Goes Without Saying - imperfections & forgiveness: long story short, you survived
Episode Date: July 19, 2023staying up to spiral over the embarrassing thing you said in year 10 is a full time job <3join the conversation every monday.shop our merch: sephyandwing.co.ukspeak your mind on the @sephyandwing i...nstagram. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
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Goes Without Saying.
You're listening to Goes Without Saying with Sefi and Wing.
I'm Wing.
And I'm Sefi.
And we're back.
The Fairy Pod Mothers are back for another episode.
And this is all about reflecting
on our past and learning to break through the shame and hatred and all those girly things
and move into a space of looking at who we've been in our younger selves with a little bit of kindness
and a little bit of love this is a great episode if you want a little bit of reassurance that you're
doing okay send this to your mates who are needing a little bit of extra love in this time of hardship on earth
and hopefully we'll see you next time enjoy
all right god i'm not gonna lie it's our third attempt i think it's our fourth
that last one was our third and we got a good five
minutes in before we were like no no no i think it was let's bring the penny pizzazz to this one
this has to be right whatever happens in this is going happens what happens on the podcast stays
all right well how are you going how are you doing over there i'm doing good i'm doing a lot better
than i was last week which is so fucking nice it
was definitely in second wing terms assume the worst times she was in the pits it was the pits
it was the absolute pits but i'm feeling i'm coming out of the pits i'm clawing my way out
of the pits i'm feeling clawing your way straight to the microphone straight to work straight to the
microphone and i'm happy to be here nice yeah me too i'm excited because we're doing multiple episodes in the day which is kind of throwing us back to the podmas vibes of where
we start to get lisa's goose lisa's geese that's one of my favorite things i love when we get
lisa's geese and it just goes we just we get looser as we go on as each ep goes on it just
gets slightly looser and slightly should we. Should we go straight in? Yeah.
This is going to be an interesting one, I think,
because it's something, can I actually tell you what always,
what is kind of the epitome of this like topic for me?
I'm going to start with my favourite place.
It's Taylor Swift City.
Let's do it.
Shall we say, I think people know,
but should we say that you got tickets?
Oh my God, this is our first episode back since i got the tickets jesus guys
fully in the trenches i'm not gonna that was a stressful day i mean that was a stressful time
i knew no i knew nothing of this was going on i just got to reap the rewards of it but you went
through hell i assume you did i you know what like i've seen a lot of people talking about how the uk
ticket master situation was nothing compared to the us and i think that's true um but they you
look oh i'm not going to get into it too much but you could be queuing for hours and hours right and
then they place you you can hear the fury starting to come out yeah then they place you in a randomized
queue guess where i was fucking 35 000 way in the back i was screaming in the back saying
guys guys i'm over here wait up don't go without me literally screaming from the peripheries they
didn't let me in cut to didn't stand a chance had to try again then i was like 25 000 i got quite
unlucky with the queues but anyway we've got tickets i'm very happy i can't though they did
say yesterday they've made a lead like card holder
like lead booker event but it wasn't at the time of the pre-sale so it means that because i paid
on my boyfriend's card oh god he needs to come with us jack's the one jack's going on his own
bye have the time of your life at the eras tour so i don't know i've already like we'll just we'll
see what happens i imagine it's all just gonna sort itself out i imagine so too i imagine somewhere down the line
it'll all just work itself out i had quite a funny thing oh no go on no go you go well i was just
gonna say you know if anyone's worrying about it if you bought tickets at pre-sale like i did which
shout out to me in october pre-ordering midnight yeah i'm looking at my vinyl over there yeah i remember that at the time being like this is gonna save us in the long run it really i don't
even have a record player and i was like fuck it i'm pre-ordering them ordering the midnight's
vinyl um for anyone worried if you got pre-sale tickets like i did at the time there's loads of
like confirmation like emails from ticket master and like statements
and stuff saying that it's not going to be a lead booker event they have now said that it is a lead
booker event event do you know what i mean this is the stuff that happens to you when you start
looking for taylor swift tickets you start coming out with all this technology i didn't know anything
about restricted side view vip i've gone insane honestly but anyway we've got tickets it's gonna be all right
um what were you going on about well it was just quite funny yesterday my i was meeting my friend
for dinner and she was like i've got huge news and i was getting extremely excited like god i
can't wait to hear what the fuck is this gonna be like i my mind is doing um sort of what pad
fiction as on the on the drive there I'm like, who has she met?
What's going on?
Like, oh, my God.
Yeah, what is going on?
It's going to be the sort of story of the ages.
And I was like, is it a date?
When I saw her, I was like, please let it be like a date or something really fun like that.
And she was like, it's a date with Taylor Swift.
I'm going to see Taylor Swift.
And I was like, oh, no, so am I.
And she was like, what the fuck?
You've ruined my big news. I was like, how so am i and she was like what the fuck you've ruined my big news
and you've just hopped in like you don't even like her that much you didn't you didn't even
do anything you just sat around doing this because also i i like her it's the seffy way
i like her yeah it is the the seffy way she coasts through just because she gets what she needs just guys
yeah literally just do nothing and things work out um find yourself front row at the
iris tour honestly like the the the challenges but she was like i had to take the morning off
work to try and get these tickets like well this is what i was she was like you don't understand
no you actually don't understand because i was legitimately thinking if i had a real job there's no way i would have been able
to get these tickets and if i didn't have access to my boyfriend's credit card i wouldn't have been
able to get these tickets so we'll see i'm really excited me too i can't wait for the outfits also
i did actually i put this on threads and i said to my boyfriend like when i put i put on instagram like yay got
tickets woohoo so happy the amount of like actual happiness and the response like people were so
happy to see that i'd got tickets it actually it might it really ranks up there with like some of
the most meaningful moments that i've had in terms of like love and connection
from this podcast like it really was like if you're happy for me to get tickets yeah to an
artist that maybe you love or you at least know that i love like that is so it's really sweet
it's really pure and sweet it's just it really that like actually meant so it's like god you
you think highly of me yeah no
they want you to see i'm deserving of good things that's really nice i'm not gonna lie though i was
getting quite fumigated the other day because i know someone who was like running a bot to get
tickets to like scalp the tickets so what does that mean running a bot it means like people coming in
running bots on like through the technology and stuff not genuine fans to resell
the tickets for like a grand each yeah that's fucked and you know people doing that i don't
know the people doing it but i know people that know people like i know i heard basically i heard
through the grapevine i'm not gonna name names it does sound like a shit show though like the
the queue system from what i've
heard from you and my friend that took the morning off work to live in this hellhole yeah the ticket
master hellhole like i don't understand how look i'm not here to shit on taylor swift because i'm
sure she has nothing to do with it but yeah i don't know how the artists are okay with some of
the prices going out there and also some of these cues like
it is kind of insane to make your fans wait through that well taylor did a huge you remember
she did like a huge announcement like she didn't say fuck ticket master but she was like this is
why the uk one has been so much better than the us god it was worse and what happened with the
american oh my god the americans didn't stand a chance i mean that's a
nightmare it was it's actually been quite crazy but i'm really excited i'm almost thinking we're
gonna do a bit of a um full tour exploration of taylor swift and her discography in between now
and our date amazing i can't wait i also think i can't wait so it was quite funny because when my friend
was saying like what day she was going on i was like she was like what day are you going i was
like i don't know but i know that it's the day after joe jonas's birthday so to find out the
day that i'm going i had to google joe jonas's birthday which is the 15th and then we're going
on the 16th 16th yeah we were originally going on the 16th 16th yeah we were originally gonna go on the
15th honestly i just we were originally gonna go on joe jonas's birthday but the only thing i knew
is that i'm going to see taylor swift the day after joe jonas's birthday so i had to really
find the information but the reason i bring her up i promise it was for good reason is because i
feel like this whole conversation kind of i feel like she epitomizes for me or has made me question
this kind of whole topic um more than ever really and it's the way that i'm essentially watching a
woman now in her 30s in her early 30s with the kind of reclaiming and re-recording of her previous
work publicly revisit and not only acknowledge but like celebrate who she was when she was 25 21 19 18 15
like taylor swift i think and with the era's tour we'll soon see looks back on all of her previous
iterations of like who she's been and what she's done at least publicly with like a real strong
sense of um like love and compassion for her previous self and i think it's something that
is very rare and not something that i think comes naturally to us as people as young women like you
know the drill so i just thought it'd be an interesting conversation of like how do you feel about who you've been i know we're so embarrassing i know we're so cringe
but where are you what kind of relationship do you have with your past selves it's so funny because
i do feel like i see a lot of selves like i almost see an era's tour for myself of like right okay
there's the there are all those eras like it's not just like oh my child self and then me it's like god yeah there are fucking stages of this
shit like when i feel like i always think back to like my child self like if i'm like oh would my
who i would my younger self be proud of me or like what would my younger self think about that i
really do have a specific image in mind that comes to me every single time which was like me i don't know almost what year
i would have been but like almost like a year five year six sort of girl yeah um and i can really
just feel my level of like um confidence and like self-assuredness in it because i think i can really track i think basically puberty is when all of the shit sort of starts to come in like
self-doubt realizing you're a woman in this world and all of the stuff i think i can really track
um a huge peak in my confidence at like that those at certain ages but i think i i can really feel a sense of like purity in like
that slightly prepubescent age and i think i feel really good towards that i feel like i feel
where the mess starts to come in is definitely through the teenagers teenage years and there's
like a million stages to it but i think i feel hugely positive about the decisions I've made who I am um my beliefs and like what I've
done and like how I think and all that stuff like there are loads of things I'm like god I could
have done without fucking farting in the drama class once that was embarrassing
fart joke fart joke literally all aboard I could have done without little embarrassing things but you know
what i do really look back with like a huge fondness yeah towards all iterations of myself
have you always or is that something that's changed over time because i think i i don't i
think i don't struggle to look back on myself I think the thing that I
find hard is to be like oh me I don't because also throughout those times I don't think if I felt of
myself positively necessarily yeah but I think I can always look back with love and see the journey
I think the thing that's the struggle is then being like okay so if that girl that like um 18
year old girl that 22 year old girl that
seven year old girl deserves love does the version that i'm in now deserve to be like
herself and loved for just whoever she is i think that's the bit that i struggle to connect but yeah
i think i've always felt like um i i just yeah i think i've always felt like that what about you i think that's quite um impressive really because i think
it's i i kind of i think there are different ways of looking at it i definitely see as well the idea
that like we have so much like insecurity ingrained in us that the hindsight allows us to look back
and think oh maybe i wasn't that bad sort of thing and you can kind of compare like oh I wasn't actually ugly when I was 11 I just thought I thought I was actually like a little
cutie girl whatever um so I get that but I also think generally like having fondness and like
almost a confidence and like a self-assuredness in like the decisions you've made and being able
to like own the embarrassing stuff is like a real um skill but something to be really
proud of i think it says a lot about who you are in your present day if you're able to look back
like even if you're not the biggest fan all the time yeah who you are right now i think who you
are right now must be pretty all right I mean you know how I feel about
you I think you're amazing but like I think it's pretty cool to be able to like look back and know
that you've always felt relatively good in like who you are and like the things you've done yeah
there are definitely points that like if I think about certain points within my life I'm like oh
yeah that was a hard time like there
were certain things that like I was doing that made my life harder or like that was a real struggle
but I don't feel any embarrassment or shame or anything about any of my like there's no bit of
me of my like story that I would cover up in any way sort of thing have you always been like that you always felt
i think so i can't think of a time that i've been like oh god let's just pretend that whole era
whatever didn't happen like let's pretend that or like um let's just pretend year 11 didn't happen
or like oh god let's not talk about um that holiday or like all of it this is what i mean
that you are really um you do have that
something that special something i love when you say this because it's so kind it's just so true
it's literally i'm just it's straight facts like it's so objectively true that like you do have
a kind of natural level of confidence to who you are as a human being like you do think quite highly of yourself as you should
but even i just think naturally like you can be really critical of who you are in the moment and
yeah it goes without saying like i won't labor the point like you can be really way too hard on
yourself and and you know yeah but generally to be able to look back like with a fondness at who you've been in
the past i think is a really special thing because we're told to be ashamed of who we are and like
not being good enough or like not doing well enough or not looking good enough or not doing
the right thing oh god and that shit eats me alive like that is uh like i mean look at me last week
maybe i wouldn't be saying the same things like that I was consumed with the idea that I'm completely failing completely not good enough all of the
stuff last week but I still think I know that I felt like that um when I was 14 17 all of these
ages but I can still look back and be like oh that's like a worthy human being i wouldn't um yeah censor that from my memory of that person
and i think like when i'm 35 i will look back at me now at 26 and be like yeah no still still
happy with the decision still proud of the like everything yeah i think that's so special
because i i hate that that's special though like because i do think like do you know
what i'm kind of i don't think you should take it for granted i don't know that's really nice
i don't think it's a florence given in this world it makes me think of quite a random thing um and
i don't know what the general consensus of her at the moment is i think at the time the consensus
of her was very great and this is when i watched this documentary but now i believe there are some things i've seen that i'm not a huge fan of okay
jesse from little mix ah yes okay jesse from little right yeah don't know what's going on
with her now at the time she made a documentary this was i don't know five years ago made a documentary on iplayer that was about kind of
her struggles in a girl band blah blah blah but her therapy that she had like a lot of her therapy
was about like she had tried to blank out this like era of her life where she was like on x
factor and she was like the one that was forced to wear like i don't know sort of baggy clothes and be
like singing raps and stuff and it's like wait but that isn't necessarily me like and i'm next
to these other girls that maybe aren't having to do that but obviously have other struggles
um and she i don't know that like a load of the therapy was that she was like having to make peace with this like past version of herself that she was like so mortified about and like wanted to cover up but
she couldn't because it was all over the internet and it was just quite interesting to me at the
time because i remember thinking god that would be really traumatic to have such a negative
view to the point that you want to erase it and just be like oh let's like not like i don't
feel any love towards that version of me even though that was the version of me that got me
like all of the success and all of the stuff that she had slash has i don't know what she's doing
now we can leave it in the past tense i reckon don't know what you're doing now jesse i haven't
seen great things um but yeah i just thought it was interesting that it's like
oh my god it must be so traumatic to be able to like pinpoint a version of yourself that's like
this version here between the years of 2011 and 2015 makes me like want to cry like i feel so
much shame around it yeah i don't think that is a given i don't think i think that is i reckon that's much more
of a common experience it's definitely something i've felt for like the majority of my life up
until like last year or something what that you would look back so if i was to say therapy yeah
any version if i was to say think of your 12 year old self you wouldn't be able to look at that with love i would now but before no so what would
you feel shame i would feel shame and embarrassment okay well what if we went really younger five
oh yeah i mean the cuter you get the easier it is well it's almost like the more innocent like
it's like you can object you know five-year-olds and i know some fucking bratty 12 year olds but
like i know five-year year olds and they're all
pretty, they're all as innocent as can fucking get.
Well, it's funny because I always would have thought that she was innocent.
I just would have thought she wasn't good enough.
But I almost feel like in, especially like youth, it's almost like even the worst kid
is still a kid.
Of course.
Of course. Yeah. even the worst kid is still a kid of course of course yeah but it's just how ingrained is the
self-hatred of like you don't feel that who you are or who you've been is valid as a human being
it's actually something that literally even a couple of i was gonna say a couple of episodes
ago a couple of sessions ago with my therapist we were talking about like it can become a kind
of philosophical question of like your belief in how
much humans are or are not inherently worthy yeah but the amount of worth that you place on like
these different versions of yourself um and what would make what would you have to do really to be
completely unworthy or like yeah think about the lengths you would go exactly to like protect someone that you
love to like think about how like for example there's a man that you love or there's someone
that you love but like let's say like a romantic person because we let the shit slide with them
often all right there's someone that you love romantically in your life think about the shit
someone has to do to make you be like i I don't love them anymore, that I'm going to walk away.
Like, I do feel like the amount that you let slide for someone that you love,
that you think is like a worthy person.
I think just other people.
Yeah, totally.
But I'm almost saying like someone that you feel an extreme feeling for.
It's like, okay, so let's just be like for ourselves.
It's like, so you've really done nothing really wrong no nothing all you've done is what you um once got a bit angry at your friend
and you overstepped the mark a little bit or like you once um you looked a little bit bad in that
photo or you kind of it's just a load of shit you got nine out of ten instead of ten out of ten big
deal you didn't do anything
but i think that's the that's the thing is it's not about okay well how worthy or unworthy were
you it's more so like okay why was it so difficult to build any sense of like self-worth and
acknowledgement of your own um self like why is it so difficult for you to show compassion towards
you towards yourself like why do you have this like objectively impossible standard that you're
putting not just yourself under but like yourself as a 15 year old yourself as a 10 year old like
it isn't um nice but it also something that's been really nice for me is like learning
that it isn't um like a static conclusive definitive thing it's something that i've
changed over time like now i definitely feel much more aligned with what you were saying of like
there's no version of me that i don't look at and feel like such a strong fondness compassion
love for to the point where i feel that way about myself now in the present which is like the most
important and also like mind-blowing like question mark question mark i don't know how i've done it
yeah sort of thing but like to actually feel good about myself and who i've been but i do think for a lot of people that's really really
fucking hard because it's so much more natural or at least in my own experience it was just
so much more natural to hate myself and to feel shame around who i was even as a 10 year old
and that is really hard to like unlearn and move past it's impossible almost like i do feel like
that's i i completely agree with that that i think one of the biggest things that i need to work on
is like just being nicer to myself like always having like a compassionate um approach to myself
like that is a hundred percent one of the main struggles top priority issues to
work on like there needs to be a way that i can um use the like almost like yeah okay so i can feel
the love for myself as a concept of like the past that i've seen i can track the growth of this like
human on this planet and i can look at her there's so much this is a concept
it's not real anymore it doesn't exist like you're you're in love with the memory you can be like oh
my god i love this um girl i can see her growing up and it's like i think i have so much like pride
in her and i can see her value and all of the stuff but and also in the same way i can see um a future of myself that i i love and i think oh
yeah that's so amazing blah blah blah but these things aren't real like you really you can't you
can't talk to that girl anymore like you there's nothing there like you know would she even relate
to someone saying that would she see it for? Who knows because it's not real anymore.
Like what actually is the only thing that matters
is whether you can feel it in each moment
that you continue to grow.
Can you be like, oh, I feel pride and I feel warmth
and I feel like love for and compassion
and all of the stuff for the version of you that you are now
and that to me is the fucking hard bit yeah to actually like be able to go to bed at night or
like look at yourself in the mirror now see who you are now in the light like not kind of through
this balm like censored filtered lens of hindsight and distance yeah it's like to really live with who you are now
in an active sense tomorrow are you gonna wake up and feel positively or negatively about
who you are and being in your own body
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I think a huge part of that is having the narrative or like to be able to look back without shame.
Like I think that would,
if you look back on certain things of yourself with shame,
that will be a huge hindrance
to being able to see yourself in the present day
with any sort of love
because the only reason you are yourself now is because of all the stuff that that version of you did five years ago and two years
ago three weeks ago so i think it kind of is crucial to unlocking that but also i do think
there's a huge leap to be made between being like oh my god i can look at it's why to be honest therapists and all the fucking people of
the world that are trying to like help you are which are not that many people to be honest but
therapists say things like crickets yeah it's like show yourself no one make yourself known
therapists that you maybe have paid or gone through some kind of doctor system to get
that's why they say oh picture a child version of yourself because that inherently is the version
of the version of yourself that you will find most lovable because yeah there is an idea of
innocence that's before you did any of the stuff that you maybe have felt was like oh i hated that
i spoke to that person like that i hated that i treated that person like that i hate that i did that like all of the stuff that you don't like or the things that we consider
like bad traits before all of that really comes in that's the version of ourself that's most
lovable so if you have a version almost like considered innocent and lovable and worthy
if you have an issue loving even that version that to me explains why you would have a huge
disconnect with the version of you now because you couldn't even love the most like core basic
just born onto this planet version of yourself and almost kind of just like the biological
like human um nature kind of element of being able to look at a baby a puppy can you love a puppy if the answer is no
i do think as well it kind of feeds back into what we were saying um like an episode or two ago about
how there are literally like i don't know if i would say objectively unworthy or bad or whatever
i'm no god believe it or not i'm just very just a mere human just a mere human girl but there are people i know
for a fact walking around this earth right now and they are so shit like they are mean and nasty
and evil yeah they are not good and they don't feel that bad from what i can see they're nasty
piece of work they're mean and a liar and pathetic and mean they're actually like so beyond the scope of anything that i can almost guarantee most of us having this conversation
and like listening to this now yeah have ever even entertained the thought of being like this
only sorry go on sorry well i was just gonna say like the idea of when we were saying like
the amount of guilt and shame and like horror we feel about getting nine out of ten on an exam for example or like stepping on
someone's toes at work sort of thing but just even like um oh god i didn't i blushed a bit that was
embarrassing stupid stupid blushing skin like god what is going on yeah yeah i think it's about building some level of perspective
on like that was actually something that really helped me with my therapist was going through and
i know i spoke about this before but like a list of like not just like i am i am nice i am kind
but like a list of like oh i did that evidence yeah evidence looking for some cold hard facts yeah that your mind will find
it harder and harder to argue with yeah because the mind will do crazy things to try and convince
you that you are deserving of like this shame and like you need to be better to survive like you're
not good enough you're not good enough it's just not true yeah like you are safe you are good
enough like you're gonna be fine you're absolutely gonna be fine it's kind of what we were saying in
that episode a few episodes ago i think it's two episodes ago um where we were like there are
literal rapists and murderers i just said no it is that but it's like there are literal right we
were we were talking about that in a few episodes ago where it's like there are literal rapists and
murderers walking around yeah that's what i just said there are bad people
oh that was i know trying to say no yeah i know i was saying we said that a few episodes ago when
we literally said the words rapists and murderers exactly yeah they don't know they're literally
raping and murdering people what are you doing like not doing good enough at work dot dot dot
it does really show it doesn't it it's like come on god okay right the pressure the level of
pressure and it's not to say they should if they don't feel it we shouldn't it's to say it's like
look people the the narratives is everything because these people don't think that they did
anything wrong they literally don't think they did anything wrong like even if they did just
have an awareness of like is the way that you're treating yourself proportionate
or i think disproportionate to like your actions and who you actually are as a person i just think
it says loads about the inner inner monologue because it's like there will be people that
that i know have done sort of arsehole-ish things to me no one's done something crazy but like just
that like objectively when i really look at the situation or like not even me someone i know someone that's actually a bit of a dickish
way to someone for example yeah i know that they have managed to convince themselves that they
they are in the right they're not thinking about it anymore it's not an issue to them but the way
that i know that people that i know and me personally would be up at night stressing and stressing like oh my
god i can't believe i did that i'm gonna need to send an apology but like all of the stuff it's
like god look let yourself off the hook for um breathing the wrong way kind of oh god i did that
i um didn't thank the bus driver loudly enough it's like look let's just take a breath like people
um are not stressing over like
things they actually did wrong which they should be but let's just chill yeah yeah um i have a
little thing oh go on just in terms of like a past version of our collective selves okay us as
sephie and wing yes i listened back recently to like i literally got five minutes in not maybe not even
to our first ever episode late night overthinking colon you up genius i haven't listened to
anything i don't know about you anything from our quote-unquote higher priestess era
since since we were in the era i haven't listened back to a
scrap of that yeah we just we turned the lights off we didn't look back we just kept on running
yeah get the car going yeah pack your things we're leaving yeah so i what i and as i was thinking
as i was listening i was thinking save it you have to listen to this with weighing together like you have to go back and like listen to our first episode together like
it is so it's sweet what shocked me is it's a good episode it is from what i was hearing
don't kill me you know they're all gonna go back and listen to it now and say thank you i know
well i listened to three minutes it's a good episode this is what i mean the self-assuredness
is so strong well it's so quick to give herself a compliment and i come under that radar now which
is amazing yeah i can't speak to the remaining sort of 57 minutes of the episode exactly yeah
three minutes i listen it's a good episode full stop good episode good great book read the first
page yeah but yeah i just think we should
listen back to it together because it's so funny to listen to us kind of doing a podcast these like
really young and like sweet and kind of like hopeful selves starting a thing with such a level
of confidence and we say at the beginning it's like i'm erin and i'm persephone it's like who who and you're listening to high priestess like it's so cute we would have just
done the intro and just gone straight in yeah we like we just like say what it is we just say like
okay let's go we just think like what how does a podcast work just start speaking which is kind of
it and we say in the first episode it's like we're singing our theme tune
music and then we're like we're never gonna change it sort of thing we're like you thought
we're gonna change it and it's like god still going with that same music which was like youtube
youtube free royalty free song i have such a fondness for our high priestess times i also
just just interesting little bit of brighton law for anybody
the hotel haunted hotel which that episode is not up though no it's not but it's where we recorded
our pilot season some of the pilot season episodes i think we did two there right sorry just first
of all the arrogance to do a pilot season it's hilarious we've always found funny little words to call things do you
know also it's just quite funny i don't think a pilot season is a thing like you would do a pilot
and that's to show if you get a season you do a pilot episode i think you get a pilot episode
to get a season yeah i don't think you can do a pilot season we could do anything on a podcast
i think we kind of it's like just the
arrogance to be like this is our pilot season i don't think it's arrogance i think it's hilarious
words innocence it's innocence and it's fun to be like i'm not gonna call it um it's not
like this i'm gonna call it that do you know what i mean it's like it's not a shampoo it's a hair detoxifier
yeah beautiful do you know what i mean yeah we just pretty up a little bit i just write in law
i love it um the hotel that stephanie and i stayed in and record recorded um a very spooky
halloween episode in which the fire alarm kept going off repeatedly god i forgot i did has has burnt down they're gonna
have to demolish it the whole thing is like it was literally up in flames the other day
i know i had a booking so they go but um last month as well but cancelled it which is funny
to think but that's kind of the annoying thing to say that that's kind of a really annoying like
oh my god i was almost in 9-11 i was literally supposed to
be in new york like two weeks before and they cancelled it well i hope people just don't hate
themselves yeah me too yeah that would be nice i really hope you don't and if you do because i to
be honest i think realistically chances are you probably do have a level of hatred in yourself
you're only human you've only been raised in a hellhole like you probably do have some layer of hate or guilt or
shame around yourself i would say what i'm trying to do is just try and bring it in even though it
seems so fucking unnatural and fake and false and i don't believe a word of it but every time that i
feel like a like almost like my habit
is to go to a hateful thought of like you fuck something up before you've even known it you've
been like a fucking idiot in your head is just to be like oh my god you're just doing so amazing
like just kind of almost really overcompensating like if for example i'm doing a lot when i look
in the mirror i'll look in the mirror and my natural thought just out of years of habit will
be like oh god
like put on some makeup like let's do this let's fix it fix it face it sort of thing
yeah i'm trying to be like god stunning beautiful oh my god jesus christ sexy mama
i'm trying to overly do it and actually it's so funny because it's like you don't believe it
but before you know it i'm starting to catch myself actually looking in the mirror and being like oh my god stunning it's like oh my god the
thoughts are um fire is catching like almost yeah no it's true yeah the thoughts are they're
multiplying it's a skill it's a muscle yeah so i think i've literally changed my life like
i need to find the bullet points online the I think the bullet, one of the huge bullet points for you,
you've had a really good therapist.
Like I do think that has coincided
with this whole movement, let's call it.
Movement, yeah.
Let's call it a global movement.
It has been a movement.
But I want to relay some of the learnings.
Yeah.
Because I've never, I'm not gonna lie i spent like
my whole life i spent the whole time on this podcast being like guys like we can like each
other not believing it like we're never gonna like we're never gonna like ourselves like we
can do it no we can't like i just almost thought like is that real like can you can you move past like a really deep level of self-hatred like looking
at yourself at 12 and being like guilt shame like horrific with so much hate but it's like no you
really can that's insane that's no it's it's fucking mental but i think also the taylor swift
thing helps of like you can be literally 33 years old and singing a
song you wrote when you were 15 on your own or to thousands and thousands of people regardless if
you can feel some level of like fondness and compassion for that 15 year old self do you think
she does 100 100 million percent the way that she at least publicly acknowledges and like reflects on who she's been
what she's done the things she said the things she's worn the music she's made the friends she's
had the experiences the way that she reflects on that publicly is with so much um like sincerity
and something i need to find some youtube videos of this i need to get
go down the tailor hole before i see her i'll take you yeah do um but even in the way that
she speaks not even through like her music and her like career but even if she's at like a speaking
event something she says a lot at the moment is like you're gonna be really cringe you're gonna
look back or like you're gonna be embarrassing you're gonna fuck up you're going to be really cringe. You're going to look back or like you're going to be embarrassing. You're going to fuck up.
You're going to be silly.
Just own it.
Like you're going to be cringe.
And I think that's a really,
how else do you,
I mean, to be like in your thirties
and still going through a career
when everyone's seeing you at 16,
you must, I think you have no choice
but to get to a point of understanding
your self-worth,
like and being able to look back and appreciate
who you've been otherwise i just think she wouldn't do it she wouldn't be doing it anymore
also to have kind of documentable eras exactly is an insane thing to have that's like an act
and that everyone else can recognize your eras of your life that under this dress and i know
exactly where she was when she wore it it's insane it's actually
insane like i mean it would it was it's gonna make you really unwell basically so i really hope
she's okay like that is really really stressful of an experience so i really hope she's okay
wouldn't wish it on anyone no i would not wish it on the curse of being a genius
the curse of being a voice of a generation.
Yeah, literally.
Right.
Well, I really hope we see you next time.
Oh, I can't wait.
Also, I saw a thing about her bringing out Taylor Lautner.
I would fucking love that.
I need to take you through the Speak Now lore.
Like, well, all I know is there's a song called Back to December.
Back to December.
Which is about Taylor Lautner.
It is, yeah.
And he loves her or something. He's a sweetie boy. to december which is about taylor lorna it is yeah and he's like he's she like he like loves
her or something like he's like yeah he's a sweetie he's like is one of the nicest songs
about a man or something like that it is yeah um and i really can't wait to hear it i've never
heard it don't listen don't listen to ever to the song without me oh well i want to know the words
when um when she sings it you're not gonna be there without you're gonna know everything okay
i can't wait do you know the playlist the set list i mean i absolutely i do okay i can't wait
so i need to learn them all before i know the outfits okay okay can we go through the set
list set list before so that i can know what's coming i'm gonna take you through the whole thing
and it's gonna be documented is it it's? It's going to be a visceral experience.
Oh my God, I can't wait.
Yeah.
All right, cool.
I can't wait.
Cool.
Hopefully we'll see you next time, guys.
See you in 2024.
If you don't hear from us.
Assume the worst.