Habits and Hustle - Episode 4: Cathy Heller – Creating Great Podcast Content, Why She Quit Her Successful Career, and The Importance of Being Vulnerable

Episode Date: March 21, 2019

Today we have Cathy Heller of the Don’t Keep Your Day Job podcast on the show. We talk about why Cathy quit her day job as a successful singer and songwriter to host what ultimately became one of the top downloaded shows of 2018. Cathy shares about the importance of being vulnerable, her own “Keanu Moment” and so much more. If you’re considering starting a podcast, take notes on this episode. She reveals the secrets of creating great content and the challenges she’s had while building her own show. 📺 Youtube Link to This Episode Cathy’s Podcast ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ Did you learn something from tuning in today? Please pay it forward and write us a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts. 📧If you have feedback for the show, please email [e-mail]  📙Get yourself a copy of Jennifer Cohen’s newest book from Habit Nest, Badass Body Goals Journal. ℹ️Habits & Hustle Website 📚Habit Nest Website 📱Follow Jennifer – Instagram – Facebook – Twitter – Jennifer’s Website Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When there's a penalty on the field, referees are there to sort it out. When there's an accident on the road, Sergeant Vindros, I'm glad you're okay. That's where USAA steps in. We help make the claims process easy, so drivers can get back on the road fast. Making the right calls, that's what we're made for. Membership eligibility and product restrictions apply in our subject to change. USAA means United Services Automobile Association and its affiliates.

San Antonio, Texas. Vitamin water zero sugar just dropped in all new taste. It was zero holding back on flavor. You can be your all feeling. I'll play and all self-care you. Grab the all new taste today. Vitamin water zero sugar. Nourishcare you. Grab the all new taste today. Vitamin water is zero sugar, nourish every you. Vitamin water is a registered trademark of glass O.

If you're listening to this episode, you probably know who Kathy Heller is already. Kathy's podcast, Don't Keep Your Day Job, was ranked when the top podcast of 2018. Kathy is a personal friend of mine and was actually a huge inspiration for me wanting to do this show. So I was really happy she could make time to come on my show today. We talked about her personal breakthrough moment and why it's so important to be vulnerable

in real life and on social media. She also shares plenty of tips about what makes a good podcast, the challenges she's had, building hers, and what she's learned along the way. If you're thinking about starting your own podcast, you need to listen and take notes. I certainly did. And even if you aren't, Kathy will inspire you to become your best self. Thank you. I have the most amazing guests today, guys.

I have Kathy Heller. No, Kathy Heller is the queen, the queen of all podcasts, and I am like beyond thrilled that you're here. I love you so much. No, please. The most said of the table every day. Every day. I mean, make me feel 22 feet tall.

Listen, you don't need me. You have how many four million people who also love you that much? We just hit five million. Oh, excuse me. See, that's what I mean. 5 million, pardon me. This girl is slaying every category in podcasting.

And I mean, if I can have a mentor in how to do it right, it is you. I feel the same about you. I left a meeting last week. My husband's like, text Jen, just see what she thinks about that. And she wrote back and I was like, okay, go live my life. Go on It is a love fest. We do actually have a love fest. I think you're incredible

I mean and you saw this in me Way before like I was the girl like just come in LA just starting out and you're like cab you got the fire And you know well not only that what you have not you have fire But you have extreme discipline, determination, and talent. Because, no, I think I don't know. Very determined. Beyond. Because this is not your first, like, you know, on trade into, like, entertainment, right?

Like, you are a super successful, what people maybe not know in my, in my world, they, obviously, in your world, they do is that you are an extremely talented songwriter and singer who's had a lot of success writing songs for like lots of major network TV shows, commercials, like McDonald's, Walmart, Kellogg's, Curricoppy, Creighton, Ferrell, Tim Moules. See, it can go on and on and on. Yeah, and it was great because it helped me build a little bit of a make a living, right? Doing commerce, doing something. Yeah.

That feels good, right? Paying the bills from having fun, that's a good thing. But you had, I mean, that's also an area, like you're going into areas that are, like legitimately and genuinely very, very difficult to break in. And you're figuring it away

because you're a super resourceful. And you see this in me because this is you. Well, we only see in other people what we have in our soul. I think in, and that's a compliment. That's a compliment, come in. Yes, and that's why we're together. Like, absolutely. I think that, like, you know, water fine,

people find gravitate to what they're similar to and appreciate those things. Because, yes, I'm a go getter, but I seriously feel like a wallflower compared to you and I'm not kidding. That's me. Let's... talking to me. Well, because number one, seriously feel like a wallflower compared to you and I'm not kidding because me talking to me well because

Number one, let's you walked up to Keanu Reeves when you were 18 19 years old and you're like listen I need I need you not even hey, I'm obsessed with you and I just want to picture you like I need to help me I want to be a VJ and I need an interview with you. That's true I did that and that was my kind of Just that okay, but I'll tell you That's true. I did that. And that was my kind of... Ooh! Just that. Okay, but I'll tell you something. People... That I did that. It happened.

I'm not a fact. 100%. No, they don't. They're gonna get you better. You better get to you. Well, come to listen to her on my podcast. That's true. So, Kathy's podcast is called Don't Keep Your Day Job.

And I talk all about my breakthrough moment and how I kind of felt like that was my moment that gave me the self confidence and self esteem. At that age when people are not even comfortable in their skin to like go to high school, you're like, Keanu, come here. Call me tomorrow. She's not lonely. And then this is what happened. And then come to my house, we'll hang.

And then it actually happened. I know. Well, my mom made him lunch. We made a demo tape. Peace. And I sent it in. Now, the moral of that story is I didn't get the job with much music, which is like the equivalent of a NMTV in the US, but I was the runner up. And, but what it did for me was it gave me that confidence to like feel like if you just kind of, if you're determined and you want something bad enough, you should go and have that tenacity to go for it.

Now, good question for you is, what was your breakthrough moment? What was your Keanu moment? So to speak, that made you turn the corner. That is such a good question. I've had so many of those kinds of moments. Like, I remember when I was starting out in the music industry and I'm like how am I going to get my music to actually be heard? Right, by a person who

actually could do something with it. And my friend Alex Benayan who you probably are gonna have on right now. He wrote a book called The Third Door and he's like there is always always always a third door. There's that first door which is like the 405 which is jam-packed. Don't take that road. Go around it. Absolutely. There's always another way in. Don't stand in the line at the club and go I guess we're not getting in. Dude go make friends with the guy who's like working over there and go talk to someone. Find a way in. So I always knew that and I've done that at every point in my career.

So when the music, one of the first moments was, okay, first of all, I'm going to pick up the phone. No one does that anymore. It's like pick up the phone. Absolutely. Oh my god. So I was calling Ogilvie McCann, Sachin Satchie, 70 calling at agencies. He was like, who are you calling?

What are you saying? And I'm like, it's okay. You can be a human being, right? And you can have, you can assume this like, be a friend, be casual. You know what people want more than anything in the world? Enthusiasm. When a person is enthusiastic and vulnerable and excited about something, that's all you need. You don't need six college degrees, you don't need to have written a book, just like, that's what you did that day with him need six college degrees, you don't need to have written a book just like, that's what you did that day with him. You're like, listen, I'm so passionate about this,

getting this part, I want to do this, and that vulnerability to be able to do that. And he then says, like, cool, another human being who just shows up, 99% is that showing up. So I kept feeling like I got to show up and I got to find different ways to show up. I remember one time I made this thing called

Mocha's in Music, which was like, I'm not good at graphic design, I don't know anything about it. I just went on to the computer and I made this thing and it was like a picture of a girl playing a guitar, like a little cartoon girl. And then I put a plus sign and then I put a picture of a Starbucks Prapacino and I was like, step one. What's your favorite Starbucks drink?

Step two, tell me a date and time to drop it off in your office. Step three, I'll show up and leave you caffeinated with some music, that's it. So I sent it out, I'll show up and leave you caffeinated with some music. That's it. So I sent it out. It was brilliant. It was so strappy.

It was so strappy. Yes. Sensing out to like 65 or so people. How did I find them? Because you Google it. You find it. We have the internet. It's the best time ever to be alive.

It's like they have this in 1974. Analog. So I found email addresses. Send it out. A bunch of people don't respond, some people are like, no, and then like 27 people, we're like, sure, Mokafrapa Chino, and I'm like, cool, does your assistant want something? Yeah, that's really nice. Definitely, get her a vanilla latte, cool. So I show up. What does it cost me? $10? Walk in, and I was really empathetic. I didn't walk in, assuming I'm gonna have like a 16 hour meeting.

I was like, what's up? I told you're bringing coffee. So cool of you to have me. Here's your coffee. Here's some music. Oh, by the way, is that your kid? Cute kid. I'm gonna go, you know, just be a human.

People are like, sit down. So some people had me sit for five minutes. Some people had me sit for 45 minutes. We just chatted. I became friendly with these people. And then the music was ready, because I had worked my butt off on trying to figure out what they actually needed.

And that's a big breakthrough too, because the difference between a hobby and a business, I had Seth go to it on my show, he said the difference between a hobby and a business, radical empathy, right? If anything's gonna be successful, and you want someone else to pay you for your thing, you should care about them, right? If anything's gonna be successful, and you want someone else to pay you for your thing, you should care about them, right?

Absolutely, I guess. Why, absolutely. All day long, they're thinking about you, who's walking in? What do you eat? What do you like? What color, what makes you feel good? What do you need?

Empathy, we live in an empathy deficit. And I think that that empathy, I think being able to communicate with humans, you're so good at that. Let's go back to that moment with him. That's what that is. It's like, empathy, I think being able to communicate with humans, you're so good at that. Let's go back to that moment with him. That's what that is. It's like, hey, I'm Jen. What's up? What is that? The break through the miracle is you knowing that you're worthy to say hello to him. Because who the hell is he? He's another human being, right? Like when you strip back Who we are and you go back, right? Before you had hands and feet and a brain, what were you when you were conceived?

You're just this life force. You're just this splash of abundant energy. Like I was just, let's see the Deepak Chopra who I just talked to yesterday about being on the show. And he was saying he goes, when you close your eyes and you think of a forest, it's just abundance, right? You look close your eyes and think of like creatures just like, ah, the moss and the dew and the ladybug and the dragonflies, there's so much in there. And you go, then you close your eyes, think about an ocean. It's so abundant.

It's just water for miles. Deep sideways, this way, that way. And what's the sea life look like? Oh my God, it's just like Gushing with abundance. Because then you close your eyes and think about yourself Inside of you so much abundance love compassion

Passion energy Enthusiasm that's it. That's your value cash. You know that like that the stuff. See, yeah, but what you're seeing how you do it. That's it. It's like you said, it's number one, it's having a personal touch, right? Like you figure out a way to connect to someone beyond just a text message or an email that really kind of sits and resonates.

What you're great at and what you just said, it's infectious because of how you do it. Like the way you just explain this whole thing to me. Oh, we all have that. I'm saying that's what you, when there's a crowd of people scrambling to get to him because that's how you put you, like we're outside of this concert,

or you're all this thing. It's always like that, right? There's all this noise, but when somebody is planted in their skin and I'm not perfect and it's okay and I don't have shame around it, I'm gonna bring all parts of myself to tea in the morning. My meditation teacher, she's like, when you have tea in the morning,

invite all parts of you. Invite yourself to structure part, invite your broken part. Guess what, your messiness, that's your message to the world. The only way you help someone is because you've been down there and now you can bring them out. We've talked about that.

We've definitely gone through in our lives a little bit similar. That's actually a little bit similar. That's actually a gift for me. You know, 20 Robins was, I heard him the other day. He was like, there's no straight lines in nature. Nothing. There's nothing like that. Everything is edges and curves and jagged. That's good. That's what helps you actually fit and do your thing. So it's that when you, that's the miracle. That's the miracle of your life. That's your breakthrough.

I'm worthy. And then I can actually show up. So then when I'm going to see of people and they're all clamoring for this guy. And I'm like, Kiana. And I'm here, right? I'm not like proving myself. I'm not masking it up.

I don't have it all together. I'm just Jen. He's that. Who's that? Right? No, I get you. People are dying. You can walk into Warren Buffett's office.

He could be having the busiest day in his life. If you take your seat at a table and you have vulnerability and you're present, there's presence. And you are enthusiastic and you have something to say to him. He's gonna listen. He's gonna go get this guy a job. Get him a chair. Let's go.

Oh, absolutely. Everyone's running for that at all times. And that's the rarest thing I agree with you. And I think that you have, you have that in leaps and, you have something within you in leaps and bounds that obviously resonates and it's infectious because of the way you just describe that. Most, not some people don't have that ability

to be that passionate about what they want. Some people are like, they know what they want kind of, but they have, they don't have a natural innate way to kind of figure out how to do it. So I guess my question to you is, how would you tell somebody who's not quite sure how to do it or like, how do they find it within themselves? Yeah, that's a really good question. See the thing is there's like an ocean. It's an ocean you have to cross and it's actually an illusion. You know like you think? It's not even there but that the ocean is all the crap that you've been told or taught and it's all an illusion. Like it, you grow up and there's like the days of wet cement, right?

We're like, you know, wet cement, you put your finger in it, it's days, it's an imprint. So when we're kids, oftentimes, either someone is telling us something that's not true, but they're indoctrinating, you're not enough. You did it, yeah. You know, when you grow up, you're gonna have to settle. All right, dreams don't come true.

All right, you know, working hard. Yeah, it's about, you know, when you grow up, you're gonna have to settle or a dream zone come true or you know Working hard. Yeah, it's about um, you know, you have to pay your dues Let it be easy like it's actually the universe god. It's supposed to be easy But we make it hard because there's so much resistance to the self Mm-hmm to the hunches and to the whispers you Follow the whisper and know it's enough and just go with it.

And you're not worried about it failing and falling on its face. That's the thing. It's all a process of exploration when we had Angela Duckworth on the podcast. She talked about how your thing, whatever your thing is, she goes, you don't discover it. You develop it.

Have you ever walked into a preschool and seen a three-year-old who's not messy? Oh, they're all messy. Yeah, they're all messy. You and I don't know how many things have I done that just fell on their face? I don't even remember, I'm onto the next thing. I'm like, let's keep going.

Who cares? It's part of the discovery process. So that's about letting go of the shame. So that's what it is. There's so much we fill ourselves with. There's just so much shame. So that's what it is. There's so much we fill our soul with. There's just so much shame. I don't have it together. I'm not ready. I'm not good enough. People are taking antidepressants left and right. It's like there's just so much of that in there. So that's what we have to acknowledge and say, first of all, could I maybe dip my pinky

toe into meditating a little so that I can notice this swirling storm. That's not myself. It's like, you're not your thought. Thoughts aren't facts. We all have what, 70,000 thoughts a day. I just heard Eckert told us this on the like 98% of your thoughts. You've had them every day.

And their garbage are like useless. So what we have to do is we have to find a little way to get into here, which then distances you from the thoughts and you see them pass through the mind like clouds, clouds, storm clouds, they pass. Sometimes you have a yucky feeling, sit with it. Okay, let it in, acknowledge it, and then it will pass. It will do its thing, right? So this is where we get stuck. It's like we constantly are resisting all this stuff that's going on. So I think that the first thing that has to happen is bring the darkness into the light. Ignore it. Instead of saying like, I'm great. I'm good. I'm going Facebook. I'm going Instagram. I'm perfect. Stop proving. How

about the vulnerability of like, I don't have it all together. Dear world. I'm anxious sometimes. Boom. Now you're at number together. Dear world, I'm anxious sometimes. Boom, now you're at number one. Well, absolutely. Everyone's in on that. You know what I mean? Let it be easy. There's no, that is, that's even that big illusion,

that mess of illusions that you're going to spend the rest of your life trying to sort through and tease out and you will get better at like stopping, believing in those things and you'll start to feel your power and you'll arrive home to yourself. Great, you'll do that. But in the meantime, even all those like self-doubting thoughts bring them into the light. Right. And then they don't have any power because everyone goes me too, same. Same. So it's all just being made so much harder than it has to be.

Vitamin water just dropped a new zero sugar flavor called with love. Get the taste of raspberry and dark chocolate for the all warm. All fuzzy, all self-care, zero self-doubt you. Grab a with love today. Vitamin water's zero sugar, nourish every you. Vitamin water is a registered trademark of glass O. So do you think that social media is good for that or bad for that? Because I think that what social media does is it makes everyone feel less than

a lot of times because people are only posting their most beautiful pictures with the filters and their best moments. Right. You know, what I see, what you do, you give people inspirational messages that are not like, it's okay to be okay. It's okay not to be okay, or to be not to be okay. And I think there are people who are doing it now,

maybe, what do you think? Like, what's your idea of all this? Well, I think you're absolutely right. I mean, I think that it can't, look, it's a tool. It's powerful, you know. In 1987, I didn't know what the person next door to me was doing, let alone the person seven houses away. Now I can find out what everybody's doing in a second,

and it's not real because most people are gonna post, like I had the perfect lunch, I had the perfect day with sex every night, I look great, look at my lips, it's like you're using a filter, you know, everything, right? So what happens using a filter. You know, everything. So what happens is then everyone's comparing themselves and meanwhile you're comparing yourself to something that doesn't even exist. So that's a problem.

And then what happens is we compare our behind the scenes messy life to this person's perfect life and this part. And then we think we get this like false sense of reality like, wait, why would I even try? Because this person is doing it and she's brilliant, or perfect, I'm not that like that. It's like, no, because you're not seeing the reality of it, right? So that is a big problem at the same time. What if we use that platform? What if we used our space in that landscape to shine a big light on the imperfections? Now, oh my God, here's the thing. Again, going back to what I was saying before, butions. Now, oh my God, here's the thing.

Again, going back to what I was saying before, but walking into that moment with Keanu or me walking into those agencies or how I showed up in the podcast space, it doesn't take much to stand out if you're willing to drop the shame and tell the truth. Right. That's when it's like, oh, Kath, I'm just,

I'm not saying anything, I'm not doing any, all I'm doing is telling the truth. It's like, I'll post some things. I'm not, sometimes on Instagram, I'm not saying anything. I'm not doing any, all I'm doing is telling the truth. It's like, I'll post some things. I'm not, sometimes on Instagram, I'll be like, so anxious right now. I'm so overwhelmed. I just want to like put on fuzzy socks and watch Netflix. And everyone's like, same.

I'm like, of course. Right. I can't believe this. I'm crying. I'm like, what are you crying from? I'm crying because I just want to meet another person. I'm in a storm. It's hard to be an adult.

It's hard to be a human being. We're mortal. We know that. There's loss. We want so much to have meaning in our life. We want purpose. We have to overcome all the self-doubt. We have crap in our family past. We have so much on our plate. It's like you just want someone once in a while to show up and be like, I see you. I know how hard this is. We're all in this. There's no, like when my grandmother passed away, my husband said, like, we were both crying. And he lost his dad when he was a kid. So he feels grief in like a deeper way.

And so I looked at him and I said to him, you've known this story since you're a kid that people die. He goes, yeah, he goes, the one nice part of it is that, like, no one gets out of this alive. Like there's no island where someone goes, oh yeah, I got around that. Like I'm not, there's a way out of that. And you know, it's just you too.

And you're the one who's like, we're all in that. There's like a humanity. Same thing with the struggle of like, within a day, let alone a week, everyone's feeling everything. You feel overwhelmed sometimes, you feel scared, you feel like, why are we not talking about that? Why can't we talk about that?

That's why Brunei Brown like shot up like a rocket just for saying like, hey, I don't always feel great. And is that okay? Yeah, there's actually so much strength in that. That's what I'm saying. We have to let it be easy. Absolutely. It's easier than we make it.

Just show up and be yourself. And it's enough. And then what do you do then? You give other people permission to be themselves. And they're like, thank God you showed up. Because now I can be me. And we can all stop trying to put on the perfect hair. And the purpose, like, we're doing our best.

That's it. Absolutely. And I think it's live it is fear-based. People are scared to be their authentic self. And because of that, then all these other problems come to be. But with you, okay, so you had this, so you basically, that was your breakthrough moment. I got you.

And then how you kind of pivoted into the space. Like you did, you had a very successful career. You did, I broke through. That was my breakthrough in you. In you advertising and TV and film. So that year I got like 27 placements. Every one of those people gave me a spot on a TV show. I remember.

You got all of them, all of them, all of them. Holy crap. But we're talking about five years before that of being dropped from two record labels. Interscope dropped me, Atlantic records dropped me. I went and got like a real job, wore a pantsuit and did all the back of the bag. You did?

I can't even imagine you doing that. Seriously? Where were you working? I was working in Brentwood for a guy who my sister met while she was at the Cheesecake Factory. And he was like, I need someone to work in my commercial real estate office. I can't even imagine.

And you know what, but that was so good for me because I was working around people who literally woke up every day for money. And I realized how much that sucks. Like I just didn't wanna like make money. I wanna make something. Right, right. And then make money as a result of adding value.

So, but I made money, was able to then save money to go and work on music stuff and write music full-time Which was really smart and cool and I knew that I was like, oh, I'm gonna let this day job be my investor And I'm gonna do this day job while figuring out a way to do the music DIY because I was dropped from the label We've talked about this. People often think you need to be part of a machine. You need to be You gotta be hooked into Atlantic records. It's like we live in the best time ever. You got Wi a machine. You need to be, that's the absolute. You've got to be hooked into Atlantic records. It's like, we live in the best time ever. You got Wi-Fi, you're good.

Go make stuff. Stop waiting and make something. So that job actually helped me a lot. And I learned how to, you know, when you're working commercial real estate, everybody is like, no one's afraid to pick up the phone, have a conversation. And anyway, I learned a lot from that.

But yeah, I did that. Then I broke through with the music thing. But you're resilient. So what you do is you got dropped. And that happens all the time, have a conversation, and anyway, I learned a lot from that. But yeah, I did that, then I broke through with the music thing. But you're resilient. So what you do is you got dropped, and that happens all the time, by the way. People get, especially, this is like, that's what I'm saying, in that business, it is extremely competitive

and cutthroat, and you could have a great contract with a great label, and then next thing you know, they don't do anything with you. It's a business. And you're shelved. Exactly, it's a business like everything else. Yeah, they have to know they're gonna sell records. Right, but the funny thing is though, not, okay, so you're resilientved. Exactly. It's a business. It's like everything else. Yeah. They have to know they're gonna sell records. Right, but the funny thing is though, not okay, so you're resilient, but your record, like your music is

really catchy and it did well. Well, wound up doing well even without the label. And film and that's what I want of getting back into after I quit my job and then started working on that full time and I was using my cold calling skills. Everything you always look back in your life and you see everything actually helps you. You know, like I was editor in my college paper at the time I wanted to like reach out to people on campus and uplift them and it helped me learn how to write. And so that I look back and like that experience was helpful.

And I was a C student and like that helped me really find my way also was just like taking that job on and you're very, I'm not to interrupt you, but you're very high in your emotional intelligence because no, it's true. And that's therapy a long time, but maybe that's helpful. It spends a lot of money on it, but you know what? It's obviously helped you. It helped me.

But I think though you have a very high EQ and that is what you said I agree with also earlier, which is you could have 100 degrees, but if you don't have a high EQ and you can't figure, you can't be resilient and resourceful and connect to people in a real, real way, that's authentic. It doesn't matter how you do that. And everybody can do that. We have to start spending time giving our self permission and showing up for our self and getting a little quiet, which is why I really, I mean, people brush their teeth twice a day, people should their teeth twice a day,

people should be meditating twice a day, even five minutes. Like, there's so many easy ways to do it on your phone, on an app, it's so easy to do. Is that your thing now? Yeah, that mean I started that in 2007. I think UCLA, Mindful Awareness Resource Center, that's a long story, but that really,

that was like a control all delete on my life, in a lot of ways. That's really, yeah, and just how much are you doing it now? I try to do that every day for how long at a time. Even if it's 10 minutes, sometimes I can do 30 minutes, sometimes I can do it in the evening also. I mean, Jerry Seinfeld meditates twice a day,

Ellen meditates twice a day, Phil Jackson had the Lakers meditating every day. Can I tell you something? I am like obviously very new at this whole podcast thing, but I will tell you almost every single person I've had on has said that they have meditation as part of their daily practice of habits and rituals. Because you wake up, you grab the phone. 100%.

And now you're in. And it's like, we need to get a little space to figure out, like, what do I really want to lean into? What am I going to intentionally sort of work on? And what's really me and what's these thoughts? And where do I stop and those thoughts begin and which ones are true, which ones aren't? I mean, and after a while you notice the garbage and you go, oh, okay, there's that thing again, okay? And you just don't, you don't react as strongly. Also, it lets you feel sad if you want to feel sad. And then it kind of passes rather than like avoiding your sadness all day long and then taking it out

in like destructive ways or trying to self-medicate by not noticing that you're just feeling overwhelmed. So yeah, I do think that that's really helpful. But for me, I wound up going back and then the breakthrough was the music thing. Started making a few hundred thousand dollars a year licensing my music. And then after a little while, I just knew. And again, I love this. I love teaching this

message that like, there's so much more to us than one thing. Look at you. You've written books. You've been done TV. You've done speaking. You've now do a podcast. There's, and who knows, right? I'm gonna have you want every podcast. So much big. I can't go this wide. I'm telling you. No, but like, you're, and it's like, what we. I would have you want every pocket. Oh, much bigger. I would have you want every pocket. Oh, much bigger. I would have you want every pocket.

Oh, much bigger. I would have you want every pocket. Oh, much bigger. I would have you want every pocket. Oh, much bigger. I would have you want every pocket. Oh, much bigger. I would have you want every pocket.

Oh, much bigger. I would have you want every pocket. Oh, much bigger. I would have you want every pocket. Oh, much bigger. I would have you want every pocket. Oh, much bigger. I would have you want every pocket.

Oh, much bigger. I would have you want every pocket. Oh, much bigger. I would have you want every pocket. Oh, much bigger. I would have you want every pocket. Oh, much bigger. I would have you want every pocket. Oh, much bigger. Oh, much bigger. Oh, much bigger. Oh, much bigger. Oh, much bigger. Oh, much bigger. Oh, much bigger. Oh, much bigger. Oh, much bigger. Oh, much bigger. Oh, much bigger. Oh, much bigger. Oh, much bigger. Oh, much bigger. Oh, much bigger. Oh, much bigger. Oh, much bigger. Oh, much bigger. Oh, much bigger. Oh, much bigger. Oh, much bigger. Oh, much, after doing music for a while, I love you. That's true though. And it's so true. So, and I love that you let it in. That's when when you say I love you, that's the part of you that's going, yeah. Well, because I love you, because a, you're so infectious and you are so inspirational and aspirational. And I'll tell you, because we'll get to your thing right now, because I'm only here doing this podcast because of you. Yes!

And you know this, because we were having breakfast, and I was telling you about this show. And you'll really know that, I kinda know it. Oh, you were like, I thought maybe it was a piece, not like a whole. It, well, no, a hundred percent. I love this!

Okay, what a hundred percent. Because you are so much to give, and it's just like another avenue, and you're already giving a ton. It's another avenue. Now, listen%. I was doing so much to give, and it's just like another avenue, and you're already giving a ton. It's another avenue. Now listen, I appreciate everything you're saying, and I was saying to you, I was draining you a cook,

which means I was basically like, my God, she's speaking you. I am speaking to you. I love it, of course. Well, you know what I mean? Because I was like going on and on about how this show didn't work and how this and what do I do?

You remember, I wanted to create this whole thing about habits and rituals, the blah, blah, blah, blah. And you're like, we're waiting for all these other big corporate people to help you do it. Why don't you just do it yourself. You have the power within you. If anyone can do it.

You just said, everybody, it's like everyone's waiting for the wizard. Yes. It's come along, right? And they're gonna give you the whole thing. Clive Davis is gonna meet you. You're gonna send them back to that. Absolutely. You're singing in them back to that church choir.

And he's gonna be like, I make guests back. Yeah, I'm gonna make sure. See, it's like, it's done. Like that's not happening. But what is happening is you can get busy making things. And if you get to be that squeaky wheel and you keep trying things, I promise you will be led to the way that you can serve the world,

especially if you do that, when I was talking about Angela Duckworth said in her book, grit, and she was on my podcast and talk. I thought, love that, she's like, I love that. Just develop it, you know, when scientists go in the lab, they don't have, you don't set yourself up for a defeat by saying, I'm gonna do this one thing, and if this doesn't work, I'm done.

You're already done. You may as well not do anything, right? Because it's like, that's not life. That's not how it works. I went through 15 rounds of fertility treatment. I have three kids to do the math. How many miscarriages? How much garbage? How many hormones? How many months of like feeling like I was a raving lunatic? A lot. Also, in that experience of going through fertility treatment, I saw what a miracle it is. Not just to get pregnant, a lot of people can get pregnant. Sarah Silverman has a great joke. She was like, well, I was thinking about having kids and I realized the best time to get pregnant. It's when you're a teenager.

It's true, it's no. So the point is, it's not always that hard to get pregnant for everyone. But the miracle, the lottery is that it's you that becomes the person, because the amount of potential humans that can be created. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. It's not infinite, but I think it's one in 400 trillion that you,

it would decided to be you, out of all the DNA that was swimming around in that moment. How crazy is that? I love to have all these stats on top of it. Well, one in 400 trillion, it's like that might, maybe make you think like, there might be a reason, you know? Absolutely.

So I feel like the fact that we're here, yeah, it's like we gotta get busy making stuff and we live in a time like no other. Like as long as you have running water and some Wi-Fi, yeah, you're good to go basically. Look, I have a friend recently who's like, Kath, I want to sell a show to a network. I'm like, what's your show?

And she shows me the show. I'm like, no, you live in a time where it's so easy to prove a concept that if you have improved the concept, why are they going in on that? Yeah, so true. Get out and prove it. You don't need them. Go to a place where you put it on YouTube,

you put it on Instagram, you put it on IGTV, you put it on Facebook, and you now have this many people, now go need them. Get to a place where you put it on YouTube. You put it on Instagram. You put it on IGTV, you put it on Facebook Watch, and you now have this many people. Now go to them. And then why do you need them now? Why do you need them? They're gonna come after you. I don't even get it. It's because again,

where everyone's, I think there's a fear factor here, right? People are scared to kind of push through and do something on their own. I mean, I had it. That's why I was sitting with you, being like, I don't know, what do I do about this show? Did it? And you put, you inspired me to be like, you know, what was the worst that can happen? You have the power within you. And you're very good at that. Like, that's the thing. I think that at the end of the day, people have to just like try and be okay with, with not maybe 60 16 in the first time. Right?

And just knowing that they have the power within them. So what I look is, so explain what's this room for everybody's light too. I think people think there's no room. It's like, there's already a thousand vlogs on this topic. There's already a million podcasts. So like, so what? 100%.

Because every, there's seven and a half billion people on the planet. How many people have you met in your life? How many, thousands? But that's what I said to you. How many people do I actually want to have over for dinner? You and like four other people. Oh, thank you.

So my point is, there's people that are your people. There's gonna be a podcast. You're gonna be like, I like that. This is a similar message to this podcast. That's some reason, I don't like this girl. I like this guy. But that's what I said to you. About your podcast, right?

But, there's some people who are like, she's not my flavor. It's like great. But the question then is, how do you, I mean, things have a point. But some people are like, she's not my flavor. It's great. Okay, but the question then is like, how do you, I mean, things are cluttered. And you have to kind of kind of push past that within yourself and feel like you can make a difference and you have the power within you to kind of create. But then there is the reality, which is okay.

Now you have a lot of competition to stand out. So if you are someone who's authentic and if you are someone who has something to say, then what? Like, you're a perfect example. So let's talk about it. Let's talk about it. How do you stand out?

How do you stand out? How do you stand out? How do you stand out? How do you stand out? So first of all, going back to that radical empathy, that's huge. How many people, if we really go back enough, think about what you're hearing or what your content you're absorbing, how much of it do you really feel is like somebody who's like,

worked really hard to like curate a perfect persona and how many of those people are you really feel them right very few very few so why is Oprah because because she's cried on almost every episode, right? Like she's like, hi, here I am, like here I am. When she's excited, she's excited. When she's sad, she's just not coming out of her nose. And there's something about that. People are like, oh, okay, that's me. So recently I heard, you know, JPCers, you know, he does those like yoga videos. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's so funny. But I heard him on an interview, it was so interesting. Somebody said to him, what makes something go viral? And he was quoting all these statistics. And he was saying something about how, what makes something go viral? It's not how informative the video is or the blog.

It's not how entertaining it is. It's how much you're reflecting the feelings and thoughts of the people who are watching or reading in that. When we see ourselves reflected back, we're in, right? So that's where when we can let those things be a part of the conversation and the discussion, that's where things start to really heat up and you start to stand out. That's so good. Because now you're separating yourself from everybody else. One thing I love about

Apple is that the culture there, it's not about people who think that they're in the coolest place in the world. They're actually, they're hiring people who very much, the culture is very much about where we're the same, we're equal. So it's not a pretentious culture, which is cool. That's good to know. Yeah. So I really love the people who I connected with and we just connected and we stayed connected. And I was very respectful of that relationship. I didn't just like send them every episode, you know, and I was like, what, what would I send them that? And, and I think I had a grow, you know, in so certain episodes, they featured, which helped a lot. And they just featured us as the number one podcast of 2019, which was unbelievable.

Amazing. It's amazing, it's an understatement, my dear. I know it's a mate, I mean, when it had, I showed my husband when it was on the podcast homepage and my husband's like, it's cool. It's like, it's not cool. It's like winning the Kentucky Derby, it's podcast. It's like, it's so validating

and I feel so grateful for the opportunity. I mean, I get emails from people who are like, yeah, what you're doing is literally making a difference in my life. So the good, that's what I want to do. Absolutely. I mean, that is beyond a feat. I mean, like you said, it's like,

it's more than winning the Kentucky Derby because how many podcasts are there? I would say there's, how many? Hundreds of thousands? I think there's a million a week. Okay. A million uploaded a week. A million.

Like you were number one. Number one. Do you understand? Number one. It's amazing. It's beyond. And that just is just a testament to who you are. I started in my closet.

I know. With nothing. No network. I mean, nothing. When I did your podcast, remember you're like, you threw, even that was like, by the way, that was only like, let's say what, six, seven months ago. So you were ready at like the tippy top of that. You literally threw me a microphone. You're like, he's sit down over here and let's just do it. Like it was super like just who you are. You're like barefoot in your house. And I was like, uh, okay. And I sit down

and I'm like, all right, there we go. You know? But like, that's you, you're being you. Because it's the conversation. It's a conversation. I feel like people spend so much time and energy on the bells. And it's so true. And it's like, just get to what's actually- It's absolutely important. So you can get your laptop, plug in a microphone, sit in your closet,

and you can make something amazing. Just if you can just let go of the shame, like, and just talk talk and just tell the truth and just know that just you're gonna support you in this world or hope to you know but I mean like I've got people work so hard to earn love and to earn respect it's like you can actually just you know be yourself and it's amazing how other people will be like thank God you know I'm like that thanks thanks for being someone who has the bravery it's like such other people will be like, thank God. You know, I'm like that. Thanks. Thanks for being someone who has the bravery.

It's like such bravery to say that you're anxious. Like, we're all forget anxious. Who's how are we not talking about that every day? How is every conversation not a little bit talking about that? Well, especially someone, I mean, like you, like me, we have, we have like a family, we've got kids. We have so many things we have to balance.

It's really hard not to be anxious when. And you live in a time where there's like this pressure, you know, especially for women, where now, you know, after women's live in the place that we're in, it's sort of like, of course you're gonna be able to make seven figures and be a great mom and a good organic and be mindful. You can do it all.

It's like, how about you can do it all and then you can have a nervous breakdown. Like, you, of course, you can do it all. Of course, you can, you can do it all. It's like how about you can do it all and then you can have a nervous breakdown. Like you of course you can do it all. Of course you can you can do it but could you happily respectfully healthy in a way that you can actually be happy. No. So let's talk about how difficult it is to balance all that and for women who are breadwinners and all. I mean there's so much on our our plate right at the time, you're still a human being, just like, you want your husband to tell you like, pretty every day.

Like, there's just a lot going on right now. Right, exactly. No, I think that you're absolutely right. Like, how much time, though, because of this? Like, first of all, I actually want to ask you something else. Now that you have a successful podcast, you have a successful music career, we didn't even talk about how now you're helping up,

well, you've been helping all these artists who are talented but don't have a way in. Right. And helping you. Right. Do you want to first talk about that or can I? Yeah. Yeah. Talk whatever. No. I mean that's just one thing I've been doing is helping songwriters find a way in and so I started a course. I started that when I was pregnant with my third daughter. She's now two and a half and I didn't know what I was doing. But I was like doing all these workshops for songwriters. I was pregnant with my third daughter, she's now two and a half and I didn't know what I was doing. But I was like doing all these workshops for songwriters. I was speaking at the Billboard Film and TV conference and I was in a few big magazines and so I was getting, you know, a variety did a full-page story on my music career and the title was like writing her own check and Billboard

did a story and I was like, you know, she's the guru of this and whatever. So people started reaching out and I did a few people's podcasts before I had a podcast. And artists were saying, could you help me, can you help me get my music in? And so I started a course, and I was pregnant, and my kids were home that summer, and I was tired, and I woke up early, and I was like, let's just see if I could put something together

so I could connect with people all over the world. And I go live just for my course a couple times a month, and I hired a team to help me. And I go live just for my course a couple times a month and I hired a team to help me. And the course made, you know, seven figures, which was great. But yes, 30% of those students started getting licenses, you know, BMW, Lowe's, Lexus, course light, Starbucks, a bunch of TV stuff. It's just been so cool. And then we have all these beautiful testimonials, people saying like, this wasn't just a course like this actually change me and because of them I want to give them credit because one of the girls in the course was the girl who said Amy

Loftis she's like you should start a podcast and if it wasn't for that course I wouldn't have started the podcast and every single thing leads you to everything leads you to the next thing and that's why you don't know It's sort of like saying to yourself every day, you got one question, it's like, how am I gonna serve? What value do I have? So we have so much value, you've got so many arrows and so many quivers, there's so much here, there's a treasure trove.

So it's a matter of waking up and just being like, when they try this, you never know which, I didn't even know what a podcast was 10 years ago. And if you asked me 15 years ago, what I wanted to do with my life, I would have said I want to sing, I want to tour the country, I want to be like Cheryl Crow, and I wouldn't have blinders and Jennifer,

when she was on the podcast, she said something so smart because she's obviously an actress and her husband is a writer-director. And she's like, we both came out here on the same time and I was, she goes, look, I fought and I worked and I got to where I am. And it wasn't an overnight thing, but it happened to her within like six years.

She got to play Pam on the office and her whole life changed, but she worked for that. She goes, my husband, he comes out here and he went to a great acting conservatory. She's like, it just wasn't happening. And she said, I respect so much that at some point, one of his friends said, we need someone to write a short film and he decided he'd write it. And then he got a lot of good praise and he didn't

say I'm an actor my ego can't handle that. He was like let's do this and then he started to become a successful writer director and she's like and that takes frosting that your work it will find its way out but sometimes this isn't your work. Like, I was sitting at sunset sounds with Ron Fair watching Lady Gaga record paparazzi when I was signed in her scope. Oh wow.

And I knew it wasn't my place. I was like, I don't have these jobs. Don't. I write good songs. They're good. They're sweet. You know, like, there's room for them, but they're not like, I was like, it's not my work.

Like, I'm not gonna do this. I'm not gonna do that. I knew it. And I was like, it's not my work. Like, I'm not gonna do this. I'm not gonna do that. I knew it. And I was like, I felt like such a fraud in my heart would race. Really? Yeah, he took me the IV one night, and I'm sitting with him and I'm like,

I'm not me. Like, I knew filling up those stadiums. And then there were some comments. Oh, wow, you were so talented and you had the top two. Because I already knew the silence. I knew there was like, Kathy who has confidence and we're talking self-doubt and then there's where it's not self-doubt

It's like a knowing because we were having conversations about like where the vocals had to get to and the coaching and the training I had to do for that and the stamina and I had to work on my like live act and like just and I was like I get it I get it and I just knew I just sort of knew and I also then felt I Know why I really wanted to be on that stage. I really wanted to do this I didn't know how to say it, but I want when I graduated from college I was like I want to be a minister. I mean I'm a Jewish girl, so that probably wouldn't work up I wanted to do that I wanted to do something like that and I didn't know what that looked like when I wrote for the school Paper so when I started saying I want to be a pop star

It was because I didn't know any other way to tour the world and spread a message. There was nothing else modeled. And so then I'm sitting there and I'm going, she's incredible. I was like, this is her. Like, oh my God. And he was like, yeah, you know, for years, she's been sitting here as a writer for other people. That's what she was doing apparently. And then finally, someone listened to one of her songs. And for years, people were like, your songs aren't good enough. And then finally, they took a chance on her. But I was like, no, no, she's gonna go the disc.

She's incredible. And I knew like, we're just not in the same lane. Like, they're different, different, different. And thank God I got dropped because at the time, it sucked, but it led me to this. So. Attention, Kroger Shoppers. Did you know there's a world of innovative services and patient care right in store?

It's where an award-winning pharmacy and nationally recognized care come together. Connect with one of our licensed pharmacists today at your local Croger and experience the care you and your family deserve. Croger Health, a world of care, is in store. Services and availability vary by location. Age and other restrictions may apply. For coverage, consult your health insurance company. Visit the pharmacy or our site for details.

So you pivoted, but you always had a constantly. But you obviously, you succeed in almost everything. Not every, listen, you've had success in writing music, building a business to help others. So it's kind of like a label more or less. Like it's a little bit like a publishing company. Right. Like a publishing company.

I know. Then you have success of course with the podcast. So what's next? Now that this podcast is, oh my god, that's just success for you. You're fun. How do you, now would you pivot to or how do you expand? Yeah, I want to expand it. And that's the thing.

Someone said to me the other day, so what's your five-year plan? I'm like, I don't do that. Okay, what's your six-month plan? I was asking. You don't do that. Okay, what's your six-month plan? I was asking. You know what it is? It's like, it's just a matter of getting in the current and staying in the flow. And when you're in the flow, you just, things just come, you know, the right things and you trust that.

So you don't put blinders on it, I'm saying, this is where I'm supposed to be. You know, I heard Oprah talk. I went to her Super Soul Sunday taping about a year ago and she was talking about this book she loves called Seat of the Soul by Gary Zuka. She had him on apparently like 35 times. She did. She loved it. She was a big guest of hers.

Yeah. Right. So she says, why do I love that book? She goes, because it was the first time I realized what my path was and what the answer to that question is, what's your goal? What's your plan? And she's like, she talks about how in that book, he talks about how there's a mothership, which is God, that's what he says. And then there's all these little ships. And our job is to point our little ship in the direction of that mothership, right? And getting the flow of like how we serve,

what our job is to help serve this beautiful universe. And so she goes, and you just point yourself home. You know, that's it. You just point yourself in the direction of home and the right things come. And she's like, and that's when everything changed for me. I was like, I'm just gonna point myself in that direction. And I'm just gonna serve, and it's gonna come.

And that's, that's our job, right? Isn't that powerful? It is powerful, but I much more, like where my head goes, I'm like, well, what direction are you gonna be pointed? Are you pointing here? Are you pointing there? I think what you're putting in.

And you ask yourself, like, what really feels like the work I wanna lean into? Like, where can I really add value? And sometimes you don't know right away. And so it takes like trying for things and then you the world is merciful it lets you know it'll be like no it wasn't so like I wrote a book on songwriting in 2013 wrote the whole book pitched it to a bunch of nobody wanted it I was like oh yeah not really yeah and then I look back on what song, right?

Like, how did it sound about? It was said I'm not gonna be successful as a song. I look back, I'm like, yeah, that's not my thing. Then I started a podcast in the closet two years ago sitting on the floor, and within a week, I get an email from this woman, she's like, I work in publishing, you should have a book, and then it was like, easy.

And then she came to me and I signed my book deal. So that was then, that's the book that's coming out when like next year, right? In November. God, why is it take so long? It does take a long, long time. But yeah, it's finally written, it's done. So that woman came to you right when you started your podcast.

After the first episode, I get an email. She's like, how? But why's it even because of the success of the podcast? No, she was like, your voice, what you're saying, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this is a good book. And it just was so, it's like, if it's the right path, it's like picking up this cup.

Yeah. And if it's not, it's just gonna, there's gonna be resistance. That's amazing. I didn't realize that that was the same idea. I was, I was, I took so long, I wrote it, then it wasn't good. I had to write it again, then my editor,

she got fired from the company, got a new editor, she was good, she pushed me to be better, finally finished it, and then funny enough, Martha Beck, you know, Martha Beck. Yeah, the whole one, Martha, she's like Oprah's life coach, she has three Harvard degrees, she wrote like, oh, I'm finding her North Star,

she's great. I know these names because the Oprah, I know, whenever they're affiliated with the Oprah, like the names are like floating in my head. She's so great. So funny enough I had gone to see Oprah another time. I've only seen her twice. Once was the time I just said at the Super Soul taping and then another time was 10 years ago. She did this thing called Oprah University and it was up in San Francisco. And Suzy Orman was there and Nate Berkis and Martha Beck and her. All the favorites. I think Mary and Williamson, I don't know, I think she was there.

And so, yeah, all her favorite people. And she came out at the end, which was amazing. But Martha Beck was there. I remember walking out of the conference and crying, being like, I don't know what I'm supposed to do with my life, but I just feel so, was amazing. And then 10 years later, you know, you get these photos pop up on your phone, like here you are a year ago. Sometimes I have photos from nine years ago, sometimes I only have

photos from three years ago, but whatever it is, on this day, for whatever years I have photos, it shows up on my phone. It's like, these are your photos. So I go to interview Martha Beck, and I'm walking in, I see photos today, last year, today, two years ago, and then there's a big gap, and then there was a picture from today, 10 years earlier, and I was photos today, last year, today, they two years ago, and then there's a big gap, and then there was a picture from today, 10 years earlier, and I was walking out of Martha Beck's talk, and I said to her, I was like, I just realized five minutes ago, that a decade ago, to the day, I heard you speak,

cried my eyes out, and now you're on my show, and she wrote a beautiful blurb for the book, and I was like, that is so wild. You know? That is wild, actually. Yeah. There's like a jungle. You have no map.

Nobody hands you directions and goes, take a left turn, then use this hashtag, then email this person, then write this blog. No, it's just a freaking wild, wild west. But what's amazing is that if you have a vision about what you want to be able to do, and you just have some vision, even if it's not the ultimate thing,

if you just put your right foot forward and then your left foot and keep walking toward it and don't stop and keep trying things and don't stop. My friend Suzy Moore, she goes, the road to success and failure, it's the same road. One's just longer. It's like, how many times you fall on your feet?

You don't care. Things work out that I'm doing, even though there's a ton of things, like I had a show at one point that I worked on for two years with Henson and it was all mindfulness. That's right. We went to every network, everyone said no. So there's been lots of things that didn't work,

but it's also timing too, what's gonna say? There is timing. There is like, Malcolm God will talk about that. There's like right place, right time, but then like being prepared when you're in the right place or right time. Right. But there is this idea that I do think is like,

even when things don't work out, I think the reason why a bunch of things do, it goes back to just like unbridled enthusiasm. Everyone wants to be around that. And that comes from knowing that you're freaking enough even when you feel like you're imperfect, because everyone is, so you go join the party, and being vulnerable. Nothing good has ever happened in the history of humanity without someone being vulnerable. And vulnerability could,. And vulnerability, it doesn't have to be like telling everybody your sadness. It could be sometimes just wanting something

or starting a podcast or putting yourself out there. That's being vulnerable, right? That's like taking a chance. Like people love to sit in the back and hate on people like you and me. Absolutely. Why don't you come on over here and do it? Yeah.

Like, do you know what I mean? Like, I love it when people like comment here that it's like people like Harry, Gary Vaynerchuk apart is like, damn it apart. Okay, first of all, you're not paying a tax to him. It's not like part of your mind.

Like, so let him, you can like, you can turn it off. Why, I hate. You know, I agree. And second of all, that takes tremendous vulnerability for him to put himself out there. And do you remember how he started

with his little folding table? He's like, this is Gary Vaynerchuk. I'm selling wine. He was like, you know, wine, I was a wine guy. I started on a YouTube show. Like, he didn't have a good haircut. He didn't have a good clothes. He didn't know what to say.

And that takes vulnerability. That takes vulnerability. So I do think that a people can really get that. And they can be vulnerable and they can have that enthusiasm come out of you and know that you're enough You wouldn't believe what you can create. I absolutely agree with that and I think but I I do agree but I always hesitate because I feel part of it has to be You have to have the internal

Desire and have the internal desire and tenacity to want to do it something. And that's where I always struggle. I hate saying yes, yes, Kathy, you're right, or anybody, because I feel like you do need to have that go-getum kind of like, like, stop it, nothing attitude. And I don't think you need to be born with it, but I do think you have to curate it. And I think that, to be bored with it, but I do think you have to curate it. And I think it would be a disservice,

and not real if I would just be like, yeah, you know right, you just have to have enthusiasm, and you have passion. And you do have to push. You're really good at knowing how to, and there's a fine balance between being assertive, and also just being someone someone like being around.

Like, you know, you don't want to be like in people's face in that kind of way. And knowing. And knowing. There's something to that, but you're right. I do feel like people think that they will be more productive if they just had more hours, or if they, you know, had a little more time, or I think that you're right. I think that productivity comes from that like state of mind where you're ready to rip it open. So I think you have to figure out what's going to push your

buttons. Like for you, I think you're naturally a little bit like that. And then also you're working out. And that's really good for your mind and really good for endorphins. So you guys should get on Jen's program. That could be one thing that helps you. I think because a lot of times if I pay a roll, and athletes, they tend to start to cultivate that in themselves. And what else? It's like what else, just like we have an iPhone, and everyone knows where your battery percentage is, right? Like, and you know if you're at 17%,

once you're at 9%, your body is literally, you start to actually feel fatigued. You're like, I gotta get to a chart. Everyone feels that anxiety, so. We know that about our phones, but we need to know that about ourselves. And I think that, just like you said before, where you said most of the people you've had on have a meditation practice. I think that most people who are successful and high achievers, they have a consistent practice in their life to get themself into that state. And if you have that state, now you can, like, dive in and get stuff done.

And so it's a matter of figuring out just like your iPhone needs that juice, how are you going to plug in? And instead of just hoping you're going to have that state, kind of proactively knowing like, you're probably not, because something stressful will happen, you haven't been sitting on a mountain meditating for 17 hours a day, so you need to proactively plan to make that a habit. Absolutely, and I think that that's part of it, you're right.

You said that perfectly, because I do think, and that's why I think people should construct their lives, like I have, to like create habits and rituals that kind of like help should construct their lives like I have to like create habits and rituals that kind of like help them with their pitfalls in life right because like if you know you have certain places that you kind of are like flailing or failing with create an environment where you're not going to fail because you can't you can't rely only on willpower or motivation I don't think because those wane after a while. 100%. So create like a path that you can succeed, you know, and if you, like I said, and that's a really kind of digging deep in knowing yourself and knowing what you're good at, what

you're bad at, and like kind of like making, kind of like making it work within that, you know, like, that's what I think. So say, don't keep your day job is for, don't keep your day job. You'll only person who says it correctly. Everyone says it the other way. Yeah, don't keep your day job you'll only person who says it correctly everyone says it the other way yeah don't keep your day job do your life's work you can find it on iTunes or Spotify or Stitcher or whatever and then you can DM me on Instagram I actually I'm a freak like I literally read and

respond to every message what's your candle oh it's just at Cathy Heller Cathy dot heller and then you can find me on Facebook group. We have a really supportive group there. It's really lovely how people go on there. And I'm like, this is what I've always wanted to do and we haven't had any issues with like trolls. Everyone's just like, I'm so proud of you. Like there's a really supportive community

where I encourage, you know, a lot of Facebook to like, don't promote yourself. I'm like, please, talk about what you wanna do here. And then people come on and like, I've made this, you know, piece of pottery, or I'm opening up a donut shop, or it's just really lovely, everyone's amazing. And that's why that second podcast you're doing

should be more than just a second podcast. Am I doing a second podcast? You said the second podcast a week where you're getting people who are users are from the soners. At second episode. Yeah, like what they, how they've like taken information that they've learned from your podcast, from your guests,

and then implemented it and applied it to their own life and now have success. I think that, to me, is a big thing, and that should be exploited more and bigger, and do something with it, you know, what I'm saying, wink, wink, you know, and talk it about. Cool.

All right, thank you. I love you. So fun. Say bye. Hi everybody. Hope you enjoyed this episode. I'm Heather Monahan, host of Creating Confidence, a part of the YAP Media Network, the number one business and self-improvement podcast network. Okay, so I want to tell you a little bit about my show.

We are all about elevating your confidence to its highest level ever and taking your business right there with you. Don't believe me, I'm gonna go ahead and share some of the reviews of the show so you can believe my listeners. I have been a longtime fan of Heather's no matter what phase of life I find myself in, Heather seems to always have the perfect gems of wisdom

that not only inspire, but motivate me into action. Her experience and personality are unmatched, and I love her go-getter attitude. This show has become a staple in my life. I recommend it to anyone looking to elevate their confidence and reach that next level. Thank you! I recently got to hear Heather at a live podcast taping

with her and Tracy Hayes, and I immediately subscribe to this podcast. It has not disappointed, and I cannot wait to listen to as many as I can, as quick as I can. Thank you Heather for helping us build confidence and bring so much value to the space. If you are looking to up your confidence level,

click creating confidence now. Text us to receive up to five automated marketing texts to your number. Consent to receive marketing texts not required. Message and data rates may apply. You want to lose weight and get in shape, but every time you try, it only lasts a couple weeks. Well, look, it's not your fault

because it's super hard. I'm Carl, the founder of Body. That's Body with an eye, and here's a secret. Most fitness and diet programs don't work long-term because they aren't designed to fit into your lifelong term. That's why I created the world's first health esteem app, and I want you to text me to try it free for 14 days. Body shows you how to enjoy your life

while you get healthy and lose weight. Sound too good to be true? Don't say that to our millions of happy members. The next 500 people to text me the word health to 30, 30, 30 can try body for free for two weeks or get 50% off a paid membership. Text health to 30, 30, 30. It's gonna work, but first you need to be one of the next 500 people to text health to

30, 30, 30.