Habits and Hustle - Episode 294: Hen Mazzig: Is it Fashionable to be Pro Palestine?

Episode Date: November 17, 2023

In this bonus episode of Habits & Hustle, we explore the identity struggles within the Jewish community, the broad complexities of social justice, and the role of media in illuminating these issues with the Tel Aviv Institute Founder, Hen Mazzig. He shares his unique perspective on the importance of standing up and making our identities visible, echoing Harvey Milk's concept of "coming out" as Jewish.  Being Jewish in right now can be dangerous, but at the same time, it’s dangerous for the jewish community to hide your heritage. We discuss how to find a balance between the two. Hen also shares startling data on anti-LGBTQ+ sentiment within Palestine, underscores the urgent need for Jews to reclaim their own humanity, the critical role of media in the Israel-Gaza conflict, and how truth can be distorted by groups like Hamas. Hen Mazzig is a globally-recognized speaker, educator, digital influencer and the founder of Tel Aviv Institute. Over 100 million users have interacted with his online content, and he has appeared as an expert on Jewish issues on four continents, over 500 college campuses, BBC, The Washington Post, SkyNews, TEDx, and countless Shabbat dinners. What we discuss:  (00:01) - The Importance of Speaking Up (09:41) - Intersection of Queerness, Anti-Semitism, Social Justice (22:44) - Media's Role in Israel-Gaza Conflict (31:40) - Gaslighting, Hostages, and Ceasefire Discussion (38:08) - Israel and Anti-Semitism Perception (45:27) - The Miracle of Jewish Survival Find more from Jen:  Website: https://www.jennifercohen.com/ Instagram: @therealjencohen  Books: https://www.jennifercohen.com/books Speaking: https://www.jennifercohen.com/speaking-engagement Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I got his Tony Robbins you're listening to Habitson Hussle, Crescent. So today on Habitson Hussle we have Henna Zieg who is the senior fellow editor at Telev Eve Institute and who has been putting out tremendously this fantastic content with regards to what's happening with Israel and Gaza and And I really wanted to have a conversation with you because I've been, I'm a big fan of yours. Like I said earlier, before we started even recording, you really have been doing such a tremendous job on basically giving the real facts and history

of what's happening. And like I said, I couldn't be, I'm so grateful that you're having this conversation with me and my audience, so thanks for being here, Hen. Thanks for having me, it's a pleasure and thank you for everything you're doing. I mean, at this time, I feel like it's very hard for a lot of people to speak up for a whole lot of reasons,

but I mean, I don't think it was ever as more important as it is now. I mean, I'm glad that you said that because I want to get into all of that. I want it, but before I even do that, we just tell people what does the Tel Aviv Institute do and what do you do there? And so I think that's a good place to begin. Yeah, so the co-founder and senior fellow at Tel Aviv Institute, I, together with Dr. Ron Katz, is an expert of rhetoric and propaganda from

University, California, Berkeley, we founded the Institute, originally it was just a research institute that was meant to research online antisemitism and we found that there's a lot of hate online but we've transitioned from just researching the hate to coming up with solutions on how to combat it. So we were writing messaging that we find that is more effective to fighting antisemitism and misinformation about Jewish people, about Israel.

We are working with social media influencers, Jewish influencers to give them the language and the messaging that they need to speak up about these issues and supporting them in being more proud of their Jewish identity. We find that when people are more proud of their Jewish identity, antisemitism that surrounds their account is reducing tremendously. So if an influencer would hide his Jewish identity or hurt their Jewish identity, there would be more antisemitism around their account. When they speak up about antis about being Jewish, we see that hate speech from their followers reducing a lot. So that's what we're aiming to do. Oh, I didn't even realize that. First of all, I feel like there's definitely not enough people speaking out because of fear, fear of being canceled, losing followers, all the such.

I didn't realize what you do is you create messaging around that for people, first of all. That's, I mean, you can help me because I mean, I'm having a lot of problems, but I will say that I said, I tend to agree. I feel like, to cower, like, and I feel like a lot of what's happening right now is people are scared, we're making excuses,

and they're, as opposed to being strong and proud. And so, before we started this podcast, you said, no, let me go get my McGendivite so I can wear it. That kind of put a smile on my face because there is such a fear of people being proud of their Judaism. Some of it actually, to be honest, is now because of what's happening, there's reason behind it. Because look at the violence that's happening. Look what's happening, there's reason behind it. Look at the violence that's happening.

Look what's happening at these, I'm Canadian, my nieces go to Concordia University and just a couple days ago, there was a whole thing happening there. There's shootings in Jewish schools. I mean, there is some element of why there is fear. How do you balance that out between being proud of being Jewish, but also being somewhat like diligent in the fact that you have a family, you've got kids. Where is that happy balance of being proud and being careful? Yeah, that's a very good point. And the reason that we're so focused on Jewish pride and empowering Jewish voices is because of that, it's very hard to be openly Jewish today, not only because of canceling, as you said,

it's also because of real threat to your safety. I mean, we're hearing Jewish people changing their names on their Uber app or removing Mazusa. Yeah, that's why it was so important for me to put the star of David on and always wearing it when I go in the street. And I live in London and it's not a safest place to be going around with the star of David this days,

which is a horrific statement by itself, but I think that being ashamed or hiding ourselves and who we are will not help us. I'm taking a picture out of Harvey Milk's ideas, as a gay person, I know that if you're not speaking about your gay identity to people and you're not open about it, it's going to contribute to a lot of stereotypes. And a lot of times when I hear homophobic things being set around me, I have two options. They're speaking up or not. And if I won't speak up,

no one else would. And I think it's true of a so-for-juice. In a sense, I call it coming out as Jewish. I think it's very important for us to speak up. Because once we speak up about our identity and we are showing the world who we are, all the innuendos, all the lies, everything that people are saying about us are being shattered by us existing. Just the fact that you would go to the supermarket

or the grocery store with the star of David, people would see, oh, this is a person that we see around us there. We are such a tiny minority. Most people haven't even met at you in their life. Or if they did, they didn't know. But we can fix it by speaking up, by having conversation, by just putting a true star on your bio. That's a big step forward. Like that's what I encourage a lot of people to do, to just not be afraid, because this fear is contributing to a lot of those lies

and misinformation about Jews and antisemitism to go out and checked. Also, it shows a level of weakness and I feel like what we have been doing as group is we're a couple, because we are compassionate, we're ethical and we've lost, it's getting lost in translation because we're not fighting fire with fire.

And it comes across as being weak, as opposed to being more militant and being much more serious and aggressive, just in the same way that the other side is being, right? Because look what they're creating, right? They're creating with their louder, they're more aggressive, they're more assertive, and it's inviting other people to join along versus what we're doing as the Jewish people. And that's why I tend to agree

and what I've done is I've gone full on full force and have I gotten backlash, yes. But at the same time, what I want to tell people, and what I tell people all the time when they stay to me something, I say, you know what? Honestly, it actually eliminates the fodder. It gets rid of the people that you honestly at your core you have nothing in common with.

And it brings people who you are very similar to, closer together. That's how you build a true tribe in my opinion. You get people, I've made a lot of friendships and relationships with people I otherwise would never have even known because of what's happened. And yes, have I lost other people? Yes, but then in the day, they weren't my people anyway.

So it doesn't matter. Yeah, no, it's so true. I mean, I've lost a lot of friends. People, I mean, I'm as Israeli as they come and Jewish as they come. Right. Still people were shocked that I'm standing up for myself. But I mean, I'm thinking about all the other social justice causes that I've supported over the years. And I still support, I mean, I even if they don't support me, I still support the quality and justice because that's who I am. I'm not being defined by the people that

hate me. But I'm thinking, you know, I stood up for those causes because I think I was inspired by seeing people standing up for themselves. No one is gonna stand up for us if we can stand up for ourselves. And I think if we want to get a support from everyone,

we have to be the ones leading the chart. No one can do it for us. And I think that's why I saw a few campaigns calling non-Jews to feel bad for us or to feel sympathy. And I don't think that's what should lead us. And I think that's why I saw a few campaigns calling non-juice to feel bad for us or to feel sympathy. And I don't think that's what should lead us. We need to, people need to support us because it's in their best interest, not only because it's the right thing to do and it's the just thing to do. And they need to do it. It's not because of sympathy or because they feel sad, but I don't want them to hide me. I want them to stand

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feel like feel bad for me, look at me, poor me because I think that's getting the wrong messaging out as well. And I think it's interesting because when this first happened, I feel like that's what the wrong messaging out as well. And I think it's interesting because when this first happened, I feel like that's what me and a lot of people were doing because we were kind of kind of shake people. Don't you see what's happening? Like it's black or if this is a black and white situation,

it's not gray, it's good versus evil. Don't you see, look, and then you're trying to prove your point. And eventually you have to kind to let that go and realize that you're basically speaking to an echo chamber. People are gonna believe what they wanna wanna believe and that's not effective, right? And so I like that you said that. Can I issue a question?

Because you said something a little bit earlier that I'm very curious about. Like why is it you said something a little bit earlier that I I'm very curious about, you know, like, why is it you said that you were you're a gay Israeli man? Why is it that there are so many people like did you see the the queers for Palestine? Like do they not understand that they would not last four and a half seconds if they went to Gaza? What is going on? Like, someone sent me something actually yesterday it said, Queers for Palestine, their name would, it would, it would be, was, were, versus, you know, whatever, it would be.

Because there's such, there's so many disconnects. How, can you explain this to me? As, I don't get it. I really don't. Yeah, it's a, it's a hard one to understand or to comprehend. But I think that for a long time, there's been a campaign of creating this idea that Palestinians are the ultimate oppressed people.

And of course, we know that in society, because of anti-Semitism, Jewish people are perceived to be the most powerful people. So it worked perfectly with this campaign, the idea that LGBTQ people have to fight for every other press minority. And of course, pasting as I also pressed. So they have to stand with them, even if they would kill them for their identity. And it is bizarre. And you know, I wasn't want to ever say that, send them to Gaza or say this stuff, but because I

don't think that, you know, it's not, you can support a cause even if you disagree on some issues. But I think it's really telling that this people would take, you know, would weaponize their LGBTQ identity to fight for people that literally oppose their, their own identity. And it's not just a fringe case. It's not just, you know, one case of people being killed in Palestine or in Gaza. It's systematic. That homophobia and anti LGBTQ plusGBTQ plus ideas in the Palestinian society are so prevalent that 93% of Palestinians think that being gay is immoral. And that's according to pure research.

That has nothing to do with Israel. They just, that's what they believe in. Just last year, the international organizations, the UN, was asking Palestinian workers in Gaza because the UN is run by Palestinians in Gaza. They asked them to sign a statement that says that every person has basically gender equality in LGBTQ plus rights statement and they rejected it and all of the leaders of every working union and every organization in Gaza were saying don't let us discriminate against

LGBTQ people, we want to continue doing it. And instead of calling that out and that's that's where I would understand if you want to use your queer identity to speak up about Issues of LGBTQ inequality absolutely do that now would be supporting you for doing that But if you weaponizing your identity to fight for a political cause that have nothing to do with it And in fact is actually pushing our struggle back so many years Then I find it to be ridiculous. And I think that they should not only be ashamed of themselves, but they're actually harming Palestinian queer people because they are allowing the oppression of Palestinian queer people because they found some anonymous

account online that said to them that they are queer. We know they're not there. The Palestinian queer people would not go online and speak about their identity. They're too afraid because the alternative is being their head cut off and that's what happened to them and that's the saddest part. I mean, is it ignorance though? Is it that people just don't know what they're even saying or what they're chanting or what they're believing in and they just kind of are going along with, you know, with being

just someone who is fighting for social injustice. That's one part of my question. The other part of my question is when and how did with social injustice come the anti-Semitism has become the antithesis of that? Again, that's another disconnect. Yeah. I mean, the truth is that standing up for Jewish people has never been popular.

You know, anti-Semitism is always the popular cause. And that's the other ridiculous lie that they feel like they're very brave to go against Israel or against Jews. But that's the reality of anti-Semitism. It's always shape-shifting. And if in the past it was Jews are stealing your work. Now, it's Jews are controlling your economy,

Jews are in Hollywood, or Jews are in all those places of power, and not to appreciate it or to celebrate it. You know, people don't like when Jews are succeeding, or like there are Haron's, Spokas, people like that Jews, and it's coming from the idea that we shouldn't have power. When we have power, when Jews have power, people feel very uncomfortable with that. They want us to be victims.

That's why this campaign of a hydemy for Jewish people that it did well with non-Tews, because for them, they want to feel bad for Jews, and then that's when they would feel comfortable with us. But it's not going to help the Jewish community to victimize ourselves. And I think that in general, in social justice movement, the notion that Jews are this all-powerful people,

superhuman, has been so prevalent in so many of those movements. And I think it's a wake-up call for a lot of us in the progressive circles that are thinking, wait, we've completely have been dehumanized to the point that people don't even care if little girls are being violated and babies are being beheaded, that they would just say, okay, that's, I want to see proof. And even if they see proof, it's not enough, or they would take down posters of babies that are kidnapped. I mean, to get to the point that you would see

that poster of a baby and that has been kidnapped and to take it down, imagine the amount of and that has been kidnapped and to take it down. Imagine the amount of campaigning and propaganda and brainwashing this people have gone through to the point that they see us as so not human and see anything that is done against us as legitimate because we are all powerful. And I think that's what we have to change. We have to fight for our humanity.

There's a campaign of demonization and Jewish people have to fight against it. Absolutely. Did you see the campaign with our video, a reel? I think it maybe I've seen it on your page, because I keep on reposting everything that you do. I ended up reposting. The guy was a pro-Palestinian protest,

and the guy put an Israeli flag on a dog, basically signifying that we're dogs, you know, we're animals, Jewish people. And again, it's become so desensitized. Nobody even looks at that anymore as something that is horrific or awful. Like the entire messaging has become so skewed. Now, you've been doing this Tel Aviv Institute for how many years? I've told you yesterday I started about four years ago, but I've been involved in this. I mean, I served for five years as a humanitarian officer to the Palestinian civilians in the West Bank,

and I worked a bit in Gaza, and then after that I've started to be involved in the world of advocating for Israel and Jews, so we're doing it for over 12 years now. Now, how much, I mean, because you said yourself, like we've always had a lot of anti-Semitism, people have always hated Jews. What have you, like, has so this obviously doesn't surprise you, because it surprised me. I think it's surprising a lot of people,

maybe because of the naivety we have, like the naivete that we never experienced it before or saw it in our generation. So when it started to happen to this level, I think it's been very eye opening. Is there like researcher data showing the percentage of how much worse it is now than it was even five years ago that you could share?

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, according to the anti-deformation league that actually researched it, or actually, even according to the FBI, the Jewish people are the most targeted minority community of all of the religiously motivated hate crimes in America. And we're the smallest group. So there's more attacks against Jews.

I think it's 60 something percent of the religiously motivated hate crimes are against the Jewish community in America that are what 0.2% of the population but still are the majority. And it's getting worse every year. And I think I've seen it getting worse from a point that people were just on the fringe. And now it's becoming more mainstream and more consensus. And we're seeing it on MSNBC and on the New York times and we're seeing more and more voices that used to be so radical. I remember in 2019 or 2016 where I was speaking in, I was doing speaking tourism campuses in America and there were maybe

one or two people protesting outside because I'm Israeli but now it's so and that's a problem when you're not fighting something that is on the fringe, tomorrow it's going to be in the center of the conversation. And that's what we're seeing today. And I think the Jewish community has not gave enough focus to fighting this. And I think now we realize that, I mean, I've been shouting on every rooftop I could that this is a problem and it's getting worse, but now it's, I mean, the numbers are that it's the worst year in history of anti-Semitic hate crimes in America since the Holocaust. Not indulging this time of the year can honestly feel like a crime.

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But do you have any plan of action? How we can do this as someone who's been doing this for a long time. Yeah, we're, I was just on a call before this podcast with a few leaders in the Jewish community that are looking to create something larger. It will allow Jewish people to get the tools to speak up. I think that's a big thing that is missing. That's what I've been trying to do with my platform for the last month. And I've been working and I stop been trying to do with my platform for the last month. I've been working nonstop every day to create content and come up with the language that I feel like people need in this time and to address issues that are out there. I would say it's very important that we continue speaking of. I mean, there is a plan. We're thinking of, we have an idea of a platform that would be an online one that will allow Jewish people to communicate and support one another and increase our visibility.

I think that's what missing right now. I think the Jewish people just need the words to fight or to speak up, basically. And I want to tell people not to be afraid of speaking up, because we feel like, oh, if I don't know the history exactly, or if I don't know the numbers or the statistics, so maybe I'm not the right person to speak up. But the truth is that on the other side, they don't care about statistics or numbers or facts,

and they still speak up. And if we want to speak up, they would be the ones that are dominating. So I think it's up to us to really speak about it. And again, the pride is so important. And I was just sharing the story, but I'll share it. It's a quick one. But I started learning how to learn how to swim this year.

Never know how to swim. I don't know. It wasn't something that I did as a kid. And my swimming instructors kept saying that when I swim, I fold myself inside. And he said, instead, you have to really open your chest and be almost proud in the water. And he said, it's very intuitive that there's water around you. You feel like you're going to sink. So you're curling yourself inside.

But when you do that, you're just falling deeper. And the water is going to surround you. And there's not going to be a way for you to float. So I think for us, and that's the analogy, is that the Jewish people feel like we are in deep water, there's so much hate around us, and if we just curl in and be quiet, maybe we could float or maybe it will just pass, and it's not going to. The only way to fight it is by being probably being without chest up open, and I thought about it the other day. And I think it's really what we need to do right now. It's the more juice pick up, the easier it will be

for the rest of us. And it's also for, we need to honor our ancestors. We need to honor our ancestors that survived genocide and survived the most horrific attacks on the Jewish people in history that we can think of. And they've survived because they didn't bow down and they kept fighting and they kept celebrating life. That's what we need to do is Jewish people to honor them

and for the future generations. I love that. Thank you. And I like that analogy of the swimming because it's true, right? That's great. I also wanted to talk to you about something that just happened yesterday, a recent yesterday saw,

because you do so much, you don't really post anything unless you do a lot of background checking, fact checking, and that's what I really admire about you. I wanted to ask you something about the idea that I saw photojournalists, journalists from CNN, AP routers who were there on March on October 7th watching the massacre, videoing, basically videoing the massacre. Now, is that actually accurate? Was is that true? And then you see this picture, by the way, one of the photojournalists kissing one of the Hamas terrorists. Now, I didn't know if that was that was so disturbing.

Is that accurate information? Yeah, I mean, if they were there when the massacre happened, they were at the border. There were videos of one photojournalist holding a grenade, but it's important to understand that those photojournalists, the journalists in Gaza, they're local ones, are prognolists. And just like any other prognolian in Gaza,

they are also afraid of Khamas. And a lot of them are also embedded in some of those projects. So I heard, I think it was one of the Israeli members of the parliament said that if a journalist is participating in a massacre or even documenting the kidnapping of innocent civilians without stopping it, without calling for help, they're complicit. And I think that's true. I mean, yes, of course, journalists have the responsibility to document it, to send out information. But it's there, and the reason that I haven't posted about it

is because I wasn't, I'm not fully sure, I mean, of course it's terrible, but I'm just still trying to find out more information to make sure that it's the clearest way possible to people, because it is horrific when people are participating in something like this without stopping it, but it's also the responsibility that they have to take photos of it. However, how did they know to be there at 6am and to take photos and videos and why does one of the journalists is holding a grenade in his hand and why are you kissing the leader of Hamas. And then some journalists from Reuters and others have said that the reason that for this

photo with the leader of Hamas, a designated service organization in every Western country, is that they were trying to get closer to them or they were trying to get closer to sources of information. I don't buy this either. I think that if you are a journalist, you have to have respect some standards. So I know that CNN and AP have announced that they're not going to work with this journalist and AP actually remove some of the photos,

but it's telling you a bigger story here, the automatic belief of everything that coming out of Gaza, without it realizing that Hamas is the one that is controlling both the journalist, the international organization. And we saw that the international media used to cover their casualties and say, it's the Gaza Ministry of Health. And we knew that it was Hamas, and a lot of people said, this is Hamas. And then they changed it.

And they said, well, it's actually numbers are coming from Save the Children. Save the Children in Gaza is run by Palestinians that are in the same situation like any other Palestinian Gaza. They live under Hamas rule. And if Hamas finds out that they are saying something that they don't like, they're going to kill them. They've done that. And then they change it to the UN, but also the UN is run by Palestinians in Gaza.

So there's really no credible source of information. That's why the numbers of the casualties are identical to the ones of the of Hamas, that the ones that are the international community is reporting. But we know it's fake. We know it from the Al-Hali hospital where in October 17th, the hospital was blew up. Well, the parking lot of the hospital, the first claim was that Israel did it and the numbers were 600, 700, 800 people were killed when they thought they could blame it on Israel. But then when the truth came out that it was actually the passing Islamic jihad, it was behind it, the number is closer to 12. So I think that's really

the whole misinformation campaign of Hamas, there are masters in manipulating and terrorizing not only physically but also mentally, and that's what they're doing now as well. I mean, it really was mind-boggling when I saw the fact that those journalists from CNN, AP, routers were there an hour early waiting waiting for them to come and do the massacre. And to me, you said, you said, well, CNN is not going to use the pictures now or they're not going to do that. Who cares? That's not the point. The point is there is an ethical responsibility or you are considered to be complete. That means they knew beforehand that this was happening and then nobody's

taking action more action towards these people. I mean, that to me is just mind-boggling. And then the other part of this is the fact that he was like the kissing and holding of the hand grenade. Why is the FBI not talking to them? Why is nothing happening beyond basically seeing it and saying they're not going to use a foot, the pictures. And to me, that's not enough. And also, did you see that thing about New York Times when the guy, there was another person that they hired,

even though he spoke that he was anti-Semitic and he hated Jews, and now they rehired him to be out there basically reporting on this. Like what is going on here? It's crazy, and it's coming from everywhere, and it's this idea that Palestinians cannot be how accountable, right? It's ideas that if there is war crimes and violation of international law, Palestinians will never be out of the countable. We're not even talking about what Hamas did.

We're immediately speaking about whether or not Israel use some lightning bombs that have some white phosphorus in them. And if that's violating international law, you know what violating international law, raping little girls and beheading babies, like that's violating international law. And the media is completely ignoring it. And they're ignoring anti-Semitism in a way that is unforgivable and I think the Jewish community must speak up about it but it's true, it's just, it's mind-boggling but it's the state that we are and we're at and I think that's why it's so bad and so scary.

The fact that that's not even made a bigger of a deal, like the fact that, you know, maybe if people are posting it, some Jewish people are posting about it yesterday, but I have not seen anybody else talk about it in a grander scale, and it's just being like repressed and just kind of buried like everything else. I mean, that to me in itself is just horrifying. Just I don't even know, I guess the truth is, like how do you even fight that? Like how do, like how do the Israel even attempt to fight that type of media propaganda? And the fact that now that we even know that there's potential that they knew about this

even beforehand, what do you do? Hand, and I'm looking to you. Yeah, and I appreciate it. And I try to give all the answers that I can. But the truth is that I, with all my experience, I'm also a bit at a loss of words for some of the things that I can. But the truth is that I, with all my experience, I'm also a bit at a loss of words for some of the things that we're seeing. I mean, Jennifer, we're still asking if a chant for the genocide of Jewish people, if it's a bad thing or not. I mean, we have

countless people that are debating if it's, if under 70s, it's okay or not. We have, you know, the media is a big part of it. The international organizations are part of it and the younger generation is a part of it and the congress is a part of it. Some congress people are part of it. So it's just a massive fight and I think we can all just do our part and I'm trying to do my part. You're doing your part. I think speaking up is cannot be underestimated because it's so important. I mean, every post, every time we put something out there, it makes such a huge difference. I see it. I see how the conversation is changing by us just putting this information out there.

And I think even that, this issue with the photographers is a big deal. And it's going to make people think twice now when they read information from Gaza. And that's what the Hamas and their, you know, the Hamas not doing it by themselves. They have support from Iran and from Russia, but a lot of their campaign on social media is to so doubt in people's minds and to, I mean, the reason that there's so many bots that asks us for a proof of if a girl has been violated or not or the baby's is another way of distracting us from the real conversation. Why are we even defending that? Why are we telling people that a girl was actually violated? Why do they want to see a video of a girl

being violated? Whenever did that happen? And meanwhile, we know that Hamas is controlling the journalists in Gaza and we know that they're faking a lot of the information and a lot of the photos that we're seeing out of there. And yet, it is true that a lot of Pasini and Suffer is important to recognize that, but they're suffering because of Hamas. Hamas can end all of this tomorrow. If they just release the hostages and surrender, like we ask from every leaders of terror group, that's what the goal is. And that's what America was doing in every time it's part of war. That's why that's what the UK was doing. Britain was doing in World War II. They demanded the Nazi surrender. And that's what Israel is doing now. We're demanding

Hamas with surrender and give us the hostages. That's, I mean, the fact that the hostages are not even the main part of the story. The 240 people are held in tunnels in Gaza and we're hearing ideas of, oh well, Israel is going to bomb them. No, they're underground in Gaza. We know exactly where they are. Israel is not bombing them and the Palestinians that are living there and refuse to leave because of Hamas or Hamas not letting them, but again, heartbreaking tragic. What would you want us to do? What would you do if it was your son, your mother, your family member, held in Gaza underground. Would you say to your leaders, oh, well, you know, just be careful because it doesn't matter. My kids can rot

underground in tunnels. Like, how are we even having this conversation? But I think all of it is just a it's meant to distract us and meant to make us and it's exhausting. It's mentally exhausting to go over and over again on this thing. At this point, I just, whenever someone is trying to guess like me, I'm just blocking them or restricting them. Restricting them. I think everyone should do that. I mean, if you don't waste time on justifying to people that can't see your humanity,

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And trust me, you will thank me for this later. I totally agree. I think people, it's like, it's part of the, it's part of the PR plan or the tactics is to gaslight you, distract you, to make you defend what you shouldn't even have to be defending. And the entire messaging, I mean, very true. I don't want to even talking about where the hostages are, release the hostages.

All I hear is ceasefire, ceasefire, but yes, but what about the hostages? And again, we can talk all day about the propaganda and the nonsense what's going on. And at this point, I guess we're all at a loss at this point. Right? We can only do what we can do and keep on speaking as loud as we can. And really try to implore people to keep on speaking. We could just talk about the hostages for one second here. Because again, there's not enough coverage, I think, on the hostages. How did that message get so just suppressed? Like, why is it, even

why is the main new source is not even talking about that when they talk about a ceasefire? Yeah, I mean, like over 200 people, like over 200 babies, when elderly women, I spoke yesterday to a mother that her child, if it doesn't get as injection once a month, is going to suffer from severe allergy. And she's worried because he's missing two shots at this point. I spoke to a father that his children and his wife are three children and his wife are held in Gaza by Hamas. And I mean, I'm trying to think for a second of the human catastrophe and like,

I'm just trying to put myself, I would never be able to, but to put myself in his shoes and try to understand what they've been going through, you know, a second is too much, a minute is too much to have your kids held by this people, to have your daughter held by people that violated her in gunpoint in tunnels.

And we're not talking about it. The media is not talking about it. We're forgetting about it. And those people suffer so much. And it has to be the center of the conversation right now. It can't be about, I'm sorry, it can't be about anything else. Of course, every human life is important. And I don't accept that the idea that we should kill people

because of that. But we should eliminate Hamas. And if people get hurt because they haven't evacuated or because Hamas has held them over the where the hostages are being kept, that's on Hamas. It's definitely not on Israel. And we shouldn't be the ones explaining it. We shouldn't be the ones that are even engaging

in this conversation. It's all Hamas. You have problem with the casualties in Gaza. You need to address it to Hamas. What you can do right now is pressure on Hamas to release the hostages. When we speak about ceasefire, people need to realize you can't just shout ceasefire, because ceasefire means to those families that the certain death of their kids, the certain death of their family members. If we will cease fire with an organization that is committed, some of the worst atrocities, some of the worst crimes against humanity is that we've seen in modern time anywhere in the world. If you are advocating for a cease fire, you are advocating to kill those people and we

can't allow this to happen. Israel has the responsibility, not the right, and that's really important. Israel has not about Israel having the right and does have the right according to international law to fight and when Hamas is using a hospital as a shelter for their bombs, this hospital is no longer protected according to Geneva Convention, but I'm not even going there. Israel has the responsibility to each and every citizen to bring back those children, those babies, those families. It doesn't matter anything else, else doesn't go into this,

and it's not even part of the conversation. The most important thing right now is that we bring back those hostages. And to call for a ceasefire before their home is the most morally repugnant thing you can do. I could not agree with you more. And when people say that, it just, again, this whole thing has been completely,

like a mind-boggling experience. Why did they even, like, in Europe, I'm curious, why did they even release two of the hostages? Like, the three of hostages they did. Like, what was the purpose to show that they're nice guys? Like, I'm confused by this. But look how psychologically Kuku this is. People thought, oh, nice. They're, that's so nice of them.

They've actually let a couple of few of them go. They're forgetting that we have 240 more that they've slaughtered 1,400 people. Like, doesn't that even itself tell you something? Yeah, yeah, you're spot on. I mean, that's the psychological thing. That's what they're doing. They're releasing to, and they're giving hopes to the rest of the families. And then they release a video of some hostages that were calling on Netanyahu

to stop the war, which is, we know that they're held in gunpoints by Hamas and Hamas is forcing them to say that. And then they're saying that they might really smore. And then a few days ago, they said they're going to release 50, then they said they're going to release 13, then they say foreign nationalities because they know that this would create a divide between Israel and the world if they would only release the foreign nation and the ones that have foreign nationality, then maybe Israel would get into everything Hamas is doing is meant to to psychologically terrorize the world and Jews around the world and Israelis and that's why we can't fall into it and we have to demand that all of their as to us would be released. And that would mean ceasefire.

Again, when we speak about releasing the hostages, that's the only way to end this war. And the war is not on the table until those families are back. Then we can speak about ceasefire. Then I would actually have a conversation about ceasefire. But first of all, the hostages have to be back home. Gosh, I couldn't agree with you more. And then my other question is,

why hasn't Israel taken the same approach by now that they are using in terms of getting, using AI, using all these things? Like you basically fighting fire with fire. You know, like it's like the David and Goliath thing, right? Like we are still, they're still trying to play this ethical, compassionate kind approach and it's not working. And they

are strong. You would think because people have this ideology in their head that they're like these people living in these tunnels and they're uneducated and they're dumb and they're not shrewd and they're just like learning how to shoot. But these people are very strategic, super smart and cunning because they know exactly what to do to have that psychological warfare, exactly how to get people to sympathize with them. I mean, this is really like, this is a case study that I've never seen before in my life. Yeah, and I keep saying I always choose control the media because then maybe the media would be on our side. Yeah, exactly.

The irony, believe it, hasn't been lost on me. It's unbelievable. Yeah, I mean, I think I do understand the argument that a lot of Israeli officials that I've spoke to are making that, you know, our identity is not like there is. Our values are different. And we recognize, there is, I mean, our identity is not like there's, our values are different. And we reckon that there's, I mean, like Hamas, we have a different set of values that are leading us.

And that's why they're not covered by me and Gaza. By the way, when people speak about genocide, if Israel wanted to do a genocide, Israel could have done that. It's not a problem for Israel to destroy everything in Gaza and not leaving one person alive. And I completely reject that. It's not what we should do. It's not what we're doing. That's why it's not a genocide. This idea, this notion, it's a genocide, or that Israel has some sinister agenda of taking over Gaza. And we were just waiting for that. Like, Israel has no interest in controlling Gaza. I mean, Israel has so much, I mean, yeah, it's just the fact that we have to discuss it, but it's important to say it because...

No, we have to say it's important to say it because I feel like, like, but you're talking to like, you're talking to like an eco-chamber, I guess, an eco-chamber because how many times have I said in the gas lady, we left in 2005, we handed them the keys, we said, here you go, they've been given billions of dollars to do whatever the hell they wanted. And instead of building an infrastructure, they built weapons and all sorts of mass destruction to kill Jewish people. And yet, as many times as you say that, people still say, you guys, you Jewish people, you as rarely as are committing genocide. Are you kidding me? Like, again, like, that's why like to your point, the messaging has nothing to do with anything.

If you basically just want to hate Jews, just say what it is. That's exactly what it is. Yeah, they're saying what it is. They're saying from the root of... Exactly. You know, they're not evenizing it. They're not. That's what I'm saying.

They're very blunt. You know what I mean? But yeah, we're trying to prove them like, no, no, you don't understand it. That doesn't work. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I've seen that interview on how in those marches in London every Saturday, there's a march of the re-Palestine march they call it, but the old chanting genocidal chants. And it's and someone was saying, I think it was Peer's Morgan was asking was asked like about it. And he said, well, you know, they're not all pro Hamas. And then the person he was interviewing said, well, you know, if you go once to a protest and you see people chanting for the racist slogans

about black people, you probably wouldn't go next week, right? And if you go on the next week, and they still chant the same chance, the same general asylum, you might not go the third time, but it's the fourth week that there were over a hundred arrests over anti-Semitic slogans and jihadist flags that were weighed ISIS, ISIS like flags. And people still go. And that's like, that so your, your issue is not with Israel, your issue is clearly not with peace, going to a hate fast, knowing exactly what you're going to receive there, and you're supporting it. So I think, you know, at this point, there's not really even a benefit of the doubt for anyone that stands with us, because this is not about Palestine, it's not about peace,

it's not about coexistence, it's just about saying everything you can to defame the Jewish nation, which is Israel, there aren't any other Jewish statutes in the world. It's 0.03% of the Middle East. There are many Arab countries in the Middle East. Yes, Palestinians are Arabs. I don't think any of them are going to deny it. And it's a different conversation to have. But I think people have completely forgot

and the conflict has been twisted so much, this geopolitics, to the point that people think that seven million Jews in Israel are oppressing billions of Muslims in the Middle East. And that this one tiny Jewish state is oppressing 22 Arab countries that are part of the Arab League and imperial force. And Israel is actually an empire, they're saying.

And while Hamas is calling for a genocide, explicitly calling for a genocide, acting on it, we are the ones that are being accused of genocide. Instead of them having to prove that there are 10,000 people that were killed, we are the ones that need to be proved to that are tasked with proving something that they streamed to the world to see. And they're still saying that we're lying. I mean, the world is completely upside down.

You know, the world's crazy is what it is. That's what I'm saying. Like if you actually look at these things fact to fact, that's why I have to day, it's so hard for me to focus on anything else because of the, I'm so outraged by the complete nonsense that what I'm seeing in the world. Like, I'm actually just shocked.

Like, you have these guys who are GoProing what happened. Like, literally GoPro, they want you to see it. They've actually shown the world, hey world, look what we did. And yet people are still like, yeah, I don't believe it, it's fake news. Like, what is going on, Hen? What is going on?

It's insane. And I think it's also what has to do with this generation of people that online, when they see someone with big follow-ins and get a lot of engagement they want to do the same. It's young people mostly that are not really educated and my friend how I was saying it yesterday how it's a people that's not cinnamon for cloud. And this is that interview. Yeah, you posted it. Yeah, yeah, I did. It's just a point. Like it's people that eat type pods and and videotape

themselves and then put it up on on social media. And they get a lot of likes and people and people engage. Well, I think that's the generation that is about how will I get this capital of likes and engagement. And it's by being anti-Semitic, it's by being anti-Israel, I mean TikTok is encouraging it so that's you know. That's what's happening. They're actually the algorithm it's favoring anything that says anti-Israel and so therefore it's much more

favorable for them to do that. I saw that interview it was so funny because she's like don't be getting your facts from your hairstylist. You know, or like it was, I thought she did a great job with that interview. You know, I was really funny. That was great. Like in a time when, it gave me some levity in a crazy time right now, but.

Like everyone needed it. She was a comedian and it was like, you know, that's our superpowers, Jews. It's all about finding ways to laugh. Well, that's exactly it. I mean. It's all about finding ways to laugh. That's exactly it. I mean, I love, and she made me laugh. So I think we're done. I think I asked, I showed you my outrage.

And you basically did a great job in trying to calm me down or give us some examples of telling people, Jews be proud, be loud, don't be ashamed, don't let gaslighting stop you, like don't waste your time with that, be more productive. I think that, like I said, I really appreciate you being on this podcast and I think we kind of just, you kind of gave me

all the stuff I need. So like again, I commend you for doing a great job and keep going. Thank you. No, I mean, I just, if doing a great job and keep going. Thank you. No, I mean, I just, if I have to finish with one thing, is to remind people, remind the Jewish listeners and our allies that it's, we've been through so much in history. I mean, we're, I posted that how we've, you know, we came out of the ashes and we rose up like phoenix.

We are, we are a miracle. To be Jewish in a life is a miracle. It's nothing short of magic. And no matter what they've done to us, we always not only survive, we thrive every time. And it doesn't matter how hard they try. And Hamas is not going to be the ones that are going to end us. And people on Tik Tok are not going to be the ones that are going to end Jews.

And their main comments are not going to make us doubt ourselves. We're going to continue fighting. And that's what that's the meaning of Amisah Khai, the people of Israel live. We continue living and nothing's going to stop that or change that. Thank you. I love that. Thank you, Han.

You've been so nice and gracious. I appreciate it. So nice to meet you. Thank you for coming on here. Guys, leave me some comments. If you have any questions, leave them in the comments. And again, thank you so much for being on the podcast. Thanks for having me.

This episode is brought to you by the YAP Media Podcast Network. I'm Halitaha, CEO of the award-winning Digital Media Empire YAP Media, and host of YAP Young & Profiting Podcast, a number one entrepreneurship and self-improvement podcast where you can listen, learn, and profit. On Young & Profiting Podcast, I interview the brightest minds in the world, and I turn their wisdom into actionable advice that you can use in your daily life. Each week, we dive into a new topic like the art of side hustles, how to level up your influence and persuasion and goal setting.

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