Goes Without Saying - jealousy, resentment, & fizzling friendships: is this play about us?

Episode Date: September 19, 2024

podmothers sephy & wing enter the chat: spiralling on feeling misunderstood, fizzling friendships, loneliness, difficult parents and crying about Krum. ✷see more ✷ www.youtube.com/@sephyandwing ✷ www.instagram.com/sephyandwing ✷ www.tiktok.com/@sephyandwingshop ✷ www.sephyandwing.co.uk Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Goes without saying, you're listening to Goes without saying with Sefi and Wing. I'm Sefi. And I'm Wing. And this is, wow, god, how do I describe this episode? We're talking about friendship. We get quite sort of advicey, I think. We're talking about what to do with friends that you're drifting from, friends that are maybe a bit passive aggressive, jealousy comes up. We go in, we talk about parents. So much comes up, I don't even know where to start, but I guess we just start now. Enjoy. Beautiful.

Wow, long time no see. Long time no see. We can't get enough of each other today. I know. We spent the whole day together. Yeah, and now anyone in the mood for more? I personally am. Well, I did try and get out of it, but.

I feel bad for you because you said that you've walked through the door about 10 minutes ago and now you're here. I literally was like, you're like, so when should we record? I was like, just walk through the front door and I was gonna say can we do it tomorrow but. And I said no.

But this is perfect, I'm glad we're doing it now. This feels fun. I also, I feel like we're on a high so we may as well capitalise on that. Exactly, we are, we are. Is that why I'm feeling the high energy? Okay so we went to a really nice event, it was a L'Oreal event and there was like a funny hazard perception moment where in order to do this like pick a mix of product you had

to do this like hazard perception test on sexual harassment. It wasn't hazard perception test, it was about street harassment. It was a hazard perception vibe. Yeah it was almost of like raise your hand when sexual harassment is happening. It's kind of, yeah it was click the screen when you see it. It was kind of, it was like I'm perceiving it. Work, training things where it's like a customer walks in complaining do you A get the manager B tell them to fuck off. When you perceive the hazard click the screen and then you got to like choose loads of like SPF and like lipstick and stuff. Out of a pic and stuff. It was really cool. It was really fun. So I think the whole thing was about fighting harassment which is nice. Yeah really nice and there were big photos of Eva Longoria and we had a conversation about how she's so stunning. She's so stunning and in 2004 I remember thinking there is no one more perfect on the planet. No, but no one talks about her anymore.

No one acknowledges that. We all felt that. In 2004 I know you had that thought unless you were a baby. Yeah, which you probably were. Which you probably were because I know you're 20. There's this woman called Eva Longoria. Eva Longoria And then my silly older sisters started talking about this relic from the past Eva Longoria Yeah, all right. Yeah, no, she's beautiful beauty queen and then speaking of beauty queens We saw characters you guys know Freya and Molly. Yeah, and we went for dumplings, which was so good

We went and had dumplings. It was the same dumpling place that me and Wyn went to like last... Literally just a few days ago. Was it even last week we were back from all immediately. Literally immediately. And the thing that literally we wanted to try so much before we had to rush off to Caspar Lee's house, who wasn't in the attendance as you know, was the Apple. And it wasn't his house. It wasn't, it's very much in an office where he wasn't there. It was very much the office, yeah. So in no way his house. And in no way him. No. But we wanted to try the apple crumble, apple pie dumplings. But we didn't have time but today we got them. They were so good. Delightful. Yeah. They were really good. They really like, went even beyond my expectations. They were covered

in like golden syrup which goes down an absolute storm with me. yeah it was so good. like not agave, not maple syrup, golden syrup. it's really like year eight cooking lesson like food tech vibe. yeah food tech. golden syrup. it's so good. like I know there's some at the back of my cupboard it's like do I go and have a spoon? The first bite I had as well, I really took in a load of cinnamon and for a second I couldn't breathe. It was like a cinnamon challenge. Like it really couldn't go to the back of my throat.

You made a really funny joke as well because there were also Nutella dumplings and they were covered in icing sugar. Yeah, the joke hasn't been delivered yet, I don't know why I'm laughing already. It like blew into the air with the icing sugar and Wing said. I'm in know why I'm laughing already. It like blew into the air, all the icing sugar and Wing said... I'm in Gong Girl.

Great joke! Cover your chin, give you a little smooch. It's almost... I wouldn't have known what that joke was a couple of weeks ago. A couple of weeks ago, but now since we've watched Gong Girl together again, I really... It was fresh in the mind. I took it all in. Well I really just took a bite of it and the puff of sugary smoke filled the air and I was like, oh my god, Amy Dunn What's going on inside your head?

Amazing Amy! The idea of them kissing in an icing sugar storm is actually insane. It is so good. Wow. Alright, so we're back from war today Lovely little Thursday cat chat. Yeah, can't wait to hear what everyone said. Me too So the question asked off the back of Monday's episode, which was all about kind of just your 20s in general and kind of like for us the experience that we had graduating, coming out into the real world and you're comparing yourself with your friends,

you're comparing yourself with a version of yourself that you want and it feels really out of reach, very confusing time. Very. And so the question on the story today is what don't your friends understand about you right now? Yeah. Which I feel like is quite a good way to just tap into the minds of the young folk.

The youth. Of the youth who, or just let me get inside your head a little bit. But Amy Dunn, what's going on in your head, just crack open your skull, whatever they say. When I think about my wife's hair, I picture her skull. Picture her, oh it's so good! What? That's why you're starting the film. It's amazing. Mental. Well that's what I'm doing with you guys is just tapping into the minds and I feel like the thing that you, or the things maybe, plural, that you feel like your friends can't relate to

or don't understand for whatever reason about you are really telling of where you're at right now in your life. And obviously we're in our 20s, so that's kind of, that's our crux personally. Yeah, it's definitely the topic for us at the moment and also people always say that we choose topics that really relate to their lives they're like how did you know and there does seem to be

something like in the ether that these topics seem to come up for people at similar times like I feel like this is so we're talking about this in our lives at the moment and then today Our beautiful dumpling day lunch. We were talking about it again, and we it's just I think a lot of people are Friendship seems to be like a theme for people at the moment And I feel like as well this season is time of reflection like I feel like once you get past summer and the year starts Feeling like it starts rounding off again. You start looking back on all those things you said you were going to do in January, surprise, surprise, you haven't done them, yeah. And just getting in the mind starts ticking and turning, start thinking like, okay, what are some new ways that I can torture myself up in here. So we're

just going to unpack that today. Oh my god, I can't wait. Yeah, same, I'm excited for this. Okay, is there any which way we feel like going here? Well, my phone's on the other way the other side of the room So I could get I get it. I'm quite wired in with like my headphones and stuff I can I can pick I would love it if you hear me sipping as well guys. Sorry I'm my mom just brought me in a lovely tea. Oh, yeah, really nice really nice Yeah, so I'm just... but it's like you

know when a tea is really hitting? oh boy do I. I've been really into tea actually recently. it's really... more than I have been. yeah it must be the change in the season but yeah it's been coffee coffee coffee and now tea is back on the on the menu. it really is actually. it's come back to claim her rightful spot as number one. and it was and it never left. It truly never left. No. But sometimes it's almost like, you know what Tia, I have been- I've been taking you for granted even. Yeah.

And I'm sorry for that. Okay. Something your friends don't understand about you. Bit of a deep one I'm coming in with. Okay. I'm ready. I think we can do it justice. We'll give it a go. being your parents' parent. oh god you are starting us heavy. i know! i know. but we don't we don't have to be specific but i think it's a good one to start. it's relatable. it's relatable and i think it's one of those things where it's deep and it's personal and something we've been saying

at the moment and something we touched on in the last episode when I said about the salt burn comparison of like, you're in a situation where you're with a friend and you're explaining something that is the reality of your life and they are viewing it as like an exciting, crazy, thrilling story.

A drama. They think they're watching Gone Girl. Totally. But no, no, no. But it's like, no no I'm living actually. he actually does picture the back of my skull when he hits my head or whatever. yeah it's crazy and it's not just a story it's like that's actually painful for me and whatever and it's really horrible and like an unpleasant feeling and hurtful when your friends can't relate or like understand. Empathise.

Empathise with what you're giving. And I feel like stuff with parents, just specifically anything like that close or personal or deep, why I've chosen that one basically is because I think this conversation for us, the crux of it is always like when you're sharing your sacred texts with somebody and for whatever reason reason it cannot be granted the safe beautiful warmth of your gentle caress of your hands and it's

just falls to the floor in front of you. Do you know what I mean? Like when you're giving something really honest and for whatever reason that person cannot create the... They can't receive it well. They can't create the environment, yeah, to facilitate that. And being your parents' parent, also, I feel like as much as it's the classic thing that so many people cannot get, and they shouldn't, frankly, it's also really common. And I think it's a really, yeah, I think it's an issue that a lot of people listening will be like, yeah, welcome to my world. Totally.

Also, there's so many ways that that can play out. Like, I feel like without being at all specific to my mum and my dad who, thank you for the lovely tea, mummy, but I'm just gonna speak some. Yeah, it goes without saying, it's like, we both have parents. Oh yeah, and love them so much. Yeah, it goes without saying it's like we both have parents. Oh, yeah and love them so much But you guys were just sephian wing, but like we didn't just appear out of nowhere Yeah, we know and we're not NPCs and we come from we didn't just pull out of a coconut tree We really did it. We have parents. We do they're crazy. I Think oh, yeah. No, I don't know if I would do want to say that. You don't have to.

It's kind of nothing. I think the ways that I have had to teach my parents have definitely been things I've only realised growing up. Like in almost in sort of adult, my adult brain have things become more apparent that's like I think this could be a bit more like basically emotional intelligence I think things that maybe when I was younger it's like all my needs were being met as a child only when you're an adult is it like you gain the perspective and you see things and it's like okay so I would teach you that and I do think they have been receptive in so many ways to that and they and I look we have like adult relationships now like where we

grow from each other but i do think it for me it wasn't necessarily like childhood things it was more like yeah i do think emotional intelligence it kind of boils down to which sorry to them to call them emotionally dumb but they are in loads of ways. well yeah same here i also think it's a generational thing massively and that's why as well i think a lot of people will relate to this concept of feeling like we function so differently to how our parents have functioned that just goes without saying. even the concept of emotional intelligence i could kind of see a bit of an eye roll from that generation.

it's like emotional what? Excuse me? And she's going off about this thing called emotional intelligence on this thing called a podcast. Yorn! I was gonna say it's ice cream but what I mean is it's like snowflake. It's like, it's kind of oh shut up you little snowflake emotional intelligence. It is, yeah. There's so much shhh. Our awareness now is so different. It's therapy-speak. Yeah, yeah. Which's so much, our awareness now is so different. It's therapy speak. Yeah, yeah. Which is annoying. Which so much of that, yeah, it is really annoying.

But so much of that is also really, so much of it is, I think unfortunately what people don't want to admit is really grounded in like very real stuff. 100%. Like therapy speak is so annoying. If that's what you need to get there. But also yeah, like so much of it is like incredibly legitimate and a lot of these parents do you know should be coming back in with their tail between their legs like yeah oops. Yeah maybe they shouldn't have shat all over things like therapy when you actually think about what that is I mean it's one of the most like pretty obvious

because one thing we always talk about with that older generation if you've heard us talking about crying about crumbs I know you have Harry. yeah okay. this is definitely something that the older generation do. oh my god. it's definitely, it seems to me to be genuinely a generational issue. but do you remember what this came from? yes about crumbs. yeah so there was a rental figure and I was feeding back to Sefi saying and then they walked in and there was a crumb and they started on the side of the kitchen and they start screaming about the crumb, crying about the crumb. Everybody, how can we live with this crumb? Crumb, crumb and then we started saying Victor crumb, crumb,

crumb, crumb. Victor I love you, Victor I do. Victor I love you, Victor I do. Crumb, crumb, crumb. You're crying about crumbs victor crumb, crumb, crumb, victor i love you victor i do, victor i do, crumb crumb crumb, you're crying about crumbs, you're not crying about crumbs, you're crying because you're getting a divorce, and that's okay by the way, you're allowed to be stressed, but the lack of awareness of not being able to jump from i'm really stressed out about this crumb, oh maybe it's also because i'm stressed about my divorce. maybe it's not about the crumb. the lack of the jump is really, i think as well, what gets us down in this gang i've seen is too much. it's like, glug glug glug glug, little bit of self awareness, little bit of self awareness, glug glug glug, oops, i spilt too much in, they gave us a little bit too much. and i think our generation maybe becomes too self-critical and too aware of like

I'm crying. I was crying about crumbs. I know I'm just crying about my divorce and like maybe I'm just I know I'm being I'm being silly at the moment and I'm probably overthinking and I think we bring too much Because we grew up with um, we've swung the other way. Yeah Yeah, the crum and left and right and all over the place. young dumb and full of crum. that's crazy. why is it that? it's horrible when you think we're talking about like 50, 60 year old men but they are actually young dumb and full of crum. but it's like maybe it's because like your job's really stressful and you're getting a divorce. it's like, maybe it's because like, your job's really stressful and you're getting a divorce. It's because of notably actual human issues.

You don't need to. I can't see that's better. There's steam coming out of your ears. Yeah. About this crumb. You're Ron after he ate, oh Harry, whoever ate the sweet that makes his ears go woohoo. I mean it, it um, encourages an eye roll from me I have to say. No agreed but it's definitely something that we have identified like that that's actually

been an issue for a long time. Well I think as well. No it is yeah crying about crimes it's a massive issue and I also think a lot of people will be able to relate to growing up in a household where you're living with adults who very clearly have some sort of undiagnosed underlying mental health issue. Or, you know, plural issues that just haven't been given the treatment or attention or like title that they really quite desperately need. Yeah, and deserve. Which, you know, breeds a whole load of issues and also resentment. Breeds really clever, intelligent, loving, compassionate daughters. It really does. It really does.

It breeds really strong and caring and empathetic, observant, diligent daughters. Yeah. Hypervigilant, anxious daughters. Right. Yeah. Scared, can't leave the house daughters. It does. Insecure, self-hating daughters. Daughters! Everybody now. Let's give it up for the daughters out there guys. It's kind of women. Women and women. Women and women. It's coming up to spooky season again guys as you very much know. And god the tar tarot reader I've been thinking I need another I want to go reading for a reading yeah me too but that one was so

not good it was absolutely awful but then the one that we went to after at two feathers was really good it was amazing yeah well let's do that let's do that do those in like October spooky times times. Defo. Yeah. Um, alright. Okay, see how nice and gentle that was. Yeah, women. Women, parents, nutters. Crumbs. Cr-crums.

Crum? Crum? Crum? You're in love, Ron. I think you're in love, Ron. Victor, I love you. What does he say? He rides like on the wind.

What does he say? Because when he comes back and says, it's not the eye of the beaver, it's the eye of the beaver. I think you're in love, Ron. Victor, I love you. What does he say? He rides like on the wind. What does he say? Because when he comes back and says, it's not the Irish. Yeah, and he's like, oh god. Then the tone changes.

Excuse me? Yeah, big change. It looks like the Irish have got their pride on. Guys. What? Simmer down. Okay. Where to go, where to go, where to go. Alright, can I actually...

Oh no, maybe I shouldn't. No, go on, take it there. Well, it takes it to a personal note. I was gonna say, what would you say your friends don't understand about you? But then it's like, oh god. Go on. Maybe let's not do that. Into the microphone. Loud and proud. Yeah, maybe let's not do that. No. Okay, what do you think your friends don't understand about you? I don't know, it's tough. From one friend to another. I don't know. Yeah, what do you think your friends don't understand about you? I don't know. It's tough from one friend to another. I don't know. This is the thing. There's so there's it changes it changes Yeah, and it's a different friend. It is yeah the whole lot of issues. Well, I think that's why We obviously understand each other in a specific way like and that's why sephi and wing works is in the things in the relationship that we have

Built and the things the in the things in the relationship that we have built and the things the kind of things that we share there's an understanding between those and we have other friends for example one of Sefi's friends famously would not like me and she would not get me. She actually wouldn't. She just wouldn't get it. No no and, and I get it. I really get it Yeah, and in fact, I look in the mirror and think I just don't get it. No Yeah, I genuinely because I have another friend who I know will love you that has never met wing like sort of no it's kind of difference between our home friends and

Yeah, like my I have one home friend that will I just know everything they say things about I've just got a tail wing They wing will love this person this person will love way, and I do another one. I just think Genuinely, I don't think I think They would not like you no no and I do get it which is Such a crazy thing to say but no no no there's something about you which I know what it is It's such a crazy thing to say, but I think there's something about you, which I know what it is. We're quite fundamentally different. You are.

I think it's all the things that I love about you and all the things that make you great, I think would maybe be a bit threatening to this person. Oh, well that's nice, thanks. No, but I mean it in such a complimentary way, but this person, I know I won't put you in a room together. I see, but then that kind of gets me going. It's like, go on then. You would, you're a loving person, you would love this person like whatever. Well I do

yeah the things I've heard I have great empathy for this person and I wish them well. But I know that they would think you're a bit much. Yeah no they would they wouldn't. Do you know what it is? It's the side of me that they try to dim the light on. That's how I know it. That's how I know it. But like if you said you've just been at a L'Oreal event maybe a bit higher. Well yeah I mean look I'm eye rolling myself out of a freaking town. Big time you've been eye rolling all day. Yeah but it is the classic thing of you have so many different relationships bring different things out of you. Yeah. And I think and what we were saying in the other episode was like, sometimes you can be in a certain setting or a certain group and it kind of shakes you up a little bit and makes you feel weird and it's really important to then go back and like really root yourself and ground yourself somewhere that you feel really like safe and loved. And like, sometimes you're just gonna be drained by certain thing more than you would have in a different day and that's fine.

Totally. And that's normal. Yeah. It actually is. These things happen. It is normal. Yeah. It's part of life in fact. But I do think the draining friend isn't a great one. Like I do think some people drain specific other people. Like I do think that is... we've definitely spoken about an issue, like issues that we would have where we would come away from a social thing usually with like a specific type of person as well that is not is more of just like an incompatibility I guess where it's like I feel like there's an exhaustion after it. So I think as well fundamentally us too will be in these different situations yeah and then be like oh how was your day with blah blah blah?

And it's like, it was really nice, but by the end, I was really drained because this person is kind of this, this and this. And what I think me and you sometimes have in common is that we are the kinds of people where, God forbid, if we're seeing a friend, I feel like we want to have a nice time. Yeah. That's a priority, really. Yeah. So I'm kind of here like, and I don't necessarily mean like I want to be Doing anything crazy?

Whatever even if we're sobbing our our eyes out That even sounds quite nice. It just needs to be something like I Don't know then it there needs to be something kind of It's really hard to explain. It's really difficult But I think it's just I think everyone can understand the feeling where, for whatever reason, you're not feeling safe. Yeah.

Or you're feeling like, I don't know. Do you know quite a good example of this? Yeah. I would definitely feel this a lot at school. I would never want to go to like parties, or like I would wanna go to parties, but I'd wanna like leave at midnight every night. Like I would never wanna stay up

till like four in the morning and stuff at school like I would or maybe I wouldn't even want to go and sometimes when I would say I didn't want to go or that I was leaving I don't think midnight is early god that's fucking late late night. If I was saying I was leaving early or not going people would like sometimes sort of protest quite a bit and be like um oh why you're so boring come out blah blah blah you need to drink more you need to um stay or you never do that and boring would be like a phrase yes water off a duck's back actually doesn't it yeah yeah um and i would be like oh god that's such an annoying thing that people would like want almost like for like it would be a forceful thing and often I'll just be like no I'm not coming but it would

always be like putting up a bit of a fight about it. When I got to uni I would say oh yeah I don't think I want to come to that and people be like okay cool have a good night like yeah it actually shocked me the idea of like oh wait people are not annoyed at me for not coming or wanting to leave. And not that I do it often. I'm usually up for things. But like, if you don't want to go for some reason, that's okay. And I think me and you are really good with if someone, like it just is so second nature. If someone doesn't want to come to something, you match the vibe, you match the energy. The idea of being like you should come, boring blah blah blah. Could you imagine? Oh my goodness. Could you imagine?

I think yeah, you want to... You want them to feel good. You want it to be mutual. Yeah, you want to be sharing a thing. So it's like I don't want to drag you somewhere you don't want to go because then I'm not gonna be having a good time. Imagine forcing someone out. I would feel bad the whole night knowing that they would kind of um, I'd kidnap them essentially. No, I'd be absolutely mortified frankly. I'd be really embarrassed. It would make me feel worse. Definitely. But I think that is one of the things that we come away from feeling exhausted when I've made it quite clear I'm going to I can see you for three hours and when I can feel someone not letting me leave or you know that's what I think. Trying to trap. When I feel the trap beginning and as Taylor Swift says what's the thing is when you're already

trapped and it's too late to see it. Yeah if you feel like yeah if it feels like a trap you're already in one. That's how yeah. By the time a trap you're already in one that's how yeah by the time you notice you're in a trap it's too late that's when i feel foolish yeah i hope that cheese was delicious what's that you're in a mousetrap that's why oh my god the cheese is always yummy okay i like this one because i feel like as well this ties into again we're actually a broken record at this point but it definitely feels like this I feel like I feel very confronted with at this point in my life the reality that Me and all of my quote-unquote peers and friends and whatever are all doing different things with different points

Have different wants needs fears, whatever blah blah blah And this person said their friends can't understand that they're happy being single And I feel like that pulls us back to the bigger conversations that we've been having about like people choosing to have kids or people choosing to not have kids right now. Huge topic for us at the moment. Yeah, big topic. Kids, relationships, jobs, where you want to live, where you are, your choices. Oh my god, renting is just throwing money away. Dot dot dot. Oh god. That load just throwing money away, dot dot dot.

Oh god. That load of- that's something we've had recently. Okay, so we've had some things coming in, there are things being thrown at you 24-7, and for example this person being like, my friends don't understand that I'm happy being single, it's almost, I think, what I feel like the crux of this episode is, is like, quite suffocating like at some point every now and then you're probably gonna be like this is a bit fucking annoying like I'm not going to try and justify to you I don't want to have to try and like convince you of the way that I feel and the way that I'm choosing to live right now. I feel no need to impose on you my will I don't feel the need to convince on you my will. I don't feel the need to

convince you of my happiness. No because I don't, I barely even want to convince you to come out tonight. I'm just trying to leave. I'm not trying to convince really many people of March. Yes, honestly spare me. I think there needs to be such an understanding of difference in friendships and an acceptance of it. I think it's so sad that the more different you get as you grow up, usually things sort of fall away alongside that and it's easier to be close to people that are more similar to you.

And in a load of ways that makes sense, like if you have kids you probably want to be friends with people that have kids and blah blah blah. I think you need that to some degree totally and if you're a student you need friends that are students and if you are working in an office you need friends that work in the office like totally of course you do it's helpful when you have a dog to have a friend with a dog it's just a helpful thing yeah but I think it is so important to be understanding and like empathetic and what's the other not empathetic but something else pathetic and sympathetic pathetic something else pathetic oh i don't know

there's like maybe it's fucking hell i don't know what is it though give it it's been a long day of dumplings guys yeah it has. I don't know. L'Oreal with us. Empathetic is the fucking crux of it towards other people's lives. Like they're not gonna always look the same as yours but that doesn't mean you can't be friends or doesn't mean you need to sort of impose this. What do they say? That their friend is trying to convince them... Doesn't understand that they're happy that they're single. Well, are you dumb? Are you dumb? Are you that small-minded and dumb? Yeah, it's frustrating.

That's my answer to you, I'm sorry. If you can't understand that someone would be happy single, I have to ask you that question. Are you dumb? Force my hand, I have to question. You have forced me to ask you that. I think the thing as well of like, life is hard. You will be insecure often and that insecurity often

in turn encourages you by no fault of your own to feel threatened by what other people are doing. You will. Yeah, and I think that is the difficult thing between friends when it's like everybody's making different choices. Sometimes it feels like a little bit icky when it feels like is there a... are we perceiving a threat? like are you threatened? am I threatened? am I annoyed? am I... it's a little bit like... it can be difficult. it's just an easy way to validate your own opinions and we've learned this

through our lives an easy way to validate your own decisions and we've learned this through our lives. An easy way to validate your own decisions is to belittle someone else's. It's how so much bonding happens, especially in women's friendships, where an easy way to like solidify your friendship with someone else is to shit on someone collectively. That is... Find a common enemy. So strange but that is... Bonding. find a common enemy. So strange but that is um... bonding. It is so much of bonding is built through that and that must come through like an evolutionary thing um and also just a horrible social like competitiveness but yeah I think you see that so much someone trying to like the only explanation I have for someone saying that is a small-mindedness and there has to be some sort of threat or jealousy they feel towards you to say that to you.

I also think it's the personal insecurity of like sometimes other people won't, they'll kind of go the other way and it's like they're not belittling your choices to make them feel better but they're using your choices to compare to their own, feel more insecure about themselves and then not understand for for example, your choice to be single or like you've gone and got an amazing job and they haven't and that can be difficult for them. And that's so normal. It's so normal but we're not able to talk about these things unfortunately and so much

of it is so unconscious that you only realise a couple of years later looking back, it's like, oh maybe I was like, I went through a weird thing where I was like, really annoyed with that girl for a bit, but now I really like her. I don't know why I just went off my friend. It's like, oh, maybe because I tated my job at the time, or maybe because she was with that guy who I kind of thought I might have a thing with,

or yeah, whatever. Maybe it's not even that deep. Maybe you just had a curiosity of it. If you were saying, are you really happy being single? That kind of points to a curiosity about the single experience and being like, are you happy doing it? Or also maybe the strength or the self-love, all of those sorts. I feel like people often want what they don't have as well. It's like grass always greener vibes of they don't have as well like you know it's like grass always greener vibes of like people for example who's your who's a king that we love like kind of some it's you end up with somebody a king yeah just some like kind of just a

joe keery came to mind I mean yeah and it feels quite real you saying that he feels like a real one for some reason He does feel with Joe Keery and he was so amazing. He was so perfect and I was single I Could be like I'd have some questions for sure. Yeah, I would be like, you know I wish I could be more like why can I not be like you why why is Joe Keery not chosen me? Why has Joe Keery equivalent not chosen me or? Yeah, you were having a great time doing whatever, you could easily be like, why? You know what? The one thing I always

used to say about the pod, especially at the beginning, when we were doing, when we, you know, planted the seed of Sephian Wing, goes without saying, formally. I always used to be like, do you remember me saying this? I would be like, if I saw some two other random girls from uni, I just stumbled upon it on Instagram one day and was like, wait, those two girls from uni have started a podcast all about this and they're doing this and whatever. The sting I would feel in my stomach. I would be fucking fuming.

Yes, because we want it. I would be like, Jesus Christ, Lord Almighty, why did it not happen to me? Why didn't I have a friend? Lord, I have seen what you have done for others. I ask, please deliver it to me. Yeah. And I feel like sometimes it just takes someone else having something for you to see how you kind of

might feel about it. To see what you want, totally. And see, yeah, a potential path for you that you didn't know was an option. Especially when it's someone that you felt like you were peers. It's like, oh well we were just as good at art together, so why has she gone off and got that art grant? Why she gets to be an artist, totally. But I do think these, when we're bringing friendship into it, these things do breed

in the dark. This is why communication is so important. Seeing someone, stumbling across someone on Instagram and being like, oh god those two girls from uni started a co-op. I mean they've never looked more hateable. Yeah, you don't know these people, so it's like, god, I despise them. I want it, I despise them.

You're never more hateable than you are on your own social media. Literally. Isolation in a nutshell. You look perfect, you look amazing. But you're completely alone. Like, you are looking at, you are looking out into the fucking void.

Through blinkers, yeah. Like, if you, When it comes down to friendship and you, yeah your friend is saying to you, are you happy being single? Something there has built, like there is a gap in your understanding and I do think these things, if you spoke about it that gap would close. You don't have to explain your choice and they don't have to explain their choices but I do think a certain part of friendship is getting on board and like with each other's lives whatever that looks like. Making an effort.

Yeah and giving a shit. Like this person has said something weird to you because they've built something up either whether it's a curiosity, a jealousy, a validation of their own decisions, whatever and all like a genuine didn't know that was an option for that, like whatever it is. You don't know what's going on in their lives. You literally have no idea. They clearly have no idea what's going on in your life.

There's a misunderstanding of, well like there's a difference in opinion of like society and your role and what you should be doing as well there. And like the decisions available to a woman there as well. That feels like a lot of a captain bridge. I do think it's doable and also is it someone, we're talking about this today in our dumpling lunch. Which we need to talk about properly, like it needs to be a full episode I think. Totally but like some people, do you care to get them on board with your decisions? Maybe not. Totally but like some people do you care to get them on

board with your decisions? Maybe not. There are some people that okay so if someone says to me am I happy being single that I would just go yeah and I wouldn't care to bridge the gap between our understandings or like ask them are they okay or like whatever's going on. But there's some people like some people I would just be like yeah okay whatever like. Are you happy being single? Are you okay? Well like that's a great like yeah are you okay is my only thing like yeah or are you bringing back to my initial point are you dumb? Yeah like there isn't really much you can say to that or if it's someone I really care about we can actually bridge the gap and have the conversation about like okay so I think

there's some stuff going on here like what's what the fuck yeah what are you really asking me yeah what are you asking like are you okay yeah brings me back to the same question are you dumb are you okay yeah yeah yeah but yeah some things aren't worth the conversation and sometimes I think about making peace with what the relationship is in reality rather than like the idea of someone or the idea of a friendship, the history of a friendship, the potential whatever. Making peace with like who the person is showing you that they are right now and that's all the friendship needs to be today. fine. yeah. doesn't need to be more than it is right now because i think sometimes the the pressure on a

relationship can be stifling. also does this kind of bring us to a point that we have discussed many times which we stole from a name that has not been mentioned in a while lucy diamond. jesus. that Jesus. No that's not her name Lucy Sheridan. Who's Lucy Diamond? Oh. Prepare to Diamond. And she says prepare to Diamond. Prepare to Diamond. Lucy Diamond am I dumb? Lucy Sheridan. Should we do a diamond? Who the fuck's Lucy Diamond? Is that lined up? Other way. Prepare to Diamond. Prepare to Diamond guys. Lucy Sheridan she has a thing where she says, Lucy Diamond Sheridan full name, she says, prepare to diamond, which means prepare with your friends to kind of

ebb and flow, she creates a lovely diamond sort of effect where it goes in and it goes out. Yeah, picture a diamond in your mind, a kite if you will. Yeah, peaks and troughs that you can do as well. Sometimes you'll feel close to your friends, sometimes you'll feel distant from them and that is the nature of what friendship is. Sometimes you'll feel understood, sometimes you'll feel misunderstood, sometimes you'll feel happy to be single, sometimes you won't feel happy to be single.

These things. It will change like the wind. They diamond. And that's okay. Yeah. That's it. Yeah. And not every erb needs to be addressed.

With, with. No. Every friend. I would say. Yeah say don't give it more weights than it's worth. Truly yeah some of it is natural it really is. Yeah yeah of course and you're doing alright I think guys. Yeah I think you are. To conclude. Yeah. I love the episodes where we hear from everyone it's just so nice. Same. Um, alright. Cool. Lovely. Well, lovely Thursday up. Really nice.

And um. I guess if you don't hear from us. Oh, you know when you just don't wanna leave? Yeah, I know. Suddenly it's like, oh well, what's it run up to? Oh, okay. Well yeah, where are you guys going after this? Alright.

Genuinely. If you don't hear from us. Assume the worst. Assume the West.