Goes Without Saying - how to survive your 20s: ...its the trenches

Episode Date: August 20, 2023

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The animal kingdom is queer and we are a part. Find a field guide to gay animals on Spotify, Apple. Or wherever you get your podcasts. ACAST helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com And this episode... Let me start again. Oh god! It goes without saying, you're listening to Goes Without Saying with Sefi and Wing.

I'm Sefi. And I'm Wing. And in this episode we're talking about being in your early 20s so this is for you that is stressed and depressed and amazingly dressed in your 20s. You're maybe 21, 22, 23, 24. You could even be 35 listening to this and I think it will still apply. I hope you are. We're talking about feeling lost, feeling like there's a plan that you're not quite hitting that you're not in the right place and I think this is a very good episode if you need to feel

comforted not alone on track there's no plan you can chill you can relax it's great news so send this to someone that kind of wants to quit their job but um isn't too scared to because i think this will motivate them so enjoy lovely hey woohoo god this feels like actually a while i think it was just last week probably yeah literally just the other day i think it was literally a week ago why does it feel like so long um i don't i felt like when we spoke today i was like god i don't feel like i've spoken to you in a while well we haven't spoken in probably about a week face to face which is actually and when i say face to face i face to face i very much mean screen to screen face face time to face time i would love to see you in real life soon me too i'll definitely be seeing you soon i'm seeing you soon because i'm dog sitting

yeah but then you're leaving that feels like um i don't know why that feels like an announcement worthy thing it is i'm really excited are you i feel bad i feel like i put you on the spot a bit not at all i'm dog sitting aussie for i don't know four or five days i can't remember what it is i am a bit nervous that like not that you're gonna harm him but like i have had some fears that he'll die on my watch just to touch wood on that quickly. Don't say that, seriously. Because I have a lot of fears about that. Like, I was telling my friend about that I'm going to dog sit your dog,

and she was like, God, you're going to kill that thing. Like, what if it dies? Who said that? I knew it. Mute that name. That's because she knows that he means a lot to me. Exactly. And then I also was like, well, I used to have fears because she used to have a little Jack Russell.

And I always, when I was like nine or something, used to have fears that I would like slam it in the door or something when it would come in the car with us. The thing that is comforting to me is that you sat, what was Joanie in Seattle? A pit bull. She was a pit bull. Yeah. And that was fine. You didn't get bit like and you were scared of her and i was terrified she got beaten though by a coyote on my watch the only thing i'm nervous about sorry i this is like life admin that i could do yeah yeah

but just to make sure you know and so that everyone's heard me say it the only thing i'm nervous about is you have to keep him on a lead like i don't this isn't a podcast where i keep my own dog on a lead god i don't let my dog don't ever let him off because he'll i would never let him off the lead i would never let him god i barely i walked my dog into town today before the before the football i'm well into the fucking lionesses way way go on girls by this time we will know whether they've won the world cup or not can't wait big news um before the football i was running into town to get coffee before the football with my sister and i walked my dog into town which usually he's quite a like he's quite agoraphobic i believe the word is okay um like he's quite um scared of people and i was quite proud of him that he went into town but

like i'm so good with dogs on a lead like i'm quite nervous i think i give them anxiety okay great because i'm so nervous you'll be an iconic duo then i can't wait match made in heaven um also just about joni getting beaten by coyotes really wasn't my fault i dealt with it really well it was all fine it literally it was just this coyote came up to her and scratched her it was it was quite crazy i was like quite upset about it was quite boring no there's no kind of he you know he's he's surrounded by other kind of actually you know what it was just a theory that it was a coyote someone said it could have been a raccoon which makes it less scary and a raccoon could have took on joni like that i think so i did hear and then she came back with blood that's what i don't horrible oh it's i know it was in the

middle of it was crazy let's shake up the the vibe I know I'm hoping it'll be really nice hot sunny you'll be swimming and oh my god I can't wait chilling out I'm thinking I'm really excited for Brighton because I have obviously I lived in Brighton with wing with me yeah um and I loved Brighton so much like i do have such fond memories of brighton but i only ever go down like for a day or to see wing sort of thing yeah i never really like i haven't had that living experience like i've obviously stayed at yours loads but i never have that living there just the memories as well on my own yeah yeah yeah i'm really excited i'm really excited as well um and ozzy will be fine you won't even

notice he's here oh boy i will notice he's gonna be my best mate for the week he'll want to be your best mate but i can't wait you know we'll see i was saying to my sister today i was like we don't really get on like he does try and gum me a lot like he tries to bite me but he does but he also wants to sit with you and i think that might bug you no that would never bug that would never bug the thing that yeah but do you remember that one time that you were sit we were sat on the sofa and we had a blanket and he went under the blanket and you were like he's like a rat on my feet he is like a rat on my feet but i don't not like rats on my feet okay i would like a rat on my foot okay like not if it's like scabbers sort of energy but i do really want to rat on my feet which we are yeah yeah but i the thing that bugs

me of him is he's very um fickle that he will if you so i do this thing where i slap his butt like he likes it though under my instruction yeah i slap slap slap the butt like kind of just like a little tap on the butt tap he likes that and then if you stop or if you just slap slightly wrong he'll turn around and get you and it's like fickle fickle boy he's a fickle friend but so i need to just learn i just need to learn the way you do you need to learn his temperament but he's fine i feel like our relationship has improved the last few times like i've just i just go straight in with the slapping just straight away spanking spanking him yeah it is he loves it yeah he loves it i'm not yeah anyway anyway yeah yeah i'm excited i was gonna say i'm not that into spanking but i was gonna say i'm

not spanking him that much that's not your main move but anyway the idea of this episode i guess is hopefully to give um i don't know if it's advice but just kind of a discussion around the idea that like we hate ourselves until it's too late yeah and the ideas that are sold to us around our 20s and what that means for women versus men and the pressures that we put on it to like be this beautiful narrative that runs a certain way and just what the reality of your 20s can actually look like aside from like the media that you're sold and like the stories that were sold around what they should be right god i would love this god do you know

what i mean i'm 21 22 it's like i see this i think yeah that's what i need 100 and i know the best bit is i won't take in a word of it it'll go right in one straight through me until i wake up one day and i'm 26 and i think oh yeah sephi and wing were right yeah but that's that's what i think i almost think the title is going to be something along the lines of the con of your 20s or like the myth yeah yes because it is almost this mythical land that we live in especially early 20s also just a straight away kind of age thing i feel like there's a myth with every age like i feel like there's a myth with every age like i feel like there's a myth of your teenage years there's a myth of your 20s myth of your 30s like or there's like a

narrative there's like an idealized image of each age your 40s your 50s like all of them but i definitely think that like society's emphasis on youth just puts pressure on you an insane amount of pressure on you in your teenage years 20s and 30s like the amount of pressure like it should look a certain way throughout these years and then i feel like it all kind of basically as soon as a woman becomes quote-unquote unfuckable but for men in society she's past the age of 35 men are done um then it's almost just like your life just blurs like it's just like 50s 60s whatever but i feel like that's actually secretly where you get your freedom in those years because you're free from

the male gaze well this is what i'm hoping is we can almost kind of cheat code the freedom like get it early if we can access that freedom that that liberation that old women feel yeah if we can hack that into our lives can you get that when you're 25 god knows if you can if you can god what i think you can i don't know if you can i think you can oh maybe i do think you can i think basically you can do crazy things in this life you can break ground for sure i love it i think you can but i think you can in your own mind in your own world which is to be honest the most important bit but i think the world will continue to treat you as a woman definitely under this patriarchy in those eyes you know sure and i think that's the hard thing to resist i think as you get older

the the world is still treating you like older older not just like our late 20s but like no when we talk about the free older woman of like she's 65 let's say yeah i think she's still it just looks different the pressures that she sold i think she's still like looked down on and sold loads i don't think she definitely is i know you're not saying she's inherently free but i think oh my god no she's not but i almost think i feel like well i know that they can't be free women of those ages because i know many women of that age that still worry about bullshit like calories and things like that but also you know that they're not free from the things that are marketed to them and advertising like there's an advert that always comes on whenever i'm in my maiden chelsea era

that i have been in for a long time maiden chelsea corsica has just come out this week i can't wait um they go on holiday like in between seasons so this is like between series 25 and 26 they've gone to corsica pushing their luck they are pushing their luck well they've done every single other one they've gone everywhere skiing thing that i'm not allowed to know about what is it i don't know where corsica is i feel like it is in greece or italy or something like that corsica sounds stunning i hope they have a lovely but they've gone to corsica um and i can't wait but there's an advert that always plays in between made in chelsea that's like it's i don't know what it's for but it's all of these women that are probably between between the ages like 40 and 60 and they're talking about what it's for, but it's all of these women that are probably between the age of like 40 and 60.

And they're talking about like, it's like a fashion company. And they are like wearing these clothes and they're like, no, this isn't my daughters and I still look hot. And then one of them's like, I don't know, they're like thriving. Definitely. This is the kind of ads that's playing in between our podcast, by the way. It's terrifying. It's terrifying. But the advert always really annoys me because I feel like they're obviously going for the angle it's a load of businessmen that have sat down and been like old women can still be hot and they're not wearing their daughter's suit um and they're kind of trying to sell this idea of empowerment but it just falls so flat like it just feels like the women do not believe it sort of it just came

comes off so weird like it's just lines that women wouldn't really say um and it just feels like the women do not believe it. Sort of it just comes off so weird. Like it's just lines that women wouldn't really say. And it just shows that there's still obviously a need for women to feel empowered. The fact that's being marketed towards women, older women. And I do find it sad that that is a thing, even though the intention I think is to empower. But it just comes off false. So I do think, of course, there's a need for older women to be like like there's no there's no freedom in this world like let's be real i also think as well like just because some of the messaging isn't talking to women who are 65 it doesn't mean they don't hear it anymore and now it's like oh not only are you saying that but you're also not talking to me it's like i

don't know which is worse also all of the things that are made that are also marketed towards women i.e i mean i have a huge issue with skincare as a whole thing as the spf kind of conversation because i mean when you're what 70 you realize that all of the people the young women are getting marketed things to prevent them looking like you it's like that's got to go in somewhere that just the natural evolution of your skin as a human being. There's this huge market of things to keep it looking young, keep it looking young. And then I don't know, it's just pretty fun. It's paedophilic. Remember, we had a whole episode on this about they want you as a 12 year old child and nothing else.

So, all right, let's focus in on the 20s. Yeah. When you think about like 20s is like as like the, like, iconic narrative, what do you think of? And how far is that from the lessons that you've learned in your own life? I think of parties. I think of, sort of, failed relationships. Like, as being the image that is sold to you of how your 20s should be. Outpartying, relationship dating, kind of mishaps.

Hijinks in Sioux. hijinks in sues um i think of friends i think of fun living together kind of like it's very communal way of living in your youth that's promoted kind of a struggle is romanticized like a financial struggle and i think in the reality that fluctuates like i do think i actually a lot of my life actually has fitted in with that kind of narrative but i also think in the times that it hasn't fitted in with that i felt pretty bad about it like right now i'm definitely not live i like i'm not living with a bunch of friends um which i miss and i definitely think it makes you feel weird that whenever you're not doing the image of what your 20s should be which should be kind of like should in quotes a very free kind of trial and error time when it's not that i think you can easily feel really shit about it because you

feel like i feel like there's a big idea of wasting wasting your 20s you're making a mistake you're wait you're not having enough fun you can't do that later it's like a big thing wasting disgusting you're wasting time i think that's a huge but i also think you get that fed even more in your 30s the idea of wasting time i think if you're not if you're not liking that now wait to your 30 guys we're gonna get it bad i think we're gonna get it because i think then you pay i think there's an idea that in your 30s you pay the price for the wasted time in the 20s bleak not great like if you could go back and speak to like your 20 21 year old self what do you think like she could have done with knowing oh that's a crazy question let me think

like just going with the in the idea that like so much fits into the narrative of like there are ups and downs there are like highs and lows in these times we can romanticize like the struggle but also there's an expectation that things will look a certain way is there anything sorry i just thought i could cut you off sorry the message is that anything good oh my god i'm so sorry no i wasn't going to i was just going to make it neat but just because you offered it but it is irrelevant the message can i also say oh no no no no you go you go you go i don't even have a good message tell me the message yeah go on go on well i was just gonna say i don't know if you saw the message no i'm joking someone said it was actually a message that we

got from the spotify on our on our last episode there's a really funny bit where sephie for whatever reason thinks that she's deleted her her beginning of the episode when actually when i was editing it she hadn't deleted it yeah but you can hear her say it in the episode sephie is like what i deleted that she's like oh sorry sorry and i'm like it's okay it's okay but then and i left it all in oh my god i haven't heard that yet i need to hear it's funny but then someone like put on the spotify like my favorite bit of the episode or whatever they responded being like i love the way you guys like are so gentle with each other it's like really gentle parenting it actually like it actually really is gentle but i'm

really gentle parenting you in that moment i'm like it's okay i'm just thinking of how the fuck we're gonna do it now but that's fine i think we say this all the time but we speak as if we've been in marriage counseling which i think is good it is good but we speak like kind of nice and like i'm feeling quite frustrated right now yeah with myself and I feel like what I need from you and I fear I'm projecting it onto others is just the space to experience that emotion I mean that's amplified no it is yeah yeah it is just a little joke yeah just a little joke but I think we do we do speak we're quite thorough very anyway go back the message that you would need here in 2021

the message the very short snappy message that i would send myself just on a little paper airplane going through the timeline of my life and lands right in my lap at uni at my 22 or whatever i think i would just send the message chill out just chill out dot chill out it's all good chill out have fun relax like don't don't don't stress that you're not having enough fun that you haven't got enough money that you haven't got um i don't know whatever you kind of want fun so i don't know what people want don't stress don't stress that is part of it like chill actually like look up from your phone like look up from your stresses and actually just like go and walk around like have fun you're 20 like chill it's actually that's the annoying bit is

like the advice that is just like chill it's so impossible at the time but it's actually long term it's really the only thing that matters i think it's affirming to know to some degree that like that if not everyone there are lots and lots and lots of people who are very like-minded to you and are feeling the exact same way that you're feeling at 21 22 23 however like wherever you're at it's it's almost part of the timeline like it's a kind of event it's almost like you actually can't interfere with no the inevitable ups and downs of growing up like some things are an integral part of the journey i remember once we had a phone call and we've spoken about it i know we've spoken about it on this podcast it was just something irrelevant that was going on like i don't even

know what it was it was whatever we were stressing about at the time yeah i remember you were 24 and we were on the phone i remember it so well i was in jack's dad's living room got i was on the phone to you and i think it was like a sunny day so i had the like doors open yeah outside maybe i remember you were like you were like i just don't know what i'm doing blah blah blah and i was like same here like yeah yeah you and me both yeah you and who's also we were still doing this at that time it's like we were doing this it was going really well it's almost like chill out no you're doing it just keep doing it really sweet um yeah but i remember saying like i think you're just 24 like i think you're just 24 in a human mood like yeah this is not like a misstep or a wrong decision or a mistake or

something that we need to work on it's just a part of being process yeah which makes it romantic and fun and kind of hot and flirty and cute because also can't you kind of feel the 50 year old version of yourself sending a little paper airplane now to you now that says chill out i can see that and she says chill out you silly sweet child because also there's you we were 24 and now we're like oh 24 is like no now we're 26 it's like oh 26 like chill and i feel like on a personal level the leaps the jump that i've made from like in those couple years like i feel actually literally quite unrecognizable like i do feel like a different person like i feel not like oh i feel like a different person so much has changed i feel like such a different person like in my core being yeah the growth is really strange like my i i almost don't recognize

my own mind like yeah yeah like i'm i'm getting i'm really feeling like i'm getting to know like a new version of myself in a really positive sense and that is like hugely affirming to me that you can you can do a lot yeah like you yeah you can push through a lot of the shit yeah in life you you really can if i can do it fucking hell like if i can do silly little things come on i was definitely i was talking about this yesterday actually with my sister and we're talking about like how far even six months changes things like if i think about things i worried about six months ago or like things the way i thought even six months ago so different now like things that would stress me out wouldn't really stress me out now it's just

like almost the growth is so invisible until you have hindsight you can't monitor it every day you can't be like oh um today I feel different from yesterday yesterday I feel different the day before really in in terms of you can you can in terms of mood but i don't think you can so much in terms of like actual long-term growth incremental moves yeah but you can look back on it's kind of like you don't notice your hair growing and then you look down it's like god it's god six months ago what the hell yeah yeah but so we just had a haircut by the way yeah my sister cut and dyed my hair last night and i'm in love i like it's perfect it's dreamy like it really suits your personality i agree it suits your like it's perfect it's dreamy like it really suits your personality i agree it suits your look it's just like a little blonde bob and i've gone

my fringe a little bit shorter as well not too short still on the eyebrow line i would say just below yeah but almost like it's not so much of a curtain bang anymore it's very much back to my full fringe ways and i'm in love with it i literally love it um but yeah you can't monitor your hair growing um day in day out day in day um but yeah you can't monitor your hair growing um day in day out day in day out but then you can look back and be like fucking hell it grew a lot and i do think it's the same like i can look back now a year ago and be like jesus christ different person even so much no one else would notice it but it's just you know in yourself it's like fucking hell different that's different what's one of the main differences do you think

um for you personally oh my god i don't i don't even know if they're particularly like explainable like they're not even necessarily like i think i just feel very different in myself like yeah i feel um i do you know what i think my new year's resolution has come quite true i do feel definitely softer with my life more relaxed more kind of um accepting of the timeline of my life and my and just myself i think i feel very like loving towards everyone myself and things like that and that's nice just all of the things how you'd want to feel i think i feel a lot of it um in in myself how were the how are some of the ways that you think you've changed i mean i feel like we you we talk about this all the time we know it but i feel like let's get you to say it again because it is so

stunning well i just almost think in the sense that i guess when we're talking about like some level of confidence that comes for like um just getting older and just through life experience and stuff i just almost feel like i have found a little bit of a cheat code in that like okay i'm still in my um patriarchal prime i'm still in my social like socialized prime i'm still in my 20s yeah and i've i feel like i've found access to my life for the first time like i really feel in control of my life i feel very confident in myself and i feel like i'm very like i'm very excited for my life like i really like when i go to bed i'm like woohoo tomorrow i think the excitement is actually one of the main things. Like excitement is, if you're feeling shit, you can't feel excited.

It's like you need that. You need some sort of life fuel. Because it's essentially, if you water it down, it's like hope. If you're not excited, you're hopeless. And then there's no point in being here. And so the kind of like antonym of that would be to feel really excited and um yeah like there's a purpose in being here i just feel very confident and very like free i think a part of it as well like this is not relatable i guess apart from you you can probably relate to it sephie but like

having something like goes without saying where you get to talk to yeah the galleys and like that is something that's very affirming on like a huge life like long-term scale like i remember we had um we went to an event in manchester and we met loads of dreamy like the sweetest listeners you've like the sweetest people in the world they were there yeah because they listened to us bizarre like that's amazing and i came away from that thinking like that was kind of something that i wanted to do like by the time i was like 90 or something like almost like that is such a long-term goal to like be able to look someone in the eye kind of as a stranger but know that like you've had some sort of impact yeah on their life in a

small way yeah that's like a huge lifelong weird mission yeah and i and i did it with you and we were 26 like that is really special and i can't help but be changed by that like i'm i'm 100 percent um more i don't know it just almost fills you up with so much love yeah yeah it is um that was a weird experience i sent you a photo of it really recently just out of nowhere just sent like the photo of just like everyone it's just like that is like it was it took me a while to process that that had happened and then i feel like now because there's been some space between us and that event now i look back it's like what what like that was that is insane that was an insane experience i i thought a lesson that i

would draw from that isn't necessarily like okay guys start a podcast like even though i would say that to my younger self i would say like yeah like when that comes about definitely do it yeah when you and seppi start having that conversation definitely entertain like look away from the tv when that comes yeah like you should definitely do that yeah yeah like don't push that down like keep going with that but i don't even know if the advice would be like yeah you need to kind of like when we were saying like oh doing something or like having something really amazing of course gonna make you feel better you can't like schedule in winning the x factor every week like you can't schedule in like huge life achievements

and you know you might disagree but i think that's a huge life achievement to like what we had like what i just described at manchester but even though that isn't necessarily something that i can say oh yeah just go out and do that what i take from that like if i was to go back in time the lesson or like the advice that i would give myself would be to really like make the effort to start integrating real practical things into my life that really feel aligned with me and my purpose and my values and like make me feel really really good as a as a human being on earth like do things that really like play badminton for example sephie is a big badminton girly it's like just play badminton then yeah like you know if you

want to integrate look i will be there with you whilst you integrate that into your life like i think we should do that but i think just anything that means i'm just brushing it away i don't know where to start i've got you a racket no you haven't well i've got a lot of rackets and there's one with your name on it is it personalized with my name on it no it's like from the 1800s from my grandma's house from her shed it's like literally covered in spider's webs you said i've stocked up in shutterclocks but is that something you need to stock up on do they go bad no basically so we don't like i'm not someone that like has badminton rackets in my house sort of thing like i don't like i'm not someone that like has badminton rackets

in my house sort of thing like i don't really it's not really a thing we'd have probably like in our shed there's somewhere someone that's some that's broken but like my at my grandma's house that's where we had where i discovered badminton because she she had this put this net up and like it's like jumanji it's like an old board game you like uncovered the world of badminton it was so weird but my grandma has this shed it's called percy's shed which is the name of the cat that literally died before i was born but it's always been called percy shed oh really so cute percy um and in there there's like loads of like old sort of things there's like um one of the things is kind of um skin colored tights that have been cut at

the crotch with a tennis ball in that you kind of whack against the wall like this and that's fun it was really weird like me and my sister used to think that was such a good game when we were younger but it's literally a tennis ball in an old pair of stockings like it's really weird that she has that it's like victorian games in there you just it's almost like you hit it against the wall like you stand with your back against a wall and then you just it's almost like you hit it against the wall like you stand with your back against a wall and then you just hit it all around you and you might like lift your leg up and hit it under your leg like things like that it's a bit kind of circus clown yeah yeah it's like definitely some kind of victorian game like i don't know what it is but i used to play

it when i was a kid that's cool i don't really know how you play it you just hit hit the tights against the wall sounds like you won so i i would win every time yeah world champion of that game but in there there were like loads of badminton rackets like wooden badminton rackets like really old and my mum arrived back from hers the other day and was like look what i've got and it was like loads of shuttle cocks like really old ones and like loads of these like old wooden badminton rackets and i was like perfect just what i need kind of macaulay culkin home alone yeah it's like music to my ears i'm bringing one to brighton don't you think like are you really yeah me and ozzy are gonna go play oh i'm gonna i'm gonna definitely play badminton when i'm in brighton how i'm gonna like rent a

thing oh really if someone does someone want to come play badminton with me oh they definitely do no they definitely do anyone in brighton between the dates of the 28th and something come play badminton with me actually message me because i actually do need a badminton partner yeah no you'll definitely like i genuinely would love yeah you should but don't you think like this believe it or not ties into the bigger conversation i think the crux of even the thing of like your 20s and the advice that i would give myself is the idea of like integrating things that mean something to you or like bring you like a real small moment of happiness building like flooding your life out like drenching your life in like loads of little moments that bring you happiness

is how you create a long-term happy life and how you end up looking back and thinking oh yeah i enjoyed my early 20s and other people might not feel the same way about the things that you choose to do and i feel like that's one of the cruxes of the time is like looking around and being like oh we're spending our 20s different or like oh they did that i haven't done that yet we're on different timelines why are we choosing different things or feeling like disconnected with people in your life or like you're not doing enough or you're you're being left behind someone might want to play badminton and you don't want to play badminton and that is how life is supposed to be like even though i will play i will play i'm just you know i'm you know just whilst my badminton era is lasting like it'll probably be done i don't want to miss it i don't want to i think you might be a star onto it well

yeah yeah no i thought so too it's funny that you'd say that yeah yeah i really like that though because i really agree because do you not think we were talking quite recently about like you can have big achievements in your life like you can have kind of the things sorted you can have your boxes ticked of like the societal timeline bullshit but or you'll be feeling good in your life basically but if your day-to-day looks shit then it's all to play for like your mood and everything is all to play for and your mental health because it really is about your the day-to-day and this is why a lot of well i think a lot of celebrities are struggling like are depressed and stuff because you can have the grammy you can have the marriage to uh who's a star pedro pascal let's say nice would be divine like you can have all of the stuff you can be living in a mansion but your day-to-day looks

like scrolling through fucking fan accounts of yourself you're very detached from everyone like be crazy well i was actually thinking about pedro pascal and i feel like he he went to margate recently to go look at a thing and it was a fan museum of him and i was just thinking about him oh wow it's just a thing um and i feel like he quite loves his fans that's where that came from yeah no i definitely think he loves his fans he loves almost like i've seen him in touch with the fan accounts he likes the the meme of it like he's unashamed of the conversation of being like a hot guy on the internet that people kind of love it's cool love that for him it's the way to do it

i'm not saying he's detached but you could have your dream life and you could still be very detached from like real connection you could be i don't know just your life could be very bleak if your day-to-day looks bleak yeah and actually if you have if you could have absolutely none of the achievements or like the quote-unquote success that society wants you to have or doesn't really want you to have but if your day looks like something you're happy with you get up you have your cup of coffee in the sun in the morning you've got your dog there um kind of you go to the cinema in the evening i'm doing my dream day you eat a delicious lunch like all of the stuff you see some friends all of the stuff you read your book whatever that really and then you do that again the next day and the next day or whatever

but if your day-to-day like essentially your habits aren't yeah up to scratch yeah you've really not got a lot no it's true and i think as well what is um a real bummer oh god go on well the idea that like if you think about a timeline that we were probably sold of like go to uni graduate uni get a job that you hate yeah it's it's hardly building habits that are meaningful to you no it's it's really difficult i think to hold on to some sense of um kind of excitement and purpose even and purpose when you're spending so much time building into habits that don't mean anything to you and that is a lot harder to like almost deal with and like navigate because we're not about to just turn up to the podcast and be like yeah quit your job and do something you love

haha yeah like it isn't that easy it's definitely something that we should all have in mind and like try and maintain as much as possible like hold on to your sense of self as much as possible but why life feels so unfair i think is because we're constantly being shoved the idea of like everything we should be doing and all the amazing things that it feels like everyone else is doing meanwhile that's all very out of reach for us not just because we're in a stinky mood or like we weren't good enough but because there were like real life limitations by design in place it's very much by design yeah so i think having that idea of like it's kind of what i always say of like there are so many things fighting against you don't add yourself to that list of

like all of the shit that you've got to deal with and then you're also going to add being an arsehole to yourself on top. It's just not ideal. No. No. Wendy's Small Frosty is the ultimate summer refreshment. And not because it's cool and creamy and made with fresh Canadian dairy. It's also refreshingly cheap. Just 99 cents

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Is so gay. These rams are gay. I'm studying gay animals. Does that mean I'm gay? So why don't more people know this? I'm Owen Ever. I'm Lane Kaplan-Le't more people know this? I'm Owen Ever. I'm Lane Kaplan-Levinson. And this is a field guide to gay animals.

A podcast about queerness in the natural world. The animal kingdom is queer and we are a part. Find a field guide to gay animals on Spotify, Apple. Or wherever you get your podcasts. or wherever you get your podcasts. Acast helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts. Everywhere. Acast.com But also, that is even by design.

Like, all of it is by design. Like, there is... It is very much sort of predestined for people to like the societal barriers are there but it is also um by design that then you become a barrier to yourself as well like yeah it is um very very hard to break the like idea of what you should be doing because of the ideas of like stability money like all the things that you need to have in life but then also there becomes this like secondary like things that you don't need but things that you quote unquote should have like success basically that it's like do you actually

need that like or do you even to be honest want that like what that actually looks like the things that you're chasing i think you get stuck in um going for the next promotion or whatever but it's like like if you actually think like there's a lack of intention i saw a thing it was on tiktok actually like everything that everyone fucking sees on fucking tiktok i say that like it's like god it was actually it's actually on tiktok it's like of course it was on tiktok it's like yeah everyone is on tiktok like everything else like i'm not the first person to scroll through fucking tiktok um but it was a woman she was sitting in her it looked absolutely stunning she was sitting in like a camper van or like a some sort of thing she had the doors open and she was like i was just sitting here and a voice came to me and it said oh you should sit outside harry i now speak directly to you

and it was just said it is said oh i should say it's going to kill i think it's going to kill um it was like the voice in her mind the parcel tongue in her mind was like oh you should sit outside it's a nice sunny day you should sit outside and she was like hang on whose voice is that brackets voldemort whose voice was that i should and she was like whenever i have that narrative in my mind i think can i say either of these two statements with truth can i say it's either i want to or i need to i need to sit outside not true i want to sit outside also not true then who the fuck told me i should sit outside not true yeah and then someone had commented underneath which i thought was amazing.

It was like, let me get it right, though, because I actually can't remember. It was like, oh, man. Right. Let me get it. You've got it. It's like, if it's not a should, it's a could. It's like, it's not you should sit outside, but you could. You could do that.

But do you want to? No. It's like, it's a nice sunny day. I'm reading them in my beautiful camper van with a cup of tea oh my god get me there get me there like send me your address um but it's like do you want to no i'll fucking sit inside like yeah should fuck that it's like oh i should get that next promotion do i want to no do i need to no fuck that then don't need to shouldn't well kind of it's like oh you identified that it was someone else's voice it was society's voice that's what it was it was the voice of pressure it was pressure it was just societal pressure coming in and being like you should be married by 30 do you need to no do you

want to no no who tells me i fucking should then okay so if so much has changed in a year and so much has changed throughout the early 20s where would you want to be in a year's time not even shoulds but like if we could hope yeah once needs let's have the bit of hope and once yeah it's the sims it's you know what are you wanting let's have a bit of hope for sure what could we hope for in the next year for you personally like like very much like what do i want next year to look like yeah hmm let's have a time to be all of a sudden well i just think i have so i think i'm a very hopeful and like excited person like i think i very much live in like good like almost like good faith but to the extreme almost delusional faith like i it's the

only way i am really excited for everything to come like i think next by so this so kind of wednesday the whatever is for us today in 2024 i think i would love to be living back with friends again like in a house fun house um whether that be london or somewhere new or whatever i would love to have like maintained really close relationships with my family and friends i would like to um be doing this absolute thriving i would love us to have some money that would be so nice if we like were maybe a bit rich and could like do things I would love to have enough money to both rent a house and also go keep these holidays rolling go and do some fun stuff um I would love to be like in quite a good kind of yoga practice I would like to be like really feeling

quite um embedded in that um and I think I would like to um be just really like present with everything and like be like loving the fun loving the mistakes loving everything and I think that sounds oh my god I would love it to be like that that's really nice to be present how would you want yours to be well what makes you say present can I quickly ask present is like I think I was going to be like I think I would love to be really happy and it's like no I actually don't think one I don't think it's sustainable and two I don't think it's like well two I one I don't think it's sustainable. And two, I don't think it's like, well, two, I, one, I don't think it's sustainable too. Therefore I don't think it's attainable. Like it, you can't, I can't be like, I want to be happy on the Wednesday of the blah, blah, blah, blah. Cause

it's like, no, I think I just want to be present with all of it. Like I'm, I don't think I'm feeling particularly scared of, um, feeling shit right now. i know i actually know because i have um i've had a lot i feel like of it i've done a lot in this life i've lived a lot of different places i've done i pushed myself a lot i've had a lot of different iterations i feel like i know that when you place the answer or anything so for example the first thing i said was like oh i want to be living in a house of london it's like look i've done that three years, different houses, blah, blah, blah. I know that you still feel shit there. I know that, oh, I want to be traveling. I want to go somewhere really cool. I know that you still feel shit there. I know that if you get the dream job, you still feel shit there. Like,

I know it. So I don't think I want to be, oh, I want to be thriving and happy and blah, blah, blah. I just want to be like, present and living. And like, really there and in it i think that's my only if i'm like uh if i die at fucking 102 touch wood can't wait for the day to 102 well not can't wait to die but 102 sounds good yeah it's good going yeah um then i do think i wouldn't be i would i would be more happy with myself if like i was so happy throughout my whole life it's like no i think i would love to be i'm so present i've had so many experiences i've really like felt it all and just like being there that feels better that's nice yeah can't argue with that where would you want to be this exact 3 57 p.m on a wednesday in august in 2024 um i think i agree with everything you said i think as well like i feel like my 20s for

me have been about learning so many things but part of it and i think part of it that i really want to like hold on to that i feel like i'm really getting to grips with now and my advice that i would give to myself is kind of the idea of like i feel like i'm at a point where i'm really learning to like try and i'm very like free to like try things oh that's really nice yeah i feel like i'm in a real thing of just like i'm just trying i know i'm saying no to badminton but i'm just no but you oh i'm not taking no for an answer you know i'm you know i'm actually like unconsentingly going to drag you to a court yeah drag me kicking and screaming i'll do it um i feel like i'm really at a place where i'm like willing to try more than i ever have been

before in my life and i think if there's one thing that I could say like that feeds into the kind of stereotypical narrative of what my 20s could be it's the idea of like trying and failing and trying again doing something else seeing how I remember coming to the podcast like a couple of years ago and being like I feel like it's when we were just doing Mondays I was like I feel like I come on every Monday and like just try on a new wing and then like change out next week like I feel like I come on every Monday and like just try on a new wing and then like change out next week. Like I feel like I just came every week, like just trying on a new thing for size and like seeing how I feel. And I feel like letting go of some of the pressure around things having to be a certain

way or things have to be perfect and just embracing like, what would I want to try? And letting myself try and be a bit shit or like try and let it go nowhere and and just just try for the sake of trying has been really fun and important i think in like building the identity of someone who is like confident in themselves and likes themselves i like myself enough to like still like myself when I fail and like myself enough to feel like I deserve to try that lesson has been really important and really fun and something that I think is kind of the crux of my 20s and something that I would want to hold on to so I hope that in a year's time I'm still like feeling very free to just to try to try and just um just feeling free i think i love that i feel like it's so

the tip the word was on the tip of my tongue the whole way through you're saying it and then you said it right there the identity i feel like trying is so important because just even the willingness to try because we get so fixed and i think if you're whatever age but if this is particularly direct to like early 20s it already feels like you're whatever age but if this is particularly directed like early 20s it already feels like you're already fixed in a certain identity that you've already chosen certain subjects or whatever you've already chosen a certain job or whatever like you've chosen certain people to be around you you're already fixing yourself in for your life and i feel like that fluidity of identity that comes with trying just being like for example willing

to try badminton what the fuck is the most uncool thing you could want to do i'm so suddenly i'm going to try sculpture i'm going to try going for a walk every day i'm going to try phoning my mate whatever the fuck you want to do yeah random shit i do feel like you find different paths that actually lead you to unexpected places like the worst case scenario i think the worst case scenario is getting to that fucking 102 how old we're all gonna be 350 of elon sorts of shit out works it all out see you there see you there um the worst thing would be like oh yeah what i was doing when i was 16 still what i'm doing still what i'm doing at that time it's like i actually think you i don't know i want to go on a big

journey i'm not going to put that on everyone i want to go on like a journey with it all and end up kind of the same but different and all of the stuff like i want to have tried loads of stuff i think the worst thing would be not being willing being closed the whole time because then you do get to an age where it feels too late to do things and that's also a lie in loads of ways but i do think like whilst you're young you have the privilege of everything being very very actually like attainably possible like if you want to start walking well good thing your legs still work you can actually fucking do it like you can actually do it you want to go um bleach fucking blonde whatever you want to do you can actually do it because your hair's not gonna fucking fall out like you actually have the luxury of having like a working body which is one

of the main prohibitors that's going to come later for us all so let's like actually use it and do good things that's nice i'm happy to get the hell out of here then cool i hope you've enjoyed it me too i think you have okay good i suddenly just had a bit like oh was that good i don't know i think it was good you kind of black back out and then you come back and it's like yeah exactly episode now it's a classic i'm so good it's like right that goes in the bank then with the other episodes that we've done it's always like another one bites the dust it's so i guess that's how it works it's almost like we did that sits on the internet forever it's like how strange it's so i guess that's how it works it's almost like we did that sits on the internet forever it's like how strange it's like before like an hour ago that didn't exist it's really weird

try something i was thinking this the other day we used to say this all the time but like and i'm i'm quickly i'm gonna be quick i'm gonna wrap this up because i don't want to sit in it i could sit here all day but the idea of like and it's not a big deal and i'm sure most people don't care but i know me and you care that like where there was a gap in the universe yeah stephanie win came and filled it like that didn't have to happen that wasn't like written out in the in destiny scripture it was like it was personally well maybe it was but like that easily could have not happened like that whole there was a little gap for us and we didn't know that there was a gap but that just squeezed in somewhere and then all of a sudden it's like oh i'm in the i'm in it if you think there's no room for you somewhere i reckon you can squeeze your way in i think that

goes back to exactly what you were saying about trying though exactly of like all we filled that gap from nothing else but trying like and not everyone's gonna like it yeah not at all not everyone's gonna be like oh great badminton sounds amazing oh yeah you should definitely do a podcast like it is about just it's your fucking life yeah it is and the world is like it's quite crazy it is kind of your playground like it is your oyster it's literally your oyster it is literally your oyster slash playground like you can just go and what are you good at what do you want to go do like at least today just worry about it tomorrow at least for the rest of the day we can chill we can do what we want today we can worry about everything else

tomorrow let's just have fun today let's have fun okay cool well we won't have fun we're gonna record the next one we're recording back to work see you in a minute so hard oh my god it's like the worst if you don't hear from us assume the worst