Guys: With Bryan Quinby - Guys: Episode 41 - Menswear Guys with Jesse Thorn

Episode Date: November 21, 2023

We had https://twitter.com/JesseThorn from Judge John Hodgeman and Bullseye and the menswear website https://putthison.com/ We found the Gentlemans Gazzette and talked about ties, my style and my shoe issues and ties, lots of ties, we touched on cringe humor and comedy guys. There is much more Chris at youtube.com/noteveashow and twitter.com/notevenashow and of course https://www.patreon.com/notevenashow And for more Guys content, streams and SHOCKTOBER: a deep dive into shock jocks you can click patreon.com/murderxbryan twitter.com/murderxbryan and twitch.tv/murderxbryan

Welcome to Guys, a podcast about guys this might be the episode with the least appropriate where the theme song is the least appropriate that we've ever had because we are talking about menswear guys have with me mr half windsor chris james what's up dude fuck i wish i knew if that was insulting i guess it dropped it probably it probably is because you like to insult me in the beginning with some bit of information that I'm not aware of. It's a lazy way to tie your tie. I guess it's like that would be considered like a running bit. And usually, you know, both parties will kind of agree to that, you know. But anyway, so yeah, happy to be here and excited to talk menswear. I've got my tuxedo t-shirt on, Chineda.

For the second episode in a row, we have a menswear guy. We have Jesse Thorne from Maximum Fun and Bullseye. What's up, Jesse? Hey, guys. How's it going? Chris, first of all, you're obviously a half Windsor guy. Second of all, that is not a tuxedo t-shirt at best that is a reservoir dogs t-shirt okay you shirt it's not a you're totally

right it's actually crazy that i was trying to claim like that my t-shirt was more formal than it i didn't do that on purpose that was a legitimate mistake but i was trying to like give myself more credit based on my t-shirt uh yeah no it's a you're right it's a it's a suit t-shirt um i'm i'm being a goof i i don't want anyone to right off the bat i don't want anyone to think i'm a i'm a heel no i think you should though i i mean these listeners to this show are fucking they're so mean they just they maybe they maybe you think he'll turn is the way to go for me i do because the way they treat me and i'm like the nicest guy in the world i'm like a big time baby face and the way they treat me is just ridiculous the way they make

fun of my hobbies i'll tell you this oh his heart by the way his hobbies are he collects legos bills legos just to be clear and he eatsamellos in the middle of the night and then drools brown stuff on his pillow. So I don't want to take the side of the listeners and the people who give him a hard time, but he leaves himself a bit open for it. And he flubs constantly. You'll hear it.

It'll happen in the episode. It won't happen on this one. Can I ask you guys a question? I'm like 20, 25 years deep into my baby face period here. So this is going to be a huge heel turn. Yes, but what I'm thinking here is that if you are the heel, I'll stop getting emails. Because I think the emails that I get are about me claiming to be nice

but not being nice enough. that i get are about me claiming to be nice but not being nice enough so if i just just go full jerk okay people are are people are going to be like well you know that guy's a jerk but once in a while yeah you know what i mean yeah yeah yeah like the way people are like well joe rogan had bernie sanders on one time yes totally i mean i remember that from when i was younger definitely that there was like those kids and they were like so mean they treated you so badly and then they were treating they treated you nice once or whatever and they were like oh my god that feels so good but it should because you know right now my email inbox is like uh how dare you talk about how you watched news radio when you were 14 given that it has joe

rogan on it oh oh but i see i watched it that i watched it too so they can come and get me it has famous yeah it's a famous canadian comedian uh dave foley on there and that's why you act like i don't know all the canadianians. I am kind of one, if you think about it. You know, Dave Foley is really into UFOs now. We're getting off track of menswear stuff, but Dave is super. He's, in my experience, just one of the nicest dudes. I've only met him a few times. Listen, I can say I have opened for him in Santa of Comedy and spent time with him, and he was absolutely one of the nicest people that i've you know encountered in comedy truly and a total genius actually my my kid is 12 and she and i have been watching news radio together lately and i'm just so stunned at how good he is oh he's great he's just incredible at it yeah uh and he's super into ufos i know this because uh my co-host john hodgman on judge john hodgman just had lunch with him happened to be

in the same town as him uh had lunch with him and they just talked about ufos the whole time that's great coming such a huge thing because the government seems to be saying hey there's ufos like it seems like like i was i'm i'm like a a skeptic when it comes to everything. Like, I don't believe in ghosts. I don't believe in aliens or UFOs or any of that stuff. But that stance is becoming very unpopular, almost heelish. I think that I enjoy the idea that there's just some guys at the Navy who are in charge of UFO stuff more than I like. I also don't believe in aliens or any of those things.

Time travelers, goblins, none of them. But I love that there's a guy at the Navy who's just got one of those brown wood grain name plaques on his desk. And it says, you know, Joe Slobotnik, Navy alien guy. Yeah. UFO specialist. Oh, I need to put alien guy in the doc. Okay, Brian, are you going to? Brian, let's come on.

Let's get into it here. Let's get into something. I have something. I found a guy. It's funny. So I found this guy yesterday. And then Chris found this guy today. Yeah, we both found him independently.

I sent him to Brian. This is a very popular menswear YouTube channel. So this is like a million million sub type channel this is not a small time channel but uh but yeah this guy's pretty pretty peculiar guy to me yes it's menswear it's gentlemen's cassette so they're trying really hard to teach men how to be gentlemen these days which is i think a little different than like menswear because i don't think like back in like the 2000s i started saying like oh hi i'm a gentleman now and i would wear like a fedora or a derby hat i've i've talked about it on this people want to see that photo of you with

a derby hat i'll get you a photo with the derby hat asking for that so so you you're saying that men's you see them i i see them as very similar i think that you know menswear dressing fine is a is a gentlemanly thing um but before we get it is jesse are you are you a menswear guy just out of curiosity do you have like yeah i maybe gosh now more than 10 almost 15 years ago I started a website and video series called put this on about men's clothing that was part of the sort of first wave of internet menswear stuff wow um it still exists and and indeed um the editor now, I don't do much writing for the site anymore, but the editor who has worked with me for now, almost that whole time, 10, 12 years, is Derek Guy, who is the guy who weirdly, no pun intended, the guy who weirdly hit the

algorithm on Twitter and became Twitter menswear guy. I'm familiar with that guy. I've seen his posts on the – it's actually called – the website's called X now. But I've seen his posts on X. Sorry. As the New York Times says, the website X, formerly known as Twitter. You don't have to do that anymore, I don't think. That guy is – I like the way he posts on Twitter.

I like Brian. I agree. You don't have to anymore. You should. It doesn't get you anywhere. I also like the decisions he makes on the website X, that guy, because he's good about it, right? Because he's a sensible guy. He didn't even block you, Brian.

Yeah. Did Derek block you? Really, Brian? Here's what I think. I am friends with some. Okay, so I'm friends with the Chap choppo guys and generally there's block lists of people who are friends with them and i'm just on them so every once in a while look and i'll be like i didn't i don't i'm not mad about menswear i don't maybe i could be he could be he could respect you know good classic old-time wrestling

it could be because you'll post a lot about AEW. So anybody who respects good old-style wrestling would probably have an issue with something. I don't want to speak for Derek, but I will say that from what I know of his politics, they're not very far from Chapo politics. So, I mean, he's a very nice and polite guy. I wouldn't call him a member of the dirtbag left. No, I like him. The so-called dirtbag left. I think he's a very nice and polite guy i wouldn't call him a member of the dirtbag left no i like him dirtbag left i think he's a great guy he's not blocked me just to be clear he's okay i still am able to see his post and i said yeah i got no problem with him at all nobody did say like maybe he saw that you haven't worn sleeves in like two years can i ask a question chris i don't know brian well should i block him

um well listen do you like do you like respect wrestling as an art form sorry we can't get into this we have to talk because where for pete's sake chris come on so i know i've interacted with the gentleman's gazette guy theman's Gazette guy. The Gentleman's Gazette guy runs, ran a blog before he had a YouTube channel. I haven't looked much at the world of YouTube menswear in the last few years. But this is a guy you know? I don't, I mean, I've never met him in real life, but I've like emailed with him, I think. like self-published books and his his menswear vibe is very driven by the sort of classic aesthetics of the you know 30s and 40s and he he doesn't very much from my experience looking at his stuff he very much knows his he does know his stuff yeah that would make sense he's got all

these subscribers so i wouldn't think that you'd be able to amass that in this type of industry with talking a bunch of nonsense. I do have to say that a lot of the subscribers to and Jesse, you might be able to you might believe this, too. I don't know. A lot of the subscribers to this stuff are teenagers for some reason. Like it's like seniors in high school who are like, you know, I want to be more of a gentleman now, you know? Yeah, I think that there is a certain, there are a few different appeals to the sort of, gosh, the identity category. One is this idea that there's rules you can follow. There's rules you can follow.

And there are a lot of guys who have had the experience of being scared to engage in anything aesthetic because it will whatever, make them too femme, make them gay, that they won't be safe by engaging in saying something is pretty. Right. saying something is pretty right and for those guys who haven't had the opportunity to develop their aesthetic sense there's a lot of comfort in the idea that in in traditional menswear there's rules right you don't unbutton you don't button the bottom button of your sport coat type stuff fuck well i'm gonna tell you right i've been fucking doing that all the buttons are buttoned up on your t-shirt chris let's look at it We can actually take a look at a few don'ts, fashion don'ts that this guy came up with. I want to just say right now, though, Jesse is wearing a T-shirt.

I'm wearing a sweatshirt. I'm wearing a vintage Charlie Brown sweatshirt from the 60s. God damn it. That's so much cooler. It's a lot cooler than what you're wearing. Well, yeah, it's a lot cooler than anything I have. Because I was going to say, I got a lot of t-shirts and he's wearing a t-shirt, but he's not even.

He's wearing a fucking vintage sweatshirt. I am. Here we go. Here is Gentleman's Gazette. He's going to tell us some things we shouldn't do. Sandals. They look particularly bad. What the hell? What about when you're

going to the beach? Of course you you're going to the beach? Yeah, of course you wear sandals to the beach. This is the number one category of sandal wear. He disagrees with that. I'm going to let this play now. He says not even at the beach. No. Even on their own, there may be something that people who are really into outdoor stuff wear.

However, if you consider yourself stylish or if you care at all about your outward appearance, sandals will always make you look less smart and immature. The same goes for flip-flops. Does he mean smart? He may mean less sharply dressed. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Otherwise, that's a very bold thing to say. People who wear little personal are dumb at least they look dumb yeah yeah yeah i like a guy that takes a stance like that though i mean that's like a foodie guy who said taste is objective yeah that taste is objective there's no yeah that's a good my my canadian friend uh my brilliant Canadian comedy friend, Graham Clark, from Stop Podcasting Yourself. He's my friend. I live in Canada.

I do. I'm from Vancouver, and I'm a stand-up comedian as well. There you go. No, he actually is my friend, Brian. Stop doing the bit. He's my real friend. Graham is one of the world's top advocates for men not showing their feet in public. And I really understand that perspective.

I really am more of a don't show your feet unnecessarily in public. So sometimes it's hot outside and sometimes you're going to the beach. And, you know, in those cases, I think especially just like if you got gnarly toes. Yeah, know those actually i was told once i have like really nice feet by some dominatrixes and i wear uh birkenstocks like okay but only around the house really i don't wear them outside i like a closed toe birkenstock that's where i'm at and while everybody i wear shoes i'm with you on this because honestly i wear. I've said this a million times on the show. This is so fucked up. I wear shoes from the minute I get up till the minute I'm going to bed.

That's so fucked up. Even if he's taking a nap, Jesse, in the middle of the day, he keeps his shoes on. I sleep in my bed in shoes. I did it last week. I was tired one day. I love wearing shoes too, Brian. I'm right there with you. I wouldn't wear them in bed, but I'm in my house right now and I'm wearing them. I don't care. You don't

like the feelings of popping them off and that freedom, getting them tootsies out. Sometimes I like to get out my tootsies and, and certainly it, it, you know, it allows the stank to blow away. It gives you a drying effect, but ultimately I'd rather protect my arches. a drying effect but ultimately i'd rather protect my arches um and you know i'm also a cold extremities guy yeah my hands and toes are always cold so but anyway with with the gentleman thing like the other thing about the gentleman thing is for dudes who are trying to figure out what their masculinity is and what it means um it is it is a way to embrace a sort of masculine aestheticism but it also can slip very, very, and I love that part of it. It also can slip very, very easily into reactionary stuff. And that was something that, that's something that I still struggle with around the sort of menswear community online, which is that it is very easy to go from people should dress like they did in the 1930s, which, you know, I don't dress like it's the 1930s, but I have vintage clothes, certainly.

And I love when I'm out at the Rose Bowl flea market and I see the people in the Art Deco clothes. I think they look great. But it's very easy to go from that to Jordan Peterson. It is like a weirdly short. to go from that to Jordan Peterson. It is like a weirdly short, you know, one,

one of the guys who was, um, in the menswear communities, like a, a real sort of thought leader, a guy who was a big poster on the forums and stuff like that, uh, was this guy named Michael Anton. And he wrote a book about menswear 10,

15 years ago was one of the called the suit. Uh, he wrote it under a pseud 10, 15 years ago. It was one of the, called The Suit. He wrote it under a pseudonym, but it was like a, you know, it was one of the texts about traditional menswear. And he also, like, he, like, worked at the Brookings Institution or something, and he was in the Trump administration. And he quit the Trump administration because he didn't think Trump was, you know about nuking china or something yeah well it's funny because we just and these episodes get recorded ahead of time so uh we just released our rockabilly episode which also has sort of the same way of being like where it's like there was a time where things were way better and people dressed way cooler and that time it should be that time forever and we're hot and like uh uh i think that's another thing with guys is that like you don't not a lot of guys go around saying like oh

i'm really good looking you know i got it all put together everything's happening so the guys that do choose to do that do feel very like they they seem like we kind of look up to them in a way because it's like hey you're really taking a chance here you're putting pomade in your hair in in my case brian I'm imagining that those guys, their girlfriends have those dresses with cherries on them. And that's what we all aspire to. We all aspire to have a girlfriend with those nylons that have the line up the back

of the leg. All that stuff is a total... Us dorks won't experience it. Honestly, we won't know. I mean, Rockabilly guys do all kinds of cool stuff. They glow. They work on hot. I wish I could read the actual post. I can't read the actual post, but here we go. Here's some more sandal talk. At the pool or at the beach, a self-respecting man should never wear flip-flops in public.

Okay, so he is saying that you can do it at the pool. No, he just said in public. Here he's going to explain what you can do, though. Should you wear instead? Well, for summer, I think an ideal shoe are... Wait, is he going to say Asperger's? Yeah. Alpagatas.

These are Asperger's with laces. Those don't look good to me. Listen, I'm sorry if I'm being disrespectful to, you know, menswear people, but those... You don't seem sorry, Chris. These look silly to me these look like silly shoes like a little boy's shoes or something you know i don't know they don't look serious to me there is an 18 minute video on gentleman's gazette about how to wear driving gloves and i think that was the most silly thing i was i was with ariel today driving and the the

wheel was cold and i commented that like driving gloves would help there. So I think there is some situations where there'd be some practical. I mean, it really shows, I think, this stuff that it's very easy to tap into men's insecurity about masculine identity. And that is really troubling. I mean, like I can see the the youtube suggested videos there's a site called real men real style yeah and that guy that guy is also emailed with me he had like some sort of menswear influencers convention that he invited me to and i have no again like i have no reason to believe that that guy is anything but a decent guy um that one is more on the like uh guys we'll tell you what to wear

yeah okay oh rather a video that chris sent me and it is a guy real men real style we lost uh we seem to have lost do you think the real men real style. We lost. We seem to have lost. Come on, Brian. Do you think the real men, real style, do you think the menswear guys got to Brian? I don't know. But it is a concern because Brian. Here, he's back. Brian, you're back now.

Brian, can you hear us? Oh, did I disappear? Yeah, you disappeared. Yeah, you cut out. Yeah, your video. I'm back. I'm back. I'm back.'m back i'm back we're here you were gonna say something about real men real style brian say what you're gonna say i can edit

the episode as well brian it's a video called uh how can ugly average guys even compete and uh i just pictured a guy being like on YouTube searching ugly and like menswear and being like, how do I? I mean, I don't know what to do. I'm just an ugly guy. Yeah. I mean, it often has it often has almost the vibe of like a Reddit forum about making your dick bigger. I see. Like a little bit of like desperation maybe in there. Like a little bit of like desperation maybe in there like a little bit

of like yeah and i don't like like i said it's it's easy for that stuff to to flip into the genuinely evil yeah yeah which i think that sort of jordan peterson stuff is but like i think it speaks to men genuinely a lot of men being so insecure in their identity and not just their sexual identity but just their identity in general that they are willing to like type what should ugly guys wear into the internet now the plus side of this and i like i I have a menswear site, right? Like put this on.com. Everybody should go visit. But, um,

like, I think the plus side of this is that it is a way that it is a venue that gives men permission to care about beauty, um, in a way that is like relatively low stakes, right? Like typing something into the internet is a lot easier than it is to, you know, I mean, who dresses well? It's a lot easier to type something into the internet than it is to pay the tuition on four years of art college, right? And I think that that is probably a net positive like i think people should you know dress

however makes them feel comfortable and happy and expresses who they are but for people who who are interested in using clothing as a medium for their own enjoyment and to communicate to other people like i think it's great that the internet allows them an on-ramp that they might not have otherwise well here's something that i brought up earlier and we're just going to check this out this don't thing you should never wear this is the ninth thing you should never wear i don't even ever wear a tie is the windsor tie knot i know it's one of the most popular tie knots around because it's symmetrical and it's big the problem is most people wear it with cheap shiny ties and it makes you look like a used car salesman or an insurance salesman that is just very sleazy

and not very competent so i want to point out that we know of a car salesman who actually doesn't wear a suit he wears a very tight shirt and you can see his nipples all the time he doesn't sell cars he sells everything he sells the idea of sales and yeah yeah he's yeah he's got what's his name again he's got the hardest nipples you'll ever see they are constantly hard and his shirts are all always have them on display and he fucking screams at people i'm gonna pop in here to the comments on this and start out with uh matthews this is this so there's how many different ways can you can you tie tie there's the four in hand there's the half windsor there's the full windsor

and then there's novelty okay there's many many ones are the but those ones are like those are the main ones and and what he's talking about here is the sort of if you imagine a big symmetrical triangle at the neck and he's not wrong about you know i i wouldn't have said use car i would have said maybe uh athlete who hosts the pre-game show that's pretty good though i would i would think that would be you they would look pretty good they it's the worst suits yeah there are those who do look good for sure but um i think it's sort of like a uh it's sort of like having the exact same pattern on your um on your pocket handkerchief as you have on your necktie like it's a little steve hardy that's like something i would think you're supposed

to do they're supposed to be i mean the idea is that they'd be complementary rather than matching um i gotcha i gotcha i feel that matching and then somebody told me i think it was my wife who told me you don't people don't match anymore so you don't have to do that anymore because yeah i mean i don't think people ever match matched in that way at least that that were oh jesse if you're with me if you're yeah i mean that's what it's a real house high school problem if you met if you didn't match you were dead but for the whole day it was like no that doesn't match like what what do what would you have to match like what well your t-shirt to your jordans right

oh your t-shirt or your hat to your okay yeah yeah if you didn't and if you didn't wear if you weren't adidas shirt and nike shoes forget about it and you're allowed to do that these days which i think is that's a good step in the right direction you're still not really supposed to do that you can do it uh matthew spurlock 1253 responded to this video he said i'm 16 if i follow this i'd most likely be bullied in school so derrick simon uh responded to him and said uh you still fall under quote school boy not gentlemen so don't worry about it so yeah i mean i think ultimately at the end of the day we all have to decide whether we're school boy or gentleman yeah it is funny to say the two types of guys are school boy and gentleman it's because the school boy would be wearing still their school uniform shorts like

so they wouldn't really have to worry about it like what like john what what john kennedy's son was wearing when he saluted during that uh during that funeral for john i want to be clear guys i want to be clear guys like i'm enjoying i'm enjoying mocking this necktie stuff um i have really strong feelings about the foreign hand knot and i have you know something i have in common with gentlemen's Gazette guy is I have a people in the menswear industry that has like not only illustrations of current fashions but also textile swatches inside i probably have i probably have 20 of these and i'm not gonna lie they they cost three digits a piece well it's funny it is very funny that like uh that like there are these arguments over ways to tie a tie to me because that is the kind of

thing that guys this this podcast is is fucking made for yeah those are the arguments that we really enjoy one of the things one of the things that I struggled with when I was writing a lot and making more videos about menswear is that what a lot of dudes want is a provable point, right? Like they want to be able to say, so for suit construction, for example, this might've been something you talked about with the other menswear guy, but like suits are made of multiple layers, right? There's the fabric on the inside. There's the on the outside. There's the lining on the inside. And then in between, there's the textile that gives the garment its shape. And that that layer in between is attached to the outside a variety of ways.

It might be through a sort of industrial glue, or it might be through hand stitching. And the hand stitching allows the garment to move better and shape better. But it's obviously, is it more difficult to produce? It's extraordinarily more difficult to produce and dramatically more expensive, right? And the industrial glue is a lot better than it used to be. So the sort of broad categories are fully canvassed, half canvassed, or fused. The fusing is the glue. And it depends on what parts are stitched and what parts are glued, right?

And this is like a categorization system for quality of suits. And it is pretty useful like it does demarcate the difference between the best and the good and the okay suits like it'll last longer as well like like a one that's made the yeah it may i mean the glues are a lot better than they used to be that when you dry cleaned the fused ones after a while they might bubble okay are they that doesn't happen much anymore there's so much more expensive for the reason like for they look because there's a lot of work involved okay there's a lot of work as far as the quality of them goes like they are better okay yeah i would never in this lifetime like and i'm serious about this this is not me

joking around it's kind of me joking around but i would uh buy a suit that like i would never know that part of the stuff is on the inside that you're paying for because i would just be like well nobody's gonna see that well that's the thing about like with suiting and shoes both like leather shoes dress shoes um there's a lot going on inside that nerds can nerd out about. I see. That's cool. And it's stuff that is coded as masculine, right? Construction methods are mask coded. And so dudes who are going to talk about whether the suit is fully canvassed don't have to feel like they are talking about whether the suit is pretty. They can say't have to feel like they are talking about whether the

suit is pretty they can say actually i can prove that it's better because it's fully canvassed it doesn't make sense that's trouble right like that's that's like the a fully canvassed suit is you know if it's well made probably going to be a better suit than a fused suit that's glued together um the distance might not be huge it really depends but and ultimately like whether it fits you is the is going to be the biggest question right but like there are all these things like that that dudes on the internet let's call them guys ah that's yeah yeah want to obsess over um because you know even though this is an a world of aesthetics and beauty and social communication they want it to be a world of rules well and and coleman e 9898 does say i couldn't agree more with your take on tyna disagree more

with your take on tyna oh the full windsor is not too large if you tie it properly with the right tie uh by comparison the half windsor looks like a knot used by someone who doesn't regularly wear ties and doesn't know what they're doing the The full wins are also helped prevent the overly long tie problem. I have worn a tie almost every day since I was 12, and I know what I'm talking about. That's a huge flex. That is a huge flex. I've worn a tie almost every day of my life since I was 12.

This guy never lets loose. This guy was a business middle schooler. Yeah, he was involved in business well maybe his well he was a school boy but his school boy suit i guess was maybe a proper suit he was in one of those sort of uh schools you know where they make you dress in a proper you think he only dated when he was in high school do you think he dated women in in gray wool skirts what's funny is that like when i first started podcasting and talking to people on twitter people would be like oh hey there were guys that like i think it's people from new york

and like la and stuff like that uh where there would be kids in the school that like wear a suit and have like a briefcase or a rolling luggage. I never saw it in my life, but it had become kind of an archetype, a joke. Yeah. I mean, this is something my colleague, John Hodgman on Judge John Hodgman, he's talked about the fact that he carried a briefcase to high school.

And it was because he was born a middle-aged man. Yeah. I don't know him in the same way. I know him just as a member of the public, but he does strike me as – that's not entirely surprising to hear. No. I mean, the man was born and has always been a brilliant and talented dork. And I can't claim to be otherwise. I mean, I'll tell you like i would occasionally wear a tie in

high school um never i've i've worn a tie like twice in my life i also really you know i'm your whole life wait wait sorry jesse i apologize i don't want to be rude but twice in your whole life like don't what about like weddings and funerals i don't i people don't expect me to he just wears it he usually wears like an ascot or a cravat to funerals it's something else really no people in my life i love you grandma dude wait so so is this true though so if you're that like a like a funeral not to make let's go wedding so it's not morbid you're at like a wedding or whatever you're you're not um expected to wear a suit no i've only worn one i was in my brother's wedding and he made me put it on and i was just like i don't like this i think i have been described by the people in my life as being kind of a cartoon character so you get what you get when you show

up and it's generally like a hoodie so it's not even like you wouldn't even do something like this where you do the t-shirt because that's kind of funny like having i had a uncle who you know he's like a hippie kind of guy lives on salt spring island which is like a real kind of and and he's really cool and he wore like a you know a t-shirt tuxedo to the wedding and it was like no everyone else was dressed up but no one would have no one was blinking an eye everyone just loved it it was just you know have you ever thought of that i'll tell you this my college roommate my freshman year this guy named mike wonderful wonderful guy still my friend mike is yeah shout out shout out to mike um big wrestling guy oh i wonder if he likes the real deal shit.

Mike, I think he only goes to regional wrestling events in San Francisco Bay Area. Love that. He's a territory guy. If it's not in a middle school gym, he's not there. Yeah, he's more like me than Chris. So Mike is Filipino, and he's built like an oil drum, sort of. He's wider than an oil drum probably, but he's like almost perfectly cylindrical man. Like he's got huge monster muscle calves and thighs.

He's got a huge round barrel chest. He's not very tall. So a really distinctive body on him, right? But like powerful, powerful guy. But I remember, I went to UC Santa Cruz in Santa Cruz, California. I remember it was like, it's probably March. It's in the springtime.

We'd been sharing a dorm room for six months at that point. And he goes, oh man jesse i gotta and i gotta i gotta go home to hayward and get some fucking pants and i'm like what do you mean you have to go home to hayward and get pants like what is that even and he goes man i gotta i gotta go to a fucking wedding and i need to get some fucking pants. And I'm like, what do you mean you need to get pants? He's like, ah, I don't have any pants. And I'm like, do you mean?

And then I realized he literally didn't own pants. And he's like, dude, have you ever seen me wearing pants? And I'm like, I guess I haven't ever seen you wearing pants now that i think about it probably because it was hard to find pants that were like that are for like his size or whatever no 56 degrees and raining in santa cruz and he was wearing flip-flops it's you know it's partly i'm sure it's partly informed by his body shape i think flip-flops anywhere is a Filipino cultural thing. And like, he truly did not,

did not have hard shoes, which a lot of dudes that age don't have hard shoes. Yeah. But like, he also literally didn't own a pair of pants. So he had to go buy a pair of chinos at J crew or banana Republic or whatever. Cause he didn't,

I put on long pants. Brian for, yeah, for a long time, Brian didn't have sleeves and Brian, you were like, do you wear pants that often? I guess when it's cold you wear jeans probably No I don't wear jeans very often

So what do you wear? These Lululemon They're like Lululemon sweatpants I wear Lululemon That's every commercial that's not for gambling On a sports podcast Is like Dudes are you tired of pants that crunch your nuts and no but i am scratch your knees

but jesse i am don't you aren't you looking for pants that you can wear from the office yeah are you looking for shorts that you can wear from from the office to the swimming pool to the golf course exactly you got it this is geared no but in all seriousness i i wear lululemon joggers as well i have a couple of different pairs of lululemon i don't wear joggers because i don't like the turd catchers on the bottom of pants fair enough but but yeah so i i like them i really like the way that they you know they're super super comfortable and i think that they are you know aesthetically look good enough that i can wear them with stuff and not look like a total scrub where i'm still but i mean it is true it's i want to be comfortable when i'm walking around and it's not that comfortable to wear like a pair of nice

dress pants can like that's that's fair to say right that's not actually i read so many guys because so i watched a video yesterday of what men should wear around their house. And I don't know how you. Whatever they want. No. Actually, that's not true. They should wear other things around the house. I think they called it a smoking jacket.

I think a chore jacket. They're supposed to wear a chore jacket around the house? I think that's what it was, yeah. I can see somebody wearing a smoking... I could see the Gentleman's Gazette guy wearing a smoking jacket around the house. I got a smoking jacket. If you imagine a...

Well, I mean, like, a tuxedo in French is called le smoking. So it's like red? Is it red, a smoking jacket? It's dark red, smoking because it's red. Is it red? A smoking jacket? It's dark red. I think the kind of thing we're talking about might be dark red. It might be like quilted velvet or something like that. Right.

Big shawl collar. Um, it might tie around the waist instead of buttoning around the waist. I mean, these are, these terms mean different things depending on how historical you're being, but can you wear a t-shirt ever? I mean, I'll tell you this.

I wear pajamas to bed. Me too. I wear socks. They're really soft. I love it. I love wearing pajamas to bed. I would never sleep. Sleeping naked is the craziest thing that people do, for sure.

I sleep in box boxes sometimes in the summertime. I sleep in boxers. sleeping naked is the craziest thing that people do for sure i sleep but i mean i'm talking about sometimes in the summertime i sleep in boxers imagine what dick van dyke with the pajamas dick van dyke might wear and on the dick van dyke show i i wear that kind of pajamas and i'd love it feel like you wear a cap i would love to wear a cap oh jesse wear a cap? I would love to wear a cap. Oh, Jesse, wear a cap. I mean, honestly, you know what they say? It's like you don't, it's like obviously you're not using the cap every time you wear it. But what if the night that Santa comes is the night that you're not wearing the cap? Oh, yeah.

You want to have it on. You got your cap on When Santy comes to visit Five nights and then why not just wear it Seven nights I remember what it is, dressing gown You're supposed to wake up in the morning And put on a dressing gown And then put on your morning suit And when you're in a morning suit

At home So you walk around You don't ever walk around at home in a suit, do you, Jesse? I mean, I guess I do occasionally, but I'll wear pajamas and a robe around the house from time to time. Now, that said, among my quirks, just like how I almost always am wearing shoes and i want to be clear because on judge john hodgman this has come up and people freak out if i'm visiting someone who has a no shoes house it's not like i say i'm gonna keep my shoes on fuck you oh and i also want to be clear that if my shoes have stuff on them i take them off i live in los angeles where there's no snow or rain or mud

i obviously i think that you're a total gentleman when it comes to that i'm concerned at brian's reaction that brian what do you what do you do when someone says you have that they have a no shoes policy either stand on the front porch or in the little breezeway area by the door the whole time yeah where the shoes are allowed have you ever brian have you ever done a thing where there's a conversation going on inside the house but shoes aren't allowed inside the house so you just sort of prostrate yourself across the entryway so that your feet remain outside the house but the rest of your body is inside so you can participate in the conversation? Yeah, I've laid down flat so my stomach's on the

carpet part. I'd love to see you bring a cot. That'd be smart. That would be smart. But most people don't, again, most people don't expect me to take my shoes off. Most people know this guy's not going to take his damn shoes off. But don't you ever encounter new people?

When was the last time that you a friend i mean brian goes out all the time so i that's what i'm saying i think he walks around he walks an incredible amount all over columbus ohio and so i'm guessing he interacts with people constantly wrong okay so so when when was the last like do you ever have to take off your shoes you know and like in the daytime no not really i don't i don't think i've ever been to somebody's house where they were like hey brian you know i'll take off my shoes i have taken off my shoes a few times but i do bitch the whole time i've taken off my shoes a few times. It's almost helpful for the people there to just let me keep my shoes on because then they don't have to hear me the whole time being like, oh, what do you think? I walk through shit. I fucking keep my shoes on.

So you're causing issues? You're going to sulk about it if they make oh yeah yeah i mean you know i'm a table but i'm a sulker i think you're sulking is like not taken seriously like by his like he'll sulk around his wife and his daughter or whatever but they're like it's like it's very comical sulking you know and it's almost like a comic book character even in his mannerisms when he sulks i i do think think there's a menswear guy thing that I found very interesting that I learned about. And I went to a website called Style Forum. Yeah, I'm a member of Style Forum.

It's exactly what it is. I just keep thinking about how that Twitter guy who got so mad at me about being so dumb, the rockilly guy you know how he's just gonna be like listening to the episode and he's gonna like right at the beginning this fucking nerd is like asks jesse thorn if he's a menswear guy yeah i want i want to say i i want anybody who's concerned about my, you know, my menswear stuff, anybody, any rockabilly guy who's concerned, Chris,

about you, any, any rockabilly guy that's concerned about brine sulking, whatever it may be. If you're a rockabilly guy, just go back to making out with your rockabilly girlfriend. At make out point. Because there is no bigger boost to a look.

We've all thought it would be cool to have a goth girlfriend, et cetera, et cetera. But there's no bigger bump than the rockabilly uh aesthetically for a potential girlfriend yeah this guy and this seems like a real issue in the community of menswear guys so i'm gonna read this post from dream space and he goes whenever i'm back home and wearing a suit for whatever occasion guys will comment on my tie knot i either wear a four in hand or a half windsor can i see these is there any way for me because i don't know i have no reference for what am i looking at right now a full windsor that is a half windsor yeah it's a half windsor it's a half okay so so how how can you like is there a way to tell? Do you see that sort of triangular, big

triangular shape? Yeah. The Winternauts are built to... I see triangles all over that image. What the nerds are complaining about is the sort of... What's hilarious about it is

it's the try-hardest among us who are the most concerned, and I count myself among that, who are the most concerned about try hardiness. But like to have a perfectly symmetrical tie knot suggests that you're the kind of guy who lacks the sort of command of clothes that would lead you to be able to not have a perfectly symmetrical tie knot does that make sense i mean it kind of does like so you're like well i don't know so you're saying that it's better to have like a not totally perfect one it like shows like a little bit more confidence in the clothes that you have or something exactly and i think and i think also that like given how symmetrical the actual outfit is yeah it just gives it a feeling of that a robot didn't put it together so it gives it a little bit of humanity so okay i want to see yeah i want to say so which one do

you what do you wear i'm a four in hand guy or hand. So can I see this four in hand, please? Can I bring you a Brian? Show me four in hand. This is an issue here. I want to just a week ago, some guy asked me how I could own such a nice suit without knowing how to properly tie a tie. Yeah. Explaining how to do a chunky full Windsor.

Other times it's been the same. Let me show you how to tie a tie that doesn't look a chunky full windsor other times it's been the same let me show you how to tie a tie that doesn't look that doesn't look good etc of course i'm better than lashing out on beginners i do once favored the fifth size wins or not for reference this is how my ties usually look and then i cut the picture out but i find it interesting that these guys do have this style, but I think they live in a world that doesn't really respect it. You know what I mean? Like, they have to go around. This is a foreign hand right here.

Where's that? Right here. I want to see it on someone. I just want to see it on someone. I just want to see it on someone. Well, James Bond wears them. Oh, okay. It's a little Right here. I want to see it on someone. I just want to see it on someone. I just want to see it on someone. Well, James Bond wears them. Oh, okay. It's a little skinnier?

Yeah. Yeah, it's a little skinnier, a little more asymmetrical. Okay, gotcha. Yeah, yeah, I see. It's kind of, yeah, I like that style. No, no, like that's the one, I like looking at that one the best. I think there's a frustration in the community that people don't quite understand. Like, we're all wearing Lululemon pants now and just kind of walking around in a T-shirt.

And I found that there was such a frustration in, like, the community of guys that dress nice. Brian, let me tell you this. I was on Redditdit yesterday congratulations yeah thank you and uh not to brag but i i pay the four dollars a month so i don't have to look at ads oh i should do that um i was on i was on reddit yesterday in the subreddit for the maximum fun show the flop house, great, hilarious, bad movie show. And my friend Elliot is one of the hosts of this show.

And there was a guy who had posted a screed, an enraged screed about Elliot having complimented the Babadook. Not the film, the character. Well, the Babadook's evil though. You should not be. So that's fair that's fair

i think what elliot was trying to say he had compared him to bella lugosi as dracula the reason elliot had done this was because it's remarkable that the babadook has had such an impact on the culture as a character and an idea even though there's just this one babadook movie now i think most of that is let's be frank it's fun to say babadook movie. Now, I think most of that is, let's be frank, it's fun to say Babadook. It's very fun to say it. I've been having a great time saying the last few sentences. Yeah. So this screed is about how dare he suggest that the Babadook is as good as

Bela Lugosi as Dracula or something like that. And I made a little joke reply, I'm going to print this out and show it to Elliot tomorrow and let him know because I'm worried that he doesn't know then this guy replied to me with like six enraged replies you know saying i look like a pedophile and stuff which not unfair but um but you know totally and i'm like who is this i always when people are flipping out like this on reddit i always want to know what their deal is so i'll click on their thing and it shows their past comments yeah and there was a comment there of this guy flipping the fuck out on somebody because they had recommended the wrong mouse in a thread in the mouse subreddit to somebody who said what mouse should i get for my girlfriend

we have i mean we know these people like because we we've we've done yelp guys and like we encounter a lot of these on message boards and reddit and stuff like that these are this is that's the kind of guy that we would cover you know this type of yeah well i mean look i'm i'm not i'm not even saying that's the wrong that it's wrong to be into mice i got a mechanical keyboard sitting right in front of me now i'm not a mechanical keyboard guy in the sense that i just typed into the internet what mechanical keyboard should i get and then just bought that one i don't the theory of guys actually jesse and and people miss this sometimes is that the overriding theory theory of the guy podcast

theory i know theory everybody we've got it fl it flies rise up sorry we didn't need to pause for a second because the flub heads start they start chatting club club club in public all together at once that's really cool yeah it's a huge movement do they gather to listen to the show or is it just that there's so many listeners to the show that there's a sort of i mean the club heads are are definitely like they are a subset of listeners like they are a unique subset who are like very much interested in the flub side of things and they love when brian and i love bringing this up is one of them he made a great one september fish it's a famous one he said instead of september 5th and someone brought a september fish sign to aew show and put

it on tv uh for brian wrestling i watch watch, so make sure that I saw it. That's an incredible moment in Flumhead history. Really gorgeous. In the universal theory of guys is that it is normal to be several types of guy. It is abnormal to be one type of guy. And that's the kind of people we cover is like and and the reason i even came to this it's funny that you talked about clicking on the name of the person

and checking out what they do the the way that on my old podcast we covered news stories and i would find myself in the comments not even reading the news stories and then clicking on a guy and following from website to website, reading his stuff. I didn't care about the news or anything. I was just like, oh my God, this guy's great. You know what it reminds me of? I have this theory that I've expounded on Jordan, Jesse go that it doesn't matter what is on that, um that conveyor belt.

There is no sadder story than the things being purchased in the express lane at the supermarket. Like you look at the, whatever the things are that are being nine items or less, it doesn't matter. It could be bread peanut butter and jelly and that's still a sad story about not having any lunch yeah every single one is like either like a emergency of some kind like a small you know what i mean there's obviously like toilet paper and like toilet bowl cleaner like something like that you know and that's how i feel about the reddit comment

histories of someone like this it's just like a story i want to read is the story of this person bouncing from the calgary subreddit to the mouse subreddit yeah to almost invariably a warhammer subreddit oh we did we did we covered warhammer on this. Warhammer, guys, was fascinating, and I did not understand any of it at all. Still don't. So I think I'm a menswear guy. I'm a baseball guy. Oh, yeah, me too.

Comedy guy is comedy guy. I mean, I'm an old school comedy nerd. I used to post on a specialthing.com, the home of the origin point for comedy nerdery. You know, just hanging out, talking with Blaine Kepatch and Patton Oswalt and Brian Posehn about what our favorite Mr. Show sketches were. See, now I wasn't, I didn't know what to do. Like people have said, are you going to do comedy guys? But it feels like there's like eight different kinds of comedy guys that i could get an episode out of because i know there are a lot of people that like i would love

to do improv improv guys there's a definitely i mean improv people who are into improv that's a deep well you know i think the most incredible category of guy is there used to be this website called cringe humor it was like the patrice o'neill is the greatest comedian of all time community and patrice o'neill was obviously a great community but it's like that that the the purpose of comedy is for men to be belligerent yes that was my home website actually i love that was his home page opened up when i spent a lot of time on whack bag.com and a lot of a lot of those people are you know i've who has anything bad to say about colin quinn you know like one of the funniest guys ever and a really smart nice guy too yeah but like there are these sub subsets of of comedy guy i know this because there's this one subset that follows this, uh, this former comedian who was like, uh, he was like a bro comedian, but not a angry one.

Yeah. But then he, I think from what I understand, he ate like an ultra, he got tricked into eating an ultra high dose THC edible on maybe on the Rogan show. And then he went insane and moved to Idaho. Who's this? Uh, his name is Owen Benjamin. Oh,

I know. Oh, we know. Oh, of course. Okay. I mean, I do.

I, I, I, I have a channel where I prank like a far right freaks and like, yeah. So I, okay. So he went insane

and like i know about his story mostly because a key part of his going insane was uh targeting me uh because i have a transgender child yeah he is that guy is a scum he is scum of the of the worst of the worst yeah worst of the worst scumbag that the scumbags hate him like that really has been nice to see that the for a long time he had a loyal army that had their own special name and everything and now like once in a while i'll like look at there's an owen benjamin subreddit and i'll look at it and it's just all of the like it's they're like ex-mormons yeah only mormons are nice you know like they're like former followers of his that are like he went insane anyway this is off the topic has talked about him ripping off his fans by doing like some

kind of a kickstarter so he could have a neighborhood yeah he tried to build a like an intentional community yeah but but he never got the permits because he tried to build a like an intentional community yeah but but he never got the permits because he just i think he just figured in idaho you're allowed to do anything you want yep that's his definition of freedom his stuff is so like i i came across his streams and it's just like he's in some unfinished garage streaming to like so few people and just like i was like holy crap i was like in the he was on like tv and stuff i know people who toured with him like hodgman toured with him like that's how he was like a normal mainstream comedian on comedy central and stuff before definitely very strange and and you

know we we do cover that kind of guy on the patreon with shocktober which is a show we do where we talk about shock jocks we we pick a shock jock every we've been doing it for like four or five years and uh we pick a shock jock and the whole episode's about that guy and their fans and owen benjamin definitely is a guy that comes up the cringe humor crew the the opie and anthony crew are great oh the opie and anthony i haven't even thought about opening it opie oh yeah we just did an episode with gabrus about him that way hey everyone you can go check it out on the patreon it's goodness gracious well i can't imagine anything i would enjoy more than to hear gabrus talk about opie and anthony that sounds

like a great time i mean what is it when is any when is it not a great time with John Gabrus? Yeah, me and Gabrus bonded over. I have with several people online, Felix Biederman, Chris. Our friendship is based on us knowing everything about Opie and Anthony. Well, Gabrus is a classic comedy genius who wants to pretend to be a dumb guy uh because he's from new jersey or whatever but it's actually a really really smart and obviously brilliantly hilarious guy the best well let's uh look into this spot still posted and he said i love classic menswear but have almost completely giving up given up on it and have switched over to a slimmer fit on most of my clothing because of my height and build classic menswear looks billowy and like it's wearing me

i tried wearing robes and i enjoyed the experience except for a haphazard problem being extremely short five three when i went up the steps i would step on the hem of my robe and trip when i went up the steps i would step on the hem of my robe and trip unfortunately sometimes our bodies don't match our souls inside oh inside i am fucking heartbreaking well this this this is even worse inside i'm a dapper gentleman on the outside i look like a tough biker wait did he say he's like five foot three"? And really skinny. Hanging off of him. He looks like a tough biker. Maybe he does. Maybe he does.

I would say that sounds more like the build of a tough BMX biker. I don't know that I could be intimidated by somebody who has that build. And this is comments on a video of them talking about what you should wear around the house. this is comments on a video of them talking about what you should wear around the house the thing the thing that makes me uncomfortable is almost any of these commentaries like it's not that i disagree with them because i often agree with them you know what i mean like i really love to wear a suit i love a beautiful i love a full drape trouser what is that almost what the fuck does that mean? You know, like a wide leg with a good clean line.

JNCOs. Yeah, I'm talking about JNCOs primarily. I mean, you have a new metal podcast, Brian. You know about my looks. Oh, yeah. He wore JNCOs 100%. Yeah. I mean, just imagine like an illustration from apparel arts from the 30s or one of the guys from Korn or sort of your classic.

But anyway, I really love this stuff. Like I really and I really like clothes. I love seeing people's outfits. I love the sociological aspects of it i love the idea of clothing as as aesthetic expression and as communication and as an expression of cultural identity the the biggest concern with the classic menswear guy that i have is that almost no matter what the comment is you can imagine that the last sentence could be and i blame the jews yes yes it is some of these some of these people do seem like they want to say something that

they're not well i mean yeah i mean it's like classic classic man like you're talking about like traditional even the dress a lot of it is like old time stuff that was you know so the idea of like going back to this time before obviously yeah and it's you know it's eurocentric it's uh it's masculocentric and sometimes bordering on misogynistic oh yeah homophobic sometimes too homophobic sometimes too and you know like those things are sort of like it's this weird set of reactions to reactions about you know people who are insecure uh who are insecure about their masculinity trying to find kind of rules to assert their masculinity um but and finding them in like aesthetic stuff and then the aesthetic stuff makes them worried that they're too gay and then they become

homophobic to prove how not gay they are and like those things are very weird but at the same time Again, like, I really think it's the overall effect, the biggest net effect, is that I think it's wonderful for men to have a lane for aesthetic expression. Like, I think that's a really good thing. limitations of you know modern masculinity is is that there are you know the that the societal the social strictures are such that's really hard for men to like be engaged in beauty and beauty is a real it's one of the best things about being alive and these guys look beautiful i got it as a non-men yeah like truly you see somebody that's like really done up in like a proper suit and like you can see it's like a bespoke suit that i know that term by the way yeah i mean like ultimately like it is it looks good it's impressive you know and a suit in particular you know is is a technology that really has been refined over hundreds of years to make men look appealing.

And there are many cultural aspects to that. You know, what constitutes appealing varies over time and across cultures, obviously. But like... Yeah, you put on a well-tailored suit, baby. There's a reason that like like i'm wearing it i'm wearing a t-shirt under my sweatshirt here and it's a little you know it's a it's a little bit stretchy and i have a little bit of tum tum and it stretches on my tum tum and you can see

my tum tum pretty conspicuously um and if i'm if i was wearing a suit right now, I would look like a freaking Olympic athlete. That is the other thing too, like that, that a lot of these guys, I mean, right. It's just so, it takes a lot of work to learn these things. And, and we've just been convinced over, over decades that men don't really have to try hard. And if we do, then there's a problem with that. Like, we're doing something stupid. I mean, that's why I didn't get into, like, I could have got into podcasting way earlier,

but I didn't want to be a comedy guy because, unfortunately, I thought comedy guys were total fucking dorks and I wanted to be in a head and metal band. And you wanted to focus on Lego. Yeah well no that just recently happened but yeah he just picked that up later and knew his thing thank you very much joseph hanky 1992 says i have so many people ask why i'm dressed up having which having trousers and a jacket constitutes ball room wear by today's standards just how i like to present myself i gotta go to better places this guy's got to go to better places or respect the dress you know what i mean like he has that sounds like this guy sounds like he should move to vienna yeah he should move somewhere where the dress is respect you know just get into a neighborhood

where people are saying wow looking great today mister whatever your last name is specifically nazi vienna yes well i don't know i find i receive a much better level of service from others as well just a different time i guess times can change i'm gonna keep the menswear regardless so he's he feels like when he goes to the grocery store and he's standing in line he gets like a lot better service which i don't i don't believe that at all but i mean here here's the thing there is as i said like a sort of objective technological quality to clothing there is an aesthetic quality to clothing right so you can look beautiful and your clothes can flatter you, right? And you can be following these quote unquote rules, which these dudes love so much. But there is an element of social communication and relation in the way that you dress, right?

Like, Brian, I'm sure that part of the reason that you're wearing a Blue Jays baseball cap right now. Well, they'll tell you the exact fucking reason. It's because he tries to pretend to be a fucking Canadian. He lies about it. And it's a big thing when I actually live in Canada. Yeah. So that's directly to, I can tell you the reason. It's to make me fucking angry.

Got it. Well, shout out to Brandon Belt. Shout out to the chicken nuggets that brought him to Toronto. He doesn't know any of that. Google that sometime, Brian, because it's very fun. He doesn't know the players. He doesn't know anything about it. But it is meaningful.

It is about a cultural identification, just like your Vans hat is, Chris. Yeah. And I think that there is a frustration in these dudes who are like, I did all this work. I learned all the rules and other people have different expectations. And part of dressing is relating to the cultural expectations of the world that you actually live in. Right? Yeah. And so it is one thing to be the guy that says, I love dressing like

this. I think I look beautiful. A lot of people think I look beautiful. It's unusual that I dress this way. And some people acknowledge that, but I think it's worth it to me. Just like, you know, like at my arts high school, you know, there was a girl who wore full-on bondage clothes to school. And fucking shout out to that girl. What a badass. That is so cool. Just like full black vinyl and giant platform boots. I'm sorry.

I actually found a guy that's mad about that. Really? Specifically about the girl that Jesse knows? really specifically about the girl that jesse knows listen when i was in music university i'd see the men wearing all okay so they would let's start with this problem this is a concern for me he doesn't want anyone to think he went to a music college he just want he wants people to know that there there were advanced available. Because they usually say music school. Yeah. They would, yeah.

When I went to music university, I'd see the men wearing all sorts of atrocities, including party shirts with tuxedo jackets and tuxedo jackets with blue jeans and that same party shirt. Formal patent leather shoes with blue jeans, et cetera, not to mention their tuxedo jackets often had notched lapels.

Drove me nuts. I guess they would have to wear it. Why were they always in tuxedo for like, while they were playing? Maybe it might be because I think a lot of, well, a classical music guys are indeed weird. Shout out to all classical music guys.

Your, your art is extraordinary and i have nothing but love and respect for you but i think also like they have to wear formal clothing to perform in yeah yeah and whatnot yeah yeah that's what i was thinking so but then but this guy was mad that they these guys were just butchering it because presumably maybe some of them were made to do that and they didn't want to be doing it they were would rather have been wearing different clothes yeah and they i'm bet i bet that they did look awful oh yeah probably yeah i mean trent anderson says a buddy of mine wore a matching set of shiny probably polyester blue plaid vest bow tie a pocket square as he proceeded to say he looked better than me as i tried not to cringe out loud these

two said both sound just insufferable to me i don't want to hang out with either these guys have a really rough relationship yeah they sound like a weird like from a movie or something like that two characters from you know he's like as he proceeds to say you know they're both really full of themselves so they both probably look bad that's what i think well this guy says i have a large head pinhead knots are best for pinhead people i always choose a half windsor at minimum three are also other fun large knots like the eldridge knot he's a rule follower no sense of flair safe okay so so is that he's talking about if your head's big you don't want to go with the skinny little knob because it'll make you got a pinhead i'd like that about these guys by the way i like that like most of us don't want to face what we look like maybe that's just me but like i think

myself and i'm like i don't but these guys are like i have a pinhead so i gotta fucking dress around that thing i'll tell you that my experience with that and i have a lot because you know we used to i used to do sort of an advice column and put this on and and i got a lot of emails i think that most men who are self-conscious about their bodies and i think men are a lot more self-conscious about their bodies than the culture sort of acknowledges i think most men who are self-conscious about their bodies and think they are dressing to correct for that are over-correcting. I think the reality is that, you know, certainly you can wear clothing that flatters your particular body type and should you know like i i think it's it's

good to wear clothes that fit um but like it's easy to get into a sort of obsessive negative loop about like oh i have to wear wide trousers because my feet are big and otherwise they look like clown shoes i heard that a lot that particular one i'm like i have never looked at someone and thought that guy looks like he's wearing clown shoes i mean i have personally jesse but that's because i've seen clown were you looking at like a ronald mcdonald at the you know the playland it was ron yeah it was ron mcdonald i was at mcdonald's so you know him as rondonald i was at mcdonald's do you so you know him as ron you know him as ronald but you are do you have a pre did you go to high school together or

did you go to clown university oh oh okay so now just because i personally know ron mcdonald all of a sudden now i'm a clown i'm not saying that you're a clown. You could have been studying Commedia dell'arte. Yeah. Or trapeze. It's either Hamburger University or Clown University. And I admire both of those things, Chris. I mean, the point here is that advanced degrees are available. It's not just undergraduate studies.

Sebastian Gorka uses a foreign hand. Okay. So we're talking about Gorka. We're talking about Roger Stone. We're talking about Roger Stone. We're talking about Michael Anton. Well, the reason I say that is because he has the biggest head in the world. And so that was interesting. I just looked it up to go look at photos of him because I know him.

And he uses a foreign hand. From high school? No, I call him and tell him about how big his head is regularly on his show and on his cell phone and stuff. And he doesn't he's not a fan of mine. Right. Yeah. So I find that interesting that he uses the foreign because, you know, that this guy just told me that would accentuate the large head, you know? Yeah. I mean, I I think that like, again, it's about it's about dudes insecurities. it's about it's about dudes insecurities and i think that uh i think i i think men like they they hold these insecurities so like tightly and secretly um and it can be really painful talking to you right now he's talking to you right now. Me as well, but I'm saying we both got paying attention.

I am paying attention. If you need to unburden yourself to me, I'm here for you. I want you to know that. I feel like I have figured out how to look normal. That's kind of what I always shop for.

I wasn't ever like my thing wasn't like oh this guy i want him to dress you know what i mean like i don't want to stick out i i said this to my daughter when she was in high school i said uh you know you just want to make it through the high school part and just be normal and then when you get out on the other end you can be whatever you want because people don't care as much. And I think she's taken that to heart now. And, uh, you know, it made her time much easier because I am very much a be normal guy. You know, we got her a cell phone. We got her a smartphone. Like when she was at a certain, when I started seeing

kids her age with smartphones because I was like, well, if she doesn't have one, she'll be fucking weird. So we got to give her one. She said I was going to join the high school band. I told my wife. I was like, is that a good idea? Because I used to be mean to the high school band. She said, well, at her school, it's cool to do it.

I was like, then do it, man. Have fun in the high school band. I do understand, Brian, a little bit. What you're saying is that I think that would probably I would never do menswear because I'm so comfort is so important to me. And I it's just important for me to feel comfortable all the time. But I would be worried a little bit about standing out and having people noticing me and looking at me and all of the things that I was doing. Because there just aren't, certainly where I am in Vancouver, you just don't see people. You're in the financial district or whatever, people are working.

But normally you're out. You don't see people dressed really nice like that. It stands out. You are sticking out. These guys like the compliments. Of course. Yeah yeah it's nice to have a compliment i do like that and and i also like i care about what i dress in you know like i do care about my fashion a little bit and i do appreciate getting a compliment on it and like i said i mean i think they look good as well so i'd imagine in certain circumstances they're

getting a lot of compliments and it must feel really good. You know? Yeah. Probably. Yeah. But yeah, I couldn't, I couldn't do it on the, on the, just on, you know, the idea of being the guy in any situation. Brian sets her concert. Oh, you do. We executive realness ball.

We're not allowed to go to those. We can't do it. We'll get killed. Now there's a guy. He's a bruiser. He's a flat out bruiser. And he wants us dead. No, no, we can't do it. We'll get killed. Now there's a guy. He's a bruiser. He's a flat out bruiser. And he wants us dead. No,

no, we can't say that. He listened to the podcast. So I, you know, I know we don't listen to two. He listened to the rockabilly guys episode of the Dave Navarro episode. Okay.

Well, that's what we know. I, I, he commented at some point, we're talking so much about this guy. He's just a person, but,

but I love him as well, but he did comment somewhere that he listens and likes the podcast like he and somewhere in the thread yeah he so he may be listening here shout out to you pdx on the end of your name i forget the rest we love you uh jesse that thank you for doing this show with me it was so cool to have you on for real joy i also did it with chris technically yeah this doesn't count um chris a fake canadian it's just this weird thing he does i live and was born in the country yeah well we've all we all know there's no west coast of canada that is not that's another weird claim that you make honestly brian i am there's like a part of me that wonders if canada is a myth i you know jesse you know

people but i even graham from your friend i love dave and graham from stop podcasting yourself but they might just be in seattle yeah i'm telling i've been to dave's place i recorded an episode of stop podcasting yourself it's in vancouver gra Graham lives there too. We did Judge John Hodgman in Vancouver, but I remember that we flew to Seattle. Exactly. That's oftentimes just easier to do it that way. It's northern Seattle. I'm not saying, look, Chris, I'm not saying that it isn't real.

I wouldn't say that. I'm just saying there's a part of me that wonders. And I think it's really important to ask questions. I'm just a guy asking questions. Have you ever heard of a little guy by the name of Mike Myers? Yeah. New York. Live from New York.

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Live from New York. It's Saturday night. I'm Mike Myers. Yep. That's how the intro goes. All the time.

Everybody would say their name. I'm Mike Myers. I'm Tim Hortons. Tim Hortons coffee. We're also huge fans of the Pentavarite down there. The Pentavarite. Is that the show he did recently?

Oh, that's his recent. He played like seven characters. I should watch watch it but i don't think i can do it i really wish him the best he gave me a lot of joy in my life oh he is yeah he's in austin powers and i loved austin powers of course you know what i watched austin powers about nine months ago it was hilarious it was fucking hilarious i was like oh good yeah that's why we all liked austin powers so much was how good it was. Two of the,

two of the most humiliating experiences of my being a parent was, uh, one, I told my daughter, I was like, Oh, you gotta see the naked gun. I mean,

this is, no, I already know it's the funniest movie I've ever seen. We made it 10 minutes in. It's just like i can't i just really so bad it was so embarrassing because i've watched airplane a number of times with my daughter and i laugh my ass off every single time i've watched all of police squad twice i haven't seen the naked gun since in a long time but i've watched all of the episodes of police squad that makes me feel sick with humiliation for you brian i can picture being in that moment as you're just so hopeful and

you look and you see her face and there's nothing i'm gonna turn her on to some wild shit this is the naked gun and then she didn't work she looks so angry that i would put it on same thing happened with wayne's world oh wow yeah and she's fucked up she has a good sense of humor and she is like it's not you know she's definitely so that's that is weird that kind of comedy doesn't translate to kids her age because they don't make it anymore one time my daughter asked my wife what her favorite movie of all time was and my wife said wayne's world and i don't think i've ever loved her more i saw that movie when it came out in the theater and i left the theater saying that is the funniest thing i've ever seen in my life but then when my daughter and my wife watched it i was like sitting in the room looking at my phone.

And I was like, wow, I can't. This is not great. I really like. No, I loved it. I watched it as an adult and still loved it. Well, Jesse, I got to tell you, I have a rule. Can I just say, Brian, fuck your wife, fuck your daughter. They can go suck a lemon.

Thank you. That's what I always do. No, they are almost always in the right. At the end of the day, honestly, I say this is an objective third party. Like he said to, oh, my wife's bothering me about taking naps in the daytime. She's hassling me. And then it turns out she's upset that he's wearing shoes at the bed. You see what I'm saying?

He leads on a little bit of it. Chris, I'm the co-host of the Judge John Hodgmanman podcast i know about husbands okay great they're great then they're smart and they're sweet they're doing their they're doing their thing it's just they're just doing so much more and so much less than their partners yeah i mean i yeah i mean i have a rule that i follow very closely and that rule is i never watch a movie twice so i only will ever watch a movie once and that makes it so every movie i see i kind of like because i'm like well at least i don't have to watch it again you know yeah and uh it's a great system brian i really you know you should write like a seven habits of highly successful people about that that is not i i could but people have an eight

i mean they don't know i have call it have an eight yep and i have my fan that i could teach people how to put uh tie downs from cars to hold your fan on a uh hamper so that it can hit you in the night. But hey, that's great. I'll just buy one that's the right height. All right, everyone. Thanks so much for listening. Thanks, guys. Thanks, Jesse. Is there anything you want to plug? Yeah, if people want to look, if people want to read about menswear, go to putthison.com. And I also have, I have like a vintage store, clothing and house stuff and jewelry mostly for men, but for all people, at

putthisonshop.com. So I hope people will go and look, I'm probably the only guy who's ever been on your show who has his own line of handmade pocket squares. Yeah, definitely. We mostly have real idiots on it. Well, yeah, maybe.

DB? No, I don't think he does there's no way he does but uh put this on shop.com for that i love it well thanks for doing it jesse but the show the show that people that like this show and don't aren't interested in menswear probably would like jordan jessico jordan jessico is the one where we talk shit and say nonsense silly nonsense and swear and talk about whether wario sauce means that it's Wario's cum. And it's wonderful. It is. Sauce is a cum word.

So thanks for doing it. And we will see you all next week. You can go to Patreon.com slash MurderXBrian. We have bonus shows. We do Guys Plus. Which is a podcast about guys. The podcast about guys. And we do Shockober over there uh

there's a whole bunch of old stuff there too and uh next week jam band guys so we will see you next week goodbye bye i always i'm gonna send you the audio