Good Inside with Dr. Becky - Motherhood: A Hero's Journey

Episode Date: December 19, 2023

We want to close out the year with some truth-telling from a very funny mom, author, and comedian, Jessi Klein. This week, she joins Dr. Becky to talk about how this s**t is hard. Jessi's book I'll Show Myself Out: Essays on Midlife and Motherhood is a bedside table must for a brand new parent and a not-so-new-to-this parent. Listen in and fill in this sentence for yourself, "I am a good parent who _______." Join Good Inside Membership: https://bit.ly/3RucNuzFollow Dr. Becky on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drbeckyatgoodinsideSign up for our weekly email, Good Insider: https://www.goodinside.com/newsletterOrder Dr. Becky's book, Good Inside: A Guide to Becoming the Parent You Want to Be, at goodinside.com/book or wherever you order your books.For a full transcript of the episode, go to goodinside.com/podcastTo listen to Dr. Becky's TED Talk on repair visit https://www.ted.com/talks/becky_kennedy_the_single_most_important_parenting_strategyToday’s episode is brought to you by Ritual: Parents are busy. And even though we know we should prioritize ourselves, sometimes we’re the last thing on our list. Dr. Becky loves anything that makes caring for her family – and herself – easier… including a multivitamin she can trust. Enter Ritual and their “Essential For Women” multivitamin. It fills your nutrient gap with 9 key nutrients — like vitamin D and omega-3s — in just two daily pills. And Ritual delivers to your doorstep every month. It’s clinically backed and has clean, high-quality ingredients. Ritual is transparent – what’s on the label is what’s in it. And you know where everything came from. You can get started with 40% off your first month. Just visit Ritual.com/GoodInside and your 40% discount will automatically be applied to your order. Today’s episode is brought to you by KiwiCo: We’re approaching the holidays and gift-giving is one more thing on parents’ overwhelming holiday to-do list. But it's time to let go of some of your tasks and make room for fun. And KiwiCo can help - because it is the gift that truly keeps on giving. Why? KiwiCo will send your kid a fun project every month - perfect for cold weekend days when you’re not sure how to pass the time! Plus, KiwiCo crates are designed to build life-long skills through fun hands-on projects - so as your kid is creating, they’re also building resilience, confidence, and self-trust. Unwrap hands-on fun with KiwiCo. Get your first month FREE on ANY crate line at kiwico.com/drbecky.

I'm Dr. Becky, and this is Good Inside. Jesse Klein is a writer, producer, stand up, and the author of the fantastic book I'll show myself out. Essay's on Midlife and Motherhood. Not only is it hilarious, it's also very poignant, and I think many moms who read it will feel very seen. Motherhood is like a hero's journey. We think about the stories of like adventures, you know, and like saving private Ryan and war stories

and like someone is saving lives. And the thing about being the mother of, or the parent of a very small child is 24 hours a day, you have to be sort of passively saving their life, right? You're like, I have to make sure 24 hours a day you don't eat a penny and choke to death on a penny. And so my vigilance is the same as if I was in a life and death situation, but none of my surroundings look like what I've been taught a life or death situation. Adventure, heroic moment looks like. I've just been taught that this all looks boring to people.

Jesse and I are about to get real about motherhood. You don't want to miss it. We'll be right back. We're busy parents, and even though we know we should prioritize ourselves, sometimes we're the last thing on our list. I get it. I love anything that makes caring for my family and myself easier, including a multivitamin I can trust. Enter ritual.

They're essential for women vitamin. Amazing. I'm filling my nutrient gap with nine key nutrients like vitamin D and omega-3s and just two daily pills. And ritual delivers to my doorstep every month. So easy. I also trust it, not just because it's clinically backed, but because it has clean, high quality ingredients.

Ritual is transparent. What's on the label is what's in it. And you know where everything came from. We deserve this. You deserve this. And you can get started with 40% of your first month. Just visit ritual.com slash good inside and your 40% discount will automatically be applied to your order. Even that part is easy. So if you're like me, you can often feel really overwhelmed during holiday season. I mean, there's so much to do for so many people, so much to organize, so much to cook, so many presents to buy, and often we're the last person on our list. And then we end holiday season. And we say, why was I so reactive?

Why didn't I enjoy it? Why didn't I show up as the parent I want to be? I have some thoughts about this. I think this holiday season is the time to do something completely cycle breaking. It's putting ourselves at the top of the list. Because I really believe there's nothing our kids want more than a grounded, confident, calm, sturdy parent. I set up good inside membership with exactly this in mind. Of course,

there's every resource you need for every single parenting problem. There's also every resource you need for you, the parent behind the parenting. It's all available at goodinside.'m going to start by reading something you wrote. Becoming a mother alters every inch of your body, your routine, your soul, your heart. There's so many different questions to that. But yeah, tell me where your mind goes. And those are your words. So where do you go next? I mean, you know, that was just speaking from my experience, the kind of full body truth of that. My son is eight years old now, he just turned eight. And I wouldn't change a word of how that feels. It still feels that way to be,

it feels like fully, you have to kind of butterfly out of what you were. I can't speak for other people, but I just feel like I kind of have had to become mostly a different kind of person than what I was. But no one says that, right? Like you're pregnant and they're like, the baby, and do you have swaddles and what kind of bottle are you using?

Are you breastfeeding or your bottle feeding? Where are you giving birth? What are you going to name the baby? Right? Like no one says, Hey, just a little FYI becoming a mother altars every inch of your body. You're a teen. You're still your heart. Just talk that out. Just talk that away. You might, you might need it. It'll normalize. There's a lot of focus. I just remember, yeah, when I was pregnant, there's so many lists, right? Like, there's a lot of passing along of the lists of things that you need for the baby.

There's your registry. If you're doing one of those, there's like what to pack for the hospital and it just like lists and lists and lists, but this big sort of explosive truth about what's going to happen to your like heart and soul as it regards yourself feels very unaddressed. I think that was a lot of what really made me want to write this book. Yeah, you know, one of the things I always hold dear is like true throughout every area of my life is we can't change the hard.

We can change the alone and being surprised by a truth or by an experience. There's such an aloneness when you're surprised right like why don't anyone tell me this and I'm feeling this way and no one talks about this and then we do this thing where it's like well well, we must be the only person who has that thing where your book, and I want you to kind of speak about this, and you're sharing of your experiences, it doesn't change the heart, but it definitely will change the alone for anyone who reads it. That was my hope, and it's been really nice to get a I did get a lot of feedback from mostly mothers, a few dads. But a lot of women wrote to me on Instagram and just said, the phrase that kept coming up over and over again was, I feel seen. I feel less alone. And that's the greatest gift as a writer I could ever receive. And really was, yeah, I just didn't feel like there was a book that was really about the mother's emotional journey as a full human being outside, like after having a baby.

And it feels kind of built into the system for a million reasons that I bet you could probably articulate better than I could about just why so many kind of core, hard, dark truths about being a mother are like unspoken and unshared. When did it hit you in the face? Was it like labor? Was it a week after? Was it six months in? You know, like when you're like, wow, everything has changed. This is so hard.

I feel shook kind of to the core. Yeah, like when was the first moment? I think really it was, I mean, even just being in the hospital, like I wrote a chapter called the Underwear Sandwich, where, you know, the labor nurse God bless them all, like comes into my room in the middle of the night is like, okay, I'm going to show you how to make an underwear sandwich. I was like, what are you talking about? And I didn't know that you're going to be bleeding.

And I knew about that, but I didn't know about the kind of level of equipment. And in singing, I have to make an underwear sandwich with your witch hazel pads in your mesh underwear and an ice pack and then squirty bottle and all of these things and how hard it is when you just don't want to move but you're in so much pain. So the underwear sandwich moment was sort of like a kind of a almost comedic one but then I would say yeah just from the moment I got home that whole first week realizing that breastfeeding was essentially like in around the clock, like non-stop almost every minute moment, like just being trapped kind of in the bed, I was like, oh, what is happening? I'm a writer, I used to just stand up. I'm like a gal about town and now I have this velcro pillow around me

like kind of 24 hours a day. I was suffering with postpartum depression. Not surprisingly. It's just a huge, I was like where where am I? When do I ever come back? So I would say it was kind of pretty instant. Yeah, just to double click on the breastfeeding thing. For me and for anyone listening, right? I too was like, I mean, I was a girl about town never after like, never after like 10 p.m. so you can't really be so about town. Yeah, a girl about town.

Girl about town with an ending, with an end time. Yeah, like I like to go out to lunch, okay? That was the kind of, get a coffee here and there. A white white lunch, yes. So that's the kind of person I was. But that actually was a thing for me. And I used to say that, like I loved that like on a nice day, I could be like, I'm gonna go get a nice coffee.

And I could like go and treat myself to that, right? So let's just take that. I could go get a nice coffee. I could go say hi to a friend. I'm gonna go do X, right? And to me, the visual of that is like, I'm sitting on my couch and I have this idea, maybe it's a want-earn urge.

And then I'm like, oh, and you can see me. And then I'm like, up. And I'm gonna go to my car, I live in the city, so I'd go walk. And then I'd, like, that urge and desire in my body I was able to meet with movement and an action to then go express that urge or fulfill that desire. And then in some ways, the loop was closed.

I did the thing I wanted to do. And then I'd walk, I'd probably see people. I'd probably, I don't have some social interaction. I'd move my body, we all know that's good. And then I'd return and I'm like, look at me. I'm a girl about town. I got myself a nice coffee. It's been a crazy, crazy Saturday afternoon.

Okay, so now you have a baby. And you're like, I got myself a nice coffee. It's been a crazy, crazy Saturday afternoon. Okay. So now you have a baby and you're like, I would like a nice coffee. Right. Maybe you're just like so overwhelmed. You're like, I don't even know what I want. But like if you are lucky enough to remember what you want, you might be like me.

I'd be like, I want a nice coffee and I'm sitting on my couch again and I have this inkling, which I'm also so accustomed to like kind of pairing with movement and action and like fulfilling that loop and instead. Yes. Just right. Instead what instead is the experience like. I mean, I don't I hate to use this term, but I guess we'll just I mean, I just felt like I was in like jail. Like you can't move. The thing that was so shocking was was truly like I had been told like you have to feed your newborn. I think I'm remembering this right, but it's like every basically every 90 minutes they need to, they need to eat if they're awake or even if they're asleep, you

kind of have to wake them up. But what I didn't know was that it was like it's every 90 minutes from when they last started. Not from when they finished and then my son was just like the slowest. Just like like a like an old man at a like an Atlantic city buffet just like just slowly cruising. And the feed itself would take to get him to do it and learning how to do it, it would take about an hour and a half. And then I was like, oh my god, no, I have to. But now I'm starting again. It was just insane. It felt, it really felt like I was tracked.

Right, so then if you think about the huge gap between, like, I want to go out of my house, I want to go check this thing off. I want to get something for myself. Then I have the freedom of movement to go do that and complete the action and have the fulfillment and maybe wash rinse repeat again. Instead of that, and this is obviously just such a small example of it. But instead of that, you're like, oh, like're just like, you kind of sink back to your couch, like kind of defeated. Even if like your babe, you're just like, I'm defeated just because I was like, I guess I can't do that thing. I wanted to do what he's used to doing. I have this, this baby I'm

feeding. And I think something that was surprising for me was how hard feeding was. Like no one tells you. It's just like, it's hard. It's a struggle. It's like they might be crying and you're like, I literally just wanna be kidding my latte, so please. I mean, instead they're crying, it's so different. None of that kind of fulfillment happens of like you're in that moment desire. And instead, right, you are responsible for like sustaining this human through food, right?

Like that's right. Right? I mean over and over, it's your only job. And to be very clear, I wanted more than that latte. I really, I was like, I need a drink, which I did occasionally. Not too. Allow myself to have. And I also want to, I feel like it's just important to say too, because I feel very strongly about

the pressure that exists on mothers now to like exclusively breastfeed or honestly, breastfeed at all. And I just, I just want to take the mom of a while, we're in this kind of visual to say, I'm such a believer in dumping those pressures right out the door. And I gave my son formula from like day one basically. I wasn't making enough milk for him. And I just, it was, and then I also, I breastfed until he was like eight months and I was like, I'm done. I want to jump into something you just said

because I want to double click on it. I'm the same way. I gave part four, Emula, right, from day one, but it's so interesting how insidious this narrative is because what you said, Jesse, is something I say to people too. I wasn't producing enough, right? Just, it is also okay.

Just be like, I am giving my kid part four, Emula, all four, Emula. Period. Period. Period. Period. Okay, just be like, I am giving my kid part formula, all formula, period. Period, period. Period. Period. Yeah, and what was really shocking to me also was like very good friends of mine,

very educated women, very feminist women, like extremely independent women, outspoken women, all fell sort of victim to the same shame and guilt about the breastfeeding of it all. I know a couple of friends who were pushing themselves to the point of just, I don't a nervous breakdown about I can't give my baby formula, but my baby is coming close to not thriving. And it was so shocking to me.

If I have like one thing that I want women to know, it's just like if you just gave your baby formula, it would be fine. It would be fine. I mean, maybe even great. Like what I often say, yes, I often think that that stress, that panic, that total spiral into the abyss, that mom's can go into around breastfeeding.

I have a thing like, what if you're just giving your baby liquid cortisol? Like that's literally what's coming through your breast smelling. Like I don't know anyone who's like, that would be great, right? What any child needs more than anything else at any stage of their development is the

sturdiest parent possible. That's really what they need. Because that is actually how you form the best bond with your child, the secure attachment with your child, right? And that is the end goal. And then the conduits, we all have to get there are different for everyone. For some people, breastfeeding, they're like, I love the way I showed up and how that bottomy, uh, amazing. And if you're listening to this and you're like, oh my goodness,

I am just like Jesse and Dr. Becky and for various reasons, like formula made more sense, part whole. And even that could be the best decision you've ever made. Because it's such a bummer to feel like like you're missing out on being able to enjoy any of it. And I will say also my experience was, and the headline for me is I went into having a child as someone who was, first of all, in Vivalent about whether I was going to have a child most of my life. But I just knew I was never

going to be a baby person. I knew like at my time to shine, to do whatever degree I've ever going to shine as a mother, it would be like six and up. So it's very, I was having a hard time enjoying babyhood anyway, but I feel like just because the sleep, all of it. But I think if I had also allowed myself to kind of fully buy into the crushing pressure to only have my baby survive on milk I was making. I don't, I honestly don't know that I'd be alive. I, it feels awful. When I see women posting on Facebook, I'm still in a lot of mom Facebook groups which have been such a savior for me

over these many years. I still see women in knots about it. It makes me so sad. I wish we could release everybody from that judgment. So we're approaching the holidays, and if you're like me, you're soon going to be thinking, what do I get my kids? And what do I tell other family members to get them? Gift giving is one more thing on parents' overwhelming holiday to-do list. Well, I have a little reframe here. I want to give you permission to let go of some of your tasks and make room for fun. This can actually be a really hard part of parenting, but every single time I push myself to lead with lightness and join my kids in play, something good happens.

And KiwiCo can help with this too, because it's truly the gift that keeps on giving. Why? Kiwi Co will send your kid a fun project every month, perfect for cold weekend days when you're not sure how to pass the time. Plus, Kiwi Co crates our design to build lifelong skills through fun hands-on projects. So as your kid is creating, they're also building resilience, confidence, and self-trust. Unwrap Hands-On Fun with KiwiCo. Get your first month free on any crate line at KiwiCo.com slash Dr. Becky. That's your first month free at kiwico.com slash drbcky. B-R-B-E-C-K-Y. I think this is connected, though, right from the start, to so many other things you talk

about. And I think this big theme is the ways we've unconsciously defined good motherhood and how linked it is to sacrifice. And as soon as you say it, I think most of us here that were like, what, that's messed up, why should I, but it's actually really linked to so many of the things that we assume a quote, good mom's do, right? So again, we're not talking about breastfeeding only.

We're talking about the sacrifice of, I don't know, essentially becoming a very, very torn down version of yourself for supposedly the betterment of your child. Like in some ways, we're saying, oh, being a good mom is becoming the smallest weakest, most tortured part of yourself. Like, that's really what we're saying, right? And I think one of the things you talk about in so many areas of your book, I don't think you say this explicitly, good motherhood, good parenthood, is not defined by any single action.

And actually, every parent does a range of things, and that's what I'm going to do, has a range of struggles, has a range of thoughts, right? You say, unimaginable thoughts we have. Yes. All of us have moments where we find ourselves imagining that we are capable of doing unimaginable things. We don't talk about this enough.

These are your words. We just live with the secret feeling of being guilty little monsters. Tell me about this. Well, you know, and again, I want to caveat it by saying like this is going to sound dark. And at the same time, I don't want to caveat anything because I feel like one of the traps of how we've landed here is that women aren't allowed to talk about the dark side

of motherhood and the dark feelings we have. And that's why then when you have them to your point about feeling alone, because we're not allowed to talk about them, we all feel alone. But so the caveat dark thing that I wrote about in the book is just to say, you know, at least I give birth in New York. I don't know if this is a national thing, but when I left the hospital, they give you a pamphlet that you must sign or something you've read about shaking babies to drove. Everyone gets a pamphlet about shaking babies to drove

and you have to read it and acknowledge you've accepted it and seen it. And the reason for that is not because, like, only one person in the history of the world has ever accidentally really hurt their baby. It's because they know something is going to come up where you're going to probably lose it. You need to know, like everyone needs to know this. And when you can lens like, yes, we're all going to like reach our limits. That's what I talk about in the book a lot is for me, motherhood has been a journey of just feeling like, oh my god, I'm at my limit. Like, and you obviously, and this is why you are,

and your work means so much to me, hearing you over these last few years, sort of talk about how we all reach our limits and that that's okay. And how do we handle that without hurting anyone? And also how do we handle it and take care of ourselves? Feels, I just think that notion that like women are supposed to be limitless is so deeply threaded into everything about patriarchy. We all have limits. We just do. You know what's interesting? My thought, as you said, that I never thought about it

until this very moment, women being limitless is just saying women are bound realists. Women have no boundaries for themselves. Yes. Because one of the reasons we feel like, I'm at my limit is we haven't learned that it's okay to set a boundary sooner. Yes. Yeah. Right. That we are supposed to do everything for everyone and meet everyone's needs and always be patient and always be caregiving, right? And then yeah, it's no wonder why we have certain moments where like, okay, I guess I have found the limit or maybe the limit is just smacked me in the face. I haven't even found it. Just smacked me in the face. I mean, I will say too, and I wrote a little bit about this in the book too. You know, my, I had a really amazing OB-GYN doctor shout out Dr. Tony Sang-V. You know, at some point she had been talking to me about, she's like, would

you guys be able to hire a night nurse after the baby comes in as we really didn't have family available to help us. And I had a lot of guilt about the idea. I'm like, what's, who hires a knight nurse? Like that's for rich people that's so indulgent. Why am I having a kid if I'm not going to take care of the kid myself? And she was like, stop right there. She's like, we are not living the way we were evolved to live where you are in a village and you are giving birth when you're 18 and you've got a great-grandparent, maybe even a great-grandparent in a village of people who are all relieving you at various times.

We're living in this way where we were never intended to spend this many hours straight without relief with babies and small children. And that was such a revelation for me. I was like, wait, I was like, Dr. Tony, that makes a ton of sense. In the modern world, she's like, we're just so much more isolated than we would ever would have been. And I think just bringing it back to the idea of limits, like, I do naturally feel like, especially when my child was that age, you know, a baby toddler. I was kind of like two hours is when I start to feel myself starting to crumple, just even from the boredom alone. And

again, I'm always worried when I see these things that people are gonna hate me, but I think I've had enough encounters with other moms or people are just like, yeah, that's how I feel too. And it's not everyone, but I think it's a lot of people. So, say more, paint the picture of that boredom. I'll jump into, so I won't even leave you alone in this conversation, but I know someone's listening

being like, I hope she's spouting boredom. hope she is. Oh, I could go on way longer than this talk about boredom, um, become a very boring podcast to keep describing it. But the one, the image in my mind of when my son was like two and three years old was, he, his favorite, he just loved cars and he loved to play cars. We had somehow, I don't, my, his dad's not super in a car. Cars became it. Love cars just wanted to push cars on the ground and he, because we live in LA, he got obsessed, I guess, with playing parking. And then he wanted to park the cars. And it's like, what's more nightmarish than parking, trying to find parking in real life is just playing parking

For hours on end hours and hours on end and it sort of brought back that newborn baby feeling of being strapped into the nursing pillow where I'm sitting on the floor. It's Saturday so like no one's coming to help there's no preschool. And we've been up since I'm gonna say five AM because my son's always an early riser. And it's like now 10 AM. We've been up for five hours. And we've been playing parking for like three. And it's 10 and he doesn't want to stop.

And you're just like, how will this ever end? I'm not enjoying this. I don't like being a mom. Am I a bad person? Is I feel like I've seen diaper commercials or other commercials where it looks like women are enjoying this? And I'm not. And then this is controversial too, but I have a chapter in the book about how,

if we got to the afternoon, that is when I would be like, I'm having a drink. I need one drink to get through this, maybe even one and a half, because I am, I have not just reached my limit, I know evaporated so far past my limit. Well, okay, you've just said everything someone could say in a whole narrative where I would like to go back and kind of click on a couple different things. So I'm going to click, okay? Okay, first of all, when my friends asked me what it was like to become a mom, because I had my first pretty young, and at least in my circle of friends, young, and so they all treated me like I was like the first human to like ever have a child ever.

I was like, oh my God. And I've always, I don't know, I've always just kind of said things how I've seen them. I'm not like someone who sugarcoats things, so whenever they said, how is being a mom? Like how would you describe it? Because like, I'm going to get pregnant soon. However, I'd always say it is the most interesting combination of insanely demanding and insanely mind numbing. And I've just never experienced those two things at the same

time. And that's the, that's exactly, I think, what you're talking about. We're not used to that becoming apparent. Like, you have things that are demanding, but when they're demanding, they're interesting and they're kind of provocative. And then you think that are my numbing. And those tend to actually be relatively easy tasks to do, but they're just my numbing. But to have something that is demanding and totally exhausting. And at the same time, so monotonous and my numnumbing, I think is like a very new experience for our body.

And so that is what so much, for me, at least, of what early parenthood was like. And then what you're saying two years later, two hours of a certain type of play with your child, if it's not aligned with your interests, if you are a car-efficient auto, you might have lived it. I don't know. You know, never know. It could have been a good match. But often it's not aligned. And the thing about that that I found interesting about what you said, right, is if for a moment you imagine yourself being there and you just say to yourself, like, I'm not enjoying this, I find this pretty boring. And then you just kind of watch that thought. The thought on its own doesn't actually give us a lot of distress.

It's like, well, I guess it's as distressing as the thought of anything. Boring, it's just unenjoyable. The thought that gives us distress is that the fact that I find this boring in my numbing makes me a bad parent. And to me, this is like the core thing that I like to talk about, which is the way we collapse behavior or thoughts or feelings into identity. I'm thinking this, it makes me a bad mom. Right, to some degree, again, good mom is equated to sacrifice her.

I just love doing whatever my kid loves to do. In which case, we're talking about a person with no limits, because there's actually no boundary between what I like to do as an adult woman, which is probably not a fox car. And cars for like four hours in a row. Okay. And what my child does. So all of this is like really coming together. And I mean, there's so many different things to say about this. But what I want everyone at least listening and you, Jesse, I'm sure you've given yourself permission for this by now is like really holding

separate like I'm a good parent who is not enjoying this. I'm a good parent who like so many other parents doesn't like doing things hours and hours at a time, like my child does. And then it begs another question, which is, do I give myself permission to say to my son? Maybe not after five minutes, but definitely before I'm ready to like,

I don't know, you know, like let out a vicious scream. Can I say after 45 minutes, hey, you know what? I am, I'm car parked out. You seem not to be. Okay, you know, I am. And if you want to do something else together, here are the three things I'd be happy to do. I'm gonna give you three, you pick one.

And if you're really, really into parking cars, you know what, this is actually an amazing time for you to watch yourself learn how to enjoy something you're doing without me. And I'm gonna go to the kitchen, and have a cup of coffee, and write down. So whatever it is that you wanna do, right? Exactly.

I gosh, how I wish this conversation had existed when I was sitting on the floor with those cars. Like if you're not enjoying it, it doesn't mean you're a bad parent. I think like that's so magical to hear. And I also think like just what you were saying about, you know, and it goes to even maybe that younger age, like, you know, what I was

writing about too is the idea that, like, motherhood is like a hero's journey. And we're so used to, like, when you talk about things being demanding and high stakes, we think about the stories of, like, adventures, you know, and like, saving private Ryan and war stories and someone is saving lives. And the thing about being the mother of or the parent of a very small child is 24 hours a day, you have to be sort of passively saving their life, right? You're like, I have to make sure 24 hours a day you don't eat a penny and choke to death on a penny. And so my vigilance is the same as if I was in a life and death situation, but none of my surroundings look like what I've been taught a life or death situation. Adventure

heroic moment looks like. And at the same time, part of this does feel boring to me. But you are continuously in high adrenaline, like you're saying at the same time that you're bored. And that is just such a specific, I feel like female journey. Yes. And what I thought you were going to say, which is another angle, is like, if you think about being a parent, it's like a hero's journey. And like, that is what we're in the business of doing as a parent. Like, I guess you could phrase it in a lot of ways. You're saving lives. You are preserving life. Yeah, you are preserving life. And like, you're hopefully setting up your kid in a way that helps them, like like live their best life. And I'm not talking about best life. Like look at me on vacation living my best life. No, there doesn't have

to be a boat. No, you don't know boat. Okay. No, the best version of themselves. That is a hero's journey. And again, like nobody ever says to a soldier, they do love every minute? Like to do. Love it. Wasn't your favorite? No, but what people say is like, thank you. And you are so courageous. Thank you for your service. You've done something really important. I'm crying again. It's the, it's, there's such a big gap between what we're sold and just what is.

And that gap more than the reality is actually what spirals us. Yes Yes, and the only way that it feels like that could ever possibly change I mean the way you put it just now is so perfect. It's like what we're sold and the reality I'm trying to think of I mean, I guess In the moment the other examples of that don't matter, but it is such a chasm that exists at least in this country society between, again, pamper commercial land, just a beautiful mom staring into a beautiful baby's eyes and everyone smiling and no one's crying or screaming. And that's just not

what it is. But I feel like the only way we can ever kind of collectively get past that is just through talking about it and telling these stories. That's and like women sort of saying being able to tell the truth. And I think the fact that it is still so hard for women to say this truth. Again, lots of women who I think, just people I personally know who I see as being so brave and outspoken and smart, still the shame that we carry about saying, this is hard, I don't like it.

It feels awful. So, Jesse, I could continue this conversation to you forever, but in the name of the stories that are being told, and I'm thinking about all the moms, all the new parents who are listening to this, who are actually right now writing their own story of new motherhood. Yes.

Like what are, maybe we could go back and forth. What are a few of the things that you would, like if you were sitting next to them on that couch when they wanted to go do something and couldn't because they're instead like feeding or they're too tired or the babies, you know, has to go down for a nap. Well, what would you whisper in their ear?

Oh my gosh. I mean, the first one is the one that's probably the least helpful, which is just like, it gets better. It won't always be like this. Like, this feels like forever. I remember that feeling. I was like, this is, I'm trapped this way. This is now the forever.

And it's just so, the feeling is so big, it like shorts out any intellectual knowledge that they won't always be that way. Gosh, what else would I whisper? I'll just throw out a few. I mean, you are allowed to go on Indy to presence. You should reach out to your doctor if you're feeling blue and there are things you can take that will help you through this time. You're not a bad mom if you want to say like, I need to give the baby to, you know, if you have a partner, give the baby to partner

and take a walk or just take a break. I guess I would say like anything you can do to take care of yourself, please do it. You're not a bad mom for needing to take care of yourself, please do it. You're not a bad mom for needing to have some kind of self preservation here. I'm gonna add on a few things too. You know, one of the things you said that I always think about the hardest thing

about my early days, you just said it feels like forever, like whatever's happening. I always said it feels like whatever. I remember in that time, whatever the reality was in front of me, it feels like forever like whatever's happening. I always said it feels like whatever I remember in that time whenever the reality was in front of me it felt like the truth Like my baby's not feeding I have a baby who doesn't feed well I have a baby who doesn't eat well I am a mom who's not gonna figure this out like this moment felt like the single truth and so related to that too if I'm sitting next to you

I'm just saying, I know what this feels like the truth. And there will be another truth soon, like they're equally true. That makes that makes me cry. Even now, my son is eight. I feel like every, every few months, there's the behavior or the thing, just the same way with the baby, or I'm like, oh my god, he's being so rude. And now we're stuck this way. Or like, and this is forever, is he like this? Did I meet? Is this my fault? I made him this way. There was a period where he was having ticks. Yeah. Like anxiety ticks that kicked in. And it was so upsetting. I'm like, oh my god, this is the truth now. Those were it. Like this is, we're stuck here. This is now where we are.

And always it ends with, and it's my fault. And we're stuck here. And it's never been true. I will say, we've always moved through the hardest, scariest things where I thought this is it. That's exactly right. Yeah. And you know, there's also, I think a time if I was sitting next to a new mom,

I would just probably say nothing and give a hug. I would say whatever you're feeling, I have felt that way too. Yes, motherhood comes with the entire range of feelings from excited to down and dark and angry and jealous and mad and all of that. And then I hope new parents are able to really start to me.

It's like a practice of saying to yourself, like, I am a good parent who, and then filling in the blank with the thing that they think threatens their good parenthood. I'm a good parent who's not enjoying this. I'm a good parent who's bored. I am a good parent who's daydreaming about all the things that used to be able to do before I had a baby.

I am a good parent who, daydreaming about all the things that used to be able to do before I had a baby. I am a good parent who and it really like separates that like wait. Good parenthood as an identity is separate from anyone feeling or any one moment right and it's like a little verbal trick we can say to ourselves to separate that. Yeah, yes that's so powerful. I mean, that's what I would say to basically all the women who were taking the time to write to me that they felt seen by the book that they're like, there's so many women are like, I have a four-year-old, a two-year-old, and a one-month-old, and I'm sitting, I've been overwhelmed and just I don't know what to do and I would just raise right back, you're doing a great job. You're doing a great job and also probably the moments where you the least feel like you're doing a great job. That is actually when you are doing the greatest job, because you are in the struggle.

You are doing the heroic thing. Like that moment where it feels impossible and you are going to get through it, even if it's yelling, even if it's survived. It's like if everyone has survived the day, you're doing a great job. Yeah, yes. I love that.

I love ending on that. Thank you, Jessie. Thank you for really honest conversation. Thank you for sharing your story with so many moms and dads who need to hear it. So thank you. Thank you so much, Dr. Becky. Thank you for all the work you do.

Thank you so much Dr. Becky, thank you for all the work you do. Thanks for listening. To share a story or ask me a question, go to goodinside.com slash podcast. You could also write me at podcast at goodinside.com. Parenting is the hardest and most important job in the world. And parents deserve resources and support so they feel empowered, confident, and connected. I'm so excited to share Good Inside Membership. The first platform that brings together content and experts you trust with a global community of like-valued parents.

It's totally game-changing. Good Inside with Dr. Becky is produced by Jesse Baker and Eric Newsom at Magnificent Noise. Our production staff includes Sabrina Farhi, Julia Nat and Kristen Muller. I would also like to thank Eric Obelsky, Mary Panico, and the rest of the good inside team. And one last thing before I let you go. Let's end by placing our hands on our hearts and reminding ourselves, even as I struggle, and even as I have a hard time on the outside. I remain good inside.