Goes Without Saying - shame, stigma & #NoRmaLiziNg: live, laugh, lack any unique experiences

Episode Date: July 17, 2022

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Acast helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com Goes Without Saying. You're listening to Goes Without Saying with Sefi and Wing. I'm Wing. And I'm Sefi. And this is the second time I'm doing the intro because i feel like i just wasn't selling it right the last time i'm not quite sure what i'm trying to sell a bit of a hard episode to pin down but it is actually one of my favorites i think we've done so far

wow what in the whole of i don't know i just had so much fun doing it i mean the whole of us is quite a history but um we're talking about hashtag normalizing things and i think there are some dare i say hot takes in here i think there are i said so in the last take basically what's going on there that little silence in the last take i said i think they're lukewarm but then i thought that i thought maybe that was the thing that made you not like the takes. I don't want to say it again. I thought I was supposed to be it.

Yeah, I liked that. Oh, okay. They were lukewarm takes. You're not taking away your joke. Yeah, perfect. Right, enjoy. Okay, I want to... How are you?

How's it going? But also, I actually want to ask, are you watching anything fun recently? Oh, that's fun. Because I asked you earlier what you're watching yeah and i didn't ask you back sorry we went no no i never want to answer um well i'm kind of slowly making my way through pam and tommy which i don't like how slow i'm going um controversial what pam and tommy is it i think we've even spoken about it i know nothing about this all i'm doing is just working out that i actually do find sebastian stan a bit hot that's all yeah you

did text me that the other day and i just completely ignored it but i am actually maybe we should talk about that fair enough no let's talk about that because i don't find him hot in that but i know yeah go on yeah take it i don't find him hot in that but i know yeah go on yeah take it i don't find him hot in that so i have never understood sebastian stan because i knew that you really saw something i see it and i was like i just don't really get it like everyone's talking about this guy not for me and now i'm watching it i see that it is similar to an adam driver sort of vibes to me but it's like you're not fit when i look at you but when i'm seeing you in movement i'm seeing like the charisma i'm seeing it so yeah i don't fancy like him as tommy lee but i fancy what i see his potential through just the mannerisms

yeah i'm seeing it for the first time i'm also just watching love island oh yeah another controversial i'm loving love island i mean it is pure shit well i'm not loving it at the moment because i just feel like i'm watching a lot of girls get fucked over but tonight is the movie night when they're going to show the girls what the boys did and i'm excited for that because i want just the girls to get a bit of power back nice because at the moment it just feels like it's just a girl load of girls getting kind of lied to forgiving a load of men and then like one guy crying and being like i'm gonna leave this show and then everyone being like oh actually maybe it wasn't that bad what was his name jacks jacks so basically human page for those of us that aren't watching recap what happened last

week on love island was you missed ongley honestly but then it was just a whole thing that was when it was actually quite good but then the other night the night that was the nail in the coffin for me that i was i just don't know if i can do this they were like we're gonna bring in becky hill and do like a dancing thing i was like who the fuck is becky hill i didn't know they just did like a bit of dancing they had a party and then they just did like a challenge where it's like let's slide down a thing and knock beer into a hole it's like what sorry where's the where's the drama where's the drums i need some arguments so they're all a bit happy at the moment um so i'm not liking it

but i think tonight they're gonna inject a bit of misery so I'm quite excited nice good I just need to watch these boys do you know what I can't stand to look at Andrew for one more second his smug face who the fuck is Andrew oh my god he's more insidious to me adam collard is in it yeah they act like that's a big celeb as adam collard i'm sorry look who's back and it's like no one knows who this is but yeah i find like oh no go on no i was gonna say i remember not liking him but for the same reasons for the kind of patriarchy reasons but that's the bit that's unbearable to me like the stuff with jack's leaving and like adam being brought in and but the show doesn't exist without patriarchy neither do i

this very podcast this podcast doesn't exist without it so let's just all do a big thank you to the patriarchy guys exactly we owe our lives well i'm glad i hope you enjoy it i hope you enjoy movie night oh sorry you're not done no i'm not done go on go on i could go all day i'll just be brief the thing that i find so like adam collard yep awful jacks was awful i think like oh they got like eight i think it was over 800 like off com reports about jack we're lucky there's no podcasting off com because we'd be in trouble oh big trouble but i do think the one that bugs me the most is for all the love island people out there um sorry if you don't watch no there are tons yeah i just find for example like andrew i find his misogyny so much more like under the surface real world like women forgiving a man that

does not deserve them and like getting away with it and being like oh like oh just watching a girl like apologize to him being like sorry i'm so insecure and i'm crying it's like oh god and he did have a great line where he's like i i licked a tit or whatever i mean i sucked a tit or whatever and it was just so iconic is that her and i laughed for about three days yeah she's like right and he's like why did he say that just for no reason because this other girl coco was like i'm gonna have to tell her that you sucked my tit and he was like oh i'll go and do it and he was like trying to be really mature but then he went over he was like contessa can i pull you for a chat and then was like oh i sucked her tit or whatever

is that all that he just sucked her tit and then walked off he licked her tit or whatever and then she was like what and it was just such a moment where i thought okay these like 20 hours i'm done watching this show are worth it for that like 10 second moment oh nice it was incredible but then now she's forgiven him and i did a weird treasure hunt it was unbearable but it's fine well i'm back in tonight i hope justice is served tonight it has to be do you know any of them like are there any that you've seen and you're like oh i like that or you don't like that honestly no i don't know anything about anything apart from a few little lines i heard someone say um i was what's his name david davide or davide they kind of mix it up sometimes davide davide did he say something like that's my line or something yeah yeah what was that about tasha

shouted you're a liar and he said why is that his line because he said because he said to eck and sue um you're a liar you're an actress oh and that became quite a thing like problematic of me trying to do an italian accent um and did that become quite a thing yeah he just says funny things from him he's just a bit of a one-liner like he said you're faker than a louis vuitton from china like he says crazy things he's the best i love him he's the only one i like i feel like i'd get on with him. You liked him in Ekansu, didn't you? I love Ekin. I love her so much. Nice. Good.

Okay. Like, she's Megan to me. She's Megan Barton Hanson. Megan. Of course. She gives me the same energy and we're big fans of her. We just met her once and we really liked her. But Ekin gives me a Megan vibe.

And Davide, I fucking love. Do you fancy any of them or no? No. No? No. Not Davide a bit? do you fancy any of them or no no no no i don't have a day a bit whatever no no no i don't fancy davide let me all right let me just bore everyone for one minute longer what about adam collard or no god do you know me do you actually know me well you didn't like sebastian san i don't know what your taste is jake and i know exactly i genuinely think adam collard is one of the most repulsive people right i've ever met in my life i personally am done with the love island combo but i have loved it i've loved every every word okay normalizing normalizing is there anything you'd like to normalize um not sure really but i thought about this because i thought i was saying this to seffy

earlier i thought i think in life there are things that we have normalized that aren't normal and i think it's a problem but then i thought about what are the things that aren't normal and i think it's a problem but then i thought about what are the things that aren't normalized and people have some really funny it was such a mix wasn't it yeah it made me laugh like some are so serious and it'll be next to one that was so ridiculous like i love last night i text seffy saying it will be funny there'll be some that are like normalized pulling scary faces at yourself in the mirror and some of them will be like normalized tampons and periods and women struggle and things like that so yeah that was how i sold it in that was the pitch because i think it is a funny balance between like there are serious things that need to be okay yeah um go to that saying but then there's also funny shit

yeah and i also feel like this podcast has shown us that a lot of things are universal i think this podcast has shown me that everything is universal and nothing is crazy nobody is unique nobody is special when everyone's super no one will be whatever but i do think it's yeah every single message there'll be not every single message but it's so often that someone will be like this is really embarrassing but i think we should normalize so many people said i think we should normalize like shaving scars and like body hair like pubes a lot of people oh guys you're gonna love me i am i literally saw that and thought i'm your hero i have said before in the podcast i'm literally like hagrid i'm i'm like i've

probably got something like gen like i've got a condition like guys i'm your hero well a lot of people said body hair yeah everyone and a lot of them were like i think we should normalize this like it's a really shameful thing it's like god you should look at this every other person in here is saying yeah body hair but i do actually rushes stuff like that if we're starting with that one i will say i have so much shame around it. It's probably one of my biggest, longest lasting insecurities. Go on.

Well, I used to cry and cry and cry in primary school over being hairy. And I would sit with my arms up. arms like up i can't what's this like with your palms up so you would be hiding your arm hair yeah so i would hide my arms under the table and i would always have them palms up so like you know the outside of your arm is obviously like your forearm is hairy and then the inside is like their delicate skin yeah i would sit with my like jesus christ i would sit praying do you get what i mean like kind of yeah you're on the ground as if i'm about to ascend like to another plane um and just shit like i would come home crying all the time we do

but it's crazy but it's also that this uh it's a fucked up issue it's a pedophile issue it's a pedophilic culture issue and it's also a race issue yeah i was about to say this is a race thing it is that's what it is like you have dark hair yeah that's what it is it's just a complete shame it's just like i'm also like i know i joked about having a condition but i think i've said this before um on the podcast and this isn't my original thought this is not a sephian wing original hot take which to be honest like two percent of the podcast actually no one wants no one wants that um but i don't know if i said this on the podcast before i think i probably have i saw someone say basically that for example when like a woman

is hairy it's like oh you've probably got oh my god you've got something wrong with you you've got this condition you've got an imbalance you've got a hormone imbalance have you looked into this i've never heard that necessarily insane who are these people but i guess like societal like i don't know you're on the nhs website thinking like you're you've got too many hormones or whatever you've got some sort of imbalance blah blah blah but if a man doesn't have a lot of arm hair or leg hair no one's looking at him saying oh he's got some sort of condition or yeah he's actually got hormone imbalance but right it's not women are hairy women are often hairy that's just life it's just we're

so unaccustomed to seeing anything but like literally the nhs website is telling you that you have a hormone imbalance you need to check your thyroid it's a fucking this is why it's still revolutionary it's still seen as like a revolutionary advert for example to actually show yeah like hair being shaved off on a woman's razor advert that's still seen as like oh that's progressive they showed a bit of armpit hair they shared showed leg hair in that video yeah so are you joking it's a big it is one that i can't i know i said before as well like i just can't i'm not about to like not shave my armpits and shit to prove a point i know the point that i should be proving but you're not getting it from me anytime soon because it's just too deep for me rn but also is

it your point to prove like exactly i don't want to like why do you is it someone yeah as we said it's not my job but also it is exactly yes someone else is doing it but i do i think that's kind of the point is that where things are too deep that's why it's important for people to have an awareness and like to genuinely give a shit about issues even when they don't affect you because it's important that we all recognize or have an openness to something that somebody else is going through because they can't necessarily lift themselves up but you might have the height or the platform to do so yeah i think that is so because it's almost because i can't do it right now and that's also someone that would have kind of quite fine

blonde armpit hair might feel more fine yeah it's more acceptable under patriarchy shit body standards beauty standards all of a millionaire walks into the room with armpit hair is a bit different than like me slugging out of my depression hole in goblin mode with hairy arms and hairy legs because i haven't showered for two weeks like it just makes a different story if the girl with little bit of blonde armpit hair does it makes it a bit easier than the next day for maybe someone with a dark armpit hair will maybe on the next year or darker skin then it's a whole thing exactly it's crazy so there you go so there you go ACAST powers the world's best podcasts

here's a show that we recommend nature I've got a gay rooster named Francois is so gay these rams are gay I'm studying gay animals does that mean I'm gay so why don't more are gay. I'm studying gay animals. Does that mean I'm gay? So why don't more people know this? I'm Owen Ever. I'm Lane Kaplan-Levinson, and this is a field guide to

gay animals. A podcast about queerness in the natural world. The animal kingdom is queer, and we are a part. Find a field guide to gay animals on spotify apple or wherever you get your podcasts a cast helps creators launch grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere a cast.com yeah didn't think we were gonna start with that one no i didn't think we would but i really wanted to talk about it because everyone i didn't think that many people would say it body hair yeah guys i can't tell you how big of a deal it was for me growing up it literally ruled my life god it's such a fucking shame i still think about it now it's such a shame i know it's fucked up because it's so so so you're so right rooted in i still shave

my arms do you actually haven't in a while now yeah do you want to see yeah because i actually haven't shaved them in ages but i don't know if you'll be able to see on the camera but they're really hairy they actually look quite light yeah do you know what i've always kind of wanted to be really hairy a little bit hairier like i always thought it was let's see yours you're not just i am weird i've just got oh there's nothing there i'm just i've got no hair on my body it's quite a baby you know what it's quite an annoying thing to say but i have none but i've always kind of wanted to be the girl that's like tanned with that blonde quite hairy arms you ever seen that where you just think god you look it's me on holiday that's what i've always wanted to be i think they always go white my older cousin hat is like very tanned and i've always

kind of looked up to her as a kid and she had like quite hairy blonde hair it's my favorite thing oh my god that's so funny that you've said that because i've got pictures on my phone from obviously now i've had a tan like in the summer and i've got so many pictures of like my hair that's really like golden like white in the sun and my like it just yeah it is great actually i've always wanted that look like it always gives me kind of surfer babe look but you wouldn't get that look i don't have any hair on my like yeah it's too fine to say it's like it's basically like even my fingers look how hairy my fingers are let's see it's crazy great podcast content look how hairy my fingers are i don't know if you can see because we're looking we're going through a webcam when you see me in person you'll see even my eyebrows my mustache everything i've got a beard for god's sake

and as you should as you fucking should no i can't see anything yeah as i should lovely hands though lovely ring sometimes with me my boyfriend is thank you when my boyfriend and i are talking i'm like you're looking at my mustache he's like i'm just watching your mouth as you speak i'm like i know you just he's like about to kiss you he's like look at your mouth about he's like don't look at my but it is crazy yeah but anyway yeah this is the thing i do think it is something that's like fucking normal like yeah that should be normal that's the perfect use for like the normalized thing it's like yeah actually that should be fucking normalized as basic as it sounds it's like the fact that women feel shame about what having to bleach their mustache having to fucking

shave their armpits fuck that so much shame oh my having to bleach their mustache, having to fucking shave their armpits. Fuck that. So much shame. It's crazy. It's actually outrageous because the thing that you were saying about pedophile, like it's pedophile culture. It 100% is this idea that women should basically age up to age 15. They're allowed to get to that and then they must stop from that point.

Boobs grow. Pubes haven't grown yet. And we stop there. I would honestly say like say like 10 yeah to be honest same 10 what 15 year old yeah he's like you're 15 yeah you have pubes okay let's say yeah yeah come on 10 well me 10 i've got full fucking knockers at that point exactly exactly exactly it's funny isn't it yeah but that was actually something that changed my perspective a little bit was thinking like look no one's saying to men well no one's saying to men or you've got a hormone imbalance because you don't have any like hair blah blah they just get on with it it's so outrageous it's no it don't hormone imbalance it's in my fucking body

you just never seen a woman with hair right and it makes you worry because they say like things like symptoms oh you're tired all the time or like you lose hair in the shower it's like oh god oh my god yeah it's me like and also if you have a hormone imbalance or you have any of these things that causes these things also it's fucking normal yeah it's fine i feel like all of these things become weapons against you like oh you're not feminine enough like your femininity that's what it's about but then the idea of feminine femininity being essentially of a female of like a child yeah like it's like what i just said to you you said i barely got any hair you showed your arm i said wow it's baby smooth yeah what's wrong with me and as if that's fucking that's what

i want like what the fuck where's the dummy put the dummy in my mouth it's such a weird it is but it is yeah it's completely fucked up i remember people saying they shaved their arms and also i hate to bring this back to love island for a second but what i do find quite interesting is a lot of the men on there shave their legs and i thought that was interesting because i've never met a man that shaves anything other than their face really um yeah it's quite a thing i think i just thought a man shaving their legs i it was just it just cut to a man andrew the one i dislike a lot shaving his legs and i was almost like okay so men i think is that quite i think shaving your legs to me is seen as like almost a feminine act to have baby smooth you know what it's giving though what you know in euphoria when nate oh this annoyed me nate likes maddie women without body hair or something.

So the first thing you notice about Maddie is that she's absolutely hairless. It's like, oh, he's a paedophile. Fucked up. He's a white supremacist paedophile. I hate him. That's the vibe that he's giving me. Nate, honestly, Nate, do you know what? To bring this to euphoria.

There aren't many characters that have put me off the actor in that way like most of the time i can see the actor through the character like oh i love the character fucking i don't know why jared leto is coming i love the character he's playing yeah i love jared leto but i hate his character sort of thing he's such a good actor yeah nate is a character that he must be either so well acted or so well cast that it has made me hate jacob el dory i fucking like i i have an issue i see him as nate yeah like i literally find that character so repulsive that i'm like i could never like date jacob el dory no no when he comes knocking on my door hey do you want to date i'm gonna have to say i'm sorry

i'm gonna have to say i'm sorry i'm gonna have to say i'm sorry but you're gonna have to go back to either zendaya because i'm just your type because i'm hairless nate i'm your perfect girl i have not got even a strap um but i he's that was one of those lines where i just thought you are utterly vile. Like, this is so gross. And for many other reasons in that show. Well, I'm glad we've spoken about that. Same. I'm glad we got that in early because clearly that was, I mean, so many people.

I didn't think you were going to bring that up, I guess. I don't know why, but. No, but it just, it shocked me, like, the volume of it. Yeah, no, it really shocked me as well because i thought you lot didn't care about that no but they do care but oh no it's a big thing and do you know what fucking huge thing cuts me shaving my armpits in the shower what yeah yeah just it's just it goes that saying doesn't it it's just given it's florence given as they say i remember coming home and i it's actually quite sad because i remember one time in particular I was crying about it. And I remember talking to my mum about it and she'd obviously then spoken to my dad about it.

Like my dad was like, why are you crying or whatever? And I remember him being really upset that I was crying over fucking having hairy arms or whatever. Well it is upsetting. It's come from him and like, it or whatever because it's upsetting it's come from him and like yeah it's just it's sad isn't it and also it's like the fact that you are made to feel that something that's literally growing out of your body is like disgusting making you lesser than because have you had the i've had the conversation so many times i'm sure you have i know everyone has had this conversation so many times but like they'll be often like i don't know i've had it before where someone has been like i don't know why i just find hairy

armpits just so gross i don't know why i don't know why i just do i just find them so gross i find them so gross it's like on themselves actually i know they're just almost i just don't like the look like fair enough you do what you want but i just don't like it and it's like i think i know why you don't like it and they're like no no i don't it's nothing to do with that i just don't like it oh this shit annoys me i fucking hate when people say this shit like i don't mind gay people i just don't want to see it in my face just a person exactly shut the fuck up because you're actually pissing me off now i just don't like it for myself i know why you don't because you're fucking you're not that special you don't have your own ideas this isn't just something that

you've just developed on your own it's a societal construct that you were born into convenient that all of you are okay with hair growing out of your head but hair on the armpits legs or vagina with hair growing out of your head you're gonna pay hundreds of pounds to buy more of it curling my sweet jesus you're getting straight it's insane but conveniently all of you don't like any hair on a woman from the neck down it's crazy it's convenient isn't it that's ugly on the armpits or on the legs i'm getting serious chin hair these days not ugly on the hair like i keep having to pluck like i've also got long hairs here do you want to see sorry i know again i know it's on the podcast but i'd love to this is actually i've got really long, like, dark ones here.

And I have been thinking I need to pluck them, but I just haven't. And you probably won't. What do you mean? She's kind of, like... You won't... What, by your ear? Yeah, like, wait. I don't know if you're going to see.

That's like baby hair, isn't it? No, no, look, there's, like, long, black, wiry ones. Oh, you can't see. Maybe I'll take a picture. I can't see. But anyway. No picture i can't see anyway no one cares but that is they're big but i just think it's crazy like as is completely it's just live look like it was but it's outrageous do you know what it makes me fumed everything makes me fumed but everything about this makes me think but it's literally like it's outrageous that it's even a

topic of discussion yeah the fact we have an awareness that's the thing awareness of like does hair grow in the right place does it grow in the wrong place like it's almost like wherever it grows is right i do think i've actually gone a bit beyond it now like i do think you know how they say like oh when you're fucking when you get older you won't care blah blah blah there are certain things that i care less about and hairiness or my body hair or facial hair or whatever i'm less on it at the moment like yeah i've got less i probably let myself go i'm gonna flip this fucking laptop up but actually can i ask you something is there

anything that as you've gotten older you care less about that is just like no i've just stayed terrible no i know but same but like is that surely there are little things that there's something that you used to have a have a thing about and now you are just a bit more like i don't care i mean on the topic of hair my eyebrows i used to kind of pluck my eyebrows now i don't give a fake one well that's one i remember when i got to uni my friend was like let me pluck your eyebrows but like they're not no but again it's like that's just well they're kind of yeah they're small but they're like they're perfect that's one that i don't do anymore let me think okay let me think so you got a fringe i don't give a fuck don't say my fringe no i said also you've got a fringe so your eyebrows are under

there so yeah so it's covered i think that's also something right let me actually let me look at my body something that's gotten easier with age not not just body i just mean in life like for example are you more funny are you easier about like like when i was in school even though i almost would have felt like i didn't though i almost would have felt like i didn't care i still would have put my tampon up my sleeve to go to the toilet whereas i think now i'd be a bit more oh no fuck that like whatever yeah exactly things like that i've always felt a bit like um i don't care i think i've just had the fear not the fear the fire of just like same why should i care exactly yeah i will say

to the male teacher i'm on my period totally and i just changed my tampon same but i think that's because i'm a bit aggy yeah exactly it's just like i'm just weird like all just like i just petty it is pettiness actually i want to make him uncomfortable yeah i want to i want to prove a point here yeah i want to watch you squirm for no other reason exactly it's fucking double science and i'm bored just yeah exactly i'm just bored in ict and i just want to make him squirm a little bit i want to make him a little bit go red and then be like that's absolutely outrageous that he went a bit red it is though it's completely outrageous it absolutely is i don't know if i've changed it's fine if not what's the question what's the

question just like anything that you cared more about as a kid or when you're a teenager and you've just kind of slowly gotten over it i think there will be loads of things but i don't i'm voiding your eyebrows i don't think that's real no no i was thinking in just terms of my body i mean because everything else just stayed the same terrible um but i feel like yeah there's so much i'm just so much more don't give a shit willing to like oh my god you know something that i can't stand that i used to do i cannot fucking stand that i used to do this around around boys i used to like fake laugh if a boy not even a boy that i like any fucking man just because you kind of just think they are the ones

with the power in a conversation you're just there in your double science lesson the boy next you makes a joke that is not funny and you go just to like kind of ease the situation and i feel like i really don't do that anymore if if something's if someone says something that i especially i just don't think i want to like appease men yeah in that way anymore like i think i've got better at like i didn't find it funny so i'm not just gonna laugh or like i'm not gonna pretend to be stupid yeah in front of you yeah like that was really one of being like um yeah just pretending to be fucking dumb just because it's almost like oh i'm supposed to be dumb in this context it's like no you know the answer you're not stupid actually in fact you're smarter than him and let's let him know yeah

yeah perfect not in a rude way but let's just like not dumb yourself down yeah for what reason just to make someone feel more comfortable because you're not supposed to be the clever one there or like it's really gonna hurt if they realize that actually you knew more about this thing or just like it's just a cutesy oh it's just a cutesy little thing like you know to be done yeah i just think it's almost like how you think you're supposed to behave it's just you're mimicking other women that you've seen on tv and in life kind of being on a and the thing i will never do as long as i die until the day i die actually not even on the day i die i'm not gonna be on my deathbed doing this i know what you're gonna say i actually don't believe you go on say it i i've never done it

and i never will do it i probably actually have done it when i was like really young but like when people talk to boys and they go like hey could you just get but when would you have ever done that when would you have ever done that i think i used to do it like but i mean now like i i think it i watch it on love island i see these girls yeah i think they're talking to their mates they're like one they're like and then they go hey how are you to the boy they like it's like what what is this fucking baby that's come out of you? I don't know. Yeah, I know. But I think there's a baby in you somewhere, boy.

We're going to get her out. One day she'll come out. Fucking pedo. No, it is really fucked up. It's so weird. It's just, I find it a learned behavior. Of course it is. That is actually really, really damaging.

Of course it is. Yeah, of course that is actually really really damaging of course it is yeah of course it is like i would absolutely die if so i'm there with my hubby my husband and my daughter hears me going to my husband she hears me with my friends all laughing yeah and then to my husband i'm like did you get the oat milk from the shop no my daughter will not hear me speaking a baby it's a moment of weakness but i think your moment might come maybe not now that i've said it now you won't it won't i don't know i might fake laugh to an appeaser situation but i will not be i hope you fake sometimes to keep yourself safe no grudges there but yeah i agree no it's just someone you slowly learn you don't have to make yourself or you shouldn't you slowly get a bit more annoyed at the thought of having to make yourself smaller for other people i think it becomes just a bit more absurd almost like it

becomes a bit absurd to be like and i think all of it like shaving and all of the stuff that we've just been talking about like the way you become more aware of the of not only the reasons why you're like policing your own body and like changing the way you speak change where you laugh walking straight um shaving your fucking legs growing your hair dressing a certain way but then you also get more aware of like the reasons why you're doing it it's like okay so i'm doing this basically you know what it's a set of yeah go on no just like for a set of rules that you were handed down from a generation who you can see how they act and how that plays out for them and it didn't look good for the women so why am i continuing exactly i think i'm there shaving my legs for what exactly it's you're tired and it's almost the deal isn't worth it anymore

and was it ever because you've seen it exactly it's like back in the day to its conclusion you think oh i shaved my legs yeah go on sorry well just the no sorry no no go go it's me but i think that's that's it it's like you you play it so i've watched these people's lives play out and they've been shaving their legs they've been dressing right they've been eating fucking one almond a day and their husband's very happy but i've seen these people time after time they all fucking die in the end who am i saying die but these they're old women and they die in the end the husband dies or the husband cheats on them all of this shit they get their whole life what did they get from it nothing but a life where they pretended to be someone they what they were exactly yeah for a man no no i

can't do it and i will not do it well no i will shave my legs because well exactly but it's like sometimes you're you're the ways that you perform and the ways that you conform sometimes you're just like this isn't worth it anymore or like it's fine if i guess it's fine if i don't you just start to realize that the exchange that's being made maybe isn't as significant or weighty as you once thought it was yeah maybe it just isn't almost the rules like what would happen if for a day you do have hairy legs exactly like do you need to get do you need to get all the hair off or maybe does it actually matter like actually play out the day and it's like oh the day looked the exact same so why did i have to conform to that behavior

it is deep though isn't it it's deep in you so deep because i'm saying all of this but the the moment my armpits start growing out i'll shave them it guys it's so you will never i believe that there is nothing bad about it but i will still shave them yeah i said you'll never see me with body hair no not if i've got anything to do with it but how sad is that but exactly it's like but i hope by the time touch wood if i ever have a daughter i hope yeah i'm setting a different example that's the thing i'll do what i can with you lot like to do that exactly i'll say what i can here to try and make sure you guys know how i feel about things because you're my

daughter but i also hope that you give me the same slack of understanding where i'm coming from and why i might be acting a certain way in my own life why things might be a challenge exactly okay i really like this one okay somebody said that we should hashtag and normalize the realization that nobody is an angel just had this just talked about this with my dad yesterday lol having bad thoughts they said not me having bad thoughts slash doing bad things obviously nothing oh fucking hell i've read it the wrong way but they started out by saying having bad thoughts doing bad things obviously nothing that really hurts somebody but the realization that nobody is an

angel yeah and they spoke with their dad about it yesterday hi dad um this is why i liked our toxic traits episode because it's i love hearing the things that are kind of okay that we do that aren't good like this idea that we should all be completely virtuous and like amazing i love there being a bit of space for just like yeah i sometimes i'm a bitch and that's fine and also that makes you worse that like this this dream of being a good person or like a perfect person is you're only holding yourself back by being so ashamed of the ways that you're not a perfect person yeah being able to look and like understand the ways that you could do better at is going to help you be better it's going to help you actually get closer to this it might give you a bit of personality i think

it's like let's have a bit of character as well like i don't want my friends to be i would never yeah exactly a bit of spice i would never expect it of my friends my family anyone i know and i would never want it from them either perfection what 100 little angels i'm not going to heaven no thanks don't hang out with these angels i mean i do i do want to hang out with angels but i also think it's important to know i do i think there's some i think goodness is good no goodness is good no i don't think there is any such thing i would be completely suspicious i don't believe in it i don't think it exists yeah perfection doesn't exist but i think also i don't know if i said this on the podcast sorry i know i keep saying that was probably really

annoying and you probably don't care you're gonna listen to it anyway or not you can go have a nice day bye um that you're not walking this fine line of going from perfect act to perfect act to perfect act and the minute you make one tiny mistake yeah your whole existence is void and you're a piece of shit and it's all just now you're bad so now exactly now you're completely bad it's you're not one mistake away from being a piece of shit at all times like you're allowed to be a bit bad probably quite often yeah i think as if you if you live with um your moral compass of being like i yeah i'm trying to be good i think anyone that was like i am good i think i would be a bit like oh i think or like i don't think so because i think you should happily say yeah i'm good i'm

good yeah i agree i almost think this idea of like i only do good things but it's almost like where if you don't identify any flaws in yourself and i call them flaws but almost like if you can't identify like yeah that's kind of a shitty thing that i did then or like that is a bit of a habit i have where i do a bit of a dick that's something i've learned to do that's something i've learned like i don't like that behavior exactly i think that is to be honest should be encouraged totally i don't think that's something to be like oh i have some bad traits that's a bad thing it's like no i think that's a good thing but i also think that's some like I don't think we're very good at taking criticism and I don't think we're very good at well I don't think we're very

good at giving criticism either in the sense that constructive criticism I don't think we're good at taking stock and feedback and looking at how to improve because I think failure uh-oh do you want to pause yeah I think it's sorry about that I think it's about how we like deal with failure as a society like I think it's like if something is a failure or something didn't go right it it's just this stupid like perfectionist thing that we've all gone into where like yeah the standard is just ridiculous and i don't know like almost like where we place our worth isn't necessarily true like something's only considered a value to you if it looks like a conventional quote-unquote success to other people oh my god literally i also think it's a problem with um almost like where we place our attention like in the or like where we put the weightings of like information in that we would pay place

so much more weight on like a negative thing about ourselves rather than a positive thing like if we it takes 10 good things and if you get one bad thing that's the bad thing it's like you can do 10 good things that day but if you um i don't know whatever people think makes you a bad person do one thing that you think is shitty you ate the biggest slice of pizza that you should have given to someone else now it's like i'm a selfish greedy person whatever it is yeah um i just think it's almost like yeah but you're ignoring the fact that you also did this, this, this, and this, and this. Exactly, yeah.

And it's also like... It's an attention problem. And also, you probably will be selfish sometimes. I want people to be selfish. I want you to be human. Because you're just human. Exactly, that's just it. Who told you that you were an alien?

Maybe it's not that big of a deal. And it is also a gendered thing of being... Oh, 100%. ...the perfect, like, like good girl but there's more to like like i'm sure you are good i'm sure you are good like stop trying to jump through hoops and bending over backwards to convince people that you are good and also just know that you are good just feel good i think there's for all of the times you're trying to prove to other people i think really when you actually boil it down you're basically just trying to prove to yourself i'm i'm enough yeah i'm worthy i'm

lovable i think that is actually what you're doing yeah so if you can just skip the fucking actions that you middleman yeah the middleman where you're trying to give shit to people trying to prove to other people so that they feed it back to you why don't you fuck that up and just tell yourself now everything you want is designed for others give everything you want is desired now because if you can just tell yourself i know i'm good i know i do shitty things as well i know i'm a human being but i'm a good person i strive to do good things and i trust myself in that in that knowledge i fucking trust it that's good enough then exactly no i agree you're trying you're doing good and i do also think it comes with a huge thing as long as you're not hurting other people like it's not good enough

to be fucking yeah but also you probably will be hurting other people you also will be hurting other people but i think it should be a strive to not to because i also think like for example yeah um i've seen it on love island this whole freaking season every single person that is spending their entire time hurting other people i'm just following myself i've got you've got to do what you've got to do in here i'm just being me i've been true to myself the whole time if that's true to yourself you should have a fucking hard look in the mirror because your truest self is all they are doing is fucking people over constantly but you know why they're fucking people over it's because their insides are screaming you're not worthy you're not worthy

and not only are you not worthy you're not worthy on television publicly you're publicly you're publicly not worthy which is quite bad yeah it's completely quite a decision to be i mean we've seen the consequences exactly love island is a testing place to go yeah well amazing I really like this one so did I or Miss Fuller we could go on for hours but we won't but we won't we'll leave you wanting more okay well thanks for doing this with me thanks for doing this with me so great new tattoo also no no not that one back of the arm no it's my girl i pictured that although it's funny because i know that's why you want the one to balance it out i am really thinking at the moment that i've got a few tattoos actually in mind all of a sudden actually we are going to go on for a

little bit longer sorry oh my god i also have something to tell you as well um no it's not anything but i met someone the other day that has a tattoo of the word girl and i was saying my friend who i do a podcast with she has girly girly nice that was it i thought i thought it was gonna be a big deal i'm not gonna lie no no it's not it's just almost like i was like oh my god um you actually said a few months ago now you were saying that someone had done something tattoo wise and you you weren't the biggest fan of it it was a celeb god you you were like oh yeah you were like i don't love like all of this that they've done and blah blah no i actually liked what they did but i could just i thought i was seeing a

i was reading the subtext of it and i kind of thought they were doing it to impress their boyfriend almost quite to a bit to impress a man right i don't know this person between the lines and yeah and what i read was not anyway yeah um i made it about the patriarchy well i'm almost thinking i want to get quite a few in one go but which is part of what i mean that will be stands that person had done but anyway let's let's just go let's get out of here i'll let you know but yeah no no no new tattoos over here all right cool well if you don't hear from us assume the worst like for real