Habits and Hustle - Episode 301: Mosab Hassan Yousef: 'Son of Hamas' Gives Unbelievable Interview on The Israeli-Palestinian Conflict and Exposes Hamas

Episode Date: December 12, 2023

In this episode, the podcast delves into the life of Mosab Hassan Yousef, a man who grew up as the son of a Hamas founder and later became a spy for Israel. The conversation reveals his upbringing in a strict Muslim family, his life in Hamas, and the dramatic shift that led him to work for Israeli intelligence. He gives an inside look into the intricacies of the Hamas mission, its roots in the Muslim Brotherhood, and the tribal mentality that fuels the Israel-Palestine conflict. The episode continues with a discussion about the convoluted relationship between Israeli intelligence and Hamas, offering a rare glimpse into the tactics used to navigate a complex political landscape. Mosab also provides insights into the future of Gaza, the threats posed by Hamas, and the potential ramifications for the Palestinian Authority. His candid account sheds light on the harsh realities of the Israel-Palestine conflict and the rise of anti-Semitism. What we discuss:  (00:01) - Son of Hamas and Muslim Brotherhood (12:39) - Childhood Trauma and Arab Culture (28:18) - Hamas Brutality and the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict (41:50) - Undercover Operations and Manipulation Within Hamas (54:26) - From Hatred to Espionage (59:42) - Revealing Involvement With Israeli Intelligence (01:04:53) - The Orchestrated Operation to Manipulate Hamas (01:14:40) - Barbaric Massacre and Hamas Brutality (01:30:18) - Analysis of Hatred and Palestinian Conflict Find more from Jen: Website: https://www.jennifercohen.com/ Instagram: @therealjencohen  Books: https://www.jennifercohen.com/books Speaking: https://www.jennifercohen.com/speaking-engagement Find more from Mosab: Instagram: @mosab_hassanyousef Book: ⁠https://amzn.to/47ZslNw Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I guys is Tony Robbins, you're listening to Habits in Hustle, Creshion. This is one podcast. I kid you not. I am really excited to do because of what's happening right now, of course, with the conflict. And you're the one guest that really can shed some light from the other side and have like perspective that probably nobody else that I've seen have.

So this is such an honor to have you and thank you for being on the podcast. Well, thank you for having me. I didn't even say your name, but this is the son of Hamasu guys. His name is Musab Hassan Yosef. Did I say that right? Yes. And I think we should start at the beginning, right? Yes. And I think we should start the beginning, right? Because I have a bazillion questions about your background and the evolution of your, of how you became where you are now. And so why don't we start the beginning for anybody who

doesn't know who you, who, who, who has no familiarity with who you are. So you're on. Mashaab, who are you? I'm a ghost. You really are, yes. Well, I was born as Palestinian Arab in the West Bank in a small town of Ramallah. And my family was and is still a very religious conservative Muslim family. My father had a big aspiration to reform Islam, to bring Islam back to the world. At that time Islam was dead. It was not popular. And my mother was the first woman in our town to actually wear a hijab. So our family has been a leading force of the Islamic revolution. And I was their all-the-son. They had big expectations from me. I went to the mosque at a very young age.

My father was gone most of the time and that was his secret mission, established in Hamas. Of course, I didn't know as a child, but I would chase after him for the dawn prayer, some 5 a.m. in the morning, facing the dogs, wild dogs on the streets, sometimes fighting with them. On my way to the mosque so I can see a little bit of them so you can say from very

young age my father was gone and I had to fill the gap. I was there with my mother, with my siblings and at a responsibility for the family at very young age. But again I didn't know the nature of Hamas and what my father exactly was doing. He would just show up in the middle of the night dressed up like an old man with a keen in his hand even though he was just in his mid-thirties at that

time. And I would wonder, you know, why is he dressed up like an old man? But this was his cover. So the IDF went recognizing and treated him just like an elder coming back from Hamas mission or Hamas secret meeting. So basically this is the early memories of me as a child in relation to family and father mother siblings. How old were you at this point? What was your...

When you started all the Hamas, when your father started, you were how old? So Hamas were talking roughly ten years old. Lots of things happened around that age. Yeah. Ten, eleven. So, let's talk about your dad, of course, who was on the founders of Hamas. Did you remember before ten, what he was doing before he even conceptualized, creating Hamas? What was he involved with?

Was he... what was he doing? Prior to Hamas, my father was a leader of the Muslim Brotherhood, which basically the mother Prior to Hamas, my father was a leader of the Muslim Brotherhood, which basically the mother organization of Hamas. Because Hamas is just a branch of the Muslim Brotherhood. Right, that was my next question. Can you tell everybody really what Hamas is and what the actual purpose was and did it change over time?

So Hamas is the branch of the Muslim Brotherhood in the Palestinian occupied territories. They use the Palestinian national cause to push their religious and ideological agendas. Hamas was established with the purpose of destroying the state of Israel in order to establish an Islamic state, not a Palestinian state. And this is where many people get confused. They say pro Palestine, free Palestine, but they don't know that they are advocating to a non-national organization.

Because Hamas does not believe in politics or political borders. We're talking about Islamists who want to dominate the globe. And of course, people find it very strange when they say, but Hamas is very small and it's only the Palestinian territories. How could this be even possible? So they don't see it as a direct threat. What they don't realize that Hamas is just a sub-movement belonging to the biggest Islamic movement in the world. And that is the Muslim Brotherhood. وانتفتحة موضوعة بلونجيجة بيجيجة

إسلاميك موضوعة في الموضوعة وانتفتحة موضوعة موضوعة موضوعة موضوعة موضوعة موضوعة موضوعة وانتفتحة موضوعة في العالم وانتفتحة موضوعة موضوعة موضوعة موضوعة موضوعة هذا الموضوع موضوعة موضوعة موضوعة They inspired not only Hamas, they inspired Al-Qaeda, they inspired Beleddin. If you look whose Beleddin's mentor, you will find a guy's name Abda-Lazam, Abda-Lazam was a top leader of the Muslim Brotherhood. So who inspired them?

It has an al-Banna and Sayyid Kutop. They both hated the United States very much. And since mid past century, they say, until now, they spread so much hatred. And there is no terrorist organization, Islamist organization that hasn't been or hasn't been inspired by Hassan Al-Bandhan, say it could have. So basically, my father is belonging to this lineage, to this heritage of Islamic, very aggressive, very violent, intellect, dogma, cult, whatever you want to call it. So the Muslim Brotherhood then has all these spin, like Hamas is just one of the offshoots, then you have like you said all the other ones.

Like is ISIS one of the, is ISIS is not? No, it's not, but they are all inspired. Inspired. Inspired. For example, Hamas is the closest in its ideology, philosophy to the mother organization, but they are like other organizations that basically went sideways. They went a bit farther than the center of the ideology of the Muslim Brotherhood, maybe to even more extreme, like Al-Qaeda. For example, the Muslim Brotherhood believed in infrastructure. They believed that we have to have schools, hospitals, charity. We have to have mosques. We have to have Da'wa, which is the Islamic outreach.

Right. While the Salafi jihadists believe, no, we have to achieve our goal, but through jihad and jihad only. We don't have time to go build infrastructure and invest all our energy in a society. Instead, we have to just recruit members and go to Jihad. Directly they want to go to the use of force. So the Maas and Brotherhood has different strategy. But the end of the day they all have the share of the same goal, which is to dominate the globe, create one nation under one religious and ideological banner and that is Islam.

So then if they all have a different goal, I mean so they all have the same goal, but how to get to the goal is different. Is the difference, yes. But yet a lot of the, you can tell me you're a Mormon expert obviously than I am. I'm definitely not. I'm not a politician or an expert. That's why this is such a fascinating conversation to me. Like Hamas, ISIS, Taliban, all the different terrorist groups.

They don't like each other, though, even though they had the same goal in mind. Like if you, if we, everyone wants to kill Israel, why wouldn't that not be or like to demolish Israel? Would that connecting point would make them unite, but it doesn't, correct? They are rivals and of course they have a conflict of interest. But there is something in common that they all hate Israel and they use this hypothetical entity that is actually non-existential. It exists only to them because they don't know what Israel is. But as long as there is this common enemy where they all can hate, this is their common ground, this is their common target, and this what brings them together. But trust me, if there was no Israel in the picture, they would kill each other.

Right. And do they do they kill each other? They do kill each other. Exactly. That's why my mind don't think they are they fight all the time. So even though they have the same common goal, it doesn't seem to change. Look, in the Middle East we have this problem, tribalism, and this is coming from the seventh century. We are a tribe, keeps trying to annihilate another tribe until getting annihilated or having total victory. Yeah, annihilated, right? Annihillated. Yeah. So this is basically there, this is tribalism. And before Muhammad and after Muhammad, the problem continued. Until today, you can find it in Shia'i, Sunni, conflict, hundreds of thousands of Muslims died,

if not millions actually, in the conflict between the two major sects, Shiai and Sunni. So if you tell me Muslims don't hate each other, I don't agree. The amount of hatred within the Arab world, within the Muslim society, is unbelievable. But for the past, they say 70 years, they found a common enemy. And that's what's bringing Shia Yisuni and the division and the subdivision of all these various groups with different ideologies to be united with a purpose to annihilate the state of Israel. Well, what could happen, like when this whole, when October 7th happened, and Israel was basically defending themselves and told the Gossens to leave.

Nobody, not one Arab state wanted to take the Palestinians. Well, Palestinians wherever they went, they brought trouble. For example, in Jordan, what the Azerar of Aded, he became a threat to the king. He bullied the king and he interfered with the national security of Jordan until the king got fed up with him and Black September have happened where the king buried thousands of Yasser Arfat fighters and the Yasser Arfat and his forces were expelled to Lebanon. But in Lebanon, Yasser Arara fat went to stay quiet. He interfered with internal issues.

And as a result of that, the Lebanese civil war happened, where devastated Lebanon until today, Lebanese people pay in the price. So wherever the Azerara fat or what so-called Palestinian revolution moved, they brought destruction, they brought trouble, corruption, violence. So yes, the Arab countries prefer not to have any Palestinian refugee on their on their soil. Well, I mean, I'm going to get to that part after. I still want to get, I want to really, I want to stick to your, because I want to get to how everything from how you basically, you're, I want to get, I want to stay with your childhood because I want to, I want to get to how everything from how you basically, I want to get to, I want to

stay with your childhood because I want people to understand how you denounced your family and your religion. You became a spy for, you became like a, you became a spy for Israel for 10 years. I want to understand how this all happened. So when you were 10 years old, your father was creating Hamas and how did he start indoctrinating you? And you also have five what you're the oldest but how many brothers and sisters? Five brothers and three sisters. Five brothers and three sisters.

Were they all being indoctrinated or just you because you were the oldest at that point? All of us were influenced a certain degree but but of course, being the oldest son, I had the lion's share. And since childhood, you can say I had a problem with this society that the gap started widening. There were things about the cultures that I did not like the rigid discipline within our family and the religious class where I belonged. I have to say it's very, very tough. It wasn't an easy childhood. I like it because it taught me discipline. It taught me a lot about self-control and fasting at very young age during the summer

of the Middle East. Sometimes was up to 16 hours, no water, no food. And I was only still five, six years old this when I started my entire life. And we do this like an entire month. And if I don't make it to the most, or I misbehave, or I say something that was not respectful to the other Muslims, etc., or violate any Islamic rule, I would be beaten up by the family, or by the family friends, or by the Imam at the most, or by the teacher, by the principle, by the even strangers on the street.

And I had always to run for my life, like literally, every day I had to confront monsters. And there was no day without being injured or a shit in blood because of this type of fights and struggle for just my freedom in things that I was trying very hard to meet with their expectations. It's not, you know, I was not lazy, but I didn't know better. I was just a child. Like, what kind of thing would get you in? Give me an example.

Very stupid silly stuff about religious rules that I did not understand. So like, take for example, if I cause trouble at the most, people were praying and I would just play around, cause any noise that now is disturbing the prayer. Right. And I was very good at that. The punishment was just unbelievable. And my mother agreed to it.

My father was imprisoned at that time. And the person who wanted to punish me was one of his best friends and co-founder of Hamas as well. His name is Fadal Hamdan وانتتكلمون من عبدال عزمه وانتتكلمون من المدينة هذا هو مدينة من المدينة. ولكن هذا هو جداً، فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا

في الهيواني. ومتحدثي في المدينة فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذا فهذاهذا فهذا فه فهذا فهذا فهذا فه My mother said, Sheikh Fadil wants to see you. Would you come with me? I was like, yes, for sure. And I'm going just to the end of the innocent child. And we go after the evening prayer to his house. To my surprise, I sit in the living area, which his entire family was asked to leave. And he tied me up to a post. And I was like, is this kind of joke?

He did not express any anger. Then I see him reached to the heater's cable, electric cable, this thick. And he took it from the wall and the heater and he came from behind, I just like he was as calm. I thought the whole thing was just basically trying to scare me. Until he started whipping me with the electric cable. This is when I lost my breath. I literally lost my breath, my capacity to breathe and I was trying to inhale and I couldn't. And he's not understanding that I could not breathe and he just kept going until I blacked out and my mother is watching the whole thing. So this was an early memory of violence of that culture. And how old were you at that time?

Probably eight or nine years old. The marks on my back stayed for weeks, if not months. So this is the early discipline of the way on that society. And of course, you know, when you push a child to the corner, to this degree, you don't expect from them, you know, that they are going to just praise the society after words. It was very violent. I was not the first time or the last time where I got beaten up many, many times in that setting. And that's very common thing, by the way. And there even I can go a lot further with traumas that they are devastating. But I'm not here yet, I'm a victim of that culture.

No, but I want to know, like what happens at that age, because I don't think, I don't, that, I don't think people know. They don't. Nobody knows. Nobody knows outside of me how it felt, to be a child in that brutal culture. So when you see the brutality and the savages taken over and annihilating everything in their way, this is not coincidental. It's a rape culture. This is another dimension of it, which I was a victim of as well. You were? Of course. And I talked about it to everyone's surprise. No one ever asked me who it was. No one cared.

Even though I was a victim of the most devastating crime ever and nobody cared to come and see, it's like, who was it? Or try to go get justice for it. So we're talking about a rib culture, a very violent culture. Then, uh... Wait, who was it? It was basically someone I don't even remember their name. It was a member of a family that my father entrusted, I go with them for the olive harvest. So my father

was in there and before the dark came his family trusted him to take me home because we were deep in the mountains and they did not want the dark to come it would be dangerous for me to just travel and they wanted me simply to go back to my family. So they entrusted me with one of their sons and what happened happened. I ran for my life. I was very small. I think I wasn't probably like six six and a half no more than seven. I don't even remember how I was. It was around like the 86, 87. So this was the beginning of the chaos. And of course, I try not to mention this event.

It's known to public, it's not a secret. It's not the first time I reveal it. I try not to talk about it because many people try to tie my position, my moral stand where I stand today, to the trauma of my childhood as a rib-fictim. And I don't like this thing because it's not only a personal, it's not only what happened to me as a child. It's the entire system that inspires, or inspires,

a rape culture, the violence, the sexual repression, the way the society treats women, which basically the unnatural way of living, it's contradicting evolution, it's contradicting the human nature by the name of religion, by the name of ideology, by the name of ideology. And it's all hypocrisy. And when we have a natural system like this that contradicts the human nature

and where you know love making becomes a taboo, becomes a forbidding, then we have all type of social problems. And this is why it is a rape culture. So for me, I always ask myself, why did this happen to me? Why did this happen to me? And why is it happening to many children in the Middle East? And you can ask those who know who have the statistics and it's only intelligence services,

who have the actual numbers. Or let's say a clear vision or view of what's happening to children in the Arab world. And the rest, they don't care, and they don't have actually access because many of the rib victims they don't talk about their trauma, because it's very shameful.

Even today, as an adult, I'm a very strong man, and immediately somebody would say, oh, he's fucked up, because it's, and nobody, many ribbed victims, they don't want to say, because you become the victim. And now everybody wonders like, okay, how bad, how devastating was that trauma

to this individual? And most people prefer to stay silent because they are ashamed or because they are afraid of the consequences, who's going to marry them, who's going to accept them, who's going to befriend them. So this is another struggle that rib victims have to go with. Not only on a physical, spiritual spiritual and emotional level, especially when they are very young. So for me, that opened many questions about reality, about God, because

one of the things was that when I did not find my father around for help, I looked for the superior power. And as a child, I asked for help, but it did not come. As you know, I always strive to become better and bolder every day. And this has been my motto for a really long time. And I truly believe that continues with self-improvement. And one really great way to do it is with a masterclass app. I recently watched Spanx Founder Sarah Blakely's class on being a self-made entrepreneur, and it made me feel so inspired and motivated.

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You're saying you don't want that to be the reason why people think that you've gone the other way, but that's a reason in itself to go the other way if that's part of the culture that you've been indoctrinated into. Yes, but then it will be revenge. But, okay, I mean, I see why you're saying that. Yes, if my motive was revenge, many people will understand. But this is not my approach. Right, not at all.

Because eventually I had lots of power. Maybe the God I was looking for help empowered me in a way that nobody expected in that society. At some point I was able to bring armies in and out. And I was able to destroy any opponent. Wow. And I had the capacity not only to destroy my rapist. I was able to do a lot worse to him than what he did to me. What did you do?

And I did not have hard feelings towards him, period. But, okay, so I want to know what you did to him to get for the revenge. But all these other people, these children who have the same traumatic experiences, why, like, it can't be that all these other people, these children who have the same traumatic experiences, why, like, it can't be that all of these people just kind of accepted it and held it in and just kept on going. Like, when you told your mom, your mom, that your mother, that's happened.

My mother did not know. Oh, she didn't know, but this, okay. I was very ashamed for a long period of time. So, what age did you tell people that this was? So the first time I talked about this when I was 28 years old, and this is what I meant from that point on, nobody ever asked me who was it, no one.

This is how much people don't care. And again, I was able to take revenge, and I'm still able to take revenge. But this is not your purpose. This is not what I want to accomplish. I want to solve the fundamental problems that are leading to this type of crime. And part of it, a huge part of it is violence

and sexual repression. I came to this conclusion and they're devastating. Not coincidental what we see now from the October 7 attacks, lots of rape happened. Okay, Hamas did part of thought they would be in a situation like this. Hence, what's afraid happened at the party, but it was not the only place. Later on, many civilians from Gaza crossed the fence after Hamas had opened the fence and after their first wave of attacks and many of the rapes were committed by Gaza civilians, not even Hamas members only. So this is why when I saw the videos and I hear the stories, I can totally relate to this problem because this is a fundamental problem in the culture. And the people can go on for eternity, saying, Israel is our enemy and Israel is the devil. But they never protect the children from rapists.

And they, instead of fighting against violence, they increase violence and they use violence, especially against children, where the parents beat their child, the teacher beat their child at the mosque. Where do they go? So for me, before you tell me, the society wants to preach me about Israel and this external enemy. How about the child within? And when this child is going to get his justice? So basically, it's this child journey fighting for answers, fighting for justice, and anything that is not satisfactory, is not satisfying to me, is rejected. If I

wanted only to take revenge, maybe I would get a little bit of satisfaction, but my ultimate satisfaction is to fight the origin of this problem. And every authority that empowers it or stands behind it. First of all, you know it's interesting that I don't even think the majority of people even realize that a lot of the civilians from Gaza came through afterwards to do so much of the pillaging, the raping, and which then leads me to another question which I wanted to ask you this later on, but you touched upon it, which was, what is in your opinion of the, the gossens, the Palestinian people that do you do believe that they are pro-Hamas? Do you think that they are scared because of the repercussions? Where is their mindset?

Because they've been indoctrinated from such a young age, as you were, they've been traumatized, all the rest. Where, like, what do you, just by showing that most, a lot of them went across to do all these atrocious things? Can you kind of talk about that a little bit? Because people separate the two. Like, Hamas is different from the civilians, from the other Palestinians.

Is that accurate, in your opinion? Look, it really doesn't matter whether they are Pro-Hamas or not. What really matters are they anti-Israel or not. This is the more important question. And the entire Palestinian society, not only the Palestinian society, the Arab nation agree that Israel is the greatest enemy and Israel must be destroyed. That's the massة of the Arab world و هذا هو where you need to focus

لأن if we want to go into the rabbit hole who do they support? do they support Hamas? do they support Fata? and there is a moderate and there is extreme and then you go into this rabbit hole you never finish there is something that they agree on that Israel does not have the right to exist

and this is obvious today in this war that we don't see powerful Arab countries publicly or at least, they'd say, Palestinian figures, influential figures that step forward and say, we condemn Hamas atrocities, we condemn Hamas genocide. But if you want to go, did they vote? To Hamas, yes, a majority voted for Hamas. It has been a while. So some people might argue and say, this is invalid because the election was back in 2006. So this is why I don't

even feel the need to go this route. And we saw what happened immediately after October 7th. They brought hostages, teenagers, youngsters, infants, and the people of Gaza were celebrating. They're cheering. It's it was a great victory, was it? When one of the hostages escaped for four days, the civilians who captured him and brought him back to Hamas. When a society validates genocide, and this is practically what happened on October 7th, by all standards that was a genocide committed by Hamas, the ruling authority government of Gaza.

And the Gaza people did not make their position different than Hamas. وفرطي جوور من جزة. وفرطي قد يتحدثون في المنطقة المدينة للمنطقة المدينة. فإنه يتحدثون في المنطقة المدينة. يتحدثون في المنطقة المدينة. فإنه يتحدثون في المنطقة المدينة وفتحون في المنطقة المدينة فقط من جزة المدينة. لا تحدثون في المنطقة المدينة.

وهم يتحدثون بسرطة مفردة. وهم يتحدثون في المنطقة المدينة المدينة. لا ينجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنجر لنج لنجر لنجر لنجر mass act of a genocide was part of what so called resistance, which in my my opinion is not resistance, it's not nationalism, it's not self-defense, it's only one thing. And that is genocidal attack motivated by very dark hatred and revenge. And this is the tribal mentality I told you that is coming from the 7th century. Because this is what tribes used to do to each other. If they had an account to settle, a tribe would go and annihilate everything in their way, take women and children as booty and sell them to slavery or enslave them and kill all men. This is the mentality, و تتمنى لهم في المساعدة أو يتمنى لهم و تتمنى لهم في المساعدة هذا هو المنطالي

هذا هو ما يعني المنطالي من المنطالي same المنطالي لا يجب أن أعرف ما أعرف مجرد حال عدد مجرد من المنطالي يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب That was the image of what Hamas is capable of doing, which basically they want to dominate. They want to take over territory, they want more power, and they want to enslave everybody,

everything that comes in their way, everything becomes their property. To this savage that was not a prisoner of war as much as a booty, or something that he owns now, something that he can bargain for money, for mass murderers, for whatever it takes. So if Hamas approach was, let's say if their fight was a political fight and they were fighting against military, and there was a female soldier that Hamas had some respect, they had some protocol to follow, to treat them as war prisoners, for exchange of soldiers been captured during the war, I understand. But you are capturing a teenage girl kidnapped her from a party into an underground city you built under Gaza to bargain for exchange with mass murderers,

people who killed and wounded thousands of people, someone like Abraham Hamid and Abdullah Barghotti. By the way, that's also, I got like, we're going to, I'm sorry, we're jumping around a lot here because I have all of these things written down about the exchange, the 50 innocent civilians that they stole and grabbed for a bunch of 150 terrorists. And the idea that there's all these people out there saying, oh well, they Israel had all these innocent people, these children as prisoners. What you can talk to this, like you are in prison in Israel for when you are a spy, which we still haven't gotten to, we will.

Can you talk about the fact, can you explain what really happens in the prison? Are those people innocent? My prison experience was at another level into this chaos, that chaotic world. Absolutely. We haven't even gotten to that. But again, I'm just going by what you're saying. This is what we can do.

At once, just small, that's all I can, first of all, my language betray me. Every time I try to talk about this human experience in this chaos. And I wish it was just a trauma of a child and things got better. No, things just keep getting worse and worse and worse. And I was trying to explain, I make this analogy of that the gap between me and Hamas just kept widening and widening and widening. Until now, that there is a difference between them and me, a universe, a galaxy. But my experience in prison was something very ugly and very different. And that was the first time I saw Hamas brutality on a much bigger scale than the scale of a child, than just being whipped or lashed by a crazy Islamic leader. In prison, they tortured and they killed hundreds of prisoners,

and that was my imprisonment back in 1996. My first imprisonment. This wasn't the Israeli prison. It was in Israel. This was the Israeli prison, okay. Inmates killing inmates, basically. Hamas security wing, trying to figure out who gave information for the Israeli intelligence in the process, way. 16 months in that term, day and night, the screams of those prisoners. How can I, how can I forget?

Yeah, we're not talking about just you witnessed an incident, an ugly thing, a fight, someone got killed. Then you go and you try to heal yourself from that trauma. Talking about, I had to live with it for 16 months and that's a monster. My father helped establish. I lost my father at a very young age when I mean I lost him that he wasn't there for this project. So I had the authority to question the heck of it.

What is it that we were doing that brought us here? Is this the project that he's getting busy, far away from my mother, spending most of his life in prison, or leading a secret life, orchestrating this monster that I'm just face to face with in prison? So that was the moment that where the childhood trauma growing up in that brutal culture, all the injustice, all the chaos of the people that I did not like was something. What happened in prison was something else. And this is where I start questioning Hamas and not only questioning Hamas, this is where I start having a serious problem with Hamas in prison.

And it was not accidental that the security wing responsible for the killing the torture, the death in prison, were the military wing leaders outside of prison. So after my release from prison and the Israeli intelligence approached me, whether they knew my mental state and my hatred against Hamas, and I thought that I was, say, I had a great potential, that I could agree to the work, whether they knew or they didn't know, we met around the perfect timing where I was on a quest to destroy Hamas. And that was not only because of the trauma of a child. Now it became just a matter of justice.

That the same group that killed and tortured hundreds of Palestinian prisoners in prison are the same group sending suicide bombers targeting buses, schools, universities, beaches, killing everything in their way, including Holocaust survivors. So when the Israeli Intelligence approach may, with a proposal, hey, it's going out to control this group sabotaging the entire peace process, they're killing people indiscriminately. It's your father's organization, but still do you agree to what's happening? Are you going to do something about it?

And they challenged me, they challenged me morally, and I was ready. Deep inside me, I was ready to fight this monster, and I agreed. But how did they know, like, go back back a bit because how did that even happen? Why would you even in prison in the first place? How did you even become a prisoner? Like where were you in your life? That didn't even happen to even be there. Right.

Well, I got involved with one of Hamas military cells. At that time, I was the president of the Islamic student movement that was not an armed organization. How old were you at this point? I was 18 years old. So even though you had all this trauma as a child and everything else, with your, you still were living the life that your father wanted you to. Of course, it's not like the, I blame, let's say, this bad guy, but the rest were good. Then I blame let's say a big group of the movement, but always my father was my model and my father was good.

So I compared everyone, I say, okay, many of his organizations are bad, but my father is good. So I was always the bond between me and my father that was keeping me in that realm. So even though you knew that already that these, everything that was around you was not, was, was bad, you, you had such a love for your father. Yes, it's. So he was, you were like kind of like, you're basically doing your family business, like, it, like kind of how similar how like, we would in a mirror, anywhere else, right?

Like, you were just following your dad's footsteps, right? So you became the president of the Islamic, would you say it was the Islamic student movement? Okay, which meant which was what? What was that? What is that? It's basically this is a chapter or a branch of Hamas. Okay. That is recruiting students at schools, universities, and that's a very important division of Hamas that is recruiting students at schools, universities, and that's a very important division of Hamas. This is basically where the indoctrination, the early stages of recruitment. So they start doing it around what age would you say? If you were 18 doing it, they start with me personally, they start as early as seven or eight years old. Right, because you were the, because you were the, you were his son.

It's because basically wherever my father also went, the summer camps, he always wanted me to be involved in such activities. So not everybody, many came later, but as part of Hamas leadership, we were at a very, very young age. My mother, all the time, used to say, you were born in a mosque. She said, when I was pregnant of you, I never missed a prayer at the mosque. You were always there even before your birth. This is when she always wanted to remind me of my role of that. So if I missed a prayer at the mosque, she would be very, very angry with me. It's just like, now, how come you did not? And that was very early

for a wake-up call that I needed to make it to the mosque, regardless of what's going on outside, the court of the night, the beasts on the streets, the rapists, whatever it is that if my father wasn't there, I was required to go there and finish my prayer before the sunrise. And this is before memory. Right. You're like a kid. So then like at 18, now you're the president of the mosque, you know, student association. So your job was to go into the schools and to indoctrically get these other people, other kids or whatever

students? So how did you do it? What was the process? There are lots of activities. I have lots of charisma when I was very young. You still have charisma. I don't have charisma. It depends.

It depends. Some people may be see it completely different. But as a public speaker, I love to speak, and I was not afraid of the crowd. So this was my strength, and this is actually what qualified me. It was not just me and my father's son. I remember once there was dispute on a political issue and I was very young times I just find myself black out on the sidewalk after getting a very bad beat. But they never silenced me and I remember I was 15 or 16 and it was a rainy day and the entire school was just packed at the cafeteria. And I jumped on one of those tables and I start talking

to the crowd just with whatever I had, challenging them with their hypocrisy, with their cowardice, with their, I would say, misperception, but I found whatever words there to just yell, scream out loud, fearlessly in a cafeteria, and literally everybody was shocked. Because first of all, none of them would have, or had dirt to jump on a table and speak to the entire school like this. And he would drop a pen and silence this what it was. Everybody was in a state of shock.

And that immediately after that put me on Hamas map and on the Islamic student movement map that with no time I became the president of not only that school but of the city of Ramallah. And I was only 16 or 17 years old. Wow. And they were older students. So and that got me a loss of trouble, loss of confrontation fights on the streets and this way I'm not afraid of the crowd because literally there was no day without a confrontation especially with Fata movement. That's the Hamas rival party where we just all the time in fights, I would come back

to my mother bleeding or she would bruised eyes and it just chaos. Chaos. So then you become the president and then what is your job then to do afterwards? What is the process to get other people to be involved and to indoctrinate them into Hamas. So we got material from the movement, from the handler basically. And they would give me thousands of books or magazines, newspapers that they were especially for the members of the Islamic student division, about the ideology, about Islam, about even how to become secret, how to become invisible to the authorities. And that was from the early age.

If there is something that I remember very well is this thing. Like for example, if there is following, if you've been traced how you're going to mislead the person who's pursuing you, if how to communicate through a dead point, which was, you know, we were just only students at school. But many times, when a superior in the organization wanted to communicate with us, it was not even directly. So I would go to a dead point, what they would call it, deep in the mountains or sometimes in the Mohskoor, in a garbage bin, whatever it is, and there would be a message. So I'd never actually meet the connecting point or the person handling a certain issue because they did not want to reveal their identity to me.

Even though I was a son of a top Hamas leader, they did not want to communicate with me directly and I was encouraged if I had to communicate with others, I would do the same thing. So how would you do it? You read a message to some, where would you do? So basically there would be a dead point and this dead point I would have would ever know what the dead point is though. So basically it would be a certain location who picks it like the so I would be directed to that location through a medium. So somebody let's say I would find the message and the message would say, I would find the message.

And the message would say, okay, you go to this mosque. And in this mosque, there is... What's the box you put like a dead body in? Oh, I do mean like the coffin. The coffin? Yeah. Okay, and because funeral is usually are prepared and they prepare the dead people at the mosque. So they're like bunch of those. And they're not desirable.

Nobody would go there and touch them. They're scary. Yeah. So I would be directed, let's say, at 1 a.m. in the morning to go into the mosque to one of these coffins. And I would find, let's say, something there. It would be a material. Sometimes it would be magazines, it would be painting for gravity, graffiti, all type of material support for Hamas and their activities. And the job sometimes would be, okay, you need

to go out and make this statement on the walls of the city throughout the city. So we would be required at age of 17, 18 to put on a mask so they would provide the masks, it would be like basically the whole gear available at this coffin. But this is just like one example because we don't repeat the same location. But this coffin they say you would find masks, covers whatever, some weapon. It wasn't guns at that time, but they would give us knives, etc. for, like, to defend ourselves in case something happens. And we were required to do such a thing somewhere between 1 and 3 AM. So after everybody's asleep, so we would go like throughout the city, writing Hamas propaganda or Hamas message

whatever it is to public or even to the IDF. So this was one of the things that I did at very young age and was carrying once actually we got arrested in the act But we were too young for Israel to keep us in prison. We were released, even though I got cut with a mask over my head, and Hamas's material support, and we were just doing some Hamas activity after midnight. So basically, as you see, this is how much I loved my father, and I believed in his cause, and I wanted to do whatever it took. I dedicated lots of my energy to the Hamas cause and to the Hamas project.

This way when I criticized Hamas, I didn't criticize Hamas as an outsider. I knew a lot about them. And I was considered a leader at a very young age. And later on, I became my father's right hand. I was responsible for his protection. And I reached as far as Damascus, a man, Jordan, abroad, Gaza,

I never meant to Gaza physically, but most of Hamas' leadership in Gaza was in communication with me on a regular basis. Most of Hamas' leadership in Lebanon, in communication with me on a regular basis. Most of Hamas leadership in Lebanon in Syria and at that time was Saudi Arabia was in touch with me because this is how they got to my father. So I knew a lot about the movement and in fact at some point I knew about Hamas operation.

A lot more than my father knew about them because he separated himself from the activity of Hamas' operation, a lot more than my father knew about them, because he separated himself from the activity of Hamas, but I was literally in every thing that they were doing. At some point, not all the time, but at least during the Second Paris Union in Tifaada, I had a few years that I knew a lot about the movement and how they were doing. Actually, I was moving them,

but they didn't know that I actually was moving them, the Israeli intelligence, because our work was not just collect information. Lots of Hamas military wing trusted me and we manipulated them. Like, literally, we gave them money. You know, many people say about money. Yes, there was lots of money, but we gave them the money to move from a place to a place and we set perfect traps for them. And like at some point, for example, when I needed to communicate with Khalid Mash'at in Damascus, I had to send him a Hamas operative, someone who was trustworthy. And the Israeli intelligence did not like the idea, because it was very risky.

But for me, it was the challenge, can we get to him? Because it was almost impossible to get to him. And can we get a device inside his office? And that was something I orchestrated. Of course, with the help of the agency and their cover and whatever, you know, we know we had to this when you were a spy This was like during the thing, but it's all connected, you know It's this midnight mission that I did and later on the

Dangerous missions that we did throughout the region the methods that I developed actually Counter and Hamas they were not just coinc. It was all because I knew how they worked, I knew how they worked, and I manipulated those forces within their organization against them. And this was the surprise of the Israeli intelligence that they actually had lots of information. They did not like information, but they didn't know how to make sense of it. They didn't know how to analyze it fast. You would bring an expert and give him piles of paper, documents, it would spend months reading it. And if you bring more than one brain, then they are now, they missed the whole picture.

It's like a puzzle. Yeah. And they have the missing pieces. But for me, I just had small amount of information that made perfect sense to me and I acted fast. And it's all about time and time frame because if you act late, means that a suicide bomber reached their target and it's too late now. So basically,

do you save a lot of those things from happening? You know, I don't want to take credits for it because it doesn't matter. It really doesn't matter. And in principle, if you save one human life, it's equal to saving the entire humanity, because it's about the principle. But what really matters is that Hamas, or let's say that community, prepared me with such a rigid discipline system, that it was meant to break me, but it didn't.

I just, every year I became stronger and stronger and stronger, and all the challenges that I had to go through on a personal level or from society or political level or just being under the lens of the society for being the son of my father and their expectations. It just made me into something very, very different and I was able to function with, you can say, super consciousness at a very, very young age, that even the might of the Israeli intelligence, they were shocked of how I was able to just solve dilemma. And sometimes it was very, very complicated. And sometimes, all it took for me to just see two people sitting in the wrong place

and I would see what they were doing. And it says, like, okay, those guys should not be here. And they would be arrested and that night we'd find a dozen of suicide belts in their living room. And everybody, how in the world did you figure this out? And I still don't have perfect answers to that. So just being so deep in that culture, that it's not like, you know, I was they say filled with hatred since childhood and I wanted to prevent you as much as I lived it, I lived it to the deepest possible level. outside prison, in school, in the Islamic movement, in the Hamas infrastructure, throughout the entire indoctrination process.

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What did you get caught doing that you had guns? Guns. I had guns. I had guns and we made a mistake, or actually I wasn't the one who made a mistake, but one of our cell group made a phone call to my father's cell phone, and at that time cell phones were just very, very rare. Yeah. In fact, in our entire town, maybe there were just a couple of them, and my father had one

of them. So, one of my teammates called the phone and he said something and we were arrested right away. Wow. But thankfully we did not use the guns, but I was not that far. I was not that far from really getting in real trouble. Had we used the guns, I would be spending life-term in Israeli prison by now. Wow, where are your brothers and sisters now? Obviously you don't talk to them, or do you?

We are not in touch. I have five brothers. I don't know where they are residing. I assume one of them in Turkey, the other one could be in Europe. The rest, I think, is still in the West Bank. My sister's one is in Gaza. I don't know if she's alive or dead. She's married to a top Hamas leader who actually was released in the Gail actually prisoner swap. Just now? You mean

just a couple weeks ago? No, back in 2011, along with the Ahias in the war. Oh, wow. Yeah. And my father actually offered my sister to this savage. This guy killed three people with a knife in Jerusalem back, I think, in 1989. So my father, after my story came out and I brought lots of shame on the family, his way to wash the shame of the family was to offer my sister to this savage, a top Hamas terrorist mass murderer. And since then, I lost contact with my sister. She moved to Gaza. He's a target, so she is. So I don't know if she's still alive or she's killed and also along with their children, whom I never met. So that's one of my sisters. The other sister is actually living in Dearborn, Michigan. Her husband is originally a

Palestinian, a doctor, and it was an arranged marriage. This is how he talked my sister when she was only 19. Most beautiful girl you can imagine. And they talked my sister and they just disappeared. And we didn't know where they were, they're phone number, anything. Five years we did not hear anything from my sister. And I was still working for the Israeli intelligence in the Palestinian territory at that time.

When I moved to the United States, I looked them up, I was able to find them. It was not an easy mission. And I went to the United States, I looked them up. I was able to find them. It was not an easy mission. And I went to see her. And they were very angry that I could find them. Because they thought they could hide. He's a doctor. He's a doctor at public hospital.

What he thought that nobody can find them. I know. It's kind of... Yes. But he's an idiot. It's what it is. Keep in my sister some, maybe, basement in a Detroit or dearborn, dearborn house. And with no communication with my family, very religious, sick people. So this is my other sister.

And it was not surprised. This sister, who's an American, was the first sister to actually disown me. She was the first one to disown me. So just the matrix, matrix of my life keeps expanding. We can never finish in just interview of how chaotic my life experience has been, but it is what it is. How about your mom? Well, my mother could be the only person in the entire picture who actually did not compromise her love. When my father, when I wrote the book, and the book is called the Green Prince. The book is called Son of Hamas. Oh, the movie is called the documentary is called the

Green Prince. By the way, I don't know where I want to know where you got the name, or they got the name Green Prince, and the book is called the Son of Amaz. Sorry. The Green Prince was my code name within the Israeli intelligence. And this is... This finished your mom situation, I'm curious. Yeah, so my mother disagreed with my father when he decided to this only. I told him about my involvement with Israel after I migrated to the United States. I told him this is what I did and I wrote a book about it and the book is coming out soon. So I wanted him to hear from me directly, not to hear from the media. And I had a very short window to tell him the truth about my role.

And I wanted him to know that I saved his life. I wanted him to know that he was a target and the only thing that saved his life was my involvement with the Israeli intelligence. Is that the truth? This is the truth, the absolute truth. لأنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه يبدو أنه ي him alive, not dead, because he was our access to Hamas. If my father wasn't in a picture, we wouldn't have access to Hamas. So this was what saved him. And of course, whatever management that they had to save him from himself, not only from Israel, from other intelligence services, and from most importantly, rival parties, like

Fata'a, who wanted him dead. So I was protecting him not only from Israel, I was protecting him from the entire world and most importantly, from the poor choices that he made in his life. And when I revealed my true identity to him, which I am very happy and pleased that I told him in person, because I did not want him only to hear from me. In person? I mean, over the phone because I did not want him only to hear from me. In person? I mean, over the phone, but it was me personally communicating to him. It was not a third party, let's say, a newspaper or a TV or some other person. And I wanted to be honest with him.

Actually, I dedicated the book to him. I wanted him to see my life through my lens at that time. I wanted him to see my reality and what I had to witness as a human being. And especially that he had no clue what Israel is and what the Israeli intelligence is. He just sees them as an enemy and they clash, but he did not get to see them from within, to see how they work and why they work and what it is like to be a democracy in the face of a terrorist group, rather a terrorist within an outlaw organization in the face of a democracy. How could you see the other side? I was able to see both sides, to see his organization and to see the most secret Israeli-Jewish community out there, that I became one of them, that their struggle

became my struggle, and we work together as a team. They protected my life, I protected theirs, and our goal was to save human lives. This is the job of intelligence service that serves democracy. It's not to take revenge from people, it's not to go after terrorists only for revenge, as much as go out for justice. Right. And with the most creative, intelligent methods out there, which was very impressive, and this is actually the true school of my life. Wow. You know, where I learned the biggest lessons about myself and about the human movement,

the human behavior, the structure of society, reality, false sense of reality and human delusion, because we created the reality, and we saw how people respond to it, and their misperception was just mind-blowing every time, that the reality on the ground, what we are creating was something and what people perceive it from the outside were just insane. The contrast of what actually was happening. Tell me what the difference was. What was it?

What were you creating? Every operation we did, every operation of every objective, whatever our intention was, let's say, to save one human life, whatever action we had that resulted in an arrest or sabotaging a terrorist attack or sometimes assassinations or just a play that there was what appeared to be lots of violence, but there was no violence. Like one of the examples, we had to orchestrate big things. I cannot talk lots of these details because I'm not allowed to, honestly. But there is one thing that I can, because it's already mentioned in the book.

Okay. And... Why can't you talk about the details? Because those are the secrets of the Israeli intelligence. Oh, yes, I don't want to talk about that. No, no, I have, I'm'm under oath not to talk about this stuff. I understand, yes. And it's basically also given the methods of how we do the job to the terrorist.

Maybe now they know a lot more than what they knew 20 years ago. But always the Israeli intelligence don't like anybody to talk about how they do the job ago, but always the Israeli intelligence don't like anybody to talk about how they do the job. But one of the things that I already talked about so we can talk about it, I was involved in lots of operations in many fronts, after many wanted people, high profile terrorists, many of them were arrested,

and I was getting very close to the point where people would become suspicious. So how could I be the only survivor, the only one who's just getting away all the time, but everyone else has been arrested or assassinated, etc. So the... the Israeli intelligence wanted to do a play to manipulate Hamas security wing. And basically they wanted me to go to my house and they wanted to fake and arrest attempt. لكن هذا المطبع في المطبع في المطبع في المطبع في المطبع في المطبع في المطبع في المطبع في المطبع في المطبع في المطبع في المطبع في المطبع في المطبع في المطبع في المطبع في المطبع في المطبع في المطبع في المطبع في المطبع في المطبع في المطبع في المطبع في المطبع في المطبع في المطبع في المطبع في المطبع في المطبع في المطبع في المطبع في المطبع في المطبع في المطبع في المطبع في المطبع في المطبع في المطبع في المطبع في المطبع في المطبع في المطبع في المطبع في المطبع في المطبع في المطبع في المطبع في المطبع في المطبع في المطبع في المطبع في المطبع في المطبع في المطبع في المطبع في المطبع في المطبع في المطبع في المطبع في المطبع في المطبع في المطبع في المطبع في المطبع في المطبع في المطبع في المطبع في المطب في المطبع في المطبع في المطبع في المطبع في المطبع في المطبع في المطبع في المطبع في المطبع في المطبع في المطبع في المطب في المطبع في المطبع في المطبع في المطب في المطبع في المطبع في المطب تتحديث في المدينة وكلها كانت فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط فقط you are about to arrest a high-profile terrorist, he's very dangerous, he has guns. If you see him, kill him. It's as simple as that. So this is like the as bad as it can get for chasing a terrorist. But in order to do this, you have to bring special forces because you're going behind the enemy lines. So you have to bring basically the IDF division of undercover agents,

which they would dress like Palestinians, they would go using Palestinian cars or other cars. So people don't get suspicious of them. They would come to my house, my family house, this surrounded house, secure the area. So I cannot escape. The moment they do this, the big cannot escape. The moment they do this, the big army now would come with tanks, armored vehicles, et cetera. If there is resistance and shooting, there could be choppers and they are just everybody waiting. So we're talking about big operation that would take millions of dollars to just move such a force. And that's just to orchestrate a game to make

Hamas believe that I was wanted, that Israel was not letting me move freely. They wanted me dead. But the arrangement was to evacuate my family out of the picture and to take them to safety. So the special forces would come first, surround the house,ارة. أخذ my mother, my siblings, وعندها في المدارة. أخذ my mother, my siblings, وعندها في المدارة. أخذ my mother, my siblings, وعندها في المدارة.

أخذ my mother وعندها في المدارة. أخذ my mother وعندها في المدارة. أخذ my mother وعندها في المدارة. أخذ my mother is in the house. They call for everybody and now the media come. Al-Jazeera, other TVs come to cover this attack. Everybody see the tanks moving. Militia come, they start shooting at the tanks and everything is on live TV. And on the speakers they calling for my name, to Surin'ah. While I was already sitting in a safe house watching the whole thing on TV,

but the army doesn't know that I'm not in the house because they are trusting the information coming by the Israeli intelligence, their own intelligence. So when I don't Surin'ah and my entire family is out of the house, they shoot a missile into the house. They destroyed like half of the house. And in my room, there was at least 150 bullets in the wall. They start a crazy shootout killing everything inside the house when I did not surrender.

So it was a war zone. It was and it continued for at least five hours of fire exchange with terrorists outside at the house. Then after that they brought the dogs. They went inside and no one was in the house and everything was just a game. And the idea of thought it was just a failure that I escaped, but they didn't know how escaped. They didn't know that the Israeli intelligence gave me the heads up one or two minutes before the Special Forces arrived there. So Special Forces didn't know that it was part of the Israeli intelligence program? None of them.

They treated me exactly like they treated the most wanted man in the city. And I was wanted, bring him, if not alive, bring him dead is okay. Wow, that's so crazy. So this is like one of the, but orchestrating something like this for example. Now this built my trust with Hamas. On one hand they became immediately obligated to provide me security. So they had now to give me access not to all, but to many of their safe houses in the city. The safe houses that we were trying to find

for a very long period of time and we did not find where Hamas, military wing, top Hamas leaders hide for a long time. Do you know what they are now? Like, I mean, I know now it's been years and years and years. It's been years, it's been years. But, I know you wouldn't know specifically. But based on all the experience that you've had and know the thinking that goes behind all of it, could you be helpful into like, you know, maybe it would be, like you must understand the tunnel situation and how all that was, that was. No, the tunnel is actually they you after you long after I left and I never been to

Gaza also right last but you killed I never been to Gaza just simply I grew up in the West Bank for a while but if you went now would you be killed I'm slightly if I go to any Arab country now I could be I could get in trouble. But you said that you, but the safe houses, and even in the US though, do you know what, can you even be helpful to know what people should be even looking for, what the FBI should be looking for because you have that mindset,

because you've been around it? Most importantly, if it was my field, it was let's say the language I understand, the mentality I understand, the mentality I understand, I had a lead, I need a lead. I need a lead. I need a lead. This is the hardest part to find.

Once you have the lead, it's just a matter of time until you arrive at your target. So as long as I have a lead, it doesn't matter. We will get there. The biggest problem when you don't have a lead. And this is what happened, you know, that we were struggling to find the masterminds who's in the school side bomber attacks but when we orchestrated such a big drama which was very dangerous and they involved big army and we risked the lives of Israeli soldiers like literally and it was just fake so but that gave us access to the safe houses and within a year we

destroyed Hamas military wing in the West Bank. Like literally we destroyed them. And we reached some of the most dangerous terrorists like Abraham Hamid, which took us eight years to capture him. This guy is convicted with I think 65 killings. But we believe that he killed a lot more than 65. وقدمت مع أشياء سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئة سيئ looking for him in a small town of Romallah, less than 25,000 population. And this is how hard it was to find them. And today, his number one on Hamas list, to be released in exchange for the hostages in Gaza.

So again and again, this is the karma that keeps repeating itself and bringing me back to the same individuals. As well, sometimes when people see me, and they see me very, very angry, you know, the way I speak, it's a fight, because to me, the fight is on. It did not finish. It did not stop. And it happened that Abraham Hamid

was the head of the Hamas security wing, inside prison, torturing and killing the Palestinian prisoners in prison. Before he was released and he became the Hamas military wing outside the mastermind behind most of the Suicide Bombayn attacks during the Second Palestinian Antifa before he was captured. The now Abraham Hamid, the same individual, come back to the picture to be released for innocent hostages being held by those savages after October 7 attacks. So, this is why, for me, I try to just capture the matrix of my life and all these chaos and what could appear as coincidence, but it's not.

It's just something that I really, it's necessary to deconstruct, like it's my responsibility to destroy this thing called Hamas, like literally eradicate it, whatever it takes. It's not only Israel fight against Hamas, it's my fight against Hamas is a lot bigger. I don't have as much power, but it's a lot bigger fundamentally. Yeah. And this is why like I have to. And if Hamas is not defeated, I know we are going to have a lot more trouble in the near future. Are you surprised by the barbaric massacre that

happened on October 7th? Are you surprised by that? Do you believe that I was under, I told, I told that the terror risks were on drugs because it was so barbaric to go to be that evil. You had to be put on drugs, do you believe that? Like are you, were you surprised and do you believe that's true? Look, I am not surprised by Hamas brutality. I've seen a lot. But what happened on October 7th, it was not a massacre. I thought at the beginning it was a massacre because I saw just some footage here and there.

I saw kidnaps, so before I saw, there was no suicide bombing attack that I did not see from Hamas because all the time we tried to, I tried to identify the terrorists who blow up and we needed to know who was it, to see who sent it. And so I would get those fresh photos from a suicide bombing scene. And I have to say one of the ugliest things

that I had to see throughout my career for 10 years. So there was no suicide bombing attack that I had to see throughout my career for 10 years. So there was no so-as-set bombing attack that I wasn't there, like literally seeing the victims and seeing the, so when I saw some of the, okay, you know, they use explosives, people dying, explosives, but what changed the entire thing after I watched the, what they called the massacre film, the 47 minutes at the United Nations.

And my life would never be the same. Because what Hamas have become on such a much bigger scale and how they developed is something exceeded my imagination. Their brutality on a smaller level is something, but to move systematically, wiping out, annihilating everything in their way, close to 20 Jewish communities where they killed everything, not only humans, but also animals, raping, blowing up things, فقط أرسل للمساعدة ، أرسل للمساعدة ، أرسل للمساعدة ، أرسل للمساعدة ، أرسل للمساعدة ، أرسل للمساعدة ، أرسل للمساعدة ، أرسل للمساعدة ، أرسل للمساعدة ، أرسل للمساعدة ، أرسل للمساعدة ، أرسل للمساعدة ، أرسل للمساعدة ، أرسل للمساعدة ، أرسل للمساعدة ، أرسل للمساعدة ، أرسل للمساعدة ، أرسل للمساعدة ، أرسل للمساعدة ، أرسل للمساعدة ، أرسل للمساعدة ، أرسل للمساعدة ، أرسل للمساعدة ، أرسل للمساعدة ، أرسل للمساعدة ، أرسل للمساعدة ، أرسل للمساعدة ، أرسل للمساعدة ، أرسل للمساعدة ، أرسل للمساعدة ، أرسل للمساعدة ، أرسل للمساعدة ، أرسل للمساعدة ، أرسل للمساعدة ، أرسل للمساعدة ، أرسل للمساعدة ، أرسل للمساعدة ، أرسل للمساعدة ، أرسل للمساعدة ، أرسل للمساعدة ، أر And just seeing that, you know, how the children survived, but the father did not survive. And the kids were just looking at what just happened to their father. It is like nothing, there is no evil that can top this.

And that's someone who fought against Hamas. As someone who was with Hamas. As someone who was born in Hamas household, someone whose father established Hamas. The impact of just seeing that as the outcome, the creation of this monster, it was just devastating. I got sick. I got sick in the worst possible way. And for many years, I protected my father. أفستطيع أن أفستطيع أن أفستطيع أن أفستطيع أن أفستطيع أن أفستطيع أن أفستطيع أن أفستطيع أن أفستطيع أن أفستطيع أن أفستطيع أن أفستطيع أن أفستطيع أن أفستطيع أن أفستطيع أن أفستطيع أن أفستطيع أن أفستطيع أن أفستطيع أن أفستطيع أن أفستطيع أن أفستطيع أن أفستطيع أن أفستطيع أن أفستطيع أن أفستطيع أن أفستطيع أن أفستطيع أن أفستطيع أن أفستطيع أن أفستطيع أن أفستطيع أن أفستطيع أن أفستطيع أن أفستطيع أن أفستطيع أن أفستطيع أن أ أتمنى أنه أتمنى أنه أتمنى أنه أتمنى أنه أتمنى أنه أتمنى أنه أتمنى أنه أتمنى أنه أتمنى أنه أتمنى أنه أتمنى أنه أتمنى أنه أتمنى أنه أتمنى أنه أتمنى أنه أتمنى أنه أتمنى أنه أتمنى أنه أتمنى أنه أتمنى أنه أتمنى أنه أتمنى أنه أتمنى أنه أتمنى أنه أتمنى أنه أتمنى أنه أتمنى أنه أتمنى أنه أتمنى أنه أتمنى أنه أتمنى أنه أتمنى أنه أتمنى أنه أتمنى أنه أتمنى أنه أتمنى أنه أتمنى أنه So that was a decision. Even when he did that decision, I still loved him. And I understood his position. I brought lots of shame on him and whatever he did is okay. He's my father, I will always love him, up to October 7,

where I had to make a decision. And that was one of the hardest decisions that I had to make that in truth there is no compromising. Now we define the lines. And we cannot just say, Hamas is evil with one exception لأنه لا يتخذون في حالة. نحن نتخذون في المدينة. ونحن نقول أن حمس يحبون في حالة أخرى. أو هذه المدينة يحبون أن يحبون في حالة أخرى.

لا. نحن نتخذون في المدينة. وما حدثون في حالة أخرى ومن يحبون أن يحبون حالة أخرى and anyone who's who plotted, planned, even justified a genocide, a genocide that's not a massacre, it's not only a terrorist attack, it's a genocide by all standards. And it's happened in the 21st century, I had to define the lines, where do I stand? Cannot be one league here, one league there, and not even emotional connection to that world. And this is where I said publicly that Hamas leaders, wherever they are,

should be executed, assassinated, and no exceptions. And that includes Sheikh Hassan Yusuf. I may ask you a question, actually, a different question. Are you surprised that they were even able to penetrate Israel as much as they were able to, given Israel's intelligence? There are known to be the most intelligent, best army in the world, and then they were not even able to even help their own civilians for hours and hours and hours, no one could find anyone.

Did that surprise you? It's not a surprise as much as it's the nature of the Hamas' deception, because Israel considered the South Korean community after they would draw from Gaza as a potential threat, but there was a truth, there was a ceasefire, a permanent ceasefire that was not hosted, but it was protected by Qatar, by the United States and the international community. Egypt included what else? You don't bring your entire army and stay at emergency state all the time. Yes, it is the most powerful army, but can you stay at emergency state all the time? No, democracy can afford this. People need to go do their work eventually. And you can have a number of soldiers, but it would be for very basic defense purpose.

And we're talking about Muslim farmers in those communities. But they're plotting for so many years, two years to do this. Hamas knew this weakness. Yeah. Thanks to technology, drones, and the the help of Iran and other intelligence services. Do you think Putin helped because they wanted to take the plane?

I'm sure Russia helped Hamas. At least given them political cover, at least I don't want to say more, but Hamas had many trips to Damascus and what the heck were they doing in Moscow? What's their relation to the KGB? So basically even if it was a surprise, what are we expecting? You know when we have just the very basic soldiers Defending basically the bases and doing just very basic defense job and we're not talking about Now, you know the entire army is in the south it's an

emergency city. Well now it is but what I'm saying is like don't had an Israel like if they were planning and plotting for so many years wide in your opinion would Israel not have known about it? This is very secret I know what you were you trying to get with this you want me to say that there was a failure and there was a failure. I don't want there's I don't want this. There was. It's okay. It's okay because it's not it's not shame. It's again, Israel invests lots of energy in defense, in security, in the intelligence services, the most powerful. But this doesn't mean that they cannot make mistake. Especially when the enemy is hiding under the ground, and the enemy is avoiding to use technology,

and even those who carried the attack, they didn't know about the plan until the last moment. So Hamas kept the secret among a handful of people and that helped them a lot. They did not use technology and there is a possibility that they sent the wrong messages through technology to make Israel feel safe. And they were good at that. Maybe they were some informants that they actually were double agents. So they passed their own information. Don't you think that I would imagine that would be what would happen? There is a possibility. There is a possibility because in Gaza is very different. Like when I was

in the was in the was bank, for example, part I had to sit on a polygraph test all the time. Like there was no way for us and not not only me, actually, everybody within the intelligence community who had access to sensitive material or operation, everyone had to sit down on a polygraph test. Everyone. In Gaza, it's a different reality, and this is always was my concern. I was like, okay, now you're handling thousands of informants in Gaza. But how do you know that they are sincere and they are giving you actually legitimate information? I always ask myself this question, because if you are not able to bring them into the Israeli territory

and test them on regular basis, your enemy could take advantage of this gap and of this weakness and try to manipulate those assets and use them against you by giving you false sense of security or simply misinforming you. Then if Hamas was keeping the secret not revealing the plan, they say the mega plan, to Israel or to their members, then how Israel would know if they kept it in the hands of just few people.

So anyway, it's very hard now to tell everything. I'm sure there will be investigations of how Israel failed. A huge part of the failure that Hamas was attacking civilian communities and many of them looked like civilians and we didn't know who was who. So how can you bring the army to rescue those communities under attack, not knowing who's actually Hamas and who's Israel?

Basically, it was very hard to differentiate. And this is another part where the response had to take hours. It's not that people were afraid to just drive south. It's like how much force can you use without actually harming your own civilians trying to destroy the invaders? And I know you got to, I mean, I've kept you here so long and I really apologize. Can I ask you a couple more questions? Are you surprised by a couple things? That the destruction in Gaza now people are blaming Israel? What do you think of that? Like people are looking at Israel, like it's

their fault of all the destruction and in Gaza. When in reality, it's a they're defending, now they have to defend defending themselves. Are you surprised by that? Are you surprised by the amount of protesting on the West, you know, in the West about the anti-Semitism in the universities? What's happening? What's happened, I should say, since October 7th? And how much how many people are in support upon us on the West, in the West, I should say. Look, Israel is the victim or the only victim actually of a genocide. This is what happened. So, accusing Israel of committing genocide

while they are the victim of a genocide is not only unfair, it's absurd and so twisted. And like basically to take, I don't want to say, Arab victim and accuse them of being a rapist or being a force. But that's basically what this happening. This is exactly what happened. Yeah, that's exactly what's happening. So basically Israel being accused of something that is suffering of, and the gossens, they

give Hamas cover, they supported Hamas, they did not condemn Hamas, they hated Israel, they believed in the ideology of annihilating or having a genocide against Israel, which eventually took place for many, many years, tens of years. Since the establishment of the State of Israel, Palestinians did not agree to the existence of the State of Israel. Yes, there are a fact it was a tactical thing he approved it on paper, but that was ridiculous. It was not sincere and they didn't do anything in the education to actually change the paradigm or help the public accept Israel as a reality. Instead, they incited against Israel. So the practical steps on the ground weren't helpful to change this idea of the Palestinian society and the idea of annihilating Israel or ethnically cleansing everybody it kept growing and this is what we had to face eventually in October 7.

It was not just the day of October 7. It was just the whole process of indoctrination of political campaign, political propaganda. But how did they do it so well in Europe, in the West, like the US, Canada, everywhere else beyond the Middle East? There's millions of people protesting for pro-Palestine, pro-free Palestine, blah, blah, blah. How did, what, like, what was the tipping point in your opinion of how that happened, where Israel, the Jewish people became truly the enemy and the, you know, the oppressor to such a level now.

That's what I'm curious about. Did that surprise you on the wet in the West because you have, like, the LGBTQ, uh, you have, uh, you have the LGBTQ. The LGBT. Yes. Q-H. Thank you. Oh, pro-testing.

Protesting. Meanwhile, they would be shot and killed if they even entered these places. Is this surprising you? The amount of support coming from that, going towards that side. And what is that tipping point? What happened to indoctrinate kind of the Western culture to such a level? I don't want to say that this was a surprise because it doesn't know political boundaries.

There are no political boundaries. And it's instead of seeing it as pro-Palestine, as see as anti-Israel, anti-Semitism, anti-Jewish. This is the opportunity of many people who actually hate the Jewish community. And they have a problem. So they basically project in their hatred, trying to inflect pain on the Jewish people. And again, instead of condemning Hamas for committing a genocide against Israel, they were very fast condemned Israel of committing a genocide totally twisted and

the this is this is hatred and They don't even know what Palestine is. They don't even know you go ask for go ask people who are marching and protesting saying whatever they're River to the sea. They don't even know if it's a river or a sea. They have no idea They don't know what river or what sea. They know nothing. And again, like many, they don't know even what Palestine is. They don't even know how Palestine is. And this takes me back to my childhood, you know, where I got fed up with the cause, you know, because the cause. Everybody is swearing by the name of the cause and all the corruption, all the abuse, all the torture,

all the violence can be justified by the name of the cause, and for the cause, and because of the common enemy. So this is where I was screw this cause. I don't care, I don't care anymore. First, fix the basic things. Stop abusing children to begin with. Then we can talk about nationalism and the bigger issue. And now, it seems that this phenomenon called Palestine or cause is an ego trick.

So many people need the mask. I played the game myself growing up and my father still playing that game that many people. Where is your father now, by the way? He's in Israeli prison. Are they trying to get him back with the, I guess you don't know, with the hostage exchange? I'm sure. I don't know. I don't think so because he's not, he's not spending a long life term. He's not, he's just temporary there. temporary, temporary, like he's not he's not spending let's say a hundred years. How much is he spending there? He's just hanging out. Six months under administrative detention.

For what? For just being a Hamas leader. They can just let him out and they're going to have to let him out in six months. Yes, yes, it's democracy. If you don't have anything to convict him, you know, this is how Israel and this is why everybody, it's very hard fight for Israel that actually many of the high-profile terrorists had to be released because Israel could not convict them. And if you cannot convict somebody, how can you keep them in a prison in a democratic system?

And Hamas takes total advantage of this situation. But anyway, it's taken us back to the cause that many people need the cause. And what I see here, you know, angry, frustrated crowd projecting their personal hatred on this cause. They don't know that this is the contribution of so many societies and politicians, criminals, whatever you want to call it, throughout the conflict, called Palestinian conflict, that anybody could adapt the cause, say, this is my cause and try to project their hatred through this medium, through this device called Palestine. But what is Palestine?

We don't know. Is it a political entity? Is it nationalism? Is it ethnicity? Is it ethnic group? Is it a religion? Is it all that Is it ethnic group? Is it a religion? Is it all that or minus all that?

We don't know. There is no such a thing. It's hypothetical. It's just a very broad term called Palestine. And when people go blindly, say, just pro-Palestine, meaning anti-Israel. When they say Palestine from the river DC, they're nothing can Palestine, they're thinking wipe out Israel, any helly at Israel. The total destruction of this state of Israel.

Right. You're saying they don't care what they're saying as long as Israel's gone is basically the bottom line, which means that like there's been so much anti-semitism and Jewish hate just bubbling under the surface for so long and any reason or excuse to kind of bring it up is what's happening. American spend an average of 90% of their time indoors and take about 20,000 breaths a day and according to EPA, indoor air is two to five times more polluted than outdoor air, and in some cases, a hundred times more polluted. And data shows that air pollution is responsible

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you know, in the U.S. What can we do to help our cause, to kind of show people the way, to kind of create less negativity towards Israel or Judaism, or is it just a lost cause and it's just really impossible at this point? What would you say? First, we have to radicate Hamas. We cannot live with Hamas. They are now a threat, a global threat. And if they survive, tomorrow, they will be a lot more dangerous. So Israel cannot afford this. United States cannot afford this. Anybody who is concerned of the global security cannot afford Hamas

staying in power. They have to go. Post Hamas, I really don't know. And it looks like no one knows, because the United States hopes that the Palestinian Authority would come and replace Hamas. This is the easy solution. But I'm not sure Israel want to do this, يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخلل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخل و يدخ Hamas it was the Palestinian Authority and they mismanaged big time. They are the ones who failed their job to keep Hamas in check and Hamas had the coup back in 2007, took over the Gaza Strip and it was the fault of the Palestinian Authority. So today why do we trust them again? So anyway, it could be best case scenario, I would say best case scenario for Gaza, it واذا يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن يجب أن ي govern Gaza. If there will be any Gaza actually after this war. A war's case scenario, there will be Gaza with no infrastructure, everything would be destroyed from the mosque to roads, to institutions, government buildings, courts, everything is being destroyed right now in this war.

And in previous wars, Israel helped the Palestinians rebuild Gaza, helped the international community, the donors, to actually come back to Gaza and rebuild it. This time, I think Israel is not obligated, not after the genocide happened. ريبلد. هذا المدينة أعتقد أن إسرال لا يبقى ليس بعد جنساة حباً وإسرال إسرال إسرال لا يمكن أن يكون مرحباً وإسرال إسرال لا يمكن أن يكون مرحباً أن يكون مرحباً و مرحباً لهم أن يكون مرحباً لإسرال إفنس و هذا سيكون مرحباً لإسرال إفنس

لكن أنه سيكون لدية لغزة العسرية ولكن if this happened, if this happened يجب أن يكون مفتحة لغزة لأن همس يكون مفتحة لغزة و there will be time for retaliation where they want to get even لأن همس قلت و ترد و ترد و ترد الوصول في غزة killed and tortured, oppressed their rival party, Fatah in Gaza.

And there is going to be a time after this war with the infrastructure, with no police, no army, no institution, no building, no central government of any kind. Hamas will be just fleeing force, especially after their leadership is killed. So they will just flee in force and there is going to be a tribal conflict where Palestinian internal revenge will take a place. Naturally, and if that happens, when if Israel is not going to take responsibility for rebuilding Gaza and I don't think Israel will do anything, Israel is going to just destroy Hamas, possibly build this buffer zone and say, you know, do whatever you want on the other side and if you get close, we're going to destroy you. But this could mean a civil war in Gaza, could mean similar to the civil war that happened

in Lebanon. And this is the worst case scenario. The world is trying as much as they can to prevent this bad scenario from happening, but nobody can predict 100% of how Gaza post war would look like. But also Hamas is all over the world as you were saying earlier too, they're heavily funded. Who is, I mean as far as you know, who is, I know, sorry, you know, I know, I got so many questions for you. I know. Can I ask you one more question, then? Sure. Okay. You said something earlier and I never asked you and then I won't ask you what the funding right now. You keep in saying the word shame, shame. Can you talk about the shame

honor, doesn't honor shame part of this whole of your of your culture. And we talk about the martyrdom, are they offered money for each person Israeli civilian that they are killed? I heard there's a whole thing called pay the slay. Is that accurate? So the bases in the West are right and wrong. This is the scale. In the Middle East it's honor and shame. Very different value system. And everything is based on honor and shame. It's the honor of the tribe, it's the honor of the individual.

And this is why what I did was what could be the most shameful by the Arabian standards to become a traitor. And I became a traitor by choice. It's very different, you know, when you catch somebody in the act, then you shame them. And they would lose everything. Then someone was at the top of the game and everything was going to my advantage. Then I turned the table upside down and I said, this is what I did. I wrote a book about it, not being ashamed.

So it was my big fight with the enemy of shame, guilt and fear. This is those are the main demons that keep Arabians in darkness. Especially when someone sees that this is the right thing to do, but if you do the right thing, you will have to face the enemy of shame. The society will say, shame on you. If I saved a human life and that life was a Jewish life, shame on you. If I stopped a suicide bomber from reaching their target to kill many civilians, shame on you, you know, for doing this, this is treason. So, and what is bravery, bravery is to

take to put on a suicide belt and go blow yourself up killing many innocent people. This is honorable in that culture. It's praised. A society that praised suicide bombers. A society that's praising those savages who killed many on October 7, committing genocide. They are not condemned. They are praised as freedom fighters, as sacred warriors. So in this type of society, and this type of mentality, I had to challenge the value system and say, okay, you consider this

as treason. Therefore, I become a traitor. It's my choice, I do it willingly. You did not capture me and I am not afraid of your accusation. Whatever you think of me, your collective consciousness doesn't matter. What really matters, what I know is right to do. So if you look deep into the decisionmaking and the psychology behind it, and why it made such choices, this was one of the biggest enemies that I had to fight against. And again, as a rape victim, I was ashamed most of my life,

even though I was a victim of that. I could not tell anybody about it for shame. So again and again, fighting with this enemy called shame for doing the correct thing, that we should not be ashamed. And we should always fight for ourselves, and fight the good fight. I'm not talking about seeking revenge and being violent, and I in no way seeking revenge from my people. If I wanted to do this, I would be still there, and I would be seeking killing and destroying. But my approach has been completely different. That I need to find the origin of suffering, and that's falsehood.

And that's the absence of truth, the absence of reason, the absence of purity. And when we lose all the qualities, the divine qualities of society, and we replace them with violence, with abuse, with aggression, with manipulation, with corruption, with blaming, you know, blaming everything on something called Israel. Then we have fundamental problems. And this has been my fight. And it's honestly, it's the fight within. It's the fight within, that I had to fight it truthfully. I had to be 100% truthful to who I am and not concerned of what the people are going to say. Even if I get killed in the process, it's better to die in my pursuit to freedom than dying in cowardice. And so, right, And your idea, that's very different. The pay to slay is that act, is it accurate? The people get paid for a person.

Yes, yes, but this is ridiculous, though. This is like the American artificial way of seeing things. Okay. What's the point if you pay somebody and they are going to die? What they're going to do with the money after they're dead? What's for their family, I would imagine. No, it's, I mean, money plays a small, a small rule of this, but it's not the most fundamental thing. It's the human delusion.

It's the honor system. It's the honor system. It's the honor system. You honor your family. It's the, you become the hero of the nation. It's the promise of the afterlife of what's going to happen on the, you become the hero of the nation, it's the promise of the afterlife, of what's going to happen on the afterlife, and all the promises of whatever it is.

But there is lots of pleasure, and there is no pain, and there is no suffering. So why not just escape all this suffering that is caused by those Zionist enemy, destroy them, make them feel the pain. Then after that, just escape all the pain together into Atobia of absolute pleasure, where all the things that they could not achieve in this life, they would achieve it in the afterlife. So this is what the recruiters sell, the terrorists.

It's not only money, pay to slay. This can work in the case of a small crime group or organization, but at the level of Hamas where they are able to mobilize thousands, tens of thousands of soldiers who are willing to die for their cause. For their cause. And obey blindly, you need a lot more than money to move this type of dangerous people. Did I keep you long enough here, by the way? Yes, you did.

And it's about my dinner time. Oh, my God. Thank you so much. I don't know. I don't know. How long has it even been? I have no idea. I have like a million more questions, but like you've been so gracious.

Okay, everybody, I don't even know. You guys have to see the documentary, Green Prince, but please grab a copy of his book, The Son of Hamas. It is an amazing read. He is fascinating. So, I mean, you're also like you are a hero. You really are. I have to say the bravery that you have, the courage that you have to come out and speak your truth when it is not safe for you. It is quite dangerous. And so I had again, I am just so honored and happy that I've

got the chance to sit down with you, to meet you, to take you to Starbucks, the whole thing, you know? So, thank you so much for being on this podcast. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. I'm going to sleep now because it's been five hours. Bye.

Bye. This episode is brought to you by the YAP Media Podcast Network. I'm Holla Taha, CEO of the award-winning Digital Media Empire YAP Media, and host of YAP Young & Profiting Podcast, a number one entrepreneurship and self-improvement podcast where you can listen, learn, and profit. On Young & Profiting podcast, I interview the brightest minds in the world, and I turn their wisdom into actionable advice that you can use in your daily life. Each week, we dive into a new topic like the Art of Side Hustles, how to level up your influence and persuasion and goal setting.

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