Good Inside with Dr. Becky - How to Quiet Your Kid's Anxious and Busy Brain

Episode Date: September 10, 2024

When our kids have anxiety, all we want as parents, is to reassure them and protect them. And while these instincts are lovely and well-intentioned, they don't actually help our kids manage their anxieties and fears. In today's conversation, Dr. Becky helps a parent understand and address their kid's intense anxiety. Get the Good Inside App by Dr. Becky: https://bit.ly/4doK9nFJoin Good Inside Membership: https://bit.ly/3W5iCRhFollow Dr. Becky on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drbeckyatgoodinsideSign up for our weekly email, Good Insider: https://www.goodinside.com/newsletterOrder Dr. Becky's book, Good Inside: A Guide to Becoming the Parent You Want to Be, at goodinside.com/book or wherever you order your books.For a full transcript of the episode, go to goodinside.com/podcastTo listen to Dr. Becky's TED Talk on repair visit https://www.ted.com/talks/becky_kennedy_the_single_most_important_parenting_strategyToday’s episode is brought to you by Airbnb: Before Dr. Becky was a parent, she thought planning a family vacation would be a breeze… until she realized how much has to come together for a trip with two adults and three kids. Then she discovered Airbnb Guest Favorites. No more combing through options, reviews, and features. Guest Favorites are the most loved homes on Airbnb according to other guests. And that peace of mind when preparing for a trip is huge. Using Guest Favorites couldn’t be easier: Just go to Airbnb, add your destination, tap the filters and hit the toggle for Guest Favorites. It’s that simple.

I'm Dr. Becky, and this is Good Inside. So we have a preschool age kiddo, and she is very bright. She's very verbally precocious, and physically she's a risk taker. And I wouldn't describe her as being generally anxious in most of her day-to-day life, but we have these moments of really intense anxiety that fall into a few different categories of anxiety, I'd say, where the kind of standard offering empathy and then trying to offer some support doesn't seem to get us to a place of helping her calm down when she gets into a spiral Mmm, you're like I'm doing the thing but then it's not doing the thing. It's a mess Yeah, exactly. We're trying the thing but she just gets locked into these spirals and

We don't know what the right thing to say is so I would love to know You know, I understand that we might not get a perfect outcome from saying the right thing to say is. So I would love to know, you know, I understand that we might not get a perfect outcome from saying the right thing immediately. But we might. But we might. But yeah, but you're going to have a direction and some clarity. All right, I want to come out and say this. I have some pretty controversial ideas about anxiety. I actually think so often we're told to do things when we're

anxious or kids are anxious that might like very short-term feel okay but then very immediately after in long term make us more anxious. So often when we have kids who are anxious we are told to reassure them, to remind them that everything's gonna be okay or we're told to I don them, to remind them that everything's going to be okay. Or we're told to, I don't know, kind of avoid certain situations that kind of quote flare their anxiety. Well, in today's episode I'm talking with a mom, Elizabeth, who shares about her daughter who is very deeply thinking and thinks big thoughts and scary thoughts and has a lot of fears

and anxiety. And together we talk about a really different approach that really resonates with her and I think it's going to resonate with you. We'll be back right after this. So recently, my family took a weekend trip out of the city and we booked a place on Airbnb. And I noticed something I wanted to share with you. The Airbnb we booked had bunk beds in one kid's bedroom, a canopy bed in another, cornhole set up in the backyard, and air hockey in the basement. These are things my kids don't have at home. And so do you know what happened? The house itself felt like a vacation. And I'm telling you this for a really important reason. Because my kids were so happy in this house with

all of this new stuff that my husband and I actually got time to talk to each other while sitting on a couch. And so we kind of had our own vacation. To save you time, I want to tell you exactly how I found this spot. Airbnb Guest Favorites. You can cut your to-do list in half by just hitting that filter button and then looking to see what other families loved about the place. It made it so easy to find the perfect spot. So if you're looking for a family vacation spot,

feel free to try this hack that just worked so successfully to me. I just don't want to keep this family vacation win a secret because it's so hard to have a vacation that actually feels good to everyone. I've been an Airbnb fan for a long time now, and it's really been the thing that helps my family vacations feel like a vacation. Well, at least some at the time, and that's really the best we're ever going to get. Let's actually jump in. I find it helpful to hear something specific. Like, give me one specific example, and it might be something that you know is also going to happen later today so we can actually, you know, you'll have something to use. But one specific example

where you're like, I'm trying it, it's not working, I don't know what to do. Can I give you two? Because we've got two different types of anxiety going on too. One is like this applied anxiety about everyday life, where, for example, we tried it before we found you in Good Inside, we tried many different things with our kid. And one time, maybe a year ago, we tried when she was refusing to put her shoes on, refusing to get dressed, to go out the door and run an errand with me, we tried, okay, well, you can stay with your dad and I'll go. You stay with your dad. Now she's really great about ever since then she's been great about running and putting

on her shoes. But it also comes with anytime she sees me go get my keys or get my water or get the diaper bag or whatever it is, put the baby in the car seat, she'll start screaming, oh no, don't leave without me, don't leave without me, oh, don't leave without me. And no matter how many times they say, I'm not leaving without you, I'm taking you to your swim lesson. She seems really, really freaked out that I'm going to leave without her. So that's one kind of anxiety that she has. Another type we've encountered more recently,

I think as she's getting older and her world is expanding, which is kind of metaphysical dread, I'd say. Wow. Yeah, I know say. Wow. Yeah, I know. Where we read a book about the gingerbread man that she loved. Again, a year ago, stuff gets buried in the subconscious, I guess. And then the other night at bedtime, she was, there had been a kid who was mean to her at the playground and had pushed her.

And all of a sudden, out of nowhere, she started saying, mommy, this kid is going to come eat me up and eat you up and eat up my little brother and eat up daddy and eat up grandma and grandpa. But really terrified that this kid who had been mean to her earlier on the playground was going to come eat us all up. And nothing that I said, no amount of, that sounds really scary, but daddy and I will always protect you. Yep.

No dent in the situation. And she's just like that it's not infiltrating in a helpful way. Okay. Will she spin on it? She'll keep saying it. And then she'll like, it gets bigger and bigger, kind of stays or it gets bigger? It goes from zero to 100, and then it stays at a hundred. Okay. And she's also like this about wants, but I feel like we're better at setting expectations

and holding boundaries and using empathy around wants. But the fear spirals are really tough. Yeah. First of all, thank you for sharing that. And so specifically and articulately, and good news is I actually really feel like I'm gonna be able to help you. So a couple things.

Your daughter sounds like a kid who has big thoughts. Yes. I mean, one of my kids is like this too, and one of the things I used to always say to him is, oh, it's so hard to be a kid with such a busy brain. Ooh, that's good. It's just kind of like the truth of it at a core. Like you're a kid, you're young, you have a very busy brain.

Like honestly, the brain action that's happening is so much more sophisticated than your emotional coping skills, right? It's like when young kids or some young kids who really start thinking about death, this son of mine was like that. And I remember one day, and it was before my second was born, so he was like not even three.

I just remember him looking at me out of nowhere. You could die at any second. I was like, oh, wow. Like I thought I'd have to have ice cream. Like what just happened to my conversation? Like, right? And I was like, oh my goodness, right? And so your daughter seems like a kid with a busy brain.

And I think that's really important to understand that to some degree, I actually have things to suggest I think you haven't done, which is good because at least they're new. But to some degree, when you have a young kid with limited emotion coping skills, who has a very busy brain with very big thoughts, there's like just a conundrum aspect. You're like, well, I better get through these years until their emotional coping, you know, gets a little better and you know, that's really all it is.

You know, and I remember when my son was doing this with death and me and my husband were like, how do we cope with those thoughts? And I was like, I don't know, we just like deny them? Like, is that the sophisticated tool we have? So it just means like, these are really hard things. So I just want you to know like you're not failing her.

Like she's a kid. Kids with busy brains also do amazing things. They have really deep thoughts. They like want to put things together, which is another theme. They want to put things together. Like they're really trying to understand things. You know, I remember when that same son said to my grandfather who was alive at the time, you're going to die any minute now.

Like, and he was like the sweetest kid, right? I just think he was like trying to figure it out. And he was theoretically right beyond the randomness of death that like he was very old, right? So you have a daughter who has big thoughts and you've obviously created an environment where she's allowed to have those thoughts, which is a kudos to you. Kids like that are trying to put it together, they're trying to figure out how the world works.

And that's actually going to be a clue to the intervention. Because when kids have a busy brain, and they're trying to think about things, and they're young for that stage, they're actually really not looking for us to make them feel better at all. They're actually really just wanting us to see that they're trying to put things together. So I'm gonna share a few lines. I just want you to react to them.

And they're probably gonna feel remarkably like unimpressive in their simplicity. I'm just gonna warn you. You're gonna be like, that's the best I got for this conversation. Okay, let's start with the gingerbread man, right? Okay. You're really thinking with the gingerbread man, right? Okay. You're really thinking about the gingerbread man. That's the second line. You're thinking about that kid.

And in another part of your brain, you're thinking about the gingerbread man. And you're like kind of connecting them. and that's what's happening now. Okay, I'm just gonna pause cause you can see like I told you, remarkably simple. Tell me your reaction to that. I love that because I think we just haven't done it. We skipped straight to and we'll protect you. Yeah, which I get that's such a lovely instinct.

Yeah, but you know, a different thing that worked for her from you that we tried previously was when she was having a hard time With her little brother. We tried just saying it's so hard being a big sister and that Did amazing things and so I think you're right. I think she just wants us to see what she's thinking about. Yeah, right? Like I'm thinking if it's me and I'm talking to my husband or you and I'll say there's some like work issues and I'm like, okay, so like my boss said this and I'm noticing this weird stuff over here. And if my husband was like, but everything's gonna be okay. I just be like, I don't know. Like you're trying. But if he's like, oh, so that's happening, and that's

happening, and you're trying to like figure it out. I mean, I'd be like, yes, and I love you so much. Like that's a yes, you know, it's just, it's kind of just like you're just mirroring and noticing how her brain is working while being completely agnostic to whether or not this is anything you have to fix. That resonates so much because anytime somebody tells me, oh, that'll be fine without understanding what's going on, it does really make me a little aggravated. Because it goes back to when we're like in a fear state or just, I don't know,

it's fear. Just again, I think a lot of this is this core temperament right now where she's this kid with this busy brain. She's like has this busyness all the time. And I do kind of have a core belief, like a first principles belief, it's not our struggles or our feelings or our difficult thoughts that give us problems as much as feeling alone in the struggle or the feeling or the difficult thought. And so ironically, when someone tries from the most loving place to help us feel like that thought is actually fine or safe, I ironically feel like more alone because it's like someone came near me and then left. You know, it's like, wait, but I'm not there.

Yeah. Where if aloneness is the issue, then actually just saying back to her almost so simply, you're thinking about the gingerbread man again. Oh, and this is going to connect, right, Elizabeth? You say to her, oh, you keep thinking about whether I'm going to leave at some point without saying goodbye. That's a really loud thought. And then it's going to be, it is at the time going to feel very unfulfilling because we want to say next something that feels more sophisticated than that. But like, that's it.

Now that's exactly what I want to say to her because I want her to know I see her. Yes. Makes me feel so sad to think that I've been not seeing her up until now. Well, and I really mean it. I'm a pretty straight shooter if I'd be like, yeah, you haven't been. I wouldn't say you haven't been seeing her. I think you're actually very attuned to the nervousness,

the anxiety, the deep thinking, all the things that we said. Then I really mean this. It is the best parental instinct to be like, I would like to help my kid. It's like, you know, you don't say to her like you're being ridiculous, go to your room and come back when you have a normal three year old thought. Like that'd be like, yeah, let's like work around that. We could upgrade that a little bit, you know?

But it really does go back to such a core thing for me, which are to me, so many of these thoughts I have around anxiety come from, I mean, they do, they come from research, they come from my PhD program. And I'm always like, why would a parent know this? I'm guessing people, that's not naturally how we talk to each other. It is interesting, your reaction, because I find this where, it sounds like, wait, I just know in my heart, that's what I would want? Yes, this is going to help.

You just know in my heart, like, that's what I would want. Like, yes, like, this is going to help. Like, you just know it, right? Which is kind of the win, even before she changes anything, which is the thing I, you know, want to give you is like something that like, oh, that feels different. But I would just watch for any blame because I think I ask parents to join me in moving from blame to just anger of like, wow, it's so messed up that we have kids and like, people are just like, go raise a kid and I'm going to teach you nothing but you know, deal with it. And so I think the fact that you're asking questions and trying so hard is like you are a top percentile

of humans out there and I would just I would want you to, you know, have that inside you. I know back to school season can be stressful and I want you to hear something very relieving for me. I know kids still have jitters on certain mornings or I don't want to go to school protests and there are still sometimes hard drop-offs or meltdowns or now there's homework battles and friendship drama. Look, the back to school season brings a whole set of obstacles for us as parents. I'm so excited to let you know about Good Inside's brand new back

to school toolkit and it's now available in the Good Inside app. Here's what you get with the toolkit because I want to make sure you know exactly what you're getting. You get five minute transition tips. These are delivered daily, designed for busy parents, and they're personalized to your kids age so you know they're developmentally appropriate. You get the good inside chatbot, which means when you have a question that you need answered now, like right now, you get the answer and you can implement it. It's kind of like having me on speed dial. You also get a comprehensive library. We've seen it all and we know how to help.

And I have a back to school workshop. So if you're the type of parent, you wanna watch it all at once, you wanna sit down and do it. It is chaptered into bite-sized pieces. You can listen to it on the go in the app. It's all there for you. My promise is that these tools will effortlessly integrate

into your everyday. My belief is that helping your kid thrive should compliment your lifestyle, not complicate it. And yes, if you have a deeply feeling kid or a neurodiverse kid, this is also for you. Follow the link in my show notes to learn more and download today. Do you think there's anything I can give her

Do you think there's anything I can give her so that it's not just coming from me, but it's something that she can use herself to build her own? Yeah. So I think the corollary to this, first of all, how we talk to our kids becomes the way they talk to themselves. So this is a really compelling coping skill for her, right? That's how kids learn coping skills. That's how they learn regulation. It's like they don't learn it in a book. I always want parents to know they don't turn 12 or 18

and it's not gifted to them with age. We learn regulation skills and regulation for anxiety and scary thoughts through our core relationships early on. So I just want you to know, even interacting with her this way, that is the biggest flex you could give her in terms of a coping skill. That's how she absorbs it. We absorb how people talk to us. That's how we talk to ourselves. And then ironically, that's the way we start to talk to other people. It's like all very cyclical, right? If though, you're like me, I'm a little impatient as a person, like, but how can I like double down a little more concretely? So I could see after you kind

of establish this way of talking, because you can also, I'll just continue it. Oh yeah, I am having that thought. Oh, those are big thoughts. You're a kid with a busy brain. It's so hard to have such big thoughts. Another version, that gingerbread man thought is like so loud. And then here, I'll model so you can play around with it. Is it so loud that you can't even hear something else inside of you that knows it's time to go to soccer? Is it so loud that it's hard to have fun while we're playing this board game? Is it so loud that you want to leave the park, even though I know you love the sandbox in this park so much? Is it like a 10 loud? That would be like so loud I can't hear anything else. Is it like an 8 loud? The numbers don't matter, but I'm kind of just playing around

with her getting to know herself because what is helpful when we're older is at some point, she's a kid, because she's probably still going to be a thoughtful kid, I would wish that on her. She's 16, she's 36, whatever it is, right? And she's going to think about something that scared her. And the fact that she's still thinking about if you leave her, by the way, Elizabeth, you did not do that to her. You're not like an abandoning person.

We all say to our kids, and that's a reasonable thing, I would still say that to my kids now, hey, you're having a hard time leaving. I got to go an abandoning person. We all say to our kids, and that's a reasonable thing, I would still say to my kids now, hey, you're having a hard time leaving. I got to go. Dad is here. And I'm not playing a game and I love you and I'll be back. I don't think that's abandonment at all. The fact that your kid's thinking about that is more of a sign of her, she's like a strong magnet for certain things and needs help understanding herself.

More of a sign than you gave her some abandonment for her. That is so not how I would see it. So you know. So I don't like you that. Okay. That is so not how I would see it. So you know. So I'm like, you know. Okay. That was not an inappropriate thing you have done. No. Oh my goodness.

No. Girl, you've got places to go. You know? That's okay. So let's say she's an adult and she's 16. And I don't know what happened, but something uncomfortable happened a little while ago. And she's like at school or maybe she's older and she's at a job and she's having this thought. That's like kind of a ruminative anxiety thought.

The best it gets is not, oh, there's the thought goodbye thought. No, the best it gets is, oh, I'm now a person who never thinks about scary thoughts again. That's so not probably who she is. The best it gets as an adult is you can say, oh, there's that thought again. Oh, I'm having a hard time focusing because there's that thought. Maybe if I want to go real internal family systems on this because I love internal family systems,

I'd say, hi, thought. I see you. You're a part of me. Not all of me. You happen to be very loud. So loud I'm having trouble having my work thoughts that I'm trying to be focused on this project, but I'm going to take a deep breath. I'm going to ask that thought to step back.

You're real, but you're not all of me and I'm going to continue with my work. All of that comes from actually the starting point we're talking about, which is just self-awareness around the thoughts we're having. Because as soon as you can say to yourself, I'm having that thought, you make the thought a passenger in your car instead of the driver of your car. And that is mental health in my mind. That is mental health. It's not, we all have crazy passengers in our cars who say all types of crazy things

to us all the time. You know, for me, the other day woke up at 2 a.m. and I was like, I have to do this and I should get up. And I'm like, well, I mean, I definitely day, I woke up at 2 a.m. and I was like, I have to do this and I should get up. And I'm like, well, I mean, I definitely shouldn't be getting up at 2 a.m. to like fold laundry and like finish emails. But, but I'm never not going to be that person because I just have that like kind of crazy productivity. You always need to be doing something. And I was able in bed to be like, oh, hello, anxiety. It's you again. I'm gonna ask you to go back to the back seat. I'm driving the car. Took me a little while to get back to bed.

But like it's unrealistic for me to think, you know, a year from now, like those types of thoughts are just never gonna come up. Maybe they don't come up in the middle of the night, but like that's okay. And these thoughts, even for your daughter, the gingerbread man, and the kid, and are you gonna leave me? The thoughts actually don't even have to be that scary when we learn how to relate to them. But when the goal is to neutralize them, we almost become hyper vigilant for them. We're like, oh, is that it? Right? And then we actually ironically give them more power and make

ourselves more scared of them. Am I making sense? 100%. I've just been thinking to myself, I want to start talking to myself like this. Yes, please do. And this is why, have you done the kids anxiety course that I have? No, not yet. Okay. Because I mean, I would say it might be more helpful to you. I mean, it's going to be helpful for everyone, but it's all the same stuff. How we teach our kids to relate to their anxiety.

It's all the same coping skills for ourselves. And I think that's why so many parents are like, this was so much bang for my buck. I have a system for my kid. And is it weird that that was helpful for my anxiety? I'm like, no, that's not weird at all. And that's like the beauty is like, let's kill two birds with one stone or whatever it is. But I think it will extend this

and it has a lot also on fears. But I think you're right. And the fact that you're having that aha moment is also a beautiful moment for the two of you. You can say to her, I sometimes have really loud thoughts too. Maybe they're just different. It's like, what would it be for you? Oh gosh, my to do list all the time.

Great. I get really uncomfortable when I think about things I have to do. And it kind of sounds like this in my mind. I have to go to the grocery store. Oh my goodness, I forgot to do soccer. Oh, her bathing suits aren't going to fit. I have to get more bathing suits. Oh my goodness, why is my house a mess? Oh, that's what it sounds like. How did you know my list? Right? I mean, that's what mine sounds like. I practice. You know how I would say to her, sometimes both of us have these loud, busy brains. Me and you are people with busy brains. We're not the only ones. And we can kind of practice just noticing and you can make it simple because she's young.

Oh, there's my busy brain doing its busy thing. You know, like it could be really light. And actually for you, the more humor there is, it's so amazing to take something that like takes hold of us and just add humor. Like there's my busy brain doing its busy thing. There you are. You know, sometimes people give it names. There's Heather. There she is, you know, busying herself up. And then as soon as you do that,

right, you're laughing. And now again, there's no way that thing's driving your car. Like, because you, Elizabeth, are the driver joking with busy brain girl. She would love that. She loves to laugh. And so anything that can be a laugh or humor is gonna really get through. And you can name it even with young kids. This is like my favorite. My son, when he was three, had a lot of... It's funny. Maybe both of my sons have had death worries. I thought it was just one, but I'm remembering this. And it was my other son. And he was worried about death at night. and he would just like worry about things at night when the body slows down. And so I think it's so easy in those situations. There's nothing to worry about. Or, you know, I've never left you, right? I'm home, I'm in the kitchen the whole time. And we try to neutralize the worry.

But the more we try to neutralize the worry, ironically, a kid's like, wow, my parents scared of this thought too. Like it's almost like the paradoxical effect. I guess this is a really bad thought, so I hope it doesn't come up. Oh no, it came up. Right? So it actually adds to the fear. So one of the things we did is I went over the steps to introduce him really kind of to Worry Boy.

Worry Boy comes out at night. And actually, and this is what's important, our parts are all trying to protect us. Like Worry Boy is trying to make you aware of things. Like, your busy brain doing her busy thing is actually really trying to help you. She's trying to tell you of all the things you want to do. She just gets, like, a little overzealous, you know? That's, like, the only thing. And I would say to your daughter, like, one of the things I love about you is you have a busy brain. You think amazing things, you notice things, you try to put things together. That is so cool. And everything that makes us cool at time can make things hard.

And we're just going to try to notice when it comes up because there's things we can practice together. And this is the type of thing, like when I heard the way my son could talk to his kind of worry boy at night and tell it it's a part of him and not all of him, I really mean this and I've told all my friends this. He is learning so many things in school. He's in an amazing school. I think that quality of him talking to a part, I think it's gonna be more predictive of his

quote true success in life than anything he would learn in school. It's just so important. I'm like, that's wired into you at age three? Oh my goodness, like I did, I gave myself a little pat on the back when I saw it. I was like, all right, I can do some very average parenting for the next week because I feel like that mattered. And now I feel like this is what you're gonna feel like. So tell me, let's like kind of bring this together, what things kind of feel ironically with the language loudest for you right now in terms of

like things that resonate or feel actionable? You know, what I really like about this is that it's actually not a complicated series of actions. It's just being able in the moment to slow myself down because it's hard to do that when a three-year-old is screaming top volume at you. But, you know, and you're right, my instinct is try to fix, try to comfort, try to fix. And I would just pause just before you, like, I want you to leave this with being like, and that makes sense that that's my instinct. What a loving instinct. Of course. You hear a kid screaming, you're you want to help. Of course.

But the way to help will be to remember that we just reflect and recognize together. And I think it'll be great after like, you'll play this again, like write down some of those things, like people have positive negative reactions to kind of quote scripts. And the reason I love scripts is because I think for me, if I was learning any new language and I really learned the foundations, but then I went into a room to use the language, I'd want like a starter. It's just like a door opening to be like, okay, right, right. I'm speaking Mandarin now. I'm speaking Spanish. And so the scripts aren't meant to like say, this is the way you have to say things. It's

just a representation of a foundational idea that's still kind of new to like say with your own mouth. But once you do, you're like in the rhythm a little bit. And so I know parents who write these down. I mean, they screenshot our scripts, right? Whatever works because it's helpful to just give yourself something concrete. Because once you hear yourself say, oh, wow, like there's that busy brain again, or wow, you're really thinking about that, that's a really loud thought.

I know the file in your brain that contains that is going to open with all the other things, but it's just about getting there. Can I ask you if I'm applying it right about there's another situation where she gets very anxious when we have these family friends and they have a little kid who loves to come over. Just a little kid, you know, no intent yet, but whatever she's playing with, come over and grab it, take it away. And then she's now when we say we're going to go play with this family, she gets very

anxious. This kid's going to come take my toy. This kid's going to come take my toys. So would it be, oh boy, that is a very loud thought in your busy brain. I think yes and you're really thinking about what's going to happen when Alexa comes here. My guess is you're picturing her going around like all your toys and like, oh, mine, mine, mine, right? And then you can explore that. Like which ones are you worried she's gonna take? Right? So you're kind of like getting into

the thought. So I think you can label as loud. I think there, especially if you have time in advance, you might be like, wow, you're really thinking about, you're actually just like saying it back to her. Alexa is gonna take all my toys. If you add the sentence, you're really thinking about, and then just say what she said. Yeah. You're really thinking about how Alexa might take all your toys. Tell me more about that. What would she take? What would happen?

Oh, would she give them back? Now the part of this we probably won't get have time to get into, but I think is a really important corollary, but I'll just mark it because I like to let parents know also like the next stage for them is the boundary part. Because it's also your job, let's say when Alexa comes over, sure, maybe in advance with your daughter, you're like, Hey, are there one or two toys that are special? We put them away, yada yada, fine.

Right. But another thing that makes kids feel more fearful if their parents kind of like collude in it, and then they're almost like, yeah, Alexa, you can't have that. Alexa, you can't have that. Alexa, you can't have that because it makes my daughter really upset. We actually want her to actually be like, wait, like kids can share my toys and like, my world doesn't blow up and it's going to be okay, which means understanding in advance, which is what we're doing. And then a series of your setting boundaries. And to be clear,

I always like to say when you set those boundaries, you don't get a high five from your kid. They're not like, this is what I needed. Thank you. No, they whine and they tantrum, but it's a really important part of the process because again, it's a way of you're showing her, I'm not scared of the things you're scared of. And so I am literally standing next to you making sure Alexa does take that toy because you can't hoard all the toys when another kid comes over. And right. I'm just letting that happen. Because if I can tolerate that, and I know Alexa isn't then going to destroy them all with Sharpie, I am actually allowing you to experience the thing with a different outcome than you were worried about. And I think with

families I've worked with where there's kids that have a lot of anxiety, this is a big part of it. Don't fix it. Name it, solve it, explore it, be less afraid of it than they are. The other side of it that I've seen too many parents be almost advised to the opposite is so important to not collude in the anxious reality. And that involves being a really sturdy leader and gearing yourself up for these like major kind of holding of boundaries, knowing your kid is going to be upset and even seeing that as like a win because it's on the road to your kid becoming less anxious and fearful. I'm really glad you said that because without the boundary piece, I was already thinking, I wonder what we can do. I wonder, you know, how do we make this so that she's okay when some of the toys are out?

That's right. And I'm going to change that to, she might not be okay. How do I set her up in a way that's going to really help her out down the road? Of course, once in a while, we're like tired. We're like, fine, Alexa can't play with any of your toys. Sorry, Alexa, sit in the corner. Deal. Okay. But more while, we're like tired. We're like, fine, Alexa can't play with any of your toys. Sorry, Alexa, sit in the corner. Like, deal. Okay. But more often, or at least some percentage of the time, like we actually have to not say, how

can I do this in a way my kid's not going to be upset? That question breeds anxiety in kids because kids are like, my parents are optimizing for me to kind of be in a bubble and not being upset. I guess my feelings and experiences are actually as scary as I worried they are. Versus, Alexa's gonna come over, let me tell you what we're gonna do, here's how many toys I'll let you put away. If Alexa takes a toy and you have a hard time, here's what I'm gonna do. You're almost like embracing the fact that she's gonna be upset to her. Which is your way of reflecting to her.

I really see you as more capable of getting through this than you see yourself right now. And I always think seeing our kids as more capable as they're feeling in the moment is like one of the biggest acts of love because that's what helps them develop that identity. That's gold. I think I just need to buckle up and we'll get through the difficult, challenging process, but we'll get to the other side. And the piece that was missing was really helping her accept that it's okay to have that feeling.

Yes. It's okay to have that feeling. And we're not going to go towards fixing it. We're going to say it's there. It's rough. And it might feel tough when this happens. That's right. And it might not be that immediate shift in your kid, usually isn't. But I think that that's the framework of like sturdy leadership, of sturdy piloting that our anxious kids like

really need from us. So something I shared with this mom, Elizabeth, that I wanted to share with you, but I actually want to amend it, because I wish I kind of said something different, is I have so much faith that my kid's anxiety approach is actually going to feel completely new for you, probably because the ideas today did, but there's so many other ways in which those new concepts come to life and practical strategies. But the thing I didn't tell her, and I want to make sure to tell you, is now in our app, you don't even have to take the workshop.

Because if your parent says, oh, it sounds good, but I just don't have time, there's no way, I'm not sitting down, that's the whole point of our app. We've taken our core ideas, like kids' anxiety approach, and we've broken it down. You get five-minute tips in a day. They're actually cards you can just swipe through. So if you're somewhere where you can't listen, no big deal at all. And we know that these give you the same impact as that longer workshop. Plus they're personalized for your kid's age. So you'll have no doubt that they're

developmentally appropriate. All of that is available in the link in the show notes or through goodinside.com and I just wanted to make sure to get that in so you know where you can start that. Thank you for listening. To share a story or ask me a question, go to goodinside.com slash podcast, or you could write me at podcast at goodinside.com. Good Inside with Dr. Becky is produced by Jesse Baker and Eric Newsom at Magnificent Noise. Our production staff includes Sabrina Farhi, Julia Knapp, and Kristen Muller.

I would also like to thank Erica Belsky, Mary Panico, Brooke Zant, and the rest of the Good Inside team. And one last thing before I let you go. Let's end by placing our hands on our hearts and reminding ourselves, even as I struggle and even as I have a hard time on the outside, I remain good inside. Today's episode is in partnership with Airbnb.