Good Inside with Dr. Becky - You're Not The Boss of Me!

Episode Date: June 6, 2023

It's time to reframe defiance. When our kids don't listen to us or are being "defiant" by doing the complete opposite of what we've asked them to do, it's important to remember that they are still good kids. They are good kids who need firm and loving boundaries, connection, and to feel a little powerful on occasion. This week, Dr. Becky chats with a mom struggling with her son's "defiant" behavior and who's looking for a way to reconnect and repair with him.Join Good Inside Membership: bit.ly/3MgzbouFollow Dr. Becky on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drbeckyatgoodinsideSign up for our weekly email, Good Insider: https://www.goodinside.com/newsletterOrder Dr. Becky's book, Good Inside: A Guide to Becoming the Parent You Want to Be, at goodinside.com/book or wherever you order your books.For a full transcript of the episode, go to goodinside.com/podcastToday’s episode is brought to you by Hanna Andersson: Two things are true: Summer is amazing and summer is stressful. One way to manage summer stress is to pair fun and adventure with predictability. This might be as simple as laying out your kids’ favorite swimsuits the night before a big beach day…but it’s also knowing those suits will hold up for your kids all summer long. That’s why Hanna Andersson’s swimwear is a go-to in Dr. Becky's family. Their fabric is fast-drying (less complaints of “Ugh I’m still wet!”), holds its shape without stretching (no more sagging suits), and blocks 97% of harmful UVA/UVB rays (less guilt about being in the sun!). And this year, they have the cutest selection of prints—meaning they’ll become quick favorites for your kids, too. Get 25% off your first order with code GOODINSIDE at hannaandersson.com.

I'm Dr. Becky and this is good inside. He keeps bringing the doorbell and I said, please stop bringing the doorbell and he looks at me and you know, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. And it's not a big deal, but at the end of a day of like a refusal over everything and defiance over almost everything, it gets really grating. All right, if you're like most parents, you've probably experienced something like this.

I mean, maybe not the doorbell, but maybe you ask your kids to put on their shoes or clean up their toys or brush their teeth. And then instead of they're doing it, they look you dead in the eye and say, no. So you ask them again kindly, but they still don't listen. Maybe they run away or do the exact opposite of what you just asked them to do.

And then before you know it, you're in a power struggle and everyone's upset. If you're ready for less yelling and more cooperation, this episode's for you. I mean, let's be honest. That just means this episode's for you. I mean, let's be honest, that just means this episode is for everyone. We'll be back in a minute. Hey Sabrina. Hey. Hey.

So I've been thinking about toys recently. I don't want the toy to do that much of the work. I want the toy to inspire my kid to do the work. Because actually the toys that get really busy and do a lot of things, kids actually lose interest in so quickly. Oh, totally. There are certain toys that my kids have just played with

throughout the years. I have a six year old and a three year old. Like what? So I have these wooden blocks from Melissa and Doug. They're super simple. Just plain wooden, no color. And my kids love them. They're always building castles or like a dinosaur layer.

And then my oldest will tell my youngest to like decorate them after he's built this crazy cool structure. My go-to's are Melissa and Doug too. I feel like we have this ice cream scooper thing that my kids use when they were two. And then they used again when they were developing better fine motor skills. And then for my kind of four year old,

my seven year old still using it in imaginative play. I really only like talking about items and brands that we actually use in our own home and Melissa and Doug. I just don't know if there's any other brand I feel so good about naming the way that their toys actually inspire creativity and open-ended screen-free child-led play. It's just unmatched. And like what's honestly so exciting is to be able to offer everyone listening to this podcast, 20% off.

Visit MelissaAndUg.com and use code Dr. Becky20DRBECKY20 for 20% off your order. Melissa and Doug, timeless toys, endless possibilities. DRBECKY20 for 20% off your order. Melissa and Doug, timeless toys, endless possibilities. So what's on my mind is I have a four year old son, and I am very imperfectly trying to, you know, do gentle parenting, as best as I can with obviously a lot of hiccups and a lot of unlearning that I have to do. But in the last couple of months, I've noticed that my son kind of seems like defiant for

defiance to seek and says things like, no, I want to do, you know, I want to upset you, I want to, I want to upset you. I want to, those kinds of things. Of course, take a four-year-old seriously, but it's start some concerns about how I might rekindle our relationship or kind of work on our relationship a little bit so he doesn't have that kind of resentment. And then also just generally, what strategies I can use when it's like defiance, after defiance, after defiance, all throughout the day, I really start to get a short fuse at the end. So what strategies I can use to kind of manage that kind of behavior. So first of all, those words that your son says, I want to make you upset or I want to hurt you, right?

For some, these are words so many kids say, I actually think these are kind of things adults say sometimes too, sometimes we say it in our behavior we're not as bold maybe to just say it verbally. And actually I think over the course of our conversation, probably reflecting on how even me and you might express that in our own lives will probably give us a lot of insight

into what's actually going on for our kid, because these are the situations, right? You're here to say this, and our mind goes to, oh my goodness, my kid's a sociopath. Like he wants to hurt people. Like he wants people to be upset. And then we're picturing them in jail, and then we're so anxious, we feel like a horrible parent.

How did I raise a sociopath like 35-year-old? Right? And meanwhile, our kid is four, and we've kind of totally taken ourselves away from the moment, which gets in our way of actually helping them, helping ourselves, and then it's even more of a mess. So, I promise we're gonna kind of avoid that together. We're gonna think about a different pathway.

And maybe the best place to go next is can you really bring to life one example where he might say this, or maybe even where he actually did say this kind of the more detail the better so we can really get into it together? Yeah, I'll give two examples. So the first one is he had his grandparents visiting and I'm okay with some mess, but then when it becomes completely a disaster zone, I tell him that he has to put something away before he takes something out. And I guess he was playing with his grandmother in his playroom and just don't something. And his grandmother said, oh, they'll be annoyed. You know, your parents will might be annoyed to probably clean that up. And he said, I want them to be annoyed. And just said that very clearly. And she, you know, came to me and said, he says this, I think, you know, came to me and said he says this,

I think he really resets you guys and it kind of doesn't, there seems to be some issue with between you guys or maybe you're too hard on him, maybe whatever. Another example is just yesterday, we're coming back from a long day, birthday party, you know, lots of different activities. And he keeps bringing the doorbell. And I said, please stop bringing the doorbell. And he looks at me and, you know, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. And it's not a big deal.

But, you know, at the end of a day of like a refusal over everything and defiance over almost everything, it gets really grating. And just to make the like, he has very good days. So I'm not trying to say that, you know, he's always like this, but those days can be those days where he is kind of in a defiance mode could be very taxing and yeah, just make make my heart hurt because I'm like, should be on the same team and why don't you like me? Yeah, yeah. No, I hear that.

And just to bring another layer to this discussion, what were you like as a kid? Were you the kind of kid who was looking at your parent going ding-dong, ding-dong? I don't care what you say. Or just hearing that make you think, oh, back, you know, that was so not me. That would not have flown in my house or what?

Yeah, no. That's the exact opposite. In fact, it's so funny that you asked this question because when I was having some trouble with him, I called my dad and I said, Dad, was I like this? It's just like, maybe it's a personality temperament thing. I hear people talk about that all the time

and he said, no, you were notable in how well you followed the rules and how well you followed the instructions. But I thought to myself, oh, that's probably because you all And look, you're bringing a lot of depth even to that own reflection, right? Where I too was kind of a people pleasing kid, right? And I think a lot of us were especially a lot of us women, right? We were kind of the quote, good girl. And I say that in quotes because I think by the time we're adults, we all look at that phrase with a little bit of skepticism,

like what cost, right? Or how did I get that way? Right? I always think babies, you know, they never come out saying, okay, whatever you want, I'll just, you know, stop eating at 9 p.m. and start eating again at 9 a.m. because it seems to annoy you if I wake up in the middle of the night. That doesn't happen, right?

So we learn things, but also knowing Dana, knowing that you, or more people pleasing as a kid, is actually really useful in how you're going to approach your son because you have kind of opposite ends of the spectrum, right? You were raised in a way where probably you learned, who knows how? Maybe it was from punishment, maybe it's from harsh glares, maybe it was from your parents talking about, you know, how bad other kids were,

and you kind of learn, oh, I better not be like that. Right, so you learned, okay, what do my parents want from me and how can I be that? And then you're saying these examples with your son, our ones where essentially adults are saying, I would like X and he's saying, oh really, okay, then I'm gonna do Y. So he sees what you want and he does the opposite

where I'm guessing you didn't even need the instruction, you notice what people want and just maybe fell into line, right? So I think just as a start noticing, that's a big gap. No wonder this can feel triggering for me. No wonder this feels hard. Anytime we deal in life with someone who handles a situation, pretty polar opposite from ourselves, it brings up a lot. And so I just want to acknowledge that this is hard. And I think it says so much about you that you're willing to look at it and name it. And I can tell you're being really curious about it. Like, what is this really about?

I know I don't have a horrible kid. Something's going on. Let's get to the bottom of that. And so I just, I really do think we should take a moment to like give yourself credit for that curiosity. It's hard to be curious, especially when our kids are different. So let's start with the ringing the doorbell example because the first thing we want to talk about is boundaries.

Okay? Very often I found from my years in private practice, even before I was on Instagram, the parents had come to me saying these, you know, starts, my kid doesn't listen. They don't listen. And not only do they not listen, Dr. Becky, like they actually do the opposite of what I'm asking them to do. And then I hear examples, honestly,

the doorbell example is one of them, or I live in New York City. So I'd hear we go into the elevator, and I tell them, don't press the buttons, do not press all the buttons, and then they press every button. And so we live in floor 20, we're stopping at one, two, three, four. What is going on?

I say, don't throw your cup, and then they throw their cup off the table. So often when we see our kid as defiant or not listening, we are actually, as a parent, struggling to set boundaries. So let me use those examples, and then we'll come back, and I'm going to have you with me come up with a way to set a boundary So let me use those examples and then we'll come back and I'm going to have you with me come up with the way to set a boundary around the doorbell and I think we'll illustrate the difference. I have a son, my youngest, that child, not anymore, but first first four years, he would have hit every elevator button in the world if he was near. He's just like,

he experiments, he's kind of risk-taking in general, right? So he's that kind of kid temperamentally, as you were saying. I want you to hear the difference, don't press the button. Hey, hey, I said don't press the button. Versus, yeah, I'm standing between you and the buttons, I'm not gonna let you press those, sweetie. And then he lunges toward them and I say, yeah, I'm not gonna let you do that. We can do something else silly and fun

when we get to our apartment. Okay, let's go to the throwing the cup example. Hey, don't throw the cup, keep it on the table. Don't, don't, I see you shut down. I said, don't throw the cup. Versus, oh, I'm keeping my hand on this cup with you because it seems to be hard to not throw it. Once you show me a few times that you can have a cup and not throw it, I'll take away my hand for now. I'm going to help you drink it. What do you notice is the difference between those? I mean, the first, you know, obvious glaring one is that we're not going to be raising our voices with the laundry setting.

So we don't allow ourselves to get to that point. Stop there for a second. It's because that is so critical. When you set a firm and loving, not just, but as firm, boundary, you help yourself as a parent. Forget your kid. It happens to be good for them, but sometimes I forget the kids, just for us. It helps us not get to the point

where we're so frustrated, where then we end up yelling and then after we're like, oh, I wish I didn't yell, I don't wanna start the day that way. And I often would say that to parents in my practice. I'd say, you're kind of allowing your four-year-old to dictate your mood. Like, you're gonna trust your four-year-old to dictate your mood. Like, you're gonna trust your four-year-old to not press the elevator buttons.

Like, that just seems like a lot to put into your four-year-old. You're 40, you're 50, you're 35, all over the world. You're, let's take control over our mood, over our reactivity. So I think you're right, that's one big difference. Another, to me, big difference is starting with just clarity of our role. Like if I want my kid to not do something, I have to be sure my kid can't do something.

Again, I would never say to my kid, hey, if they were kind of impulsive, hey, don't run into the street, I'd probably just walk kind of to the side of them to make sure they didn't run into the street. I'd probably just walk kind of to the side of them to make sure they didn't run into the street. And so let's go over those two examples with the doorbell. Hey, we're don't ring the doorbell again.

Hey, don't, hey, hey, hey, I said don't ring the doorbell. Oh, right, and let me think my kid's so defiant. He did the opposite. What would be a way to set the boundary earlier so you don't get to that point. Yeah, hold his hand on the way up to the doorbell and be on the side of the doorbell so that he is not able to ring the doorbell. So kind of manage that from the beginning.

Yes, and look, and I want to be honest, because parents also listen to you like, oh, that seems like a lot of work. I think it can be work. You have to be a little more mindful of it. And then it can feel sometimes, like, I just wish my four-year-old wouldn't do it. Like, I wish I didn't have to. But when it comes to boundaries, we have to be a boundary for a kid before they can be that boundary for themselves. And what do I mean by a boundary? We all have urges to do ridiculous things. Like, if I really think about it, I would like to press all the elevator buttons, do ridiculous things. Like if I really think about it,

I would like to press all the elevator buttons, like it would just be funny. And as adults, we've learned to have an urge or have a funny thought, like, oh, it'd be pretty funny. If I took my cup and spilled water all over my husband, like, I might have that thought, and then I say, I'm gonna say, I'm not gonna do that.

And so that's a way of controlling my urge. Or in some ways, I have an urge and I put my own boundary around it. Before kids can put their own boundary around it. Before kids can put their own boundary around an urge, they actually have to experience over and over and over. Their urge being met with their parents' boundary. And then with their body learns as I have an urge and I remember a boundary, an urge, I remember a boundary and an urge, I remember a boundary, and then the urge and boundary kind of get close enough in time and space in their body's circuit

that then they can be their own boundary. And then you can say, hey, let's not ring the doorbell more than once. And it's not that they're now listening to you. It looks like listening on the surface, but what's really happened in their body is they've learned the association between having an urge and not acting on an urge because now they can be their own boundary.

And so, and you can add some levity to this, right? Yeah, I'm gonna hold your hand as we walk up and I know kids too. Like your four-year-old is not gonna say, mom, thank you for being such a sturdy leader. You knew I'd press it too many times and I really appreciate all the work you're putting in. No, he's not gonna say that. He's gonna say, let go of my hand, right?

And you can add some fun. Hey, let's spin around in a circle. Hey, let's wave our arms up and down. Hey, let's jump up and down five times and see if then someone opens the door, right? So there can be a fun element or you could just say, I know you don't want me to hold your hand. Listen, sweetie, until you show me that you're able to walk near a door and not press the doorbell a billion times, I am gonna hold your hand not because you're in trouble, not because you're a bad kid, because actually my number one job is to help

kind of keep you safe and make good decisions and right now that looks like keeping you further away from the doorbell, like just kind of very matter of fact, but I'm not frustrated because I haven't let myself get frustrated. For those of you who also have kids who ring the doorbell when you ask them not to, or maybe they keep watching their iPad after iPad time is over, or take snacks from the pantry

when you say no snacks before dinner, or just engage in any of those behaviors that make us think, why does my kid never listen to me? Why are they so defiant? I hope you check out the same set of workshops I ended up recommending to Dana when we spoke after the recording. In fact, maybe you'll end up finding each other on the platform and checking them out together. My two cents are to start with the listening workshop, which will increase cooperation

across the board, and then check out the a listening workshop, which will increase cooperation across the board. And then check out the problem behaviors workshop, which will give you a ton of, oh, I've never tried that before, strategies, to reduce acting out, defiance, hitting, rudeness, all of it. You can find them at goodinside.com or by following the link in show notes. Inside.com or by following the link in show notes. I think part of the issue for me also in why maybe my boundaries have become more self-conscious. I don't know if that's the correct term is I and this is maybe specific to me. I don't know how useful this is, but I feel like I'm the only one in the household that keeps boundaries.

My husband comes from more of her misive background, and he tries, but it's a lot of not keeping boundaries on his end. And so that's also, I think, part of the story for me and part of why I reached out is because, if I'm the one constantly making the boundaries, I feel like my son is associating me with like the cop in the household. And I think it's kind of, I don't know, at least I fear it's damaging our relationship. And that, yeah, that's like

other concern. So I'm so glad you've voiced that. And no way are you alone in feeling like I'm the only one who, and why do I feel like I'm putting in this've voiced that and no way are you alone in feeling like I'm the only one who and why do I feel like I'm putting in this effort to hold boundaries and then deal with the fallout? And it's exhausting. I mean it's exhausting, period, and it's definitely exhausting. And it can build resentment also if you're like, I also feel like I'm alone in that. So I have a couple of thoughts about that. First of all, and right, my kids are 5, 8, and 11, right? And what I would say in my relationship with my kids is setting boundaries and tolerating

the feelings they have because I've set boundaries. I really believe is the biggest relationship strengthener I've ever had with them. There's no reward for that in the moment. As I'm saying, our kids aren't saying, oh, mom, I love you so much. Thank you for not letting me ring the doorbell. But if you think about yourself Dana, right? If you think about yourself at a party, okay? And you're like at cocktail party and you're going around, I don't know, you go to every table and you like take the glasses

and throw them on the floor and smash them. And you're going to everyone you know and say nasty things to them. I hope you get her and I nobody likes you, okay? And then picture your partner, okay? Watching you do that. And how you feel about them later. And then in a different scenario, imagine your partner, even if they have to kind of picking you up and kind of saying like, we're going in the car, I'm buckling you in, we're, uh-uh. Like, I'm not going to let you kind of destroy the party and yourself.

And of course, in the moment, you wouldn't say, thank you. You'd probably be like, get off of me here. Why are you doing this? But I know maybe I can just speak for myself. I feel like when I came down from that moment, from whatever was going on, I'd feel really grateful that my partner kind of like stopped me from doing something that was really out of control. And even if it seemed enjoyable in the moment, definitely was from a dysregulated place. What do you think for you?

Yeah, yeah, of course. I'd feel appreciative that that person had like my best, my best at heart in, you know, in the long term. Yeah, so if you frame it that way, then that helps ease some of my anxiety, I think, around the relationship. And look, there's a difference in boundaries and control, right, like to me setting a boundary, I always think about this line. And I think I've said it to my kids

many times just to remind myself, like my number one job is to keep you safe. I always say that. And they always say that. They're like, what's mommy's number one job and she always say to keep me safe. And I think about safety emotionally and physically. But if I think about, I don't know, my kid,

which is true, my youngest wants to go to bed every night in some like full-out sports gear, okay? Not a helmet, but like a sports outfit, not pajamas. I'm not like exerting a boundary there. Like there's no, to me, there's no safety concern there. If I think about my child, let's even say this, never cleaning up, because that was the other example. Obviously, there's no threat to having a messy house,

but I think about emotional safety. At the end of the day, cleaning up is about kind of taking care of your stuff. It's also about just doing something that's unenjoyable for long-term gain, which I personally think kids just have to do to grow up to be good people. Like you just have to sometimes do unenjoyable tasks for the benefit of yourself and your relationships. And so helping my kid learn the skills to clean up, even when they seem to not want to.

I actually do think that falls in general, kind of, quote, emotional safety because it helps a kid relate to their frustration. But as you reflect on those boundaries, I think it's helpful for you to kind of see, okay, where am I really doing this from a place of helping my kid? And where might I be doing this to ease my own anxiety

or more from a place of control? And probably we wanna definitely do the former and probably ease up in the latter. And I think our kids feel the difference when I say, and I do this to my kids too, you have to clean up right now because I'm like looking at this room and they're like, I'm going to take a shower.

I'm like, no, clean up. That's just my own anxiety, like vomiting on my kids. But when I say, look, we talked about cleaning up the room before you guys went to bed. And you know, whatever it is. And like, we just, we have to get that done. Let's think about a fun way to do it. But taking care of our stuff is really important.

And if you don't end up cleaning up, sweetie, I probably will put a lot of those toys away tomorrow because it's just not in line with the way we play. Now let's figure out a way to get this done and have a fun and have some music, etc. So when you think about your relationship with your kids, I think that that fork really, really makes a difference. Like yes, nobody loves when our own anxiety is being played out in our kid. But setting boundaries is as important to your relationship

with your kid as validating their feelings. It's a form of connection. That's really fantastic to hear it in kind of that kill form, I appreciate. And the last thing I'll say, Dean, on that before we get back to this example because I think there's more to say there is, this is I think a really important conversation

for anyone to have, especially if they have a partner or a co-parent. To say, hey, look, we're on the same team. This is not a blaming conversation. I do feel like we sometimes fall into the roles of like good cop bad cop. Like you're the fun parent, you're the like, uh, mommy's, you know,

a little anxious, let's just have fun. And then that leaves me sometimes as a little bit of bad cop, like laying down the rules. And I have found that one of the most kind of powerful and kind of fun exercises to do around this is to say to a partner after that, look, one of the things I think that could be interesting today

is let's like reverse rules, just for today. I'm gonna be no rules apply, ice cream for breakfast, nothing has to be cleaned up, because I'm sure you would like me to loosen up sometimes. Well, one of the things that will allow me to loosen up today is if I know you are kind of owning, though like some things have to get done in a certain way once in a while part. And so let's change it up. It'll give us each a chance to kind of experiment

with the role the other one usually takes. And then tonight, we can kind of talk about it and see where we want to go from there. And so there's no blame, there's no shame, there's no like, you need to do this. You're not a good parent. There's actually like a little bit of a game around it because I'm sure your partner would love you

at some times to have quote fewer boundaries. And I'm sure your partner would love you at sometimes to have quote fewer boundaries and you would love your partner to have more boundaries. And so reversing that allows kind of the system to loosen up a little bit. Okay, the other thing I want to make sure we get to are these words. Like when our kid says to us, like, well, I want my parents to be upset or well, I want to make you annoyed, Like, what's really going on there? And so, walk me through this and you be, we're going to reverse roles for a second here, okay? So, let's say I always take out the garbage, okay, in my ass. And I feel

kind of annoyed about it or I feel resentful, right? And my partner says something to me like, you didn't take out the trash, you know, like I'm annoyed. And if I say to him, well, I want you to be annoyed. I want you to be annoyed. What am I really saying? I'm frustrated with this dynamic. Yeah, I think that's right, I'm frustrated.

There's no one right answer. I think another thing on brainstorming is, well, I want you to feel how I feel all the time. Like, I always go there and I'm annoyed and maybe if you feel the same way I feel, you'll understand. I think about this especially with kids because, I mean, honestly, I think adults do this too. Feelings are so confusing. Like, if you fall and scrape your knee and you're

in pain, you see blood. Someone else sees blood. They're like, oh, my goodness, Dana, you're hurt. Like, it seems real. And even if you don't have blood, like saying to someone, well, I skin my knee or they're like, oh, you okay? Right, like there's this acceptance of realness of physical pain. Feelings are so confusing. And I think for kids especially, and this is all unconscious, they often kind of think, well, in the less someone else feels the same way I feel,

that they won't believe that my feeling is real. When you skin your knee, you don't need your partner to skin their knee. You kind of know they get it. They know it hurts. And so to think about your son who's still so young, learning about feelings, oh, your parents are going to be annoyed if you don't clean up your toys. And I'm saying, well, I want them to be annoyed. I wonder if he's saying, like you said, well, I'm annoyed because I don't want to do it. But also, they won't understand how hard it is to be a four-year-old who wants to play and has to actually

clean up. They won't actually understand how hard that is unless they feel the exact same way. So I want them to feel upset, not because I'm a sociopath, okay? Almost because it's a very unsophisticated attempt at gaining empathy. That makes me sad. Because I feel like I should have allowed space for him to get that empathy in a different way. Maybe I pushed him in the wrong direction. I hear that, and I mean that's like, I don't think you are such a wonderfully thoughtful,

reflective parent. Your child is in gray hands. Like, I think often a skill we have to build with kids and isn't a skill that comes naturally, and it's often not a skill our parents had with us. So it's extra hard to learn is, I hear my child's words. Like, what are they really saying? And I'm sure you have this with your partner and your hardest moments, right?

Like often even as adults, we say to someone like, you're never home. You're always working and we really mean, I miss you. So us adults have a hard time translating. So of course it's hard to do it with our kids too. But I think when our kids say this, I want you to be upset. They mean I'm upset. They mean I want you to feel how I feel just so you understand. I also feel sometimes in these situations. Kids are saying, I want to feel powerful because as a kid I feel so controlled and so not powerful so much

that when I want to ring the doorbell over and over and I watch you get annoyed. It's not because, again, there's something wrong with me, but it's one way where I kind of know I'm my own person. I kind of do feel big and powerful because wow, just like ringing the doorbell seems to make my mom very, very upset. Like, I don't have the opportunity to be so impactful that often.

And I think those three translations for your son will be really helpful. Like, the first one, just I am feeling the same way he says, you want to see it feel. Second, this is a very unsophisticated way of trying to be believed or gain empathy, and I'm looking to feel powerful. And if we think about those three things, we can even go further Dana

because my kids have said these things too, a line that I think is really helpful in those situations to come back with, like, well, I want you to feel upset. It's even just saying, like, I know how upset you are. And I believe it, even if I don't feel it myself, I don't have to feel as mad as you feel. For me to know that your mad is very real, I believe it.

And when he's older and he graduates, which he will, to, I hate you, you're the worst mom in the world when you just say to him, like, sorry, I just said you can't have 401 cookies. Like, you literally just had 400, right? And he's like, I hate you. You're the worst mom in the world

to really imagine he is so upset. And he's really saying to you, do you believe how upsetting this is to me? Do I have to say something that's a dagger to your heart? That feels the same way to you, is it feels like a dagger to my heart when you say I can't have this cookie, which it might to a six-year-old.

So I think that's just always useful. And then on the powerful front, when my kid is in that stage of it, seems like they're saying no, we're kind of, quote, defying me over and over. Number one, I'll go to the boundaries, and I said a boundary sooner, but I always feel like my kid is kind of quote-to-fine me over and over. Number one, I'll go to the boundaries, and I said a boundaries sooner. But I always feel like my kid is kind of saying,

like, I am begging to feel powerful and impactful in this world. And if you don't give me other opportunities, I'm just going to find it at like really in our opportune moments, like checking out at a grocery store, ringing doorbells. And so, I don't know if you're in our membership, are you in the good inside membership?

No, not yet. All right, so one of my favorite kind of short videos there is called The Year in Charge Game. Probably one of the ones I reference the most, and I'll give you a preview of it, okay. The Year in Charge Game is like this, and I truly think every kid could benefit from it. So everyone listening, let's all do this with our kids today,

okay, and then the day after, we're all gonna be like, wow, why is everything good in the world? Why are there rainbows and butterflies and unicorns? So this is how it goes. You go up to your child and be like, wow, why is everything good in the world? Why are there rainbows and butterflies and unicorns? So this is how it goes. You go up to your child and you say, Hey, you know what I'm thinking about? Like, it's really annoying sometimes to be a kid. It can probably feel like, mom's telling me to do this,

and then she's telling me to do this, and I have to get dressed, and I've got my socks, and I have to leave the house, and now I have to be done with skin time, and I'm like, oh, so annoying, right? It can feel like adults are always in charge. Well, I'm going to set a timer. And for the next five minutes, you're in charge.

You're in charge. Now there's rules. I'm not going to buy anything and let me just say, Dana, I came up with these rules the hard way. Okay, from my own experience, my kids. I'm not going to eat anything. Okay, the disgusting things my kids have made, you know, Dora, and I'm like, no, no, no, and I'm not going to do anything dangerous. No buying, you know, and I'm like, no, no, no, and I'm not gonna do anything dangerous.

No buying, no eating, and nothing dangerous. But besides that, if you tell me to do something, I have to do it. And you can get your kids started. So I might say, listen, just, just please don't tell me to walk backward. Please, and if your son is like a normal child, what's he gonna say?

Go ahead, walk backwards, yeah. Walk back, and I'm like, no, you did not. You did not just say that. And then, oh, I don't wanna listen, but I guess I will. Right, and you can see how you're kind of building the skill our kid will need. And then I'd walk backwards, I'd quote bump into a,

ow, ow, I hit my elbow, I hope, please, please, just don't make me hop on one foot. Please, don't make me hot. And then he's gonna backwards, I'd quote, bump into a, ow, ow, I hit my elbow, I hope, please, please, just don't make me hop on one foot, please, don't make me hot. And then he's gonna say, hop on one foot. And the whole thing should be filled with laughter and you should resist. Because that's what kids do all the time, right? Resist, model, then maybe cooperating,

be funny about it. And I can still remember one time, where when my kids had take a shower, and I had just blow dried my hair that morning, which took 20 minutes. And in literally, I was like, no, I was like anything, anything. I just, I just, I just did that. And the visceral experience, I can still feel the memory of that moment. And how much I really didn't want a shower. And I really mean this. Like every time I ask my kid to do something,

they don't want to do, I feel like that memory comes back a little bit of just how annoying it is to be told you have to do something when you don't want to do it. And so number one, the year in charge game helps cooperation across the board. And I won't be surprised because I can play this tomorrow and tomorrow and play it, you know,

because he's saying I need to feel powerful and in control. But I also think as a parent, it really gives you an understanding, like in your body of how annoying it is to be dictated to. And so I think he's gonna really like that. What do you think? No, I think that's gonna make his day. I'm gonna try that as soon as I get home.

Yeah, that's great. I guess if I have time for like one last question, just really quickly like, is there anything you recommend in doing some damage control? Like because I've been doing this wrong, how do I, you know, kind of reset with him? Like, I really feel like we've just gotten into these tropes. I literally say some of the same things over and over. You know, so how do I make him feel that you're not a defiant kid and you know, just damage control? Yeah. Yeah. So I'm going to, I often think that a question we ask is like a path we walk down with someone. And so I don't want to walk down the path of you're doing something wrong. I don't think that's fair to you. I don't, so I'm going to walk down with someone. And so I don't want to walk down the path of you're doing something wrong. I don't think that's fair to you.

So I'm going to walk down a different path. I'm going to upgrade our path to, how do I repair and use this to kind of reconnect and move forward in a different way? So what I would say to him even today, is just, you know what? I had a really interesting conversation with someone. You can say, my name, you can say,

she's a feelings doctor. That's not my kids always call me. And a couple of things came up. First of all, let me just tell you, you're a good kid. I know sometimes I've been saying, you never listen, you never listen. You know what, you're a good kid who sometimes has a hard time and here's a secret. Listening's just hard. It's just hard. No one loves to listen all the time. You're a good kid. That's number one. Number two, sometimes I ask you to do something. That's like too hard for a four-year-old to do. And I don't kind of help you cooperate,

which leads to moments where I end up yelling and saying you're not cooperating. Now, meanwhile, a lot of parents who I think my four-year-olds gonna be tuning out. It's okay, they still hear it. They don't have to say back, thank you for the profound repair for it to really impact them.

And either way, it gets you in a better mindset. And so you might even say, so there are my peak moments, you notice. And let's say the cleaning up is a good example. We're instead of saying we have to clean up before you get another toy. No, don't take it out, no, don't take it out. I'm actually gonna stand in front of the closet,

not because you're in trouble, but because not letting you into the closet where the toys are is actually going to make it easier for us to clean up and we're going to do it in a fun way. So you might notice that little difference. And then the last thing I'd say Dana is just, you know, being a parent is tricky. And just like you're learning things, I'm learning things too. And one of the things I'm really learning is how to kind of stay close and connected to you and help you when you're having a hard time.

And so I feel like we're gonna be able to deal with those situations in a way that feels better to both of us. And I'm kind of excited about this next stage. He will definitely look at you and say, can I watch that show now? And you're gonna be like, wow, did that even land? But it did land.

It's not over their head. I always think if my husband said a lot of kind of meaningful, poignant things to me, I might say to him now that I'm an adult, hey, I need a second to process or I don't know if I can respond right now. Let me sit on that. Kids don't say that.

They're not gonna say I need a second to process. They end up saying something else, but they feel they're repair. They do. I'm 100% sure of it. Thank you. That is, I'm going to read, listen to this and write these down. I put them on small interest. I appreciate it.

And I mean, there's like more than anything. I am very like struck by your openness and reflection and insight. And I mean, there's like, I hope you allow yourself to be struck by that as well. Oh, I appreciate that. Or I'm doing the best I can. And perfectly.

That's all any of us are doing. Don't be fooled. Thanks for listening. To share a story or ask me a question, go to goodinside.com slash podcast. You could also write me at podcast at goodinside.com. Parenting is the hardest and most important job in the world. And parents deserve resources and support so they feel empowered, confident, and connected. I'm so excited to share Good Inside Membership. The first platform that brings together content and experts you trust with a global community of like-valued parents. It's totally game-changing. Good Inside with Dr. Becky is produced by

Jesse Baker and Eric Newsom at Magnificent Noise. Our production staff includes Sabrina Farhi, Julianette and Kristen Muller. I would also like to thank Eric Kabelski, Mary Panico and the rest of the Good Inside team and one last thing before I let you go. Let's end by placing our hands on our hearts and reminding ourselves, even as I struggle and even as I have a hard time on the outside, I remain good inside.

F. F. Bye!