How Did This Get Made? - Matinee Monday: Reindeer Games

Episode Date: December 19, 2022

Howard Kremer (Who Charted?) joins the HDTGM crew to break down a holiday-themed movie that came out two months after December, the 2000 crime-thriller Reindeer Games. They sound off on Ben Affleck's love of pecan pie, the terrible open-mouth kissing, and the bonkers Ashton Kutcher cameo. Plus, we learn about Paul's intimate relationship history with his mom. There are no reindeer games here, happy holidays people of earth! (Originally released 12/25/2012) For more Matinee Monday content, visit Paul's YouTube page: https://www.youtube.com/c/PaulScheer Buy Drop Dead Fred LIVE on Vinyl: https://hdtgm.bandcamp.com/Buy tix for June's pickleball tourney: https://www.janeclub.com/pickleball Go to www.hdtgm.com for tour dates, merch, and more.Follow Paul on Letterboxd: https://letterboxd.com/paulscheer/HDTGM Discord: discord.gg/hdtgmPaul’s Discord: https://discord.gg/paulscheerCheck out Paul and Rob Huebel live on Twitch (https://www.twitch.tv/friendzone) every Thursday 8-10pm ESTSubscribe to The Deep Dive with Jessica St. Clair and June Diane Raphael here: listen.earwolf.com/deepdiveSubscribe to Unspooled with Paul Scheer and Amy Nicholson here: listen.earwolf.com/unspooledCheck out The Jane Club over at www.janeclub.comCheck out new HDTGM merch over at https://www.teepublic.com/stores/hdtgmWhere to find Jason, June & Paul:@PaulScheer on Instagram & Twitter@Junediane on IG and @MsJuneDiane on TwitterJason is not on Twitter

Ben Affleck, boobies, cowboy costumes, and a cameo by Ashton Kutcher. We saw reindeer games, so you know what that means. Now it's time for How did this campaign Gonna have a good time Celebrate some failure Not just be a hater Cause you know you wonder

How did this campaign Let's all win the mediocrity Of subpar art Perhaps we'll find the answer To the question How did this campaign Hello people of Earth And welcome to our very special Christmas Day edition of

How did this get made? Happy holidays, I am Paul Shear Joined as always by Jason Manzukas What's happening? And June Diane Rayfield How are you June? Good, how are you Paul? Very good, today we have a very special guest

You know him from the wildly successful, the fantastically funny Who charted Howard Kramer Please welcome Howard to the show Hey guys, how are you? This is our, technically this is our Christmas episode So we are very excited to bring you Man, what a treat Reindeer games

The last John Frankenheimer movie By the way, not a treat Not a treat This is a perfect Christmas movie for anyone Did this come out around the holidays? Oh, I'm sure of it, yeah John Frankenheimer, just to give you an idea Of what this guy directed

Directed some great movies in the past French connection, right? Yeah, Iceman, Cometh, Grand Prix Manchurian candidate, Seven Days in May And it all ended with this Ben Affleck Movie with Charlize Theron, Gary Sinise And... Ashton Kutcher

And Ashton Kutcher Oh, I forgot about Ashton Kutcher Oh, and Gary Sinise's hair And Donald Logan Oh, guys, by the way, it came out February 25th It missed the Christmas mark Oh, no So that means that this movie was so bad

Normally they would dump a movie like this At Christmas time, you'd be like, oh, just suck it up We'll get Christmas money No, they released it two months after This is almost in March You released a Christmas movie That's appalling This movie...

It was done clearly by December This movie sucked This movie was awful I hated watching this This movie is everything that's bad About the movies that we watched To me, I was like freaking out I was so angry at how bad the movie was

I had... Look, I had some issues with it But, you know, look, I'm a fan of twists and turns And I love some sexy acting The first thing that comes to my mind about this movie Is the sex scene That is pretty like... Charlize Theron and Ben Affleck have this sex scene

That is a little graphic Oh, yeah In the sense of what you're seeing You don't normally see the part of the man That connects from the waist to the upper butt cheek It's like a weird area Minitour looking Yeah, you don't really see...

Wait a minute, wait a minute Minitour looking Yes, because there was a shot of him That's what I'm talking about You're describing it Where you couldn't see his legs But you did see sort of right above the ass And it just looked like...

It didn't look like a full humane It looked minitour It looked very minitour It was very weird That sex scene, because I was... I fully was like, oh, they're gonna have sex No, all right Whoa!

And listen, I'm not gonna complain Because it was sexy But then I had a real problem with... I'm just not having sex correctly But does anybody in the room Have so much sex in a hotel room or wherever That you're on the bed, you're off the bed You're fucking on the floor

And then you fall asleep on the floor? I just get up and... Like that's what they do They fuck so much That they fall asleep on the floor next to the bed I was like, there is a bed right there The only thing in this room is a bed Happened in Twilight 2

They fuck so hard They fall asleep on the floor That's true They are exhausted They are too exhausted There's also in this movie a lot of Open-mouthed kissing That's very, like, disgusting

Like, it's like... Super wet kisses Super wet, wide kisses That are not appealing It's like, just too wide mouths Going at each other I mean, we'll get into a spoilers section But there is a Gary Sinise

And I won't say who the woman is, he's kissing A kiss that I was like, what the fuck Is this? It's just, nobody kisses like that It's like kids who've seen their parents kiss Trying to kiss, like, open mouth, right? That's how we do it Is that what happened to you?

I tried to French kiss my mom when I saw the love boat one time No! Yeah! No! She got really freaked out What? I thought that was it I thought that's how you'd kill an adult to do it

Like, I saw it on TV And I was like, oh, I've been... Like, my mom gave me a kiss Like, go to bed one time And I was like, ah And I was like, whoa, whoa What are you doing? She caught me way before I got close

But, ah That's huge Hey, man, this is a pretty startling revelation Yeah, let's get into it I didn't know you had this whole French kiss And your mom thing going on Yeah, man, I tried to kiss my mom like Gary Sinise I gave her the full-blown Sinise

Also, I mean, I guess this is... I mean, this is a dumb thing to, like, pick on But, you know, Ben Affleck and Shirley Sirone Both very attractive people I know movies are about attractive people And stuff, but I couldn't get a read on Like, are these supposed to be ugly people? Or are they supposed to be, like, really attractive people?

That's a really good point Because a big part of the movie is that she's set up We'll find out what her real intentions are later But she's set up as a woman who's writing letters to prisoners And she writes... And she's Shirley Sirone And she's Shirley Sirone And we learn a little bit more about her

That she's in a small town She's had a tough go of it If she just got to a coastal city though She does know she's pretty She's super model-beautiful I mean, she is so stunning But that's what the thing is He says to her, why is such a good-looking girl like you

Doing this shit? Is this what you do? Remember when they've woken up from their slumber on the floor? He says, is this what you do? Why are you so beautiful? And she goes, well, when you're as beautiful as I am The guys that want you only want to fuck you They want to get inside They don't want to know about what...

They don't want to know what's inside you They just want to get inside Fucking control, alt, save That is a good line Save it And Frankenheimer is in I'm not the guy that was in the movie about 30 times Oh, yeah

Basically this whole movie Basically this whole movie is Ben Affleck is in prison He just steals cars, no big whoop This is, prison mate is a guy who stabs somebody Who was harassing his girlfriend And there is a fight that breaks out in jail His prison partner is killed The jail sequence is 10 to 15 minutes long

And is like an SNL sketch about jail It is so stupid It's actually really upsetting too I don't know, I watched it and I felt sick I felt really upset What is really upsetting about it? Because the cockroaches were in the... Oh, I just can't

It's disgusting So you know that one, he says, they are monsters in the jail What was Isaac Hayes doing in this movie? I want to play the part that Harold just talked about This is my favorite post-scene in the movie Monsters in the gelatin So they're eating some like, jelly What else wrong with you?

Monsters In the gelatine It's just a rotten shit It's protein, it's good for you Monsters In the gelatine Calm down Monsters

In the gelatine Monsters In the gelatine Look at this shit This starts, Jesus, this starts a full-on prison riot Because apparently the cooks They haven't just had one monster in the gelatine, one roach There, I guess everyone has tons of roaches in their holiday jello

And this starts a huge prison riot What do you think that it was an unusual day? Like, this is just a strange thing that happened How many roaches must there have been? Hundreds Did they do it to start the riot? Was it that elaborate of the plan? No, because at the end, when we hear

We will find out We will be outing how elaborate this plan could get Because it had so many moving parts It's insane And he benefit at the end of the movie And says like, how did you think this would work? Because at any point, something could have gone wrong Because when you realize at the end of the movie

What the plan has been all along It's impossible to have been executed Impossible It just requires so much acting, so much to go right Well, you know what, I feel like maybe it would be It would probably be better to serve everybody better To understand how it plays out So, the monsters in gelatine happen

Ben Affleck's roommate, his prison roommate gets killed And now Ben is all bummed He's like, well, I'm getting released from jail tomorrow My prison partner is gonna get released too He's gonna go meet up with Charlize Theron Maybe I'll take over for him And he decides that he's gonna take over the life Of his killed prison partner

Just to get laid by this hot girl Well, I do think he had some feelings for her Just reading the letters and stuff He definitely did He definitely did have some sort of attack You don't think it was entirely about sex? No, I don't And that's what they were counting on

Was that it was more than just sex But he speaks his subtext so much in the movie That I just, whatever he says he was thinking I just go with that Well, that's the best part! He's sitting on the bus thinking about whether or not He should try to go after Charlize Theron And he's like, don't do it, Nick

Don't do it How about when they're in the department store And she brings over some clothes to him And then she walks away and he looks at himself In the mirror in a crowded department store He goes, just get through the holidays Rudy, just get through the holidays Don't wreck her holidays

We'll tell her after Like a fucking Superman villain Like talking to himself in a mirror In a crowded store By the way, this is the only movie that I can recall That employs both talking to himself In a mirror or a window And also having voiceover narration too

Because there is also a voiceover narration That's me It's a lot of the camera going around So he's doing dual narration Dual narration by one character Was anybody else really uncomfortable at how Askew the close-ups were? Every close-up they would cut to was just like

Askew and a little off We were talking about this because Clostrophobia We were saying before we started taping that We had to take into effect when this movie Consideration when this movie was done So it was like 2000 And how we're saying that it's like

Quentin Tarantino, people were trying to emulate Tarantino Tarantino had come along And now these older guys are trying to Put a little Tarantino in their game And it felt like it was really trying Like the violence was a little bit more bloody It was like trying to be this cool thing So Ben Affleck takes over

The life of his prison partner And he forages this false relationship With Charlize Theron They're having a great time, they're having sex They're falling asleep on the floor They come home and Ben is attacked Attacked by these burly thug dudes I do want to talk about this

So he walks in the door and he gets Immediately like hitting the gut With like a baseball bat Goes down and at which point Another guy pops out of the closet Why was that guy hiding in the closet? Wait, there were three guys One guy, there was a guy in the bathroom

There was a guy in the closet How many people needed it? Again, when you understand the plan of this Not necessarily to have three guys to attack Ben And he recovers So easily from brutal beatings He is brutally beaten Over and over in this movie

And never has a mark on him, barely He has a bloody nose in the diner, that's it I will say that he does limp around From getting those darts thrown into him He gets about two darts He has a tortured darts scene Quentin Tarranty is like, let's torture him We'll do it darts, man, we'll do it darts

And he gets two darts in him And he's like, ugh, limping around Darts, pool darts Maybe they've gone a quarter of an inch in your body Maybe He's like, ugh So basically, we find out that Shirley's has a bad brother The bad brother wants him to rob a bank

Casino Casino, sorry, casino, because he worked in a casino But he didn't actually work in a casino The guy that he was prison mates worked in a casino And then he finds out that And he keeps trying to be like When he realizes the guys want him Because they think he's Nick, then they're going to say

Nick, help us rob the casino He starts to say, I'm not Nick It's not me, I'm impersonating him And the guy's like, so you're impersonating a guy To fuck my sister, you think that's going to get you out of this? And then he has to be like But what he said was he goes, you're acting like you You did all this so you could get down her chimney

Yeah There's a lot of Christmasy Christmasy wording, yeah, that's right And he does the Reindeer games line too And he says, I read your letters, don't play no Reindeer games with me I've never heard the expression Reindeer games Used Just in the song, that's it

Okay, so I kept on asking Paul I must have asked every five minutes Is Reindeer games a thing? Are Reindeer games? And what would Paul say? He said, yes, you actually said yes I said, yeah, it's from the song The Root Off the Red Nose Reindeer Well, I knew that, but I never heard this

term or expression Don't mess around Well, I don't think it has any other meaning Other than the song Reindeer is playing around There's no other context for it Wait, there aren't specific Reindeer games You guys have egg on your face

Because I looked today And on Urban Dictionary it came up It goes, Reindeer games Refers to any fun activities Which are enjoyed only by members of a clique Which is often Purposely made obvious to anyone Existing outside of said clique

In order to make them feel inadequate and left out So that would line up though Ben Affleck has no clique He has no clique, he's a man by himself By the way, so Ben Affleck So he's Rudolph in this scenario? Well, his name is Rudy What?

What is happening? What is happening? Boom, now that look at the symbolism No way The joke's on us The joke is on us What just happened? The movie just got interesting

That's the reveal Holy shit, my mind just imploded Are you kidding? And do you know what his friend's name was? Oh, no way Nick! Man, I wonder if we can see What was Gary Sinise's name?

Gabriel What was Charlize Theron's name? Ashley, but her real name was Blitzen Holy shit I wonder if did with it How we just got there Was unbelievable

I'm sure the audience was like ten minutes ago Like, hey assholes During the courtship of Ben and Charlize You know, she's buying them stuff Because Ben kind of looks like a villain From Back to the Future 1 Like, that's how he's dressed But she goes, I got a 50% off discount

She was so into that discount She was crazy about it She started laughing maniacally She's like 50% off But that's a huge discount That's a pretty good discount You're giving away the store at 50% off She was like drunk with power

That she was gonna go get 100 bucks off that coat She got that coat 50% off With her discount, that silver coat That was a crazy scene Where she was Right after they got together And they were in the diner First he didn't say hello to her

And he didn't when he got out of the prison And then he came back And so then you cut to the diner And he's like, yeah, I'm sorry, I just got freaked out I thought maybe you wouldn't like the way I looked And she's like, yeah, I thought the same I thought maybe you'd like see my coat She's Charlize there on it

He just got out of prison for five years I didn't think you'd think I was By the way, that coat was pretty ugly And that's the only way they could ugly her up And make her look pedestrian Is put her in ugly winter parkas It was a silver coat It wasn't like...

They give her a couple of things She wears a baseball cap and sunglasses That's how they ugly her down And then in the diner, the winter hat is off And her hair is perfectly styled up Can we talk about the second diner scene Where he eats pecan pie? I found that disgusting

I found The choice he made in eating that pecan pie To eat it as if He was like a starving person Who'd never eaten food, but like an animal Consuming pie I was like, is this a sexual thing? Like, what's going on

With why he's eating this pie this way? He started chewing up the scenery Literally It was such a weird Shift in tone because Up until then, it's all kind of sinister And then all of a sudden, he starts saying You know what? I want some hot chocolate

I want some goddamn hot chocolate Some fucking pecan pie Here's the funny thing about that too Is like, by the time that moment happens He has been out of jail He has had sex, he has eaten with Charlize Like, they have bought a Christmas tree together It's like, really?

Like, I mean, they got cookies Oh, that was a great lie When the guy goes, this guy's got a shit load of cookies It's a shit load of cookies Why did they buy so many Christmas cookies? Who fucking knows? This movie is dumb This movie is gross There's just a lot of grossness to this movie

But why was he eating it like it was his last meal When he clearly could have had That pecan pie and hot chocolate He got plenty of time to get that That was supposed to be his first meal out of prison But he is first meal out of prison With Charlize, right? Oh shit

Can we just play the, I just want to For you guys to hear the, this is the only other clip we have Here we go Get him up here No, no, fuck that Nick doesn't do anything Until Nick gets something for Nick Got it? I want some hot chocolate

You want to hear about some job of mine? I want to see some goddamn hot chocolate And some pecan fucking pie You mean Bernie Mac? You mean a Bernie Mac? I feel like that was You're right, that's where the movie goes At that point the movie is like, alright

Now we're on this whole different track It's like a fun romp now Because basically what we have not told you is Gary Sinise is Charlize's brother And he's a robber Or a wannabe robber And they are using Ben's knowledge But not really his knowledge

Because his former, the person He's not really getting his knowledge On how to rob a casino So he's being pulled into a casino He's just a car guy He just steals cars So now he's told them numerous times Guys, listen, I'm not this guy

They refuse to listen to that They keep on going, no, no, you're the guy You're the guy Charlize says to him, she's like I was going to tell you about this after New years The two of them, Charlize and Ben's characters They love the holidays

I didn't want to ruin your Christmas By telling you my sociopath brother Wants you to do a casino heist He throws his driver's license In the toilet It's real weird After he flushes the toilet He pats the toilet twice

Like good toilet You did what I wanted you to do You did what I wanted you to do So stupid He didn't have to do that What a long term con on his part I'm going to flush my license In the toilet so I have no proof

Of identification For the rest of my life He's like I got to get laid I got to flush I understood him at that point I felt like I got him Because he was both working

Towards getting laid And not getting fined out You wanted to tell the toilet good job Thanks bro I always pat the toilet Good job You did a good job Should we discuss

When they go to scout The casino and they get him a disguise Absolutely So they need to scout this casino And they figure the best way To dress him up By the way this is the most obvious crew of robbers Because even when they go get that pecan pie

It's like basically he is sitting Amongst the most Thuggiest of thugs It's like Danny Trejo, Clarence Williams Donald Loge Gary Sinise And they're all dressed like die hard villains And they don't look like

Oh yeah I saw a bunch of robbers in here They're all sitting around this table With a guy with a bloody nose And a super model wearing sunglasses They were at the robbers table We had to actually put three tables together To get them all at that robbers table How many of the six of them put them at the robbers table

I feel like this is that era Of movie making when it literally is like Okay so we'll get a couple Of good character actors to play the bad guys And then we just need one of the angry Steppenwolf guys So either Malcovich or Sinise Like Sinise is basically doing a Malcovich

Impression for the entirety of this movie He is not Threatening at all He is like He is slimmer And sliter and shorter than every single person In the movie He is not at all scary

Well Wabble when he throws those darts at him And he reveals and he's hitting darts Perfectly around Ben's head Like the kind of the way that they did it Like on the Tonight Show like the Tom Hawk thing And then he goes Hey I wasn't meaning to miss you I've been trying to hit you

Yeah I've been trying to hit you So I'm just bad at this It's not an intimidating Ben Affleck cracks wise So many times when he should be threatened Like he's about to be smashed in the face But he just is flipping Well the other thing that I can't figure out is

They are murderers But they've never committed a crime before And he is Just a truck driver Are they murderers? They do kill people Without remorse But not before this

So she says I don't know maybe she's lying Because here's the spoiler alert She's playing a bunch of reindeer games Yeah is that Charlize Theron is Not just double crossing Ben Affleck Because she is not Gary Sinise's sister

She is Gary Sinise's girlfriend Right which Ben Affleck finds out But guess what Another fucking twist Double double cross Nick the prisoner And he's alive Charlize Theron is his girlfriend

And the whole thing Has been a con on Ben Affleck And Gary Sinise They were counting on There's a whole scene of dialogue At the end of the movie where this actor Has to come out

He hasn't been seen in like an hour and a half And has to explain the entirety Of the movie to us It was awful But by the way How about the fact that That now it makes me question Did she actually have the 50% discount

Did she really work in that store We don't know I don't know This con goes deep If anyone in the audience knows Because 50% sounds like an enormous discount Even like people who work in the corporate office Don't get paid

She's been in some years By the way because what she could do Is buy stuff and then sell it On her own And make some serious cash Maybe she sold those other guys Their clothes Or their Santa suits

Do you think she got the Santa suits from that From the clothing store I don't know I doubt it So they go to case the joint And they decide to And by the way so the entire time in the movie Ben has said I hope I didn't spoil the end too early in the pod

And now we can kind of really uncover it From all angles Because basically Ben is telling Gary Sinise the entire time I'm not this guy Now by the plan of this movie Gary Sinise knows That he's not this guy right

No Gary Sinise is also being conned Yeah So Gary Sinise does not know That he's not Gary Sinise has no way of knowing Rudy was reading those letters Gary Sinise just knows

He's Nick Gary Sinise needs to believe He's Nick Or everything falls apart And even when At the point in the movie Where he realizes this isn't Nick He still says

Where's the pow wow safe Which is something that he invented Yes right I think you find out later That it was mentioned in the letters It was mentioned in the letters There's a part where Gary Sinise Is trying to run Ben Affleck over

With the car and the snow And then she reaches over To pull the wheel Why would they do any of that If it doesn't make sense When you go back over it If I may She knew

I believe that If Rudy had not killed Gary Sinise Then If Rudy had not killed Gary Sinise But Rudy didn't kill Gary Sinise Charlize kills Gary Sinise Yeah Yeah

Yeah she shoots Gary Sinise in the head Man Right I'm sorry But she Had no way of knowing though You guys Wait I really caught up

In a reindeer game right now I really lost in a reindeer game Unravel it Even the screenwriters didn't bother to figure this out So your question is Did Gary Sinise know That Rudy Was not Nick

No that's what you guys are saying I'm saying no to that I'm saying that Gary believed That Nick was Nick he believed That's what we're all saying So we're all saying that Sorry

That was amazing Sorry you guys I got really lost Still better than the movie Hearing you describe I'm still trying to figure out The parental logic of sleep away camp It has been broken down online You can check out our message board

The movie or? The movie Let's go to Case this casino They decide to dress Ben up in a Like a cowboy Like a comical cowboy outfit Like almost like a fog horn

Leg horn had formal wear This would be what he would be wearing Like when Ah fuck Sorry I just killed your whole pie When Norm MacDonald plays Burt Rowell Yes that's exactly what he looks like

He's perfect Big old cowboy hat By the way this casino is so low rent Oh god it's terrible What is Dennis Farina doing Poor Dennis Farina He literally keeps having He runs the casino and he keeps having the line

I shouldn't have left Vegas Because he's working in this Podunk He says to these He's having a meeting With these two Native American men It's a Tomahawk casino And he goes hey you guys need to do some

Sort of rain dance And get it to stop snowing So I can do some business And then the guys leave angered And he's like hey guys come back we got primary But the thing like it was like wait He just insulted these people Their religion everything

And you're like come on hey I shouldn't have left Vegas And I felt like every time he was saying That he was like I shouldn't be in this movie I feel like everyone did this movie I mean Charlize Theron publicly came out And said this is a very very bad movie This is the worst of my movies

I only did it because John Frankenheimer did it And I was kidding myself to do it So I feel like everyone Probably got off on that Like they're like oh John Frankenheimer I agree with that If you told me John Frankenheimer was directing a movie In that era I would have been like awesome

I mean to that The only person who was not able to cut it Was Vin Diesel Who was originally cast In an unspecified role But he made so many demands regarding his character That the director John Frankenheimer Fired him before production started

I bet you it was the Donald Logue character That's my gut Or maybe like a combination of those guys They were all Vin Diesel They couldn't get Vin Diesel so they broke the whole up They had to split it up I don't want to get lost in a twist again But so

But if Nick Original Nick Okay He must have been prepping Rudy in prison This whole time Reading those letters and all that stuff Why wouldn't he tell him more information About that casino

Like what? Like Just more info It seemed like Rudy Nick The only thing he really knew Was the powwow save Anything else about the casino Good point

That's a good point It's an unanswered point Well to me the whole movie All he needs is for them to rob the casino Yeah but He's prepping Rudy To know how to do that But he's not because

Basically at the end when Ben says to Gary He's like wait a second If I died at any point Could you still have done this He doesn't say it to Gary He says it to living Nick He's like this is so crazy There's so many moving parts to this

It could have fallen apart in any way Yeah it could have fallen apart How did you know I would go with her What if I had just gotten to the bus and left And he's like if you had She would have just convinced Gary Sinise To do it without you So he didn't even really need the whole

Protagonist of the movie to be in it By the way I would also argue This is one of the first movies where none of the characters are likeable Like Ben if like I mean he's not a likeable guy Because he goes from being like a very put upon Like he's like yeah I just you know I robbed cars

I got the bum deal And then he's like a dick And he's not like he's not He assumes a life of somebody else He's feeding toilets Raw dogging Charlize Theron While she thinks he's some other guy They're all evil people

She doesn't really think he's a bad person Oh right right right But he's a bad person Because he thinks But let's talk about Real OG Nick Really is very comfortable Farming his girlfriend out to get

Plowed by everybody Two different men Maybe that's just to see that The biggest reindeer game of them all Alright so they send him in Burt Reynolds style to this casino And now meanwhile you think Okay well this is a chance for Ben

To case the casino. No no no All the thug guys also come in Fully thugged out. They're not in any sort of costume Again they look like Robbers and thugs They're wearing their one outfit that they have And then what do they see? Well Oh he sees this guy across the

Casini kind of looks like him He's got a weird mustache and a goatee too Oh who is it? Ashton Kutcher What? And does Ashton Kutcher have any lines in this movie? He's got two Two lines in the bathroom Yeah which in the directors cut are edited out

Really? Yes The directors cut they edit out I only can imagine that Ashton Kutcher owed something to the Weinstein company and they're like You have to be in this movie And he was like okay I'll do it Is he a star in 2000?

Yeah that 70's show has been on He's a tv star That's not a part That you take How huge could he have been by then I'm going to look right now I'm guessing he wasn't that big I just assumed this was like one of his early roles

Me too I thought it was sort of like Herman and the blues brothers Alright because I thought it was much more That was a good poll I thought it was much more like Look at this, look at who this character is No I don't think he was Doing movies then

I'm going to tell you right now In 2000 he had already done Dude Where's My Car And he was On Just Shoot Me So he had done He was an actor He was the star of Dude Where's My Car

So this makes no sense Did that come out in 2000 or shot in 2000? It came out in 2000 So he was The lead in a movie So at that point he also said I mean he was If this came out in Feb that probably came out in the summer

Alright yeah And maybe this Maybe this had been shot years earlier Maybe this sat around Alright so you guys are predicting That this is something that he That he didn't We can just ask Kutch

We can dial up the Kutch phone Because by the way That 70's show started In 1998 so he had been on that 70's Show for a couple years Then he should not be in a role That has less than 5 lives But it's a Frankenheimer

That's probably how they got him So basically Ben just goes Take this coat, here's 100 bucks And he puts it on and then he just runs Around and he goes He gave me 100 dollars That's basically all of the Kutch's lines And teenage girls went crazy

In my mind I feel like the wine scenes were like This kid's hot, girls love him Put him in this Frankenheimer movie This movie will make a lot of money Here's my bigger question The scene after this when Charlize and Ben run away Into like a bank of snow And they try to escape

Crazy Gary Sinise Charlize there on falls into Frozen lake Frozen lake One of the best shots in the movie When she falls into that Amazing And then Ben Affleck jumps in after her

And then they swim away from the hole That they fell into That happens to people when they fall through the ice Is that they cannot find the hole they fell through That is true The current might drag them or they can't see Is there a big... Alright, no I'm glad to hear this

Because it looked so bright And it looked from where we were standing With them The shot we were on with them That you could see that other hole so clearly That's a huge thing You can't see the hole you fell into You can't see the hole you fell into

But also when you were growing up Clowns would chase you onto that ice Guys, the clowns Let's not forget the clowns I got to ask someone Actually you've been validated on one of the many episodes A lot of people came to you to defend Oh really? Oh good

Oh thank god, alright, thank you people But I remember There was the whole threat That you would fall through the ice Because of how when you get so disoriented That it's very easy to get Back up and get... You're stuck there and you don't know where the hole is

That you came out of So kids would die underwater Not because they couldn't find that little hole They came through So this part of the movie is 100% factual Ready to go Luckily they did not lose their machine gun And they were able to shoot through that ice

Is that factual? That's what I was wondering Would a shotgun fire underwater Yeah, it was a full on machine gun It wasn't even like a pump action It was like They were able to get through there One of the most heartbreaking moments

Is right after the one This little man This little local yokel This ice fishing Kind of like a grumpy old man I thought he was one of the best actors in the movie He says so sincerely Is everything okay you guys

And then realizes that he's dealing with Bad guys Because they're all carrying guns Sure, he starts to run away And do you think he died in that house? Oh no he definitely died because it's on the newscast It's on the newscast Because later they go into a room

And the newscast in the background is saying The strange death of a local man On the river this is still unsolved But police suspect foul play Do they suspect foul play Is that because his little ice house Was shot up by a machine gun And by the way

Suspect foul play This guy must have been some serious shit But these guys who are not robbers Because they've never robbed anything before They're just truck drivers of the dream Who live out of their truck They live out of a truck that is Like the night rider truck

Like it's like full decked out Like motor city truck Yeah he But oh my gosh This movie sucked Ha ha I got so angry So the scene where Garrison East is throwing darts

And Affleck Are they in the wreck room of that hotel? Aren't they in the truck? No they're not in the truck They're in the truck Because there's a pinball machine They're in the truck No it's like a shitty motel

With like cinder block walls And all the rooms have cinder block walls By the way you guys will be happy to know that I'm not sure that took place in the truck By the way wherever it took place There was a big fog machine Everywhere in that hotel was foggy It was like everything was defrosting

By the way you'll be happy to know that Ron Perkins The actor who was killed in the ice house He's alive and kicking He was on the mentalist And he was on Veep And he had a very big part on House MD So you can check out He is Dr. Ron Simpson

Right There are a few of John Frankenheimer's movies But yeah everything in that hotel Looked like everything was Steamy at all times But my favorite line in the hotel Was Ben escaped from the hotel In a feudal escape

Plan because he doesn't really get anywhere When he escapes and he comes back and he's trying To break back into his hotel room And he's like I can hot wire cars I can hot wire hotel That's what he says I can hot wire cars And all he's doing he has somehow found a knife How did he get a hold of that knife

All he's doing to hot wire the door handle Is touching the knife To the door like to the Electronic component of the door handle Just like tap tap tap Tap tap tap Green light I'm in There was no wires

There was nothing It was just touching a metal knife That's how it worked When he does escape that hotel For that feudal escape plan To understand why he escaped Then he tries to get back in You were loose

Just keep on running And by the way Those four robbers are everywhere in that hotel Every which way that he goes There's another one of the bad guys Like hey I'm down by the vending machine Hey I'm out reading my magazine Hey I'm over here in the pool

Like they are all over the place One guy finds leftovers outside somewhere These are disgusting robbers That's a disgusting trait to look through People's used food and eat it That just shows you though How desperate these guys are But Ben got the one up on them

Because he was able to order a lot of Pay-per-view And these robbers did not want to pay for their Pay-per-view Another egregious tone shift Where you're scared for this guy's life And then all of a sudden he's just Dicking around in like the toothless

Villains $1,200 Is a $1,200 bill It was a huge bill It was a huge like I'll print it out an old Computer printer Like you charge us all this money on pay-per-view Like one punch that's for the pay-per-view

Another punch that's for the minibar It was so Like Abbott and Costello Oh my god and then So now we get to the big heist Things are happening it's exciting And

Man alive To get you to this final scene Everything goes haywire They all dress this by the way the big reveal That they're going to rob the casino dressed as Santas It's Christmas Eve Cause Christmas Eve and then they like reveal

The suits like we got a plan man And they open up a closet full of like Neatly hung Santa suits In the truck Right and if you double back the whole reason The reason he dressed What We'll find out the reason they

That they dressed him as a cowboy Earlier is because they said If you go in there regular now they'll recognize You when the heist goes down Yes and then they were going to recognize Them from when he used to work there As Nick they were like if you walk in Now they're going to recognize you as Nick

So he goes that's why I need to disguise And then they were like it's either cowboy or ballerina By the way why would it be such a big deal If Nick came in Just the old place he worked there He wasn't fired for stealing He could have just say I'm here to visit I'm the guy with the problem stealing cars

And it doesn't matter anyway he goes in as the cowboy Dennis Farina who runs the Museum the casino says Hey how'd you hear about us How'd you hear about the casino And he's just like whatever whatever And then the bad guys are like you were talking to the guy Did you tip him off like a huge part

Of the movie was contingent on them Thinking that he had said something To Dennis Farina Which wasn't true at all The whole movie is based on lies That no one has enough information And are low stakes Very low stakes lies

Very low stakes considering they didn't need Ben Affleck at all And by the way If the plan is walking and shoot the place up Guess who you don't need for that Ben Affleck By the way can I just bring out the larger flaw Of this plan

The casino is not making any money It is losing money It is a not profitable casino We're gonna rob it on Christmas Eve A dead night So Usually it's like Usually high school movies are like on this particular night

There happens to be three times as much money in the vault Because of Betty Like Oceans 11 or whatever This literally would be The night when there is the least amount of money In the least successful casino Shittiest casino on the shittiest night of the year We are standing to make

Hundreds of dollars It was But yet when they get in the back room Tons of money I guess casinos just keep it there Just in case they have a rush Just wrapped up in perfectly stacked bills I also love that when they arrive at the casino

They cut to Dennis Farina Who's just watching the security cams Just watching people come in That Santa's kicking your ass Dennis Farina does not freak out When they're full on fight Where they flip tables over Happens in the main floor of his casino

He's like I freaked out on my last movie I don't need to do it again Hey guys just put in midnight run You'll see what I can do Anyway But then They somehow Ben needs a weapon They gave him a weapon that has liquor in it

It's a squirt gun And then they pass around a bottle of rum later Which he puts in the squirt gun Yeah so he's like that's a comic relief moment Throughout the whole time he can give himself a little squirt of rum But it'll come handy Comes in really handy because when Ben is Tied up against the wall

When he is stuck in this one moment He's going to get killed The guy's like I'm going to kill you But first let me light a smoke Now I didn't see this twist coming I didn't think this squirt gun I did not think this squirt gun In the moment I did but I didn't see it leading up

I didn't feel you let me take out my cigarette And my zippo lighter And he goes to light a cigarette But Ben very quick on the draw Shoot some quick rum at him And lights this guy on fire In the most Hollywood I'm on fire

Like special effects are amazing Like it's like This guy goes up in flames Like a fire start Three squirts from his squirt gun Engulfs the man Like in Insane flames

By the way when you say squirt We should be clear it's like such a tiny small Stream there's no Yeah We should work that out like see what would really happen If someone was smoking We should myth buster this You think we should myth buster this

Get my beret I've got the beard you get the beret let's go I bet you someone on live One of our fans wants to make a youtube video I don't think you'll light yourself on I don't think you'll light yourself on fire All you'll do is put out the cigarette You'll just put out the cigarette

Also I'll say that in this heist There are more point blank misses Of any movie ever Because there's only like six characters So they can't kill each other that much And they have to miss each other non stop For the entire ending to make it a little bit I don't even

This even goes to show you that it's not even a fun movie Because you don't even remember how any of these guys die I don't remember how trejo dies I don't remember how Well the problem is That everybody dies in santa suits So you can't tell who's being killed So at the end of the movie

Everybody's indistinguishable from each other Except for Ben Affleck And so you have a lot of trouble figuring out who's who Like the guys When they open up the vault room One of the santa's gets shot with a shotgun And flies backwards and dies I'm not sure who that was

You don't know And that's what it's like You're not tied to any of these deaths Because I don't fucking get it Like who was that, why did that just happen Any movies where the achievement is That you can't tell the difference between Danny Trejo and Donald Luke

That's pretty good accomplishment Well but that's a big part of Well I thought it was going to be a huge part of the ending When Ben Affleck said When they say to Ben Affleck That five Santas came into the casino So five Santas need to be Dead

But there weren't five Santas dead there No Well what you think, what I thought was going to happen Was that Ben Affleck Was that Ben Affleck was going to Once Nick Once OG Nick got killed Ben Affleck should have put his

Santa suit on OG Nick And killed him because then Ben Affleck Can walk away unscathed, right? By the way they keep on saying that They blow up, but at the end of the movie They blow up everybody anyway, they're all on fire They don't need to put the Santa suits on anyone They're all burnt to a crisp

I don't disagree And then am I to believe At the end of this movie He gives all of the money away in people's mailboxes And then goes to his own Family's dinner When they actually showed him The movie could have been over

So way before that But they took the time to show you Going to his holiday To watch the ball game with his dad But he's still bloodied And in the Santa suit And he's at home at the head of his kitchen Table with his convict

The big smile on his face Anyway his last line is I know what the holidays mean now Like he knows Learned a lesson Well if you pointed out, some mailboxes got two Yeah Like he would take all their money

And he would put like one stack of bills And sometimes there's two So people should know, he walks away with the stolen money And now in my mind I'm like, hey Return that money to the casino Because those people, that tribe was struggling Return that money

A lot of casino workers were killed But instead He Robin hoods it And he puts it in just people's mailboxes He walks down the street They finally make him likeable in the last scene But that wasn't likable What he should have done, he should have started a fund

For all of the families of the casino workers Who were killed in that shootup He should have started a check And taken care of them I think he should have just left the money There And called the police to the scene of the Then it's evidence Jason, they can't do anything with it

Doesn't it get, won't evidence get returned to the casino? I don't know I can't, I don't know about that We should get into this They made those design changes That he was trying to convince them to place On the casino He should take over the casino

Did anyone catch The real twist ending of the movie? So he gets home To his parents house And the entire thing was orchestrated by his dad To get him home for Christmas So his dad set up his prison roommate To fake his

It was a long term family con To get him home for Christmas That's all it was It's a movie about family Well played Rudolph's dad Rudolph's dad Whose name is Santa No, the whole idea

The reason why it was called Nick Was because that was the whole Theme of the movie, do you believe Do you believe it's Nick? Do you believe in St. Nick? Yeah Hey, can we talk about He dispatches Charlize Theron, she's on the hood of the car

She goes over the cliff And now it's time to get rid of The real villain, her brother And it's just the same exact thing That Nick just sends him over the cliff Same two deaths right in a row Ah, fuck it, we don't care, let's do it again Let's do it exactly

The difference is The first thing, she went over the cliff on the hood of a car And then the next thing, it's an 18 Wheeler that goes over the cliff So it is basically completely different So, shame on you I did love that I need a different license to push those off

I did like his one line You have to be able to double clutch Wait, what did he go, what did he do I'm going to mess up the line, but I did like it He was like, one first rule Never trusted Never put a car thief behind the wheel Yeah, that was it, and I was able to

Just reverse into the brother Or to reverse into O.G. Nick And drive her off the cliff It was an anticlimactic ending Just seeing cliffs fall off the thing exploding It's like, eh, right The

Is there any, well, obviously We had an opinion about this movie, but it's time To hear some second opinions These are reviews called from Amazon.com Five star reviews This is Five star? Five star reviews, so here

They agree or disagree with this Critics or just pedestrians? These are pedestrians, these are what America is thinking Josh Miller says Reindeer Games works on so many levels As an action film It's damn near flawless In fact

I think it is flawless Except for the lame brain twist That was going to throw in at the end But that didn't ruin it, so I stick to my five stars I'm going to have to start trusting Elmore Leonard a lot more Because his mini-review on the cover Summs up everything well

Reindeer Games rocks Whoa, really? He's more accurate than Stephen King Has been about certain movies So that's a guy who's trusting Authors Author mini-reviews on a DVD box cover That's what makes you start liking Elmore Leonard

This one is a good one too Amando Mesa writes Will surely change any misconceptions About their underrated acting abilities Because I can't figure out How Theron and Affleck Turn on the water works Is it method acting or real emotions?

It's incredibly believable Did they even cry? I don't remember them crying Gary Sinise can play either Good or bad flawlessly If he's a good character He's intense If he's a bad one

He's super intense He turns it up The only drawback The only drawback Is that this is the kind of movie Where the twists in the story will be fresh In your mind for the next three days And then afterwards you're going to want to

Analyze the whole thing and remember it afterwards So that is the drawback Thinking is the drawback On this movie And this one I just pulled these To... This one I wouldn't normally read But it's a five star review

And I think it's funny Kilmari writes Sinise is terrific as the deranged wannabe thief wants to get past His hideous reptilian looks How many How many camera lenses Did they go through?

Wait What? Is the presumption there That his looks are so bad That he would break a camera lens? Many But he is terrific He is terrific

His reptilian looks He does look a little like a character Like from V And then somebody else just compares Affleck Affleck is emerging as a star Who possesses a commanding screen presence Only afforded by older, more distinguished actors

Such as John Connery and Ed Harris Throne proves to be the theatrical Equal of Marlena Daetric So those are Those are some five star reviews Is there anything that we missed? Anything that anyone had written down

That we didn't talk about? Nobody else may buy into this one But I thought that Nick, the OG Nick Yes Let me have Todd Berry Do you like if Todd Berry Kind of a little bit of A little bit of Todd Berry in him

I'll take that I had actually preferred to see that character Played by Todd Berry Because he's a mastermind Yeah, I would have liked to see Because I think Todd's energy, his look is similar But Todd's energy would have nailed that part He would have brought that wrestler magic to

That guy, I looked at that because I was like Who is that guy? He's been in like every TV show He's been in everything But he has never had like a big thing Well, this could have been it Anybody else, anybody else anything Before we wrap it up

Just the little drummer boy Is constantly getting sung by The Christmas music made me sick Yeah, they ruined the Christmas music And then there's like Sort of upbeat Christmas chamber music at the end Which didn't match

Any part of the movie at all It was kind of like It was like a die-hard thing I think it was like mashing together They also fired their composer In the middle of this movie So like half of the music is done by I'll find out

Two different composers like James Goldsmith They had that February 25th deadline They had to get this Christmas movie out By February 25th I thought the pool scene With Charlize and Gary Sinise Was very gross Where they are revealed to be lovers

She takes her top off Great tits on Charlize there By the way, she's made it quite a few times That make out they share Is disgusto I thought that was gross Every make out in this Every thing is gross in this movie

I mean make out wise I was very grossed out by it It was so intrigued by that hotel too Because it looked like a Motel 6 That pool area It's very nice By the way, also when Ben finds out That Charlize and Gary Sinise

Are fake dating The way he finds out about it Is he hears like Charlize yelling Hey, get your hands off me Get your fucking hands off me And then he goes in and finds out Oh, they're going out, but she's drinking out of a wine glass And it looked like they were having a romantic interlude

It didn't look like they were in the middle of a fight It seemed like they were just like They were drinking wine, they were clearly over it Right, relaxing There was some argument I don't even remember who it took place But there was a point where he goes, you said he was stabbed He took a shiv

I said he died That's how it all becomes real Who is it? It's Sinise She says that To Affleck And then he's like Affleck's like, wait, how do you know he took a shiv? I never told you that

They keep repeating it back and forth Because that's letting Gary Sinise know That he's being double-crossed He gets super confused That's when she shoots him in the head And she goes, oh, man And then she becomes the true cold-hearted bitch That we all knew she was

Yeah, women, don't trust women Even though she hates men She's from South Africa Man, oh man In the beginning when he's talking to his cellmate In the cell He's reading the letters from Charlize there And Ben Affleck is exercising

He's doing push-ups And then he turns over And he starts doing sit-ups But he's just in full conversation As he's doing these weird Where does he even get the breath to have that conversation? By the way, I keep on thinking He must have regretted that choice

Immediately as he was like Take 17, fuck Because he has to really do it By the way, that's also a great part of the movie Where there should be some Like witty repartee between these two Like prison inmates, nope None, very, very stale

Even though Ben Affleck has told us In voiceover, and that's my best friend, Nick Yeah It's ludicrous And there's a moment, even in the beginning Where he's like, hey, maybe I should Fuck this girl that you want to go fuck That was weird

Also a really big coincidence That they're being let out on the same day Oh, because originally I remember thinking like, oh They must be in for the same crime, they must have been partners And they weren't, they were just cellmates That guy killed, oh, original G was stabbed somebody

Ben Affleck just stole some cars, no big deal But that's the way life treats them Maybe the ward was like, we'll put you two guys together Because you get out on the same day, so there won't be any conflicts Well, you know, it's all about rooms Nobody would be jealous, there won't be any hidden resentments It's so tough to get new roommates in there too Hey, did you

Ron Jeremy's in the credits as prisoner number one I didn't see him in there Whoa, I did not see him in there either I didn't see him Oh, no, his name is Ron Hyatt Prisoner number one is what it says Oh, but it is him, yeah Ron Hyatt is Ron Jeremy, that's his a.k.a

Yeah, yeah, what? Did not know that Hey, I don't know if you guys You know the movie Bandits came out around the same time With Bruce Willis Yeah, that's the one where he's like having cancer Him and

Oh man, the guy from Billy Bob So I'm not that Familiar with this movie, but this kept reminding me of it Because it's like just that same era And kind of these sprawling Crime Trips Directed by Barry Levinson too

Like an older director trying to get in on this new like Yeah, but I think that one's terrible too I'm not sure if it's as bad as this We'll have you back for that then Two for Bandits, 2001's Bandits Opening weekend $13 million, $80 million budget Wow

This movie was $40 million And it made $30 million Worldwide And all said and done Did Frank and Hymer just pass away Or they just said no more for you That was it, he went to movie jail permanently

That was his last film Well, would I recommend that you watch this I wouldn't think it's a necessity To see it I think you could pass on it I think if you want to watch that Icefall scene, it's pretty good And maybe the end, the end is pretty good too Yeah, but you can watch

This is a watch while fast forwarding Yes, alright, so that wraps up Reindeer Games Merry Christmas to all those who celebrate it And happy holidays to all those who don't See you in the new year Merry Christmas to all those who celebrate it