Hits 21 - 1990 (1): Band Aid II, New Kids On the Block, Kylie Minogue

Episode Date: October 5, 2024

Hello everyone! Welcome back to Hits 21! It's time for a new season: Hits 21 - The 90s. At the roundtable from now on it's Rob, Andy, and Ed, with Lizzy stepping aside for the next while. This week we've got almost uninterrupted Stock Aitken Waterman, Rob's demanding justice for De La Soul, and we find out which of us existed when these songs were released. Twitter: @Hits21UK Email: [e-mail]

The End Hello everyone, welcome back. This is Hits21 The 90s and it's where me, Rob, me, Andy, and me, Ed, will look back at every single UK number one of the 1990s. If you want to get in touch with us, you can find us over on Twitter, we are at Hits21UK, that is at Hits21UK, and you can email us too. Send it on over to the same email address as always, Hits21Podcast at gmail.com. Thank you ever so much for joining us again. We are currently looking back at the year 1990 and this week we will be covering the period between the 1st of January and the 27th of January. Now we've jumped back 19 years, nearly 20 years in time, and we have a new third voice which you just heard there. So as a way to kind of reacquaint everybody with the show and where we all were and introduce Ed formally, we're going to take a little pause and just kind

of look back at where we were in 1990, if we were in 1990, because I wasn't in 1990, I hadn't happened yet. Andy, I don't think you had. Yeah, I'm T minus two at this point. Yeah, I'm yet to happen until several years in. I am currently at the time of recording older than both my parents were in January 1990. Yeah, me too. Which is quite something. Thanks for that.

Yeah, lovely. So Ed, you said hello on the year review, the Dec-Ed review the end of 2009. Oh yeah, from Spain. Yes, from Spain. Back in the UK now, but were you in 1990? Was there a you? Oh yes, yes. I'm old. I think I was brought on here because it's like oh who do we know who's old and likes music We should give the listeners a clue you're not like in your 90s, you know, don't spoil it

I wanted people to guess Maybe quite notified when they said I've got to be mid 40s mid 50s. Come on. Yeah, I mean I've narrowed it down But I'm not giving it away, yeah. Yeah, so sub-90 basically. Yeah, I was alive at this point, although honestly, 1990 is a pretty interesting one because I was not aware of any of the stuff that we'll be covering today. However, I think by the end of 1990, my earliest

musical memories start coming through. There is a specific song at the end of 1990 that I remember being kind of the first new piece of music at least that sort of resonated with me. I remember telling my mum about it in my pushchair and remember being embarrassed because I couldn't remember the words and I made I remember telling my mom about it in my pushchair And remember being embarrassed because I couldn't remember the words and I made them up But we won't be covering that song unfortunately But in case anybody wanted to know it is the I think still rather marvelous crazy by seal Which comes out later in the year. It's November I think, that's released, November 1990, and it doesn't reach number one. But who knows, maybe we'll be hearing

from Seal in another capacity. And you know, it may eventually make it, you know, I mean, look at Sophie Ellis Bexter, look at Kate Bush, no one's out the game these days, so. No, yeah, that's very true. Alright then, so we've kind of reacquainted everybody there, everybody's settled down. So now it's basically just business as usual, but for the 1990s instead of the 2000s. And business as usual means we're going to start with some news headlines from around the time the songs we're covering in this week's episode were at number one. Eight months on from the Hillsborough disaster, Lord Justice Taylor produces his report. He recommends that all top division stadiums

in football become fully seated venues by 1994 and reveals that the main reason for the disaster was a failure of police control. As of 2024, the total number of victims stands at 97. 39 people die across England and Wales during the Burns Day storm. Hurricane force winds of over a hundred kilometers an hour were recorded while gusts of over 150 kilometers an hour damaged buildings and closed airports and train stations across the country. The total cost to repair the damage topped £3 billion, with power cut off from over 500,000 homes. In London, 50,000 people demonstrate on the streets in support of Britain's striking

ambulance workers. The strike, which eventually stretched for five months, resulted in a 16% pay rise for paramedics. And in South Africa, police break up an anti-apartheid demonstration against the England cricket team, who had arrived in the country to play a planned test series. The films to hit the top of the UK box office during this period were as follows. Back to the Future 2 for one week, When Harry Met Sally for one week, and Parenthood for two weeks and on UK TV

We're treated to the first episodes of Mr. Bean one foot in the grave teenage mutant ninja turtles and Baywatch at the American Music Awards the big winners are Paula Abdul Bobby Brown New kids on the block Millie Vanilli, Luther Van Dros, Janet Jackson and MC Hammer. That's a dinner party for you. And comedy actor Terry Thomas dies at the age of 78, less than a year after a benefit concert was held to raise money for his treatment for Parkinson's. And the BBC broadcasts the 1990 Commonwealth Games, providing full live coverage of an

overseas Commonwealth Games for the first time. Hosted in New Zealand, the game saw Australia finish top of the medals table with 162 medals, while England finished second with 128. So Andy, for the first time in the 1990s, the UK album charts, how are they looking at the beginning of this year? Well it's interesting to start with this one because I'm actually having to dip right back into the 80s, a full month into the 80s. I've only got two albums to talk to you about this week

because the first of them reached number one on the 2nd of December, 1989, and is still number one all the way through to the end of January. And that's Phil Collins with But Seriously or dot dot dot But Seriously, a aptly named album now because that's what I say when someone suggests putting Phil Collins on. The other thing about this is becoming in red hot with the highest selling album of the year that is But Seriously by Phil Collins is the highest selling album of the year that is but seriously by Phil Collins is the

highest selling album within the year of 1990. I say within the year because the highest selling album in the long view of time is still to come that's much later in the year but yeah we got Phil Collins really really storming into the decade there and at the very very end of this period on the very last day of this period actually Phil Collins is finally toppled off the top for just one week with colour by the Christians, which went single platinum and was number one for just one week. So Lizzie would usually be given us the US charts and it's now Ed's job to give us the statistics from across the Atlantic. So Ed, for the first time in the 90s as well, how are the Americans getting on? Yes, just imagine me as a kind of Jonathan King on top of the Pops type figure.

Actually, no, please don't. Anyway, write US albums. Funnily enough, shockingly, but seriously, also Phil Collins for one week. And then in the second week of January we have Girl You Know It's True by Millie Vanillie, which I, if it got anywhere in the UK, I can't find any evidence of that. And also, kind of ironic title given the act. But for the final two weeks of January in the States, it's back to Phil with But Seriously. I mean, what was the deal there?

Just, oh, I mean, this is an era I really don't like of Phil Collins. I really don't want to come straight in just hell and abuse Phil Collins, because I do this quite a lot in most of my life, and I shouldn't do it here. Right, in the singles in the US. Yeah, well, you could probably tell there's a bit of a pattern here because looking at

the singles, first two weeks of January, guess what? But seriously, it's Phil Collins with another day in paradise. But he is knocked off firmly for the following three weeks by Michael Bolton How am I supposed to live without you which was actually also a hit in the UK It reached number three here. However, alright Thank you both very much for those reports and we are now gonna jump in to our first song of for those reports and we are now going to jump in to our first song of Hits 21, The Nineties. I'm going to try and say it in that voice every time, that kind of brief

pause and a look to the side, a look to camera 2, The Nineties. You're going to regret making that commitment here in the first episode. I'll forget after like two weeks, I know I will. But here it is, the first number one of 1990 is this. It's Christmas time, there's no need to be afraid At Christmas time, we let him light and we banish shame And in our world of plenty We can spread a smile of joy Throw your arms around the world at Christmas time But say your prayers, pray for the other ones

At Christmas time, it's hard but we're no happy ones But there's a world outside your window And it's a world of dread and fear Where the only water flowing Leaves the finger, stings our cheeks And the Christmas bells ring there Oh, the night it turns to dew Okay, this is Do They Know It's Christmas by Band Aid 2. Released as a standalone charity single, Do They Know It's Christmas is Band-Aid 2's first single to be released in the UK and their first to reach number one.

It is also the only single to be released by the supergroup in the UK and their only single to top the charts. The single is a cover of the song originally released by Band-Aid, which got to number 1 in 1984. Do They Know It's Christmas went straight in at number 1 as a brand new entry knocking Jive, Bunny and the Master Mixers off top spot in 1989. It stayed at number 1 for 3 weeks and was the Christmas number 1 for 1989. In its first week atop the charts it sold 184,000 copies although advanced sales hit 500,000 beating competition from Donald Wears Your Troosers by Andy Stewart which climbed to number 6 and Dear Jessie by Madonna which climbed to number 7. In week 2 it sold 181,000 copies, beating competition from Sister by Bross, which climbed to number 10. And in week 3 it sold 59,000 copies, beating competition from When You Come Back To Me by Jason Donovan, which climbed to number 2.

Get A Life by Soul to Soul, which climbed to number 3. The Magic Number by De La Soul, which climbed to number 3, The Magic Number by De La Soul, which climbed to number 8, Hangin' Tough by New Kids on the Block, which climbed to number 9 and You Got It, The Right Stuff, also by New Kids on the Block, which climbed to number 10. When it was knocked off the top of the charts, Do They Know It's Christmas fell 3 places to number 4. By the time it was done on the charts it had been inside the Top 100 for six weeks. The song is currently officially certified platinum in the UK as of 2024 Justice

Fadella Soul. So what better way to introduce a new decade than by going to our new panelist first. a new decade than by going to our new panellist first. Ed, you are going to break our duck for the 90s, you are going to be the first person to give their opinion. So, how do we feel about Do They Know It's Christmas? Well, first of all, just that list of artists and songs you just gave, I feel like a total alien. Apparently, I was alive, admittedly, not quite cognizant at this point, but I know barely any of those things. I know those words, but

that sentence doesn't make any sense. But yeah, wow. I didn't know that Band-Aid 2 was a thing until we were preparing for this episode. Didn't know it happened. I didn't know it was Christmas at this point, evidently. But yeah, and it's not really too surprising, is it? I mean, first and foremost, I think just the lack of the lack of recognizable voices here is a big problem. I've made the note, thank God for Chris Rea. And there's not, there's not many contexts, especially in 1990, where that's too appropriate. But my goodness, he's got such a recognizable voice, at least, because forgive my ignorance.

I'm sure you two can probably pick out more sort of voices than this, but I recognize Chris Rea, I recognized Cliff Richard. There were some women and I think there was Boy George about 11 times. Tell me if I'm getting it. Yeah, well the fact that there are women with solo parts puts it above Band Aid in that respect.

Yeah, that's true. Because they are all male voices till the end, yeah. I'm very... Do you know what? I'm glad that you are helping me find redeeming features, because it's honestly tough. I don't take a perverse glee in slagging things off, but this is really, really bleak, and I don't just mean the context behind it. This is Stock Aitken and Waterman's sort of imperial phase isn't it? It's like the Rome burning phase.

It's all very flatulent and production line and it's... I was trying to... I was listening to it for about the third time. I managed that much and I noticed that there's not really any harmony in this and that's not necessarily a problem but it kind of sounds like there should be. There are kind of independent bass parts and independent quote-unquote instruments or whatever past for instruments in the terrible era of MIDI synthesis we're currently in but Basically what the backing sounds like and probably what it was given the amount of effort I sense was put into this Was I don't know if you've ever used one of those keyboards that has like the first

The first octave or two actually have the option of playing patterns that you can program to a triad or to the tonic note. So basically, I mean I used to have a synth I could do that on and I used to do the bassline and the drums and you'd press like the C, the low up and it goes... And then you just piss around with it and go... And then listen to this and it's like, oh, that's what they're doing. There's just, everything is moving in absolute tandem. It's just, it's Cassio schlock.

I mean, I'm really not a sort of a synth, you know, I love a lot of synth pop. I love that early kind of brutal, timbral sound you get with like, human league. I think it can produce some great and timeless music in spite of what some people might think. But this is a really drab era for synths where they're kind of on that awkward, uncanny cusp of trying to represent instruments too much. I mean, I won't say that this is the worst offender this episode for that. We may come onto that, but, but yeah, it's just, it's also flat. The production is flat. The percussion is pommeling and bassy in a really kind of diuretic way.

But again, I don't think it's quite the worst for that this episode, if you want diuretic percussion, maybe. But yeah, there's a lack of dynamic variation. That's something that I'll go on and on about with people until they get utterly fed up with me. But you know, the breakdown towards the end of the track, where it all drops out, so they can have like your Calypso drum preset on your keyboard.

You'd think ideally it's like you've got all of these voices gathered. All you need to do is just build them up gradually. So it's like everybody joining in. It doesn't, it just stops for a moment. And then you're back to like verbatim repetition of the same chorus they'd already used until someone kindly fades it out.

But, um, oh, I, I, do you know what the problem is? I think what illustrates the sense of absence that marks this song is that while I was listening to it, even the first time, I'm like, I, I, I've never thought this with the original track. I was like, is the original even a good song? But I shouldn't be thinking that. Regardless of whether it is or not, I don't actually know anymore. I shouldn't be thinking that first and foremost on what is supposed to be an event song with loads of star power in it, where there's supposed to be a new distracting showbiz spectacle every couple of seconds. I mean, the song should be taking me along, the moment should be taking me along, and oh my god, the over-singing, the half-hearted, just complete lack of attempt to sort of sensitively interpret

the lyrics in whatever way you can. I mean I don't know how apocryphal it is but there's that long repeated story about Bono with the original version of the song saying you know well tonight thank God it's them instead of you. I wasn't sure about saying that and then and then Gulliver was like go for it and I was like do you know oh I will and do you know what it really worked here. And do you know what? It really worked. Here, and I don't know who's singing it. Can either of you tell me who sings that line

in this version? I would have to look it up. But you know what they do to it though. Yeah. Tonight, thank God it's them instead of you. Na na na na, ooh. It's like, what? You're like dancing on someone's grave or something.

What is happening? It is Jason Donovan and Big Fun, who sing that bit. Oh, bloody hell. It's just mindless. It's mindless chint. I mean, it's got that tinsel on a dead tree vibe, this whole bloody thing.

Anyway, yeah, I'm just just gonna just gonna cool off and let let you two take over here cuz yeah it's a bag of shite I don't want to start the new show on like such a negative note but I can't stand this I think this might be worse than band-aid 20 for quite a few reasons because I at least give band-aid 20 credit for keeping what I think this might be worse than Band-Aid 20 for quite a few reasons, because I at least give Band-Aid 20 credit for keeping what I think is the strongest element of the original Band-Aid song, which is the written through almost kind of linear structure where you keep the backing track running. You rephrase a few sections but it keeps moving forward, each new singer has something different to do, you know, and then you get the big release

at the end with the big coda section, you know, regardless of the issues that we explored when we discussed Band-Aid 20 that I have with the original as a piece of pop songwriting, I think it's quite a triumph actually, just in terms of how it's structured and what it achieves emotionally with the way that it builds and builds and builds and then it releases at the end. To this version's credit, it doesn't do what Band-Aid 20 does where the outro goes on and on and on and loses the run of itself, but I think that's all that has over the 2004 version. This, I don't think it has anything else over Band-Aid 20. This has absolutely sod all over the original. over Band-Aid 20. This has absolutely sod all over the original.

There's a defining moment for me with this song. There was a Christmas party thing a couple of years ago. There was a karaoke league that me and Andy used to be part of. And it was the end of the night. And a few people were sort of nicely tipsy and it was the end of the season. It was nearly Christmas, everyone

was a bit sentimental and they decided to do a group karaoke. Now it's important to remember that basically everyone in this group, apart from me and Andy, were over 30, at least pushing 40 and some of them possibly 50. And they decide, because you know they're all in a big group, that they'd do band Aid. They'd all share the mic around. And they accidentally picked this version without knowing. Oh. And none of them could remember the fact that the structure changes. The new things it does with the structure,

the way they keep forcing the singers to syncopate the opening line, just so we know it's different. No. The fact that they couldn't separate the kind of chintzy, plasticky instrumental from a karaoke version. And that for me was the defining thing with this. Well, like even people who were there don't really think about this or remember it much. It's so overshadowed, I think, by the versions either side of it.

It's maybe a bit between the generations but the whole thing feels so cheap. These days I actually think that this is sort of insulting Stockache and Waterman bringing that coda section forward and interspersing it throughout the song. I think it's because they think we're not patient enough to just wait. You know the song loaded with current acts in the, only half of which have stood the test of time, and quite a lot of the song is just taken up by Kylie and Jason Donovan, who were already on Stock Hacking Waterman label stuff. Kind of points to a bigger issue I have with band-aid covers in general, which is that,

like, somehow, despite being thought about for longer and despite covering a really famous and big selling song, none of the subsequent versions catch even a tenth of the original's timelessness. This one feels more slapdash and careless and doesn't even seem to acknowledge the legacy of the original. Like they don't get Paul McCartney or Phil Collins or Bono back in, who are all still famous at this point. Maybe it's because it had only been five years ago. So they see this as more of like an update than an homage, you know, history, you know, the weight of the past

isn't strong enough yet. But I am startled by the lack of continuity between the two versions and how much cheaper and rush this one feels. It's stockache in Waterman, by the numbers formula all over, they seem like they're just cutting the budget further and further and further down. And Ed, I know you said thank God for Chris Rea, because at least his voice is recognisable,

but he comes in flat on his Christmas tart. He does sound like he's struggling a bit. He always sounds like he's struggling. Yes, yes, yeah. Yes, true. But no, this is a big thumbs down for me. Andy, what about you? It's the 90s! What better way to celebrate our arrival into the 90s.

The last number one of the 80s. Band-Aids, yes. Let's go with that. Anyway, I am going to say one thing in its defense, which you've sort of touched on, Rob. Don't get your hopes up, Band-Aid 2 fans, it's not a big one. But I do think the fact that this is only five years after the original, I do think very, very easy

to forget that and hard to put ourselves in that mindset of 1989 for this because we've all of us grown up and lived our adult lives as well with this as a sacred cow that it's you know the kind of ultimate charity song one of the ultimate Christmas songs it's something that is a collective part of our culture of our you know of our collective memory really and any changes that are made to the song in 2004, 2014, probably this year as well if they do another one, any changes that are made are

always controversial because we consider the original so sacred that's always the version that people go back to all the others are just kind of passing fads. That's not the case yet, you know, there hasn't been any sequels to the original yet, so it's not become a tradition to do it yet. And it's also only five years ago. I mean, that's like, it's the equivalent of that Elton John and Ed Sheeran one from a few years ago, if there was a release of that done this year. Like, it's not, we say legacy,

there's no legacy at all to this yet, really. I know it's not quite the same because so many people were involved with the original, it was generally quite a big cultural moment and Live Aid came out of it as well, you know, obviously it was a big, big deal and I'm not suggesting it wasn't but you know, something that came out five years ago, we can say now, looking back to 2019, you know, those stunks feel like they came out five minutes ago, you know, there's not really any appreciation and a sense of treading lightly with those songs yet. So I think they quite naively decide to just really go back to square one and make a lot of big choices

that you wouldn't dare do these days. You wouldn't dare change the basic form and the basic structure of the song these days, but they do. And they go in with putting Feed the World as a chorus like after each section of the song and turning it into a chorus when it never was which is a really bad decision really bad because it's not chorus and it doesn't work as a chorus they put this big big bassy beat to it which okay Stockade King and Warman era and it's 1989. I do get that, but it really doesn't suit the song. And most notably, because it's not become the kind of standard that we all know and all can recite off the top of our heads these days.

You know, you get artists coming into the booth here just had to just sing it in a completely different way. And like Ed said, she had to really over-sing it, especially the the world be snow in Africa which really stood out to me and and I mean that's just an objectively bad thing to do as far as I'm concerned I hate over singing absolutely despise it but with something like this as well I think it's all about the lyrics and it's got quite a basic tune that everyone can sing along to.

You know, it's... you're really playing a fool's game if you're trying to turn it into a showpiece for yourself because it just isn't. Despite the, you know, the one odd line that might catch on and people might remember through the years like Bono's line or like the Dizzy Rascal bit in 2004. It's not a showcase for yourself. It's never going be. So I think that kind of over singing is silly. I'm also really, really glad, as you've noticed, I've started transitioning into the bad stuff now because it's mostly bad stuff. As Ed mentioned, I'm really, really glad that you did. The harmonies thing, this stood out to me as well

because this is a thing I always have with these types of songs like this or with Perfect Day or with that He Ain't Heavy One from about 10 years ago. That there's this sort of attitude that people have, like it's just taken as a given, that if you have these walk-on songs where it's one line, then the next person, then the next person, then the next person, that that automatically means that it's all just one melody and no one can overlap and there's no harmony because everybody needs to get their moment. Except that's already not the case because there was lots of harmony in the original band date,

you know, there was some really really nice moments like the where nothing ever grows line over the chorus there, you know, that's already been proven to work. You don't need to let everyone stand alone on their moment and in 2004 you get some really nice harmonies between I think is it Jamelia and the guy from Keen? I think just some really nice harmonies together. That's his name! Tom Chaplin, that's the one. And I really don't like the laziness of that, I've just get people in the booth, get the next person in, no interaction with each other.

So I don't have a lot of good things to say about this. I do think in retrospect it really feels like it's riding roughshod over the original but I do want to put that caveat to it of it's only five years after the originals come out we're still in the earliest days of this song's legacy really. It's sort of like how I'm often kind of struck by people when they watch the first couple of Star Wars films and the orchestra are playing the theme quite badly and quite out of tune. It's like, well, they don't know it. It's not famous. It's not famous.

You know, it's not going to be exactly right as you should remember it because it's not famous yet. And this, although the song is famous, it's still a very new one. There's still going to be people walking into the booth who never got around to listen into the original with this So I do give it a slight slight Little bit of respect because of that, but no, this is really bad. It's really trashy And no, I don't think there's any need for further explanation of why this is easily the least famous most Ill-remembered of all the band-aids

But let's see if I will say the same in a few months' time, because we probably will have another instalment to talk about, but we'll see. Of the four we've had so far, this is definitely the worst. Definitely. Well then, on to our second song this week. And it is this Oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh Everybody, if you wanna take a chance Just get on the floor and do the new kids dance Don't worry about nothing, cause it won't take long We're gonna put you in a trance with our funky song

Cause you gotta be Stankin' tough Stankin' tough Stankin' Tough! Hangin' Tough! Hangin' Tough! Hangin' Tough! We're up! Up! Ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh- Okay, this is Hangin' Tough by New Kids on the Block, released as the fourth single from the group's second studio album, titled Hangin' Tough. Hangin' Tough is New Kids on the Block's second single to be released in the UK and

their second to reach number one. However, as of 2024, it is their last. Hangin' Tough first entered the UK chart at number 63, reaching number 1 during its 7th week on the chart. It stayed at number 1 for...2 weeks. In its first week atop the charts, it sold 29,000 copies, beating competition from TouchMe by the 49ers, which climbed to number 6, Got2Get by Robin Razers which climbed to number 6, Got to Get by Robin Raz which climbed to number 7 and Listen to Your Heart by Sonia which climbed to number 10.

And in week 2 it sold 45,000 copies, beating competition from Tears on My Pillow by Kylie Minogue which got to number 2, Got to Have Your Love by Mantronix, which climbed to number 4, You Make Me Feel Mighty Real by Jimmy Somerville, which climbed to number 5, Put Your Hands Together by D-Mob, which climbed to number 7, and Going Back to My Roots by FPIProject, which climbed to number 10. When it was knocked off the top of the charts, Hanging Tough dropped 1 place to number 2. By the time it was done on the charts it had been inside the top 104, 14 weeks. The song is currently officially certified platinum in the UK as of 2024.

I will feel this one first, I don't have a lot to say. So I'm gonna make a noise in a second that's gonna sound like an insult to the boys of New Kids on the Block at this point, and the noise is just...aww. It's one of those I remember my first pint sort of songs. The tough guy posturing, you know, it's less than convincing, seems to be what the entire song rides off though, so oops. Both versions of the song feature an inexplicable solo. The album version with the organ solo is completely out of nowhere. The guitar solo on the single version also not great or appropriate but the big thing for me

is that this shows how fast rap and hip-hop was innovating in the late 80s and how far behind everybody else is because this sounds like something that's trying to riff on like really early run DMC with the big AOR drums and hard rock influences but where like a song like Rock Box is in the conversation for being one of my favourite songs of all time, this is firmly in the opposite camp. I will give these guys credit for basically being the first boy band in the kind of current 90s, 21st century kind of definition of the word. They were the first pop group to perform at the Super Bowl so there were sort of trailblazers in that regard and so knowing what a boy band has to be in the

90s and the 2000s and how it has to look and how far you can push the bad boy side of it, it's a bit untested waters and the scream that the crowd makes when they come out at the Super Bowl, like that's the power of pop to me. But the other stuff, like step by step and the right stuff, I prefer that side. I think they were better as a softer vocal group rather than this kind of, yeah, we're gonna, we're gonna come and it's like Five and Queen all over again. It's just this needless posturing that just doesn't work. This needless braggadocio.

We're gonna come up to your face and we're gonna push you in the face and we're gonna step on your face. Get out of my face. Like it just don't, yeah it doesn't jive. This kind of makes me laugh. And even people who were around at the time, just based on YouTube comments I saw, they kind of look back at it and laugh and they go, ah, come on, you know you loved it really. There's not even like a, it's a guilty pleasure

and I'm proud. It's more of like a, oh God, this isn't even a guilty pleasure for me anymore. And for some reason as well, it reminds me the way that the the vocal line that the rhythm of the vocal lines in the verses, it reminds me of ladies choice from hairspray, where you could just imagine the hey little girl with the cash to burn. I'm selling something you won't return. Like it just it all it does not none of this really comes together for me there's a big gap in the song where stuff should be and maybe I would like that stuff but it's kind of empty and unconvincing and this weird cosplay of stuff that's about almost a decade old at this point I yeah not keen um

decade old at this point, I... yeah, not keen. Ed, how about you? Sorry, that was involuntary. It's just... Oh wow, yeah. I didn't remember them being this bad, really. As you say, you know, stuff like the right stuff, that's fine, as I recall. You're right, you're 100% right to say that, I know this isn't going for pure hip hop, it's not like trying to be boogie down productions or something, well, not totally, that would alienate its broad market. But yeah, it sounds unforgivably out of date and out of step with what hip hop had,

how it had evolved in the last at least three years. I will give it a slight pass in that the album came out in 1988. And it's literally, this was like that it was a long rollout in the UK, I guess. I think America was already done and dusted with this record by this point. And that's it. That's about the extent of my generosity towards this. I've put, interestingly, the keyboard solo is probably the best thing about it. At least that has some spontaneity. Even though it kind of doesn't, but you know, at least they let some wrong notes get in the way It's not all sort of as bludgeoningly sequenced as the rest of the song

Although that that note bend at the end is a tremendous crime But yeah, I think Was this a number one in America I imagine it probably was but earlier But yeah, I think... Was this a number one in America? I imagine it probably was, but earlier. I don't think in 1990 that America perhaps would have swallowed this, because I get the impression, and I might be wrong, my knowledge is a bit shaky of the charts overseas at this point, but I think hip hop was more prevalent in general on the American charts at this point. But I think hip hop was more prevalent in general on the American charts at this point than in the UK. I think for younger chart listeners at this time in the UK,

it was still a bit of a novelty. And so things like this that were just a bit like, you just do a run DMZ type thing, and then you do that and that's what rapping is. That was sort of permissible. And that's, you know, you just do that in a bit of a song and that's a hip hop, that's fun. And you can learn the lyrics really easily.

But I think it was a bit more of a cultish university kind of thing from my recollection. It was the cool adult music that was, you know, people had it on sort of tapes that they'd copied off of the people and things. Rob, you mentioned the messaging here, that just kind of pointless, hollow bragging that's kind of missing the point because, you know, these guys have never, have never cut their teeth in any kind of competition. That would have fair, that's fairly unthinkable. So there's no, there's no background

to it. They've just tried to emulate loosely an attitude they found somewhere else. Or someone else has tried to emulate it for them, should I say. But it's got that kind of, beyond that, it's not even necessarily bragging, because it needs to be more inclusive than that. It's kind of inclusive exclusivity. It's like, if you wanna dance with us, it's really hard, but it's also really easy. Join the dance, but if you mess with us, unless you wanna come and get down with us,

which is fine. It's like, where do I stand? Should I just stand on the periphery here? But it just, it means absolutely nothing, even in the hollowist sense of a gesture but it's just really long just coming to it musically aside from all the context it's it's long and it's bludgeoning and it's somebody kind of misunderstanding the the impact of something like criminal minded. And this was the diuretic percussion I was talking about. It's like the 808s, but it's kind of like a sort of

falling down the stairs kind of vibe instead of something a bit more, you know, rhythmically playful than that. But yeah, I've not got much to say about this either it's it's just a nothingly pile of poser crap really isn't it? Yeah Andy do you feel any better? No. I don't feel any better about it and interestingly even the things I was going to say as my good

points to mention are things that have already been rubbish by you both and vice versa. Things that you've mentioned as good things are things that I think are some of the worst things about the song. I will briefly give a shout out to the Youth Described as Keyboard solo. I think it sounds more like kind of end of the pier sort of thing. It does. And I think that's one of the worst aspects about the song. I think it sounds more like kind of end of the pier sort of thing. It does. Like a whirlig's a disaster. And I think that's one of the worst aspects about the song. I think it's really tinny and awful.

Tinny and awful. I think are sort of the words I would use to describe this song in general, to be honest, and maybe that's quite apt. Yes, this is not very good. New Kids on the Block is, when we started doing Hits 21, I had no idea that a few years later I would be called upon to talk about New Kids on the Block, let me tell you that, because this feels so, so far away from the 10 years time that we started with and this really is showing every one of the 34 years that have passed I think. Not

everything from this era has aged that badly, not everything feels old but this. Oh I think certainly due to what you both said the fact that this is a real blind alley of early hip-hop development if I can be as generous as to call it that. It's very very kitschy retrospect, which is not at all what they were going for. Like, I agree that, you know, this is all about trying to sound like, oh, big masculine tough guys. How do you sound about as tough as yoghurt? Like, they really, really give the opposite effect, really.

And ironically, like Rob mentioned, the one that this reminds me of the most of all of the boy band songs is Five doing we will rock you. It's very similar to that Which equally failed dramatically at coming across as tough and masculine. It mainly came across as people wearing their dad's clothes Which is what this comes across as as well, to be honest. I think which is what this comes across as as well, to be honest. I think the one good thing I like about it is that I think that kind of squelchy synth that sits underneath is quite good and I do think there are parts of it that are a little bit catchy, although the main hook of it that is quite catchy constantly threatens with a copyright claim from Joan Jett, I have to say. There's not an awful

lot of good things to say about it. And I'm gonna put an early marker down here, an early kind of line in the sand for something that's bothered me with at least two songs this week. And definitely is an issue with the whole early 90s in general, which is that there's just no rise and fall. There's no sense of intro, build, diminuendo, crescendo. There's just no sense of that in so many songs.

Like this song, I'm not gonna flatter it by saying it comes in at 100, it doesn't. It comes in more at like a 35 and stays there all the way. You know, you slapped on that drum beat, copied and pasted there for the whole song. Most of the instrumentation, slap it on at the start there. And it's almost like it's deliberately being produced as mood music, as tone music, that's there to kind

of blend into the next song for the DJ and then it comes back out and you can go back into this and sort of seamless in that way. It's a deliberate production choice of the era to have things just kind of wall of sound all the way, never to a huge level, just to this kind of saccharine, kind of worst of both worlds kind of level where, like I say, it comes in and kind of second gear and stays there all the way through. And I really don't like it, I need a little bit of Rise and Fall, I need some peaks and troughs and some of the best songs of this era, the ones that do that really well, that start slow, that build up, that

go big and then take you out again. Really basic stuff, really fundamental stuff, but I've been realizing that I've been taking this for granted, because it's just not something that they do in the early 90s. And this is a good example of that, right from the start. Yes, don't have a huge amount to say about it, other than that it is not good,

and I was briefly tempted, because this is the first episode of the not good and I was briefly tempted because this is the first episode of the new era I was briefly tempted to kind of be weirdly overly nice about both this and Band-Aid and the next song we're covering just to kind of have a more positive vibe for our first episode and I decided you know what no no it's like our listeners have got ears they know that these songs aren't good so sorry everyone it's a bad start but there are much better songs to come than these two, unfortunately.

Well, shall we see if the third song this week is a much better song? It's better, I think it's better. Not much better, but it's better. Yeah, definitely, we'll give it a go though. The third and final song of the inaugural episode of Hits 21, The 90s, is this. You don't remember me, but I remember you. It was not so long ago, you broke my heart in two. Tears on my pillow, pain in my heart caused by you If we could start anew

I wouldn't hesitate I'd gladly take you back And dance the hand of fate Tears On My Pillow by Kylie Minogue. Released as the fourth single from her second studio album titled Enjoy Yourself, Tears on My Pillow is Kylie Minogue's 9th single overall to be released in the UK and her 4th to reach number 1, and it's not the last time we'll be coming to Kylie on this podcast. The single is a cover of the song originally recorded in 1958 by Little Anthony and the Imperials, which did not chart in the UK.

Tears on My Pillow first entered the UK chart at number 2, reaching number 1 during its second week. It stayed at number 1 for...one week! In its first and only week atop the charts it sold 61,000 copies beating competition from Nothing Compares to You by Sinead O'Connor which climbed to number 3 and Could Have Told You So by Halo James which climbed to number 6. When it was knocked off the top of the charts Tears on My Pillow dropped 1 place to number 2. By the time it was done on the charts it had been inside the top 100 for

eight weeks. The song is currently officially certified silver in the UK as of 2024. Andy, we've just heard from you about New Kids on the Block but you can go first with Kylie, how do we feel? Yeah really holding my face to the fire here with my claim that the next one was better feel? Yeah really holding my face to the fire here with my claim that the next one was better and it is it is it's a tiny little tiny little bit better slightly influenced by some of my personal tastes which will become clear. I can't be the only person who knows this song because of Grease that's my experience with this song that it's on the original soundtrack the Shannon R version which is a straight cover of the 50s original no one sings it in Grease that it's on the original soundtrack, the Shannonah version, which is a straight cover of the 50s original. No one sings it in Greece but it's on playing in the diner, I think it's the

scene where Rizzo and Kinekie fall out and he she throws a milkshake at him or something, it's in one of those scenes and my mum had the original LP of the Greece soundtrack which I almost literally wore out in the late 90s. So that was my experience of tears on my pillow. That's how I know this. And the basic DNA of the original is just about there, just about. But they do everything they possibly can to swallow it up. And it really gives you some respect for the sound of the 50s and the simple but effective things that were done That really lifted The music of that time that is not being done to this

It's a real shame because I kind of feel like if I didn't Know that Shannon our version or didn't know that this was a cover that I'd be much kinder to this But there's just so much energy sapped out of this that sits naturally in that song like the chat I'm not actually sure if this is an original I can't remember but in that Shannon R one from Greece you've got that dum ba-dum in the background a little bit like Santa Baby which Kylie would also cover fully enough but it's got that bum ba-dum thing in the background like they really emphasize the swing rhythm and they really kind of fill those gaps in the offbeats because most of the lyrics in the verses, one of the

things I quite like about the composition of the song is that very little of it is sung on the beat so you have those vocal lines beneath the beat that are dump-a-dump, keeping it running all the way through while the melody can be quite virtuoso and quite free form. If you take that out and you also take a lot of the beat out as well and have that very low in the mix, it sounds very formless and like Kylie's just sort of going like dooby dooby dooby do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do,

do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, away from songs when you cover them, which is a bit of a theme for this week, taking small things away can drastically impact the effectiveness of them. Adding small things can also drastically impact the effectiveness of them and adding that big washy,

glumpy synth all the way through this and the strings, those synth strings that come over it as well, doesn't need it. Doesn't need it at all and the whole thing just sounds very very over emotive, very melodramatic, very soapy and I know this is early Cally Monogue, soapy is not something that they would have been trying to avoid but it's not nice, it's not very nice to listen to and it's a real shame that they'd sap so much energy out of the song really. Stockacre and Waterman obviously doing what they do here and I will always kind of come back to the point whenever I'm criticising these things and saying oh why did they do it it sounds awful what a bad idea it's not a bad idea it got number one it's a very good idea like the this stuff was

popular um whether that's right or not is for the birds, but this stuff is popular and I can only shake my head and wonder why to be honest. But I do think it's better than the other two songs this week for a few reasons. Firstly, both Band-Aid and Hangin' Tough hugely overstay their welcome, particularly Hangin' Tough, you're just really willing it to end. This two and a half sprightly minutes doesn't alter the actual structure of the original, doesn't stick around actual structure of the original, doesn't stick around too long, it's fine, it's just a bit of throwaway fluff. Also Kylie has a kind of innate charisma to her really where she could sort of sing the

phone book and you just sort of take it away with her. That it's, yes it's very sickly sweet but it's fine, you know, there's nothing kind of offensively annoying about the vocals in this in the way that both Hangintuff and Band-Aid both had, so it wins a point against those as well. And obviously anyone who's listened to the Noughties incarnation of our show knows that I'm a huge Kylie stan, so I will acknowledge my bias there.

But the interesting thing about this is that even being a really big Kylie fan and knowing a lot of her catalogue, I don't think I'm the only one who like doesn't even know, didn't even know that she did this, let alone know that it got number one. And maybe that's like a generational thing because Kylie's been going long enough now that she has completely separate generations who have grown up with different eras of her music. Like the word eras is thrown around a lot these days naming her names, but with Kylie she genuinely does have big eras and you know I've grown up on

her all early noughties stuff and then got into her tens and twenties stuff and obviously I knew the stuff from the 80s and the 90s but I had no idea that she did this and I really think most people of our generation would not know that she did this let alone that it got number one. I can't think of a more obscure number one single for a big artist than this, to be honest. Maybe a few of those McFly ones, like Please Please that we had in the noughties, but I'm going to have to see because there's really not much I can think of that's as forgotten as this that got number one for a big artist who still tours and still has greatest hits albums and is still on the radio every day. That's very strange but

I think it is best forgotten because this is very very low down the list of Carly singles. It's not horrendous, it's not actively offending me in the way that the other two songs have this week. It's nowhere near good enough though and I will always always go back to that version from Greece because I'm basic. That's me. Andy, little question for you. Yes.

We can relate this back to the 2000s. Can you name the act from the 2000s who covered this on their second album? Oh, god. Is it a solo artist? No, no, it is a group. It's not McFly? No, it isn't McFly. Oh, okay. I will stop doing the X Factor on people. So, track 15 of 16 on Sundown by S Club 8, as they became known, S Club Juniors, and there is a performance on ITV2, Greasemania, and

they do it as the pink ladies and the T-birds. They do it as a little kind of Grease tribute. Oh, there we go. Definitely not just me who's associated this entirely with Greasemania. It's funny though, because if you're you're gonna pick one of those background Dina songs from Greece, this is like the worst one. You've got those magic changes, which is a lovely song, and you've got, erm, what's it called? Rainin' on prom night as well, you've got Moonin'. Really nice songs. This is kind of the least of them, really. But anyway, I've talked for long enough, yes.

Ed, how do we feel about Kylie this time? Well, I mean, there's two different questions there. I love Kylie's later stuff as well. You know, Fever era, even, you know, Light Years stuff onwards. Great, great. I have a really, really good time with that. I wasn't aware of this either. Hadn't heard this.

Vaguely knew the original, I think. I've got to say that, interestingly, Andy, I didn't know the this either hadn't heard this vaguely knew the original I think I've got a so interestingly Andy I heard I didn't know that Shannon our version I didn't know they'd done it and I realized I've never seen Greece which you've never seen Greece I've never seen I've never seen Greece. I feel like that should be rectified I feel like I have and then I realized no I've seen music videos made from Greece It is shorter than the other two. That is important on this episode, I feel. This had a very specific vibe

that made me feel a little bit queasy because it reminded me of something and I couldn't have initially put my finger on what. Unfortunately, Rob, and probably quite pleasingly, this might not mean much to you, might mean a little more to Andy. Late 80s, Doctor Who, right? Oh, okay.

It's not, it has its moments. It's not regarded as the best era, should we say. And when Sylvester McCoy's tenure as the Doctor started, you know, John Nathan Turner was very much leaning into the whole, oh you know, cocktails on Mars, showbiz, stunt casting side of things. And there is a story in his first season called Delta and the Bannermen. It's something- Know where you're going with this. Know where you're going with this, yes.

Ow, I saw it once. Okay, I saw half of it once. It's something about an alien baby. The mother's on the run. It goes to Buttlins or something. Ken Dodd, he is the guest star. He plays like an intergalactic bus driver or something. It's got a doo-wop and rock and roll pastiche score done on this era of like midi synths. It tries to go for lighthearted camp camp, but it kind of it's got that grotty shot on a you know a

beach in Cardiff in the rain kind of vibe. I know there aren't really he's cardiff on the coast. I'm sorry It's on the coast. Oh goodness. No, have you not seen torchwood young man cardiff's on the coast? Yes Yeah, I have seen torchwood. Yeah I have seen Torchwood, young man. Cardiff's on the coast, yes. Yeah, I have seen Torchwood, yeah. But yeah, it goes for lightness and fluff and kind of, you know, a bit of campy, nudgy, winky fun. And it's just cold and mortmen as being kind of just formula. You know, not in the baby sense, but in the sense of things being senselessly reiterated because they worked.

And I don't necessarily think this is formulaic, just this particular example, because what it seems that they've done is they've taken something and re-scored it with sort of lifeless, charmless, turn-of-the-90s sound design. And it, yeah, you very much hinted at this Andy, that it just takes away the sense of fun and takes away the sense of space that's in the, I presume in the Shannon R version and in the original 50s version. But it's tough to talk about these, isn't it? Because all three of these do seem to suffer from similar sound design issues in a way. It all feels very flat. It all feels very clumped together. And you know, why use a saxophone when you can use this

that obviously sounds just as good? You know, it doesn't by the way, but yeah. That's interesting though. That's like, I just sorry to interrupt on that, but that's interesting that you describe it that way. Cause that's how I felt as well that it's like taken as a given that like oh this is the right way to produce the song let's just let's just do synths like it's taken as a given yeah weirdly it's very odd yeah I mean that's just like but a lot of acts we're doing it it's very it's very strange

listening to even some of the best music of 1990. It has this very distinctive and unfortunately, I think quite decrepit eighties plus sound to it where the tech had moved on, but the kind of aesthetic assumptions hadn't. And I mean, some of these might seem a bit sacrilegious, but even stuff like Violator by Depeche Mode, much beloved 1990 album, a lot of that sounds shockingly un-1990s, even though it was cutting edge at the time. It's where the synths have entered like their uncanny period, as I think I mentioned before, where it's just, it's... it's not fun anymore.

It's going into an unpleasant place that's not quite one thing and not quite the other. And there needs to be a bit more... you know, there needs to be a bit of a rethink. And rethinking isn't really what Stockhaken and Wortmann were doing at this time, I think. But hey... It's a shame as well, because if you had come into this and the first track we listen to tonight as Somebody who didn't know stockache in a waterman you might be forgiven for assuming That they are the nadir of popular music in the UK

And I don't really mean that in a hyperbolic sense either. It's just, it's terrible. It's not even got POP's energy and thrust to it. And it's a shame because they started off with some cool stuff and they were really, you know, quite zappy and punchy and they had a glitzy futuristic sound that just sounded a bit bigger than everyone else when they came in with things like you know Dead or Alive and you know even stuff like I Should Be So

Lucky and Rick Astley's early stuff it was a nice kind of balance between sort of the earlier sawtoothy sort of synth sound and something a bit more flashy almost a bit sort of more Hollywood about it but here it's just it just feels like this is like that in toothpaste form that's just being squeezed on a big long dreary line but you know it is short so it's probably the best song of this week. It's a really low bar. It's a case of the least worst this week I'm gonna be honest. You know, but I do think this is... it says something really that this is a cover from the 1950s and it hasn't aged nearly as badly as the other two. I think if these three songs aren't in our bottom five for the year I will be surprised I think when it comes to the

end of the year and we're looking back on 1990 this is just a crappy plasticky cover of a 30 year old song by this point it's quite depressing for me actually I do find it depressing like you were saying to Ed about the kind of characterless, charmless, soulless midi instrumentation. You can hear a young pop star fighting against the surroundings here and not getting much joy out of that endeavor. Kylie has seven number ones which is you know it's an impressive number but it's one of those where like if you were going to go and see an artist on tour and they had seven number ones you would expect them to perform all seven of those where like if you were going to go and see an artist on tour and they had seven number ones you would expect them to perform all seven of those number ones. I think Kylie will be

performing six of those number ones, maybe five if she can't get Jason Donovan as a special guest because that bad karaoke track that's playing in my head right now about this sounds exactly the same as this is just the cheap MIDI this makes me think of those deliberately crappy cheesy live bands they have playing in the background of various Simpsons episodes that are meant to signify like quiet decadence and decline of an era that no longer exists, attempting to recapture it in a way that is for novelty one-time experiences. You know those episodes where they go out to restaurants or that nightclub where it's New Year's Eve every night and then it's happy new year and

then they go, it must be wonderful to bring in the new year over and over please kill me and that's kind of what i think about this is the kind of stuff that was parodied and reduced of all life through the 70s and 80s when i'm hearing the doo-wop stuff all i can think of is um boom boom boom boom boom boom, it's Christmas. It just, it feels like we're there, but with worse midi stuff. This feels so kind of old hat, you know, I think we were sort of talking about this being formulaic for Stockade, Kinn and Waterman, not necessarily in the sense that like of their previous stuff but more just like their approach to the the pop charts like By this point. It's just a bit. Oh, this will do well like they ditched the high-energy

Stuff really fast like the high-energy stuff dead or alive early Rick Ashley Kylie. I agree and Even some of the stuff that they had really early on with like, what's the face, Hazel Dean isn't so terrible either, just sort of based on recent research for this. But this is now them attempt, I think they are deliberately attempting to just cheapen pop, turn it into gruel, something they can just load into a trough and just kind of wait for people to something they can just load into a trough and just kind of wait for people to gorge themselves on it. This opening week contains a lot of what I hate about the late 80s and early 90s in British pop. It is wall to wall stockache in Waterman. Rap is still this novelty joke thing that like, oh, them Americans are doing something funny. And then you have this serious lack of imagination. It's just covers and like this

and chintzy little doe-eyed butlins ballads and stuff. I just, it's just infecting the place at the moment. And the whole thing, the whole era from about sort of like 88 to 93 in my head, just kind of blurs into this like amorphous blob and stuff like this is at the center of it where as soon as this record starts I'm like well that's late 80s early 90s straight away and until down tempo and alternative rock and rap start being taken seriously this is like kind of how it is. Occasionally you'll get things rising to

the top which we'll get next week but there's very little in the charts at the moment that actually reflects what's happening. Maybe because channels like, you know, the internet and stuff don't really exist and you can't find underground artists on MySpace, you've got to go via the old traditional routes, but it feels like there's a massive disconnect at the moment with what's number one and what people are actually listening to and what's actually going on, what's developing. You're saying about crazy that comes out later this year. That feels like it's 10 years into its own future, crazy seal, whereas this is just very much like the 80s kind of accidentally dribbling into the 90s. I've looked back through all of our history on the podcast and I will make no, I won't, you know, do a cliffhanger on this. I'm pie-holing all three songs and it's the first time I've ever done that in the show's history where I've pie-holed every

song of an episode or three in a row. I just find all of them to be pretty atrocious for their own reasons and stock-hacking watermen take up two-thirds of it It's I mean would it be so bad if they didn't because I'm not even sure if the bass Songs especially in the case of the Kylie one are bad in themselves. It's just there's something particularly Drab about the sound of these. Yes the way that they're rendered definitely I will say that apart from agreeing to perform the song, there's not much I can really throw at Kylie here. She does her best.

But it's overwhelmingly tacky in a way that feels like, not like proudly tacky, just sort of like, oh, well, it'll do. Like you said, I like that image you painted before, Ed, of the tinsel on a dead tree. That's kind of how I feel at the moment. It's all kind of chintzy and there's a hollow memory there somewhere of something and it's not forming and this is all I can, and it's because this kind of stuff is kind of distracting me. I can't actually locate the memory of what this stuff is supposed to be evoking. It's, yeah, not a great week, not a great week, Andy.

I don't know if you want to let us know what you're pie-holing, not pie-holing, vaulting potentially. You may have had a massive change of heart in the last two minutes. No, I mean, I do, first and foremost foremost feel the need to reassure the listener that although all of what Robert said is true, it does get much better next week. Oh, so much better. It does get much, much better next week. Yes, so where should we start? Let's start with Band-Aid.

Do they know it's Christmas? Well, I know that it's going in the pie hole. Hang in tough? Well it's gonna be tough for it to escape the pie hole. Namely it won't. It's going into the pie hole. And as for tears on my pillow? Well dry your tears Miss Monogue because you're not going in to the pie hole. Oh just missed the pie hole. No I really don't think it's that bad I think it's just very of its time and it's very beige I really don't think it's that bad

so it's close but it squeaks out of the pie hole yeah. Okay so Ed for the first time do they know it's Christmas pie hole nowhere vault what are we saying? Lizzy tonight thank God it's us instead of you. That's so... Happy to put it with this site. It is. This is pie hole. I mean, I was hoping to find more positives in these, but it is just a big pile of crap.

Yeah. Hanging tough to paraphrase both Andy and Run DMC They may be tougher than yoghurt, but they are certainly not tougher than the pie hole. It's going in the pie hole and yeah if you know what I Just I do feel a little bit of kindness in my heart for the Kylie thing But a lot of it is bias because it is a good song at its heart. It is a good singer that they have managed to make it into a horrible, slightly depressing pile of crap is all the more egregious, I think, in many ways. So it's also going in

the pie hole. It gives me no joy to give this a hat-trick but hey. Wow so eight out of nine there. Yeah. Wow. Things will definitely be better next week there's at least things that are being considered for the vault in next week's episode so next week gets better it does get better we are glad to be back. We really are. It's been so great to get, you know, get this first episode done and out of the way and like into your podcast feeds and get back into your lives and have a bit of structure to our week again. But it's just not been a great start to the nineties but things get better things do things really do get better in like a week's time oh are we really talking about the 90s in the terms that things things can only get better yeah as soon as I said it I was like oh fuck I need to reverse out of this cul-de-sac but um so Ed thank you

very much for joining us for the first time. My pleasure. And Andy as well, thank you for coming back. I had nothing better to do. I can't really thank myself, that's conceited. Thank you Rob. Thank you Rob. Say a cheer for Rob everyone. You're so welcome.

And thank you everybody for waiting for a little bit while we dusted ourselves off of the 2000s and got in our TARDIS and went back to January 1990. So we will see you next week. Thank you very much for listening. Bye bye. Bye. Bye bye. No, no, no more, no less Do the chare-ling No, no, no more, no less No, no, no more, no less No, no, no more, no less No, no, no more, no less No, I don't want a mama No, no, no more, no less

No, I don't want a mama No, no, no more, no less No, no, no more, no less No, no, no more, no less, no more, no less, no more, no less, no more, no less, no more, no less, no more, no less, no more, no less, no more, no less, no more, no less, no more, no less, no more, no less, no more, no less, no more, no less, no more, no less, no more, no less, no more, no less, no more, no less, no more, no less, no more, no less, no more, no less, no more, no less, no more, no less, no more, no less, no more, no less, no less, no more, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less,