Goes Without Saying - finding ‘real’ relationships: ur fomo left the chat

Episode Date: April 19, 2021

not you meeting up with people you don't like just to avoid your own company! sephy & wing (& jim) are back with another stunning episode of Goes Without Saying, and this week we're discussing the fear of missing out. we promised you a fomo episode, so we're not holding back. we're chatting about how to form genuine relationships that aren't built on ego and performance. from anxiety around acquaintances to balancing communication in ride or die friendships, we're learning to let go of expectations and accept that we are the authorities of our own lives. join the conversation every monday! you are invited to our discord group chat: https://discord.gg/bZ6WtARJWx speak your mind on the @sephyandwing instagram! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. Nature. I've got a gay rooster named Francois. Is so gay. These rams are gay. I'm studying gay animals. Does that mean I'm gay?

So why don't more people know this? I'm Owen Ever. I'm Lane Kaplan-Levinson. And this is a field guide to gay animals. A podcast about queerness in the natural world. The animal kingdom is queer and we are a part. Find a field guide to gay animals on Spotify, Apple. Or wherever you get your podcasts.

Acast helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com It goes without saying that you're back for another episode of Goes Without Saying with Sefi and Wing. I'm Sefi. And I'm Wing. I'm so happy to be here. Absolutely delighted to be here. Absolutely delighted to be here. Today we're talking, it is the FOMO episode that we promised, promised, promised. Oh my god,

the infamous. The infamous FOMO episode that we just say, we don't really have FOMO but we don't do that in this one. We actually go in, we're talking about meaningful relationships, friendships, actually how to not feel like you're the outsider on life and that you're actually included. And also we have some big, big news that the Discord is out and about. Available, yay! We can all talk. We've got a big group chat now. Well, by the time you hear this, it will be out and about, hopefully. But actually we haven't, I haven't looked into it at all, I'm not gonna lie, so I need to sort that out. But by the you're hearing this but as far as you're concerned we'll be in constant stream of communication

so we'll see you there in the giant group chat pause the episode now go to discord go to our instagram we'll be probably going on about it go there click on the link

come back to this and then you can talk we can talk all about friends relationships and stuff and stuff honestly nothing else I'd rather talk about

and some of I don't really know I can't remember. We just spoke about it, I can't remember. Thank you so much to Harry Styles for featuring in this episode. So excited for him to be our first guest on Goes Without Saying. He'll be here any minute now.

Any minute now he'll be here. Stay tuned. It feels weird because we're recording on a Monday. On a Monday afternoon. So the episode has just come out and I'm kind of still in the mood of i've just kind of come out as autistic to the whole world and now it's like i'm kind of we're getting some messages in being like we're getting a lot of messages that the end saying

please don't feel like you have to reply to this and i'm like oh god what have i done now they all feel like we're bugging that they're bugging us fuck they all think we hate fucked it and i'm suddenly the spokeswoman on something i know nothing about yeah so please don't call me brave i literally don't know what i'm on about what the fuck have we done you know what it is every monday we come just try something on see if it fits we'll try something new next week it's okay and oh how the shoe fits the shoes are fitting like a glove cinderella's little glass slipper quite funny the shoes fit like a glove they don't fit kind of just maybe the gloves fit like a glove the shoes fit like a glove it's like why are you putting the shoes on your hands walk around on all fours so it feels weird because i feel like i'm still in the energy of kind of

last week's quite sincere um and very honest episode and suddenly it's like i'm in quite a manic mood today but i'm kind of still in the energy how's your week being wing i don't really know you know what i'm not really thinking in weeks at the moment i'm kind of just life is just a blur it's just moment by moment she's so wholesome living in the moment it's just washing right over me yeah i agree i mean to update on last week i'm really i'm crossing my t's and dotting my eyes of course yeah i can see the light at the end of the tunnel yeah so i'm just i'm just powering through honestly feeling feeling all right i said to my boyfriend the other day i just this is how bizarre it is to be in my

mind i said i'm just not i just hate myself i just hate myself an hour later i was like i have never been killed in a game of fuck marry kill oh oh no yeah but like i mean you can't see i'm being dead serious yeah right now who's killed me i don't see it unless now i get like i'm being put against like fucking kendall jenner fine whatever but realistically if you've killed me it was begrudgingly like you did want to at least fuck me 20 minutes later i hate myself i just think at least well no one really plays but i guess no one plays it anymore i have a great game called sex point sex but it's a good net it's kind of i want to play it's suddenly you're playing sex point yeah it's basically so so i would give you someone and it's if you're in a coronavirus pandemic with someone,

you're in lockdown, it's just you and them in a house together. You don't really leave. It's lockdown times. What is your point in which you have sex? What's your sex point? So for example, if I gave you,

you and Jamie Dornan, it would be about five minutes. If that. Yeah. Honestly, he walks through the door. I almost don't even want to say it because it's too

real like he has a wife and kids like he gets pestered so much his dad just passed away like god you know way too much i know too much the problem we were kind of i think we said this in a previous episode that didn't i think we cut this bit out but we were talking about i'm not gonna say who but it wasn't jamie dawn and it was a big celeb and we were saying why is it that like his wife dying just makes him hotter we did cut this out big time we cut this because we were kind of making the joke of like god that poor a woman has died yeah and it makes a man hotter like what kind of joke is that oh my god he's so sensitive and it benefits the man because it gives him some emotional depth yeah yeah are you joking a fucking scam we're honestly idiots under this patriarchy we've all become dumb yeah but for example your who would what would your sex point be with um

let me think of someone that's relevant why is the only person that's coming to my head joe exotic the least relevant person of all time i don't i don't have i don't have a sex point with him i think it's more of a death point no but you're not leaving the house it would be like 10 years maybe yeah no longer longer i'm really because i've been watching the louis through thing i thought it was really boring i know i know and we were my boyfriend and i were kind of saying that like is it kind of what is this what's the point but the point for us is kind of it just feels like his voice just cocoons us like it's kind of the point is i'll do anything to listen to him speak before bed the point is if he's on my screen i'm watching absolutely what's your sex point with louis three then honestly sex point two second two seconds flat two seconds flat

flat what about you what's your sex point oh yeah one second one second i know that's the problem with saying two you still have someone that can beat you no i mean he's married his first wife died fuck we've given away who it was the reason that that didn't go in also is quite a funny reason this was months ago that almost went in an episode and sephi texted me saying i have to cut this bit out because it essentially ruins her chances of ever actually getting with him in real life if his second wife dives touching wood touch wood that she doesn't look we don't want this for you and also i'm always 100 i'm on the wife's team always like it doesn't matter who you are jamie dawn and i'm an amelia warner stan

it doesn't matter who you are louiseroux I'm always here for the wife it's just a problem that it's a patriarchal problem I think what we were saying was that it's a problem that we're so desperate for some emotional depth in a man yeah the wife their wife a woman has to die for them and it just takes them up a level it's like you're kidding me you're kidding me that we think this yeah it's like the worst thing possible happens to you and it just makes you hotter. Yeah. So that's quite interesting.

So if say, who's like a hot married woman? Emily Blunt? Emily Blunt. Of course, Emily Blunt. Say John Krasinski dies, RIP. Oh God. Touch wood, everyone. Jim.

Doesn't make her hotter, does it? Makes her a widow. Sorry. Would it make Emily Blunt hotter? No, because the patriarchy then makes her this sad widow well it's not hot to be a widow you're miss havisham yeah exactly and you're kind of expected to never never look at a man again yeah but john krasinski is getting all of the love at that point is he's getting all the love as we speak there's someone sending a nude in john krasinski's dms for sure yeah for sure for sure

wow that was a pleasant start to the episode shout out to louis theroux i do think i'll marry my choices are elon musk louis theroux and i had a really other one the other day as well can i say james acaster oh yeah obvious but again we're not ruining your chances with him either because i think that is a very very viable option don't tempt me but the fact that i'm saying it i think i'm his type no that's what i know that it's too real it's too real yeah yeah almost will this go in because i don't want elon is like yeah i don't really want that louis i don't want that for you james oh it's too much james i can't lie i do want that i'm not gonna lie you are fit you'd be great together i know we would that's the problem that's the problem yeah no look it's kind of it's kind of killing me let's not well anyway

how are you let us know send us a message we'd love to know what's going on with you are you on a walk are you in the bath are you doing some uni work where are you what's going on with you you're playing on your ds someone just sent us they were listening to us whilst playing animal crossing on their ds animal crossing wild world that would be so vintage was it wild world i assume so it's a ds could be new leaf new leaf i was thinking interesting yeah i guess we'll never know well we could find out but i guess we'll never know we can look at the post again we can just look at it okay today we kind of wanted to talk about we're kind of struggling to find the in angle on this we spoke before about how we fucked up the FOMO episode by spending an hour being like we don't

get FOMO here's why not very useful just kind of felt a bit like not forced but we've just got high standards for these episodes which you probably wouldn't believe for the shit that comes out in them but anyway so I guess we're gonna have a very authentic chat about i think this feels authentic to me is is wanting to feel like you have a connection with people yeah wanting to feel valued right yeah as much as you can have all of the self-worth and you can be very self-aware and all of those things you can love your own company and god are we great company it's a human thing we do you do desire to feel a sense of belonging so let's get into that shall we shall we do it would you care to join us shall we we shall so when i think about where i am right now with friendships and relationships and feeling like i've got to slot back in somehow

is that i think i've got so used to being alone in some way or with my specific best friends and my specific family my closest people to me that i don't know how i'm going to cope with acquaintances again i almost think like the idea of going to a party and there's an acquaintance there or being in a smoking area i don't smoke just gonna i'll be standing in the smoking area she's always in that smoke yeah though i might socially smoke i don't smoke it's fine if you do honestly we don't care well it's honestly fine no one came for you it's fine i'm standing in a smoking area you have a conversation with some random person i think i don't know how i'm gonna cope with those kind of um situations kind of maintaining your friendships with the people that you're just

friends with like quote unquote friends you're just friends it's fine they're not your best friends you can live without them they're just your friends why do you think that is can i can i can i say why oh no go i just think i'm over it but what do you think well that's what i was gonna say is i kind of feel like same i feel like i've realized and my boyfriend and i were kind of talking about this having a big convo about it i feel like I've got to a point where I've kind of lost my patience. Yeah, yeah. With people. Totally. Or with like trying to stay face with people or trying to like keep up appearances. Trying to explain yourself. Trying to justify things, exactly. I kind of just feel a bit over it and I'm also trying to figure out in my head of like what's good and what's bad about

that yeah because there are downsides of it absolutely that's the thing it's like are they are the downsides worth it well it's kind of is the is the fomo real is it kind of would you rather be included just so then you're not on your own or whatever yeah did we just say that we spent the whole fomo episode saying that we don't get fomo well we spent the whole FOMO episode saying that we don't get FOMO? Well, we spent the whole FOMO episode saying we don't get FOMO, which is why we're revisiting it and kind of trying to make it a bit more worthwhile for everybody. Because we don't get FOMO. But I don't want to be someone that doesn't really have patience for people. It's not nice. But then also, I don't really have patience for people. It's kind of the classic Twitter thing of, it's self care, it's boundaries, just like twitter thing of um it's self-care it's

boundaries just like get rid of everybody like everyone's fucked like everyone's a cunt you don't need them blah blah blah but it's like but do you want them around maybe and also do you believe that yeah i don't think in my heart i believe that because i think in my kind of in my daily life i'm looking around and i can just see a load of cunts i'm like don't want to be friends with you don't want to hang out with you get out of my fucking sight don't open your mouth to me that's kind of in my daily life i'm looking around and i can just see a load of cunts i'm like don't want to be friends with you don't hang out with you get out of my fucking sight don't open your mouth to me that's kind of what i think when i look around a lot of people not everyone but i do sometimes think just please i'm like wing shut your mouth no never never people i'm friends with this is why i have a very select group of friends almost because i think most people irritate me but then when i strip it down i'm like what do i actually believe yeah do i believe you've got nothing to say or do i just

see no worth in talking to you which that is just my perspective that i'm kind of pushing it on it's like well you can't teach me anything so i don't want to talk to you or like i can't i don't like that thing you once said you once said you're a fucking you voted tory so i'm never gonna speak to you again sort of thing yeah and actually it's like maybe i can learn from you maybe i actually can learn from you and i need to be more open and if someone says that they like fox hunting maybe i should have a conversation with them but in my mind i'm like don't ever fucking look in my direction again you can't it's yeah where do we draw the line with this like protect your energy stuff it's hard i guess it is it just dependent on the is it just completely situational of like if on the day you've got some energy to spare then feel free spend it all but kind of if you're not

in the mood then fuck off then you're not in the mood yeah maybe it doesn't have to be much deeper than that i guess and is it just kind of the whole discourse and the whole like self-care rhetoric that makes makes us feel like we have to have a concrete way of living how do you think your relationships have changed over the pandemic because we got a message that i really liked someone said well i mean i hate it for them but like i really like it um they said they've been feeling left out the entire pandemic to be honest i'm feeling extremely disconnected and i just i thought that was interesting how do you think the pandemic has affected your like relationships and your sense of being connected yeah i was

gonna say i hate to be annoying after hearing that message but i feel the complete opposite like i hate yeah god okay well how does it feel to be god's favorite flex on us but i feel like everything's got smaller like everything's stripped down and i have obviously much less social interaction but i almost feel like it realigned my priorities to rather than it's like oh my god but what did that person in that social situation think of me or like oh but i could maybe like make that person in the smoking area talk to me a bit longer and like me if i just straighten my hair for two minutes more sort of thing yeah um but actually i think it stripped things down.

It's like I have a much deeper connection with the people that actually mean something to me. And I think it has meant that I've lost people on the way. Have you? I feel like I have lost people on the way, but the people that don't mean shit. But like, it's not like I'm losing my key people, but it's almost like-

Left, right and centre, yeah. This is the last podcast you'll hear from us. Yeah, it's almost like right in center yeah this is the last podcast you'll hear from us yeah it's not that it's like the peripheral people as my worldview narrows down to what i'm interested in the people i want to spend my time and energy with the people that are peripheral just fall away naturally and not in a bad way just i have no interest in persevering with a lot of people anymore just for the sake of persevering yeah what do you think i completely i completely completely completely agree with you as usual what's new i i was gonna say i feel like during the pandemic i've been able to shed a lot of the interactions like the social interactions that just are vapid fucking boring yeah or just or

just like fake like i know you don't want to talk to me and i know i don't want to talk to you so but yeah here we are we're going along with it for some reason awful literally the pits the pits the pits honestly the pits those conversations are the fucking pit i think i'm quite bad because i i think i've said this before i just i dip out very easily like i you know how some people most people i think feel the duty of like no we should show up or like no we should talk to them or i should make an effort i should call them i think i missed the memo i didn't get the assignment and i just disappear i'm very absent very i get very absent very easily which i think has its

pros and cons but i think during the pandemic and i was gonna say to you do you think you've been able to have stronger connections or like keep the connections strong that you have now is that because your connection with yourself is stronger oh that's interesting yes and no because i feel like in the early pandemic nostalgic times there was a huge emphasis on like staying connected on we're all in this together so let's stay connected let's zoom let's zoom let's zoom and it's kind of like i actually wouldn't be speaking to you anyway like if i wouldn't be meeting you fucking once a week yeah this is more than we're speaking anyway crazy yeah so i think that's partly due to those social things but then i just think my relationship with myself has completely changed over the last year

just completely yeah but then weird things like we haven't seen each other in a year in over a year now over a year our relationship has never felt deeper i had a dream last night i told wing this last yeah well just now i had a dream about her last night that we hugged i don't hug people by the way you'll be hugging me i tell you now we hugged and we were so close it was skin to skin and we could feel our hearts kind of beating on top of each other we were breastfeeding real skin to skin contact moment it's like we were breastfeeding each other it's weird shit like that it's like i feel like my relationship with you is insanely deep and that's partially only

because we both have been doing individual work whilst whilst this thing has been kind of spiraling out of control together i agree i do think in part my relationship with you has probably made my judgment of not necessarily other people but other relationships more harsh same yeah just because we have such we go on and on about how communication is so important. We're not lying. Like, no, no, this is so deep, because it's so real. Like whether or not we come to the podcast with a performance, no matter what, she's crying. But kind of, it's just, there's no room for airs and graces, which is, and I think I just, I have that in life anyway. So when I'm putting out the energy of like no

airs and graces but I'm being met with all of the airs and all of the graces whatever that means by the way no idea honestly can't move for airs and graces there's honestly no air in this fucking room yeah I've lost my patience I get a bit frustrated when I'm trying to be very real and it's not the energy is not being matched I think that frustrates me not that I'm perfect by the way like I'm trying to be very real and it's not the energy is not being matched I think that frustrates me not that I'm perfect by the way like I'm kind of the worst but I just I'm not here for a fake time no but it's because we're openly the worst well I've said to you before there's nothing you could say to me because there have been like even like I won't go into detail but I remember you being so upset like oh my I'm so you were really apologizing for something and i was like there is nothing you could say to me or do there is

nothing you could do that we couldn't talk ourselves out of get ourselves through there's just nothing that could happen yeah that we couldn't get through because i'm committed to the honesty and i'm committed to the relationship honestly and i'm committed to the fuck ups yeah i'm so committed to the fuck ups and and also i think i don't feel that with so honestly and i'm committed to the fuck ups yeah i'm so committed to the fuck ups and and also i think i don't feel that with so many people i'm not committed to their fuck ups yeah yeah so true the amount that you and the people close in my life could fuck up and hurt me is quite scary how much i would put up with it's like god i mean there are some people that it's like one fuck up and they're out yeah no actually you're

not worth the convo which is so harsh because they are worth the convo to so many other people but just not to me but not to you not where it matters just not to me to me you're a piece of shit but i'm sure someone out there really likes you just from my perspective just from my fucking hate your guts you're not worth two seconds of my fucking time. Also, the conversations we've been having and the conversations you have been having in you, Harry, I'm speaking to you. With us.

With us in this podcast as well. I think they've moved my marker of what is a good convo so high up the chain that unless people are literally talking about their fucking ancestral trauma and the time that their boyfriend fucking yeah stealth them and shit like i'm not interested in the convo unless it's literally like yeah but i think now when i talk to someone about it's unfulfilling something i don't know toxic positivity so i don't give a shit what your

thoughts are let me text wing and see what she thinks i mean yeah it's so fucking true i feel like i'm going between the thing i said in the other episode as well i'm feeling like oh you know you're deserving you're deserving which i 100% stand by you're deserving of good things and amazing people and amazing conversations and strong relationships you are deserving of that then the other part of me is like, is that unrealistic? But it's like, well, you would say that, wouldn't you? You would say it's unrealistic because you think you're undeserving. But like, is it unrealistic to want good things? I don't know. No. Well, it might not happen, but I don't think it's unrealistic to want good things. I think you can never get good things, but always be thinking i i do deserve that it's unfortunate that's not comforting yeah unfortunate that i never received everything i deserve i think

that's kind of it's like you deserve complete happiness in life i know that won't happen in life because that is unrealistic yeah but you know that you're a good person you inherently deserve that it's unfortunate and it's i'm sorry that life is shit and realistically you are gonna have to go work in a place you don't want to have to work and you are going to get your heart broken by some absolute fuck up of a guy and you are gonna um get be scared walking home from the fucking bus stop at 7 p.m because the world is shit but you don't deserve any of that that doesn't that shouldn't be happening to you yeah you are a good person so how do we work with what we're being dealt is it is it completely situational or do you have any like rules or

red flags or like things that you do you know what i mean do you have any set boundaries that can't be crossed or no you're an open book you're looking at me blank face like what's the boundary no i'm thinking about my rules okay because you said rules and you know that i have two strong rules i live my life by they don't actually work in this context at all. No, they're completely irrelevant. Yeah, go on, spill them anyway. I think we've been through them before. I'm always down to go over them.

Number one rule. Why I was thinking about this is because I was trying not to break my number one rule last night. Number one rule is do not try and solve your problems at night. Solve your problems at night. What was going on last night? You were trying to have a cuddle with me and you couldn't. I was just like trying to solve. I just woke up at like 1am like, right, let's solve some shit here.

Let's analyse this life. I get that. Second rule. Number two rule is the key rule that don't fantasise about people you know. Broken every day. Yeah. But anyway. Every day and every night.

Don't get this started on the night yeah but those are my rules but i don't have any boundaries do what you fucking want to me i'm just not allowed to fantasize about you i'm joking what about you i don't know i'm figuring it out i was saying to my boyfriend the other day i think i'm happy that i've got to a place where i do have a very strong well not even a strong like self-worth but i've got some self-worth yeah which is finally great um i think i have some some self-worth i think i might have some by now not an abundance can't tell you how much but some some yeah some i think there might be some in here

acas powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. Nature. I've got a gay rooster named Francois. Is so gay. These rams are gay. I'm studying gay animals. Does that mean I'm gay?

So why don't more people know this? I'm Owen Ever. I'm Lane Kaplan-Levinson, and this is a field guide to gay animals. A podcast about queerness in the natural world. The animal kingdom is queer, and we are a part. Find a field guide to gay animals on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts. Acast helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com. Someone actually sent us a really nice message earlier. Really nice saying like, you know, we're going to continue to evolve and that means people get left behind and things like that i guess it's like the age-old thing of just like yeah as you

grow and you change things get left behind like if you're not going to grow and also it's kind of you can't assume you're going to grow in parallel as well yeah but it kind of is that thing of sometimes relationships are completely situationships they are completely like circumstantial a situation friendship yeah i think this and i don't think that's bad no it's only bad when there's an imbalance go on there are levels of friendship and the only way they get hurt i think is when you're on different pages if one of you is thinking oh we're best friends and the other one's thinking oh no i'm friends with you because we both work in the same place but once i quit this job i'm probably not going

to text you yeah that's when they get dangerous but i think if you both have an awareness of we're friends but it's because um because we run a podcast together yeah we're friends because we started a podcast and that's the only reason we're friends if you both have an awareness of that it's fine but if there's one of you thinking i'm in this for life there's one of you having dreams that your hearts are touching and i'm not beating to each other and the other one's thinking what a fucking nutter nah like let's wait for this podcast thing blows over yeah blows over fizzles out well i also think even if you're both thinking yeah this is my best friend for life maybe your communication styles right now aren't compatible

because i think no matter sometimes no matter what i mean maybe we're lucky in that like you can say something i'll understand what you're saying sometimes i feel like i could say something in a million different ways and the person still hasn't got through i mean if you're listening to this maybe you're in the group of people that get you're in we're in the same boat together sephie wing and you together but there are probably i'm not even it's not probable it's it's definite the amount of people that come onto this podcast because their friends recommended it they listen to the first 30 seconds they're like what the fuck turn it off because it's just it's not

compatible and i guess that's the beauty of life you're not supposed to be compatible with everyone but yeah we're still so desperate to be liked i think that's so fucking true because do you ever meet people in your life where you try and have a conversation and you're just on off rhythms? Like one of you will be like, hey, sorry, sorry, go on. No, I don't know, go on. What were you going to say?

No, no, it's nothing. It's literally like that for hours. It's unbearable. Oh, I can't fucking communicate with you. And you're a nice person, but we're not, we're on different rhythms. Yeah, on different rhythms, 100%. different rhythms 100 i mean even in my close relationships sephie i know we've had days where it's like oh our wires are getting crossed

i have it with my boyfriend sometimes where it's like our wires are getting crossed today and that's fine but sometimes yeah it's literally just like it's like the opposite is it opposite ends of a magnet or is it the same end of a magnet they're just completely pushing apart it's like you just reject one another yeah you're completely repelling they're a repellent to you or maybe we this podcast is a repellent to them to you and it should be there should be some people where you're just like nope not for me not for me 100 because then when you find the people that you do click it's like fuck okay wow like that's amazing and hopefully this is what the podcast is for you where it's like oh my god like we do think the same i do get it i do get it when they say

fucking um nobody's coming harry nobody's coming harry you think oh wow that clicks but i also i hope you have people like that in your real life not that i'm not in your real life right now this is very much real it's just it's just weird isn't it i think especially in your early 20s i think when everyone's changing and growing and trying to they have no idea who they are it's kind of hard to hold a relationship down when neither of you how do you know what you're signing up for when you don't even know what you're offering and you're desperate for an identity you're literally trying to cling to any old bit of garbage you can find garbage scrap have i been watching the simpsons or something garbage the only american show i

could think of the simpsons the simpsons the simpsons awful no wonder people don't want to listen just what the fuck your communication style might not fit the simpsons like no you better fucking hope it doesn't match ours because this is nuts you might be what was i even saying um something about garbage next point i don't know what that was where that was going you'll know that's it you're trying you're you're so desperate to find some kind of identity that first of all you'll try and find in a boyfriend you'll try and find in your job you'll try and find it in any kind of hobby you have it's like oh my god i've just taken up um dancing zumba dancing i'm now a zumba girl and then no wonder your friend is like right i can't really relate to you because you're

just dying for a thing and whilst you're doing your zumba thing they're also desperate for an identity so they've just come out as gay and they're like right i'm gay i'm gay i'm gay this is the only thing i'm going to throw myself in or they've just become vegetarian and they're like okay it's my whole new thing it's kind of not a thing anymore is it which one being gay zumba said no one ever um no being like well being vegan is a thing but kind of i'm i'm happy to see the like die hard militant vegan thing dying out and it just becoming more and more flexible with every day that the greg sausage rolls are still going out militant vegans are just dying out because it's coming more mainstream which is yeah they haven't got enough protein they're just dying out one by one they're dropping off but i think that's the thing you're you're both desperate to find

yourself in external things that no wonder you sometimes don't align with people because it's like if you actually met on like a soul level yeah some kind of human level maybe let's make it less spiritual you meet on some human level and you can see you're both humans that are trying and struggling in this world you can communicate but it's because someone has identified as um point a and someone's identified as point b and then you're both kind of clinging to those one of you's like i'm a dentist and the other one's like but i'm a fucking singer and it's like well then you can't communicate then you're then it's like 100 you're coming from such separate angles well i also think with social media and just where we are with society at the moment everything works in it's very binary it's as you

said earlier if you voted tory at one point in your life you're not my mate like i we have we don't really have the time of day for nuance or like the complexity of like what it is to be human and i think it means we write people off very quickly because we are judging them by this identity that we're all obsessed with identity social media and presenting a certain image of ourselves it becomes very flat yeah it's a very flat one-dimensional um caricature of of that person the reality of it is so much more complex and nuanced and so much more interesting honestly but we don't ever really afford each other the conversations because we're too busy trying to protect our own identity too busy being defensive of like our own flaws and

too um i think too like consumed or preoccupied with how we're coming across and what doesn't doesn't fit in with our brand and reputation that's the thing because it's like how much do you actually care that they voted tory or how much does it not align with your identity as a liberal person yeah to not be friends with people that vote tory well you heard a load of jokes being made about tories and then you just took it on as your own personality is that but you don't have you ever read a manifesto probably not do you know where to find a manifesto like literally do you know like anything you're not really yeah no one yeah do you know anything about the chamber of secrets no can you oh yes can you tell me no damn but i can show you and then he goes oh come on bitch i'll show you shivers so there was a message that

i really liked that we actually read this in the original fomo episode that you will never hear liked it so nice you'll say it twice exactly moto moto but only once for the listener because it was so shit they never heard it first time i like this because it's got a certain sting to it and i can feel it and i think people when they hear this they'll be able to feel it too we've all been in similar situations oh masochist they said i was in a trio with two girls they kind of ditched me and i'd run into them on my daily walk and they'd be together i mean yeah that does sting thanks for that i think it has a certain ouch to it yeah which i like go on what do you like about it that we're all out here living the same lie if everyone keeps saying we're all out here living the same life and that to me is the crux of fomo whether that's happening

or not that's what we fear what we fear is what happened to this girl don't be like her no no well we've all been there yeah we've all been there but then i also think what we we think that's happening more than it is we think there's a secret room a meeting of all the kind of people that we want to be friends with and they're all mates and you're not included and one day you're going to walk past them and it's gonna be like oh god it was all confirmed i really am the outsider of this life but actually more often than not that isn't happening and when it does happen you see the two girls that you wanted to be friends with on a walk it fucking stings but you're still alive you're still breathing it hurts but it also is like there is more to it once you move past the

initial rejection of it which is horrible it was just that you just walked past two girls that were friends 100 it is making it through the initial sting of what we perceive as rejection which is most of the time just life just a life experience that we somehow feel rejected from once you move past the sting you can kind of remember that as much as they may have rejected you you're not really desperate to be in with somebody who doesn't really like you anyway it's like i would rather someone reject me outright than i kind of get strung along on something that neither of us really care for we're not clicking and it's that awful kind of torturous thing of you're carrying something on yeah and it's just so absolutely

dire it's you know what it is it's devil snare devil snare it's deadly fun but it's salt in the sun it's like oh now i can relax it's just i'm it's unbearable it's like i just lay back and this thing just kind of suffocates me and it can kill you faster kill us faster kill us faster now i can relax honestly let it kill you faster and then you can relax yeah let the world reject you just allow yourself to sink into if we don't click you can relax yeah let the world reject you just allow yourself to sink into if we don't click we don't click let the devil snare eat your life you get to the bottom your aloha more are some keys and you'll see a weird man with it will take his turban off and he'll be wearing a scary head on his face oh god a head on the back of his head

if that makes sense it does make sense because you know the film if i mean if you don't know the film by now you're very confused devil very they keep saying all of these references are weird british accent what is this thing they keep referencing aloha maura it's very niche underground series you've probably never heard of it so strange but as the reviews say it's the best harry potter podcast out there i've heard yeah time of all time after all this time always god i actually made myself angry sick yeah just by going on shut up okay well yeah i mean it does stink doesn't it rejection can we talk about that always after all this time always after all this time always fucking hell but even in the sense of it's kind of crap not crap i was gonna say scrap that is crap this is crap that's a crap

crap is funny i remember i used to find the word crap so funny because my cousin you know the film um what's it called oh what's that film where i'll describe it to you how my cousin described it to me and i'll see if you can tell what film is because i've forgotten the name yeah i've just remembered it but he said so one person craps in another guy's mouth perhaps then he eats that crap and then the other guy craps in the other person's mouth and then they crap it out i have no i have no idea what the fuck that is because that's what i thought the film was it's the human centipede okay yeah it could only be that it can only be that but i remember thinking i was about 12 they crap in each other's mouths i mean literally yeah they literally do one of the most horrific films i've

ever seen but that's how that was described how you said scrap and then it became crap and now i'm talking about human sentiment yeah well what i was gonna say, so glad we finally got that off our chest. Jesus, if anyone had any doubt that I was autistic, that just confirms. No, as long as it doesn't. No, not even close. But anyway. That might not go in. No, no, own it, own it, own it.

Your own life, your own experience. Who can question you on your own experience? Me. Tell me. Me. Give me the fucking name. Who can question you on your own experience me tell me me give me the fucking name who can question you on your own experience apart from you what we touched on in the other episode i think

maybe that didn't get the car but i think is a good point and leads back to this is we'll find rejection even when there isn't any and that's not undermining this person from that message not undermining that instance in particular because that as we said stings and sounds awful and you know we've all been there and very sorry that that happened blah blah but it's kind of we set up a script you've scripted a whole piece of how the night is supposed to go and everyone's supposed to i need the party needs to go this way because i fancy that person and they're going to be there you're writing short stories i've learned my lines have they learned they're like you've written a whole short story about how it's supposed to go you're a what part author you're you're times best-selling author in your own mind yeah you're writing a pilot you're

pitching it to companies you're like do you like the sound of it they're all saying no and listen yeah it's not gonna go well i'm sorry to say it's not been picked up honestly i'm out this time we have not followed the script it's not quite what we're looking for you had a whole idea of how it was supposed to go and even if your night pans out well it still won't be good enough because you'll be thinking oh but they looked better than me so he probably likes her instead of me or oh and he probably didn't even i said that weird thing so i probably just ruined all of it. Or like, oh, I've ruined it by doing that. Blah, blah, blah.

We've got this whole idea. Because someone else said, let me read it word for word. Let me do it justice. Victoria Justice. They said. If she's listening, she's like, what? What the fuck? Hey, Vic.

Hey, Vic. They said, the anticipation of FOMO is so much worse than the actual missing out, in my opinion. But it's that classic idea of you've got this parallel universe where everything is going according to plan. And the universe itself is going to laugh in your fucking face. Throw your plan back in your face. Your face is covered in plan. Your face is covered in flan. You've got a bit of flan on your face did you know just there

well you you will never ever ever be able to predict what happens in your life we keep telling you this i keep telling myself this and i don't listen when you find yourself kind of in the shower shampooing your hair thinking all right well i'm gonna say to that person why did you ever say that you're planning out you're say that? You're planning out, you're writing, honestly, fiction. You're not getting paid for this. What are you doing? Drop it. Literally scrap it.

It's embarrassing. That's to me. Stop writing short stories in the shower. Yeah. Enjoy your shower. Well, because you're only setting yourself up for disappointment. You're making up fictional universes.

You kind of think you're manifesting. No, you're not. You think you're rehearsing something that's going to happen. You know what you're making up fictional universes you kind of think you're manifesting no you're not you think you're rehearsing something that's going to happen you know what you're doing you're breaking your rule of don't fantasize about people you know and also don't solve your problems in the shower at night even worse something my friend and i were discussing recently well she actually made the point and i thought that's a great point and i didn't think at the time that i was going to use it on the pod, but now I am. I don't know why. I think I said this to you on the phone, actually. God, I've really been... Spreading this around. Honestly, a little gospel.

Yeah, I'm spreading the word. Spreading the gospel. We were talking about friendships. Quite meta. Me and my friend talking about friendships as we do. Kind of me and you on the podcast every week talking about the fact we have a podcast. Very meta. Yeah.

Love it. I don't know why I'd never really thought about this before but she basically was saying that we hold like romantic relationships to a really high standard but with friends you can really um like just the majority of people just kind of shit friends completely and it's really i think it's actually like abnormal or rare to be a good friend or to have a good friendship it's more common than not just like a not very good friendship so interesting yeah i see that i just thought it was really interesting just in the sense that how it came up was we were talking about she was kind of saying it's very common for like your friend to not support you or it's very common for your friend to not be honest with you it's very common for your friend to not be honest with you it's

very common for your friend to like actually not really want to see you happy or like yeah it's kind of common for your friend to not really like you it seems yeah i mean that's bleak but yet we do everything to keep these friendships it's so true it just is kind of a scary thing maybe partially it's because with romantic relationships there's this idea that especially with like monogamous romantic traditional marriage essentially is that you are searching for one person who must have your your entire loyalty and there must be like no doubt in that and you are working together to build this thing but with friendships it's like oh you can just spread yourself really thin and society loves the idea of everyone having lots of friends which suggests you don't have

enough time to work on something with all of them yeah so you're searching for this one big person that your other half quote unquote don't make me sick you're a hole on your own you were just saying i was your other half imagine with two holes imagine imagine imagine i expose you like that yeah go you're looking for this other person but with friends it's like there's an idea that you can they're interchangeable almost yeah it's like oh when that person's busy i'll just meet that person it's like no i wanted to meet that specific person right i wanted to talk to this specific person about this specific thing because they bring me that not oh yeah i just have loads of friends and if that person's busy i'll just go meet that one i'll meet a friend a friend i want to go i

want to go meet a friend who who which one who why yeah that's true i also think it's kind of is it a bit embarrassing to be committed to a friend that's so true with dating you're not supposed to let them know that you actually like them those sorts of things it's kind of i think we're all a bit too cool and you want to seem very nonchalant but it's like i think in friendships that's really damaging because you're obviously very invested in one another but the whole performance of like not really caring it suddenly feels quite serious to say oh you what you i was a bit upset when you said blah blah i was triggered earlier triggerable trigger me because when you said blah blah blah that suddenly seems in a romantic relationship you're fully in a relationship with someone that's kind of it's part and parcel with communicating in a

relationship but in those friendships that aren't maybe like best like you're you're not certainly in weighing then you're not prepared to die for each other in a weird way it's a bit kind of oh like that's kind of out of nowhere you've come you've taken it quite serious that's a bit weird you're confrontational it's like what is that it's kind of like they said the weirdest thing yeah it's not very normal to be committed and like show up for your friends i guess i don't know i i agree completely i also think there's an idea that there's a romanticized idea in society that especially with girls you should have one best friend and then acquaintances that with a girl you're never

enough on your own you should always be part of a duo in some way whether that's with another girl kind of your sister would be an appropriate one and then also with a man i don't think that's ever an idea that like the party kind of gal that has loads of acquaintances and like you're not whole yeah you're that wouldn't be acceptable just to be like having loads of friends that none of them are that deep yeah did you say recently that you you work in threes that was in the fomo um episode that got cut yeah i'm giving you guys the inside scoop inside scoop throughout my life i've always always featured in dynamics of threes in three so it's sephie wing and the listener sephie wing and jim carrey as we've been jim carrey that is the three that's my chosen three of the moment

yeah fair enough but i've always been in threes always i don't really know why i think i just um like that dynamic but they're difficult to get right that's why i liked that um message about the girl that was walking and saw her other two friends on a walk and was like it stings because i think there's an idea when you're operating within threes that you can easily slip into three's a crowd it's a classic saying my grandma once said that to me her and my sister walking and i said can i come and she said three's a crowd and i was gutted well she actually didn't let you go fucking hell it was a joke but it was also did sting hurts to this day that's done grandma grandma i hope she's listening that was mean of you i'll phone you in a minute and tell you that was mean of you to say that to me when i was like 10 still remember it but she's right

three is a crowd but i think that's why i am the sort of son of a preacher man of communication. Fucking hell. I am just preaching this communication life. Yeah. You've just got to talk about it. Because I think it's natural in a three, for example, to fluctuate between sometimes you're close with this person, sometimes they will be closer and sometimes be close with the other one.

It is always going to be shifting. That just a a fluid you found yourself in the middle of a fluid dynamic and kind of you'll trick yourself into thinking of the other two are best friends then you are alone you are the least liked one but no no you've been rejected you see other people's closeness as a rejection which is not the case no it's just literally not the case so i think if you're in a three you gotta talk guys yeah it's the only way but also you're not in a three i also think that's so silly it's like i'm in a three i'm in a relationship i'm in a best friendship it's like you're actually just on your own like everyone else and you're trying to fit in with humans we'll have a bit of fluidity as well that the three could turn into a two could turn into a four well that was the thing with when

before we met each other throughout uni i was always in a very very close three dynamic and i guess you were in a two dynamic and they joined forces and we became a five dynamic like things do just move friendship is fluid and that's kind of part of it because you're all just individuals yeah but it's when you've got that hook on um as we were saying earlier like one of you is basically being at peace with whatever happens and i guess no like feeling confident in your own it's a self-esteem issue almost yeah being confident in yourself but also being confident in your own behaviors as a friend yeah i can be an awful friend but also like i can also be a great friend i mean we said at the beginning if anyone else is talking to us about that kind of feminism i'm thinking shut up a lot

of the time is that that's not a good friend that's not a good friend trust me yeah yeah what do you think is your most valued trait in a friend realness authenticity you can pretty much be a shitty human if you are real about it is that me no no yeah so take this example here with wing for example shitty human real about it shitty human but she's real about it i think you can be like look i'm gonna i'm about to do a shitty thing or like i really really want to do this shitty thing like can i talk about it and talk about why i want to do that and it's because of this and i'm kind of thinking about this and this and this i would much rather that than someone that acts perfectly all the time and does no shitty things and is a big faker i'm not interested well i agree if i've got a relationship with someone i need it to be all in always yeah is that your main thing in friendship

do you think i think i agree with you i think it is just authenticity because i want it's not i don't need to have to relate on you on all level like i don't need to agree with you all the time i don't you don't need to be a certain type of person i just i think my favorite thing in life is love my the realest thing in life is love but it's kind of if my favorite thing and it really is my favorite thing of feeling like like someone's trusted me to like share a real piece of themselves with me like that's my favorite thing is is someone is having that moment with someone where you're you're you're allowed they're allowing you to see them you you meet them that real connection yeah you're seeing each other we see each other it's

you meet them in that beating heart moment when you're hugging and your hearts are beating like my dream but you are there's no kind of weird so i'm coming to you as i've just come out from work and i had a great day and i'm all hyped up on my ego and i'm gonna talk to you through those eyes no ego i think that's it and you're lying you're a marketing assistant and you've just come out and you're feeling great you're a marketing marketing marketing girl and you come out and you're meeting your friend for drinks and you're a marketing assistant and you've just come out and you're feeling great you're a marketing marketing marketing girl and you come out and you're meeting your friend for drinks and you're all talking you're talking talking talking and you're actually still in the and you're performing yeah it's not real it's like no let's strip i don't want to have friendship

performed to me no no i'm not trying to have you perform as my friend i just want a real i want the mess of it i just want like a decent combo yeah i love the mess i love people fucking up and i love talking it through and i love the vulnerability yeah i love the humanness of it all i agree because that's what i love in um kind of um like romantic relationships as well i love the um the moments of like in dating the moments of oh you you're not you don't like that you just said that like i can see that you just slipped up and you're you look nervous now yeah yeah the vulnerability well it's kind of you love it when their wife dies because there's an emotional depth there but it is kind of that it's it's it's a heavy thing being a human is heavy to be able to share the weight is the biggest

most amazing thing in life it's the only option yeah it is actually the only option when you break it down it's like okay so if i take all my relationships here and all of the all of the people i know in life it's like which ones have i stuck with and which ones have as the pandemic has arisen around me if i just like laid to the waist around me it's kind of yeah the people that have stuck are the ones that i have that connection with are the ones that i can be like how are you feeling and they won't be like so i've actually had a really fucking amazing week they can be like oh i've actually had a really good week like this has happened and this has happened yeah it's not fake i think my biggest enemy in this life is

ego and performance it's my big enemy within myself and within other people yeah i'm back to this like is it realistic no you're never gonna escape that there's no way we live in a capitalist world that loves that but you can have real friendships obviously because that's saying you can have real friendships but i think is without saying. You can have real friendships. But I think, is it just something we have to accept of a lot of the time your relationships won't be, I don't know. I think you do need to accept that because there'll be moments where it's like not everyone is willing to be vulnerable.

Not everyone can be vulnerable at every minute of the day or you're just going to be in a wreck. But I almost think it's about capturing those moments. Like I almost feel like, are we having one right now it's like a moment where yeah we're performing in some ways but it's like look you can capture it where it's like look i'm actually speaking pretty close to my like heart beliefs here yeah without any care that i care in the world without any um like ego performance in this of course there will be but i think of course you slip back into it so easily it is unrealistic to expect that all the time within all your relationships because some people aren't ready some people can't do it and to be honest

nobody can do it the whole time but when you get those moments for example those are why those moments where someone's just being broken up with or someone is going for a trauma someone is going someone is in a vulnerable moment that's why those feel so connecting and that's why trauma bonds exist in those moments is because you are seeing the raw human you're seeing kind of the inner child which is what is the like essence of a human yeah god it's quite emotional actually i know i don't even know that made sense no that makes sense yeah because it's just it's those massive moments and it's those moments that are meaningful but they're not nice well like they're not nice you don't want people to have those moments but it's almost like you feel closer to someone after

you've seen them cry yeah oh but it doesn't even have to be sad like the vulnerability doesn't have to be sad you can be vulnerable in yeah yeah exactly in laughter that's also the thing you were saying a few episodes ago why does realness get equated with ugliness exactly yeah yeah why is it if you've cried and you've had your boyfriend's broken up with you oh i can really see you're so real and no ego there's a shit ton of ego in it there's a shit ton of performance in that so fucking true it's like you can kind of um you can show your skin without foundation on show your acne scarring but that doesn't mean it's authentic yeah there's still a million things that could be wrapped up in that moment or in that behavior or in that representation of you in that moment that is laced with performance yeah cool cool so put your foundation on

so put that foundation back don't even worry about it put it back on i like the idea of accepting performance though i like the idea of we can never get to the core essence of every person so yeah it's easier to perform and we've been trained to perform our entire lives in so many ways gender the idea of performing as a woman the idea of performing as a man we are literally entrenched in performing different identities that is bleak but i do i don't hate the idea of the protective shell of performance like it's easier to walk around with your shitty little ego at times when you're when you're like operating with anxiety or you're operating with depression it's like yeah okay well maybe i'll just step into at least i have a good job and i'll go into that mode or something yeah it's sad that

we have to do that but even um in the way that we were talking about accepting sometimes you're going to be not in the best mood i think maybe sometimes we do just accept that some things are wrapped up in performance and you know so be it is that the worst thing in the world probably not too much navel gazing exactly but also i would love to strip pretty much every interaction i have. Yeah. Down to like, what are you really saying though? It's kind of the thing of someone cries about crumbs on the worktop. There are too many crumbs on the worktop. You haven't tied it up, but they're actually angry about the fact they're going through a divorce. Yeah.

And it's like, look, let's strip it back. You're lying to yourself and me. Just a quick question, I guess to end on how do you think your best relationships have come to you is it by accident always after all this time after all this time always but always yeah every single i genuinely think pretty much all of the good things in my life have been nothing to do with me the minute you get those scrappy hands on it yeah and this is why i get a bit spiritual with things like all of the things that i have like worked at it from a place of ego and like wanting to improve my life have all fallen down and they're not those things but what is actually stuck are the real the real things that come from more of like an essence

a place that's like i made that decision based on nothing other than a feeling and now i have this from it or or like i sat next to someone one day ended up falling in love with them kind of that kind of vibe i i agree and i i think it's um if you come to any situation with desperado vibes if you come to if you're coming to your life you're meeting your life with desperation sitting in old monte carlo in sitting in an old monte carlo it's not gonna be good is it it's not looking good for you life's gonna serve you what you need then which is literally not what you think you need yeah do you remember my weird poem that i wrote how could i forget it go on i don't think i remember it you do well let me say that it's not actually a poem that i wrote how could i forget it go on i don't think i remember it you do well let me say that it's not actually a poem that i wrote with any kind of consciousness i wrote this i was

didn't write it i said it to myself when i was driving which is so weird and i memorized it it was kind of a big chant it was actually a bit of a chant yeah it was kind of a mantra it was what was it if you want it because you really want it that was how it started i swear yeah it did start like that do you want it because you really want it? That was how it started, I swear. Yeah, it did start like that. Do you want it because you really want it? Well, basically the last, the essence of the poem, the weird little chant was- The crux of it is, yeah, the punchline. Do you want it because you really want it?

Or do you want it because you really need it? If you need it, you might as well forget it. If you want it, then go on out and get it. Get it. Was that it? Go and get it. Something like that. Yeah, yeah.

And the idea of that i guess when i said to myself in the car break that down for us that if you come to things with the idea that i need to get this job i need to fucking get this job if i need they need this job you might as well forget it but if you're like i want this because i think it will really improve my life i don't need this like my life is good anyway but i just think i want this as an add-on yeah then the universe i guess i was thinking will give it to you it's a real i guess law of attraction vibe which isn't really the vibe i want to give off publicly but yeah i think it's true you come with desperation you will not get it so true and you

you should not get it yeah no it's not right for you well it won't serve you you'll only be proven kind of you'll be proven wrong yeah the universe will show you that it that wasn't serve you you'll only be proven kind of you'll be proven wrong yeah the universe will show you that it that wasn't serving you you won't feel good about it it won't fix your problems you'll be in the same place if not worse because you've got everything you wanted quote unquote and what happened nothing you're still miserable singing on monte carlo yeah do you think that whatever the question you asked me i'm throwing it back but i can't remember the question you might remember the question what was it i'm throwing it back, but I can't remember the question. You might remember the question. What was it? I'm throwing it back.

No, I completely agree. I completely think if you go out with desperation, you will have desperate thrown back at you. You'll be thrown back in your fucking face faster than you could say quit it. So I think that's just the, it's kind of, I think we're all about acceptance these days. Or at least that's what what we'll say we really don't accept anything in our real lives we've got some key themes going on it's kind of if you were going to GCSE analyze us write down the themes of this podcast like authenticity keyword the girls seem to be going on and on about authenticity that must be a big theme for them underline underline authenticity question mark paragraph one I think I'm going to discuss the theme of um authenticity within the goes about saying podcast yeah theme two i might go with trust the timing of your life they have this whole thing about you the universe giving you what you need so true though the third

theme is they're fucking cringe as fuck like i cannot stand these girls well i hope you have enjoyed another episode of goes without saying with Sethi and Wig goes without saying thank you so much to our guest Harry Styles for featuring on this episode it was so nice to have you so great and we'll see you next week for another god knows what we'll get into then I can't wait and we'll see you on the discord I'll see you there see you there