeting room or whatever he's doing things he's growing and he's moving up in the world but women are often given jobs where i mean you can't really get that much better at washing the dishes like everyone can do that they're always given jobs like hoovering or like

even looking after the children or all of this like domestic work that isn't seen as work it doesn't actually there's no um growth in that really and even if there is minor growth that you get better at cooking it's still not valued as high as the guy that whatever his job is there's development there's more money there's more access there's more people it's there's social capital there's huge inequality that grows when you start to give men and women who started off having a child whatever at the same level if you they start to do their jobs in those in those realms domestic and kind of public spheres a huge gap actually breeds between them because one has developed their skills and the expectation that this woman is gonna just the only person she's to speak to all day is a fucking toddler yeah it's so such an isolating and lonely expectation placed on women to just solely exist and that's the always for

other people but that's the bit that i think has the resentment that then the guy can go out and do all of this stuff and he comes back and that kid is equally his that is his son or whatever that is his son but you have sacrificed not only your body but your life and all of the stuff we're talking in like traditional terms of a woman staying at high school but you've sacrificed all of this stuff he's actually gone out and had a whole life really nothing has changed he had an orgasm pretty much the only thing he had to do towards that and maybe like go and buy a cot this is killing my vibe but then it's still the same it's still

that's still and we kind of agree in society that that is an equal that's their child together totally i just think um it couldn't be me no and i don't think it has to be us i actually don't know i don't think it has to be anyone i don't think it has to be i think if anyone finds themselves in that situation where they're feeling oh god i can't even put into words just like not seen not validated not loved not valued um if you feel like a shell of yourself and you're in the company of someone who you feel like is not valuing you i hope you're at least finding solace with us yeah we're holding your hand right now we're giving you so much love we really are i hope you have people in your life who you can like send a text to and be like oh my god amy i know i haven't spoken to

you in ages but this kid is doing my nut in like yeah please call me anything i hope you have people in your life that can give you a bit of um normality and like appreciation for who you are because you're so much more than like what you give to other people yeah and and i hope you know that this person isn't the be-all and end-all of your life and that there's more out there for you and if you're not happy with somebody please i hope you feel like confident to they have the strength to leave the things that you deserve yeah it's this stuff isn't new this stuff isn't like um you're alone in it and it's all kind of fucking blah blah it's actually like this stuff is has been studied like this is actually like a societal huge issue it's manageable that no one no one on their own could ever solve this

it's just i think like women gain strength as like a collective the more informed they are about all of this stuff like this stuff isn't new it's been building and building for like centuries and like there have been literal so many texts written on the like division of labor within like men and women and kids and all of this stuff i think the more you know before you get into this stuff like we're young guys we're young like we even if you have kids and all of this stuff it's like we're so fucking young all of us that we can we've got time to sort this shit out and you're so um valued like you're so you are yeah you're so loved you're so loved you're so loved but you're so loved we love you yeah the most in the world this is hardly a jingle Jingle Bells episode, is it? But.

It's not. We didn't talk about doe eyes and siren eyes. what was it supposed to be? It was supposed to be more about like, girl math, labels. Yeah, we just went off on one.

So I'm sorry about that. Maybe we'll get back to that. Yeah, we'll get back to doe eyes. And we just had to get this off our chest. Yeah, clearly we did. God.

I had something to say. Honestly, just something to say. I just, I don't want to leave them feeling like i i kind of i just i'm thinking about like women in the kitchen i know also like i i want to be there with you guys in the kitchen i actually work in a kitchen at the moment like i am washing up and i am making coffees i'm doing that stuff all day and i do often think like about women's skills

and all that stuff whilst i'm doing it and but i also think there's so much community in those spaces as well like someone was saying in there the other day she was like because it's loads of women cooking together which also is an incredible environment it really is and like there is no environment i value more than women talking amongst themselves like freely and someone actually said the other day they were like someone started talking about an addiction issue they'd had in the past and they were like oh sorry i'm oversharing and someone said you'd be surprised what people feel comfortable to share in here and it's so true because i'm always just like listening and absorbing all of these women talking and they're of all ages there's like an 85 year old that comes in there's young teenage girls there's everyone that comes in there and the things that women share in the company of other women whilst we're doing this like undervalued labor it is incredible actually and i do think

it's probably the most um any environment you can get in where it's women talking freely in a zone they feel comfortable in even if the zone is service which i just test um just women women let's end it as we always do women women women women as nuns women in prison women women women nothing better in this world goosebumps goosebumps that's like making less and less sense the further we get away from that yeah we basically we had a tarot reading and she spent like six minutes saying women the word women and it's on our instagram sephian wings you can watch it i even cut out a lot of the women's stuff but it's still pretty long anyway anyway women if you don't hear from us assume we slayed too hard