Goes Without Saying - fomo & body-image: how to beat the summer scaries

Episode Date: June 11, 2023

a little Summer Blues goin on for the TeeeEn VooOgue party!join the conversation every monday.shop our merch: sephyandwing.co.ukspeak your mind on the @sephyandwing instagram. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Wendy's Small Frosty is the ultimate summer refreshment. And not because it's cool and creamy and made with fresh Canadian dairy. It's also refreshingly cheap. Just 99 cents until July 14th. It's a treat for you and your wallet. ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. Nature. I've got a gay rooster named Francois. Here's a show that we recommend. And this is a field guide to gay animals. A podcast about queerness in the natural world.

The animal kingdom is queer and we are a part. Find a field guide to gay animals on Spotify, Apple. Or wherever you get your podcasts. ACAST helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com Goes Without Saying. You're listening to Goes Without Saying with Sefi and Wing. I'm Wing. And I'm Sefi.

And classic, the Fairy Podmothers are back with a lovely little discussion on anxiety around summer basically, the pending hot girl summer, the summer scaries, the pressure, the FOMO, the body image, all of those amazing just summery beautiful experiences that we have. Enjoy. Immediately I know to burp. Why do I always do that? Just go just go for it i can't it's not there oh it was like an internal one you kind of like took it i could i could really force it but like i don't want to make myself sick anyway the ratings will go through the roof if i'm sick on air um hey hey who summoned us is this a thursday uh no this is or do we say that on every app now are we saying that what who summoned who summoned us i think so i think it's i think it's fairy pod

mothers which i still need to put in the bio very very pod mothers that is so good like you know what you're getting from us we are claiming that wing messaged me the other day being like fairy pod mothers why have we never said that before and it's like claim it no after we'd said it i think we'd said it on the podcast and i was like wait why don't we ever say that why did we only say it once and then just like let it drift off into the abyss for someone else to use but it's like claim it now i know it was mentioned like put it in the bio every episode like or someone's gonna take it you know what i'll put it i'll put it in the like spotify bio right after this which i recently did change by the way i did what does

it say now well it said about the sleepy goblin yeah yeah i loved the sleepy goblin well i quite like the um fairy pod mother vibe because it kind of brings us back full circle to our priestess energy 100 yeah yeah bringing us into the magical realm um what should we just get straight in let's do it it's your fairy pod mothers ready to help summer summer what time is it summertime it's summertime um maybe we should talk about high school musical a little bit because that kind of just got me yeah go on anything in particular to say or just a celebration of the hsm times i think we should maybe celebrate um who should we celebrate today let's celebrate chad i feel like he needs some celebration he always does yeah he always does okay i once entered a competition to design one of chad's t-shirts didn't win didn't win you had

to come up with a slogan because all his like t-shirts have a little like catchphrase on them they're like loving the game or something yeah they're like bounce back yeah they're literally bounce back and i didn't win but let's just take a moment to celebrate chad i'm celebrating chad today yeah same today i celebrate chad yeah okay um well chad this one's for you this goes out to chad what are your thoughts on like the pressure around summer like is that something you think about is that something you feel in your bones like what does that mean to you specifically because i could bring us to the pits but i maybe want you to ease us in a little bit let's ease

yeah let's ease nice and easy let's ease this in right i think i don't necessarily feel like a huge pressure around summer i think i have done within my life and i think i think of there being more pressure around summer than winter in winter it's appropriate for you just to like lie in bed and kind of rot for like five months summer it's not really appropriate and you're going to start to feel quite shit or shitter than you would do in winter doing that okay yeah and i do think there's definitely pressure a lot of people wrote in saying that there's pressure to have like a perfect body and or things like that and definitely that does play into it when it's like right okay it's time to wear like smaller clothes it becomes like slightly a worry but also my issues around body image aren't necessarily

focused on like I usually feel better in smaller clothes I usually feel worse if I'm wearing like loads of layers and things like that is just another fucked element of my mind so winter is sometimes harder to like dress in I find but yeah I think there's loads of pressures in summer there's pressure to be doing stuff having a perfect life be outside all the time be going on loads of holidays but I don't know if I'm feeling that like massively this year that's nice I'm feeling like normal levels of like I'm excited for summer I'm feeling quite intense pressure at all times yeah and it's not seasonal but normal levels just normal levels of intense pressure that's nice how do you feel about summer well i i agree with you that the main thing for me has always been feeling like you

know it's one thing to be really struggling in the winter and like i do think in the uk it's kind of everyday winter until you've got kind of two days of summer yeah but i've definitely like i definitely feel the pressure of i think in the uk the scarcity vibe of like oh my god we've got sun get outside go do something go celebrate go do this go do that have a barbecue or you fail have a barbecue exactly yeah um like almost have the biggest event of the year yeah if the pims isn't coming out it's like okay guys you're a fucking failure linda mccartney sausages on the barbecue on the back to 50 time to get burnt and it's so um hard i think as like a mentally challenged no like a mentally bad like a bad brain bad brain girl

as a band bad brained girl it's hard to like be sitting inside and watching the sun rising and setting before you when all you've done is like roll over and eat in a bag of crisps like and i'm not that's not hyperbolic like that has been my experience the majority of the time i would say i am in this new era where i don't know what it is i've been cured like grandpa joe and i'm being out of bed the fairy pod mother came in she's been cured fairy pod mother came in and i am feeling i'm feeling fine i'm feeling better than ever like i feel good and then i feel bad and the badness goes and then i feel good and i just feel like i'm not so bad brained anymore i'm just living a human existence i guess this is how

humans live um and so it feels quite nice to be able to like organically enjoy my time in the sun that i've had over the past like a week or whatever without feeling like i have another reason to punish myself because it really i do find it very very hard when i'm feeling bad and the sun is out because i just feel like the sun is whispering in my ear like the little telly tubby baby in the sun it's like you're a fucking mess yeah yeah get the fuck up like are you not gonna come and see me today yeah you're gonna just hide away in your house i'll go and see my other girls then i'm not spending time with you it's almost like i could make i'm in your city you up yeah i could make i could give

you everything you know you need but you're not gonna come and see me that's kind of what it's saying no she is yeah she's hounding me yeah she's back she's peering through the windows through the cracks she can't help herself yeah she can't help herself i know um and i do find that really really difficult and i think the kind of classic things that i do in that scenario is like turn to social media and scroll scroll scroll worst move it's literally the worst thing you can do and i know it's not like new information to come in and be like don't go on social media when you feel bad guys like come on why don't you think of that but actually though like nothing has made me feel worse i think in life than doing the whole rotting in bed thing in a really like in a real serious way like not in a

fun way not in a cute way like really actually having a really horrible time yeah and the sun is out and feeling like the biggest failure waste of space on earth and then going on your phone and seeing everyone having the best time it is the worst decision awesome shooters did you do blah blah it's like god everyone's having the best time and i want to be dead it's not good it's not good it is weird the social media thing because we know it like i reckon if you compiled all the times that we spoke about like social media is evil blah blah on this podcast you could make what 10 episodes out of that like just the portions where we talk about social media but still why do i struggle

every day to not click on that app like i tried to make new rules where i was like you're not allowed to go on your phone in the morning what my new rule is actually at the moment is you're not allowed to go on your phone until you have drunk some water because it's almost like look just remember that you're a real human being before you click into this weird zone and then you realize that you're half an hour in it's like look drink some water before you go into this place yeah it's hell in there but why do we still not know it well i always think about the genius thing that you said ages ago you were like it's like when you watch a scary movie or like go to a theme park and go on like one of the maze things of like even though your brain knows that it's fake or like constructed to make you feel a certain way it still makes you scared like just because

you know it yeah just because you know it's kind of been orchestrated or like it's only giving a certain it's a highlight of the picture exactly doesn't mean your brain can entirely distinct distinguish how it should it can't because taking that information i think it's like even though you know that it's a quote- highlight reel that they have they're only showing the best their best looks like something that your best could never even hope to be it's like god well your best is fucking great like even though yeah you set up the picnic that all the best things are at the front like you got your friends to do a little pose put a filter over it little made it look like it was on a film camera ah perfect but still you were still at a picnic with all your friends eating delicious food and the whole thing like it's a highlight reel but it's like your brain can't quite do the jump between like i don't

know it's like that actually that actually did happen like there was a picnic that took place and even though it didn't look that perfect when you're lying in bed it's like well i'd still do anything to be at the picnic definitely i remember we spoke before as well about kind of the idea that social media now is kind of this constant um stream of parties that you'll never be invited to and it's just attached to your phone and i feel like summer really amplifies that because everyone sees it as almost like the goal post it's like we're working towards summer like we only have a limited number of summers and yeah how are you spending your summer and blah blah but how was your summer like also oh no sorry no please but i think the aesthetic of summer is very social

whereas the aesthetic of winter might be a bit more like um sort of march march oh god i'm turning so american match a lot what a matcher in a cafe like in a little coffee shop like you're reading your book fireplace like oh it's so cozy cute winter whereas summer is like where are the friends parties late like sunny evenings like sunsets it's very um communal whereas i feel like winter you're more encouraged to be like harry potter marathon in your lovely cozy bed nice that sounds delicious it does but i do think though no no go on i think that was it i think i don't know why i just said go on and then i just spoke go on sephie and then i just continue speaking i'm done i agree with you i think you can kind

of get into the cozy like tuck yourself away it's the dressing gown times in the winter but then i think what we learned in podmas or what we were talking a lot about in podmas is obviously i think it's just festivities can make you feel like you're not doing enough for whatever reason yeah and summer i guess is this kind of prescribed like two month festivity. And that isn't realistic for me personally. No, no. I think also this idea of like, oh, summer, summer, summer. But it's like, actually, when I think back on what my summer will be or what my summers have been in the past, really, I'm only really thinking of like maybe like five days I had over a three month period.

It's like, oh, that day when we did an amazing picnic. Oh, oh my god that day when i went on that really nice walk blah blah i always sat in the garden all day that day i'm not necessarily oh like maybe i was lucky enough to go on a holiday that year i'm not necessarily thinking of like i had three months of like pure unadulted fun hijinks ensued oh my god like summer beautiful like boat trip summer like yeah i don't even know what that would look like realistically i've never had a summer like that and maybe i will have will have gone to like one festival and that's like that was my summer plan like a festival and like maybe i'll go and have like drinks at my friend's house in the garden that's like that was my summer plan like a festival and like maybe i'll go and have like drinks at my friend's house in the garden that's really like they're actually quite sparse events also people are working like yeah all day every day all day every day like i remember this

when i started working in an office when i was 18 i had come straight out of school and i was like god i can't wait for summer and they were like why what you doing i was like what do you mean what am i doing like summer holidays and they were like well have you booked it off i was like oh my god are you joking like i stop i like just didn't really know i honestly thought that you thought you're gonna get your six week home well i didn't know it'd be six weeks but i i really didn't think of like you hadn't processed not having the break i was i was obviously just so attuned to like school schedules that i literally hadn't even thought of the fact that oh my god i'm actually going to be in this office every day indefinitely yeah

like i actually hadn't thought of it and it was like quite um early in the year so it wasn't an issue i could make some time to go away but it was one of those things where i was like quite um early in the year so it wasn't an issue i could take some time to go away but it was one of those things where i was like oh my god i didn't really realize like not everyone is a school child and gets just like the summer off that's quite funny because it's kind of what we were talking about we've touched on in the past few episodes about sephie kind of being on a level of like people just want to bring sephy down like why like like seffy just has this energy that people want to destroy it's like oh yeah because you're turning up saying i can't wait for summer my six week holidays i don't know if i thought i'd get six weeks but i

yeah i think it genuinely hadn't crossed my mind i was 18 look i'd just come out of school i hadn't crossed my mind that that everyone that wasn't either a teacher or a student had to work throughout a summer like i literally had that had not crossed my mind i was like what do you mean i have to work what a harsh reality through the sun what kick in the teeth it is a kick in the teeth and so i think that's also one of the things with summer it's like i still think in society there's this romanticized idea of summer as if it's like kind of if anyone has watched the summer i turned pretty great series i watched about an episode and thought this is

shit and then i watched the whole thing and the rest of the day and thought this is amazing i've never seen it is it a book as well it's a book as well and there's like a second um season of it coming out soon i'm actually not team jeremiah guys that was a joke music in it i think they might have used some taylor swift songs maybe in the trailer they used a lot actually of stuff i reckon they did i think they used a lot of olivia rodrigo stuff nice okay if my memory serves me right but like i think your memory's serving you well there yeah i think so there's definitely an idea of like this summer break that you're gonna get and i think we still function as a as a society like we're all getting this summer break that you're gonna get and i think we still function as

a society like we're all getting this summer break but it's like actually most people aren't getting this summer break like realistically it's a collection of weekends maybe some bank holidays that we will have fingers crossed in england the sun is shining yeah so i think the whole idea of it is ridiculous like we really do act like it's like the the summer is an unending period of like god i've got to sort myself out for summer it's like look really it's realistically like 10 days so true it's kind of what we were just saying as well surprise surprise just before we started recording we were having a chat and it's kind of something we've spoken about before and i know loads of people have spoken about it but just the idea that actually generally it sounds very simple but it can be a little bit life-changing if you just

let it hit like just let it simmer for a second i'm just gonna say something just let's open ourselves up to the potential of this and just let this wash over you guys right now okay where are you you're on the tube you're in the library just let let your heart open wide for me okay mine's okay open wide and here's what we're serving up as you said your life isn't made of these like big pillar moments it's sometimes really exciting high highs and really really steep low lows sure but generally your life your well-being your mood your emotions a lot of your relationships are really built on how you spend your day today how are you spending hour by hour your life generally is built up of really really small moments and as we say over summer it's like your life might look the same and that's okay if you're on the way to wherever you're going

scrolling through your phone and seeing all of these people doing amazing things it becomes very hard to detach from that when you feel like you're missing out on like these huge amazing kind of pinnacle of life yeah yeah but it's it is more so i think i just think i'm always happier not necessarily when like I've got huge things going well for me or like amazing things have happened or like you know I've got huge things going I'm more so happier just like when it's sunny on my walk and like I played with my dog and like I saw my friend and when you're feeling just good yeah when you're just feeling good in the actual small tangible moments day to day because yeah before you know it the days turned into months and you may have had a shit month and not be able to pinpoint why but it's like because you spent every hour rotting in bed

yeah dot dot dot past me is triggered because do you know what i mean like you can't bank on like huge events and like huge achievements to get you through i think this is we just had a conversation off the podcast for probably an hour or so a couple hours maybe and i think what you're saying now is pretty much what you were saying to me in that conversation we were talking about like i'm not in a great phase of my life right now or like i've definitely got like some i've i've basically felt a bit off for like a month which isn't very nice like and i don't i'm don't i don't really often have like an extended period of like feeling just quite bad in myself but we were talking about that like you can have amazing stuff going on but if your day-to-day

really you're not happy with how that's going that's the stuff that seems to be more important and I think that is a huge portion of it and I also think that we were talking a lot about the story that you tell yourself like my life essentially looks the exact same as it did two months ago when I was like I'm thriving I'm doing great like I was feeling completely good and normal in myself nothing actually nothing has changed at all the only thing that's different is I have a different perception on it now like I've just hooked on to like a negative story about my life in the last month somewhere along the line in my collection of like bad habits of looking at my phone too much not going outside not seeing my friends enough like not um doing the

things that are important to me and somewhere along the line I picked up a bad story and then I've like hooked onto it for the last probably month without even realizing it and before I know it I'm in kind of a negative story like oh I'm not going anywhere in my life like everything is a flop like blah blah blah even though it's literally tangibly the exact same like a stranger looking at my life two months ago and looking at it now could not tell any different yeah but i think so much of it is yes how you actually spend your day and like think about the things that make you happy and try and do those things and avoid the things that make you feel bad i would say read the book atomic habits very very helpful for that that kind of like tangible steps of like designing your life

to be good for you but also i think there's a huge layer of like how are you perceiving this like if you're if you're doing all the right stuff but you're seeing it through negative eyes you're still going to be fucked so you've got to change the like how you are viewing it yeah yeah i agree wendy's small frosty is the ultimate summer refreshment and not because it's cool and creamy and made with fresh canadian dairy it's also refreshingly cheap just 99 cents until july 14th it's a treat for you and your wallet. ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we

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so difficult though something we keep saying is like when you're in it it's actually impossible to see through the shit like to get the separation from yourself and the horrific thoughts it's impossible it's what we were saying in the last episode of you can be like you can be experiencing imposter syndrome but without without having the label of imposter syndrome it just feels like oh i just am worthless piece of shit i'm not i've just realized that i'm not good enough yeah yeah but like when as soon as you can step outside of it and be like oh i've got imposter syndrome or oh i'm actually stuck in a bad narrative about this or i'm seeing everything negative i think until you've got that it just feels like everything is

doomed do you remember when we would always say well we didn't say that much we said a few times you moved to california but it's just a state of mind i was thinking about this last i mean lana famously said it not us lana said this quote we really said it she said this go on you moved wait i think it's either i or you i moved to california but it's just a state of mind turns out everywhere you go you bring yourself that's not a lie it's not a lie you do bring yourself and i was gonna say that i feel like summer and what we're seeing from some of the messages that we're getting from people is kind of the arrival fallacy issue of like placing this goal post on summer what you're laughing at just something else that lana said go on go on don't hold back it's your

space guys she's literally sat here with the biggest smirk on your face like do you mind i'm speaking oh so sorry i just thought i just had i just realized something else that lana said lana del rey we're talking about i just realized and i thought of this when i was in the costa toilets of like my hometown at the least glamorous place of all time that's always where lana is and i was just thinking she's always a murky i was really like washing my hands and like thinking about this quote like in the mirror which is like so absurd like it's the least glamorous place like an old man had just definitely done a shit in there sort of thing thing but her quote is let me get it right

and i was almost like god i agree like same i this is me like this is how we should all live our lives let me get it though the way i live my life is my poetry my love making is my legacy and i get to make music in between and i was thinking and i get to make podcasts in between and i get to hang around the cost of that's the epitome of romanticize your life when you're literally in like quite a disgusting toilet of your hometown costa but don't you think the perspective is everything it's everything it's absolutely everything some things again something we were just saying outside of the podcast is like some things are it doesn't matter what light you put them in they're shit and they're difficult and i don't think this conversation is necessarily

trying to undermine that but it's more so trying to offer you like a helping hand in like shaking a little bit of the perspective kind of dust off and kind of like wiping you down we're kind of cleaning you off we're like redressing you like putting some put a change of top like this isn't working like we're just fixing you up a little bit like let's brush your hair like let's sort this this shit out like let's change your socks because this ain't right you're a bit dusty mcfusty and we just need to kind of shake up whatever's going on here god it's quite brutal actually very pod mothers yeah it's like yeah sergeant it's like everybody up everybody up out of bed i want a nice clean game from all of you yeah but i do think a lot of people place this kind of goal post on summer of like by summer

i'll be a different person and if i'm not i'm a failure if anyone remembers when sephie wrote that note to herself it was like by the age of 12 or something i need to be doctor who's sidekick which is a bbc show and if not i'm a fucking failure and there's no point living give up underlined and then hidden behind my wardrobe to find when i was like 20 being like oh shit didn't do that i mean ouch i can't the thing is i can't blame you because i also think we're not necessarily writing letters about getting on doctor who these days which i did audition for as well no you didn't yeah i sent in an audition tape stop it right now wait what i thought i must have told this before you said i'm not like a boring basic manifesto like i took steps

i manifested and i took action oh god i didn't just say that willy-nilly oh i want the universe to give me doctor who was assistant i auditioned for no one like i don't know if they saw the tape i'm so confused right now i it was a blue peter competition another cbvc show oh my god but i didn't realize you'd actually done an audition yeah i filmed it but what was quite weird about sorry, it's really like not on a summer topic. I'm feeling summery. The sun's come out for me. Guys, just picture this blue sky behind me. Blue sky, Doctor Who, yeah.

But it really wasn't. It was probably like February, England. In my mum's bedroom that I filmed this really weird, sitting on my mum's bed. The scene that they wanted you to audition. I got my grandma to film it. Oh, sweet. Cute. And like learn the lines with me although i'm like 10 at this point maybe younger nine maybe what to be doctor who's assistant no it was just to be in doctor who and i know who got the part this other girl got it um and

because i remember seeing the episode me like that girl have been me and the misogyny begins i know i know let the competition unfold literally um and the scene was supposed to be you talking to your dad but um my dad wasn't in clearly and i did it with a little toy cat and i was holding a toy cat and i was being like dad like really tell me we can track down this i wish we could but also i don't know if i did it right because i just took the tape out of the camcorder and just like sent that like probably i was supposed to put it on like some kind of disc wow you sent the physical you sent the physical thing so that physical thing is somewhere then oh far i sent them a tape and i wrote like blue peter bbc london sent them a tape at the post office.

Like I went to the post office and sent the tape with my grandma. Like she probably wasn't even recording it. That is so fucking cute. So like I took steps for that to happen. I didn't just say, oh, I want to be in Doctor Who. Okay. Even at age nine, I was like, look, you've got to work for this shit. Good for you.

Good for you. I'm sorry to hear it didn't go well but i'm so sorry to hear it didn't work and maybe one day i will be in doctor maybe one day yeah you're giving billy piper actually with the blonde hair am i yeah that's my biggest dream rose yeah um yeah yeah the format has changed the format has changed we're not necessarily writing letters saying you need to be on doctor who and if not you're a failure but we are essentially still doing the same thing of like pushing these markers of like success and versions of ourselves that we need to be and i feel like summer is a big one where people like place a lot of meaning on being a

certain person for the summer or being a certain person by summer either time summer comes around or like next summer or where are you in this summer in comparison to last summer like i definitely feel like i see a lot of conversation and a lot of narratives and to be honest i'm just reading the room yeah that there's a vibe there's a certain energy there's a certain je ne sais quoi about this time right now and it's giving it's giving unhappiness actually oh god i think it's the antithesis of what we're saying that summer is supposed to be this like free happy time i'm like relaxing almost relaxing maxing relaxing yeah it's not yeah it's not actually giving it is it no it's not i'm seeing i'm like relaxing almost relaxing maxing relaxing yeah it's not yeah it's not

actually giving it is it no it's not i'm seeing i'm seeing actually a lot of stress a lot of worry yeah no you're actually really right it's not um what it's cracked up to be this whole summer thing is it no she's not quite giving what she said she was gonna give summer because if you think that what are the connotations of summer like of like a almost the summers that you had as a kid like they're supposed to be swimming in the park playing long days friends that's really what it's supposed to be surely sounds nice sounds like i reckon that's kind of it before all the shit kicked in that's really what summer was but now why is it giving body image fomo working inside when you want to be outside pressure can't afford anything yeah it's giving stress it's it's a huge stress it's like a real actual legitimate stress that people are feeling and i think it just puts the whole kind of comparison um issue on steroids like it really i think magnifies this kind of culture that we're

in of like a lot of people are living through this lens of just constantly comparing themselves to other people and always inevitably falling short because you're setting yourself up to fail because your standard is this completely unattainable version of you that just actually doesn't exist and is never going to exist because you're never going to be happy because you'll move the goal post time and time again i've seen you do it i've seen you do it kind of be like oh well if i had this what all of us you really pointed at me and you know what it went right into my soul because i agree it's true right everyone yeah yeah i've seen us do this of like okay if i can just do that and if i can just do that by summer that means i'm okay

that means i'm a success that means i'm good enough whatever that then it's my birthday exactly birthday but then it's like oh okay i've got it well that meant nothing so what next like as soon as you do achieve it or as soon as you do have it you're happy for like two minutes and then you're like okay what's next you're honestly not i'm still hungry this is yeah honestly but now i'm tired oh i just want to change i just need to change my top and then i'll be happy oh i just my hair i did a haircut i just need a haircut yeah something needs to change why am i in a rut it's like because you're setting yourself up to fail yeah we're actually suffocating yourself sorry i cut you off at the end just said

you're suffocating yourself yeah you are you personally are you are we were talking kind of recently about sims bars like almost your knees keeps coming up doesn't it yeah it's coming up time and time again but i remember i don't know where we were i think we might be in london together but we were talking about every single i just feel like life is a constant filling up of the needs bars all the time all the fucking time it's like oh i need a wee oh now i'm hungry oh now i'm fucking tired now i need to speak to someone oh now my environment's shit oh now i need a wee oh now i'm hungry oh now i'm fucking tired now i need to speak to someone oh now my environment's shit oh now i need another week blah blah like it's just constant yeah literally yeah constant like uh-huh there is always something that isn't is like about to

go on red or it's just yellow about to go on red like i feel like i'm always chasing very basic fundamental like human needs which is really boring because i wish i was focusing on the aspiration meter for example like the fun things but i actually feel like so much of life is just being like oh now i'm hungry oh it's 1 p.m i'm hungry again but that's the thing it's the small it's the mundane moment so it's like okay you're hungry you have a choice here you can either live in hell yeah and i don't know what your guys eating habits are but i've i know the girls are not doing well you could either choose this moment to punish yourself or you can eat something that you enjoy and then build up these kind of small moments of

happiness you also keep talking at the moment about it's something that we really try and do within this space like between the two of us having a podcast together yeah we always talk about um making incremental steps in the right direction it's like if we're about to do something that potentially doesn't feel aligned you'll always say like is that an incremental step in the right direction like is that leading us to the version of sephian wing that we want to be or towards a sephian wing that we don't want to be and i think to our tethered to our tethered absolute absolute pits like i don't want to meet my tethered ever no it'd be terrifying i don't um i'm actually touching wood on that like that i'm so deep

yeah horrifying um but i think that's it it's like with every decision that you have every day it's like okay so you wake up your phone is next to you and your water bottle is next to you let's make an incremental step in the right direction let's choose water then it's like breakfast it's honestly sims tutorial it's like betty and bob newby it's like bob's thirsty give him some water bob is thirsty don't you dare let him sit on his phone all day he's gonna watch tv all day he will yeah bob's not gonna feel good no it's like incremental steps okay so then the next thing i can either go for a walk or i can scroll on my phone let's go for a walk like let's keep making decisions in the right direction

and slowly but surely they actually this white atomic habits this book i'm gonna bring up again yeah i'm intrigued that you liked it i actually really like it i'm not done yet but i like it in the way that it's like these tiny tiny little habits that you make have the potential to be atomic that it's like it all comes from tiny things like choosing the right things every day yeah actually then make a huge impact on your entire life yeah i actually do really think it's true i do too i do too i think as well like the problem with the kind of incremental moves is that you make a decision and it doesn't necessarily the awareness of it being maybe the wrong direction at the time isn't so clear like it almost just feels like all right like i know i probably shouldn't but going through the motions you're really going through the motions and i think when you actually like readjust

and go kind of view your life with a little bit of like care and intention it becomes quite clear of like oh hang on i feel like i'm doing that and it's gonna lead me to a bit of a it's not gonna make me feel good long term yeah i think i think that's very human i think it's very human to choose your phone instead of the walk or like lying in bed instead of drinking the water but i think that's because we go through so much of our lives so much of our life literally mindlessly mindlessly because we just go through almost like not really paying attention to how anything makes us feel but it's like how did you feel when you ate um sort of banana on peanut butter toast versus how did you feel when you didn't eat it's like oh god you probably felt like shit one of them and you probably felt good after the other one

like i do think but so much of it's like we'll just go through and be like i didn't eat oh my god i didn't eat till lunch blah blah blah or like oh i just ate that and like i just now doing this it's like actually how did you feel after your walk how did you feel after your phone it's like let's pay attention to how these things actually make us feel and i think that's what you what is good about you saying like about the intention it's like actually have some intention of like today i would like to feel good okay what are the things then that i can do to make me feel good rather than just like oh well it's just another day in my life yeah yeah i think as well when comparison comes into it it can be really hard to like make the

conscious choice to like kind of even try and be kind of your resolutions try and be a bit softer with yourself of oh i'm failing i'm failing no but that's okay be soft with the fact that you're not doing as well as you wanted to be at this moment but it's just gonna come back because i feel like no i think that's it because i think that's i mean i'm really bad at being soft and kind to myself and and everyone else like my would be soft with yourself and others like i've got to just be softer in this world in general i think or i should i should try to be let's be soft about it yeah yeah i'm a nice person but i could be a bit softer um but i do think that's one of the things that doesn't necessarily come, like, naturally to me. Like, I think my upbringing was very, or, like, the way I moved through the world until I pretty much encountered people that weren't, basically, probably until I went to university.

I thought life was about, like, hardness. Come on, guys. Being brutal. I'm definitely a brute. A brute. I thought that's what it was. Fucking come on. Like, it't matter get on up like you can do this and i think actually winston churchill spunker thatcher winston churchill we can fight them on the beaches guys is that what you said yeah yeah yeah on the beaches like i do think there's something really nice about when you make the

decision of like okay if i'm gonna be a bit softer maybe have a soft summer guys like that's oh i think it's the only way i think it is soft girl summer i've been thinking recently as well like now that i'm feeling i'm in a phase the longest phase i've ever experienced in my living memory i'm in a phase of feeling good mentally the good brain days even like if i'm feeling fragile or upset or like i'm struggling or whatever i'm still definitely feeling like i'm in a different almost like zone yeah just a completely different headspace shout out andy and then i was then i was for the rest of my life to be honest and i've been trying to think like okay well what can i say to them like what can i say to the people who listen

to the podcast that are feeling bad i'm like okay kind of um how did i get here how have i how what's what switched things for me like what what is this let's identify like maybe some of the kind of key players in this game that have moved me into a better headspace and i'm struggling i'm not gonna lie to find some cruxes but i will say one thing i think is almost a bit of a conspiracy theory is that i feel like any keen listeners out there may have noticed that kind of over the past couple of months i think i've been talking a lot or i kept saying in the episodes i like myself i like myself do you remember that yeah yeah i kept being a bit like oh i think i like myself now or like oh it's okay like i i think something i didn't realize was really making a

huge difference in like my i guess brain was the way that i was talking to myself and i think i've i've been quite soft and gentle with others naturally perhaps too soft and gentle with others no perfect naturally well over my life yeah maybe too soft you see yeah yeah then i kind of learned okay you need to become a bit more of a brute to kind of get yourself through fine do you know i mean like stop being too nice to people and finding like a happy medium with others but i've never been nice to myself ever yeah what the fuck are you laughing at brew the word brew it just made me laugh it doesn't take much just laugh out loud don't why are you withholding the laugh and then smirking because i almost i'm finding it funny i'm finding things funny for like too long so it's

almost like the moment's past yeah but it's like brute no it's funny it's a funny word i don't but i laughed at the time and i want to drag it back up like you're on a nice little spiel and i don't want to laugh like haha brute i like it i like the heartbreak yeah continue please i think i underestimated how much of a shift that was making in terms of like me slowly liking myself and again don't know why for no rhyme or reason but i think i just slowly started to feel a little bit more um and unfortunately guys it could just come with like getting older and like your brain unlocking yeah like finally clicking into your cortex it is exactly it could just be time but i feel like over time trying not to hate myself surprise surprise it made my life easier like god how nice is that i don't know i'm just almost trying i'm trying to kind of roadmap what's gone on here because i've only ever known the bad brain day so it is quite

jarring for me and i'm also kind of thinking like i think i might be a bit of an arsehole when i'm happy and so we're gonna see how that goes i don't know i just almost think kind of in the duff way what we're talking about a couple of episodes ago about just the idea that like people like you when you're relatable in some way and then i almost think you know I'm thriving, everyone might hate me. Like it's not likeable to be good, is it? Yeah, but like do you want people to like you because of that? No, I don't. Of course not.

Like because you're not. Like that's a pretty flimsy definition of liking someone. Yeah. They like me because almost like I'm not intimidating because i'm just this depressed girl who i don't think anyone's ever seen me like that as well i think that's a real um a real lesson in perception as well because i don't see you any different now to how you were six months ago like definitely you though no i don't see the core of you any different like i definitely know yeah yeah you have you feel happier but i don't find you

more annoying any more or less jarring any more or less interesting sort of i don't know what words you said but i don't nice yeah no not at all like there's no like anyone that is liking you because you were depressed no i can get fucked like i think you can find something relatable but then i think you're no less relatable now like if anything it's just like that it's a human i just don't relate i don't relate to myself which i think is the most jarring thing does that make sense not relate to feeling good like it's like yeah okay that might feel like a foreign experience to feel like good for a to myself which i think is the most jarring thing does that make sense not relate to feeling good like it's like yeah okay that might feel like a foreign experience to feel like good for a prolonged stay um prolonged stage but i also think you can have the acknowledgement that this is a human being

trying and oh definitely that's all that's the thing is i almost feel a bit frightened by how unapologetic i am about my happiness that's fine it's a bit bizarre isn't it i think go for it just literally lean into it go for it me too yeah fuck it i don't know why literally what the fuck is that oh i'm i agree i'm i'm scared of the fact that i like being happy look if the world is telling people to be scared of that this is a fucked place i think the world is well i i think i tell myself that like oh you know what it doesn't matter we'll see what happens enjoy it well i'm you know what i'm so enjoying it but i'm finding it intriguing to kind of see my identity shifting and kind of like the way that my mood is informing my behavior and just adjusting to what the fuck

is going on i'm finding it intriguing the new normal and the new normal it truly is it could be more of an unprecedented time yeah for me personally and i'm sure most people won't notice the kind of switch as much but i just find it interesting i think you can notice a switch and i also think you can tell a lot from what you're saying like you can hear from the way you talk about your life there's definitely been a difference in it but i don't think anyone will view the core of you differently like the core of you has not changed your mood has and how you um relate to your experience of being alive 100 but i don't think anyone would want anyone if they really went down to their core underneath any shit no one wants another human to be miserable i think i just kind of maybe get oh you know what

i'm cutting this here it's been a great app it has been a great app hasn't it yeah let's go cool more on that later stay tuned guys and if you don't hear from us assume the worst wendy's small frosty is the ultimate summer refreshment. And not because it's cool and creamy and made with fresh Canadian dairy. It's also refreshingly cheap. Just 99 cents until July 14th. It's a treat for you and your wallet.