Good Inside with Dr. Becky - Clean Plate Club

Episode Date: March 28, 2023

Truth: Feeding small children is hard and stressful. But here's another truth: You are a good parent even if your kid is only eating crackers right now. You are a good parent even if your kid hasn't touched a vegetable in months. And you are a good parent if you are bottle feeding instead of breastfeeding. What your child eats or doesn't eat isn't an indication of your parenting. This week Dr. Becky and Megan McNamee of Feeding Littles get real and deep about feeding small children and everything it can bring up.Join Good Inside Membership: bit.ly/3yV6YgHFollow Dr. Becky on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drbeckyatgoodinsideSign up for our weekly email, Good Insider: https://www.goodinside.com/newsletterOrder Dr. Becky's book, Good Inside: A Guide to Becoming the Parent You Want to Be, at goodinside.com/book or wherever you order your books.For a full transcript of the episode go to goodinside.com/podcast 

When I found out that I was going to have a daughter, my first baby, I was in tears. It was all because I was terrified that she would go down and eat disorder, slash dieting, body hatred path that I had lived. And I didn't tell anyone that. I didn't admit that for many, many years. I, of course, was so excited to meet her. And I love being a mom to two girls. And I think I was given two girls for that reason to kind of address that own fear in myself. And not that, you know, boys can't go through this

exact same thing either. But I was so worried that I would pass on my own crap to my daughters. Our relationship with food is loaded and it starts at a really young age. I don't know many people who don't have some type of personal story around their relationship with food around their relationship to their body or how those all played out in their own childhood with their own parent. And actually being a parent has been so healing for me because I can do it differently. I have the knowledge and the background to know

how to help them develop a healthy relationship with food, help them have a healthier way of interacting with and feeling about their bodies that I grew up with. Megan McNamy is a registered dietician nutritionist, specializing in maternal child nutrition, food sensitivities, and eating disorder prevention. You might know her better as one of the brains behind the Instagram account feeding littles. If you have a baby starting solids or small children struggling with picky eating, or if you just want to raise intuitive eaters who love all types of

foods and know how to eat for their bodies, then turn this episode up. When I was born in the 80s, we didn't have nearly as much knowledge as we do now about how our actions and our language affect our kids. So once I realized, wow, I can really make a difference here and I can change this narrative for my own kids, I felt so much more empowered. And my approach to food that I hope our audience feels from how we talk about it is yes nutrition is important. Yes, we want our kids to love eating nourishing vital foods. We want them to enjoy eating a whole bunch of types of foods. And we

also want them to enjoy foods that are just good for the soul and not have any hangups about it. Not feeling weird about, I had an apple and then I had a cookie and the both foods can fit and both have their own purposes. And that's kind of what we're trying to teach parents to do is grow past their issues with food so that they can see food as neutral, you know, morally neutral,

and allow their children to learn to eat in a way that feels good to their bodies, not because of external influences that tell them this is going to make you fat. You need to eat this to safe them. That's what we grew up with. That's what I don't want for the next generation. That's what we grew up with. That's what I don't want for the next generation. I'm Dr. Becky and this is good inside. We'll be back in a minute. Hey Sabrina. Hey. So I've been thinking about toys recently. I don't want the toy to do that much of the work. I want the toy to inspire my kid to do the work.

Because actually the toys that get really busy and do a lot of things, kids actually lose interest in so quickly. Oh, totally. There are certain toys that my kids have just played with throughout the years. I have a six-year-old and a three-year-old. Like what? So I have these wooden blocks from Melissa and Doug.

They're super simple. Just plain wooden, no-color. And my kids love them. They're always building kessles or like a dinosaur layer. And then my oldest will tell my youngest to like decorate them after he's built this crazy cool structure. My go-to's are Melissa and Doug too. I feel like we have this ice cream scooper thing that my kids use when they were two.

And then they used again when they were developing better fine motor skills. And then for my kind of four year old, my seven year old, still using it in imaginative play. I really only like talking about items and brands that we actually use in our own home and Melissa and Doug. I just don't know if there's any other brand I feel so good about naming the way that their toys actually inspire creativity and open-ended screen-free child-led play.

It's just unmatched. And what's honestly so exciting is to be able to offer everyone listening to this podcast, 20% off. Visit MelissaAndUg.com and use code Dr. Becky20DRBECKY20 for 20% off your order. Melissa and Doug, timeless toys, endless possibilities. I'm so glad I started with this question, because what you're saying, no, but what you're saying, Megan, it resonates with everything I care about in the parenting world. And what you're saying, No, but what you're saying, Megan, it resonates with everything I care about

in the parenting world. And what you're saying, Megan, like your journey with your kids, what you do in your cookbook on Instagram in your courses, all explicitly is about how parents interact with kids. But your journey started with your own stuff. Our journey's all start with our own stuff,

which you're right, we're confronted by. We're smacked in the face and we advocate. It's like that mirror. And I want you to know, I don't know if you know this about me. I suffered from eating disorder. Also, I suffered with anorexia when I was a high school senior. It was a very, very core part of my childhood, of my kind of figuring out my identity,

figuring out who I really was, figuring out it's okay to feel angry, figuring out it's okay to take up space. And yes, with my own kids as well, around food stuff, around their body, trying to get from, oh no, am I gonna mess up my kids to whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I actually have so much knowledge, I have so much experience,

and this is actually gonna be that much stronger of a why for me. Right. And it sounds like that's a why for so much of your professional identity and career as well. And I just got emotional even thinking about it. As you said that, because now that my oldest is 10, she has language and a little bit of understanding to tell me how she's feeling about this. And she lives in a slightly bigger body than her friends.

And just like I was as a kid. And she'll even say to me, Mom, a boy might call me fat or whatever. And she's like, I don't get it. She's like, why do we all have to be the same sizes? My friends will turn around and say, no, you're skinny, you're skinny. And I'll say, I don't want to be skinny. I don't need to be skinny. I don't need to be skinny. I need to be me.

I want to be me. And it feels so good to me because it's not just working with her and helping her break that cycle for her. It's helping me heal my stuff too. It's like, oh my gosh, I wish I had this when I was a kid. Of course, we have these journeys to teach us things and help us do better. But I'm so grateful that she has that perspective and see that her body is, you know, to quote you, do redefined her body as an instrument. It's not an ornament. Yep. And I love that she loves her strength and she feels so good about herself. And I'm sure the world is

going to tear her down the older she gets, but she just has such a, she's just starting so much higher on that mountain, she just already has this core belief that her body is good no matter what. So if you're tuning in and you thought Megan and I were just gonna get into some, you know, here and there, say this, do this, you know, I hope you have the tissues ready. But I always love to do, get deep and get concrete.

We need both ends. Mm-hmm. But maybe actually, Megan, I feel like probably everyone listening can pause and probably reflect on the messages they got growing up about their body, about women and men's bodies around morality, of food and body size, what is better, what is good, what is lazy, what is determined, these things. We don't always consciously know that they're coming up when our kid is having that second helping of dessert.

We don't know what's coming up when our kids as this food is disgusting, but actually reflecting on kind of all those lessons we've learned that really do live somewhere in our bodies. It is really the most important foundation, I think. I love that. Half the time when I would work with clients, most sessions would end in some sort of tears or stuff.

There would be tears involved because food is emotional. It is so primal. Feeding your child, especially if it doesn't go well. Judy uses this analogy all the time. Judy's my business partner. She's an occupational therapist. She's super fun and totally gets kids. And she'll say, okay, if your child isn't moving as we expect, you'd have them see a physical therapist. If they can't see, you'd have them go to an optometrist. If they're not eating, everyone thinks it's their fault. And it doesn't make sense. We trust that, you know, if they have problems or something, we'll ask an expert, we'll seek help. But suddenly when it comes to food,

it's all on us. And oftentimes it's all on the mom. And it feels so personal. And it feels like this should be the one thing that I could do and I can't. And it starts actually right at birth that starts with breastfeeding and you know, it doesn't even get me started in a minute. Yeah. So it's one of those scenes where you have expectations and you have all these messages that you expect to fulfill this rule that and then you get this distressed in your body if it's not going well and like, and then when your child eats if they're not figuring out fast again you feel like it's your fault

you must be doing something wrong. Well there's such a huge variety of difference in children when it comes to eating and their skills even just what we consider typical. There's a massively wide variety and I just want parents to know that if feeding their kid feels hard, they're probably doing just fine. It is hard for so many parents. I think we have such pressure on ourselves that parents 20, 30 years ago didn't even experience because we put so much emphasis on nutrition. Again, I think nutrition is super important and it's great that we're learning about how to fuel ourselves better and there's so much more science coming out. And yes,

these are important things. But the expectation on parents now is like, if your kid doesn't eat like a kale blueberry salad, you know, with gusto, then you're messing up. It's your problem. Yeah. Well, I didn't eat that when I was a kid. I don't know about you. Not even like it was kale even around. It was a garnish. I think it was kale even around. It was a carnage. I think it was just invent basically. I mean, there's so many things I want to double click on.

So going back to how it starts, I think, and I'm going to speak as a woman, and I do think this is, I don't know if it's more common for women, but I hear from it more, from women, that unconsciously we are always looking for some barometer outside of us to tell us that we're good enough. It's so almost radical to feel like we can look inside and just be good enough.

That's why I feel like that phrase good inside. I was like, we do have inherent goodness, but we are not taught that. And so we're always trying to figure it out outside in. And once we have a baby, the kind of feeding, it is, and then to some degree sleeping, but definitely feeding becomes our barometer of whether a good mom. And even just realizing this is so helpful because no, whoa, I think I'm doing this thing. Like breast

feeding goes well or bottle feeding go well. And, and I'm, yeah, of course, the day is easier, but it's more than that. It feels like the whole world is saying, I am a good parent. I am easily sustaining my child. I am good. And then the baby vomit, so rejects the bottle or won't feed. And the reason it feels so awful is not because it's a tough feeding day. It's because something's happened

where I've lost the ability to feel like a good parent. And what I love about your work so much is the way you separate the process of eating for a kid is way more important than the consumption itself. Because what are kids will remember what they're really encoded in their body is not the broccoli they swallowed. Is was food stressful? Did it lead to a lot of tension?

Did I feel like a bad kid or a good kid based on what happened around the table? Was their guilt, was their shame, was their fear? That stuff lives within us way longer than the broccoli or the cow blueberry salad does. Right. I love that. And I literally am feeling it. My body is you say it because sometimes even in my own work, I get so granular. And I'm not a psychologist, obviously,

and to hear you put it in that perspective, I'm like, oh, yes, yes, that's such a light bulb moment for me too. It's the feeling and kids are going to remember the feeling at the table. They're not going to remember what you put on the plate. They are not, and their bodies will actually be more impacted by those feelings than they will about each moment to moment, you know, nutrition, assuming that you live in a house, which you might not, but if you do live in a house where they're generally as food available and they're generally

as a wide range, the stress. And so I think just everyone listening now, like one of my favorite exercises to do with anything I'm stressed about is to really separate being a good mom from any one moment. So we've is to really separate being a good mom from any one moment. So we've been saying, I'm a good mom whose kind of dinner time is stressful. I'm a good parent with a kid who is only eating crackers right now. Just saying that to yourself forces us to separate my good parent identity from my kids eating

behavior because when we don't do it explicitly, I'm sure you see this all the time, Megan. The two things become collapsed. Yes. And then we're not even helping our kids with feeding. We're actually using our kids to try to feel good about ourselves as a parent. They're like a pawn in our own identity game, which we don't really want to do. That doesn't really benefit anyone. Oh, I'm literally, these are light bulb moments for me too,

because you're connecting so many pieces that I see all day, and then I haven't necessarily put together in this way in my brain. So walk us through a scenario. What, what do you know? Like, you know, everyone listening here, their parents, they've kids, food is stressful. I'm not trying to say, like, just everyone knows, I don't have some like Zen moment. My husband probably listening, being like, Becky, please tell everyone that you can also get triggered by food. So yes, I can too. I can say it one way and still experience it differently. So what do you see? Let's walk through a stressful kind of meal or snack time situation. And then let's let's brainstorm

a little together. So very common for, you know, it's the end of the day. Maybe your kids coming out from school or daycare, they're really tired. Now, there's so many different ways this can go. Maybe they're snacking, right? And they're in the kitchen. They're begging's so many different ways this can go. Maybe they're snack-changry, right? And they're in the kitchen, they're begging, they're begging, they're begging. Right, it's like intense. Okay. And you're like trying to like saute something.

Yes. And you're literally chopping and trying not to like burn the baby and like cut your hand off at the same time. And your child is literally running into the pantry, pulling stuff out. And it's so challenging because you're like, I don't want to yell at them around food, but I also don't want to spend all this time

and money making something that they're not even going to eat because they're full. So this is hard. And what we tell parents all the time is like, think about even when you get really hungry, if you're making dinner, like you're probably eating a little bit of it with you, you know, as you go, you're probably snacking a little bit

because you're so hungry. It's okay if your kids to also be hungry in that that moment and what helps in our family just specifically for this. I know we're gonna we're gonna brainstorm but just for this issue. A designated like premile snack. Something that's not super filling. I mean pretzels, your kid has like five pretzels whatever. They're not gonna be full. We'll do something like dry cereal or if you straw berries or like if you feel like cucumber or something like that. Throw them in a bowl. Okay we're gonna have snack be full. We'll do something like dry cereal or a few strawberries or like if you feel like cucumber, something like that. Throw them in a bowl.

Okay, we're going to have snack real quick. I know you're starving. Let's just take the edge off. So would you do that to like to front end it? Like don't even wait for that chaotic moment. Your kid comes home. Is that what I'm just curious to like get really quickly? Absolutely.

We always talk about having like a routine around meals and snacks, so there's predictability for your child and for you, but you also need to know your kid within that. So you might have already had a snack that day or two snacks, you know, between lunch and dinner and your kids famished. They're not going to feel great if they sit down for a meal and they're so hungry that they're angry, right? Just taking the edge off with a little pre-dinner snack

like that can really help. Dissert kitty to pound a strawberries and now you're kind of screwed at that dinner, yeah. But you know what, we take from that, we learn and we move on to the next meal. Fortunately, we get another chance to eat because it happens often. That is really true, right?

And I do think one of the things I'm trying to work on in my own parenting is reminding myself, like I trust myself and my parenting beyond proving it in a moment. Okay, that moment wasn't what I wanted. That doesn't become the parent I am. I can trust that I can do it differently tomorrow, like you're saying.

So to walk through that, if I put that into action in my house, I might even say to my kid before they get onto the bus in the morning, hey, just want to let you know, when you come home, I know you've been really hungry. We usually have this thing. I'm cooking, you run to the pantry, I burn the food.

We both yell. Nobody wins. So instead today, there's going to be some snacks out. There's going to be fruit. There's going to be strawberries and peppers. And I like that. There's also going to be some pretzel crisps. That's fine too.

That's the snack. You might say you want to go to the pantry. It's going to be a note of the pantry because we have this available. Yep. Everybody likes to eat when they're home from school. And that will help us kind of have a I don't know Easier time before dinner like something like that absolutely. Okay. I think communication is really big with that

Especially if you haven't been doing stuff like that way and again This might not be what you choose. Maybe you say hey go pick out, you know a little prepackage something from the pantry Because that's all you can manage right now and we're talking like right before dinner is served. Obviously, your kid comes home much earlier. My kids get off at 215. So I plan a really substantial snack because there is some sort of weird phenomenon no matter when you pick your child up from daycare school, whatever it is, they are starving.

It is guaranteed no matter what the time is, no matter when you pick them up, they're gonna be hungry. So planning for that, planning for their needs to be met and just realizing too, they are in growing bodies, they're going to be hungry. So planning for that, planning for their needs to be met, and just realizing too, they are in growing bodies, they're learning. So their brains are, you know, hot all day long, right? They're literally using up energy emotionally, intellectually, physically. And now maybe you're adding in an hour or two sports practice as they get older. Of course, they're going to be starving. And it's okay. It's okay if they don't, if they eat a whole

bunch of snacks sometimes and they dinner doesn't go well. It's okay because you know what? Yeah. You learn from that. And you'll do it differently next time if you, if you can. And maybe you won't next time. It's just feeding is a long game. It is not like meal to meal. Yes. And then you can remind yourself, okay, like I'm going to focus on lowering stress and yelling and guilt, even if it means they snacked instead of dinner. Then I'm gonna learn from it tomorrow. And just for a parent to remind themselves, like that's a really solid parenting decision. Again, I trust myself.

I can learn from this, I can move on. My kid eating snacks instead of whatever kind of chicken I made, it doesn't mean I'm a bad parent and it doesn't mean I have a bad kid. It doesn't mean I'm a bad parent and it doesn't mean I have a bad kid. Hey, good inside members. If this episode has you thinking, but what do I do when my kid has two bites of dinner and then asks for dessert? Or okay, how do I get my kid to try real food instead of just eat snacks all day?

I've got you covered. Search food battles in the member library for a step-by-step approach to managing meals, snacks, and desserts, and reducing the meltdowns that come along the way. And if you're not a member yet, follow the link in the show notes or head to goodinside.com to learn how you can join today. GoodInside.com to learn how you can join today. One thing that's woven into what we talk about a lot, and I don't know if people pick up on this nuance. The reason we are not crazy prescriptive about food is because being really rigid about food leads to really rigid behaviors around food as kids get older, dieting beliefs, restrictive behaviors.

So I almost never use the word never when we're talking about things. Mm. Like, we don't eat that in our house. So that's, what are you here from, and I know this, and I know you agree, the most well-meaning parents. Like, what are some of the things that you might say, let's create a little dissonance around that. Here's why we might want to shift away from some of those phrases.

I would never feed my child that. I would never feed my child that. There's a morality there. Yep, right? So now food is equated with kind of being good or bad, right? You should never have any sugar or that has way too much sugar. You're not allowed to eat that. You should never have any sugar or that has way too much sugar. You're not allowed to eat that You know, we teach kids very passively. We don't realize it But we teach them about food and their bodies by how we talk about it when it relates to us or even talking about other people And they quickly learn this is good. This is bad. I am good for eating this. I am bad for eating this and It's it's really hard to tease apart the person from the behavior and the reason

You'll see like if you kind of pay attention to the things we talk about There is always a caveat. There's always an exception You know, do we want to feed our kids donuts every day for breakfast? And my house that wouldn't go very well. My kids would not feel good They wouldn't probably have the most focused behavior at school with that like sugar rush. But do we sometimes have donuts? Yes. And do we enjoy them? When we eat them? Yes. We don't sit and talk about, oh, this is this has sugar. We shouldn't eat this. You know, all of the guilt and those feelings that we've been brought up with, they're just not productive in teaching kids about food in their bodies. It literally, that black and white thinking leads to black and white thinking when they're teenagers.

Leads to, I'm not allowed to eat carbs when they're 22. Leads to very disordered behavior as they get older. We want them to feel pretty neutral, morality-wise when it comes to food. And I want to assure parents listening that that kind of relative neutrality that doesn't mean that kids will say, Oh, well, if it's all kind of neutral, I guess I'm only going to eat and then fill in the blank with foods that feel kind of scary or junky to you.

That's actually really not what it means. But when we think about disordered eating, when we think about the most extreme versions of that or even just the guilt and shame that can accompany food patterns, those all develop because food has actually stopped being about food. It starts being about proving your identity,

being good, being lovable, being worthy, being bad, being lazy, being disgusting. Then you have to avoid foods and get really extreme, just to feel like a good, secure, safe, lovable person inside. So no wonder, disordered eating really happens down the line. It's not really about the food. It's about kind of the preservation of goodness, which we don't want for our kids. And again, if we lean into trust versus a control,

when kids are able to differentiate their goodness as a person from a specific food they're eating, that's actually the foundation for more mindfully eating. Most people, when they get older, they don't want donuts every day that actually doesn't feel great in their body. They want a variety of foods over a period of time. And what's so funny is that people assume you're just going to go way down one direction.

This is actually a process of intuitive eating called unconditional permission to eat. It's the first step of intuitive eating. It's allowing yourself to eat with unconditional permission. with unconditional permission. And there's some kind of rebound that happens where oftentimes people go kind of one direction so far, they almost don't want to eat anything they associated with their dieting behaviors because it feels like a diet food to them. I recently heard a quote from Evelyn Tribbley,

who is the co-author of Intuitive Eating, and I know her personally and adore her. And she said, Diet culture doesn't get to claim salads. They don't get to have salads just because it's been associated with dieting before. Salads can be really good. Just because we're allowing ourselves

to eat a variety of foods and finding food is neutral doesn't mean you're not gonna gravitate towards food that actually feel good on your body. Actually, the opposite happens. When you allow yourself permission, you say, I can't have the cookie if I want, but what actually feels good to me right now. That's where we want to get to with not just ourselves, hopefully one day,

but also our kids. We want our kids making decisions about food based on how they feel on their body and what they know they're going to do that day. Yes. So I hear parents, even though I'm not like I imagine parents are listening okay, okay, Becky, okay, Megan, but my kid only wants donuts and butter pasta and then any snack that's packaged, any of those that's good too. But they are so picky. They're so picky and they're no longer three. They're eight or can you talk a little bit about picky eating, how it develops, how you think about it, when it's kind of in place in the moment in a family, how you think about helping a parent,

I don't know if the right word is unwind or kind of figure it out. That's a great question. You know, they say picky eating is only an American thing that it's so much more intense here. And I think it's a very nuanced, complicated issue, because we have a different food culture here than there is in other parts of the world.

We have kid food quote unquote here. We have this phenomenon of kid food that many other countries don't have. And there is a time period between 12 and 24 months, it kind of varies for each child. It could be even later or earlier than that, where they go from being more accepting with variety of foods to suddenly food neophobic or fearful of new foods,

or even fearful foods that they loved before. And it's very jarring because a lot of times again, we put this big pat on our back if our kids eating well and we're like, it's because I'm doing it. I'm finally being good parent. I'm doing it. And then finally being a good parent, I'm doing it. And then it's suddenly, oftentimes, very suddenly switches.

And now it feels like, well, I can't get them to eat anymore. I'm not doing what I'm supposed to be doing. It's actually considered very typical for a child to suddenly not with the foods that used to want. And they theorize it's because that's around the time your child is getting more physically independent. They can move oftentimes, they can run away, they can wander into the forest and eat the poisonous berry. It is considered theorized to be hardwired into them,

to be fearful of that berry, because something they don't know and trust could hurt them, could harm them. That makes so much sense. I never knew that. So I remember those periods in my kid, right? And I do, I remember the mom's group where it was equated with my,

it felt equated my goodness. I remember one of my kids, and I was like, you're getting broccoli. Like, oh my goodness, Becky. Like, it was like, I became the star mom because my kid was like popping broccoli, right? And then he stopped eating broccoli. And I really did. I felt embarrassed. I didn't want to have those lunches with my friends or we are feeding babies. But what you're saying, it is normal at a time

when your kid is getting older and they're exploring more, actually from an evolutionary perspective, it makes sense that they'd be more guarded and hyper vigilant. It's protective. It's literally considered protective. And if you think about evolution over thousands, hundreds of thousands of years, we only really discovered nutrients and micronutrients in the 50s. We have not had this hyper focus on nutrition very long when it comes to an evolutionary standpoint. So it's very, very normal for your child to kind of bait and switch you.

And now they don't want to eat anything that they used to eat before. I also wanted to point out that if you think about things like fruits and vegetables, which are like the, you know, halo, they have the halo of all the foods that we're supposed to be getting our kids to eat that this is really what everyone should eat most of. They're actually quite unpredictable. Judy always talks about, okay, let's think about a blueberry for a second. That sucker can be big or small, super sweet or really sour. It can be mushy.

It can have a texture you did not expect. I'm sure a lot of you listening have fruit fans at home and you go through a ton of berries at home. You might notice like this season, this past winter, they were giant blueberries that looked amazing and they were sour. And that is very scary for a child who doesn't understand like, oh, you know what, these fresh produce items are going to be different every time you eat them. Oh, let's also throw in the fact that sometimes we cook the carrots, sometimes we don't. Maybe there's a spicy seasoning on it, maybe there's salt, maybe there's not. We really mix it up on them. The reason they gravitate toward beige starchy foods is because that's a predictable food with predictable texture.

They know what to expect. And so packaged food. Yeah, it's kind of always the same. It's always the same. There's a mean that we kind of did a post on. It was like, it was about blueberries, like, or apples or something like summer. This color, summer this, summer mealie, summer mushy, summer crisp, summer not. But you know what?

Never let you down? Doritos. They're the same every time. You really never do. Cool ranch nacho cheese. Not that. Cool ranch. Yeah.

Yeah. There's a reason why your child likes that food, the predictability is built in. Okay, so this all makes sense, because I also think just very concretely. So you have to that stage for people who are listening of that younger kid, maybe they're no longer eating the foods. When we are able to separate kind of who we are as a parent and how good we are from that moment in front of us,

I feel like we free ourselves up to say something like, you're not so sure about this broccoli today. I don't know, just something like totally neutral. It's okay. So I want to walk through a few just concrete steps to take. Great. First and foremost, kids can take 15, 20 plus plus plus exposures of a given food to like to like it to eat it. So it's really easy to give up. You give them something one time and they don't want it. It's easy to assume they're never going to eat it. But the only way they're going to learn about it,

learn to eat it one day is to be exposed over time. They might pick it up, smell it, put it back. They might even taste it and spit it out. These are all part of the process and they're actually what are called pre-feeding steps. It's actually great when your child even touches it. It's actually a good step in the right direction. So, trying not to get frustrated if they are rejecting or rejecting because it does take time for certain foods, for a lot of kids. It takes time for them to want to eat it. You are still responsible for what goes on the plate. So if for them to want to eat it. You are still responsible

for what goes on the plate. So if you want your kids to love veggies one day, it is important to try to put a vegetable on the plate when you can. If you're eating it, plop a piece on there for them. One thing that I think people forget is that kids don't need as much food as adults and serving sizes that we put on plates can be really daunting and overwhelming for a little kid, especially if that's the kind of a scary food for them. One piece of broccoli, one pea. I know it sounds silly, because people are like, what is that even going to do? Well, okay, if a less intimidating amount of food actually allows them to want to try it, even if that's all they eat, that's the win. They've tried it. And now

they might think, okay, maybe next time I'll try this again, maybe next time I'll have two pieces of the broccoli versus overwhelming and indedating their plate and even forcing them to try it and maybe turning them off a bit forever because they're just not ready for it yet. Yeah. Just to address the pressure thing, I guess that's another thing to talk about. We were all, not all, but many of us were forced to eat certain things when we were kids. You can't leave the table until you finish your vegetables, your Brussels sprouts. I see you hiding those Brussels sprouts. I mean, people would have standoffs with their parents.

Let's just also just make note that we made vegetables not very tasty in the 80s and 90s. Brussels sprouts were boiled, and that's it. No, they don't taste good that way. And so you might have this kind of feeling now, well, my favorite is that it for me, and I turned out OK, so I'm going to make my kid eat it. Sometimes it helps to put yourself in your child's shoes, sit down at the table and imagine somebody

shoving a fork of food in your mouth, and you actually feel full. Or you know you do not want to eat that food. Or maybe that food hurts your body, or it hurts your stomach. It gives you some sort of reaction that you can't describe because you're little. We don't know why kids reject foods, necessarily, especially when they're pre-verbal, or they don't have a language to describe what's happening to them. And when we force them, we might get them to eat it one time, but we run the risk of turning them off to that food forever. And a lot of you listening have that food in your brain that you will not eat because you were forced to eat it as a kid.

To me, it's just not worth it. I'm not going to risk my kid hating all these things forever just to get them to eat it once. And again, it feels so circular because if we say to ourselves, wait, like I'm a good parent, whether or not my kid tries the Brussels sprout. I'm a good parent whose kid doesn't love vegetables today. Then I don't think I feel as kind of, I don't know, triggered or I don't feel like them eating

that vegetable matters as much either. So being able to separate those two things, I think it just over and over. And then the other thing, I don't know if you think about this, but when I think about the idea of forcing a kid to eat something, or you have to eat this before you leave the table or before you get dessert, whatever you might say, beyond turning kids off to the food, which I think definitely happens, I think about the message it gets, which disturbs me. Which is other people know what you want in your body, better than you know what you want in your body. If I think about my daughter at like,

I don't know, a high school party or some college fraternity or wherever she is. And I think about a circuit that says, someone else knows what I like better than I know what I like. Someone else knows what I should take in, and like swallow from others better than I can trust my own gut on that. That really scares me. That really scares me. We're teaching kids not to listen to themselves. That's exactly right.

And the extensions, you can't teach that with a food and a vegetable and not think it doesn't extend to all different types of, you know, in some ways, higher stake environments. Yep. We want our kids to fully trust and know exactly what they need and want, and nobody else knows it better than them.

And you and I, as we started with, right, like we've lived that journey of not feeling like you can kind of trust your body's signals or being scared of them, feeling like someone else might know them better or someone else can define that. And now what a gift for a kid to not have to kind of regain that but to like just develop with that self-trust the whole time.

Well, that's what's so interesting about kids. And that's actually when I was trained in intuitive eating, you learned that children are born with these innate signals. Obviously, there's exceptions for kids with dealing with certain medical issues. For the most part, they are born knowing how much to eat. They show you, they slow down, you know,

they're sucking pattern at the bottle or breast. They turn their head away. It's very hard to force you to baby. Sometimes we do. Sometimes people do when they learn it's a learned behavior, but for the most part, when babies are allowed to self-regulate, they know how much to eat. And they know when to start and stop, they know when they're hungry. And we want to not, we're not trying to get those back from our case.

We're trying to preserve them. Yes. We're trying to preserve that innate sense that they are born with. 100%. I want to go through some sample scenarios. And one of the things I love about you is I love the way you also,

you're a very deep thinker and then translate that into a lot of concrete ideas. So we're going to do something that's probably hard for both of us. I'm gonna ask you a question and like the briefest possible answer to give parents something to walk away with. Okay, and a couple of scenarios. Are you ready?

You're on the hot cell. Okay. Ready? My kid refuses to eat dinner and then a half an hour before bed, you know, they're screaming that they're hungry and they need a snack. Two choices.

You can stick to your guns and say, this is what we're having. We had dinner already. You know that that's what we were having. Or you can do a planned bedtime snack if that's a regular thing. Something boring, not that exciting, banana, glass of milk kind of thing. But they know that they're going to have something to eat before bed. If you notice that the plan bedtime snack interferes with dinner eating and they're just waiting for the snack, then at that point you might decide to cut it out, but I think you know your kid best here.

Love it. My kid will only eat pouches. Ooh, this is a tough one. Judy would probably kill me for doing a very simple answer. Can they not eat something that's not pureed? Because that's actually a separate issue, right? If they don't have the ability to chew and swallow other types of foods, we're very worried about that. We would need to start talking to somebody about that. But if the only type of vegetable they'll eat is in pouch form, keep offering those foods in their full form.

Be mindful of how often you're offering the pouch. So maybe cut back to one or two a day instead of all day long. It's a process. Yeah. But if you feel like your child can only eat pureed foods or is only kind of sucking down foods, definitely talk to your doctor. Okay, what about dessert? My kid is dessert obsessed and is always asking for more treats and always saying at dinner how many more bites before dessert. Ooh, there's a lot going on with that because it sounds like dessert is used as a reward

for eating a certain amount of food. So a discussion, hey, we're no longer going to have dessert as a reward or prize. It's actually going to be part of the dinner. That's something you can try and know you have that in your book as well. Serve it alongside the dinner. It takes the appeal or the, I guess not even appeal, just a more special quality out of it. Yeah. So put a cookie on the plate. Put a cookie on the plate. And don't say I like it only eats the cookie. Then it's okay. Honey, this is what we're having for dinner. If you don't eat it, you don't have to. I want another cookie.

I need another cookie. This is what we're having right now. If you don't need it, you don't have to. I want another cookie, I need another cookie. This is what we're having right now. Do you want to add butter to your bread? Do you want me to put it on there for you? Or do you want to use my butter knife and do it yourself? One of Judy's most genius tricks techniques is getting them out of the, you know, they're upset, they're distressed, they want something.

And if you can redirect into something physical because they're so mobile oriented, especially when they're little, they're distressed, they want something. And if you can redirect into something physical, because they're so mobile oriented, especially when they're little, they want to move. They want to learn, they want to model what you're doing or mimic what you're doing, they want to do self. So if you can get them doing something that they're interested in at the table that involves the food, maybe it's not eating necessarily, but it's just doing, you know, your grown-up thing that you've been showing them. Suddenly, okay, okay, I can handle it. I want to do this now. I'm interested. An interaction with the food is what's going to get them down that road to eating it

eventually. It's so good. Okay, my last question. Do you know any amazing cookbooks for families in children? I mean, I have one in mind. Share, because really is amazing and I use it in my own house and I love it. And everyone here knows I don't say that about things that like I don't actually use my own home. So everyone needs to know about it. Thank you. I appreciate that. It's called feeding little and beyond. And it's a hundred different recipes for all ages, six months to 99 years. There's a lot of variety in there. So, you know, my whole thing with cookbooks is like, you're not gonna love every single recipe. But if you can find five to 10

that are just go-to standards for your family, the reason why we have so much varieties, everyone eats so differently. So we have dairy-free options, we have vegan options, we have your classic picky eater, you know, amazing ways to use chicken nuggets options. We have a whole, I can't even section all this fun stuff in there.

And our goal is for you to kind of get, it's almost like this renewal in the kitchen. You might have gotten stuck in your ways and everything feels stale and stagnant. And our goal is you open up this book and maybe look through it with your child and you look at the pictures and you're like, you know what? This is something I could try. And I love it for exactly that too. And you can like use it with your kid, especially if they're

struggling, you know, in a food power struggle or picky eating phase, you're saying, hey, one of the things we're going to do as a family is cook one of these recipes once a week. And, you know what, I figured you're eating two. I'd love to have your input. Let's pick something together. I'm gonna make it if you choose not to eat it. That is what's for dinner, but that we could go about this together. And now it's kind of the two of you,

the cookbook, it's a process. It's not me against you. We're kind of really in this together. I feel like you and I could probably talk about this for hours and days and days. I really, really agree. And so I wanna thank you for being here and tell everyone where to find more of you, you and Judy, where do they go next. Sure. So,

more on Instagram at FeedingLittle's and you can check out more at FeedingLittle's.com. Thanks for listening. To share a story or ask me a question, go to goodinside.com slash podcast. You could also write me at podcast at goodinside.com. Parenting is the hardest and most important job in the world. And parents deserve resources and support so they feel empowered, confident, and connected. I'm so excited to share good inside membership. The first platform that brings together content and experts you trust with a global community of like valued parents. It's totally game-changing. Good Inside with Dr. Becky is produced by Jesse Baker and Eric Newsom at Magnificent Noise.

Our production staff includes Sabrina Fahey, Julia Nat, and Kristen Muller. I would also like to thank Erica Belsky, Mary Panico, Ashley Valenzuela, and the rest of the good inside team. And one last thing before I let you go. Let's end by placing our hands on our hearts and reminding ourselves, even as I struggle and even as I have a hard time on the outside, I remain good inside. you