Good Inside with Dr. Becky - Tapping Into Your Kid's Hidden Potential

Episode Date: November 7, 2023

Everyone has hidden potential. Organizational psychologist, Wharton professor, and author, Adam Grant, joins Dr. Becky to discuss his newest book Hidden Potential. This conversation will leave you with a new perspective on what potential really is and how to bring it out in your kid. Order Adam Grant's new book: http://bit.ly/49gmqoqJoin Good Inside Membership: https://bit.ly/3Mi5rINFollow Dr. Becky on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drbeckyatgoodinsideSign up for our weekly email, Good Insider: https://www.goodinside.com/newsletterOrder Dr. Becky's book, Good Inside: A Guide to Becoming the Parent You Want to Be, at goodinside.com/book or wherever you order your books.For a full transcript of the episode, go to goodinside.com/podcastTo listen to Dr. Becky's TED Talk on repair visit https://www.ted.com/talks/becky_kennedy_the_single_most_important_parenting_strategyToday’s episode is brought to you by Ritual: Parents are busy. And even though we know we should prioritize ourselves, sometimes we’re the last thing on our list. Dr. Becky loves anything that makes caring for her family – and herself – easier… including a multivitamin she can trust. Enter Ritual and their “Essential For Women” multivitamin. It fills your nutrient gap with 9 key nutrients — like vitamin D and omega-3s — in just two daily pills. And Ritual delivers to your doorstep every month. It’s clinically backed and has clean, high-quality ingredients. Ritual is transparent – what’s on the label is what’s in it. And you know where everything came from. You can get started with 40% off your first month. Just visit Ritual.com/GoodInside and your 40% discount will automatically be applied to your order. Today’s episode is brought to you by KiwiCo: Not much matters more than helping our kids develop confidence. Confidence comes from watching yourself work hard, tap into your creativity, and do things you may not always do. KiwiCo is like a conduit to confidence. Each month, kids get a box delivered right to them with a hands-on project designed to spark creativity and engage problem-solving… but kids don’t know this is what’s happening, they just see it as a form of play! The projects cater to all types of kids: kids who like science, sensory play, games, or geography. KiwiCo is a win for kid fun and a win for long-term confidence. And now, you can get your first month free on ANY crate line at kiwico.com/drbecky.

I'm Dr. Becky, and this is good inside. When I think about potential, what I'm interested in is your capacity to grow. Yes. And that depends much more on your motivation and the opportunities you have to learn than it does on your raw talent. Whether you think about that as intelligence or athletic ability or being a musical prodigy, like those starting points do not determine the distance you can travel.

And I think that the parents think about this often backward, unfortunately. Today I have Adam Grant on the podcast. Adam is an organizational psychologist. He's a best-selling author. And on a personal note, he's a friend. And my Ted talk mentor. We talk all about the topic of potential.

What is potential? Is potential someone's ability to notice potential when you see your kid do something amazing? Or have we been thinking about potential in totally the wrong way? I promise you my discussion with Adam will leave you with a new perspective about what potential really is and how to bring it out in your kid. More after this. We're busy parents and even though we know we should prioritize ourselves, to this. Ritual. They're essential for women vitamin. Amazing. I'm filling my nutrient gap with

nine key nutrients like vitamin D and omega-3s and just two daily pills. And ritual delivers to my doorstep every month. So easy. I also trust it. Not just because it's clinically backed, but because it has clean, high quality ingredients. Ritual is transparent. What's on the label is what's in it. And you know where everything came from. We deserve this. You deserve this. And you can get started with 40% of your first month. Just visit ritual.com slash good inside and your 40% discount will automatically be applied to your order. Even that part is easy. I want to make sure you know about my upcoming live, deeply-feeling kid workshop. It is Wednesday, November 15th, 11 a.m. Eastern, and if you can't make that time, no worries, it is also available async.

I have gotten so many questions from parents who ask, the deeply-feeling kid description and course seems perfect for my kid, but my kid is nor divergent. My kid is ADHD. Is it still for me? I can say with certainty. Yes. There is so much overlap between kids with ADHD and kids who are DFKs.

They both are oriented towards sensory stimulation. They shut down when they need help and typical parenting strategies content to escalate things. I know with my deeply feeling kid workshop you're going to get an approach that makes you say, oh my goodness, this is my kid, and then you're going to get a set of strategies that actually work. I can't wait to see you there. So you just wrote another book, congratulations. Thank you. And this one feels different from your others. I mean, even just the title, Hidden Potential.

And you tell me you correct me, but I feel like your belief is that everyone has hidden potential. And your latest book is just kind of about how to help unlock it. And so I'm curious what made this topic come to mind for you. Why write this? Why now? What was going on in your life? Yeah, I do believe everyone has hidden potential. And I think it's a travesty that many people never discover it or develop it. And I think sometimes that happens because we doubt ourselves. So that would be imposter syndrome.

Other times it happens because other people doubt us. And that's when you end up feeling like an underdog. And the way that we respond to feeling underqualified or underestimated often limits our growth. And that, I mean, that just, that hurts to watch that happen as a psychologist. It hurts to watch that happen as a parent, as a teacher, as a colleague, as a friend,

and I feel like I've watched potential squandered all around me. I've also, Becky, been incredibly fortunate to benefit from having coaches and mentors who saw more potential in me than I've also, Becky, been incredibly fortunate to benefit from having coaches and mentors who saw more potential in me than I saw in myself. And I wanted to write this book to pay forward the lessons I learned from them. So I've been thinking a lot over the past few years about what do we know in psychology that would be helpful for everyone to understand. And the more I thought about this question,

the more I realized, this is actually, in some ways, the story of hidden potential is the arc of my life. I mean, I honestly, I wrote this book because I was told I couldn't write. I was figured it was time to change that narrative. When were you told that? Like your early years later on? When I arrived in college, was time to change that narrative. When were you told that?

Like your early years later on? When I arrived in college, the first thing I did as a new freshman at Harvard was take the required writing test. And I failed. I was told that I would be best off in a remedial writing course, which was known as writing for people who spoke English

as a sixth language and for jocks. And that was kind of devastating. Here, here I am already feeling like an imposter. I don't belong at Harvard. What if I'm the one mistake? And then they tell me I can't write. And I think this is my sixth book. I am certainly not as good of a writer as I aspire to be, but I feel like I've gotten pretty good. I've gotten to help a lot better than I was then. And I guess I had hidden potential that got unlocked through the last couple decades. And I feel like most of the things I'm proud of went that way. Well, there's so many things there. First of all, I think there's a message. Even in college, right, you're, I don't know, you're 18. I'm sure the same thing is true for us now, those of us who are older than 18. There still could be hidden potential. But I also want to end

up talking to you about our kids, because when I was reading your book, I feel like that came up over and over and over. This kind of, I think sometimes pressure, we feel almost as apparent when you see potential in your kid. And sometimes our efforts to bring it out can almost, you know, stifle it at least temporarily. Like you said, it's never too late. Kids can keep doing things and, you know, changing course. But I want to go back to your story before we do that.

So you're getting this message of you're a bad writer. You should be in a remedial course. Here you are, you know, a handful of years after your age of 18, a prolific writer, and I think most people who know you would say an amazingly clear, powerful writer, what helped you get from point A to point B? How did this hidden potential become more and more known? Well, thank you. I will try to live up to that. I think the big lesson for me that I guess didn't crystallize until I sat down to write this book was that, you know, I thought I thought I was being evaluated on my cognitive skills. How well do I structure an argument?

How convincing is, you know, the point that I'm making, but actually what drove my growth ended up being a set of character skills that I developed. And I know we're going to talk a lot about this with kids, but for me, what that meant was basically, so I had this choice. They said, look, we're not going to force you to take the remedial writing class. But just so you know, no one who's ever gone straight into the regular writing after doing this poorly has ever gotten an A. And you're probably going to get a C-plust. And I'm like, no, I don't want that on my transcript. So I had to make this tough choice of what will I do.

And I decided that I would rather be somebody who takes on challenges than somebody who shies away from them. And I said, I'm gonna skip the remedial class. I'm gonna embrace the discomfort of potentially doing poorly in the class. I'm gonna become a human sponge and learn everything I can about how to write.

And I'm gonna reject the pressure to be perfect and say, you know what, if I get a B in writing, at least I took on the challenge and I'm gonna grow a lot through that. And that was pretty pivotal. You ended up leaving in so many different things from your book into your response, which is so valuable for people to know

because you really do explain that process and you really break it down. So you dropped this, but I want to come back. Skills of character, I think most people are listening, say, like, I know what those words mean, but I've never actually heard those things together. So can you explain? Yeah, I've actually completely changed my view of character in the last few years. So I used to think about it as virtue. I guess, you know, I was an Aristotelian in saying that character is a habit, it's a set of

principles that you live by. And one of the things that psychologists and economists have learned over the past decade is that character is not just a matter of well, it's a question of skill. So the real challenges around character are, can you put your principles into practice? If you're a procrastinator by personality, can you override that tendency when you need to deliver on a deadline for somebody you care about? If you're a shy introvert like me, can you put your character skills into action

to stand up on stage and educate and entertain a group of students? Those are actually skill questions, more than well questions. Will will maybe get you to your computer or get you to show up on stage, but to deliver on those goals? That's actually, you know, it's a can do question,

not a will do question so much. It's a know how challenge. And so I think what we're really missing is, is a set of skills that allow us to say, okay, these are the principles I stand for. How do I make sure I stand by those on a difficult day? And what's the skill of character that you feel like most people

are probably like working to build or would benefit from developing? So I actually just collected some data on this. I didn't have the data when the book had to go to press, but now I do. So we launched a hidden potential quiz that I wrote trying to use a combination of psychometrics and also a little bit of fun.

And we've had over 38,000 people take it in the past month. And I've found that the character skill that most people are struggling with of the ones that I've studied is being an imperfectionist, which I would define as having the discipline to know when it's important to aim for the best and when it's okay to accept flaws and mistakes.

Easier said than done. Seriously, just to break that down because there is like a multiplicity you're holding at once. I think people here wait. The character skill, the skill of character, I might need to build is a tolerance for my own imperfection. That is going to help bring out my potential and achieve more. Just connect those dots, because I see you nodding.

I think you're like, yeah, that's exactly it, but it sounds on the surface counterintuitive. Yeah, I think you just captured it really well. So, once I call a just study perfectionism, they find that it can stunt our growth. And in fact, I think if perfectionism were a medication, it would come with a huge warning label. It would say warning may cause stunted growth.

Because what happens to kids, and this is true for adults too, when they start striving for perfection is they think any flaw is unacceptable. And so then they only try things that they know they're going to ace. And that means their comfort zone gets narrower and narrower. They stop taking risks. They stop seeking out challenges. They don't put themselves in new and uncomfortable situations. And that limits their learning quite a bit. And so the idea here is to say, you have to be comfortable

enough with making mistakes and with failing to put yourself in those new situations, to treat an obstacle in front of you not as a barrier, but as a crucible moment that's going to test and and develop your capabilities. And that's going to, you know, test and develop your capabilities. And that's part of how you reach your potential. Yes. I want to give a concrete example of this with my daughter. So during COVID times, she was home doing school right on Zoom. She was like kindergarten Zoom was like the worst, the worst thing. Right. So stressful. And she was working on writing, okay? And she at the time definitely had some perfectionistic, you know, kind of tendencies. And she was reading already. And

so the struggle was when she wrote something, she knew she spelled it wrong because she could read it and say, that's not right, but she didn't know how to do it correctly. And so I watched her write a word, and she was supposed to write a sentence and erase it and try to write the word again and erase it. And it was so painful, right? And here's where I think that duality of imperfection and perfection can kind of come together. I was like, okay, so she likes to be quote, good at things.

Let me use that to her benefit. So I said to her, I said, look, I just wanna tell you something, you're in kindergarten, and this is serious. You're really not supposed to know how to spell. I'm just telling you, you're really not. And if you spell too many words, right, I just want to be honest, I'm going to tell your teacher

and your teacher's probably going to talk to you. And you're not really doing your job as a kindergartener. And so I'm going to walk out of the room. And I know you like to do a good job at things. I know that's the type of person you are. So when I come back, I know you like to do a good job at things. I know that's type of person you are. So when I come back, like, I just hope you've done a good job. And like, there's really not too many words that are spelled correctly because if not me and Ms. Gopal are definitely going to have a discussion. And I watched out of her, like, eyes light up in this way. And it really was, I could cry like the first time after

days of struggle and stress where she actually completed a sentence, right? And of course, the irony is now she's doing more. She's learning more. She's also learning her struggle is actually like a beautiful part of her process to be able to bring out her potential of writing. And I think that like turning that narrative was so key for her. That's such a great Dr. Becky wisdom drop because it's the exact opposite of what every parent's impulses.

My instinct in that situation is to say, don't worry about making mistakes, you'll get it right eventually. But that only, I mean, it's so hard to deliver that message without your kid feeling like, but I need to get it right. And that's the message I forget that I'm conveying is, all right, these mistakes are, they're problematic. And so you have to make them go, wait. As opposed to, I just want you to keep getting better.

And I guess this is what I've, I guess what I've learned from the the research on perfectionism. So Thomas Kern and his colleagues find that perfectionism has increased over time across the US, Canada, the UK. And it seems to be in part not just due to social media, but you could track it even a generation before there was social media, the spike. And two of the strong predictors of the rise in perfectionism are escalating parental expectations and an increase in harsh criticism from parents. So parents are expecting kids to be flawless and then really reaming them when they don't live up to those standards. And that can create a very vicious cycle where kids feel like, you know, in addition to the kind of the narrowing of competence

that we talked about, kids end up just feeling inadequate constantly. And that leads to depression, anxiety, burnout. This is all well documented, of course. And so I love your model as an alternative to say, hey, actually, you're already ahead. You're not even supposed to know how to do this. Right. I always say about my kids, I don't know who said this to you, is like the thing I hope

they're really good at is I hope they're really good at struggling. Like that's the thing. I hope they're excellent at it. And they're like, you know, to the point where like when they're young, I always think like we do to some degree like brainwash our kids so we can actually use that for their benefit. So I remember when my kids were young doing a puzzle and having a hard time and I was like, oh, this is so tricky.

Good thing you're a kid who loves tricky things and they were kind of like, oh, I am a kid who loves tricky things. And like they would say at times, like this is really hard. I love hard things, right? And I feel like we think about potential as pure genius ability, but that's not the potential you're talking about.

So can you explain that difference? Yeah, when I think about potential, what I'm interested in is your capacity to grow. Yes. And that depends much more on your motivation and the opportunities you have to learn than it does on your raw talent. Whether you think about that as intelligence or athletic ability or being a musical prodigy, those starting points do not determine the distance you can travel. And I think that the parents think about this often backward, unfortunately. Well, I think sometimes those kids, and I've said this about the kids in my family and kids,

you know, families I've consulted with, the kid who has all this, quote, raw, you know, IQ, hi, such a high, a Q where they really are playing the drums at age three in a way that we look and we're like, wow, that's really crazy amazing Those are the kids I worry about I worry about those kids, right? Because they get told so early This is who you are you are perfect. You are quote exceptional, right? That is so limiting for growth because it's so much pressure It is and it also It really stifles their creativity. So there's some evidence to suggest that child prodigies

rarely grow up to become adult geniuses when it comes to creative breakthroughs. Mm-hmm. And, you know, I think it's a cruel thing to do to a kid to say, okay, you have this, you know, this impressive aptitude. And so we're going to teach you to memorize a Mozart sonata or, you know, to, to know all the digits of pi, but they don't ever learn to think for themselves. And so they've, they've mastered the rotability to produce somebody else's work, but not to imagine and dream up something of their own.

And, you know, I, I don't want to put all the blame on parents. You know, this is a challenge for teachers too. There's some evidence that the most creative kid in a classroom is the least likely to be the teacher's pet. Yes. Because, you know, they're constantly going off script and not following directions. They're not so people pleasing those creatives, you know? No, like, no. And so, you know, I think sometimes teachers inadvertently

wanting to get the whole classroom on the same page, you know, end up standing in the way of, you know, kids flourishing and tinkering and experimenting. But I think to, I guess to go back to the point about potential, I think one of the things we want to do is we want to invest in teaching kids character skills early. And that's exactly what you're doing when you normalize struggle. If you teach your kids, hey, you're somebody who loves a challenge.

That's allowing them to approach the next impediment in their path with enthusiasm, with gusto, with curiosity as opposed to seeing that as a threat to their ego or their competence. Not much matters more than helping our kids develop confidence. And the way I see it, confidence comes from watching yourself. Work hard. Tap into your creativity. And do things you might not always do.

So, if confidence is where we want our kids to get to, what is a tool to get them there? Well, KiwiCo is a tool to develop confidence. Each month, my kid gets a box delivered right to them, with a hands-on project designed to spark creativity and engage problem solving. But my kids don't know this is what's happening. They just see it as a form of play. I've watched all my kids love their KiwiCo crates, because the projects cater to all types

of kids, kids who like science or sensory play or or games, or geography. I love that KiwiCo is a win for kid fun and a win for long-term confidence. And now, you can get your first month free on any crate line at KiwiCo.com slash Dr. Becky. That's your first month free on any line at k-i-w-i-c-o.com slash drbecky. Your kids ask questions like, what's a recession? Or why do we have to pay rent? Maybe you wonder about these things too.

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And I think that's probably on Parents Mind 2. So, okay, potential isn't just inability. It's my kids capacity to grow. How do I help my kid become more motivated to grow? Well, I think my favorite way to think about this is to say, like, the person most capable of motivating your kid is definitely not you as a parent. I mean, there's a wall there where,

I mean, how many times I've seen this with our kids, I know you've seen this many times as well, how many times do you just get a psychological reactance response where they just do the opposite of what you wanted, just because they don't wanna be told what to do by their parent when if it was a teacher they admired or a mentor or a coach that they looked up to, the same message would have landed very

differently. So, I think, I guess I would say a little bit of humility is required at the start to say that you're very status as their parent sometimes just qualifies you from motivating them. I think that's right. That motivation, I mean, it feels like pressure to kids, right? Because kids know what we're invested in, right? They know what we ask questions about.

That shows them our values, right? And so it's hard to ask too many questions to your kid without them thinking, oh, this really matters to my dad. And so basically they're saying, I need to be this way. And then they are overloaded with pressure, which can get in the way of motivation. Exactly. So then what does help a kid feel motivated? Well, so you want to help them uncover their own motivation.

So I've become a big fan of what I've come to think of as the coach effect, which is basically the core finding is that if you want your kid to do something, instead of giving them advice and encouragement, you should actually ask them to advise and encourage someone else. And that can build their own motivation and confidence because they realize I already have the knowledge I need. And I'm excited to put that into practice. So a moment where I did this by accident was when I was getting ready to get my first TED Talk, I was terrified.

Becky, it was kind of the opposite of how you seemed like in a few days before TED. You were so calm and collected, you knew you were gonna crush it. Fake news, fake news. No, I mean, I was there. I can vouch for this personally. I watched you, I'm like, okay,

that is masterful emotion regulation and true professionalism. So yeah, I was not that. I was freaking out. And I thought I'd been on a lot of stages by that point and I'd gotten over my stage fright, but the Ted stage was a whole nother level. So a few weeks beforehand, I think I was pacing around, practicing my talk,

wanting to make sure I had every word memorized, you know the drill. So our oldest daughter, Joanna, was was watching me and I think she was eight at the time. And she started making fun of me because she said I move like a muppet sometimes and like I just looked like a goofball. And I told her I was really nervous and I asked her for advice. I said, what should I do? And she said, well, you should find a smiling face in the audience. And that will call me down. I was like, great advice from any age, but especially for an eight year old.

So I asked a couple of people I knew to sit in the front rows and I locked eyes with one of them early in the talk. And I still, I still think I sounded a little of people I knew to sit in the front rows and I locked eyes with one of them early in the talk and Yeah, I still I still think I sounded a little bit like Darth Vader when I was breathing I went through the talk when I rewatch it now, which is excruciating but it went fine. All things considered it was I think it was about as good as I could have done at the time so a few weeks later Joanna's super shy at the time and Yeah, I was wanting to motivate her to come out of her shell.

And she's got a school play coming up. And I can tell she's really nervous. So instead of trying to motivate her, I asked her what advice she gave to me. And she remembered that she knew the answer. She had already an insight about what to do. And I saw her get on that stage and lock eyes with Alice and me. And just like she came to life.

She was beaming. She seemed comfortable and it was so powerful to watch her motivate herself through giving advice to me. And I guess what I learned from that experience is we know, of course, that we want to support our kids and we want to show them unconditional love. We forget that they also need to feel relied on, not just that they can rely on us.

And I think one of the best ways to motivate a kid is to show them that you rely on them and you trust them to motivate somebody else, right? Or to advise somebody else and that's where they often discover their own confidence and competence. Sorry, that was a really long answer. No, there's so many things that makes me think about.

I mean, this is just a new thought that I'm having right now is the whole idea of potential, right, when you're now the expert on me, but is that it's like in someone, right? And so we don't bring out potential as a parent by putting it into our kid and then taking that back out. That was just ours. It's just like a transfer, right?

And so if you think about potential, it comes from the baseline idea and then you and I are actually very similar in this that it's inside, right? I talk about there's like goodness inside. There's potential inside and we have to help a kid access it. But that is actually a very different framework than having the thing and needing to give it to them.

Right? Bob, you just, you just captured something that frankly, it's implicit in the book. And it did not hit me until you just said it. Like potential is not something that you create. It's something you unleash. Yes. Oh, I have the chills. It is.

I cannot believe where were you when I was writing this book back? I don't. That's a good line. You got to get it back into the book. I know. I'll have to get it into the paperback. But it's so interesting because throughout the book, I talk about unlocking and unleashing potential, but I never made that explicit

that it's not something that you can induce in somebody else, it's something that you have to unearth in them. Yes, and you know, something I think about a lot is in any system or relationships, so certainly me and my kid, right, any two people, there's only a hundred percent of a quality to go around, stay with me, okay?

So let's say the quality is motivation. The more I own it, the more my kid will have less of it. Because if I'm owning their motivation, inherently there's only 100%, and so the more I say things like, did you do your homework, did you do your homework, did you do your homework by tomorrow, you need to do, okay, I now have 100% of the motivation

for my kid to do their homework. It is no wonder they have 0% like you can't get to more than 100. And I've learned this with my kids where even forget homework, like I remember when my son's room just like always had his towel on the floor and it just bugged me. I was like, do you not see this?

Like what, right? And I remember saying him for a while, like pick up your towel, pick up your towel. And like, right, now I have the idea to pick it up. I have the words to pick it up. It's no wonder my son isn't learning because he has 0% of that that I've taken 100. Right? I remember thinking number one, to some degree, we're always trying to work ourselves out of a job. So what I'm doing is not helping me do that. Number two, I remember this 100% thing and I just said to him, hey, what would you need to do to remember

to pick up your towel? Like what literally, like let's just make it like it's a concrete thing, like, cause at your responsible kid, and I don't know, maybe you don't see it, you're not thinking of it, like what would you need to do to jog your memory? And right away, he's like, I don't know, like, see a note.

And I was like, oh, where would you put that note? And he was like, I don't know, like, right, right now where he always drops his towel. And I was like, oh, I wonder if that's the best place or if there's more visible place. He goes, oh, I don't know, maybe, like, buy my door. And I was like, oh, that's a great idea. And then he ended up writing in his own handwriting. Again, I don't want to take that percent away. Pick up my towel, putting it out his door,

and nine times out of 10, he started picking up his towel like you said. Like there was a skill missing, right? And the more I own that skill, why would he tap into his potential if I was taking 100% of that for him? This framing is so powerful of saying, okay, I want my kid to own a larger percentage of the

knowledge and the motivation. Yes. Never thought about it that way. Okay, you've just given me, you know, it's funny, I've sometimes complained about what we do after we write books. Actually Glenn and Doyle put it best when she said, like, why do I have to say words about the words I've already written? That resonated. But I have a response now because you get to learn new things from the people who read and interview you. And this is a great moment of that. Yeah. I think

you're onto something really powerful. And I guess that maybe the takeaway for me is that if you're going to unlock potential rather than trying to instill it, then the place to start is to say, I want my kids to be responsible for what their goals are and how they learn. Yes. And I think that framework, I'm even like, I'm close my eyes, you seem like the visual of there are things blocking their potential. And I'm like an excavator with them,

trying to figure out what those things are. So maybe I remove some, they remove some. But what you were saying with your daughter, to me, is the most beautiful part of parenting, is like, you watch your kid have the aha moment. Like, you can't manufacture that when you give it to them. When you say to your daughter, hey, you could find someone in the front row

and lock eyes with them, and that would make you less nervous. Like, I guess you'd be like, oh, thanks, dad, like, and she probably won't even do it because it feels annoying because it's her dad's idea. But either way, what doesn't happen, like, my guess is you remember the way she looked when she came up with an idea for you.

And I wonder in terms of when you're saying potentials, like, your guess is you remember the way she looked when she came up with an idea for you. And I wonder in terms of when you're saying potentials like your capacity to grow. Like I have to believe every time your body manufactures the, uh-huh, I just discovered a new idea within me moment that that is our capacity to grow the more of those moments you have. Yes. Yes. I love that. I think it's interesting because at some level,

I'm trying to think of how to best capture this. I guess what I would say is it seems to me that where we screw this up the most is where we think we already know the answer. And this is why it's so often backfires when parents coach their kid in the sport they play. Yes. Where do you see there?

Because I actually got so many questions about parents and intensive sports. It's a whole scene, right? Yeah, I mean, I think if you're gonna coach your kid's sports team, the best thing you can do is coach them in a sport you know nothing about because then you're learning it together and your kid can teach you about it.

Well, do you think it's funny? I have often said like on this aquafield you watch parents like, you know, unfulfilled dreams, you know, just to act themselves out on their children, you know, but maybe what it is is it's their sense. Now I feel sad of their still hidden potential that they regret or feel bad about. And that's kind of acted out on their giz. I think that's really poignant. I think, yes, the research on this talks about parental over identification and over

involvement. And the thesis is, and there's good evidence for it, that parents are defining themselves in terms of their kids' success. And I always want to sit those parents down and say, your kid is not a reflection of your success. You should not define your worth as a parent by what your kids achieve. You should define it by who they become and the character they demonstrate. And by the way, if you help them build those character skills,

they're going to achieve more anyway. But I don't want to have to charge and horse this. I want you to care about the values they live by and the skills they learn independent of the results they produce or the status they attain. But I think you've highlighted another factor here, which is probably motivating a lot of the same parents, but also feeling another group of parents, which is, yeah, they have potential that never got realized. I mean, it's amazing how many people have these regrets

from high school, right? I should have stuck with that sport. I shouldn't have quit the piano. I should have tried debate. I should have tried to bait. I should have studied abroad. Then I would have actually learned the foreign language that I stumbled my way through. And yeah, I think a lot of parents are maybe living those shattered dreams vicariously through their kids. And I think one of the thing your book also gives like a roadmap for is it's actually so

empowering as a parent say, okay, like that potential that I feel like hasn't been fully realized, that's real for me. I feel that that that seems to be in me and actually like maybe my best chance of working that through isn't putting on my kid. Like I'm still alive and kicking, like, okay, maybe I'm not living abroad for six months, but I don't know, maybe I am with my family, or maybe I am taking a language class,

or maybe I am finding an adult basketball league, or, right, and realizing again, that that potential is still in them, right? It's still there. It's not dead just because they're however years old. Yeah, I think the hard part about that is, like with sports in particular, there's a ceiling or there's a critical window

where you feel like you're past your prime and you can't do it, but you could switch to another sport. You could choose another activity. I'm like, okay, anybody who feels like they miss their window in basketball, like there's tennis and there's ping pong and now there's pickleball for you.

Ha ha ha. Exactly, exactly. Well, okay, one last question, because I imagine people listening to this thinking, oh no, oh no, with my kids. Like, I feel like maybe I've, you know, unintendedly, you know, kind of squashed their potential or I've put on a lot of pressure

or I've maybe I've taken motivation away from them because I do kind of so powerfully own it for them. What are your thoughts about that? What next for those of us listening, thinking that? You're the parenting expert. Well, is the potential still in there? Is that what what you would say yeah, of course it's there. I mean that that's why though Like it it often starts to emerge when like when kids go off to college and they have independence for the first time or when they you know they they change to a new teacher or a new coach who sees something in them or has a

slightly Less a new teacher or a new coach who sees something in them or has a slightly less authoritative style. Yeah, and I would add just bringing it full circle to Ted and my love of repair that what an amazing moment to say to your kid, like I listened to something, it really made me think and I think you can say a bunch of things to say, I don't think I always give you credit for like all the things you really can do on your own or I think sometimes I put on a bunch of things to say, I don't think I always give you credit for all the things you really can do on your own, or I think sometimes I put on a lot of pressure from you

and that's something I'm gonna do less of, right? Just something really simple like that can be so relieving for a kid. Yeah, and I think I would go even a step further, which is something I know you're a fan of, and I am too, which is, like, this is a moment to ask kids for advice and say, like, I did this recently with our kids and said, I know I've, like, I've been repeating this behavior over and over again,

and I'm doing it because I'm not aware of it in the moment. Like, can you, can you let me know when it's happening? I love that. And in a way, they're helping us build skills, the skills we need, right? Because we have the potential to be less authoritarian or less controlling or to step away a little bit more. And it's true sometimes sometimes we need our kids help to like point those moments out. Are you saying that even bad parents have hidden potential?

I am saying all parents are good inside and that, you know, opening ourselves up to the idea that we all have the capacity to learn. There's no parent I know who wouldn't say parenting is one of the hardest thing I've ever done. And so yeah, there are a lot of opportunities to learn and grow. Adam, this was so amazing to talk with you. I feel like I always think new thoughts. And that's like the most fun part of talking to someone. Same. I learned so many things from hearing your questions and your reactions, and I really feel

like I'd be a better parent if I talk to you more. Well, let's get out of the encounter. I think that needs to happen. All right, thank you, Adam. Thank you for having me. Thanks for listening. To share a story or ask me a question, go to goodinside.com-podcast. You could also write me at podcastatgoodinside.com.

Parenting is the hardest and most important job in the world. And parents deserve resources and support so they feel empowered, confident, and connected. I'm so excited to share good inside membership. The first platform that brings together content and experts you trust with a global community of like valued parents. It's totally game-changing. Good inside with Dr. Becky is produced by Jesse Baker and Eric Newsom at Magnificent Noise. Our production staff includes Sabrina Farhi, Julia Nat and Kristen Muller. I would also like to thank Eric Obelsky, Mary Panico and the rest of the Good Inside team. And one last thing before I let you go. Let's end by placing our hands on our hearts and reminding ourselves, even as I struggle,

and even as I have a hard time on the outside, I remain good inside. you