Good Inside with Dr. Becky - A Plate of Shame

Episode Date: January 17, 2023

Going out to dinner is not what it once was if you are bringing your kids. What used to be an easy book a restaurant and go, is a bit more complicated when it's a party bigger than two. But we all need a break! We all deserve dinner out with or without our kids. This week, Dr. Becky talks to a parent about the public shaming she recently received when she took her kids out for an early sushi dinner. Join Good Inside Membership: https://bit.ly/3cqgG2AFollow Dr. Becky on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drbeckyatgoodinsideSign up for our weekly email, Good Insider: https://www.goodinside.com/newsletterOrder Dr. Becky's book, Good Inside: A Guide to Becoming the Parent You Want to Be, at goodinside.com/book or wherever you order your books.For a full transcript of the episode go to goodinside.com/podcastToday’s episode is brought to you by Lovevery: As parents, we are exhausted and overwhelmed, and thinking about playing with our kids can feel more stressful than fun. This is exactly what The Play Kits by Lovevery were made for. They tap into what your child is hungry to learn and provide play ideas and activities for parents - so you can have those great connected moments with your kids. Designed by child development experts for kids ages 0-4, each play kit comes with stage-based toys for your child AND a play guide for you with ideas about how to use the toys to play with your kids. Go to lovevery.com to learn more. 

As we were paying the bill, a lady came over and got very close to my husband's face and said, I just want you to know that your children have ruined my dinner and you should be ashamed of yourselves. I'm Dr. Becky and this is Good Inside. inside. Hey Sabrina. Hey. So I've been thinking about toys recently. I don't want the toy to do that much of the work. I want the toy to inspire my kid to do the work because actually the toys that get really

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toys, endless possibilities. Let's talk about one of the most adventurous things a parent can do. Kodua restaurant with young children. I've been there. I'm guessing a lot of you have been there and it is an experience full of anxiety, fear, and hyper-attunement to what others around you might be thinking of you, or how they might be judging your parenting. Well, today on the podcast, I'm talking to a mom who braved the public restaurant expedition, and it didn't go so well.

This is something I know everyone will be able to relate to. I hear there's a little situation with you and your kids at a restaurant and I'd love to hear about it. Yeah, so we have a five year old and a four year old daughter had a full day of school, went to ballet class and we decided to pop across the street for some dinner. And the kids were sitting together along the bench around the outside of the restaurant

and my husband and I were sitting across from them and chairs. They were getting at each other as they do when they get tired and had to go to the bathroom so many times. We took them for walks every time to try to keep them entertained. They had markers, they had crayons, I had everything I could think of to keep them calm. They were reaching for these ornaments that were above their heads. And my husband and I were just like, we're doing our best, we're just gonna get this sushi in, and then we're gonna go home.

And as we were paying the bill, a lady came over and got very close to my husband's face and said, I just want you to know that your children have ruined my dinner and you should be ashamed of yourselves. I have to take a deep breath now even saying that the people who are in me just totally clenched up, I felt terrible. My kids felt confused and my husband goes into defense of us. And I just feel it's worth mentioning. She then continues on to the hostess stand to ask why she can't be served more wine,

which made me feel a little better, because it seemed like we were sort of just next in line for receiving. So first of all, I just have flashbacks to so many kind of dinner situations at my kids, especially when they were younger, you know, where I'm like, why am I doing this? Why did I take them at your dinner?

Or what's wrong with my kids? I feel like there's a kid over there who's sitting, you know, so kindly, you know, what's wrong with me? Why am I not a better parent? What are people thinking? I mean, there's so many things going on as you're just hoping that the kitchen is able to give you the food soon and you can be lying out of there.

And that's stressful enough, right? I think we all have had these situations in a restaurant and we fear that moment of like someone coming over and confirming our, you know, kind of least generous interpretation of what was going on. And then that's literally what happened. Your children have ruined my dinner and then the kicker, you should be ashamed of yourself. If we just zero in in that moment, if it was like a movie in it, you know, we press pause. What was going on for you? What's going on inside your body? What's going on inside your brain? Your thoughts? Your worries. Tell me a little

bit more about that. Yeah, I think I keep thinking of that part in the matrix when everything slows down and there's all the zeros and the ones. And like I mentioned, the people, please are in me, just was like crushed. You know, like I immediately start thinking like, well, they kind of ruined our dinner too. Like they didn't ruin it. But it was just, it was a challenging moment for everyone. So I felt ashamed. And this is the nurse in me. like they didn't ruin it, but it was just, it was a challenging moment for everyone. So

I felt ashamed and this is the nurse in me. I also felt like what is going on for this person that like she's speaking to us that way. And also especially in regards to my husband, I just wanted to get us out of there with this little confrontation as, where his MO is more to defend. And he did mention to her that she should have some, I think, dignity is what he said on the way out, because she was still at the host of Stanford, talking about the wine. So the last piece that I was thinking about was like, how is this going to impact my kids?

Because we've been so lucky to be part of this community and been working on repairing and apologizing and we're getting good at it, I think. But I have no idea. I've thought about it a lot, and I've talked to them about it afterwards, but that was something else I was thinking about. What are they gonna feel?

I don't want them to feel ashamed of like reaching for Christmas ornaments in a restaurant, you know? I think there's so many levels. There's this narrative about like kids and their behavior and staying in line. And even though I don't buy into these ideas, Ariana, like there's still this image for me of like the family who can go out to dinner with kids who like sit in their chairs nicely and like, you know, order with the pleas and say thank you and put their napkins on their

laps and unlike my kids eat rice with like a fork, not their hands. You know, that family has like really done something right. And like those kids are gonna be successful in life. And I have done it all wrong. There's also I think another level, which is just what was I taught growing up about how proper I needed to be,

about how much space I had to like kind of be a kid versus, you know, please the people around me by showing off about how compliant I was. And then there's this last level, which you just named that I think a lot about, how do we repair with our kids for moments that we didn't cause ourselves, but they're not going to get a repair for from the person, you know, that they would most directly need it for. So let's start with that first one. What is in general going to dinner been like? When you think about going to dinner with your two young kids, just like what types of things come up for you? I think about an older non-mom version of myself,

non-understanding perhaps, like what my goal is now is to do the best I can and let these little people be out in society and just do the best I can to keep them occupied. I don't expect them to sit there. I don't expect them to say please and thank you every time. I'm occupied. I don't expect them to sit there. I don't expect them to say, please, and thank you every time. And I see all kinds of different things when I go out. And my heart goes out to people who are trying to,

like, get their kids to use the chopsticks and say, please, and say, thank you. And I don't know. I think I fall somewhere in the middle of all that at this point. And I think it's just worth establishing. Our kids' job really is exploration right they explore a lot right that's why they put everything in their mouth when they're you know one and two because that's the way they can really learn about objects that's why they crawl over the place

and walk and kind of find things and drawers that they're not supposed to find but do anyway and that's why they like to move like that's but do anyway. And that's why they like to move. Like that's why they like playgrounds. That's why they like to climb on things. That's why they like to touch things. That's why they hopefully do see things in restaurants. They're like, oh, what's that? They're learning about the world,

which is really, really not so conducive with sitting in one place, not wiggling your body, and just staying there. And so I often do think every time we take our kids to some dinner where they have to sit there, some show where they're supposed to like sit, you know, in the seat and just watch one thing, you know, it really is at odds with what they're developmentally accomplishing in the other parts of their day, which is learning by doing and learning by touching and learning by exploring. So just for everyone listening to this, thinking like, yeah, it's a disaster when I go out

to dinner with my young kids. There's something really deshaming about realizing, okay, well, that's because my kid's job is to move around and explore. And sitting at dinner is the opposite of that. Then another thing is, and I know you probably know this, but I think for me when I've taken my kids out to dinner, I've underestimated how much I need to like, prepare them for like what the situation would demand of them.

Because I'm like, yeah, we're just gonna go up dinner, right? And you know, the times that I have paused, I'm like, yeah, we're just gonna go up dinner, right? And, you know, the times that I have paused, I'm like, ooh, what happens at a restaurant when you want food? Is it like, oh, I want grilled cheese and here's my grilled cheese? And just have Mike say, no, it's not like that. Oh, you have to wait.

It's so annoying. Like whenever I've even done that in the car ride with them, or in this was, oh, this was one of my best moves. Ooh, what if the chicken fingers are in light, the chicken fingers we make in our house. And just like starting that circuit, we've all kind of adapted to restaurants.

And I often do forget to do with my kid. And then they're sitting, they're like, why is my food not here? They're like, oh, I don't like this type of pasta. I thought it was gonna look like the one at home. And sometimes I forget wait, like they just don't have as much world knowledge as I do and nobody likes to be surprised, right, by things that aren't going the way they expect. Sometimes I reflect after like, oh, I probably could do more to like set them up, not for success so that woman doesn't judge you,

but just for success in terms of understanding what's about to happen. And I think we were, if we had taken a few minutes to do that, it really might have had an effect because what our goal was was like, we don't want to cook, we've all had a long day, like that's just eat something. And like you said, like we're adults, we can handle that.

But if I would have taken five minutes to just sit with my husband and be like, all right, let's know whatever and give them a little bit of more information. And I they do really well with that. And that's also why I mentioned like they were sitting on the bench together. Like they should have been separated. Like just a little more thoughtfulness from me beforehand would have had a good effect and would have felt better for them in their little bodies because I don't want them to feel bad. They wiggle, right? They can't sit still, you know?

That's what they're supposed to be doing. Totally. I think there's a really nice kind of two things are true here as a parent. Yeah, I'm going to try to remember those small reminders or anticipations with my kids and inevitably, there's going gonna be plenty of moments. I don't do that. We can't do that all the time. And then, yeah, like things are probably

just gonna be a little messier. And, you know, a little bit more enruly. It doesn't mean I'm a bad parent. Definitely doesn't mean I, you know, have a bad kid. It means hopefully I get them to bed at a decent time and consider the couch and say, oh my gosh, that was like, I was not what I wanted to be.

I said, oh my God, I was not what I wanted to be. I said, oh my God, I came and left you a voice note. That's what I said. Perfect. Well, as they had all worked out. Okay, next thing. I'm just curious as context here, and definitely in context in terms of how you ended up responding

to this stranger's common. What were you like when you went out to dinner? What was expected of you or did you go out to dinner or what would have been like for you if you were wiggling understandably as a four or five year old? How would your parents have handled that? I've been thinking about it and I asked my parents about it

because I can't remember. Everybody just remembers my brother and I sitting there like angels and sometimes we would fall asleep with our heads on the table, but like that's the only thing I know. And a happy little spaghetti, weakness, just.

Exactly. Yeah, and look, I think another context that's important versus when we grow up is our kids have so much stimulation in their life. Right, even just growing up with screens, even growing up with probably a lot of them have busier schedules than we had, right? So they're at this sport. Like you said, they go to school, then they go to ballet, right? Or right, they're used to

then go in a ballet and maybe come home and then maybe they got to watch a show or like they have something stimulating in their life. And generally sitting at dinner is not very stimulating for a kid. I actually think it's one of the reasons to practice doing that as a family, just kind of knowing you're inviting in a little bit of a disaster situation because it's good for kids to learn, although the learning takes longer than we wanted to.

Okay, sometimes I do have to slow down my body. Sometimes I do have periods in my day where it's not about immediate stimulation. It's about just being part of something that's not so fun. At the same time though, those moments are harder for kids these days than they were for us when either the option might have been go out to dinner or just like sit on the carpet and I don't know, like find a piece of wool to twiddle with our thumbs. Like that's probably was the option for a lot of us and we're like, wow, going out to dinner

is like really fun and exciting, right? There wasn't this like screen in our thumbs. That's probably was the option for a lot of us. And we're like, wow, going out to dinner is really fun and exciting, right? There wasn't this screen in our face. So there wasn't these video games to play or there wasn't ballet and so the gap in what we expected as kids, probably in what our kids expect. It doesn't, again, it doesn't make us bad parents,

it doesn't make our kids spoil kids. I think we have to appreciate that difference, you know, in our kids' bodies around expectation, probably again going back to how helpful it is to say to them, this is probably not gonna be your most fun moment of the day. Let's just get ready for them. I need to say that to them more. Yeah, I think that's like really good to own to kids.

And they're like, well, why are we doing it? I say to my kids, I'm like, you know, it's just really important to do things in life that aren't fun all the time. It just kind of helps us develop into like a good solid adult. Like I have no better explanation than that. It's why I tell my kids sometimes, like, yeah, you have to unload the dishwasher.

Well, what do I have to do? It's not fun. I'm like, yeah, that's why because it's not fun. And it's just a task. And we do things sometimes that are not fun. We can make it more fun together, right? And same thing at dinner, like we could play a little game, or we could play a what's missing, or something like that.

But also, let's just name up front, yeah, like you don't have to like going out to dinner. Because I don't know if this happens in your house, but I know for some families I've even worked with, then the narrative is you don't appreciate this, right? Like I'm taking out to dinner, I just got you dessert. I'm taking on vacation. I just bought you this stuffed animal at Disney, right?

I'm doing all these things for you. Well, so many of times the things that we say we're doing for our kids, there's a lot of difficulty to them managing through those things. And then we kind of act out this resentment when probably our kids on some level are like, yeah, I didn't really ask to do this. Hey, good inside listeners.

So sometimes with parenting, a podcast does the trick. And sometimes with parenting, we need a bit more. And I wanted to be sure you knew that we're set up to help you in those trickier times. The good inside membership platform is your parenting and psychopedia, coupled with a community of parents and experts you trust, which means that no matter what you're going through, we've got you covered.

And then we take it a step further, because I know that we're people who don't just want to solve a problem and return to baseline. We want to raise our baselines, right? And this is what we really do together. Reduce triggers, learn to set boundaries, and access that sturdy leader that I know is inside all of us. It's all there when you're looking for that next step. And until then, please do check out goodinside.com slash podcast. Scroll down to the Ask Dr. Becky section at the bottom and let me know what you want to talk about

in future podcast episodes. Okay, so let's zero in on this moment. So this woman comes to you after what you already experienced is not such an enjoyable dinner. And she just, you know, goes to the jugular and you're like, you ruined my dinner. And it's just a line, it's so aggressive. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

It's really aggressive. And you're kind of your anxiety acts up? Like, yeah, I mean, she just like served me a fresh plate of shame. And like, we didn't ask for it. We didn't know it was coming. Like, yeah, but then when it happened, I sort of felt like, oh, this was coming, wasn't it? Like it was just sort of looming over all the drama of the night.

And anxiety that I still feel it, like talking to you, I feel it when I was thinking about talking to you, I feel it when I was thinking about talking to you, I feel it if it just popped into my head, but I think I'm able to sit with it in a way, like just a previous part of me, like wouldn't have been able to show up like this and talk about it like this. Yeah. Well, look, I don't even know if I've said this yet. For some, like, I'm sorry that happened.

That just stinks, like flat out that stinks. Like, then nobody wants that to happen. And also nobody handles that situation that well. Because it's so aggressive. And our body often is learned to freeze in those moments. It sounds like your husband a little more had like fight or flight activate. And you had a little bit more of this freeze, which is a shame response, right? One of the interesting things about any of us who have that freeze response is I think it

gets layered with additional shame after, where we then say the next day like, why don't I even say anything? Like, what's wrong with me? We, we, we, we, we, we, right. I think understanding that's really important that none of us change through shame. Shaming ourselves is actually activating this animal defense free state, even being able to say hi after to the shame. So it doesn't lay Iran is really important. Very few people react in a way that they're really proud of holistically after when they're met with such aggression.

And I probably learned when I heard offensive comments to kind of pause. I must have learned that that was, you know, the best of all possible reactions. And I need to appreciate that in my history before my body is able to move forward in a different way. That's so helpful. I think I knew that on some level, but you just sent, like, spelling it out like that. Like, it was, that's a coping skill

and like a survival skill, right? Like, just freeze. Like, this is aggressive. Just breathe and we don't have to fix it or do anything. Like, just stay safe. You know, love that. So helpful. You said something really powerful.

Like, this woman served you this plate of shame. And I don't know about you, but I have an image of like a waiter or a waiter is like bringing me this plate. And like, yeah, what do we say to ourselves when people say things that in some way, we have this vulnerability to take in, but it's like we're fighting our history. We're like, no, I know I don't have to be ashamed of myself.

I know kids develop and my kids are just young, but also there's this voice of like, she's right, she's right, like you haven't done it, right? And we're like warring with ourselves. I learned that conversation in my head. Yeah, so maybe we'll come up as a main together. We'll go step one, step two. And there's no right answer.

So we'll just co-create it. So for me, step one is putting my feet on the ground and like my hand on my heart and just taking in a breath that has a longer out breath than in breath, which is like such a powerful trick to know about our body. Like you fool your body into activating the parasympathetic nervous system. So it's a way of your body saying like,

well wait, this is an emergency, right? Because like, body saying like, well, wait, this is an emergency, right? Because like, so saying like every time I do it, even now, it's like, wow, I feel calmer. So that's step one. What might step to be after you kind of have a little bit of ground in this, what might you say to yourself to really give a little bit more distance between this person's comment and your truth. I just thought of bringing it back to the platter of shame. I just know that like this is to make it an object,

like a ball someone's trying to throw to you and I do not have to catch this ball. Like I see you, I hear you. I'm doing my deep breathing and you can take your platter somewhere else and we'll send it into the universe. Nobody, something like that. Yeah. And for everyone listening, what you just did, I don't even know if you noticed you did it, but I saw it on video. And I think about this all the time

my kids, when they say stuff I don't really want to absorb, is like you literally moved out of the way. I do this all the time, especially when I'm trying to reprocess something. I literally imagine the shame platter coming my way, or maybe it is a ball being thrown at me. And I'm not going to spend my energy swatting it away, because that's also energy. But I don't have to stay there and have it enter me. And just this act of, and for everyone to stand literally, moving my body as if I'm like moving away from a ball that's thrown at me. And I just like, I always look at it. Like I'm just

watching it pass me. There it is. Absolutely. Okay, so that's step two. Step one is take a deep breath. Step two, like, really imagine this thing, whoever's serving it to you. Notice that it's coming your way and really move out of the way.

And then I think some simple words, like it sounds so obvious, but we need to hear it. What other people say about me isn't necessarily true, or that person thinks I should be ashamed of myself. I know I'm a good parent whose kids were a little bit routier dinner, you know? Or like you said, sometimes it is helpful to gain distance to say, wow, I was just like a pawn

in that person's chessboard. I often think like, I must have been an actor and that person's play, that person must have had parents who were so harsh to them. And they were just reliving something from their past. This had nothing to do with me. And then I wanna talk Ariana about what you mentioned before, which is how do we repair with our kids

for moments that happen that they pick up on and that don't feel good and they're not going to get that repair for. So we have to give ourselves, I think, just again, that compassion and understanding of our body. I might not do that right away. My body needs time to unfreeze. I need to get to that place again. I'm like, wait, I'm safe. I'm breathing. This is not a me thing. I'm watching this kind of shame pass by. So tell me what you have said to your kids And again, there's no right way or if you're like, yeah, I haven't I don't know I don't know exactly what to say I'm happy to brainstorm together. I Talked to my older daughter about it in a quieter moment before bedtime that night and I just asked her how it made her feel

and she said it made me feel sad and took all my energy and work that I've done just to not try and fix that or comfort and I just said it made me feel sad too and I told her that that person was having a hard time and that we are good and you know we're okay and you're safe and I don't remember exactly but she then like moved on and asked, like, what book are we reading tonight? But I knew that it was in there, you know? And I think I mentioned something similar to my younger daughter, but she didn't give me the feedback, but I did just sort of try and say some of those words just to try and

make space in her brain to know that, like, something happened. It didn't feel good and we're okay. I think you crushed it. I really mean I think you totally crushed it. Right? And I think this is something whether it's a strange or a restaurant or sometimes it's a grandparent or sometimes for some people it's their co-parent. Where repairing for someone who can't do the repair is really centering our kids' experience. It's like wait, my kid noticed something, my kid absorbed something that didn't feel good. And that moment where they felt kind of scared

or confused or alone, it doesn't really matter at this point who put that moment there, I can help my child not live with this kind of free-floating confusion and anxiety. And that's really what talking about these things does. So I think you did an amazing job. I think another thing I say a lot to my kids is like, you noticed blank, right? You noticed that that woman said these really harsh words about your behavior at the restaurant. And then I don't know why, maybe I do,

but I'm obsessed with this phrase. She's just like, you are right to notice that. I feel like it's saying, like, yeah, that really happened. That thing that you were like putting together, you perceive that correctly. I think I just feel like so many adults think they struggle with most, a self-trust.

Like, do I really feel the things I feel? Did I pick up on something? Or am I making a big deal out of nothing? And I think generation of kids who are raised with like you were right to notice that. It just feels so heartening. So I try to say that a lot to my kids. And again, we could say that if we have a co-parent

who yells at our kid and really struggles to repair. Hey, you noticed mom, you noticed dad yelled at you. Like that happened. You were right to notice that. And I'm sure that registered for you and felt scary. And I'm not even throwing anyone under the bus. I'm just centering my kids' confusion or threat or fear and letting them know they're not alone. And that's what they need. You said more than fixing it is just letting them know that they perceive

something accurately and that they were allowed to have a feeling about it. I love like just the objectivity of that and like they're just not blame anywhere, but just like I see you in this moment that feels bad or whatever it feels like I'm going to definitely use that phrase more. Look, and I can say to you, you were right to notice something that was really messed up and really hurtful and triggering and you seem to have handled that in such a powerful, beautiful growth-producing way

for everyone. So, and I'm really glad you shared this with us. I know so many of us have been there. And what's amazing is I think the next time anyone here right now is there, they're going to be a little bit more prepared to manage that situation and manage the way they feel after. So thank you. Thanks for listening. To share a story or ask me a question, go to goodinside.com slash podcast. You could also write me at podcast at goodinside.com.

Parenting is the hardest and most important job in the world. And parents deserve resources and support so they feel empowered, confident, and connected. I'm so excited to share Good Inside Membership. The first platform that brings together content and experts you trust with a global community of like-valued parents. It's totally game-changing. Good Inside with Dr. Becky is produced by Jesse Baker and Eric Newsom at Magnificent Noise. Our production staff includes Sabrina Farhi, Julia Nat and Kristen Muller. I would also like to thank Eric Kabelski, Mary Panico,

Ashley Valenzuela and the rest of the good inside team. And one last thing before I let you go. Let's end by placing our hands on our hearts and reminding ourselves, even as I struggle, and even as I have a hard time on the outside, I remain good inside. you