Handsome - Penn Jillette asks about the placebo effect

Episode Date: January 14, 2025

The magical Penn Jillette of Penn & Teller asks a question that has the Handsome hosts feeling *much* better all of a sudden! Plus primal screams, red tents, and more!Handsome is hosted by Tig Notaro, Mae Martin, and Fortune FeimsterFollow us on social media @handsomepodMerch at handsomepod.comWatch Handsome on YouTubeThis is a Headgum podcast. Follow Headgum on Twitter, Instagram, and Tiktok. Advertise on Handsome via Gumball.fm.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Cheers. Welcome to the handsome pod. I'm Mae Martin, one of your handsome hosts. I'm joined as always by my handsome co-hosts. Tig Notaro. Oh, it finally happened. Tig Notaro. Fortune Feimster. We're together again, you guys. We sure are, you guys.

Tate, you're hard to read at the best of times. And this, if you go to YouTube, this addition to your appearance today just adds to the mystique and the intrigue because you really can't tell what you're feeling. You can't tell what I'm feeling in general, are you saying? It looks like you're solving crimes. I know, but I'm talking about in a general sense, not today on the podcast, but in a general sense. You can't tell what I'm feeling ever. No, I can tell what you're feeling,

but you have occasionally a deadpan kind of, I don't know, something about the mustache just takes it to another level. You just blew it for everybody. Everybody now knows I have a mustache. I have to say, I had a different mustache on earlier and then when I ripped that off, I ripped my actual TIG mustache off of my upper lip.

Oh my God. Yeah, I was like, ow. Ow-wee. Ow-we my God. Yeah, I was like, ow. Ewe. Ewe. That could be a good business, like wax your mustache with another mustache. With a mustache, yeah. Mustache on mustache.

I have hair here, but it's blonde, so you can't see it. Okay, somebody's bragging. I really thought I would start, because I'm on testosterone, I thought I would start growing something, but I haven't. Do you want to?

You know what's weird? No, I don't want to have facial hair, but I want to shave. I want it to grow so I can shave it because I want the experience of looking in the mirror and shaving. You know what I mean? Like Macaulay Culkin in Home Alone. You could do that though. You don't have to wait for hair to show up.

You can just shave your face. Yeah, but I'll know that it's a charade. Charade? You don't have to wait for hair to show up. You can just shave your face. Yeah, but I'll know that it's a charade. Mm-hmm. Charade? Charade. My apartment here in Toronto faces windows in another building and it's really not far at all.

If you wanna see. Yeah, we'd love to. Oh, wow, we can right in there. Yeah, we'd love to. See? Oh, wow, yeah. We can ride in there. Yeah, so people are just coming and going and I have different mustaches on. And y'all are looking at each other. Mm-hmm, yeah. When I was in New York, I was on a very tall floor

and I looked out to see the beautiful water that was in front of me and to the left was another tall building. And a guy got out of his, and this had happened to when Jackson and I were together before and it happened again, a guy got out of his bathtub, full wiener. Really?

Wait, what? Full wiener. Okay, and what did he look? But what do you mean? Like he, you know, you can see in other people's apartments. What do you mean what he means? you know, you can see in other people's apartments. What do you mean what do you mean? In New York. Yeah.

And this guy had just his... For you? No, not for me. No. Okay. And I don't know why I said bathtub. He got out of it. It was a shower. He got out of a shower and he didn't have any curtains or they weren't closed.

I think he wanted to be seen, sounds like. And he just was, and curtains or they weren't closed. I think he wanted to be seen. And he just was, and he went up to the window. Yeah, that checks out. Yeah, it was for you. It was for you. No, he didn't know I was on the 14th floor looking at his. He knew it. He could feel it.

And is that the only time you've seen one aside from the hot flute? Well, ironically enough, when I was in New York another time that happened. A guy. I'm staying at the wrong hotels. Full wiener. You know?

You would enjoy seeing that? Of course. What are you talking about? Just a wiener in the wild. Well, yeah, through the safety of the window across the street. Yeah, I like the idea of kind of seeing what people are up to. It's just this all floppy and...

That's what they are. Weird. I mean, I've heard. Guys, I have a bit of a mystery going on and I kind of... Teg will solve it. I don't know if this company is sure... Look at me with my musket holed over there. Yeah, yeah. I don't know if this company is surelocking holes over there.

I don't know if this is a company that sponsors our podcast and if it is, I kind of don't want to know because then it's not a mystery at all. But I've received a box to my Airbnb and it's a box of baked goods, I want to say. And they're like, some of them are raw, they need to to be baked I'll show you some of what we're talking about. So we got croissants that need to go in the oven Wait, is this wild grain? Cuz they're um, they truly are amazing. Yes. This is wild grain. Wait, but are they Sponsors, oh no, and they have I had a secret admirer No, they're sponsors They have some of the best chocolate chip cookies, I'm telling you, you'll ever have.

Jack's orders, she'll order a thing of stuff just to get the cookies. Yeah, yeah. Well, I truly was like, maybe it's my ex. It's great. Sending me both goods. You freeze the- Sending you raw croissants.

You gotta put the bread in the freezer. But then when you want bread, it's there and it's really good. I'm not just saying this because they're our sponsors. But I was so pumped for it. We should wait for the commercials. This would be such an elaborate ad for them. They're really tasty. I just love that you thought someone's sending you a bunch of bread and croissants.

It was like the beginning of some mystery. Do you guys want to go into how much you love Allstate Insurance? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Guys. I love Allstate. They're good. They're good. Would that have made a difference if someone had sent you those as a gift?

Dough? Frozen dough? I'd love to be sent any gift. I feel like I send a lot of gifts. That's like my love language. Yeah, like I like to send a gift and I don't, the only thing that shows up in my door is like weird stuff I ordered on Amazon overnight. Frozen dough.

And then our sponsors it turns out, yeah, yeah. Did you say a vibrator Fortune Marie? What, who said that? Fortune Marie, do not talk about anything vibrating. I'm sorry. Except the friendship between the three of us. Yeah, which is vibrating on a high level, a high frequency.

Yeah, it is. Thanks to Tig, I treaded water again this morning. You did. Two days in a row now. Nice. My goodness, kid. How was it? I was out of town for like three weeks, so it's not like I purposely wasn't doing it. I just was out of town, and now I'm back.

And the first day I was back, I didn't, but the next two days, I have. That's amazing. Love it. And you know what? I think I told you this May, I was at the Rufus Wainwright concert and met the people that ran the theater and they said they were friends with your parents.

Oh yes, yeah. And the woman said she now treads water. Really? Look at you, Tic. Getting everybody to trend water. She said, at you, Tig. You're never gonna be treading water. She said, I'm in with the big Hollywood fad. I was like, this is not Hollywood fad. This is not Tig activity that we've caught on to.

This is like a lesbian or LGBTQ. I don't know what's going on. It's a handsome fad, but I don't think it's taken over Hollywood. It should because it's, you know, I know you listen to podcasts when you do it, but it's meditative still. It's like, it's very meditative. Yeah.

And it moves your whole body. You're working all your muscles and I do it silently and, you know, think myself into corners and anyway. I do it silently and think myself into corners. I do need it for the meditation, because I don't think I have the patience to just sit and meditate in silence. For some reason, I do need to be doing something, but I have a very active brain

in that it gets a little OCD sometimes, where I take something and it runs in my head and I can't get it to stop. And I like fixate on things. And especially when my special came out, I start fixating on things like, what did I do this right? What was, does the color right? And I would have to make myself get into the pool.

And like as I'm treading water, it'd be like, let go, let go. Just like be present. Everything's good. And it really does help with my brain too. Yeah. I, 1 million percent, man, my brain feels so good. My whole body feels so loose. Do you get that feeling of like, you're just, I don't know.

I feel so good. Anyway, it was just so fun that she said that she's treading water now. That's cool. Yeah. Do you guys have an act of like a brain that fixates or? I don't know if that was a comic thing or? Yes, I got a brain that fixates.

Of course, yeah. Are you really asking me this? I do. And then I find like... I do too. Yeah. Certain things. I mean, we've talked before about like, I'm not sure about if meditation works for me, but doing an activity while like walking meditation maybe. But there are things that I do that calm me down like naming all the countries of the world. I like to do that.

You're like Finn. Does he name the countries? Yeah, he knows the countries. He knows the US capitals. Yeah, I'm working on the capitals. I should send you a video of him. He loves like Max and Finn watch Jeopardy and those kind of games. Okay, we need to hang out with, I think we'd really get along, me and them, of him. He loves like Max and Finn watch Jeopardy and those kind of games. Okay. We need to hang out with, I think we'd really get along, me and them, because we could just name the countries.

He knows all of the flags of the world. Yeah, that's incredible. All of the flags. That's not easy. I think that's my next challenge. That's an easy task. I will send you that video. I'm getting competitive with an eight-year-old now.

But that soothes you is naming all of the countries of the world? I will send you that video. I'm getting competitive with an eight-year-old now. But that soothes you is naming all of the countries of the world? Yeah. Journaling as well. If I force myself before bed to write, just stream a Conscious, a couple of pages, and in the morning about what I'm stressed about, instead of just going on my phone. Yeah, that's helpful. Sometimes for me, it's just music. It's just like at our office, we have a record player and there have been times when I've gone over there and it's like, not just plug in your headphones, listen to music, there's something so relaxing and in the moment for me to put on a record and listen on a record

and listen to a record. And then it ends, you get up and I don't know, it's a heightened level of appreciation, I think, for it and flipping the record and then lying on the couch and listening to it and not looking at anything, just staring out the window or the ceiling. Oh man. Yeah, that I think puts me in a good place,

but I mean, I don't have that kind of time to always be lying on a couch in my office flipping records, but man, it feels really good. I got like the test press of my vinyl record for my album. It feels crazy. I still don't understand how you can take a sound from the air and put it onto plastic. I think about that all the time and I can't stand it. How does it happen? I think like, oh, I'm hearing the atmosphere of Abbey Road and all that, like, and because

it doesn't make any sense. And then they transfer to another one. And then everyone's got them. And then then they press play it on a radio station. Yeah. How does this sound in photographs? Oh, I mean, he started. Don't get me started. I can't stand it.

Me neither. I can't stand it. How did that happen? But there's something particularly weird about a vinyl because it feels so rudimentary almost, like we're just taking a very sharp little point and then we're spinning it on the thing. And then all of a sudden I'm in Abbey Road and I'm hearing something from the 70s, it's so insane.

But I don't have a vinyl player so I can't listen to my own album. Well you gotta get one. Well it would have been from the 60s. Yes, true, yeah. They're not expensive. Yeah, I know, been from the 60s. Yes, true. Yeah. They're not expensive. Yeah, I know. They've got them at like Urban Outfitters. Yeah, Urban Outfitters.

You know what is so funny? Like in the 80s and 70s, when you got a record player, it was so cool to have one that stacked up high and the speakers were huge. Yeah. And like took up so much space. Huge speakers. Yeah. And now everyone. And cords.

Yeah. And now it's like the size of your phone. I mean, it's your phone. Yeah. When you do the Kelly Clarkson show, they always give you a record and it's a different one every time. And I've done her show 10 times now, so I've gotten 10 different records. Really?

And yeah. What are the records? Dolly Parton was one and this latest one was Chapel Rowan. And I was traveling for like two and a half weeks and I got the record at the beginning of those travels. So for two and a half weeks, I'm like, I really want this vinyl. I want to listen to Chappell's record on the vinyl.

And so I was like having to maneuver this record for almost three weeks to not break it. Even though I could buy another one, I'm just like, don't break this record. Well, and yet there are times in life where it's like, you want to break the record. You know what I'm saying? You know?

You know what I mean? You know what I mean? You're a record breaker. You know what I mean? You know what I mean? Some people just know they can save hundreds on car insurance by checking Allstate First. Like you know to check and make sure you got your popcorn exactly how you like it before you hit play on a new movie you've been wanting to watch.

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No, no. It's a big thing. I've heard of that, like getting out aggression, right? Yeah, I mean, it feels crazy to say when it's like people are starving in the world, but yeah, you go and they give you a bat and you can break old TVs and like plates and things, and you might get your rage out. I think I would benefit. And you have not gone? I've never gone. They're in LA. They're in, yeah, it's a big thing.

And they blast music. you get to pick your music and then you wear goggles and you just, can you guys tell by looking at me that I have pent up rage or no? I would not know that, no. Pent up rage, let me see. I definitely think that you're going through a thing of like just, you know, coming out on the other end

of some life things, but I would not, rage would not be the thing I would think seeing you. Well, this is the thing. I can't even access it. It's so deep, but I know it's there, just about the world. Really? I would say if I really went in on your, you know.

Psychology. Well, yeah, I mean, there's some nerves and anxiety maybe around things in life and maybe that could be tied to not sharing how you really feel about things or being direct about something. And then if you're not,

then you're probably holding some rage. So that kind of tracks and makes sense. Two episodes in a row, you have. That's pretty interesting. So apt because it's like my throat chakras blocks. Like I do, I don't say what I feel a lot. And I have, cause I want everyone to like me. So, but I'm pissed.

But I think, but I'm pissed. But I think some of it is that you wanna tell people what they wanna hear, knowing that you're not gonna be able to follow up on that. And then it creates drama for you that's unnecessary. You know what I mean? But if you just said from the get go, I don't think I can do that, or I can't. You know what I mean? Like if you just said from the get go, I don't think I can do that or I don't, I can't, you know what I mean?

Like you're telling people what they wanna hear cause you want them to, that people please are in you. Maybe. And then you end up letting that person down cause they, because you're like, oh, they wanted that from me, but I can't give it to them. And now they're upset with me. And then it leads to like, like fresh, like your frustration.

And then how do you respond if somebody, you know, says yes, then lets you down? Like, do you handle that okay? Yeah, yeah. Like in a reverse. Yeah, I'm all right with that. I think it's a, I think there's a big like, part of it's like an ADHD thing, I think,

like of just time management and overwhelm and freeze, but I don't know. I don't know. It's got to be. It's really interesting to, and I know we've talked about this before, but conversations that are so hard. And I just always think I'm going to be alive conversations that are so hard.

And I just always think like, I'm going to be alive after this conversation. I'm gonna be alive after this email. And it really does, as hard as that moment is, it's usually a short hard. Yeah. Well, I'm sure, it's not like with everyone in my life, I'm avoiding saying what I really feel, but there's probably like some foundational things

on it, like the foundation's a little rocky, cause there's stuff that I should, I wanna yell in the desert at the moon and the stars and the rocks. And then if I got that out- You should. Yeah, I actually did. I went to the Joshua tree like a year ago with some friends and I was like, I want to do a primal scream.

And I was with my friend Charlotte who's British and she was really worried that like it was nighttime, there was no one around and we were in the middle of the national park and she was like, um, before we do the scream, I just have to do something. And then she goes, um, hello, if anyone can hear us, we're not in any danger, we're just doing a primal scream. And it like really, it took the fun out of it a little bit. That's hilarious.

It was really- Charlotte from Feel Good? Yeah, it was very adorable. Yeah, yeah. That's so, you know what I find really interesting that I'm really in tune with, and I don't even know if I'm right or wrong, but I am fascinated by people that have nervous laughs.

Not that I'm like, you know, solving a big mystery here, but I feel like that's a lot of rage or- Oh, oh really? Yeah, interesting. Like when people are like, like that kind of thing, like it feels like if it keeps going, um, it'll become, it's the snowball is, yeah, it's like, I'm, I'm always interested when people laugh at moments really hard, there's nothing funny happening or, you know, barge in with that kind of energy.

And I'm always like, just kind of quietly examining that, thinking what is that really uncomfortable, nervous laughter that is barging into this conversation out of their mouth. They're clearly uncomfortable. And it's just, it's really fascinating. And if our listeners relate to that, please write in and let us know because I'm, well, because people might be like, oh my gosh, I do that.

And I don't know why I do it or I do it. And the reason I do it is because this or that. I just find it so fascinating. Yeah. I think we could all benefit from opening our mouths a bit more and saying, letting things out, right? I mean, a lot of this stems from just pent up stuff. Yeah.

Stephanie emailed me this morning about something. She was not happy with. Really? Yeah. And were you receptive? I was. I was like, you know, I didn't do it intentionally, but I totally saw what she was saying and apologized. It was really interesting to wake up in a different city from her and have a very big

email. Yeah, very big, but it was like an email. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that you hadn't been aware that she was stewing on something. I don't know that she was stewing on, it wasn't that she was stewing on something, it was just that she came across something I had said.

And there was some misrepresentation and whatever. But when I opened the email, I thought, Oh, what is, I was, it was, I was so, like, what is that? Cause I could tell. That would be jarring for sure. It was jarring, but it was also more fascinating because I don't feel like I'm hiding anything from her. I don't feel like I'm hiding anything from her.

Like in, you know, like I don't have massive droves of secrets. And so, and I was more of like, oh, this is, oh no. And also, oh my gosh, this is so interesting. What is, what did I do? Like I was so interested. And then, and then did I do? Like I, I was so interested. And then, and then when I read it, I was like, Oh yeah, I did say that. And it wasn't, you know, totally, totally true. Right, right, right. Without getting into details, but I did it for comedy. Yeah, yeah.

Comedy, yeah. It basically was her story. Right, gotcha. And I kind of blurred it in a way. Right. And I was like, oh yeah, I see that, and I'm sorry, and I won't do that again. Yeah. Or if I think that story is great, I'll run it by you, you know?

But I was just like, oh, it's our world and here's this story. I bet all three of us have gotten into trouble for that before. I feel like that's such a, so part of what we do, which doesn't excuse it, but it's like, that's bound to happen. Sometimes Jack's like, what are you talking about with your help me on? Yeah, or sometimes I think something's my, like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, yeah, and reading that email, I was like, she's totally right, and she is right to feel that way, and I, and it did cross my mind where I was like, oh, should I, and then I was like, eh, it's, nah, it's fine. Yeah, yeah. And then it wasn't, and I was like, oh, should I? And then I was like, it's not, it's fine. And then it wasn't and she's right. You know, in ancient Rome, didn't they used to do a thing

that was like once a month or something, they would have a night that was like, Bacchic chaos of just orgiastic crazy, but not sex. It was just like, you could get all your primal drives out and people would just get drunk and they'd be screaming. They'd all wear masks and run around and you'd just get it out of your system. And I think maybe we need that.

Like Freud said, society's coercion and suppression of drives. And I really, I feel like we all are living in this sort of claustrophobia. And if we just had not like the purge, like we need to have one night where we go out and, you know, hurt people, but just like one night a month where we just go to the red tent.

What's the red tent? Get our feelings out. I talked about it a long time ago. Isn't that like period stuff? Yeah. Oh, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But it was just being an excuse to just hang out and not do anything and just chat about your feelings.

Girl, meet me in the red tent. I feel like people in the red tent are not chill chatting though. Really? In my fantasy we are eating grapes, chatting about our feelings. I'm picturing everyone, you know, emotional. Yeah.

Emotional and cramping. Yeah. Or a sauna, let's modernize it. Let's all go to a sauna. Yes, girl, me and you in the sauna, let's chat. Come on, have a handsome sauna, just let sweat it all out. We can talk, we have some time where it's silent and then we can talk about things, get our feelings out.

My worst thing in a sauna, if you ever, when you're in a sauna and then someone comes in and without even being in the sauna for more than a second, they pour a bunch of water on it and makes it three times hotter and it's like, just than a second, they pour a bunch of water on it and makes it three times hotter. And it's like, just wait a second, let your body adjust, because we've all been doing the water.

It's hot in here. Yeah. Just had to get that off my chest. See, I'm saying how I feel. I'm being honest. Yeah, get it out, May. I fucking hate that when people in the sauna make it hot without checking with you, bro.

May, you know what would be really fun for you to do? Tell me. Is write an entire hour where you rage. Yeah. You just let loose and you pace back and forth and it can be, it's authentic and it's real, but it's also experimental art. See, this is the thing because people often,

in stuff that's like written about me, it's like people commend the fact that I'm so, I'm like a palatable queer person that's not like a, not actually aggressive or challenging that, you know what I mean? Like it's accessible. Like fortune. Yeah. Like, well, maybe we, maybe we both have that like- Palatable. Like, well, maybe we both have that like, but. Palatable. Yeah, maybe I should do an hour where I'm just like,

fuck it, I'm soapboxing, I'm pissed. And that's the title. Fuck it, I'm soapboxing, I'm pissed. Yeah, yeah, on Netflix. Well, this all goes back to the bear, let's not pretend it doesn't. It's the kept bear. And the aliens.

It's the wrestling bear that doesn't know its own strength and needs to crush the mulleted goons that are tormenting it. Yeah, it's good to get stuff out. I'll think I'm fine and handling everything and then all of a sudden I'll just start crying in an elevator. Yeah.

Like specifically in a chair. Well, except that you are scared of heights, right? Yeah. I just saw Wiener and I gotta leave my hotel room and just now I'm crying in the elevator. I have just randomly started crying in elevators. Can you imagine someone like getting on and being like, oh, okay.

I guess she's not crushing it today. That's right. Or on an airplane. Sometimes I just start bawling on an airplane. Oh, that's, yeah. I did that recently. I thought about an old painful situation in my life. And I had a boohoo on a flight,

just like something I hadn't thought about in so long. And I connected with it again. And I was like, God, that was hard on me. Oh man. That was really a heavy load. Airplanes do bring out that emotion. You get that perspective, looking at things from a distance. From a distance.

Don't get me started. Oh, I love Bette Midler. The Divine Miss M. Come on. Don't you think there was a period in movies in the 90s where there were like tons of scenes that took place in elevators with about five people all facing forward, strangers, and then something awkward would happen. I feel like that used to happen in movies in every comedy. Okay, are you guys familiar with my dear old pal,

Henry Phillips, the comedian? No, I don't think I am actually. I probably, let me Google. Do yourselves a favor. This is a silly, silly man. Okay. He made two movies. One is called Punching the Clown and one is called Punching Henry. I haven't seen Henry. You have? Uh-huh.

Oh my gosh. I haven't seen these movies though. I can't remember. I think it's the one I'm in. Stephanie and I are in one. I think it's punching Henry. We're in that movie. And he has, he stumbles through the most awkward things in life all the time in punching Henry. He's, he's doing a show. This has happened in real life. And then it's also in the movie.

A guy shows up to a show and is like, man, I am your biggest fan. I can't believe it. He slams his head down and hits a parking meter. The guy had traveled so far to see Henry and then he was off to the emergency room. Oh my gosh. Yeah. And then, but anyway, back to elevators, Henry got out of an elevator once and he turned left, but left was just a wall, but he was too embarrassed because the doors were still open. He was too embarrassed to turn back and turn right and go down the hall.

So he just held himself up against the wall. But he didn't realize there were mirrors that were showing everyone in the elevator that he was just up against the wall. Anyway. Oh, that's great. This time of year, I love to get cozy. That means slippers around the house, hot tea, a little fire in the fireplace.

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and then he has this show called Henry's Kitchen. He's just a silly, dry guy. I love him so much. That's fun. Anyway. Well, we should get to our question, right? Yes, yes. Absolutely.

Today's questioner is a magician, actor, musician, TV host and writer, best known as the, well, pretty much the vocal half of the iconic magic duo, Pin and Teller. Pinjolet is asking today's question. Hello, my handsome friends. This is Penn. Penn Jillette. I work with the comedy magic team in Las Vegas, Penn and Teller at the conveniently named Penn and Teller Theater. I got a question for you. Scientists have shown that placebos work

even when the subject knows it's a placebo, which blows my mind completely. I used to think the whole idea behind placebos was you didn't know they were nothing and that's why they worked. But you can tell people, apparently, I don't know how they did these tests, I don't know what the control group would be,

but you can tell people, this is a pill that will do nothing. This is a placebo. Give them a sugar pill and say, I'm giving it to you for your arthritis or whatever the problem is. And they actually see an improvement even though they've been told it's a placebo. And this of course works in a lighter way, in a silly way in magic. You know the magic wand is just a stick. You know it does nothing.

And yet you feel that there's a magical cause to the trickery you're seeing. You always have to have a magical cause for the trickery no matter how silly. It seems similar to me, although on a lighter level. And I just wondered what you have in your life that you know is bullshit, that you know is not true. And yet you believe in it and it helps you. So what's your placebo that you know is a placebo? Hmm. Interesting.

I just saw them perform. We did a show together. Oh, cool. And it is really cool. I don't think about magic tricks very often and then when I see them, I'm like, dang, that was cool. I mean, magic is magic. Yeah, it is wild.

I remember going to some show at the, what is it, the Magic Castle in LA. And, how do they do it? Thank you for saying that in an Italian accent. Well, they look at me, hey, meatball. But I, I don't, some magician was saying what was in this woman's purse.

Yeah, that's wild. Yeah, I was like, I don't. What do you mean, it was just like, was some of it unexpected stuff? It wasn't just like your wallet, your. Yes, it was, I was like, I don't, I don't get it. I'm angry at everybody now. I don't know what's happening.

Yeah, it's fascinating. Yeah, and like Penn's very cerebral, as you can see. So a lot of his stuff is like talking out these big things and you're like, how does he keep up with all that? Yeah. Well, any of the things that I'm thinking of and answer this question, I'm like, I don't really 100% know that they don't work

or if there are placebos, they're working anyway. So like crystals or like, well, spells, I did quite a few spells. Now you yourself do the spells or someone does them for you? Well, things like on a full moon or whatever, I'll write down stuff and bury it, weird shit that I read about, just for fun. Yeah.

Like a little squirrel in the yard. Yeah, like a little squirrel. And they're out there burying secrets. Dirt under my nails. Yeah. Oh my God, if someone dug up my yard and found all my secrets. All your secrets are out in your yard. Yeah, I don't know,

because that's the thing about a placebo effect. It's that it's mentally making you feel better. And if you mentally feel better, then it can have effects on you physically. So it does in turn work. Yeah. Do you have any superstitions that you kind of know it's bogus, but just in case you're doing it? I'm not very superstitious.

Like would you walk under a ladder? Easily. I didn't even know that was a thing. What is that? What do you mean? You're not supposed to walk under a ladder. Two against one. So you know, I know.

You do know this or you don't know this? I do, I do my friend. What is it? If you walk under a ladder, it's bad luck. I don't know why. Like on the inner part of it, you mean? Yeah. Oh, interesting.

Like between it and the wall, you know? You're not supposed to. We're all just coming across ladders, left and right. No, well that's why it's kind of stressful when you do, because you're like, oh, better not walk underneath that. Better not do that. I have no idea if I've ever even done that.

Like I'm sure it's bullshit, but I still wouldn't do it. I bet you have, because you didn't know it was bad news. So you're like, oh, Mr Mr. Magoo right underneath the ladder. Isn't it bad luck to like throw away a penny or something? I didn't know about that. No, it's good luck to throw a penny in a fountain. But I thought if you threw it away, it's bad luck.

Oh really? Well you're just throwing money away and that can't be great luck. Yeah. Like you got that kind of cash fortune that you can just throw a penny in the trash? Do you put it in the trash or in recycling? I don't think I'm throwing away.

I think I knew that it was bad luck, so I didn't. Do you have a piggy bank? No, Jax puts coins in a thing, I think, or she used to. Coins in a thing. Coins in a thing, that would be a piggy bank. Everybody used to keep their change and then you could get, your parents would get from the bank the rolls, right? And you'd put all the pennies in the roll

or all your nickels in the rolls and count it up. You exchange it for bills. Do you believe black cats are bad luck? No. No, I don't actually. Like I went to see my house that I bought and a gray cat showed up. And then so I Googled the significance of gray cats

and it was like independence. Oh, yeah. Are you feeling independent? No. Yeah, no, I guess I am. Everything still on track with that? Yeah, man. Yeah, I got it. You got it. It's done.

It's, yeah, I've got repairs to do, like foundational repairs and things like that, but yeah. That is, we didn't follow up to find out if you got the structural information and everything was like, it's gonna, like that's good, other than a few repairs? Well, here's the thing, it's good. Like it's stable and secure, but they are next year

gonna be repairing the cliff edge that the house is perched on. And it's gonna be unbelievably loud for one year, but it's worth it. So you're in. I'm in, I'm in and I'm scared. Why? Of sliding down the hill?

I guess I'm just. I would be scared of that too. Yeah, I'm scared of sliding down the hill. Scared of robbers and spiders. Robbers and spiders. Yeah. Oh my. Well, you know what I can do for you that I did to Max and Finn, because they were really scared for a while about bad guys.

So I took them into our neighborhood and showed them the crime stopper sign, whatever that is. Yeah. And I was like, you see this sign? We don't allow bad guys in our neighborhood. So there is nothing to be afraid of. And they- Were they into it?

Yes. They believe, in fact, in the back seat, I heard Finn telling Max when he was scared about something. He was like, it's fine Max. He was like, bad guys aren't allowed in our neighborhood. Yeah, there are no bad guys in our neighborhood. Can't believe that worked. Nice.

Oh my gosh. It worked. Nice. Oh my gosh. It worked. Our alarm went off in the middle of the night when Stephanie was by herself. Oh, that's scary. Yeah. And she thought they slept through it. And in the morning she was like, you guys, the alarm went off on the house. And they're like, oh, we know, we heard it. And when she told me that, I was like, that's how safe they feel. They just thought it was like, and it was like, you know, a mistake. But the alarm got tripped. But they didn't have a care in the world. They weren't even slightly scared because they know there's no bad guys in their neighborhood. That's great. Yeah. We had our alarm go off one morning.

It was like crazy windy and I didn't realize I hadn't like latched the back door properly. And it the wind was so hard that it blew it open. Oh, scary. And our alarm went off. So we like jolted out of bed and and Jax just starts charging down. I'm like, no, of course. you gotta look at the camera. You gotta look at the camera and see if someone's downstairs. She's just bolting down there.

She's just knocked them out. I'm just like, oh my God, no. I'm like, hide in the room, lock the door. Yeah, Biggie, start crying. Biggie and I are in the bedroom with the door locked. She's just running downstairs. Taking care of business. She has no fear.

I swear to God, it's crazy. That is amazing. It absolutely is. Of course, of course. So she's my protector. I love her. Yeah, that's great. Jax is my placebo.

If someone, if you heard a scary sound in the night, Tig, would you or Stephanie go check it out? Well. Tig's in her nightgown. Yeah, I'm in my nightgown, flowing in the wind. But no, it's so funny when we have visitors staying with us and we don't even have our alarm set, it's just the ding of the door opening and closing.

Stephanie will jump out of bed like, oh, oh God, oh God. And she'll like kind of make a loop around the room and then get back in bed. That's me. And then Stephanie always imitates me. This is a cartoon version of me. Yeah. Of like just in my underwear going downstairs going, I love my family. That's hilarious.

Yeah. I think we both would hesitantly go down, but also, you know, I was, I, but I asked her, I was like, did you call the police or 911? She was like, well, no, that's what the alarm does. And I was like, I know, but it wouldn't be bad to like give a little extra ring a ding and be on the phone with somebody when an emergency is happening. So I don't know. I don't know how we got onto this, placebo is what you're talking about.

I don't know either. Yeah. Some people think that cold plunging is a placebo. No, that's all proven. Really? Yeah. Because every time I hear things, so many people have different things about like,

no, it has tons of health benefits and other people are like, it does nothing, it wakes you up. Yeah, but you know what? The level that it wakes you up is so stimulating in your brain. It's crazy. Yeah.

It is so crazy. And your dopamine climbs. Yeah. Yeah. For like two and a half hours, your dopamine keeps climbing. It doesn't crash or bottom out. It's, I think it's good. Who are these people saying it has no benefits?

People that are wrong. Sana salesman? Yes. Thank you, May. I don't feel like I have a placebo thing in my life. I mean, and this is like a stretch to try and connect it, but you know, when I was sick in 2012, I was praying and I had never done that before. And I felt like it was going to help me. And it did. I'm here, I lived through it.

But yeah, I don't know. I've done some praying. Yeah. I do that, yeah. Yeah, man. I don't ever pray, but I prayed then and then I never returned to it again once God was like, all right, I'll let you live.

I don't like get on my knees like you do, like you see, you know. In a cartoon? Yeah, if there's like some, I'm going through some hard times, I just like in my car, I'm just like, yeah, I'll talk out loud. Let's hear a little.

I kind of pray to like the God or the, or power power kind of mix of things. Sometimes my grandmother, sometimes I'll talk to my grandma and be like, Nana, help me out. Yeah. Look after me. And she does.

Yeah. And who knows, like, if that's a placebo, if there's something to it, I don't know, but it makes me feel better. Yeah. That's all you need. Totally. Who cares where it comes from?

Yeah. I'm trying to think if there's anything, I don't have any ritual that I can think of. Maybe vitamins, they're like vitamins you just pee them out. I take a bunch of vitamins that I'm sure do nothing. Except make you go to the bathroom. That's true. I eat pad thai, that makes me feel better.

That's not a placebo. That's truly comforting. That's truly my comfort food. Yeah, let's see what what Penn has to say. I am a strict, unpleasantly strict, self-righteous vegan. And I know that big parts of my health improving from veganism are not from veganism. They're from being conscious of my diet or they are completely mental. But when I eat nothing but vegetables, which has been the past nine years, I feel better.

I know that about 25% of that is 100% bullshit, but that placebo helps me get through. Being a strict vegan helps me do all the things in my life that make me a little healthier than I used to be. So that's my answer. It's not as satisfying as yours, I'm sure, even though I haven't heard him yet. Okay. Thank you, handsome people. Love you.

Peace. Did you know that Penn was a vegan? I had no idea. I had no idea. Neither did I. But now I cannot wait to talk to him about it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because he's saying that it's not proven

that that is a fully health beneficial thing. Is that what he means? I think like he's saying that not all of the health benefits can be ascribed to the veganism. Such as eating vegetables. Yeah, like that part of it must be that he's thinking now of himself as a healthy person. So it's like, yeah, yeah.

That's cool. I will say when I drink my green juice, that I'm like, I'm so healthy. No one can touch you. I'm so healthy right now. I have a green liquid in my body. I'm the healthiest I've ever been from this one morning

I drank green juice. Well for you Tig, it did help you a lot because you were going through all that. You've said that you attribute that to helping save your life, right? I do and I'm sure that, well, not just saved my life, but also helped me deal with pain. And I'm sure it's a mix of all of those things

of eating nutrient dense vegetables and fruit, nuts, seeds, all of that kind of stuff, grains. And then having, before I just didn't really think about my health. seeds, all that kind of stuff, grains. Before I just didn't really think about my health. I was just a person floating through the world and just eating whatever I want, doing whatever I want. And now I'm so like, I do not want to be back in that place again. And so whatever it is that's happening,

and look, obviously I could kill over and die tomorrow, but right now My the pain management is just superb. I feel so much better and I can't say enough about it, you know But I also people get very weird around me where they're like, oh I can't eat this in front of you or I can't do this and it's like This is me. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not I'm not talking about you. I'm not talking about what you're eating wearing doing Yeah, yeah, I'm I'm good. You know on your journey. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. I feel like I know it's in my future Yeah, I did vegetarianism and veganism, but I'm just sort of

waiting to get there. Yeah. I'll just arrive there, unconnected to any of my behavior. I'll just suddenly be like, oh, I'm here now, I'm a vegan. Well, and as I tell everyone that you have to have something that is your North Star that gets you there, whether it's animal cruelty or health or environmental issues, you have to be really, really sold on what your North Star is. Otherwise nothing will work and there's no way I would have maintained any sort of healthy lifestyle if I hadn't fallen so far off of that ledge. And now it's the easiest thing for me to, not the easiest, but I mean, it's just, it's what I do, you know?

Yeah. But it doesn't mean that I have judgment about how anybody else is doing anything. Yeah. Thank goodness. There's some real doozies happening over here with me. Orange chicken. I do love it though. I love it. My baby bear biggie boy, he's my placebo.

If I'm sad or I'm picking him up. That's pure scientific. On my arms and I feel so much better. Biggie is scientific. He's the best, I just stare at him and all that stress goes away. Yeah, and he just stares at you. With his dead eyes.

He's not in here, he was in here, but he was like, get me out of here, I'm tired of all this talking. Yeah. I gotta go play. Well, that was a fun episode. I really enjoyed that. You guys, me too.

You guys. Hey, me too. Hey, three of us all in agreement. There's no two against one. No, it's three for three. Three musketeers. Except Thomas. Thomas is like, I hated that one. Yeah, I hate all of these. Three against one.

He was in a cold plunge. Make sure you go on YouTube and check out TIG's new look. It's a brand new look. So sexy. Thank you, Fortune. And also go to handsomepod.com for all of our lovely merchandise, man. I see it everywhere out in the wild

and it is a real treat. Really a cool treat. Yeah. It was so cool seeing those end of the year Spotify wrap up too, like people were tagging us and they're like top five and stuff. That was really neat seeing people just show us that handsome love.

Thank you for that. Yeah, that was amazing. And please know we're sending the love right back to you and please send the love off to friends and family, your favorite episodes. Let's keep building the community. Follow us on social media, YouTube, wherever you get your podcasts, rate, review us,

all of that stuff. I know we always say it, but that is really what will keep this going. Yeah, we're in Nashville and Austin in April. So don't forget to get your tickets to those shows as well on our website. Yeah. A lot of fun stuff planned. If you haven't seen my special crushing it, it's on Netflix. Please go watch it.

And I'm on tour working out new stuff in Pasadena, Ontario and Oxnard, California new stuff in Pasadena, Ontario, and Oxnard, California coming up in the next month, as well as the Irvine Improv. And then I have a giant new tour starting April 4th. So get your tickets for that. I'm at Largo like once a month and around the town. And then I'm about to go on a mini tour for my music

coming up in a couple months. So keep an eye out for that. That's so fun. Well, until next time, shall we? Keep it handsome. Handsome is hosted by me, May Martin, Tig Notaro and Fortune Feimster. The show is produced, recorded and edited by Thomas Ouellette.

Email us at handsomepod at gmail.com and please follow us on social media at handsomepod. Some people just know they could save hundreds on car insurance by checking Allstate First. Like you know how to check and make sure you've got extra nachos before your friends come over to watch the big game. Yeah, checking first is smart. So check Allstate First for a quote that could save you hundreds. You're in good hands with Allstate. This content is intended for audiences in the US only.

Savings vary, terms apply. Allstate firing casualty insurance company and affiliates, Northbrook, Illinois. Hi, I'm Caleb Herron, host of the So True podcast now on HeadGum. Every week me and my guests get into it and we get down to what's really going on. I ask them what's so true to them, how they got to where they are in life, a bunch of other questions. And we also may or may not test their general trivia knowledge. Whether it's one of my sworn enemies, like Brittany Broski or Drew Fualow, or my actual biological mother, Kelly, my guests and I are just after the truth.

And if we find it great, and if not, no worries. So subscribe to So True on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Pocket Casts, or wherever you get your podcasts, and watch video episodes on the So True with Caleb Heron YouTube channel. New episodes drop every Thursday. Love ya!