Good Inside with Dr. Becky - Overstimulated and Touched Out
Episode Date: August 15, 2023Parenting small children is a full-body sensory experience. They're loud. They're grabby. They make messes everywhere. Personal space isn't a concept they fully understand yet. And as a parent, it's a... lot. Occupational therapist Larissa Geleris joins Dr. Becky to give parents tips and tools for sensory and emotional regulation so they can go back to enjoying parenthood.Our podcast feed has gotten a little unruly, so in an effort to curate it for you, we are picking a few of our must listen episodes from the back catalog for you to enjoy. We will continue to rotate these episodes as the season unfolds. And as always, for more parenting scripts, resources, and full access to the entire podcast catalog visit goodinside.comJoin Good Inside Membership: https://bit.ly/45eilyqFollow Dr. Becky on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drbeckyatgoodinsideSign up for our weekly email, Good Insider: https://www.goodinside.com/newsletterOrder Dr. Becky's book, Good Inside: A Guide to Becoming the Parent You Want to Be, at goodinside.com/book or wherever you order your books.For a full transcript of the episode, go to goodinside.com/podcastFor more resources and information on Larissa's work: https://www.steadyparents.comToday’s episode is brought to you by Little Spoon: When Back to School chaos begins, we all need an easy, don't-have-to-think-about-it win. Something dependable, something low-effort, something to just make those transition weeks easier. Little Spoon enables parents to feel proud of the food they're serving without having to spend the time planning, shopping, prepping, cooking, or cleaning. It’s like a kids’ food magic wand that parents can feel GOOD about serving. From baby to big kid, their foods are free of junk and packed with good stuff - including veggies kids actually eat. And Little Spoon doesn’t just provide products, they also are big on TOOLS to handle the tough eating days. Dr. Becky had the opportunity to share a few of her tips on mealtime challenges in their first box booklet. Grab 50% OFF your first order at littlespoon.com when you use the code GOODINSIDEVIP at checkout.
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I'm Dr. Becky and this is Good Inside.
Parenting small children is a full body sensory experience.
I mean, they scream, they grab, they make messes, and as a parent, it can be totally overwhelming
and take the joy out of a moment.
My guest today is Larissa Jalaris.
She's an occupational therapist specializing in sensory processing disorder.
And she helps parents with sensory and emotional regulation,
so they can enjoy parenthood.
By the end of this episode,
you'll learn some concrete things you can do
to feel less overwhelmed in all of those intense moments.
We'll be right back.
When back to school chaos begins, we all need an easy, don't have to think about it when.
Something dependable, something low effort, something to just make those transition weeks
easier.
You probably know I'm a proponent of cereal for dinner whenever that's what you need.
And, there are probably other nights or weeks when it would just feel so good to put a
nutritious dinner on the table.
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proud of the food I'm serving, without having to spend time planning, shopping, prepping,
cooking, or cleaning.
It's like a kid's food magic wand that we as parents can feel good about serving.
From baby to big kid, their food is free of junk and packed with good stuff, and yes,
with veggies that kids actually eat.
Oh, and the convenience factor.
I mean, they deliver right to your door.
This is amazing, especially during back to school season.
Little Spoon doesn't just provide products.
What I love is that they're also big
on providing tools to handle tough eating days.
I had the opportunity to share a few of my tips
on meal time challenges in their first box booklet.
I know it's a big deal to start something like this.
So it makes sense parents are skeptical
if it could really be that great.
And this is why I asked Little Spoon
to give
a really big discount. So parents would feel just kind of less risk about trying it out.
Grab 50% off your first order at LittleSpoon.com when you use the code GoodInsideVIP at checkout. So just to frame this, for us, for everyone listening, I want us to talk about kind of the
experience of a parent being so overwhelmed with all of the noises and touching and screaming and just kind of sensory overload.
And I think I'm starting to see a little bit more in the media, in literature, about awareness
of sensory dynamics and kids. But what I want to focus here is on the parents' sensory experience
of their kids.
Yes, it's a big experience.
Right?
So you work as an occupational therapist,
primarily with children, with sensory processing disorder.
And I wanna hear kind of how and why you shifted
to kind of addressing sensory issues within parents.
Yes, so I, like you mentioned,
had been working with in the pediatric population
for a long time.
And then when my son was about 18 months old, my oldest,
we all went hiking as a family.
I hit my head, got a pretty terrible concussion
and ended up with my own sensory dysfunction, a lot
of being very startled by noise.
Pretty much everything I treated in the clinic, I was then experiencing.
And I had to work through those experiences and also parent at the same time. And so that was the big shift in me thinking,
like, wait a minute, parents need this information.
You don't have to have hit your head
to know that parenting is a sensory nightmare.
And I have these tools, I have figured out how to use them
in a way that's effective.
And so that's
where I started. I hopped on Instagram in March of 2020, like everyone else, like what
else are we going to do? And that was really what stuck with people really feeling validated
when I would talk about my own experiences with sensory overload as a parent. And what were the evidence-based tools
that I was using for myself to support myself
in taking care of my child and now children,
I now have two of them.
Yeah.
So just for everyone listening, right?
Because sometimes these terms are confusing sensory,
processing, like one of the ways I think about it, okay,
is the other day, somehow we're a really, really, really, and it's really, really, really, really, really, really,
and it's really, really, really, really, really, really,
and it's really, really, really, really, really, really,
and it's really, really, really, really, really, really,
and it's really, really, really, really, really, really,
and it's really, really, really, really, really, really,
and it's really, really, really, really And for maybe the like 21 minutes I had,
I got so much done, I felt so at ease.
And then one by one, my kids came home.
And like everything changed, right?
Like yeah, everything.
It was so loud.
It was like, like each of my kids was like,
kind of like I need to send in your lap.
I need to touch this, mommy come here, do this.
The pulling, it was so different.
And you're right, it's never really discussed.
No one would become a parent is thinking
about their own sensory experiences,
their sensory bucket, how they experience
kind of noise or touch or these different things.
And yes, I think your work is so important
because it is a really influential factor
in our moods, in our reactivity,
in how we then interact with our kids.
Yes, exactly.
It's just, it's everything.
And the thing when I was in pediatrics,
I would speak to the parents like,
sensory processing is your most foundational
sense of yourself.
If you do not have a good sense
of yourself, you cannot feel safe in the moment. You can't access your higher level skills,
executive functioning, attention, concentration, emotional regulation. None of it can happen
without good effective sensory processing, which happens down in the brainstem. So if you
think about it from like a pyramid, the brainstem is the lowest part of the most
primitive part.
If you don't have that, no higher level skills are available.
And so in parenthood, it's the same thing.
If we are not regulated down in our brainstem, all of the other demands of parenthood can't
happen. They're just not available.
Yeah.
So can you give some examples?
So someone's asking my brain stem, sensory processing,
like what goes into that?
So when I talk about sensory systems,
I want you to think about them as like the backstage crew.
This is like my favorite metaphor for it,
because when you think about a backstage crew in a production,
there are so many different jobs. They're all working, doing their own thing, working behind
the scenes. They're talking to each other, you know, you have lights, costumes, all of that.
They're all working together and separately to make sure that the job gets done, but
you as the viewer, the audience, don't see it happening, but you do see a seamless
theater production.
So you see it all come together.
But if one crew member isn't moving efficiently or if it's not talking to the other systems,
then the whole production will struggle.
You'll notice it's like the lights didn't turn on when they should have, and you might
not be able to tell why immediately.
But if you do know the role of every crew member, then you can start to figure it out. So if you think about the sensory
systems, it's the same thing. So we have our five sensory systems that everybody always talks about.
Those are the ones you learn in kindergarten, you know, site, taste, touch, smell, and hearing.
But there are also three hidden senses as well. There's vestibular, which is our sense of
head movement, where our head is in relationship to gravity, how it's tilted, if it's moving towards
the ground and how quickly it's moving. We have proprioception, which is, it's located in our muscles
and joints. It's the input that you receive when your muscle stretch
and contract, when your joints move.
It provides information about where our body is
without having to look at it.
So that's how you can reach around to get that itch
on the back, on your back, without needing to see it.
And then we have our inter-oception,
which is our sense of internal sensations of the body.
So that's heart rate, that's hunger, thirst, bowel and bladder pressure, all of that.
So all of those systems, all eat of them need to be working together and separately and talking to each other so that we can then have a good sense of where we are in space, have a good sense of what's happening around us
and keep ourselves safe.
So really, it's a foundational primary sense of safety.
So for example, the auditory system will tell us
if there's a predator looming nearby,
our vestibular and proprioceptive systems will tell us
if we're moving, if we're falling, if we're being pushed,
the tactile system, our touch system tells us if we're getting bitten by a snake, or if
we are brushing up against some poison ivy.
So if we shift that understanding of sensory processing and sensory overload really to a
sense of foundational safety, then it's a lot easier to one show kindness to ourselves
when we enter sensory overload
and also to understand how foundational it is.
And it's really, it's when we are experiencing sensory overload.
It's just our sensory systems working
a little too fiercely in the midst of sensory chaos.
So, okay, so let me paint a picture
because I hear from parents all the time,
I go, I know the parent,
I want to be, I see the situation.
My kid is having a tantrum, my kid is getting really upset, and I kind of know how I want
to show up, but then the moment comes, and I'm not showing up that way.
So let's say this parent, calling for a friend, has a five year old son like I happen to and that son is very strong and very strong
Will then when you say no that kid is it is not an easy. Okay, mom. It's like a no I wanted
I want that water bottle now and I need that water bottle now and you need okay
Like from your O.T. perspective from a sensory perspective like walk us us through what might going on for the parent.
So the parent listening me, and maybe some of her listeners do, can just better understand,
oh, like that's a factor in why it's so hard for me to stay calm. Yeah. I also have a strong
wild five-year-old son. So I don't know if you were talking about me, but that sounds very
familiar in my life. So what happens then is let's think about
co-regulation because that is such a key piece. And it's talked about so much in the parenting
space, but one of the pieces that gets talked about, which is great, is that a child needs like
a calm adult to learn how to stay calm. Absolutely a hundred percent. And co-regulation
is our nervous system listening to another's nervous system and making sense of the situation
based on somebody else's outward experience. So if we, the parent, are getting cues from another,
like you're the worst mom ever,
hitting, screaming, tantrumming, all of that stuff,
that is sending signals to our nervous system
that there's danger.
And that's just instinct.
That's not anything wrong.
That's exactly what it's meant to do.
But we as the parent then need to be able to step back, but to understand,
like, this is just our nervous system's talking to each other. It makes sense that a
dysregulated child will dysregulate an adult.
So, I love this clarification, right? Because if we're thinking about other times, our nervous system would send our bodies the message of danger.
Let's say like we're all out in a forest for some reason and a bear attacks. Okay. And like a bear is right there, some animal.
We don't want our bodies to say, hey bear, it's going to be okay. Like I'm here for you. Like, that would be so weird.
And like, we'd be like, wow, my body really was working
against, like, it's sort of like, realize there was a danger,
like probably started running or like, I don't know,
fighting or whatever we do, right?
So that wouldn't make sense.
So, okay, we're not in the forest with a bear.
It's true.
We are in the kitchen talking about a water bottle
with our five-year-old son, okay?
But our body, when it hears our five-year-old scream goes from zero to a hundred, goes from
kind of quiet to really, really loud, maybe they're pulling on our arm too, right?
Our body is kind of not operating in space in the same way because we're being pulled
whatever it is.
Our body, is this what you're saying too, it kind of thinks it's being attacked by a
bail.
Yes.
And I would argue that we're not going from zero to a hundred.
We're going from like 70 to a hundred, 60 to a hundred.
We, when we get- Thank you for the correction.
Yeah, well, I mean, it's, I think it is so easy to feel
like you're going from zero to 100
because the little subtle shifts in your body
that indicate that you are in a heightened state
are hard to notice.
And so that is really, honestly,
the bulk of my work is helping you set yourself up proactively
once so that you can notice those subtle shifts and then shift yourself back down.
So when your child does have those meltdowns in those tantrums because they are going to,
you are starting at zero, maybe 10, maybe 20.
And so you are better able to handle that.
Your body is not already in a heightened state
of nervous system activation
so that you can then be that calm for your child
versus going from like your...
So Larissa, Larissa is what you're saying.
When our kid has that tantrum, that's scream.
And we think, oh, I went from zero to 100.
If we think about the zero or 100 as like a bucket that can hold a certain amount of water,
we're actually not at zero. Like if we're not paying attention to our sensory system and our sensory
needs, when we're not in a tantrum, we're probably at 70% full of our bucket at baseline.
We think our is here, but we're not.
It's already 70% full.
So then our kid does whatever the thing is they do.
And we think, oh, I'm so triggered.
I don't show up the way I want.
But really, the answer might not be,
how can I intervene differently in the moment? The answer might be, how can I intervene differently in the moment?
The answer might be, how can I intervene differently
with myself outside the moment?
So when I get to that moment,
I actually am closer to 0% full of my sensor, he bucket,
and I'm not so easily overflowing.
Is that making sense?
Is that accurate from your perspective?
Yes.
Okay, so tell me more, explain that more to everyone
because that's a really powerful shift and actually gives us
like a different intervention to think about.
Yes.
So if you think about like you were saying,
thinking about your sensory systems as a bucket.
So we, everybody has a different sensory capacity
for what their nervous system needs,
not only what they can handle, but what they need. Like everybody needs a certain amount of input.
Some people need more to stay regulated to kind of be in this active, like where you and I are
having this conversation and we are attentive and alert and engaged.
Some people need a lot.
Like for me, before this, I was chewing crunchy food.
I was listening to loud music.
I was really getting myself pumped up
for this conversation because I knew
that I was already feeling kind of sluggish.
And so that's what I did.
Whereas for others, they may need like very little.
Maybe somebody would have needed a very calm environment to get to that alert and concentrated
and regulated state.
Throughout the day, we are getting sensory input.
Even without children, we would be getting sensory input.
We are driving, talking, eating, all of that should be a good amount of input to keep us
regulated throughout the day. Depending on the size of our bucket, we need more
or less. And so if we know that we have a smaller bucket, and when I say
bucket, I mean like your capacity. So for what you can handle, so if you
imagine sensory input, like water going into a bucket, if it's a smaller bucket,
it will overflow more quickly. And that's where going into a bucket, if it's a smaller bucket,
it will overflow more quickly.
And that's where you see overstimulation.
And it's this total, like, whoa, too much, too fast.
And it spills over.
And so what we want to be doing is providing opportunities to empty that bucket throughout
the day so that we can handle the big moments
in parenthood.
And not only just be there for our children when they're having difficult moments, but we
also want to enjoy them.
And I think that's a huge piece that a lot of parents are like, I just need to get through
this.
I need to get through this.
Like, parenting is beautiful.
And when we are in a regulated state,
from a sensory perspective, our nervous system is available to have safe connected relationships.
And that means enjoying our children, playing with our children, and really getting to know them.
Having sensory strategies is such a beautiful thing in supporting that.
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So Laura says, so I'm going to assume for a lot of the parents listening, they're thinking, oh, yeah, I never maybe thought
about that way. But I think maybe I have a small bucket. Right.
And let me be clear here, everyone. It's not like a morality
judgment. It's not like you're a worse parent for that. Not at
all. I feel like adulthood is just about getting to know ourselves, figuring ourselves out and figuring out
a meter needs. There's no better or worse. It's really just that. Right. And so for people who are thinking maybe that is one of the reasons I find parent had so chaotic and so loud.
This is why maybe I find tantrums that much more difficult to even be in the same room and when it's happening.
that much more difficult to even be in the same room and when it's happening.
Apparence listening to this, I think they're like,
oh my goodness, that makes so much sense.
And then I think they're wondering,
okay, can you please give me like one, maybe two, concrete.
How to empty that bucket.
How to bring ourselves back to a zero type of exercises.
Can you walk us through one right now?
Yes.
So one of my all time favorite strategies,
because it's so simple, is leaning against a wall.
Because what happens when you lean against a wall?
One, you're not, I mean, I love hiding in my closet
in my bathroom too, but kids seem to like follow you in there.
And then it's, you know, then they're banging at the door
and then you're feeling guilty and it's this whole thing. So when you are leaning against a wall,
your kids don't notice that something else is happening. They're still doing whatever they're
doing, but you are getting grounding input into your body from the wall. It helps you understand
where you are in space. It also cuts off auditory and visual stimuli from behind. So you then are not, you're
only having to process half of what you were processing before. And so it cuts down the demands
significantly. And so it can be one of the most. So wait, I'm gonna, I know you can see me, everyone can
see me. I'm in a podcast studio. I hope hope everyone. I actually like, I'm gonna do this.
So, so just, you can see me.
So I'm standing up.
And then just like literally just put my back
against the wall, okay.
And yes, now I'm getting, I'm cutting off kind of half
the space.
And also, I don't know if this is what's intended,
like, it sounds so, like I feel supported by the wall.
Is that part of it, that input?
Yes, it's like a weighted blanket for your back.
And then you also can breathe there,
which is, and then you're getting tactile cues
into your ribcage too.
So you can really take in those deep breaths in and out.
You can ground yourself and understand
where you really pay attention to your feet.
You can, it's so simple and so grounding, which is why it's one of my favorites.
And that can really, it can really help reduce spill out some of the water in your bucket.
And then I want to make this one more level, like logistically concrete for everyone listening. So the other day, actually, in our membership, someone posted this screenshot of their
phone and kind of said, you know you're a good inside member when, essentially, because
I'm such a big fan of using phone reminders to help us kind of align our intention with
actions.
Because to me, let's use technology for our benefit
when our phone beeps. We all listen to it, right? So we can use that to our advantage. So everyone
listening here, if you are not driving a car, if you are able to, actually take out your phone
and go to reminders. And I would set a reminder that says, stand against a wall,
breathe in and out, I don't know, 10 times, whatever the amount is.
And then set it for a time in your day
when you know you're not gonna be mid-tantra.
So maybe your kid naps at noon.
So you're like, you know what, that generally happens.
You know, 80% of the time, so it's 12, 15.
Maybe it's I am someone who always takes a midday walk. Okay. Do it
that. And I know I pick up my kid at 3 p.m. I'm going to do it at 2 30 and actually set that.
Would you have someone set it or set every day like once a week? Like how often?
Oh, multiple times a day. Because it's such a simple thing. It doesn't take anything
away. You can be there for a minute, you can be there for 10 minutes,
whatever your body needs.
I also would think about the moments
that you know are triggering like that five to eight p.m. chaos.
So maybe four.
Before your kids start getting hungry and cranky
and clawing at your leg and the stove vent
start running and the sizzling from the pan on the stove.
And when you know that those moments of the day
are especially triggering for you,
then before those moments is when you want to be taking time
to support yourself.
And leaning against a wall is one way to do that.
You can also add in crunchy and chewy foods,
either at the same time or at a different time.
And that provides deep, resistive sensory input
into your mouth.
It's why babies like to chew on things.
Their children are brilliant at figuring out what they need.
And somehow, somewhere along the way, we've lost that.
But those strategies still work for us as adults.
And when you are chewing something crunchy, chewing something chewy, it could be gum,
it could be dried mango, it could be beef jerky, it could be a bagel, whatever it is, it's
providing input into your muscles and your joints into your jaw, which are very, very sensitive
and releasing serotonin, which then helps regulate you. And so having moments where you know those strategies,
and you do them intentionally, not mindlessly,
if you're just kind of like, oh, yeah, I'm going to chew
whatever, but not really pay attention.
I'm still scrolling on my phone.
It doesn't exactly have the same effect.
Really be mindful about what you're doing.
Feel the input into your joints, and really pay attention to it.
And you can feel the tension,
the sensory overload melt away.
I love that.
And now my like bagel habit,
I feel like has like basically
is like evidence-based, you know?
Absolutely, I appreciate.
Yeah, I appreciate this, you know?
Holy, everything bagel with scallion cream cheese is good for the soul and it is
good for my sensory bucket as well.
So just saying.
Well, Laura said this was great and I love this really kind of concrete way of giving
parents things that they can actually do.
So those moments come when they're overwhelming and their body might be kind
of as able literally to tolerate a little bit more of that sensory experience because they
have figured out a way to empty, you know, something out. So thank you. Thank you for your
focus. Thank you for these strategies. Thank you for your ideas. This was fantastic.
And look forward to hopefully connecting another time soon. Yes, absolutely. Thank you so
much for having me.
Thanks for listening. To share a story or ask me a question, go to goodinside.com slash podcast.
You could also write me at podcast at goodinside.com.
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It's totally game-changing. Good Inside with
Dr. Becky is produced by Jesse Baker and Eric Newsom at Magnificent Noise. Our
production staff includes Sabrina Farhi, Julia Nat and Kristen Mueller. I would
also like to thank Eric Obelsky, Panico, and the rest of the good inside team.
And one last thing before I let you go.
Let's end by placing our hands on our hearts and reminding ourselves, even as I struggle,
and even as I have a hard time on the outside, I remain good inside.