Heart Starts Pounding: Horrors, Hauntings, and Mysteries - Lizzie Borden: A Fresh Look at a Classic Case

Episode Date: June 1, 2023

What really happened the morning that Andrew and Abby Borden were murdered with an axe, and why is it still unsolved? Let's dive into the real story, full of the twists and turns that make that day one of the greatest unsolved mysteries in American history.   Subscribe on Patreon for more long form content, including exclusive episodes, and to become a member of our Rogue Detecting Society. Follow on Tik Tok and Instagram for a daily dose of horror. Heart Starts Pounding is written and produced by Kaelyn Moore.  Music from Artlist Shownotes: www.heartstartspounding.com/episodes/lizzieborden

Adelaide Churchill was washing dishes one morning in Fall River, Massachusetts. It was almost time for lunch, and the new England air was quickly heating in the early August sun. From her kitchen window, she could see the three-story house of her neighbors, the Bordans. They were a quiet and polite family, but this morning, Adelaide could see the shadow of someone through their front door screen, pacing back and forth, as if in a panic. At once, she realized it was Lizzy, the youngest daughter of the family. Something didn't seem right.

So Adelaide opened her window and called out across the yard. Is everything okay, Lizzy? Lizzy stopped pacing and stood at the screen door. Oh Adelaide, she yelled. Come quick. Fathers been killed. It's that feeling. When the energy and the room shifts, when the air gets sucked out of a moment, and everything starts to feel wrong, it's the instinct between

fight or flight. When your brain is trying to make sense of what it's saying, it's when your heart starts pounding. Welcome to Heart Starts Pounding, a podcast of horrors, hauntings and mysteries. I'm your host, Kaelin Moore. This is a community of people who follow their dark curiosity wherever it may lead them. If you'd like to dive deeper into the community and I hope you do, you can follow the show on Instagram and TikTok at a Hurtstripe's Founding or join our Patreon.

There you'll have access to archived episodes, bonus content and some remixed episodes with commentary from Leo and I, all for just $3 a month. That people day of August 4th, 1892, would go down in American history as one of the most brutal and disturbing days of the 19th century. Echoes of the murder of Andrew and Abbey Borden can still be heard today. I'm sure you recognize the old schoolhouse rhyme. Lizzy Borden took an axe, gave her mother 40 wax. Once she saw what she had done,

she gave her father 41. The rhyme depicts Lizzy Borden as a murderous psychopath, killing her mother in cold blood and then turning around to do the same to her father. killing her mother in cold blood and then turning around to do the same to her father. But have you heard the real story of Lizzy Borden? Because in reality, Lizzy was never convicted of the murder of her father and stepmother in 1892. The jury just didn't believe there was enough evidence that pointed directly to Lizzy. And to be fair, at the time there really wasn't. I want to pull apart this case today. I want to tell you the story, the real story of Lizzie Borden and the tragic day of August 4th, 1892. And for this one, listener discretion is advised. Let's dive in. is advised. Let's dive in. The night before Lizzie Borden found her parents brutally murdered, everyone in the

Borden household was throwing up. Something about dinner had been set right in any of their stomachs. Inside the house was Andrew Borden, Lizzie's father, Abbey Borden, Lizzie's stepmother, Bridget, their housekeeper, John V. Morse, Andrew's brother-in-law, and Lizzie's uncle, Lizzie who was 32 at the time, and Emma, her older sister, who was 41. After dinner, everyone retired to their respective bedrooms without speaking, clutching their stomachs. Getting sick after dinner was a rare occurrence in the household, but going to bed without speaking was not.

There were two distinct groups in the board and household. There was Andrew and Abby, who had gotten married 26 years prior, just two years after the death of Lizzie's biological mother, and then there was Lizzie and Emma, the sisters. These two groups never ate together and hardly spoke at all. Whenever Uncle John Morse visited, which was becoming frequent, he would mostly hang out with Andrew and Abby, rarely seeing Lizzie and Emma unless it was to exchange the most basic of pleasantries. Bridget, the housekeeper, tended to float between the two groups, helping

out wherever she was needed. It's unconfirmed, but Bridget may have actually had a favorite member of the household. See, though Bridget had been with the boardens for a few years, Lizzie, Emma, and Andrew all referred to her by their last housekeeper's name. Maggie. Abby, the stepmother, was the only member of the house that called her by her real first name, Bridget. So in this episode, I'm going to be referring to Bridget by her real name, because to do otherwise, would be rude, Lizzy. That's a rude thing to do.

It's on strange that these two groups had little to do with each other under the same roof. But in this house, it was easy to ignore one another. The Borden residence was a three-story home and fall river massacres. And while not extravagant, it was very comfortable for its five residents in one guest. Everyone had their own room, and Bridget lived in the servants quarters upstairs. Let me be very clear here. The Bordans could have lived in a much bigger house that they wanted to. They were not in want of more money. Andrew Bordans' grandfather was an incredibly successful businessman in his day, and boy, oh boy, did that money trickle down the board and bloodline. Andrew had a

brother who lived a life of decadence and risk, turning his inheritance into a large fortune. But Andrew was the exact opposite. He thought there was honor and hard work, and he chose to work a typical 9-5 as a cabinet maker, working his way up to furniture maker later in life and eventually becoming the director of the merchants manufacturing company. He saved his money, never spending any more than he needed to, and boasting that he had never once borrowed money from anyone. But the night of August 3rd, the last night of his life.

None of that really mattered as he was doubled over with stomach cramps. All he could think about was getting up early the next day to go to work. Everyone in the house that night retired early. The morning of the tragedy, August 4th, was just like any other morning at the boarden house. Let's run through the sequence of events. Abby and Andrew awoke early and ate breakfast at 7 a.m. with Uncle John Morse. All of them were still suffering from the food poisoning, but they still had cold mutton, pancakes, coffee, and tea. Nothing like cold mutton after spending the entire night throwing up. At 845, Uncle John left to go visit a relative that lived nearby.

A few minutes later, Lizzie came downstairs to eat breakfast by herself. Her sister Emma had been out of town for a few weeks at that point visiting friends, so Lizzie dined alone. At 9.15am, Andrew left the house to go attend some business downtown. Around the time that Andrew left, Abby asked the housekeeper Bridget to wash the downstairs windows from the outside, while Abby went upstairs to make the guest bedroom. Lizzie remained downstairs. At 10.45, Andrew returned home from downtown but was unable to unlock the front door because it had been bolted from the inside.

Bridget ran over to help him and yelled out an expletive that made Lizzie laugh. Bridget heard Lizzie laugh from the top of the stairs as she was descending down to the first floor. When he entered the house, Andrew went upstairs to his bedroom, then came back downstairs and asked Lizzie where Abby was. Lizzie replied that Abby got a note from a friend and was out of the house. He then went into the sitting room to take a nap on the couch. Lizzie, on the other hand, went back out to the shed to get a sinker for a fishing line. As she was coming back into the house, she heard a strange groan from the drawing room. It was when she came back to the house that she found Andrew lying on the couch, dead.

The first police officer on the scene was chief Hilliard. He was told that there was trouble at the boarden house, but he was not prepared for what he was about to see. Upon entry, he didn't recognize that it was Andrew laying on the couch. Andrew was laying on his right side with his legs still dangling off the front. The left side of his head had ten deep and brutal wounds from some sort of sharp small object.

Whatever was used was sharp enough to completely bisect his left eye socket. Chief Hillier described Andrew as having been quote, hacked to pieces. But he also noticed that the scene around Andrew was very clean. No specs of blood anywhere aside from where his head had been bashed in on the pillow. Lizzie summoned Dr. Bowen, the family doctor, and told him to write to her sister, Emma, who was staying 30 miles away.

She told him to not tell her all of the gruesome details of her father's murder. Others also needed to be made aware of Andrew's passing, namely Abby. Chief Hilliard was told that Abby had received a note asking her to visit a friend. He asked Lizzie if she could bring him the note, but Lizzie said that she didn't know where it was.

Bridget, on the other hand, started getting antsy. She didn't hear Mrs. Borden leave, and she had been upstairs and her quarters lying down when Andrew was killed. The house was big, but it wasn't that big. How was she not aware of what was going on? Bridget insisted that they needed to find Abby now and tell her what had happened. And that's when Lizzie offered up some information. Lizzie told everyone that actually, she thought she heard Abby return, and that she thought she was upstairs. Bridget ascended the stairs with Adelaide Churchill, who was the neighbor from the beginning. Adelaide came over after hearing all of the commotion.

The two women slowly tiptoed up the stairs. If Abby was home, she would have heard all of the panicking and come downstairs. So now, they feared the worst. Mrs. Churchill only cleared the stairs enough to see the guest bedroom, but from where she stood, she could see Abby lying on the floor. The women ran downstairs and told Dr. Bowen to go look.

They couldn't bear seeing Abby like that. Upon first glance, Dr. Bowen actually thought Abby had died of fright. She was lying on the floor, face down, but slightly on her left cheek, with her arms just raised above her head. But as he got closer, he could see blood, dark maroon, all around her head. It was clear that Abby had suffered more than Andrew. She had 19 wounds to the head with what looked like the same weapon that was used on Andrew. There was one thing about Abby's scene that was very odd, however.

The blood around Abby's head had congealed, like really congealed. Andrew's wounds were so fresh that blood still dripped down his face when Dr. Bowen arrived. This led him to make a shocking realization about the murder. Abby had been murdered in an hour and a half earlier than Andrew. When you think about it, this is wild. The murderer killed Abby without Bridget and Lizzie hearing or seeing anything strange, and then came back an hour and a half later and did the same thing. The fact about Abby's murder also changes a lot about the timeline of events I gave you

earlier, but guess what? That timeline was constructed from Lizzie and Bridget's testimony and not only was it now really suspicious, but it was changing. What Lizzie was telling police seemed to change with each person she talked to. Let's run through the timeline again, now knowing what we know. So if Abby was killed at around 9.15am, that meant Bridget and Lizzie were downstairs when someone hit Abby in the back of the head with a hatchet, watched her collapse, and then kept hitting 18 more times. Abby was also a short and very stocky woman. It was shocking to investigators that her deadweight

fell face first and no one on the downstairs floor heard a thud. And not only that, but the door to the guest bedroom was left wide open, and Adelaide confirmed that you could see the dismembered body from the stairs. According to the timeline, this means that Lizzie went upstairs, passed the guest bedroom, and never saw a thing. Lizzie and Bridget were both questioned that day. Bridget was frantic and panicked, while Lizzie remained composed as she normally was, not crying a single tear. Bridget's version of events never changed, and her story put her outside washing windows

when Abby was killed, and up the back staircase in her outside washing windows when Abby was killed, and up the back staircase in her servants' quarters when Andrew was killed. She used a separate staircase that didn't go past the guest bedroom. So Bridget was technically in a position to not see or hear anything strange. She would, however, have been able to see and intruder enter at the time of Abby's murder, and she never saw a thing. Bridget's story was confirmed by Lizzie's account of events. Lizzie's account of what Lizzie was doing, however, started changing a lot. When asked where she was when Andrew came home, she calmly recounted that she was already downstairs waiting for an iron

to heat up, not that she was coming down the stairs. But Bridget insisted that Lizzie had been descending the staircase from the second floor when she laughed at Bridget trying to let Andrew in. But Lizzie said, no, actually she had been downstairs the entire time. There was also the issue of where Lizzie had been during Andrew's murder. Lizzie claimed that she had gone out to the shed to get a lead sinker for a fishing line. Police asked Lizzie if she fished. No, she replied. They asked why it took her so long to get the lead sinker. Wouldn't that task have taken all of 20 seconds? Lizzie explained that she didn't know where they

were in the shed. She remembered seeing them five years ago, but couldn't remember if they still had them. She also picked a pair from a tree and sat down and ate it inside of the shed. So Lizzie hadn't ever touched a lead sinker and hadn't even seen one in the last five years. Why in this specific moment did she have to go to the shed to get one? She also couldn't tell investigators where the fishing line was that she said she was getting the sinker for. To police, her story seemed totally unrealistic. Why was she doodling out in the shed for so long? Was this a cover-up? But I want to make a note about the life that Lizzy was living at the time. Lizzy was an upper-class, unmarried and childless woman.

There was, objectively, not much for a woman in her position to do every day. Spending upwards of 30 minutes eating a pair and looking around a shed mid-morning was technically possible. The next order of business for investigators was to search the house. Based on their wounds, it was assumed a small axe or hatchet was used to murder Andrew and Abby, but the location of this murder weapon was unknown. It wasn't until they got to the basement that they found anything that even looked suspicious in the entire house.

Everything else was so orderly, there was no other crime committed that day, no robbery, nothing. But in a box of tools, police found a handleless hatchet. The handle looked like it had been recently separated. Could it have come off during the attack? The hatchet, however, did not have any blood on it, and the few strands of hair found by it were later determined to be from a cow, so it was something, but was it the murder weapon?

Also downstairs was a barrel full of water and a few bloody rags. When asked about it, Lizzie said that she was menstruating, and those were just rags that When asked about it, Lizzie said that she was menstruating, and those were just rags that she was using. Bridget mentioned that she didn't know when the rags had been placed down in the barrel, but it could have been days prior. Disposable pads used for menstruation had just been invented, but weren't widely used yet. So it's not unlikely that these were reusable menstruation pads. I know that a bucket of bloody rags sounds really suspect today, but context is important here. Speaking of blood, the crime scenes were shockingly clean, considering how gruesome they were.

There was no trail of blood on the floor, not even blood splatter on the walls or carpet near the body. But surely, whoever committed this crime must have some blood on them, right? Well, investigators were already suspicious of Lizzie, but she was spotlessly clean, and Bridget confirmed that Lizzie hadn't changed clothes that day. They searched her closet and made meticulous notes about her dresses, but they couldn't find anything that was consistent with blood from the crime scene. The perimeter of the house was searched to see if there was any damage from a break-in or tracks from someone escaping. But no, there was nothing.

So let's take stock of the physical evidence that we have. One, three-inch hatchet found in the basement that was missing a handle and did not have any blood on it. And that's it. It's not much to go off of, but Lizzy was still arrested for the double homicide and would spend the next nine months in jail awaiting trial. Yes, her story of what she did that day did change a bit, and she was shockingly calm for someone who stumbled upon the mangled body of her father. But the biggest piece of evidence against Lizzie wasn't something that she had done that day. It was something she had done the day before, after the break. the break. Two years before his murder, Andrew had sent Lizzie on an all-expenses-paid trip to Europe

for unmarried women. And upon her return, he had gifted her a beautiful, seal-skin cape. It wasn't like Andrew to spend his money extravagantly, especially on his own daughters. For having a mast a large fortune, the allowance he gave to Lizzy each week was less than what she would have made as a spinner in town. On August 3rd, the day before the murders, Lizzy walked into a local drugstore and told the clerk that she needed something to fix up her seal skin cape. And to do that, she said she would need Precic acid. Precic acid is an incredibly deadly poison. And the pharmacist had never heard of it being used for clothing. But Lizzie insisted that she

needed the Precic acid for the task. When asked later if she had ever used it on a seal skin cape before, she replied that she hadn't. The pharmacist refused to give Lizzie the poison, and eventually she laughed. Upon learning this, alarms went off in investigators' heads. Lizzie was trying to buy poison the day before her father and stepmother are mysteriously murdered. And did this have anything to do with their food poisoning that night?

The morning of the murders, Abby was so concerned by how sick everyone in the house had been, that she ran across the street to the doctor and told him she thought they had been poisoned. So now they had reason to believe that she was intending on killing her family. But we still don't know why. Well, when I mentioned earlier that the two sets of Borden's lived separate lives, there was a reason for that.

And during Lizzie's trial, which started on June 5, 1893, more information was revealed about the nature of Lizzie's relationship with her stepmother. Lizzie's birth mother, Sarah Borden, passed away when Lizzie was just two years old from uterine congestion, again with the old time he causes of death that just don't tell us anything. Andrew and Abby got together just two years later. In some ways, Abby was the only mother that Lizzie ever knew, but that didn't stop Lizzie from complaining about her a lot. At her trial, multiple people

commented on nasty remarks they heard Lizzie make against Abby previously, that she was mean, that she was after her father's money. A few months before Abby's death, Lizzy actually snapped at a dressmaker who referred to Abby as Lizzy's mother. She corrected the dressmaker that no. Abby was her stepmother. Her real mother had died when she was young.

The root of some of these complaints seemed to stem from a dispute that was had six years prior. Abby's half-sister wanted to buy their father's house from her mother after their father's death, but she lacked the funds to do so. So Andrew stepped in and purchased the house outright for Abby's half-sister, putting the house under Abby's name. half-sister, putting the house under Abby's name. This infuriated Emma and Lizzie. Their father had always been incredibly stingy with them. He refused to live the high society life that he was financially able to and give his daughter a higher status in town. He didn't even buy a house that had plumbing or electricity.

And now he was buying up property for the half-sister of someone who wasn't even their mother. It was after this event that they all started eating separately. Emma had never referred to Abby as their mother, and now Lizzie started referring to her as just Mrs. Borden. But at the end of the day, this was a dispute that happened six years ago. And to the jury of all men that were deliberating Lizzie's fate, they didn't seem so convinced that this was enough to put Lizzie away for the crime. In fact, very little evidence during the trial seemed to put the blame on Lizzie.

Probably one of the most shocking things to happen during the trial was on day two when the prosecution brought in the actual skulls of Andrew and Abby, cleaned and deflashed. This was so the jury could see the brutal damage done to them. Upon seeing the skulls, Lizzie fainted. As would many people, I imagine. Both skulls had about one-fourth of the bone missing.

Just gaping holes were some maniac butchered them. That was the most emotional Lizzy got during the trial. For the most part, she was as calm and collected as she was every other day of her life. In reality, Dr. Bowen had prescribed Lizzy morphine for her nerves, so Lizzy was actually really, really high when the trial was happening. In general, however, Lizzy had an incredibly composed nature. Looking at these skulls, it seemed like a rage-filled psychopath had committed this crime, not a mild-mannered woman.

For example, just a few months before Lizzie's trial, just up the road, another ax murder actually happened. On May 30, 1893, Bertha Manchester died from, quote, 23 distinct and separate ax wounds on the back of her skull and its base. Local headlines read, quote, The Man with the Axe has once again come to the front and fall river, suggesting that whoever was responsible for Bertha's murder may have also been the perpetrator in the boarding case.

But there were some distinct differences in the two cases. For one, Bertha's murderer confessed immediately. Jose Carrera Damello was a Portuguese farmhand who had grievances about his wages with Bertha's father. Bertha's father owned the farm and to get revenge on the farmer, he attacked his daughter with an axe. D'Amello had arrived only months prior, and there was no way he was responsible for the

Borden slaying. But everyone in town had heard about this crime, and they thought that this was the typical axe murder. Passionate, hateful, messy, impulsive, all of the things that the quiet and composed Lizzie Borden was not. And don't get me wrong, some of this had to do with the fact that she was a woman and women didn't typically commit ax murders. But at the time, actually, there were a lot of crazy beliefs about women and violence.

Here are a few fun facts. For one, it was believed that menstruating made women more violent. So minus a few points for Lizzie because she had told police she was menstruating around the time of the murder. Another belief was that women have less rational control over their actions, especially their sexuality. But at the same time, they were less prone to criminal activity. Therefore, women who did commit crimes were seen as more morally depraved than their male

counterparts. But this didn't extend to prostitution, which was seen as an understandable natural crime for the sexually aggressive woman. But basically, all this meant that if Lizzie was found guilty, she would be viewed as an untamed, morally depraved monster way worse than any man who committed this crime, so the defense needed to prove her innocence. I want to also talk about the issue with the hatchet that came up during the trial. The only physical evidence that they had for the crime.

It was brought up by the defense that the blade of the hatchet was 3.5 inches long. However, and this is really important. Some of the wounds on Abby were only two inches long. They couldn't have been made by that hatchet. It was also suggested that to get enough leverage to make the wounds as deep as they were, the hatchet would need a handle

that was at least 14 inches long. The missing handle for the hatchet was estimated to be 12 inches long. It's not a huge discrepancy, but it was starting to feel like the one thing the prosecution had, the murder weapon, wasn't legit. Then there was the medical examiner, who, upon doing an autopsy on Andrew and Abby, ruled that there in fact wasn't poison in their stomachs. They all did happen to get food poisoning that night. Lizzie included. There was no evidence that Lizzie had tried to poison them that night, and maybe she

actually was trying to get the pressic acid for her cape. It was looking like things were going to go in Lizzie's favor. There just wasn't enough to prove that it was her. But then Alice Russell took the stand. And she had witnessed something that did not look good for Lizzie. Alice Russell was Lizzie's older, spinster friend. And she had seen Lizzie both the night before the murder and stayed in the boarding house for few nights afterwards to help out Lizzie and Emma. stayed in the board and house for a few nights afterwards to help out Lizzie and Emma. The night before the murder, Alice said Lizzie mentioned she was feeling like she was

slipping into a depressive episode. Lizzie said she felt as if something was hanging over her and followed her around wherever she went. Now, depressive episodes don't make people axe murderers, but do we think that they really had a good understanding of mental health in the late 1800s? No. Lizzie also spoke of her father's enemies, mentioning that a man had come by to ask Andrew about renting a property but was turned away.

He left the boarding house sneering. After the murder, Alice remained at the board in household and slept there overnight. On Sunday morning, she came down to find Lizzy behaving strangely. Lizzy and Emma were stuffing something into the oven. Alice asked what they were doing, and Lizzy responded that she had a dress that was covered in paint that she was going to burn. Alice told Lizzy that she shouldn't let anyone see her doing that because it looked suspicious as hell, but Lizzie just ignored her.

When investigators went through their notes on Lizzie's dresses, they didn't see anything about a dress covered in paint. And they would have taken note of that, was this address that Lizzie had hidden? But then, Emma took the stand and said that it was her idea to burn the dress, not Lizzie's, which made it seem like a much more innocent task. The dress felt damning.

Was this the blood-soaked piece of evidence that the prosecution needed to put Lizzie away? The only problem was that they didn't have the dress, and Alice didn't see what was on it, so it was another weak lead against Lizzy. The trial went on for three weeks, in the sweltering heat of summer, and Lizzy never testified for any of it. Reporters couldn't believe that everyone inside the courtroom had survived the mid-90s heat wave for almost a month. The prosecutors argued that while there was no physical evidence, all of the circumstantial evidence pointed towards Lizzie. There weren't any other suspects. It

had to be her, but that's not how our justice system works. For Lizzie to be found guilty, she'd need to be found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. And when it came down to render a verdict, the jury gave a resounding, not guilty. The courtroom full of mostly female spectators erupted in cheers. Lizzy fell to her knees and rested her head on the rail. It seemed that no one believed Lizzie could have committed this crime. Though the crowd celebrated her acquittal,

the support dwindled over the years. Lizzie remained in Fall River, buying a much nicer home in a much nicer part of town with her sister Emma, but she was shunned by her community. Lizzie became a recluse, and later in life, even Emma turned her back on her. Lizzie Borden died on June 1, 1927. Her final ask was to be laid at her father's feet. We've had 130 years to speculate about this case, and every theory you can think of has been posed.

Lizzie was epileptic and didn't remember committing the murders. Uncle John Morse, who had a perfect alibi, only went to get his alibi so he could come back and commit the murders. He was a butcher, mind you, and he had been known to carry a cleaver on him. One that sounds more reasonable to me was that Lizzie intended to poison her stepmother to make sure that she wasn't in her father's will. And then, when the poison wasn't available, she did it by other means. After she saw what she had done, she panicked that her father would know it was her

and killed him as well. None of these theories sound like home runs to me, but maybe that's because I don't want to think that Lizzie committed these murders. Because to me, that's the scariest thing of all. If Lizzie boarded the most unassuming person in this story, who never even raised her voice and was calm, cool, and collected her entire life, sat on a grudge that she held for six years waiting. Until one day, she enacted her revenge on her own father for no reason.

That is going to keep me up at night. Next week, join me for a bonus episode with professors of criminology, Amy Schlossberg and Megan Sachs, who host the Women in Crime Podcast. We're going to be looking at this case from a modern criminology angle, and you don't want to miss it. And a special thanks to the show's patrons, Mary Ann Ellis, Sam Eric, Karen Danielle, Jade Rowan, Dave Julie Amy, Keri, Ivy Jennifer, Marie, Tracy, Eliana, Smelly Taco, Soup, I couldn't find your name.

Rita, Holly, Mary, Crisell, Audrey, Danielle, Ingrid, Kevin, Amelia, Brandon, Piper, Connie, Kirin, DJ, Vanessa, Jessica, Julian, Cassie, Alyssa, Valerie, and Anya. I love you all. This has been Heart Starts Pounding, written and produced by me, Kaelin Moore, music by Artless.

Special thanks to Travis Dunlap, Grace and Jornigan, the team at WME and Ben Jaffee. Have a heart pounding story you'd like to tell or a case request, check out Heart Starts Pounding.com. Until next time, stay curious. you