Goes Without Saying - mental health and feminist boyfriends: your imposter syndrome is showing

Episode Date: November 30, 2020

brace yourselves for some unnecessarily brutal advice because we're ~triggered~ in this Q&A. we asked for your most juicy and deep questions on instagram, and you came through! from how to get a feminist boyfriend, to imposter syndrome, to living with unapologetic authenticity, we're giving you the all the truths you never knew you needed. join the conversation every monday! speak your mind at instagram.com/sephyandwing Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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wherever you listen to podcasts. ACAST helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com Well, well, well. Look what we have here, another episode of Goes Without Saying with the one and only fabulous iconic duo, Sefi and Wing. I am Wing, I'm joined by the most fabulous and duo, Sefi and Wing. I am Wing. I'm joined by the most fabulous and iconic Sefi. And today we spoke about, God, all sorts of things. We uncovered mysteries,

mental health, the fables of feminist boyfriends, imposter syndrome. We've done it all today. And we are ready. Loving it. Stay tuned. Enjoy. Have you done your homework? Oh, shit. You got in there first. Oh, what I was going to say, actually, this might not go in the episode, was, you know my king, Jordan Firstman? Yeah.

He has a running, well, it's not really a running joke. It's just a joke that he made a couple of times that I think is a private joke between me and him. Where he's talking about people. He's like, blah, blah, blah. I'm just doing the work. And he takes a piss out of doing the work. I'm kind of thinking, shit, is this doing the work? Do we call it kind of doing the work? But it's like a about people he's like i'm just like doing the work and he like takes a piss out of doing the work i'm kind of thinking shit is this doing the work do we call it kind of doing the work but it's like a tongue-in-cheek like ironic doing the work that's fine yeah we're

doing the work we're doing the work right but it's like ironic it's like we're doing the work i love that yeah yeah i love i love a good little name name yeah well i thought you did so i thought maybe this should go in yeah that has to go in otherwise we're just like hey welcome to doing the work everyone's like what well fuck well I thought we could kind of subtly I was kind of about to manipulate everyone and make it sound like it was the first time we'd ever heard it okay so we've been doing the work have we we've been doing the work wait no I want to know yours first what have you just done so the doing the work the work that we've been doing in the last episode that we asked for was do you remember it

yeah ask someone how they are properly and mean it or if someone says to you how are you answer it answer back which except for you know i haven't been doing no i yeah i asked you first you go so i have a friend that's kind of having a bit of a not shitty time but just kind of a is it me i have a friend um who needs some help just asking on behalf of a friend her life is upside down right now topsy-turvy no it's not you it's another friend i just have a lot of friends that are in sort of chaos right now um and i said how are you and they came back and they said yeah i'm fine like blah blah blah and i said no how are you how are you like what is going on are you okay anything i can do blah blah and we had a really authentic chat it was really good nice what kind of same here i said someone how are you they said

fine blah blah and i said that's not good enough for my homework i'm doing the work i don't know about you but i'm doing the work i don't know if you got the memo but actually i'm using this on a podcast for homework so could you give me a good answer i can talk, but I'm doing the work. I don't know if you got the memo, but actually I'm using this on a podcast for homework. So could you give me a good answer I can talk about, please? We're doing the work here. We're having spiritual, intellectual transformations over here. And that was what happened. But I'm not going to lie.

I wouldn't say I passed my homework with flying colours because I actually, Sefi knows, I found it more difficult than ever, literally this week, to... Be open. To be open. I'm not secretive, literally this week, to... Be open. To be open. I'm not secretive, but I was saying to Sefi, I get out of the habit of, like, talking to people. So if I'm being really social

or just kind of upkeeping normal levels of sociability, which isn't a word, but whatever, I'm, like, in the habit and in the routine of being like, oh, I did this and blah, blah, blah, blah. And you can kind of update on, like, the mundane aspects of i'm just eating this but like when it's a big thing it's like well how do you approach but it's like if i'm out of whack with that so i haven't been socializing in like enough in a normal way like i've been kind of withdrawing that it's then when you've actually got something to announce it's like oh i can't not announce but you get what i

mean yeah when there's something like serious going on. So let's just all keep practicing and keep doing the work. Hope you all did the work, guys. Hope you've been doing the work together. Okay, first question we got and we got a lot of was something along the lines of, how did you start the podcast? Or why did you start the podcast? Oh, yeah.

Okay, go in. Oh, well, how did we? We'd started it on our phones honestly don't bring me back to that dreadful time so much a traumatic experience doing anything from scraps by yourself don't you think i kind of thought it was quite a beautiful experience quite raw kind of like are we really gonna do this like we had no permission like what the fuck yeah oh we weren't waiting around well i remember we were like so basically we'd started an instagram if you followed us from day one it was very much me and wing were obsessed with Like, what the fuck? Yeah, we weren't waiting around. Well, I remember we were like, so basically we'd started an Instagram.

If you followed us from day one, it was very much me and Wing were obsessed with tarot. If you followed us from day one, I feel for you. Same, because it was a chaotic. Thank you, but I almost resent that you've seen what you've seen. It was definitely a chaotic vibe. We were like, okay, we're going to do sort of crystal-y stuff. And then we're like, no, no, no, no, no. We were still at uni.

At uni in third year. We were like, we do not care about crystals half as much as we care about feminism and all the things we talk about we pivoted we made the crucial pivot and we're like right should we start a podcast and we started on our kitchen table we probably had some lovely beans on toast or something and then i started on our kitchen table everyone thought we were weird we had builders banging banging banging next door yeah we had to do it like in between their little hammering we were using an app in a practical sense we were using an app called opinion which i don't know why i'm telling you this actually because it's not practical because they don't even do it anymore it's banned did you say it's not banned

it's you basically unless you paid for the version like 10 quid version or whatever you cannot use it yeah but you can't do that anymore right no it's gone it's gone forever gone from the app store it's completely gone but that was a perfect thing to be honest i recorded for a while on my voice notes oh and that was bad it was bad but i genuinely think if people are trying to start a podcast don't spend i mean do not go and like rent a studio don't pay for a studio don't pay for a microphone don't pay a penny and do not whatever you do record your audio of a facetime or zoom isolate your audio you record what you're saying and the other person records what they are saying in a separate you know whatever on their phones

it's so easy just do i honestly think do not pay a penny other than the money that you'll spend on a cast or libsyn your hosting thing agreed do not spend a penny other than the money that you'll spend on a cast or libsyn your hosting thing agreed do not spend a penny on anything else or you're wasting your money do not buy fancy microphones and i also think don't wait for permission to do stuff no anything like this is podcast and beyond like anything you're trying to do i've said it a million times no one picks you up out of obscurity and plucks you and places you into your dream life of where you want to be. Yeah. You need to, unfortunately, you need to put in the work.

That's the thing. It's like post your art now. Don't wait to get, oh, I'll get 5K followers and then I'll post my art. No, post your art now. Yeah. Don't, oh, I'll go to the cinema on my own when I, like, when I have a boyfriend. Then I know, like, no, go to the cinema now. When cinemas are open.

When cinemas are open, go now when they're open. open it's the same thing don't wait for someone to say oh my god you'd be good on a podcast no one had ever said we'd be good on a podcast no one's ever gonna say that to you if anything everyone said you'd be quite bad on the combination of you both is not something we need recorded in kind of immortalized on audio form forever. And you know what? At the beginning, we were bad on a podcast. Yeah. Like, you are going to be bad.

You're asking me bad, blah, blah, blah at the beginning. Then it will be good. Or better than it being good, it will be something. It's there. It's something. It exists. So true. That's more important than the quality of it even.

Wholesome vibes. Woo, we're starting out strong. I think a lot of people ask us like how do you how do i start doing this how do i start doing that how do i start doing that you don't need to ask me you just start it yeah also google is your friend like the amount of people that message oh how do we do that literally we were starting from scraps there is no fucking advice we can give you that isn't on the internet the advice i'd give you is don't spend a fucking penny but i mean you've got that for free two minutes in or whatever you've already got that that's in the bank now just start googling so true and i also think before you start anything think about why you're starting it yes yes because we've seen

actually have we not and we discuss this all the time people who start things because they want like glory yeah immortal fame you need to detach from the fucking outcome of whatever you think this project is going to be fame is a fickle friend harry we were told this by gilderoy lockhart at the age of about eight none of us have an excuse fame is a fickle friend harry we know it we know it but we've all forgotten it if you're doing it with somebody else you need to lose that ego immediately actually maybe even if you're doing it on your own even more so you need to lose your ego the amount of people that i see doing stuff that exhausts them and then that gets to the end they get no validation from it because who has got time to be going around validating people and slash life isn't validating and even the thing you were craving didn't actually feed you in any

way and it's like did you enjoy the thing that you just did then the answer is no because they're waiting for the end goal not the reason to do anything so true god we've started off violent yeah violent we woke up today and we chose violence next question so somebody asked what is your take on dating an alcoholic is there hope or is it doomed from the start and naturally we are the authority figures here and we have all the answers to these questions you've come to the right place i you've come to totally the wrong place i mean um um that is a good question what do you think do you think's doomed? I don't know if many things are doomed. Like, it's quite a specific scenario when things are doomed. Like, whatever happens, no matter what the changes, no matter what the communication, something is forever doomed to fail.

Like, you're meeting your doom. It's like, God, we're in a film. The untimely demise. So I don't know if anything can ever be doomed but but would you say it's a good idea i mean it's not my ideal it's not like okay i'm trying to manifest my dream partner i'm gonna have tall guy with dark eyes and dark hair they're also an alcoholic um it's not in my list but but is it in a list to avoid i mean it would be a red flag for me if um if i can identify an issue almost a dependency on anything an addiction an addictive behavior i think is a red flag for

sure if there's a reliance on anything um external and that can be people places things you know minerals objects whatever minerals there's no part 20 there what is it that game that's like object animals minerals whatever that game is or maybe that's just my archaeologist family that played that game but isn't that funny that we like immediately say a dependency on alcohol yeah that would be it that's a red flag but it's like you would never know if someone had like a dependency on their fucking xbox yeah yeah which is just as real and i would say just as problematic and maybe just as detrimental to people's relationships totally so it definitely is amplified by the stigma that is surrounding kind of alcohol and substance abuse

and addiction and all of those things but i think it's less of a problem if they identify it within themselves and come to you and say oh i am an alcoholic this is what i'm doing this is my journey blah blah blah but if you identify within yourself oh this person is dependent on alcohol this person has not identified within themselves that they are an alcoholic if you want to place that word on it i think that is more of a problem because that's kind of similar to this person is an xboxaholic this person is addicted to their xbox but there's no word for that though just fucking loser a bum yeah exactly there's no um it's not precisely doomed for your boyfriend to be playing on fucking call of duty i don't know what games people play anymore i also think it depends on who you are i think for some

people it would be a bad idea to get yourself into a relationship maybe with anybody let alone somebody who has their own journey going on which i guess really we all do but i think some people would be more some people would be able to like flourish more in that situation than others for some people that would be like an absolute red flag because they've been through it before because they have their own issue that that's going to conflict with it's going to trigger things within them yeah exactly yeah whereas i think for some people it's like if you naturally find yourself to be the caretaker which i think is a problematic concept in itself but if you naturally are a giver and are very um kind of maternal and find yourself being very

generous with your energy and etc etc and you're constantly drawn to emotional labor i think that's a problem within yourself but if you've got a kind of got a grip on that then it's your choice really isn't it i don't think it's doomed but if we're adults we have to make adult decisions yeah totally i just think when looking at addiction i mean it's so it's so easy to be like you're addicted to alcohol you're addicted to drugs you're addicted to whatever but if you actually look at addiction i mean one of the first things i do in the morning is look at my phone that's an addiction that is obviously problematic the last thing i do is kind of take a little glance at my phone it's constantly with me that's an addiction but why is there when guys she's addicted to her phone don't don't like it's a real problem no because we're all addicted to our phones it's still so damaging obviously i completely completely

agree i think with all relationships or getting into all relationships there are going to be lots of things that you need to be aware of in that other person and get into a relationship not because you're just happy to be chosen and it's convenient to be with that person because you're just so lonely and you want to be with someone whoever that may be be with someone because you want to be with them because it's gonna you're gonna both better each other and you're gonna have fun together don't volunteer yourself for more commiserations it needs to be ice cream party vibes every day it's so true my mum was saying this the other day of like you should leave your relationship both of you being better people if you leave that and they're a worse person you're a better person failed if you leave that you're

worse they're better failed you both need to leave as better people that's how we'll be leaving our relationship that's for sure but we'll be both leaving drained. We worked ourselves to the bone. Okay, this one I loved. There's actually two by the same person. They first of all said, please talk about the concept of solitude. How can one be comfortable with solitude?

Which I love. Second one, which I really love. And I think this is a particularly triggering, maybe for Sepi at the moment, dealing with annoying people. You might want to cut that out. I don't know. how to deal with people who pity you for being alone slash single is that too much yeah okay let's talk about this this is fun oh i don't know how much i can say sephie and i've always been annoyed by people who people who are so smug which is funny because we

are smug by the way we're like the most fucking biggest arsehole people you've ever met the smuggest there's something about a girl who feels like she's been chosen that's particularly um naive and annoying so frustrating so stupid because it's always accompanied with the patronizing tone of oh you're fucking alone and i got picked oh there's so much i want to say about this because i went on a date last night and i kind of had a similar conversation i'm going to carefully say how i can say this this is the stuff i'm doing for this podcast we're constructing this like the fucking sistine chapel so we don't get caught out literally i mean first of all let's bring this

right back to the discourse of being single being being hashtag taken on all of these things. Like the discourse around it is that you are like one half of a whole. And when you find the person, you will be whole, you will be one. And I do think that is specifically told to women. And when women, naive women and kind of women that haven't hashtag done the work, women aren't thinking, aren't using their goddamn brains and have watched Disney movies and still kind of romanticize marriage in this way um kind of get a boyfriend they very very often throw all of the their knowledge out of the window and kind of think oh my god like i am now so happy and they think it's kind of fixed a lot of their internal problems i am somebody that is very single love being single kind of would be in a relationship

if someone with someone that i found particularly amazing you're not closed-minded you're not completely close to it but no no no not closed-minded at all but i just i i'm not going to settle i'm not willing to settle blah blah blah all the things we talk about in this podcast which to be honest it's insane that that energy is rare it's insane that that seems radical oh no i'm not going to settle what or i think people often think they're not settling yeah how not gonna settle what or i think people often think they're not settling yeah how dare you have a standard i think people think they're not settling though they're like yeah no no oh definitely they think that they have picked the person when in reality that's just kind of the first person that showed them in any interest and they're like oh

my god what like um chance of fate absolutely dear i've definitely experienced this very very recently i went on a date last night in fact and it was really nice but yeah and it was really nice cat calls from the crowd but i wasn't really into it i was kind of thinking not not for me really nice but not for me not interested yeah so i left quite not early i mean i said for an hour and a half i would say that's like a lot more than i think an hour is minimum you can stay without being rude. So I was like, okay, hour and a half. Agreed. Do an extra half an hour, then I'm going to go.

Left, blah, blah, blah. And I told one of my friends, who I haven't actually spoken to in a really long time, oh my God, I'm going on this date, blah, blah, blah. And we were kind of in conversation about this whilst I was on the train going. On your way. Whilst I was on my way.

And I text this person when I left saying, yeah, I left, it didn't really go that well. And they were saying, oh my God, like that's so. worry like don't worry about it like it's just good that you went it's just good that you went and it's there's something about that energy that is particularly abhorrent to me because it's like what do you mean like it's good that I went oh I think I don't like being pitied patronized yeah yeah you don't i think i don't like any energy of pity coming towards me from somebody that i view as less educated than me it's really probably an ego issue but i get very annoyed very quickly when someone says like oh oh especially in regards to

being single when i can take a very quick look at their relationships and think oh god okay well that's going on there and that's going on there and then they kind of come as viewing themselves as an authority figure that's kind of a love guru yeah they kind of think they're a little cherub floating in your life to deliver you sparkly romantic news not the case it's just trying to communicate kind of the levels of their own oppression back to them and say no no this isn't about kind of looking for a specific person to like feed me in any way this is more just like it's like i'm in london i'm young i'm gonna go and meet someone it's fine it's not like a deep searching but i think people think that dating is like a deep searching so they get confused i completely agree because it's accompanied always with the desperation to be chosen

yeah it's desperate so it's like oh it didn't go well oh you must be bummed it's like no I'm feeling. Next time next time it's like what I'm thinking about what I'm gonna have for dinner. Yeah I was trying to explain like I feel incredibly grateful like I feel incredibly good right now I'm just like leaving a really nice conversation it wasn't for me it was just really nice and it's not deep it's just fun. be honest i think it's i have so much pity for people that don't seem to see how modern to be honest the history of romance and especially modern romance functions to oppress them i think there is such a lack of awareness and you can't really in that moment when someone goes oh like good for you for just giving it a good old go baby you can't

really be like wait can i just actually take you back to the 1920s um can i take you back to kind of universal suffrage like can i just take you back to all of this stuff and it's like actually it's not appropriate to give someone a history lesson and kind of talk to someone about the history of marriage as like a buying document blah blah blah because they're just saying basically what they're trying to say is i'm just like doing better than you absolutely yeah no it's true though and it's also this situation is kind of an explosion of their ego is that you can't be offended by somebody who's that deluded or at least that not on the same wavelength as you clutching at straws yeah i am thinking this more and more recently in the sometimes kindness is the hardest thing and i don't know if this is

relatable for anyone else but like that there have been certain examples where i've had to like take myself away from something and just be like right be kind be kind here like show mercy on this poor soul like just be kind like you don't need to kill them yeah almost like this person has said something that they're trying you know the analogy that you always use of trying to dunk your head you're both drowning and they're using their head they're drowning and they're trying to use your head to keep them afloat but now they're actually pushing your head under the water too that's sometimes the elements i'm getting in my life sometimes these days and i just think it's actually an exercise in kindness sometimes just to be like right

you could sort of smash their dreams to smithereens but don't do it don't do it that's an ego game don't do it be kind exercise restraint it's like just let yourself be drowned they need your head for a second remove yourself you've got enough um sort of you've got armbands on anyway it's fine yeah you're in your life jacket and they're about to die i mean this is bad advice just don't let yourself drown because that was the mistake that i made when i was 15 i remember specifically there was one person that birthed that analogy for me because it was like every time i was seeing them they would do whatever they could to put me down to make them feel better it's horrible and i and i was i mean i'm the pro at fucking exercising restraint and being fucking quote unquote kind. And then now I'm a cunt

because I'm like, fuck you lot. Yeah. I'm not your fucking life jacket. I'm not your fucking armband. I'm not your lifeguard ring. I think that's being me. Yeah. It's a balance.

It's knowing when you've got the energy to spend and knowing when you have to, when you can't afford to basically for your own sanity. And then it's our old friend communication. Everyone else's enemy, it seems. It seems. I don't understand these people, but do you ever get and then it's our old friend communication everyone else's enemy but it seems it seems i don't understand these people but do you ever get it when it's like it's not even worth the communication yes that's one of the hardest bits oh you know i do it's like it's

not even worth trying which is so horrible because i'm not going to be met at a certain level it's really horrible though it's horrible if you've invested already so much into that person if you've been giving and giving and giving it is and you expected it back and then that's bad so there's a question that i really liked probably because it's an opportunity to talk about ourselves which i guess is the podcast anyway and i would love to hear your answer to this like i just love to hear about your life yeah so even though you you've got your lip firmly buttoned i keep it such a secret from you any scrap i can get i'm clinging to you're so mysterious they said how are your relationships with yourselves going any major milestones passed recently okay do you want me to answer first

well my answer is yes major milestones but i can't get into them i'm not willing to disclose no but i didn't mean whatever the secret thing is i just more mean so just for context basically the other day so i've been in chaos kind of for a bit sephi and i spoke we speak all the time but we spoke the other day and i was like right i'm gonna i need to fill you in on my life my whole chaos blah blah and we got on the phone and i honestly like it was like a child on stage like stage fright like i was about to wet myself in front of the school hall like i could not bring myself to speak so there are major milestones but very much when you're in the midst of it and you're really in the thick of it and the height of it

and it's like you're still getting a grip on it yourself kind of you're still in the fog you can't see what's going on you're still in the epiphany and it's like i need a bit of hindsight before i can begin to fill you in we had quite a funny sentence on that phone call i was walking along the river and this woman laughed at me when i said it out loud i said it was like your epiphany wasn't it you had an epiphany recently what was that and you said and i said oh i can't remember my epiphany i've forgotten my own epiphany and this woman that was next to me literally went there's never been a more seffy sentence like what and i've forgotten my own epiphany forgotten your own epiphany forgotten my own epiphany like that is so stupid only problem is i can't remember i've forgotten. You should get a rememberal. You really should.

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so what are your milestones recently you don't want to tell yours either well i don't have any milestones like okay well i've moved everyone was annoyed at me we got messages that because i said i haven't done the homework and everyone was saying you literally moved house yeah that is a milestone yeah sure yeah i'll take it fine i did have a revelation i was thinking so much of kind of communication experience kind of just living is a performance and we've discussed this time and time again if you live and sit within yourself in every moment kind of like if something triggers you and think wait what does my authentic self like what does my childhood most inner self think about this how do you feel and if you react like that and go that actually

really upset me blah blah blah bloody bloody blah like actually if you live authentically nothing can touch you i completely agree like if you drop the act drop the ego that was my big kind of revelation recently i agree because it's also about acceptance i was saying this to my friend the other day it's like if you can accept that you're a human being that's going to make mistakes you're going to do things that you're then later going to disagree with yeah you're gonna you're gonna lash out at things say things and make things that aren't going to be good yeah you're going to be offended and not understand why you're not going to say what you mean it's powerful yeah and as long as you know that you acted in a way that you i understand why i did that at the time given the circumstance i was dealt with you need to do a bit of navel gazing

if you will it is navel gazing it's kind of i think it's a it's a the kind of spin-off show of my previous revelation or you've got to be your own best friend kind of you have to be your own main person your main life source because you literally are kind of if you are authentic within that you kind of really really you're not like this ego thing of like you've got attachments to specific job roles specific like presentations of yourself if you really strip back to the most naked soul like form of yourself you can't be touched as long as Dumbledore's around you can't be touched you can't be touched so are you living authentically recently I'm not I'm living so unauthentically inauthentically yeah go through waves but at the

moment I think it's almost like when disaster strikes yeah the real me kind of disappears and you and you let kind of um performance takes over performance takes over because it's like right safety well because then it's like your raw self can't be can't be touched as long as the performance is around you can't be touched yeah yeah bring Dumbledore out yeah Dumbledore steps over and small kind of first year Harry Potter Iter i was gonna say harry styles i wish first year harry potter is nowhere to be seen i think that's so true though when there's stuff going on of course the the most like innocent harmless bit of yourself will step back and kind of the performance bit of you will come in kind of um i'm not taking the piss here but i know what you're gonna say

kind of our alters yeah did we watch that thing about did and every you know all the controversy anyway if you know you know so are you living authentically then um i think yes and no because i think we we are in life but it's in waves and i think at the moment i'm in a wave where i'm not are you in a wave where you are particularly because that revelation is quite like yeah i'll be trying yeah i think i'm living pretty authentically right now but again that can change by the hour like only a tiny thing has to change literally a gust of wind and performance steps back in again yeah but i'm really trying to like strip it back and be like what do i want to do do i want to go for a walk at six and six in the morning fucking as if do i want to go for a walk in the morning? Or is that just kind of like,

last night I decided it would be really good to go for a walk. Like, do you want that? Like, what do you want right now? Think of, take all of your ideas and think, where did I hear that? Where did I hear that that would be good? Every idea you've had, where did you hear that?

Every thought you've had, where did you hear that? Was it yours? Where did you hear that? Who told you that? Someone gave that to you. And it may not be a person, it may have been a series of films a song you heard when you were nine you might not be able to track it to the specific thing but somewhere along the road you will have formed like a pin like a hook around a specific thought and that will be

informing your decisions in some way i hate to bring up miley cyrus again but at the same time i don't oh i love to she had an amazing i haven't finished it but i'm sure the last five minutes are amazing so i'm happy to recommend amazing interview with zane low who i find so intimidating who is that why don't i know the name zane low you would know the name you'll know him when you to be honest you'll know him when you see him more so you'll know him when you see him. More so, you'll know him when you hear him. New Zealand guy, music guy, Zane Lowe. I do not recognise that guy at all. Who the fuck was I thinking of? Listen to a bit of his voice if you can.

Justin Bieber. Unfortunately, we won't be able to include his voice in the pod. You'll have to do your own research. Oh, that's Justin Bieber's voice. I was thinking I do not like the sound. He's a mumblebag. Beliebers everywhere are offended. God, Justin Bieber can't speak. Oh, I know this guy. Yeah, I know him. Do you recognise? Yeah. But anyway, I find him petrifying, but he has a real presence. I think

he thinks that he's kind of Aristotle. Like he thinks he's kind of Immanuel Kant. Anyway, this amazing interview, kind of everything that comes out of manny tarras's mouth i'm so here for but she said specifically in this interview lots of things that i was a big fan of but this one thing that i'm gonna say she said basically every night she gets into bed and it's as if she's saying goodbye to herself that day because tomorrow she'll be completely different love love and she was like so and i think he said to her kind of are you different so what you're going to be different tomorrow and she was like i'm different today because i kind of had a conversation with stevie nicks on the phone last night i'm changed forever well then you yeah then you're changed forever it's like yeah every podcast episode i'm changed every tv show i consume i'm

changed every day i have i'm learning and i'm changing and i'm forming new opinions and there's new beliefs and i'm a new me and there's new beliefs and i'm a new me and it's quite a liberating moment and quite the epiphany i think to accept that like you're gonna look back and cringe whatever but if you can let go of that expectation that every form of you should be perfect you don't have to identify with every stage of you and that is so powerful because it's just who you was at the time and it cuts the ego i think i'm on an ego trip like as in like i'm really angry at ego in the world at the moment that's kind of been the theme a theme well i feel like i've been battling against other people's

egos quite a lot recently working with me just say it say it with your chest erin's ego is out of control out of this world but yeah it cuts the ego because it's like if you change every day you can't get attached to a certain version of yourself a certain presentation of yourself or how you want other people to view you a vision it's all changed every day you're oh it's just renewing i love it it's good isn't it so good she's wise she's a wise woman she's really wise it seems it does seem that way it seems so yeah and she also said just another bit of advice all i do on this on this podcast is give advice that isn't mine it's from miley cyrus so a massive mainstream pot of advice

i take it and i funnel it down to my small platform if you didn't catch it there i'll tell you i really liked that she said um that the scariest thing that she ever did was glastonbury performing at glastonbury and because when she's about to do something or that there's something whatever blah blah blah she'll see it happening and i definitely do that and i think most people do you know but before you're going to do something so say like even before i went to uni i would imagine uni yeah just naturally you just do yeah yeah you imagine before your date you imagine your date your plan you're planning out your script essentially the script is happening and you're seeing it live before your eyes yeah and she said before glastonbury

she couldn't see it oh wow she's like i just can't see it like can't picture i can't see it and she was so terrified and so whenever she's in a kind of scary moment or there's something that she wants to do she pictures her glastonbury and she did that scary thing and now she's done it she can take her back to that place where she was terrified and she did it and it worked and like use that place and she also said which you know that i was connected to that you know this it doesn't have to be glastonbury obviously because only a minute amount of people can relate to having performed at Glastonbury. But your Glastonbury might be,

and she used the example of her grandma dying, was something that she had had so much fear attached to for so long. And then she passed away and here she is and she made it through and blah, blah, blah, blah. So maybe it's not that you performed at kind of one of the biggest festivals of all time, but a scary moment that you've had

that you got to the other side of, that moment which i really like this is kind of why we talk about keeping a proof list for yourself and are quite strict with ourselves about keeping notes in our phones about kind of things that we've done and blah blah blah because it is important to acknowledge when you've passed a scary milestone it is so important another question someone asked about imposter syndrome what has imposter syndrome made you believe about yourself and that's why i think the proof list is really important because it keeps you remembering there's no imposters here that you're not the worst person in the world yeah i used to be terrified of imposters terrified i was terrified

that my mum was an imposter oh i used to i remember staying at my grandparents house and phoning my mum on the phone and being like i had a nightmare that you were an imposter like i'm so scared that's bizarre that's quite tethered really tethered from the smash hit movie us by jordan peele i remember saying to my mum walking down i'm not gonna say the road actually but walking down the street and saying to my mum like if you're not my mum like if you're not blah blah like you can tell me like if this is all fake you can tell me i must have been like seven years old she's got a theory you're like i know but i was really like i know just so you know i know you can tell me because i already know yeah i'm onto you by the way and oh you know i was trying

to catch her blah that is amazing i by the way i already know well that's why i said to you we need to have a word for like if one of us is held at gunpoint we need to have a word for like a code word when we were last on the phone it's kind of what were the last words that i was stumbled or spoke to us in his office and also the code that we came up with is bad really bad if someone's holding me at gunpoint and i say these words to you you'll laugh it's an absurd little safe word we've got really bad imposter syndrome how do you cope with that um badly no i let me think it's really tricky it's actually a tricky question like when, when did you feel? If imposter syndrome is you feeling inauthentic in a performance of an authoritarian role, say,

it's like, when did I feel that I was an authority? When was I trying to present as an authority and didn't feel like one? So it's actually quite a loaded, like, difficult question to unpack. I think in a practical sense, and what I think is helpful for me at the moment, and what I would myself would do well to remember remember is what gets me out of imposter syndrome is surrounding myself

with people who don't make me feel like an imposter yeah and that's not that the people above me i mean i hate to put people in ranks but also no i don't um it's not the people above me make me feel like an imposter it's the people that they think that i'm their peer yeah but i think you're not my peer honey do you know what i mean yeah and i think it's those people that kind of that make me feel like i for whatever reason would be doing the wrong thing to be doing something different to what they maybe want so i think by surrounding myself with people who make me feel more secure is just always a good idea but especially with imposter syndrome because it's if i i think i it's the pips thing again we said about lucy sheridan who we both love world's first comparison coach we're big big fans um

she spoke about pips proof is possible and it's like that for her that's a person and what she recommends for her that's a person or people or whatever that you can see that what they've done is the proof that it's possible for you to do the same thing so if i can surround myself with people that are the proof that oh i can do that or like oh no that's the thing or like that's what that looks like blah blah i think i feel quite validated by the security of seeing people do things and it and it working out for them and and them having cool stuff and people that kind of feed you and you feed them and there's like a mutual exchange of energy rather than leaving every interaction drained feeling like you were fake feeling all of it

it's just awful definitely and then you feel like a fake bitch when do you do you ever feel like an imposter i was really trying to think of this and i think a time where i really had to lean into performance was so when i was at uni i studied english and film me and erin went to uni together but we weren't really friends until the third year until the last minute until the very last minute and we thought oh we actually live together i think we'd get on oh we should be friends and i had really really bad social anxiety for the first well the entire time but it was so so so bad in the first and second year and then she met me and i cured her oh my god it was like magic a lot of therapy cured it because we were doing the work no nothing to do with me but yeah i think i so i was really aware

of like you are gonna have to perform you are gonna have to put on this act because i mean if you have social anxiety a lot of the fear is somebody realizing that you have social anxiety that's one of the things that's like fuck okay so i not only am terrified in this situation but if anyone sees kind of like the legibility of the body if somebody sees my like face go red if somebody sees me kind of like squirm a little bit that's the worst bit they read my insides like that's the worst thing that could happen so i definitely had a lot of fear around that um so i think in like a presentation for example i would be very much feeling like an imposter like standing up at the front of the class which i am a performer at heart like i am the ego is out of control the ego is out of control like i fully fully fully love an

audience blah blah blah relish the limelight but i've always said since i was like a kid my worst group is a group from between the between the numbers of like 11 and 19 really weird thing to say as a kid kind of a classroom which is unfortunately the exact size of a classroom or a seminar which obviously at uni you are doing a lot like i don't mind if it's a group of like five i don't mind if it's a group of a hundred the problem is is that middle thing where you kind of have one chance to speak and that's your shot and i am not throwing away my chat i get a scholarship to king's college um But yes, I had really bad social anxiety. So I definitely felt like an imposter then.

But I don't really know what I did to deal with that kind of... Well, you don't go to seminars anymore. I don't have to go. If you had a seminar tomorrow to go to... I'd be shitting my pants. I think the climax of that was graduation for me. I mean, you were at my graduation actually as well. Yeah.

It was stressful for a few reasons. I'd actually just been broken up with like two days before and he was in the graduation and he was he was also graduating that was quite bad um kind of the hottest day of the year quite Lizzie McGuire for a lot of reasons it was stressful yeah and I think that was kind of the climax of okay when if you can walk across the stage you can fucking do anything I think I have got to a point I've done many things that are quite similar like all my poetry stuff that i've been doing i kind of seek out those environments that will make me uncomfortable you're glastonbury yeah i really seek those out it's the only way and i would be terrified but

i know i'd do it because i've done it many many many many a time that's the thing shout out to my social anxiety crew love that you're finding out new things about us, guys. Okay, we've got quite a few questions asking about wing. What is wing? Is it an anagram? What is that? We should have made this clearer. We found out.

It's hard to understand where, how the fuck you get from Erin to wing. How did you get from Erin to wing? Oh, and I'll take you right through the journey. So wing is called wing because when we first met Erin, so we'd actually known Erin. So how me and I'll take you right through the journey. So Wing is called Wing because when we first met Erin so we'd actually known Erin so how me and Erin lived together we were kind of in two so it was Erin and her friend and me and my two friends we kind of merged groups we're like okay that's a great house and we when we first met Erin we had a bit of a joke the joke is so we had a friend that was basically saying we said what would it would be quite funny we thought it was

hilarious if by the end of the year she thought that erin's name was erring with an ing eric is erring here is erring here and we kind of never noticed it and then for somehow that kind of merged to erwing it went from erring to erwing to wing to wing wing wingling wing so she's wing i don't really it's one of those things where it's like it just traveled a million miles a million centuries so that is the story of wing and seffy is from persephone seffy is from my full birth name persephone this is her alter ego that she brought with her to uni and i love it but seffy's still undecided my name is quite confusing because my birth name is persephone but my entire family

call me poppy and my hope like my young young friends call me poppy and then when i went to uni i thought i'm gonna go back to my birth name i'm gonna go back to persephone but with a twist i'd read noughts and crosses i thought let's put sephie on this let's put a little spin on this did a real ladybird moment it's given to me by me sephie yeah and kind of reshifted my name um so i have a million fucking alter egos right now and it's so confusing my official birth certificate name persephone but all my family call me poppy all my like some of my best best best friends call me sephie and it's quite a war between us of who calls you who when my um kind of home friends and my uni friends meet it's like battle of the names but i quite love love love any kind of fight over me right next question i really liked this um i'm feeling like

a true man hater at the moment but it's got me thinking does the perfect feminist man exist or will there always be something we have to compromise on someone else said something really similar like almost word for word so this is obviously on our minds at the moment what do you think it's really tricky because wait did they say does the perfect man exist or we need to compromise perfect feminist man well let's scrap the word perfect right now because no the perfect man of any kind does not exist no but kind of feminist man exist let's fucking hope pray god to the universe that a feminist man exist? Let's fucking hope, pray God to the universe that a feminist man can exist. Or we are fucked

because women cannot get their own power themselves. It needs to be handed to by the people that have the power now. Definitely. So if feminist men don't exist, we're absolutely fucking screwed. Which to be honest, let's bring it back to the beginning.

You're never doomed. Or are we? Or are we? The other question that was really similar was something along the lines of like will i ever find a feminist boyfriend like is that something that can exist let me actually find it word for word sorry it's actually a really good question so they said is there a point where you can be asking too much quote unquote of your partner i.e expecting them to be a complete feminist how is that too much yeah surely that's

the bare minimum do you want equality but what is a complete feminist which is also kind of the problem i guess i think it depends on what you're asking for because are you asking for everyone to be feminist or are you asking for your boyfriend to respect you for example yeah do you know what i mean like are you asking for him to understand that the stuff that he's picked up from porn is wrong and he can't do that to you can't beat the fuck out of you basically and call it sex and be like did you enjoy that i wouldn't say that's asking for too much i think it's about an understanding of your own boundaries because at the end of the day you can't control somebody else like you can help like i learn loads from my boyfriend and i can guarantee he learns a lot from me and that's nice but at the end of

the day we are two separate people and if he was kind of the worst most abhorrent violent racist homophobe in the world we wouldn't be together and i would do my best to educate him in the world as well in the world is quite a statement. He's like leading movement. I think it's about boundaries. I think at a certain point, you're going to get to a place where you'd be a bit like,

why am I wanting a boyfriend, really? When I just want to be kind of respected. It's not a project, I don't think. I don't think it's a personal project to be making a boy that you've plucked out turn him into your perfect feminist. I don't think that's something. to be making a boy that you've plucked out turn him into your perfect feminist i don't think that's something it's not a mission it's i don't think we should be spending all our energy on that i think see what happens in your romantic relationships and their politics will follow i don't know if i believe any of this but i'm just saying it and here you are perceiving

me i agree though because it shouldn't be about finding a guy that has never heard of any of these concepts and it's now your job to educate him and turn him into something like the idea of like oh he's got potential fuck that he can work on his fucking potential himself yeah it's like you have potential if you were spending all of that time that you're spending on him with yourself but i also don't think you should be um kind of looking for quote-unquote perfect people as we say because they don't exist also well you're gonna be bitterly disappointed I think it's just you're going on your own journey and you may find someone that their journey kind of coincides with yours in a beautiful adjacent um marriage but not on a marriage you know but in the idea of finding

like a feminist man I do think you should be absolutely petrified shaking in your boots with any man that is very keen to tell you he's a feminist a practicing around whether this is what a feminist looks like t-shirt there's an amazing video i shared it's the story and it's this guy i don't know who he is yeah and he was like how can i be a misogynist when i'm wearing a little earring like it's really funny it's really funny that guy's really good but he was like i i platform a poetry night of queer black women a little bit of my own stuff but i showed it to everyone i ran down the stairs that you've got to watch this to my mom it's so good but this is the problem i'm like he's great isn't he and then i'm like here we go again praising the bare minimum i was i was ready to fall in love with him someone else said how do

we stop praising the bare minimum and why do we praise the bare minimum exactly all he does is has an awareness of what a male feminist presents us and i'm like whoa he's hot also what he knows is funny for women you imagine the amount of girls that he had in his dms that day yeah but i was ready to fall in love oh we're not ending it there are we we're not ending the podcast on praising a man surely absolutely not oh well homework what's our homework what's our how are we doing the work this week how are we going to do the work i think we could do something about authenticity i would love okay for everyone to think what do i really want to do today like what do i really want you're about to eat something that you've got prepped like oh i've got fucking like something i should eat in

the oven what do you really want yeah break out of the prescription break out of the routine i know you decided last night you were going to meet your friend after work but it's like are you tired now what do you really want right now let's be self-serving or just like meals like for example do you actually like like example do you actually like like sandwiches do you actually like fucking going to prayer and buying a sandwich do those sandwiches taste nice to you they probably don't god i don't i do not miss paying kind of seven pound for a little bit of lettuce and bread um okay well let's have a little self-serving moment then this week that would be great i would love to see everyone just living for themselves their best life and not what you think is your best life strip it back even further than what you're thinking

right now oh i'll go and watch an episode of the crown strip it back even further do you really like the crown it's too easy what fulfills you oh my god i don't what does fulfill you well we're about to find out next week no spoilers i can't wait okay well hope you all enjoyed the app i really enjoyed it did you same i feel really good usually i feel drained mcgee but i feel like i was about to say i feel knackerini'd oh i've drained you this week then no no that's all right each week we have a transfer of energy who knows which way it's gonna go just the only thing that's guaranteed is each week we absolutely suck the life out of everyone who's listening and yet they come back next week i hope we give them energy i mean i'm happy to be

drained for this cause for this cause goes without saying it goes without saying let's leave it there