Good Inside with Dr. Becky - But Does This Parenting Approach Actually Work?

Episode Date: April 12, 2022

A part of you is skeptical of the Good Inside approach. Or maybe you’ve tried out the scripts and strategies, and it’s just not working. You might be wondering, “How does this actually help a child prepare for the real world? Is this how I should be parenting? Do I believe in this?” Well, you’re asking the right questions, and you found the right episode. This week, Dr. Becky hears from parents who are skeptical about this whole approach. She validates their very real doubts, fears, and frustrations. She connects to their hopes for their kids. And she gives straightforward answers to questions that challenge her beliefs. While this episode is full of scripts and strategies, it also brings up an important foundational idea: It’s okay to be skeptical of Good Inside. Your skepticism means you really care about how you parent your kids—and that means we’re on the same team. Join Good Inside Membership: https://bit.ly/3cqgG2A Follow Dr. Becky on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drbeckyatgoodinside Sign up for our weekly email, Good Insider: https://www.goodinside.com/newsletter Order Dr. Becky's book, Good Inside: A Guide to Becoming the Parent You Want to Be, at goodinside.com/book or wherever you order your books. For a full transcript of the episode, go to goodinside.com/podcast

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Melissa and Doug, timeless toys, endless possibilities. Hi, I'm Dr. Becky, and this is Good Inside. I'm a clinical psychologist and mom of three on a mission to rethink the way we raise our children. I love translating deep thoughts about parenting into practical, actionable strategies that you can use in your home right away. One of my core beliefs is that we are all doing the best we can. With the resources, we have available to us in that moment. So even as we struggle

and even as we are having a hard time on the outside, we remain good inside. I am so excited for this episode and I think you should be excited for this episode too. Why? In this episode, I hear from parents who are skeptical about this whole approach. They are saying, you know, I followed you or maybe my partner follows you and I just don't know. I feel like kids need film the blank, right? I don't know if this approach is going to help my kid

in the long run. Why would my kid learn skills or learn the things they need to learn if I'm essentially condoning all of this bad behavior through not reacting to it or really through not punishing it. Here's something about skepticism. I love skepticism. I really mean that.

I love talking to skeptical people about parenting, about psychology, not because I feel like I need to prove them wrong, but actually because I really believe skepticism sits right next to curiosity. When you're skeptical about something, you're also saying you're really invested in it, right? I'm only skeptical about something that I care about. And when parents care about how they parent their kids, then I feel like we're actually always on the same team.

And we can have really interesting conversations where we both learn a lot, and where we both can evolve in our thinking. And so I am so grateful to all of you who called in with your skepticism, and it led to me having so many thoughts. So many thoughts that in this episode, I answered two voicemails instead of the usual three voicemails because each one allowed me to get into so many different ideas. So with all of that in mind, let's jump in. Let's hear from our first caller. Hi, good afternoon.

My wife said I should call your number. I'm supposed to tell you why I'm skeptical of the good inside parented approach. So here's my questions. We have an 11 year old daughter and an 18 year old son. First, my 11 year old daughter, perhaps like many preteens, has developed quite a sharp tongue on that a few times. She's a wonderfully loving kid, but she's got her moments. I understand what's supposed to stay with her and not, you know, cast her out and send her a room, but it's awfully fun to do that when the problem is that she is just verbally abusing my wife

for myself or our son. How do you keep them benefiting by standing there and subjecting yourself to that kind of abuse? I don't understand how that's beneficial to anyone, and for that matter, it's maybe one of the hardest things I can imagine doing. The other related question is, what did it say to our son, watching his big sister, if we appear to be calving or not cracking down on misbehavior or inappropriate behavior, especially if these ages are not quite sure what message we're sending to him by taking this approach? So those are my questions, I appreciate you listening, and thanks for having me. You're doing.

Those are my questions. Appreciate you listening and thanks for everything you're doing. Hi, so first of all, and I really mean this, thank you so much for calling in. I feel sometimes like I don't have enough connection and communication with parents who are skeptical about this approach and hearing people's skepticism helps me really understand parents hopes for their kids, parents fears for their kids, parents investment in their kids, being skeptical about a parenting approach to me just shows that you really care about your parenting approach. And so you and I are really, I feel like in the same boat, in really caring about how we interact with kids. So now getting to your questions, which were so thoughtful and so important.

First, I always come to the why of kids behavior. Why is a kid who is good inside? Acting in really not so great of a way. I believe you. I believe you that your 11 year old says pretty nasty things to you. I totally believe you. And I would encourage us together to come up with an MGI. What is an MGI? It's what I try to access for my kids as often as possible. Most generous interpretation. What is my most generous interpretation for why my 11 year old would be saying some pretty nasty things to me? I have to be honest, I can't always access an MGI, and the way I can always access it is asking myself this question,

why would I do that to someone? Why would I verbally lash out at someone I love? And I have to be honest, I can't say, well, I would never do that. I would do that. I mean, I have done that. And when I think about those moments, in every single one, I feel unseen.

I feel misunderstood and I feel powerless. And then after that, I think I feel desperate, like really desperate, for that person to know how upset I am and how important this thing is. Maybe so desperate that I have to try to kind of make them feel in their body. How awful I feel in my body, not because I'm sadistic, but because I think that is the only way they could actually believe how much distress I'm in. So if you're willing, I'd encourage you to just entertain that interpretation. Because with that framework, we can then jump to a couple strategies. What I'm thinking about is what can we do in those moments? What can I do in the moment when

my daughter is saying some pretty nasty things to me. And what can I do outside the moment? Outside the moment strategies actually are where the change happens. But we also all need inside the moment strategies to feel capable in tricky situations. So I want to go over both categories. Let's start within the moment. Here are words that come to mind. That I would actually encourage you to practice saying in front of the mirror, saying them out loud, kind of working this new muscle if you're willing to try it out, something like this. Two things are true. I know you're upset, and those feelings are real and important. Also, there are many ways of expressing that to me,

and I know you can come up with another way. What am I doing here? I'm actually naming kind of both of our humanity, right? I'm saying, your feelings are real, and they matter to me, and my experience in this moment is real, and it matters to me. Both things are true.

I might also practice words like this. I love you and I want to get to the bottom of this and that is not happening right now. I think we both need to calm our bodies so we can find a different way to communicate so we can actually get the response we're both looking for. Both of these ways of communicating are very different than go to your room now. You are so rude! Get in your room! Or I am walking away from you, right? In the first and second of what I modeled, the emphasis is really on trying to understand and on the lack of effectiveness. And also, in both of them, I'm expressing a desire and a hope to figure things out.

I'm actually expressing a hope in connection and closeness. In your go-to-your-room situation, the emphasis is really on distance and aloneness. And what kids end up feeling in those situations is, I'm bad. I'm even more misunderstood than before, all alone, nobody in my family gets me, which goes back to that most generous interpretation because those are the very feelings that fuel those explosive moments. What about out of the moment? Well this actually is where the magic happens,

and I feel like this is so important for parents to know, because if you're thinking, okay, Dr. Becky, you really think I'm gonna say those words in a moment that is so different from what I usually do. Maybe not, right? We practice, we build our muscle, maybe you were surprised that those words actually do come to us, but if we know that actually the real change happens

when both people are calm outside of the moment Well, to me that feels much more hopeful for change So here's some language that I would love for you to consider Experimenting with if you feel like the current way of going about the situation with your daughter really isn't working Hey, I've been thinking about these moments between us. They just get so like hot, so out of control and wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, you're not in trouble, right? And I'm going to step out of that roleplay for a second before I step back into that script. That is so important. You might have to say that a number of times, wait, you're not in trouble,

right? Because if a child is used to these moments being met with distance or punishment, they need to constantly essentially be reassured that things are safe and that they can stay in the moment with you. So wait, wait, you're not in trouble. In fact, here's something I've never said to you before. Those not so great moments tell me something really important. They tell me you're super upset about something or maybe many things. And then everything just feels so big and it explodes out of you. I think we're going to figure

this out in moments like this when we're both a little calmer. And so let's try out something different. And then I'd say to your daughter, I want you to tell me one thing, try to start with just one, that makes you really upset in this family, or that's something I totally don't understand about you. And my job during this conversation is to understand. I want to leave this conversation understanding more about your perspective than I came in with.

Now, as a note to you, this is really hard. It is really hard to make understanding the goal because so many of our natural inclination is to prove something or be right. I generally tell myself this before, really difficult conversations with my kids or my partner or a friend, Becky, I can be right or be connected. Becky, choose being connected. Ironically, it's always the right answer. Now, for your son, I hear you.

How do we explain another child's explosive moments to the siblings who are witnessing this? I think I'd say something like this. In our family, we know that when we kind of lose it, it's because we have big feelings that become too big to manage. And actually, I don't know if I've ever said this to you. One of my main jobs, and one of your mom's main jobs too, is to help you, especially when we're calm, learn how to deal with our feelings.

So we can have big feelings and have the skills to express them safely and respectfully. That's really hard to do. We are all working on that in our family. As a final note, I'm thinking a lot about that term cracking down on behavior. And what I would say to that is I actually don't think we want to send our kids a message that we quote, crack down on behavior. I think we want to send them the message that we see behavior as a sign of a more nuanced and much more important story that is begging to be understood. And ironically, that sets the foundation for kids to learn the skills they need to regulate

their feelings. And that is what actually leads to a meaningful change in behavior. Thank you again for calling in with this really important question. This feels so relevant to so many families and I'm really grateful for your starting this conversation. Hey, quick thing. If you follow me on Instagram or if you're a part of the good inside membership, you probably know I've written a book and I'm so excited to say that you no longer have to pre-order it. You can order it because it's available right now.

You might have guessed the title is Good Inside, a guide to becoming the parent you want to be. And let me be clear, it's not a book or perfect parenting. It is a book that will help parents like you feel empowered, confident, and sturdy. Visit GoodInside.com slash book to order your copy today. Now let's get back to the episode. And now our second caller, Darcy. This is Darcy and my kids are three and one,

and I'm raising them in the best bet. You know, I would say my skepticism comes when you've tried it the right way so many times in a row and it just isn't budging, right? Like, you followed the script, you said the thing you were supposed to say a hundred times, but these kids, man, they just keep going in their own direction. And at some point, you just want to be like, because I said so, you know, or like, I'm taking away your candy. You know, I don't know.

It's like, it's just so hard when you try it day after day after day after day, and see nothing. And you know some of these parenting choices that you don't describe to are quick fixes. So, like, you know they work in the moment and it's just so hard to see the thing that doesn't work in the immediate. Hi Darcy, you raised so many important points. And I want to actually talk to a bunch of them. One is the point of change. And what change looks like and what it doesn't look like. I think we all need to kind of wrap our minds around that because we need to have a reasonable sense of what change looks like with

kids to be able to tolerate so many of these messy moments. The other thing you're talking about is the idea of what's working, right? Which is something that comes up a lot. Hey, is this gonna work for my child? And I think that I often ask myself, well, what does working mean? Right, what does that really mean?

So I wanna get to that. And then the other thing you bring up is these kind of other approaches, maybe their punishments or consequences or timeouts and how we can kind of reframe how we think about those. Okay, let's jump in. First point, I feel like this is an inconvenient truth of parenting. Okay, and I'm just going to say it because I feel like it's important to name inconvenient truths rather than avoid them. Change takes longer than we want it to.

I go, never a parent says to me, okay, how long is this going to take? I really, I always say longer than you want it to. That's the only thing I know. It always does, and I know that in my own house, when my daughter's had a difficult sleeping stage, when my kids have had a really difficult sibling argument stage, I tell myself at some point this will end and it's going to last much longer than I want it to. Always true. I'm gonna try to express this idea in a visual and I want you to kind of imagine what I'm saying because I find this really helpful to hold onto.

Observable change with kids, I believe looks like a step function, right? So if we go back to some early math classes, maybe we took a step function is one, which there's a straight horizontal line. And then suddenly, there's a straight vertical line, right, a 90 degree angle. And then there's another straight horizontal line, right? Where there is a day with kids, where you think, wow, all of a sudden, you're reading, all of a sudden, you're able to take a deep breath. How did that happen? That's observable change. I think the process of change actually looks like a steady uphill.

That before the child takes a deep breath instead of throwing a crayon at their sister, they are working on things and they are making progress, but we can't observe it. And I find that really helpful when I'm in one of these messy stages with my kids. Okay, we're in that part of change where it's not observable. But if I believe, in the way I'm interacting with my kid, then I believe these skills are being built in their body. Okay, point two. Having said all those things about change, two things are true here. Change takes time,

and we need to experiment with new things. I think both are equally true. It takes time for our approaches to have the impact we want them to have on our kids. And it's important to pause and say, huh, is there anything I'm missing? What else is involved here? What am I not attending to? Is there a different way to extend the general framework of how I want to interact with my kids and apply it with a new strategy that might click better with my child. So that leads me to point three, Darcy.

And it's a little tricky, honestly, because I don't know the details about what you feel is hard in your home and isn't working. But I'm going to make up a situation that hopefully is something similar to what's happening in your house. So in my practice, when families tell me, you know, Dr. Becky, your approach, it's not working, right? We talk about working again based on process versus observable change. And I think it's really important to hold both of those. But we often end up talking about boundaries. And here's why. Yes, this approach cares about kids' feelings. We validate feelings. We're there for them in their feelings and that is not helpful all by itself.

Validating feelings and caring about your kids' feelings. That is part of an effective approach that includes firm, not scary, boundaries. So what does that really mean in real life? Let me give this example. Let's say your older child is in a hitting phase with your younger child. Here's some validation. It's hard to have a sister. I know. Or you really wanted that crann. You really wanted it. You really wanted that crann. Next time tell me instead of hitting your sister, right? Maybe outside the moment we say, oh, do you ever feel jealous? I feel jealous too, right? And we think I am doing the work.

I am validating those feelings. I am parenting in such a different way than I was parented. That part feels really good. Yes. And when a kid is out of control, it feels even more out of control to them. If they have a parent who's only validating their feelings and is not setting the boundaries they need for containment, when a child is out of control, a child needs a parent to be the container for them that they cannot create for themselves. Boundaries plus validation plus empathy. That is kind of the key equation

in this approach. So here's some example of boundaries. I won't let you hit your sister. I actually then put my hand on my child's wrist if I can catch the hit kind of mid-air, right? I might say, I won't let you hit your sister. I know you wanted that crayon. I'm pulling you to the side to keep both of you safe. I'm going to help you figure out another way to tell your sister you want it for yourself. I am showing my child they're a good kid.

I am showing them I care about their feelings and I am stepping in as the warm and firm authority they need. Now I want to contrast this with what is not a boundary. Stop hitting your sister. We don't hit people. Please stop hitting your sister. Why would you hit your sister? You know other ways to communicate. That is not a boundary. That is actually not part of this approach because we are in many ways asking a child

to do the job that is ours. And that makes a child more dysregulated. Here's another example of a boundary that would be even more of kind of my favorite type of boundary because we're setting it in advance. You know what I'm thinking about? Your sister's about to wake up from her nap and join us. I wonder what that's going to be like. It's hard to have a sister and share mommy, isn't it? I'm going to stay super close to you while you play. Because my number one job is to keep you safe and right now safety means staying close and making sure I help you with your body

before a feeling gets too big to manage. So I might at some point pull you aside. You're not in trouble. It just might be a good time to take a breath or get a hug from me or maybe even we could hit a pillow to get some of those angry feelings out. Now, I'm really embodying this approach of I am setting a boundary, I am being the container

they can't be for themselves. Now I can validate the feelings because I'm keeping my child safe along the way. Next one I want to talk about, quick fixes. It's an interesting phrase for me, right? That's saying, I'm going to take away your iPad if you don't cooperate or, oh, you hit your sister, go to your room, time out, and no TV tonight. And then we might think, huh, that's going to get a quicker change in behavior. Well, here's the thing.

What's really happening is we're inducing a state of fear and threat in a child. A child feels threatened when they're sent away because from an attachment perspective, distance is scary. Kids literally need proximity to their parents, especially when they feel out of control to feel safe. So what I'm doing in those situations is inducing fear

by saying go away or by using a scary voice or actually making my kid further identify with the bad kid role by doling out various punishments. Now let's say that does kind of stop behavior in the short term. Let's fast forward because I think we all know we're not only parenting for that moment. We're parenting for the rest of our kids' lives and we're setting them up for how they're going to respond to things when they're older. Now our child is 15.

There's only two options at that point. Either the fear remains and the fear is what motivates what a child does. Or the fear is no longer there because a child actually isn't as scared of us when they're 15 is when they're three. Let's go through both situations. The fear remains and I'm thinking as a parent, wow, my child is immediately compliant as a result that's amazing. Well, this is what it also means for a child that they learn to fear the people who are close to them. They learn that love and fear actually go hand in hand

in relationships. They fear the world. They fear their friends. They fear romantic partners. This sets up a child for codependency, for low self-worth, for an inability to know and stand up for what you want because your needs and your feelings were always the thing that got in your way of close relationships. I don't know many parents who say, I want that for my 15 year old, for my 35 year old. Now, here's a different outcome.

Now my child is 15 and they realize, oh, I'm pretty big, I don't really have to go to a time out anymore and I'm no longer that three-year-old scared child. I can remember really, really vividly a session with parents in this exact situation where they came to me saying, my 15-year-old is completely out of control. We've had struggles for a while and we've seen so many professionals, and we've had a system of rewards and timeouts and punishments and sticker charts and now my child is 15 and he won't go to school.

He's refusing to go. And the other day he yelled at me, you have no power over me anymore. You can't do anything about it. And as we unpacked it, there was something very sadly true that in these 15 years of approaching their child, essentially with behavioral control, they missed out on 15 years of developing a relationship with the child, and now that the fear was removed. The child had no more regulation skills, no more connection, than they did early on in their lives. Now, not all is lost.

This family, we did a lot of work together, and yes, the work was hard, and yes, the family made progress. And I remember this parent saying to me, you know, for so many years, I was kind of obsessed with things working. Like, I want something to be different right away and these systems feel so logical. And I just didn't realize that that actually wasn't a measure of the things that really matter in our family, or matter for the type of kid I want my child to become.

So these quote, quick fixes, I kind of think we have to call bullshit on them. They're not quick fixes. In many ways, they're completely the opposite. There's no way to completely summarize this, but I feel compelled to say this. Punishing behavior isn't a way to change behavior. Punishing behavior isn't a way to change behavior. Kids are more than a behavior. They're the story underneath the behavior and actually understanding feelings and urges

and thoughts that motivate behavior. It's not soft, it's not even gentle, it's effective. Not only does it preserve a relationship with your child, it's the only way to help them learn the skills that they need for their life and that actually result in the change in behavior not from a place of fear, but from a place of competence. And I know that's what I'm really hoping for for my kids. Thank you so much, Darcy, and our anonymous caller for sharing your skepticism. And as a result, allowing us together to co-create

this really important episode. And for all of you out there who have thought about calling in with your question and have been hesitant to share your name, please know you can always make up a name or call in without a name. Let's tie this all together with three takeaways. One, change takes longer than we want it to. That's kind of the truth about change for our kids, probably for ourselves as well. Think about the difference between the process of change and

observable change, and in moments when you feel frustrated, remember that there is growth happening under the surface. Two, outside of difficult moments is where the magic happens. I always think to myself, when it comes to interacting with my kids, I need one, maybe two skills max to draw from in difficult moments. I basically just need to survive them. After that, I can constantly build a repertoire of skills to connect to my child and better understand them and are dynamic outside of the moment.

3. If you have a skeptical partner or co-parent or a grandparent, it's easy to come at them from a place of being right or convincing. I know this because that's often my default as well. Try to connect with them and name that you both care a lot about how you interact with your kids and you both want the same things for them. The script I modeled in my answer to the first caller about how the father can interact with his 11-year-old probably can be used almost word-for for word with the skeptical caregiver.

Name your goal to understand them instead of to prove something as right. Thanks for listening to Good Inside. I love co-creating episodes with you based on the real-life tricky situations in your family. To share what's happening in your home, you can call 646-598-2543 or email a voice note to goodinsidepodcast at gmail.com. There are so many more strategies and tips I want to share with you and so many good inside parents I want you to meet. On Beyond excited that we now have a way to connect and learn together. Head to goodinside.com to learn more about good inside membership. I promise you, it's totally game-changing. And follow me on Instagram and Facebook at Dr. Becky at Good Inside for a daily dose of parenting and self-care ideas.

Good Inside with Dr. Becky is produced by Beth Roe and Marie Cecil Anderson, an executive produced by Erica Belzky and me, Dr. Becky. If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to rate and review it. Or share this episode with a friend or family member as a way to start an important conversation. Let's end by placing our hands on our hearts and reminding ourselves, even as I struggle, and even as I have a hard time on the outside, I remain good inside.