How To Fail With Elizabeth Day - Erin Doherty - ‘Lean Into Your Truth’

Episode Date: March 12, 2025

To hear more of Erin offering advice on listener failures, join our community of subscribers here: https://howtofail.supportingcast.fm/#content Erin Doherty’s big break came playing Princess Anne in The Crown. She’s now back on our screens as Mary Carr, the leader of a real-life Victorian female crime gang, in A Thousand Blows (written by Peaky Blinders creator Steven Knight). Erin talks about acting rejections, struggling with social anxiety, her approach to friendships, how she was *almost* a professional footballer and why dating a woman for the first time felt like ‘coming home.’ Have something to share of your own? I'd love to hear from you! Click here to get in touch: howtofailpod.com Production & Post Production Coordinator: Eric Ryan Studio and Mix Engineer: Matias Torres Sole & Gulliver Lawrence-Tickell Senior Producer: Selina Ream Executive Producer: Carly Maile Head of Marketing: Kieran Lancini How to Fail is an Elizabeth Day and Sony Music Entertainment Production. Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts To bring your brand to life in this podcast, email [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace. Now, if you're an entrepreneur like me or living the creative freelance life, then Squarespace is the all-in-one platform to help you stand out and succeed online. Whether you're just getting started or nurturing a growing brand, Squarespace makes it easy to create a stunning website and engage with your audience. My website was designed on Squarespace and I found it so user-friendly and easy. And trust me, I am not techy at all. Squarespace supports a design-orientated ethos, so the options are chic and there's plenty of templates to choose from. I felt

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modern romance. I'm podcaster and author Elizabeth Day. And I'm Mel Schilling, relationship coach. Every week, we aim to give you the skills you need to show up as yourself on the apps and in real life. Join us for frank expert advice, brilliant guests and practical exercises that will leave you feeling empowered to make the changes you need to meet the person that is worthy of you. Listen now wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to How to Fail, the podcast that treats all failure as data acquisition. Before we get onto the episode today, I just wanted to give you a quick reminder about my subscriber podcast Failing with Friends, where my guest and I answer your questions and offer some advice on your failures too. Failing With Friends, where my guest and I answer your questions and offer some advice

on your failures too. This week I'm joined by the actor Erin Doherty, and here's a taster of what you can expect. And I just hope that I get to offer that to other women or men, like whoever you are, like just lean into your truth. Do join in by following the link in the podcast notes where you can email me or look out for my monthly call-outs on Instagram for quickfire questions. Erin Doherty grew up in Crawley, West Sussex in the shadow of Gatwick Airport, where her father worked in air transportation and her mother was a doctor's receptionist. In fact, Doddy's early talent for

football, she was scouted by Chelsea Women, meant she might never have been an actor at all. It was her dad who, sick of having to drive his daughter both to drama class and to football practice every Sunday, asked her to make a choice. Since then, her course was set. She ended up at the Bristol Old Vic Theatre School, and after graduating, her early parts on stage moved one theatre critic to describe her as having star wattage as bright as anything. Her big on-screen break came in 2019 when she was cast as Princess Anne in Netflix's The Crown. Now, after acclaimed performances in Chloe, a BBC Amazon thriller about a parasocial relationship, and the movie Firebrand alongside Alicia Vikander and Jude Law, she returns to our screens in a thousand blows. A Disney plus drama about the Victorian

underground boxing scene in which Dorothy plays the real life Mary Carr, leader of an all-female criminal gang. She's also currently on stage at London's Garrick Theatre in Unicorn, a play written by Mike Bartlett who, in a neat twist of fate, also wrote the first play she ever saw at the age of 19. I've always been quite socially anxious and insular, Dorothy says, but I guess acting became a way I could express myself. I don't know what I would do without it. Erin, Dorothy, welcome to How to Fail. Thank you for having me. I'm really, really happy to be here.

I'm happy you're here and you just told me that you are actually performing a matinee today of Unicorn. Yep, that's happening. That's happening in a couple of hours, but we'll just bash this one out first. I'm really buzzed to be here though. I wouldn't have it any other way. Oh, that's so kind of you to say so.

And I'm thrilled as well because I've been fangirling before we started recording over Chloe, which was the first thing I ever saw you in. And it's an amazing, amazing piece of television. But I wanted to end on that quote, that idea that you might be socially anxious, but acting has given you the confidence. Because I think sometimes there's a misapprehension that actors do it for attention. Yeah. And it has always kind of bugged me. And I suppose there are people out there who

are just more socially adept than me, but yeah, for me, it's 100% a form of escapism. And there's something really freeing about portraying someone else and expressing and experiencing those emotions through like the weird safety of a script. And if that wasn't there, I think I would just, I don't know, I don't know how I'd get it out. So yeah, it's always kind of been a lifeboat for me in that sense. So do you think every role that you've played has taught you something about who you are? I think so. I'm a definite believer in parts finding the actor and someone being in a headspace and things cross their paths when they're ready to explore it.

It definitely correlates with where I'm at in my life, the characters that I choose to play at that moment in time and what I'm ready to explore. Once you've embodied someone for a year sometimes, which I did with Mary Carr on A Thousand Blows, they stay with you and you get to really learn things from them and try things on for size and go, oh no, actually I feel really good when I just say things how they are. Like it's a really gorgeous opportunity to just try things and yeah, I love my job. Let's talk about Mary Carr in A Thousand Blows. So A Thousand Blows written by Peaky Blinders creator. What I love about Mary Carr, I mean, what a role, but the 40 elephants, the criminal

gang that she's part of, was a real criminal gang. Yeah. I had no idea that they even existed. So when the script came through in my emails, I was like, hold on a minute, like this is based on real people. And so I went and did loads and loads of research. I was just flabbergasted that no one had told this story before. But actually when I spoke to Hannah and Stephen about it, Graham, they were like, yeah, that

was like, Stephen Knight was actually sitting on that story about the 40 elephants for a while before they brought Hezekiah and Mosco to him. And he was like, I know exactly how I'm going to interweave these stories because he knew years back, I think that he wanted to tell that story, but he just didn't have the right machine, I suppose, to drive it home. But yeah, they're fascinating people. It's fascinating. And it's such a rich tapestry of London in that era. So Hezekiah, who you mentioned, turns up from Jamaica, he wants to be a lion tamer, he ends up as an underground boxer. But Mary Carr,

I mean, were you just so thrilled when you got that role? I mean, you so deserve it, but explain that character for us. I mean, yeah, I was chomping at the bit to be a part of this series, but knowing that I could be this woman who, on the page, she's so grounded and just earthy and I'd give my right arm to play someone like that. So when I got it, I was, yeah, over the moon. There's not that much out there about her as a human being, which was kind of freeing in a way, which I loved. So I kind of got the backbone of things she did, like finding out they robbed Harrods, she kidnapped a kid. So that created a backbone. And then I was like, oh, okay, well, who psychologically would this woman be in order to make these choices? Yeah. And it was an absolute gift

of a role. Was it nice to act with your own accent? Yeah. Oh my God. And it took such a long time after the crown for people to be like, Oh, so you're not like of a certain ilk. Which was, yeah, I think all actors get it. Like when you just get pigeonholed when you first kind of break out and people go, you're that person.

So it takes a while to really break that mold. And what did Princess Anne teach you? You said that you take something from every role. Yeah. Princess Anne, what she gave me was this kind of resilience at just needing to be honest. Like she had just this thing about her where she wouldn't compromise. And I found that really empowering. Not in a, I don't know, it wasn't in a spiteful way, but she was just adamant that when she was sat in front of someone, she would give them the unvarnished truth. And that's really empowering, particularly as a woman, but also from my lens of, I've definitely grown up being a bit of a people pleaser. So I've always kind of been tuned into how some things may be received, whereas she just didn't buy into that. And I've definitely taken a little slice of that with me, which is so freeing. And the hairspray,

do you know? Are you better at using hairspray now? If I'm honest, honestly, like the smell of it for me brings back such strong memories of sitting in a chair for hours on end. I don't do it anymore. I'm a big fan of dry shampoo. That's my closest link. Honestly, I'm just lazy when it comes to it. So no, that's my kind of like in there.

But yeah, it's a lot of hairspray. I've got two more slightly weird questions before we get on to your failures. One is, how did you feel when the Queen died? Odd. I was doing a play at the time, I was doing The Crucible at the National Theatre and so everyone was talking about the big queue that people were queuing up for her funeral. And I remember we were actually in rehearsals when they were like, we're going to have to cancel or we had to push our press night because of this huge thing. And I just remember it in a way because it had been so many years since being a part of that whole world. I just kind of let it

go. So until that point, I didn't realise how, or maybe I'd forgotten how integral they are to our culture and how just how much people love this woman. Quite rightly, I look back at the things she has done for our country and who she is as a human being. I find her so brilliantly inspiring. But it took all those years later to really sit back and go, oh wow, I got to be a part of this show that is honouring this incredible woman essentially. But yeah, I kind of grew up not really being aware of the royals. No one in my family is a royalist. So it was just, you'd get the days off when someone was getting married and that was a result. That's what they really meant to me. So it was a really odd experience to kind of then years later be quite moved by this person that I've never known, but you through process of osmosis, you feel like you do have a relationship

with this woman. So it was quite a bizarre thing to grieve someone you've never met. Carlyse It must be so intense because of the way that you've spoken about how you prepare for roles, it's like psychologically getting in tune with the part that you're playing. So psychologically, you had got in tune with the Queen's daughter. So that must be, yeah. It was really odd. I really felt like I had this kind of this link, which was odd as well, because obviously at the age that I was portraying Princess Anne, there was a lot of friction there between them. So it was also, I suppose, it was quite therapeutic to work through that. And then sadly when

she did pass, it kind of left me in a sense. And I know that past interviews I've read, you said that you'd never met Princess Anne. I just wondered if that's changed. Never. And honestly, if she's out there and willing, I would love it. I've not lost my admiration for who she is and what she represents and the way she's tread her path. I just think, yeah, more power to you. Well, I know she's a regular listener to Hasfield. I'm kidding. I don't know. I would love it. Wouldn't that be great? That would be so, yes. And it was because to you. Well, I know she's a regular listener to Hasfield. I'm kidding. I don't know. I would love it.

Wouldn't that be great? Would be so, yes. And it was because of you. I said I had two weird questions. The second one is that we have something in common. Go on. We both used to play the trumpet. Yes, no way.

I've never met anyone. Everyone thinks I'm a weirdo for playing the trumpet. I'm a ditto. It's so rare. It's so cool and it's so rare for women. Yeah. Why didn't we follow that through? Can you imagine? I know. There's one amazing female trumpeter, Alison Balsam, isn't there? I don't know.

Yeah. But otherwise it's not. Yes. So when did you take it up and when did you stop? It was basically, it was just like in school. I don't know if this was basically, they were just like, right, we're doing like music lessons and you can pick an instrument. And my sister chose the clarinet and I was like, nah, I just wanted, I don't know, I was just gunning for that trumpet. I knew that I wanted to play the trumpet. I don't know why. I was just like, there's no other option here. I'm going for that trumpet. And it was only me who chose it. So I had like one-on-one lessons with this dude after school. But yeah, there just came a point. In all honesty, I just couldn't be asked to bring in the case every day. Yeah. Because I'd also, yeah. And I'd rock up to school. Like you'd play football

before the school bell went off, before you went into class. And so it just messed with my flow because I'd have to put it down, like when everyone put their bags to make the two goals. I was like, what do I do? I can't like, I can't put my trumpet there. Like, what if someone knocks over my trumpet? So I just, I gave it up so I could play football at school in the mornings before I went in. I'm so glad we have that in common. Oh my God. That is like, that's the connection. I never knew I needed. Actually, our initials are the same ED. Come on. Oh my gosh. What is this? I'm going to leave here today. Like I've just had a spiritual experience.

I love it. Anyway, let's get onto your failures. So your first failure is musical theatre and drama school auditions. So at the stage we're talking about, you've made the choice that you want to act rather than be a footballer. Drama school auditions, tell me about this process. It was really awful. So basically, on the weekends when I was doing football, I was also going to like a musical

theatre thing afterwards. So I grew up doing musical theatre. So for a long time, I was like, that's what I'm going to do. So the first, my first year out of sixth form, I auditioned to all these musical theatre colleges and I just very quickly realized that it wasn't the life for me. These people, I have such admiration for the work that goes into what they do, but I was looking at them like you'd have to go up and do a dance call and do a singing thing. I was just so unavoidably awkward and just disarmed by my own nerves. I was just like, there's no point in doing this because I'm not having

any fun here. I didn't get in anywhere on that first year, which was no surprise to me, but it was equally, it was still really heartbreaking because someone's telling you no. But yes, then I went and did, I stayed on at my secondary school and did a year of working there as a PE technician and a drama technician and earned some money. But by that time I'd made the decision that I was just going to go for drama schools. And I didn't get in anywhere that year, but maybe like a couple of months after finding out that I didn't get in anywhere that year, but maybe like a couple of months after finding out that I didn't get in, Guildford School of Acting, I think just by chance or whatever,

they sent a letter to my mum's address being like, we're doing this foundation course. And I went in and auditioned for that and got that. And that was kind of the start of the snowball of the whole thing for me. Wow. What do you think kept you going during that time of rejection? I think having no other option. I've always just been fascinated by people and I think from that first experience of going on the weekends and doing this musical theatre class and understanding that it's a way of expressing yourself. I think it just became part of who I am. And so there's never been another option

like without being, it's nothing to do with, I will be successful at this thing. It's just, I don't know how I get to, I'm going to live my life without this in my, like as a part of who I am. So I think it was just, no, I have to, so I'll just keep going. And do those experiences now, have they helped when you've been rejected in other situations? Hugely. Like in a way I've learned to really love rejection and really use it as a positive thing of when someone says no, you have to lean in times 10. I just think it's really given me that strength of spirit of going, well, if I decide to do something, it doesn't necessarily matter if straight away no one

else wants to jump on board, but if I'm going to commit, then I will make it happen. And eventually people will go, oh yeah, like, I'll buy into that or yeah, come over here and we'll let you do that over here. Like I think if you're not going to be your own cheerleader, no one else is going to be. So sometimes it just takes a couple of years for everyone to jump on board essentially. That also makes me think you have a very strong work ethic and yeah, you're nodding. Does that come from your parents, do you think? I think so.

I think I've always kind of grown up, I've had such a, and still do have such a beautiful relationship with my dad. And he, when I first was like, I'm gonna try out for drama schools, he was like, you probably should go to uni, like just to have this like back. So he's very much been this person of like, I'm going to try out for drama school. He was like, you probably should go to uni, just to have this back. So he's very much been this person of like, we would always talk about my next step, my next step. I've not questioned that you just work and you work and you work until

you get to where you want to be. And he's kind of given me that beautiful gift of believing in what you're doing and just, yeah, not giving up. So your parents got divorced when you were young. Yeah, yeah, really young. I was four. Again, it's a gift of really understanding people and relationships and not applying any immense pressure for everything to work out in my own life. Because when you watch something break down and you've experienced it, you kind of go, oh, all right, like people can go, but it doesn't mean they don't love you. Like it's still, so it's offered me that, which has been. Gosh, that's beautiful.

Yeah. It's taken me a while to get there. That's so wise. Yeah. Well, I just think, again, I think I'm an inherently positive person. Like I'm constantly seeking out and I genuinely do believe it. I feel like there's a lesson in everything, whether you're ready to hear it and believe it, it will get you eventually and you'll be like, Oh, that's what I was supposed to take from that. I just think that's the wonderful thing about life is that it's cyclical and you'll go on these circles until you receive what you're supposed to receive and and you'll go on these circles until you receive what you're supposed

to receive and then you'll move on. Yeah, I could not agree more. There is a lesson in everything and you're so right that sometimes the lesson isn't immediately apparent. And sometimes the lesson is just, well, I survived that so I was stronger than I think. Yeah, which is amazing. Like what a gift to be like, oh my gosh. And then because then you're gifted with compassion and empathy for seeing someone else and being like, Whoa, you're, you can recognize it. I feel like it's such a wonderful thing in a way to have experienced immense

hurt and pain because you can, it gives you, um, just an awareness and, and a sensitivity to others. And what a wonderful thing to be able to sit in front of someone and go, are you okay? And genuinely ask that question and want to know how they're doing. I've got friends who work in sales, so I know secondhand at least how hard they work, not least on this podcast, and how they often complain of feeling like they're endlessly churning through leads to find people ready to buy their product, whatever that product is. Well, happily for those of you working in sales, LinkedIn Sales Navigator is more than just a tool. It's your strategic sales partner, and it's here to help. LinkedIn Sales Navigator

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I think for that reason, there's a bit of a taboo around it about like, well, if you can't keep friends, are you a good person? And that's been like my mass, my thing again, like something I've like grappled with is I've always just, I don't know whether, whether it's because I've, I always grew up basically at school, I never really committed to the idea of it. So I always was like, I'm going to go to drama school. I never liked any of the subjects that I was studying, so I never really committed. So I didn't gain those integral friendships that most people savor until they're, I mean, 80 years old. A lot of these friendships are formed at that moment in time. And so I just never got that.

And then when you become an actor, you do a job and it's the most wonderful, intense thing for like a year or a couple of months, but then you move on. And so these people enter your life, but then they go again and always just kind of gone, oh, okay, people can come and people can go, but you don't need to, like, it's just not been need to, it's just not been a lesson of mine that you have to hold on and really nurture these things, which I am. There's a sadness that I haven't gained that ability, but there's also something gorgeous about being in the present moment with someone and just diving in and then letting them go and then sending them a text every now and then being like I'm thinking of you or do you want to meet for a coffee like that's as far as it goes with me I don't have these like I don't I just don't

have these people the one person I have is my sister. So do you is it partly because do you ever feel overwhelmed at the idea of having to constantly communicate? That's definitely a thing. Yeah. I'm really bad at my phone. Like I think, I think that feeds into it. I really, I'm just not that way inclined. Like I'm really bad at picking it up and text, or if someone does text me, I won't like read it and reply. I'll like look at it and put it away. I just don't, I don't know what it is. Um, so that's a tough one because again, a lot of the people that I would stay in touch with or meet don't live anywhere near me because all people are away doing a job in Morocco or whatever.

That's a big issue. I guess what it is, is I'm a perfectionist and so I hate the idea of being a really awful friend. So I'm like, right, well, I just won't commit to that and I'll be the person that they can meet for coffee every now and then, but I don't have to put that label on it because then I'm under no pressure to be this shining beacon of hope for friendship. Like I just won't put myself under that stress. Yeah. So insightful. Yeah. I think that there are many different metrics to friendship and because it's friendship, we don't accord it enough space in our mental lives to give it a language. So we do that with romantic love, but never really with platonic love. And so there's this assumption that there is one way to be, quote unquote, a good friend. And being good

is moralizing language. And actually it's about being true, I think, for me in friendship. And I'm like you. I think the most important metric I look for in my friends is generosity of spirit. So that idea that we cannot see each other for months or I hate talking on the phone, so we'll never have a phone call. I love that. But I will send a text seven months after I last spoke to you being like, I'm thinking of you. I love that. And when we do meet up, we can just hit that relational

depth really quickly. Yeah, it doesn't. There's no awkwardness. And I've always loved that. And I think because as well growing up, I kind of did this summer school thing. And so there would be people that I wouldn't see for a year, but the minute that you were in the same room with them, it's like no time had passed. And I always just thought, well, this is brilliant. Like that's not, yeah, it doesn't take away from my love for this person, but I'm just a very of the moment. What am I doing now? Okay, I'm here with you. Let's do this thing. I just, yeah, I just can't have that like continuous thing. But like you say, it doesn't necessarily equate to me loving that person

any less. Yeah. We can be friends by the way. We can be friends forever and never have to speak again. Yes. That's my gift to you. I love that. Honestly, there's this weird pressure of, I don't know where it's come from. I suppose it is just in our culture, yeah, of like keeping that up and keeping that communication up. But yeah, that's brilliant. But I wonder, also because of what you were saying about your parents' divorce and understanding that love still exists, even if you're not with someone all the time in a conventional way.

Can I ask how this plays out with romantic relationships? I mean, for me, I love love. I am a hopeless romantic. It's everything. But yeah, it goes the opposite direction. Again, I can see, as I'm saying these things out loud, I'm like, oh God, that's why I do that. I go 100% in. My person is my person. I adore being in love and I adore nurturing this thing. But I think that, alongside my work, my brain would explode if there's anything else, aside from my family. I adore my sister, but sometimes she'll let me go for six months and

she's like, I got you. It's fine. I know that you're doing this and this. But yeah, so romantic wise, I'm all in. It's everything to me. But at the same time, I have to really, really work on that idea of people can come and go. I think it's a part of life is that sometimes people are for you at that moment in time, but then you have to relinquish that and go, okay, well then it ran its course. But I'm very, very wholeheartedly into love. ALICE There's this line that keeps coming back to me from the first episode of A Thousand Blows, uttered by Mary Carr, that I can't get out of my head. And I know that she's talking about men, but it seems to me to be relevant in so many areas where she says, I am beyond men.

And there's something about that that feels so apt for this conversation that you kind of exist beyond what you are being told is appropriate. In terms of how to express your love as a friend or a romantic partner. Does that resonate with you? Really, really? This is great. This is like therapy. That's the biggest compliment you can say to me. Honestly, yeah, that's amazing. Oh my God, it's so true.

I think, yeah, it's kind of this weird belief that I've carried around of being an outsider. So I've witnessed the social norms, but always, thank goodness, felt so much on the outside that in a weird way, I've never really felt the pressure of not buying into it. And so going, okay, I understand that people say that you're supposed to have this solid group of friends or you're supposed to have these social wares and graces, but actually I've just never felt the need to abide by them because I've not felt in the thick of life in a weird way. It's such a weird thing to say out loud, but I've just kind of grown up with this outskirts outlook.

Yeah. And I don't want to be making an inelegant leap now, but how does that play out with your sexual identity? Yeah, it took me a really, really long time to finally get to the point where I was like, oh, I'm gay. But I think again, because I kind of grew up doing the social thing of going, okay, well, I'll have a boyfriend and I'll do this thing." And I never questioned it. Knowing who I was in my heart of hearts, in my soul, it took me a really long time to, I suppose, no one in my life had shown me that that was an option. So I just never applied it to myself. So it took a while to really go, oh, this is something that I can have. Which also kind of leans into the whole kind of people pleaser thing. And I kind of never really was ready to carve out that path for myself, even though I always now, looking

back, always knew that my relationships with men weren't satisfying in that whole hearted way that I wanted them to be. But yeah, it took me a while to get there and now I am there. I'm like, just so adamant about being vocal about it because hopefully it may offer someone else that just that little outlook that it can be for them because that's all I needed. Yes. And how did you, what age were you when you felt you had got there? Because you're still so young. It took me, honestly, I was, how old was I? 24, 25, before my first relationship with a woman. And yeah, as I say, it was mind blowing and it felt like I had come home. I was just like, wow, this is a part of who I am that

I'd never got to meet, which was just so crazy. And again, I wouldn't change it because it's really made me adore that part and really cherish it and really hope that I get to offer that to other women or men, whoever you are, just lean into your truth because there was something so monumental about that moment of going, whoa, like this is me and just embracing it and not applying anything else to it. I just think we all deserve that. Yeah. So I just want to take a moment. That was so beautifully put. It's like coming home. It really was. It's very moving. Oh, I love that.

Thank you for sharing that. No, not at all. So I wanted to ask you about Chloe in reference to this failure because I wrote a book about friendship and there is a chapter in that book about ghosting. And I quoted Chloe quite a lot, like that just that it's such an amazing show that I know it's got lots of attention, but I still think it's really underrated. And it's so about female friendship, parasocial relationships kind of played out on social media.

So that sense of illusion and what you're imagining and the devastation of being ghosted and then that being a kind of metaphorical death and then I'm not giving too much away, but it's followed by an actual death. And so anyway, I'm doing a very bad job of explaining why I was obsessed with it, but I was. And I wonder if it taught you anything about friendship playing that role. Ironically, I met Pippa Bennett Warner on that job who is, I would, she is one of my closest friends, but we never see each other. I met her on that job. So yeah, it opened my eyes, because I'd never been close enough to have the experience of someone friendship platonic wise ghost me in that sense. So I, it took

for that job for me to really understand those emotions and to really know the devastation that something as maybe minimal and flippant in someone's eyes can, can do for someone else. Um, I met Pip on that job and we still like, I've got a voice note from her. Again, I'm that person. She sent it to me maybe two weeks ago. I haven't played it because I'm just like, I will get back to you. But my brain just doesn't work that way. But she's the same. She's literally like thinking of you. But yeah, that was one of the reasons why I have such fond memories of that job was because we did that together and we found each other.

It's also a role that allowed you to be transgressive in so many ways. Just within the role, you're adopting different roles. And I mean, yeah, that was the start of my air and authority stand-up. So thank you for that. Thank you. start of my, my errand on to stand them. So thank you for that. Before we get on to your final failure, I read somewhere in an interview that, that you, your last best friend was in primary school and she broke up with you. Yeah. Like, well, she left, she left. Yeah. You've never gotten over it. I know. I never have. Amy Smith. She was my best friend. I know wherever she may be. Um, so we were like best So we were like besties. I've always been like

a one person type. That's just who I am. I can't be like the six friends type of gal. So I grew up being best friends with Amy Smith. She was the one. We first went to, we found this football club Crawley Wasps together and we went and she was the goalkeeper. I was sent a mid. We did everything Um, but then we went to different secondary schools and it just died out, which I think again is another thing of like, it was just a moment of understanding that you can live in someone's pocket and adore the pants off them, but then they can go and yeah, I had to let go of my best friend.

It feels like your characters are friends too. So that sort of obsessive nature that you have where you're like, I love this person. I'm a one person person. I need to understand everything about them. You apply to your characters. I do. I do. I fall in love with them. Yeah. And my girlfriend will attest to this at the minute. Like I just, the minute that anything comes into my sphere, I'm like, like the blinkers go on. I don't like at the minute she's like, what are we doing on Sunday? And I'm like, absolutely. I don't know. She's like, she's trying to broaden my social circle. Wait, are you embodying Mary Carr at the moment or the character in unicorn who's part of a throuple? I'm a bit, I'm a bit of everything at the moment or the character in Unicorn who's part of a throuple?

I'm a bit of everything at the minute. So I think that's why my day's off on Sundays. I'm like absolutely lying there on the sofa, just an absolute shell of anything. But yeah, the addiction and commitment to honing in on one person and wanting to do it justice and wanting to, it's the workaholic thing as well of just going, well, I can walk away from that knowing that I gave it everything I've got. And it's also something to do with, I don't know, being an artist, people are always going to have an opinion on something you did and you have to just accept it. But I can only accept it if I know

I gave it everything because then I'm like, okay, well then it just wasn't for them. Like, but that was my all. Um, but yeah, so I think when characters come into my life, I have to give it all my body and soul and heart and guts and blood and everything. Cause I'm like, this person has, for whatever reason, come into my life and I'm going to serve them as best I can because then you can let it go at the end of the job. So well expressed. Thank you. Not at all. Your final failure, we've touched on it a little, your final failure is big social gatherings. So you have said that you like being part of a team, whether that's football or on stage

or on set, but that doesn't translate to a big social gathering. No, I'm awful, awful at them. Even this weekend gone, we were supposed to go to something on Sunday and I was just like, I can't do it. I just have an immense amount of anxiety about being in those types of environments. I don of environments. I love one-on-one. That's my thing. I think because I just want to be with you in this moment and have this chat. I love really getting into the nitty gritty of what's going on in your life and then exploring something in my own. I just crave that kind of communication and you'd never get them in big social gatherings. It's very much just kind of like, how are you? What are you doing? It's just very surface and I

find it emotionally and physically so draining. I don't get to walk away from it with anything. I never feel. I'm always like, I never really got to speak to that person or whatever, like I just never feel like I gain anything from it. So I avoid it at all costs. It's really, really a problem. I think it sounds completely logical that you crave connection and the deepest connection you can have is one-on-one. But it also makes sense of why maybe you like being on stage or filming, because you are still doing your connection. Yeah. You are able to offer this connection to a broad audience of people without it being

surface and that's the difference. Yeah. Yeah. And it's not as exhausting. Yes. And that's the difference. Yeah, and it's not as exhausting. So then when you, and that's the dream in a way, like it's not why you do it, but hopefully if you've done your job correctly, people will watch this thing and they'll find like through the screen or through the stage,

they'll connect with this thing and you'll have offered them something, but I'm not as exhausted by the process. And then if someone wants to come up and chat, like in the supermarket about something then it's amazing because you're like, oh wow, like we've got this thing that you've offered and it's hit something. But yeah, to physically do it in a room, I just, I get overwhelmed by the prospect.

Do you think you would like being super, super famous? Like a sort of global face you're making is like you're about to throw up. No. Because I imagine that would be hell then given how important that connection is. Yeah. I think I'd have to lean in even more to like, I'd have to get better at my friendships and at carving out time of please, I'd just be that person who would invite people around or I'd get them to invite me around or go and meet up. I would just have to make it happen more because I feel there's something really... And the whole fame is a whole other subject that

I'm like, the whole thing baffles me and it makes me so uncomfortable because it's such an odd concept of people not knowing who you really are, but kind of feeling like they have the ability to place these things on you and go, oh, you're this person or you're this, it's just such an, it's just bizarre to me. But I think, yeah, if ever Yeah, if ever I did have to navigate that, I'd have to just get better at honing and nurturing friendships. So it's not, you wouldn't ever turn down a part because you were worried about the level of fame that will come with it? No, not again, I think I would just be interested purely in the part and if it's necessary and I'm completely, if it speaks to me, there's something weird that happens when you read a script and you're like,

I have to do this. It's one of my joys of the job is that weird aligning and that weird moment where you're like, this is mine. I am going to be a part of this thing. So I would never turn something down for fear of what it may mean in the future. If something feels right in the moment, I'm gonna jump on it. But I think, yeah, I would just have to... The thing is, what's wonderful is that the longer you're in this industry,

the more you meet people who are successful and you see them rocking it and you're like, oh, that's how you do that. And you just pick up little lessons along the way. And I, not like I've always loved her, but getting to see Olivia Coleman just absolutely smash it. She's smashing life. She's smashing career. Like she's just doing everything as it should be done in my eyes. Like she doesn't buy into any of the faff, but she loves her job enough to lean in. And I think that's all it is, is if you lean in, you do what you have to do, but ultimately you can still be a normal human being and be successful. You just have to really, really remain grounded.

And yeah, it's one of the great privileges of my life to watch her do it. And Stephen Graham, I guess, would be another one who navigates that really well. He is, I think, one of the most incredible people I've ever met in my life. He honestly, he's just, he's got heart of gold. He's the most generous spirit. Him and Hannah, his wife, who are, they're both the producers on A Thousand Blows. They're just two people who have entered my life and I'm like, wow, I don't know who I'd be without you now. They're the people that come in and just change things. Again, as you say, they

show you how to do it because he is so who he is the he's in the eye of the storm of this crazy incredible career. But nothing's changed about him like he's rooted in why he does it. And I think if you always come back to your why you'll be safe. And he kind of he's driven that home for me. Oh, Erin, it's been such a pleasure to talk to you because it almost sounds like Stephen and Hannah are your friends. I would call them my friends and even they would say I'm really bad at responding. But I kind of trust that. I kind of trust the bad responder because when you do respond,

it's really heartfelt. Oh yeah. Yes. Yeah. I can imagine a day when you are in your 80s and you're a Dame, you're like Maggie Smith. That's what I imagine for you. And that's what I feel for you. And when that happens, if this is still going, I want you to come back. Hell yeah. Okay. I mean, we've got to come back and we've got to do the trumpet podcast, but you know, and then, and then I'll come back. Yeah. And then we'll do that. Yeah. Oh my God, do you think you could still do like a little?

No, I tried. You tried. I've lost my ombresha. Oh no. The reason I stopped doing, I know, the reason I stopped doing the trumpet, I did it all through school. And then at university, I thought I wanted to carry on.

And I tried out for a jazz band, but I couldn't improvise because I found it so scary. Cause you're just like out there, everyone can hear when you split a note. And I just couldn't improvise because I found it so scary. Because you're just like out there, everyone can hear when you split a note. And I just couldn't do it. And I put the trumpet away and I never really picked it up again since. I think we should. We should rectify that. We should.

Did you have a Yamaha trumpet? No I didn't. But you like now are getting too niche. You're way more serious than that. No, never too niche. Never too niche. We've already hit trumpet. We can't get any more niche than that. Never too niche. We've already hit trumpet. We can't get any more niche than that. We're fine. Erin Daughty, fellow trumpeter. It's been such a pleasure to have you on How To Fail. Thank you for having me.

And you're sticking around because you're going to answer listener questions on Failing With Friends. So I'll see you over there. Please do follow How To Fail to get new episodes as they land on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music or wherever you get your podcasts. Please tell all your friends. This is an Elizabeth Day and Sony Music Entertainment original podcast. Thank you so much for listening.