How Did This Get Made? - Hangman

Episode Date: August 11, 2023

PA_L, JA_ON, & J_NE play detective while breaking down the 2017 serial killer mystery Hangman starring Al Pacino, Karl Urban, & Brittany Snow. This is a movie where a killer teases his crimes via the children's game Hangman, yet the cops NOT ONCE TRY TO SOLVE THE HANGMAN PUZZLE! In their best Pacino southern accents, the HDTGM crew ask: Why does Brittany Snow have unlimited crime scene access? Why did the killer write in Latin? Was Al Pacino the eviction man? Would Bosch have solved this case instantly?! The only thing that makes sense in this movie is June's analysis of Brittany Snow's hair... put a bun on 'er! Go to www.hdtgm.com for tour dates, merch, and more.Follow Paul on Letterboxd: letterboxd.com/paulscheer/HDTGM Discord: discord.gg/hdtgmPaul’s Discord: discord.gg/paulscheerCheck out Paul and Rob Huebel live on Twitch (www.twitch.tv/friendzone) every Thursday 8-10pm ESTSubscribe to The Deep Dive with Jessica St. Clair and June Diane Raphael here: listen.earwolf.com/deepdiveSubscribe to Unspooled with Paul and Amy Nicholson here: listen.earwolf.com/unspooledCheck out The Jane Club over at www.janeclub.comCheck out new HDTGM merch over at www.teepublic.com/stores/hdtgm Where to find Jason, June & Paul:@PaulScheer on Instagram & Twitter@Junediane on IG and @MsJuneDiane on TwitterJason is not on Twitter

It's a goddamn children's game! Play bio-killer. We saw Hangman, so you know what that means. Now is time for... Out of this game, we've got to have a good time, so the pace of failure not just being a hater, could you know you won't get out of this game? Let's fall in the mediocrity of self-barrage.

Perhaps we'll find the answer to the question how did this get made? Hello people of Earth, and welcome to out of this get made. I'm your host, all John Sheer and this is the podcast where we talk about movies that are so bad they are actually great better than great. They are fantastic and this is no exception. The 2017 film Hangman starring Al Pacino the ninth time he has played a cop. It's the lowest ranking cop movie of his on Rotten Tomatoes with below 40%. The movie is simple, there is a serial killer out there who is killing people and also leaving clues to a game of Hangman. But who is it? Does make a difference?

It won't be something you can figure out here to break down the movie, Omar Tukos, Jason Manzoukis, and June Diane Rafeel. How are you both? I'll be honest, Paul. Yeah. Getting it took you almost as long as it took me to get through this movie,

to get through the intro for this movie. I'm sure it will be edited perfectly, but this this movie was as impenetrable as it was to summarize for you. I mean, this is an odd movie because I haven't found myself laughing out loud as much in a movie that we've watched for this show, then this film, but at the same time, when you get to the last 40 minutes, you're like, what? Look, I invested all of this for this. It's, it's so wild. But I mean, I did enjoy the first hour. I'm loving it. I'm loving it. Oh, you're like going to McDonald's. Yeah, yeah.

June, are you okay? You know what? Here's what I'll say. I want to start with positive, actually, because there is a lot I really did, like much like Paul, I mean, we were laughing. We were truly having some L-O-Ls. And I've never heard of this. When did this movie come out? I don't know. This is one of those movies that doesn't exist.

This, I feel like, is the kind of movie that they make for foreign sales explicitly. This is, you know, this is un, when you say it's impenetrable, it's exactly right. This movie is unknowable and you can't, it doesn't ever happen. It doesn't, it's not a movie. It doesn't stick with you at all. It doesn't ever happen. It doesn't, it's not a movie. It doesn't stick with you at all. It doesn't stay. The actors are not there in it. The artwork is not, it's just not, it's not a, it's not a, it's not a, it's not a real

movie. It's not a real movie. If you told me, like June said, like AI, it was assembled and cobbled together from the pieces of other movies, it would make sense why it doesn't add up because- Can I say one thing? Can I say one thing? Sure. So there's a, is there a lot that happens as movie who knows?

But we'll get into all of it. But one of the things that I was so confounded by was the way this movie was shot because there are multiple moments where important action is happening. And I mean like someone's getting, you know, we're revealing the killer or someone's stabbed or someone got away. And I simply couldn't see they didn't ever show. So dark. It's so dark. And I kept on rewinding me too. I did exact, I kept rewinding to see, did they just reveal something I'm supposed to pick up on? And every time.

Cutting to reaction shots, but I can't see what we are all, everybody else has seen. You can't see it. And even if you did, it wouldn't make sense because we didn't know that information beforehand. It's not like a twist. Yes, if they had shown us anything, it's there. It's the movie is trying to create suspense, trying to create all these things that it is not itself bringing about. So by teasing you, by, you know, like the reality is correct me if I'm wrong.

But when we see who the killer is, it's not anybody we've ever met in the past. Correct? Nope. No, is it anyone that has been referenced? But Paul, we did meet that person in the first scene. No, we met somebody else. The person getting out of that truck was not him. Was it? It was. Yes.

Oh, that's the only connection though. That's the only connection though. And we don't truck was not him. Was it? Yes, that's the only connection though. That's the only connection though. And we don't know anything about him that helps. But I mean, like we haven't seen, he's not one of the cops, he's not one of the, by the way, I would have been okay with that. So that man who side swipes Al Pacino in the beginning, that's him and he did it on purpose.

That's the killer and that's where we find that out because he was in jail for nine months. I guess for that side swipe, which seems like a pretty heavy sentence. Was the goal to just drive that day and side swipe Al Pacino while he sits outside of a bar so that this whole plan can be set in motion? Because here's the other thing that occurred to me

at the end of the movie. If you're gonna set up a movie, wherein the game of Hangman is like the serial killer's calling card, right? That's like, then we've got a Hangman murderer. We've got like the press would be on this. We've got like a whole thing, and the whole ethos of it would be trying

to figure out what's the word. They never try. They never engage in trying to solve the puzzle. Not only that, but you would think that we have to solve the crime before he solves the before, rather all the letters are revealed. And in fact, they don't. The guy wins. The serial killer wins because by the time all the letters are revealed. And in fact, they don't. The guy wins, the serial killer wins because by the time all the letters are filled in, he's killed everybody. Okay, and for someone, I just have you both down them paw on here, we're gonna say,

but for someone like me, a winner of Celebrity Will Affortune. Oh my gosh. I'm also a winner of Celebrity Will Affortune. Did you win 160,000 dollars? I didn't win that much. I didn't think so. So as a winner of Celebr will afford to go. Did you win 160,000 dollars? I didn't win that much. I didn't think so. So as a winner of celebrity will afford to

$160,000 for wonderful organization called Oshiana. They protect and restore the world's oceans. I won about 80,000 dollars, okay. So I guess the one double. So as a winner, once I realized hangman, we get to figure out a word puzzle. I'm ready. I am ready. Give me a couple letters. If I'm in the Monroe police force, I'm calling in Vanna White. I'm

calling in June, Diane, recall, I'm calling in Hangman experts. Yes. Hangman experts. It's not even a long phrase. It's one word. And also, there's no attempt. So they start figuring out these clues, but it's like at a certain point, like just throw some words on the table. Well, wait, but June, we meet Al Pacino, or we meet him a year later, in a car, doing crosswords in Latin,

which by the way makes no fucking sense. Where do you get those? So, are the questions in Latin, which by the way makes no fucking sense. So is the, are the questions in Latin? He can't be failing in the answers. He can't be translating. Well, that, that was my whole, well, that was my whole thought. It's a clearly not, because he's getting like a consumer crossword. It looks like a book that you would buy at the airport.

That's what he's doing. And he's like, oh, you're doing it in Latin. It's like, I'm always an altaboy. But you couldn't, it wouldn't work. But yet they go so far to get you to, not only is he good at crosswords, but he doesn't mean Latin. And then this whole movie is a crossword in Latin.

And he only figures it out here at the end. Every letter is present, but the last one. I'm I. I'm I. I was I was the I was the I. I was the I. But here's the thing. They're bad. They're bad cops.

He knew it. He already drew the line of the eviction. But he didn't it. This is my problem with the serial killer. Aside from obviously what the fact that he's killing people, but he doesn't have Al Pacino did not evict him as a child. Yes, he did. Wait, what?

That was the flashback. He know. What was the, what's the Latin word mean? Eviction, eviction, it's just eviction. It's just eviction. But Al Pacino is just a cop. I thought he was just a cop who found he evicted him? Yeah, listen, listen to this clip.

I remember the last time I saw you, you were just up in here. Just a little boy. About five or six years old. I was a cop. I was doing my job. I don a cop. I was doing my job. I don't joke on you. When that day was open, I lost my hands. I did. I know I did. And I know now that was a mistake.

It was a tragic mistake. Jimmy, I remember it was the lines looking at me as if I was the one who killed you fall. But I didn't do it. He hung himself. I was dead. I was there witnessing that trauma. You know what fuck you? Paul, this clip didn't explain it, my friends. Well, if you listen on, he was, he was listening to this clip. He was upset that he didn't take care of him in like the home for wayward children, but that's yes, but he doesn't make him an eviction. It doesn't make him a fiction man. Yeah, that's the so he did.

He did a victim. Okay, I'm going to kill you nine people so he can spell out eviction. Well, who do you get more upset with the repo man or the company like all state who's repriscing your car? The repo man, you don't get mad at all state all state. But he wasn't evicting them. He wasn't the repo man. What was he just found the body though?

He was like, what do I do? What Paul is saying Jason is that Al Pacino, young Al Pacino, shows up to evict them and happens to find a body. Which is, I do not think is the case. He's worked out with that. Don't know. Please put, don't police put a Viction notices on doors? landlords do.

Well, I don't think, but wait, Paul, are you saying that Pacino is there in an official police for duty to evict you? Yes. What are you saying? Oh, so that's why, okay, if that is the case, it is not. It's not in the movie. I don't think. Now, that's a leap. Okay, so that's why okay, if that is the case, it is not it's not in the movie. I don't think now

Okay, so here is a leap that only only law enforcement officers Can evict a tenant after they have a court order so Yes, you are it's yes, maybe that is maybe that is what they're going for but it's it's really not They like explicitly laid out that way in the movie. Most of you technically, the landlord is the story. We don't know any of this story of the boy and the majority of this movie happens way before we check in. The who done it of this movie is so unsatisfying.

Oh, God, because when it is finally revealed and we don't know who this person is and when his motivations are revealed We don't understand nor have we been privy to those so it's unsatisfying in every Thriller mystery. Well, let me go. Let me go back to the first question I wrote down when I watch this movie And I want to ask this and not it's gonna come across And I want to ask this and not, it's going to come across snarky, but I want you to both listen to it in a way that I meant it. Does Al Pacino need the money? Or does he actually like this part? Because I want to get to the bottom of that.

Like Al Pacino doesn't seem to need the money, so he must have read this and felt, yeah, this is for me. I disagree a little, only because, not that I disagree, but I think, cause Al Pacino, I think, does two of these a year. Like this is like John Malkovich is doing this, Bruce Willis until his retirement was doing this. There's a lot of actors who are in movies that are like this,

that are like police procedural that are direct to foreign markets. Mostly they sell big because these names, these people are names, they sell big foreign. And so they can get paychecks for very little work. You know, this movie costs nothing. I mean, he is on screen a lot. And I will say that he's not sleepwalking through it.

Right? He's making choices. A lot of choices. Sometimes he looks sleepy. I do have my second question was, when did Al Pacino become Southern? I know we just accept it now, but this is. First of all, where is Monroe? Where is Monroe? It's like, yes.

No, Lance, I have no idea. It looks like a big city, and I wrote, where is he? And then they're talking like you retired from the FBI to go back to your hometown, Monroe, where? And yes, for sure, Pacino sounds like he's in the bio. But Pacino sounds like he's in the bio. Pacino sounds like he's in a looney tunes cartoon. He sounds like fog horn like we should put them together. Who now?

Let me tell you, when I go over here, I tell you FDA don't put that stuff in that man. I'm like, what is going on? I couldn't make heads or tails of his accent at all. He's giving him his name. And it came in with, who, who, who, who, that stuff. Except it's definitely got a bayou lilt to it. What is this gonna be?

I think that Pacino was like, I like the script. Will you let me do it if I can wear my own scarves? And they were like, yeah, you can wear scarves. And he was like, it did feel like he was dressed, like he didn't go through wardrobe. He's like, oh, just wear what I'm wearing. Like that's it, because he does, Pacino now is an interesting character.

I watched him do a cooking segment with the guy who has donkey sauce, who has a guy theory, like he's like, oh, I love you. Oh, wow. Yeah, so he's like, Pacino's getting out there. I guess my question is though, it's just a money gig, but it does look like he's not doing the money gigs away. Other people are doing the money gigs.

Like he is on set. Looks like night shoots because every player to enter is completely dark. There's never a light on anywhere. There's they don't have flashlights. They're police officers who enter pig factories, private homes in the middle of the night with no flashlights. Why?

They are bad at their jobs. Every step of the way they are behind. The person who breaks the most clues is Brittany Snow who is an investigator who is given unprecedented access to murder scenes and cases and everything for reasons that I don't know. You're so right, though. She's given this unprecedented access,

but I said to Paul, I was like, I understand when people, when reporters go on a ride along, and I get, okay, the cops want to knew, you know, they want this profile to kind of soften their image or whatever, whatever she convinced Captain to let her in. But, okay, the mayor did do this. But I'm like, that's having right along status is one thing. I have never heard of a reporter walking into

an active crime scene. Taking pictures. Taking pictures. Taking cell phone pictures, not putting on gloves, not putting on booties. No, and I'm like, this is, they'll never be able to try a case. Had the serial killer survived, I believe he would have gotten off because with like any sort of decent defense journey,

they're gonna be like, why was this random civilian walking around these crime scenes? Yeah, absolutely. I also wanna know about her reporting style because she seems to report or record a lot on her iPhone, but doing it at one question at a time. Like she's in a ride along. You see her take out her phone, but doing it at one question at a time. Like, she's in a ride along. You see her take out her phone, hit record and go,

tell me, what about this? He answers, she hits stop and puts it away. One question at a time interview. Like, I find that to be a very... And he's like, sure. She says, can I record you now? She put like on camera and he's like, sure. She says, can I record you now? And like on camera and he's like, yeah, sure, okay. Like what?

No. And he's behind his desk, by the way, that police station look like a high class architectural office. It's like, that was like a loft. It was like a downtown loft. My favorite detail about that police station was Oh, this one's never part. There's one shot where behind Britney Snow, as she's looking around the office,

there are not one, but two pictures of a sunset, same picture. Yes. And then Paul, you saw this, so pointed out to Jason, did you see that? No. Then you sort of move from Britney to him, or I think you see those sunsets

when she's looking around and happens to find the file about his wife. But then when that scene where he's talking to Britain, he's known for the first time behind him is the same picture of a sunset. That postcard. I thought it was a postcard. It's not a postcard. It's it's it's it's photo. Sunsets and you will see the sun sets in every picture. Maybe it's maybe it's metaphoric. Like this is the sunset of Al Pacino's career, not as an actor, but as cop career.

I don't know, but also when you just talked about her getting that file, she pulls out that file, which is like right on top, like as if Carla been every day is like, all right, let me go back to looking at your first pictures of my wife, my dead wife, my murdered dead wife. She looks at that for no more than seven and a half seconds

and solves the case. She's like, oh, hang man. She is, she is such a better police officer in terms of, she's getting clues, figuring stuff out, putting connections together in a way that they are a failure, Carl Urban and Al Pacino, the number of times Al Pacino like hits himself and is like, I should have known, I should have known, I should have known, I don't know. That's the one that put chief in the house in the drug driver of the put chief in the hospital.

He's like, he's celebrating. Oh, my favorite line was when he says, you know how many people I told their loved ones died gruesomely. Crazy line. Just like, like, don't worry about that. I got that under control. I'll tell anyone how their love one was murdered. But it's like,

so here's what I think they were going for. And I wonder if this was an alpuchino pass on the script because what I think the story might have been was that he's such a kind of detached and inhumane cop and so not attached to the work. So not attached to what, you know, this sort of humanity of it. Like a humanity of it? Yeah. And the situations he's in and the victims that that moment really should land at the

end where he realizes like a fiction like this guy. I didn't check in on him I didn't care just do a much job right but but we know because we've watched him like this woman you know urban's wife is gonna wanted him to walk her down the aisle like we see him as a quite caring man so it doesn't make a lick of sense this is the arc of the character that he learned to care,

but I would argue that he cares so much, that he seems to be doing police work in the beginning, surveilling the bar, right? Please watch it. I couldn't, the donut shop, I couldn't figure out, but I couldn't figure out, am I supposed to be watching Pacino's movie, Carl Urban's movie, like, who is the story of this?

Who is the story about the medical examiner? Oh, the medical examiner should be fired. The medical examiner should be fired. She's having watched so much law in order. She doesn't know anything. What time do you think that it died? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

What? How about this? Where they literally take a watch and they go, does that for Prince? Yeah. No, that's not her job. Nor would the watch have made it this far. Like they have free,

they could dab her in there. They wouldn't bring, like, wouldn't just be like, and look around here and see what you got. Like, she's always given her opinion, they died by hanging. I will easily appreciate it that actress, because she was giving us a lot. And I, there, okay, so there's two performances that I want to call out. She was absolutely her hairie dealer.

Hairie. She was excited. She was nervous. I felt like, I've never seen someone's energy bubbling up on screen like that where she was doing an autopsy It was full on I mean, I don't know. I mean it's it's go crazy. It's crazy Ponce seem to be broken before before she'd been the hospital a couple times like she was so struck By her own work, which I would imagine at a certain point,

you become a little detached from, but she was so thrown by every piece of it. Which would almost make you think like, oh, is this a small town? They've never seen anything like this. But I don't think that's the case. No, I agree. It's not the case.

They're in a big town. It's more like Gothamass. She's acting as though I've never seen anything like this. This is crazy. I'm like out of my element. Whereas what they're coming to her for and she's hugging Pacino. Oh my God, I missed you. You're supposed to be fishing blah, blah, blah.

And he's like, what do we got? And this should be old school Ratatat. Let me drill it down for you. Here's the info, this should be an exposition dump. And basically every question they have for her, the expert, she's like, I don't know. I'll be honest. I don't know.

It's good to have you. I was good as my, meanwhile, there's a random reporter standing in the room too. I'm like, isn't this a sterile environment? I also think, by the way, just to go back to that Al Pacino hugging her, like clearly Pacinos been retired for a little bit, because I think you tell me when he got his car side-swiped, he was kind of in the same spot during the crosswords.

So was he retired at that point? I think so, right? Yeah. Maybe about a year. Oh, no, he wasn't. Oh, no, he was active, okay. So he was on the radio. He was listening to the radio.

Okay, so I love that, like, just to go to with Jun saying, like a cop who doesn't care, he hugs everyone in that precinct. Like the captain loves him. Like, and I think that that's Pacino as Al Pacino, like, come here, he's the man. Everybody's gotta love it. Everybody's gotta love me. Can I tell you?

I want to tell you. There's another performance in this picture that is remarkable. It is absolutely outstanding. And I really want to. Oh, yes, please. I really want to. I know you're going to say.

Call out the actor who plays the priest. Oh, yeah. Who has to describe. And I almost want to watch the scene again because it was so well done. First of all, moment he's on screen, I was just taken with him. I was like, oh, everybody else is acting

and this man is just existing. And I just thought he was so fucking good. But he has to tell a tale about how someone took his blood in the middle of the night in a while. Okay. This is the former criminal turn priest that they're talking to. You don't know her? Well, you can have to some explain in there because your blood was in her apartment.

My blood in her body. I don body, I don't have it. And I gotta believe this. Frankly, I still don't understand it myself. But a couple months ago, I woke up in the middle of the night. Someone standing over me. A man. And I struggled, but he put something over my face. And eventually I passed out.

When I woke up, there was blood coming out of my arm. I mean, it was dripping down my arm. Like, I got shot or something. So OK, so you're telling us that a guy broke into your house and stole your blood? That's the story you're telling? That's, I told you, I told you you wasn't a lady. This ring's a bell to me.

It's kind of a coincidence when you think of it. Last Thursday, I don't know if I told you. I woke up in the middle of the night and ad for some reason. I had a pink tutu on. I'm a serious fuzzy feather sticking out of my ass. The real talk, I have a real question here. Sure. What, what, why did the killer take his blood? And why wasn't that ever woven into the rest of that?

Why isn't that? I'm like a real question here. The motives of the killer make no sense. So he stole the blood from a priest. A little bit of it. Because he's so inconsequited. He could punch him around. he could scream and run. He's, he could, he could scream and run.

Yeah. And the priest is like, you're gonna like this. This is actually pretty funny. When the priest's delivery of this information, they're like, how could I, we find your blood? And he's like, okay, you're not gonna believe this, but I do walk up in the middle of the night. But I did believe it.

He told the truth. I believe it too. But they should have, I do believe you, priest, like I am, I did believe it. He killed that. He killed that. I do believe you, Breeze. Like, I am why, but they're not curious as to, they don't even put that up as part of the killer's, like, mo. Because if you're a serial killer,

I imagine that you actually do want credit for your work. Yes, this is not seven. Seven, I get it. I get it. Zodiac, I get it. Like this is just this, I feel like June, your statement earlier in the podcast that this feels as though it was done by AI is absolutely right because I feel like it's pulled a lot of the aesthetic choices from other things, but none of the story elements. So the story doesn't add up at all,

but all of the stuff that's been, yes, all the trappings, all the tropes are there. Because here's the thing, if you take a step back, you have a cop who has a murdered wife who was killed in a grizzly way. You have people being killed in a grizzly way, being a part of a game of hangman. You have a reporter who also had a run in with

a criminal where the police saved her. And she has a permanent scar like these people are getting scarred because they're getting the letters written on their body. Then you have a police officer who is retired, but we don't really, he seems great. It doesn't seem like he was rich. Is this all, is the whole, is the serial killers and forgive me. I know we're spending all of this just really trying to parse the plot. What else can we do?

What else can we do? Exactly. Is the serial killer's motivation just to get back at Pacino, AKA eviction man. By the way, that is the twist, isn't it? That I think. And as a result, Carl Urban and Brittany Snow are innocent bystanders, right? No, because Carl Urban's wife was the first victim number one.

But is that because she know loved her? Is that because she know loved that? No, I think what happened was the first person who was killed. Carl Urban's wife, was killed by that man, where they go to his house and he's already killed himself. And then this guy picked up the torch. Could that be part of it?

What? Because Carl Urban's wife was killed. He didn't finish the job. I think that he's a copycat. I think he is, right? I thought that that was part of the twist. Was that because I think there is a twist, but I do agree with you that there's two killers out there.

Whoa. There's definitely two because there's art killer who was the little boy and is now, you know, current date serial killer. Yes. However, I do, and he was the one who did the V on Carl Urban's, but I believe that we might pan out in that scene, that little boy scene

to find that he has a twin. Whoa. Wait, when are we gonna do that? In the sequel. In the sequel as one. When what? Well, the sequel is In the sequel as one. What? Well, the sequel is happening. I mean, that's what I'm saying,

because we don't get to know, we, there is another, there is another hangman, and he is clearly now, I think what might have happened is his, what the sequel will be, is that that boy was adopted by a wealthy couple and like went on to this, like has a really prestigious couple.

Right, there has to be another person. A nature nurture scenario? Yeah, definitely. All right, so, all right, so I guess what we're saying is this, if we were to take the plot at face value, what we saw on the screen, what we were to understand. That's a hard, okay. That's gonna be hard. If we were to take what we, what we saw on the screen. What we were to understand. That's really hard. That's really hard.

If we were to take what we, what the material on the screen and the word said, dictated, Al Pacino was a part of the eviction of this young boy because his father didn't pay the rent, the father killed himself, and then the young boy was mad that Al Pacino never checked in on him. So Al Pacino was the first. It's a crazy thing to be mad at.

I know. That's not worth holding on to and killing nine people as a result. No, or however, man. Well, the first I want to hear the rest of this Paul, but why would a child? If a police officer expect a cop to take care of maybe, and I'll give you maybe a five-year-old in grief and mental duress makes a logical leap that doesn't make sense. But why isn't an adult?

Why don't you not look at the situation and be like, oh, that police officer was not the person who did this. You know, here's what I'll say that maybe answers this. I think you talked earlier about Al Pacino doing a pass on the script. I think Al Pacino might have toned down his character because what would make this all make sense is simply this. He goes to the boy, don't worry, I'll take care of you. I'll look at, like he needed to promise him, you know what,

I know your dad's not here, but I'll be here for you forever. You know, like, I say, I say, I say, I say, is that, is that your daddy up there? He's like a full blown Southern, like, general. By the way, just so we know Monroe Monroe Georgia is where it takes place. Oh Interesting. Wait, okay, Monroe Georgia. So we are all urban is from the South as well. Everybody in this movie is from the South Well, yeah, cuz it's Britney Spears is home to sorry. It's Britney Murphy. Ah Britney snow's hometown Spears Murphy Spears Murphy snow

That's a ranking of Britney. Okay. By the way, I think that should run. The Monroe, Georgia 15, 15 people, 15 people. That makes sense for a while. A lot of these scenes were so empty. I was like, how did I tell you work at the pig factory? Go ahead. Okay. My favorite, my favorite, one of my favorite moments,

I can't even have some whole raps, is after we're in that church, and Al Pacino gets knocked over. Although again, I had to rewind that scene because I didn't see the impact of him being knocked over. So I was like, what just happened? Well, it's also shot so bizarrely, being in order to cover the stunt double.

I could not for the life of me figure out the geography of what the fuck I was watching. Yep. So I, but he gets knocked over by a man who's hanging from a maybe a crucifix or the ceiling and there's a pick head on that man. And then, and then he gets knocked over and then later on, an autopsy is being done by our favorite medical examiner, who's just as flamixed, the thing that I love so much is that there's the body, and then just to the side, there's a table with the pig head on it. Yeah.

Wait, by the way, I, and then Pacino's like, you know what, all these pig heads have an ID number. I know, I know that. By the way, by the way, I say, I say, I say, when I grew up in the barn, you know, I knew

know what I mean, listen to me. Listen to me. I'm gonna also say that the FDA is not getting up and meet. That would be the US DA, right? FDA is more like packaged foods. Like the you like when you get me to like, I wouldn't be surprised if Chad G.P.T. wrote this. when you get me to like I wouldn't be surprised if Chad G P T wrote this.

All right, but can we go back to the pickhead scene because yes, I don't want to skip over my favorite part, which is Al Pacino goes down. Oh, my back, which can you don't even really see. And everyone stops like they let the bad guy get away. It's like, because in a movie would be like, and this is the AI of it all, he'd be shot. And they've, oh no, we got to put pressure on the wound. He's like, my back. Like, it was just a little sore. And they repeatedly, yeah, they repeatedly are pointing a gun at the murderer and don't shoot multiple times. Multiple times they have the guy in their sights and they do not shoot that person.

And I just don't understand, I don't get it. Like this feels like antithetical to what their whole job is. Well, I think it's, but by the way, good work on them as police officers are not going to just shoot first that person there. They're, they're, they're, they're going to get the evidence. They have to figure out the evidence first you know. Uh, but I did like when Britney snow went pigs, pigs cops. Yeah, cops are peeing taunting you.

Yeah, taunting you. No shit. Did anyone else have trouble when when okay, so there's later on I did later on there's, I did. Later on, there's the captain is one of our victims and she we're in her house. I was trying to figure out, we're trying to find the killer. And there's another cop who's in the house who's left for dead on the inner bath tub. And we've realized that our killers walked out inop closed. And this was another way on a dirt bike. Where the reason why we realized this is because

Karla would turn around and look so for the toilet bowl and seize like a cup belt there. I looked at that. I don't know if anyone else did. I had to stare at it. I wound up three times to figure out what am I looking at? At a point I thought I was looking down a drain or I threw a window. I was like, what am I, I can't see what this is.

None of the clues are clues. They were giving me things that were feeling as though, oh, this is important. But then they weren't giving me things that clearly were important. Like, again, the hangman game. But when they never sat in a conference room and said, what might this be and how might that inform the crime spree that we are every 24 hours someone is murdered? I'm not. And that only ever are the three of them.

You would think the entire city would be shut down. Here's the thing. I also want to bring up just just to hit this back for one more second too. When we see evidence, people sometimes don't name it as well. Like when Brittany Snow looked at that thing that the woman had on the porch, she's like, what was that? What was that? What was that?

I didn't know what I was looking at. What was in the edge? What was that? Oh, I do know what that is. What was it? It was that? What was that? What was in the action? What was that? Oh, I do know what that is. What was it? It was the same. Okay, so that, when they go to that house, it's to find Joey, the guy who was on a date with the woman who the first victim, right?

Right. But what they realize is the woman is Joey, not the man. And they realize that because Brittany Snow notices in her asterisk the same dark cigarettes that were in the asterisk at the murdered woman's home. So that that woman must have been there. Not the guy inside. Why did that woman run? She fairies viewers through the chair. Because she doesn't know the woman is dead. But it's again, why is she running? Because she's scared because she doesn't know the woman is dead, but it's again, why is she running? Because she got scared because she's a

for drug charge or abuse. Well, both, maybe. And then, and then what my favorite thing, this might be my favorite thing in movies again, with like the AI element, a person running, mid-run from a cop going, I didn't do anything, I didn't do anything. It's like, I get like what's the cusser on, but to do it mid-run, to do it mid-run, like you'd be like,

oh, okay, sorry. And then, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Yeah. That's like an improv scene. I didn't do anything. Yeah. You were actively running away. Like this is, this movie is, I'm gonna say, 95% to being a naked gun movie.

Like, you could pivot Al Pacino into being Leslie Neilsen right now in the world with minimal effort. Like he's already basically there. You, he Al Pacino should start making Leslie Nielsen style A-Brother's. Oh my gosh. Yes. Instead of it being Liam Neeson, who I know it is,

it should be Al Pacino, which would be delightful. Oh, him just to, I mean, we know that he can do it because of Dunk of Chino from the Jack and Joe movie. He can do comedy. Oh, he can do it because of Dunkichino from the Jack and Joe movie. He's he can do comedy. Oh, he can do it. He would kill and it's like because that's where this movie is. This movie is almost a parody of a bad Al Pacino cop movie. And there's so many things said that make no sense throughout that could be funny or jokes.

Like when they're trying to find the janitor in the church, the priest says, oh, he cleans whenever he can. It's like, it's not like that would be something you would say to somebody who has a hobby. It's not like, oh, yeah, he paints whenever he gets a free moment. It's like this guy like, he's a janitor. He loves whenever he gets a chance to clean. It's two in the morning, four in the morning. It's clean. I mean, he's gonna. Well, you know, it's a church in I mean, he's gonna, you know, it's a church in small town, Georgia. So we're packed all day. So he can only clean from two to six a.m. Because we're just so busy here at the church in Monroe, Georgia.

You know, come on. But whatever he can, he loves it. He loves it so much. Oh my God. But what I don't understand about the serial killer is why he's choosing certain victims. And some of them are related to our people, some of them aren't. Some of them aren't. And Joey took his, Joey does end up getting murdered later on. Correct? Why? Yes. And the reason that Pacino gives is he is punishing us for saving the chief because they saved Sarah Shahi. And as a result, that means that he's got to kill someone else now. And so he kills Joey.

They're tears. They don't know Joey. I know, but that's what's, that's again, what's so confusing. I'm at the, by the end of the movie, I don't understand the killers, M.O. at all. In a world that we live in that is so obsessed with true crime and serial killers and documenting and documentaries and podcasts about all this stuff, this is so slap-dash, this is so like not compelling case work

that I'm like, why do they think we'll just go along with this? None of this is satisfying. None of this is, there's no aha moments. I'm not ahead of the movie ever. You can't, none of it. You can't have the killer be someone who is not introduced or even spoken of. Like, again, go back to a scene and have Al Pacino be like,

I made some mistakes in my career. I left things fall through the cracks. He never says that. Like, you know, at any point, like we, I think that we're also trying to figure out who murdered Carl Urban's wife. And when Carl Urban is confronted with the most logical explanation,

this is the guy. There's a V on your wife's chest. He's like, no, no, it's not as I'm all, it's not, it's like, why wouldn't you choose to believe it? It would, you are looking for, you were looking for, you were an FBI agent. You were an FBI agent. Do your case work. Do you do diligent? But this is a man who is looking for connections who refuses the connection. Well, he isn't. He's like, he actively, okay, so here's another possible twist. And I know I said this to you, Paul,

while we were watching it, I said, Urban's the killer and Paul was like, no! But there's something very strange to me about the way he's treating his wife's death. Because even later on, one, Al Pacino is like, again, trying to sort of reopen the investigation and also reopen it. It's only been a year.

Why is this a cold case? That I don't know if it's, has it only been a year since his wife was killed? Yeah. Oh, okay. Yeah, because it was nine months when the killer was in jail. Yeah, it's been a year.

But. By the way, then, because I remember when Carl Urban's on the phone with someone, he's like, I'm just, I guess I'm just trying to figure out where my, what happened to my wife and hangs up frustrated. So, Carl Urbans is clearly some,

who's he talking to? I don't know, but then when she brings it back up, he's like, oh, what do you wanna put a whole team on it? You wanna put a team on it? It's like, well, we're not. Which way do you want it, man? Which way do you want it? Do you wanna figure this out?

Or do you want it to go away? His wife was killed in a ritualistic brutal murder. It wasn't like a hit and run. Like I think what you, what you're led to believe in the beginning was, it was like a hit and run. It was like a accident. But then when you reveal how she was killed,

literally like slashed up in their home, you would be like, yeah, I think we should maybe go a little deeper on this one. But also remember when he's talking about his wife's murder, he says, you know, Pacino asks him what happened. And he said, you know, she called me up and she said to come over that we should try and work things out. So they were like broken up or separated or whatever.

Yeah, he was too involved in this job. And it very much seemed to me like the murder was going to be very wrapped up in Carl Urban's character and somehow related to that storyline. And it was just coincidence. Well, no, no, no, I know. Here's what I think back to my theory of if we just take what is written Al Pacino abandons a boy the boy grows up he's like I want to take out crazy to say I want to when he didn't have any response well let me just let's just let's just go into the idea

I'm sorry June only in his powers as eviction man which by the way I got to say the true Latin is just eviction. It is not a fiction man. It is a true Latin. It's just, but I want to, I do want any merch from the show to say a fiction man. A fiction man. A fiction man. Just a shirt that says that in Latin.

Scott's a big fiction man and I didn't know that I thought of a metaphor. Yeah, Scott in the chat said, I'm a fiction man and he's smarter than us. So I believe it. All right. He evicts this boy. The boy decides he's going to take revenge on Al Pacino by doing this game of hangman, which as Al Pacino says,

celebrates his dad's hanging, which I don't think is the right term to celebrate, recreates might be the better word, but celebrates, uh, the dad's hanging. And the first clue was going to be doing that to his partner's wife. And I think that the original plan was to get people all around because the cop, the,

the head of the police precinct is another person that is attacked. I think it was all going to be people around out between a two and to get max. all around because the cop, the head of the police precinct is another person that is attacked. I think it was all going to be people around Al Pacino to get Max on damn it. Okay. The janitor, the janitor was, it wasn't the janitor's someone that Al Pacino had also put in jail or something? Yes. I think that that, I'm going to just say yes to that because I don't remember it.

But I will say that that was the original plan. I think the original plan was to go and get people all around Alpuchino's life, but because Alpuchino has no real life anymore with any other people that he likes. They have to go to other people. There's not a niece. There's not a cousin. There's not a, I mean, just all felt so. None of it is satisfying.

Well, but that's the other thing. None of it is satisfying at all. I agree, Paul. You might very well be right, but it it is satisfying. Well, but that's the other thing. You just have to say something. You just have to say satisfying at all. I agree, Paul, you might very well be right, but it's not satisfying. No, none of these people, none of these clues, clicking into place, give us any of the thrills of silence of the lambs. Give us any of the thrills of,

because we're never in the mindset of the villain. I totally agree. I wasn't saying that I was making sense. I was saying that I think that that's the idea. Oh, no, no, no. But I will say that. I'm so mad at you, Paul. I'm just so mad at you, Paul. I guess it's like, but I can't figure it out.

Paul, why did you write this movie? Well, look, I gotta tell you, I made a lot of money on it. Here's the thing, you could make it so much more compact and better by having that priest. Well, well, well, David Green. I thought I put you away years ago and he's like, well, I'm out. Now I'm a priest. Well, I don't know. I don't believe in now and I won't believe in it.

Like you could have just drawn connections so easily. Every person they encounter, this is my favorite toy shop going here all the time. Love looking at manga. You know, it's like whatever. You know what? See, yeah, you're absolutely right. Because and what's crazy about it is the movie is so bad that it tells you immediately the cold open of the movie is Al Pacino doing a crossword in his car.

His car gets side swiped. He pulls the van over. The guy gets out. We see the skull necklace hanging from the, from the thing, right? Right. Right. Yeah. We never return to that van, the skull necklace again until it shows up again in Britney

Snow's apartment. And Al Pacino's like, I know who the killer is. It's a guy I pulled over a year ago from the cold open. And that guy has never been in the movie again. And he wasn't chasing him. Like that's the other thing. It felt like he was chasing it. Like, no, exactly. He, that was a random.

It felt like we were on the case. It felt, it was absolute, absolute random. And I'll say one more thing about that stupid pendant that's hanging the weird nail or whatever. That would be the equivalent of me wearing one of those scented trees around my neck because it's hanging on the rear view mirror. It wasn't like, oh, I noticed, I noticed this necklace.

Like, it was, he noticed hanging from the rear view mirror. So he's like, ah. And Pacino, this is what's crazy about it. We see it in the cold open in extreme close-up on camera, shot from the interior of the car But they in it insinuates the Pacino sees the skull medallion from 30 feet outside the car He's he's outside the car completely and he doesn't see that thing we do and why would it make a difference? Why would you even clock that

as a cop? It's like, it's hanging from the rear view mirror. I thought you must have remembered it from, I thought maybe it was on his dad when he was hanging. I believe that they show that. Remember that later. They shot that open. Oh, he does. It was on his dad. He does. It was on his dad. Yes.. It was on his tag. I didn't even know that. Okay. But that again, again, this is where Pacino's bad at his job, he doesn't remember that until even later when he remembers the father hanging. He first remembers the medallion hanging, the skull hanging from the rear of the mirror.

He doesn't put it together that it was also hanging on the hanging father until the next clue dump. That's the thing is, exposition and clues are given to them, they don't solve anything. They don't have any satisfying work done for them. The guy, the killer, walks them through it every step of the way. So they're only realizing things things the killer wants them to. They're bad policemen.

I will say I disagree with you because the best clue is this one. If dead guy hanging in here, do you think? Yeah, I agree, yes. Now if his body was wet, you'd make him freeze faster. Oh, yes, of course it would. Archery, what are you thinking? Well, I'm fasting. Oh, yes, of course it would. Archery, what are you thinking? Well, I'm thinking.

When I want my beard a chill faster, I'll wrap it in a wet paper towel. He was already wet before he's brought in. There you go. I think this boy wants us to sweep the river. I was like, he does? I didn't get sad at all. What? How? What does that mean? I didn't get that at all. I had what would it that mean?

I don't even understand the paper towel to the dredging, the lake. I didn't understand it. And that, and you think that's the cool, you think that's what he wants? He wants you to realize they're both, they're making connections that seem fantastical and they're not making connections

that seem quite obvious. And then the final and then the final murder also leads to like a live Twitch stream of this murder. So it's like part of that Twitch stream. Wow. But there's so many comments of people just saying, this is fake. They were getting good numbers. I mean, though, look, it definitely inspired me to do some fun stuff

like that on my Twitch channel. But now I'm very interested. I mean, that was the other thing. It's like, it built to a climax that's so out of character, right? Nothing has been televised, nothing has been orchestrated. And all of a sudden, Brittany Snowzon camera,

and he's like, I'm gonna do it. Why? Why? Why? Why now? Why here? Why? Why? Why now? Why here? Why the technology? Why the technology?

I don't know, I don't know. Listen, if I swear to God, if Bosch had shown up at the first murder scene, nobody else would have been murdered. Bosch would have figured this out immediately with good police work, solid, a clue gathering, and tracking it down. These guys are out of their minds.

Yeah, they're all they are. The fact that they don't try to solve it, it's like the movie is called Hangman. And again, as someone who won at celebrity will fortune. Oh boy. 160,000 dollars. Like you're asking us as an audience to play the game with you. And for those of us who are very good at playing that game, it's very hard to not be able to compete.

I was frantically writing down the letters that I could see passing by to try to. I kept I kept freeze framing every time we got a new letter and it was plugged in. I kept freeze framing to be like, okay, I guess let me see if I can get this out. Let me see if I can get ahead of it because they're gonna, they must be digging in on it now, they've got three or four letters. Nope, no interest. No, the only thing that they came up with

was the most insane thing, which is like, pull the records of everyone released in the last nine months. That's a, that would be a crazy thing to do. But they don't, here's what's crazy. They don't even seem, and not until Britney Snow really mentions it and four grounds it a lot, they don't seem to think it has anything to do with the two of them. Even though the movie began with their badge numbers being carved into desks, that's just it, man. They were bad at this. It's staring at a hangman.

Yes. What would that feel? It feels like the snowman. That's what it feels like. Remember when we found out that that movie, The Snowman, one of the reasons that it felt so bad and disjointed is because they didn't shoot 20% of the script. They ran out of money and time and they were unable to shoot it all. That's what this felt like.

They worked. They didn't have the scenes. And this is maybe where the Al Pacino sleepwalking through it might come into play. They had the scenes that would set up a lot of connections. They did it. They just didn't add those lines. The cold open scene where he chases the van down and come and points his gun and get out of it.

It does appear that his eyes are closed. He does look here. That's where he chases the van down and come and points his gun and get out of the van. It does appear that his eyes are closed. The entire he does look here. That's where he's asleep. He appears to be full in a full REM sleep in that moment when he gets out of that car. He looks exhaust. He's like, who I say, I say you come out of that van. Who I am. And by the way, who's afraid of this man?

Like this is a short little guy who's like 80 years old. I mean, God, I mean God bless him, but it's like, no one's like, there might be a bomb in there. Why they think there's a bomb in there who knows? But he's like, fuck a bomb. And we never find out what's out for him. What's he gonna say? 83.

He's 80 years old. We never find out what that guy, why that guy, side swiped and why he was driving so crazy, why he was in the van, what was in the van, what he went, we never find out anything about that guy. So why put the scene at the top of the movie? Just so that later we can just for the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, you know me, I love slaughterhouses. I think it's a beautiful place where, you know, we really are creating where we're ending life. Your first date was to a slaughterhouse, right? June and then, yeah, you know, and I always like to bring there because I'm like, it's the end of life. It's the beginning of life because we're creating nourishment. Here's the thing. That slaughterhouse

was treated as if like five o'clock the bell rang and they just left all the meat out on the counter. It's like there is meat every like meat is not put away in the middle of the night. It's the middle of the night. Do you know how many rats there would be swarming? And every place. I mean, that means they're not clean. And they don't turn on a light.

Clearly, there's a lot of lights at the slaughterhouse. Clearly. There's no guards. There's no security people. There's nobody letting them in. They walk in the back door of a slaughterhouse. There's meat, just meat remnants all over all the tables, all the tables.

So it's like you're walking through a haunted house. That's how, yeah. And one of them should be like, oh, we gotta call the health department to have this place shut down because this looks absolutely not up to code. And these little fuckers, these guys are so unfaced. That woman slices her wrists and the captain's like,

what did you do bringing a cocan in there? He's like, all right, look, just screwed up. Oh yeah, so we just tried, like, she's like, she should be a little bit more. She's almost dead. Yeah, he's like, yeah, it'd be a mistake. I made a mistake, well yeah, look, it screwed up. Yeah, so we just tried, like, she should be a little bit more. She's almost scared. Yeah, he's like, I made a mistake. I made a mistake. Well, yeah, you got it.

Can you find me? Can you find me? Yeah, once again, it's Brittany Snow, who's like detectives, detectives. She's the only person who has any semblance of situational awareness in the world. Yeah, and they are so proud of it. They are a believe. They are believing.

They don't. Yes. Even when there are things that are right in front of their face, they do not connect them at all. And she does every step of the way. She's a genius. Well, I was confused by her, though, because I was like, they do something sometimes with women, especially blonde women in movies where they're like,

okay, let's put a bon honor, let's put a low bon honor. We got to believe she's smart, put a bon honor. And that low bon started to drive me, put a bon honor, get her in a bun and get her out there. Put her in a bun, put her in a bra, Put a bun on her. A bun in a bra. And it's driving me nuts, but there were times where the two of the Puccino and Urban will be talking and they cut to Britney Snow and she'd be in tears listening and emotionally connecting to them and what they were saying on a level that felt so outsized. I'm like, what's her relationship?

Paul, you said this at one point, like, are we gonna find out she's Puccino's child? Yeah. Why is she so connected to that? Is she the, yes. Why are they, yes, why are any of them connected to each other such that they feel so, like you would, you would think

that she and Carl Urban might start having a romance in a movie like this, like maybe they start to care for each other. Not in that low button. Zero they kept on. Zero they kept on. No, that's the thing is, there isn't chemistry between any performers period. Like there isn't, I don't believe that Carl Urban and Al Pacino have known each other

for so long, is that they're trying to impress upon us that they're old dear friends. They doesn't seem like it, you know? I don't get their interior relationships that would warrant the emotional investment that you're describing. It doesn't make sense because her, so her backstory is that when she was covering the cartel, someone jumped her and the cop who, someone jumped her,

and the cop who... Saved her life was killed. Not saved her life, not saved her life, I don't think, but the cop who tried to find the person who did that and scarred her, he did get killed in the line of duty. So I'm like, okay, but what I had trouble with is for somebody who's a New York Times investigative journalist, I'm like, you, she keeps on saying this isn't about me and I'm like, honey, you are making this about you.

You have revealed that you are not impartial, that you are very much so looking for a story where you can kind of heal this trauma and make a cop memorialize a cop in some way and it's very strange Well is okay, so that's a larger question that I have is she On assignment in Monroe, Georgia doing a character profile of Carl urban X X FBI agent who now works for Monroe County PD for the New York tie. Yes, sir. Yes, sir.

Why go to Monroe? What story is this? We needed to bring something back. Like there's so many things that are left hanging in this and not just the tulips that he pulled from the garden, which by the way, all the men out there, if you're gonna go into your own garden and get flowers to bring to your wife, like that's the worst plan of all time,

like to go into your own, like, like it shows no thought. That's why I found it very strange, and I think we might learn something in the sequel because I don't believe he cared about that wife. The only way to make this movie better would be for the sequel to be all of the same events told from the point of view of the serial killer so that I can make sense of the

movie I just watched so that it's just giving me the information because I don't have any of it like or give me a Britney snow movie because she's the only person that I'm interested in continuing on and solving cases. Well, this, she did all the work for this one. This is what we're talking about. This movie doesn't have a main character. This movie has, like, literally every character is about one quarter developed

and we still have one quarter that is not full by anybody. Well, that's, yes, all three of them together are one character. Right. She has emotions. Carl Urban is turned off. You know, she like this is why this is why I feel like this is the movie where it's like a checklist. Like, okay, we need one star that has foreign appeal. Well, Britain needs to know. She's in pitch perfect. We need one legend. Okay. Al Pacino, we got it. We need one person who's a good, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, man. Done what? Everyone's talking about Barbie right now. No one talk about hangman. This is the first kind of you know, kids toy movie. The hangman of hers. You know, like, but that's the thing is like that the hangman doesn't make sense. The reporter angle doesn't make sense. The police procedural doesn't

make sense. It's a failure at every single level because the minute you start to pull any of it apart, it falls apart completely. And I know you brought this up already, Paul, but it is really troubling to me that Al Pacino forces Carl Urban to look at this photos of his wife because there's, I could see another, I could see a scene in which he's just like, hey, so I just want to let you know that we actually realized that your wife, Jessica, had a V carved into her. What we saw was actually a V. Yeah, and he could say, let me see it. Let me see it.

And he could ask for it. No, and he could be like, don't. Don't. There's no need. We saw it. But meanwhile, he keeps it in the top part of his desk as if he's looking at a picture of his kids. Like I mean, that he's looking at that a lot. Wouldn't you if your Carl urban be looking for any way possible to connect the cold case of your wife's murder to any current ongoing investigation? Wouldn't that give you hope? He literally

seems to not want to. He seems to not want to investigate. Well, maybe he doesn't want to close the case because he wants to keep his wife alive. Yeah, maybe. Yeah. I don't, I wish I understood this fucking movie. Wow, because I really, I like you. I love Carl Urban.

I think his, he's a judge dread, the dread movie that he's in is fantastic. The boys, the boys, he's in his fantastic. The boys. The boys. He's just exceptionally and I love him. I like him so much. We just talk about one moment though, too, that no one reacts to. Carl urban loses his shit and is about to run over the killer, right, who speeds away

on a dirt bike. And everyone, stop, stop, stop. And they get hit by a Mac truck. And no one's like, hey man, you've lost it. It's like shit just went on. The same thing next day. Like no one reacts like, they would only say to Brittany Murphy,

you need to take a break. You need to set out. You need to be hospitalized for a week after that accident, at least. Pacino, if they were hit by a Mac truck, in that car, the way they were hit, Pacino would turn to dust. You're so right, because he would explode.

He already seen that when Pacino was like, basically like tapped by that hanging pig man, he pulls him around and can get up his back. They should, after they, after they're pulling Britney, I'm not pretty, Britney, Britney, Britney Snow, you got me got it in the head, pull. After they're pulling Britney Snow out of the car, they should look over and out where Al Pacino was sitting

should be a small pile of dust and like and and a hair piece like because it makes no sense that he walks out like, oh, hey, that was that crazy one. Who I y'all want to get some po boys? Oh, he's just for a minute. It's Atlanta. I got a car dead in my pickup truck. Who I just say that it like and I do think that this is a movie that you fall asleep to and you think

is better than it is. Like, if you catch it midway through, you think it's better than it is because you clearly like, oh, I missed something that sets up and all this makes sense. But when you sit and watch it, when you watch the whole thing, you see all the holes. But that's like, I always love to watch if there are deleted scenes from this movie. I would love to see what they chose to take out. You know, fascinating. So if anything, I also believe

they had to put everything they shot in the movie. They're like, wait, listen, we gotta put it in. This is a blooper, but we're putting it in. I was obsessed with the fact that Britney Snow in the beginning of the movie, when they realized when they are at that school and see two dummies two little doll dummies staring up at the hangman board and clearly like we come to realize like oh, that's this is a serial killer telling Urban and patina that they're dummies and their dummies for train plays game

But when she says I'm good with numbers because she's remembered his first of all, like just remembering a number doesn't mean you're good with numbers necessarily, but also. You're also a reporter. You're a reporter. You should know this stuff. What I, yes, but also what I was counting on is, oh, you're good with like puzzles and games and like, right, you'd be good on survivor. The puzzle portion of survivor?

Yeah, the puzzle portion of survivor. Okay, yeah, they do compete with. Well, I will back up what you're saying, June, and say, okay, let's say Brittany Snow is good with numbers and has a good memory, right? Because she's a reporter or whatever. And then Pacino is not only good with puzzles, he does the Crossword puzzle every day.

He's good with crossword puzzles in Latin, right? Which again, the clue is Latin. And it is a crossword puzzle-esque style, but Pacino, his character, not interested in solving the puzzle path. He never looked at those letters. They never say, like, oh, okay, do we have all the vowels yet?

They're never looking at that word. They're never, you know, they tell one of their, their assistance in the police station to like narrow the filter, narrow the search to who's just been released. It's also like, well, narrow the search with those letters. They'll leave. Just have one person working on it

and say, don't say that on that medical examiner all the time, who, yeah, they've been hung. Like, what else do you need to know? Like, at this point, we don't need to keep on going back. We're gonna get the code preppers. Yeah. Why was he frozen? Why was he frozen?

Who cares? At this point, the ins and outs of the murderers are not important because we're chasing someone who has an MO. Let's go to 11 p.m. Okay. And try to solve this freaking puzzle. But then in the call of the train, it took decades to crack the Zodiac killers cypher.

People worked hard to try and crack the cypher that the Zodiac killer rose. They don't tell Jane twice. Yeah, they're not. She was interested in solving the hand and solve the whole fucking thing. Yeah, I know how. I again, it's a small town. Most of the times are watching takes, most of them 60 takes to decipher the zodiac killers. Cypher. Oh my god.

I will sorry for. Oh my God. I will say that this is, I think almost if you watch the first 45 minutes, you'll leave happier because the first 45 minutes, it's fun, it's crazy. But when you are forced to look at the end and you yourself feel like you want to go murder someone and make a hangman puzzle because my big question is also this. It ends on this bullshit cliffhanger. There's another hangman, which I'm gonna go to your theory, June that there are twins,

but who was the first letter killed? Carlyard and Swipe. What do you mean? No, the second puzzle. The second letter filled in. Yeah, I don't know. One letter filled in. Oh, so we just haven't found the victim yet. Well, I guess there's somebody killed already. Yeah. The only way this movie could redeem itself would be if in the second movie it's revealed that Britney Snow is the murderer or one or one of our or Carl Irwin or I guess Pacino, but there's no way. Just because if nobody that we're inside, if nobody on the inside of this movie

is part of the crime, it's deeply unsatisfied as well. It's so terrible. And it's also like, this whole idea also that the murder needs to strike by 11 PM. I'm like, why? To celebrate his death. Because that's when his dad, yeah, that's when his dad died. And that's when he convicted him, I guess, at 11 p.m. That's when the eviction man, guys.

So can I eviction man? May I ask one other question, which I guess this may be unravel everything? Why was it in Latin? Great, great question. Why was it in Latin? Why was it in Latin? It makes no sense. And why do you, okay, so now let's reverse engineer it. So they clearly thought, oh, let's make it in Latin. So it's harder to solve the puzzle as we're going. But meanwhile, but what if we, but how are we going to solve it?

Okay, we're going to have to have a scene where it's established that Pacino can solve puzzles in Latin so he's very familiar with Latin. So we'll just put it in early. But okay, but here's the thing too. It's in Latin. Let me tell you how it's spelled. E-V-I-C-T-I-O-N-E-M.

The word is there. It's not like one of those Latin words, they're like, oh, that means to evict. It's there. Eviction him. It's there. It's not like, I figured it out. Even the Latin word, you know, maybe the Latin word

for abandon. If you flip the last two letters, it's evict me. Oh. Here's my question, though, which is when that, that hangman's written on the wall with the eyes already in. So the word's complete, right? So did the killer do that on his fall down? How did those eyes get up there when? I think he knew, I think he knew it was, he was going to be successful in killing Britney Snow. So he doesn't, he figures out the puzzle before, like he doesn't kill and then do the puzzle

because he did that at the train station too. He may come around three o'clock in the afternoon, do the puzzle part, then go back to the train yard and then hang up the guy, like, he's got to, like, you know, it's a complicated thing. It's like a scavenger hunt. Yeah, yeah, yeah. guy like he's got to like, you know, it's a complicated. It's like a scavenger hunt. Yeah. And I mean, he's doing so much work, but like I never, we're never even along for the ride with him.

You know, like in silence of the lambs, when you see Buffalo Bill talking the girl into helping load the sofa into the van, blah, blah, blah, you're with Buffalo Bill while he's out and doing his scary ass stuff, you're like, okay, I understand the world of the bad guy in a way that I don't understand the world of this bad guy, even when it's revealed to me by the end. I don't end his reasoning, forgive me, bad Mr. Bad Guy, Mr. Hangman, but his reasoning is nonsense.

He thinks Al Pacino's responsible for his father's hanging. It's so unsatisfying. Well, the dad was up, okay, so no, it's not that because the landlord went to court to evict the tenant. Then the eviction notice was probably put on the door and then the father's like, well, I'm going to kill myself and then knock, knock, knock. And then Al Pacino arrives. It's like, there's multiple steps. It wasn't like Al Pacino's like, hey, I gotta evict you and the dad was like,

one second, I gotta take a quick shower and then kill themself. It seemed like the kid was maybe home alone with this man hanging as Al Pacino's work in the night shift and doing nighttime evictions. I'm really sad, but I'm doing nighttime evictions. I'm really sad, although I do a nighttime eviction. I thought we were gonna find out that the young boy had actually hung his father.

Ooh. Great, by the way, give me anything that helps set up for me. What the fuck is going on? Yeah. Like at the almost like at the end of the movie, at the end of Burn After Reading, there's that great scene with JK Simmons and David Rashi

where they're trying to explain the events of the movie and they're just like, honestly, I don't know. It makes no sense. This happened and then this happened. He's like, really? That's crazy. Yeah, no, I know. Doesn't make any sense.

Like they break it down on a level that is like, the events of this movie were preposterous, so I don't know what to tell you. Like the movie should have had one of those, because none of it added up, and they should have just been like, this was a weird one, right? Yep, this one was, you know, look,

like, or the hangman just go, I had a plan, but I had to work fast because when you came out of retirement, I just had to kill people, willy nilly. Like, just make somebody say something that makes, when she started following you around, I knew that she was the smartest one, so I had to make my tracks even harder to cover. Like, and basically the whole thing comes down to like,

Pacino having to like, apologize to the serial killer and be like, I failed you because when I was like a beat cop, I didn't like adopt you. Like, I don't understand. Because I follow the letter of law. This serial killer, I'll be honest with you, is like, his emotional, like he's attached too much emotional weight onto Pacino.

It's inappropriate. It's absolutely inappropriate. And he's saying to Pacino, all of my personal trauma is because of you. Because Pacino's work is placed. Pacino didn't even work in that place where he was abused, that we think he was abused. I don't even know, he's like,

let me take your place. He wants to take the place. Why? Why does he have the guilt? Like, again, make him the dad. Make him like the, like he was having a relationship with that kid's mother and he made it, make it, make it personal. Is what this movie is lacking because there's a lot of personal stuff. Karl Urban's wife is killed.

The, the, the, you know, all these were, there are relationships, but they're all circumstantial. They're, the direct, um, uh, uh, the criminal, the serial killer and Pacino, there is nothing really personal between them. No, this may be a lot of people meeting each other for the first time. Yes. The coincidence. The very first time. Yeah. And that's what I can't, that's what's so tremendously unsatisfying about it and

Why I would not recommend people watch it. Oh My gosh, this is I mean this is a lot. It's a lot that we went through here I feel like we had an emotional reaction to it I was coming in and enjoying it and now I'm really frustrated makes me want to just kill somebody and and send them run around town to Salva Kangman Paul I I want to just kill somebody and send them run around town to solve a gang man puzzle. Stop that, Paul. I actually did it. If you did, June and I would be on the case.

It would be on the case. I really did enjoy watching this movie actually. And it is so deeply unsatisfying. And there's no there there. And it's again, not anything that I saw or anything that happened, but I did still have some really good laughs. So, oh yeah. I just did, you know, and as far as our movies go,

I thought this one's down pretty easy. Oh yeah, it's an hour and a half. Nice time, nice time. Nice time, nice time. And especially if you're not expecting, I think because of the people involved and the type of movie it was, I thought it was gonna be a little bit better.

Sure. In terms of story. Like, if this had had even a more slightly cohesive storyline, it would have been a blast, I think. But it wasn't enough just because I was doing so much work on the movie's behalf that I was like, why am I working so hard

if the movie's not gonna work? I went away feeling stupid about myself. Like, that I was like, why am I working so hard if the movie's not gonna work? I went away feeling stupid about myself, like maybe I missed something, but clearly we might have all missed something because there are people out there that love this movie. It is now time for second opinions. You're a fool, you're a fool, you're a fool, you're a fool. The movie was a piece of shit,

yet this person recommends it. Alright, here are some reviews from Amazon, the average rating of this movie is 4 out of 5 stars. 57% are 5 star reviews. MD Windhorst writes, looking at some of the reviews by, quote, expert reviewers, I just call mine just an opinion. It's a cop movie people. You are probably the same critics that think you know everything about the hops and your freaking local craft beer. Whoa.

If you enjoy watching a legend, school younger actors that hope to one day achieve half of what Pacino has and help them home their craft, then you should watch it. Was anyone great in this film? Was a pot week? It's a freaking cop movie people, Pacino should have stopped and could have stopped long ago, but he loves his craft. Can he call it in and still be better than most of today's

heard? Yes. For a cop quote movie, it was extraordinarily well acted. Was it interesting enough? Yes Was it worth an hour and a half of my time? Yes Did it shove down my throat some social warrior message? No There aren't many movies left that appear to entertain me and escape and this Did the trick for me. That's just

my opinion. Five stars. Wow. And and then this one was, I like this one, the title was Al Pacino is great. Paul Urban is a good actor as well. Five stars. Paul Urban. Oh, wow. That's amazing. And then I mean, I don't even think you can level the claim that this is Copaganda simply because they're so bad at police works. I mean, my gosh, by the way, I wouldn't say that. Oh, my God. Anyway, Debra Gale writes this, I don't understand the three star average. I do probably watch too many serial killer documentaries, series and movies, and I have no idea why I'm so interested in it, but I am!

This is now one of my top 10 on my list for the best movies about serial killers. It was exciting, it got my pulse racing, and I was nearly white knuckling it. The body count was high, and the pace was fast, and all the actors did a great job. Even though most of the movie was filmed at a night setting, and I never once thought about it because you could clearly see what was happening at all times.

If this is the kind of subject matter that interests you, you will be really glad to spend an hour and 33 minutes to watch this film. It's like the movie seven. I'll also be watching that movie again too. Five stars. I mean, this is not anything like seven. This movie wishes it was seven. This is seven through, like, I feel like the pig head scene was what made me feel like,

oh, these guys think they're doing seven. Oh my gosh. If boy, oh boy. So I mean, I know we've talked about what we recommended. I think we're kind of mixed on it. We kind of, I mean, there's enough in here that's fine. Yeah. I think watch it. I think watch it.

Yeah. Watch it fine. But, you know, don't, it's, boy, boy, what a mess. I will say there's one connection to how did this get made past, which is the director of the movie, Johnny Martin, was the stunt coordinator for old dogs. Okay. Wow. Yeah. Okay. Wow.

Yeah. Yeah. And just drawn connections as well. And in the end of the game of the episode, I said, I got caught up and saying, this is Al Pacino's lowest rated vehicle under 40%. I thought I missed red something, but during the podcast, I did do the research. No, no, this is Al Pacino's late.

This is Al Pacino's lowest rated starring vehicle with 4%. Oh, oh, when I saw the four, I was like, oh, a zero wasn't added 40% is what I assumed, but no, it is, is now there for 4% 4% So that's a low, it's a low one. It's rare to see the Rotten Tomato scores in the, in the single Dig. The guy, the guy who is revealed to be the serial killer at the end is simply not smart enough or capable of pulling off all of the kills in the movie. No way, no, he's simply not, he's, I don't believe for an instant that this moron has been three steps ahead of these two police officers and this New York Times investigative journals. Do you think we're going to find him to sequel that he has not been?

Yeah, yeah, I guess you're right, because it was so dumb. I think we're gonna be. He was so, yeah, go ahead. I think we should be giving up hope that there's gonna be a sequel on this one. What? How do we get, can we help this?

I mean, because of the strike, you think because of the strike? I think. You think they were in the middle of writing it and it was pencils down. I mean, maybe they were trying to really, they were, you know what, they were trying to find the right Latin word. It's taken them too long and they've just given up. What would be the best Latin word with a V?

We've already backed ourselves into the V. What if it was just a Victionum again? All right, before we end today's show, I just want to give a shout out to Francis Rizzo, who has sent so many amazing themes to us over the years. And Francis is, unfortunately, an end-stage kidney failure. And he is doing everything he can to try to find a match for a kidney transplant. So the more potential donors he can reach, the greater chance he has.

And if there are any potential donors out there right now, you can go to kidneyregistry.org or call 516-562-0550 or email transplantsurgeryatnorthwell.edu and mention the name Francis Rizzo. Yeah, best of luck, Francis. Yes, good luck, Francis. And thank you for all your songs.

All right, so that brings us to the end of our episode. Make sure you always head on over to T public. I'm sure that we will have some sort of a Viction Man merch. I feel like we're gonna need a shirt and a shout out to our producer, April Halley, for finding these movies. This is a true gem in our producers in House,

Scott Sonny and Molly Reynolds. Of course, all of our amazing art is designed by the Fantastic Kyle Waldron. And today's episode was engineered by Rich Garcia and make sure you listen to next week where you can chime in about all the things that we might have missed or maybe a series that you might have about this movie and give us a call 619 Paul ask and we will talk all about whatever you want to talk about you can leave questions for me and Jason and we can also get into more theories of

The Hangman! Alright, see you next time everybody. Bye for now you