Good Inside with Dr. Becky - How to Talk to Kids About Money

Episode Date: July 25, 2023

Talking about money is hard. It's hard to talk about with our partners and friends so of course, it makes sense that it would also be hard to talk about with our kids. This week, Dr. Becky talks to a mom about how to talk to kids about money but also about where kids find their self-worth and how we de-couple the two.Our podcast feed has gotten a little unruly, so in an effort to curate it for you, we are picking a few of our must listen episodes from the back catalog for you to enjoy. We will continue to rotate these episodes as the season unfolds. And as always, for more parenting scripts, resources, and full access to the entire podcast catalog visit goodinside.comJoin Good Inside Membership: bit.ly/3rFdVStFollow Dr. Becky on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drbeckyatgoodinsideSign up for our weekly email, Good Insider: https://www.goodinside.com/newsletterOrder Dr. Becky's book, Good Inside: A Guide to Becoming the Parent You Want to Be, at goodinside.com/book or wherever you order your books.For a full transcript of the episode, go to goodinside.com/podcastToday’s episode is brought to you by SEED: Dr. Becky is someone who likes to say it how she sees it. And poop problems are something she sees in her own home and in so many family homes. Poop resistance, poop anxiety, poop pressure, poop withholding, poop tears, poop that’s too hard. So if poop can be a problem, what’s a possible solution? Adding in Seed’s PDS-08 — the clinically studied 2-in-1 daily probiotic and prebiotic that helps your kiddo …“go”. As a clinical psychologist, Dr. Becky loves science. She loves evidence. Seed is a true science company and in a recent clinical trial, children experiencing intermittent constipation taking Seed’s PDS-08 saw significant improvement in healthier, more frequent bowel movements. With 9 probiotic strains and a meaningful dose of prebiotic fiber, you can support your child’s overall health with PDS-08 and improve their poops! It's a win-win. Use code GOODINSIDE for 20% off your first month of Seed's PDS-08 Daily Synbiotic plus Free Shipping.

I'm Dr. Becky and this is good inside. So my name is Neha. I'm the mother to an incredibly curious and vivacious six-year-old. One of the things that I persistently felt that we're still very lagging behind in terms of tools is building a conscious awareness and relationship to money for children. Money. This is one of the hardest topics to talk about with other adults. And so it makes sense that it's also really tricky to talk about with our kids. How do we help our kids develop a sense of money, an appreciation of it, and values around what it means about us, and what it doesn't.

And what I mean by that is that financial security and what money represents as a means of not just productivity and convenience, but that one step beyond where the ability to provide for yourself and your loved ones is such an essential part of feeling as if you are secure and you have a sense of safety and well-being. Coming up, we'll talk about how we decouple money from self-worth, more after this.

more after this. If you're looking for information about how to do allowance and whether or not to link allowance with chores and how to really help your kid develop a sense of money. In this way, in your home, I've got you covered. I have a brand new, good inside guide to allowance And it comes with a handout. You can go through with your kid. It's available in the member library. So just go to goodinside.com and after you log in, search allowance. And it'll be the first thing that comes up. Tell me a little bit first about your background with respect to money, wealth, family. It can be important to people for lots of reasons, but tell me, like, my guess is some of why it's on your mind probably relates to some of your history, too. So I'm an immigrant.

I came to this country when I was just shy of nine, and I came from India. My family did not reflect what most of India looked like then or now. I didn't know my dad. He was alive for the first many years of my life. I just, he wasn't around. And my mom was the sole red winner and she barked overseas. She was in marketing health care. So my grandma was, was my parent. In what is the trueest sense for many folks who come as immigrants, there was a heavy focus on the importance of why are we doing this really disruptive thing, which is uprooting this child. And you know, there was a very big focus on opportunities. The opportunity this provides for you, for you to build a life and the family, there was almost no

preparation and readiness to what will be different, not just from a day to day perspective. From the time that I was living just with my grandmother to when I came to live here with my mom, who's a single parent for a long time, there was never a time where I don't remember money, money being a topic of a charged anxiousness. I think in hindsight, I feel like we always had enough to sustain the needs and some of the wants of life. I think that it took me a very long time to understand that we had enough. That we objectively, even with variance of interpretation, we had enough. I think why it took so long was that the attitudes and anxieties around we won't have enough and what does it mean to be the provider and how much pressure that brings was like a

constant soundtrack for me growing up. There was a lot of explicit financial anxiety. So maybe the reality day-to was day to day, we now have a little bit of a trek record of enoughness and day to day, there's a lot of anxiety in the family of not having enough. Is that right? Both of those things were true. Right.

For me, it coalesced more intensely because there was a lot of chaos and what was trauma-ducing for me in that childhood to begin with. Obviously, even before I realized as an adult, what objectively, financially stable looks like and feels like, I know that this topic is very charged. It's a source of constant stress for my mom and for the family. But even in terms of when things are going well, it's a source of constant stress for my mom and for the family. But even in terms of when things are going well,

it's a source of stress because there is no clarity of framework around why are we doing? Like what does that look like for us? What does good enough look like? What does good enough look like for money? What does money mean for us? What does it stand for? What are the goals?

And so let's bring this back to you when you're child and the thing on your mind today. What would your child be saying to a friend? 10, 20 years from now? Or how would your child be living their life? They'd be like, wow, I crushed it from the kind of managing messages around money perspective. So like, let's start with the outcome

and we'll work back. I think having a clearly defined idea of of what she believes she's most passionate or intuned to doing. Like having a very clear sense of, oh, this is who I am. I know my purpose in life, but having a very clear sense of, I know what gets me excited. I know where I turn to in life to feel my most powerful or my most, yes, this feels like home. So at least having a very clear sense of, I know what my healthy boundaries for feeling whole are. And I know sort of some of the flags that I need to, you know, be in tune to saying like, hey, that doesn't align with who I know I am.

You know what's interesting is we're talking, and it's happening right now, but it was happening for a little bit too. As I keep thinking, are we talking about money? Or are we talking about your child feeling a sense of inner worth, inner self trust, knowing themselves? I keep almost forgetting that the topic that you wanted to focus on was money, which I

think matters because I think it's hard to actually disentangle the two. So much of our relationship with money relates to what are we purchasing? How are we spending money on the outside? Or maybe how much do we feel like we need to accumulate in our bank account, maybe both? And what does that represent in terms of our value, feeling good enough? So much, I think, money and how we spend money also relates to, where do I get excitement? Where do I get joy? Do I only get it outside me? Do I also find it inside of me? So as you're talking about your daughter, I do feel like we're not just talking about money. We're talking about you talking about a kid who in 20 years, like you feel like

concept boundaries feels good about themselves, knows who they are, knows what lights them up inside. But I think that that matters because I actually, I think this is why it's hard to find really deep things about kind of money and how we talk about money with kids because we're not really talking about how we talk about money. We're talking about where they find their worth, when they feel good enough, how they find pleasure, what feels like enough, which are such more general concepts than just talking to kids about money. I couldn't agree with more. I don't think there's any way to extricate a sense of worthiness from a sense of having

enough of this resource. You have people that really objectively on paper will be wealthy and have all this collection of accolades. And yet there isn't a connection with, yeah, this doesn't feel, it still doesn't feel like enough, so what is enough? So is that one of the things you're hoping for for your daughter? Like I hope she can kind of separate how much money she has or makes from her internal worth?

Yes, absolutely. Here's something I think we can make actionable here because when I hear a parent say that, I think, well, again, I think we can maybe do one more level of generalization before we even think about a specific intervention because when I think I want my kid to separate their worth from money, I'm like, well, how do I put that into practice? I guess I could say to them, no matter how much money you make, you're worth more than that, but like, okay, I guess I would be one way,

but I don't think that's really going to like resonate deeply. Because again, worth, I hear, we're not really talking about money. So I think what we're also saying is I want my kid to be able to have a relatively stable sense of who they are and their own value and separate that from any kind of external accomplishment or number. I want them to separate when I think about this a lot, actually, it's my conceptualization around confidence is I want them to generate confidence and worth from gazing in at themselves confidence and worth from gazing in at themselves rather than gazing out at something kind of observable. Is that in line with what you're saying?

Absolutely. A lot of immigrants and children and immigrants and folks who have come from a background have come from, right, which is a lot of struggle. It wasn't too hard for you to learn what you're worth independent of money because it was no money. From my child, that dearth doesn't exist, right? So how do I teach you about self-worth independent of what you have and what you've accumulated or, you know, accolades? And then how do I teach you that you are the beneficiary of so much privilege that you haven't earned doesn't reflect the reality of who you are because if it disappears tomorrow that person still has that self-worth. It's also not an indicator or a character flaw of what other

folks you know other people are worth who don't have the privileges that you're surrounded by. You know I'm someone who likes to say it how I see it. Well, here's something I see. In my own home and in so many family homes. Poop problems. What kind of problems? Poop resistance.

Poop anxiety. Poop pressure. Poop with holding. Poop tears. Poop resistance, poop anxiety, poop pressure, poop withholding, poop tears, poop that's too hard. I mean, I could go on and on, but I know that millions of children struggle with this, so I'm thinking you get it from experience. So if poop can be a problem, what is a possible solution?

Well, adding in seeds, PDS-08, the clinically studied two-in-one daily probiotic and prebiotic that helps your kid go. As a clinical psychologist, I love science. I love evidence, and seed is a true science company. They're not messing around here. In a recent clinical trial, children experiencing intermittent constipation, taking seeds PDS-08, saw significant improvement in healthier,

more frequent bowel movements. With nine probiotic strains and a meaningful dose of prebiotic fiber, you can support your child's overall health with PDS-08 and improve their poops. What a win-win, right? Use code GoodInside for 20% off your first month of seeds PDSO8 daily symbiotic plus free shipping. So I think there's a couple like really actionable things to talk about here. I always think about questions as paths. I don't know, like I like the visual of a question you ask is like a path you walk down with someone. And so like you're already walking down that path with your daughter by asking those questions.

So let's get more specific now. How do I help my child build confidence and worth inside out and not outside in? Because if they build confidence inside out by gazing in, by having a sense of all the beautiful stuff that lives in them, that always has, and they're just getting to know it. Then they can go into the world, and they might want to have, quote, nice expensive things, but that won't be the barometer for who they are, right? They're going to pursue whatever job they want to pursue, high paying, less high paying,

because they're pursuing something that lights them up inside, right? It's like more in alignment with that value. So I think there's a lot of moments where we really do have a lot of opportunity with kids to build this inside out self-worth. One of those moments is literally what we comment on or notice about our kids. Almost always, I think when we're about to comment on something in our kids, we have an opportunity to either comment on something that I call this my sophisticated term outside stuff or inside stuff.

Everyone listening, do I think we have to police our thoughts all the time and be so precious? No. All of us say to our kids, good job. All of us say sometimes you're so smart. All of us say, I'm obsessed with your drawing. You're the best artist ever. You've gotten a test. It's fine. It, oh, you've gotten a on this test. It's fine. It's fine, it's fine, it's fine.

And sometimes we can pause and comment on quote, inside stuff. And to me, the best way to explain what that means is actually just to contrast it with a comment about outside stuff. So my daughter brings me a painting, which she does often, outside stuff. This is the most amazing painting.

I'm literally seeing the thing. Inside stuff is seeing the kit. While you were working on that for so long. Another outside stuff, the thing. While look at that rainbow, right, or like this is the most beautiful rainbow you've ever painted inside. How did you think to paint that? To me, inside stuff questions, even about art, it shows my kid. I am interested in the person inside who generated the thing more than I'm interested in the explicit value of the thing. Maybe one more example,

and then we'll jump into it with your daughter. This comes up a lot I get asked. I'm like, okay, I wanna build this inside out conference. My child is obsessed with clothing, and like getting dressed, how do I do that? They're like so obsessed with clothing. Okay, so my daughter comes to me, or let's say it's my son, he's super into clothing,

and he's like, do I look so cute? I could say, oh my goodness, you're so pretty. Oh my God, you're so beautiful. Oh my goodness, you're so handsome. Again, am I you're so beautiful. Oh my goodness, you're so handsome. Again, am I messing up my kid? No, do you have to never say those things? No, if once in a while, instead you say, how did you put that outfit together?

Or, well, you seem to feel pretty good in that outfit. I'm curious what makes you feel good about having that on. Oh, mom, you're being so annoying. Just tell me if you like it. Well, I mean, the truth is sweetie, how I feel about your outfit is so much less important than the reasons you have for feeling good in your outfit. One of my favorite lines for this is,

how something feels to you is always more important than how it looks to others. But all of these little moments, and to me, I say one of these things to my kids once a week, I really meant it. I'm like, the best parent in the world, I said one of them, like crushed it. You know, I'm not saying this stuff all the time.

If I did my kids, it'd be like, why are you saying such weird things all the time? Here and there, because what a kid does is they come to you, looking for approval of something external to them for worth and they get something totally different. They get a reason to pause and look in because what's insinuated to them is there something inside you that has worth. There's something inherent that is worthy.

And I see that. It's like a complete reversal. I'm curious, what if any of that resonates? All of it resonates. What I hear you saying is that it doesn't matter because how you felt during that process and why you were attracted to that is more important than how it turns out because it provides you

a more meaningful context. That's exactly right because you might have a kid who loves the fanciest designer bags. I'm making this. There's no morality to liking nice stuff or not liking expensive stuff. It is what it is. But if I think about one of my kids loving that or something again, they really do value picking super expensive vacations, whatever it is, I want them to be able to tell me,

oh, I feel like the best version of myself and I'm like tearing that. Like I just love the colors and I love this and I love the creativity and how I could put this together with this. Like cool, like you found yourself in this thing where you have to spend money. That's very different than the anxiety spiral. If I can't have the thing that my friend has, I am not worthy and I am not part of it and I'm not belonging, right?

That is using a thing to define internal worth. Someone can like expensive things and still be a good person with confidence. Someone can be a good person with confidence and have no interest at all in those expensive things, right? But I think again, we're talking about that internal process and every time with our kids, like you said, we see the person inside over the action or behavior or performance that manifested. We really set our kid up to do all the things you were talking about separate

for money. Just feel pretty good about themselves, to feel pretty stable in the world, to feel like they have value. And it sounds like you buy into this, but I just want to share one thing that, because I think it's easy. Okay, it's easy for parents to be like, okay, wait, my kid's going to show me a painting. And instead of saying, that's beautiful, I'm going to say, how did you think to paint that? And that's going to make them feel better. Like, Dr. Becky, I don't know, we might be like off your rocker on this one, okay? I just want to present the idea that for all of us, it actually tends to feel better for someone to express interest in us over,

give praise to an external product. Let's say I was telling my friend about some new project I was doing at work. And I described it, okay, I was doing this, you know, presentation about a new strategy for our company. And friend said, great job. That's amazing. I'm not trying to say that feels bad. But let's say a different friend. I said the same story.

And they said, wait, how did you think to do that campaign? Okay. And then, oh, that's interesting. And then you figured how to do that. Okay. And how did you think to do that? Oh, tell me more. Even if that second friend never says to me, Becky, good job. I really do believe that I feel better.

I feel so valuable. Like my friend was asking me all these questions about my internal process, insinuating that the things inside me are actually very valuable and worthy of getting to know. So for everyone who might worry, oh, then my kid's not going to think that I think it's great. I think what will be really surprising is watching your kid truly light up. When you essentially say to them by asking more questions, I see the worth inside of you

as opposed to something worthy you produced. I think that's such a profound advice because I can't imagine that empathy and showing empathy in relationships can begin without curiosity, right? But I think what I'm hearing you say is that in order to really inject empathy into a relationship with someone which again you model for them in the hopes that they internalize and model for themselves, right?

So in order for them to feel that we're showing up with empathy, we really can't display that in a meaningful way that feels palpable to them without beginning with curiosity about how did you arrive to this? Yes. You know, I think as parents of young kids, we're often in firefighting mode. Like what's the latest fire? Like my kids are being a tantrum, my kid doesn't sleep, and I get it. Like that mode, if you have a fire in your house, like you've got a firefight, it's survival. And yet, if we can find little moments for what I call like fireproofing mode, right? Like we really then start to help our kid be the type of adult that we know they deserve to be.

We help them build confidence and resilience and this internal self-worth. I think I've heard you describe that as emotional inoculation in a previous episode. Yes. That's exactly what I think of because there will be times where there are financial stressors. You may decide to go to grad school. You may have what feels like a daunting amount of debt, right? And then you begin questioning everything, right? Because it's not about money But it's about how is this making me feel about what I'm worth and then the self-doubt. That's exactly right

I'm a kid who I'm going to college and I have a ton of debt and I learned my friend Doesn't and to be able to say, okay, differences and no morality there, no better or worse, to be able to separate money, to be able to separate debt from worth and value is so protective of our mental health. And so on both ends, it's true. I'm a kid who likes expensive things. I'm a kid who has a lot of debt. I'm a kid who has never traveled, has never been on a plane. I'm a kid who likes expensive things. I'm a kid who has a lot of debt. I'm a kid who has never traveled. It's never been on a plane. I'm a kid who's been on a lot of planes.

No matter where you are in the spectrum, to be able to internally have a system to separate finances from self-worth and confidence, you're right, that I think is what we all want for our kids. Well, you are incredibly thoughtful and I mean it. Like I hope that you really notice like the questions you ask and that you ask yourself and the questions

that clearly are guiding your parenting. To me, like the way we parent is not about, it's not like really about the answers we have. It's about like the questions we ask. And so you seem to have a pretty good handle on a lot of big questions. So thank you for letting me travel with you and look forward to talking with you soon. Thanks for listening. To share a story or ask me a question, go to goodinside.com slash podcast. You could also write me at podcastatgoodinside.com.

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Noise. Our production staff includes Sabrina Farhi, Julia Nat, and Kristen Muller. I would also like to thank Erica Belsky, Mary Panico, and the rest of the Good Inside Team. And one last thing before I let you go. Let's end by placing our hands on our hearts and reminding ourselves. Even as I struggle, and even as I have a hard time on the outside, I remain good inside. you