How Did This Get Made? - Matinee Monday: Hackers

Episode Date: April 8, 2024

What's its mission? June's fear of technology prompts that unforgettable question when the HDTGM crew break down the 1995 cyber-thriller Hackers starring Angelina Jolie, Jonny Lee Miller, Fisher Stevens, and Lorraine Bracco. They discuss the movie's bonkers take on common computer passwords, the hackers' fashion, Penn Jillette in the big computer room, and Fisher Stevens' amazing performance as "The Plague." Plus, the gang takes a break from movie talk to gab all about candy bars, gum, and vaping. (Originally Released 11/27/2015) Go to hdtgm.com for tour dates, merch, and more.Pre-Order Paul’s book about his childhood, Joyful Recollections of Trauma, wherever books are soldFor extra Matinee Monday content, visit Paul's YouTube page: youtube.com/paulscheerHDTGM Discord: discord.gg/hdtgmPaul’s Discord: discord.gg/paulscheerFollow Paul on Letterboxd: letterboxd.com/paulscheer/Check out Paul and Rob Huebel live on Twitch (www.twitch.tv/friendzone) every Thursday 8-10pm ESTSubscribe to Unspooled with Paul and Amy Nicholson here: listen.earwolf.com/unspooledSubscribe to The Deep Dive with Jessica St. Clair and June Diane Raphael here: www.thedeepdiveacademy.com/podcastCheck out The Jane Club over at www.janeclub.comCheck out new HDTGM merch over at https://www.teepublic.com/stores/hdtgmWhere to find Jason, June & Paul:@PaulScheer on Instagram & Twitter@Junediane on IG and @MsJuneDiane on TwitterJason is not on Twitter

Cybercrime is under the microscope in this prescient tale of the seedy underbelly of hacking. No, it's not. Not at all. We saw hackers, so you know what that means. Now it's time for How Did This Get Made? We're gonna have a good time, celebrate some failure, not just be a hater, cause you know you wonder how did this get made? Let's waltz in the mediocrity of subpar art. Perhaps we'll find the answer to the question, how did this get made?

Hello, people of Earth, and welcome to How Did This Get Made? I am your host, Paul Scheer, joined, as always, by the lovely Jason Manzuchas. How are you, Jason? Oh, hello, Paul. And the very manly June Diane Raphael. How are you, June? Hello, Paul. We are talking about the 1995 film Hackers today. And for those of you who haven't seen the film Hackers, here's a quick breakdown.

A young boy is arrested by the US Secret Service for writing a computer virus and is banned from using a computer until his 18th birthday. Years later, he and his new found friends discover a plot to unleash a dangerous computer virus, but they misuse their computer skills to find evidence while being pursued by the Secret Service and the evil computer genius behind the virus. Such is Hackers. That is the premise of the 1995 film Hackers that we watched this week. And boy, oh oh boy this has been the

movie that has been recommended to us time and time again I get why I mean it is pretty it is pretty spectacularly bad in a way that I feel like we would appreciate which I did appreciate well I will tell you I will tell you that what I love about a movie like this is it took such a hard swing at what the future is and what computers are. And what the internet looks like. Oh, oh. And it could not have gotten it more wrong. So what year was this supposed to be taking place in? Well 1995. Yeah. But what year was it made? 1995.

Yeah, it was not a futurescape. Yeah. Wait, did you think this movie took place in the future? No, I didn't, but that's why you're saying it took such a... Well, it took a bold swing at being like... That idea of like the... When they're talking about going into the internet and they had to visualize that, like the floating ambiguous algorithmic kind of looking things over just space, oh, like empty space. Well, I mean, you know.

And buildings too. Yeah. Buildings of numbers. This movie starts off with one of my favorite openings of all time. He's an eight year old hacker, by the way. Yes. He is eight year old.

When they show you the reveal of the little boy who like took down the whatever is comedically young. I mean, so the opening of this movie starts almost like a Disney movie because Felicity Huffman is trying this kid who shut down 1500 facilities or whatever and the camera's panning from adult head, adult head, adult head and then space. And then the camera has to go comically down

to reveal an eight year old-old sitting there like fuck you I did it and it looks like I mean when we're saying an eight-year-old like I'm talking about Jonathan Lipnicki in Jerry Maguire. Yes, but he looks like that little like of a kid There is supposed to be 12 Right because it's until his 18th birthday. Oh, oh, he's 12, he's not eight. No. I don't think so. Oh, I'm sorry.

Yeah, no, but he looks a lot younger than that. I thought he was eight years old for some reason. 12 is a little better, but still very young. He doesn't look 12. I think at the end of the day, they keep on saying it was seven years ago. I'm sorry to go back to this. So you're saying that they were taking a swing

at what the internet would look like, or just the idea of like this is the internet well i think now in 1995 i think the whole idea of what hackers did like for example there's a part in the movie where john a lee miller the main character is hacking and puts on the equivalent of google glasses yeah like so he can like hack and literally like hit the computer screens in his eye like that's not a thing and even like like Fisher Stevens in virtual reality, he's boxing, but also feeling the force of the hit back. Like it's just, it's too much.

And Penn Jillette in that big computer room. That big computer room is such an amazing idea of like, how are we going to represent the internet? And it is just a big giant room full of like glass boxes with words and numbers flashing across as if they are living in the computer. One of the climactic scenes in the movie looks like a scene out of a whack-a-mole game from like a bad amusement park because it's just all these holes in a brightly lit orange panel and Fisher Stevens movies. Fisher Stevens in this movie, man. I love it. Stevens who's even in this movie man

I love it I kind of think of this movie as like if Fisher Stevens character from Short Circuit went bad This is him it is it made me sad for him in this movie Well Fisher Stevens does a thing where he's a villain he's the villain the computer genius who is who's also a hacker Oh my gosh. He is the plague. He rides around on a skateboard. Everybody is on wheels in this. This movie might as well be called Everybody's on Wheels. Nobody is a pedestrian. Everyone gets to and fro with some sort of wheels, be it rollerblades, and the world is equipped

to handle everybody on wheels. Oh, I mean they go to a club that has ramps built in. It's like Starlight Express style. Yeah, it imagines a world that is not the future in which life exists like a Starlight Express and like there are hacker like raves, hacker clubs. Everybody like hackers are the most secretive people. They are anonymous. Yeah, but like in this movie people like spray-paint their front door like hack stock Yeah, or whatever like it's like it's like picture what you know of Snowden and then just go to yeah the exact opposite It is these are more like these I said like everyone looks like they're an extra from the point-break movie the original

And the original original not not the remake I don't fuck that new one. All these hackers seem to want to do, at least the teenage hackers, is be able to make phone calls for free from payphones. That seems to be, I never understood what they're beyond breaking up the crime that we find out about. Well, they're trying to hack the planet, obviously. Their ideology, though, in terms of hacking is, it's like, it's not for the greater good. Well, like, literally...

It's for free phone calls. Well, we... Well, I think... What do they want to do? I think they want to... Cause chaos? Cause chaos and have their monikers be... Like this is what hackers do.

They hack something to show that they could get in, and then they leave something behind to show that they were there, basically. That's what they're kind of talking about in that weird cafe. That's terrible. When they're like, I got into this bank and I got it to do this and you know. But sometimes they just want to like put on their favorite episodes of like the Outer Rim. Outer limits.

What's interesting about that is it just makes to me, it just makes them so unlikable and unredeemable. Sure. Well, you know what? They're terrible people. And this movie posits them as like the good guys. They're not. Who are like, who are breaking federal laws,

like almost like you would root for a movie that was about kids doing graffiti. Yes. You know what I mean? Like street kids doing graffiti. Well, they're like. Even though they're breaking the law and damaging people's property,

that's, there's an artistic merit. I feel like this posits the idea that the hackers are like that. Well, let's hear what Fisher Stevens, as his character, thinks the hackers are. Let's take a listen. You wanted to know who I am, Zero Cool? Well, let me explain the New World Order.

Governments and corporations need people like you and me We are samurai the keyboard And all those other people out there who have no idea what's going on are the cattle move I Need your help you need my help. Let me help you earn your spurs. I Think about it. Enjoy the laptop. Cool.

Tell me where it is. Oh my God. That is Fisher Stevens describing, I guess, but basically not saying anything. Basically. I still don't understand from his point of view. Well, he seems, he's just in it for the money though. That's all he wants out of this.

He's committing a huge crime by creating a worm that is siphoning money off of whatever that weird company is that he works for. Yes, which is named Gibson, which is a tip of the hat to William Gibson, who invented the term cyberspace. Oh, that's true, yes. But yeah, I didn't even really understand the premise of this movie. I want to get into the right. So it's a bunch of hackers and there are these elite hackers and the elite. Is elite a word that hackers use? Because it's used a lot in the movie. Oh, they go, don't worry. He's an elite hacker. He's elite. But meanwhile, there's a kid who's trying to get into the elite group, and they go, why don't you break into Gibson,

which has not really been established at all. And it's like a mining company or something. Why are they like, oh, Gibson, you should hack Gibson. And Gibson to me seems like a very important giant company because they have multiple tankers out across the world that can easily be flooded. That's basically what's happening in this movie, that tankers are going to flip over.

But the budget of this movie never shows you any of those tankers in distress. Well, I also doubt that these tankers, you know, one of the big points that Fisher makes is that these tankers don't have any manual, like, abilities anymore. Like, their entire. And I just don't.

Which is interesting. But how could that be, that there's no way to? The boat. You should have some manual... You should have some... Well, this is the whole conversation that people are having right now about these Google cars. Oh, Google cars. Google cars. All these... Or self-driving cars. Tesla is now a self-driving... Can be self-driving.

All these self-driving cars, should you be able to manually override it or not? Yeah. Because we are more fallible by far than the machines. Like the only problem they've had with Google cars so much, so far rather, is that people driving keep hitting the driverless cars. But Jason, I think this comes back to an issue we've talked about a lot, which is, do you fear machines or not?

I'm listening. Do you trust them? Well, people did. Hackers did hack Jeep. They hacked a moving car Oh, wow that they were They were able to take control of a car's computer system and take it over wait and what did that car do? That no no they did it to show they could do it. I'm sorry

They didn't do it like remotely to somebody who was driving. Okay, they did it to show hey I'm sorry. They didn't do it like remotely to somebody who was driving. Okay, they did it to show hey This is a this is a weakness God this should be dealt with because we were very easily able to just Hacker's like that are working and kind of an altruistic way where they're trying to blow whistles and show So do they yeah, of course, but did they come forward and say they're just completely anonymous. They're not. Those ones, I'm not sure. I mean, the group's might be higher. The hacker group anonymous.

Well, yeah. They are like the, you know, they are. Elite. They are the elite hackers who are. And they're probably gathering around watching Razor and Blade do their hacker show. Oh my God. That was the thing that was so crazy about it

is that this supposedly elite group of hackers get together to watch a TV show with these two characters Razor and Blade who open up their show, which we don't even understand if it's a public access or if they're also hacking into a station, I don't know, to then basically talk about how to get free phone calls. I mean, that seems like a very low level. That's a low level of hacking. But by the way, that's a different, that's to me a storyline in this movie

that in some ways wasn't exploited enough, which should have been that these are teen, well, these are teen hackers. So what do teens really want out of their lives that they can hack? Oh, sorry, go ahead. And that's like kind of interesting to me, but for them to just be hacking for the sake of it.

But that is hacking. That I believe, and I mean like, It's a duty you can get in there. Is to show that you are so good, you could beat the security system of this big company or the government or whatever it is that you can show like, oh, I penetrated their defenses.

Uh, that's how good I am. I found a back door. It's like winning. I mean, look, any hackers out there that are listening, I'm sorry. I'm sorry for our, yeah, we're doing the best we can, but it's like, it's like winning a race. It's like having a medal. It's like, I did that.

I did that. It's like a comp, it's accomplishment based. It's like, it's unlocking who did the, what? Like if you brought down a company, of course, that's, I think that, I did that. It's accomplishment based. It's unlocking who did the what. If you brought down a company. And then of course, I think that's the kind of hackers that are meant to be represented in this. I also think there are malicious hackers who are trying to steal credit card information, who are trying to steal information in order to make money off of it, in order to profit. Well, like, yes.

So they're just doing it for the love of the hat. I think these this movie is about kids who are doing it to show that they're good, to impress each other. Right. They're they're not they're not evil. They're I mean, at the most, they're messing around with TV stations. Yeah. But they're not doing like a I would say that at the end, when they made all those stoplights go haywire. I mean, that seems to be incredibly unsafe.

True, people could have been hurt, absolutely. Seemed people were. It kinda seems like you're on the side of the Secret Service. We wanna shut these hackers down. Yeah. Of course. I thought you would also wanna be a hacker though too.

Because you would wanna- I don't know, it looks so tedious. It looks like a terrible way to spend your day. It looks horrible. Can you imagine, especially back then, and I would love it if people would tell us on the message boards or whatever, like back then, everything moved so slow. Yeah, they're connecting to payphones.

Oh, by the way, they're looking at a modem. They're connecting to payphones because payphones exist. They're excited about a new modem, and they're looking at a modem. They're getting into payphones because payphones exist. They're excited about a new modem and they're looking at a modem like, whoa! And the modem is also eliminating, sorry, not eliminating, emanating a light at you. Like everything in this movie is reversed projector. If computers were shooting that much light into your face, we'd all be blind by now. Everybody's face is only the reflection of... It really is. It's that thing where they get into trouble a lot in movies that try and

represent computers and working at computers. You know, what's it called? The Net is another one. Oh yes, which I thought we should do after this. I remember enjoying The Net. Really? Yes. Oh, we gotta watch The Net. I'd love to see it again, but I remember liking it.

Things that are truly dependent on the most mundane and boring activity, which is typing commands into a keyboard. And so this movie goes so out of its way to give us interesting visuals to go along with that, all of which is nonsense. I mean, he's literally in a plane looking down at New York City and then New York City turns into a big Microchip and he's like looking at all the connections I feel like I spent the entire movie in the brains of a computer Like just in the innards of a fucking computer

You're always in and that must have been horrible for you because you have such a firmly entrenched fear of computers I don't like computers or machines in general and I felt like I was inside of a machine the entire time. Really? Wow. Yes. You didn't identify with any of the human characters? Honestly, not really. Really?

At all. So you wouldn't say that Serial or Nikon or Freak or The Plague or Razor or Blade? No, first of all, I never understood why the two of them, Kate Angelina Jolie and Johnny Lee, what's his last name? Johnny Lee Miller. Even who married after this, which is interesting, but I didn't understand why

they didn't like each other in the beginning. No. And I felt like that rival hackers. She was also trying to program the TV station. So, but when she, he arrives at high school, did she know that? No, no, she's just angry with him. Oh, she's just, she's just that Oh she's just she's just that way. Yeah she's just that way. Couldn't you tell? But why is the cool girl- couldn't you tell?

She dresses like she's an extra in Logan's run. I'm ready to talk about her sideburns whenever anyone else- when were rash guards as normal wear in? Why is she wearing a fucking surfer shirt yes through a majority of this movie? She also at one point is wearing just like a one-piece futuristic Jumpsuit. Yes, inexplicably and then like she truly is like, oh, I'm gonna start dressing like I'm from a super Futuristic sci-fi movie and ride around on this motorcycle But yet she also is the person that the school is deemed to initiate the new students Yeah, like that would be where there there so many new students that day? And all there's like, when she plays a prank on him,

there's like a pool on the roof and he goes up and there's no pool on the roof. There's like 25 kids up there. Are there 25 new students at this school? But also by the way, I had an issue with that pool prank. Or is that- Is everybody like can't wait to get a look at that pool? I know, like can high school kids can't resist

the promise of an Olympic sized pool? Also, come on, there at that pool. I know, like, can high school kids can't resist the promise of an Olympic-sized pool? Also, come on, there's no pool on the roof, right? I mean, there is a pool out here at the Earwolf Roofs, though. Should we maybe stop there? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, right. It wasn't like, ooh, there's a naked girl. Come on, you guys don't know about the Earwolf Pool?

I know, how long has it been there for? Oh, it just opened. Is it nice? This is the time I'd like to take a break. There's a lemonade stand. All right, let's go up there and it just opened. There's a lemonade stand. All right, let's go up there and take a break. There's a bocce ball court. Oh, it's so great. The pool, the ear wolf pool where all your money is going.

I knew it. I knew that's what they were doing. I gave them $100 for this show and they're making a pool. It's a really nice pool, though. You guys can come visit it any time you're out here in L.A. Suckers. We're a really nice pool though. You guys can come visit it anytime you're out here in LA suckers We're looking at you England Screw you dicks England We apologize going to war with England and we we have no but we have no dates on the book for a London shows

I'm sorry that we falsely promised that to you We would love to go to London. We will go to London. We will come to learn There's no date in the book so you can you can yell at us in person rather than just online you bastards And by the way, let's Angelina Jolie Is they are all dressing like these hackers are all dressing like? Hackers like almost like clowns like the outfits this movie, like Matthew Lillard's outfit. Matthew Lillard.

Those braids. OK. Those braids. OK. Hold on. Let me talk for one second. I just want to find what I wrote. Matthew Lillard is doing something

with this character that I can't figure out. I think he's adopting a slight transgender motif. I think he's also adopting like a stoner motif. It's too much. It's like a jacket on a jacket on a jacket. But you also remember the early 90s, the style was disgusting. Yes. This is New York City. Like this is... I kept forgetting it was New York City, by the way. New York City. It's like these...

Yeah, kept forgetting. And it's with high school kids. Like they should be at the cutting edge of what's going on. And I think they were, and it's disgusting. Matthew Lillard, I wrote down in the middle of the movie, Matthew Lillard is, I believe, basing his entire character's look on Rae-Ann from My So-Called Life. Ha ha ha ha ha!

He is dressed identical to the female best friend in My So-called life, 100%. The braids, the outfits, every... He's wearing, I believe he's wearing women's clothing the whole time. And it is fascinating everything he's doing. He was by far my favorite character in the movie. Yeah, he was amazing. By far.

He definitely made a choice and he was fun. I don't understand what... Loved him. I don't understand if he was homeless. I don't understand what, like I don't understand if he was homeless I don't understand. He references not having a place to sleep a few times. It doesn't make sense that he's a hacker He seems like their dumb buddy, but is instead just another hacker with them and he seems like on their level Yeah, he's elite. Um The one thing I wanted to bring up about his wardrobe too is that he is wearing a shirt and uh,

Avril actually brought this up too. His shirt is of a young girl holding Jesus' hand, and it says, and the young girl is saying, what happened to your hand? Because there is a nail mark in the hand. That is the shirt that he wears in the AP English class. What's interesting though, because the 90s to me, the early 90s was all about, it was not about looking good. No. No. It was about men dying their hair that horrible shade of blonde. Yep. Or red or whatever.

Yeah, like Claire Danes and myself. I mean, I thought she was beautiful, but it's not great, that color. It's also a movie version of these things, because I also, yesterday, after I watched this, I watched a bunch of High Fidelity. Which is wonderful. But it also has the gang of skateboard kids

who hang out out front of the record shop are similarly dressed in 90s era crazy clothes, crazy weird hair colors, that are so beyond what kids did at that point. It's almost like the same person who cast everybody in Back to the Future 2 when they're in the future did all the art design for everything. It's like people are so trying to pick a trend

and they just, like again, like a rash guard is a bold move, it's a bold move. And especially for someone, it's not like it's a California movie where she's wearing surf clothes to school. It's a New York City movie where she's wearing like a quick silver rash guard shirt to school. I don't know what's going on. It's a rash guard, it's bright blue.

And then she seems to be wearing like evening pants that are high-waisted over it. But, like, evening wear, and then, like, a nice, like, a nice ankle boot. And when she... It's baffling. It's baffling! It is like a combination of high-end sportswear, high-end couture. Like slacks.

Yeah. She's like, I'm going shopping at the surf shop. I'm going shopping at like Bloomingdale's. And then like. You're gonna stop off at Ann Taylor. And then my friend is gonna like, like throw scissors around my head and that's what my haircut's gonna be.

She, and what I found even interesting was that her fashion sense went into her dreamscape. Because when she dreams about Johnny Lee Miller, am I right or wrong? Is he wearing like a fully plastic or like a leather, leather, yeah, body suit, like Eddie Murphy from Delirious Bodysuit. Like, so her fantasy of him is in this leather. That was an interesting moment, that fantasy, because I thought, because at first there's a shot of a woman, it's clearly a woman in like that

red leather spandex latex, whatever that is, jumpsuit, like a body suit. Yeah. And there's a finger like, you know, going around her thighs and then they pan up and it's him wearing it. Yes. Well, there's definitely like... There's a bunch of like gender fluidity going on. Also, you know, not just Matthew Lillard's wardrobe,

which again is all based on Ray-Anne from My Still Gold Life, but also like, Johnny Lee Miller and Angelina Jolie have the bet about whoever loses, whoever's not the best hacker has to wear a dress on their date. And then he is, a dress on their date. And then he is, when they have their date at the end of the movie, wearing something that is in between. Everyone's wearing something in between.

I feel like, I feel like the men are dyeing their hair. I feel like that was it. They feel like the guy, people who made the movie were like, boys are girls, girls are boys, gender makes up. They're hackers. Who knows? Hackers. They hack their sexuality. Like, like, like, June, who knows? They're hackers! Who knows? Hackers!

They hack their sexuality! Like, wait, like. June, can you talk about your, yeah, go ahead. Well, one of June's most, it was fun to watch your reaction to it. I don't know if you want to bring it back to your memory, but what Matthew Lillard did to himself. When he licked his own nipple, he didn't lick it,

he just touched it, like, sexually. I was really upset it were it was Were you more upset by that act of sexuality or the fact that Fisher Stevens and Lorraine Bracco were involved? Never seen two bodies not not to come together Magnets to Magnus not want to come together more. Not make any sense. Like two magnets, two magnets pushing each other. They did not line up right at all. Like when they approach, it took me so long to realize they were meant to be love interests that when they finally made it so explicit,

I was like, oh, oh no. Oh no, we can't do this. Please, Joan. This doesn't work at all. I have to say, like, I like Lorraine Bracco. There is something though in her voice that computer jargon in her voice is not it Yeah, it does not work. So that her lines became like

Commenting on that. She was like hard drive. Bah bah bah. I don't know. What are we talking about here? Yeah, listen listen to though This is a montage at the end when they're trying to explain to Lorraine Bracco how the guys are getting in and this is The most techno babble. It's great Just take a listen Like a Pac-Man Bug attacking all like in an overlay fire run antivirus give me a systems display die dick weeds

It's like it's a video game. Yeah, it is an administration system send a flu shot Shots someone talk to me Here hold on more second multiple GPI and FSI virus Roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, roll, if we can break down Pendulet's role, he is a security guard in the computer, like of the computer. Like it would be as if you put someone inside your computer. And then Fisher Stevens goes inside the computer with him. And the whole, all of it, all of the computer, this is what we just listened to, was the scene where all the hackers are attacking Fisher Stevens' company. Yes.

The Gibson company. Company. They're inundating them with viruses. And all it is, it sounds like, is video games. Oh, and they literally... And he's like, I'll head him off at the pass? What do you mean, I'll head him off at the pass? And they literally have a Pac-man icon eating code like

Wow, and a rabbit jumping around it is Gobbledy gook nonsense and it also combines a lot of different things It's like in this world hackers are gamers and gamers and hackers are skateboarders slash rollerbladers. Yep, like it's like it's Motorcyclists. Yes. It's like everything is all in one package It's like it's kind of what I mean, Iist. Yes, it's like everything is all in one package. It's like, it's kind of what, I mean, I guess what they do in Furious in the Fast and Furious movies, they just don't do it as aggressively.

Oh, absolutely. Like they're all- I mean, Ludacris in those movies and the woman in the most recent one, the woman from Game of Thrones, they are able to effortlessly access anything from like an old Motorola razor phone They can be like I'm in the NSA immediately, you know

It's crazy. Well, this is just like that only much stupider looking I have a question for you guys the movie opens up with a slow-mo montage of SWAT coming in by the way anytime in this movie anyone's hacking SWAT coming in. By the way, anytime in this movie anyone's hacking, SWAT just sends. Guns. Guns on children. Multiple guns on children. And if you did any research, especially for the Johnny Lee Miller character, that kid was eight years old or 11 years old, like, he didn't need to come in with a full complement of SWAT team. Nor did he need, like, a federal trial. And he was a minor. Nor did I need to see his butt when he gets arrested. Oh yeah.

When he fell down. There's like a bunch of little boy butt in this movie that I didn't know. I was like, what is going on? We see Matthew Lillard's butt. We see this kid Joey or Johnny's butt. Like I was like, wow, why are we looking at this kid's butt? I want to talk about-

The kid who oftentimes is smoking two cigarettes at once. This kid's story is bonkers. I did love the actress who played his mom. Oh, great. She was just on fire. All right, you're not grounded. Joey was great. Joey was amazing because Joey was wearing,

and I don't know if you caught this, I caught it on the unre watching it, headphones in the shower that had Ziploc bags on them. So he could sing his song. Not the idea of just playing a radio in there. He had to be wearing his headphones in the shower. That's what kids did. They wore their Walkman everywhere. And I also thought that Johnny Lee Miller

gets too soapy in the shower. When they cut to him in the shower, his body was almost covered in soap. And he had just gotten in the shower. He was almost covered. He had just gotten in the shower He lathers quick who lathered up co wick I love when Joey is in after he's busted and he's put in the apartment and they're the police are Staking out his place the guy goes there. It's all ADR. There's so much terrible ADR in this movie, but you hear the agents voice go Suspect is still inside suspect is still grounded by his mother. Who else grounds people, asshole?

And he's like 14. The FBI didn't ground him, you fucking dick. Well, sometimes. By his mother. The condescension in his voice is amazing. But also, I would argue that in this movie, the penalties are kind of ridiculous. When Johnny Lee Miller does this whole thing about a

crashed 1507 systems, what does that even mean? Yeah. His mom, he can't use a touch tone phone or a computer until he's 18, which is a crazy, like how do you enforce that penalty? Use a touch tone phone. You can't use a touch tone phone or a You can't use a touch-tone phone. What do you think happened between his mom and dad?

I was really curious about that too. I don't know. Because it seemed like, you know, that opening shot of the SWAT team arriving at their house and you, like they sort of turn around the corner of the house and you see her. I did love that. And then the dad seemed to be very present at the trial. Well, look, they- And then they head off to Grimsville, New York City in this like one-bedroom apartment

where she's sleeping on the couch. Well, remember they reconcile for a little while. They split up, then they get back together. Well, we only know that through- Well, we only- I know, I know. We don't know why. What happened? What happened? To add that detail that like they had a moment of-

Oh, yeah. Getting back. I mean, do you think that this kid broke them apart? Did Dade slash Zero Cool break them apart? Well, I think what we do know is that all divorces are the kids' fault. Yeah, I mean, I think that's true no matter what you're talking about. If people split up, it's because of the kids. Well, of course, because he's an only child, so it's for sure his fault. They put a pressure on the marriage. Amen. They do. Yeah. Amen. Amen. Wait, you just wait Jason. Why are you guys giving each other the finger? Yeah. Just wait. Giving each other the finger. What's going on?

The thing that was so confusing to me in this movie was I thought for sure, like they repeat Gene Lee Miller's backstory a million times. Like not only does the movie open with his backstory, uh, they keep on telling you that he crashed these systems. And at a certain point when they're calling him an elite hacker, because I guess he knew how to identify different workbooks, uh, that's the red book. I mean, it's a book of the red coat. He changed his English class in school. I mean, that's it.

Oh yeah. They were impressed with that. He was able to hack into the AP English class, which also Matthew Lillard hacked, or he didn't hack into, he just showed up in the AP class for no reason. Why didn't he show up to write something on the blackboard and then be like, Oh, guess I'm out of here. Like, oh, that hacker. There were so many strange details though.

Like Angelina Jolie's mom being a self-help guru, writing these books. Like, I mean, that's never called bad. I mean, there's just some details in this movie that are baffling. Well, there's some funny moments, too, because that idea, like, they're all writing quotes from literature on the board. And like, you know, Matthew Liddard writes,

like, of all the things I lost, I miss my mind the most. And then- It's Ozzy Osbourne. Ozzy Osbourne, and then Johnny Lee Miller is writing a quote about, it was a good quote. Ginsburg. Ginsburg, right.

And then Angelina Jolie is like, the only reason why they gave men bigger brains than dogs is so they wouldn't hump your leg at parties. Cocktail parties. At cocktail parties. And then they're like, who wrote that? She's like, my mother. And he goes, well, we're looking for somebody

who is actually a contemporary of this age. She goes, her last book sold two million copies. And it's like, that's a great, like, all right, so what are we doing here? What are we doing? What are we doing? It's all great stuff. It's just whatever.

But these comebacks in the same thing, when they call the plague Eugene she's like okay, Eugene Goes I'm the plague and then rips a piece of paper Yeah, people are like very This movie is like if you told me somebody If you told me an alien wrote this movie thinking it would be like, oh, this is what Earth teens are like Or or or if you told me like at this era like the Cold War era like the Russians wrote this movie like that This it feels like someone else's idea of what this of what youth culture was then

Yeah, I mean it does not feel like it's at all in touch with anything real the way that like John Hughes I was gonna say John Hughes like nails it. Other teen movies get it. This feels like very tone-deaf to both hacking. Yeah, which is it's startlingly tone-deaf, but especially Don't worry about it Were you at hack stock? Especially like teen stuff. It doesn't make sense at all. No, it doesn't feel like there's anything. Because again, the story about him and his mom is sort of interesting and feeling like,

you know, he's been displaced because of her and I just restarted. It's got like the karate kid opening. It has the structure of that, but then, and she's also used as a threat at one point, but then it's just never really resolved. I also don't get that Angelina Jolie and him are, like, they don't, it's like it's there because it has to be there, but you don't feel like it's really there. There's no real chemistry between them. No.

How about the scene where he has computer disks tucked into his belt like a gun? I just wrote them down. Like a gun, like a guy, like a gangster's got a gun tucked in his belt and he's taking, he's like pulling it out like quick draw style as if he's gonna be called upon as if he's going to be called upon to have like a showdown, a gunfight at the OK Corral with computer disks and the first, the fastest draw of pulling a computer disk out of your belt is gonna win. What the fuck is going on? That blew my mind. This is not important and it goes up to my next thing which can we all agree all of us out there listening all of us in here that never again do we ever need to say on film or in movies are you talking to

me? Yeah. Like I think like when he did that thing you talking to me? Yeah. Like I think like when he did that thing, you talking to me? Yeah, like what is like he's doing like he's doing the Robert De Niro scene I feel like I've seen that Robert De Niro scene So many times and for him to pull out a disc and say you talking to me really upset really I don't I don't want to see I don't know if I want to say I never want to see it again. Really? Yeah, if it's interpreted well, I mean, I'm open to it. Here's the scene I wanna talk about. When Fisher Stevens is, when everything's going down,

where he's waging war, which by the way, like what, I don't know what's happening, like how viruses are attacking other viruses, and I have no idea what's going on, but at one point he pulls out a scallion or a... What? He pulls out a scallion or a... What?

He pulls out a long green snack and starts eating it. Oh yeah, I remember what you mean. What is that? He's definitely eating a candy bar in one scene. No, it's not the candy bar. You guys. I know, I remember what you mean. He's eating out a long...

It looks like a vegetable but it's brighter green than that. I feel like it's like a long piece of taffy or candy or because he's eating candy throughout the movie It probably is like hackers do or maybe it's a Jolly Rancher Because it looks like an asparagus. Okay, it looks like they used to make a big Jolly Ranchers They're like long thick Jolly Ranchers. Yeah, like they were like like they're most like they were like they were like No, they were like candy bar, but even bigger size. They were just flat I do remember they weren't that big where your hands are all right? Oh, yeah Yeah, you know back like a score bar. Yeah exactly. Yes exactly. Yes exactly

Does the score bar still exist? I'm sure I haven't been really a candy place I liked I used to love her can't remember going to the candy store? Oh my gosh I got myself a symphony bar I like the symphony bar. Really? Yeah I like the symphony bar. Interesting. But I mean yeah. I used to get a whatchamacallit. Whatchamacallit. Or a $100,000 bar. Those are my two favorites too? Before it was called a hundred grand. No thanks. I would get one of those magic tape dispensers which was bubble gum and I would pretty much put the entire thing in my mouth and chew it. Which is still your problem to this day.

You do not take more. I know, I chew way too much gum. Yeah. At the same time. At the same time. I must have, it used to be I could, I would rather have no pieces of gum than just one. Really?

Yes. Because one piece of gum to use, it's not enough gum. It's child's play. So you're an elite gum chewer, would you say? And then I was like, you know what? I'm going to always need two. And then I crossed the threshold, and now I must have three, if I'm going to have any. So I have to buy her those tubs of gum.

Gum tubs? Yeah, they're those giant ones that are like 150 pieces. You guys go to Costco just for gum? And I don't chew gum all the time, but if I'm going to, I have that amount of flavor. But by the way, you'll power through, I was amazed that you powered through the 150 pieces of gum.

Yeah. In how long? A week? I would say, yeah. A month, maybe a month. 150 pieces in a month. And is it sugar-free? A week?

What are we talking here? If I know it's in the car, I'm gonna power through all of it. Okay, I have a question. How long do you chew those three pieces of gum for? Right until the flavor's over and then I start up again. Which is how long? Like, five minutes?

I was gonna say, is it, I don't, cause- It's not very long. Oh wow, you really get it, yeah. I am the opposite. I do not chew gum. I'm with you. Ever. I think it's gross to chew gum.

Why not? I don't, A, I think it's gross, and B, it makes me hungry. Yeah, it makes me hungry too. It does the opposite. People oftentimes are like, oh, I chew gum. It quenches my appetite or whatever. I don't chew gum because the minute I do,

it's like Pavlovian, like, oh, the mastication motion makes me feel like I must be eating now, and I get kind of hungry, and then it's like, oh no, you're not eating at all. You're just having a dumb dumb piece of gum you asshole. I think for me it's it's about I don't smoke anymore but I miss that experience that ritual and the sort of oral fixation of smoking right and now that that's gone it feels like it's something that I can do that is safe for me. Well you should start like

just really hardcore vaping. Yeah, you would look so cool. Just really hardcore e-cigarettes. You would look so sexy with a nice vape pen out there. Yeah, just like puffing away on your vape pen with those giant clouds of ridiculous smoke. So could I vape right here? Yes. I believe you could.

That's crazy. It would be insane if you did. Oh, disaster. By the way, I would like it if you really adopted a vape lifestyle. Like a real, and it's not like you're not putting marijuana in there. No, just straight like tobacco or whatever they are. Whatever the EEE tobaccos are or whatever.

And yeah, and you were just like a hardcore vapor with it like on your belt. I do, I appreciate, sometimes I'll see people with a pretty intense vape pen like oh, yeah, like it's it looks like a lightsaber Yeah Handle but sometimes like coming out of like if you've seen the vape pens that are like they look like an iPad or no And I an iPod and they have a stick out. Oh, yeah, that's another one It's like it's very like you gotta start vaping June June. I've never tried it. I would be open to trying it Absolutely Yeah, of course. It's healthy for you, right? It's not it is actually healthy. No, it's not. It's healthy for you

It is like taking vitamins Everything is like vitamins. That's why they call me. I'm definitely gonna do it. The V is for vitamins You know what you should do because I'm you know, a lot of women that I know now are doing prenatal vape The V is for vitamins. Ha ha ha. Yeah. Oh. You know what you should do? Because I'm, you know, a lot of women that I know now are doing prenatal vape. Oh, yeah. Those are great.

Just the prenat vape. Just get used to a dead body. Yeah. And their hair looks great for it. You got to get that vape. And it's got all the, yep. Your skin looks really good for the baby. Also, and after babies too, there's

a lot of placenta vaping going on. Oh, yeah. They just grind that placenta down into a vapeable substance and you just vape that centa, bro. Gotta vape that centa. And by the way, they can get that on the black market. It is expensive.

Get it on the dark web, hackers. Did you guys notice? I love that we have ground this talk to an absolute halt to discuss candy bars, gum, and vaping. Snackin' with the How Did This Get Made? group. Oh yeah! I love that segment. How Did This Get Made? How Did This Get Made?

Did you guys remember, did you guys notice the character that was in another How Did This Get Made? movie? Hmm. It's the same exact character. If you haven't noticed it, maybe you just didn't catch it. It was the robot that holds a gun from Runaway was also in this movie. Oh my God. Another robotic arm holding a gun.

Another robot with a handgun. I'm glad that guy's getting work. By the way, what is Angelina Jolie shooting when she shoots that thing at the top? What is that? It's a flare gun. A flare gun. But that seems to me more violent than a gun.

Have you shot a flare gun at close range? Oh, yeah, that guy is ten feet away and he's lit on fire That is like what she did would literally be like I believe a federal offense Oh like shooting a flare gun at people. Yeah. No, I'm But it was so cool, oh man, she's the best I was gonna say this is the most conspicuous group in Chinatown, like when they're around the phone doing stuff. They are, like they're trying to like,

Matthew Lillard's like looking out, the other guy's like looking out the corner. They are literally, like you would look at them and go, hey, what the fuck is going on over here? They are not, they are not smooth, they are not subtle. But I feel like the movie is like positing this idea that like, oh, that's what the world the world is groups of hackers clustered around public phones just hacking the planet man Oh, and I love Wendell Pierce in this movie from the wire bunk from the wire

He's so great when he gets he did something that made me laugh But they kind of like focused their hacking attention And I thought that actually was the best use of hacking in this movie. Like they did like a whole thing where they kind of wreck his life and they, uh, they make him look like he has a little excessive 137 driving violations and a DUI, which I thought just seemed a little bit ridiculous. They also made him, um, register for a sex hotline and they, and they cut his, um, credit card. They turned off his credit card.

So much so that the waiter came to the table and cut it with scissors in front of him. So defiantly. Isn't that the thing that used to happen though? Yes. I thought about that too. Because I remember, I believe I saw my mother's credit card cut in front of her.

That was the thing. I used to tell you to cut the credit card. Now I think they have better systems to be like, yeah. But yeah, they cut it. Oh boy. But I was going to say, my favorite moment with him was when the sex line, he's getting all these phone numbers calling him like, oh, I want to fuck you.

I want to suck your feet. I want to come on your balls. Like, he goes, wait, did somebody say I want to come on your balls? Yeah, it's in there. It's in there. It's as low. I want the stuff that comes out of my balls

to land on your balls. That's my new shirt. I want to come on your balls. Balls to new shirt. I want to come on your balls. Balls to balls. So he literally like picks up the phone, like and he wipes his hand off as if the handle is dirty. See that I get because like if I ever am on a phone call with someone who's sick, it makes me feel,

it makes me feel like I have just been exposed to that illness. I feel like, oh just been exposed to that illness. I feel like, oh, it's such craziness. Oh, absolutely. Don't worry, I'm talking about in therapy, guys. This happens in movies a lot, where someone's getting a gazillion phone calls and they frantically try to answer all of them on that phone. Yes, all the phone lights are blinking.

I have to imagine that if I was getting that many calls on a phone like that, I'd just pull out the plug. Like, something's happening. There's no way to handle this. I want to say again that the character that is Johnny, Joey, the kid, who is repeatedly smoking cigarettes in both hands. I didn't notice that. In between, in both hands, like this.

As if, like, that's, I was trying to figure that one out. And then he's in the addicts meeting and he's like, I'm not an addict. Yeah, he's not an addict. And they're all like, boo. And he's, and it's the point, he's like, he's smoking a cigarette and drinking chugging coffee. And he's like, I'm not an addict.

I'm going to go get more coffee. He's like, all they're doing is showing that he's constantly addicted to things. It is so stupid and I could not figure it out. And then the other guy who has a photographic memory. Well, first of all, I didn't like him repeating that woman's address and all of that. You didn't think I was telling you normal that the girl who doesn't know how he knows her name,

he knows everything about her photographically? But he seemed to be offering that information, like, hey guys, this is where she lives and what time she's gonna be home at night. Well, again, the other thing I wanna, there's a couple of things we're talking about, we'll get to second opinions in a second, but I wanted to talk about the passwords

that they say are the most common passwords. Love. Yes. Sex. Secret. God. God. Were those ever?

No. Nope. The most common passwords are like 1, 2, 3, 4, 0, 0, 0, 0. The word password. Really? Yeah. None of these are the most common passwords. No.

What are you talking about? The most common password is secret. What? Fuck you assholes That was that was super lame And then I didn't understand when Johnny Lee Miller walked around and he was seeing old clips of movies Oh like dream on like that's not a hacker thing that's the other thing like when he's hacking and he's hacking and he's hacking and then he like, and he gets, he closes his eyes and it's like quick cuts through

like, yes, old movies and TV shows as if that's what's going on in the mind of a hacker. And it wasn't there all the time. Dream On though is also by the way, a reference that 90% of these, the people watching, or listening to this podcast are gonna get, but it is like channel surfing old TV is what they're saying is a hacker's brain. Well, I wonder if something does happen to their brains.

I mean, they're spending their entire days looking at these numbers and data and all of that. Yes, but I can't imagine what they see when they close their eyes is like a clip from His Girl Friday. I don't know, I don't know. A clip from the close their eyes is like a clip from His Girl Friday. I don't know. I don't know. All I'm saying is their brains might be different. Well, I would say like a 90s.

Their brains, June, you're right, their brains might be different. They're just hacked into the old 1950s films. There are things that have happened to our brains after staring at screens for so long. Things happen to our brains. Well, Jen, I really like your, your anim, not animosity, but your legitimate fears of technology are compelling. Jen, tell, tell Jason, tell Jason what happened when I brought home BB-8. Oh, you brought home BB-8, the robot?

The robot from Star Wars. I got the little remote control. First of all, I didn't know what the fuck it was. You just brought it home. You didn't know what it was, but you say that in a way that is like, even to look at it, you wouldn't conceptually understand what it was fundamentally.

I hoped that it was some sort of character figurine. As if he brought home Gizmo, the Gremlin. All I know is he placed it on a floor and started roaming about, and I didn't like it. You said to me, what was the first question you asked? I don't remember. What's its mission? What's its mission?

What? What's its mission? What is it here for? Oh my god, what's its mission? What is it here for? Oh my god, what's its mission? Did you go to the book to be like, oh boy, let me look at this? No, I did the worst thing, which is like, don't you worry about it. It will monitor our house. It's just here to take pictures.

Oh my god. I think I have a healthy skepticism. And then you told me immediately as I took it off the floor, what'd you say to me? I don't remember. You said, get the fuck out of here, I'm gonna throw it in the garbage. It is now hidden from June.

BVA cannot be out in public in June. Oh my god, I love that. Let me hit you guys with- What is its mission? Let me hit you crazy with some truth here about the movie. Some things that you may not have known about the movie. Katherine Heigl was offered the Angelina Jolie role. She had to unfortunately turn it down

due to Under Siege 2, Dark Territory. Oh wow. So that was interesting. Could have been a- I didn't realize she was working that much at that point. Other actresses that were out for the part, Hilary Swank, Heather Graham, and Liv Tyler. Tyler would have been interesting.

Ed Norton was supposed to be the main, the main lead. Oh, I like that. At one point. Now here's the interesting thing that is kind of great. The screenplay was written by Ralph Moreau, who is highly inspired by hacker and cyberpunk subcultures. Like he went deep and he was interested in hacking. is highly inspired by hacker and cyberpunk subcultures. Like he went deep and he was interested in hacking. Now is he Dr. Moro's son? That's what I think.

No, but this is, he basically did, he went to a meeting, went to hacker conventions. So maybe at this point, this is what the culture of hacking was like. I don't believe it to be conventions. So maybe at this point, this is what the culture of hacking was like. I don't believe it to be true. I don't think so. I think probably he, I bet he wrote something that was more subtle

and people were like, we have to be incredibly explicit with this because people are not gonna understand. Yeah, I guess so. That's why I think the director made choices. I mean, like oftentimes what they show in hacking is like as if a helicopter is flying through skyscrapers made of math equations

overshredding guitar. You know, like flying through buildings made of motherboards while it's like Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee What may have been true though is they may, hackers may have been more communal in like 1995 than they are now. Right. There was definitely a hacker convention. Here's the little final piece of truth and you can read more, you can hear more about the film. You can hear everything about it from Blake Harris's article on Slashfilm.

Go check it out. It is out today. It's a great read about this movie. He got the director, everybody involved to talk about this film, which just celebrated 20 years of anniversary. Wow. Yeah. So here's the thing. MGM UA set up a website for hackers that was then immediately hacked by hackers. I love it. So the internet liberation front hacked it. And on the front page was a photograph of Angelina Jolie and John A. Lee Miller. And, uh, and, and then the words were, this is going to be an interesting, fun promotional site for a movie. That was what was on it, which is kind of meta.

And then it was replaced with this is going to be a lame, cheesy promotional site for a movie. And that's what, that's what the hackers did. Awesome. This is the movie is going to be lame. So that's, I think the level of hacking back then, like just putting up like, this is lame. Like, I feel like that's what the hackers did. That's awesome. This movie's gonna be lame. So that's, I think, the level of hacking back then. Just putting up like, this is lame. I feel like that's it.

They weren't having fully animated cartoon discussions back and forth between hackers as this movie posits. Oh, yeah, yeah. I don't think it was. And I also don't think what they were doing when they were hacking was what is represented in this I mean in terms of like Making rabbits jump along and eat code or whatever man invading blah none of that stuff But I do think like they were doing the kind of attacks that they are talking about in the movie like you know

Take it trying to get hold of banks. Yes trying to down security systems, trying to find back doors into blah blah blah, all of that stuff. I guess what I'm saying is, I feel like the majority... Worms and viruses, I think, were very prevalent. Yes. Oh, we didn't even talk about the Da Vinci virus. Oh, isn't that amazing? We didn't talk about the Da Vinci virus. The Da Vinci virus, which is basically like the surfer dude, like who is... the Da Vinci virus was literally Leonardo Da Vinci. But not... but they kept on going, that's Da Vinci.

But Da Vinci's drawing of man, right? That image of like the multi-armed, multi-legged guy, that's not da Vinci, that's not a self-portrait, is it? I don't know. Oh, we're gonna have, you know, if, ooh, if we're gonna figure this out, we're gonna have to go to Hudson Hawk. Oh yeah, we gotta get,

all right, we're gonna get back to you, we're gonna revisit Hudson Hawk. Uh, but this gotta get... Alright, we're gonna get back to you, we're gonna revisit Hudson Hawk. Well, this is gonna be another one of those things where people freak out that we don't know something that everybody's like, this is universal knowledge. Oh, I got slammed because someone wrote in on the podcast last week that any, that Super Nintendo made a video game of Life Force, and I referenced that on the mini episode, and that's not true. It has nothing to do with Life Force and my inbox Just a game called life force Yes, I've been full. How could you make that kind of mistake? I don't know. I trust I trust our listeners Oh, yeah, what I don't understand is are you a how are you so stupid to not know that offhand? I know B

Are you not doing all of the research necessary to record all of this information? Look, I'm gonna tell you one thing that some guy wrote me on Twitter and goes, let me just tell you, your knowledge of NES is lame. Awesome. And I was like, thank you. Thank you. Quite comfortable. Thank you.

I'm producing this free podcast for you. Yeah, and also I'm comfortable with my knowledge of NES being lame. Like in the grand scheme of things, I'm fine with it. Okay, obviously we had an opinion about this movie, but there are other people out there that had a different opinion. It is now time for Second Opinions! Second Opinions

Second Opinions Now that was from Michael Ficus, who I apologize, we've never given him credit for his song. Thank you Michael for making that song. But seriously trim back that Ficus Michael. Hey. Alright so these are 5 star reviews cold from Amazon. Here we go. From S. Adkins.

Finally, I can enjoy hackers on Blu-ray. What a masterpiece. Of course I don't even have a Blu-ray player come to think of it, but maybe one day, and when I do, I will play this disc that I purchased. Until then, I will continue watching the ripped version from the DVD that I purchased years ago. Five stars. Oh my god. That was written September 19th, 2015. What?

Yes. Whoa. OK. This is a great one here. 100% accurate movie is written by Jacob Wallace. I wasn't allowed to use a touch-tone phone until I was 18 because of this movie. 100% factually accurate. Five stars.

Why are they making such a distinction between a touch tone phone and just a regular phone? I guess because you can do so the beeps. Yeah touch tone phone is like you could hack stuff with just the tones That's how they're getting free calls and stuff like that. I say yeah, I'm gonna go this one's a little bit long But it's worth it this by Lynn This has been one of my all-time favorite movies since I saw it the first time in This has been one of my all time favorite movies since I saw it the first time in 1995 on a blockbuster rental. Loved it then, loved the dub I made of it,

loved everything I rented, and loved it when I bought it, and will love the Blu-ray, and the special features that come with it. First paragraph done. Saw it the first time just after I did an analysis in film class and recognized it as a well-made film. Everything about it was good.

Acting, script, casting, each of the characters, even though it's not up to today's standards of what hacking is, because that's funny, is a well-made film with good to excellent actors and all of them make up an ensemble that shines even today. Look, I can't address the music or the other things, but the characters are delightful. Each of the hackers had a different character so they could play off the others without interfering with their acting or personas They were obviously having a good time. Well, here's what I mean. Yes, and and I want to say like

Like Matthew Broderick in war games. a more compelling hacker than in this movie. Like, I want to make sure to be clear, like, there is something inherently counterculture and interesting about hackers. You know, it's just, that's not what's on display really in this movie. Or like the TV show WizKids was a more interesting version of hacking kids, you know. I would say that Mr. Wizard is kind of even more interesting than hacking because he's at least giving you like little science hacks.

Yeah. These guys didn't show me anything about that quarter thing. Here, I want to finish this review. I wasn't- Oh, sorry. I didn't even realize we were mid-review. Oh no. I wasn't a kid when I saw this film.

I was probably 50 plus and had classes in film school. Since I've been seeing films since my mom carried me in the womb, I'm a film buff. Wait a minute. And I'm particular. You can't not see from inside the womb. I'm particular about what I see. This one made me laugh. It caught and kept my attention all the way through.

The characters were an ensemble I've come to learn and each was well cast and played off each other and were funny and had good comic timing and took direction well. How does she know? I don't know. Took direction well. I mean, they really, this person really knows the term ensemble. The Plague was great, as was God, who would become Tony Soprano's therapist. One of those amazing films with breakthrough parts for actors like

Johnny Lee Miller Elementary and Angelina Jolie. And that was written also in September of 2015. By the way, what was Lorraine Bracca's role in this? She was kind of the head of the company. She was the head of Gibson PR. Oh, she was the head of PR. And she was standing to make a lot of money from it? Half of 25 million.

Yeah, she and Fisher Stevens were skimming money from the company. It was basically the same scam as Superman 4. Yes. They were skimming fractions of a penny off of each transaction and it was going to equal 25 million dollars and then they created the Da Vinci virus to cover up that. That oh okay I didn't realize that. So much stuff. So now it makes much more sense right? I liked it. Well guys now we that so much stuff. So now it makes much more sense, right? well guys Would you guys recommend seeing hackers I would

Sure, I guess Not particularly. Well, there you go. I think it's worth the 299 or whatever But here is a couple things we just gonna get out on front of the way here a big shout out to our friend a couple things we're just gonna get out in front of the way here. A big shout out to our friend Lawrence Marcy who wrote us a really nice note about the show and we are glad that you are enjoying it. We appreciate that. June, what do you want to have a plug in? I don't really have any plugs. Okay. That's fine. Jason, any plugs?

Um, I mean, not really. I mean, follow us on Twitter. Yeah. HDTGM. Um, oh, I've got a small part in the movie The Night Before, which is out right now. Seth Rogen, Anthony Mackie, Joe Gordon-Levitt. Very funny. Yeah, funny movie. Go see that. And you do play Santa in that movie. I play a Santa in that movie. And did they use your real beard? Yes. Oh, really? No. I have a... I fell for my own, my own bitch. You said it so, you said it so matter of fact. I'm going to think about what is its mission, like all the time. Oh, what is this mission is never left me.

It's the best thing of all time. A big shout out to, uh, Averill Halley who pulled all of our clips, Nate, Kylie, Marissa, Zaitz, everybody here at Earwulf. Uh, thank you guys for listening. Uh, and, uh and just one word to everybody out there, hack the planet.